Starting new thread as >100 posts on last thread.
Previous threads:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2659515&page=1http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2669140#Post2669140http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2669145#Post2669145Married 18 years, wife has been emailing ex-boyfriend for at least 9 years before I discovered. When confronted she wanted separation. I exposed her after trying to get her to stay for 3 weeks. She pretended to be reconciling and gaslighted me instead, secretly planning D and then filed in February 2016. WW about to move out at the end of this week.
CWOL
I am replying to your question for your last thread.
You tell people what you feel is best to tell them.
IMHO, it is important that whatever you say that you do so with a feeling of love and forgiveness. I say this because for me I do have anger at my WAW for what she is doing. I do have love for her and I would jump at the chance to reconcile after we have both looked at ourselves and improved in the needed ways. I love her as she is the mother of my children. I am angry at her for the anger and mean things she has done since her decision to walk away.
I must stay true to the future so when I am asked or share I say we are separated and we are both working to take care of our children and we are sorting out our individual priorities.
Whatever you choose to say, I encourage that you do it with the future in mind. Do not say anything that would create an image of her or you that you would have to explain or justify in in the future if things were to get better or the opportunity to reconcile came up.
Also I believe that doing this or anything with love and forgiveness, will only help you heal better, grow stronger and be able to do all thT you will need to to be the man only a fool would leave.
Take your emotions out of the reply, keep it simple.
SadHub,
I think most of the people will be quite shocked when they hear that she moved out. They've always seen the three of us travel in a pack wherever we go. I'm don't want to lie about anything yet not give too much information that will end future chances at R.
When I told my close friends before, I've always ended with "I would gladly reconcile with WW if she can NC the OM and truly commit to our marriage."
CWOL
Shock from them is to be expected. Some will tell you they are sorry, some will want juicy details, and some may just feel uncomfortable when it comes up. You will feel most uncomfortable, but you have to choke down the pride and be wise with whom you share and what you choose to share.
IMHO do what you feel is right when sharing, just be sure to keep the future in mind, do it with love and forgiveness in your heart, and do it cautiously.
Folks love to have things to gossip about and the fewer details outside of the simple facts that you are separated,taking care of the kids, and that you are working on things is what I try to go with.
I read a wise post on these forums once that said something to the effect of, don't act on what you feel, act on what you believe and know is right. That will always guide you in the right direction.
With WW's impending move in just a few days, how should I plan for this? I think I mentioned before about a painting that her father gave to us as our wedding present. She wanted it and explicitly wrote about it in her filings. Well, it disappeared when S11 and I took our trip. I asked her about it before and she said it's "hers." I said, wait a minute, it was a gift to both of us (and could be quite valuable), we need to decide in the final settlement, you can't just take it. By that time I was getting angry so I walked a way. It was the same for a statue, she claimed her mother gave to her. But now I am thinking about it I distinctly remember buying it and paying for it myself. It is also mysteriously gone. This is something that has gone on throughout our marriage, she used to say (in jest, but now I see she really meant it), "What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine!"
So what should I do on Moving Day? Should I hang around and make sure things are not taken? I haven't told my L about those two items yet, I figured I would itemize everything to save legal fees. She's already taken half the plates, half the flatware, etc. It's going to be hard for S11 and I to sit there and watch her remove things from my house. It was already hard last weekend as she was cleaning out her closets, which is 70% of our total closet space. (I have no idea how she's going to fit all the clothing, purses, shoes, etc. in her apartment. There were so many things that still had price tags on them!) What do you guys suggest I do on that day? I don't want to be a jerk but I want her to be reasonable.
CWOL,
I suggest you take a video of all assets in the home, will be easier to track and make a list from the video. It was suggested W and I do the same.
Good idea. I have taken a bunch of pictures before but a video could be easier and faster to execute.
JimKao's suggestion is best.
Itemize the list and have a video and or pics.
If you are there having someone else there with you is another suggestion.
Or you can take your s and go somewhere and have fun.
I unfortunately stayed, did not have another person with me and it was fireworks in my sitch. And she still took a few things from me and is holding them hostage. I wish I would have not been there so my girls did not have to see their mother act out the way she did, but that was just my experience.
Unfortunately the whole ordeal is not a pretty one but you have to protect you s and yourself at this point. WAW/WW are not going to be nice regardless of what you do at this point.
And a wise person told me in my thread it is just stuff, you can replace stuff. But protect yourself and child.
In most states...until there is a court order dividing assets or a side agreement authorizing it....nothing "marital" (which is arguably everything but her clothes and truly personal items) is supposed to go anywhere.
If she wants half the plates and flatware...she's supposed to wait for the court order allowing her to remove it.
Considering her strategy...you might want to be there...with a friend who can make sure you stay civil and not get the cops called on you to make sure she doesn't remove things like "her" nightstand (which is part of a set that one or the other of you should receive in whole - partial sets are worthless), other furniture....half the kitchen chairs, half the couch pillows.
Read the court order carefully and then abide by it (because she's the one that petitioned for it - refer to it as "HER court order".
Change the locks as soon as she leaves so she doesn't reenter the next day while you're at work. Sometimes this can be achieved by changing the garage door opener code and then changing all the other doors so she can't get in without breaking in. Inspect all the windows too...she may be slick enough to leave herself an entry point on the sly --- just in case. (you may want to unlock a window too...in case your garage door doesn't open or the power is out and you can't get in --- as a backup).
You don't throw the locksmith thing in her face. Let her discover it later and get ticked off at you ...it's a good test to see if she actually tried to go in. If she gets mad about it...say, in a half joking calm non-vindictive manner - "I didn't know we were going to exchange keys to each others homes - let me know when you've made me a copy of your apartment key and we can trade up".
I don't think it's going to get THAT bitter, but I just want those two things back. I just can't believe she'd swipe something she explicitly named in a court filing, and think I won't notice it. I remember her father making a big deal about the painting and how it's an heirloom for us (over a hundred years old). He has since passed but I'm sure if he were alive today, he'd be ashamed of his daughter and be making sure the D doesn't happen.
I'm just going to ask her for the key back, and give it to S11. He'll need it if he comes home from baseball practice earlier than me. I'll just have to instruct him not to let her in without my permission.
Do not ask for her key, change the locks and give S his own key...
Do not ask for her key, change the locks and give S his own key...
I agree!
Hi CWOL,
There's really no sense arguing over possessions at this point as others have pointed out -- if things get to the point of divorce you'll both need to disclose all of your assets and income sources and you'll go through an exercise at that point to divide things amicably. The only real risk is if she would take things and then claim they never existed which is where your video comes in.
Regarding telling people you're separating, or she's moving out -- that was something I *dreaded* in my sitch. After the fact, I found that people were either exceptionally supportive, or really didn't care that much. I think that you build up in your mind that everyone is going to be gossiping about you or judging you but in reality it doesn't register that high on anyone's radar. The other thing that happened after I told people what was going on is that a lot of them confided in me their own relationship challenges -- no one's relationship is as good as it looks from the outside.
It's been a few years since she moved out at this point, I'm divorced, and because of what I went through friends still come to me to ask for advice and see me as a safe place to discuss their relationship challenges. I think you'll be surprised to find that disclosure can actually deepen your friendships.
Good luck!
Hi Accuray,
Thanks for responding. Regarding the assets: Yes, I have already disclosed our accounts and our financial assets are very straightforward as I have good records on them. What bugs me is the household items like the painting and statue she simply took. Her sense of entitlement upsets me, as just because they were gifts, even though they were gifts to both of us.
After reading your threads, I really enjoyed the eloquence of your posts. I would like to learn from your experience... Were there things that you would change in retrospect? In both the initial period after BD and also during the D?
I'm afraid my WW is very much like your XW, and that any Recovery may only be temporary as long as OM is available. My first R lasted 17 years but in at least the last nine of those years, she was mentally unfaithful. Were there signs and symptoms in your WW that you would have spotted early to tell you that R is illusory?
I read up on Kübler-Ross five stages of Grief. I think I am stuck in the Anger and Depression stages. Anger in that I keep thinking about WW's lies, manipulation, deceit, etc. for all these years. When I wake up in the middle of the night, I keep thinking dark thoughts about lashing out, getting revenge, etc. I know Detaching from my emotions for her will help me get over these stages. But how do I convince myself not to seek revenge? Lately it has been consuming me, I have to consciously force myself to think about something else to get my mind cleared.
In the beginning I had some anger as well, it let up when WW pretended to piece with me. But lately it has really intensified as the D is spiraling around me and I have no control over it. I just want her to feel the same pain I am feeling. I know she is feeling pain as well but she hides it from me. When we sit together for dinner last night and had some funny discussions with S11, I keep thinking to myself, isn't this enough? Why does she need to destroy this?
Ugh, I need to conquer these dark thoughts of vengeance, they are consuming me!
CWOL,
I've sat at dinner many nights wondering the same thing. We're all sitting around having good conversation, laughing and getting along very well. It makes you wonder why anyone would leave that; it's that sort of thing that's the good stuff of life. Why not use those moments and build off of them? But I guess the affair drug is so strong and reality is so distorted the wayward spouse just can't see it for what it is.
As far as revenge is concerned, I usually consider the end result of revenge. It won't really make you feel any better;in fact you'll probably feel worse and it won't do any good for anyone else. So it's best to just take the high road.
Of course, if we could take all of our spouses' EA/PA partners and load them on a plane and drop them on a very small deserted island, I might be okay with that.
Sounds like a very wayward orgy on an island there doodler.
DDJ,
I guess it could be a reality show; Wayward Orgy Island. I think that might have some potential. I wonder if there's anyone on the forum with reality show experience. Might need a few investors too. Anyone, anyone...
You 3 pups (Doodler, CWOL and DDJ) are still very early in this. Very early. And you will have all sorts of crazy thoughts, sleep problems, violent modd swings, weight loss and a whole lot of other issues. This whotle $hitty situation takes time to resolve, absorbe and dissolve.
The only way out of this hell hole is to work on yourself, let your W find her way out of the mess (no, you cannot help her). The most difficult thing for me to accept was the fact I cannot help my W. I am a fixer by nature and I thought if I put just a little bit more of an effort, I could fix her and the relationship. WRONG!
Find yourself, reinvent yourself, built a new, better and happier you. You will thank yourself latter. Don't take any $hit from the W, read and reread SAndi's rules and rock on!
Vapo,
Preach on brother! I need a good bonk on the head. I still spend waaay too much time thinking about $hit I can't possibly change.
Vapo,
Yes, that's one of her chief complaints against me throughout the years, that I'm always trying to "fix" her or her problems. It is what I do for a living, so whenever she tells me a problem at work, or complains about someone, I would offer her advice on how to approach it.
Funny thing is in the last couple years, I've really held back on these things after one time she let me have it because of my "fixing." I read some article in a magazine and realized that she just wanted me to listen so I usually ask her how do you think you should resolve the situation, and she usually doesn't know and we'd end there and go onto the next story. I guess it was too little, too late on that front.
Its very early doors, I love this forum as it's a way to vent, let go, hold on. AAAARGH. But at least we have some priceless (cos its free) support.
Sorry that we're hogging your chat CWOL. But at least you're not alone, you may be lonely, but not alone!
My WW complains that I analyse things too much - but that's how i'm wired. I have learnt to not say anything recently if its going to sound like i'm analyzing things. Will rather do it during my day, as its my day job.
Her sense of entitlement upsets me, as just because they were gifts, even though they were gifts to both of us.
Easier said than done but your best response is not to let it bother you. i.e. If you want to get her to notice, then act like nothing she does matters. In the end she can fill up a shopping cart full of stuff and haul it away and the judge will tell her to return whatever is yours.
When it comes to division of assets you are *much* better off going into it with goodwill than with an angry adversary. The good karma will pay off.
After reading your threads, I really enjoyed the eloquence of your posts.
Thank you! I haven't read them in forever, I believe I've contributed much more on other threads than on my own although currently I'm largely dormant here.
I would like to learn from your experience... Were there things that you would change in retrospect? In both the initial period after BD and also during the D?
Well the gift of hindsight is wonderful so I'm happy to share. I've become fairly convinced that the very best thing an LBS can do is immediately go dark and drop the rope or head the other way metaphorically.
The best thing for everyone involved is for the WAS to be convinced that you just don't care what they do -- it doesn't register on your radar. They want to be angry and rant at you? Hope you don't hurt your voice. They want to be lovey dovey? Great, thanks for your graciousness, now I'm going to go play Nintendo. It's like Damone said in Fast Times -- you've got to have "the attitude" -- "The attitude says that you don't care if she comes, stays, lays or prays, no matter what happens, your toes are still tappin'"
The primary reason I believe this is that at the time the bomb drops, the WAS is fixated on one thing: "get away". Anything you do to interfere with this agenda sets you up as an adversary standing between them and what they think they want, and in that scenario it becomes all they can think about. You are a blocker.
Only when you are no longer an adversary or a blocker to their ambitions can they have the cognitive space to assess what they have lost. As long as someone is pursuing, convincing, cajoling, etc. they are blinded from taking stock as all they want to do is run.
99.999% of people can't do that. I've come to believe it really has little to do with the virtues of the departing spouse. What happens when your spouse leaves is that your sense of control and stability is completely ripped away. That is unsettling in the extreme and everything about you screams "regain control, regain stability!" and to your panic-stricken brain reconciliation is the fast track, which then makes you pursue reconciliation with everything you have, tolerating all kinds of ridiculous abuse and ignoring all kinds of good advice.
I've read at length about how that loss of control triggers memories of "infatuation feelings" which are also initially based on feeling out of control (does this person like me back? Will they go out on date #5? etc. etc.) Therefore you put your WAS on a pedastal and believe you are freshly "in love" with them all over again. It's a cruel mind trick to help you get back that sorely needed stability and control.
Truly heading the other way is too much of a cliff jump for most people which is where DB comes in. The DB techniques as described in the book are designed to give the false impression that you have already moved the other way (act as if, GAL, 180) and are doing your own thing for your own benefit.
Once the WAS believes, TRULY believes, that you are no longer in hot pursuit, they can breathe a big sigh of relief, enjoy the green green grass, and then slowly see their fantasy of delicious freedom dismantled as time passes and reality sets in. At that point, if you've been able to truly go the other way, you become "something lost" versus something abandoned.
In terms of the D, don't ask me -- I had a one-in-a-million D where I literally worked everything out at the kitchen table, had a lawyer draft it into something the court would accept, and was done for $1500 in legal fees between us. I ended up with 50% custody, no alimony, and the majority of the marital assets including the marital home free and clear. XW was very proud, earned a good income, and I think by the time we got D felt horribly guilty, but of course guilty feelings have an expiration date. We were literally arguing about the fact that I wanted to give her more and she wanted less and that was the basis of our negotiation, which as I say, is a one in a million scenario.
Post-D, the fact that it was so amicable has been a HUGE benefit. We have an extremely flexible co-parenting situation, do joint birthdays and key holidays, XW is fine doing things with my girlfriend and the kids present, etc. It's "all good" except, of course, that I hate the impact of the D on the kids and having them split households, and to some degree I still feel like a "failed" by not being able to save that marriage.
I'm afraid my WW is very much like your XW, and that any Recovery may only be temporary as long as OM is available. My first R lasted 17 years but in at least the last nine of those years, she was mentally unfaithful. Were there signs and symptoms in your WW that you would have spotted early to tell you that R is illusory?
Well when we first R'd we had a honeymoon period and I have no doubt that her heart was in it and she was committed. We identified a bunch of "stuff" we had to do to keep things strong and committed to doing them. As each week went by, she would stop doing one of the things and said she no longer needed it and didn't want to do it anymore, and that eventually decayed to the point that our relationship was back in the same equilibrium it was when she first strayed. At the time, I pointed that out and she said "don't worry, if anyone leaves this marriage now it will be you", then of course she started cheating again.
The second time, however, I had superhero-like spider sense and knew she was up to no good right away.
The huge blessing is that between BD #1 and D I had three years to be a husband only a fool would leave, and to truly be able to leave that marriage with no regrets that I had done absolutely everything I could do to the best of my ability.
That brought me tremendous peace at the time, and continues to. I look back with no regrets.
Here's the other thing -- sometimes people are just "done". It makes me cringe when people come on here and quickly diagnose their WAS as mentally afflicted in some way -- depressed, manic depressive, MLC, whatever. Unless a mental health professional has made that determination, that's a cheeseless tunnel. Sometimes people are just "done". Sometimes that's for a good reason, and sometimes that's for no reason. It takes two people to be married, but only one person to be divorced. Sometimes you have to take your hands off the handlebars, surrender to that, and say "There's nothing I can do. The fact that my ex is done doesn't mean they are a bad person. Now I have to mourn the end of this relationship and look forward to the next great adventure."
I have been exceptionally happy post-D and am in a great new relationship, really I love my life right now. If you told me I'd feel this way a few years ago I wouldn't have believed you.
Divorce is best avoided, but is also completely survivable.
--Acc
Accuray,
Thank you for your clear assessment and analysis! Yep, it's always good to hear from a true "veteran," especially one who's been through BD, R, then D. That is the issue I am struggling with, if there's even a chance of true R with WW, given that this is the second time she betrayed me. I guess there is always a chance, but this time I think the probability diminished exponentially.
When you first R'ed, do you think it was because you let go of the rope quickly? Or was it something else?
I find myself being able to detach more and more as time goes by. The one thing I can never detach from is the financial ball and chain I will carry around for a long time. I guess there's nothing I can do about that either, my WW is not going to give me that one in a million chance you got (although she did offer it on D-Day.)
I love the post Accuracy. Very interesting to get a look at a sitch in it's entirety and even though the d still happened you sound to be in a great place. That really gives me hope.
CWOL,
I loved reading your thread today. Seeing that there are many going through the same emotional roller coaster gives some peace knowing I am not completely crazy. ( not that I am a fan of the misery loves company saying ) but also seeing that we can and will come out on the other side. The journey may be shorter by really putting in the right effort and essentially getting out of a half of life comfort zone and routines.
Anyway, have a restful night and I'll catch ya tomorrow. Another day and more opportunities to heal, grow and move forward to a bright future. Even if it does look a bit different than we envisioned for so long.
Had my MD change my AD. Wellbutrin didn't have any effect. Now on Lexapro. I definitely need it, I get cranky and irritable for no reason. I wouldn't want my co-workers to suffer because of WW.
S11 complained that he had run out of snacks for his school lunches. WW stopped grocery shopping ever since she filed. I gave her the support payment for April already, even though she's been living at my house and not paying any expenses. She said, yes I bought food, just enough for herself and a little bit for S11. I just can't believe the nerve...
Well if it any consolation, my STBXW doesn't make dinner for herself or me when I come home from work and have my nights with the boys.
Not sure if she even eats dinner when she goes to the hotel and who funds the dinner, either MIL or OM. Who knows!
Lol, Jim, was that before or after BD?
My WW used to cook full meals for S11 and me, while working 30 hours a week. In the past five years, she cut her hours down to 15, and we were getting reheated prepped meals from Trader Joe's. Then last year more and more she would text me to pick up food on the way home...
All this before BD.
Hows it going CWOL?
Just wanted to check in.
Hope you are having a good Friday.
Any GAL plans this weekend for you?
SadHub,
Thanks for checking in. I'm doing fine, actually. Today was WW's move out day, it was a bit anticlimactic as expected. Most of the day I was busy running errands with S11 and then took him to his Little League game. S11 did well, was the closer in the last inning and struck out two to win the game. WW was there watching with me.
She came home and finished loading her car. She said we will trade S11 next weekend as it's Mother's Day, I said fine. Looks like she drove off to her mother's house instead of her apartment. No fireworks as she took mostly her clothes and no large items... I didn't find anything major missing.
She's been texting S11 now all throughout the evening. Should I limit that during his time here and focus our time together? Or just let it go? S11 is fine, I just told him it was WW's decision to leave our house, we would like to have her back if she will see things clearly.
It's kind of a strange breakup because S11 has a double header tomorrow and we'll be seeing each other there anyway... It's like this all throughout the year. So not sure what I should do, I can't make her not go to the games and I want to go to the games myself...
Hi CWOL,
That is great. Sounds like the move out went smooth and you were focused on s11. That is perfect.
As for the texting, I would encourage that you do what you believe is right. I don't know that there is a correct answer for that. It is important that you allow your s to communicate with his mother as if it were any normal situation, but at the same time, doing what is right by you as a father to ensure that s is spending time attentive with you. There is no right answer, but do what ever you do with love for your s11 and WW.
Congrats to your s11 for the strike outs and close of the game. That must have made you one proud Papa today.
Not sure limiting her contact with him while he is with you is a good idea. It may come back to bite you when he is at her place... Others may know more, though.
Unfortunately, her going to the games is something you're going to have to deal with, as much as it [censored]. Just don't go throat punching her!
Yeah, we're pretty civil with each other right now, she's been low-keyed about things. I'm sure she is really missing S11, he's just answered a couple of the texts.
Yep, very proud of S11's development as a ballplayer. He plays travel ball year round. For the past three years WW and I spent 5 hours almost every Sunday together watching him play. And during Little League season he plays on Saturdays and one night during the week as well. One of us always takes him to his club for batting or fielding practice during weeknights as well. Which is why I think a lot of people are going to be shocked at her moving out.
CWOL,
Did your wife seem to become a better mom after she filed for divorce? My wife was a good mom, but a bit intolerant of some of my sons' behavior (loud noises etc). After she filed for divorce, she's seemed to be a much better mom.
Does she seems that way because she isn't around them 24/7? Mine acts like that, too, and she only sees them on the weekends. It seems like being a weekend mom is all she really wants, if that makes sense....
Jeep74,
My wife is still at home, but she does work full-time. I work full-time as well.
I think the reason that my wife is a better mom now is because she's planning to move out and get a divorce so she wants and needs the boys' support during that time so she's become a kinder mom. That involves a lot of mind reading and conjecture on my part; regardless, I'm glad she's been a better mom.
My W had been a super mom the last couple of years placing the children first, before herself, me, and our marriage. Since the separation I feel she has removed me and our marriage, and placed herself first. It appears she is no longer the super mom.
CWOL,
It's great to hear that S11 is doing so well with BB. You gotta be one proud father. It's good that you, and your W can be civil. I know it's hard to have to see her all the time like that with games, and such, but i'm sure S11 is happy to have both of you there.
Did your wife seem to become a better mom after she filed for divorce? My wife was a good mom, but a bit intolerant of some of my sons' behavior (loud noises etc). After she filed for divorce, she's seemed to be a much better mom.
No, I didn't notice any difference in behavior, except her hostility to me became out in the open after filing. Remember, she was pretending to be willing to reconcile while she was planning to file. So after she filed we had a massive fallout as I've been lied to again.
Now, after move out it's only been one day. She didn't want to carpool for the one hour drive to today's game, so I guess that give me an indication of how things are going to go. She did sit next to me during the game and we cheered for S11 together. Overall she was civil, especially in front of the other parents.
CWOL,
It must be something about the filing of the d that sends them into the rage mode. I know my WAW was civil when it was just gonna be a separation, but once she opted for the d, she could not contain the anger. But that was in my sitch. Although I just hope that I can sit at an event for my d where she can be civil. D17, graduates in a few weeks so we will see if she can. Not gonna hold my breath at this point.
Have a good Monday CWOL and get this week started off good.
SadHub,
I think all of the secrecy and manipulation ended after I found her retainer letter and confronted her. Then the conflict came out in the open, she no longer could hide it and pretend to be open to reconciliation any more. It is still sad, because she was using this anger to drive the D and erasing all of the goodness we have had in our 18 years.
S11 had a good doubleheader today, hit a triple that scored the winning RBI in one of the games. After the games, we came home and we spent ride our bikes around the neighborhood, visiting his friends. It was good to have some quality time with him alone.
CWOL,
I'm sorry about all of the issues regarding your wife moving out. I think my wife will be moving out at the end of the month or maybe sooner. I'll have to see how you handle things. I'm afraid that my wife is going to take everything that she can while I'm not at home. So far, everything has been amicable, but she's clearly a WW and logic, reason and kindness seem to be on holiday (lost in the fog).
I hope some of the more experienced members can give you some good advice on how to handle your situation.
One factor to be aware of: this is stressful on your W also. By being the one to leave, she is setting herself up as "the bad guy" and that is a difficult place to be.
What you will sometimes see, therefore, is a driving need to validate their decision. They will be mean and nasty and will try to bait you into bad behavior. If you react, they say to themselves "See? Nothing has changed, I'm making the right choice"
They will also spend considerable energy pushing you away because they need to embrace their new reality.
The best thing you can do is to be compassionate and do your very best to place your focus elsewhere. Try not to play the role she's trying to write for you to validate her decision.
Finally, regarding S11, I went to a child and family therapist before telling our kids that XW was moving out.
The therapist said that regardless of what's going on between you, the best thing you can do for the kids is to present it as a mutual agreement: "We have decided that we can no longer live together. That doesn't mean we don't love each other or that we don't love you. You didn't do anything to cause this, and more importantly we want you to know there's nothing you can do about it."
She said that the last sentence is the most important, because kids will sometimes campaign to try to get you back together and will feel like they're failing if they can't.
She said you want to present the decision as mutual, even though it's obviously not, because you don't want to put your kids between the two of you. You don't want them to have to take sides, or to think one parent is "bad" and one is "good". They just need to feel loved and supported by both of you.
The therapist said that what you tell them when they're 21 is different from what you tell them when they're 11, and at 11 their emotional well being needs to be paramount, far above whatever hurts or conflicts either of you are feeling. It's much easier for them to process if you tell them you've agreed to go your separate ways.
Acc
CWOL,
You have quite the little baller there with s11. Another big congrats to him for a great game.
I want to thank accuracy for the post about the WAW's perspective of feeling like the bad guy and struggling with the decision to d. I think I have known this in my heart since this all went down for me. As much as I understood this, I was consistently caught off guard because I felt so trapped in feeling like no matter what I did, it would anger her. My WAW even said to me one time, that it would be " damned if I do and damned if I dont"
But this morning I needed to hear this because I am struggling with internalizing her behavior and anger and feeling sad like she will never even speak to me in a civil manner.
I love the info for sharing with the kids. You are right about the age thing. My d17 understands the issue and there was not much we could tell her and she is making her choice. She does not want to take sides, but was forced to due to the way her mother handles it unfortunately. But I work hard to ensure that she does not have to choose, and I encourage her to do what she can for and with her mother. D5 on the other hand will benefit from the info you share here.
So much wisdom and compassion on these forums.
Accuray,
Michelle Weiner-Dais has a video on Youtube, "Advice on What to Say or Not Say to the Kids." In the video she says that it's best that you do tell the children if one of the parents wants the divorce and the other doesn't. She says that if you don't tell them, they'll still figure it out they'll feel like they've been lied to. Do you have any thoughts on that?
CWOL, Sorry about hi-jacking the thread.
Doodler,
So far, it has been fairly uneventful. I've really enjoyed my time exclusively with S11 the past two days, we did a lot of fun things together and I think we bonded more closely than ever. S11 has really matured and is cleaning up after himself as he realizes his mother is no longer at home to pick up stuff for him.
But today WW picked him up in the morning for school with his overnight bag, and I won't see him until Wednesday night. These next two days will be the real test for me, as I will be coming home to an empty house for the first time in 18 years.
It is tough to look at the closets emptied (she took up 90% of our closet space anyway!) and remnants of things there. However, the separation is not complete because I will see both S11 and WW at baseball practices and games, etc. I'm wondering if I should avoid that for best DB practices? Or use any opportunity to see and meet with S11?
WW voluntarily gave me her key and garage door opener, so saves me from changing the locks, etc.
Accuray,
Michelle Weiner-Dais has a video on Youtube, "Advice on What to Say or Not Say to the Kids." In the video she says that it's best that you do tell the children if one of the parents wants the divorce and the other doesn't. She says that if you don't tell them, they'll still figure it out they'll feel like they've been lied to. Do you have any thoughts on that?
CWOL, Sorry about hi-jacking the thread.
Accuray,
Yes, I adopted this strategy as well. I made it clear to S11 that it was WW that wanted the D and not me. WW was furious about it, but I told her it's the truth, I don't want to tell him lies. I saw an IC before too and she told me to avoid casting blame, etc. However, I think it is important for S11 to know the truth. My WW was hoping to tell him that it was a "mutual decision" and that mommy and daddy agreed, etc. I would have none of that, especially when it was completely untrue!
This was also the methodology from the other website that I was using, which recommended Exposure as well.
I also talked to a child therapist and she said not to involve therapists with S11 just yet, the problem exists with the parents and if there are issues with S11, then bring him in.
Anyway, just my data points.
CWOL,
I'm sorry for you; I hope things go well while your son is away. I dread the day that my house will be empty. I'll have to find something to keep me busy because I don't know that I could handle the silence.
I've been trying to decide if I should change door locks and the garage door code. If feels weird that I've lost so much trust in her that I'm considering changing locks. That's unsettling.
I've been trying to decide if I should change door locks and the garage door code. If feels weird that I've lost so much trust in her that I'm considering changing locks. That's unsettling.
Yes, I was about the look for the locksmith's card and make the call, because I saw that she left a bunch of stuff strewn around the house. I didn't want her to use them as an excuse to come back into the house. However, this morning she gave me the key and the opener herself. So in the end it was not necessary and I think her L has told her that she's not supposed to enter without authorization now. At one point her strategy was to charge *ME* rent for my house since I have exclusive use of the house. My L pointed out to her that the house is only in my name, so they dropped that!
I really hope she uses this time to think about what she has done, and reflect on whether it was all worth it. She was busy texting someone yesterday at the baseball games, she was hiding the phone so I couldn't see it (she has been doing that ever since I discovered her secret second phone). Not sure if it was OM or someone else...
Ugh, I just hope she sees the light soon!
CWOL,
With regard to your last statement, "I just hope she sees the light soon!" I find myself wrestling with the issue of wondering if I really want my wife back. I don't like that; I don't like that I'm thinking that way, but after all of the pain and heartache she's caused for my family, I'm not sure that I could do it again.
Do you ever have those thoughts, or are steadfast on reconciliation?
Not long ago I would've welcomed her back with open arms, but now I see that I wasn't an awful husband and she's a by-golly WW and I don't like what I see. I don't know what to think.
One of the quotes from the boundaries book, goes along the lines that "forgiveness does not necessarily also include reconciliation".
Doodler,
For the most part I have been steadfast on reconciliation. There were some moments when I really got angry with her actions, i.e. legal tactics, her secrecy and betrayal of me, etc. However, I don't believe her EA has developed further into PA and my hope is that we can piece back together our family together again. I am not sure how possible it is at this point as I am seeing her actions as retribution for the exposure to her friends and my "abuse" in our relationship. One of her friends (who supports our marriage) did succeed in talking to her (she planned a surprise visit to talk to her, even though WW kept pushing her off). She felt that WW has kept everything bottled up and is very angry. She is particularly upset about the "snooping" and going through her stuff (how I found out about the secret second phone and the D planning). Her friend told her though that she shouldn't be angry, because what I did was completely understandable and justified. After all, it was the second time she betrayed me!
I think once we separated, her anger should die down. However, I feel WW pushed herself to this ledge of D, and it might be very hard for her to back down from it. She has done it once before though, when she escaped to her parents' house 17 years ago. Now the stakes are much higher with S11 in the picture.
CWOL,
Wow, that friend is a true friend of the marriage! That is so awesome to hear. I hope your wife does come around; it sounds like there's a good chance of reconciliation. Good for you!
I know I'm eternally grateful for the people that have supported me through all of this.
Doodler,
I am hoping that is the case, but her actions over the past three months have really been going the opposite way! I think she feels that once she embarked on the D road, she needs to "move forward" (her words). I have read from others that it may take a month for them to wear out the initial burst of "freedom" when they leave, then to realize the gravity of what's going on. But in the meantime, the D is steamrolling along.
My L has filed for a trial setting so it will take a long time in our state, which is backlogged with months of D's in the queue. In the meantime we've already burned a lot of cash for legal fees, enough for a small car! I'm depressed just thinking about this.
Yes, for me the Exposure was actually useful because most of our mutual friends that I have talked to are supporting our marriage. There were a few Enablers in there who said "I am taking WW's side" but they are the minority.
Hey CWOL,
Regarding telling the kids, I understand the exposure perspective as well. I was just sharing a data point I got from a therapist I trust, and in my case it has worked well. I'm not saying that's "the right way" or "the only way to do it", just sharing. Take that and everything else I say with the appropriate grain of salt.
"Telling your son the truth" is a tough one for me however. Truth telling and safeguarding feelings always need to be balanced. It's the "do these jeans make my ass look fat" dilemma. You don't want to lie, but the truth isn't going to help anyone either.
The other risk, of course, is telling your children that the other spouse wants a divorce, which implies this is their fault, and they then explain to the kids *why* they want a divorce because of everything *you* did and then the kids are caught firmly in the middle.
I am also familiar with "the other site" you refer to, and did telephone coaching from that site as well. After weighing all the arguments on both sides I came out against exposure, but that's a personal decision of course.
In terms of your situation and your wife's anger, you have pitted yourself as her adversary. She wants to separate, and you have been steadfast for reconciliation.
Do you see how that pits you as someone who is telling her "no", setting yourself up as someone she needs to get away from?
A WAS will not stop running until the LBS stops chasing.
In this case you may need to use some "relationship Judo" and lean into it. Enthusiastically embrace the separation. Help her move her stuff out. Act like its the best idea she ever had.
What do you think she would think if you did that?
If she felt you were on board with her decision, how would that impact her feelings of guilt?
How would that impact her feelings of resentment?
How does it feel when someone gives you what you want graciously?
Acc
Hey CWOL,
Regarding telling the kids, I understand the exposure perspective as well. I was just sharing a data point I got from a therapist I trust, and in my case it has worked well. I'm not saying that's "the right way" or "the only way to do it", just sharing. Take that and everything else I say with the appropriate grain of salt.
"Telling your son the truth" is a tough one for me however. Truth telling and safeguarding feelings always need to be balanced. It's the "do these jeans make my ass look fat" dilemma. You don't want to lie, but the truth isn't going to help anyone either.
The other risk, of course, is telling your children that the other spouse wants a divorce, which implies this is their fault, and they then explain to the kids *why* they want a divorce because of everything *you* did and then the kids are caught firmly in the middle.
I am also familiar with "the other site" you refer to, and did telephone coaching from that site as well. After weighing all the arguments on both sides I came out against exposure, but that's a personal decision of course.
In terms of your situation and your wife's anger, you have pitted yourself as her adversary. She wants to separate, and you have been steadfast for reconciliation.
Do you see how that pits you as someone who is telling her "no", setting yourself up as someone she needs to get away from?
A WAS will not stop running until the LBS stops chasing.
In this case you may need to use some "relationship Judo" and lean into it. Enthusiastically embrace the separation. Help her move her stuff out. Act like its the best idea she ever had.
What do you think she would think if you did that?
If she felt you were on board with her decision, how would that impact her feelings of guilt?
How would that impact her feelings of resentment?
How does it feel when someone gives you what you want graciously?
Acc
In terms of your situation and your wife's anger, you have pitted yourself as her adversary. She wants to separate, and you have been steadfast for reconciliation.
Do you see how that pits you as someone who is telling her "no", setting yourself up as someone she needs to get away from?
A WAS will not stop running until the LBS stops chasing.
In this case you may need to use some "relationship Judo" and lean into it. Enthusiastically embrace the separation. Help her move her stuff out. Act like its the best idea she ever had.
What do you think she would think if you did that?
If she felt you were on board with her decision, how would that impact her feelings of guilt?
How would that impact her feelings of resentment?
How does it feel when someone gives you what you want graciously?
Acc
Accuray,
Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. I was following the advice of the "other site" to the T but it was NOT working. Nicing my wife had the reverse effect. When I did nice things or things she complained I wasn't doing before, she said I was being "fake." The more I tried, the more upset she was.
When I reported that to that forum, however, the people there blasted my efforts and said that I wasn't doing it right, or enough. Only one person actually told me I should let her go, because she's living in this fantasy and the fog is not going to lift unless she leaves. So then I found this forum and it says exactly the opposite. I have since adopted the DB methodology and tried as much to detach myself as possible. Instead of working against her I gave her money to help her move out. But her L's maneuvers prevented that from happening for two months, so it wasn't until last weekend that she was finally out.
It's actually a lot easier said than done, though. Even though I was encouraging her to move out, I'm not sure how "eager" I may have seemed. Deep inside I was still angry and sad about it, but I was playing "as if" the whole time. I asked her cheerfully after I gave her the temporary separation funds when she was going to move out. She did it over the course of a week, slowly loading her stuff into her car and doing it all by herself.
So now I've had very limited contact with her since she left, I can really put the DB process to the test. I've only been reacting to her contacts and so far it's very limited. We will see how this works out...
I just want to say that I'm very sorry for what you're going through and it [censored]. I wish I could take that pain away from everyone here. I can promise you that it's temporary and happiness awaits, but the journey is a long one.
I just want to say that I'm very sorry for what you're going through and it [censored]. I wish I could take that pain away from everyone here. I can promise you that it's temporary and happiness awaits, but the journey is a long one.
Thanks. It does $uck greatly.
I am still shocked, even six months after D-Day, at how fast my WW changed. From being a solid, loving family, to breaking it apart to pieces. It was like I flipped a switch, and my best friend became my worst enemy, stabbing me in the back.
I am trying to put the focus on myself and my S11, but it is very tough to remove myself from the situation that I have to deal with constantly. It doesn't help that she's taking half my paycheck every two weeks and allowing me to see S11 only half the time.
I feel your pain CWOL.
As I read your last post, it is as if I was writing it myself. Very hard to comprehend how it changed on a dime.
Hold the hope and faith, as the WAW will have to face the demons of all of this eventually. Meanwhile we can push on and learn from our mistakes.
Keep forgiveness in your heart ,focus your love on s11, and you will find the strength to endure.
We both will. Our children deserve nothing less.
Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. I was following the advice of the "other site" to the T but it was NOT working. Nicing my wife had the reverse effect. When I did nice things or things she complained I wasn't doing before, she said I was being "fake." The more I tried, the more upset she was.
The believability is of course the issue right? You were being "fake" and she knew it.
I'm not sure that "nicing" her is the way to go, it's more like not caring.
Not being in the way because you neither actively support her nor do you oppose her, you just don't care.
What makes these situations so tough to navigate is the nuance of how everything is said and done, and all the suppressed anger on the WAS side and the new anger and hurt on the LBS side, there are so many undercurrents that just get in the way.
Here's the dilemma with the "nicing" approach -- your W is set on this course. In order to feel good about the decision she's making, she needs to feel that's justified.
Her justification lies in things that she *believes* you've done, or have not done (regardless of the reality). She's constructed a story about you, that's based on thousands of feelings she's had, or many data points both real and imagined.
Now, she wants you to play that role, because that allows her to continue her course of action and feel as much peace as she can.
If you deviate from that role, such as "nicing" her, that WILL make her angry, because you're undercutting the story she's told herself about what she's doing.
When that happens, she can preserve her justification by convincing herself that you're faking, or manipulating her, but as soon as she let's her guard down you'll go right back to doing whatever it was you were doing before that she didn't like.
The only way to permanently throw her train off the track is that she needs to truly *believe* that things would be different.
She can ONLY believe that when (1) she thinks you've changed when no one is looking, i.e. whatever you're doing different you're doing for your own benefit and not hers, and the only way that this can be credible is (2) she truly believes that you don't care if she comes back or not.
As long as she thinks you're trying to get her back, she will suspect that whatever you're doing is play acting or manipulation.
If your play acting is directly undercutting her justification for leaving, you are going to see anger erupt like fireworks.
These situations are so difficult!
Acc
Accuray,
I think the first step before all of these other things will be for her A with OM to flame out. From her suicide notes I found, I think the fantasy is in too deep. But I can just pray that there was nothing there to start with. She conveniently is forgetting that he abandoned her 20 years ago...
I think the other things will work in conjunction with that, but without a break with OM it is very hard for me to pierce the fantasy. It really flared up I believe because OM finalized his D with his 2nd wife last year. It's crazy because she defends the fact that this scumbag is twice divorced, saying the first one he was working too hard and away from his wife, and second one was a gold-digger... That's not exactly a good track record, is it?!?
CWOL,
you have to turn the other way. You can't be fearing she will fcuck OM, and then be all relieved when you can't find evidence she did. There might be an OM2, or OM3. I know how the waiting hurts, how not knowing cuts like a knife every single night that she is out unsupervised. The only solution is to look away and let her do her $hit. In time you will just not care anymore and that my friend, is a blessing. A genuine blessing.
Do not worry, you will get there, but take the focus off of her and onto yourself. Keeping focus on her can drive you crazy, and I am not just exaggerating... Do things for you, make yourself a man only a fool would leave. But do it for you, not for some pathetic ploy to get her back. She will know, trust me. And I am not talking out of my a$$, I know EXACTLY where you are at...
Stay strong buddy...
I agree with you CWOL, the A has to flame out first. Regarding the twice divorced, I think the reason second marriages have such a crappy success rate is that people have learned the divorce is survivable so they don't hold on as hard. There's just less fear the second time around. I don't necessarily hold the "divorced twice" against him, but the fact that he's engaging in an EA with someone else's wife is completely unacceptable and I hope there is a special level of hell reserved for him!
Stopped by S11's Little League practice yesterday afternoon, even though it wasn't "my" day. WW saw me and stayed in her car, while I was cheering S11 on as he hit dingers in batting practice.
It was WW's birthday, but I didn't get a gift this time, in keeping with DB principles. I got a big bouquet a few weeks ago for our 18th anniversary and I didn't get not much of a reaction from WW except "Oh, you shouldn't have." At least it was pretty for me to look at in the house and smelled good! I guess I should go with S11 to get some carnations for Mother's Day though.
Texted with S11 to see how he was doing over at her apartment, I guess she's got internet now.
Last night was the first night home alone in 18 years. Actually, it wasn't as bad as people warned me. I bought the house three years before I got married, so it wasn't a completely new experience.
My new AD, Lexapro, seems to be kicking in, it made me terribly drowsy at work yesterday but seems to be helping with my mood. The only thing that my mind kept racing back to was the unfairness of what WW is doing, and how she is not only getting away with it but rewarded for her waywardness...! Otherwise, woke up only a couple times during the night but went right back to sleep, so a plus in that area.
CWOL,
I'm glad you did well on your first night alone. I'm dreading that day, but it will likely come. I'm also glad to hear the Lexapro is kicking in. The meds made a huge difference for me.
Keep up the good work!
CWOL,
I am sorry you are hurting about not knowing. My WW says she was dating and just coffee and dinner but when she baited me with email she tried to push my buttons about going away for the weekend to Florida with OM. It's not fair but we can't control their actions. Karma is a B*TCH. They will get what they deserve some day.
I am still struggling on whether I should announce to OMs company that he is with a married woman still. Some people have no morals but at lease it would satisfy me in knowing that I am better than those two individuals.
Call me crazy but I would forgive WW for her actions but mine is so stubborn that the likely hood of her ever coming back is slim.
We need to just accept who these "new" people are and deal with the things happening today.
Sometimes I feel thankful that the only thing I need to discuss now with WW is the kids.
I am still struggling on whether I should announce to OMs company that he is with a married woman still. Some people have no morals but at lease it would satisfy me in knowing that I am better than those two individuals.
I guess you could, but they don't work together right? Also, your WW already filed for D, so he could use that as a crutch. I'm sure mine would.
No they don't work together, her job is a SAHM. He probably knows already. She filed but after she had her weekend trip but of course she always goes back to when I filed for D in December. So it is a moot point.
CWOL,
You are doing well all things considered. I have been dreading my first night alone, but hearing you, I am thinking it might not be that bad. I have not had to be alone yet, as I have had at least one if not both d's with me.
I look forward to getting a good nights rest. Good to hear that you had one.
Second night alone...
Went and got a haircut, then treated myself to a hard massage, felt really sore and good afterwards.
Had a nice meal out and came home and texted with S11. He will be home with me for the next two nights, I'll meet him tomorrow evening for baseball practice, should be fun!
Have some rest CWOL. I pray that you find some peace tonight.
Hi CWOL
MWD has some really great clips on you tube on what to tell the children. She agrees with you, but has a nice way of wording it.
I really believe that that it is important for children to be raised with the concept that marriage is a committment. Not something disposable. I think it would be important for your son to know your honest views, as he will most likely be modeling your beliefs.
I am strongly against lying to children. My MIL did this to my husband regarding his father (who left them and then came back but had little to do with him). She wanted to protect their relationship and I get that. But my husband was trying to model something he didn't know the truth about. My husband still does not know, but my MIl asked me to not say anything. I really think the lies messed with my husband's concept of relationships and roles of parents.
Accuray has been giving such good advice. So much logic to it. It was hard for me to implement it though when my emotions were in full swing.
WS won't really want LBS back until LBS no longer cares. And they really sense the true detachment (not the acting as if).
OM sounds like a POS. It won't work out. That's a guarantee. And it's horrible to have no control over someone doing something that is just so destructive and foolish. I am sorry you are going through this.
Hi JujuB,
Thanks, I will watch those MWD clips. Following the advice from the other site, I have already told S11 the truth in the beginning and explained the concept of marriage and commitment. He understood it well but it is a difficult situation for him as it is his mother. He's been here throughout the past eleven years so he knows the truth about our relationship, no re-writing of history by WW can change that.
It is still a very tough slog day to day. I did get a good night's rest last night, only woke up once at 5 am and went back to sleep. So the AD is really kicking in. The key to having a good day has been to put my focus on other things and work on them. Still, the sadness remains.
CWOL,
The MWD video that discusses how to talk to the children about divorce is very good. Her advice is to be honest and tell the children which spouse wanted the divorce. (I know you've already done that.) What was interesting was that I mentioned that video when talking to a DB coach and he was surprised to hear that MWD supported that approach. I guess the coaches don't watch MWD's videos. Regardless, I dread talking to my sons about the divorce.
I'm glad your AD is kicking-in, my AD has really helped through the DB process.
I'm sorry about the sadness; my wife's move-out day is at least a week away and I'm feeling the sadness already. I hope you can GAL and get your mind off of your marriages woes.
CWOL ,
You sound to be holding up pretty well in spite of the sadness. It is good to hear how well you are sleeping. What's your secret? I am looking forward to just one good nights rest.
I did not hardly sleep at all last night, felt good this morning, but now I feel like falling asleep right here at my desk. But I gotta push through the day and hope that the sleepiness holds on till tonight.
Have a great day and time with your son. Keep taking it one step at a time, and know I am here pulling for you.
You sound to be holding up pretty well in spite of the sadness. It is good to hear how well you are sleeping. What's your secret? I am looking forward to just one good nights rest.
SadHub,
My secret is Lexapro, 10mg, I take it right before I go to sleep. The first few days it made me dizzy, but now I think it's kicking in. I do wake up in the morning a little drowsy but feel rested. Also, it spared me a lot of the dark thoughts at night. I was taking Wellbutrin 300mg on advice of the MD because it has less side effects. Well, it had NO effect on me so I went back and the MD changed me to Lexapro.
I was taking over-the-counter melatonin initially right after D-Day. It was OK and things were not as serious back then, as my WW was pretending to piece. Well, after she filed, all hell broke loose then I had to seek help from an MD.
Talk to your doctor, he should be able to help you. The copay on my med is very cheap, like $11 for 30 days.
I'm about 3 weeks away from W moving out and I am dreading it. Having to finally tell the kids must be tough. Thank you for sharing what you're going through, it is really helping me prepare for what's to come.
Sadhub,
I take Lexapro as well. I think a lot of people try to fight their way through depression. But, when you're fighting for your marriage, it's very hard to work through everything effectively if you're depressed. Don't get me wrong, I do feel sadness and it hurts that my marriage is headed towards divorce, but at least I'm not incapacitated with depression.
Picked up S11 at baseball practice, WW sat in car and gave me the bag. She is now reneging and won't take him to pitching practice the next day because "it wasn't in the agreement," i.e. because she wanted to make the custody 54%/46% instead of current 50%/50%. That really made me upset, now I have to leave work early to take S11, or I'll have to take him late not leaving him enough time to do homework tonight. What gets me is the reason is because I'm at working making the money which makes it possible for her to enjoy this "lifestyle" of working 15 hours a week, yet I'm being punished because of an hour that I can't be there...!
Again the sense of entitlement drives me nuts.
I can relate to your frustration about sense of entitlement. Not sure what will resolve that in our W's.
Look at the bright side, your S will be driving in a few years and you won't have to worry about the drop off and pick up to practices. This will mean less exposure to entitlement.
Unfortunately for me, my interaction with entitlement issues will be much longer with my STBXW.
Keep your head up high CWOL. I feel your pain as my daily commute went from about 40 minutes per day to 3 hours per day as I am making all the rounds form my little girls.
Keep focused forward and there you will start to find answers and solutions to the chaos that has been thrown into your life.
When I got divorced, we agreed that my ex would move out and I would stay in the house. It took her one weekend to go out and buy a townhouse, and immediately moved into it.
The worst times for me were being home alone in a house that used to have 5 people in it and now only had one. What worked for me was getting on the phone and connecting with friends, getting out on my road bike and laying down miles, and going out with friends for a drink. Eventually when I was ready, I started dating and that made everything much better as well.
Humans aren't designed to be alone, so it hurts everyone. By the same token, it's temporary. You will be happy again, happier than you have been in a long time.
Acc
Picked up S11 at baseball practice, WW sat in car and gave me the bag. She is now reneging and won't take him to pitching practice the next day because "it wasn't in the agreement," i.e. because she wanted to make the custody 54%/46% instead of current 50%/50%. That really made me upset, now I have to leave work early to take S11, or I'll have to take him late not leaving him enough time to do homework tonight. What gets me is the reason is because I'm at working making the money which makes it possible for her to enjoy this "lifestyle" of working 15 hours a week, yet I'm being punished because of an hour that I can't be there...!
Again the sense of entitlement drives me nuts.
No, S11 is being punished. You could point out to her that using the kids as weapons in a divorce is really, really frowned upon in court. The judge wants people to cooperate to make things as easy as possible for the kids in an otherwise very challenging situation.
Also, if your income is reduced due to having to leave work, support will have to be recalculated.
No, S11 is being punished. You could point out to her that using the kids as weapons in a divorce is really, really frowned upon in court. The judge wants people to cooperate to make things as easy as possible for the kids in an otherwise very challenging situation.
Also, if your income is reduced due to having to leave work, support will have to be recalculated.
Unfortunately my WW is not being rational about these things. At first she volunteered to continue to take him to all of the practices and games, because she has so much free time. Now she's trying to use that to gain advantage in the support calculations. It's very annoying. There are only a few more weeks left in the LL season and she's making it out to be more than it is.
I'm salaried so it doesn't hit my pay, but obviously it's not good for me to leave work early constantly while asking my staff to stay later. It will impact me long-term but I won't be able to show short term loss because of it...
Humans aren't designed to be alone, so it hurts everyone. By the same token, it's temporary. You will be happy again, happier than you have been in a long time.
Accuray,
So far it hasn't been so bad for me, I've been busy running around doing things anyway, especially with S11's hectic schedule. This weekend will be the real test with a five day stretch of me by myself. Being alone hasn't bothered me so much in the last two day stretch, but it is more the sadness and grief that is weighing down on me. Getting much better rest now, the anxiety has subsided somewhat.
WW's L sent over a laundry list for discovery, as did my L to them. Looks like all the same documents I've already provided... Not looking forward to burning cash for no good reason!
One thing my S11 told me that disturbed me: My WW only has one bed at her apartment (it's a one bedroom). She shares the bed with him when he is there. I don't think that is healthy at all, when we were all at our house my WW would sometimes do that as well. I can understand when S was 5 years old, but at for a 11 to 12 year old prepubescent boy? I don't think that is right.
Is there anything I can do about it? Originally she said that she would sleep on the sofa when he's over, but he told me that is not the case.
This weekend will be the real test with a five day stretch of me by myself. Being alone hasn't bothered me so much in the last two day stretch, but it is more the sadness and grief that is weighing down on me. Getting much better rest now, the anxiety has subsided somewhat.
WW's L sent over a laundry list for discovery, as did my L to them. Looks like all the same documents I've already provided... Not looking forward to burning cash for no good reason!
I feel you brother! I will not see my boys for 5 days also. We are in the discovery phase and psych eval. Burning through cash for the Ls or until someone gives up on custody.
I hope you have a good weekend my friend.
CWOL,
During separation, but prior to divorce, do you have to split your son's time 50-50 with your wife?
I was wondering about that for my situation. My wife is planning to move next week and she says she's going to take the boys with her for the first week. I sent an email to my lawyer this morning to ask her about that, but she's out of the office and I won't get a response until Monday.
During separation, but prior to divorce, do you have to split your son's time 50-50 with your wife?
I was wondering about that for my situation. My wife is planning to move next week and she says she's going to take the boys with her for the first week. I sent an email to my lawyer this morning to ask her about that, but she's out of the office and I won't get a response until Monday.
Yep, otherwise I would have kept S11 completely. Separation is basically the same as D, except my alimony payment is a little higher (10-15% higher) and our assets are not divided yet. It's very hard to get >50% custody in my state, unless the other spouse is a felon or drug user, etc. That's why I had to split with her. Also that's why it's important to have an L get as good a temporary separation agreement as possible, because usually that's what determines the permanent custody arrangements after the D.
CWOL,
Thank you for your input and support. I see that you're all over this forum providing a lot of good direction and support to a lot of members. Thanks for all your time and effort, it's greatly appreciated.
One thing my S11 told me that disturbed me: My WW only has one bed at her apartment (it's a one bedroom). She shares the bed with him when he is there. I don't think that is healthy at all, when we were all at our house my WW would sometimes do that as well. I can understand when S was 5 years old, but at for a 11 to 12 year old prepubescent boy? I don't think that is right.
Is there anything I can do about it? Originally she said that she would sleep on the sofa when he's over, but he told me that is not the case.
I agree, your S11 may develop problems sleeping by himself at your place. Do you have a parenting mediator you guys can use? Usually cheaper than a L.
Just checking in to see how CWOL is doing today.
I hope all is well.
SadHub,
Doing well thanks. Yesterday was able to watch S11 at his game, even though it's not my weekend. They beat their intraleague rival at last!
This morning was tough waking up. The AD is kicking in, slept continuously for 9 hours! But I'll go watch S11's basketball practice in the afternoon.
I agree, your S11 may develop problems sleeping by himself at your place. Do you have a parenting mediator you guys can use? Usually cheaper than a L.
1gr8dad,
We don't have a mediator, I will have to ask my L about this sleeping arrangement, I am not happy about it at all.
It looks like we are going to a trial setting and I read through 5 pages of discovery requests. It is not going to be pleasant, and so annoying!
CWOL,
Good to hear you are getting some sleep. I wish my AD would help with that.
Congrats again to your son and his team. He is quite the baller.
Enjoy the time with your s today.
SadHub,
Yes, Lexapro is working well for me, maybe a little too well. Now I'm a little tired waking up in the morning, even after 10 hours of sleep yesterday! I think I'm still adjusting to the med, but it has helped me mood-wise.
You might want to check with your MD to see if you should try something else if your AD is not working for you.
Had a great time practicing basketball with son and his friends yesterday. It was Mother's Day so his baseball team was off. WW dropped him off late at the basketball court but we had a great time there playing a pickup game. It was good to exercise and blow off some steam as well.
WW dropped off S11 this morning, it'll be my five days now. Conveniently she made him bring a sack of dirty laundry for me to do.
Writing this month's support payment checks is making me physically ill. I cannot believe our "justice" system thinks this is fair, giving my WW half my net income. Especially since she's the one who betrayed and manipulated me for at least nine years! Plus I'm guessing the trial will cost us another $30-50K in legal fees, given the way her L operates.
Ugh... How do I deal with this anger and hopelessness? The AD helps with anxiety and panic attacks and getting rest, but not so much the seething anger I have that's been building for six months. Exercising and doing something else to get my mind off this help temporarily. But whenever I see happy pictures of the three of us together I am so upset and angry, at the selfishness of WW. My house, computer, and phone are filled with these pictures that WW took and hung up. I don't want to go around taking them all down. But I am filled with sadness and anger every time I see them...!
CWOL,
I don't have any words of wisdom on how to deal with the anger. All I can say is that I understand how you feel; I'm dealing with the same thing. But, don't be upset with yourself for being angry. The anger is justified and you should be angry.
CWOL,
I wanted to provide some words of encouragement and I do so cautiously as I can't really tell you how to stop the anger. But I do want to encourage you to find a way to channel it. Vanilla has some great info as it relates to different types of anger and the benefits/drawbacks of them. There is good anger that can drive you as opposed to weigh you down.
I hope you can have a good day and I am pulling for you my friend.
CWOL,
We are both in the same state of anger. I received bad news today also. For some reason my luck is going in the wrong direction also.
Keep your head up. You will survive this. Somehow there is hope left in me also that I will too.
I know we are fixers but we can't control everything and must learn to accept the results of our actions.
What comes around goes around. Good does prevail.
Jim,
It is survivable, but at what cost? That is what I'm coming back to constantly. It will be torture to go through the D trial. I was writing out my answers to her L's interrogatories and it is so painful. I just don't see any movement in WW's position especially since I'm funding her spending habits. At S11's last games, I just noticed she bought herself a new pair of $300 sunglasses. To go through a year or two of this will be torture. At the end, I'll probably have to continue funding her for the next decade, if not longer. She'll get child support for S11 for at least 7 more years too.
Hey CWOL,
Yes let the anger in, let yourself know that you are angry and that it is a feeling that will pass. Do not make any decisions based on this feeling.
Your thinking about your wife and its affecting your mood. You need to focus on you. This is why detaching is so important. This is why looking out for you and your son is so important.
If the picture are triggers I think you should take them down. It will help.
Please start a new thread.
Yes, I've started one already a while ago. Please close this one off