Not sure where to go from here

[inpain]

Previous thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2669200#Post2669200

[Rouky]

Hello, how are you feeling today? What have you been up to?

[inpain]

Hi Rouky, I'm OK thank you. Plodding along in this new, unwanted life we've been thrown into. I've been busy this weekend helping S11 with a large homework project he has to hand in tomorrow. Other than that it has just been work and housework this week.

I still feel like my life is on hold waiting for H to make a move. We finished the exercises in the book on Tuesday and nothing has been said since. He bought me a chocolate bar yesterday and seemed to want all the praise in the world for it. He still comes round daily but just sits in 'his' chair looking at his phone. It is driving me crazy. I don't feel like we can relax and live our lives when he is here. My Mum thinks he comes round so much so that he can access the internet on his phone, because his Dad doesn't have internet access. I'm beginning to wonder if she might be right.

I'm also very worried about what this is doing to the children, all of this every day access. It is not something that could continue if he decides not to return to the M and I worry that their hearts will be broken all over again.

I'm also wondering what everyone's families say about the break ups and divorce busting/getting back together? My whole family think I'd be out of my mind to take H back after this. They don't see how I could ever trust him again. They also don't think he is a good dad and that the kids would be better not seeing him every day. It makes it so difficult to know what I want or how I truly feel. He has destroyed my world twice now, who's to say he wouldn't do it again?

[Irish M]

Hi IP

Great hearing from you. I'm not happy that your H is still cake eating but I'm happy you are still here working on yourself. It's not your H putting your life on hold it's you. I think you still need time to process everything.

Your exercises are now competed. Is there a next step, more homework to work on with H?

To answer your question. My family and friends think that I should never ever take her back. She did this twice as well and abandoning the girls both times. I see that she is sick and like any other desease I would never quit on her and walk away. At the same time if she doesn't want to get better then I can't help her. She would have to do so much work. I let mine go and we'll see later on where she ends up. it's a long way away so I will live my life as if she's not coming back. Where I'll be later on will decide what I do. My choice. One thing for sure if she doesn't do everything she needs to do and is a complete person, I won't even look at her.

Until you are able to sit back and really see what you want for your life and you take full control of it, you will be in limbo. DB'ing and waiting for your H to cook is not limbo. He's the one in limbo. You are just watching him to closely.

Love those kids and love yourself :-)

Hugs
Irish

[inpain]

Hi IP

Great hearing from you. I'm not happy that your H is still cake eating but I'm happy you are still here working on yourself. It's not your H putting your life on hold it's you. I think you still need time to process everything.

Hi Irish, it's interesting you say the above, my Mum says the same, that it is me putting my life on hold. It does confuse me though, because I feel like I'm waiting for H to make a final, definite decision. I don't feel like I have any other choice but to wait for him to do that. The only way I could not have my life on hold would be to tell him that I don't want him back. You're right, I do still need time to process everything, I am feeling very, very confused and torn about my feelings and I can't seem to make sense of it all.

Your exercises are now competed. Is there a next step, more homework to work on with H?

H has been working nights since we last did the book. Finally tonight he asked how many more exercises there were left to do. I told him we'd already done the last one and he said he hadn't realised. He asked what is next so I read out the final paragraph to him. It suggests making a contract about how you will treat each other with respect in the relationship. Obviously it cannot apply to us as we have no relationship of the marital kind right now. H fell silent and then said he was going home as he was tired. I asked him what conclusions he drew from the book and he said he drew none. I asked where that leaves us and he said, "We continue moving forward." I asked what moving forward meant to him and he said he didn't know, he has no idea and no plans. (Arrrgggghhh!!) I just said, "Oh," and screamed internally. He then said he thought we should go out on our own and suggested our favourite restaurant.

I know I keep saying this, but I'm so confused. A few months ago I'd have been jumping for joy at H suggesting this, now I feel empty, afraid and numb. I know it is a huge step that everyone here would be so grateful for. His overall behaviour just irritates me now. The way he comes round and literally sits in a chair for hours on end. Is that the way he wishes to live now? To just sit surfing the internet whenever he isn't at work, or is it a "fog faze".

He also acted like a child tonight when our S had an outburst and threatened to 'just leave'. I worry so much about the negative behaviours he is showing our S. It makes me so sad.

When he left he kissed lent towards me and kissed my hair.

To answer your question. My family and friends think that I should never ever take her back. She did this twice as well and abandoning the girls both times. I see that she is sick and like any other desease I would never quit on her and walk away. At the same time if she doesn't want to get better then I can't help her. She would have to do so much work. I let mine go and we'll see later on where she ends up. it's a long way away so I will live my life as if she's not coming back. Where I'll be later on will decide what I do. My choice. One thing for sure if she doesn't do everything she needs to do and is a complete person, I won't even look at her.

Thanks for answering my question Irish. It sounds like your family feel the same way towards your W as mine do to my H, and with good reason too. This also worries me. How could anything ever be right again when my family feel this way towards him?

Until you are able to sit back and really see what you want for your life and you take full control of it, you will be in limbo. DB'ing and waiting for your H to cook is not limbo. He's the one in limbo. You are just watching him to closely.

Love those kids and love yourself :-)

Again I know you are right. I just don't know how to figure it out. I have so many conflicting thoughts:

I don't want to continue watching H treat S how he does yet I don't want the children to grow up in a 'non traditional' family unit.

I don't want to live the rest of my life without a partner yet I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't respect me and cherish me.

I don't know how I'm every going to make sense of it all.

Thank you as always for your post and help, I appreciate it so much Irish.

[Irish M]

Hi IP

I understand how you can be confused. You loved this man for so long and he's acting in a way you just can't comprehend. You want to wake up from this horrible dream you are having.

I think if your H woke up, did the work and rebuilt the relationship into a more mature one that finally shows that he grew up. Your family would accept him back as long as they see him treating you the way you deserve to be treated, they'll accept him.

You will too, if he does the work.

When I say move on its more for you to get where you need to be. Your H may be like this for another month or maybe 5 years. We don't know and you have no controle over him. You do control yourself.

There's nothing wrong with waiting for your H to wake up. I just don't want it to make you lose yourself. You are an amazing person. Your kids will witness your strength in all this.

You are so much stronger , you got this :-)


Ohhh, your mum sounds very cool

Irish

[cubebot]

I agree with Irish. Please don't take this wrong, but I don't think your H has done ANY work. You said,"do these exercise or no more coming to the house". So he did the exercises. He did the minimum required. He needs to do the work, and he hasn't. He just did what you told him to do. I don't know what to tell you to do, but I do feel like he hasn't expressed remorse, guilt, or made an effort on his own to move things forward in the right direction. i DO think he will, but you need to stop enabling him doing the minimum.

You are a great person and the point of doing this the right way, is to make it the last time you up in this sitch, not just to fix things for now.

I'm no vet, not by a long shot.

[cubebot]

Oh, and change the Wifi password. Lets see if that is why he is coming round. if you need instructions on how, just ask.

[inpain]

Hi Irish

I think if your H woke up, did the work and rebuilt the relationship into a more mature one that finally shows that he grew up. Your family would accept him back as long as they see him treating you the way you deserve to be treated, they'll accept him.

You will too, if he does the work.

Yes, you're probably right. Actually, my Dad did say he was no longer welcome in his house ever again last time H did this but he gradually accepted that we were back together and that things were going well. Mind you, H didn't behave anywhere nearly as bad as this last time, or for as long!

When I say move on its more for you to get where you need to be. Your H may be like this for another month or maybe 5 years. We don't know and you have no controle over him. You do control yourself.

There's nothing wrong with waiting for your H to wake up. I just don't want it to make you lose yourself. You are an amazing person. Your kids will witness your strength in all this.

Thanks Irish! I see what you mean. I did feel that before H started coming round more frequently that I was getting on with my life quite well, considering. I was enjoying life every day and found myself quite often realising I was back to my fun loving self now that I wasn't weighed down by H's permanent nitpicking at our S. I suppose what I meant by not being able to move on was in the real sense rather than my emotional self. I feel like I would need access arrangements and financial matters sorting to feel that I could move on. While H is still able to walk into the house and stay as long as he likes, whenever he likes, I feel trapped in this limbo. Everyone is telling me to 'run for the hills' so to speak. It makes it so hard to know what I truly want.

Ohhh, your mum sounds very cool

Haha, thanks! She is! She doesn't stand for any nonsense, H wouldn't stand a chance with her lol!

[inpain]

Hi Cubebot, thank you so much for posting, I appreciate as much help and opinions as I can get!

I agree with Irish. Please don't take this wrong, but I don't think your H has done ANY work. You said,"do these exercise or no more coming to the house". So he did the exercises. He did the minimum required. He needs to do the work, and he hasn't. He just did what you told him to do. I don't know what to tell you to do, but I do feel like he hasn't expressed remorse, guilt, or made an effort on his own to move things forward in the right direction. i DO think he will, but you need to stop enabling him doing the minimum.

You are absolutely right, he hasn't expressed any remorse or guilt and made no effort of his own accord. Just today I thought to myself that given the current situation and my assumption that doing these exercises was with a view to reconciling, you'd think he'd be on his 'best behaviour' when he comes round and be trying to impress. Every day that goes by he is becoming more and more firm with the kids and I find myself sitting with my head in my hands in despair listening to it all. Just like last time I have done all the work to look at myself and my part in the M issues and change myself for the better and he has done nothing except suit himself.

You are a great person and the point of doing this the right way, is to make it the last time you up in this sitch, not just to fix things for now.

I'm no vet, not by a long shot.

Hmmmm, you're right! I certainly let him back far too easilly last time. He did no work and I let him waltz straight back in. I need to be tougher this time, that's for sure!

[inpain]

Oh, and change the Wifi password. Lets see if that is why he is coming round. if you need instructions on how, just ask.

Yes please! I have no idea how to do that!

[inpain]

The last couple of days haven't been great really. H has picked D up from school and as a result he has been at the house when I've got in from work. He has then stayed until 10pm both nights! Both days I have returned from work to be greeted by S and D in floods of tears because H has banned them from playing on their games console 'forever' for the smallest of misdemeanors! He just has no idea how to parent and this really is my main reason for feeling unsure about a reconciliation. I have started to feel so happy and relaxed, and then and the last couple of days, having to listen to all this from H and kids again, has made me realise that I was stressed out having to 'bite my tongue' when H is doling out over bearing and unrealistic things! It breaks my heart. I have tried everything over the years. I have bought parenting books, read articles found on line and begged him to go to a parenting class and he is not interested because as far as he is concerned he's a great parent.

Tonight he has asked me to go out for dinner, just the two of us, next week. I think he is steering towards wanting to reconcile and I just don't know how it is possible if he cannot change his parenting style. Help gratefully received! I don't know how I'm going to handle this!?

[Zues126]

This isn't DB here, just my two cents.

Let the guy parent how he wants. His parenting problems aren't his problems, they are yours. If he's not beating your children, exposing them to hard drugs, etc, then he's just fine.

He's obviously doing this for a reason. Maybe he wants to make sure that when they are adults they succeed...just like you do. You feel the way to do that is through affirmation and building self esteem. But the pendulum has swung pretty hard that direction what wish child protection being involved if someone takes off there belt, in my mind there is nothing wrong with 'toughening them up'. My kids cry plenty when they don't get what they want, and I don't care AT ALL, and they KNOW I don't care, and guess what, pretty soon they realize the only thing crying is doing is making themselves miserable because it ain't changing my behavior so they decide to let it go and accept reality. And THAT is a lesson I'm proud to help them learn.

I think it's gross for you to walk around thinking your way of parenting is better and right, and that you act like he's something less of a man because he doesn't do it your way. It is dismissive and controlling and entitled. You're not the judge and jury of his parenting. You can sit around with a bunch of your girlfriends and talk about how what he does doesn't jive with your latest parenting book, I just don't see how that's going to help. As far as this being a deal breaker, wow, if you can't be supportive of your H and see the positive in the man he is, please do cut bait because he deserves someone that will build him up and support him as a strong ***EQUAL*** partner.

Funny thing, he gets to parent them either way, so the only question is whether you want to do it in two homes and model a failed marriage and a judgmental mother to your kids.

I'll close by sharing this- during my M I was a distant father and XW was the helicopter SAHM. I will own my decisions, it's not her fault I was negligent and allowed myself to get bullied out of my role as parent...what I will say though is that I felt my parenting was dismissed and criticized and condescended to for 10 years, XW acted like I was just another stupid kid that was good for her to dole out bonding activities for me and the kids so they could have 'exposure to a male role model', as long as she was supervising and could make sure to tell me when I was doing it wrong. LORD HOW DID I PUT UP WITH THIS? SHE WAS A CANCER!

My S11 has been hurt the most, he's only had his father for the last 18 months. Because guess what? Now that XW is out of my hair and life, I am the best dad ever. My kids love me. We're reading Lord of the Rings. We're doing homework. We're hiking. We're working 1:1 to develop their interests. I'm understanding them as people. We're exploring the world together. We're eating healthier. And they're learning how a man lives life and overcomes adversity and acts with character. At this moment I am ***GLAD*** XW left me, because as far as I'm concerned she wasn't mature enough to appreciate what a man she had, as a person, a dad, and a husband. I am better off without her. Sure, she could've made the CHOICE to stay humble, loyal, faithful, and supportive, and if she had done that it would've been great to preserve a marriage. But if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. XW didn't have the capacity to make that choice and so she walked away from an abusive neglectful partner. To this day she rolls her eyes at me as a person, a parent, and an ex, but you know what, her journey, she might cling to that narrative until she dies, but I won't know, because I'll be too busy making amazing things happen in the life of my children and those that are strong enough to appreciate those around them.

[inpain]

Thanks for posting, Zues. Wow! I'm astounded by some of your post to be honest.

Let the guy parent how he wants. His parenting problems aren't his problems, they are yours. If he's not beating your children, exposing them to hard drugs, etc, then he's just fine.

This, especially the highlighted part, amazed me! There is more than one way of damaging children's well being than just beating them! It is not OK to parent how you like regardless of whether it's right or abusive in a non violent way! I think you have me wrong. I'm not some namby pamby mum who lets my kids get away with murder. I'm firm but I'm fair. And yes, it is far better to sit down and explain why behaviours and actions are unwanted or wrong than to just dole out consequences that aren't related to the actions! I have had a lot of training in managing children's behaviour for my job and I certainly have no problem with my children crying because they've been verbally disciplined either. Removing a games console 'for the rest of their lives' however, is disproportionate, unrealistic and ridiculous! It shows lack of ability to think of a 'punishment' that actually fits the crime. Funnily enough, I haven't found my H's parenting style mentioned as a way to parent in any of the text books I had to use to research for my qualifications - for good reason!

I think it's gross for you to walk around thinking your way of parenting is better and right, and that you act like he's something less of a man because he doesn't do it your way. It is dismissive and controlling and entitled. You're not the judge and jury of his parenting.

Sorry, I don't agree at all, and I didn't say he was less of a man. Everyone has a duty to ensure that children are treated correctly - even by their partners! You're honestly telling me that if your XW was treating your children in a way that you believed to be totally unacceptable you would stand there and let her do it and say nothing about it afterwards!?

You can sit around with a bunch of your girlfriends and talk about how what he does doesn't jive with your latest parenting book, I just don't see how that's going to help.

I don't sit around with a bunch of girlfriends - I don't have a bunch of girlfriends that I discuss this with. What I do have, however, is family members who have witnessed for themselves how my H deals with things the children do, and they all feel that it is too harsh etc - and for the record, my parents were very strict so it is not because we are all 'soft'.

As far as this being a deal breaker, wow, if you can't be supportive of your H and see the positive in the man he is, please do cut bait because he deserves someone that will build him up and support him as a strong ***EQUAL*** partner.

How can such a major difference in 'parenting styles' not be a major issue?! Incidents happen every single day! Discord in that area is not going to lead to a happy life! It can hardly be a harmonious M if every time my H deals with the children I do not agree with the way it is done. I am perfectly prepared to support my H if he is fair and loving, but not when he is not. I adored my H - had him on a pedestal until he became this way. I, and my children deserve a loving H and father don't you think?

Funny thing, he gets to parent them either way, so the only question is whether you want to do it in two homes and model a failed marriage and a judgmental mother to your kids.

Yes, you're right, which is why I came on here asking for help on how to deal with the matter, not an ear bashing about how unsupportive a wife you think I am.

I find it interesting that you think a wife should be humble.

I also don't understand why it comes across that LBS should work their socks off to change their erroneous behaviours that have contributed to the M breakdown but that the WAS can just continue with their negative behaviours and not work on themselves at all!

[Irish M]

There is more than one way of damaging children's well being than just beating them! It is not OK to parent how you like regardless of whether it's right or abusive in a non violent way!

I agree with you IP 100% and yes parenting is teamwork. Communication between two stable parents is priority. If one parent needs to step it up because of the lacking other parent it doesn't mean you are belittling the other parent for their short comings. I think you do an amazing job. Your concern about your H is justified based on your situation. You are looking out for your kids best interests. You are a mom.

Discipline of children is always a sensitive issue between couples. One is soft the other is too harsh. That's were good parenting comes in. Work together and find the middle. Respect each others decisions as long as they are not abusive. Banning them from playing on their games console 'forever' is way pout of line. Forever to a MLC'R is an hour or a day depending what cloud they are on. To a small child it is traumatizing.


You and your children deserve peace and harmony. I hope your H realizes that this circus roller-coaster he is on is putting your kids and you in the front seat.

I also don't understand why it comes across that LBS should work their socks off to change their erroneous behaviors that have contributed to the M breakdown but that the WAS can just continue with their negative behaviors and not work on themselves at all!

I see where you can get that message from certain posts. In my case and I believe in your situation because we have been through this twice already and the first time around was brushed under the rug. We have been walking on eggshells and living with a deep down fear that it will happen again. Well it did. I know my STBXW is broken. Did I add to her breakdown maybe. Was I the cause NOPE. She never voiced the issue that was growing inside her head. Waited to run away. Avoid all responsibility. I feel your H is the same. Like a teen hanging out at a friends house.

You are doing great. Your H is missing tools to be a complete person. Hopefully he is working on it. You don't need to change your core person. Just be true to yourself, be strong for your kids. Your H has a lot more work to do than you.

hugs IP

Irish

[cubebot]

Oh, and change the Wifi password. Lets see if that is why he is coming round. if you need instructions on how, just ask.

Yes please! I have no idea how to do that!

I have been thinking about this, and I'm not sure it is the right thing to do. Is there no cafe's or place he can get wifi? There probably is, right? I don't think he is there for the wifi. I just see doing this as a an unnecessary point of conflict. Maybe try asking him to not be on his phone so much and if he wants to be in your house with the family, be there. If not, be else where. I'M NOT A VET. I think just let it go.

I think this is just something that my prior to BD passive aggressive self would do. I'm working on that.

[inpain]

I agree with you IP 100% and yes parenting is teamwork. Communication between two stable parents is priority. If one parent needs to step it up because of the lacking other parent it doesn't mean you are belittling the other parent for their short comings. I think you do an amazing job. Your concern about your H is justified based on your situation. You are looking out for your kids best interests. You are a mom.

Hi Irish, thanks as always for your post, is always great to hear from you! I was so relieved to see that someone agreed with what I put as Zues' post upset me to the point that I was actually in tears. I am heartbroken for my children about how their Dad behaves towards them. Before I had children I would never have dreamed that my H would become the kind of Dad that he is. I never dreamed that anyone would be any other kind of dad than how my dad was when I was growing up - I thought that's what all dads are like.

You and your children deserve peace and harmony. I hope your H realizes that this circus roller-coaster he is on is putting your kids and you in the front seat.

You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, I don't think he does realise it at all. Either that or it is complete denial because he cannot take ownership of the pain he has and is causing the kids. It's one thing to cause pain to your spouse, who you perceive has caused pain to you, but the kids have done nothing.

I see where you can get that message from certain posts. In my case and I believe in your situation because we have been through this twice already and the first time around was brushed under the rug. We have been walking on eggshells and living with a deep down fear that it will happen again. Well it did. I know my STBXW is broken. Did I add to her breakdown maybe. Was I the cause NOPE. She never voiced the issue that was growing inside her head. Waited to run away. Avoid all responsibility. I feel your H is the same. Like a teen hanging out at a friends house.

Yes! This ^^ is exactly right! I feel that my H is acting like a teen. He certainly isn't in the real adult world. Apart from work he has no responsibilities and is calling all the shots. Then has the gall to tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing with regards to the kids and house when he comes round!

You are doing great. Your H is missing tools to be a complete person. Hopefully he is working on it. You don't need to change your core person. Just be true to yourself, be strong for your kids. Your H has a lot more work to do than you.

Yes, I agree H has a lot more work to do than I. I'm very afraid that he doesn't have the tools required. Even through this time of immense heartbreak I am now at a place where I actually feel quite content and am enjoying every day at work and with my kids when I get home. H, however, looks more and more tired and down every day that goes by. When I look at H's family I can see why he is the way he is and that worries me. I fear that it is ingrained in him from way back and I do not think he can change.

I feel frightened about what to do/where to go next, to be honest.

[inpain]

I have been thinking about this, and I'm not sure it is the right thing to do. Is there no cafe's or place he can get wifi? There probably is, right? I don't think he is there for the wifi. I just see doing this as a an unnecessary point of conflict. Maybe try asking him to not be on his phone so much and if he wants to be in your house with the family, be there. If not, be else where. I'M NOT A VET. I think just let it go.

I think this is just something that my prior to BD passive aggressive self would do. I'm working on that.

Thanks Cubebot, I think you're probably right about it not being the way to go. As for asking him to not be on his phone so much - that never worked before he left so I doubt he would do it now. His response used to be, "If I want to be on my phone I will, if you don't like it you know what you can do." When I look back at things like this I don't know how I didn't see the BD coming.

[inpain]

We have only seen H for a few minutes all weekend because of his shifts. Saturdays are full of different hobbies that the kids and I do and then today we had some shopping to do so it has been a busy weekend. Still found myself doing lots of thinking though. I really don't know how to handle going out for a meal with H on Wednesday. I don't even know how I feel anymore. I feel so relaxed and happy when he isn't here and so stressed and on edge when he is because of his constant niggles at the kids. I don't know if this is tainting my feelings or if genuinely don't feel anything for H anymore. I still feel like I'm in love with the idea of being with H, but the old H, and I really don't want the kids to live in a broken home, but I don't feel any love for H. I hope it is as many of you have said, and that my feelings would return if H did the work, but I'm not sure. Everyone around me is telling me that they cannot believe I would even consider taking him back. My mum is appalled at the idea. It makes it all the more hard to know what to do.

I wonder if I'm at the stage where I should be setting out what I think reconciling would need to look like or if I should still be waiting to see what H says and does.

[inpain]

Feeling sad tonight at the endless heartaches this situation brings. It just seems to be one thing after another no matter how much GAL we do.

Last night S11 found something I'd made for him when he was about 6 (I do a lot of crafting) while he was tidying his room. He sat on his bed and asked if I remembered when I made it for him. I said I did. With that he burst into floods of tears with his shoulders slumped. He was crying because he said everything was so happy and different when I made it. Bless him, he is such a sensitive boy anyway and all of this is so confusing and soul destroying for him. I gave him lots of hugs, of course, and we sat and talked and I managed to cheer him up, but it just broke my heart to see him so upset.

[Rouky]

IP, I can only imagine how much strength it must have required you to not cry with your son. If H's presence in the house is hard, could there be a way where you would drop the kids where your H is staying.
Just a thought. Thank you for being there for me :-). Look after yourself and your beautiful children xx

[inpain]

Hi Rouky, thanks for posting! I hear what you're saying about dropping the kids somewhere for H. It is really hard for me to know what to do and how to approach things. H comes round every day and stays until he wants to go to bed, unless it is a day where his shifts prevent him doing so. It's almost like he's living here except for sleeping! I've been allowing it to continue like this while we did the exercises in the book but don't think it is healthy for the kids to continue this way much longer. If we don't reconcile then they will be so used to seeing him all the time and the hurt will go back to square one I fear.

Tonight WAH and I are going out for a meal. His suggestion after I asked what was next after we finished the counselling exercises in the book. Really not sure how to approach things. Not sure what his motivation is for doing it. Whether he sees it as a step towards reconciliation or what, I don't know. We went out for a meal about 3 weeks into this mess and it didn't end well. I expected "I want to come home." and I got, "I have nothing to say." Trouble is too, I don't know how I feel anymore. I feel like I'm done and that again I have done all the work to become a better person and he has just spiralled along in a whirlwind doing no work on himself. I'm going to just play it by ear and let H lead the conversation etc but I can't say I'm looking forward to it. If you'd asked me a few months ago how I'd feel if H asked me to go to dinner with him I'd have said I'd be thrilled! Now I just feel 'meh' about it.

[Irish M]

If you'd asked me a few months ago how I'd feel if H asked me to go to dinner with him I'd have said I'd be thrilled! Now I just feel 'meh' about it.

IP , that's sounds more like detaching and not getting your hopes up. Which is good. I truly hope the supper went well. H initiated it and you don't expect anything from it. Many here would love that.

if it was a good night , enjoy it and hopefully your H sees what he's missing. If it turned bad, you are less angry and hurt.

Either way , you control your emotions.

Irish

[inpain]

Thanks Irish. I truly appreciate your post as always. My thread seems to have become very quiet.

IP , that's sounds more like detaching and not getting your hopes up.

I hope you're right Irish. As you know I have been worrying a lot about my own feelings, feeling like I'm done and don't want H back. Maybe it is just as you say, that I have detached.

The dinner went OK but it seemed obvious that we each had different reasons for being there. For me it felt like an awkward first date where I wasn't sure I wanted to be there. H seemed to be treating it like any other dinner date we might have had when we were properly together. He said nothing of the situation we're in, or his thoughts for the future, so I didn't either. It was all just polite chit chat about work, the food and the weather (it snowed heavily while we were there).

In the car on the way home H commented that we should maybe go out again next week somewhere cheaper (he had chosen a very expensive restaurant). He then said, "We didn't go out enough did we?" Interesting comment as that was one of my major complaints over the last few years and he was never bothered! Maybe he has been doing some thinking about what has brought us to this point.

He looked like he was welling up when we pulled up outside the house and made his excuses not to come in (my Mum was babysitting and he is clearly avoiding my family like the plague).

He hasn't said anything further about another dinner date next week but I will wait and see. I'm certainly not going to pursue the matter - no pursuing, detach, detach!

[Irish M]

hi Inpain
I think you handled that perfectly

- No relationship talk (that old relationship is gone)
- No expectation (it was a first date)

I understand why your H wouldn't come in. Before he can reconnect with you he doesn't want to be judged. He knows he messed up. It will take time for him to really open up to your family. That will happen only when he feels comfortable with you.

Continue what you are doing. You are the prize, let him continue to win you back.

How are the kids? Have they falling into the routine of daddy not being there? I/m sure you are being amazing with them. They are lucky to have a string mom.

take care
Irish

[inpain]

hi Inpain
I think you handled that perfectly

- No relationship talk (that old relationship is gone)
- No expectation (it was a first date)

Thanks Irish!

I understand why your H wouldn't come in. Before he can reconnect with you he doesn't want to be judged. He knows he messed up. It will take time for him to really open up to your family. That will happen only when he feels comfortable with you.

Yes, you're right. I think the bigger worry though is my family accepting him if he 'comes back'. They are all so disgusted with his behaviour, the way he has gone about this and the way he has treated me and the children since: like toys to pick up or discard whenever the mood strikes. None of my family think I should even entertain the idea of a reconciliation. As far as they're concerned he is untrustworthy, unreliable and not a fit husband or father.

Continue what you are doing. You are the prize, let him continue to win you back.

I am starting to believe that I am a prize, maybe that is DBing in action? I now see that while I, of course, did contribute to our M problems, I have been put through some hard to forgive things from H and he is not owning his share at all. I have got through the last almost 6 months with dignity and my head held high and coped much better than I ever imagined I could. I still make sure I look nice and even when H has been his worst to me or the children I have remained calm. So, yes, I am a prize. Sadly H doesn't seem to see that and judging on past experiences, he will do the bare minimum to win me back, but we will see. He will need to do so much work on his parenting to win me back. At this moment in time, that issue is the thing that makes me lose respect for him. He is nothing like I imagine a dad should be and it breaks my heart.

How are the kids? Have they falling into the routine of daddy not being there? I/m sure you are being amazing with them. They are lucky to have a string mom.

They are falling into a routine of this weird life that H is imposing on us all whereby I do everything to take care of them and he shows up every day, sits in a chair and offers the occasional command or punishment, then leaves. It is becoming very draining. I feel like I should enforce a boundary of him coming round less but don't want to hurt the kids any more than they already are. It is like he still lives here with the exception of sleeping here. I find it very strange.

Our D is coping exceptionally well but for S it is a different story. He is really struggling with it all. He is regularly in tears and rants and shouts at H when he comes round. I encourage him to talk about his feelings with me when D is in bed but I think he just wants H to acknowledge the pain he has caused and H just gets angry if S mentions it.

H had come in before I was even up this morning and was there, sitting in the chair as normal. He stayed for about an hour and then S started to react to his orders and he left saying that he couldn't stand to be around S any longer.

I am feeling disheartened to be honest. We've had a lovely couple of days as it is Bank Holiday weekend here. We've been busy GAL and had great fun. Then as soon as H arrives you can feel the whole household slump its shoulders. I am struggling to see a way back to a relationship with H, not just for me but for S too. It makes me so sad.

[Rouky]

Inpain I see that you are doing your best given the circumstance. You are very strong to have your husband coming in every night. I don't want to be the devil's advocate but if you were D and lived in two different households, would you allow your H to come and stay in your house every night? He doesn't seem to have lost nothing as you pointed out the only difference is not him being there in the evening. Maybe it would be better for you and your kids if you put in place a visitation schedule.

Just my thoughts.

[inpain]

Hi Rouky! It is fabulous to hear from you! I really value your opinion so much!

I don't want to be the devil's advocate but if you were D and lived in two different households, would you allow your H to come and stay in your house every night?

No, you're right, I wouldn't even be letting him in the house at all! This is something that is on my mind constantly. I know that it cannot continue, I guess I am just too scared to push for anything else.

He doesn't seem to have lost nothing as you pointed out the only difference is not him being there in the evening. Maybe it would be better for you and your kids if you put in place a visitation schedule.

Yes, you are right Rouky. My Mum says he has lost nothing but his responsibilities. He is cherry picking all the nice bits with the kids and having none of the responsibility of looking after them. It is like he thinks this 'new normal' that he has created is actually how divorced people live. He seems to see nothing wrong with the situation. I know I need to take the initiative and do something to change it but I am not sure how to handle it. Sometimes I think he is thinking of reconciling, with the dinner date last week, for example, but then in between times I hear nothing from him via text etc. H used to text me all the time when we were together.

My Mum thinks he is just trying to push and push and push until I 'do the dirty work' of putting in place a schedule so that he can then file for D and blame it all on me pushing him.

[ciluzen]

Hey, IP. You've been so kind to drop in and check on me- I thought I'd return the favor. I can see how much stronger you are in your posts!

It might be time to get tough. Do you think you are ready? Go ahead and do the "dirty work" as your mum said. So he files for D and blames you. "Pushing him" to not be a lump in the chair and actually step up to being a parent isn't really legit grounds for D. Anyway, how is that so different than now? He'll still have a schedule and have to support his family. The gestures of doing the workbook and "dating" must mean something to him or he wouldn't even attempt it. Setting up a schedule and not being a doormat might just wake up the respect for you that he seems to be missing. Of course he might lash out like a spoiled brat forced to clean his room first, but what have you got to lose? Him?

I, personally, would love to see you take the reins in this situation and drive HIS cart for a bit. I think you are strong enough.

[Rouky]

IP I fully agree with Ciluzen, I think you need to drive the car now. I fully understand how scared you might be, but I guess for your own sake you have to do it. I was dreading to go for separation but I didn't have the choice as once my house sold there would have been nothing that I could have used as leverage. I was worried that it'd ruin my change of saving my M, it hasn't as nothing has changed.

What could be the worst case scenario? He has ready left you, him filing for divorce I'm not too sure as it costs a lot, even if he does you are already living separately so it's a kind of D isn't it?
Think about your kids and it affects them, and how it affects you. You are the most important person right now, and I'd not be so harsh if I didn't consider you as a friend. Please do what is right for you at the present moment.

Thinking of you (((((((hugs))))))))

[inpain]

Hey, IP. You've been so kind to drop in and check on me- I thought I'd return the favor. I can see how much stronger you are in your posts![/quote

Ciluzen, hi! I am so happy to hear from you on my thread again, I've missed you!

[quote=Ciluzen]

It might be time to get tough. Do you think you are ready?

Am I ready? I'm not sure, but I do know that I have had enough of the situation as it stands, so I guess that makes me ready!

Go ahead and do the "dirty work" as your mum said. So he files for D and blames you. "Pushing him" to not be a lump in the chair and actually step up to being a parent isn't really legit grounds for D. Anyway, how is that so different than now? He'll still have a schedule and have to support his family. The gestures of doing the workbook and "dating" must mean something to him or he wouldn't even attempt it. Setting up a schedule and not being a doormat might just wake up the respect for you that he seems to be missing. Of course he might lash out like a spoiled brat forced to clean his room first, but what have you got to lose? Him?

You are right, nothing will really change if I do 'push' other than I will stop being a doormat and he will no longer be able to cake eat. I also think you're right about the workbook and 'dating', I think they do mean something to him, but I just do not like his half-heartedness towards them. I really do think I deserve better than someone who cannot make up his mind about me in 6 months despite me being the mother of his children!

I, personally, would love to see you take the reins in this situation and drive HIS cart for a bit. I think you are strong enough.

I really want to Ciluzen, I think about it constantly and I think the problem I have is that I'm not really sure how to do it but it still be in a DBing way - or maybe there isn't such a thing as doing it in a DBing way. It will be 6 months on Monday since he walked out and I am ready for a change in circumstances. He calls all the shots and the kids and I just dance to his tune. I need to change that!

[inpain]

IP I fully agree with Ciluzen, I think you need to drive the car now. I fully understand how scared you might be, but I guess for your own sake you have to do it. I was dreading to go for separation but I didn't have the choice as once my house sold there would have been nothing that I could have used as leverage. I was worried that it'd ruin my change of saving my M, it hasn't as nothing has changed.

What could be the worst case scenario? He has ready left you, him filing for divorce I'm not too sure as it costs a lot, even if he does you are already living separately so it's a kind of D isn't it?
Think about your kids and it affects them, and how it affects you. You are the most important person right now, and I'd not be so harsh if I didn't consider you as a friend. Please do what is right for you at the present moment.

Thinking of you (((((((hugs))))))))

Aww, thank you Rouky! I consider you to be a friend too. I couldn't have got through the last few months without our 'chats' on here. I know you and Ciluzen are right, and I feel a need to take some kind of action now myself. I'm just not sure how to go about it in a DBing way, but as I just mentioned above in my reply to Ciluzen, maybe there isn't a way to do it the DBing way?! Every time he comes round now he makes it unpleasant. It feels like the kids too are fed up of him turning up, sitting around and then leaving to go to bed. They know it is not how any of their friend's divorced parents behave. I just don't know what to do about it as I don't want the kids to see it as Daddy was starting to come back but Mummy pushed him away. Ugh, this is all so hard and tiring on the brain! I am not sleeping well the last few weeks because I clench my teeth in my sleep when I'm stressed - I am so stressed I almost wake up with lock-jaw!

[ciluzen]

How to do it in a DBing way?

1) Set boundaries. That IS DBing. That includes setting a schedule, setting personal boundaries, and (since HE left the house)making sure he asks permission to enter the house. He should not come and go as he pleases. That is not healthy for you or your children. If your boundaries cannot be accepted, there needs to be consequences. Change the locks. If support is withheld, pursue a legal agreement. Check into legal means to back up your boundaries.

2) Focus on you. Also DBing. What are YOU comfortable with? What decreases YOUR stress in this situation? This is not a time to worry about what he thinks or what he will do in response to your actions. This is about you. What do you want?

3) You can do these things cheerfully, firmly, and calmly. Show your strength through your quiet resolve. If he defends his actions or protests yours, validate his feelings; but tell him, "this is what I need to feel secure about this situation". Don't worry about him. This is for you.

4)Don't make speeches, fight about it, or allow his behavior to affect your behavior. Validate and let things flow like water off of a duck's back.

DBing is actually simple in theory. Validate feelings without always agreeing with him. Remain calm (or "Don't Panic!"), cheerful and upbeat IN HIS PRESENCE. Don't pressure or pursue. Don't believe anything they say and 50% of what they do (easy to do if you are focused on you, not them).Focus on you and your needs. Set boundaries. GAL (again, focus on you, not him). Live in the present, not the past...be mindful of the future but not fearful of what hasn't happened yet. All of this will help you detach.

You know all of this.

[inpain]

Thanks so much for this post Ciluzen, I really feel like I need some direction and someone to 'hold my hand' through this!

How to do it in a DBing way?

1) Set boundaries. That IS DBing. That includes setting a schedule, setting personal boundaries, and (since HE left the house)making sure he asks permission to enter the house. He should not come and go as he pleases. That is not healthy for you or your children. If your boundaries cannot be accepted, there needs to be consequences. Change the locks. If support is withheld, pursue a legal agreement. Check into legal means to back up your boundaries.

I do see what you're saying here, and it kind of makes sense, do I just sit him down and say to him that this isn't working for me and I want him to come round less? It seems like it would be pushing him away when he was 'possibly' taking steps towards a reconciliation? (I say possibly because there have been no words of affirmation of this so far). I've looked into changing the locks and that is illegal here while he is still named on the mortgage so cannot do that if it came to it.

2) Focus on you. Also DBing. What are YOU comfortable with? What decreases YOUR stress in this situation? This is not a time to worry about what he thinks or what he will do in response to your actions. This is about you. What do you want?

Right now him not being here decreases my stress. The kids and I are so happy and carefree when he is not around. He only has to be in the door ten minutes and he is onto one of us about something petty and changes the atmosphere. I don't know how he ever got so grouchy! The trouble is, I put my needs below the kids' I suppose. I just don't want to see them hurt any more than they already are and it feels like I would be the bad guy if I tell H he can't come in the house any more. This is my main stumbling block to being more assertive I think.

I don't foresee a problem with me remaining cheerful, firm and calm - I have been that for months now (yay me!) but I know H well and can already picture him flying off the handle, I think this puts me off too.

[quote=Ciluzen]4)Don't make speeches, fight about it, or allow his behavior to affect your behavior. Validate and let things flow like water off of a duck's back.

OK, most of these I'm absolutely 100% sure I can and will do, except the 'don't make speeches' bit. How do I change the route we/I am on without making some kind of speech to him about wanting to change the way he sees the kids?

I feel I am doing great at GAL. I am so busy and genuinely happy when H is not around. H was a no show today (again on a weekend day off - hmmm) but we didn't actually miss him and the kids didn't mention him or ask why he hadn't come round! D had a dance class this morning and S and I had a different activity at the same time that we do together. Then we came home for lunch and the kids had some down time on their games while I cut the grass - proud of myself for that, because it is usually H that does it and I managed to refill and start the mower! It is no mean feat cutting the grass - our garden is huge! Whilst cutting the grass and walking backwards and forwards to empty the grass box I noticed all the empty pots and decided we needed to brighten the place up for summer. So the kids and I went to a garden centre and chose plants together. It was quite late when we got back so I only managed to plant the front garden ones but plan on doing the rest tomorrow. Then we've had a lovely cosy evening together before they went to bed. Going to do some crafting now in my craft room before bed. Pretty good day!

[focus22]

That sounds so lovely, looking after your garden like that x

[Rouky]

IP you are going so well. I'm proud of you. You have more strength than you think. Could you go out while H is at the house? Not very single day but a couple of days a week? Enjoy the rest of this lovely weekend.

[Irish M]

Hi IP
You are doing amazing.. That feeling of being happy when your H is not around is great. You are doing things for you and your kids and detaching.

Once you put those bounderies in place of schedualed visits you will avoid a lot of stress. The fear of you pushing him away is just that a fear. You want H to want to do the work needed for him to want to reconcile. You don't want him to just fall into place and nothing was learned from all this.

It's Mother's Day here in Canada, I'll wish you happy Mother's Day because you are a great mom.

Irish

[ciluzen]

Thanks so much for this post Ciluzen, I really feel like I need some direction and someone to 'hold my hand' through this!

How to do it in a DBing way?

1) Set boundaries. That IS DBing. That includes setting a schedule, setting personal boundaries, and (since HE left the house)making sure he asks permission to enter the house. He should not come and go as he pleases. That is not healthy for you or your children. If your boundaries cannot be accepted, there needs to be consequences. Change the locks. If support is withheld, pursue a legal agreement. Check into legal means to back up your boundaries.

I do see what you're saying here, and it kind of makes sense, do I just sit him down and say to him that this isn't working for me and I want him to come round less? It seems like it would be pushing him away when he was 'possibly' taking steps towards a reconciliation? (I say possibly because there have been no words of affirmation of this so far). I've looked into changing the locks and that is illegal here while he is still named on the mortgage so cannot do that if it came to it.

Well, bummer on the lock changing. No, don't sit him down. No, don't tell him what you "want". Tell him what you NEED. In front of him. While standing. It is not a discussion, its a statement. You are taking the keys from a drunk driver and you are driving the car now.

2) Focus on you. Also DBing. What are YOU comfortable with? What decreases YOUR stress in this situation? This is not a time to worry about what he thinks or what he will do in response to your actions. This is about you. What do you want?

Right now him not being here decreases my stress. The kids and I are so happy and carefree when he is not around. He only has to be in the door ten minutes and he is onto one of us about something petty and changes the atmosphere. I don't know how he ever got so grouchy! The trouble is, I put my needs below the kids' I suppose. I just don't want to see them hurt any more than they already are and it feels like I would be the bad guy if I tell H he can't come in the house any more. This is my main stumbling block to being more assertive I think.

I just realized how dissatisfied and negative my H is with every aspect of his life right now...this weekend. It isn't even just me he's upset with anymore. Its everything in his life. Trust me. This can get worse...and its not just you. You are not the bad guy...and he, deep down, probably knows it. Or will figure it out. So, be assertive and don't stumble at all. Its a consequence of his actions, not a character flaw in you.

I don't foresee a problem with me remaining cheerful, firm and calm - I have been that for months now (yay me!) but I know H well and can already picture him flying off the handle, I think this puts me off too.

Why wouldn't it put you off, LOL!? What an incredibly NORMAL human response to someone flying off the handle! See, there's nothing wrong with you. Practice no response, or at maximum, validation with no "but" followed by you turning away and disengaging. Validation, such as "I understand this is upsetting to you." Aaaand....scene.

[quote=Ciluzen]4)Don't make speeches, fight about it, or allow his behavior to affect your behavior. Validate and let things flow like water off of a duck's back.

OK, most of these I'm absolutely 100% sure I can and will do, except the 'don't make speeches' bit. How do I change the route we/I am on without making some kind of speech to him about wanting to change the way he sees the kids?

I feel I am doing great at GAL. I am so busy and genuinely happy when H is not around. H was a no show today (again on a weekend day off - hmmm) but we didn't actually miss him and the kids didn't mention him or ask why he hadn't come round! D had a dance class this morning and S and I had a different activity at the same time that we do together. Then we came home for lunch and the kids had some down time on their games while I cut the grass - proud of myself for that, because it is usually H that does it and I managed to refill and start the mower! It is no mean feat cutting the grass - our garden is huge! Whilst cutting the grass and walking backwards and forwards to empty the grass box I noticed all the empty pots and decided we needed to brighten the place up for summer. So the kids and I went to a garden centre and chose plants together. It was quite late when we got back so I only managed to plant the front garden ones but plan on doing the rest tomorrow. Then we've had a lovely cosy evening together before they went to bed. Going to do some crafting now in my craft room before bed. Pretty good day!

Hey, IP! Happy Mother's Day! Is that just a U.S. and Canada thing? It shouldn't be. I think I will take an idea from you and get some flowers for the front walk with my younger D today. I have a few empty pots to fill.

As for not making speeches? Just don't. I'm a speech maker. I'm obviously wordy. But my 180 has been to just make statements to my H when I want him to actually hear me. Otherwise, I find that as has happened over the years, he expects the speech and tunes me out. All of it. So...look him in the eye with a small smile/ pleasant look to your face (practice in the mirror) and then make a brief, to the point statement. Follow that with a big smile and a, "I am very firm on this. I hope you understand I feel its best for our sanity/ health/ scedule/ emotional health/ security (pick one or two to go with the statement)." Nod your head for emphasis if you have to. Then walk away and busy yourself elsewhere. Or go somewhere. Leave him and ignore him (trust me, there will be behavior to ignore after that). Don't engage. No arguing. Not your circus anymore.

I'm proud of your GAL stuff! I knew you could do it! Remember how we were back during Christmas holidays? Change happens right under our noses.

[ciluzen]

Just letting you know, I wrote in the quote box, too, but you might not notice unless you scroll down the box.

[Rouky]

Hi IP how are you? How are the kids doing?

[Irish M]

Hi IP
Hope all is well. We're here for you :-)

[inpain]

That sounds so lovely, looking after your garden like that x

Thanks focus22, it is lovely, but very hard work too. I cannot handle the size of garden on my own, sadly.

[inpain]

IP you are going so well. I'm proud of you. You have more strength than you think. Could you go out while H is at the house? Not very single day but a couple of days a week? Enjoy the rest of this lovely weekend.

Thanks Rouky. Sometimes I do feel strong and other times I don't at all. In the beginning I was leaving the house when he came round but now if I try to the kids cry and beg me not to go. They are so hurt and confused and it pains me to see them like that so I don't go.

[inpain]

Hi IP
You are doing amazing.. That feeling of being happy when your H is not around is great. You are doing things for you and your kids and detaching.

Once you put those bounderies in place of schedualed visits you will avoid a lot of stress. The fear of you pushing him away is just that a fear. You want H to want to do the work needed for him to want to reconcile. You don't want him to just fall into place and nothing was learned from all this.

It's Mother's Day here in Canada, I'll wish you happy Mother's Day because you are a great mom.

Irish

Hi Irish, thank you for the Mother's Day wishes! I love the part above about H doing the work to reconcile and me not letting him back with no lessons learned. I need reminding of this. I know that last time he learned no lessons and I let him come back far too easily.

[inpain]

Well, bummer on the lock changing. No, don't sit him down. No, don't tell him what you "want". Tell him what you NEED. In front of him. While standing. It is not a discussion, its a statement. You are taking the keys from a drunk driver and you are driving the car now.

Hi Ciluzen, thank you so much for all of your advice - it is amazing! I have tried really hard to be firm but it hasn't gone well and I am still no further on. I have told him the last two weekends that I need this 'new normal' to stop, that I need him to stop coming round whenever he likes if he has no intention of reconciling. It was met with a stony, silent face. He sat looking annoyed for a long time. At one point he looked like he might be wiping a tear away from his face. Then he snapped out of it, carried on as normal with the kids and has continued coming round every day just the same as before I said it.

I just realized how dissatisfied and negative my H is with every aspect of his life right now...this weekend. It isn't even just me he's upset with anymore. Its everything in his life. Trust me. This can get worse...and its not just you. You are not the bad guy...and he, deep down, probably knows it. Or will figure it out. So, be assertive and don't stumble at all. Its a consequence of his actions, not a character flaw in you.

I love you for this! It was like a light went on in my head when I read this, thank you! I think you're right, it is everything. He is grumpy about everything. He has zero patience with the kids AND other people out and about (other drivers for one example!).

Why wouldn't it put you off, LOL!? What an incredibly NORMAL human response to someone flying off the handle! See, there's nothing wrong with you. Practice no response, or at maximum, validation with no "but" followed by you turning away and disengaging. Validation, such as "I understand this is upsetting to you." Aaaand....scene.[quote] I think H has been reading your advice to me Ciluzen! This is what H does - every time! I have tried to do it these last two weeks and it just causes him to say, "I know, I'm sorry." Then it's back to square one. I don't know how to get through to this guy!!!

Hey, IP! Happy Mother's Day! Is that just a U.S. and Canada thing? It shouldn't be. I think I will take an idea from you and get some flowers for the front walk with my younger D today. I have a few empty pots to fill.[quote] Thanks for the Mother's Day wishes Ciluzen! Yes, we do have Mother's Day here but it is earlier in the year. It was middle of March this year. Did you get some flowers? I'm so pleased with how my doorstep looks now.

[quote=ciluzen]As for not making speeches? Just don't. I'm a speech maker. I'm obviously wordy. But my 180 has been to just make statements to my H when I want him to actually hear me. Otherwise, I find that as has happened over the years, he expects the speech and tunes me out. All of it. So...look him in the eye with a small smile/ pleasant look to your face (practice in the mirror) and then make a brief, to the point statement. Follow that with a big smile and a, "I am very firm on this. I hope you understand I feel its best for our sanity/ health/ scedule/ emotional health/ security (pick one or two to go with the statement)." Nod your head for emphasis if you have to. Then walk away and busy yourself elsewhere. Or go somewhere. Leave him and ignore him (trust me, there will be behavior to ignore after that). Don't engage. No arguing. Not your circus anymore.

LOL Ciluzen, we are so similar! I'm a speech maker too. I did walk away when I had said what I needed to happen. I went outside and cut all of the grass - took about an hour and a half - I came back inside to find H still sitting there with the same annoyed expression on his face. Nothing I do seems to be getting through!

I'm proud of your GAL stuff! I knew you could do it! Remember how we were back during Christmas holidays? Change happens right under our noses.

I certainly do Ciluzen, and I know we are tonnes better now. I definitely don't want to go back there!

[inpain]

Hi Irish, Rouky and Ciluzen. Thank you for looking in on me. I'm sorry I haven't responded before now. I just seem to have been so busy! As you will see from my individual responses to your posts above, I have tried to tell H that I need this situation to change with regards to access to the kids etc. It has fallen on deaf ears. The last two weekends I have tried to get through to him on the issue. This weekend he responded with, "I'm sorry for all the stress, I am still deciding." !!!!! Still deciding!?!?! I told him I thought that was pretty of entitled of him to assume that he can keep me dangling like a puppet for 6+months and still be deciding. I'm not sure if that could be construed as DBing but it just slipped out. Still nothing has changed. He is still coming in and staying all evening. I don't now where else to go with it now. S11 has asked H repeatedly this weekend if he is coming back. H replied, "I don't know, I can't tell you because I don't know." Sigh.

On a much happier, GAL note, I had an amazing weekend other than the H parts. I went to a rock concert with a friend, someone I have always wanted to see since I was in my teens. It was absolutely incredible. I haven't stopped smiling or come back down to earth since! I think it shocked H. I went to quite a few concerts in my younger days, before I met H, but this is the first one I have been to in around 20 years! It is really late here so I'm not sure if I'll get round all your threads tonight, but will be back tomorrow to do so. Thank you all for your support, it means the world to me!

[Irish M]

Hi Inpain

Love the GAL. So happy you went to the concert. First one in 20 years wow. Funny how we put our lives on hold and concentrate on our kids and spouse. Nothing wrong with that but we tend to put aside the things we like to do.

As for you dangling like a puppet. Take those strings away from him. You are only dangling if you want to dangle. It's all up to you how you play this out. Your H still hasn't faced any reality of what he did. I think that is why after 6 months you feel like you are still in limbo. Let Inpain move forward and let H catch up.

So much happiness within ourselves and with our kids. Your H is the one missing out ... not you :-)

Take care and keep those concerts coming .

Irish

[inpain]

Hi Irish, great to hear from you!

Love the GAL. So happy you went to the concert. First one in 20 years wow. Funny how we put our lives on hold and concentrate on our kids and spouse. Nothing wrong with that but we tend to put aside the things we like to do.

Yes, I hadn't really thought about the fact that I used to go to concerts and then haven't been to one since being with H until I was there at the concert, then it hit me and I wondered why on earth I hadn't been to one sooner! You might have heard of the guy I went to see - he's from Canada !!!

As for you dangling like a puppet. Take those strings away from him. You are only dangling if you want to dangle. It's all up to you how you play this out. Your H still hasn't faced any reality of what he did. I think that is why after 6 months you feel like you are still in limbo. Let Inpain move forward and let H catch up.

It is funny that you post this today. I have had the exact same things said to me from my parents this afternoon when I went round there in tears thanks to another 'talk' with H. I have to admit, I'm scared. The only next step I can see is to tell H I no longer want him to come in the house and to see a solicitor. It scares me and it breaks my heart. I don't see how any of this can be fixed unless H sees the reality of what he did and is still doing and accepts some responsibility for the breakdown of our M. Again today he has blamed it all on me and he apparently is the perfect, model H!!! So after six and a half months, when I thought I was doing so well at detaching and getting on without him I'm crying and lonely and just incredibly sad that it is over. I wanted the same happy home for my kids that I had and that is what tears me apart inside the most.

So much happiness within ourselves and with our kids. Your H is the one missing out ... not you :-)

Yes you're right, he is, yet sadly he doesn't think he is missing anything!

Take care and keep those concerts coming

I'm already searching for some tickets!

[Rouky]

What a great GAL, you go girl :-)! I fully understand where you come from about being scared, unfortunately fear is what is holding us up from moving forward. It's really difficult because we are holding onto something that no longer exist and that at the back of our mind we will always wonder what if we had done things differently .

What I have learnt from all this is that I had lost myself in my M. I had become a doormat and I had no respect for myself, so how can H have some for me.

I think now you need to focus on you and put potential R on the back burner. So far you have been incredibly strong and I can see your H is a fool, but you have to save yourself first. Like everyone says put the oxygen mask on first!
I'm 14 months in this mess. H isn't showing any sign of wanting to R or save M, even though it hurts me I have to accept that it's over. I find acceptance he hardest part of it all. In time your tears will fade away, and you'll realise that there is nothing you can do, your H is on his journey and you can't fix him.
Take care of yourself Inpain
((((((Hugs))))))

[Irish M]

Hi Inpain.. a Canadian artist... I'm hoping Brian Adams but i think you will answer Beiber.
|It's great you found something you loved to bo before your life with H. Taking back the old Inpain ,old in a good way :-)

I have to admit, I'm scared. The only next step I can see is to tell H I no longer want him to come in the house and to see a solicitor. It scares me and it breaks my heart. I don't see how any of this can be fixed unless H sees the reality of what he did and is still doing and accepts some responsibility for the breakdown of our M.

Scared is normal. It's change. Change you didn't ask for but you need to take control over. Your H wants out so It's time you take the drivers seat and let him scramble around you. Not to torture hum or punish him but he needs to realize that he made this choice and consequences are that he can't just come and go as he pleases. Will is shake him up. Who knows. He has a long way to go. You have your life to live the way you want it. Not being a hostage to his MLC.

Again today he has blamed it all on me and he apparently is the perfect, model H!!! So after six and a half months, when I thought I was doing so well at detaching and getting on without him I'm crying and lonely and just incredibly sad that it is over. I wanted the same happy home for my kids that I had and that is what tears me apart inside the most.

I wanted and still want the same for my girls. You are still a happy family you and your kids. Your parents, relatives etc. Your H is the one missing out. Make your home a home the kids feel loved and happy in. Your H can look through the window.

you got this. I really believe in you.

((Hugs))
Irish

[inpain]

Hi Inpain.. a Canadian artist... I'm hoping Brian Adams but i think you will answer Beiber.

Beiber!?!?!?! I didn't even know he was Canadian, I'm far too old to be into Beiber lol. Of course it was Bryan Adams! Love him! Have wanted to see him live since I was a teen so it was a real dream come true...and he didn't disappoint - he was AWESOME!!!!

Scared is normal. It's change. Change you didn't ask for but you need to take control over. Your H wants out so It's time you take the drivers seat and let him scramble around you. Not to torture hum or punish him but he needs to realize that he made this choice and consequences are that he can't just come and go as he pleases. Will is shake him up. Who knows. He has a long way to go. You have your life to live the way you want it. Not being a hostage to his MLC.

Thanks for this Irish, I really need to hear something like this today. Things have not gone well at all this week and I have been close to tears at work and actually in tears at home. I feel like I'm back at the beginning with it all. I seem to have lost my DBing head and am devastated once again by H's lack of movement either way. He has said today that his heart isn't in it so won't be going out for any meals, he just wanted to be able to say he'd tried everything. Everything except marriage guidance or IC that is, or any other kind of professional help. So once again I'm reeling and also frustrated with myself for getting sucked back in, thinking there was hope.

I wanted and still want the same for my girls. You are still a happy family you and your kids. Your parents, relatives etc. Your H is the one missing out. Make your home a home the kids feel loved and happy in. Your H can look through the window.

you got this. I really believe in you.

((Hugs))
Irish

Thanks Irish! Sitting in tears reading this because it just hurts as I know we all know and it means so much to read these words, thank you.

[inpain]

Hi Rouky, great to hear from you my friend!

What a great GAL, you go girl :-)! I fully understand where you come from about being scared, unfortunately fear is what is holding us up from moving forward. It's really difficult because we are holding onto something that no longer exist and that at the back of our mind we will always wonder what if we had done things differently .

You're right, and I am struggling to come to terms with the fact that it no longer exists. This is my big stumbling block I think. I just cannot accept that it is over and that there will never be a time that my H looks at me lovingly again.

I think now you need to focus on you and put potential R on the back burner. So far you have been incredibly strong and I can see your H is a fool, but you have to save yourself first. Like everyone says put the oxygen mask on first!
I'm 14 months in this mess. H isn't showing any sign of wanting to R or save M, even though it hurts me I have to accept that it's over. I find acceptance he hardest part of it all. In time your tears will fade away, and you'll realise that there is nothing you can do, your H is on his journey and you can't fix him.
Take care of yourself Inpain
((((((Hugs))))))

At least reading these words I know that I am normal to be finding it so hard to accept this new reality. Thank you Rouky. You're right, I have allowed myself to get caught up on a wave of hope since H wanted to do that book and now it has all come crashing down and I'm sitting in tears once more.

[inpain]

Well things couldn't really get any worse here at IP mansion. I am back feeling like I have messed everything up yet again. Driven WAH away before he had even come back. I went out for tea with friends I used to work with on Tuesday. H looked after the kids at our house. When I got back H's face was thunder and he asked hadn't I got his text. No, I hadn't, my phone was on silent as I'd forgotten to turn it back on from my meeting earlier in the day. S and H had had words and S was now at my Mum's! Mum ended up bringing S back and came in to face H about it. They were arguing and I just stood there pretty much in shock that it was even happening.

Back in probably January when S was in tears every one of H's visits and H just dismissed his tears cruelly, my Mum had told S that if he was ever upset he could call her and go to her house. I thought it was asking for trouble but nothing ever came of it so I'd forgotten all about it. Never mentioned it to H because at the time he was barely speaking to me.

Now I'm the bad guy for not mentioning it to H and for letting there be such an arrangement. I had no part in the arrangement at all. H has said that this incident is the final straw in making him realise he can never come back. He has been painted to be the bad guy with my Mum, he says. He thinks I have said bad things about him to my Mum. All I have ever done is tell the truth about how he is when he comes round. S has told my Mum too but H doesn't believe that, he thinks it is all me.

Why didn't he take me out for another meal as he'd promised after the previous one? "It just didn't seem to happen," was his reply. ?????????? Meals don't happen on their own, they have to be booked and the person invited.

I know my DBing head slipped these last few weeks since the meal. I held it together but then when there was no further forthcomings from H I started to temp check. Now there is no chance. H took the day off yesterday and came round at lunchtime with a view to going out for the afternoon. I could come if I wanted he said. None of us ended up going and I ended up pouring everything out about how I feel to H while the kids played outside in the garden.

I just want to curl up in a ball and cry forever. I don't want my M to be over. I don't want a D. I can't have what I want and I can't do this anymore.

[Natus]

With a H like that are you sure you want save the M?
Pardon me for saying so but he sounds like a d!ck.

[ciluzen]

IP,

You're ok. I know this hurts, but you are beating yourself up as if you have any control over the situation. You don't. You cannot control what your H does, so why waste your time blaming yourself for "messing up"?

As much as you have no control over your H, you do have control over you and to a large extent, your reactions. I think because we are in crisis mode, we start worrying about every little reaction and how it will affect our H's behavior. We are trying to do things that only have what we perceive to be a positive effect on our H, with hopes that they will eventually add up and turn our H back to us. That hope carries so much weight that when what H does doesn't fall into line the way WE want, we fall apart because we "did everything right". Well, stop that nonsense. Because that's what this is...nonsense. There is no "right".

Stand back and look at what you have. You have two beautiful children. You have parents who are there for you and those children. You have a job and a work history. You have a home that your H has left you in...but you are in. You have started some attempts to GAL. This is you right now. Where will you be in 6 mos?

Pretend H has left and moved across the world and there is no possibility of his return. Wrap your mind around that. What will you do then? Make a plan. Put your H out of the picture. It can be done.

I'm doing it right now. I know I still report on my H on my thread...I still love him deeply. But I try to look at his actions as if I am studying him. Detached (still trying to,at least) He is inwardly a mess and is trying to sort that out on his own timeline...not mine. I've decided to quit blaming him and let him. As long as I don't pressure him, demand of him, make him feel that I expect him to do anything, we can talk and be easy with each other. I don't often contact him. I make myself available to him when he does talk to me on his own. I ask him how his parents are. How work is. I wish him good day and a good night. I thank him for little things...genuine thanks. I just listen and validate. No suggestions, no critiques. Just listen and emphathize. He needs that right now while he's in crisis. And I let him live his life while I try to figure out mine.

I'm not perfect. I lost my sh&t last weekend. I then waited to call him later when I could control MYSELF and let him know I was angry. I said "I am very, very upset with you". I then gave him my reasons why. CALMLY. It allowed him to open up and share some deep issues that caused him to act a certain way. We ended up laughing and having a good conversation. The original issue is left unresolved, but I had to let it go or go mad. Maybe he will deal with it...maybe not. My lawyer can deal with it if he doesn't.

You CAN do this, IP. Whatever "this" may be that is within your control.

If "this" is get on with your life and be happy about it...yes, you can. It will take an enormous gargantuan effort on your part, but it will get easier. And you have family to support you.

If "this" is getting your H back and living happily ever after, maybe. Maybe not. Not actually within your control. But if you choose to work on the former "this" instead, and are patient...well. That is a story still unwritten.

[Irish M]

Hi IP

You know what they say in MLC or WAH, things get worse before they get better

getting better is all up to you. You control it.

You H will blame you if he wants to blame you . You can't avoid it.

If my D's called my mom about me if say great. You son did well. He felt uneasy after sharing words with his dad and your S needed to feel safe. Your moms is the best lave to be. Under normal conditions your H would of had a discussion with his son an dnot have a heated moment.

Don't take it on you. Your H is to blame and he's projecting it on you. Step back and look at it again.

It does get better I promiss :-)
Hugs

Irish

[inpain]

Thanks Natus, Ciluzen and Irish, I appreciate your words so much!

I don't really feel any calmer than when I posted the other day, despite GAL a lot with my kids (it's a school half term holiday here).

As much as you have no control over your H, you do have control over you and to a large extent, your reactions. I think because we are in crisis mode, we start worrying about every little reaction and how it will affect our H's behavior. We are trying to do things that only have what we perceive to be a positive effect on our H, with hopes that they will eventually add up and turn our H back to us. That hope carries so much weight that when what H does doesn't fall into line the way WE want, we fall apart because we "did everything right". Well, stop that nonsense. Because that's what this is...nonsense. There is no "right".

Thank you Ciluzen, I needed to read this. You are spot on with what you say here and it describes exactly how I'm feeling!

Stand back and look at what you have. You have two beautiful children. You have parents who are there for you and those children. You have a job and a work history. You have a home that your H has left you in...but you are in. You have started some attempts to GAL. This is you right now. Where will you be in 6 mos?

I do have so much to be thankful for you are right (again :)) and I know H is losing so much more than me. Where will I be in 6 months? I'm terrified of where I'll be. All I can see in my future is my devastated self hugging and crying myself to sleep because I've had to spend the weekend without my babies while they are with their Dad. That's all I can think about, the whole access thing. My children are with me all the time and we do everything together. We have spent the majority of their lives going out and about without H due to his, quite frankly, appalling shift times. No matter how I try to look at it (that they need to see their Dad, etc, etc) I just cannot get past the unbearable heartache and stomach churning sickness it gives me. I don't want to spend a day without my kids and it is all I can think about.

My posts probably read like I am not trying, but I really am, I put so much effort into being happy every single day, but I am struggling now to see which direction to go with my DBing. I can't go dark and NC because of the kids. Help?!

This is an example of H these days. Yesterday he came round for an hour and didn't talk to me, then as he went to leave he told me he wasn't ignoring me he just didn't know what to say to me. He said his head is a big mess from it all.

Today he text 'Are you in or out?' at 7:20pm. I replied with 'In'. He replied 'OK'. That was it. Twenty minutes later he walked in and sat in 'his' chair in the sitting room. He didn't speak to anyone. S was playing a game and D and I were playing a game together. They didn't acknowledge he had walked in and neither did I. Not sure if that's the right way to go but I find it rude that he just walks in without even greeting any of us. After thirty minutes or more S spoke to H and H announced he had to leave to go to work! So his entire visit today lasted about 50 minutes, spent in silence. What is the point?!

Any suggestions on where to go with this situation?

You H will blame you if he wants to blame you . You can't avoid it.

If my D's called my mom about me if say great. You son did well. He felt uneasy after sharing words with his dad and your S needed to feel safe. Your moms is the best lave to be. Under normal conditions your H would of had a discussion with his son an dnot have a heated moment.

Don't take it on you. Your H is to blame and he's projecting it on you. Step back and look at it again.

Thank you for this ^^ Irish! H has a great skill of being able to make me believe everything is my fault. He is a genius at it! Thank you for pointing out to me how he is projecting, I can see it when you point it out! H is certainly blaming me for everything at the moment. It is my fault he left. His EA/PA? and the associated lack of trust has nothing to do with it. It was one tiny mistake (according to him, which isn't even accurate, it is at least three HUGE mistakes!). He is totally blameless and smells of roses. I, on the other hand, am a horrible person through and through. I know this because he told me on Sunday! He says he shouldn't get as angry with me as he does and that is why we will never work. What is terribly sad is that he cannot see that it is not just me he gets so angry with. His anger is a problem in him and will not go away just because he divorces me. Maybe he is in MLC after all to not be able to see this.

It does get better I promiss :-)

Can I just skip to the part where it is better please?! I want to get off this particular train.

[Roxi]

Inpain-

Be strong for your kids. They are watching. They are looking to you as a role model. What you do now and how you treat their father will be an example for them when they are dating and ready to find a mate. I have spoken to my kids about the gift of forgiveness and they are not ready to hear it. D21 told me I was not setting a good example for her by waiting it out with my H, and I said her world view at 21 is very different than mine at 50. She doesn't understand. 10 years ago I would have never thought I was a "stand by your man" kinda gal, but maturity does that to you. And I am not afraid to be on my own (as daughter pointed out.) It just feels like the right thing to do at this time.

[Irish M]

IP. sadly there is no fast forward of skip to the end. I now know after months of this that I needed to grow. My Daughters need it too. Sometimes I think we were all in a mild depression. STBXW's just took a wrong turn into MLC.

You getting off the train is your choice. Next stop IP ( I progress) . Your self development is so important in all this.

I've seen other couples go through breakups and both are lost forever in self pity, anger and regret.

IP, I see that you will take control of yours and steer your self to the better life. Your kids and yourself deserve it.

wish I could send you a video I made, me and my girls at a Canadian animal safari . amazing day and i look at it often and see them smiling and it shows me that I can do this. So can you :-)

hugs
Irish

[inpain]

Inpain-

Be strong for your kids. They are watching. They are looking to you as a role model. What you do now and how you treat their father will be an example for them when they are dating and ready to find a mate. I have spoken to my kids about the gift of forgiveness and they are not ready to hear it. D21 told me I was not setting a good example for her by waiting it out with my H, and I said her world view at 21 is very different than mine at 50. She doesn't understand. 10 years ago I would have never thought I was a "stand by your man" kinda gal, but maturity does that to you. And I am not afraid to be on my own (as daughter pointed out.) It just feels like the right thing to do at this time.

Thank you Roxi, I really appreciate you posting, our situations seem very similar. I hear what you're saying about being a good role model for our children, although I do sometimes worry that as well as modelling standing by vows I'm also modelling how to let someone treat you badly and how to be a doormat (sigh). I find that I am really not sure which one it is myself anymore. I find H's lack of any kind of decision and direction ridiculous. I have a hunch that he knows exactly what he wants and is just too afraid to do it (my hunch being he has no intention of coming back but is afraid to see a solicitor).

I also know what you mean about having a different perspective than younger people. I work with some people your daughter's age, one of them is married and she is always telling me, "He's not worth it, he's not worth your tears." Of course, she has no children yet and cannot see it from a mid 40s person with two kids perspective, but like you, if I'd have been given this scenario when I was younger I'd have thought I'd have just walked away if H had an affair.

[inpain]

IP. sadly there is no fast forward of skip to the end.

IP, I see that you will take control of yours and steer your self to the better life. Your kids and yourself deserve it.

Hi Irish! (Sigh) If only there were a train station I could get off at. I'm so tired of this journey now.

I wish I could see what you see: me taking control and steering towards a better life. All I see is confusion and pain ahead of me for many years to come. At the moment the kids are my main cause of painful thoughts. I just do not want to miss a single moment or day of my kids' lives and I know that if H does not return to our M then I will miss out on lots of days and times with them. I cry every time I think of it. Everyone around me says, "Think of the time alone you'll be able to have." Well that doesn't help me because I don't want time alone from my children. I went through so much to have them (long story) and it is my place to be with them every day. Custody of children and swapping them to and fro is, in my opinion, the most dreadful thing about D. It breaks my heart all over again.

I wish I could send you a video I made, me and my girls at a Canadian animal safari . amazing day and i look at it often and see them smiling and it shows me that I can do this. So can you :-)

That sounds wonderful Irish! I know the feeling you describe. We have just had half term holidays here and I have a few videos of the kids having fun and they make me feel the same way when I watch them.

[inpain]

Lots of GAL activities with the kids the last few days as it has been half term holidays. We ended up having a few days away with my parents in their caravan. Not far away from home but it was nice to get away and also to not sit on my own in the evenings. When the kids weren't in earshot Mum and Dad and I did a lot of talking about H and the situation. I don't think they can ever forgive H for what he has done and they are adamant they don't want me to even entertain the idea of a reconciliation. Even when they see me in tears at the thought of the kids being with H every other weekend they think that would be better than us getting back together. It worries me that they feel this way. Deep down I feel as though they are right and it makes me so sad. When I look back over all the painful things H has done over the last 10 years I feel ashamed to have 'settled' for it.

We got home late from our camping trip and then had a family party to go to the following evening, so all in all, we didn't see H at all for 4 days.

Stupidly I'd hoped our absence might have provoked something in H but no. He came round last night all smiles for the kids and barely spoke to me. We are back to him leaving as soon as they are in bed. Before he left he told me that he wasn't ignoring me but he just didn't have anything to say and was tired.

I really don't know what my next steps should be. As far as H will allow I have been dark and NC for months now in that I only text when he texts, I wait a long time before replying and keep my replies brief and to the point. I have done all sorts of GAL - I feel like I don't stop!

A month ago it seemed it was working - with the meal and everything, but now it seems my Mum was right about all that and it was just H going through the motions so that he could say he's tried everything before filing for D. (He actually said he now knows he tried everything and it didn't work last weekend.)

[rich4j]

[quote=Irish M] At the moment the kids are my main cause of painful thoughts. I just do not want to miss a single moment or day of my kids' lives and I know that if H does not return to our M then I will miss out on lots of days and times with them. I cry every time I think of it. Everyone around me says, "Think of the time alone you'll be able to have." Well that doesn't help me because I don't want time alone from my children. I went through so much to have them (long story) and it is my place to be with them every day. Custody of children and swapping them to and fro is, in my opinion, the most dreadful thing about D. It breaks my heart all over again.

Inpain- my heart breaks for you from the above. I know the struggle as the plan was never to have kids and only see them part time. It is not fair...
Besides the heartache of losing a loved one in the marriage, the pain in this area is harder in my opinion

I am in the same boat with you. I didn't sign up for seeing my D part time...not fair. It is the hardest part IMHO of divorce if you have kids of this age. And free time...whatever....I would rather spend it with my daughter.

I hope the time you can spend with them is precious and just let them know always how much you love them which I am sure you do. I am not sure what you have told them but when the time comes if they don't know your situation, the will figure it out. My D is too young for me to put the blame on the WAW as it won't have any positive impact. But one day...I will let her know the scoop

There is no easy road with the kids but accepting it and cherishing the time you have with them.

[Irish M]

A month ago it seemed it was working - with the meal and everything, but now it seems my Mum was right about all that and it was just H going through the motions so that he could say he's tried everything before filing for D. (He actually said he now knows he tried everything and it didn't work last weekend.)

Hi IP
Mine said the same thing. Also provoked conflict so she said she tried and I didn't. All to justify their choice and actions. It's very common, I've read it in so many stories here.

As for you parents never forgiving your H ( if he puts on his big boy pants)
They will accept him if they see you happy. They will probably vote against it but as time passes and they see he has matured and is out of his identity crisis , they too will accept him.

You shouldn't let that drive your decision.

Those parents that are happy to see their kids every second week are sad. Society has driven families to break up. Part time parenting and no structure from both sides. Any parent that needs a week off after a week with their kids should never have been parents in the first place . It's selfish.
My STBXW hated hearing moms say that . "Ohh its great no kids for a week I can do what I WANT. " only now she's become worse than them... Not seeing them at all


Hugs to you IP

Irish

[Roxi]

The not seeing kids is hard for me too. My D 22 moved home from college and is living with my mother-in-law because I took in my nephew (15 yo) because my sister died 8 years ago and his step- mom kicked him out. He's a good kid who made a bad choice. Much like my MLCer I feel. S18 goes between my and my H's house. It's been hard on everyone and watching them do family activities we used to enjoy as a family without me is tough. My best advice is keep the communication open while they're young. Our family was always close, but last year when H was having the A, and checked out and was never home, son got into trouble and D drank like a fish. The captain of the family ship was sinking it and I felt like I was on the Titanic yelling "iceberg!" and no one was paying attention to me. Add to that, I was home bound after a major surgery and the kids were out of control.
Like the Titanic, we all went down with it. Let the kids know you are there to listen to them. We are going to make it through this.

[inpain]

Thank you so much for your support Rich4j, Irish and Roxi. It is comforting and reassuring to know I am not alone in feeling this way. Whilst I know deep down I'm not the only one to feel this way, I seem to be surrounded by people telling me, "It's not that bad!" "You'll come to enjoy it!" etc and it does make me wonder if I am abnormal in some way to feel so strongly about it.

Besides the heartache of losing a loved one in the marriage, the pain in this area is harder in my opinion

You are so right Rich4j. I seem to be consumed by this pain at the moment. I am appalled and dismayed by the very idea.

Mine said the same thing. Also provoked conflict so she said she tried and I didn't. All to justify their choice and actions. It's very common, I've read it in so many stories here.

As for you parents never forgiving your H ( if he puts on his big boy pants)
They will accept him if they see you happy. They will probably vote against it but as time passes and they see he has matured and is out of his identity crisis , they too will accept him.

You shouldn't let that drive your decision.

Irish, I still find it so incredible that they all seem to run to the same script! I feel like a fool for not seeing what my Mum could see so clearly.

I try not to let what they say affect my decisions but it is hard when I am leaning on them so much for support and they voice this opinion. As with you, this is the second time my H has left and my parents said the same last time. I don't think they will be as accepting if he were to come back this time. Particularly because of the pain he has caused/is causing the kids. Last time our S was too young to know anything about it.

Those parents that are happy to see their kids every second week are sad. Society has driven families to break up. Part time parenting and no structure from both sides. Any parent that needs a week off after a week with their kids should never have been parents in the first place . It's selfish.
My STBXW hated hearing moms say that . "Ohh its great no kids for a week I can do what I WANT. " only now she's become worse than them... Not seeing them at all

I totally agree! It is completely selfish! I have spent hours over the last few days reading articles on the internet about accepting being separated from your children because of custody arrangements and feel sick at what I read. Every article is so matter of fact. As you say, it is just so common place and accepted in our selfish society that nobody bats an eyelid. I have never not wanted something more than I don't want this. I don't know how to get past this. I know myself and I know I will never, ever be OK with it.

The captain of the family ship was sinking it and I felt like I was on the Titanic yelling "iceberg!" and no one was paying attention to me. Add to that, I was home bound after a major surgery and the kids were out of control.

Roxi, how awful! I think this describes it perfectly - likening it to being on the Titanic! Why don't our WAS feel this way? I feel like I had children with a fraudster. I keep reading articles saying that doing this to the children and enforcing them to live in two homes is "nobody's fault". I disagree. Our WAS could chose to not enforce this on them but they are chosing not to.

I'm sorry everyone. I know I sound negative and maudlin right now. I am. I am struggling a lot at the moment. I was doing so well, or so I thought. But now I wonder if I was only doing well because H had led me to believe there was a chance he would be coming home? Tomorrow is my 7 month 'bombiversary" and I sit here in disbelief still. Disbelief that it is happening, that it has been that long, and that H has still not filed or reconciled. I am beyond worn out with it all.

[inpain]

'Interesting' night with WAH tonight. This morning he dropped our car off for me to use on his way home (he is living on the same street just a few doors down from our house!) and asked if I wanted us all to have a takeaway tea this evening. I declined as I had leftovers to use up. Feeling guilty, and because I'm a doormat/nice person, I later asked if he would like to join us for the tea I was making. He did. He ate it then fell asleep in the armchair while the kids were trying to talk to him. At one point I woke him and suggested he went home to bed. He promptly fell back asleep and the kids and I got on with our evening. Once they were in bed I woke him again and made him a coffee as I was having one.

He began R talk. He feels he is 'just in limbo' (had to internally chuckle to myself at him using our DB phrase) and can't seem to jump one way or the other. (Gee, tell me something I don't already know!). I asked why he thinks that is. He said that half of him thinks that if he'd wanted to come back he would have come back by now. I validated that and said that the same could be said for the reverse - ie: if he'd wanted to divorce he would have done that by now too. He said he could see what I was saying. Then he started to get very, very angry. Shouting, swearing, blaming everything on me - all over again. He left because I'm a b@%@% and I'm still being a b:%:^ now apparently. Personally I wouldn't have thought a b@:@: would have put up with this for so long, wouldn't have made countless meals and made him welcome despite him walking out and would have been doing all manner of unkind things, not being happy and smiley, but maybe that's just me having a warped opinion!?!?! It doesn't matter about all the EA/PA stuff apparently, no, I should have got over that years ago and wasn't the cause of me being a b:@%& according to him. In the end I just let him spew at me because it was pointless trying to get a sensible word in. He brought up the argument with my Mum from the other week. He is still insanely angry about that too. And, yep, you've guessed it, blames me for that too, despite me being out when it happened and having had nothing to do with the arrangement that caused the argument! He says he doesn't think he should come back because he gets very niggly with me all the time. Again I tried to point out (futile, I know) that it is not just me he gets niggly with and that the issue is inside him. No. That's wrong. It's me. Eventually he left saying he doesn't want to argue and he'll contact me in the morning. I agreed that I don't want to argue either, I just want to know what is happening in my life because I don't want to wave my kids off every other weekend in tears. He said, "I know." and left.

I cried when he left and then thought how incredibly broken he is. He cannot control himself, his anger, his emotions or his thoughts. He repeatedly sat with his head in his hands like a person on the edge of insanity or something. He cannot handle any stress or pressure about this situation at all. And refuses to see that he needs help. I am left feeling how terribly sad it is. This will never be fixed until he wakes up and sees himself for what he truly is. Which means more limbo for me and my beautiful kids. 7 months of this farce. Everyone around me thinks I'm insane and I'm beginning to wonder myself. He also said again that the argument with my Mum has put paid to us reconciling. I am in disbelief that someone would let one event alter the direction of the entire lives of themselves and their children.

I have no idea what my next steps should be. I've gone dark, I've LRTd and I've 180d. What else can I do?

[Roxi]

He is doing what I have read as "monstering"


Right now, he is 2 separate people. When he goes into monster phase, you can't reason with him. He's not your husband. They make you the enemy.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Next time he tries to begin the R talk, I would listen to him and say, "Hmmm, interesting." "I've never thought of it that way." "That's something to think about." "You're right. I should (fill in the blank)". Don't feed the monster. You can never win against them.

[Irish M]

I agree with Roxi
I've made the mistake and tried to reason with my STBXW when she went monster.

Only makes it worse..you end up arguing to validate your point.. he says crazy things and rewrites history and finishes by saying ... "you see, we should break up, it will never work."

I have no idea what my next steps should be. I've gone dark, I've LRTd and I've 180d. What else can I do?

just don't do the same things that didn't work. Eventually you will find something that pleases him or works. It won't wake him up but at least you can have a bit of normalcy.

One thing I haven't seen is the boundaries on just dropping by when he feels like it. Set up that schedule. If his schedule doesn't fit yours find some middle ground.

We both have been through this before and it should be a piece of cake right. I wish.

You feeling that your H is ill, can't control himself is good. It will give you some peace that it is not your fault. All you can do is let him go. Get on with your life as if he is not coming back. If he wants back in he'll let you know. Just hope he's fully cooked.

hugs IP , glad you still come here to share.


Irish

[inpain]

He is doing what I have read as "monstering"

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_monster.html

Right now, he is 2 separate people. When he goes into monster phase, you can't reason with him. He's not your husband. They make you the enemy.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Next time he tries to begin the R talk, I would listen to him and say, "Hmmm, interesting." "I've never thought of it that way." "That's something to think about." "You're right. I should (fill in the blank)". Don't feed the monster. You can never win against them.

Oh my goodness Roxi! Thank you so much for the link. This is exactly what he does to a T!!! I like your suggestions of what to say next time. They seem like they would take the wind right out of his sails!

[inpain]

I agree with Roxi
I've made the mistake and tried to reason with my STBXW when she went monster.

Only makes it worse..you end up arguing to validate your point.. he says crazy things and rewrites history and finishes by saying ... "you see, we should break up, it will never work."

Hi Irish, thanks for your post as always. You are so right with this ^^! That is exactly what he says at the end of it! I find it rather scary how they all follow the same script!

just don't do the same things that didn't work. Eventually you will find something that pleases him or works. It won't wake him up but at least you can have a bit of normalcy.

One thing I haven't seen is the boundaries on just dropping by when he feels like it. Set up that schedule. If his schedule doesn't fit yours find some middle ground.

I know, your right, that isn't something you've seen. One reason is I'm too afraid to set them because it means time away from my kids for me, and the other reason is that I just have no idea how to go about setting them with him when he is so unreasonable as soon as I open my mouth! As for not doing what didn't work, I feel like there isn't anything that worked other than pretending I was happy with the situation and I don't feel like I physically have it in me to be so false any more. Feel like I'm the worst DBer ever right now. It has been seven months and the best I can say is I don't cry every day now. That being said, I cried almost all weekend this weekend. S and I did a great GAL activity most of Saturday daytime and raised some money for a local charity, but the rest of the time I sat and sobbed uncontrollably a lot.

You feeling that your H is ill, can't control himself is good. It will give you some peace that it is not your fault. All you can do is let him go. Get on with your life as if he is not coming back. If he wants back in he'll let you know. Just hope he's fully cooked.

I vacillate a lot on this between it is all my fault to not all my fault. I am totally drained from it all and don't feel that I can get on with my life as if he is not coming back because he is here so often and just sits in the armchair as if he still lives here. I know I need to do something about that, and soon, because it is driving me crazy.

Thanks for your continued support Irish, I truly appreciate it.

[ciluzen]

Maybe you should remove the armchair.

[inpain]

Ciluzen! Strangely, my Mum has suggested the same thing lol!

[inpain]

Still not doing very well. I'm in tears again and have been every night this week as well as most of last weekend. Missing H terribly no matter how busy I am.

Wondering how to handle Father's Day? The kids chose cards for Dad and Grandad (FIL) last weekend and I have made sure they have gifts to give them both but not sure how to handle it other than that. Should we go round and take the gifts? Should I wait for H to come here for them to give him them? Should I be doing even more than that? If he still lived here I'd be helping the kids fix him breakfast in bed etc and then cooking a special meal later in the day after visiting my own Dad but obviously that's not going to happen now he no longer lives here. H came round and cooked special meal for me on Mother's Day but that was in his "Thinking of trying to reconcile" phase and he has retreated way back into his "I want a D shell" at this point.

Tired of having to second guess everything I do and tired of being so upset all the time.

[Irish M]

Hi IP

:-(

Not sure what to say to your post. I don't want to tell you what I'd do. I know you are hurting and you must and will get through this. It's not easy, I know.

Mother's Day I missed my W so very much. I decided she wasn't acting like mom so I made no effort for her. My girls did what they wanted to do , which turned out to be nothing as well.

Keep strong. Your H is still very much a lost soul.

Hugs
Irish

[inpain]

Hi Irish

Thank you for your continued support, I appreciate it so much. I can imagine Mother's Day was incredibly difficult and can understand completely why you made no effort. I feel similar to be honest. Granted, my H is still visiting our kids but they can only be described as token gestures at best, as you know.

It spoke volumes last weekend when I was getting them to choose Father's Day cards for him. S didn't want to chose one at all because, "He's being horrible so why would I want to give him a card saying he's the best Dad?" I could totally see his point, of course, but swallowed what I thought. D wanted to chose a lovey card with a verse about being the most amazing Dad etc and S didn't, so they ended up choosing separate cards. S spent a long time looking for one that didn't have any loving words in it, just "To Dad on Father's Day." It makes me so sad to see the effects on my children that this is having and how they feel about the man they should adore and look up to. Even sadder is the fact that H seems oblivious to what S thinks and feels.

I still haven't decided what to do really.

[Irish M]

IP
When you decide what to do ,you will know.
We here give you support. Some give you advice. You still have to decide what's best for you and your kids.

We all live similar issues with our spouses. But only you are dealing with your H. Like i'm dealing with my STBXW. We are not in your house sitting next to him as he sits in his chair.

Even your close friends and family don't really understand that your H is in a personal crisis. They can easily say dump the guy and move on but until they live a day in your shoes, their advice is meaningless.

No Rush IP. Just think of you. I know that sounds narcicistic but it's important. You can't help your H.

Big Hugs to you
Irish

[inpain]

Even your close friends and family don't really understand that your H is in a personal crisis. They can easily say dump the guy and move on but until they live a day in your shoes, their advice is meaningless.

You're right there Irish! None of my friends and family think I should be holding on, or think that H is in a crisis or ill - they just think he's an *$%*%!

In the end I did nothing about Father's Day other than what I'd already done - made sure the kids had cards and gifts to give H and FIL.

H's MLC/depression/whatever we want to call it state was in over drive this last weekend! One minute he was lovely Mr Nice Guy, the next he was furious over nothing and walking out flinging rude gestures at me (Saturday). Sunday (Father's Day here in UK) he was back to Mr Nice Guy messaging to find out what my plans were for the day. I replied that I'd obviously be going to see my Dad but then nothing after that. He decided he'd come round when we got home so it was almost tea time when he arrived. The kids gave him their cards and gift and he stayed through story time. Once they were in bed he thanked me for the gift and said he hadn't expected anything (what does he take me for?) and was equally shocked that I'd also got a gift for FIL from the kids (interesting side note: HE didn't get a card and gift for his Dad from the kids himself!).

Before he left he looked me straight in the eye and said that he knew I needed a definitive answer and that he is a pain and he is working on an answer. I jokingly asked if he was searching for an answer to world peace or our M - he laughed.

Monday FIL walked in to say thank you to the kids for the card and gift (we haven't seen him in person since Father's Day last year and he hasn't communicated with me at all about H leaving!). He only stayed a few minutes.

The last few days H seems to be back to Mr Nice Guy and actually going over board on pussy footing around me and being helpful. Feel very wary as we've been here before during March/April and then nothing but tumbleweeds.

Personally I'm just drained. Tired of feeling tired from the exhaustion of working full time and being a single Mum. D has a lifelong medical condition which means I only ever get 6 hours sleep a night and it is just not enough for me. I am literally dragging myself out of bed each day.

On the plus side, I've had a lot of praise from my boss at work this week and will be getting a little more pay next year for things that I currently do above and beyond for no extra pay - so that's nice!

Upon discovering at the weekend that I could no longer fasten my jeans I weighed myself and discovered I have put on 9lb since Christmas! I have started a diet on Monday and so far I've managed to stick to it - really don't want to let myself slide in this area. I'm a terrible comfort eater so not really any surprise that I've put on weight.

[ATPeace]

Hi inpain

I have just been checking up on your recent posts and all I can say is I feel your pain.

So many times I read that all we can do is focus on ourselves and this is so true we really do have no control on our partners

Be strong and try and let go of the things you cannot control it will get easier for all of us

Hugs

Ghost

[Rouky]

Hi IP, I'm so sorry for not checking on you earlier. Reading your posts reminds me of my situation. You are doing an incredible job and being a single mother isn't easy. You are amazing and stronger than you think.

It's obvious that your brain (like mine few months ago), plays with your emotions. I'm so sorry for that. Our situation were similar ( I use were because now I have my own place, it has changed) due to the fact that H still comes and stays in marital home, then leave.

I can only talk about my experience and how I feel. Like you I was crying a lot, over analysing things and this would drive me bunkers! We never wanted our kids to be put in this situation, nevertheless we have to make dos about it. How often is your H coming round? If it's everyday, would you consider to change it to every other day? I'm telling you this because seeing H so often is what kept my heart bleeding as I was thinking if he comes round is that he still feels something for me! I'm afraid not, he was doing it not to look bad with kids, and he could look good with OW!

After a year I started slowly to rediscover myself because I didn't have as much contact as I used to with H. The day he was coming into marital home I'd be a wreck, but the days he wasn't coming I wasn't crying and started to feel good about myself!

TBH not being in marital home is such a relief! I wasn't even sad when I took my keys to estate agent last week! I don't see H as much now and I'm good. There are the few odds day were I'm like: why this happened to me?.

I can't tell you what to do with your H, so I'm just sharing what worked for me. You need to look after yourself first and if seeing H so regularly is rubbing salt in your wound, you need to attend to it. I know you are going to tell me that if you reduce contact with H, R will never happen.

Please look at your situation, what worse could happen? Our H left us, they seem to get on with their life and not showing any pain. Whereas we are the one broken, crying and in pain. YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN THAT! You deserve to see your wound healing and to have a beautiful smile on your beautiful face!

For the time being our H are gone,the pain will gradually heal but you need to put some distance between you and your H, otherwise you won't heal.

I know my situation is different now because I have my own place, but I can tell you that limited contact with H is helping me to heal faster.

Please look after yourself, sending you loads of hugs xx

[Irish M]

For the time being our H are gone,the pain will gradually heal but you need to put some distance between you and your H, otherwise you won't heal.

I know my situation is different now because I have my own place, but I can tell you that limited contact with H is helping me to heal faster.

Hi IP
There is wisdom in Roukys message. Time apart is the best tool to heal. You need you strength for you kids.
Like Rouky said " what have you got to lose, your H has left you"

In my sitch, not seeing my STBXW at all has helped me get over her. Move on.
I don't like the person she is anyway, why would I associate with someone that has no concern of the wellbeing of her own children.

If one day W appears. She will have the work to do to win us back, if at all possible

Hugs to you IP

Irish

[Rouky]

Hi IP, how are you doing?

[Rouky]

Hi Inpain, how are you getting on?

[Irish M]

Hi IP
Hope you had a good 4th of July

Thinking of you

Hugs
Irish

[inpain]

Hi Irish, Rouky and ATPeace

Thank you all for checking on me and sorry it has been so long. The first week of my absence I was unwell and crashing out in bed as soooun as my children were in bed and since then I have been flat out at work and just plain exhausted!

Rouky, thank you for your post detailing how you dealt with your H. As you said, our situations were incredibly similar. Two weeks ago now I again told my H that I didn't want to continue in this limbo situation any more and that it was time that he had the courage of his convictions by putting a fixed access schedule into place. He looked aghast and asked if I wanted an answer right now. Right now!?!?! It had been 7 1/2 months since he left at that point. I told him I hardly thought it could be classed as me rushing him.

Things have improved slightly since then because he is on a course through work which involves him being out of town from Sunday evening until the following Friday evening. This has been for the last two weeks and will continue for another three. I have to admit I have felt my tension slip away now that I know he will not be visiting every day.

It also seems to have an interesting affect on H. He has been texting me like crazy! Every night wishing me a good night's sleep, every morning asking how I slept and updates every evening about his day and asking about mine. The first weekend he came home he said he'd missed me. He seemed shocked that I didn't swoon at this comment. It is a baby step I suppose but we've been here once before a couple of months ago when he decided to invite me out for dinner. I am so used to day to day life without him now that I'm not sure how piecing would even look! The strange thing is (or perhaps not for a MLCer) he didn't ask about the children that first week at all. Didn't ring them once! That made me very sad. If I had to go away for even one night I would be ringing them to say goodnight. He has managed to ring them once this week though. He insisted we all went out for tea last weekend when he came home. We did go but he managed to spoil it before we even set off by having a tantrum about me not being home from errands I had to run at the time he'd decided he wanted to set off. Totally irrational because he had told me to just let him know when I got home. No time had been set. This kind of thing worries me about how would even cope with being back in the family and all the day to day stresses bringing up children brings.

My diet isn't going to well. I managed to lose 2lb the first week but felt sorry for myself while I was ill and put a 1lb back on. Trying extra hard to be good this week.

OK, enough from me for now. I'm going to check out your threads!

[Irish M]

Hi IP
So glad you updated your sitch.

Him missing you is great. Goes to show you that when he sees you nearly every day he doesn't have a chance to miss you.
I don't think it means he'll snap back but at least he has something buzzing around in his head.

As for him not ringing the kids. It is sad but also expected. Kids are responsibilities. Kids also look at a parent and it clearly shows on their faces what they think. MLC wants none of that. If you'd discuss a bill or invoice to be paid he'd probably run and hide.

Enjoy your time to detach.

You seem to be doing feel and grasping the idea of what is expected from your H.
Answer: nothing

Hugs to you IP x

Irish

[Rouky]

I so fully agree with Irish. Expect nothing from H. From an outsider it looks like what your H needed ( not everyday contact) to start to make him think about what he is about to potentially lose.

Keep stirring the boat as you do, and I believe things will fall into place for you. Hope you are getting back health wise.

Take care IP xxx

[ATPeace]

Hi inpain

I hope you are keeping well what Rouky says is hard to understand I REALLY struggle with this even I know I struggle with,this it does not help and I am finding it impossible to let go.

I too am in the limbo stage I am just scared to get myself out of it. I believe that if I see my W less then she will detach further from me and the next things will be that she will push harder for Seperate houses or Divorce I helpant neither

I like you do not want this but we have no control over this I feel that she has all the control and she will say that she feels I control this as she says she feels trapped and that I am still controlling what she does.

So I struggle with the thoughts of not seeing my children every day and or when ever I want to see them. I also struggle with the feeling or my W detaching from me the loanlyness and the thoughts that I will not only loose my W I will lose my family and my current life .....letting go is hard.

My self esteem has been totally shattered I realise I have very few friends and the ones that I do have are getting sick of hearing my sorrow

I have to keep working on me changing what I can change so when I look in the mirror I like the person I see

We are all in this together I feel your pain

Take care
Hugs
Ghost x

[inpain]

Hi Irish, Rouky and ATPeace, thank you for your posts, I appreciate every one of them and love to hear your thoughts about my situation.

Irish, you are right, I am realising I can expect nothing from H - especially with relation to the kids, but it still makes me very sad that he is not the Dad he should be.

I think you and Rouky are also right about the almost daily contact we've had since H left hindering the situation. There was a fairly substantial shift in my situation this past weekend...

As I said in my previous post, H is away all week at the moment through work. This weekend the kids and I already had plans for Friday and Saturday evenings. Consequently, we only saw H for a couple of hours on Saturday afternoon (yes, him coming in and sitting in the chair acting like he still lives here).

Then, on Sunday he came round wanting to do his washing but I was just about to put a load in myself so he had to wait. I busied myself with housework and he came to find me and suggested we all go on a walk at a local beauty spot. I was reluctant to go and suggested he just take the kids but they were already begging me to come along, so I did. It was just like H and the kids on an access visit and me tagging along like I didn't belong. I felt very uncomfortable. When we got home the kids played out in the garden and H was acting as though we were still happily married, helping with housework, making drinks and trying to look after me as I'm still not 100% back to full health.

I asked him if he had anything to say because he was acting so strangely. Then came the bombshell...he would like to try and work things out and thinks we should go on holiday and take it from there. I was gobsmacked. I calmly asked why he wants to work things out. He said that after all this time he still cares about me, hates to see me upset and that when we go out with the kids he loves it and we are a 'lovely little family and that's worth saving.' Nearly spat my own teeth out at that! It was like he took my own words from my begging and pleading and reasoning phase back when he first left and repeated it all to me as his own thoughts!!!! How crazy is that!?!?!

Since then he has been texting every morning and night, wishing me goodnight etc and has been putting 'x' on the end of his texts. There have been strictly no 'x's on his texts since the minute he left. He has even tentatively checked if it is OK to be putting 'x' on the texts! He seems very concerned if I don't reply: always checking if he has upset me or I'm just busy.

I don't know how I feel and I don't know where to go now with this!!! Part of me wonders if he is saying it all just to cherry pick a holiday altogether with the kids. He has stated himself that he couldn't just move back in and I totally agree that he couldn't. I don't even know what getting back together would look like. I have been so damaged by his treatment of me and the kids over the last 8 months and so has our eldest child. How do you love someone who has done all that to you? I'm rapidly reading DR again for some kind of suggestion about handling this unexpected turn of events. I feel like deep down inside I had got used to the idea that we would never be together again. I feel very confused. Help and advice needed and appreciated, as always!

[rich4j]

I asked him if he had anything to say because he was acting so strangely. Then came the bombshell...he would like to try and work things out and thinks we should go on holiday and take it from there. I was gobsmacked. I calmly asked why he wants to work things out. He said that after all this time he still cares about me, hates to see me upset and that when we go out with the kids he loves it and we are a 'lovely little family and that's worth saving.' Nearly spat my own teeth out at that! It was like he took my own words from my begging and pleading and reasoning phase back when he first left and repeated it all to me as his own thoughts!!!! How crazy is that!?!?!

WOW!!! What a surprise...did you fall over?

I love hearing great news like this but.....be super careful. Is that what you want and want him back "as is"? Lots of healing to do and I would also think that you have to have some conditions for this return. While the return for the "family" is noble and what we all probably begged and pleaded when we shouldn't have a while ago, he has to be coming back for you. And for you both to have the connection you need to heal and get back to a great place. I know I could not go back with my STBX if she said those words without alot of discussion around major issues and how we would heal and move ourselves to a place of understanding the wounds, why they happened and what we needed from each other Hoping you can get there!

[inpain]

I love hearing great news like this but.....be super careful. Is that what you want and want him back "as is"? Lots of healing to do and I would also think that you have to have some conditions for this return. While the return for the "family" is noble and what we all probably begged and pleaded when we shouldn't have a while ago, he has to be coming back for you. And for you both to have the connection you need to heal and get back to a great place. I know I could not go back with my STBX if she said those words without alot of discussion around major issues and how we would heal and move ourselves to a place of understanding the wounds, why they happened and what we needed from each other Hoping you can get there!

Mmmm, well yes rich4j, you've hit the nail on the head. I'm not feeling it at all. I didn't feel pleased or excited when he said it, just felt, "Are you kidding me?!" I don't know if too much damage has been done. I feel nothing except very irritated by his presence. He hasn't apologised for what he has put us through over the last 8 months, hasn't really said much of anything except those words. He came home today from his course and we all went out for tea. I just felt awkward and wished I wasn't there I'm not sure how or if I can get passed these feelings I have towards him. I look at him and just feel like I hate him for what he has done.

[Rouky]

Your H has put you through a bit of an ordeal for the last 8 months, and maybe it's your mind telling you that you need to protect yourself just in case. I think you should take it as one day at a time and see what your H's actions are.

I wish you all the best in whatever you decide. Just keep us posted.
((((((Hugs))))))

[inpain]

Hi Rouky, thank you for your thoughts on it, I really appreciate it. I'm so sad about it, I think it maybe too late. I just don't see how I can ever love H like I used to after putting me through all this. Also, it worries me that I feel happier when he is not here, but I don't know if this is because of everything he has put me through or because I genuinely would be happier without him. He text me on Tuesday to say he loved me. I didn't know how to respond - I don't feel love for him, I just feel angry towards him. Ironically, I liked it better when he wasn't saying he wanted to work it out. Maybe he just took too long? I don't know. It is keeping me awake at night. I know our children would be over the moon to here he was coming home so now I feel like I'm the guilty one for maybe not wanting him to.

I wonder if this is how everyone who has pieced felt in the beginning?

[Rouky]

I remember reading posts that was saying that WS do come back when LBS has finally dropped the rope and by then LBS isn't too sure if s/he wants WS back.

I can't offer any advice because I'm not in this situation, only you know what the right answer is. Look back at everything you have shared with H ( good and bad times), and see what your heart is telling you.

Whichever way you decide to go, I'll be there to support you xx

[JksD]

Inpain, I have been skimming through your sitch.

You say that you're angry with him. Anger means that there's still some attachment. What do you think you will feel after the anger dies down? Indifference?

If you feel indifference, then maybe you truly are over your H.

Is your H willing to put in the work? Are you also willing to put in the work? It may be that you're in the ILYBNILWY stage. You may not be feeling love but do you love H?

At this point in time, your love bank sounds pretty empty because of H's behaviour. If he learns to fill up your love bank, do you think the loce will slowly come back?

[Irish M]

Hi Inpain.

interesting stuff with your H.

I just reminded someone else here... follow your gut feeling.

there is no need to jump into his arms. work has to be done if you both want this. If you are not sure... then that means not sure. Your decisions hasn't been made yet. Let time solve that for you.

Remember . it will and has to be a new relationship.

Anger is still present so let that go. He didn't have an affair, you are a lucky one.

He was and is just a lost little boy that needs to grow up. Hopefully he will and do the things you need him to do. As you needed to see your relationship for what is was and work on you.

give it time. your answers will come.

hugssss
Irish

[inpain]

I remember reading posts that was saying that WS do come back when LBS has finally dropped the rope and by then LBS isn't too sure if s/he wants WS back.

Hi Rouky, thanks for your thoughts, I really appreciate them, as always. It would seem that the above is most definitely true in my case.

Look back at everything you have shared with H ( good and bad times), and see what your heart is telling you.

At the moment my heart is telling me that H has done too much over the years for me to be able to love him and trust him ever again. I feel so sad that I feel like this, for my children's sakes. I look at H and feel nothing though.

Whichever way you decide to go, I'll be there to support you xx

Thank you so much my friend.

[inpain]

Hi JksD, thank you so much for your reply, I really appreciate it.

Inpain, I have been skimming through your sitch.

You say that you're angry with him. Anger means that there's still some attachment. What do you think you will feel after the anger dies down? Indifference?

If you feel indifference, then maybe you truly are over your H.

I think maybe I am truly over him. I look at him and feel nothing. I don't know how I could ever get feelings back for him. This is not the first time he has done this, and there have also been several questionable incidents over the years that have eroded my trust in him.

Is your H willing to put in the work? Are you also willing to put in the work? It may be that you're in the ILYBNILWY stage. You may not be feeling love but do you love H?

H says he is willing to put in the work but so far his actions don't back it up. Speaking from experience of when H has needed to pull out all the stops for a previous major incident that he caused, he doesn't have it in him. He has no idea what to say to someone when he has broken their heart and eroded their trust. He thinks that if he fusses round and makes cups of tea then everything will be alright.

As for me, I'm willing to put in work but I want to feel love for my H - and I don't. I don't want to break my kids' hearts by not letting H come back, but I also don't want to set myself up for years of an unloving marriage - already had far too many years of a marriage with no trust. I really fear things are beyond repair this time.

At this point in time, your love bank sounds pretty empty because of H's behaviour. If he learns to fill up your love bank, do you think the love will slowly come back?

Very good question. I really don't know. All of the previous occasions I have still loved H - just not trusted him. I haven't even cried over him for months now. If I believe Michelle's words then yes it will come back - my heart isn't telling me that at the moment though.

[inpain]

Hi Irish, lovely to hear from you as always, thank you.

interesting stuff with your H.

I just reminded someone else here... follow your gut feeling.

there is no need to jump into his arms. work has to be done if you both want this. If you are not sure... then that means not sure. Your decisions hasn't been made yet. Let time solve that for you.

My gut feeling is to carry on as I am - without him. My whole life is so much calmer and more relaxed without him here and every time he comes round, within minutes, that is shattered.

Remember . it will and has to be a new relationship.

You are so right with this. This worries me though, as when I look at H now and his attitudes to things - if I'd just met him and he was a potential step-dad to my kids - I wouldn't date him at all.

Anger is still present so let that go. He didn't have an affair, you are a lucky one.

You're right, I do need to let the anger go but I am finding that difficult. He has put me through so much and just wants to sweep it all under the carpet and never mention any of it again. I don't work like that unfortunately. I'm not entirely sure on the affair part though. There was that incident in Feb/March when I was told that it was all around our village that he was seeing one of the single mums that lives in the village. He has vehemently denied it, but he would, wouldn't he!? Add this incident to all the other EA incidents over the years and that is one big lack of trust to get over, on top of everything else.

He was and is just a lost little boy that needs to grow up. Hopefully he will and do the things you need him to do. As you needed to see your relationship for what is was and work on you.

give it time. your answers will come.

Part of me does see H like this - a lost little boy. As you say, hopefully time will give me the answers. I just hate that, in particular, my S11 is hurting so much and this is damaging him - so I don't really want it dragging on and on, causing him more pain and anguish. He asks every day if Dad is coming home and says on a daily basis that he hates him.

[Rouky]

I'm so sorry for your son as I can only imagine what it must feel like for him. Your situation is a bit of a funny one as for so long you wanted H to come back and now you aren't too sure. All I can say is follow your gut feeling. You know better than us what your relationship was before, do you see a future? Could you see a change in mariage dynamic if H was to get some counselling ( I remember you indicating possible EA) to really get at the bottom of why he has behaved like that.
If you aren't in a rush, let the answers come to you.
Thinking of you (((((((hugs))))))))

[Irish M]

Hi Inpain xx
you still holding strong :-)

thinking of you

Irish

[rich4j]

So I try to break my feelings down into buckets and see what I can do with each of those and which one is "winning". I agree its like a new relationship so you will need to peel back some of these feelings probably to get the love back if you can.

I see there is a huge trust issue. So maybe its a huge topic you start with that you have to discuss with him to get over the hump withthis. For me, trust is a cornerstone of a relationship and I can't do without it. If you can't turn the corner on this one....then....

Anger/resentment-that may take some time but you have the right to be angry. As some have recommended I would definitely hit counseling together so they can help you break down these things and address each with each other very openly.

Love- well....that will take some time to see if you can get that feeling back. Only you can decide if its worth the emotional investment to overcome the past and start new

[Rouky]

Hi IP, how are you?