First thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2641352#Post2641352Second thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2645584#Post2645584To summarize, see my signature.
Also, I am inpatient. Trying to reconcile with a WW who has been resistant to NC stips, has issues a stay order for the divorce (3 months, plus another 3 months of cool-down time in the D).
I hold resentment/hurt in my heart for the PA and EA.
Still clean! 90+ days. Changed the way I see the Marriage.
Now hoping wife will want to work on relationship. Currently, is just trying to not hate me. Withdrawls from EA. Living together. Mostly calm, SSRI helps.
Changing jobs - more stress, but promotion (blessing) in the middle of the storm.
Seeing that I need to find my happy. Balance in life, more exercise.
Join the discussion!
Ha ha - I said inpatient. Well, I guess I could be clinically diagnosed and admitted...
Impatient, if you will.
Can we make up and live happily ever after NOW? This 'it will take months/years' thing is really getting to me.
Can we make up and live happily ever after NOW? This 'it will take months/years' thing is really getting to me.
Trumpet-that made me laugh. I have that feeling quite often and it is reality isn't it.
Hope you are doing well and take it day by day...easier said than done!
One thing I've learned from all this is that "Happily ever after" takes constant work. Like a garden, if you stop tending to a marriage it becomes overgrown and unmanageable....
I think Sandi's right, Trump.
I think you need to back way, way off and see what happens.
It seems like every time you get to the point where you are fed up, that's the time she comes back to you.
see what happens when you back way off. Worst case scenario is that you're just further ahead of the game when it comes to getting to the place you want to be. Best case scenario: she panics, comes around, and you get to start again. Slowly.
To me, the way fairy tales end, "and they lived happily there after", implies they did not have any problems in life nor did they have to work at their happiness.......it just happened, is the real fantasy in the stories.
TxHubby said:
The advice to back off on A's and let them run their course is terrible advice. Why? Because while you're saying nothing, the AP is filling their heads with everything they want to hear and the betrayed spouse is offering no counter-argument.
So when is it, "you have to stay close so that you have opportunities to DB and rebuild a connection" and when is it "you have to go dark and if in an in-house situation, get them out"?
Tx, what you said seems to go against the going dark theory. What are you saying and in what tone to what she is hearing? I assume she would be hearing, "what we have is true love", "I want you to move in with me and we can share expenses", "I know your husband put you through hell all those years, I will make you happy". Maybe you can come up with a bunch of things you know were being said in your sitch. Can you expand more on your comment?
TxHubby said:
The advice to back off on A's and let them run their course is terrible advice. Why? Because while you're saying nothing, the AP is filling their heads with everything they want to hear and the betrayed spouse is offering no counter-argument.
So when is it, "you have to stay close so that you have opportunities to DB and rebuild a connection" and when is it "you have to go dark and if in an in-house situation, get them out"?
Tx, what you said seems to go against the going dark theory. What are you saying and in what tone to what she is hearing? I assume she would be hearing, "what we have is true love", "I want you to move in with me and we can share expenses", "I know your husband put you through hell all those years, I will make you happy". Maybe you can come up with a bunch of things you know were being said in your sitch. Can you expand more on your comment?
I'll give my thoughts on this...
I'm agains the "going dark theory" not because of anything OM might say or do (because OM really isn't your competition - Satan is). My problem with Trumpet backing off and "going dark" or detaching in this situation at this moment in time is because it's a very delicate time where the ONLY thing that matters is "no contact". What she says or does means nothing in the long term grand scheme of things other than maintaining "no contact". A withdrawing [addicted[ wayward mind is doing all it can to generate just one more reason to have one more contact with the affair partner....TODAY. If you (the betrayed husband back off, detach or otherwise "go dark" on a withdrawing wayward wife then you MAY BE helping her justify and rationalize breaking the only commitment (no contact) that matters.
She'll think things like:
1. See BH's changes weren't real - he's gone back in one week to being a neglectful uncaring independent behaving prick.
2. Well, BH is off having fun and I'm bored ....maybe I'll spend 6 hours stalking OM, his friends and family on Facebook and another few hours just going through and cataloging every memory of OM I have.
3. Screw this - I'm not losing OM for this - the longer I'm away from him the more I realize he must be my soulmate and God intends for us to be together and it's not like my husband gives a crap.
A truly withdrawing wayward wife who maintains "no contact" with some loser that she thinks she's in love with is trying.
Maybe an analogy would help - think back to when all of us were young idealists in high school. Imagine being in love with someone - dating them intensely for 6 months or more - you had to do it secretly because the person was an off-limits religion or race - and then having your parents tell you that you weren't allowed to date or see that person anymore. Imagine the difficulty you'd have honoring your parents wishes/demand. Imagine the hostility and rebellion you'd feel.
All that is out the window if she's not really in "no contact". I truly hope your wife is genuinely conflicted over giving up her family for OM (who lives out of state) and even though it's tortuous, she knows there is no future with OM for her. However, way wards are notorious for playing both sides of the fence with sincerity (yeah, she's conflicted but ain't really deciding for sure TODAY). It's possible OM told her she needed to sort out her marriage/divorce FIRST before he'd be with her. Maybe she thinks it'll make for better appearances for her to FILE the divorce - telling OM it's filed (maybe he was getting cold feet wondering if she was ever seriously going to leave you) - but put the filing "on hold" while she just continues cake eating while acting to everyone like she's giving it her best try and/or while she tries to convince you (and everyone else) that's it's just not going to work and therefore....maybe...everyone (including you) will go along with her plan to eventually be with OM and amicably divorce. Sometimes they (way wards) even ask the OM to back off and give them space to TRY reconciliation so they can look good to the OM. They like making the OM squirm and chase them or they actually do TRY (so they can simply say they tried) but in the meantime can't actually follow through with "no contact" because, like teenagers being told not to date so and so - they will sneak around and do it anyway. Remember - if OM is the back up plan - OM is single and can choose to leave her and/or date others anytime he wants so pushing him aside for long is usually way too risky for a "in love" wayward wife to handle....so despite best or half honest intentions they continue the affair contact underground and work both sides. They contact OM to keep him in check (and in love with her or just as her backup plan) AND act like they are in "no contact" so they can claim "they tried" while convincing themselves, you and everyone else that it's ALL YOUR FAULT and it's never going to work.
I kind of went in circles there but the point is - "no contact" isn't always a full on effort to reconcile. Sometimes it's just appearances. Usually it's a combination of everything I mentioned at various points in time. The point is - a withdrawing wayward wife is a monster of contradictions, good and bad intentions, hope and despair all in one. You just gotta get through it.
Another random thought -
She is trying to convince you that she is never going to ever be able to love you again. That you are a terrible person and haven't changed.....etc., etc., etc.
.......YOU ARE NOT THAT PERSON ANYMORE.
.......YOU ARE LOVABLE
Don't let the anger of her demons projecting their hatred on you deter your resolve. I reckon that as a husband and wife are 'one flesh' the demons in her are 'in you' too - and whispering all sorts of unhopeful things in your ears. Don't believe Satan. Your wife is not disposable. She is redeemable and capable of being more than she ever was (just like you) and more than her mother ever was (just like you can be better than your father). She'll either come around to repentance or not in her God's time (which you can help out with by holding her accountable to 'no contact' as best you can for the next few weeks) or not. Ultimately, your wife's choices (to have an affair....to disrespect and demean you...to reconcile or not) DO NOT define you as a man.
Ultimately, your wife's choices (to have an affair....to disrespect and demean you...to reconcile or not) DO NOT define you as a man.
Learning to live by this
I got hit with a 2 X 4 in my counseling session today.
I just so happened to be on Matthew 18 today as well.
The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant.
I am the servant.
I have been given a new life - without porn. It changed the way I see the world, the way I see women, and how I see my wife.
My wife sees me for who I was for 15 years. Who could never really kick the habit.
My struggle to drop the hurt was because I chose to hide my bags, and pull them out when I needed them. Dropping my bags means complete detachment from the PA/EA/D.
My wife cannot stop my love. I can continue to talk her LL. Knowing my debt is paid, I can do what will restore my marriage without trying to negotiate a return on the investment. I already took a loan on the marriage when with my addiction. I must pay back that loan with interest to my wife. She did hold the secret for years.
So, how do I show love? By showing her I am moving on, moving to a happier me, willing to go the extra mile for the kids, showing her a husband only a fool would leave. But I really like getting the 'pats on the back', public and private praise. I'm a praise monster. It's what I kept coming back to - all the work, no praise, I bring up the hurt.
Who will I be doing the changes for? Me. For God.
Who have I done the changes for? Me, and for my wife. (partially wrong answer).
I cleaned up our bathroom today - the one only she uses now.
I fixed a light fixture that needed work.
I dusted all the cobwebs from the main level.
I made her bed (was ours, maybe ours someday)
I washed the D7's sheets
I made supper, cleaned up the main level, vaccuumed.
Why? Not to impress her - I would have told her I did all those things in the past. I did it because I love her. Does she love me? nope. Will she ever? Maybe.
All I can do is become the man she always wanted to be with. I made my committment 15 years ago. I'm a man of my word. Some days I hear the voices saying to give up. Not yet. Every day is new. Live for the next day.
Is your LL acts of service? Before I had read that book and realized my H's LL was acts of service, it would not make me very happy whenever he did something that would ordinarily be considered my job. I had a negative attitude about it. I thought he either didn't think I was going to get around to doing it myself, or that he had an ulterior motive.
If your W still has a wayward heart, I don't believe she is going to welcome these acts of service the way she should. If anything, it will add lighter fluid to the charcoal. You say you do these things b/c you love her. Why can't you do other things b/c you love her? Why do you believe that doing servant-like jobs for her will attract her to you? Part of those jobs could be considered as doing it for the family (vacuuming, etc.), however, making her bed and cleaning her bathroom? Really? What was your true motive for doing it for her? Guilt, perhaps? I think, at the moment, to say you are doing these jobs for her just b/c you love her.....is kind of a cop out. No, you weren't trying to impress her, but you definitely were trying to give her a message.
Trumpet,
How was your weekend? I'm curious how things are going and how the dynamics are with your W.
Sandi,
Just trying to find things to do around the house - yes, the message is that I'm a different guy than the one I was a few months/years ago.
Did have a convo with wife - she has still done NC, but is still struggling with having to leave the 'love of her life'.
Started new job today. Busy, and tired. Will write more tomorrow.
Will update everyone tomorrow.
Congrats on the new job!
And don't think about all that "love of her life" crap. It's all confused BS and you know it.
"Love of her life." Might need some pebto bismo to keep that down. Makes me want to puke. Hope the new job treats you well.
Journaling.
Not much has changed on the homefront with wife for the last few days. To catch you up:
-Sunday we did have time together in the house. I have gotten MUCH better at just listening. Yeah me! What my wife is going through is withdrawls - plain and simple. Wife is mad at me, and the sitch, since her heart was with OM. She knows it was wrong. She knows the future together is the way to go. She just doesn't love me right NOW. More like hate. Most days she can talk with me, but doesn't like to look at me. She's scared of me. Scared? Yes. She feels like she can't trust me (snooping, porn addiction, lies in the past). Hurt that she can't talk with OM, getting her fix, so I'm the target of her anger. Doesn't feel safe, as in I haven't given her a level of safety in the marriage. The IC did let me know that if W did keep my porn secret for so many years, she held onto it, and it built resentment and bitterness. Didn't realize how holding onto that 'secret' was so damaging - I do now.
-W still doesn't know what is going to happen after the hold on the D... I think this is still her withdrawls. Still talks D once in a while, or giving up. Still seeing IC.
-I have continued to think of my W before myself - cleaning, helping out around the house, volunteering to take kids places, etc. Showing I care - again my W's LL is acts of service. Expectations are very high since father did almost everything for family.
-I have become much more comfortable with just ME and not having W as a support wall to lean on.
-Kids are not seeing any fighting, more of a normalized house, which is good
-W is starting conversations with me much more. Good morning/good night every day, but also starting to open up about work, what's on her mind.
-Wife still thinks I haven't forgiven her. It's her opinion, and it's not true. I did forgive, but still had hurt to work through. I'm to the point NOW that the hurt does not influence my actions or words to her 90% of the time. I do think the hurt has to come out, but there's enough pressure out of the tank that it won't 'blow' anymore. I can logically thikn before I shove my foot in my mouth. I see that I caused quite a bit of the bitterness before the PA/EA. It put her into a position that she had a choice to start the affairs. All my actions up to the PA/EA are mine, and caused great harm. I have to continue to learn how I can put my W first in the marriage.
-My wife still has bad days and throws me attitude and disrespect. I am willing to take the 'spew' and see it for what it is - a cry for me to stop my old ways (doing that), and help her (be like a sponge that can feel her pain, and understand where she's at).
-I started my new manager job and really think it's going to work out well. If it doesn't, I'm not all that worried - I can always go back to sales, but the fit is better than I expected. I am very confident that I would have failed as a manager 3 months ago - I have a very different, positive, team-oriented outlook now. I smile a lot more.
I really wish I could hug and kiss my wife. I wish I got words of affirmation from her. Will she ever want to put her heart and soul back into the marriage? Maybe. I have to continue to live 'as if' we're going to be individuals - how can I feel comfortable in my skin, but still be kind and caring, showing love through my words and actions, so that the bridge is always clear, and she can see the runway lights from a distance. It's up to her to land the plane.
The emotional/physical needs are still there, and somedays, like today when I'm off, are harder. In Christ, I find the strength and love that I was trying to find with the porn.
My wife, once she's through withdrawls, will have some choices. Will she see what happened for what it is - an EA? I hope so. She'll need to understand that we BOTH have needs that weren't met in our M, and that BOTH of us need to work on them. Couples counseling? I hope so, but W right now thinks it weird we have the same IC. I have some great ideas, but it will take her standing next to me to make them happen. I have to have faith that the fog will lift - it's still firmly around the W. My biggest worry is that my committment in the marriage will keep me in the M, but that my W will never learn to show me the love that I want from her. The vision of being unhappy in my marriage until my dying day isn't a great thought.
I had always thought that my wife, through her dominance, wanted an equal lead-dog role in the relationship. What I think she really wants is for me to lead, and for her to get a vote. That's safety to her - for her husband to lead, to possibly show love to her when she can't. I have to pray, and have faith, that as I continue to show my love of my wife through my words and actions, that one day she will come around, start to work at figuring out what would make me happy-ER (already content, just having a marriage partner who shows selfless love would be the cherry on top of the Sundae!), and doing some of those things. Until then, I need to continue to do a bit of mind-reading and trying to speak my wife's LL's.
So, I went from expecting lots from my wife, expecting sex, not getting my needs met, to using outside influences to get my 'fix', to now not using those influences, to not having expectations of my wife, and looking for happiness on my own. Is that what marriage is about? Nope. But it makes me a whole person right NOW. It puts me on a footing, a plateau, that allows for reconciliation.
Patience through perseverence. Realizing the road I'm on is MY road, and I'd love to have my wife on the same road, but if that doesn't happen, I can't control which direction she walks/sails.
I can start running this week - getting some off-the-shelf orthotics to help with my flat feet - it caused the calf strain and achilles tendonosis that I had - keeping better running form will stop the strain and tendonosis from flaring up. I'm really excited to lose the next 15 lbs. I'm hoping I can still get it gone in a month. We'll see!
Trumpet,
This too must pass. We might not know where things are heading specifically, but I am amazed at the personal growth and strength you have demonstrated through this ordeal. I am envious of your open conversations with your wife and you inspire me to be as open with my wife. Continue to listen and give her space - this is what she needs now.
As for hugging and kissing your wife and getting words of affirmation from her - relax. Give her the chance to feel things for herself. As introspective as you are I suspect you might also be able to see when things shift for your wife. But continue to kind and caring to everyone in your life, without looking for validation from your wife. This is how I think you'll become comfortable in your skin, and I think this is how you will experience even more personal growth.
Keep the faith - there is greater meaning to what is happening to you. But you need to remain open (and vulnerable) to experience it.
Been a couple days. Quick update.
Wife can have surface conversations with me, and I think that's about all she can muster. I'm not upset around her anymore. Stopped snooping around for the most part - a quick check on my facebook account shows that OM isn't a friend of W, so I'm pretty sure there's still NC.
D7 got sick, W stayed home, went into work last night - wasn't too happy that with my new job, I'm in the first week, and really didn't feel like calling in sick already. D7 did get better, so all the kids are off to school.
W continues to work out and lose weight - she's looking good. I think part of her healing will be her body image. With the improvements she's making, it can only help.
I'm still leaning towards my wife divorcing me in 2 months, when the hold on the D is done. I was a bit sad this morning being around her, but for the most part, I'm ok on my own.
I've been able to let go much better than I was. There are still moments that my heart wants a hug, a kiss, some tenderness - but those are less than they've been in 15 years. I love my wife, and show her that through actions, but could it be that I'm not IN LOVE with her?
Wife posted a worded piture on FB about missing the love of her life that came in her life and is now gone. Her heart is very much hurting. I can't do a thing for that.
My gut tells me it might take her all the way up to the end of the hold on the D to start to break free from the love of OM. Maybe longer. I'm in for a long slog.
Quick bit of advice. Unfollow your W on Facebook. It won't set off any alarms like if you unfriended her, but it will stop putting her WW images on your feed. Should help to clear your mind some.
I did unfollow her. She did as well. Just checked all her friends in her list. OM isn't there.
I have zero leeway with her. Little things are blown out of proportion. With no love, and hating me, the level of resentment is high. She's not talking to him, and wins me as a boobie prize. Not happy with that. I think to her, living in the real world [censored]. Being an administrator puts her on high stress, and the fantasy help as a pressure valve to the stress.
It's easier to just not converse with her.
Waywardness is in the heart of the person. Ending the A and having NC with OM is just one step in the right direction. It's a big step, but it doesn't mend all of the waywardness that was already in her heart before the A.
At this time, resentment and disrespect are running high. Frankly, I am quite surprised she has gone this length of time without contacting OM, especially with things between you being so tense.
Getting through the withdrawals does not assure the resentment and disrespect will get any better, however, her mood may improve. There may not be much you can do about her holding on to resentments, but you can do something about the show of disrespect.
In the meantime, staying out of her way when she's obviously in a foul mood is probably the way to go.........only b/c you are giving her time and some space to deal with her internal struggles right now. And who knows, God may be convicting her, too. Just don't fall into that thing that nice-guys do, when they avoid things b/c it's easier. I am thinking your W is taking her anger of the A ending out on you. If it continues, I think you should not continue to avoid it. Address it.
Sandi, I think you're right. Her anger isn't in what I'm doing, it's that she's angry the affair is done. She did say that she might be depressed right now, something she hasn't said before.
She thinks having the same IC is weird - the goal would be to get to couple MC someday with the counselor. She has mentioned her concern is that we're talking about her in my sessions (we're not - the focus is on me, and how I can be a loving husband for her, even when she doesn't reciprocate). I think this comes to her thinking I'm judging her all the time. I'm not, I think she's judging/condeming herself, and is moving anger from herself to me. In the beginning, I did all the usual things, but in the last month, I've seen my hurt lessen, and I'm giving it to God.
There is a distance between us now - for me, it wasn't there before, or I didn't notice. I hope once my W is through withdrawls, and starts to make some effort on us, that we can close the distance.
I did buy her carnations - red and white - for mother's day. The kids made cards for her. I did buy her a gift, but it won't be here for a few days. I'm doing things I've never done before - we never celebrated Valentine's Day.
So, D7 was using my wife's ipod. Of course, it shows what's going on with her iPhone, which I don't have access to. See OM called her today - on Valentine's Day. Oh, so nice to see he still cares... GRRR.
Confronted wife. She was stunned I knew, was scared to tell me, and didn't know how she would. Still working on the accountability/truth thing... anyway, she didn't call him back. I believe her on that.
Her snippiness to me is showing up with family and some other friends at church. The big truth she told me today is that she thinks she's depressed. I just listened, and told her I understood that it's normal for what she's gone through.
Got some much needed sleep today, and she did as well. Got our taxes done. Finishing some work tonight, and then 2nd week in my new job. Last week was just trying to find the surface of the water - this week I'll try to doggie paddle some.
Oh that's rough Trumpet. BUT, she did not call him back. I wonder if there's a way to block his number. He must be missing his "fix" too, on VD (always loved that stood for both Valentines and Venereal disease...)
Best wishes with the job and running. Once you get the hang of pacing & breathing, running is GREAT!! Keep pushing & keep trying. In everything. You really are doing this!
When you confronted her about OM's contact, did she know at that point you had seen his message?
Trumpet, it concerns me when your posts start coming slower/fewer. Maybe b/c I have seen others do that right before they quit posting at all. I realize you must be terribly discouraged and frustrated, and perhaps feel you are getting conflicting advice, IDK. I just hope you will stick with us.
How are you doing with your addiction? This stress must put more pressure on you to cave to the porn. You have the strength from the highest power you can get!
Sandi,
I know he just took a new management position so I wonder if maybe that's what's going on?
I have faith Trump will clue us in on what's transpired here shortly. He doesn't seem like he was ready to throw in the towel...
It's Friday. I bet he posts tonight or this weekend at the latest
I'M POSTING! I'M POSTING!
Kind of like the guy with the lawnmower in the Geico ads - I'm pushing, I'm pushing real hard!
Yes, new management job is really exciting. I'm stressed, but a different stress. Small used car lot, 2 vet sales guys who were running the deal almost by themselves, and now enjoying a hungry sales guy (ME!) who wants to just sling some metal and make some money. They seem to be happy, and so am I.
On the W front - just the opposite. My tardy valentine's day gift to her was a wall hanging for her admin job she moved to. It's the wall hanging she really wanted. The first thing out of her mouth was 'You know this is like having permanent flowers in my office, right?' When she got promoted, I had flowers delivered. She was in the affair big then, and couldn't even look at them.
That statement got me puzzled, and a bit hurt, but told her we could send it back if she wanted... or I could take it to work if she couldn't stand to look at it, since to her it reminds her of me, and she still hates me right now.
Later on Wed. night I did log into her Facebook - still had her login, the only one left. She has cut me out of her phone and email. Didn't find anything, so logged off and went to bed. The first thing she asked me the next morning was if I had logged in at 11PM - I told her yes, since I had the login, and was just checking up, but didn't find anything. She then proceeds to tell me... yep, she's back to texting OM again.
So Sandi - you were right! Her depression/struggle with withdrawls put her back in touch with OM. I guess that missed call on valentine's day wasn't just a 'blip' on the radar.
She, of course, started spewing, covering her tracks, saying the divorce is back on, she's in full-on love with him, and can't ever imagine being with me anymore. That it's finally done, and the divorce is moving forward.
I can't remember what I said, but something along the lines of 'ok', and then followed up with 'when are you going to move out then?'... to which she said she's never moving out, and when am I?
Very hardened, very confused, very angry, very depressed wife.
It's hard to watch. I'm in a place, without the porn, walking with God, a new job, and secure in my life and manhood that I see what she's doing for what it is... a patch of her life she'll probably regret, and a patch of her life she'll never get back.
I really don't know what to do except go dark, which I have. I have hardly said a word to her in the last 2 days. Got home today and she was already upstairs, the kids doing whatever, and no idea what she's doing. It really doesn't matter much. I almost think this thing has to hit rock bottom before we really can move forward.
I keep thinking of moving out - that I'd love to have my own place right now. The kids are keeping me here. My new sales manager job gives me a little more coin, and I could swing a small rental on the other side of town where work is. Just don't know if I want to upset the apple cart that much.
Is it wrong that I think that? I would be happier without her in my life. I'd be more lonely sooner or later, but I could figure things out. Man, I'm way better than I was 2 months ago, but it still stinks to be in this no-man's land. Alex, I'll take "Will she Divorce Me or Not for $500".
You have a family home. She wants out of the family. She moves out. 99% of family court judges will agree.
Since she's blame shifting, she will not consider moving out. She has said the only person moving would be me. She's super cozy having OM on her phone, me here to help around the house, help with the kids, and bring home $$$.
I feel trapped right now. Kind of want to crawl in a corner and cry.
Trumpet, I am so sorry. I agree with TXHubby that she should leave, but I also know that you need to look at what is best all around for you and the kids. Who is the primary caregiver? How much tension is in the home? I was really hoping for a better outcome for you.
It took 4 months, but dealing with the sitch is so much easier now. I can rationally think. Staying calm.
Went to church with the kids. Wife went to second service. Had a mission trip meeting - we sat apart.
Going out with a divorced guy my age tonight. He goes to church with me, but have never hung out. His ex-wife did the same thing to him, and I'm looking to someone who went through the same sitch for some pointers that I might have missed. He's a good guy, a great drummer, and very successful. Had a beautiful wife, but it sounds like she went wayward.
Pastor wants to meet up with me on Tuesday. Wed. I have counseling. Going to be an absolutely crazy week.
Have no interest in talking with wife right now. I have no clue if her phone is stuck to her head talking to OM, if they're sexting in the bathroom, and where she was for 2 hours after the mission meeting. It's gotten to that point, ladies and gents. Letting go.
I'm not all the way there, where nothing is felt in me. But true love is letting her go, and find her 'happy'. She desperately wants to be happy, and not depressed. Is it withdrawls? Will she ever be happy with me? I don't know, and only God knows. She doesn't see the commitment aspect as all that important to her, so I'm ok now letting her find herself. Man, it's going to really hurt the kids. That's what I fret about. But she deserves to be happy, if she's never been happy, she should try to find it. Maybe she'll come back. I don't know - I'd love to see if we could put things back together. But it's not my choice. Time to be nice to her, show her I care, but to live as if.
Great mindset, Trump.
You are becoming a man only a fool would leave.
So sorry Trumpet. That really [censored]. The first thought I had was the OM is a test. Of you, yes, but of herself. She really doesn't know what she wants, so she's testing things. It will blow up (most likely anyway). But it is *THE* worst to go through. We have to learn the hard way (to quote CS Lewis), but by God, we learn!
Hope she learns fast...
Letting go of her is not a guarantee she will turn around, but I think you have to protect your own emotional health at this time. If you truly let go, Trumpet, she will know it. You won't have to tell her or try and show her........she'll just know. Knowing that her H is "done" could go one of two ways. She may temporarily feel a sense of freedom, or feel you are calling "enough", which could shake some of the fog and she could even be attracted back. It happens all the time with women. So, I hope you can continue to feel detached and moving forward for yourself. If she does act as if she is suddenly wanting to see if you are still attached to her........play it very cool, b/c it will be tempt checking.
Once you let go, it may throw her more off balance and she may start grabbing at you for stability (support), IDK. If she was earnestly working to withdraw from the OM, then I would tell you to give all kinds of support, however, she was never fully on board (reluctant to transparency), and now is contacting OM and furious at you. In her rebellious mode, she is willfully removing herself from your umbrella of protection and provision.
Continue focusing on your new job. It seems to be helping keep you busy. She and OM may have another short breakup, or not. Basically, she has to see for herself without you trying to persuade or convince her decision. As you may know, I am a firm believer that the H of a WW should turn loose and let her alone to learn for herself. Once H let's go, then her attempts at blaming and resisting him for everything, gets more & more shallow........thus forcing some of the fog to lift and helping her see reality a bit more clearly. Obviously, every situation is a little different, and the spread of time varies.
Sandi, thanks for the words of wisdom.
I've almost completely stopped talking with W for any reason. I do get emails for appointments/kid stuff, but there is no texts, no phone calls from her - nothing. The D14 said last night, when I got home, that mom was crying when I was gone. Visited a friend from church, watched the UW Men's BB team on TV, and went home. Got home late tonight from work.
I'd rather just not care right now. I did pop on her laptop, and since I don't have any passwords, I just looked at her browser history. No OM Facebook contact, but looking up articles online that say '5 signs that your marriage is done' or something thereabouts.
She's struggling at best, and talking/texting OM at worst. I truly am happier without her around. Coming home in the last 2 weeks, if she isn't here - I'm happy. If she's here - I'm dreading it. I just have a yearning to see my kids, and be on my own now. The tear in our marriage is getting worse - the push apart more now than ever. I haven't cried in a week about anything. Just sad for her, and I get sad when I think about having to make the kids deal with this.
Sandi, thanks for the words of wisdom.
I've almost completely stopped talking with W for any reason. I do get emails for appointments/kid stuff, but there is no texts, no phone calls from her - nothing. The D14 said last night, when I got home, that mom was crying when I was gone. Visited a friend from church, watched the UW Men's BB team on TV, and went home. Got home late tonight from work.
I'd rather just not care right now. I did pop on her laptop, and since I don't have any passwords, I just looked at her browser history. No OM Facebook contact, but looking up articles online that say '5 signs that your marriage is done' or something thereabouts.
She's struggling at best, and talking/texting OM at worst. I truly am happier without her around. Coming home in the last 2 weeks, if she isn't here - I'm happy. If she's here - I'm dreading it. I just have a yearning to see my kids, and be on my own now. The tear in our marriage is getting worse - the push apart more now than ever. I haven't cried in a week about anything. Just sad for her, and I get sad when I think about having to make the kids deal with this.
The irony is now that you've reached this point (it feels so much better doesn't it?), now she'll want you more than ever. Why? Because she can't have you. It's such a good feeling when the power in a situation like this swings over to your side.
Sandi, I wish I could get some advice from you. I honestly thought W was leaning my way, but I guess I didn't play it cool enough. So I told her to leave me alone after she spent VDay weekend with ow. Now I hate it that I never see or hear from her. It's just so hard.
Since she's blame shifting, she will not consider moving out. She has said the only person moving would be me. She's super cozy having OM on her phone, me here to help around the house, help with the kids, and bring home $$$.
I feel trapped right now. Kind of want to crawl in a corner and cry.
Don't move out. It will put you in a bad spot later legally.
Thanks CWOL. I had already found that out myself, but it's just the level of tension in the house is high.
I'm not the best at hiding my emotion. The W did converse with me a bit tonight, when I was serving supper, but I don't really count it as conversation. I'm not angry or super-hurt, but now when I'm in the same room as her I'm just sad, and uncomfortable.
The hold on the D will take us through the middle of April. I guess I can last that long. We'll have to make a decision on what to do then. I'm blessed to know that there is an end-date to us living in 'super-limbo' as I like to call it.
Letting go of her is not a guarantee she will turn around, but I think you have to protect your own emotional health at this time. If you truly let go, Trumpet, she will know it. You won't have to tell her or try and show her........she'll just know. Knowing that her H is "done" could go one of two ways. She may temporarily feel a sense of freedom, or feel you are calling "enough", which could shake some of the fog and she could even be attracted back. It happens all the time with women. So, I hope you can continue to feel detached and moving forward for yourself. If she does act as if she is suddenly wanting to see if you are still attached to her........play it very cool, b/c it will be tempt checking.
Once you let go, it may throw her more off balance and she may start grabbing at you for stability (support), IDK. If she was earnestly working to withdraw from the OM, then I would tell you to give all kinds of support, however, she was never fully on board (reluctant to transparency), and now is contacting OM and furious at you. In her rebellious mode, she is willfully removing herself from your umbrella of protection and provision.
Continue focusing on your new job. It seems to be helping keep you busy. She and OM may have another short breakup, or not. Basically, she has to see for herself without you trying to persuade or convince her decision. As you may know, I am a firm believer that the H of a WW should turn loose and let her alone to learn for herself. Once H let's go, then her attempts at blaming and resisting him for everything, gets more & more shallow........thus forcing some of the fog to lift and helping her see reality a bit more clearly. Obviously, every situation is a little different, and the spread of time varies.
Lots to report, folks.
After Sunday, things went downhill. Mon/Tues were no conversations, but I did find that she had talked with OM. On Wednesday, while getting ready for work, I grabbed a shirt out of the master bedroom closet/bathroom, and did ask if she was still texting/talking with OM. No reply. This was the third time I had asked in about a week, and everytime I was stonewalled.
I then did something stupid. She left her phone on the counter, I grabbed it, and she went into a crazy fit trying to get the phone from me. I sat on the toilet, while she frantically scratched for the phone, ripping my shirt, and putting marks on my neck. I repeated about 3 times, in a calm voice during the scuffle 'W, you have a problem, and you need to get help'. I finally relented, gave her the phone, and realized out D7 watched it, and was crying hysterically.
I then retreated to the other bathroom, and called my brother, a cop. He told me to leave the house immediately. As I called, she forced open the door, and put her foot into the door to come at me, screaming that she hates me, and lots of other 4 letter words. Completely out of control.
She left with D7 to the schoolbus; I got showered and changed, and headed to my counseling session. We talked about what happened, and next steps. I called my brother and another friend. Also, my W had contacted our pastor and made mention that I had choked her and hit the dog, both of which I didn't do. I let him know what happened, and that she was now fully into the EA.
I made the decision to report the scuffle to police. No arrests were made, but one or both of us could have been, per the officer.
I called my attorney, re-started the divorce, and filed a motion to remove her from the house, based on her outburst on Wed. She received the motion on Friday. I told 2/3 kids last night, and they are in denial.
I have tried to stay away from my W as much as possible. Today, she is with the kids at a chili feed with friends from college. Unfortunately, many, if not most of them are in my wife's camp, telling her that she deserves to be happy, and to F&*$ me, and take me for what I'm worth. That I was never good enough for my W, and she deserves better.
Both my older kids believe my wife, as she has told them repeatedly that OM is 'just a friend'. She almost has our pastor convinced now as well.
It really feels like the world is closing in around me. My kids don't even believe me anymore! I do have my inner circle who believe something is seriously wrong with my wife, and really don't see any hope of R.
We have a court date of 3/15 to decide if my W gets the boot from the house. Until then, I will tread lightly, and move on with my life. I know, at this very moment, that my W is telling my college friends just how aweful I am, how I have forced her into a D, and how much better she will be without me.
She has blocked me and my family on Facebook. She is telling those who will listen that the cops were called, and she's the victim in all of this.
Very difficult stuff to take. I feel very alone right now. I hear Zeus whispering in my ear about beliefs being stronger than feelings. I know he's right, and my Savior tells me the same thing, and that in Him I believe. It's part of living life, you will have down times. This is one of them.
I can't stop my wife from contacting him. I can't stop her from being in love with him, and wanting that relationship to continue, even when she's supposedly wanted to reconcile... but not really. I just couldn't live anymore with her living the double life.
Doubts keep creeping into my mind - maybe he is JUST a friend... but even as early as last week, she mentioned she's depressed, and that she still LOVES him.
Any help/support for one of many on here who has seemed to do it all wrong?
I think I'm firmly back on the divorce diet - no hunger. But the old ticker is taking a beating right now - sleep has been very difficult.
Trumpet, you have to detach now. I know you thought you were, but you absolutely must get far from her emotionally. She is going to destroy the life you two built, and you can't be anywhere near ground zero. You said she needs help, but my challenge is always "how can you expect her to let go of OM if you can't let go of her"?
Of course she is in an EA/PA. Of course her friends are jumping on the bandwagon. Of course no one sees it your way, you can't blame your kids for believing what they wished was true, shoot, even you said you were almost doing that. And yes, the world is how it is, and most people consider divorce a natural progression in this 'get yours' world.
It hurts. It stinks. We see it all over, but somehow we think we're different, our love is special, it won't happen to us. Unfortunately our culture is twisted and this is the new normal. And because of that the odds of this somehow turning around are slim. I'm not telling you not to stand for your marriage, but hope will not serve you here, not if it means being unprepared for the reality.
Be sad. Be pissed off. Be jaded. Be bitter. Be whatever you need to be...but then calm down and take care of yourself. All of the stuff you talked about doesn't matter. What matters is what you believe, what you do. Live in a way so that if you're divorced in 3-6 months and she's remarried you won't have any regrets with how you played your cards.
Sorry you're here. There's nowhere worse. More than ever it's time to lean on God and be stubbornly appreciative for whatever you have left to celebrate.
Thanks, Zeus. Prayers are helping.
If he was just a friend she wouldn't have gone bat sh*t crazy when you grabbed her phone. Every one of her dirty little secrets are all documented in that phone. Brother, she's lost in the fog. You need to detach from her pronto and I mean really detach. She's spiraling toward self-destruction. Don't go along for that ride.
That's really awful, trumpet. I'm sorry that it has sunk this low. Something about you snooping must really trigger your W in a bad way for her to lose it like that. In my sitch, I gave up snooping back at the end of December, and I'm glad I did. I have no way to know for sure that my W is being honest other than gut feelings, but I prefer this over what it was turning me into to be snooping on her. Not being able to know if she was contacting the OM really forced me to let go and start to detach.
If there's one thing that you and your W might be able to get aligned on at this point, it's putting the kids first. Perhaps if you speak to your W from a place of vulnerability and genuine concern for the kids, you can find a way to meet in the middle and agree not to escalate the drama any further. It sounds like her madness is getting the better of her and the slightest mistake on your part gets blown out of proportion. I think the best way to make sure you don't add more fuel to the fire is to detach, like Zues says.
If he was just a friend she wouldn't have gone bat sh*t crazy when you grabbed her phone. Every one of her dirty little secrets are all documented in that phone. Brother, she's lost in the fog. You need to detach from her pronto and I mean really detach. She's spiraling toward self-destruction. Don't go along for that ride.
TxHubby,
She told our pastor that she is waiting for me to 'snap'... what I think she means is that she knows I know that what she's doing is wrong, and she wants me to go ape on her for it - to punish her. But I don't, so she's waiting for the shoe to fall, or really, the bowling ball off the top shelf.
I haven't gotten angry or upset - but I did force the issue with the phone again, and she acted bat-s&%t crazy.
I have made a commitment to stay away from her. I have started the divorce process again - we had a temp hold to reconcile, but there was no reconciling. I do think the EA will have to run it's course, and turn into a PA.
Here is what I'm going to do:
Back to the gym more often, now that I'm settled into the new job. Lose another 30 lbs, minimum.
Avoid wife at all costs, and minimal texting - essential kid stuff.
Force myself to try not to snoop - does no good, and I really need to start coming up with 'what if W says/does/presents xyz in court'. Need to have a good defense for any objections brought up.
3/15/16 will be here very soon - that's the day we're in family court, where the judge listens to both sides, and we present the case for removing my wife from the house. I'm hopeful that I win, and my wife can find a place. Excited to see what comes of the divorce. Maybe she'll turn around, but right now, it's way more likely that the Titanic hit the iceberg, and I need to find a lifejacket and boat. I need to prepare for that - I will be a single dad of 3 in 6 months. Time to man up, be ready for the added responsibility, and make the next 6 months a hard-core effort to put the best of me out there, so I'm ready for the next challenge. The Lord puts everyone through the fire for a reason - to refine them, and to make a better person on the other side. I see that in the progress I've made so far.
120 days. Porn free. Never, ever thought I'd see that day. It's unbelievable, really. And it makes me happy. Still have struggles, ladies and gents - the urge to have sex is still there, and I hope it's always there. I need to find the right person to share myself with... my wife has decided that other men are more suitable than me. I'm working on being just fine with that statement.
Great post. You have a great plan. Don't waver. You'll be much happier in the long run if you don't. You've got over half your life still ahead of you. That's awesome. Live for you and for the kids now. She's definitely living for herself and not your family. Keep getting in better shape, that's really good for you. Exercise releases endorphins and is the absolute best way to fight depression/sadness. Far better than medication.
It really is going to get better for you. Open your eyes to new opportunities to grow, learn, love. Become a new you. The you that you used to dream of being when you were a kid.
Stay the course, your plan is solid, and you're doing well. No anger. No crying. No begging. Stay the course.
So sorry to hear how badly things have turned on you. It will be hard but it sounds like you have a plan. You have grown a LOT since I started reading your posts and you'll continue to grow. I hope the best for you. Be well. Vaya con dios.
Thanks, Zeus. Prayers are helping.
I'm glad they help (& I'm sending you some as well).
What is good in your situation, is how you don't solely focus on OM, b/c you seem to own your stuff and your role in the situation. Honestly, most people focus only on the OP as if everything was "great, UNTIL OP showed up" and that prevents real change from happening. It detracts from a path of growth and change.
You're more honest and brave about this. I really commend you for that.
As long as you continue to address the issues you have and want, (e.g., the porn issues and whatever else you think is valid)
it means you are reducing the chance of this happening again, in any relationship. In the end, that's all we can do; i.e., reduce the chance of our hurting a loved one AND OR having them leave us or hurt us b/c of it.
There has never been a guarantee in any relationship, which is sometimes very hard to accept.
I can see how hard it would be with the kids believing one thing, and you knowing another. But as for what your kids will ultimately believe about you and or what your W will learn from all this, every single "lesson" I can imagine anyone learning, takes TIME.
And it's not your job to teach this lesson.
Only in time, can you kids see that you are a good catch, and only in TIME will your wife learn what OM and or you, are made of. And only with the benefit of TIME will she ever ask herself if all this was necessary.
Remember that if you continued in your prior behaviors, she would have consoled herself with the thought that You "never changed" and thus, she was "right to be with OM", etc
Give yourself some time. Get on track with your program and Maybe do it in 90 day increments of GAL and detaching and get through this.
Then reassess options. Continue to make porn a past behavior.
But EXPECT her to raise it as an issue. Your factual statement that you "have addressed this", will steal the thunder she thinks she has, the power she thinks she has over you.
Once that balloon is deflated, along with whatever else her claims are, which are also being addressed, what's left? Here's the "math" of it.
"consistent change + sufficient time = change she/they can believe in".
The calmer you remain, the more in control you are and the stronger you project yourself as. This^^ is never easy - but it's also not complicated.
Clarify your short term goals, knowing that long term goals are also served, and focus on GAL and Time...
(I can't see how anyone can detach without GAL, btw)...
Stay on your path. We are all rooting for you.
PS
I do know a couple wherein the H had an affair, his w found out and they divorced. He married the OW. He blamed the LBW for the affair and for forcing him to leave. (He also pretended to "meet" the OW later, after the divorce).
Only years later, after the first w had remarried, happily, did the kids see more of the truth.
Their mom was not what their father claimed. But what really matters is that SHE was happier.
Their dad wasn't great with his 2nd wife (the original OW). He was critical and eventually, deceitful. So, HIS cycle continued.
The truth that counts will be revealed in time. Even if the kids never know exactly what happened when
(and do they really need all the details? The problem with revealing the OM is that your wife could then point at your behaviors "causing" her to look elsewhere, etc)
As long as you know what it is happening now and "From this day forward", b/c no one can change yesterday, maybe that's all that really matters.
Trump,
Hang in there man! I'm rooting for you!
Time to prioritize you and the kids...
Let the crazy train keep on rolling; you don't need that in your life.
I know it's tough, but remember that we can only clean up our side of the street. It [censored] that she can't commit to the NC that you had both established, and you chose how you responded to the breech.
So what's the next step, man? Where do you go from here?
Good luck, and know that I'm here for you!
The lawyers are now talking.
Wife's L wants to not go to the judge. That we can work out things 'amicably'.
This is now 99% headed for D.
I have no clue how wife can rationalize her behavior, or probably losing her church... it's going to be tough.
What do I want, and what can I live with? That's the question.
Do I want the house? No.
Do I want custody? Yes. Could I live with 50/50? Yes.
Do I want W out of the house? Y. Could I live with her for the next 6 months in house? Y, but it's going to be tough.
I'm taking it one day at a time.
W has told kids and pastor, as well as friends, that OM is 'just a friend'... a friend she texts and calls for hours during the day, has professed love to, and has wanted to have sex with for months. Only the distance stops her from getting what she wants.
Learned that OM is still in the heat of battle in his D, so another 6 months at least until he's free of his marriage. So, a married man, lonely, reaches out for my hurting wife, gets her heart to commit to him, with 3 hours between them. I looked at IL iPass usage - my W never went to IL. So, he either came up, or they haven't met since Sept. That's just an amazing about of non-contact for her and him, but I guess an EA is an EA, and her heart is all the way there.
She's making such a huge, tragic mistake. I cannot stop the train. It's so, so sad, and when I cry, it's not for W anymore - it's for the kids, and the life they could have had.
I hate it when parents say 'kids are resilient', because usually that is used to excuse selfishly tearing apart their lives. The truth is that divorce is a permanent lifelong trauma that will not only affect them forever directly, it will impact their relationships, and those of their children as well. It is destructive for generations and causes more pain than we can put a figure on.
That said...they ARE resilient, and they will grow to be happy and healthy, and even if their marriages too end in divorce, they will recover from those experiences as you will.
All I can compare it too is if they were permanently in a wheelchair. Of course they will miss out on experiences that can't be replaced. But that doesn't mean they won't live full lives.
I am not minimizing that loss. I just want you to know that my children are having some amazing times with me right now, see my thread. The fact that I am not with their mom is irrelevant, we are having so much fun it hardly matters. I'm not pretending it didn't happen, and I make time for them to talk to me when it bothers them. But this is the turf we have to play on, so I say bring it on and let's play some ball!
Hang in T.
My wife called the cops on me tonight.
Second time I've had to talk to an officer in a week.
This time, after a short discussion, and her asking why I have to make things so difficult with the divorce, I asked why she was still wearing her wedding ring. She said she thought I'd take it.
I asked her for it, and she gave it to me! Great. She said I could have it. A minute later she comes back and wants it back... WTF? I said no. She did ask me a few more times, and each time I told her she had given it to me, and so that the discussion was over.
She called the cops and told them I had stolen her ring from her and wouldn't give it back.
I think the cops had a bit of a chuckle out of it.
She has really started to come unhinged.
The kids now know that the divorce is back on again. My W is repeating to anyone, including the kids, that OM is just a friend, and will never be more than that. That me asking for him to be out of her life is absurd, since he's just a friend, and that 15 years of mental abuse I've given her is justification enough for the divorce. Being a christian woman, she's using my pornography as adultery, giving her freedom to divorce me.
I'll be putting together my financials soon. I'm not in a rush, and my lawyer isn't either - we have a mandatory 120 days in WI as a cool-off period. With the stay order, and the re-engagment of the D, I think we are probably only 2 weeks into the official 4 month hold. July might even be early.
I cannot understand how a woman, my wife, has gone so far off the rails, and so far out of reality. A conservative Christian woman, who has a guilty conscience so large it drarfs almost all others I know. How love, and sin, can so manipulate a heart into believing up is down and left is right.
I truly think there is now no way to stop this train.
Trump, I have always been keeping up on your thread tho not posting as it seemed like you were getting lots of good support and advice. And I'm not here to give advice.
I want to tell you I am praying for you. It sounds like things are very hard right now and it is weighing on your mind heavily. I know you are a devout Christian and truly believe in Him. Keep the faith, keep believing in Him and yourself. Act as tho He is beside you when you act and speak. Because he is.
Stay strong Trumpet and be the man you want to be for yourself and your children.
It seems like the dark days may never end sometimes. However sometimes darkness can show you the light my friend. Be strong. Do not let your faith waiver.
Trumpet....
I know what you are going through is gruesomely hard but wanted to commend you for standing up to your wayward wife. Making her mad and bringing the natural consequences of her behavior to the forefront is actually the best chance you have of breaking her sinful spirit.
She almost broke before and tried to hold out and go "no contact" but just as I told you the pull of the affair and withdrawal almost always result in a little bit more contact followed either by absolute "no contact" OR what your wife is doing....doubling down on the affair because withdrawal did nothing other than convince her that her feelings for OM were real based upon the rush she felt when she started talking to him again.
In my situation, I did as you and I calmly talked to her. OM was long distance so them meeting up wasn't an issue so, despite her nastiness....I just explained to her exactly how she was feeling and why she was feeling it. It was kind of wasted breath until she understood it herself. It's near impossible to "teach" a wayward but what I did do was just keep saying "no" to her. She had no money. No job. No hope of relocating our children to OM's state. She just wanted to cake eat and continue deciding NOTHING about the future. Her affair was completely unworkable as a long term relationship. OM couldn't pay for her to visit and I wasn't "allowing" her to leave. I wasn't going to play the part of the fool while she decided OUR lives.
I see you doing the same thing. Accepting the divorce as likely and fighting things hard on that front now is your best option. Don't forego the motion for exclusive use of the house. Even if you lose you are setting the tone for the whole case with that first hearing in front of your judge being all about your wife's outrageous conduct. You shout for full custody, hope for PRIMARY custody with 50/50 and JOINT PRIMARY being the minimum. (Remember....if she divorces you she's never going to escape this wayward mentality and she'll never become a good parent again. Her darkness, unfortunately, becomes permanent and your children need protection from her even if they don't know it). The more custody you get the less likely she can ever file a modification motion on you seeking to relocate her and the children out of state. What can happen is after your divorce becomes final she immediately remarries OM who lives in another state. The court could actually approve that as one legitimate reason in her favor (among other factors) to allow her to relocate.
Also....in court don't go overboard "owning" your porn problem. The court is not church. The judge won't be granting you absolution. Instead he or she will be weighing blame as potentially one of the factors in your divorce case including custody dispute or in computing alimony. Therefore, don't ever refer to it as some addiction or anything she complained about constantly. Instead it's an issue that is embarrassing, that you haven't done in 4, 5, 8 months and feel you have addressed. Emphasize that until you wife had a relationship with OM, it wasn't a problem and since then you've eliminated it and yet she still choose to continue her relationship with OM. Use it as a chance to demonstrate in court that OM is the most pressing and overall issue in the breakdown of the marital relationship...not her justifications and rationalizations for continuing the affair. I'm just guessing but typically way wards like to bring up rationalizations and justifications AFTER they start a relationship with someone else. Sure she didn't like it and maybe even griped about it. It was probably a convenient resentment for her to withhold her intimacy in the relationship as well. It would have been much harder for her to rationalize not having sex with you had she not had the crutch of your supposed porn addiction. Amazingly, once couples recover.... I have found that (non-obsessive and irregular) porn use and other issues the wayward had with their betrayed husband just become these total backseat issues once love is restored into the marriage. In other words...it isn't that you looked at porn ever that's the issue it's that your wife doesn't (didn't) feel loved and cherished by you. Don't get me wrong. It's good you stopped and took control. It's good you apologized. You just don't have to own any part of your wife's choice to cheat on you (and her family) because you used porn in a public courtroom or elsewhere. Consider this....why does she get to justify her relationship with OM based upon your porn use but you can't justify your porn use on her breaking her vows and withholding sexual relations?? Almost every married man I've met with this issue would give up porn in a second if their wives agreed to have sex with them whenever they wanted (within reason). If it's that easy to give up...it's not a true addiction. As far as court....your porn use may certainly been a very bad sinful habit that you've since stopped, repented of and apologized for but calling it an addiction is hyperbole. In court, I feel labeling it as an addiction makes it sound as though you couldn't control yourself and were looking at porn everywhere ---- on your phone, your computer, your apple watch, in front of your kids, in church, on headphones. It also implies that other behaviors that root themselves in porn could be present - like drug use, prostitution, strip bars, call girls and massage parlors. It could make you appear a riskier custodial parent and the judge could use admissions as justification to award your wife more alimony...essentially saying your marital misconduct was the primary reason for the divorce (which it is NOT). Now that you are going to be fighting a court battle how you frame the issue becomes important ....especially if ever in writing..consult carefully with your attorney and be sure your wife never finds your thread here where you've taken on way too much blame for her choices.
Your wife turned around last time she neared rock bottom and you found her pouring over family pictures in her bed crying. The loss of marital and family history is significant. OM is a stranger.....you are not. I still think that considering your wife's justifications and rationalizations you are better off NOT completely going dark on her and shutting her out. Continue with your GAL but don't pass up opportunities to talk to her IF and WHEN she pursues having conversations. Don't argue. Stay calm. Let her continue to voice her anger and upsettedness. You don't have to win the argument you just have to listen. Don't say "i love you" but do be honest when you tell her that you'd be willing to work on your marriage but that her relationship with OM is devastating to you and must end before you will commit to anything (including negotiating the divorce - do NOT discuss divorce with her....let your attorney handle it and if she's unhappy with things....blame your attorney and merely tell her you'll talk to your attorney about it while promising nothing). At some point cut off the abuse and get out of there to protect yourself emotionally but being willing to meet her need for communication and listen to her will help you someday if and when she turns from her sin and repents.
Trumpet - I have been reading your posts but this is my first time commenting. I just wanted to say how sorry I am about your situation. It's so hard to watch the people we loved for so long turn into strangers that do unthinkable things. Stay strong for yourself and your kiddos. ((Hugs))
Georgia, Mowgli, broke - thank you all. It's been a tough few days.
We had an irate customer tonight, she was super emotionally charged. Was crying, then laughing, then angry... all because she herself didn't commit to a vehicle, and it sold today, before she could buy it.
Much of her behavior was just like my wifes. I felt very sad for her, and stayed calm.
I'm the new sheriff in town, and the salesperson, who is a vet, told me I should go into therapy, as I knew what to do with her, to de-escalate the sitch, and actually produce the option for a sale with her tomorrow.
So, I have a bit of hope that I've changed. Still have no hope in wife coming around. She is not one to admit that she's wrong, well... ever.
I think there are a couple condos up the street that look interesting. Anyone have a condo here? If so, will a condo association let me turn a 2 bedroom into a 3 bedroom?
Hey Trumpet. It's been a while since I've been on and I'm sorry to see where you are right now. I'm praying for you.
Regardless of what happens, know that things will get better. Not now, and not soon, but they will.
Hang in there and be well.
With the kids today and tomorrow. W is getting drunk with a friend tonight. Tomorrow is church and cleaning the house. W wants to work all day on Sunday...ok, whatever. That was what she was complaining that I did!
Pastor and either an elder or another pastor want to talk to us both about the divorce. I think they're concerned w is doing the D for unbiblical reasons. At this point I don't care. The storm isn't on the horizon; its here. I'm batting down the hatches. Time to be ready for the ship to battle the storm. I shall overcome the storm; the storm shall not overcome me.
Pastor and an elder had a talk with us on Sun. night.
I was in Chicago for a couple days on work.
Posting tonight quickly to tell you that pastor and elder both witnessed my wife confess to her EA still, just in a round-a-bout way, but they recognize she is hurting, looks strung-out, and is cold/emotionless with others. Almost as if her soul is supressed.
Pastor also witnessed my wife drive off after talking with me. She is in denial about the EA - she has others now believing it's just a friend, and I'm convinced that the D is just a way for her to reconcile the wrongness of her decisions.
I can't stop the train. I have come to accept what is going to happen.
On the way back from Chicago I had a nice bout of lonliness. I did some prayer, stopped and got some coffee, and I worked through the uncomfortable feelings. Still a little off tonight - my counseling homework on addictions talked about what penalties/damages have my addiction caused, and I had to admit and put pen to paper stating that my marriage is likely done because of my porn addiction. My wife's history and her own demons helped to put us here, and really, if wife wanted to reconcile and worked hard on us, we'd be back to working on things.
I just think it will not end in reconciliation at this time. Continuing to work on myself, but getting to the gym with the new job is proving difficult. My new manager job does seem to be calming down a bit, though.
Wife texted me to 'have a nice time' in Chicago - the first really positive text I have gotten from her in a couple weeks. I just said thanks and moved on.
I'm actually not even home yet - going to pack up and get home, which is about 15 min. away. Trying to get some homework for work and for my addictions group done.
If anyone is still reading my thread, it would make me feel better to hear your opinions. Like I said, was a lonely day today. I'll be better tomorrow, I know... but keep posting. I promise I will.
Hear this from someone else who has addiction as a component in the downfall of his M Trumpet - it's not 100% your fault. I mean that. I've had a lot of people tell me the same thing. Sure it's a contributing factor, but there are a lot of contributing factors in an M. Your wife played her role, you played yours.
I will venture to say that your addiction was also a reaction to your M as much as a challenge in it. I know mine was. We find ways to cope, cover up, numb from, and dissociate from what's hurting us. Or from the ways we need to express ourselves and can't. In your case the branch was porn. Had it not been porn, the root would have chosen another way of you acting out. I'm not saying we weren't without fault, but addiction is multifaceted.
The one thing that is true about it is what you do with it moving forward. Does it come back now that you're in hell? I don't think so. You use the recovery from your addiction as the stepping stone to healing your life. Porn was the manifestation, now you're working on the causes. And you're doing so openly and bravely. I still argue that porn is the secret addiction in the world. We have numbers for everything else because people crash cars, end up OD'ing, or otherwise destroy their health and lives, but porn can be kept a secret forever. All the while it silently decimates families, and people's lives.
So celebrate what you can my friend. You're clean. You're working a program. You're facing your demon like a boss. No matter what happens in your M, your life is going to be amazing. I speak from experience. I wouldn't take my W back if it meant living in a dissociated manner again. I couldn't do it. Neither could you.
Now you're up leveling. You went from JV to Varsity. You can never go back. The game would be too slow and boring. You're permanently on Varsity now. Next will be NCAA, then the Pro's. Every up level brings new responsibilities, new abilities, things you fall in love with, and a chitload of stuff you simply can't tolerate any more. You just won't be around it, it will repulse you. You'll be shocked you ever allowed situations in your life to exist that you did. And you'll know that you did by numbing out to do so.
Welcome to the rest of your life Trumpet. This chapter still has some land mines in it, but they won't last forever. And once you're through them, the view...oh the view, it will take your breath away. Rd asked me once, "Now that you're a man only a fool would leave, what does that make your WAW?" I ask you the same.
Keep striving Trumpet, keep being bold, and brave, and honest. Life's amazing.
Sober hugs to you,
PP
You are responsible for contributing to a marriage that was difficult.
She is 100% responsible for choosing to abort the marriage. This wasn't your choice, it was hers. Saying you are responsible would be like telling a woman she is responsible for being raped because she wore suggestive clothing. It is appalling to me.
I appreciate wanting to be accountable for your shortcomings, and putting your energy into what you can control. I agree with all of that. It doesn't do any good focusing on your STBX. So by all means put the focus on you and only you. But I'd also say put the focus on the present and only the present. Don't look into the future. Just focus on the here and now, and take care of business. Time will pass and the road will be revealed. Don't worry about where it leads, if you take the right steps it will go where you're supposed to be.
I agree with what GB said about being careful of embracing the title of being 'the addict that destroyed your marriage'. I'm ok with you following your bishop's or counselors guidance to a point, in a confidential setting. But it is tempting to take on more than our share of burden to appear fair, just, etc. But it is actually false humility. And it is a covert contract. It has the expectation that if you are unfair in her favor that she will recognize that, or that God will and will praise you for it. But you know perfectly well you didn't end the marriage. Any more than your W did by withdrawing sexually from you. God helps those that help themselves too. Own your mistakes, but don't try to outrighteous her. Your kids need you. Just let it all go, and do what you need to do today.
Oh..and I forgot in my earlier rant...
Had your STBX asked you to quit porn and recommit to your marriage, stating she would do whatever she could to rebuild, and address her neglect of your needs, but that she couldn't live in a marriage in which you used porn continuously...if you had declined this, and she had then initiated a separation, and created some space for personal healing, to work on herself, and to allow you both the time to see what life was like on your own, all the while being open to revisiting reinvesting in your M...if after a few years of separation you compounded your porn with affairs and other women...THEN she could go ahead and file, knowing there wasn't more she could do.
Instead she got frustrated, had extramarital connections with another man, felt she was missing something, bomb dropped you, and never looked back despite your willingness to address your contributions to the breakdown of the M.
Night and day my friend. Night and day.
That's why I am so firm on 1) staying married, and 2) if there is a TRUE reason that separation is unavoidable, that the exiting spouse should separate and remain single and uninvolved for several years and stand by their failing M. It is the ONLY way to avoid having the WAS influenced (tricked?) by the hopes of a better R. If the WAS is comparing the M at it's worst to the fantasy of a new R in their mind at it's best, well, the M will lose. But if there was a 3-5 year window of remaining married but separated, people might not be so quick to walk, and they would likely have time to see their partner change in ways the were convinced were impossible.
Trump,
You're doing really, really well... mean that.
Keep up the awesome work!
Trumpet,
Zues and PigPen gave you excellent feedback. Take it to heart!
Hey trumpet. WAnted to stop by and see how you'd doing. I hope you are finding the new job satisfying and able to appreciate all the good that is in your life, like your kids.
Georgia, Mowgli, broke - thank you all. It's been a tough few days.
We had an irate customer tonight, she was super emotionally charged. Was crying, then laughing, then angry... all because she herself didn't commit to a vehicle, and it sold today, before she could buy it.
Much of her behavior was just like my wifes. I felt very sad for her, and stayed calm.
I'm the new sheriff in town, and the salesperson, who is a vet, told me I should go into therapy, as I knew what to do with her, to de-escalate the sitch, and actually produce the option for a sale with her tomorrow.
The wonderful good news here^^ is that you are identifying new found behaviors in yourself, that you welcome. And to that, I say "Bravo". May as well get something good out of all these ordeals and to be clear, that IS a good thing that can come of these tribulations. The folks who work it out within, grow and become better, more loving and more content people.
For those of us who feel this way, I can also say most of the remaining relationships we have, are enhanced and more valued by us. That is no small thing.;
But be vigilant, & beware... I say this from personal experience, that we must beware of false humility and self righteousness that benefits, truly, no one.
So, I have a bit of hope that I've changed.
It seems like it, and hope isn't dangerous IF it's not accompanied by "expectation" which is where we tend to go...and that's what bites us in the rear if we are not careful.
It's my hope that your hope can exist without the next sentence extending into an expectation AND OR a judgement on your wife...which unfortunately it does in the next sentence...
Still have no hope in wife coming around. She is not one to admit that she's wrong, well... ever.
I urge you to reflect on the "value" of this^^ sentence. Is there a point? I'm asking sincerely.
My main concern is that It could keep you stuck in victimhood and blame, which absolutely DEcreases the chance of reconciliation, AND detracts from your own path of growth. Plus I believe the taint of hypocrisy will occur to her.
Don't get me wrong Trump, I hate her behavior.
I hated choices my h made, too. Back then, I completely believed - that my h's choices were wrong and mostly selfish. I can still say that for the most part, I still think that's true.
Which leaves me with this: "so what?"
I mean, so what if my h made some selfish decisions? MUST this belief lead me, inevitably to divorce him b/c he made some lousy mistakes?
Obviously I don't think so. We all have to decide what our limits are.
I learned that making him wrong, even if that was knowable and true, did nothing FOR ME --AND OR our marital situation, except that it made it harder on everyone involved. Seriously, it worsened things to focus on HIS wrongness or on HIS choices. It hurt my kids and made me feel like a victim which led me to other non productive things.
Looking back, I think I must have believed, perhaps at some subconscious level, that being "right" in my marital woes, actually had value. That was a mistake of large proportion and delayed my growth by a solid year.
All that mattered, in reality, was for me to make sound choices motivated SOLELY by the desire to do the loving, healthy thing. NOT "teaching" h a lesson or "winning" the battle, or "showing him the consequences of his bad choices", OR being declared right, etc.
Just consistently trying to do the right thing was literally all that matters and it was always the only thing I could control.
ALL other efforts at changing or judging our spouses are wasted & often destructive
Similarly, those comments about the "wayward spouse", being wrong, but not knowing it, noting that the spouse is "not going to church anymore", (hard not to sound smug) and noting that "now the Spouse is justifying his/her behavior"---well, newsflash, they always justify their behavior - or they wouldn't engage in it--- ETC
These^^ comments and criticisms are really just more attempts at controlling or changing our spouses.
However, In fact, our spiritual and emotional paths involve zero judgement of our spouses.
food for thought and NOT meant to blame you. Just wanting to keep you on track on your own path.
This must & will get better.
I think there are a couple condos up the street that look interesting. Anyone have a condo here? If so, will a condo association let me turn a 2 bedroom into a 3 bedroom?
This is totally dependent on the specific condo association. Just as their dues vary, so do their rules.
25yrsmlc,
Thank you for posting and your comments. They made me think! That is always the goal, right?
I do believe in right and wrong, based on Biblical values. Emotional affairs are wrong. My pornography was wrong. I didn't see how much it hurt my wife until I was able to objectively look at my actions, after the fact, from a '100 ft' perspective. I think my W will have the same revelations, after the divorce. Maybe she finds true love with her affair partner - it might happen. Maybe she just exchanges one set of problems for another, which I am inclined to believe.
I understand you wanting to let go of always being right, and of always 'grinding the axe' since hurt and harm was done to you... I did the same initially, but realize always blaming my W 100% isn't correct. It took BOTH of us, and both of us messed up.
I continue to believe that marriage is the right answer. My wife does not. I can't control the D, since we're in a no-fault state. One person can decide to end a marriage. I still love my wife, just it's transforming into a different love. No physical contact, no words expressed, no actions of gratitude... it's a one-way street for my love. I will continue to be kind, but I must be distant, since showering her with love that she doesn't want, and will not reciprocate, only leads to tremendous disappointment.
The fog I was living in has cleared somewhat - I now know that I could love another person, I could make a fantastic husband for someone, and that I can handle the kids on my own. I'd love to have my own place right now - it will come in time.
I got the detailed phone bill a day ago - first time I was able to see how many texts the wife was sending, as well as what the phone numbers she was sending to. I got 20 or so texts. Her 'friend' or really affair partner in Chicago got 1,200 texts last month. Difficult to see that it's just a friend, as she's told others, including our kids.
I set the boundary that I would not live in an open marriage. Thus, my gut told me she was full-on with the guy again. The reconciliation order was a farse, and my W knew it. I started up the divorce not because I believe in it, but because we had a 90 day time table to WORK on the marriage before we BOTH had to tell the court to dissolve the divorce. That was never going to happen with my wife back in love with the OM.
I have come to accept that the marriage will dissolve and die. I have come to accept that I will move on, and most likely find someone else down the road. I still have work on myself to do, and I'm excited about that. I still have hope that someday my wife would want to work on herself to the point that she'd entertain the possibility of remarriage. I also know that I'm not going to wait around for her. I have a life to live, and I have needs and desires that need to be met, if I was to be in a relationship.
I know there are more tears ahead, and my kids will not enjoy the divorce. I keep on thinking what is best for them, as well as for me. My decisions are now based around making sure they know they're loved and cherished.
I hope you had a great weekend trumpet. I understand it's not all roses right now, the main thing is you are doing what you see is best for you and your kids.
Absolutely there will be down days. It's all part of the grieving process, and there is no visible finish line. It just stops one day. Trust me. I am still grieving my M, but i don't grieve first M. We have been apart 8 years and it took me probably 2-3 to get through that one. However I didn't DB, I drank. So I have faith this time will be quicker and better for me.
You will come out of this the best Trumpet you can be, that I do not doubt. It won't be easy, the best things usually aren't though.
Thanks, V.
You're an inspiration.
My 40th. Celebrated at my mom and dads. Took D7/S12 with me. Wife was with D14 at anime convention. She didn't even wish me a happy bday. She is so enveloped in the affair, she didn't even put the kids to bed.
I'll still get her a card for her bday next month. I will rise above it. I have to. My beliefs will not allow me to follow my emotions. I do hurt some days- less now than a month ago. Looking forward to my own place, and starting life out again. My kids will be there with me, half the time, but I have great plans. And they deserve a happy dad, and a happy mom. I sure hope my wife finds her happy soon. I don't think it's down the rabbit hole she's looking, but you never know.
Gotta get on the walking/running thing again this week. Still, I'm hanging about 30 lbs. less than I was when the bomb dropped in late Oct. Proud of that.
Another 25 or so lbs and I'll be at my goal weight. Need to pack a few lbs of muscle on.
Glad you had a great bday. Like you I plan on at least wishing W a happy bday next month too. The day after our anniversary.
It's awesome you have a goal for you le life planned. Once our minds start to clear we focus on the important things.
Stay strong Trumpet.
I'll still get her a card for her bday next month. I will rise above it. I
I find it interesting how a LBH finds loop holes for pursuing a WW who has been completely awful to him. "Rising above it" seems to be one of the favorites. Why does rising above it require pursuit?
As a WW, she will see it as you pursuing her.
Yes rise above the situation.Be a better man.
I would not get a card if I were you. I do not see any advantages for you to give her one and several reasons not to. Plus not receiving anything could even help your W think more. But at this stage your decisions should be ALL about YOU.
Best wishes.
You sound like you did the first time you really detached, Trump.
I can sense that in you and that is good. Maybe seeing the phone bill really put it into perspective for you?
Either way, Happy Birthday!
I know it probably doesn't seem that way, but I also know that you've got that realist mentality right now, too. You may not know what the road ahead entails, but you know that it will be hard. I think you are ready for it, though!
Keep us in the loop, ok?
Trumpet
Detach my lovely. A 40th is a big deal, really really big or you. Not marking it says something that WW has sacked you as her H. Detach and yes it hurts. My WH recently had his 60 I did not mark it and I let it pass. It did send me in a loop and I coped.
Let WW birthday pass you by, let it go. If the kids do cards then assist if you must for your kids, although I recommend you watch it pass you by.
Just my 2c.
Thanks, V.
You're an inspiration.
My 40th. Celebrated at my mom and dads. Took D7/S12 with me. Wife was with D14 at anime convention. She didn't even wish me a happy bday.
She is so enveloped in the affair, she didn't even put the kids to bed.
Mind^^^ Reading.
A few reasons she did not acknowledge your birthday, Other than having an OM,
such as wanting to remind you that she's free to do as she wishes, and or that she's "too poor to buy" you anything (So she needs alimony or more child support) or that she's "trying to make her feelings clear to you/not play games/not get your hopes up" and the only way she knows how is to be cold.
That^^ is not rare behavior, btw.
But there's No good reason for YOU to be wondering why she missed it...So I suggest you spend No energy on mind reading games b/c it's an endless, cheese-less tunnel.
You're pondering things that are Unknowable, & it's a waste of your precious energy.
I feel as if the LONG note I posted to you a page ago, flew right by you. 
This post of yours is about HER, and Your reaction to her...(which is still about HER---and So I ask you this:
How much time/energy do you believe you should spend on something you cannot know AND cannot control??
I'll still get her a card for her bday next month. I will rise above it. I have to. My beliefs will not allow me to follow my emotions.
I"m not sure what your goal is with this^^ action. I don't know what you're rising above, or are you trying to "show her" that you're a good person and UNLIKE HER you won't forget a spouse's birthday? Something tells me she'll read your behavior as holier than thou.
But my question is what your fear is here? Are you worried that your kids will think you're disloyal or mean or what? What do they know IF
IF you want to appear caring while NOT actively pursuing, simply support the kids buying or making her something...that would be a gesture of kindness that is not pursuing.
But getting a card for her, just from You, is pursuit. Period.
I do hurt some days- less now than a month ago. Looking forward to my own place, and starting life out again. My kids will be there with me, half the time, but I have great plans.
And they deserve a happy dad, and a happy mom.
Well that's interesting wording. Allow me to add a few other things kids deserve AND OR need...
They deserve parents who love & value their children deeply, the children in a family WILL benefit from seeing parents who overcome adversity, who process, work through and then grow, from grief,
they deserve to see their parents survive a broken heart, (which mandates that we actually experience one)
Kids deserve parents who let them see SOME of our grief process, so that when their hearts break, which they inevitably will do, they'll know it's survivable and that their broken heart/pain will not last forever and will Not always make you cry...
Our children need to know they will always be loved & cherished... they deserve parents who learn from mistakes,
Further, your children deserve to know what YOU can impart from all this, and model to them, such as
the value of redemption & forgiveness, the rigors of commitment
and again, the value of that challenging element... forgiveness....silently giving it, thoughtfully asking for it when appropriate.
Wouldn't this^^^ be a wonderful legacy to leave our children??
I sure hope my wife finds her happy soon. I don't think it's down the rabbit hole she's looking, but you never know.
R I don't get this.
You mean to say, you hope she comes to her senses soon? OR do you truly wish her well even without you, and that you are letting go??
OR are you being sarcastic & wishing she'd be miserable because she left you, feels deep regret and then returns to you?
HEY, It's very normal to feel this^^ way,!
Pretending you are "above this", & hoping she's happy without you are problems in my opinion. For one , I don't think it's true, and lying even just to ourselves ends up confusing us down the road.
Even though it's probably no big deal, I wonder if it might ultimately be better for you if you simply stayed openly fully honest with yourself, Here and elsewhere, so that you don't find yourself acting out unexpectedly...
Just a thought.
Gotta get on the walking/running thing again this week. Still, I'm hanging about 30 lbs. less than I was when the bomb dropped in late Oct. Proud of that.
Another 25 or so lbs and I'll be at my goal weight. Need to pack a few lbs of muscle on.
Well, I'm always in favor of looking our best and feeling good!! And even though getting healthy & in shape is for YOU (and not to impress or re-attract her),
it's good to know that weight loss & our physical appearance are visually verifiable & clear.
No one can say "you'll never change!" because you just did! No need to point it out b/c when people who knw you and THEN e
And Note---- No walk away spouse returns to a marriage they left; UNLESS
they believe that marriage can be better/different - than it was before they left.
Most WAS's want their LBS' need to change. And if the WAS has been hurt or wounded before, they will FEAR reconciliation b/c they fear being hurt again,
and they don't believe that it's possible for the LBS to change.
Your w is effectively saying, "YOU must do the bulk of change but I don't think you will or can" or "too little too late".
So what happens if you really do change. I mean, what happens to all her rationalizations? IF you spend quality
Ah, we need not wonder. Time reveals the truth.
25yrsmlc,
I'd have to disagree with some of what you just posted.
Truly detaching to me would be loving my wife, even if she doesn't love me. Christ commands me to love others, even if they don't love in return. Being cold and dark to her for the rest of my life just won't look all that attractive to her, if I want her back. MWD stresses to be as if, as if I'm happy without her, and to show my STBXW that I'm moving on, and have changed into a man only a fool would leave.
Completely focusing my entire life on me, and only me, would be selfish. Now, am I a pushover husband, begging for another chance? Nope. I hardly talk to the W anymore. So, would it seem to her that I'm being selfish? I think so, but it's really me putting some distance between us. I'm not ready to reconcile anymore. I'm still working on ME, and working through lonliness sometimes, other times it's a bout of anger, sadness, defiance (I'll show HER!), pride (that's the killer sin, right there), or pity.
On the comment of my wife finding her happy: If she's in the EA, probably soon to be PA (started taking birth control again), she has huge needs to find happiness with someone else, as she can't find it in herself. She's still workign out 6 days a week, continues to lose weight, and looks great. I think it's a MLC now, and that puts why her inability to stop the affair was so tough. If my wife is truly happy without me, and she moves forward with her life, I'm getting to be OK with that. The rejection is tough, but I did do things in the marriage, I did help cause the situation. I didn't cause her to start an affair, that's on her. However, if the MLC and EA/PA end down the road, and I'm happy, have moved on, and with someone else (I hope to be sooner or later), I can see how difficult and depressing her life could become. She's about to lose her church, 1/2 time with her kids, possibly her house, some of her friends, and she has a super-high regret meter. It would go off the charts. If I have moved on, and I'm happy, I'd naturally still care about her, and not want to see her depressed or unavailable to be a good mom to the kids. I just dread having to deal with the repercussions of her actions now. I'll never be able to get her completely out of my life - she's the mother to my kids, and I will aways care about her.
A friend of mine, who's in the same sitch as me, has told me his counsel has reminded him that he'll deal with the situation appropriately at that time, and not to deal with the 'what if's' until they truly appear in your life. It's good to gameplan, but unhealthy to constantly react now to what might happen 1,2,3 years down the road.
My thought of the card was just to be nice - but I do see from the posts above that it would be seen as manipulative from my wife, so in that regard, I won't do anything, but I will express to the kids they need to make some cards up for mom.
On the D front: I did send an email to the W, and she agreed to everything I want. I'd love to have the kids 100%, but a 50/50 split would be the best for them. Financially, I might be able to make it out ok, as the wife keeps telling me 'she doesn't want my money'. Fine by me!
I don't want the house - she'll refi, which will be dicey, but hopefully she can. I'll move into a condo or apt. close to the house, making it easy for the kids to go back and forth. I want the minivan, and will pay her half of the value. I keep my 401k, she keeps hers. She pays me half of the equity in the house upon refi of it.
I will most likely drop the motion to kick her out of the house and gain 100% custody, as it most likely won't happen... my gut, as well as what my L said. But it did help set things up for me.
Work is good. Challenging some days, but good. Support from my church, friends, and family has been good. I didn't sit and cry on my 40th - for now, it's just a day in the life of Trumpet.
In fact, very few tears the last couple weeks. A few bouts of lonliness and sadness, but I'm confident in moving forward. I'm much more at peace with things. I still see my wife as broken, and needing help. She says she's fine, and we're done, and the D is moving forward. I'm facing reality, loving my kids every day, and preparing for the next stage in life.
A little journaling.
LONG day at work - 12+ hours, and only manager at both our used and new stores. Just wanted to get a few things off my chest.
Wife tries to pick a fight with me at almost every opportunity. The little chat we had a few nights ago was mostly spew from her. Was waiting for the detailed bill from our cell phone plan - it came, and she took it. Left the front and back pages for me to pay the bill - when I asked to see the rest of it, she refused. I got the detailed bill online - sneaky Trumpet! The 1,200 texts to OM in Chicago is enough evidence for me. It's really sad to see.
Going to see a few condos a couple blocks away from the house next tuesday. If I like one, I'll probably put an offer on it. It's the best for the kids - they'd have mom and dad just a couple blocks away, and in emergencies could go to either place.
I feel bad for W - she tells me she's the happiest she's been in the 15 years we've been married, but she doesn't look all that happy. The kids don't see too much of her - when she is home, she's in her bedroom.
Enjoying my new job, and excited to get my own place soon. I think if the D moves forward after I drop the motion to force W out of the house, we'll be done by July. Maybe - that's my hope.
I keep up with lots of stories here - Rednail, 2tl2tl, Zeus, 1313, and a bunch of others. Keep posting, everyone. I will as well, although I think I'm in the long middle slog of my adventure.
Tough go, trump.
She is deep in the fog and I have a feeling she'll end up having a rude awakening. By that time, though, you'll be gone...
I'm excited for you and your future and I know you will make the most of it.
The one I feel bad for is your WW. She has no idea what she's done and when it hits her... oh boy....
Keep us posted, brother!
I feel bad for W - she tells me she's the happiest she's been in the 15 years we've been married, but she doesn't look all that happy. The kids don't see too much of her - when she is home, she's in her bedroom.
No, she's not happy. I don't think she could be truly happy and still be so angry at you. After all, isn't she getting what she said she wants? She may not know it, but she really gives herself away by insisting that she's happier now than all the years she was with you.
It is a strange thing to understand her level of anger, when she was the cheating spouse. If anyone should be filled with rage, it should be the betrayed spouse. However, the cheater files everything she/he does under justification, and everything the betrayed spouse does as the offender. .
Continue to walk straight with your head held high. You have become a man of honor and courage.
Sandi,
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
I was nice to her in some emails today from work, as we worked out some budget stuff for the kids and easter. I put a smiley face in the email, and was nice in my responding. She all of a sudden was back to not being angry, and actually sent 10 or so emails to me.
I'll chalk it up to her not having much to do at work as people around her watched the basketball games, and somehow convincing herself that divorcing will work - we can be nice and civil, and everything will work out for her. Maybe it will, most likely it won't - but I won't be around to talk to her about it.
One of my counselors called me to tell me she couldn't see me anymore. It was a strange conversation, but she said she had to end our sessions, and referred me to someone else. Since the WW was seeing her, maybe WW said something that she would no longer see her if I was having sessions with her as well. No biggie, I still have my addictions group, and might find a DivorceCare group to go to once we move closer to the final D date.
I was going to work out tonight, but decided to scratch that and go to bed early, and maybe work out in the morning. My morning routine has been lagging, so a tune-up is needed.
I'm living one day at a time, or more like one week at a time. Excited that I might have my own place. Lots of little things to accomplish to get there, but I'm up for a challenge.
Talk with you all soon!
Not much to update.
Wife is still hell bent on D.
Looked at a condo on Tues - would be nice to be so close to W's house, as it's only a couple blocks away. Kids would have the same bus stop!
Exercise has still been hard, but I'm settling into new job, so I'm hoping a few hours show up in the week, and I can balance better. Part of my addictions group is working on spinning the plates in my life, so that I don't focus just one plate to let the others fall. Exercise is one of those plates.
I love my wife. I have told the kids that. I still want to be married to their mom. However, mom wants something different. I am ok with that, and we both love them all very, very much.
Working on exchanging financials.
My W has been looking at boob jobs and tummy tucks on the computer - that's all I can get, as I don't snoop anymore. New clothes - still working out 6 times a week. She is always looking frazzled, and spends most nights alone in her (our old) bedroom. Some days her texts zing at me, other days she pokes out of the WW fog and talks like the old W. Most days, not.
My mind keeps coming back to MLC. Esp. if W doesn't see OM much. What happens when his D is done? 6 months from now, he's liable to just dump her. Maybe they live happily ever after 3 hours away from each other. Not my circus, not my monkeys anymore, right?
Some days I do great - full of complete detachment. Some days, I miss her and am lonely. Comes with the territory.
Playing tuba for the Easter services. Probably going to hang with some church friends on Easter day when W takes kids to her parent's place. Spiral ham and church potatoes - yum!
Keep on posting - I will!
Thank you for letting us know how things are going, I don't post much on your thread as I know so little of MLC.
I do recognise the crazy loco though of the mood swings.
One of my favourite expressions not my circus not my monkeys.
Not my trampoline either!
Had a talk on the Friday or Sat. before Easter - I got to see a little softer side of my W. I see her as just scared and afraid, and using the anger and words to keep me from getting close to her. It got as far as a hug between us, and her hitting me on the head as I played tuba for Easter - a kind of thing she used to do.
Then, she talks with/sees OM - really don't know, but she was back to being super cold and wayward the last two days, even to the point she's so upset at me that she now wants 80% custody, and I only will get them on the weekends. I have said OK to 3 different parenting plans, but a full week on/week off was a no-go for me. Too much time without seeing the kids - for both of us. Since I didn't cater to her wishes, she went off. Came unglued. I held it together, and vented to my close support network - my buddy going through the same thing, and my brother. Both let me know it's probably my W spewing to cover up the sin and lies she's trying to reconcile within the real world.
The order pulling the removal of my wife from the house stipulated her moving forward with the refi of the house. I want my own place, and trying to get a condo down the street. I'm hoping it will still be available by next month. I don't think my wife is dragging her feet, but she isn't racing, either. So, if the order is agreed to by both parties, no court date in April, and we move forward with the D.
Feeling ups and downs still. Anger and hurt today - bad day at work to top it all off. Tomorrow should be better. I pray for strength and guidance from the great Physician. I lay my sins before him, and he grants me peace.
You better stick to your guns about 50/50 custody at a minimum or your wife will be filing a motion for relocation out of state in no time and you'll find yourself fighting an uphill battle against the Wisconsin rebuttable presumption that the primary custodial parent (even if she's just the joint parent but the kids spend more nights with her) can relocate whenever they want as long as it's not completely unreasonable.
In other words....to beat her...you'd basically have to prove you are actually the better parent and it would be in the best interest of the kids to live primarily with you while mom moves out of state.
Not every state is like that. Many, like New York, rarely allow relocation petitions. The kids have to stay in the state (and within a certain mile radius) and if a parent needs to leave...then they just have to leave the kids with the residing parent and work out visitation by other means --- like summers and holidays.
Of course - become your own expert and research this. I know OM lives out of state so keep up the good fight and research ways to improve your position even if you have joint custody (because she can still file a motion to relocate she will just have a harder time winning). Research what factors the court looks at a be sure to fill those. Things like access to current schools, extended family and even church play a roll in "rooting" children within a community giving you a valid "stability" argument should the argument ever arise. Maintain good form and practices (with regards to being a great parent and holding up your end of joint custody) and she'll be advised by her attorney to not even bother trying.
Thanks GB. I always appreciate your responses. A Kindred Spirit for me. Sandi, you, Mowgli, Zues, and a couple others have been invaluable.
I'm seeing success at my new manager's job, and I've been open about what's happening with the 2 salespeople with me, as they have both gone through divorce. Haven't told them everything, but they need to know that I'm not upset at them when my WW throws a curve ball at me. The success is wonderful in my life right now. God's hand has guided me so well. What if I had left my life to Him, rather than pulling on the wheel up to now? I guess we'll always want to pull on the wheel.
Looks like the basics of the D are now set. Up for discussion are little things like paintings, pots and pans, and when I can get my name off the house, when she can refi, and when the whole shooting match will be officially over.
I expect things to get worse before they get better, as my WW starts to realize her fantasy can't come true, and the plan B is drifting off to sea. Excited to see where God takes me in my life. I know that joint custody will be tougher now than what I envisioned, but that I can be a great dad, and a rock for me kids. Gotta keep on working on my boundaries with my WW.
The big thing is to make sure you're documenting your time with the kiddos. You need to show that you are with them at least 50% of the time. document! document! document!
That's the only way you win this.
I still have the time I spend with my sons saved. I looked at it a while back and wondered how W ever thought I wasn't around enough... Just another example of rewritten history...
Protect yourself and your assets regardless of what you think WWs plans are. You have to look out for you and your kid's interests now.
We're her for you, buddy!
The big thing is to make sure you're documenting your time with the kiddos. You need to show that you are with them at least 50% of the time. document! document! document!
That's the only way you win this.
I still have the time I spend with my sons saved. I looked at it a while back and wondered how W ever thought I wasn't around enough... Just another example of rewritten history...
Protect yourself and your assets regardless of what you think WWs plans are. You have to look out for you and your kid's interests now.
We're her for you, buddy!
There are some online tools for this. Some of them are time share calendars that both parents can access to keep track of school, activities, and need-to-know info. I think if you search Parenting calendar you should find some.
Thank you Painter and Mowgli. Spent time today with the kids. More time tomorrow at church.
Got out to a social event. Took my ring off. Feels really weird. It will go back on when I get home.
I agree 100% with GB, Mow and Painter.
You actually are the better parent, more stable and not in an A. If it comes down to days and especially overnights then document. Keep and print texts and calendars.
V
Day off from work, and guess what? Work emergency, so I go in. Lots of crud to deal with there, but still is a bright spot in my life.
WW is way wayward, and D is moving forward. I've expressed that I want to move on, and want the D to progress quickly since we have so much of the details worked out. She's being very generous on her end, actually. I want equitable split, including time with the kids, and it looks like that's happening. I get to keep my 401k, she keeps hers, which is much smaller, so I do think the guilt of the EA/PA is contributing to that.
I have talked a bit with her - she has now told me I'm distant, and only answer in 'OK' or 'sounds good', very pithy comments, which is totally true. She wants a 'friendly' divorce, which I'm not giving her. I still told her I have hope for us in the future, but that I want to move on, and hope that she's making the right choice. For her, she has no plans, except to live in our house along, with the kids 50% of the time, and continue to have an EA with a man 3 hours away, who will most likely drop her from his life when his divorce is done, and he finds a woman in his city that can provide for his physical needs. I'm beginning to feel really sad for her, as she's angry at me, at our church and pastor for calling her out on the affair being wrong... her comments of 'everyone is so judgemental' make me laugh. If I didn't care about her, I wouldn't have said anything.
She also thinks I'm just wanting to move quickly in the D to get something from her, or I have ulterior motives, which I find funny. Just want to get out from under the same roof as her, as she has OM on the brain, and can't see reality for what it is.
If I was a stronger husband and man, I would have blown up the affair, and kicked her out, or moved out. I needed time to mature, to face my addiction demon, and I am. There are days I'm tested, but today I'm 158 days porn free. No masturbation, either. Let me tell you, that right there is a miracle in itself. No 'release' in probably 160 days. My body is ok with it, but c'mon, sex is fun for most people, so the urges won't go away. Probably too much info for most of you, but I have nothing to lose. If this helps someone out there, I'm all for it. I want to be an open book, and help my kids understand that they need to have BELIEFS that can override their urges and feelings, and that having willpower is a wonderful thing. A blessed thing. I believe I'm becoming a better Trumpet, and will continue to do so. I'll find someone down the road, God will put them in my life, and we'll take it from there.
Some days I'm really lonely - this isn't a walk through the tulips, folks. Today I got really upset, and my oldest D saw it and asked about it - but instead of saying 'nothing is wrong', I told her I WAS angry, and explained why I was, and that right there is the difference in me. I can explain WHAT I'm feeling, and why I'm feeling it. And after that little talk, and a big hug from her, it got a lot better. The top was off the fizzing 2 liter, so it didn't explode. Every day is a work in progress. Every morning I pray, and tell God I'm grateful for the work he is working in me, through me. Big things are on the horizon for Trumpet.
So, so proud of you man!
You've gone through so much and are taking it in stride and your willpower is truly inspiring!
You are amazing! So many would have used the fact of going through such a tough ordeal as their excuse to "escape" through their addiction.
You are definitely a stronger man! You are going to be an awesome H to some lucky lady one day.
I know you have a lot on your plate, but I hope you will stick around. There are a lot of people who could use the wisdom you've gained.
Sandi and Mowgli,
Thanks guys. I'm not feeling like I'm at 100% effort, as some days I feel the darkness, but overall I'm making it. The kids see a consistent dad. They keep asking when I'm going to buy the condo down the street, as it's the best to be very close by for them. I would love to live on the other side of town where I work, where the houses are 2/3 the price where we live now, but I have to make sacrifices for them.
Speaking of sacrifices - the wife met with her lawyer today, and *poof*, there goes half my 401k. The lawyer says it's the *only* way to split up our marital assets, since I have more in mine. I'll get marital support from the W, though, as she's making much better money than me now. Note - unresolved issues from her upbringing, a disease that shook her and left her overweight and without a thyroid, kids growing up, and a newfound independence due to having a great job - all made an impact into the WW's MLC.
After getting really upset and angry, I calmed down at work, and about an hour later I kept telling myself 'It's only money - I'll make more'. I haven't gotten upset again tonight, so I think I'm over it. I might be able to get the money back, if I forego the marital support... something to pose to my attorney to see if it's possible. With D7 quite a ways away from college, the total amount of support would equal about what she's pulling out of my 401k...
I've realized that my stress levels are rising again, due to my inactivity. My leg has healed, but I'm off the program. When you get angry about it, I think I've made headway into starting up again. I'm excited to see where I could land up with my weight. Wouldn't it be a hoot to see if I could get back to my pre-college or college weight? I'd need about 40 lbs more off the frame... don't know if that's possible, since I'd like more muscle than before.
Sandi, I plan on staying on the board for a while. It's really comforting to know I'm not the only one out there, that what I'm going through is common, or at least common enough to have shared experience, like my addictions group. I'll probably get a little more pointed, like TxHubby or Georgia Bulldog, since I think they do a nice job of laying thoughts out in a pithy fashion, just like you. You might not all agree all the time, as well as Zeus and others, but the brain power here always amazes me.
Us nice guys get taken advantage of - part of GAL'ing for us is to add a few layers of the hard candy shell on top of the gooey nougat center of our hearts. Once you can establish boundaries, stick to them, let hurtful comments fly by you without reacting, focus on maintaining healthy eating habits, exercise, and intimate relationships with both same and opposite sexes, I think you're set for a huge cornucopia of blessings to be poured out from above.
It sounds like you are doing so well!
I hope you have a L of your own? If you both have retirement accounts, they should both be split for what you put into it during the M.
But in my state, with proof of an A, H would not have gotten half of mine if I had one.
The life of Trumpet - let's see if I can sum things up...
Wife is still on D train.
I am also. She has continued to live in what I can describe as a MLC. Still working out 6 days/week. Angry at me most of the time. Has gotten a few new clothes, but nothing racy or skimpy.. more age appropriate, but with the extreme weight loss, she is down to a size where she could show off her figure, but doesn't. Hides her phone, paperwork, and other important docs. Taking birth control pills - neither of us were 'fixed', but without sex, we didn't ever have anything to worry about. I imagine she's making sure her episodes with OM don't lead to unintended consequences. I don't know if she's met up with OM, since he's in Chicago, but it's possible they have. I could look at the detailed billing of the phone, but I haven't - my WW gave me the top page, but won't let me see the rest. I can see it online, but choose to not do so. I'll find thousands of texts and hundreds of calls to OM.
Looking hardcore for a condo or house. Need at least 3 bedrooms. Timing is bad, as my location is hot for housing. I'll find something, but it needs to be soon. Looking at a house today.
D could be final by May 25th. WW is refi-ing the house, and will close on May 26th. June 1st would be nice to have a place.
Kids are ok, but it's a bit of a battle with D14 - she's upset, and doesn't want to pick a side. S12 and D7 are just along for the ride, but I do take the kids to church, and talk to them about the sitch.
I continue to find success in my new manager's job. So busy at work I get to forget about the problems at home, which is actually a great blessing. I haven't gotten to work out as much anymore, but the leg is healed, and I get to run 1-2 times a week now, and need to up it to 4-5 times. Still want to run a couple 5ks.
My WW has posted to facebook about me and us, lots of spew. Those at church are very concerned for her, and pastor is working on church discipline with her, since she will not let go of OM, is comitting the act of adultery, and needs to stop. Might come to her finding another church. We attend separately currently.
Other than that, my 2 hours with IC every week help a lot.
Trumpet thank you for your continued posts. Your story, wisdom, and strength throughout your sitch has been an inspiration for me. I have a very similar story: my addiction, her A and now we're on the D train. Stay strong brother, it's clear your on a solid path to becoming an amazing person and will surely one day meet the person who really deserves you.