My wife left me about a month ago. I don't know whether I should post a story here, first, but I have something I specifically want to talk about.
I don't know whether to pursue her or not. I'm so afraid of making the wrong decision. My dad and step mom are saying to sweep her off her feet with romance. The advice at this website seems centered on pulling back from her. I don't know what to do. My mom says to work on me and try to make my wife jealous, by making myself more attractive, which is more in line with what this site says, I believe, which is to make myself a person only an idiot wouldn't want back. I have been trying to pack on the pounds with muscle and a little fat, and I have been doing a good job. My weight is now back up to where it was before she broke my heart in late November / early December, when she initially went cold on me and started building a wall. I've been very suspicious that she fell for someone at work, and that I have been replaced. She has loved me and loved me so, so very much. She has always been very needy of my attention. For her to just all of a sudden cut me off the way she has done, I have to think she is getting the attention she needs elsewhere, even if it's just emotional attention (which I believe it would be, but do think it's possible she could have become physical, at least by 'accident'). The last time she pulled away from me, the first year we were dating, another guy was involved. 9 years later, a similar thing is happening, but we are now married (for exactly 7 years, when she started going cold on me right after our anniversary, in late November). Because I believe she has replaced me, though I have little evidence of it, it seems so counter-intuitive to think that pulling away from her is going to do anything more than help her get over me and be more into this other guy she might be with.
What should I do? And why? Thank you very much for any advice.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I don't know whether to pursue her or not.
NO - learn about what you are doing before you do it.
Start reading here - knowledge is Power.
And yes you are on moderation - be patient.
I see that in the Going Dark thread, people say that if your spouse complained of you being aloof, then going dark could be seen as more of the same. The primary thing I'm guilty of that she has complained about a ton is neglecting her, forgetting that it's my job to impress her, not understanding that just because I'm happy, that doesn't mean she is, even if she acts like it 90% of the time (at least in my eyes). So, I'm afraid that not pursuing her is doing the opposite of what she needs. Unfortunately, she doesn't often act very receptive to my pursuits. She has rejected most of my requests to do things with her, things she used to love, like going on walks, hikes, and canoeing, even though when she left, she said I would be able to date her during this time. What are the situations in which pulling back from her are not a good idea? At some point, it's got to be bad, right? If someone else is working their way into my spot, isn't me going dark like the last thing in the world that would help my situation?
It seems that distance can do one of two things, make them miss you or make them get over you. It seems like such a bargain. I can't help but wonder if there are better solutions out there. Can you share with me the rationale behind detaching or going dark? When my wife rarely ever initiates communication, I don't know whether that is a sign that I should go dark, or if she is holding back, letting me be the pursuer and the one rejected for once. She's always been a "I'll show you how it feels" person. Yesterday we saw each other at the park, where I got to visit with our dog, too. She was about 10 minutes late. Lateness is something that I was always terrible about, and something that she's always been good about. So, I think it's possible that a whole lot of what she does is just trying to make me see how it feels.
***My wife left me about a month ago. I don't know whether I should post a story here, first, but I have something I specifically want to talk about.***
Yes, please post your story/background here because it's hard to give any advice without knowing more about your situation.
Can you share with me the rationale behind detaching or going dark?
Well it is in DR.
Also read the pursuit and distance thread.
My dad and step mom are saying to sweep her off her feet with romance. The advice at this website seems centered on pulling back from her.
You are going to get varying opinions on this. Remember, only you know your wife and how she'll respond. What works for some definitely does not for others. Mine, for example, ran when I tried the DB techniques...but then again, her mind is much, much different than others.
My mom says to work on me and try to make my wife jealous, by making myself more attractive, which is more in line with what this site says, I believe, which is to make myself a person only an idiot wouldn't want back.
Solid advice. However, it must come with a word of warning - DO NOT make any changes to yourself with the idea of winning your wife back. That isn't what working on yourself if all about. That's a very dangerous trap.
You make your changes for your own self, not in the hopes of her saying "look at what I'm missing." If you change for another and it doesn't work out, then you'll be left with much resentment - towards her and YOU. No other way around it.
As have been said many times on here - you are on your own path now. You can make sure it has room for her, but that's just it. You walk it yourself, and you must own it yourself. Unfortunately, your wife is on her own path - and like all of the rest of us, that path has room for them only.
I wish that you weren't here and going through this sucktastic thing. I truly do. No one deserves this unless they were a total sh*thead. This place is great. Vent all you need, sir.
DO NOT make any changes to yourself with the idea of winning your wife back. That isn't what working on yourself if all about. That's a very dangerous trap.
You make your changes for your own self, not in the hopes of her saying "look at what I'm missing." If you change for another and it doesn't work out, then you'll be left with much resentment - towards her and YOU. No other way around it.
Not only this, but if you change 'for her', then it wont stick. Remember all of the times you fought with her and said "Ill do X better" and then 3 weeks later it was back to the same?
As for my opinion on your question I dont see how pursuing her will possibly work in your favor. You said youve already asked her out several times to no avail. Why would continuing to do the same thing yield different results?
My wife left me about a month ago. I don't know whether I should post a story here, first, but I have something I specifically want to talk about.
It's like asking for a prescription without you describing the symptoms. If we have some background information, it will help us know the best advice to give you.
What are the ages of you and wife? Has your W been in any previous long-term relationship, or are you the first one?
Did your W have a fairly normal/healthy childhood?
My dad and step mom are saying to sweep her off her feet with romance.
If your W has some other guy in her head, then the advice to sweep her off her feet with romance will not work at all. In fact, it will make matters worse. You see, whenever a married woman opens her heart to some other man, she shuts downs her heart to her husband. It's not like it might have been when you were dating before marriage. Not if she has brought a third party into the MR (either emotionally, physically, or just her imagination). So, I think you can mark that particular advice off the list.
My mom says to work on me and try to make my wife jealous, by making myself more attractive, which is more in line with what this site says, I believe, which is to make myself a person only an idiot wouldn't want back.
I mostly agree with your mom's advice. However, you realize that there are a lot of idiots in the world, right? Whenever a wife has another man in her head (or bed).....she pretty much resembles a fool/idiot. Her logic goes out the window, so can forget about trying to reason with her. This is not the same girl you married!
but do think it's possible she could have become physical, at least by 'accident'
Would you explain what you mean by accident?
Because I believe she has replaced me, though I have little evidence of it, it seems so counter-intuitive to think that pulling away from her is going to do anything more than help her get over me and be more into this other guy she might be with.
DBing
is counterintuitive, period.
The last time she pulled away from me, the first year we were dating, another guy was involved. 9 years later, a similar thing is happening, but we are now married (for exactly 7 years, when she started going cold on me right after our anniversary, in late November).
Briefly tell us about the other time. Why did she do it, and what caused her to change her mind and go back to you?
My advice is to forget about going dark. You need to read Divorce Remedy, first of all. The way I understand "going dark" is the absolutely
last option, where you basically fall off the planet....for all your W knows. There are too many other things to do, other than going dark. But this is what happens when someone jumps into things before they understand what they are really doing.
Anyway, keep posting and reading the links Cadet sent you.
Thanks for all of your responses. I have read each of them. I just got The Divorce Remedy in the mail yesterday. I am reading that. I am very interested in The Last Resort Technique - A Divorce Busting® Guide, but I want to know what exactly I am getting. Can I download any of the videos and immediately start watching or do I have to wait for all of it to get to me in a physical package? Thank you all for your help. I will get back to you on the things you brought up or asked me.
Hello, friends. What does it mean when my walk-away wife never initiates any contact with me? Prior to her going cold on me before she left, she was the primary initiator and craved my attention. We have been living apart since December 28th. She also ignores a whole lot of what I say to her over text, emails, letters that I gave her before she left, and Facebook messages. The last thing I said to her was "Sweet dreams, [slightly endearing petname]" in a text on Thursday night, right at her bedtime. I have heard no peep from her since. Since she left, I can hardly think of any contact that I've had with her that I didn't initiate. There have been times where she just showed up at the house and we hung out for a few hours, but other than that, I think I have initiated all contact. Some of our conversations have been very pleasant. My last encounter with her Tuesday, when she agreed to meet me at a park, with what used to be our dog, was an okay encounter, but tainted by her saying "well, this has been nice, I guess". And at one point, she was staring at mouth, and I said "Admiring my pearly whites?" and she said "You do have nice teeth. I can say that much.", which I took as her saying "but not much else", even though she used to compliment the hell out of me before she became bitter as she is now. It's not like I spam her with letters, emails, texts, etc. I did when she was still in the house, but this whole week, I saw her Tuesday, and sent her the "goodnight" message on Thursday night, and that's been it. Nothing on Monday, that I can recall.
Also, I have noticed that when I am around her, like on Tuesday, at the park, she stares at me like she is trying to figure something out, but as soon as I look at her, she looks away. Anyone know what that's about? I figured that she is studying my outward-appearing emotions, trying to figure out what I'm feeling. But I can only really guess at what she is doing. When I look at her and catch her eye for a moment doing that, the look that she is giving me isn't angry. It seems inquisitive, and if I may be so hopeful, perhaps even longing.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I'm going to try to provide a story of the breakdown of our marriage, without it being too long, because I could write 20 or 30 pages on it, probably. I apologize if this is too long. I can try to shorten it to a paragraph, if anyone wants me to.
I am 33. My wife turned 30 last March. We have no kids. We were married in Nov of 2009. Started dating in Feb of 2007. When she started shutting down on me, we had just finished our seventh year of marriage, on her 30th year of life, after she took a new job during the summer, that put her around a very different group of people. Early in our relationship, I noticed that I could not read her. I couldn't tell how happy she was. This came after she started distancing herself from me in late 2007; it completely blindsided me. I got her back around the beginning of 2008. She said there was another guy that she had some interest in, and they decided not to pursue it. She also gave me some reasons about why she was unhappy with me and an ultimatum of something I needed to fix. Because I did not at all see that almost-breakup coming, I vowed to forever get periodic feedback from her about how happy she is in the relationship, because I could never tell. That feedback would involve me asking her probably about once a month to tell me her overall happiness with the relationship. That helped me to know how hard I needed to work to keep her happy. You know, if someone's at a 4, you want to know that, so that you don't keep doing what you are doing, thinking all is fine. And if your partner's at a 10, you don't want to keep laying on the love, when you'd rather be doing other things.
I kept getting that periodic status report for many years and it seemed to be my Golden Tool for the relationship. Well, a few years ago -- I'd guess 4 or so -- I started to get very comfortable in the marriage. I started to forget how easy it was to lose her, how much life sucked before I found her, and how much it would suck again if I lost her. I also forgot the importance of asking her how happy she is. I have theories as to why I could never tell, but I don't know for sure. Now, in her bitter hatred of the walk-away wife, she says that I'm on the autism spectrum, whenever we discuss my inability to read her. That may be true, but I think the reasons were mostly because: 1. I'm a guy. We don't read females (or perhaps people in general) as well as other females do. 2. She puts on a happy face when she's not happy, and has admitted to this, and calls it "fake(ing) it until you make it". It's a great, "be positive", way to live, but it robs the spouse of important feedback. 3. She gives very positive feedback, like very sweet cards saying everything is fine, when things aren't fine. She gave me a sweet card for our anniversary in November this past year, where she hand-wrote in the card about how she loved me, how happy she was to have me in her life, and how she wanted to spend many more years growing with me. Somewhere between 1 and 2 weeks later, she went cold on me, and started building a wall of hate. During that 1 or 2 week period, nothing of any significance happened, that I'm aware of. She didn't catch me cheating on her or anything like that (which I have never done).
When I noticed that she seemed to be fake-smiling, whenever I entered the room, I started becoming concerned, and I sat down with her one night to approach her about it right after noticing her doing it, and she told me she wasn't sure she wanted to be with me any more. She said I was becoming weird as hell, absorbed in my own head. I didn't listen well and follow along well with things. She also brought up the recent weekend anniversary trip that we made, and complained that I had slept too late on the trip, and she was just sick of dealing with someone that wasn't a good traveller. She also mentioned my lack of desire to have friends and get out. She basically complained that she was sick of feeling like I was her ball and chain. Throughout our relationship, I have had big issues with travel anxiety and with a lacking desire to get out of the house in general, and with a lack of interest in socializing. I don't think I'd ever tell her "no" to much of anything, but I would often complain or act disinterested. So, these were the main issues at the time of the first bomb drop, that she complained about.
She spent the next few weeks becoming colder and more and more distant with me. It was like she was weaning me off of her. We still had some sex, but it was less frequent. She acted like she didn't care about anything in the house and was giving up. She wasn't cooking anymore. She wouldn't snuggle me much or show much affection. She was saying "I love you" less and less, and this girl used to say "I love you" almost too much at times (several times a day). Too much to me, anyway. (Now, I'd give anything to hear her say it unprompted and genuinely.) I don't think she would repeat it back to me at this point. I haven't told her I love her in weeks. She bought some CD's with songs about breaking up and hating men, and she would blast them in the house while I was around. "What kind of man loves like you?" and "Did I build a ship to wreck?" It killed me inside to hear this stuff. She was building a wall of hate. During this month or so (the month of December), I was writing her letters just about every day, averaging about 2 pages a piece, where I was pleading with her to stay and give me another chance, telling her about how I didn't understand how unhappy she was -- I didn't even know she was unhappy, telling her about my lack of appreciation and how I had become too comfortable in the marriage -- so on and so on. How I'd do so much better now, because I've been shaken awake by what she was doing. Nothing budged her hardly. She rarely wrote me back or responded to what I wrote her, unless it was just a few sentences of a response.
She left on December 28th. A few days later, she wrote me a long email, a massive list of 17 general things that she complained about: laziness about helping with chores; too much time on the computer (I was too into my hobbies; she says she suspected I was having a cyber-affair with someone (I wasn't), she complained about me looking at porn, which I did do some of, but in the past she always would just say "well, I know that all guys do it..." and that would be that); lack of life skills, like cooking; unreliability/lateness; she said I was scared of everything (I have issues with anxiety and depression); complained that I was sort of mean about her appearance in that I didn't show enough sexual interest in her (I showed a lot, but I can see why she would think it's lacking); said I was weak physically and mentally and whiny; she complained that I was spoiled and that it was her fault that she let me be so weak and whiny; she said I was "nickel and diming" her, which I think is kind of a made up complaint mostly (she seemed to only be referring to us agreeing that she do more chores in exchange for me paying a larger share of the bills (we agreed to that, I thought); complained that I didn't want her to do things that might form a wedge between us; I made easy things hard; she said I didn't want her to think much of herself, which in my opinion is another made up reason to be mad at me (I simply didn't like when she vocally complimented herself or responded to one of my compliments with, "mmmhmmm", like she saying "I know". It hurt my feelings.); said I wasn't interested in personal growth, which I think is kind of unfair; said I don't have friends and don't nurture relationships with family; continuously puts it back in my face the one time that she said I laughed when she was crying and begging me for something (I'm sure that my "laugh" was just a smirk; I probably just thought she seemed like she was overreacting to something, but I by no means wanted to hurt her feelings); she complained of lack of sex (we had sex pretty much once a week, usually on Sundays; so a little lacking, but not that bad; she has always said that I was good at sex and that it was good for the most part, just not often enough for her). I know that my looking at porn some during the week affected my desire to want to have sex more often, so I greatly regret doing that now, but hindsight is 20/20, and besides, it was just one of her many complaints. I don't think it was a core issue. The point of me posting all of these complaints for you is to show you how she only gave a few initial reasons, mostly about me not being outgoing, adventurous, and fun enough, and then later morphed into all of this stuff (an email that was 4 pages long, single-spaced, when pasted to a word processor). That told me that she had done a lot of looking for things about me to hate to help her build up her wall of hate. I will admit, though, that most of these complaints are valid. It's just interesting that initially her reasons were about me not being fun enough.
I think the core issues were that I had gotten too comfortable in the marriage, I couldn't read her, I was inexperienced and not knowledgeable in how to please a woman (argued with her instead of trying to understand her feelings and empathize, forgot (or never really knew) how important romance and intimacy is to a woman, etc.). All of these problems that I'm aware of, and that she is aware of, are fixable. They just require me putting in a lot more effort, which now that I have been separated from her for about 6 weeks, I am extremely motivated to do everything I can to fix the marriage. I was extremely motivated as soon as she said she wasn't sure she wanted to be with me, but now I'm even more motivated. Ever since she first told me she wasn't sure she wanted to stay with me (I think that was late November), I have done nothing but think about her and how to fix things. I completely stopped working on my hobbies that I was too into before -- have had no desire to work on them. I have done what I have
had to do, like keep my employer happy, but other than that, I've been thinking about her, reading about fixing the marriage, watching videos, trying to do anything I could think to do to change her mind, including working on me, and making long overdue repairs to the house.
Update to the present: I have gradually cut out the letters, since early January, probably, and have lessened and lessened my contact with her. At the end of January, she moved just about all of her stuff out of the house, and into a small house that she is renting. I try to give her space now. And I constantly wrestle with whether to contact her. Because one of her main complaints was me being neglectful of her, I am terrified of using the Last Resort Technique. I saw where one person here, who was also guilty of being neglectful with their wife, was able to bring their wife back, after using the LRT. (Post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2705013#Post2705013) So that has given me a little confidence in using it, but I'm still scared.
My wife rarely ever makes contact with me. Last week she asked if I wanted her and our dog to come visit on Sunday. I agreed. I found the visit to be very platonic, disappointing, and seemed focused on her getting more of her stuff from the house. She also called me on Tuesday night to ask me how I wanted to receive the separation papers, that she had told me, on Sunday night, were in the works. That conversation, like many others that go into the realm of relationship talk, slowly ended in a firestorm of rage on her side. She was telling me, "I love you", but in a mean, teasing kind of way at the end of the conversation, in a way that she clearly didn't mean. She rarely starts off mean, but it snowballs in an argument. I had argued that she was rushing things, not giving herself time to change her mind. After all, look at how fast she went from giving me an anniversary card that basically said "everything's good" to going stone cold on me a week or two later. She had only moved out about 5 weeks prior to pursuing official separation arrangements. And separation is going to cost her $4,000. How likely is she going to want to undo it later? It would take a whole lot of desire to get back with me to want to undo that. She basically said, "yeah, but if we love each other and want to get back together, then it will be worth it." I see it as rushing to be able to date the guy that I suspect she is seeing, and rushing to make it harder for her to ever want to change her mind. I have felt the whole time like she has been fighting a large part of herself that wants to stay with me, and trying to beat that part of herself down and kill it, before it can take her back over.
I have long suspected, ever since she first dropped a bomb in late November, that she had become interested in a guy at work. I still don't know for sure at this point whether she is seeing someone else, but I'm still very, very suspicious that she is. As much as that girl loved me, and as much as I love her (though apparently I was very bad at showing it, which I understand), and as much as she needed me all the time, needed my attention, affection, and so on, I can't imagine how she could go cold turkey on me, without having someone else to take my place.
Hopefully in this long post, I have answered most people's questions. I am sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner. I have been busy with work, reading stuff like Divorce Remedy, other posts on this site, talking to family and friends, watching the Last Resort Technique video series (which I found very good), and so on.
I have struggled the most with not arguing with my wife -- not trying to defend myself, especially. I have noticed that every time we get into an argument, it leads to an ultimate explosion of hate and tirades of complaints out of her, and seems to result in her wall becoming much thicker. When she attacks me, I need to just say "I'm very sorry you have felt that way" and do my best to keep her out of a tirade and off the subject. I now struggle over whether or not I should pursue her and how much. It seemed that when I was calling her a week or two ago at the end of every night, and sticking to non-relationship talk, that things seemed to be getting better. She has/had always had a strong desire for my attention and has continuously complained of a lacking in my attention. So, I have thought that maybe me contacting her every night for a short friendly chat was a good thing. We seemed to get along well when we were doing that. And I know that the most important rule is probably to do what seems to work, and not do what seems to not work. But I'm just so afraid that what I should be doing is detaching. The longest I've gone without contacting her (I also made myself invisible online) was four days, I believe, back in January. She didn't contact me throughout that time, I don't think, and acted unphased by it. Maybe it wasn't long enough. I'm just so torn between reaching out to her (in small very friendly doses) or detaching. I don't want to make the wrong choice and hurt my situation with her even more. I'm expecting separation papers any day. So, it's already in a very bad situation. What should I do?
I want to also point out that during the summer, we planned to start trying to have kids in October. When October rolled around, she brought up kids at some point, and I kind of gave my usual, "yeah, I'm still scared of such and such", but I didn't say "no". In late November, she was going cold. She has not given kids as the reason why. But many, including myself, have wondered.
It's so strange that she so recently was ready to have kids with me, yet she was so unhappy that she needed to leave a few months later? I had probably gotten a little slacker in being a good husband during this time, but hadn't done anything major, like cheating. She's the one that has made a sudden transformation -- a sudden decision.
She gave no warnings that she was thinking about leaving me or nearing the end of her rope -- no ultimatums. She would complain about things from time to time, in a very reasonable and loving manner, but I just had trouble "getting it" -- understanding how unhappy she was and how much she needed me to change.
W and MIL just came. I was finishing my workout when they came. W was very quiet and angry acting. MIL acted normal, and a little somber. W got what we think are all of her things from the garage, and hopefully from the rest of the house. I hate watching her take things from the house. I hope we are done with that. MIL keeps saying that she is staying out of it. Some how I feel like Miss [MIL] feels sorry for me and thinks W is being foolish, but it's just a very slight feeling about that that I have. I could be wrong. She won't say much. W said I didn't appreciate all the things she left in the house. She wouldn't tell me why at first. She finally told me that it was because I fussed about her wanting $40,000 of our house's equity, while only wanting to give me $1,800 for what I put into our old house, that she now rents out (that house is in her and her mom's name). After that, she started taking more things out of the house that she previously intended to leave for me, like the mirrors in the foyer area. Hopefully now she has gotten all of her stuff out of the house. I just let her take what she wanted, that was hers, and didn't put up a fight, except on a rug that she had said she was leaving me as part of an exchange for furniture I agreed to let her have, since I don't want her to run me through the ringer, if she can, and because I don't want to fuel her anger. She is a basket of emotions. Right before she left, I saw a glimpse of the W that I love. She turned around and looked at me with a sad face and motioned for a hug. I said "you want a hug?" She said "kind of", or "yes". I can't remember. I gave her a good hug. It was long. She hugged me tightly. She didn't push me off. I whispered to her that I was sorry, and I think she said she was too. I couldn't really hear her. Then they left.
I thought about asking her for the garage door opener, but I'm trying not to make her mad at all, because she might be able to really run me through the ringer, if she goes through with the separation agreement, and asks for what the law might give her. There is a difference between what is lawful and what is fair. I told W, shortly before they left, before the nice hug, that we could sit down and discuss what's fair. MIL said we shouldn't do that. She didn't want us to get upset. I told her that's probably a good idea, and I'm glad she said that. After they left, I sent MIL a text message telling her that I was so sorry for all of the trouble.
This is not how this story is supposed to go.
I'm so glad I have you folks to talk to.
Just remember that blood is thicker than water.
Your MIL is always going to side with her daughter when the
chips are down
Yeah, thanks for the reminder. But it gives me some hope in thinking that maybe she thinks what her daughter is doing is wrong/stupid. Maybe she has tried a little to talk sense into W. I know that I could never count on my in-laws to openly side with me, especially on large things, because they need W in their lives. Some of them, though, really don't mind speaking their mind at the cost of their relationship with their family. So, some might would side with me, especially the religious father, but he is divorced from her mom. So, he probably doesn't have much room to preach, unless he made it clear that he was not innocent and had made mistakes in his life, and didn't want her to fall in the same traps.
Does anyone know a fast way to get all of someone's pictures off of Facebook? The only way I see to do it is by opening up each picture one by one and saving it manually, and then you don't get their captions and stuff with it, either. I'm so afraid my wife is going to start deleting pictures off of Facebook soon. Do you guys go through this? Fear that she is going to destroy things that were dear to us both, like pictures? She recently quit wearing her diamond, and is only wearing the wedding band (at least in front of me). I fear that she has already sold the diamond, to pay for the separation, but I doubt she has. But who knows? She is so crazy right now. She is the alien that everyone talks about.
Has your W been in any previous long-term relationship, or are you the first one?
She had a few boyfriends, one that lasted like 2 or 3 years, I think, before me. I got with her right before she turned 21.
Did your W have a fairly normal/healthy childhood?
As far as I know. She wasn't abused, that she can remember. Her father was apparently very aloof, and her parents divorced when she was like 9 or something. She still barely talks to him and sees him. Her parents have a cat and dog relationship now. Her brother has always had emotional/development problems and has been very taxing on the family.
My dad and step mom are saying to sweep her off her feet with romance.
If your W has some other guy in her head, then the advice to sweep her off her feet with romance will not work at all. In fact, it will make matters worse. You see, whenever a married woman opens her heart to some other man, she shuts downs her heart to her husband. It's not like it might have been when you were dating before marriage. Not if she has brought a third party into the MR (either emotionally, physically, or just her imagination). So, I think you can mark that particular advice off the list.
I don't, unfortunately, yet know whether there is another man. I just have very strong suspicions. She denies that I'm competing with anyone else for her affection, except with our/her dog, she says. I do think that at the very least, the other man could be imaginative. She has said that she began looking around and seeing what other couples have, seeing how other men treated her, and began to wonder whether she could have that. And there is one married guy in particular that she has spoken very fondly of. He has kids, as well. Apparently his wife is terrible, according to my wife and what she says her coworkers say. I have other reasons to believe my wife is into this guy.
but do think it's possible she could have become physical, at least by 'accident'
Would you explain what you mean by accident?
By 'accident', I mean having a sexual encounter with someone without setting out to, like doing it in the moment -- not premeditated.
My advice is to forget about going dark. You need to read Divorce Remedy, first of all. The way I understand "going dark" is the absolutely last option, where you basically fall off the planet....for all your W knows. There are too many other things to do, other than going dark. But this is what happens when someone jumps into things before they understand what they are really doing.
I get detaching and going dark confused. I need to review the difference. I am planning to now do a light version of going dark, which might just be a strong detachment. I won't ignore her if she contacts me (I may a little, just to play hard to get), but I won't initiate contact or pursue her. And I won't be quick to come to her needs if I were to be so fortunate as to have her react by pursuing me. Because I don't want to fall into a distance/pursuit trap. I may give in to her the first time, though, just to test the waters to see whether she will "slam dunk" me or whatever and distance herself again.
I have been worried that because she considered me a neglectful husband, that detaching would just be more of the same, but because I initially spent weeks pursuing the hell out of her, after the bomb drop, with little positive result, and because my pursuits sometimes result in argument fights that end in a mushroom cloud of rage out of her, I figure I am just better off giving her tons of space and not letting on that I still want her. It's very hard for me to not defend myself when she attacks. And I have found that the distance between us seems to multiply after fights, probably because her anger fuels her wall of hate. Where will she get fuel for her hate, if I'm not giving it to her? And when her hate subsides, how will she handle the feelings that remain? Will they be feelings that benefit me? The last time I saw her, I think I was pretty much exactly the way I needed to be -- cool, calm, collected, kind, and compassionate. It ended with a fantastic hug and glimpse of the sweet wife trapped inside the demon. I will leave her with that last taste in her mouth for a while.
W stopped by today to get a piece of mail that I told her she had that had "urgent" kind of notices on it. We talked for about 20-25 minutes, I would guess. It was the W that I knew and loved. She was just nice acting and sweet, but not like "I want you back" sweet, I don't think. Just sweet. She had just came from church. She said she went to the one near here that we used to go to. I told her that I had thought about going by myself, but didn't. We made good small talk, and I think I continued to act the way that I needed to act, like I was content and moving on with or without her, even though I'd been upset before, and after, she was here. Small talk was very pleasant. I can't remember whether she asked anything about me, but she talked about what she had been doing. She initiated the departure, but I didn't try to hold her back and avoided acting disappointed. She again motioned for a hug today. I stood on a lower step so that I could give her a good hug. I gave her a nice one and rubbed her back some. I didn't try to kiss her head, nor did I yesterday. I let go as soon as she started to. I'm really supposed to probably initiate ending of contact, but it's so hard to be the first to end something that you wish you could spend the entire day doing. It turned out that the mail was very unimportant, and she didn't think it would be very important. So, it makes me wonder how much she was here to see me versus to get the mail.
She left and came back and called me. Said she noticed her right mirror was missing. We went walking down the street looking for it, and couldn't find it. She said earlier that she thought she had hit something. We had figured she just ran over a toy in the street or something. We didn't find the mirror. I looked to see if it was stuck under her car. Didn't see it. She wiped dirt and grass off of the back of my shirt when I stood up. I noticed she had a pack of cigarettes in the back of her car. Over the years that I have known her, she smokes from time to time when she is stressed. She also smokes when she is being social sometimes, but she wouldn't have a whole pack if that was the case -- she would bum one off of someone. So, that's just more evidence that she is torn up by all of this.
She left and called me again to tell me she had stopped at a neighbor's house to ask if they had seen her mirror, and they had, and gave it to her. I don't know why they would pick the mirror up rather than let the person come back and notice it on the ground, but anyway. There was no damage to the mail box and the only damage to her mirror appeared to be little brackets, that the dealership would probably have to replace for her. She said she just needed someone to pop it back on for her probably, and was quick to follow that with, "and I know some guys at work that would love to work on something like that". I figured that the "guys" were probably POM. She was very quick to want to get off the phone after that. I never tried to offer to fix it for her. But I think she was clearly scared that I would. That's fine. Improvements don't usually happen in leaps and bounds. It's usually very gradual, from what I have read here. The fact that she came, acted like her old self (other than not acting like she's mine), left on perfectly good terms, wanted another hug today -- I think that's improvement. I can't expect big improvements. I have to take what I can get and celebrate them. It hurts when she leaves, though, every time I see her.
Do you guys think my situation is hopeless, insofar as getting her back?
Do you guys think my situation is hopeless, insofar as getting her back?
Its only hopeless when you decide it is.
I don't believe it's hopeless, because I believe my wife has a ton of love for me, and because we get along very well together. I'm just wondering whether people aren't responding anymore because they think it's hopeless.
I don't believe it's hopeless, because I believe my wife has a ton of love for me, and because we get along very well together. I'm just wondering whether people aren't responding anymore because they think it's hopeless.
I dont think so.
Here is a tip
How to get more people to POST on my thread?
To get more replies my suggestion is to ask questions.
Put you post down in a readable fashion. (not one big block of type- ie hit carriage return frequently).
KISS = Keep it simple stupid
Post on other peoples threads and give them support.
You may not think you are qualified but you will be surprised that you may know something
or have some knowledge of something that others know nothing about.
Personally thank each poster that does post on your thread or ask them a follow up question.
Keep posting! - (Most important part)
I don't believe it's hopeless, because I believe my wife has a ton of love for me, and because we get along very well together. I'm just wondering whether people aren't responding anymore because they think it's hopeless.
I don't think its that, Wsh. Just keep posting. There is only one person who has that answer, and she is on her road. Just make sure you keep your hand open and don't squeeze the butterfly.
Thanks for the responses, guys (I think you are both guys?).
There is only one person who has that answer, and she is on her road. Just make sure you keep your hand open and don't squeeze the butterfly.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. Just standing back, holding my hand open, waiting for the butterfly to land. I will not try to grasp at it or trap it. I may even at times lower my hand, in hopes that she will worry whether it will extend out to her again.
I'm amazed by the level of intelligence and quality of advice on this forum. I have been reading around here a lot. People are going through such similar things that I am, that it doesn't really matter whether I get responses here, because a lot of what is said in one thread would apply to me, too.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. Just standing back, holding my hand open, waiting for the butterfly to land. I will not try to grasp at it or trap it. I may even at times lower my hand, in hopes that she will worry whether it will extend out to her again.
It's not an easy thing to do. But, in a sense, you just need to let the butterfly go. It will fly away and if it chooses to come back on its own, it will...if not, then there is your answer. The butterfly analogy is one of the best I've heard in a long, long time.
The thing is, you can't do things in hopes that she will wonder or make her way back to your road. She is on her own road that only has room for her. What you can do, is work on yourself and be the best Wsh you can be. For you. No one else. If she chooses to walk your road again, then great. If not, well, then you by then you will be standing on your own feet without wobbly knees. But this time is for you. Period.
The thing is, you can't do things in hopes that she will wonder or make her way back to your road. She is on her own road that only has room for her. What you can do, is work on yourself and be the best Wsh you can be. For you. No one else.
Yeah, I was talking about not being too available to her, though, like not answering the phone every time she calls. And not playing a pursue/distance game, if she tries to do that.
I appreciate your advice. It's very profound and insightful.
I was talking about not being too available to her, though, like not answering the phone every time she calls. And not playing a pursue/distance game, if she tries to do that.
There is a fine line with that. Doing it too much can also have negative effects. Just be you. And own your road.
I was talking about not being too available to her, though, like not answering the phone every time she calls. And not playing a pursue/distance game, if she tries to do that.
There is a fine line with that. Doing it too much can also have negative effects. Just be you. And own your road.
Yeah. Thanks for the reminder. Lately, it seems to be working, keeping my distance. Being distant was one of her main complaints, but I have chased the hell out of her since she first said she wasn't sure she wanted to be with me. I basically did all of the typical things that the DB literature says people do. So, she can't feel like I'm acting "more of the same". But you are so right that I have to be careful. I'm just monitoring my results. I guess the most important rule of all to follow is to do whatever gets results, and not what doesn't.
I guess the most important rule of all to follow is to do whatever gets results, and not what doesn't.
The single most important thing to remember is that you are making any changes or whatever for you and you only. It seems that what you are doing it working, so keep it up. Funny how earlier she had complained you were distant, and now that is working your favor. Odd how that works.
The single most important thing to remember is that you are making any changes or whatever for you and you only. It seems that what you are doing it working, so keep it up. Funny how earlier she had complained you were distant, and now that is working your favor. Odd how that works.
So making changes for both me and her isn't good? I'm still trying to understand this mentality. I'm also still reading DR. If I understand correctly, things that I do for
her might not stick, if she comes back, because if I get her back, I will have reached my goal, and won't perhaps feel as much motivation to keep doing whatever it is. Is that right?
So making changes for both me and her isn't good? I'm still trying to understand this mentality. I'm also still reading DR. If I understand correctly, things that I do for her might not stick, if she comes back, because if I get her back, I will have reached my goal, and won't perhaps feel as much motivation to keep doing whatever it is. Is that right?
I think you misunderstood. You make the changes within yourself for YOU and you only. Never make them on the hopes of winning someone back.
Think about this - let's say someone in our situation works very hard and makes all the changes that they think will bring the person back - only that it doesn't. So, all they are left with is the bitterness/anger towards the ex and within because they feel all of it was for naught. And that is no reason to do it.
I think you misunderstood. You make the changes within yourself for YOU and you only. Never make them on the hopes of winning someone back.
Think about this - let's say someone in our situation works very hard and makes all the changes that they think will bring the person back - only that it doesn't. So, all they are left with is the bitterness/anger towards the ex and within because they feel all of it was for naught. And that is no reason to do it.
I can see that, but if you made the changes for both of you, then you can still be happy you did it, right? Not trying to argue with the philosophy. Just trying to understand.
Sure. As long as you are doing them for you and remember that she is secondary for them. If she recognizes and decides to come back, then that's awesome. If she doesn't, then you'll still be in a better place. You just don't want to do things and place hope on them winning her back, because if she doesn't come back...
You are on the right track and seem to have your head on straight. Good on ya!
The idea to save yourself before you can save your M/R is similar to the instructions you hear on a plane before the flight departs. You can't help anyone else if you run out of oxygen.
Your objective should be to get to your happy place (GAL activities) and make changes within yourself to improve your relationship skills and gain new ones. This will serve you well with all of your relationships(at work/family/friends).
Then you will be better prepared for a new relationship with your W, or a new relationship altogether. You have a tremendous opportunity, so use your time wisely. If we don't address our issues, they are portable. They will hang on until we take care of them. Same goes for any WAS. That's one of the reasons piecing is so difficult.
Here's something else to ponder. When you gauge/temp check your WAS, it generates expectations and keeps you on the emotional roller coaster. We hang onto every word and action looking for a glimmer of hope. Keep your expectations at -0-. That will be a significant help.
Here's something else to ponder. When you gauge/temp check your WAS, it generates expectations and keeps you on the emotional roller coaster. We hang onto every word and action looking for a glimmer of hope. Keep your expectations at -0-. That will be a significant help.
Thanks for all the advice, LITB. Well put. I wanted to comment on this ^^^. My understanding from reading DR, is that you should be looking for small improvements to celebrate. It keeps you motivated to continue fighting for the marriage, when you see improvements, and it makes you patient, because you feel like your patience is being rewarded with the small improvements.
If you are detached, then I think you will be able to do it without being on a roller coaster ride.
Personally, when the thoughts of my W consumed me, it slowed me down. That being said, this is all counter-intuitive. It takes practice.
It keeps you motivated to continue fighting for the marriage, when you see improvements, and it makes you patient, because you feel like your patience is being rewarded with the small improvements
Be careful when looking for those small improvements. What I thought were small improvements in my ex were actually her getting more comfortable in what she thought was a friendship.
Be careful when looking for those small improvements. What I thought were small improvements in my ex were actually her getting more comfortable in what she thought was a friendship.
I have been afraid of that. You think my wife might just see me as a friend?
I have been afraid of that. You think my wife might just see me as a friend?
I can't answer that for you. The only person who can is her. If she's becoming more friendly, etc, without anything else, then it's entirely possible. My ex did that - what I thought were improvements: talking, laughing, touching, etc...anything that I perceived as small steps were ore than likely nothing more than her becoming comfortable within herself and the situation and leading to the dreaded friendzone.
I can't answer that for you. The only person who can is her. If she's becoming more friendly, etc, without anything else, then it's entirely possible. My ex did that - what I thought were improvements: talking, laughing, touching, etc...anything that I perceived as small steps were ore than likely nothing more than her becoming comfortable within herself and the situation and leading to the dreaded friendzone.
Man, I never thought in a million years, during all those years with her that I could be friendzoned by her. What do I do? Just keep doing what I'm doing and hope for the best? Should I pursue her any?
Man, I never thought in a million years, during all those years with her that I could be friendzoned by her. What do I do? Just keep doing what I'm doing and hope for the best? Should I pursue her any?
It's entirely possible that she is, but its also possible that she isn't. However, given the fact that she is involved in an affair tells me that she is friendzoning you.
Just keep working on yourself. That's all you can do. I'll repeat the butterfly analogy again - If you squeeze the butterfly to tightly, it kills it. So, you must open your hand. The butterfly will fly away. What you must do, if you so choose, is keep your hand open in case it ever decides to alight again. If she does, great. If not, then you have your answer.
Honestly, most don't and you need to be prepared for that. You have to remember that she is on her own road and it only has room for her, not you. You most certainly can keep room on your road for her, but just know she may never travel it again. This is your road and its lined with gold. Own it.
And no, never pursue. Never.
Wsh,
When we all arrive at this community, we are hurting and we want to wake up from the nightmare we are experiencing to rid ourselves of the pain. More often than not, we discover that this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Take a deep breath and slow down. Unfortunately the only way to the other side of this he1l is through it. There are no shortcuts to speed up the process. Slow is fast and fast is slow. When we slow down and pay attention to the details, it helps speed up the process. When we rush, we skip details that we have to come back to later.
Work on detaching. You can do a search on livestrong developing detachment if you haven't already. I think there is a misconception that it means to give up. It doesn't.
One of the most important things you need to do, is keep busy with GAL activities.
I found Journaling to be very helpful to me.
Of course always keep in mind when interacting with your W, "is what I am about to say/do gonna get me closer or further away from my goal?"
One day at a time. Sometimes even one minute at a time.
It's entirely possible that she is, but its also possible that she isn't. However, given the fact that she is involved in an affair tells me that she is friendzoning you.
You think she's having an affair? I've strongly suspected it, but I have not yet found conclusive evidence.
Work on detaching. You can do a search on livestrong developing detachment if you haven't already. I think there is a misconception that it means to give up. It doesn't.
It does kind of seem like giving up. I searched for that article and read it. I found some of it hard to understand, but I'll keep working on understanding detachment.
One of the most important things you need to do, is keep busy with GAL activities.
I found Journaling to be very helpful to me.
Yeah, ever since this all started, for the first time in my life, I have found writing to be extremely helpful in helping me get out my pain. Initially, this manifested in all the letters I wrote to her during that first month or so, mostly while she was still in the house. I didn't give all of them to her. Some I deemed too whiny. Now, my letters are sent to my parents in email. I also vent here in this thread.
Of course always keep in mind when interacting with your W, "is what I am about to say/do gonna get me closer or further away from my goal?"
Yeah, it's a struggle, especially when I'm emotional. Sometimes I have wanted to contact her so badly to complain or whine. So many times in the past, when I did, it just resulted in her blowing up and building a bigger wall.
I didn't say anything to her on Valentine's Day, and she said nothing to me. I don't know whether that was a mistake on my part, but I believe I've read that it would be pursuing. Is initiating contact always a form of pursuit that I should avoid?
She put up a new profile picture on Facebook last night, that is super cute. I don't think she had changed it previously for at least a month. I'd love to think that she changed it to try to get me to pursue her, to make her feel wanted, but I know that there's no reason to think she did it for me. But she may have been feeling down, since she was spending Valentine's Day alone, and may have wanted to see all the likes and hear all the compliments.
I hate how she did all of this. The way she always kept acting like things were fine between us, up to right before the wall came up and the bitterness started. The way she wrote me an anniversary card that basically said "everything's great; so glad I have you", a week or two before she went cold. The way she never gave me a warning, never told me she was thinking about leaving me. Never told me she was nearing the end of her rope. No ultimatums. (She says she doesn't believe in them, but gave me one back in winter 07/08, that dramatically caused me to change my life for the positive.) And how she refused to give me a second chance, saying that all the times she complained to me were second chances. But I never "got" her complaints. Never got that she was unhappy, because she didn't wear her heart on her sleeve. She appeared to get over things very quickly, when in actuality, she was apparently just storing away resentment. I just feel so f-ing cheated in this. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know she was unhappy. I thought her complaints were much more minor, perhaps more mood-based, or coinciding with having a bad day. I didn't know they were so serious. She never sat me down and told me, "these are things I have to have, to stay in this relationship with you".
Any idea why she would end it like this? When I asked her why she never told me she was thinking about leaving me, she said that she never thought about leaving me -- that the thought just popped into her head from time to time, that she never actively thought about it. Apparently she just kind of had an epiphany, if I am to believe her. Now, that I am here and can look back, I can see signs of her thinking about leaving me -- the fact that she didn't work on gifts at all for my family for Christmas this year, though she always had in the past (and usually started in the early fall), and the fact that she seemed to quit working on her garden in the early fall, though she keeps a year-round garden (even though it takes a lot less work in the cooler months). When asked about this, she said she was just depressed about her Granny's health going way down. Which is another thing I haven't mentioned to any of you yet, but I have thought about a lot. Her Granny has been like a second mom to her, that lived with her her whole life, until my wife left the house she grew up in. Her Granny is 95 years old, and her health started going down badly last May. Right before my wife went cold on me, her Granny's health took another dip, and many people were now talking like they expected she'd live only another 3 or 4 months. I have wondered how much her Granny appearing to be dying has played a role in all of this.
You think she's having an affair? I've strongly suspected it, but I have not yet found conclusive evidence.
Crap, I think I crossed threads. Who knows.
I hate how she did all of this. The way she always kept acting like things were fine between us, up to right before the wall came up and the bitterness started. The way she wrote me an anniversary card that basically said "everything's great; so glad I have you", a week or two before she went cold. The way she never gave me a warning, never told me she was thinking about leaving me. Never told me she was nearing the end of her rope. No ultimatums. (She says she doesn't believe in them, but gave me one back in winter 07/08, that dramatically caused me to change my life for the positive.) And how she refused to give me a second chance, saying that all the times she complained to me were second chances. But I never "got" her complaints. Never got that she was unhappy, because she didn't wear her heart on her sleeve. She appeared to get over things very quickly, when in actuality, she was apparently just storing away resentment. I just feel so f-ing cheated in this. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know she was unhappy. I thought her complaints were much more minor, perhaps more mood-based, or coinciding with having a bad day. I didn't know they were so serious. She never sat me down and told me, "these are things I have to have, to stay in this relationship with you".
Sounds so much like mine. I never had an idea. Up until a a couple months or so before when her sister was going through her divorce, she said "I don't care how bad things get, we will never get a divorce." And, just like that, she drops the bomb. When I happened to see the texts between her and her sister and the sister hammering her...and the ex eventually saying "I never knew I was so sad." Think about that one...
Any idea why she would end it like this? When I asked her why she never told me she was thinking about leaving me, she said that she never thought about leaving me -- that the thought just popped into her head from time to time, that she never actively thought about it. Apparently she just kind of had an epiphany, if I am to believe her. Now, that I am here and can look back, I can see signs of her thinking about leaving me -- the fact that she didn't work on gifts at all for my family for Christmas this year, though she always had in the past (and usually started in the early fall), and the fact that she seemed to quit working on her garden in the early fall, though she keeps a year-round garden (even though it takes a lot less work in the cooler months). When asked about this, she said she was just depressed about her Granny's health going way down. Which is another thing I haven't mentioned to any of you yet, but I have thought about a lot. Her Granny has been like a second mom to her, that lived with her her whole life, until my wife left the house she grew up in. Her Granny is 95 years old, and her health started going down badly last May. Right before my wife went cold on me, her Granny's health took another dip, and many people were now talking like they expected she'd live only another 3 or 4 months. I have wondered how much her Granny appearing to be dying has played a role in all of this.
I'm afraid that's an answer you may never get. But one thing I can tell you is that asking for divorce IS NOT an instantaneous decision and its been planned for quite some time. I doubt her Grandmother's health had anything to do with it...if things were great, she'd have really leaned on you.
I'm afraid that's an answer you may never get. But one thing I can tell you is that asking for divorce IS NOT an instantaneous decision and its been planned for quite some time. I doubt her Grandmother's health had anything to do with it...if things were great, she'd have really leaned on you.
So, if she's been planning to break up with me, why do you think she'd lie and say she hasn't been planning it?
So, if she's been planning to break up with me, why do you think she'd lie and say she hasn't been planning it?
I do. The same has been said over and over and over in this very forum. Do you think a life-changing choice such as a divorce was an over night decision?
I do. The same has been said over and over and over in this very forum. Do you think a life-changing choice such as a divorce was an over night decision?
I wouldn't think so, but why wouldn't she tell me she was thinking about it, at the time? And why would she now lie and say that she wasn't thinking about it?
I wouldn't think so, but why wouldn't she tell me she was thinking about it, at the time? And why would she now lie and say that she wasn't thinking about it?
I'll give you what mine did, which pretty much follows the examples of others found here. Mine spent time talking to friends and family - I know this because of the hidden ally I have in her camp (things come out). Mine researched it. Looked it up...joined forums (the bitter divorce ones). When she dropped the bomb, she had her ducks in a row - or so she thought...she was going on what her family/friends told her. At any rate, the point is that she planned it out. They all do.
They do talk - just not in the way we expect them to. Mine never suggested marital problems or wanting/needing things to change.
It would be a safe bet that she has thought it out and gone over every possible scenario. That's why so many come out swingning...because they have their ducks in a row.
Decisions like divorce aren't taken lightly and most definitely aren't instantaneous.
So any idea why she didn't tell me that she was thinking about it?
Did she ever mention any problems? Not happy about something? Sometimes they don't come right out and say it until they felt like they've exhausted all avenues...
She complained a lot, but she would never say that she was unhappy with the relationship. She would just complain about things she didn't like. And then she was quickly turn around and put a smile on her face, and act like things were fine.
"And then she <b>would</b> quickly turn around"
I wish we could edit our posts.
She complained a lot, but she would never say that she was unhappy with the relationship. She would just complain about things she didn't like. And then she was quickly turn around and put a smile on her face, and act like things were fine.
Just like mine did.
However, mine only mentioned things once and that was it.
And when she left, you finally understood that she was unhappy and what she wanted you to do, but the only "warning" was her closing the door, and she no longer wanted you to do anything but leave her alone?
It's such a cruel dynamic.
And when she left, you finally understood that she was unhappy and what she wanted you to do, but the only "warning" was her closing the door, and she no longer wanted you to do anything but leave her alone?
Yep. Pretty much. See, she'd say something once and always said that if it was important to me then that's all it needed to be said. But, excuses are excuses. She never fought for the marriage - or any of her past relationships. All she did was run when things didn't fit her perception of a fairy tale.
Out of the 10 years, there was only one time she stood up - and was over the sister. However, the sister "controls" her and says things to her that I would never imagine someone who supposedly loves someone would - but then again, her sister is narcissistic to the millionth degree...terrible person if she even thinks you are disagreeing with her.
When she left, I finally knew and realized things. After some revelations dealing with her abuse. And the major realizations didn't come about until we were on our second MCer.
It's such a cruel dynamic.
You have no idea, sir. No idea.
When my wife left, she agreed to go to a MC session. She said she enjoyed it and was glad she went, but then wouldn't go to anymore sessions. I probably screwed up too much by arguing with her (defending myself, mostly). Every time I argued with her after she went cold, every argument turned into this huge firestorm in her that did nothing but fuel her rage, push her away more, and make her want to go through with leaving me. I wish I had known sooner. When things were normal between, if she blew up, she would feel really sorry about it and come crying to me. Not the same dynamic at all now. The blowups are the most intense things I have ever seen, and only seem to result in bad things. The first time she had a major blow up, I hoped she was getting things out of her system -- that it was helping her mellow out. Nope. Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned. If only I had known what I was doing. But I was a clueless husband.
"When things were normal between us"
When my wife left, she agreed to go to a MC session. She said she enjoyed it and was glad she went, but then wouldn't go to anymore sessions. I probably screwed up too much by arguing with her (defending myself, mostly). Every time I argued with her after she went cold, every argument turned into this huge firestorm in her that did nothing but fuel her rage, push her away more, and make her want to go through with leaving me. I wish I had known sooner. When things were normal between, if she blew up, she would feel really sorry about it and come crying to me. Not the same dynamic at all now. The blowups are the most intense things I have ever seen, and only seem to result in bad things. The first time she had a major blow up, I hoped she was getting things out of her system -- that it was helping her mellow out. Nope. Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned. If only I had known what I was doing. But I was a clueless husband.
In the session you had the right to defend yourself - but did you do it attackingly back to her? Mine did the same thing...later on when I did the IC (my IC was also our MC) sessions, she felt the ex blew up like that because of her guilt. Guilt over her affair, etc.
The IC felt that since I didn't follow her end it script and wanted to work on the marriage, the ex blew up, etc... not in the form of yours, except one time.
You'll find that a lot of their actions are like that, especially in this time when the want out but we don't...
If she was planning this, it couldn't have extended back further than September or so, because she and I made plans in the summer to start trying to have kids in October.
If only I had known what I was doing. But I was a clueless husband.
Forgive me for not knowing, but did your wife suffer abuse? Can't be clueless if you were never let on to things.
If she was planning this, it couldn't have extended back further than September or so, because she and I made plans in the summer to start trying to have kids in October.
That's true. When was BD again?
In the session you had the right to defend yourself - but did you do it attackingly back to her? Mine did the same thing...later on when I did the IC (my IC was also our MC) sessions, she felt the ex blew up like that because of her guilt. Guilt over her affair, etc.
Well, I was talking about defending myself in arguments with her. I'm sure the marriage counselor would have never let her snowball into the tirades she can get into now. When defending myself, I would mostly just refute things she said. The most recent thing I can think of was her complaining that I watched porn. My response to her was something like "It was too bad that you never really complained about that before, when I could actually do something about it. Instead, you just said things like, 'Well, I know all guys do it', which made me feel like it was okay that I did it some." I was a real fool, but I was learning. She's not giving me a chance to learn. She was my first love, man. I don't have much experience. And never thought I needed to read the books I was given, because she seemed happy with me. Boy was I wrong.
I have wanted to go to IC, even years ago when my wife was asking me to go for anxiety, but my job requires a security clearance, and they want to know when you see people for mental health. I haven't wanted to lose my job on top of losing my wife. And when we didn't seem to be in danger in the marriage, I just didn't want to lose the job, but I know that a man without a job is also a very unattractive thing to a woman. So, I knew that it wasn't just risking the job, either. It was also risking her. They shouldn't care about people seeing a mental health therapist for just anxiety and depression, but I don't know that they don't care. And then there's the risk that the therapist will say you have something else that's scarier, whether you do or not. It's putting a lot of trust in your therapist.
If only I had known what I was doing. But I was a clueless husband.
Forgive me for not knowing, but did your wife suffer abuse? Can't be clueless if you were never let on to things.
Well, I was just clueless on how to treat a woman. I can't just treat her the way I'd want to be treated. She needs empathy, intimacy, and romance. I just made classic man mistakes, nothing major like cheating on her or getting in trouble for something bad. The only possible abuse was that she said one time when she was at her dad's, as a kid, she locked herself in a bathroom and called her mom to come get her, but she doesn't remember why. She wonders whether she made herself forget what happened because it was so bad. Her mom has also probably tried to implant some bad ideas about what happened. So, other than that, no known abuse. I certainly didn't abuse her, unless we're talking partial neglect -- doing too much of my own thing, just happy to have her "around", mindlessly thinking that because I'm happy, and because she appears happy to me, that things are fine.
That's true. When was BD again?
The bomb drop was her telling me she wasn't sure she wanted to be with me, after beginning to get cold towards me. It was late November or early December. I'm not sure when. Our anniversary is November 21. It was within one or two weeks after that, that she started to go cold. I haven't figured out exactly what date it all started.
My response to her was something like "It was too bad that you never really complained about that before, when I could actually do something about it.
You know, I said almost the same thing. It's funny how they want to try to turn things around in order to justify themselves.
And never thought I needed to read the books I was given, because she seemed happy with me. Boy was I wrong.
Right there with you. While my ex wasn't my first love, she was my biggest. It's funny how they "seemed" happy. Mine played that game for years and never let on.
I have wanted to go to IC, even years ago when my wife was asking me to go for anxiety, but my job requires a security clearance, and they want to know when you see people for mental health. I haven't wanted to lose my job on top of losing my wife. And when we didn't seem to be in danger in the marriage, I just didn't want to lose the job, but I know that a man without a job is also a very unattractive thing to a woman. So, I knew that it wasn't just risking the job, either. It was also risking her. They shouldn't care about people seeing a mental health therapist for just anxiety and depression, but I don't know that they don't care. And then there's the risk that the therapist will say you have something else that's scarier, whether you do or not. It's putting a lot of trust in your therapist.
Ah, the security clearance. Know it well. Both the ex and I have those clearances - and top secret at that. My ex, however, being active duty has seen enough base "counselors" that she knows how to beat them, period. She's very, very good. In her words, she has been to enough and seen so many that they can't help her any more. And yes, her stuff is in her records - I won't go into that, but ALL of it is there.
And then there's the risk that the therapist will say you have something else that's scarier, whether you do or not. It's putting a lot of trust in your therapist.
True. Maybe look for ones who are family therapist, not mental help ones.
Yeah. I was considering going to the guy we saw for MC. We liked him pretty good, although he was very full of psychobabble. He seemed to know his stuff and seemed to actually do things that were helpful, in that one session we went to. His specialty is MC, but he is a psychologist and could diagnose me with anything.
I'd look for another. Interview them and find a family therapist you like.
That would be the benefit of just seeing someone that counsels people, as you said. I just wouldn't know who to go to, and if I did go to them, if I my wife would consider that they "counted" as actual help, since they don't have psychology degrees. Examples might be ministers, someone like MWD and her staff, etc. But I'm not sure who I could see for anxiety and depression that could actually help, that didn't have a psychology background. I do not want medication, though. I do not think I need it, and my dad and wife have been very against it, as have I.
That would be the benefit of just seeing someone that counsels people, as you said. I just wouldn't know who to go to, and if I did go to them, if I my wife would consider that they "counted" as actual help, since they don't have psychology degrees. Examples might be ministers, someone like MWD and her staff, etc. But I'm not sure who I could see for anxiety and depression that could actually help, that didn't have a psychology background. I do not want medication, though. I do not think I need it, and my dad and wife have been very against it, as have I.
That's a tough thing. If you think you need the help for anxiety and depression, then I'd find a good one - there may/may not be forums in your area; I can't recall the website, but there are those that give reviews and testimonials. I'm pretty sure that given your situation and going through divorce, it wouldn't be counted against you to be seen.
That would be the benefit of just seeing someone that counsels people, as you said. I just wouldn't know who to go to, and if I did go to them, if I my wife would consider that they "counted" as actual help, since they don't have psychology degrees. Examples might be ministers, someone like MWD and her staff, etc. But I'm not sure who I could see for anxiety and depression that could actually help, that didn't have a psychology background. I do not want medication, though. I do not think I need it, and my dad and wife have been very against it, as have I.
Hello WshIKnw,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Earlier in your thread you mentioned wanting more info on The Last Resort Technique. Please email me directly and I will send you a link that will provide more specific information.I can also send you information regarding the DB Coaches and their backgrounds/qualifications.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Thank you, Cristy. I am considering calling.
Not pursuing is so hard. I haven't had any contact with W since Monday. Also, today I am very afraid that separation papers are coming. She told me a while back that she would send them last week or this week. At the time, I argued with her that she was rushing -- not giving herself time to change her mind. I would expect her to drop bombs, like separation papers, on Fridays, because it gives me the weekend to recover. I think she's so caught up in an OM fantasy, that she's just rushing things so that she can be with him. I don't know for sure yet, but I feel it so strongly that she is seeing another man.
Not pursuing is hard because it feels so wrong. I'm going to look through all the DB material to try to better understand when it's appropriate to stop not pursuing. I'd hate for her to be contacting me, and me never contacting her, and for her to feel like I'm not reciprocating -- not trying to make things work. But maybe that's how she is supposed to feel, like I'm moving on. I don't know. I don't want her to be saying to herself, "well, I must have made the right choice, because he's acting like he is okay with it, or doesn't want me." I've been accused a lot of being neglectful, by her. MWD says in the FAQ for the Last Resort Technique that I would want to go more lightly on not pursuing, but I don't really know how lightly to go. It's so hard to know what to do in my situation, because MWD isn't clear, I don't think.
But maybe that's how she is supposed to feel, like I'm moving on. I
Because she already has.
But maybe that's how she is supposed to feel, like I'm moving on. I
Because she already has.
What do you mean, Jeep? Are you telling me there's no chance, that she has moved on?
Are you telling me there's no chance, that she has moved on?
Look at it like this: First, there is the OM fantasy you speak of (which may entirely be real)...do you think that if someone is even "dreaming" about, much less involved/was involved, another person that you are even a blip on their radar? Or the fact that she's made no attempt? Or...
I'm going to throw this out:
I think she's so caught up in an OM fantasy, that she's just rushing things so that she can be with him. I don't know for sure yet, but I feel it so strongly that she is seeing another man.
Gut feelings are more often correct than not. Some won't say this or that its a bad idea, but for peace of mind you may want to hire a PI or something to find out. If she is, then the only radar blip you are is a target.
But it's still possible that if she is seeing someone, that she can stop seeing that person and be interested in me again.
It's entirely possible. But then the question of trust comes into play. How could you believe someone that obviously and blatantly lied to you? If she stayed too long "at the store," could you believe it? I mean, 100% believe it? If there is even a little bit of a doubt, then there is your answer. There is an inner strength/respect that one must have, regardless of the outcome.
I can't remember who said it on here, but the gist of it is that some stay out of fear or whatever. It took me a while before I was able to cross the line and see things as they really are. When someone goes as far as to dream/see/sleep with/get involved with another person, then the marriage is long dead.
I'm not saying that you should give up by any means, but reality needs to be seen, too. If you can accept what she has done and fully trust, then go for it. For many, its a deal breaker - and was for me. Do I still love my ex? Yes. Do I trust her? No.
I know that I was a neglectful husband that lost too much appreciation for her, and that is why I could trust her again. Because I strongly believe, and she has told me this as well, that if I'm doing my part, she won't look elsewhere for what she needs. Had I been a perfect husband, yes, it would be hard to trust her again to not abandon me, but I was far from perfect. I had no idea then how bad I was, but she has made it clear, and throughout my studies of this now, I have seen many of the errors I made. I wasn't conscious of the differences between what men need and what women need in a relationship. And I had been with her for so long, that I thought I was doing fine. I failed to make her feel cherished. In the future, if I know for a fact that I'm doing what I need to be doing, and she still abandons me, then yes, it would be hard to want her again, I think.
But I don't think she'd leave me if I'm doing the things she's asking me for, and even better, doing things without her having to ask for them.
All I can really say is work on yourself and become the best you can be. If she comes back, she does. But what you have to do is do what you can. There is nothing else you can do - or should, for that matter. If she decides to come back, she will. Remember my butterfly analogy?
The unfortunate thing is that by the time they reach this point, its done. Doesn't mean it can't happen, though.
But I don't think she'd leave me if I'm doing the things she's asking me for, and even better, doing things without her having to ask for them.
WshIKnw,
Wake up! Being the perfect do-boy is worth negative zero points to your wife.
But I don't think she'd leave me if I'm doing the things she's asking me for, and even better, doing things without her having to ask for them.
WshIKnw,
Wake up! Being the perfect do-boy is worth negative zero points to your wife.
What do you mean? I'm not saying I'd be an unattractive spineless whipped slave to her. I'm just saying I'd properly appreciate her, and treat her the way she should be treated. I would continue to educate myself so that I know exactly how to treat her.
One thing I'm seeing is that it appears that you are trying to make changes for her and to win her back. The thing is, it can't be. If she notices, great. If not, then you'll be more than ok.
Yeah, what Jeep said.
Forget about what your wife wants and become the best WshIKnw possible. Get out and kick @ss. Work hard, play hard and make your life the best life possible.
One thing I'm seeing is that it appears that you are trying to make changes for her and to win her back. The thing is, it can't be. If she notices, great. If not, then you'll be more than ok.
I'm talking about what I would do differently if she ever came back. That's extremely important. Be the same old husband when she comes back, and where will that take me?
Wsh,
You are filled with so much fear of losing your W that is jumps off the screen. The reality is, that has already happened. Now you are allowing the fear to be your navigation system. I believe that fear will lead you straight to the land of regret.
As you have read thread after thread in these forums, you will probably notice the timelines are not short. I posted to you on Tuesday to slow down. Breath buddy!!
There is not a magic bullet to quickly turn these situations around. It takes time and action. You need to make changes that are genuine and life lasting. FOR YOU!! When they are genuine and consistent, they are believable. Until you start working to get there, you will remain stuck. And yes, I believe the fear is paralyzing you.
Going to have to agree with LITB. She is already gone. I know that this is a scary part of your life - it was the scariest part of mine knowing that my wife and best friend isn't coming back. Scary as hell.
But now on are on your own path. Easier said than done, but you need to act like she never existed. Never.
As you have read thread after thread in these forums, you will probably notice the timelines are not short. I posted to you on Tuesday to slow down. Breath buddy!!
I kind of feel like I am patient, but my family is not. Some of them keep telling me that it's over. They will go back and forth about whether it's over or not, as I complain that I won't give up any time soon. So, I don't want to be told to give up. That is entirely my choice when to give up. The fear is high today because I am fearful she is going to send separation papers today, because I will have the weekend to get over it, and because she said it would be last week or this week. The way she has been toward me changed the last few times I saw her, for the positive. So, I am afraid of receiving papers and feeling like that positive change was for naught. But I know that even after complete separation, there is a chance she could turn around. This all seems so out of character for her. If the real W comes back, I feel like she will be back in my arms. She loved me too much to do this. She is going through something, I think, and it might be just a fantasy fling that needs to take its course, and that I need to learn from, and say to myself, "Hey, idiot. Take notes. You can't neglect your wife, and think you'll keep her eyes on you forever. When she complains, those aren't just bad moods or small things. You have to keep asking her how things are, periodically, or you will be driving in the dark with your lights off."
There is not a magic bullet to quickly turn these situations around. It takes time and action. You need to make changes that are genuine and life lasting. FOR YOU!! When they are genuine and consistent, they are believable. Until you start working to get there, you will remain stuck. And yes, I believe the fear is paralyzing you.
Your encouraging and guiding words mean a lot, LITB. Thank you. And yes, fear is one of my biggest problems, and was a major problem for her.
I highly recommend reading up about The Stockdale Paradox. It is incredibly profound and inspiring. It helped put things in perspective for me. Perhaps it is something that you will find to be helpful.
The Stockdale Paradox is named after admiral Jim Stockdale, who was a United States military officer held captive for eight years during the Vietnam War. Stockdale was tortured more than twenty times by his captors, and never had much reason to believe he would survive the prison camp and someday get to see his wife again. And yet, as Stockdale told Collins, he never lost faith during his ordeal.
I copied and pasted the bold text above to give you an idea.
LITB, Thank you for that about the Stockdale Paradox. I looked into it some, and will look into it some more. From looking at your signature, apparently you have gone through similar to what I'm going through, and you have found reconciliation twice. That gives me hope.
From looking at your signature, apparently you have gone through similar to what I'm going through, and you have found reconciliation twice. That gives me hope.
Yes, I went through my own personal he11. I learned a lot and made many mistakes along the way. I truly believe that we can learn more from one storm, than a thousand days of sunshine. We tend to be more motivated to change when faced with loss. It's your time if you so choose.
I am more than happy to share with you what worked for me and what didn't. I can tell you that I paid a big price for allowing fear to be my guide. Financially and time separated from my children. I call it the fog of fear. Members on here tried to warn me, but I thought that I knew better. Anyway, lessons learned.
Yes, I went through my own personal he11. I learned a lot and made many mistakes along the way. I truly believe that we can learn more from one storm, than a thousand days of sunshine. We tend to be more motivated to change when faced with loss. It's your time if you so choose.
I agree a whole lot.
I am more than happy to share with you what worked for me and what didn't. I can tell you that I paid a big price for allowing fear to be my guide. Financially and time separated from my children. I call it the fog of fear. Members on here tried to warn me, but I thought that I knew better. Anyway, lessons learned.
I'd love to hear more about what you went through. Did you have a thread here? Is it still around?
I'm conflicted, because I'm the exception to the rule of needing to never pursue. If your spouse has accused you of being neglectful and distant, MWD says that you might not want to go all out on not pursuing. (She says this in the LRT video series.) I just don't know. I did pursue W a lot for the first month of her going cold on me, before she left, and then pursued her some after she left, and all I got was rejection, frustration, and silence a lot of the time, especially if my pursuit involved talking about the relationship. So, I wonder if that means that I have pursued enough, even for the husband that was accused of being neglectful. I'm just afraid of not pursuing too much. The rules on pursuit are not cut and dry for me, because I was neglectful. It makes it very hard to know what to do. And at some point, you've got to stop not pursuing. If she is contacting you, and you never reciprocate, that would be bad. So, I've got to study this material more and figure out when I can stop not pursuing.
I did have a handful of threads. You can click on my username, and go to "view posts" to read them. I've only tried to read through them once. I didn't get very far, because it was difficult to revisit them.
I still suggest not to pursue your W.
What have you been doing to begin making changes within yourself? What are your goals, outside of saving your marriage?
I want to gain weight. So far, I've just gotten back to the weight I was before she dropped the bomb on me. I've been working out. The hard part is eating enough food, and then there's this numbness I get in my arms and hands after working out, that shows up at night when I'm sleeping. I'm going to see what happens when I don't do the forearm exercises. But my forearms and hands are what need the most development. I probably have some carpel tunnel issues, from too much computer use.
I want to make friends and get out more. I have made one friend, but have not yet been able to hang out with him in person. I'm not a very religious person, but I'm going to go to the church that my wife and I went to from time to time. I know I will find inspirational things in the message, and I do try to maintain faith, but it's hard when hit with stuff like this. And the most welcoming and friendly people from my experience tend to be in churches. I may even see my wife there. She went last week, before she came over to visit me.
I haven't been doing my old hobbies at all, which were mostly just working on video games -- understanding how they work and making my own modifications to them. I was too into my hobbies. I didn't put enough priority in my marriage. I resent my hobbies and want nothing to do with them right now. I don't view sitting around on the computer working on code all day as getting a life and doing something that my wife would find appealing. It's also not very healthy. I have no desire to do it. I only desire to do what would help bring her back -- studying information about my marital situation, and trying to make improvements to myself that she would appreciate.
I know you say I shouldn't be changing for her, but I have to have a plan in place on how to be the husband she needed me to be, in case she ever comes back. Most of the ways I needed to change for her would be easy, now that I'm fully motivated and fully understand how hurt and unhappy she was. It's hard to be motivated to make someone happier and give in to their requests, when they already seem happy to you most of the time. She would put a smile on her face, regardless, and carry on. Whereas, I think I've always worn my heart on my sleeve (though not right now, when I'm around her or people in her circle). I feel very confident that I would be able to do pretty much all the things she needed from me. The only challenging things were where anxiety got in the way -- getting out and traveling. I have been taking care of the house quite well. She can still get in any time she wants and be able to see that I'm not letting the floors get filthy and letting dirty dishes and trash pile up.
I've thought a lot about getting a motorcycle. It might help me to fight my fears. The only thing really keeping me from having one before was not wanting to put so much trust into all the other drivers on the road. Riding a motorcycle might trigger something in her that would make her really wonder whether I have changed. I could always stop riding it if I wanted to once she came back. She probably wouldn't want me to ride it, out of fear for my safety, anyway. The idea is to do something that I think I would enjoy (I enjoyed my dirt bike as a kid), stand up to fear, and catch her eye and make her see me as a new person.
I have changed my facial hair and I am very strongly considering getting rid of my pony tail that I've had for 15 years. My hair got in the way of us doing things, because it took me longer to get ready in the morning, because it takes a lot of time and effort to care for, if it's going to look nice. I always have hated the effort it requires, and she would from time to time mention me cutting it short, but never really pushed it much. She fell in love with me with the pony tail. So, I'm a little scared to change that. She would say that she was scared of me changing it -- scared she wouldn't like it. But that would show her that I'm trying to change, if I got rid of it. And she would say to herself, "that's one less thing that would get in our way of having a good time and getting out". Also, I know that long hair on a guy is usually a turn off for ladies. So, my wife might actually find me more attractive, and other women ought to as well, which could make my wife concerned that she could lose me to someone else. Becoming more physically attractive is something that I really want.
Her biggest issues with me seemed to be with my lack of desire to get out, socialize, and my lack of effort to be healthier. She wanted me to gain some weight, put on some muscle and some fat, and be stronger both physically and mentally. These are the things I'm working on most, not just because she needed them but because I think I need them, too (obviously, being healthy is something you should want). I especially need friends now that I don't have her. I felt like I had everything I needed, before. Then she left, and it's been like this huge hole ripped out of my being, leaving this massive void of loss and unfilled needs.
unfulfilled needs*
I wish we could edit our posts.
I am more than happy to share with you what worked for me and what didn't. I can tell you that I paid a big price for allowing fear to be my guide. Financially and time separated from my children. I call it the fog of fear. Members on here tried to warn me, but I thought that I knew better. Anyway, lessons learned.
Hey, LITB. Can you tell me more about what you learned through the process -- the mistakes you made, and the things you learned that worked, at least on your wife? And can you tell me more about how fear was a problem for you?
I'll give you credit for admitting your changes are motivated to change your W's mind. I will still hammer you to make the changes for yourself. The changes are more likely to stick if you do them for yourself.
Have you considered volunteer work? Serving at a soup kitchen for example. I believe when we are busy helping others, it helps us put our focus elsewhere. Additionally, you will be able to form new friendship.
I am a believer myself. It was incredibly helpful in my growth. Again, do it for yourself. Not to see your W at church.
Time to start a new thread.