Hi all, new here.
So, my husband dropped the bomb July 9th, filed July 13th. Up until then I had honestly things were getting better. About a year ago was the start of the red flags - he had said something along the lines of not respecting me since I wasn't pulling my own weight. I have depression and anxiety and had been having a hard time with employment. And honestly, I'd been slacking in household duties as well. This spring there were a few more times he'd say things like he didn't feel loved or appreciated and I honestly didn't really listen to him. I was scared, and never thought it would lead to this. In April was the first time he said he wanted a divorce, but it was said in the heat of an argument, and afterwards he said he gets self-destructive when he's depressed and since I am such a part of him he lashed out at me.
After that, in May, things were going better - I thought. I was trying to communicate better, and I had started job hunting, and slowly getting my feet under me. I had gone to visit family in Alaska at the start of June and he called me every night I was gone and said he missed me and when I returned he bought me flowers and chocolate. I started a new job June 23rd. He said he was really proud of me and that he would be super supportive of me and do more around the house so I wouldn't have to stress about it with my new job.
June 30th he got accepted to grad school. He's also still working
full-time. July 6th he started looking at divorce stuff, July 9th he dropped the bomb. He said he couldn't do grad school, work full-time, and take care of me at the same time, so he needed to do what was best for him and divorce me, and he doesn't want to work on it. He says because he doesn't believe I can change.
He says he still likes me, just not IN love with me, and that he wants to stay friends and roommates, and he's paying all rent and bills while he still lives here which he plans to do for the next 2 years while in grad school.
I believe that he still cares about me - when he first dropped the bomb and I was still dealing with it I asked if he meant that we were still friends and his face was full of affection when he looked at me and said yes. He also told me that I would find someone else to love me, but until then he would be my safety net, just not my husband.
From talks we had in July and looking back before that, I believe I know most of the ways in which I failed him. Not cooking, not cleaning, not working, not listening, being needy/dependent. Not an exhaustive list.
So far, I have done the usual screaming, crying, begging, pleading, trying to logic him out of it. I realized on my own after about 2 weeks that it wasn't going to work and decided I would try to show him that it wasn't an empty promise when I said I could change. I've been getting the house cleaned and organized, I tried to cook him dinner but he said it was inappropriate so now I just cook for myself. I've been doing well at my job. I've started back up with yoga. I'm making an effort to find new friends and a wider support network.
I've slipped up twice - once, August 4th I got drunk and got into a fight with him. August 14th, I tried to have a "talk" with him, but it didn't end in a fight. He just basically said he couldn't love a sick woman anymore and that he would start to believe the changes in a few months, which I understand. I know I need to be patient.
There have been some good days with him as well, two that stand out. Up until the fight August 4th, he had been keeping his wedding ring on his keychain and he was still on our joint bank account. During the fight I told him to get off, so August 5th he put the ring in his top dresser drawer and got his own bank account.
On August 6th, he got drunk at a town festival. He told me he didn't actually like being out and being sociable, and then he wanted to go to a movie with me. We went to Suicide Squad. After the movie, he was being flirtatious and playful; pinching at my butt and stuff. Driving home he started to play music, saying he was picking out songs he thought I'd like. After a few funny songs, he said he had one that he thought I would like but it was sad. I said that was okay, and he played "Places to Rest" by Riki Lindhome of Garfunkel and Oates. For those who don't know it, the lyrics go "Tonight, of all the places to rest//I like your arms the best//And I know when we're through//I'm really gonna miss you". He also played "And the World Turned" by Gabe Dixon Band, chorus goes "I miss you, come back to me". He was crying listening to these songs and reached out to hold my hand. I let him. Of course the next morning he made a point of calling me "roomie" and saying "thanks for putting up with your drunk ex last night".
Then last Friday, September 3rd, I carefully invited him to watch a show with me. I said I was going to watch it, and he could join me if he wanted. He said he would. We watched Stranger Things, and knowing that I would probably get spooked and want to hide on his arm, I grabbed my pillow to hide behind instead. When I started getting spooked and hiding on my pillow, he still reached out to comfort me, at one point resting his hand on my knee and leaving it there for a while. (When we watched the season 6 finale of Game of Thrones a few weeks prior, he had seen it already and knew which parts would scare me so he came over to comfort me during those times as well.) After the show we were talking a bit and he opened up to me just a tiny bit and told me that the other night he had been feeling lonely and emotional so he joined Tinder, and I laughed with him about how Tinder is lame. After a bit of chatting, I made sure to excuse myself from the conversation first, saying I had been up early and needed to sleep, and then said goodnight and walked away. He got up and followed me to my room (we're sleeping in separate rooms), and stood in my doorway talking to me for another 30 minutes. So, that felt nice that he sought me out.
There was another time at the end of July I had a psych appointment and I was planning on asking for a change of treatment as I felt what I was on wasn't working well. The morning of, I found out he had the day off and asked him what he would be doing at my appt time. He got angry immediately, saying he was so busy and why what could I possibly have in mind. I calmly explained I thought he would be helpful at my appointment but that it was no big deal if he was too busy. He left for the gym. After about 20 minutes, I sent him a funny picture I found on the internet I thought he would enjoy, and he responded "lol" then after a bit sent me something along the lines of he was thinking about joining me at my appt, did I think it would be helpful. I said, yes I really did as he knows me so well and knows my depression symptoms well and has good insight and experience. He then agreed to attend my appt with me.
In bad news, tomorrow is our anniversary and he felt like "checking in" with the courts to see how the divorce proceeding is going. He's doing it by himself, no lawyer, and honestly doesn't really know what he's doing. He still hasn't served me properly, he gave me a copy of the original notice but no petition and he didn't file an acceptance of service so my 20 days countdown to answer hasn't even started yet. He figured it out today emailing the courthouse so I feel a confrontation is coming soon. He left his email open so I saw it, but he hasn't talked to me about it yet.
Anyway, I've read DR. I still feel like there's more I should/could be doing. Am I doing enough of a 180? I think to go from no job and not cleaning to working full-time and cleaning up is a good start. I also used to call/text him a lot throughout the day so I've stopped that for the most part - I respond to him and very occasionally will I say something first, like when I invited him to watch the show with me. I'm trying not to follow him around the house.
I'm conflicted on a few things that I couldn't find much of an answer to in the book. I don't know what it means that he says he wants to stay friends. I don't know if the little positive things I see are actually positive steps, or him just thinking "we're just friends", or if I'm even reading too much into things! I'm trying not to, but I also don't want to miss out on appreciating the little victories. Do I go the "let's just be friends" route to re-establish a positive connection, or is that letting him have his cake and eat it too?
I do plan on calling a DB coach after I get paid this Friday.
Sorry for the super long post, it's been a whirlwind and I'm doing my best to know that I will be okay without him in the event that the divorce goes through. I know I will be. I know I don't need him. But I'm still so scared to lose him. I can't believe that 3 short months ago my life was almost perfect - or so I thought. And now...
Thank you for reading and any words of support or sympathy or advice you may have.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
csabo,
I think you're off to a good start. I think getting a DB coach would be good for you. The advice you get on this forum is often in conflict with the coach's advice, but you'll get it figured-out.
Good luck with your divorce busting; it's generally a marathon and not a sprint, so hang in there.
From talks we had in July and looking back before that, I believe I know most of the ways in which I failed him. Not cooking, not cleaning, not working, not listening, being needy/dependent. Not an exhaustive list.
Ironically, my W didn't do any of the things you listed and I was bitter and resentful towards her. She ended up leaving me and now none of that stuff seems important anymore. I've been doing all the stuff for myself now and I think if I would have just picked myself off the ground and started doing it my W would probably have started putting effort into that stuff again.
My wife is divorcing me because I'm a psychopathic narcissist with delusions of being Jesus Christ, John Cena and Mother Teresa. I told her that I'm absolutely not a psychopathic narcissist and I've given up on the Mother Teresa thing (I couldn't stop playing with my boobs).
Doodler. Hoarious.
I echo RDS. However, it wouldn't have helped IMHO. She had started the slide. Housework isn't the answer at that point it's listening validating and saying things like what might help? Then doing those things. That's where we all fell down.
Those things you 'know' of. Are the things you need to work on. Consistently. It's normally really things like 'being there'......which incidentally I never got. I do now. My response was but I am home at leat 5 days out of 7 for bedtime for the kids etc.
She meant, being there to listen, validate and tell her it would all be alright. Don't worry. I get that now. But then they stop telling you and the sh!t really hits the fan.
Scabo, you seem to be doing great already. The Tinder response was grade A! Great move. Hand on the knee etc. Loving that.
Just keep going, being kind, not reacting and doing a few nice things every now and then, when his mood is right.
Are you sleeping in the same bed?
Surfer.
Csabo even. Apologies made you sound like you have a skin disorder there
Hi Surfer. Haha, it's alright.
He did give the divorce papers to the sheriff, just got the knock on the door. Sigh, great anniversary present. I didn't say anything about it being our anniversary, though. I remained calm.
He just got done telling me about how he couldn't talk to some cute girl at the gym, and that he came to the realization that he's a "loser" and that's why he was always okay with it when things weren't going well. He didn't specify, but I felt like he meant not going well between us.
It's hard not to get discouraged when things like this happen, it's like such a slap in the face.
He has moved to the guest bedroom, did so almost immediately back in July.
I wonder if I should also mention, I forgot in my first post, we've been together for 9 years today and married for 7 in November.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Csabo, I'm sorry you find yourself here, but it is an amazing community to journal and get your thoughts out, with amazing people who pull you up when you need and also point you in the right direction.
I think the opinion is quite divided on wether or not to be friends with them. The first time I did this and reconciled, I feel our friendship is what brought us both back together, among my other changes. Personally, I would like to get to a more friendly situation rather than the angry radio silence pretend she doesn't exist situation I've recently been in. Essentially db-ing takes some perfecting, what works for some doesn't work for others. I think part of the problem if they friend zone you, is hearing things like his venture on tinder and the girl at the gym. Personally, that's where I would lay a boundary and say that you don't feel comfortable hearing that kind of thing. I think it's fairly disrespectful for him to talk about ow so freely with you.
You sound like you are doing good, I wouldn't worry about the early mistakes, we all have made them. It's how you carry on going forward, consistency is key!
He does sound like he is in a bit of conflict about his decision which is good. But try not to focus too much on that and build expectations, and don't allow him to cake eat. It's not fair on you for him to say he wants a d but then carry on being affectionate with you.
Good luck, and keep posting. You sound rather strong and like you are on the right path.
Hi Csabo,
pull up a chair at the girl's table. Our stories seem to be different than the guys here, but they are always here for us with great advice. Perhaps add your signature so we can keep track of you!
Ah, the friendzoning and the Tinder talk. I am afraid to think about H poking about on Tinder, but as you might see on other threads he wants to date (and for me to date during the S). I am also afraid to be friendzoned, although DB coach recommends for now, being a friend.
So here's how I'm toeing that line:
I don't see him much, but when I do, I make sure I've got hair and makeup done, looking good, short shorts and pushup bra. Smelling great. Then I treat him like a friend. (I'm trying to be funny here, but I am also serious)
I'm sweet to him and listen and validate. If H told me he was on Tinder-- not sure what I would do-- but I wouldn't react really, but get out of the situation. ("oh no, just got a work call, gotta go")
I definitely don't want him telling me about his dates. The curious part of me would want to listen, but I'd have to shut it down, otherwise that is super friendzone zone. Not sure what DB coach will say, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. HTH...
Hi Cherry, thanks for the feedback. It does sound like a good boundary to set to not let him talk to me about other women, thanks for that idea. I feel like I used to try to be very acquiescing to him, so maybe a "180" would be to set some boundaries like that.
I'm actually still feeling pretty discouraged, just...him serving me the divorce papers on our anniversary felt like a really low blow. I'm almost tempted to say something to him about it, but I don't think it would help me any. It certainly can't change what happened.
I'm still going to be keeping consistent with my changes, working on me and working on detaching.
I guess I would like to ask if anyone has any advice or wisdom on dealing with the mixed messages/ hot and cold behavior.
Like, last Friday night was really nice and I thought he started opening up to me a little, maybe testing the waters by telling me about how he felt lonely and how that might be a sign that he's starting to change his mind...but he went ahead and served me the divorce papers anyway! On our anniversary no less.
How do I balance the small positives with the big negatives?
He just got done telling me about how he couldn't talk to some cute girl at the gym, and that he came to the realization that he's a "loser" and that's why he was always okay with it when things weren't going well. He didn't specify, but I felt like he meant not going well between us.
My take is that he is saying he "feels like a loser". He saying he didn't notice it when the sh!t was hitting the fan in the relationship as he was distracted or perhaps felt his feelings were appropriate.
Look you have no kids so D is much easier for him. But if you really want to give it a shot, get the housework sorted and other things he will see. Both of you keep on top of it. Try if I do this (vaccuming) would you mind doing that (mow the lawn) please? If not, just crack on cheerfully. working together on simple things like housework can help. You have obviously been a bit slack around the house from your posts.
In terms of other physical things he can see as you change What about your appearance? You need to look your best.
The final bit is being the best person you can be, doing what you did not do. I.e things to make you and him feel better out each other. This last bit is the thing that takes time. You can work on one thing today though and that is to be cheerful, fun you, always happy when you interact. Even if he is spewing at you. Tricky but it's 'act as if'. It's do-able.
The really hard but is not only to keep all of this up but also to drop negative relationship habits and keep them dropped. You can't do things for now. Don't do anything you are not willing to do for the rest of you life is a really scary but true mantra. But you have to work out - what are my negative relationship habits, honestly, and see if you are willing and able to change.
I hope this helps. You clearly have your feet on fairly firms foundations in terms of DB'ing. Take it slowly. You are moving an oil tanker. It takes time....
Surfer.
Oh nearly forgot. On the "loser" point. Don't ask him about it. You know what he means and he doesn't like feeling like this.
He needs to feel he is not a loser. He needs to feel happier about himself. Be his cheerleader. Help him to feel better about himself.
Just little things, I like....those jeans they suit you....the way you think like that. Something that won't make him cringe, you will know what will work.
Try it and journal your responses.
Surfer.
Csabo,
On the hot/cold behaviour, he is mixed up. Simple as that. He's being inconsistent. Perhaps in light of this you need to think about the direction of the relationship for now. As he is not really choosing a path as such. He's darting came but "all over the place".
Going back to what I said about the changes you can make for you. Stick with them - also loved Altairs comment "short shorts, push-up bra, smelling great" comments - guys are so easy.....(LoL). But if you are still repeating poor behaviour patterns he will see through this and you must be consistent.
On the loser point, go really light on making him feel better about himself. Perhaps even leave it for a while as you might need to detach a little but get out of the house looking great as you leave. GAL. Let him see you being the best version of you first.
Surfer.
So here's how I'm toeing that line:
I don't see him much, but when I do, I make sure I've got hair and makeup done, looking good, short shorts and pushup bra. Smelling great. Then I treat him like a friend. (I'm trying to be funny here, but I am also serious)
Csabo, sorry to find you here but you really are in good company and not alone.
I agree with what Altair says. I don't see my W often but when I do I make sure I look my best. I know what she likes so I do that and then, like Altair said, I treat her like a friend sometimes less than a friend sometimes we talk very little but I know my appearance has always had an affect.
As for the hot and cold I have to agree with Surfer. It's probably just that he's confused and mixed up and not sure how to act. I think most WW or WH go through that. I'm constantly getting the push/pull act from my WW. I try to ignore it and just keep my focus on me.
Keep your head up and keep posting, I'll keep an eye out!
I've been going through your posts again and might have missed it but did you ever read DB or DR?
Yeah, I've got DR checked out from the library and read it.
I found that he bought a box of condoms yesterday, it was opened and some were taken out. That really just...like, I guess it's not really "cheating" since I guess we're separated, but...ugh. And we've been separated for two months but he hadn't purchased condoms before now. Was it the "epiphany" that he was with me because he's a loser that spurred him further away from me and now he's like...planning, or at least hoping, for some random drunk girl at the bar to go home with?
He went out to bars last night "with co-workers". I went to my sister's but didn't tell him my plans. Even though I didn't go home last night (still not home) I've gotten no messages or anything from him wondering where I am or anything. Though, I guess I don't know that HE went home last night either. Ugh.
We're planning on watching more of Stranger Things on Sunday morning, I guess I'll see how his behavior is towards me while we're hanging out. If he's still being a little affectionate and trying to open up to me, or if he's gotten more distant.
I went out with some friends Thursday night, and when I got home around midnight he was home on the computer and he mentioned I looked good. So, that was kinda nice.
I haven't called a coach yet. I'm worried this is just so over. A few weeks ago, I was out with friends and told him some guy was flirting with me - not to make him jealous or anything, it was back when I was still talking to him a lot out of habit - anyway, he was all telling me to "get it, girl" and like, encouraging me to be with other guys. I read somewhere that you know it's over when you can picture your SO with another and it doesn't bother you. Maybe that's where he's at right now.
But then again, believe none of what they say, right?
This is so hard. Thanks to all of you for reading and responding. It helps to have people who understand and to get feedback from.
Also, I was thinking about "confronting" him of sorts, about some of his behavior the past two months.
For example, I bought new Tupperware to take my lunch to work with me, and he used one of them without asking. As a wife, like yeah what's mine is yours it's fine. But as "just friends"/roommates, that's kinda rude of him to use my things without asking.
I just want to be like, either we're married or not. If we're married, we're working on this and you need to shape up. If we're not, then you need to quit relying on me for housework and stuff and you need to shape up. I can't let him keep thinking he can just walk all over me.
So from what you learned in the book, what were the problems and what have you changed?
Wasn't cooking/cleaning, didn't listen to him, sex was infrequent, not taking meds. I've cleaned a bunch, started cooking for myself (he said it was awkward when I tried to cook for him), can't do much about the sex atm, I listen and pay attention when he talks. He said the biggest issue is that he didn't feel loved, he felt needed. I'm not sure what to do about that at this point.
I was going through old emails and things, and came across a chat with him from the end of April, he had started talking about D then and suggested a separation and told me he loved me but needed a change and somehow I turned it back onto myself and what I needed from him and I didn't listen and I didn't change and he put up with it through May and June, and...oh my god why didn't I listen then? And now it's probably much too late. He said "I feel like I've given all I had and it wasn't enough. I'm used up and burned out" and still tried for 2 months while I did nothing!!
I can't even breathe right now.
In April he said "What do you do to make me happy?
You don't cook, don't clean, and we don't have sex
You spend my money
You take my time
And each day you whine and moan non stop"
I've started cooking, cleaning a lot, have a job and spending my own money now, giving him time/space, being happy/positive when I see him. He also had said "Just, try to have more fun with me, we should have fun together" so I can try that during the times we do see each other as well
If it's not too late. In April he had also said he didn't see the point in trying anymore, and after two months of it not getting better...
Sorry for two posts in a row, I'm just...really shaken up right now
I'm so desperate to talk to him now
So why didn't you do those things before? Those are the things that make a man feel valued. Did you just blow him off or laugh at him when he told you these things?
I'm so desperate to talk to him now
Keep making your changes,
Now is not the time to stop,
Show him you can be happy no matter what his actions are.
I know it sounds counterintuitive but that is what DBing is all about.
I'm so desperate to talk to him now
No, no, no, no.
Don't.
Talking does not help. Action helps.
I know the changes seem momentous to you, but they are still very new. Your H is going to need time to believe the changes are real, and then he'll have to decide if that's enough for him to recommit.
In the meantime, one of the critical things to work on is learning to soothe your own emotions, so that you don't get desperate to talk to him.
I don't know, I was focused on other things. I didn't realize how dire the situation was or how serious he was. I always felt like the bigger house cleaning projects we would get to together.
I didn't talk to him, I called my mom and got myself calmed down before I saw him again.
We watched Stranger Things again this morning, he didn't reach too comfort me during the spooky parts and his body language was closed. So, that's depressing.
I feel like with the absence of the tiny bits of affection he had been showing that it feels like he was conflicted and 'on the fence' but it seems like with his deciding that he's been a loser recently that he's really just...over me completely.
It's been two months since he said he wanted to separate and it seems like just this past week he took a step further away from me. I don't know what else to do.
The push pull effect is quite common. Some days they will be more open and chatty, others maybe angry and silent, closed off. This isn't about you. It's about their internal struggle they are having with themselves. This is where detaching is key, because it allows their behaviours not to affect us. Believe me, it's taken me a while to get there, but you will. Just keep focused on yourself, keep busy, make some time for you, spend time with friends.
Don't let his moods/behaviours dictate yours. Stay steady, they're all over the board, so the best thing you can do is stay steady and stable.
Thanks, Cherry. Honestly, I've never even been through a break-up before at all so everything about this is so new to me.
Sorry you're here. I agree with getting a DB coach, it is the best investment you could make. And I applaud you for standing by your marriage in a day when M's without children are looked at by many as being as disposable as a paper plate.
The one thing that stood out was that the topic of infrequent sex didn't come up until the second page of your thread, there was little elaboration on this, and the feeling that 'well, he doesn't want sex now so not much I can do'.
For most 28 year old males, a fulfilling sex life is a critical NEED. I am on record of saying that I think most women underestimate the importance of sex to their husband, not just by a little, but by a scale of more than 10 to 1. Who knows the number, point is that it is much, much, much more important than I think you have even begun to guess. And it has almost nothing to do with the physical release which any man can do for himself, but for many men it is the way that they feel loved.
For me, when my marriage went through a sex starved period I felt absolutely void of love. I actually felt MISUNDERSTOOD and REJECTED. Not rejected because "oh, I'm not in the mood today" kind of rejection. I'm talking the "There is something fundamentally wrong with you for being who you are" rejection. Because if she did understand how important this was to me she wouldn't have dismissed it, any more than you would not feed your dog food because you weren't in the mood. And if she didn't understand how important it was, then she didn't even know who I was, at ALL. And her failure to understand who I was made me again feel grotesque, like an alien that she didn't want to look at or deal with, so she'd ask me to wear a mask over my head and pretend to be this other person that she wanted me to be, and when my soul was crying out in anguish and starvation to just bite my tongue because she didn't want to deal with it.
Totally lonely. Totally unloved. Totally misunderstood. Trapped in a marriage with someone that had no clue who I was, didn't seem to care, and wouldn't hear me when I tried to explain.
To your WAH's comments, I remember feeling I was essentially a single man that couldn't date other women and had to pay 100% of my paycheck in support.
No one can read WAH's thoughts, but I can see how he would be warm and cold, why he would say he's a loser, and why he might be exploring dating options. He could be warm because he still has feelings for you and is probably very attracted to you, but he has learned that he can't trust his needs with you and it will only lead to soul crushing torture if he tries, so he is distancing himself to protect himself because even though you look like the yin to his yang, he knows where the road leads when he tries to voice his needs to you and is rejected. He could feel like a loser for the same reason a kid might feel like a loser if their dad walked out when they were a kid. He wants to know what's so wrong with him that you'd let him starve to death emotionally when he'd do anything for you? And he could be going back and forth with other women because on the one hand he dreams of a relationship where his needs are met, but on the other he might be mixed about feelings for you, and more likely just feels he can't trust any woman with his needs because he's been burned so many times he is shattered and protective of his inner self. Of course, he may be indeed having an affair.
I'm not here attacking you, trying to make this all your fault, or defending your WAH's actions. It is a truly sad situation and I am 100% opposed to the choices that your WAH made.
But for you, here, now, standing by your M...I think you should move infrequent sex up on the list of 180s and make it number one by a long shot. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, I know there are different love languages, but if given the choice between having a fulfilling and adventurous exploratory sex life versus a vacuumed floor, I just can't see many 29 year old men choosing the rug creases.
What can you do about it now? Well, I'd recommend you learn everything you can about the topic of why sex is important to men, sex starved marriages, what fulfilling and adventurous sex means to men, etc. Read the stuff from a man's point of view, and see if you can bridge the understanding gap. It may not seem like it could make a difference what you know, or what you think now...but I think it does. It comes out in many ways without having to have sex. He has probably subtly tested you at times, trying to determine if it was safe to open up to you, and maybe decided it wasn't because of a reaction you didn't even know you gave off...like he might have said 'you know why I can't do this anymore', and when you stared blankly he knew that you'd never understand him and therefore could never meet his needs...or any of many other little things like this. I believe if you TRULY understand this better it will show, someway, somehow. You will be more compassionate and understanding of him when he is upset, you might validate slightly differently, etc. I'm NOT suggesting you pursue him or try to show off this understanding, but he won't be able to notice if it's not there, and even if he decided to come back the M might not be any better if you don't take these steps.
Hang in, keep posting, get a DB coach, and don't give up. Many long term marriages have moments like this. You can't control him or guarantee the outcome, but you can absolutely do everything possible to give it the chance to work out. You're off to a good start. Keep going!
This is very good advice from Zeus. Zeus, can you define "sex starved" period more succinctly?
Yeah, I didn't mention it before because I'm more of a private person and it's embarrassing to me. I'm not sure why, but sex started hurting about 3 years ago so became infrequent. Every time I went to the dr they gave me pills for a yeast infection but it never really helped, it so hurts to have sex. We would still "fool around" but... It's not the same. And he would end up having finish himself most nights. I'm so ashamed, especially if this is a major contributing factor to our divorce.
I knew it was important to him, but I guess I didn't realize quite how much. That he would feel unloved misunderstood, and rejected.
Thank you for that insight, I will try harder to understand. And I will call a DB coach. I hadn't yet because I had almost given up all hope, but if there's even a 1% chance, I have to fight for it.
Though, I honestly don't think there is another woman... yet. He's been telling me about his unsuccessful dating attempts so far.
I know it was suggested previously that I set the boundary of him not talking about other women to me, but I feel like if I'm trying to be a good, understanding friend I should listen to his problems. If he was telling me like, how great his new girlfriend is our something I would ask him not to say that to me.
I read one success story where a husband was cheating on his wife and left her for his mistress, but she just continued to be his best friend and never gave her approval for the OW but listened supportively and he realized his wife was his best friend and went back to her.
Sorry for typos, I'm on mobile at the moment
Still feeling pretty bummed about his lack of affection the last time we hung out. I wasn't expecting a LOT of affection, obviously, but the little mixed signals he was sending gave me a little hope that he was still "on the fence" so to speak...
I don't get many chances to connect with him. Our schedule's are so opposite I hardly ever get to even see him. Pretty much just on weekends and even then he might want to go out with friends instead of spend time with me. I work in the mornings so he's asleep when I get up, and he works evenings so he's at work when I get home, and I'm asleep when he comes home.
I'm not sure if this is a good thing, as he did want more time/space, or a not so good thing, as now how will he see my changes? I know they're for me - and they are, a lot of my GAL changes have helped me immensely and I'm going to keep them up no matter what happens, but they're also a little bit for our M, aren't they? I mean, this isn't a purely "get over it" type of strategy, it's also a "save your marriage" strategy...
Planning to schedule DB coach session tomorrow after my IC appointment...
This is very good advice from Zeus. Zeus, can you define "sex starved" period more succinctly?
Thank you Altair. If you meant what sex starved means in general I'm not really sure when it crosses that line versus a valley that all marriages go through at times. There is a sub-forum with much more information, although I hope csabo stays in newcomers as there is next to no traffic over there. But I would say that when the 'lower drive' spouse feels painfully neglected and the time turns from months to years...at that point I would consider it 'sex starved'.
Note, I didn't say no sex at all. I just said when it becomes infrequent enough to leave a substantial deficit. I also don't believe it's all about frequency, if the partner viewed sex as a necessary evil, went through the motions, in a routine and clinical way, I could see that leaving a huge emotional void of feeling misunderstood and neglected as well.
If you were asking in my specific case, well, this was irreconcilable differences in action. We definitely went through stretches of 6 months or a year without sex, or any physical contact, or in some cases without even speaking. I'd say this was our normal for 36 out of the last 42 months we were together. I was defeated. I couldn't engage with her without it causing more pain. I loved her, missed her, and wanted to be with her, but I didn't know how to start. Meanwhile she did try a few times to be accommodating and when she did I felt like the luckiest and most loved man in the world, but then she'd pull away and basically say that she didn't view sex like I did, that we weren't compatible, that she couldn't be the person I wanted her to be, etc.
In the end this is probably why we're divorced now. And it's really the reason I might not date again. It was the most painful thing in the world. I'd rather be alone than to be pushed away when I open up and asking for my most inner emotional needs to be met. For me personally I couldn't have sex with anyone. It would have to be my wife, my life partner, the one person that I can open up to and trust my heart with. So I'm not going to date casually or look at sex as something I can just go and do. It would be disgusting and mean nothing to me. But I don't know that I could open up again either. I don't think a woman could really understand or accept the desire in my heart, which is a large part of who I am.
I'm not sure why, but sex started hurting about 3 years ago so became infrequent. Every time I went to the dr they gave me pills for a yeast infection but it never really helped, it so hurts to have sex.
I'm sorry to hear, this is incredibly difficult for both of you and I can see why you might be devastated and feel like you're damaged goods when he walks, and betrayed and blamed unfairly for being who you are.
First off, I know that if XW had been permanently unable to have sex it would've been possible to make it work. Not easy, it would've been incredibly hard. But possible. Because it's truly an emotional need, not a physical one. I could think of ways that we could work it out. To share fantasies together, explore each other in different ways, again, this is embarrassing for me as well but the point is that there are many ways this could have been worked out, if my partner had understood the need and made it a priority to work with me.
That said, I think it's premature to write off sex altogether. And I think that the amount of effort that should be put in before writing it off should match the amount of effort you'd put in to curing, say, paralysis from the waist down. If you were paralyzed from the waste down and the first few doctors shot from the hip and gave you pills that didn't work, would you shrug and say 'meh, I guess I won't walk again...'? Probably not. You'd make it your life's mission to figure out what was going on and get it diagnosed and cured. What if it was your husbands paralysis? Well, this is how serious it is to your H. So for you to accept the lack of sex in your relationship is basically letting him wither because you're not the one feeling the daily, hourly, pain and suffering yourself. I think this was a mistake.
I would encourage you to look into this again. Clearly the diagnosis you received didn't work. Maybe it's truly chronic and nothing can be done, but again, I'd need to hear that from a large number of different specialists that had all died trying to figure it out for me before I considered accepting that.
Shoot, it's possible that if you got this figured out this could be a big part of the solution. I worked with a DB coach and at one point she had me write WAW a letter apologizing for what I did wrong in the marriage. I am not your WAH, but only because I would never leave my M. But we did go through stretches of defeat as I mentioned. Had she told expressed understanding of who I was, what I needed, told me she'd work with me to care for me, and back that up with action...well, I don't see how I couldn't have been absolutely fulfilled and loved for the rest of my days, and I can't imagine a guy walking from that.
Don't twist my words. I don't want you to pursue, I don't want you to have expectations, I don't want you to have sex with someone that is telling you they are leaving you if it cheapens you, etc. It's a tricky situation. But I do think getting this figured out quietly on your own is a good step, and from there get a DB coach and see what they advise.
Wishing you all the best.
I got myself another appointment to see if they can tell me anything besides yeast infection. We'll see.
He has said he doesn't want to just sleep around, it's not who he is, so maybe he feels similarly to you, zues.
He did tell me he has dreamed about other women kissing him, one girl from work he admits he has a crush on (but she turned him down when he asked her out) and one girl in his grad school classes. I don't know if that necessarily means anything, I guess, that he's dreaming about other women.
I know I'm not supposed to talk to him or ask for affection, but I was considering asking him to try to spend time with me a little more on the basis that I don't know how much longer I have with him and I want make the most of what little good times we have left before the divorce process makes him hate me.
I know I'm not supposed to talk to him or ask for affection, but I was considering asking him to try to spend time with me a little more on the basis that I don't know how much longer I have with him and I want make the most of what little good times we have left before the divorce process makes him hate me.
That's pretty strong pursuing.
I'm not saying you can't invite him to do something with you, but it should be along the lines of "I am going to do X. Want to join me?" And then, you do X whether or not he joins you, even if it means you leave him home alone and miss out on time with him.
Definitely don't share the ideas in your post (wanting to enjoy the time you have left).
It doesn't feel like "pursuing" if I'm admitting defeat, but I can see how it would be since it would be asking for time/attention and telling him how important he is to me. It's all so counter-intuitive sometimes. Thanks for the feedback, Rose.
Sometimes I feel like I just need to tell someone my stupid ideas so they can say, no that's a stupid idea, and then I get it out of my system, haha.
Sometimes I feel like I just need to tell someone my stupid ideas so they can say, no that's a stupid idea, and then I get it out of my system, haha.
That's how most of us are.
It's easier to see it in other people's situations, and only gradually do we start to see it in our own.
Sometimes I feel like I just need to tell someone my stupid ideas so they can say, no that's a stupid idea, and then I get it out of my system, haha.
I feel the same way. I can't tell you how many times I thought to try something but reading this board has kept me from doing it.
Have my first session with a DB coach in an hour. Any advice? I'm excited and nervous!!
I have no advice, but let your DB coach guide you. I have one last session I have to schedule and I'm waiting for the right time. My W used a lot of my DB against me during my temporary spousal support hearing, but I still wouldn't change a thing my DB coach has suggested.
Good luck.
Hi RDS, curious to know how/what was used against you?
Speaking on behalf of RDS...his DB coach advised him to write a letter apologizing for his contributions to the breakdown of the marriage. My DB coach did the same, and I still have a copy of the letter I sent.
In his case WAW used this letter in court to try to provide evidence that he was emotionally abusive and she had to leave, or along those lines.
In my opinion this is primarily a betrayal of trust, as I seriously doubt this letter influenced much of the outcome unless there are things RDS is keeping from us that he shared in writing with XW. But WAW told him she only followed the advice of her lawyer. And while I don't agree with her lawyer advising this, nor do I grant WAW amnesty for not vetoing it, I can certainly see how this could happen. Point is, this is mostly an emotional betrayal, not such a legal risk in my humble opinion. After all, while the letter may state some things he contributed to the breakdown of the marriage, it's very existence demonstrates he is a loving, committed husband with oodles of character.
The key is to let go of expectations. They have to go. Even when it comes to privacy. It's hard. I wrote a 7 page letter to my XW one time bearing my soul to her at one point during our M, and I later found out she forwarded it to her friends and her mom and asked 'what am I supposed to do with this?' I never had felt more betrayed. I compared it to if I had video recorded her making love and played it at my friend's house while a bunch of us drank beers and laughed. It was brutal. So I get the betrayal. But in the end we have to drop expectations and just act the way we believe we should because it's right, not because we think it will be appreciated, reciprocated, respected, or rewarded.
Do tell us how the session went and hang in!
Session with coach went really well. He pointed out some things I hadn't thought of that way before. He didn't seem daunted by my situation, so it renewed a little bit of hope. He also seemed to really understand my situation, he said H is a WAS and his core beliefs are that he knows me and that I can't change. H said those exact things to me as reasons not to try to work things out.
My next steps are continue GAL but trying to find things that really excite me and make my joyful, rather than just things to do. Also trying to add laughter and joy into my life more, even if it's just watching comedians before talking to him.
Currently at the dr getting checked out again for the sex issue, so working that angle too. Might not pay off right away as I'm not going to pursue him, but if things start getting better and we get to a point where he wants to have sex I want it to be better.
Thanks Zues, I too have written a letter condemning myself and excepting all blame. Hope that doesn't come back on me. I thought I was doing right thing by conveying my understanding and responsibility for the M downfall.
Hi RDS, curious to know how/what was used against you?
Sorry, to get back to you so late.
She used DB tactics against me such as going out in social circles again as I had stopped going out with her towards the end. That was part of GAL for me.
She used my apology letter my DB coach suggested I send (and my W seemed genuinely touched when she got it).
There were a few other things, but generally she used things I was doing to improve myself. In her mind I should have been doing stuff like before she left and it was proof that I was glad she was gone.
Speaking on behalf of RDS...his DB coach advised him to write a letter apologizing for his contributions to the breakdown of the marriage. My DB coach did the same, and I still have a copy of the letter I sent...
Zues,
I think IRL I would want to be your BFF.
What you wrote is exactly the way it came down. I couldn't have said it any better. I don't know if I should be sad or not, but I have forgiven my W for what she did. People that know of the situation (not many to be sure) think I'm an idiot for doing that.
I just really guard what I say and do now.
My H said when I started doing DB things like GAL and cleaning a lot that it was insulting since i should have been found it before he gave the "ultimatum". I'm not sure how to respond to that, I said I had gotten complacent, like when he got a gym membership but didn't use it for months.
Been doing it before. Not been found. Sorry, on mobile.
My H said when I started doing DB things like GAL and cleaning a lot that it was insulting since i should have been found it before he gave the "ultimatum". I'm not sure how to respond to that, I said I had gotten complacent, like when he got a gym membership but didn't use it for months.
A couple of months ago my W hinted around something along those lines as well. I validated by stating her actions (her leaving me) forced me to see how bad I had become and I did not want to be the hateful man anymore. It was the truth too. Until she left me I had no idea how hurtful towards her I had become.
I guess H was talking to his friend about how he doesn't want to just "hook up" with random girls and how it would have been so easy to stay with me, but that he's doing the right thing for his life but it's unjust how difficult it is to do.
If it's easier to stay with me, I just don't understand why he's trying so hard to leave. How do I combat the idea that it's the "right" thing to do to leave me?
I've got to just keep consistent with the changes, and with the GAL and implementing my new ideas from DB coach. Patience is the hard part! It's only been two months, feels like a lifetime! And I know lots of you here have been at it for much longer.
I think I also need to work on improving communication skills/validating. He tried to talk to me again the other day about why he felt like a loser, and I had a hard time not just saying "I don't think you're a loser..."
Last week was supposed to be our anniversary, it hit me pretty hard. Especially when he served me papers on the day. I think I've been a bit lax in my 180s and GAL efforts this past week... Making excuses to clean later and not getting around to it, that sort of thing.
No more! Today after work I am doing housework, then going out to ballroom dance lessons.
That sounds like a great plan!
Whenever I find myself falling back into emotional fusion (letting my mood be dictated by H's actions or what I think his mood is), I realize that I have let my GAL activities slip a little.
Yesterday, I ended up being very exhausted. I did manage to vacuum and load the dishwasher in between trying to nap, but did not make it to dance lessons. My friend called and wanted to go to the fair at 8, which is when dance lessons were, so I decided to go to the fair instead but then it stormed pretty bad so we didn't go at all. I don't feel too bad about it, I have not been sleeping well these past few weeks and I think I needed the rest. It's important to have fun but also important to take care of yourself, and my body was telling me I needed rest.
Today, I felt a bit sad for H - he is clearly not happy even thought he is the one who wanted to leave. He is afraid of being alone, I think.
I felt mostly okay, starting to detach?, but just now I was reading a short story with a sick woman (post-partum depression, I think, though it never said) and a doting husband, and I felt sad for me again. I don't want to lose my husband. I don't want to lose this life I've built with him.
I know it's hard to detach early, and though it feels like it's been a lifetime, 2 months is probably too early, but some days I feel just a...bittersweetness about this all. Happy for the memories, sad for the change, but mostly okay. Some days I just want it to be over with already, out of this limbo. Let him go if he is going.
I worry about him. I don't think he is being emotionally healthy with himself, fretting about having sex with other women and whether that's what he wants or not, and why can't he just find someone to love him already. He's not giving himself time to get over this marriage and he's already trying too desperately to move on. Like he's not acknowledging there's a void in him from this and accepting it.
Even though I am still trying to save my marriage, I am also trying to prepare for the eventuality that it may be over. I am trying to make plans for myself for the future. I think I may move to the state my dad lives in to get a fresh start away from here where everything reminds me of my husband. It's a little exciting to think about, and gives me something to look forward to, a light at the end of the tunnel.
Some days I feel like I should just move on now. He says he's divorcing me because of my depression, and I keep thinking if I could just be better then he would stay. But honestly, I've been fighting this depression since before I knew him, I don't think it can just go away that easily. Even if he does come back, I think I would always have that hanging over my head - if I slip up he will leave again. It's too much pressure.
Though, I feel that if he felt he loved me again the depression wouldn't be the issue. He loved me through 2 years of depression and then married me anyway and stayed by my side another 7. I think if it was the deal breaker he says it is, then it would have been the deal breaker long ago. I think he thinks I stopped trying, and that was the issue. If I can show him I'm trying...maybe...
I have another 10 days to file my answer to his petition, and then we have a mandatory 90-day waiting period before we can file anything else. After the 90 days, we can file whatever else needs to be done and then request a court date which could take a few weeks. I figure I have another 4 months at least, which puts me in January or February. Hey, he gave me divorce papers for our anniversary, maybe I can give him a finalized divorce for Valentine's Day.
Though I love him dearly, and feel I will always love him in some way, I think once the divorce is finalized I will move on with my life. I know there is still hope for reconciliation after the big D and who knows how I will feel then, but right now that is my cut off.
I guess H was talking to his friend about how he doesn't want to just "hook up" with random girls and how it would have been so easy to stay with me, but that he's doing the right thing for his life but it's unjust how difficult it is to do.
One thing I often post to newcomers is this:
Don't follow your emotions, because they're all over the place. Don't follow your thoughts, because they are nothing more than rationalizations of your haywire emotions. Instead, follow your true beliefs. No matter how hard. Only they can steer you right.This is perfect example. Another example is Cherry's WAH remarking that expected her to fight harder for their relationship. None of this makes any sense. But they aren't crazy. These thoughts do reflect how they are feeling. But they are all over the map, illogical, and inconsistent. This doesn't make them horrible people, it just means that they haven't learned the Zues rule.
A while back I posted an excerpt from my journal in 2011. My M was horrible, horrible, horrible. I understand why XW threw in the towel. For the last 42 months we were together I think 36 of them we weren't speaking, just out of defeat. It was bad. Point is, there was a time when I was really torn about whether to stay or go. I reread my journal, and it had all of these pages of writing about why it would make sense to leave, and why it would make sense to go. But in the end I kept coming back to the idea that there was something priceless about the preservation of the marriage, the family, and keeping the opportunity alive for our love to re-bloom. My point is that while I felt the feelings of a WAS, and I thought the thoughts, I didn't take the actions. I could've handled myself much better, but I didn't walk from the marriage.
For your WAH...that is to be seen. Sure he is feeling the feelings, and he is thinking the thoughts. He has BD'ed you. The M is dead, make no mistake. But as of yet he hasn't taken action that has totally burned the bridge. He may. Or he may have a wake up call before he does. It's impossible to predict. Just realize that there is a difference between what he is feeling/thinking/saying versus what he actually does. Truly believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
And that is why it's so important for you to detach, and also to act on your own beliefs. You detach to avoid his craziness (whether he turns back towards the M or goes full steam ahead towards D, either is dangerous). And you follow your beliefs so you don't make the same mistakes he does.
Not only did I follow my beliefs by staying in the M, I followed them through the divorce process. If you read my update on my thread from 9/2 or thereabouts (in the "surviving the big D" forum) you'll get a good picture of how that benefited me. While I couldn't save my M, I am so so so proud of how I handled my sitch, and the life I have for myself as a result. Check it out if you can, it will be a way for you to get to know me a bit better and I think it demonstrated what I'm talking about pretty well.
Keep posting and take care.
I found out he met what he calls "the hottest chick he's ever met" yesterday and she invited him to join her out at the bars for her 21st birthday. She was too drunk and went home before he even got there, but that doesn't change that he "couldn't calm down" all day after he talked to her.
Also, he apparently felt the need to go on Facebook and untag himself in every picture of us together going back years...
Well, this feels like he's just really really done with me.
Wow, sounds like she's a real prize.
My DB coach told me once that when someone does something TO you in an attempt to make you feel a certain way, you can tell what their motivation is based on how what they do makes you feel. This seems counter intuitive because we're told not to mind read, but my DB coach said that this only applies if the person is deliberately trying to get a reaction from you, and if they are intimate with you emotionally. So here's the grid:
If you feel POWERLESS, they feel POWERLESS and are trying to assert control over the situation.
If you feel INADEQUATE, they also feel INADEQUATE and are trying to bolster their confidence.
If you feel HURT, they are feeling VENGEFUL at some pain they feel you've caused them.
If you feel IRRITATED, they feel NEGLECTED and are vying for your attention.
So- did he show this off to you? Did he do this in a way that you would find out? If so, how did you feel? What is he trying to accomplish?
Doesn't sound to me like someone that is emotionally detached. Sounds like a game from someone trying to act like they're in control when they're tied more deeply then they even realize, have no idea the consequences of their actions, and won't really know their true values until they get some hard wake up calls down the road and have to make some real decisions.
Don't try to manufacture his 'rock bottom', and don't play games back. But don't you dare give up csabo. Believe none of what he says and half of what he does. Got it?
Thanks, Zues. That's the thing, though...I know I shouldn't have, but I only found out because I snooped. I saw that he wasn't tagged in any photos with me anymore, and so I got curious and I snooped. He didn't say anything to me about it, but he was sure talking to his friends and coworkers about her.
Well, then, let me give you one other suggestion that might help you take this less personally.
Replace the words "other woman" with "crystal meth".
He was at the bar and excited that he met someone that had some crystal meth. He wanted to do some crystal meth but he didn't get the chance. He is now convinced crystal meth will make him happy and is talking to his friends about crystal meth.
OK, now let's look at that...does that have anything to do with you? Is meth more attractive or desirable? Of course not.
Bottom line, he is in pain and is desperately grasping at things he thinks will make him feel differently. I hope this helps protect what's left of your worth. All types of people become addicts, it doesn't mean their spouse was inferior. Hang in.
That does help to look at it that way. You don't think it's just that he's done with me? I know you don't know him, only what I say here, but I'm trying to be honest and fair in what I write.
It's just, in this analogy where the other woman is crystal meth I feel like I'm pot. Like, he started with me and then I wasn't doing it for him anymore so he went to something stronger or more exciting or whathaveyou.
I'm about ready to call him out on untagging himself in all of our photos...going all the way back 9 years!! and kick him out of the house.
Like, what, he's just going to pretend I don't exist to all these other women he wants to date? He's ashamed of having been with me? That's intolerable. I feel so used if he's still going to live with me but he can't even be in photos with me on facebook from years ago.
No. You're part of the real world that he doesn't want to deal with right now.
I would recommend not having a big confrontation. There is zero chance he will see things your way. You see csabo, if someone can actually DO these things, they aren't going to suddenly feel bad about it when you call them out. If they were going to feel bad they would have before they did them. But instead he has a ton of rationalizations, justifications, and all kinds of other ways it's all your fault or no big deal. If you confront him you will only accomplish two things: 1) You will get to hear his recorded rationalizations, lies, and blame, just like pressing play on a recording, and 2) He will find ways to add your reaction to his list of reasons he has to leave, and just run further away.
Actions, not words. But no actions while you're emotional. If you start reacting impulsively due to pride, pain, or need to be in control, well, now you're acting like he is. Someone needs to keep their wits about them. Be a leader and act with the character you wish he had. If you can't do it, how do you expect him to?
You've got this c.
I don't know, it's not like I wouldn't notice that he was suddenly not tagged in any photos of us, maybe he did do it to try to push my buttons a little. I'm thinking he just didn't want the "hot chick" to see that he had recently been with someone else, but to go back all 9 years seems excessive. And time-consuming.
Thanks Zues. I really needed someone just now with this.
You're right, even if he felt bad he did it anyway so he didn't feel bad enough to not do it.
I've managed to keep calm around him so far, I'm not gonna blow it now.
I get it.
If he did think you'd notice he probably figured you'd feel the way you do, which is angry obviously, but because you have been deeply wounded. This may mean he wants to not only do what he wants, but to also defy you a bit, and get a little revenge. The subtext might be "See csabo, you don't get to control me anymore, if I can't get it with you I can get it somewhere else, that's what you get for neglecting me!" In a way this is just an evolution of a fight you've probably had many times in your M.
Like DB says, the best thing to do sometimes is 'do something different'. By not responding the way he expects, or that you are naturally inclined, you give the chance to achieve a different result.
Try to remember that beneath all of this your spouse is simply in pain beyond his ability to cope. That doesn't mean you don't establish boundaries to protect yourself. But do continue to focus on you, your 180s, your reactions, and your ability to do what's right even when you don't always feel like it. So far so good.
I wanted to check in this morning, but I don't know what to say.
Doing family portraits today with me and my dog, so I can give pictures to my family so they don't have to have pictures of me and H still. It should be fun.
Talked to H a little this morning before he went to his magic card tournament, about nothing really. He seems a little less friendly with me these past few weeks, but I've been trying to remain happy and positive around him while maintaining a sort of noncommittal distance. He was talking a bit about his magic tournament and I smiled and said have fun before he left, but I was doing my own thing and not dropping everything to pay attention to him.
He feels further from me now, I kinda miss the mixed signals. DB coach said he was "testing" how he felt with the still spending time with me and being a little affectionate. I'm worried I "failed" his tests and he's moving away from me. I'm trying to be patient with him and let him go on his own journey.
He's not really "cheating" on me, but he is experimenting with other women. I don't think he'll be able to find what will satisfy him any time soon, and maybe then he will realize that our 9 years together DOES mean something. But I have to be prepared for the possibility that will find something and not come back.
One day at a time. Like I said before, I've got at least 4 more months, I intend to make the most of them.
Thanks for reading and giving feedback, everyone. I'm sad anyone has to be here but glad that such a supportive place exists for those of us that do unfortunately have reason to find ourselves here.
I've been thinking about if I should have him move out of the house or not. He said he would, so I don't expect a fight over it. We just see so little of each other as it is. Plus, we play D&D every weekend at his friend's place and I believe that where he would move if I had him move out. I don't know how awkward it would be to see him at "his" place once a week.
Are you considering this because you're hopeless for the marriage?
Are you considering this because you're tired of being in pain and think this will bring an end to your suffering more quickly?
Or are you considering this because you truly believe this is the right step to take to best stand by your marriage?
IMHO anything you do within the first 60-90 days is probably rushed. You are too emotionally unstable to make life changing decisions. I compare it to thinking you can still drive after having just a few. I'd encourage you to slow down.
Yes, you can stand up for your boundaries at some point. Yes, there will be a day for action. But this seems very fast to me.
Can you get a DB coach? I'd highly recommend one. And until you do, I would be willing to bet they'd say the same thing I'm telling you.
I don't know, all three? It's hard to know what to do. He just said it was nice how we each have the house to ourselves during the day, (I work am, he works pm) like...what, it's nice to not see me ever?
I have had one session with a DB coach, going to call to make the second tomorrow.
Scheduled my second DB coach session. Have to wait til Thursday but hopefully it will help again. My first session was great.
Just talked to H briefly before he went to class, we had a nice friendly chat and he was showing me his new computer and then he of course has to ask how the divorce paperwork is coming along. He's waiting on me to file my answer.
I didn't cry until he left, at least...
Talking to a guy friend of mine, he thinks H is hurting a lot and doesn't want me to see. Of course, he wouldn't. Just...gives me a little hope.
So, another piece of information I believe I forgot to mention previously... towards the end of July there was a night H and I had both been drinking a little bit and we had sex. The next day he said it was good, but that he lacked an emotional connection, so it was like "another nail in the coffin" for him. But after that he was still showing signs of affection/mixed signals so I'm not sure what to think, I guess. My guy friend said the physical parts die later than the emotional parts and that he doesn't think H will change his mind.
H mentioned the house was looking really nice and that maybe we could have company over, and I said I was thinking of throwing myself a birthday party at the end of next month, and he got kinda excited and said we could do a Halloween party and that he would help me move around some of the heavier things to clean the house up even more for it.
This could be a good opportunity to spend time with him and let him see me being fun and happy and social.
Hey c, I think your last post is spot on. You're handling things well. Upbeat, but casual and with no expectations. Perfect.
Dr. Joy Browne frequently referred to just acting 'cheerful and stupid' in different situations. This is such good advice. Just be happy, and oblivious to inconsistencies about him talking like you are together when you're not, or if he says something one day and doesn't follow through the next, none of that registers. You're just happy and don't see an issue. Perfect.
PS- I wish others would post on your thread. I didn't really get why until I realized you haven't been posting much on others' threads. Usually when you post replies to other people they'll read up on you and some will start following you. I'm sick of hearing my own voice but wanted to give you a shout out!
Oh, okay. I just don't really know what to say to other people since I'm so new here myself but thanks for the advice. I was wondering why nobody was really posting on my thread too.
It's been really hard lately, since I've stopped getting the tiny bits of affection and mixed signals from him. I feel like we took a step backwards somehow.
About to have my second phone session with DB coach!! Hoping it goes as well as the first one, that I can get some reassurance that all is not lost and some good advice on where to go from here.
Good luck with phone session DB!
Oh, okay. I just don't really know what to say to other people since I'm so new here myself but thanks for the advice. I was wondering why nobody was really posting on my thread too.
Just a note to say "hi" or a "you're doing great!" will brighten a person's day. Some of us don't need extra advice, we just need to know that somebody is out there and cares.
BTW - "hi" - I haven't read up on your situation other than your first post but I hope everything works out for you. You've got a lot going for you. Have you read the 5 Love Languages?
Hi Andrew! Thanks for posting, I will try to just pop in to say hi to more people. I haven't read it, but I'm a little familiar. I know physical touch is a big one for my H, and quality time is important to me.
Hi csabo,
Sorry you are here. You seem to be handling yourself very well. Just peaked at your sitch. I wanted to ask about your expectations for having a friendship with H? Is that only in hopes of reconciling the M? If he continues to pursue women and then starts talking about it, is this a friendship you can handle? Or want?
It just sounds terribly painful. I am years down the road from you (my H has been back for 1 1/2 years) but I know that I could not have handled friendship. I was so angry and hurt for what was happening that is felt fake to me to be friends. Secondly, the times I was friendly with him it seemed he was cake eating--he went off and did what he wanted and then continued to benefit from family time.
Our sitches our different I know. I just want you to stay true to your heart. It is perfectly okay to take a step back and focus on you. If he asks you why, you can even tell him you don't want a friendship right now, you married him for a marriage. Look he is trying to divorce you, it's okay to be hurt and angry. In my sitch it wasnt until H moved out and experienced the loss of me that he realized what a mistake it was!
Blu
Hi Blu, thanks for the advice.
For now, being friends is to try to have positive interactions with him to reconcile. No, I don't think I could handle him with other women if/when that time comes.
That's what I was wondering about maybe having him or me move out, it seems like now he gets a wife at home to care for the house work and pets but still gets to live like a single frat boy again. It isn't fair, and he isn't appreciating me or missing me. He wants to live in our house with me for the next 2 years while he's in grad school. Just feels like hes taking advantage of me this way.
I'm sure he felt it wasn't fair you got to live the married life while he was in a dark depression from feeling neglected, diminished, and misunderstood. I'm sure he felt quite taken advantage of. If you are going to keep score or use this as a reason to ask him to leave, I don't see how you are doing anything different than he did when he felt this way and decided to walk.
This is your marriage. Marriages that last 50 years have difficulty in them. You'll need to lose the score card and the idea of a quick fix. Doesn't mean you have no boundaries, but this idea of asking him to leave has got to go. What did DB Coach say about throwing him out? They couldn't be behind this, right?
My DB Coach told me that while my lack of voice wasn't a model for how a future relationship may work, and that clearly there would be a time for me to voice my feelings and needs, during this crisis wasn't the time.
How are your 180s coming along? Anything you're doing to make H feel like he could be fulfilled in a marriage with you?
Hi Blu, thanks for the advice.
For now, being friends is to try to have positive interactions with him to reconcile. No, I don't think I could handle him with other women if/when that time comes.
That's what I was wondering about maybe having him or me move out, it seems like now he gets a wife at home to care for the house work and pets but still gets to live like a single frat boy again. It isn't fair, and he isn't appreciating me or missing me. He wants to live in our house with me for the next 2 years while he's in grad school. Just feels like hes taking advantage of me this way.
(((csabo))) This is so hard. Do you have a support system in place right now? Do you have a IC or friends and family to help you through this?
This is your life and your M, so you need to think about what is comfortable for you. If your only goal of friendship is to win him back, and that doesn't work, then what will this "friendship" look like? Something to really think about.
I don't think most women would want to live with their H as a roommate while he is off pursing other women and actively cheating. Then he comes home and has the benefit of hanging out with W, a home, perhaps her cooking, cleaning, and paying bills? And you will support him for 2 years in grad school while he is acting like a single man but still married to you? Are you okay with that?
Keep in mind that when you come here, you are going to get different opinions and advice. We have all had different things work and not work in our own sitches, but ultimately if has to feel right to you. There is another poster here who got advice from her DB coach to have more of a friendship with her H, and it created too much pain and anxiety for her as he had just picked up and left her and her daughter. It only took a week for her to realize how hard that would be.
Perhaps your DB coach knows things that we do not. What else can you share with us? Perhaps the goals with a WAH are different than a WH? I am no expert but I do know as a woman who had an H that DID come back, he had to move out and experience life without me to see what he was losing. I believe that women need to be strong and draw firm boundaries to she H that we deserve respect if they want to be or live with us. There was no way that I could handle H living with me while he was with or pursuing OW. As soon as that was his reality, and he wasn't committed to me, he was out.
So please, please think about what is comfortable for YOU! Hopefully a vet can chime in so you can get some better perspectives.
Blu
Zues- I'm not "keeping score". It's not about punishing him for whatever. He's not missing me, he's having his cake and eating it too, and I don't see how that's going to make him want to come back either.
I'm working on the 180s. I'm trying to be a good listener when he talks to me, but not be too readily available.
Blu- So far, it's not bothered me too much when he talks about pursuing other women, as it's been little things that aren't going anywhere. As soon as he gets something a little more serious, I think I'll have to tell him it's too hard to stay friends. But for now, I am still benefiting a little from trying to remain friends. Or, I was...
I'm cleaning, but cook only for myself and he's paying rent/bills. He's still working full-time and supporting himself through grad school.
I feel already that he is not respecting my boundaries, as I told him that he was not to bring other women here. I just found out, as I had been planning on staying at a friends tonight, that he told his friend he has the house to himself for the night so he cleaned the house and especially his room, so I feel that he thinks he can bring some other woman back here while I am gone.
I'm at a loss. I don't know what else to do. I've GAL'ed, I'e 180'ed, he doesn't seem interested in me and he seems VERY interested in other women. It's so hard.
I feel like the success stories are from wayward spouses coming back. Do walkaway spouses ever return?
H messaged his friend that tonight would be a good night to "go hunting" and asked if he could hypothetically "bang a bar skank" in his guest room.
And of course, this person who was supposed to be my friend too, says yes.
So, since our anniversary September 7th, he'd been being more distant. I went out of town over the weekend. Last night and this afternoon, he texted me just friendly little funny messages. One was at 9 pm saying he was tired already and felt old and the other was a little comic about introverted people that he said made him think of me.
I know it was just two little nothing messages but it felt good that he was obviously thinking of me and choosing to talk to me and be friendly, especially after the last few weeks of cold/distance.
So I discovered the 9 pm feeling old text he sent me was when he was at the bar where all the college kids go. I believe he went there looking for the "hot chick" he met last week. So I find it interesting that while he was out "hunting" for "bar skanks" at a college age bar, he felt too old to be there, out of place maybe or like he didn't belong, and in that time thought of me enough to try to connect with me a little.
He stayed at that bar for 2 hours still, would have been better if he realized he was making a mistake and left, but he stayed.
I'm not sure what it may mean, if anything, but I'm trying to see it as a positive sign he is still thinking of me even when he's out supposedly wanting other women.
Filed my answer today. It really hurt when I wrote that I wanted my last name changed back to my maiden name. I don't, but it's probably better that I change it. I also put that I wanted spousal support. I hope he's not going to get angry about it.
Just out of curiosity, what's the rationale behind asking for spousal support?
Well, it's kind of the same rationale behind him leaving me, haha. I have depression/anxiety and have a hard time getting/keeping employment. I do currently have a job, just started a few months ago, and I'm certainly not going to try to lose it, especially now, but as winter comes and with the stress of the divorce, and with my history, I'm just not sure how long I'll have this job or how well I'll be able to support myself after the divorce is finalized.
Ah. I didn't realize it worked like that.
((Csabo))
Found out my uncle died last night. I sent H a text to let him know, but that's all. I stayed with friends and didn't ask him for comfort. Which, I guess he didn't go home until 4:30 am anyway so I guess he wasn't planning on coming home to check on me. He messaged me when he did get home to say he hoped i was okay.
I'm sorry about your uncle.