She's thinking of leaving again 4

New thread opened. Thanks to everyone who posted on the old one.
She's thinking of leaving again 3

Thanks Sotto. I think I was a bit OTT so I'm going now to see her and just want to diffuse things and keep things amicable.

Good luck... Sottos advice is perfect! You got this!

Well we've met and it was interesting. We sat to eat and I mentioned that I realized by being trying to be overly fair I had messed up the calculations. I asked if she knew I would always try to be honest with her. She said yes with tears in her eyes. We quickly agreed a division which was the same as in December. After that it was mainly me telling her stories of S and work, always smiling and listening when she complained about her R with S. I didn't ask after her life and she must be aware I don't care. She was wearing a new outfit (she always loved the sales) and she went on about the clothes she had seen for me and how she had almost rung me! I laugh and changed topics. After paying for the snack we walked to her car, her linking arms and saying she owed me a dinner, me deflecting with a non committal laugh. At the car she hugged and kissed me, asking did I want her to get me anything from the sales. No thanks. I feel sad and wistful but she's back home to OM and me back to NC. I'm still in love but I know who and what she is. Nothing I can do there. Tomorrow out for a match with S and then movie and a dinner with a friend.

Scrant, it sounds like you handled things well & I admire your self control. It is interesting that I think your W does still want to retain some control here. Ie: she is living with OM, but still wants to be able to buy you clothes? It's hard for her to think of you buying your own clothes....or maybe someone else buying them for you? I know - I'm mind reading.

Also, linking arms, hugs and kisses - saying she owes you dinner. Again, I think it wanting to maintain some control and not completely 'lose' you.

But I guess it's all immaterial while she chooses to remain with OM. Best to just keep looking forward my friend xx

Did some GAL this weekend but suffering a reaction to spending a pleasant hour and a half with her for the first time in two months. Despite meditation found my thoughts going back to her constantly and feeling so frustrated that she won't come back to me. Stupid really and I know I can't do anything but it just felt so normal to have her sitting and smiling with me. It really is crazy to expect her to change when she has cheated on me twice with OM! I know I have to look forward but I feel in limbo, waiting for her R with OM to fail. I've tried to be strong but I feel like I'm not making progress, I've started speculating about the future by myself and can only see loneliness. I don't want to be her best friend but it did feel good being with her again. Sorry for venting, time to go back to NC.

Hi Scrant, I think it is always tough to spend that time with someone. It feels so intensely familiar and 'right.' The feelings will pass and I would encourage you to sit with them, accept them, meditate and know that you will feel better again - perhaps even just in a day or so. Of course nothing is 'right' about being in her company, given all circumstances and you know already that you don't want to be 'third point' on this triangle - and I would agree that is to be avoided at all costs.

People often say that NC is for you, and I agree that it is easier to find peace when your WS isn't 'in your face' on a regular basis. Sitches like mine are somewhat easier, when there is less need to have contact and kids are older or you have no kids. Just remember this too shall pass and above all, don't be driven by emotion to do something. When you feel in the grip of strong emotion, do nothing is always best.

Take care and I hope the week improves for you. Xx

Quote:

I've tried to be strong but I feel like I'm not making progress, I've started speculating about the future by myself and can only see loneliness. I don't want to be her best friend but it did feel good being with her again.

I think you handled yourself very well. What you don't know is how she was feeling during and after this meeting with you. When the LBH has a chance to show his positive side (charming, smiling, upbeat, in-charge), it can pull at the heart strings of the W. The LBH may never know about some little way he looked, smiled, said something, etc. that triggered buried emotions in her. And this is a good thing to leave her thinking of you with fond memories.........that can lead to fond desires.

Thanks for all the positive thoughts, it certainly gives me a boost.Today W has emailed twice. First she's been through the accounts and has recalculated in her favour, nothing too major but meant I had to do the same to redress the balance. Both her and my emails were cordial enough. She said It was nice to see you and see you have done so many things... and finished by reminding me she owed me dinner and saying we can meet up when I want and lots of kisses.The other email was about car insurance and S. Again she finished with in keep in touch and kisses. I replied by saying it was nice to see her too and than dealt with her questions and take care. I feel she was pleased to see me and now wants to keep me more in the picture in the friend zone. I won't do that.

w still confused over finances so I had to ring her to clear it up. I mentioned I had spent the morning fixing the dishwasher. Her reply was see I've been good for you. Now you cook and fix things, you're a different person. I've been good for you and when we can we meet up so I can buy you dinner. I just avoided with a laugh and then she asked was I busy. Yes pretty much. Oh bye.
Talk about trying to convince herself that leaving me alone and heartbroken was the best for everyone! Not to mention her son.

Looking at my earlier posts I don't know what to think. Is she trying to ease her sense of guilt, is she thinking of me as a good friend who she feels affection for or is it something else? Hard to say but as always I'll have to keep on my own path. It is incredible to think she can say the situation is good for me when it has almost destroyed her R with S. I don't think she knows what she is saying or feeling when she communicates with me. The happy smiles, the sad tears, the kisses, miss yous on one hand then the planning monies for the future, house advice, her daily life on the other. She does spin my head and emotions round but I just have to keep resetting and going again, always remembering that I don't know what is going on in 98% of her life and so can only live my own.

It's hard to know what they are really thinking and what the motivations are for all the contact. I do think it's because they can't let go. I especially like what Sandi said about leaving her with positive feelings about you. When the A with the OM starts to sour, and it will, she'll remember the good times with you. Guaranteed. That doesn't mean she'll come back just yet, but it will stick with her.

Hey Scrant, I think you're probably right about easing her sense of guilt - she's wanting to say - Hey, isn't this great for us all - and for you to buy in. Fact is, starting a R with an AP is a hard road, which won't get easier at all. In that R, you will always have started as lies and betrayal and that carries much stigma.

She's still pretty foggy I think and please try not to spend time trying to figure it out - that's a crazy road you don't want to be on for sure. Try and detach as much as you can - forge on with your own stuff and leave her to live her own path for now....you're doing really well I think - it may not always seem that way to you perhaps, but you are.

Take care xx

I'm not sure if it's guilt. I'm not sure if it's JUST friendship. I believe it could be keeping a door open. But you're right, Sotto, it's a waste of time to try and figure it out.
Scrant, just be your cheerful, wonderful self whenever you're out and about.

I know this is the hardest thing ever. I struggle with it every day, as you can see on my thread. My fear is that the longer we're in NC, the better ow will look and the closer they'll get. But now there's nothing I can do about it. I'm not about to break the NC while she's caught up with some things at work that are keeping her very busy and probably a bit upset...

How do we deal with texting? This morning I get up to a whole series of chatty messages about the weather ( it's snowing),son and even asking about some food she gave him a couple of days ago. I haven't responded, just deleted them but I never know if by answering in a brief and breezy way is to invite more and validate the I'm okay with this. W has been also texting on a wider family group about her adventures on the way to work. All part of the everything is fine, even though I'm living with my OM and hardly ever see my son except for car rides.
I still haven't worked the correct response out.

Sure enough had to reply to one as I received a bank text message which was sent to me by mistake. Immediately she sends me three texts about our morning journey and questions about S. Deleted and gone back to work.

Hi Scrant, yes it must be hard with the text messages - and I think your W is currently in deep denial about the impact of her decisions. If you think about it - if you ran off with another woman, are you likely to think it is okay to keep a big ole friendly text exchange going on with your W? Is your new partner likely to think it is okay? It is all fogginess I think.

I think on your part it is a balance between being a willing participant in the 'chat' (friend zone) and not responding and perhaps seeming cold. I don't really know the answer - but maybe responding to 25% or fewer of chatty texts may be about right - particularly if there are many of them. Also, often leave plenty of time before responding. You're a busy guy with a rich and full life after all, right?

I can recall another poster - Rysinman - having a similar issue with texting. Him and his W were at a geographical distance and she was keen to keep in text contact - what did you have for lunch etc. He was very much trying to move on and cut that kind of contact dead. Interestingly, last time he posted they were about to start piecing. Theirs was an infidelity situation too. I can't recall how he cut it dead, but he got advice beforehand from the forum.

Hope this helps a little. Now, onto the most important thing - you!! How are things going with GAL - are you still extending yourself? Trying new things and meeting new people? Enjoying it? Do keep pushing out the boundaries on this as it will serve you well I promise.

Truly, the best thing I have done is the Divorce Recovery Workshop - and others seem to have benefitted from Rebuilding seminars. The joy of these is that you bond with a new group of people going through a similar thing and that is so beneficial. I'm not suggesting you will D - I was at a similar stage to you when I signed up for the seminar and still hoping my M could be saved.

Anyway - do take care and keep posting. Xx

Thanks Sotto. I've got a little blocked with GAL at the moment. Busy with work and waiting for parents to visit for Easter. I went out last weekend for a movie with a friend but generally quiet. Here divorce workshops don't seem to be a thing and I'm not keen to enter the singles/separated lifestyle yet. I bought the book you mentioned and another 8 week practical guide. I'm going to work on myself for a while, reduce wine intake which has gone up recently ( excuse of helping me sleep) and generally keep feeling positive. I've found myself speculating and worrying about holidays, loneliness etc. I do need to refocus on the GAL but not sure where to go next. I'm reluctant to go into situations by myself and see what happens. Can't run at the moment either due to a minor injury.
As for the texts I'll pick and choose. I got one from the bank account which enabled me to know she's added a new phone company. I hate knowing anything about her new life so I asked her to change the bank number so I don't get anymore. She was immediately back with chatty questions. I answered one and left the rest.

Today is text day! Two more asking for some English TV programmes which she likes. Could I pass them on a pen drive when she taxis S? She wants the best of both worlds!

Well, I guess she will do what she will do and ask for what she will ask for. After that, it comes down to a boundary issue for you. Do you want to keep on doing this stuff? Does that arrangement work for you?

It's up to you, but options could be:

Forget about the request and see if she raises it again
Give the pen drive on the basis that 'friends' may pave the way for possible R somewhere down the road
Offer a truth dart? - W - you have a new partner to help with stuff like this now. (Yes, she may be annoyed, but equally it lets her know you're not going to be her chum with stuff like that.)

It's up to you what you do. What would help you most at this point do you think? BTW, I'm not suggesting being a bit ornery with anything parental - but the whole book lending, TV programme thing is different I think.

JMHO of course xx

I think considering she has only been in the house 10 minutes in five months, sees her son in a car and almost never any other time and still thinks fondly of me ( miss you etc) I'll just hand over the pen drive to S without any comment. It doesn't inconvenience me and every time she puts on a programme who knows maybe she'll think of me and the times we used to watch them together. The last time she finished a series she bombarded me with a series of texts wanting to chat about it. I know she watches them alone when OM is working or with mates.

Hey Scrant,

Odd position you are in. This seems like a lot of cake eating to me especially if she is living with OM. That would change the entire ball game for me. I am no where close to a vet, but I think a well placed truth dart may be useful. I hope some others chime in your situation.

Hi Pinn
I understand what you are saying but I said for this particular thing I see it as something which serves as a constant reminder of our joint past. W is European and speaks great English whereas OM has no idea. W watches these alone while he is out working or with his friends. I think it is a gentle reminder of other times. Who knows? You might be right and it is great to have other viewpoints.

Hey Scrant,

I hear you.. this stuff is hard. In a lot of ways, believe it or not, I wish my WW was living with someone. Then decisions (for me) would be much more clear cut.

For me, my goal would be to show WW exactly what life is like without me. That would mean don't come to me to get a show we used to watch together, get it yourself. And don't talk to me about it after either, that is what we used to do. That stopped the moment you walked out. Know what I mean? I want her to feel a loss honestly. I do not want her reminiscing on our joint past, I want her to long for it.

Anyway, just my thoughts and I completely understand where you are coming from. This has seemed to make my WW realize some things.

Yes I can see where Pinn is coming from. Scrant, you see the watching of these shows by her as a link to your past together. Perhaps she does feel some fondness and that the memories are happy. However, I also think that by being her 'supplier' you help to keep her in that place of comfort - where she can watch the shows supplied by you and feel a link to you - some reassurance that you are there for her should she need you (or change her mind.)

However, there is also merit in minimising contact and not kindly doing stuff for her. That leaves her very much alone with OM - and of course he is a bit of a moron. It would probably give things a bit of a shake up if you did start socialising with some singles - even if just on a friendship basis. Better that than being 'reliable' and kindly supplying stuff when she asks for it. Being a little more unpredictable is no bad thing.

Though I do understand where you are coming from. And I recognise there is a lot you don't respond to, and I also think you manage your emotions well when you are in contact with your W. I guess I'm just providing another perspective and of course you'll decide what feels right to you.

Xx

Thanks for all the ideas. I think that just saying a straight no would come across as being a bit of a jerk. However she has asked for one specific series. I have plenty of others which I know she'd like but I'm not going to mention or add them on. I would have done so in the past but not now. Also I'll give S the pen drive when I get around to it., there's no hurry. I don't have to speak about it with her, just pass them to S and go back to NC. I've only answered one of her various texts this morning. Her questions about S I haven't answered as that is for him to do. After our meal last week she is trying to up the contact to bring things back to normal after almost two months without meeting. I notice she only texts from work, not at times when she's at home like the weekend. When she sent me the miss you text one night I'm sure that was OM's sports evening. I assume all the kisses and miss yous, hugs etc are to check I'm still there. I don't tell her most of what I do and nor does S. After her comments that the separation was good for me and I'm a different person ( really? She said I was the best person she knew when she left me!) I'm happy to keep out the way for now and let her do her own thinking.

She is also still hoping to invite me out for dinner which can only happen if there is something important to discuss about S. I need to get back GAL, I'll think about your singles idea Sotto but that sort of thing feels like closing the door on my marriage which I'm not ready for yet, not while I still have feelings for W. It was a long together.

Hey Scrant,

I see a lot of myself in you. Hang in there. You can do this. GAL is key my friend... it really is.

Originally Posted By: Scrant

I think that just saying a straight no would come across as being a bit of a jerk. .

Scrant... my man... who is a bigger jerk...You for not giving her the show, or her for LIVING with OM and only texting you from work?? You wouldn't have to say no, you could just ignore it. I am not suggesting any action or inaction here, you need to do whatever feels right for you but you should think about what you wrote there. That seems to be the wrong mind set. I used to think the same way. I debated whether to wish my WW happy birthday a few months after BD. Even bought her a gift. But I didn't give it to her or wish her birthday. I felt like a jerk for not doing it. I wrote about it here actually. It really bothered me at the time. In my mind though, it was the right move.

I hope you do not take this the wrong way, just wanted to give you some thoughts. I have found that whenever people write on my thread, it at least lets me see things a bit differently.

Originally Posted By: Scrant

She is also still hoping to invite me out for dinner which can only happen if there is something important to discuss about S. I need to get back GAL, I'll think about your singles idea Sotto but that sort of thing feels like closing the door on my marriage which I'm not ready for yet, not while I still have feelings for W. It was a long together.

I find this concept of DB somewhat paradoxical: If you Detach successfully, wouldn't you be closing the door on your marriage? It's a conundrum I am struggling with as I am reading the DR book.

Originally Posted By: pinn

Scrant... my man... who is a bigger jerk...You for not giving her the show, or her for LIVING with OM and only texting you from work?? You wouldn't have to say no, you could just ignore it. I am not suggesting any action or inaction here, you need to do whatever feels right for you but you should think about what you wrote there. That seems to be the wrong mind set. I used to think the same way. I debated whether to wish my WW happy birthday a few months after BD. Even bought her a gift. But I didn't give it to her or wish her birthday. I felt like a jerk for not doing it. I wrote about it here actually. It really bothered me at the time. In my mind though, it was the right move.

I have to agree with Pinn here: Your wife is having sex with another man and you want to give her shows to watch? Isn't that the ultimate doormat behavior?

Hey Scrant, your thread is busy today!

I just wanted to clarify - I wasn't suggesting the whole 'single friends' thing as meaning 'closing the door.' My H is about to finalise our D sadly. I have a number of single friends now - male and female. I tell anyone up front that I accept all invites (well most) - but not dates. I already decided that I don't want to date for the whole of 2016. Then we'll see.

For me, I still haven't completely closed the door on our M. Though I have let go of the outcome and I accept we will D. And whilst I feel sad, my life is generally happy and I look forward to the future. I would only consider reconciling with H if all conditions are right, and I'm certainly not interested in a R with someone who wants to text,sext, flirt and go out with other women.

But I am further down the road than you. We also don't have kids together and were married for less time.

CWOL - detachment is more about not being so emotionally invested in a situation. It's about seeing what your WAS is doing, but not seeing it as 'being done to you.' It is about you having your life and they theirs for now. Therefore what they choose to do need not really impact on you. It is about observing as though you were a third party and having a rational insight into what is going on. There is some good content on detachment on the site, so do have a read. It takes time to feel more detached and it ebbs and flows too - sometimes I feel more so, and sometimes less so.

Hope this helps anyway xx

Oh, and I also wouldn't put myself in the position of accepting one on one invites, which might lead to an uncomfortable situation with single male friends. But I'm happy to spend time with guys in a group setting...

Thanks for all your thoughts. I appreciate all views and don't take any offence. CWOL if you look back over my sitch (which is very long so don't worry!) I did everything wrong for years and certainly was a doormat at the beginning of the separation? Now I don't come running as quickly and sometimes not all. I'll certainly think over all the advice today. It is always a fine line to walk with W. I see signs in our recent dealings of someone who wants to keep me there wether as a best friend or as a backup plan who knows? I don't think she does. I deliberately avoid asking anyone about her,we have only been together as a family unit for S's birthday and I have only met up with her on her own. She always thought that S and I would be there when she wanted, even for possible holidays together. She has now realized that S and I won't join in her fantasy world of alternating between us and OM. She barely sees her own son for longer than a few minutes every now and then. She still thinks she is a great mother although her own son has said she never spent time with me before so why would I want to now? Sad but true. She has seen me twice in over two months. Her original idea was to be popping in to see us whenever OM was busy. I'll give her time to keep living her dream with him.If I do pass on the programmes she wants it'll be sometime in the future, when I get around to it, maybe after being reminded a couple of times.
Thanks for your thoughts Sotto. I'm in a bit of limbo right now. I'm trying to lead a new life, people have been very kind when I reach out but it is taking time. W still has a strong pull on my emotions, appears in dreams. I'd like to get the stage where I could honestly try to establish a new R but not yet. I have friends through work, some are single and platonic but the majority at my age have their families and are busy. Need to keep trying GAL.
It is a long road and I'm fortunate to have a loving S, parents ( a long way away) and some colleagues who care about me. The Mindfulness has helped although I've only scratched the surface.
Thanks to everyone who posts, it really means a lot to know that people want to help. I only wish I could give better advice but I'm still trying to find the path through the woods.

Hey Scrant,

Different topic :-)... I took a course on mindfulness as part of my MBA... it really is an eye opener. It lets me see things in different ways. Good luck with that!

Stay strong my friend.

Scrant,

Seems like you have gotten a lot of advice on giving the show to your W. Thought I would weigh in because I am also walking the line of trying to be civil buy not friends. IMHO, I think that you are mind reading what she would think and feel by watching that show, which is why you want to give it to her. She may just want to watch the show and asked for it because you are "friends" now. Based on everything I am reading on people's threads, I don't think you want to be her friend? I know that I don't want to be my H's friend - either H/W or civil coparents. Because this is so difficult for me, I may actually call a DB coach for the first time to get advice to see if I understand clearly. But, I think you want to aim for "polite neighbor". Anyway, just my two cents. I am still learning to DB myself, so I would love to here what happens when you do/do not give it to her. Good luck

Originally Posted By: Sotto

CWOL - detachment is more about not being so emotionally invested in a situation. It's about seeing what your WAS is doing, but not seeing it as 'being done to you.' It is about you having your life and they theirs for now. Therefore what they choose to do need not really impact on you. It is about observing as though you were a third party and having a rational insight into what is going on. There is some good content on detachment on the site, so do have a read. It takes time to feel more detached and it ebbs and flows too - sometimes I feel more so, and sometimes less so.

Yes, I have read up on Detachment, in the DR book and also on this site. It makes sense on paper, but when I'm executing it in real life, it feels paradoxical. If you see their behavior and choose not to allow them to impact your life, aren't you effectively giving up on a relationship with them? Basically you are treating them like strangers. You basically have to give up any hopes for recovery in the future, right?

Or maybe I don't have a deep enough understanding of Detachment.

Detachment is more about the here and now I think. And I also think being detached could give you a better chance of R in the longer term, so I certainly don't see it as giving up all hope of possible R. If we think of MLC for example, the actions of the average MLCer can be incredibly upsetting and if you remained closely emotionally 'attached' to the MLCer, you would be devastated time and time again - to the extent that you would probably give up on the R out of self preservation. If we let go of that investment in someone for now and release them and ourselves to live our lives - who knows how things may turn out in the longer term? GAL helps us do this as we come to feel we have many things in our life outside of our R with the WAS.

Hope this helps...and Scrant sorry for the debate on your thread....feel free to boot us off if it's not of interest to you....

xx

Feel free! We are all helping and learning here. S is going out for lunch with W tomorrow. Second time in five months.

I didn't reply to the pen drive texts so this morning I wake up to three texts. First one saying hello, aren't you talking to me? Second advising me to wash S's coat and the third inviting me for lunch with her and S!
I haven't replied, later on in the morning I'll just send back no thanks. As it happens I couldn't anyway but I feel this is the effect of dinner last Friday. W wants to feel that after me going very quiet that she has me back in the triangle. A close friend thinks she is delusional and feels guilty (sending S food etc). I'm sure OM wants nothing to do with a 15 year old teenager( especially after his own daughter has grown up and doesn't forgive him for the affair which ended his marriage the first time around! He's 57 after all) and is happy for W to do her family things at times when he is busy. I don't know when or if her R with him will change ( her psychologist said years ago that she was infatuated with him and couldn't see reality) but after 5 months trying to rebuild I'm not going back to the friend zone whenever it is convenient for her. Evenings and weekends is OM time. The first couple of months her sister and aunt told me she was finding it really hard. I don't know if that is still the case. I've stopped asking and taken everyone's advice to let her follow her own path. I'm just trying to stop her taking me with her when it suits her. When I went NC she noticed hence the Miss You messages. On with my own life for now.

Yes, you could just leave it for a while and then just reply along the lines of - Hey W - no, just v busy & will take a rain check on lunch thanks

Great advice from Sotto. And, I agree, that whole "being friends" thing just isn't something I want either! Hard to walk the line though. Seems like you have a good handle on it.

Thanks for the support. I finally texted that I was busy and to enjoy lunch with S and mentioned Parents were coming for some of Easter. I got a couple of missed calls from W. Sometime later I rang to see what the problem was. Her first response was I thought you weren't answering my calls now. Me, I've been busy. She just wanted to chat about all the questions I hadn't answered in her texts. I was fairly brief responding and she realized I wasn't going to chat. She asked about her series. I pointed out she hadn't given me a pen drive but when she did I'd do it some time. Wished her a good lunch with S and bye. She sounded a bit surprised I didn't want to prolong the chat. I feel she still wants to rebuild the triangle but as I've said I can't go there. Well now it's Friday night and weekend I imagine it is OM time!

Sounds like your DB'ing was great�.keep it up! I need to take a cue from you, so I can get the H to realize that we are not going to be friends.

It has been a while since I've posted. A student in my S's year group committed suicide last week so you can imagine the perspective that put on my problems. The tragedy coupled with reading up on mindfulness has helped me to keep trying to live in the present the best I can. Not relive past pain and stress or prelive an imaginary unpleasant future which may never become reality. The only contact I've had with W has been via text or email to discuss S's educational future. There were meetings at the school but I went on a different day to her. My parents are visiting for a few days but W asked S if he wanted to go with her for a couple of days to visit her parents. He said no as he wants to stay at home and be with his friends. W keeps try to arrange things to do with S but he refuses most of them. The NC continues I answer some but not all messages. As we go into the six month I imagine the chances of her leaving her OM are minimal given her level of obsession and self deception but I can only continue on my path and enjoy each day the best I can. Of course I miss her but I realise that only I can make myself happy.

Hi Scrant, I'm sorry to hear about your S's classmate - that is a tragedy. My brother took his own life in his twenties and is was a very sad time for our family.

The path you are treading is not an easy one, but you tread it with dignity and courage. I think that is as much as we can ask of ourselves.

Please stay hopeful that things will ultimately unfold just as they should. Who knows how you or your W may feel in the longer term?

Take care my friend x

Thanks Sotto. I'm sorry to hear of your sad loss, I can't even begin to imagine how you got through that. I'm having a few nice days with parents who are desperate to help and support. It is just sad to scan and send S's school report to W who replies thanks for sending it. S is in good spirits and I really can't complain, just miss someone who lied and cheated on me. Strange how the heart works! On with our lives, there isn't anything else to do..

Spending until Tuesday at home with my parents visiting us. S has gone for a coffee with W. He told me he suggested meeting up with her because she is going away for a few days. Despite all my attempts to detach it still hurts to think of her away with OM, probably because she had a holiday with him last year behind my back. Brings back painful memories I suppose and makes me feel a little bitter she can be off enjoying herself after everything. I'm at home worrying about a broken washing machine! NC for over a week now. She won't want to be in touch while parents here. Great to have parents here with us but in a strange way it just reminds what I miss about being a couple. Feeling pessimistic and falling into the old traps of reliving the past and speculating about a lonely future. See no chance of restarting R with W.

Hi Scrant - here's a big hug ((((((Scrant))))))

Sorry to hear about the trip and your washing machine. Who knows, your W and OM may bicker the whole time and it could be the start of the slow disintegration of the A - we live in hope!! Please don't speculate about a lonely future - your future will be as full of warmth and companionship as you choose to make it. Plus, you will be able to rest your head on the pillow in peace, knowing that you didn't dishonour your marriage and betray your vows.

How are things going with GAL. Do you still meet up with your footie chums? Do you have any further irons in the fire??

Enjoy your time with your parents and have the nicest weekend possible. Hope your washing machine gets sorted. I lived without one for 18 months - so go figure! I used my parents one, just down the road but it feels a luxury to have my own now. It plays a merry little tune when the washing is finished!

Xx

Thanks for putting things in perspective.I love this forum on down days. At the moment GAL has been on the back burner. I've had a minor sports injury and I'm battling off a heavy cold but I'll start up again soon. I need to get out more as I'm too comfortable at home with S.

Back to normal after trip to airport with parents . S running a temperature so we are chilling out quietly. Occurs to me that W is really selfish, in that she hasn't told me directly she is on holiday somewhere. Imagine S was really ill and I contacted her only to find out she was a few hundred miles away! I can't imagine the grief she'd give me if the roles were reversed! Oh well at least I'm here for him. A quiet day tomorrow should help. I was under the weather but now I have boy to look after feeling stronger. Going to spend next few days catching up on jobs and taking delivery of washing machines
S quite feverish. He'll be ok but the more I think about it the more annoyed I am. I only know because S mentioned it after a coffee last Saturday. Almost tempted to play the innocent and text her. Do feel resentful that she gets the free and easy life.
A busy day of driving, washing and cooking. Caring for a teenager while party girl/ super mum off with loverboy/OAP. Self pity time!

Morning Scrant! Sorry to hear your S isn't well, and I do hope he's all better soon. Yes, I would agree it's a courtesy to advise of trips - but maybe that's something for the longer term as she has so little involvement in your S's care just now and you have also learned this third hand.

In terms of you feeling resentful (which I can understand). Looking in from the outside, I believe you are in a far, far better place than your W at this point. It may seem like she is good time party gal - going off with OM. And maybe she feels like that at this point. But I don't think going off and effectively giving up custody and care of your S is a happy place to be. Actually, she is giving up a great deal to be with this OM just now - and he is an adulterous man - and all of that is likely to crumble at some point and she will likely be pretty broken by that. Also, there is the guilt and misery about what she has 'done' to a good man and to her family. And if you wound others in that way, it is a self-wound too.

If you read sitches like those of RD - I think these guys who keep it all going with the family (whilst that must be tough at times) - are on a much happier path. And the kids will always know that you were there for them - and you can rest easy at night knowing that too. And this is the stuff that really, truly matters. So, whilst it must feel a bit blah sometimes with these chores to keep it all going - it's worth remembering the alternative, which certainly won't be all rainbows and unicorns, I can tell you. However, things do take time to unfold.

Anyway, just my rambling thoughts this morning and I hope your S is on the mend today.

X

Thanks for your thoughts. He's brighter today and at least I get to give him a cuddle when he needs it. Just spending some quiet time together. I don't ask but I assume he has some contact with W each day on whatsapp so that must be strange for her wherever she is. Sometimes I don't recognise her anymore but like all the sitchs I read I suppose that is part of the process. Maybe she'll change or maybe she's too far gone into her own delusions and obsessions. I'll walk my own path despite missing her and having the odd down day.

Just checking in. After NC I emailed W to sort out monthly finance details. I got back an email complaining how tired she is with her lack of contact with S and saying it seems really bad for her and also for him. She says she thinks we should meet soon. She doesn't say why she thinks we should meet, if it is to listen to her complain about S then I'm not inclined to go. He is fine, cheerful and good company but reluctant to spend time with his mother. She makes no reference to finances so no idea what she wants to talk about. I don't really want to sit and listen to her complaints while she is still living her life with OM. I feel like replying to say that on Thursdays I'm busy and I'm not aware of any reason to meet. I'm sorry that her R is poor with S but it is something she has earned for herself over many years and I can't really do anything to interfere. With so little contact I don't know what she is thinking and feeling but I don't want to dance to her every contact.

Hi Scrant - was just thinking about checking in on you and here you are posting!

Yes, you could reply along the lines of - I'm busy Thursdays, so that doesn't work for me. Sorry you're feeling that way about S - Its not my place to interfere, but of course I'll always encourage him when he wants to see you. Take care.

Hope you're doing okay my friend 😊

I've sent the email and received no reply. She hasn't proposed another day. I think W feels a lot of frustration with S and realizes that I'm slowly detaching from her. She seems to be respecting that for the moment, no repeats of the I miss you messages. Just keep on my own path.

Just checking in. Got a lot on at work so occupied most of the time. S has a foreign exchange student staying with us for ten days. She is a nice girl and they are having a good time. W has decided that she wants to meet her and started texting our family group and me individually. She has clearly noticed my NC because she says if you don't want to see me can I take them out for lunch? She also proposed the 4 of us going out. She then texted me to say things can't go on like this, I'm his mother I have to see him sometimes. I haven't replied yet for two reasons. Firstly S has made it clear he doesn't want to have lunch with her. I asked him to communicate directly to her but to try to be kind. Secondly it is very likely we and other host families will all go out for the day together. W won't be part of that group given the circumstances. I understand her frustration but she is stressing me and S. She chose her path and we can't play happy families when it suits her. I spent last night taxiing the kids around , I bet she was having an evening out with OM. I'm planning meals etc for the kids while she can do whatever she feels like, no responsibilities most of the time. Sorry just venting!

She has spent half the morning ringing me. I didn't pick up as I was with all the parents of S's basketball team and so didn't feel the need to talk then. She started sending texts about why won't I even answer the phone anymore, getting quite cross. She even left a voicemail which I didn't listen to. Eventually I sent a text saying the game was noisy and sorry for not answering. I told her the kids have plans for today and tomorrow. She didn't reply. She'll be able to follow S's plans while the exchange is on as she belongs to our parents chat group from a previous year. I don't know if I'm handling things well but I'm tired of being there when it suits her.

I want to make a suggestion, b/c you are acting as if you are a very "trained" H. Ignoring her persistent calls during the game is fine. However, don't make up some wimpy excuse to give her. And most of all......don't tell her you are sorry!

You could just as easily have said that you were busy watching the game and it was not the place or time to talk on the phone. If she started some irate brow-beating, then say, "I was simply returning your call, but I refuse to listen to you rant". And then just end it and don't respond to her for the rest of the night. In fact, don't respond until she texts an apology.

This way, you show strength and that you choose your actions. She doesn't get to tell you what to do. Don't let her manipulate you.

Fair point Sandi. I've got into the habit of trying to avoid conflict. Don't worry I won't let her manipulate me. I sense she is frustrated because neither S or I respond as she wants. She wants to play happy families and still seems to be in denial over the results of her actions on the family unit, she doesn't seem to realize it doesn't exist anymore.

Just had an intense conversation with W. She rang while I was out of the house, as I didn't answer she texted about maybe she needed a lawyer. Anyway we spoke for ten minutes, she was angry and frustrated about relationship with S. She veered between shouty and teary so I listened and validated but agreed to nothing. First she asked could she come with us on our exchange trip out tomorrow. I gently said I didn't think it was a good idea and S wouldn't be comfortable. This a cue for lots of ramblings about how she couldn't understand why he wouldn't be comfortable with his own mother ( I can think of a major reason!) and she only sees him 5 minutes a week and she's his mother and it isn't normal he won't see her I agreed she is his mother but also pointed out I can't make him want to be with her as he almost 16. She said she isn't prepared to continue like this. I said I understood how she felt but S and her needed to talk it over. She then said she wanted us to invite her for dinner once a week. I said S wouldn't be comfortable. We continued with me validating until she talked herself out. I told a couple of things S had done and told her to take care. She quietly said the same. Don't know how to interpret it. One way is to see her frustrated because things haven't happened like she wanted. Who knows if her R with OM is worth the effort?

Hi Scrant- sounds like your W is getting pretty frustrated with the situation with your S - and she's looking everywhere but at her own situation for someone to blame or fix it. It's a symptom of fog I think. She's looking at your S and feeling he should be more receptive. She's looking at you and feeling you should pave the way more. However, she isn't choosing to look at her own situation with OM and recognise the impact that has had.

The only thing I would watch out for in the convo you describe is putting too much on your S. Actually, regardless of how your S may feel, it wouldn't work for you having her over for a cosy dinner once a week. And I think it's perfectly fine to tell her that - Hey W, given all circumstances, that's not going to work for me.

I think (as Sandy said) there's no harm being a little more upfront with your W. Still pleasant toned, but specific about what does and doesn't work for you now.

Hope this helps a little and take care xx

Thanks for the advice. I've been thinking along those lines today. We went out for a trip with three other couples and their exchange kids today. We spent half the day with jokey texts which W will have seen as she has chosen to stay in the text group. we had a fun day and this evening one of the mums sent a video where we all appear ( she'll notice I was wearing a new jumper!) having fun. W will have it which must be hard to take. I spoke to S today and he is clear that he doesn't want W involved. I'll back him up but also make it clear that it doesn't work for me either.

You just said you wouldn't let her manipulate you. Now she's invited to your activity and she wants YOU to have her over once a week for dinner.

It is her job to work things out with son. And, she should do in on her own. She caused this mess, now it is her job to clean it up! Why are you caving to her bullying tactics?

Sandi I expressed it badly. She didn't come on the trip.

The We was S and I. We've also made it clear that the dinner idea is a non starter.

Hi Scrant, sounds like you guys had a good day with the exchange programme. Yes, it must be hard on your W to see the outputs from that...

I always think aspects like this (a Mum not being involved in events like this and still not 'turning back') does show how broken some of these WAS's are. If you are in a good place within yourself, I don't believe you would ever make such a choice because that is too much to give up.

Anyway, it is good to get to a place where you are not even thinking - did she see this or that - but that does take time of course and I think you are on the right track. Just bear in mind, the less you do 'with reference' to her and the more you do because it suits you, the better.

Hope you have a good week my friend x

Collected S to take him home for lunch with his exchange student. He pulled a face and showed me a text from W. She was asking him if she could come around this evening to our house to cook for us and get to know the exchange student. He said no. A friend suggested it was time I told her a few home truths. I don't know how to make the message any clearer after talking to her on Saturday. Any conversation which involves her R, along the lines of until things change we don't want you in our lives, sound a bit like threats to me. I don't know why she still thinks we are a family and nothing has changed when we have only been together for S's birthday and no more in six months. I don't text except for things about S or finance. We have only met twice since January. She doesn't seem to face the consequences of her actions and I don't think it is my role to tell her. Surely she has to realise it for herself or she'll resent me as the messenger?

I guess she may feel she fired 'you' but not her S - and is looking for ways to be more involved with him - but of course he is of an age and is reluctant. Maybe she feels if she can come and cook, he's a captive audience.

Of course I can understand that her coming to cook may well not work for you, given all circumstances. So, you may want to be straight with her.

W, S showed me your text and I need to let you know that cooking family dinner for us really won't work for me given all circumstances. I'm sorry if you're feeling raw about things and do take care.

Maybe wait for others to chime in though - I'm no expert...

x

Found myself caught in the middle today. S texted his Mum to say that I was going take him and his exchange girl to basketball training as I had to do some jobs nearby. It wasn't true and I didn't know. Of course W fired off an angry text saying could I not leave her the only 5 minutes she has? I spoke to S to ask him could he not give her the time. He was angry because he said he had texted W to say that while his exchange was here he didn't want to see her but next week he would. I texted W simply saying give him time. S later agreed to see her. I told him that he didn't have to make any other plans but to try to be nice. I don't think I could do more. Hopefully it might calm things for a while. As for W and I, NC continues. No idea what her life is like just get to listen to her complaints about S

Well the exchange is over W didn't get to see the student and hardly saw S. Things move on as W's mother is ill in hospital. She texted me to explain the problem and to say that she's worried about her dad. I've been texting her dad throughout the day to express my love and support. I texted her saying I'm so sorry to hear about your Mum. Older people need time to recover and I'm sure the hospital will look after her. S and I have been in touch with your Mum and Dad over the last few days. Look after yourself and, although it is diffficult, try not to worry too much. She's texted back saying thanks and she's hoping to see her Mum in the next few days so could I lend her our car for the long journey? She then said if S and I wanted to come we were welcome. No mention of OM going, she knows I would never go anywhere he is so I assume he's not going. I can't possibly go and S won't want to. The whole situation feels so weird, I can't support W emotionally as I would like as she's with OM now.We have 25 years of history and it feels horrible just texting each other. Don't see what I can do really, ordinarily I would have said no to the car but given the circumstances... Just feel strange and frustrated by everything. Before all this happened I was about to text W to explain finances and remind her of her contributions as finallly after 6 months she has to start to contribute to Son's life. It will come as a shock as she has never lived modestly. Obviously I won't for the moment. Times like these I really hate the OM. Not sure how to respond, so much I'd like to do and say but I can't. Feeling really sad that I can't support W as I would have in the past but that's his job now.

Quote:

Not sure how to respond, so much I'd like to do and say but I can't. Feeling really sad that I can't support W as I would have in the past but that's his job now.

It's tough love. The person applying it and the one receiving it. Just as we have to set tough love in motion when our teenagers are rebellious, so goes the WW and how the H interacts with her.

After 25 yrs, your husband instincts are set on automatic. Of course it feels strange to not support her, not protect her, not to provide for her. However, she choice to remove herself from the M (which included all those things) in order to have her OM. As long as she gets all the advantages of the M she had with you, plus her wayward lifestyle........she will continue going in that wayward direction. It usually takes reality slapping a wayward in the face in order to get their attention. So what you are doing is loving her, but it's not the easy kind.

I sent W a text saying I was happy her mother was going home today and, given the circumstances, I'd lend her the car.
She rang immediately. She asked did I want to go with her. No thanks. Would son want to go? Doubted it as has a basketball match I suggested she could go with her sister.She said her sister suggested me!She started asking about the exchange visit and revealed she had been following the mums phone group (which I knew anyway). She remarked that I was very sociable now and noticed I was going to meet them for a coffee, lucky mums (her comment) We talked about S's school and a couple of shared phone contracts she had changed for us. When she started onto how are you? I replied fine but I need to make S's lunch and collect him from school. Take care and bye. Seems to me W still living in cloud cuckoo land (and her sister). Why would I want to spend hours in a car with her there and back, then spend a weekend with family and friends as if nothing has happened? I hope I handled it well enough.

Hi Scrant, sorry to hear about MIL and glad she'll be home soon. I think helping with the car but not going yourself was the right response. It is good to help out in a crisis, but there's a limit to that and I can see you wouldn't want to turn up as 'H' given all circumstances.

Times like this I think WAS's must feel it - they don't have someone fully there 'for them.' Yes, you've lent the car and OM probably being somewhat supportive (as he's still on best behaviour maybe?) But she can't really turn up to hospital with OM and he get welcomed into the bosom of the family, you know? People don't always take kindly to APs and a R that began as an A will suffer that consequence. Yes some people may accept it - but often it's a reluctant acceptance rather than a warm welcome.

Good that your W has noticed some of the social stuff you do and is wondering a little about those lucky Mum's.

Take care xx

I think you handled her call very well. She seems true to form, by keeping a close watch your activities......and wanting to keep her H attached to her. The one thing that a WW does not expect is her H enjoying his life without her.

Thanks for all the encouragement. In the end W texted me to say she didn't need the car but thanks. I wished her a good weekend with her mum. Later I had to send her an email about monies she owed as her contribution to S. That was four days ago and she hasn't replied. This evening I came from a run to see her car going past at the lights. I turned away so I didn't have to stand waving or worse have her stop for a chat. A couple of minutes later she texted asking was I hiding and saying hi.A close friend said to just ignore it and it was childish on her behalf. I haven't responded but just feel weird. The last few days I've found myself grieving more for what was a 25 year relationship and not really holding any hope for any sorted of R with her in the future. I've just been concentrating on work and S.

Hi Scrant, I think you were right to ignore that and I feel it's unrealistic for her to expect that you'll want to gaily wave, chat, see her or spend time with her, given all circumstances.

I think often in our sitches things really need to tail away to almost nothing - and for time to pass in order that the ultimate outcome for the R is known. From what little I know, it does seem as though things tend to unfold over a long period of time - normally more than months - and the R with the OP truly needs to run it's natural course.

In time, many WAS's do seem to regret the choice they have made, but I think the tragedy is that often the timescale is so extended, the LBS has grieved and moved on. This is part of what I struggle with, approaching the two year mark and in the final stages of the D process. Above and beyond any possible reconciliation hope, the main thing is to know that we did the right thing, and that it was our very best. It is all we can ask of ourselves and what the situation deserves. Beyond that, our sitches are in the fate of the wider universe and each has a range of factors that will determine the ultimate outcome.

I think all of this is why we can really only focus on ourselves, try not to 'make things worse' and live our own lives. In time to come, I hope we all see this time of 'trauma growth' as very useful and that it impacts positively on us and on any possible future R, whether with our spouse or some other lucky person.

Take care, take time to grieve, then keep moving forward and living as full a life as possible, despite all circumstances.

Xx

Just checking in. W's R with S getting worse. W texted me last night to ask if something had happened to make S not want to eat with her. I replied nothing new has happened. The penny doesn't seem to have dropped yet. This morning W texted me cheerfully to ask if I am going to a concert later this month. I haven't replied yet. Don't why she wants to know! I am going with some friends but what does she want to know for? I don't want to know if she is going with OM or not.

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She seems true to form, by keeping a close watch your activities......and wanting to keep her H attached to her. The one thing that a WW does not expect is her H enjoying his life without her.

Got the message

I didn't reply. If she really wants to find out, she can ask her friends. She rang her S and finally browbeat him into having a coffee with her. Tomorrow is Mother's Day here so she'll feel her loss, wouldn't surprise me if she is contact with him or even me. I'm relaxed as S and I get on fine. Today he's expressed an interest in learning to cook lunch with me. At least I'll always have these moments.

Hi Scrant, I think it was fine not to reply to that. I was going to suggest if you wanted to reply just to say - not sure, may have other plans that weekend. Because - who knows you may!

Yes, I imagine Mother's Day won't be that easy with a lukewarm teenager and that's a shame. It would be the right thing to do to make sure he does acknowledge it in some way I think.

But nice that your S is interested in cooking with you. That's a great activity for you guys to do together and you could make some cool stuff. It's so good for kids to be able to cook. When SS did cookery at school, they made various cakes but they don't actually teach the kids to make themselves a square meal (bugbear of mine...)

Hope you have a good weekend anyway x

Monday morning and W is active in trying to meet me. We haven't met since beginning of March. She has an appointment with the school about S and is future plans. I don't need to go as I've already spoken to the teachers involved.She would like me to come with her today and has asked twice. I politely said no. She has come back with trying to arrange a meeting with the bank to do our tax returns. I said I'd pass on the paperwork and we'd arrange how to pay some other time. She has now offered to change the day so I can come. We never needed to got together before so I won't. During the morning's messages she changed her profile picture to show some flowers on a table in a room, first time I've seen into her new flat and life. I assume the flowers were bought by OM to cheer her up on Mother's Day as she didn't see S. OM has an elderly mother so who knows what they did yesterday. Feel weird about it all., at least she hasn't changed to a picture of them looking loved up. Weird how people can be so accepting of her walking out on her family and lying to everyone over so long.

Sorry for all the typos! She rang me after the school meeting, she sounded very down. She said it had gone well but it was difficult to talk about S when she doesn't have a relationship with him. I said at least she now knows what he is going to do and to take care, less then a minute on the phone. I'm glad I didn't go as she was relying on me to do the talking while she smiled and charmed. I feel empathy despite everything but a reality check has to happen from time to time.

W finally did the tax returns without me as I was working. She rang me this evening after collecting S to say that her car had broken down and could I go into our account (now run by her) to find the insurance company? I genuinely can't remember the passwords and told her I never look in there (true). S decided to walk home to avoid me having to collect him and maybe have W want me to take her to new home. When S arrived I asked him if W had given him the tax papers, he said no. W also hasn't replied to an email pointing out that we had agreed her financial contribution to S's upbringing and she owed two months money.She is clearly trying to provoke another meeting as we haven't met since the beginning of March. I feel like she alternates between long silences when I refuse to meet followed by renewed attempts to meet up. I really don't know if I am handling the last few weeks well or just alienating her?

In the past I would have moved heaven and earth to help her but now it feels I should step back. Feels strange.

Truly Scrant, I think while the A is still in play, stepping back from her and moving forward with your own life is the best thing to do. I think if she always sees you there as back up plan, she doesn't truly face the complete loss of you. But these things do take time and I think 'waiting without waiting' is the best plan - keeping your focus on yourself and building positive things in your own life.

You're doing well.....are you still making new GAL plans?

Thanks Sotto. I try to not keep second guessing W but it is an easy trap to fall into.GAL is a bit up and down at the moment. I'm preparing for various races including a half marathon! I'm off to a big concert with friends next week and taking S to a basketball game as well. Next weekend I'm meeting some friends for a Saturday night meal. I'm snowed under with extra work for the next month or so which keeps me busy. I'm also thinking of applying for a more senior post in a secondary job I do. Despite all this I haven't really moved to improve my social life, I'm going to have a lot of free time in July/August and I haven't really made too many plans to fill it. I miss having a woman to share my life with but while W still occupies my thoughts I can't really move on. At least having S with me gives me something to focus on and work colleagues/ friends have been great in keeping me going. Reading other people's sitches I really can't complain.

Yes, counting our blessings is always a good idea. Glad you have some nice social things coming up. July and August are approaching...so I hope you'll be able to plan ahead and make the most of your free time. How about deepening your mindfulness exploration with a retreat or similar?

Have a good weekend

x

Thanks Sotto. It is an idea although I'd have to wait until S is away.
Busy with GAL at the moment yet that seems to have the effect of making me think about and miss W more. Isn't that weird? Had a great night at a concert with friends but at the same time it reminded me of the time we went together in another life. Today S and I are traveling to see a basketball match, looking forward to it. I had to send a paper by email to W today. First contact in a while( although I see her chatty texts to wider family) as she asked about the game.
I suppose after 7 months it is normal that we contact less and less, we adjust to our new lives, she realizes that I'm no longer her best friend etc. I feel like I'm not making much progress in all of this. I know I can't do anything to change her, I know nothing about her new life nor do I want to. I avoid chances to meet and I'm trying to occupy my time with work, activities and S. It is when I look forward, I don't see things changing. We haven't talked about formalizing the separation, we just have verbal agreements based on trust and love for S. As I have said in previous posts W is using finances to try force me into helping her relationship with S and to see me to make sure I'm still there. As it isn't urgent I'm ignoring the issue for the moment as I know she wont want me to bring it up with her family or S (not that I intend to blackmail or threaten) and I can't repair their R.
Just venting as I feel sad and frustrated by the whole situation.

Just received text from W who has been arguing with S on phone. W complaining that he doesn't show her any respect yet alone affection. Haven't replied as I can't reply this things have to be earned in life and her actions throughout the years have got her where she is today. I can't force their R, civilty yes but I hope OM is worth it.

Sent a third email to W reminding her about her contribution to S. No answer. She'll have seen it. Clearly she wants to provoke a phone call and a discussion, probably a meeting to sort things out. She is obviously unhappy that things haven't worked out as expected and happy families don't exist. If I have to meet her, I will but only to leave things clear.
I'd like things to be amicable but seeing her doesn't work for me. I want to move on with my life.
Her R with W is for them to sort out not me.
If we want to avoid lawyers we should keep our promises.
Don't know what else to do

Finally has replied saying she hasn't paid as she had different figures. I've reminded her what we agreed and suggested ways to pay. Mainly she just wanted to ask about me and my activities and talk about problems with S. She suggested meeting up but I replied that yes I've been enjoying various things with S and friends but now I'm very busy. She's meeting S for lunch so I wished her well. Let's see if finally she contributes and stops trying to see me. She signs her email "love", I don't.

Scrant, it's sounds like your doing very will DBing... Your strength in doing your own thing and avoiding WW cake eating is enviable... I also respect your decision not to date until she's out of your head, it will surely make for a better future R, whoever it may be with.. Stay strong, work on being happy, and keep taking such great care of your son..

Had a great time with S at the basketball match and a Saturday evening dinner with friends. On Sunday I ran a half marathon distance for the first time. The trouble is that when I have a good time I feel the loss of W even more. It is hard not have her there to share the experience with. Mind you I suppose she must feel something of that when she hears about our activities. Maybe not who knows? Our financial impasse continues but I'm optimistic that we'll work something out. In her last email she said it would be nice to see me but I deflected that idea away. Soon I'll have to start planning the long summer holidays for S and I. That will bring new problems as we always used to visit W's family and spend time in a small village doing lots of things with everyone. Don't know if S will want to go if W proposes going with OM. Obviously I won't be going. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Trying not to suffer with imagining problems or torturing myself about the past or present. Doesn't help when she appears in my dreams frequently. Last night I dreamt I was on holiday with them both and sister-in-law. Not a great dream! Don't hold out much hope of things changing, I know nothing about her life,thoughts and feelings anymore. It saddens me and I wish I could change things but I can't nor can I move on fully with my life while I still have such strong feelings for her.

Scrant i think you are like me, we are empty without someone to share our experiences with, the good, the bad and the amazing.

You will find someone to share with again.

Thanks Natus. There are so many moments when you turn to say something and then realize there's no one to tell. Decision making all by yourself is a tough one too, you get used to sharing everything. There are so many moments each day I want to share with W but can't. In the end you just have to accept each moment for what it is and not let the past and the future play with your head.

Never felt so down in a long time. Mind has been straying to her, to him and her, past events both good and bad. Feel really lonely without her especially as the days get better and all I see are families and couples everywhere. Fighting the temptation to reach out to her. I won't and can't but it is really hard at the moment. Nothing seems to keep me interested at the moment. I'm fighting a mixture of anger, frustration, sadness and jealousy. I'll get through it but it is tough. Just venting.

Hi Scrant, I haven't stopped by for a little while and sorry you're having a rough phase. I've just been posting about Shawn Achor and the happiness advantage on another thread. If you haven't seen his TED talk it's well worth a look.

Now what concerns me about your post above is the way you seem to feel your own happiness is linked to what your W can offer you. And of course, while she's cohabiting with her AP, she's going to offer you very little. So, what she isn't giving you, you need to give yourself (all apart from intimacy with other women if you hope to save your M.)

So, she isn't meeting needs you have - social needs, company and so on. I know from you posting before that you've gained a lot from GAL before. What's happening with it now my friend? Are you continuing to push forward there? There's a reason GAL is pushed so much on the forum - and that is because....it really does help!

So - personal challenge for you - a new regular GAL activity identified by the end of this month to start in June....are you up for it? I started salsa dancing recently and I love it! It's hard to feel sad when you're dancing.

All the feelings you're having are linked to your focus being on her. That's a cheeseless tunnel for you.....luckily there are many good places to find cheese. You just have to go a lookin'

xx

Thanks for the encouragement. The next few weeks are going to be taken up almost exclusively with work but after that I will try to find something. As I have posted before the summer is going to be a long one, the first in my new sitch and I think I'm avoiding planning it at the moment, avoiding conversations with W about what S may or may not want to do. Stupid really as I'm sure she's got her plans and won't worry about telling me. Look at Easter when she disappeared for a few days only telling S. I really can't complain, I've had some good moments over the last few months but you are right Sotto I still have the tendency to stop and wish she was there to share them and complete my happiness. Still learning how to deal with this new life, my friends say I'm too hard on myself, mindfulness has helped me to try to be more understanding of myself too. Trying not to speculate about she'll say and do in response to the minimum contact, should trust myself more as the few times we have met things have gone well for me. I feel like W is using finance disputes to try to meet me, we have already agreed things twice but now she says lets meet to talk it over and it would be nice to see you sometime. I suppose she wants to check I'm still there. I have told her there is no need so then she goes silent and does nothing. I really don't want to meet as I know she'll smile, hold my arm, hug me etc and chat as if nothing has ever happened. We did it in January and March, don't feel like doing it again. What would be the point? Time to carry on with my life without overthinking things, enjoy time with S and leave W to her life. She chose her new sitch to be happy, she expected S and I to be in her life almost on a daily basis but that hasn't happened. I have no idea what she thinks or feels anymore. Time to accept she is no longer the woman I knew before and concentrate on my new life, trying not to let the inevitable and necessary contact I have to have with her affect me so much. The reality is that looking at things coldly she isn't coming back and I could never join in her new life with OM as her best friend, something she wanted from the day she walked out.

So, given that she is truly gone for now - what is your life going to look like? Why not get in there and start to make some great plans for yourselves over the summer? Who cares what she may have planned? Use this time to make your own plans and have the best summer possible......xx

Thanks I've just watched the Shawn Achor talk. Great fun and something which chimes with my mindfulness. Time to get positive again. I'll start planning the holiday this weekend. I just haven't time this week. Slowly getting to the point when I can face the idea that this state is what there is now and time to enjoy it the best I can.

Great stuff Scrant- good for you and I look forward to hearing about your plans. What things have you always wanted to do with your S or do by yourself...now is the time my friend xx

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