http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2680886#Post2680886^^^^^^^^^^^^^Link to my old thread
My old thread ended with me having some R talk and losing my cool a little bit I thought. But actually when we discussed it the next morning W said that she was impressed that I walked away instead of continuing which would have led to an argument.
I am trying to have patience as everything is the R is good except that there isn't any sex and we are still in separate bedrooms. Other than that things are actually really good.
Her first semester of school will be over Monday so it will be interesting to see how her focus shifts.
I am seeing IC on Wednesday and we have MC on Thursday.
I am thinking about bringing up being back in MBR. I would like to have a goal to be in same bedroom by the time S starts school on August 11
The only reason why I want this is to feel like we are moving forward. But I don't want to push the issue either. I was going to bring it up in IC before MC on Thursday and go from there
When your LL is physical touch, you're going to get frustrated. PT is def my LL too. But if you're happy about where you're going, you've just gotta grin and bear it. Because, what's the alternative right?
It is really good though that she was impressed by your calmness and quelling a potential argument. That's exactly what I need to learn to do. I think it would help me immensely from a personal standpoint, as anger causes me severe stress and I can't think straight.
I'd talk about moving back into MBR before PT. Easy to say right?! But you can't put the cart before the horse....
Good luck to you, I'm rooting for you!!
Yep. That is a tough thing. It's not just about the sex to me. Holding hands, cuddling, back rubs, little slap on the behind, hugs, and kissing are all things that just make me feel close and wanted. The problem is of the 5 LL's this would be number 5 for my wife. She just has never been a "touchy feely" person. She was when we first started dating of course for the first 6 months when things were "hot and heavy"
I can't even remember the last time I kissed my W. Not a peck, but actually passionately kissed her. Maybe once in the last 5 years. She finds kissing gross. She cringes when people try to hug her.
I will say that when things were really good she was at least trying. That's why I know I have to be patient with this. Because unfortunately my verbal abusive and controlling ways really shut her down from me.
This is why I am willing to take the first steps. But at some point for us to have a happy marriage she is going to have to compromise on some things as well or we will never work.
And I have fully accepted that that may be the case, but will try everything before I just walk away
I used to love it when she'd just put her hand on my back and drag it across while she walked by. When she'd touch my head (I shave it bald, it feels really good when touched!), put her hand on my leg while I drove, etc etc. I agree, it would probably be 4th on WW's list. She finds anything other than a peck gross, unless she's REALLY in the mood to fool around. And yeah, she hates hugs.
I think, like Cnut, your old lady is trying to compromise. It sounds like from what you say she's taking baby steps on PT, but if you push she's likely to withhold and things will stagnate. I'd go with movement back into MBR, I think that's a nice compromise....but feels like so little to us PTers lol
I haven't posted in a few days. Just kind of been laying low.
I had an IC appointment that went well on Wednesday. We discussed how things were going in my life and how I've really opened up about my verbally abusive and controlling ways. I even sent my dad an email about it and sent him a copy of the book I read. He was very receptive. I talked to my IC about how things are going so well other than being in separate bedrooms and lack of PT. She said that I need to remember where things were a couple months ago and compare them to now. That it's still going to take time. I told her that I would like to be back in MBR by the time S starts school which is on August 11th. She said that she thought I should bring that up as a goal in MC. And that when I brought it up to just let W know that it's about moving forward, not about PT or sex.
We went to MC yesterday. It went well. W said she is noticing a difference, but is still hyperfocused on her school, our son, and her mom. She is compartmentalizing everything. I said that I have noticed how much she has on her plate and that my goal right now is to try and make it easier. This is a complete 180 for me! I was always adding to the stress. She pointed out a few examples. How I backed her up against a neighbor and took her side. That we are able to communicate when we are mad at each other and what we are mad about. That when she sees my name pop up on her phone that she doesn't get anxiety and start getting stressed.
Overall it was very good MC session, but I never brought up being back in MBR by August 11th. In the end I don't know why I didn't bring it up. Maybe I was afraid of her reaction. Maybe I am hoping she will bring it up and request that. In any event it didn't get brought up, but I plan to in the next MC session.
Fast forward to last night. We had people over. W and I were getting along all night. Joking, drinking wine, just having fun
Later on after everyone left she laid on the couch. She put her feet on my lap, something she hasn't done in a long time. I ended up giving her a foot and calf massage. Too which she was very receptive and didn't pull away at all.
After that she went and took a bath and then we watched some shows together in the MBR. But in the end I went back to the guest bedroom.
All in all I definitely think things are headed in the right direction. It's just having the patience. Like me and my IC discussed, I am giving a lot and my love tank is not being refilled. In the end that is what can cause resentment and anger. I told IC that I am done putting "dates" on things as far as staying or leaving. I am not going to live in a sexless marriage, but things continue to be headed in the right direction so I am not going to define it either
Hey there...memba me?
You've been at this for some time, my friend. It's hard, yea? Really hard.
So, it seems to me, that you want to know without a single doubt that you did all you could.
That requires you to dig in when it gets tough. She needs to know, without a single doubt, that your changes are real. She needs to know that things arent going to change again.
I know that it is very difficult at times for you. But I also know what you are made of, C. I know that you have hung in there for a long while.
You will know when you have had enough. You arent there yet.
You said you werent going to put dates on things..yet you want her back in the MB by Aug. 11th. So, which is it?
Continue showing her who you are becoming. Continue becoming the best version of you....for you. Put the focus on you and your child and try not to look at what you need to happen and when. Just keep moving forward.
You got this.
uRworthy!! How could I forget you my friend:)
I'm so glad to hear from you. I've quoted you a few times on others threads.
Especially this one:
"Whether you worry or not has no effect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can"
"Trying to understand the "crazy" is never gonna pay off for you..
Try to accept the the new reality of what is happening around you, and not let you mind wander to the land of "what ifs" and "whys"
There are a lot of scary creatures that live there...
What she is doing, doesn't make you better, or her worse, it is what it is...
It doesn't mean it always has to be this way..."
You were so helpful my first time around here and really taught me the value of patience. And here you are again to remind me:)
I know you are right. She wants to see lasting change. I thought I had changed the things I needed to the last time around except now I realize that I didn't know the true problem I had. Now I know. It's like I can see clearly now.
She is still skeptical, but is definitely noticing changes
Now that I think about it, I'm thinking maybe that's why I didn't bring it up in MC because I don't really want to put any time stamps on anything right now
We will be staying in the MBR together tomorrow night though. We have guest coming in town. So this will be a little test run I guess
So glad you dropped by uRworthy!!
Hi, C. I am honored that you have remembered my words.
It's so hard to have patience. It's like you know in your head who you could be and what this marriage could be and you just want to get to that.
But the thing is that this all needs to be done slowly. Because when it is done slowly, with intent and purpose and commitment, it builds a strong foundation. When you have that, it can handle the ebbs and flow and challenges that relationships bring.
If you rush it before either of you are truly ready, the foundation cannot weather it.
Get good with you. Get to where you know longer have to question whether you have changed. When you know deep in your soul that who you are is real. The rest will follow.
The more you try to push things...the more she will try to push back. Leave her to figure her stuff out.
Yep. That is a tough thing. It's not just about the sex to me. Holding hands, cuddling, back rubs, little slap on the behind, hugs, and kissing are all things that just make me feel close and wanted. The problem is of the 5 LL's this would be number 5 for my wife. She just has never been a "touchy feely" person. She was when we first started dating of course for the first 6 months when things were "hot and heavy"
I can't even remember the last time I kissed my W. Not a peck, but actually passionately kissed her. Maybe once in the last 5 years. She finds kissing gross. She cringes when people try to hug her.
Reading this made me very sad. I was talking to another person I met on this board years ago last night. We're both single now, and were both commenting on the fact that when you get married the first time it's really so hard to evaluate what you're getting into.
We have both found through dating that relationships are SO much easier if you start out with someone with the same LL and roughly the same sex drive.
Those two differences create *so much* pain and frustration in a long term relationship on both sides. It is simply much easier to give what you like to receive because you fully understand it and why it's valuable.
Let's fast forward 2 years and pretend you're back in the master bedroom, you're having some kind of sex life again.
Your W will never be a "touchy feely" person. She may never like kissing. I don't know how well your sex drives are matched, but based on what you've described there seems to be at least some awkwardness there on your W's side.
These things are going to bother you on an ongoing basis.
Could your W work on these things for your benefit to make the relationship better? Yes
Will she be motivated to do so? Probably not, because to her, and from her perspective, nothing is really broken other than your failure to accept how she is.
This is what is so difficult about your situation from my perspective. You want to get back into the MBR, you want to resume a sex life, you want to save your marriage! You, my friend, are highly motivated.
Your W, on the other hand, seems to have one foot out. She's telling you directly that all the other things going on in her life take priority over you and your needs.
When she's telling you that directly, where is she going to find motivation to care about what you want and what you need?
The difference between her "WANTING to come back" versus "accepting a gradual return to the prior status quo" is monumental in its significance. In the latter case she's never really fully bought in. In the latter case she's not motivated to make any changes for your benefit, or to prioritize your needs. Her motivation will be to do the absolute minimum she believes she needs to do to preserve the relationship until she decides she no longer wants to be in it.
That is why I recommended moving out and giving each other some space. I still truly believe very strongly that will be the best long-term strategy for you to have a happy marriage with your wife. It will hurt like hell in the short term, and it will feel "wrong" in many ways, but I think it's the shortest path to what *you* really want.
Acc
Yes uRworthy it is very hard to have patience. And I agree this needs to be done slowly this time around. I think we really rushed back into things last time and it didn't get to root of the problems. I know I have to be "good" with me first of foremost or this will not work, nor will any other R in the future, if I don't. I am very thankful that you have showed back up with my patience:)
Acc,
I completely understand and hear everything you are saying. It has me worried as well. It's why I question myself in this marriage a lot over the last 4 or 5 months. Its the reason I was contemplating walking out myself a few months ago. I then started to realize that she had shut herself down emotionally to me which then led to the shutting me down physically as well.
I don't think W will ever have my sex drive. It's something you either have or you don't. She also won't ever me in to "making out" or hand holding constantly. But I am ok with that as long as there is an effort. And that's the thing Acc, for about a 3 or 4 month stretch last year I saw what could have been. She was putting in the effort even though it isn't her LL. I don't expect her to ever put that first, but as long is she is trying is what I need. She would kiss me goodbye before I left, hug me when I got home. We were having great sex at least once a week.
There are so many other things that she does that makes me happy that as long as she is meeting me in the middle then I can be ok with that.
I do believe she had a foot out the door, so did I.
But I think she is now sticking her toe back in slowly.
She just finished her first semester of school today. So I am really going to pay attention the next month.
I agree with you on the moving out aspect if I don't see things continue to change. But overall they seem to be heady in the right direction.
We had some out of town guests last night so I stayed in MBR.
I didn't initiate anything, but noticed she got closer to me when I got in bed.
Everything I have read on verbal abuse seems to be playing out. It's just going to take time on my part.
I appreciate the advice as always and I see a lot of it in my situation.
The W passed her first semester of paramedic school yesterday
Took her and son to nice steakhouse to celebrate.
I must say it does feel like a new relationship is forming. One were I ask questions and I genuinely enjoy hearing what she has to say.
Total 180 for me as use to just dominate the whole conversation
It has been good in that regard
cbtdad, I follow along silently and there is so much I want to say to you on here that relates to a sitch of someone close to me right now, but I can't.
I will tell you this: no matter what the outcome, you will be a better man for it. You could do everything right for a long period of time, and it still may not work or yield the results you hope for. But know you will be a better man for it.
I'm rooting for you
Thanks Ginger!
I wish you could share more with me or elaborate more on that other sitch. I understand though
For me its taking a lot of patience to not just give up and move on. I get very frustrated at times because it seems like things are going great in a marriage of what could be. Then other times I feel like it will never be what I want. My problem has always been that I want immediate results. I've always lacked patience and have been a selfish and controlling person.
I've only been in this situation for 3 months. For vets on this board they would say that is nothing. For me it feels like an eternity. More than anything now I am learning to be happy for me. Learning that I can't control anyone or anything, but my actions and attitude.
We are taking our S to Universal for a couple days this weekend and I look forward to the good times with him. I actually I am looking forward to the times with her as well.
it will be a nice break from everything else going on in our lives right now
Hey Cbdad, I know what you mean about wanting things to happen faster....I have been in limbo for 5 months....but just recently started DBing so I have a long haul I think....I have never thought about giving up, I get discouraged but I know what our lives can be like if we get through this...it helps that I am a very very patient person...it doesn't help that my closest friends are not..haha.....hope you have a good time at Universal!!
Sounds like a fun weekend in store!!
I'm not a patient person either. When I do something, I want to see the fruits of it or at least some buds. Lol. I've become much more patient since I became a Dad, but this situation is a bit different! I'm celebrating the baby steps though.
Just listening has become something new for me. Obviously, the chances I get are few and far between but it's a huge 180 where I just let her talk about whatever problem is on her mind. Not thinking, not offering ideas or solutions. Just listening. My therapist and every book I've read say women feel loved when you just sit and listen.
Enjoy the trip!!
First, 3 months is a very short period of time:) you certainly need patience.
I read that there was self-admitted emotional abuse. I think it is commendable you recognize it and are doing what you can for yourself and for your family to change things around. However, I have learned that you could be the most perfect husband NOW and do everything right, but scars can be left in the area of intimacy. Ones that she will have to work very hard to overcome and you will have to be ridiculously patient.
She may over come them. She may not. She may admit you are a wonderful husband and are doing it all right, but getting back in the intimacy area may still have a huge block up for her right now, and now because of anything you are doing wrong right now. In my personal experience, I thought I had a very low sex drive. I dreaded it. I dutifully did it, not as much as he would pleased, but often enough. But it wasn't enjoyable. Because criticism out of bedroom made me so nervous to be in my most vulnerable state with him. Post D, it turns out I am pretty high drive and I love it (TMI, sorry) He never bothered to address any of this, so it never changed. You are addressing it, which is great. But it may be a while before she could settle in there again.
I read on C-nut's thread about the cooking. I want to relate to that for a min. My ex was emotionally abusive. he would criticize everything I do, down to my cooking, of course. I began to get bad anxiety when preparing meal and when he sat down to eat it. I figured it would be better if I just left most of the cooking to him because I was literally freaking out. I couldn't go to the grocery store without him because I feared hearing him b*tch about how I bought the wrong brand of something. That being said, the fact she is cooking more now is a really good sign. She is getting more comfortable in that area which shows she believes a change in you.
Stay patient and stay consistent. I can imagine I is very very hard, especially being an affectionate person. PT is my love language too (and I'm going without, so I feel ya). But you seem very dedicated to your wife and child.
Enjoy universal and enjoy the time with the both of them, without any expectations.
Ginger I can not thank you enough for sharing your insight with me. It's taking some time, but these are the types of things you are sharing that my W is starting to open up about in MC.
She told me how I would criticize her for getting the wrong toilet paper. She said, "who does that"
She that she would get anxiety when she heard me pull up to the house or when my name popped up on her phone. Because she was thinking, "great what did I do wrong now?"
I remember a few months back I started realizing that I had control and trust issues that I couldn't explain. More than just not being trusting from our first separation a few years ago.
I started doing research. I came across a book called "The Verbally Abusive Man: Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans
When I saw the title I figured it would give me a point of view from my W's side of things. WOW!!! It knocked me upside the head and completely opened my eyes. It talked about doing things subconsciously and not even realizing what you were doing. That you create a "dream woman". How you define them at every turn. That was me. But you know what. It talked about how a man can change. How he can rewire his brain. I know it's gonna take time. But realizing that this a marathon and not a sprint helps me keep going everyday. The patience I am having to have is not getting what I want out of the marriage right now. Which is PT!!
You hit on that exactly. I do know its gonna take time for her to trust me emotionally therefore take time to build up intimacy, but it still gets frustrating.
Like I told Accuray. The reason I have faith for the future is I've seen what it can be when things are going well. She does enjoy it and ask for it when times are good.
I just need to stay the path and continue to work on me and what I want myself to be for the future.
More than anything else, I do not want what I learned to be passed on to my S
That is my number one goal
Thanks again Ginger. Any other advice you have from your experience would be greatly appreciated
I'm glad I could be of help:) Honestly, reading how you recognized what you were doing and have taken a true initiative to fix it is really amazing and made me smile. ESPECIALLY because as you said, you don't want to model those behaviors for your S. My ex, unfortunately is a narcissist, and sees nothing wrong in his behaviors and it a "too bad if you don't like it" kind of guy. And he now treats our poor D8 the same way and she is terrified to talk to her father about it and it causes lots of stress.
Build a space of comfort for her. Continue to show her respect as a partner and a mother. Compliment often, but not overboard. And most of all..........
When you do show compliment or appreciation, please do not get frustrated when you don't get what you would like in return. I can only give you an example of what I mean..... My ex was nice when he wanted something. He rarely did anything just for me, there had to be something in return. My back in always sore from my job and I just wanted him to rub my shoulders sometimes. Shoulder rub= sex in return. He refused to rub my shoulders unless he was getting something out of it. That is not only pressure, it made me feel like I had to always make myself worthy of anything I ever had to receive.
A sexless marriage is not for me either. I would imagine she feels like she might be hurting you too when she turns you down. But I have a feeling she wants to get there. I just think it's going to take time. She may come to you one day and say "sorry, I just can't be intimate" or she may go be able to with consistency. But it will be for you to engage and decide if its really ever going to happen or if you are told it isn't going to happen, what you want to do from there. But 3 months in, I don't think you really have to think about that now. But asking for intimacy is a great sign.
I've got hopes for you. Like I said earlier, if anything, youll be a better man for it, and there should never, ever be any regrets there, especially when it comes to your S
Ginger I am happy that I was able to help you smile. It wasn't easy accepting the reality that I have been defining my W for so long. I must say it is very weird. I see my W completely different now. I see her as an individual. Someone who has her own wants and needs. Someone who doesn't just do things to make me happy or make me upset. Its not all about me!!
Because of that I have learned to do things for her without expecting anything in return like you said.
I am doing my best to not have any expectations for the long term. Overall there is no question that things look good.
She texts me throughout the day, sends funny jokes, tells me important things to her(both happy and angry), wants to do things together, opens up with me about things that are bothering her, even is looking at houses for "us" in the future
One of the things Ive learned now is that I just need to listen. I use to interrupt and try and "fix" everything. Now I realize she just wants someone to listen to her.
Day by day I learn more. That's what I will continue to do
CBT I looked up that book, thinking I might have something in common with you there. However, I looked up the reviews on Amazon and saw a bunch of divorced women crowing about how the author convinced them to divorce. Eek!
I guess I have looked at her more as W and Mother rather than an individual sometimes, but I didn't start getting more controlling until she was engaging in behaviors that were destructive and inappropriate. I'm still reading about Mars/Venus and my therapist recommended Gottman so I've got plenty of reading to do!
As for listening, I too was Mr Fix it. I still don't get it lol. If you'll just listen to what I'm telling you, you'll no longer have the problem ha. Seriously though, I've started to just listen as well. No commentary, solutions or anything just be there, pay close attention and follow along. It makes women feel loved. Huge 180 for me.
Just got back this morning from Universal in Orlando. Back at work already.
Nothing big to report or anything.
The trip went really well all together. Had a few moments when I tried to 180 compared to things I use to do on trips. I really enjoyed the time with my S the most. the smile on his face at all these rides were great.
They are leaving to go visit MIL for 6 days tomorrow so it will just be me for that time. I am looking forward to it
I plan on getting some things dome around the house and going to hang out with some friends
I just had a little setback with the W
Her and son are out of town visiting ML. She called to tell me a story about taking her mom to a jewelry store because her mom wanted a new watch. She proceeds to tell me that she complimented her mom on how much she likes the watch so her mom bought her one. We are talking about a 10k watch. I basically was kind of jerk about it. I said, "that must be nice, maybe that could have gone to help with S dentist or something else. Considering I just spent 3k for us to go to Universal for 3 days and didn't even get a thank you. Bye"
I called her back a minute after I hung up on her and apologized for handling it the way that I did. I told her my frustration that I feel like I bust my a$$ to make a good living and do things, but I don't get appreciated and taking for granted.
W comes from a very well to do family. Money doesn't mean much to her. She has never wanted for anything.
I could tell she was still upset.
I ended up texting her:
cbtdad: I feel like we are so off on communication right now. I am burying some feelings which isn't good for me. I'm happy your mom bought you a nice a gift and I know that means a lot to you. Didn't mean to come off as a jerk and know I could have handled it better
W: Yes well I'm kinda blindsided by all of this bc I thought it was all good but thanks
cbtdad: It is fine. I like progress we are making. This is not something that needs to ne discussed right now and can wait to MC. I just wanted you to know that my reaction wasn't about the gift and that I understand its special coming from your mom right now
W: I felt like it was just a thank you from her. And wanted to share that with you
cbtdad: I understand that and that's why I'm apologizing. I'm happy you are able to share those things with me. That's why I called back right away and apologized because I didn't like how I handled that
I am just going to wait to MC and bring up the things that are building up
I've come to realize that "words of appreciation" is my second LL
PT being first
So when I feel like I am not getting either one then my love tank becomes empty and I start getting an attitude
Although I will say the PT is picking up and she is comfortable being naked in front of me again
Obviously, being able to ride horses the woman has never had to worry about money! That stuff is outrageously expensive. But I think you handled that well. Not letting it fester seems like it was important
I'm pretty sure that my W LL is Acts of Service, but if she had a 2nd one I think it would be Words of Appreciation.
It's good your W is sharing fairly mundane things with you, that's a great sign of opening up. Of course, a 10k watch isn't THAT mundane lol. The increased PT and her choosing to be vulnerable by showing you her body is a definite positive.
Hope MC goes well!
So my wife told me she is going to write her mom a check for 1500 dollars
Well I know that gonna come out of my main account.
I told her I wasn't on board with that because of principle.
She said she knows her mom doesn't need the money but it's principle.
Her mom loaned us 1500 dollars in 2010
But in 2011 she "sued" us because she slipped at our house and fell and didn't have health insurance at the time. She lost, but it still caused my insurance premiums to go up. I told my wife that she also just bought her a 10k watch and now I'm supposed to write a 1500 dollar check.
Her response was "whatever"
I sent her the following text:
"I'm sorry we disagree on this and everytime that happens you just say "whatever"
I'm not stressed about money. I'm stress about paying for everything like we are married couple but not really living in a marriage
I asked you to drop this over 3 times but you continue to come at me
I'm sorry that I don't feel the same way you do"
She didn't respond
I can tell and feel that I am getting frustrated.
I'm getting impatient, but I am sick of paying for everything in this "relationship"
Good thing I have DB coaching appointment in 15 minutes
I need it
Ok, my friend. You know I tells it like it is...so....
You need to get a handle on all the stuff thats building up inside you cuz it is starting to bubble over.
People like you and I dont get the whole here's a $10,000 watch because you like it kind of a thing. People like your wife...do. Neither of us is right or wrong in how we feel. It all has to do with perspective, right?
You feel as you do. They are your feelings and so they are valid to you. But...you need to start counting to 20 or something before you react to things. And you can say to her, I am going to call you right back, ok?
I can feel your frustration alllllll the way over here. So I can only imagine how she feels it.
I understand it some, too. But if your goal is a restored marriage, you need to change your outlook on some things. You need to pick your battles and what is really, really important.
Im thinking that the look on your son's face, some family time and making memories is a huge thank you, no?
This is what I have learned. I cant rely on someone else to make me validate and worthy. That has to come from deep inside me. That isnt to say that we shouldnt, in a relationship, let the other person know that we value and honor them. To me, it's having the expectations of when and where according to what I want, that causes problems.
Be loving, C. Be the man you want to be every single day. For you. Some days you will make it, some you wont. But that should always be the goal.
It's all the little things added up that matters. The small progress every day, the little changes that matter. That and who you are.
She has to figure herself out. You have to let her. Your job...is to work on you and take care of yourself and your son. That's all you have control of. THe rest....aint in your power.
Now, dont make me have to go all Brooklyn on you...ya hear?
I cant rely on someone else to make me validate and worthy.
Oops...should read..."I cant rely on someone else to make me feel validated and worthy."
Lol uRworthy I knew what you meant.
I should've my be doing things and then expecting a certain outcome that I'm gonna get. You are right. The enjoyment of the time I had with son was awesome. I even enjoyed the time with W. I think that's were I started to build up again because when we got home it was back to current "reality"
I still have flare ups like I did. But it's getting better and I need to remind myself that this is a process.
I'm taking the long road for a lasting marriage
Maybe it works maybe it doesn't
The reason that I haven't taken Accurays advice on moving out is because i believe that it would be a quick fix. It would change the underlying issues
I could be wrong, but my DB coach and IC agree with that
I think if I moved out and cut communication she would come running to me
But in the end that wouldn't solve all the problems
I need to work on me . Hopefully that pays off and then W works on herself when she sees the changes
Ever since that text I sent earlier she has been texting me all day
She actually sent a link on Facebook to me with he title "Turns out 'Happy wife equals happy life' is pretty dead on"
It was good a read
Glad she sent it
I know I need to just continue my journey and progress
How has your weekend been my friend?
Been really good
Funny. I was just thinking about you and your situation and was going to post this evening. I've been following just no posting this weekend
I'm driving
Will post when I get home
Its been a great few days to myself. I've done some reading. I'm rereading DR because I feel like it just sharpens my tools. I've had a great few days at work. Going to cook a nice ribeye for myself tonight. W doesn't come back till Tuesday so I've still got a couple days to myself.
It's been interesting why she has been gone. She is texting me constantly. She has even called a few times. She normally doesn't like to talk on the phone. She sent me a link on FB about Happy Wife happy Life. She made plans for us to go stay with her dad for a few days together next weekend.
One thing that was interesting was she text me today and said she had some gossip to tell me and that she wasn't sure if she wanted to share or not. She then called me to tell me.
She went to brunch with some old friends, all who in the "horse world"
During brunch it came up that her former best friend(the one that was constantly pushing D the first time around) slept with OM that my W was seeing when we were separated 3 and half years ago. This happened last year they told her, so it wasn't at the same time she was seeing him. They haven't spoke since we reconciled, but she just thought it was really funny.
Two things that really stick out to me during this phone call.
The first was that it didn't bother me at all hearing about this or her mentioning his name. I guess enough time has passed, but its weird it just doesn't get me upset like it use to.
Number two was really good to hear. And that was her telling me that she could have just kept on gossiping about it and all that stuff, but that it just doesn't seem healthy for her. This was big to hear. This is something that I've hoped for a while
Anyways, things seem to be really well. I had a great DB coach session on Friday afternoon. She said it seems like that I have made a lot of progress in the last month and that she was proud of me recognizing the things I need to do personally to become a better man and father. We talked about how that is for me and not for my wife. That's a big deal to me.
I almost feel like I have my best friend back in many ways.
That's when things are good with me and W. When there is a close friendship. So it's a good start, but this is a long journey
Nice update cbtdad, sounds like your having a good day... Enjoy it bud, you deserve good days...
So W is on the way back today. She and son will be home when I get home from work. Can't wait to see son. Kind of miss W, but not nearly as much as son.
She called me this morning and said she might pick up a shift tonight. I was kind of upset at that, but didn't say anything then.
Then earlier this afternoon I got a text from our neighbor
neighbor: Hi! I'm home, finally. W said she is going to work tonight and if you are not home when she leaves I will take son. Neighbor and I will take boys with us to have bday dinner and would love for you to join us
I sent my wife a copy of that text and said. "Guess you are working. Love when I find out this way(thumbs up emoji)
W: " I haven't set anything. I said "in case" to her
She sent me a copy of text neighbor
cbtdad: thumbs up emoji
W: roll eyes emoji and a bitmoji saying "GULP"
cbtdad: Whats gulp?
W: When you do that
cbtdad: Not sure what I did. Just gave thumbs up to what you sent me. I just would rather find out info from you about your schedule. Neighbors text to me sounded definite. Doesn't matter either way at this point
W: Yea you just stress me out sending that. It wasn't definite. I just set it all up.
And I cleared it with you first. I'll tell you when it's set
cbtdad: Not trying to stress you out. Just would be nice if you didn't want to work because you've been gone so long. But that's just not where we are at. It's all good
W: Yea I know. But I have to get my hours and then we will have two days of togetherness. Then the time in North Carolina so I didn't think it was a big deal
cbtdad: I understand. It's fine. Not trying to stress you out
W: Yea but you always act like its personal and I don't have a greater plan behind what I do
cbtdad: Yeah that's the part I understand. That its not personal
Doesn't mean I like it:) Two different things babe
I understand your reasoning is what I'm trying to say. I don't think it's personal. Doesn't mean I have to like it. that's why I'm saying didn't mean to stress you out(thumbs up emoji)
W: ok. Good. glad we get it now
So I do want W to want to come home and spend time with me. But I understand her reasoning for working tonight as well. I huess this could have been avoided had I just said I would like to spend time together tonight. But that's the problem I am in right now. To me trying to do that would have been more of the same behavior. Maybe come across as controlling. I also am starting to catch these emotions about things quicker, but not quick enough. But it is getting better
You were passive-aggressive, that's why she gulped. And you know you weren't just giving a thumbs up sign like you told her. It was more like a "thanks a lot for not telling me and telling the neighbor" I used to pretty passive aggressive out of frustration. I realize how I could have probably just been straight forward about what I was feeling and discussed it first.
You get it though. because when you did become straight forward in the conversation expressing your feelings, it lead to communication and it was great. You expressed you wanted to spend time together, and she let you know her reasoning was not a personal attack on you, and something she needed to do.
It ended well! Just try to skip the passive-aggressiveness when you can.
Thanks Ginger!
I know why I was giving her the "thumbs up" your right. I caught it a little too late. It's tough "rewiring" your brain. Like I said I've gotten much better and its a daily fight, but I now start to see it. Just sometimes still not quick enough.
thanks for stopping by. I always enjoy your input
Ginger rocks, right? She's a friend of mine. She tells it like it is. One of many reasons I like her. So...listen to her, ya hear?
So, ended ok, but rough start, yea?
As I said to you the other day, you need to count or something before responding, C. You have got to get that under control. You react first.
You keep trying to get her to act the way YOU want her to. You arent her, nor can you control her. You wanted her to want to be with you and when you thought she wouldnt be...you stomped your foot.
That could have been handled completely differently with an even better result.
So, whatcha gonna do to rein in those impulses. Because that isnt who you want to be..
Come on now...get to gettin..
uRworthy I am trying me best to control my reactions. I know I can't control my emotions, but the way I handle them is not what I want. You are dead on as usual and can feel myself getting "shorter" lately. I've got to control these things. It's just not what I want
I love having Ginger1 input on my thread. She is helping bring some knowledge to me from the other side
W did end up working last night. I've seen her a few times this morning
Not sure what it is, but I did feel "angry and snippy" around her at the moment
Im sure it will subside. Im gonna go for a run in a little while and clear my head
Anything going on with you today? You were supposed to have some quality time with the W today, right?
Hey RSG,
We did have ac couple days together.
We had a MC appointment yesterday. It went well. I brought up the MBR issue and she said she hasn't even thought about it. She said she did like the aspect of being able to spread out like a starfish and watch tv without worrying about waking me up. She said it in a jokingly way. We somehow got on the subject of my mom which somehow lead us talking about money and retirement.
Which is weird because we talk about all these future things together, but are still living in separate bedrooms.
She brought up the couple times I was "snippy" and said she closes down when that happens, but said that it shocks now when it happens because its rarely.
The MBR issue never got resolved. So last night after having people over I just went to guest bedroom and didn't say anything. Its a weird position for me to be in because I know I could push the issue and be in the MBR no problem, but don't wat to come off as controlling. I am going to approach this again next MC with the understanding that she is thinking about it
I don't know why, but its something Im not really pushing for.
I am honestly very comfortable in the guest room and sleep much better.
So maybe that's why
Hi cbtdad,
I read your sitch and there are some similarities to mine. Would you open to a private discussion? Let me know I can't seem to DM from this forum.
Thanks,
SmithyC
SmithyC - they don't allow person to person contact here. Probably for the best because many of us are in a pretty delicate place.
AndrewP - Thanks for the info. It makes perfect sense.
Sounds like things are going pretty well for you. Slow and steady wins the race. The tortoise and the hare and all.
You're doing well on the anger, it's nice to hear it's gone from a habit to something she's shocked by. Keep that up! I'm actually doing better with that too. W gave me the finger during dropoff today, and I just kinda shook my head....
So W and I are out of town at her dads house for a couple nights
Things have been going well as usual
We shared a bed and will do so again tonight
W talked to her dad about us looking at new houses and stuff in the future
She also discussed our ski trip in March
At this point I'm just getting to the point that I may just move back in MBR when we get back
Not even discuss it any further
Only reason I'm holding back at this point is I don't want it coming across at me "controlling" the environment
cbtdad - that really sounds positive. I'm happy for you in your progress. Have fun on your time off.
Well so much for me just sleeping in the MBR. Lol
W and I just had a blow up. Or probably more like i just had a blow up
Yeah she even used the phrase "nothing has changed"
I'd say that's a set back
I'm just so frustrated. I got home after driving 4 hours this morning and then working another 10. So I was already tired.
I walk in and there is fried chicken on the counter. Mind you it's 10pm. So I grab a drumstick. Well I go upstairs and W gives me attitude about eating it. Guess it was for S for school or something tomorrow
I go downstairs, as I'm walking downstairs I say I'm tired of this [censored] loud enough for her hear me.
When I come back upstairs I notice my bag from being gone isn't unpacked all the way. It's like she just left it there. For some reason that set me off. And before I knew it I was ranting and throwing clothes and shoes as I unpacked it
I told her this is bullshyt that I have to do all this and it's not even like I get sex or anything. I don't remember exactly what I said, but it was along those lines.
I walked off. Few minutes later I went downstairs. Still kind of heated.
I tried to explain myself and why this is happening. She just answers "ok" to everything. I said, "what are we doing? We go to your dads, we talk about moving, we talke about all these future things, yet we aren't even in the same bedroom. I have needs. I need to know what we are doing. I need to move out of that's what needs to happen for my emotional well being"
All of that was just constant ok' as from her.
This is what she does when I start ranting
So I go back upstairs calm a bit.
Then go back down and by now she is outside.
I asked if she got my text. I had texted her to tell her to find someone else that would want to go to concert tomorrow night.
I told her to stop being rude and talk. She said stop being a jerk.
I said I'm just tired of it all and it's hard. That's when she said something to more of the same, nothing really changing or something like that. I told her that the resentment in me is building up and that maybe I needed to move out because
I would rather it not end on bad terms. I told her I realize I still have a long way to go and this proves it, but regardless of what i am doing to work on me that I can change her
I can't make her want me physically and want to be with me
And want someone to be close to and kiss and hold
She said she didn't want to discuss this right now
By then I had calmed down
So I walked away and just said please find someone to use my concert ticket
I am worn out. This is true. I do worry that this is all she will ever want.
The resentment is building in me and it's unhealthy. I can't live in limbo land much longer.
I am so unhappy with how I acted. It really upsets me. I feel like I take a few big steps forward but then one giant step backwards. But I'm starting to feel like the steps backwards are because I'm expecting something that just isn't going to happen
But I see the triggers and can't stop them soon enough and this bothers me
One thing I have noticed is when it gets like this is I can't even remember what my exact words were at the moment and what I said
That scares me
Oh no. I know you already knew what you did wrong here. And the consequences.
Your wife saying "ok" is how she learned to deal with the outbursts. But I am sure you already know that.
I know you are not happy with your actions. I have been feeling your resentment.
You seemed to think you were coming close to your goal, aside from your outburst, but you said you had an outburst because you thought it was never going to happen.
now, in a calmer state, which is it? Was it a possibility, even if not on your timeline, or do you really think it was never going to happen.
I told you what getting angry regarding the sex thing and mentioning not getting it return for other things was not the way to go about this. That is what will push her further and not make it something pleasurable. Honestly, if you want to move out, maybe you should. If you want to save this, there is a whole whole lot of work you are going to have to do.
When wanting to discuss a sensitive topic, it could only be done sensitively. I felt this could have been discussed in a loving moment,in a loving way, instead of letting the resentment build up.
You can't remember what you said because it's a blind rage. What are you doing about controlling blind rages? Are you getting help for this issue?
This is just a set back. How you react now is more important.It needs to be different,i.e. not more of the same.IIf before you tended to be moody after such outbreaks, you need to not be moody.
If you truly regret your outburst, apologize. But apologize for the outburst, for not behaving how you want to. Don't belittle your reasons or sentiments that led to it. They are real and are understandable but not the issue here.
Limbo is tough and it suckks. But it is only a passage. I have many times wanted to break my limbo, but have decided that my best option is not to. I have been in limboland longer than I thought possible so I understand your frustration. It did seem you were making progress but it is never fast enough for us. Patience is key. Accepting to live in limbo NOW does nor mean that is what you accept as being as good as it gets.
I wish you luck. Choose your next step wisely, not based on feelings. There is no right decision.You do the best you can in the moment.
I told you what getting angry regarding the sex thing and mentioning not getting it return for other things was not the way to go about this. That is what will push her further and not make it something pleasurable. Honestly, if you want to move out, maybe you should. If you want to save this, there is a whole whole lot of work you are going to have to do.
Ayep ^^^^
Did you act like this when you were dating and thought about sex with her ???
Still.....you are trying to apply the guidelines from an old , broken marriage into this ( what SHOULD be a) new, better relationship..
How are you any different ?
What exactly have you learned through the past few years ???
You have to get back to basics with YOU buddy....
Before you even begin to think about anything else....
cbtdad - You been such a solid help for me. I'm sorry this episode happened, but we all know you had such strong emotions and feelings towards this subject. I completely agree with the vets on their advice. No one said that this road that you and your W are on is a straight line, there's going to be some bends here and there.
Today is another day to get back on track.
This is just a set back. How you react now is more important.It needs to be different,i.e. not more of the same.IIf before you tended to be moody after such outbreaks, you need to not be moody.
If you truly regret your outburst, apologize. But apologize for the outburst, for not behaving how you want to. Don't belittle your reasons or sentiments that led to it. They are real and are understandable but not the issue here.
I agree, yet I disagree....
Only a "set back" would have been correct after the first time, maybe the second time....
"Set backs" and "I'm sorry" only go so far until they become viewed as behavioral patterns.
After continual outbursts and "frustrations" are vented, I am sure that she is nearing the point of zoning out when she starts to hear the empty apologies from CBT. Hence the short "okay" responses from her...
C...
What outcome do you desire ??
Because I can assure you, that you are working toward one very quickly, and it might not be the one that you have in mind....
Ginger, I knew within a minute how upset I was with myself. It was exactly the person that I am trying so hard to fix.
You are so right on her saying "ok"
That needs to be my new trigger from her to shut up. That should tell me when I am starting to rant.
Yes. I am working with someone about this. It's a part of the verbal abuse and control that I am working on. I am constantly reading. I see IC once every two weeks and I am in an anger management class. These are things that I am doing because I know it is going to take a long time to "rewire" my brain.
In a calmer state I do think our marriage has a great chance.
But getting to Roists point that it needs to be a different reaction. And you know what? That's the good news. it was a different reaction this morning without even having to try. I wasn't moody, I didn't let in linger. I think that is because I know I will have setbacks with my anger along the way, but that I just keep pushing forward becoming who I want to be.
Mach1,
You are right as usual. This is not how I acted when I wanted sex and we were dating. Seriously doubt she would have married me if that was the case. This is something new and I need to approach it that way.
I have learned a lot through the last few years, especially the last couple of months.
We took our S to school this morning. It was his first day. Things were good.
I apologized. I said, "I want to apologize for how I acted last night. Yes. I am frustrated with some things, but that is not how I want to handle things. I'm disappointed in myself for it. I'm sorry"
She responded by saying, "I'm sorry I was agitated as well. I told you I was having a rough day and when I saw you eating the chicken I got upset as well. It will be ok."
So it's been completely fine from then on. She has been texting me all day.
I'm still upset with how I reacted.
I am going to use this as motivation to continue to get better
I will bring up in MC next week about having these conversations and letting W know that they need to be discussed before it builds up
I see so many similarities in your reactions to mine. I am prone to blind rage sometimes. When it comes to not getting what I feel I deserve within a suitable time frame, it definitely comes out. This is something I've worked on since my last outburst, and I'm able to calm down. The angry, ugly thoughts I've had come less and less.
But, lets factor in this. You were DAMN WORN OUT from a long day. All you needed was one little poke, and you broke. That's difficult. It's good that you tried to repair right away, but I believe even reading your stuff from 2013 the quick recognition was there.
It's hard, but weigh your options. Slowly build back towards physical affection....or blow it up and end it. That's really it. You can do it, and with all the work you've done I know you want to be with her.
So W and I went to concert tonight
Her good friend and neighbor friend of ours
I swear it just feels like good roommates no matter what we do
This makes me feel like moving on
I have a very good looking wife
But she just doesn't seen interested in that way
I feel like a brotther
The more i look at it, the more I think it's cake eating
I understand why you think that but I would be less quick to label stuff. Many people here read certain terms on this board and jump to the conclusion that that is it. Cake eating is one of those terms. That is just my opinion and is not a criticism of you or the board in general.
Your W has not categorically ruled out you as a H. Small consolation maybe but still most WAS here are categorical because they are sure. Limbo beats that in my book in regards to chances to turn it around. Living together, doing stuff together, having fun all add to your collective memories upon which your R is judged by W.
Let's say she really wants out. 100%. That must be an incredibly hard place to be and to continue living together. I am not saying have a pity party for her. After all WE see a very simple solution. But they don't. I often wondered if it is harder to stay with someone you don't love or stay with some who doesn't love you. Without losing myself too much, I just wanted you to reflect on this being at least equally tough on her.
I have another (maybe unorthodox ) view on cake eating.You are unhappy with your R. You are thinking of leaving because it isn't fulfilling. That is fair enough. But you have work to do on yourself regardless.that can be done without separation. So you cake eat while working on building a better you. Despite the shite there has to be advantages to still living together. You don't have to do all the shopping, cooking, cleaning, paperwork or son stuff. Ye still do fun stuff together, like the concert. None of this replaces a fulfilling R (nor should it) but should not be neglected either.
There are millions of people around the world seeking someone to share their lives with and what you are living beats their lonely existence. That being said there is nothing worse than feeling alone in a R. Ultimately it is unhealthy. I am not trying to convince you that what you have is better than the potential of being single. But you don't want to be single and this is a phase that has to be passed to rebuild a new R with W.
You have had a hard few years and eventually you may decide that is enough. That does not have to be today.Today focus on making the most of your interactions and more importantly use that time me wisely working on you.
Roist,
Thank You so much for your post. This is why I love this forum. I honestly never thought to stop and think that this is hard on her as well. All the validating and things I've been working on and I forgot to even stop and think what she may be feeling as well.
To me its all about my patience. Something that I am constantly working on. I tend to get upset when things don't go the way I want them to in a certain period of time. I think you are dead on when you say that I can be working on these things while we are living together. Which is what I have been doing.
The last couple of days I have kind of lost my way. I feel myself reverting back to the old me and getting impatient.
I think its good that I recognize it, but that doesn't mean its ok to act that way.
That is what I have to change
This speaks to me so much. We have so much in common!
1) Feel like we're the only one who cares
2) Impatient
3) Baby steps aren't enough, work should equal real results!
4) Thinking just give up to at least have a resolution
I go through all of these from time to time and I see them in you as well. I'm working on patience. I'm working on trusting the process. And celebrating the baby steps. In a little less than 3mos, the anger has died down, I'm treating this time alone as a time for learning and improvement, I'm seeing a therapist to discuss my feelings, I'm learning how to speak and listen, I'm becoming more confident in myself than ever before, I'm trying to figure out how I can forgive and I'm becoming the best Daddy I can be. I've improved in every area, but I'm not where I want to be.
Just today, a cashier asked me a question about Mexican Coke (hooray real sugar). Usually I would've just given a 1 word answer and walked off, because I don't like chit chat (think Larry David lol). But I stopped, answered and he appreciated what I had to say and might actually try one because I gave him a recommendation.
Anyway, not fully off topic but off the beaten path.
Hang in there buddy. From what I've seen of your threads, your W loves you and wants to be with you. She just seems gun shy that you can't get over the hump with your anger. Trust me, I'm not judging I'm looking in the mirror lol.
All ok buddy? Been hoping to hear of some good news from you....
I'm doing good! I just decided to take a little breather from the forum. W and I had a discussion Friday night after what seemed like a couple bad days from me for sure.
I told her that I recognized the things I was doing over the past couple days and that I was acting like the person that gives her anxiety and makes her run for the hills.
I said, "just because I recognize it doesn't give me a pass. I know that this is something that I am working on, but it's not something that is going to be fixed over night. I feel like we are taking 3 steps forward then one step back. I do get frustrated with the living in limbo though. It builds up and then I feel like we are just living like brother/sister or friends"
She said, "I understand how you feel. But let me give you an analogy." She went and grabbed a paper plate out of the cabinet. She then asked me to rip it up in 6 pieces, She grabbed some tape and started to tape it back together piece by piece in like a puzzle. She said, "I feel like I'm putting everything back together piece by piece, trying to match them up so that it all fits together" She was taping the plate back together. When she got to the last piece she ripped all up again, but this time in like 10 pieces. She then started putting it together then
She said, "this is what it feel like to me. I start feeling like everything is getting better then all of sudden its all ripped up and we have to start again"
From then on we had a good dialogue for about 10 minutes. I brought up that I liked her analogy and how that's how it felt for me about trust since the last time.
We even touched on sex for a moment. She said, "last week I actually started thinking that maybe we would just have a few drinks one night and it would just happen again."
That's the first time in 4 months she has brought up sex with me
I had a good IC yesterday and told her all about the discussion Friday night. IC thinks that W and I want to be together and that we are just having to work through these things. She stressed that patience is really important, but also stating clearly to the W what I want. That we have come along way, but I want more than a friendship. We have an MC on Thursday and I guess more will be discussed then.
We had another MC session today. The session overall went well. We both left laughing and smiling so I guess that is good.
For the first time since this began 4 months ago W said she actually started to think about things. She said that she started thinking about why she isn't moving forward and why we are in separate bedrooms. She is just still skeptical. She is waiting for the old me to show up. She said like last time I changed for a little while, but we are here again. I listened and I validated all of her feelings.
She feels like last time around we just put a bandaid on it.
I validated that and told her I agree.
I told her that even though we aren't in the same bedroom or having sex that this is the first time in a long time that I feel we are a team.
Im really having to learn patience in this, because a big part of me wants to say screw it and go. I sometimes feel like we are just delaying the inevitable
But I want to give it all I have
cbtdad,
That is awesome! If both of you are feeling good after MC, then in my doodler opinion, that's a very good sign. It sounds like your wife is onboard.
I agree.
It sounds like things are heading in the right direction.
I tend to be very impatient myself, so I can image how hard it is, but remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint. This time is short compared to the potential length of your relationship.
CBT, I think maybe you, Coconut AND me are the same guy ha.
I feel this way quite a bit, many times I'm just sick of letting her playing Single woman waffling on a choice while I do all the work. It pushes me towards D, but I know that's not what I want and I'd never be able to explain it to my boy.
I'm glad you feel like a team, and that MC went well. She's on board, she just needs to trust that the old anger and control problems are at least being worked on rather than just being latent and ready to come out again. You must feel similarly about something she does/has done though? Have you communicated that?
CBT, RSG, CNUT-
it's true, ya'lls are pretty hard to parse out and keep track of separately.
But you all have great advice.
W and I spent the day together. We went and worked out this morning after I tool son to school. I told her to sleep in and I would handle it. That's a 180 for me. Took son to breakfast before school. He loves it when we do that.
Working out was good together.
We then had an appointment about our sons evaluation we had done.
He tested really well with a high IQ. But was officially diagnosed ADHD. This isn't a shock to us and nothing we are stressing about.
Then we went and had lunch together. Followed that up with manicures and pedicures. This was a first for me. Haha
I actually did enjoy it and she told the ladies that there that she found a new partner to come with. Another 180!
I am really starting to realize that doing new things together is important for a marriage. I think we all forget that once we settle in to life of the marriage.
She is going into work tonight.
So it will be just me and the little guy. Going to steam some crab legs and we are going to get a movie.
Should be a good night to follow up a good day
Lol, I have to comment because I had my first pedicure with W the day before everything really blew up with her.. I agree that doing things together, completely new to both or even just one, is great for building bonds..
It's sad, in that respect the most fun I had with my W in the last 4 years was during the two months I thought we were piecing. Good for you cbtdad.
Good for you buddy! I know if I went w/W to do something with her she KNOWS I never would've tried before, and didn't sit there complaining, she would be over the moon. Yes, it's a lesson I've learned. You've got to be able to try new things with the W with an open mind. I think one of the first things I'd try with W is going to the obstacle course place with her.
As for S, glad you're prepared for ADHD. It's a great way to work together and have a plan for the kiddo. W and I are actually coming together better about attacking S therapy needs, but she still depends on me SO MUCH!
Glad you had a good day with W, and enjoy the evening with your boy!!
Cnut, sorry to hear that. I know those memories hurt.
Wanted to check on you. Usually means things are going well when you don't post often!
Thanks for checking on me.
Yes, things are going well
Still separate bedrooms and no sex, but I think I'm getting closer to my goal
I've really been focusing on no blow ups
She sent me a text yesterday thanking me for helping her this week
I responded by saying, "you're welcome. Gratuity is appreciated"
Then said, "just kidding. I don't expect anything in return. Just want you to succeed!"
She responded, "haha. Can't talk but we can work on that"
The thing is I am not expecting anything. I'm actually just doing stuff to be helpful to her. Total 180 for me
She's stressing about things and I just listened last night. We talked about the past and how we make a marriage work. It was quite nice
Anyways. I'm just going along with the flow right now because I know it's going to take time for her to believe the new me is here to stay
I do think we are moving closer to being back in same bedroom
But we shall see
Anyways. I'm just going along with the flow right now because I know it's going to take time for her to believe the new me is here to stay
CBT, you're at a much different place in this than I am, but my W has the same complaint about me. I think you're right that the only way they believe we've changed is by consistency and the passage of time.
Regardless, it sounds like you've got a good flow going right now bud. No real advice for me to give you other than keep at it!
This sounds positive. And it shows you're effectively battling frustration, allowing it to pass and working for what you really want. Glad you're keeping calm and just enjoying doing something nice for the old lady. Keep feeding the slot machine quarters (er making deposits into the love bank), eventually it'll hit a jackpot lol.
She's coming along, and enjoying your changes it seems.
Really glad you're doing well, you've been working very hard!
So things have been moving along
Just holding to plan and really watching my emotions and keeping my cool
Seems to be paying off. We had a good weekend, W came to fantasy football draft with me on Saturday. We had an interesting text conversation this afternoon after she said she was stressed out
He was the conversation:
Me: "Why don't you feed S something for dinner and I will get you some sushi on the way home
Would that help just a little?"
W: "I don't need pity Cbtdad. I'll be ok"
Me: "Ok just trying to put a little smile on your face
Do whatever you want"
W: "I know. I appreciate that. I just don't want you feeling like you have to fix anything"
Me: "I learned months ago Crispin that I can't fix things for you and that's it's not my job to make you happy
All I can do is be there to listen and maybe make things easier sometimes
So with that being said do what you want"
W: "Why are you being pissy?!?"
Me: "I'm not being pissy
I asked if you would like me to pick up sushi
Why? Because maybe for a small moment it would take your mind off of things
You responded negatively, at that point I said do whatever you want for dinner
Then made another statement to which I replied
Not sure why you think I'm being pissy
But that's not my intention"
W: "Ok well I'm being sensitive. I'm sorry. I just hate feeling like you are upset with me for something I wish I had more control over"
W: "I think I'm going to go to work tonight. They need someone and I need to keep busy right now"
Me: "I am not upset with you at all. Not sure where you got that idea
Do what you feel you need to do"
W: "I just felt like it"
W: "Thanks for understanding. I really do see all the changes in you and it helps. Otherwise I don't know where I would be or what I would do"
Me: "thank you"
So there was definitely some interesting things I heard from W in that exchange.
She never says sorry. That was definitely surprising. It was obviously nice to hear her say she is noticing the changes as well.
I decided to stay in our bedroom instead of guest bedroom tonight so the garage door does wake me up when she gets in early. I sent her the following text:
Me: "Staying in our bedroom tonight
Just a heads up"
W: "ok. That's cool with me"
Not sure what to think of where she seems to be with things, but we do have a MC session tomorrow afternoon.
My plan was to talk to her about her fears and let her know that I still have fears as well.
Guess we will see
CBT, she does say sorry?
W: "Ok well I'm being sensitive. I'm sorry. I just hate feeling like you are upset with me for something I wish I had more control over"
Did she ever say what she was stressed about?
Otherwise, it sounds ok. She notices the changes in you, and was ok with you staying in the MB. You didn't get angry, even though there was an opportunity for you to do so. To be honest, I could see my W talking to me like this. She says she hates the idea that you'd be upset with her, although there's no context to what she "doesn't have control over."
Maybe someone else sees something different, but I don't think there's anything to worry about. Do you know what she is/could be stressed about?
RSG she was frustrated and stressed because her horse didn't look like it was going to sell. She just felt as if it was all piling up. School, son diagnosed, horse, our marriage, etc
But you know what? The horse sold today.
So positive thoughts do work.
I had great IC session today and an even better MC session
In IC my therapist and I talked about the difference between "want" and "need"
I told her I felt as if for the last few years that I "needed" my wife
That I relied on her to make me happy during those times
But now I feel I "want" to be with my W, but that I don't need her
Yes, it would be tough to move on, but I would still be happy in the end
Because I'm happy about me as a person right now
On to MC session. We really talked about W being stressed lately. W brought up the fact that maybe one on one therapy might be good for her as well.
That was great to hear. We talked about our fears moving forward and how she is trying to work on things. She admitted that she is becoming vulnerable to me and that she is really noticing changes
I talked about how there are things that I still want moving forward, but I didn't push for them. That's I wasn't going to stress about those things right now because so much other things are going right
I said I really would like her to wear her ring again. She didn't say anything
But tonight when she left for work. She was wearing it.
I didn't say anything. I plan to in the morning
Anyways. I'm gonna just keep working on me and continue hope things go well
Patience patience patience
Ah, so no harm with her stress really. There's always going to be times where things always seem to be wrong, or difficult.
Yes. Want vs Need is very tough!! I'd be naive if I said I've fully learned it, but I feel like I'm to a point where if we D I can allow myself to mourn and then pickup my life and be ok.
Your W sounds like she feels like she's "falling behind." She sees you becoming a great man, and really wants to catch up to you. That's great!
The ring.
Keep working on you and going slow. Things are working!!!
I see a lot of positives and huge potential in your situation.It is great that ye can air your thoughts. You see the positives yourself so I won't dwell on them now.
In your text conversation two things struck me. Any time anyone told me to do as I want, it was received negatively.That is just me maybe, but regardless of the context or intentions behind those words,iit isolates the person hearing them. Maybe a better way of conveying the same sentiment would be : do what you feel is best, you choose what works best for you, or simply say "do for the best". Of course you can state your offer stands if she chooses, but don't insist.
The second thing that struck me was when you talked about supporting her, not your job to make her happy, etc. Whereas they are true and need to be part of your beliefs, spoken like that they can come across as learned/fake and hence false/not true. It is too textbook if you get my meaning.
I know that you have being patient but you are pressuring her still.I am glad she put on the ring. I just hope she did so from choice and not obligation.the former is good, the latter could backfire due to resentment.If you mention the ring don't make a huge deal about it. Just acknowledge and appreciate her doing so.
Best wishes
I agree with roist... actually he said exactly what I was going comment on re the texts... Do what you want seems negative, and quoting DB info/rules seems artificial.
I liked your response of just trying to put a smile on your face after she said she didn't need pity, and could of either ended there or you could have added, I know how much you like sushi and wanted to let you know I am going to pick some up in case you wanted some.
that's a lot for text, but if your going to banter back and forth on text, you have to be willing to put in the work to really type what you want to say and avoid short abrupt answers.
Overall, it definitely appears that you are both in it to win it.. There seems to be an understanding on both sides that you aren't going to say something that makes the other just decide it's over, and you both appear willing to talk things through until there seems to be a mutual understanding, that is definitely a positive. If the texts end after something that appears rude or abrasive is said, that's when you have to worry.
Thanks for the feedback!
Yeah, things seem to be headed in the right direction. I think we are both at the point where we want to just take things slow. Last time around we rushed back into reconciliation and I don't think neither of us want to do that this time around.
We both agree we just put a bandaid on the problem last time
Yesterday we talked about goals that we would like to accomplish moving forward.
I mentioned her wearing her ring as one of those things moving foward.
So it was nice that she put it on.
I saw her for a minute early this morning and she wasn't wearing it.
I didn't bring it up. She was on her way to class and didn't see the point in having a discussion about it
I love that that y'all pointed out the comments, about "fixing her and making her happy", being textbook.
It makes me feel good because that wasn't my purpose at all and didn't even realized I did that until y'all pointed it out. Lol
It's just how I feel and view things now.
Makes me happy because it tells me that things I'm doing aren't being forced they are just coming more naturally now
Having a good holiday weekend? Hope the 3 of you are doing something fun!
I am having a good holiday weekend. Thanks for asking. I had to work yesterday. And W has been working the past two nights but we've had some good times. We took the little man down to dragoncon today. He loved it. We having some neighbors over tomorrow. I'm gonna fire up the Egg and smoke a few racks of St. Louis style ribs.
Overall things with W continue to go well. Flirting has been way up. She was getting ready and I just picked her as she was naked and twirled around. We were both laughing. This morning I got in bed and put my are over her and she reciprocated by rubbing my arm slowly.
As much as I want to just rush straight in to the sack I'm trying to just pace myself and not come across "needy"
How was your weekend so far?
Sounds like it's been great for you!! This is fantastic. Hope those ribs come out well, I hear the Egg can do anything.
Well, while you're debating whether there's been enough flirting to go straight for the booty I'm feeling like my W has completely withdrawn since I mentioned the positive movement to my therapist. Both from me and S. W said she took him to the Dragoncon parade Saturday and he did well.
I asked if she wanted to spend the afternoon with him Monday because she hasn't spent much time with him. She dismissed it like I was asking her to do a chore. Lately with dropoff, she's made it into a minute or two thing but when she texts she uses all kinds of emotions. I don't get that kind of hot/cold crap.
I'm taking him to my folks tomorrow which he should enjoy. It'll be fun for us all actually. I'll get a little rest, he'll be able to go nuts running around and his grandparents are ecstatic to see him.
I am really starting to feel like I am living in limbo land.
It's actually not a bad thing. Its just weird. I am not sure if we are "piecing" or what we are doing. Over the last week we have stayed in the same bedroom some nights. Other nights I just go to the guest bedroom because its more comfortable actually. Monday night was the first offer of sex from W since a week or so before BD. It actually didn't happen and I am ok with that.
We were sitting around patio with neighbors when all of sudden she text me "So drunk sex?" I just responded "I'm in" to which she sent back a smiley face emoji.
Well by the time the first half of the football game was over it was after 10pm. I go upstairs and she says, "I am so exhausted now, you should have told neighbor to go home an hour ago"
I didn't push or anything. Definite 180 for me
Earlier today we were just laying in bed watching a show cuddling
So all the touchy feely stuff is happening and she isn't turning it down, but its weird. I am letting her take the lead on when she actually wants to make love.
This is something that I have learned from working on my verbal abusive and controlling ways. It really talks about letting them come back to you in that regard.
I just don't want to live in a sexless marriage so I don't want this to become part of the norm. We are seeing MC next week and my game plan is to continue to just live in the moment and bring this up there.
We have gone a while without any fights or blowups which is nice.
That's the main thing I am working on.
Also, she is really opening up to me about herself and her own personal journey
cbtdad,
Was that a pro game or was it the Seminoles vs Ole Miss?
Lol
Rebels/Seminoles game
I'm a huge college football guy
That was a great game! Of course, I'm a 'Nole. I married a Gator and got what was coming to me.
So W went out with girls tonight. She was a little tipsy when she got in
We were laying in the bed watching football game and she was telling me about her night. She was telling me that she was talking to the girls about what her and I were talking about last night. She said that a guy came up and introduced himself and she told him she would talk to him when she was done. He came back again and one of her girlfriends who is older intervened and said she doesn't want to be touched, she's married and not interested. Said it was said kind of rudely to the guy.
So of course I noticed W wasn't wearing ring. I could feel my blood pressure going up about the whole things but did not go there.
I just wish my W would say something like, "no thanks I'm married, in not interested"
I know that's what I do when I've been approached at a bar
Also, I know I could have instigated sex and should would have accepted.
But I'm starting to realize why I'm not instigating. It's not just the working on the new me. I've realized that it's important to me that she instigates and wants me. I want to feel wanted. That's what is holding me back
In he end I told her good night and glad she had fun and went to guest bedroom
It would take me a long time to deal with a story like that while we were trying to reconcile. Especially factoring in no wedding ring. I mean I guess it's good she told you, but still.
I hope you brought this up, at least on some level, at MC. That would be a HUGE boundary crossing for me. I'm sorry she put you through that. Otherwise, how are things?
cbtdad, I think it may be a good idea to discuss boundaries in MC if you haven't, I think it would be good for your W to understand them and for you to know what her boundaries are regarding other men. I'm not saying that she did anything wrong, because it doesn't even sound like she knew what his intentions were (I know the likely intention) or had a chance to say no thanks I'm married if he said anything to persue. I'm just saying that I don't know if no communication with other gender at all is realistic, maybe in this sitch it is, I don't know it's just not how I've ever felt. It is tough to think about OM hitting on the W, but trust is what's required in those situations unless they stay in a bubble.
W and I discussed this a little bit at lunch on Friday. Things were fine during the discussion. The part that I didn't over react to when my blood pressure went up was her not wearing her wedding ring. I have zero control over some guy coming up and talking to her. I am sure she enjoyed the attention as we all do as humans. All I can do is trust that she understands boundaries and why it can be harmful to our marriage. I do plan on bringing this up again in MC on Thursday. It's definitely not something that is a boundary for me. We've had discussions about this. She works in an industry that's 90 percent males. She has a lot of platonic male friends. Her boundary as she looks for is for one of them saying something inappropriate or "crossing the line"
I was having a bad day at work Saturday and I guess frustrations of no sex still building in and it can led up to a text conversation I didn't like. Here is some of it:
W: Did you rename WIFI
cbtdad: They did it randomly. I'm sorry I spent 40 mins this morning on phone with them to fix wifi while son was bitching while you were sleeping. Next time I'll just wake you up
W: Why didn't you give me the heads up this morning. It's kind of important when I have an exam Monday
cbtdad: Your right. It's the same password
W: I got that. TV wont connect and I'm trying to set printer up now
cbtdad: I don't know W. Call Directv. I'm having a crappy day. just handle it
Some time passed
cbtdad: Did you figure it out? Are you mad at me now?
W: yes and yes
cbtdad: Glad you figured it out. Sorry you caught me on my 3rd deal of the day and Im frustrated that I feel like I do an awful lot now and sometimes feel taken for granted. Guess payback is a bitch
W: How was that taking you for granted. I just was upset you didn't tell me this happened.
W: Would you like son and I to bring you sushi for dinner?
cbtdad: Not just that. Its fine. No thanks on the sushi
W: Well I'm sorry you feel that way. I've tried to make an effort to not make you feel that way.
cbtdad: I know you have. But we disagree on love languages. It is what it is W
W: Yeah I know. And I've tried to do a little bit better but it's hard. There's so much hurt and pain and scared. I have tried cbtdad
cbtdad: not saying you haven't, but I'm at a point that its wearing me down. I don't want to be in a relationship without sex. Sorry. Not sure what to do from here
cbtdad: deal number 4. Plus this conversation with you. What a great day!!!
W: How is our convo negative? Maybe you should take a min and reset
cbtdad: idk. maybe you're right. I;m just not having a good day
W: Well finish that deal and try and reset your thinking. Nothing good is going to happen when you are like this
cbtdad: I know. Just frustrated in general. you aren't the only one who has experienced hurt and pain. So when you say that and you've tried, it upsets me. Not saying you haven't, not saying things are bad. Just frustrated
W: ok
I didn't saying anything after that. When she says "ok" that's a trigger for me. I've noticed it and have done a better job with the texting and not blowing up in person because of this.
Looking back on that text as I typed it I realized that it was foolish on my part.
But the "I've tried" got to me. It came across as she tried and its not gonna change. Which then had me think what Ginger talked about with me. That regardless of what I do or who I become I may never get it back with her. That maybe the damage is too far done
We did have a next text exchange yesterday. She said something about son that was nice and I responded:
cbtdad: I like the new son a little:) I really like us lately. Lets keep it up
W: Haha. I'm much happier. Just a few more tweaks when we can
So overall, things continue to move in the right direction. Obviously I am wanting that sexual relationship with my W. It is really hard when my LL is physical touch. I will bring this into MC Thursday. Haven't spoke about the text from Saturday and the stuff that happened with not wearing ring
Patience is something I'm having to learn
cbtdad,
would you say that she knows you want more physical touch and sex? If the answer is yes you have told her (I know you have) I would recommend not bringing it up for awhile. In your text, you brought up sexless marriage like a weapon, and that's not gonna help her feel it. I fully understand the frustration of just wanting them to "Really" understand your desire, and the feeling that if you just tell them one more time they will get it, but I imagine that every time you bring it up it pushes her further away. Maybe next time, play a little hard to get when she suggests it.
I would back off of mentioning it, she knows you want it, let her do it because she wants, not because you keep bringing it up. Cuddle, be playful, rub her while in bed, then back off..
Hi there!
This is what I see. and I say this because I could be like you, AND I have been in your wife's shoes.
When I feel resentment build up, something tiny can set me off. I am calm as a cucumber until something small blows my top. From over here, your wife just asks you about a renamed wifi (seemingly innocent to her and over here) and you let it all out over the wifi password. She said it during your bad day and related her asking about wifi to not getting sex and feeling taken advantage of. Ouch from her point of view. ANd major props to her for handling so much in kind! She offered you dinner, validated and communicated. her dinner offer was because she could feel you were stressed and wanted to help you in a way she hoped would help.
So the way your wife acted was great. I used to try to diffuse situations like that. I finally became resentful and exhausted let became a b!tch. Not even going to lie!
My poor D9. I get overwhelmed often with my multitude of responsibilities, constant boundary and button pushing and not much appreciation. But she is a 9 year old. Sometimes she does one little thing after the 9 things I managed to remain calm mommy with, but that 10th tiny thing and I let it all out. I've learned finally to step back from the moment and really analyze what is going on, and handle it when I am calmer and less stressed.
maybe these talks do need to happen with her. But not when you are in the midst of resentment, frustration, or anger. I learned nothing good ever comes of that.
Her "I've tried" is because in that moment she felt like she failed you.
I'm leaving work now, back soon....
Cnut I see what are you are saying. I think that's what got me closer to that goal. But when she offered last Monday night and I just felt entitled after that. Like it should be happening then.
I am going to take that advice and put it to use.
Ginger, Thanks so much for chiming in. That's exactly what I felt after rereading the texts. I let it build up. I having been doing much better in that regard, but still working on it clearly.
Funny thing is that we really are in such a better place. I just need some sex! lol
Cbtdad, I'm not sure if this is going to make sense to you, but i believe that your W may need to feel your closeness without feeling like it's going to upset you if it doesn't turn into sex. I'm going to post something below that was written by a very respected veteran when she was going through her sitch. I'm not going to mention who, but I hope the words from a woman's POV resonate.
"I always seem to have self-esteem problems. Not being intimate with my husband the past decade did not help at all with that issue. However, the thing I beat myself up over was the fact that I knew in my heart that if I had went to him (made the first move) to have sex, he would have done it. Why could I not do that? That was what I kept asking myself. If I really loved him, why could I not make a move toward him? Because I did not really want to have sex! There were times I needed the closeness, but I did not want the sex. So, I began to doubt my love for H."
Work on the bonding, take the pressure away and fill up her love tank with non-sexual intimacy.
I know you want and need sex and it's frustrating to you. I hear ya.
But you had mentioned in another post that you want her to initiate and you want to feel wanted. I'm afraid you can't have all of that in one shot:) Her way of initiating was saying "let's have drunk sex" That is what she is able to offer your right now.
Coconut is kind of right. I could not initiate sex with my exH. It was a huge complaint of his. I finally did figure out why I couldn't. besides criticizing me out of the bedroom all the time, which made me so nervous in the bedroom, I froze. But he did not fill up my love tank at all. I had told you it was all pressure and he drained my tank rather than fill it. I did for a while think it was just me and I had no sex drive. Post D relationships have shown me I most certainly do, and I have lost my fear of initiating.
I think you guys really are doing good and are getting close to having that intimacy. But you do set it back with these convos out of frustration. Not going to lie there. It drains her love tank a bit. Keep working on that non-sexual intimacy. I would even suggest much foreplay and no sex. It would show her you just want to be close to her and it would make her comfortable.
And also, remember if she says " come on, lets have drunk sex" That's her inititation!!!
Thanks for the responses. That's where I was getting to I believe, but I jumped the gun. My lack of patience got the better of me last week I think. I've been working on constantly filling her love tank, but as my IC and I disused it gets hard when my love tank isn't been filled. That's the where the frustration comes in. I know she is trying and I know things are heading in the right direction, but I also have concerns about the future as well. Such as foreplay. With her sex is just sex, sometime with her toy with the both of us. It's been 5 years since oral or any other foreplay. Wife claims she doesn't like kissing. We haven't made out since 2009 if I had to guess.
That is where my mind starts to drift. I start going to the place of can I be happy in the end without the intimacy that I am looking for in a relationship.
That's what I meant when I responded to her text that I am scared too.
I hear what you are saying, it is something you really want and your not sure if she can give it to you. Just keep in mind that the perfect match doesn't exist, every relationship is going to lack something, the next person might be more sexually compatible, but be severely lacking in another area that you are presently satisfied with.
Just try not to focus too much on the things your not happy about, try and make sure your primary focus is on the things that you really are happy with.
I gotta tell you, after ginger pointed out the diffusing your W did during your text convo with her, I went back and reread it focusing on her words instead of yours, and wow. I really missed how much she really understood your mindset, validated you and provided suggestions that she thought would help you reset. It is unlikely that a future partner that hasn't gone through this kinda stuff would have the understanding that your W does on how to communicate effectively and make a M stronger.
Thanks Cnut. That is definitely what I need to hear and remind me that's why I want this M to work. I love my W. I want to be with her, I don't need her. We are so close in so many other ways than we use to be. I need to continue to remember that this is a marathon not a sprint
Thanks Cnut. That is definitely what I need to hear and remind me that's why I want this M to work. I love my W. I want to be with her, I don't need her. We are so close in so many other ways than we use to be. I need to continue to remember that this is a marathon not a sprint
I'm sorry I haven't chimed in! After Cnut's post, I reread your exchange from your W POV. She did so much there, it's a huge positive. It's amazing really. She wouldn't do that if you haven't been filling her tank. She recognized you were having a crummy day and basically gave you a pass, because you allow someone you love to blow off steam when they're stressed out. If you haven't already, tell her how much you appreciate that and make sure you say so in counseling as well. Does it feel as pleasurable as the woman you love taking care of your physical needs? No. It does show that there is a deep connection, and as that continues to be cultivated......you cut to the proverbial train in the tunnel.
Not to say I think you're approaching it from a lustful place, because it's quite obvious you want to be close to and with her. You want to make that connection. She knows that, but maybe you're just working too hard there. She's definitely coming around....
So W and I have been hanging out tonight
Been drinking a couple bottles of wine
Probably not a great thing
Earlier today W gave me password to her laptop because I needed to print something for a friend.
Unfortunately I caved in to my cravings of wanting to "know"
So I snooped
I came across a couple of things
First I came across her Facebook that was left open
Nothing crazy of definitive, but did come across a message between her and another guy where she calls him "darling"
The whole message made me kind of smirk because I seriously doubt she is sleeping with the guy or having an EA. But the fact that she is calling him "darling" goes right back to my problems with her not understanding boundaries.
The other thing I noticed was her web history
I looked at her Internet history and noticed something
She looked at the following porn back in the beginning of May: "crying sex" "ravaged sex" "destroyed porn" "savaged porn"
These were videos she masturbated to. I mean do I even know this woman.
I don't know where this came from. Did she have some encounter? Is this something from the past? Is this something in the present??
Is this something from her childhood?
So many things ran through my head
All my urges wanted to text her and say something
But I didn't do that
Anyways fast forward to the past hour and few drinks
W looking really good i send the following text:
cbtdad: Really
Sometimes I just wanna rip your shirt off
W: what
cbtdad: Idk
Sometimes I just wanna cuddle when I see you
Other times I wanna rip your shirt off and throw you down and dominate you
You are just sexy
W: Haha thanks. I have no problem you sleeping in the bed. I just don't want you to expect anything
cbtdad: I'm done expecting anything
I've begun to understand that
W: Ok
So I got the "ok" so I didn't respond
Like I've said that's my trigger
But clearly I texted what I did based on what i saw
I am just sitting here wondering what I am doing
Wondering how long before i get hurt
Wondering why I continue to give everything I have to this woman
I am at a point that I'm learning patience but learning that I am a badass individual who doesn't need to continue to stress over the "what ifs"
Sexual fantasies don't have to be the result of anything that actually happened to a person. In fact, sometimes it would be impossible for it to have happened. Tentacle porn, for example.
And just because she watched some videos (how do you know she masterbated to them?) doesn't mean she wants actual sex like that.
haha, I love it, it was a noble attempt cbt.. but just like everything else, see what works and keep doing that. It doesn't appear that suggesting you want to dominate her makes the "it works list", so file it away.
I definitely see where you were coming from, for guys I think the opportunity to act out porn scenes could be a turn on, but I don't know that woman see it the same way. Also, I've seen some stuff that wouldn't turn me on in real life, so it may have just been something she came across.
May be something you can discuss in the future, when things are better (fantasies, etc), but I would let that be for now.
As for referring to someone as "darling", do you know who the person is? If that was the only thing said, I don't think it means too much in the bigger picture, but I do understand how/why it would bother you.
I think dear, darling, hun, are used pretty casually when talking to others of the opposite sex, I don't agree with it (and have been uncomfortable when others refer to me that way), but it does seem to be pretty common.
Haha.
I definitely took a swing and missed last night. We were having a great time and she was looking so good. Plus a bottle of wine and you can figure out where my thoughts were. Oh yeah and did I mention it's been 5 months!!! Lol
I'm gonna file that one away in the "did not work" category as you suggested
I've actually walked in on her a couple times masturbating while watching porn. So that's why I assume she was masturbating while looking at it. I'm not sure what it is. If it's fantasy or something else, but it's nothing I can control and I would be lying if I didn't have my own fantasies either
As for the messages I saw. It's nothing on her end. I can tell the guy wish it was more by the things he was saying. And that's why I wish she would understand some boundaries about that. It's like she is just asking for trouble. I honestly don't think she does it on purpose. Or maybe she does and likes the attention
Either way it's not something I'm worried about at the moment
Even though we aren't "back in the sack" yet I feel very secure in our marriage.
I guess there is no way to 100 percent know if there is anything going on, but it just seems very unlikely