Thank you for all of the support and wise words from my last thread. I want to respond to each of you individually, JellyB, Mutatio, Calibri, Mahhhty, becky, Mona, but I barely slept last night and I am just making it through today. I truly appreciate all of your words, you are all correct, you are helping me so much. But right now, I am so tired that my words are not coming.
I am also hurting so badly, just feel like I am going to collapse from stress. And I do know I need to detach. Lack of sleep is making this hard.
I know what I need to do. Detach, find a job, surround myself with positive GAL. I know all this, I have been doing this, I will do better. I will, these are not just words, I promise each and every one of you who has been giving me your shoulder to cry on that I will get through this and I will do better.
But last night I did not sleep, and today I just need to cry. And curl up under a blanket. I just need to be sad and heart broken today.
Tomorrow I have a really fun party to attend with my women's group. Friday is IC and then a fun weekend with my kids. H is going to be out of town. I am taking my kids to the movies, finishing decorating, taking our Christmas pics, and taking the kids Christmas shopping. Next week is packed with activities. My S9 is home with me (he had an eye appointment and his eyes are so dilated I didn't send him back to school.) So I am making him cookies and letting him watch tv all afternoon.
Previous thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2627182#Post2627182
But last night I did not sleep, and today I just need to cry. And curl up under a blanket. I just need to be sad and heart broken today.
(((pho))) I'm so sorry you're hurting so badly.
Sometimes a cry is the very best thing you can do. Let go of the pain. Own your feelings. Only then will you be able to breathe in the promise of a new day.
On a lighter note, what kind of cookies are you making? Save one for me to have before I go to bed, OK? :p
SciDad, I tried to have a cry but it wouldn't come out! And the cookies I invented last year and apparently forgot to write down the recipe and my memory isn't that great so they are not nearly as good as they were. Last year I had this white chocolate cranberry cookie from Starbucks that was "ok" but I knew I could do better, so I went home and perfected it and turned it into an almond shortbread based cookie loaded with cranberries, white chocolate and sliced almonds. It was amazing.
This batch is a crumbly mess but I am eating it with a spoon. If you come and chip my ice on an icy morning I will give you a spoonful of cookie mess!
I just spent the last 30 minutes submitting counseling receipts to our insurance company, so I feel like I at least accomplished something.
H texted me to see which weekend his parents could visit before he leaves. That was good communication vs. surprise visits. There is only one good weekend- next weekend- before he leaves. I wanted so badly to ask him to go away with me that weekend and leave the kids with the IL's but that would be pursuing. And what fun is it to go away with someone who hates me? I am a slow learner, but it is sinking in.
Maybe I will find a boyfriend and run away next weekend, LOL. That would be GAL and a 180 and detachment all in one. Maybe next year. My life will move on one way or another, we will see what 2016 will bring.
Meh, boyfriends are over rated. Start dating yourself instead. If someone happens to join you, even better.
I still want those cookies. I'm pretty sure your "bad" cookies are better than anything I've made. I'll be over with an ice scrapper tomorrow
I'm with you on the no pursuing next weekend. I actually wanted to do the same thing when I heard my in-laws were coming. Not so much now that I know things haven't changed much, but I understand where you're coming from. And honestly not pursuing may actually help him in some weird way....
Pho,
If you want to go away, go. Your life is yours. You can do as you please. His family is not your concern, he is not your concern. The more ACTION you take to make yourself happy the faster you will get to the other side of this mess.
If it makes you feel any better, I was up all night with you last night. Tossing and turning, ugh. It is like torture to me. So this morning I bought myself a silly t-shirt with Yoda on it. I dont need H to make me feel better, I know best what I like.
You know best what you like!
Pho, I too was tossing and turning with you and Mona. Less than 6 hours of interrupted sleep.
You explain your sitch so well. I feel I should be more detached at this time. (I'm very hard on myself) Yesterday I was sniffly, D16 asks if I'm ok, and I told her sometimes I just need a good cry, to which she agreed.
Not to turn this to myself, but know that it really helps me follow your road. Thanks for posting.
So sorry you are not sleeping and having such a rough time. I went through that too and I can promise you it does get better. We all find what we need in our own time, but detaching is a really good thing for your peace of mind. Hang in there and know you have prayers and support.
Hi Pho! Hope you are doing well. Been thinking about how things are going for you. Seems that we are traveling the same path and in the same boat due to our spouses' past issues.
I had a role. I was in a difficult position, and I do not believe I am to blame, but I did have a role in it. I complained too much instead of getting professional help to figure out how to deal with the problems. I knew H didn't have the skills or perspective to handle the situation well and I just kept pressuring him to do it. Until it all blew up in my face. And now I truly believe I am being made the scapegoat for all of it. I believe that I am going to lose my H because of this. H has shut me out and wants nothing to do with me.
Pho, I know this statement of yours has been talked of before but allow me to weigh in, also. It seems that talking with you is very helpful to me due to how similar our situations are.
As like you, I do not think I am to blame in my situation but I know I had a role in how things turned out, too. It seems that my W's childhood and past has so "messed her up" that she knows nothing more but to escape - and sometimes I feel that is into an almost alternate reality. Like you, I get the blame for everything. Everything. Our entire marriage was twisted to where there really were no good times. Imagine that. Her latest is that I didn't protect her. Kind of hard to do when for 10 years I never knew of most of this stuff, eh? She told me of a recent counseling session where her counselor flat out told her that she (the W) doesn't even know how she feels about things - that her mind/perception has twisted so much. But, I still get the blame. Not fun.
I have been reading a bit on "emotional IQ" as it pertains to relationships. Interesting stuff. Not saying it will help out our situations, but it may help in our understanding. Check it out, sometime. I think that it would do us both good to realize that our spouses' actions ARE a direct result of their childhood. Sometimes those walls are too difficult to climb, and yet sometimes all it takes is the smallest thing to crack those walls. The trick is finding what it is. Adult survivors of childhood abuse require far more understanding than I think we (well, me) realize.
I hope you are doing well. One foot in front of the other!
Thanks Spiff. I will read up on Emotional IQ. The conversation your W had with her IC is very close to the one my H had with his. VERY close. And H keeps saying during MC that our problems are "surreal." Uses that word frequently, and I just want to smack him. Surreal? This is our life. It is not surreal. It is normal problems that normal people can work out if they so choose. It is not an alternative reality. People can, and do, come back from worse. H's response to that was "And people don't come back from less." So it will be his choice. Or mine if I decide I cannot do this anymore.
I have been so depressed lately. I thought it was more of the "I am so rejected/heartbroken" depression, the kind all of us DB'ers know all too well and has become my constant struggle in these last 10 months. But I recently realized that its different now. I am depressed FOR him. That this man is so broken. That he seems very likely to stay stuck and that is making me sad. Yes I still feel rejected and heartbroken, those feelings are still in the mix, but little by little I am starting to just feel bad for him.
I think my next step will be determining what is in the best interests of the children. Their father is "broken". He is their father no matter what, even if I file for D and get remarried ASAP to the most wonderful man in the world, H is still their father, and will always be. So how do I make sure that they are stronger than he is, that they do not pick up his depressive and angry thought patterns? That they do not go through life feeling as though they are a victim and need to blame someone- their parents, their spouse, their child, for all of their problems? On one hand I want to model great patience, love and commitment. But on the other hand, what is really the best environment for them to grow up in? I am really thinking this upcoming "break" will give me clarity.
Oh- and another topic. I slept last night! Had the worst emotional day yesterday, and then I don't know why, but I slept last night. Not great, but better than usual. I slept and when I woke this morning the first thoughts that entered my mind were not my marital issues. I wouldn't say I was feeling happy, or peaceful, but I was feeling content. Thinking about the day, what I have going on, what the kids needed for the day. H left really early this morning, I won't see him for 4-5 days, maybe that is why I feel better? I really don't know but I will take it.
Yah pho---you slept! I just asked for some advice on OTC sleep aids, cuz the Unisom wasn't working. Plus I was at my two week max.
I have been trying to catch up on your sitch, but , man oh man!! 10 months!! I have no words as I am new here, and just starting this long journey.
I hope you find comfort in the 4-5 day reprieve. My H travels for biz a lot, and while I used to like the separation, I feel like I pay for it on reentry. I feel like I am starting at square one again--the being cold and distant, and me having to DB like crazy.
Mel, I just read your thread and posted over there. I hope you get some sleep tonight!
When H is traveling it is a good emotional break for me. He called me today on his way to the airport and we talked for 22 minutes! It was maybe the most "normal" conversation we've had since BD. I am trying not to read into it, but calls from H are very rare, pre-BD he'd call me a few times per day, now I'd say once a week or so usually for 3 or 4 minutes for logistics, this was an actual "calling just to say hi" so that kind of blew me away. Trying not to let it get me too hopeful.
I had a Christmas party with my women's group this morning, then this afternoon took my boys out shopping for bobbleheads (really) and out for pizza. Life is good.
Last night I started an online class to become re-certified in my former career so maybe that will give me an edge on a job. This subject matter is boring beyond belief. Hmmm.....maybe that is why I slept last night- I did about 20 minutes of the course before bed. I am also thinking that if my job search does not go well- I will give it 3-4 months or so, but if I don't find anything that fits my needs (has to be flexible because I am basically a single parent) maybe I should try something completely new and just re-invent myself. I have a couple of ideas on that front, but really no energy or motivation right now.
I am going to stick with plan A for now, it is what I know and I did well with it many years ago, but I am open to possibilities. Hmmmm.....just like with H. If I can't make the "old" work, I am open to a new possibility.
Hi, Pho! I am so glad to hear that you are sleeping again! Now if some of that could spill over here.
I swear it seems as if your H and my W are cut from the same cloth. We had our final MC before she leaves last night and she was rehashing little things. Little things?!?!?! I was like, c'mon. It seems as if mine is just grasping at little things to justify whatever. She still can't see her twisting stuff. Let me use this example from last night - she claimed that she took a risk in her career to leave a base early due to me being unhappy...nevermind the fact that we had a long discussion about how the no-win situation she was put in was negatively affecting fitreps so we agreed that her taking an immediate need position was what was best for the career. When I confronted her in the session with our discussion from back then, the MC noted the look of recognition on her face and called her on it. You should have seen the squirming.
I completely understand the feeling of being depressed for your H. I am the same for my W. My W is really starting to go deeper and deeper and I don't know how she will pull out.
I think my next step will be determining what is in the best interests of the children. Their father is "broken". He is their father no matter what, even if I file for D and get remarried ASAP to the most wonderful man in the world, H is still their father, and will always be. So how do I make sure that they are stronger than he is, that they do not pick up his depressive and angry thought patterns? That they do not go through life feeling as though they are a victim and need to blame someone- their parents, their spouse, their child, for all of their problems? On one hand I want to model great patience, love and commitment. But on the other hand, what is really the best environment for them to grow up in? I am really thinking this upcoming "break" will give me clarity.
This is a very difficult thing to think about, let alone do. I think that the thing we both must realize is that, yes, our spouses are broken. No matter what we do, we can't fix them - that is a road they must travel on their own. As their parent, they will (unless they choose not to) always - and should be - be part of the children's lives. The key is how we model our behavior. We can only do what we can and that is be the best parent we can and be a strong and loving and supportive person for them. That's all we can do. Even if one does remarry the best person in the world, they will still be part of the H/W's world, as it should be. And, unfortunately, they may pick up on their behaviors. Our hope is that they don't. That isn't in our hands. We do the best we can and give the children the love and support they so desperately need. They will see and follow.
I agree, the break will do you wonders. At least yours is coming back. Mine isn't permanently for two years, and then she may very well file before then. Ugh.
Take feeling better any way you can get it! Keep your chin up!
Hi Pho!
Please take some of the time your H is traveling for yourself. Nothing big. I'm not sure if you're into nature or alonce time, but maybe just doing nothing. If it's warm by you maybe go for a walk by yourself and listen to the birds?
When I hurt the most sometimes sitting by myself and disconnecting from the world helps me mentally reset and prepare for whatever battles lie ahead. The hard part is to make this kind of meditation work you need to not think about any of your problems for a few minutes. It's easier said than done...
SciDad, thank you! My hobby is photography and my children won't pose for me anymore, so I sometimes go on long hikes and photograph birds and nature. I haven't done it since the summer, but its good for me, very peaceful and then there is the thrill of getting a great photo. There is a place near me where the tundra swans from Canada come to overwinter, and now I am thinking I should go see if they have arrived yet for the season.
Your an artist, that's great. It's therapeutic, please do more of it.
Thanks, Mutatio. I told you about my "happy place", the hike near you? I have spent many hours standing in the middle of the river there waiting for a blue heron to fly overhead for the perfect photo. I never got it right though, usually my children distract me and scare away the birds! One of these days I will get the perfect shot.
I should really work on my photography, since BD I have done very little. My skills are getting rusty.
I should really work on my photography, since BD I have done very little. My skills are getting rusty.
My job here is done
<<<Drops the Microphone and walks away>>>
But seriously, I think a little GAL would be in order right now, don't you?
I have given up photography with all this craziness and I miss it. my boys are probably happy that they no longer have to pose for me. Time to think about us girl and get back to what makes us smile.
It would be awesome if you could post some of your pictures on here!
They aren't that good! I am an amateur! But I have fun with it.
isittoolate! That is an amazing shot! Wow, blows away any of my pictures! I am inspired, going to go out next week for a photo field trip.
My photos look like a kindergartener took them compared to yours!
NB it aint my photo and the guy took 720,000 photos to get the perfect one !
LOL, I though it was yours! I was so impressed!
Hi, I'm glad this week is behind me. I allowed history to effect the present moment. Anyway, we really are running in parallel. Your husband is away and my wife leaves tomorrow for a business trip. I will miss her but feel like a weight been lifted off me when she's gone. Do you feel anything like that?
I google mapped the gorge you recommended, it's a 30 minute ride. You'll like this, from 2006 to 2013 I worked 9 miles from there, in Long Valley. I will go after New Years, I like cold sunny morning hikes. I've wanted to go hiking for a while but my mind over powered my heart. 2016 will be a better year.
I wanted to respond to your comments about my anger. I carry some baggage in regards to anger as you know. I thought I had it under control but never felt I tested my coping process thoroughly. Yesterday I had that spontaneous test and unconsciously used my new coping skills and moved through the anger to a emotionally balanced state. Like booze, I have had enough anger in my past for a life time. I except it when it arises like yesterday but now move through it much quicker and much less often. Do you believe anger has therapeutic benefits?
You asked "How do you feel most days? Are you depressed? Are you content? Somewhere in between? I worry that you are very hard on yourself, and living in this situation for another 2 years is really going to wear on you. I am not encouraging you to give up, just trying to get a feel for your general well being."
I am slightly down each day. Quite honesty I am to hard on myself. I can't forgive myself. It's a heavy weight on my heart. I carry it around with me all the time and nobody knows its there. The weight pushes out everything else so there is an emptiness to me. I did this. I destroyed my marriage by not being good enough. That's what I feel like everyday.
I must do this for the next 2 years. This is what my son needs, today he was begging his mother not to work so much. My son is much closer to my wife then he is to me. I don't think I will ever have as close a relationship with him as he with his mother. That's okay, I am happy to support him and help him when I can. It doesn't have to be about me.
I came by to say hi and I hijacked your thread. Please forgive me.
Hi, I copied and pasted parts of my last post to my new thread. I did not want your thread to be consumed by my issues. I am glad I posted what I did because it was an aha moment for me. I look forward to your wisdom on the new thread.
How is the incorporeal part of pho ?
Has the absence had some positive effects?
Any new insights about your upcoming 6 months of emotional exploration?
Thank you for posting. I was posting on your thread and then saw this, so we are in parallel today. I feel a weight off my shoulders while my H is traveling too. Although he has been staying in touch more than usual during this trip, calling and texting and really making an effort. Just a couple of months ago I would have been so excited about that, now I am seeing that I have made some progress with detachment. I am happy that he is reaching out, but it is not affecting my mood as much as it would have back then.
I used to go to the Long Valley Brew Pub frequently, it was one of my favorite places before we moved away. My cousins live there now (not at the pub!) and it is such a pretty place. I was there this summer actually. If you do go hiking, my boys always find arrow heads and cool rocks along the banks of the river there, your son might be a little old for that but it is fun to look.
As far as anger, I am learning to control mine as well. I find that when I control it, it can be therapeutic, when not controlled it just spirals out of control and makes me feel worse. Pre BD and in the months afterwards, anger used to make me feel victimized and panicky and desperate, now in the last couple of months as I have learned to manage my emotions, I feel shorter bursts of anger which leave me feeling like I have more clarity on the situation if that makes sense? I haven't thought of it before, I am glad you asked, because it has changed. It is helping me detach. I have stopped digging the husband sized hole in my yard, and stopped looking for sharp objects to throw at him, so that is progress at least. Now I feel anger and then no need to act on it.
Now that I am thinking about it, the gorge would be a great place to hide a body. LOL. You know in all the years I lived there, I think H only went hiking with me at the gorge once? And that was my happy place, I would go maybe once a week and asked him at least a hundred times.
Do your cousins have children and what ages are they?. There is a good reason for this question and if you think about it, it will come to you.
I have been so depressed lately. I thought it was more of the "I am so rejected/heartbroken" depression, the kind all of us DB'ers know all too well and has become my constant struggle in these last 10 months. But I recently realized that its different now. I am depressed FOR him. That this man is so broken. That he seems very likely to stay stuck and that is making me sad. Yes I still feel rejected and heartbroken, those feelings are still in the mix, but little by little I am starting to just feel bad for him.
I think my next step will be determining what is in the best interests of the children. Their father is "broken". He is their father no matter what, even if I file for D and get remarried ASAP to the most wonderful man in the world, H is still their father, and will always be. So how do I make sure that they are stronger than he is, that they do not pick up his depressive and angry thought patterns? That they do not go through life feeling as though they are a victim and need to blame someone- their parents, their spouse, their child, for all of their problems? On one hand I want to model great patience, love and commitment. But on the other hand, what is really the best environment for them to grow up in? I am really thinking this upcoming "break" will give me clarity.
Hey Pho. I haven't had much to say but wanted to let you know I'm following too.
Lately I'm not sure if I'm feeling pessimistic, or if I'm just accepting reality and that it doesn't match the idealistic way I've always felt the world ought to be.
Idealistic says that there is a way people should be, and since H is depressed and angry that he is broken right now. Realistic/pessimistic says that he is just a regular guy dealing with a ton of pain and confusion at the loss of his relationship. Idealistic says he should be able to handle this better by going on forums and getting counseling, realistic/pessimistic says that this is how people in this world operate. Remember, you stepped up your game motivated by the fear of the loss of your M, he doesn't have that fear and may not be as motivated to be at his best right now.
Idealistic says that if you DB well you'll either recover your M or improve yourself and your ability to be a better partner and find a better partner and you'll have the M you want. Realistic/pessimistic says that WAH is actually a good guy, and that this is just how guys act and relationships work when things get hard, and that the vast majority these days fail.
This has been hard for me to stay balanced on. Part of the reason I was so depressed for so long was that the world fell so short of my ideals...but I've learned that positive ideals that generate nothing but negativity aren't really a good thing. And that accepting a less sugary reality can be a positive if it allows us to be appreciative of the good that does exist, even in a world that is imperfect. Of course I am dealing with pain as well and can easily let the scales swing to pessimism. For me the key is to not be conclusive about anything, to just realize I'm going through a lot, my vision is fogged just as much as a WAS's, and that I need to hold my grip on how I view the world lightly. Open minded. Less judgmental (ok, I've struggled with this one).
XW (first time I've used that, I think my D was final yesterday!) is drinking heavily, smoking cigarettes and pot, having guys spend the night while my kids wonder who's in the house with them, and frankly has shown them that when the going gets rough just tear apart a family and selfishly do what makes you happy. Horrible examples. After reading this board for 18 months I think less harshly of her, and I just realize this is how the world works. We can't change the world, we can just change our part of the world. We get to show the children that's not how OUR part of the world works. And that we get a choice on our role. And that choice is important.
WAH will be ok, he'll suffer and find his way through the way all people do. Focus on making your road an inspiration to your children and all of us. Thanks Pho.
Thank you Zues. I am thinking about what you are saying. I actually have a lot of empathy for my H, more than is probably healthy for me. I am not in an "abusive" situation now - and I hate to use that word because I don't think H is an abuser, but for 4 months he did abuse me while he was spewing and drinking heavily. I "let" him abuse me and I "let" this happen in a home with my children, because I felt so bad for him. Sometimes now I think about the men who "snap" and kill their families. I never felt physically threatened by my H (well except for a few times when he blocked my exit and screamed in my face but I never thought he'd hit me and he never did) , but he was completely off the wall crazy for months and I stayed in his path, and let my children be in his path. There were nights he was so drunk that he was literally falling down, screaming FU at me and saying all sorts of terrible things that he has absolutely no recollection of.
I think my H is a good man who broke down. I think he is slowly healing, and I think he is pretty close now to where he was when he broke down. So after an entire year of therapy, he is now back to square one. Its up to him if he continues healing or if he stalls out at this point. Which means I don't want to be near him when things get rough again- and with 3 kids, things will get rough again. There are going to be bumps in the road.
I have been perceiving this entire ordeal as "I am modeling compassion, love and patience and commitment" for my children. And I still do perceive it that way. But at what cost? I am hoping the 6 month break will bring clarity to the situation. I am hoping he will use that time to heal and I will use that time to move forward in my own life in a way that is beneficial to my children and myself.
I am slow Mutatio, they have a 3 year old. I can't think of a reason. Did you teach there?
Yes, are you having a enjoyable Saturday night?
Yes, I am a little bored, watching videos on youtube.
I am having a very good "detached" day. Can't complain. Bored is good! Toggling back and forth between here, youtube, FB, and playing songs for my boys.
Hah, I here and watching a movie about a guy dating his operating system and surfing the web. The kids are doing their own thing but the dog chose me. Thanks for the support this week.
Thank you for your support Mutatio. My autocorrect always wants to call you mutation, I apologize if it ever gets by me.
It's okay, it has happened a few times with different people. I always thought it was the computers doing it. Has your husbands trip had any positive effects for you and your kids?
M, I don't know about the kids but I am feeling a nice detached relaxed feeling. Also maybe its not detachment because H has been texting me a lot, more than usual, so maybe its a false detachment and more of a reassurance because he is staying in touch. Sometimes I hate DB because it makes me think too much.
But I am feeling good.
How about you? How long is your W's trip? My H will be back late tomorrow night. I will not wait up for him.
Although I feel good, I cannot fall asleep. So maybe my brain is still working things out and I am not as relaxed as I thought. I need sleep!
My wife's plane lands around 11 pm Tuesday night. Watching her kiss and hug my kids good bye and say "goodbye" to me as she walks down the stairs with her back to me hurt. She wouldn't even look at me. That left me down for most of the day. I hung out with my daughter but I was not at my best. I okay now but down about my marriage.
How do you fill the emotional void left by the your husband while he is struggling with his issues?
Pho,
I am just over here reading your thread and I realize that although the situations are different our H's struggle with mental illness and the aftermath is something we have in common. H has a team of female IC that seem hell bent against me. I also want him to get better but at this point it seems that he has given it up and the only option is divorce. I have lived for the past year and a half out of riffle bag because I never knew where it was safe for me to stay. I get mail at three different addresses because I have been running in between them dodging his mood swings. I spent most of the year 2014 on the road for my job, voluntarily, so that I wouldn't have to bear the brunt of his wrath. I finally found a place of my own just two months ago. I am trying to recover there. Living with a mentally ill partner is hell. You are constantly to blame for everything. It is hell.
Hello, Pho! Back on deck and catching up. Has H left yet? I think it's going to be a catalyst to change. We'll just have to see which kind.
LadyBir, I'm so sorry about your experiences with a mentally ill spouse. I suffer from Major Depressive Disorder. I know it can be hell for my family members. I've worked really hard on learning to manage it because of them, and I've made huge strides. I actually have several conditions that make the depression worse. Anything that creates pain makes me crankier than normal...maybe because I've got so much of it.
I think a positive difference for families living with mentally-ill family members is managed two-fold. One: learning all you can about the disorder. Two: The person with the disorder works consistently to manage their own illness. Learning creates understanding and patience, while managing the illness creates good habits and discipline.
I never thought I would find myself being a proponent of "troubled" people. Recent events have really deepened my compassion and understanding. We broken people still make great spouses! But....we have to be active in the managing of it. I find it ironic I'm here now after H dumped me for OW. There were times he could have left me because I was so difficult...but that time is not now. I guess he held a grudge?
Mutatio, I did get a hug good bye but it was 4 am. But most days when he comes in or leaves, the kids get a nice hug and an I love you, I might get a very brief hug and a mumbled greeting, but the dog gets kissed on the mouth, big cuddles, picked up and carried around like a baby, and then I am left feeling jealous of the dog. Also if we are sitting watching tv he will not touch me, occasionally will put his arm around me but up on the back of the sofa, not really touching me. But the dog will be on his lap or on his feet, getting pet the entire time. Very frustrating.
I am not filling the emotional void very well. I have a lot of friends- all female friends- and they are awesome to me and help me so much. But I am dying for male companionship. And then that makes me feel so pathetic. Because its not like I could act on it even if I had the opportunity. I have been drinking too much wine, I notice that when H is not home I barely drink at all. I am on this forum all of the time.
Ancaire, he is leaving in January. I am relieved and anxious at the same time. Having some physical symptoms from the last 10 months of stress and I am exhausted all the time. I need to get back to the basics with self care, since Halloween my nutrition has gone down the drain and since Thanksgiving I haven't been exercising. Need to get back into better habits.
I am so glad you are back!
Just a head's up for my friends. I am going to change my name when this thread is up and let my threads just get buried. I feel like I have been too identifiable. I did this once before and then went on to post even more identifiable info, but this time I am going to do better. I will log on with a new account, similar name so you will know me, but my old postings will be buried and I will be more discrete with info in my new account. Anyone new won't connect me with the old postings, and if H has already "found " me here its too late anyway.
I can't seem to give up this forum because you are my best friends right now, but I need to protect myself! My lack of discretion has been bothering me for awhile now. Its a catch 22- this is the only place I feel like I can really get the support I need, yet there is always the chance that I can be discovered. If I am discovered with my new account so be it, I am in a better place now and won't be saying much that would upset things at this point anyway.
Here is a weird question. My MC popped up on FaceBook under "people you may know." As far as I can tell we have no friends in common. How did he get there? Is it possible he searched me? How does FB come up with these suggestions? Do they pull from my email?
Hi Pho, mine pulls from my mobile number.
Jelly, that is probably it then. Kind of creepy if you think about it.
It freaks you out when a guy asks for your number and you give it and his pic suddenly appears on your FB page, saying "people you may know". But yes personal and professional lives crossing is odd particularly in your circumstance with MC, very odd.
What's even worse is when you google your H's ow out of curiosity and now her picture and name keep popping up in random places. Also the restaurant that was "their" spot- googled that one 9 months ago when I found the receipts, and I think it might have finally stopped popping up in ads in the last month or so. Makes me want to puke.
Yes googling other woman, BAD, BAD, BAD idea in general!
Definitive proof FB was invented by the devil. Since my post BD paranoia has contributed to impossible standards for future partners and eliminated 100% of the dating pool anyway, no harm in adding more, like no FB or social media.
Thanks for the heads up Pho. Make sure you drop me a strong hint in your next life. For being smart I'm really dense.
It will be a very strong hint Zues. Like 2.0. Nobody will be fooled. It will make me happy if the old stuff I posted gets buried in the archives, anything new I post will be centered more on myself and not on H or the IL's.
Funny that you are eliminating 100% of the dating pool, I am feeling the opposite and checking out every male that crosses my path.
Pho,
You asked me on another thread if I could look your situation over and on Friday I flew through some of your old threads and came up with some thoughts for you that I hoped to get a chance to post.
First I want to say your marriage counselor was horrible for telling you giving your husband an ultimatum was a horrible mistake. Your counselor should have been going after your husband for the same issue instead of wasting everyones time trying to "counsel" an active wayward. If you still have anything to do with that counselor, you should stop. Especially after what I'm going to tell you below.
I saw you post on Jpeg's thread that your husband still works with OW and since you don't snoop you have no idea if the affair continues or not.
This is unacceptable.
Step one to recovery is: "NEVER see or speak to the other person again" or "No Contact for Life".
Even if they did officially end the affair, just being in the same office and looking at each other is too much contact. Your husband can get on with committing to his marriage and rebuilding his marriage while his back up paramour remains on the scene. Either he is still giving her puppy eyes or she is still giving him puppy eyes (and maybe more in the office broom closet from time to time).
It's also completely unfair and impossible for a betrayed spouse to emotionally accept and be expected to endure their supposedly former wayward spouse still going to work daily and being even remotely in the presence of the OP.
THIS is why marriage counseling is an abysmal failure. Your counselor should have been demanding this from day one. It's like these guys think they can plant the idea from within the wayward and it's just an encroachment upon the patient/client relationship to actually tell them what to do. It's not. It's why marital coaching has far more success recovering marriages than "counselors" who are scared to give directions.
It's your prerogative to change you mind. Just like I told JPEG, when your husband moves out in January you end all contact with him only your demand also includes him quitting that job. You can't recover your marriage with a third party still in it, no matter how remotely.
I also think you've probably taking the "no snooping" thing a bit far. Betrayed spouses tend to fixate on snooping and wasting way too much emotional energy monitoring their wayward spouses after they bust them. Thus, it's a good recommendation to tell them to stop because once you know what's going on - knowing more isn't worth it. It sounds like you really don't know what's for sure going on and you've never really have. Waywards don't often tell the truth so it's FARRR easier to carefully and temporarily get the truth than not. It's a difficult balancing act but I feel that sometimes recoveries get hung up, for example, when the betrayed wife still thinks it was an emotional affair when all along it was a physical affair. The wayward husband may even try to recover the marriage all the while not admitting the truth (to save face and to protect the OW) and the LIE sits there indefinitely as a complete barrier to recovery. The point being - Don't Snoop Too Much - But snoop enough so that your on the same knowledge playing field with your "former" or "not yet former" wayward spouse.
I won't suggest how to do that since you are worried about privacy on your threat but looking at emails and text messages isn't a good source with long term affair relationships that have been somewhat busted and gone underground.
Another tip - I use different web browsers for different activities. If you search OW or do anything related to snooping or even posting here, do it in a secondary browser. You can flip between Chrome, Safari or Mozilla and then someday, never go back to that browser. If someone snoops your computer you also don't have to worry about your primary browser and the history therein - you just make sure to clear things if and only if you go into the secondary browser.
Pho, Your info concerns are getting me nervous.
Should I be concerned for myself?
What are your fears?
Aw man. I know OWs name too, but so far I have managed to not google it. I know it will only make me feel worse.
Pho, I check out every single man I see on the street. It's quite pathetic. I guess I want to see if there's another man out there that I could see myself with. So far the only even slightly interesting ones are married, ugh.
Thank you GB. I wish I had taken your approach early on, when the EA was first discovered. I feel like the biggest threat to our marriage is not the EA at this point though, it is his allegiance with his parents against me.
I agree with you about our MC. H claims the MC told him (I didn't hear this but they did have a private session) that this was the first time in 30 years that he did not tell a client to end his EA immediately. That his EA was "unique" and more of a "therapeutic relationship." I don't believe it for a second. I believe that H manipulated the MC and lied, which is probably why the MC had a softer view on the EA. Also was threatening suicide at the time, so that probably didn't help.
As far as snooping. I don't know how to snoop. H is leaving to work out of state in a few weeks, but could be talking to ow on the internal work IM very easily. I would have no way of knowing. If they are still seeing each other it is very underground, and limited to work hours, or to when he is traveling. Which I know sounds naive of me, but I do think that it is over. But could still be "simmering", I would lean towards that option. H leaves his laptop and phone out now, but seems to delete everything as soon as it comes in.
I have my own laptop and he has no interest in what I am searching or doing on here. He doesn't have my password. Because he never asked. I haven't snooped or googled ow's name in months. I do not want to put my energy there.
My IL's have joined H in an all out war against me, which has seemed to have settled down quite a bit. However there has been no remorse, no apology, no acknowledgement from H that this was wrong. He thinks that I have victimized his parents for all of these years. They are on board with that theory 100%. They have rehashed every argument or disagreement we have had in the past 20 years, and for months post BD H would get drunk and scream at me and rehash the argument from his parents "side." Claimed that I lied and his mother was "right about everything". I have been trying to conduct myself in a positive and loving way. I say nothing negative, I am positive, or mostly neutral as positivity is hard to come by in this situation, I do not complain, remain pleasant and polite in all interactions with them. Until September they continued to spew with H about me behind my back. In September after a particularly bad incident I took off my ring and told H that he needed to stop speaking about me with the IL's or leave. I told him it was abusive. He agreed to stop. I believe he did. But there has been no forward momentum since then. But a lot less visible anger on H's part, and he has been tentatively trying to initiate conversation more. Actually, this is when he put in for the travel job, that week. I took off my ring and told him to consider moving out, that his anger was unhealthy for me and the children and that his parents were fueling it. He put in for the job at that time, seemed to cool off quite a bit since then, but then the job came through.
So how do I proceed from here about his parents? Bottom line what I want is for him to stop all behaviors that could be further damaging the marriage- the affair, the tearing me apart with his parents and also I should add telling them EVERY thing, every thing that goes on in counseling, etc. Our marriage is not between just me and H, it also potentially still includes OW (my guess is maybe as a fantasy or background figure at this point, but she is visible to him) and definitely includes MIL and FIL. I want everyone out. How do I ask for that? How do I know if he respects these boundaries while he is gone, he could be talking to OW and the IL's all night long every night on conference calls on speaker phone while he is gone, ranting and raving about me. So how do I ask for this and how do I know if it is being respected?
If everyone is "out" of our marriage and it is between him and I, I truly believe we can repair it, and if not, then at least I know it was an honest effort. I would not limit the IL's interactions with the kids, or even with H, but I do not want to be the target for spew and I do not want my flaws- perceived or real- to be discussed and hashed out repeatedly. Whenever we see them, I feel like they "debrief" about me afterwards and then H gives me the rundown on all the ways I screwed up (had an unpleasant look on my face, comforted my son when the IL's thought it was inappropriate, etc.)
I should also say that when BD happened, MIL told me "now I can finally get the family that I deserve." A very small comment and a drop in the bucket compared to what I have heard or been confronted with since BD, but still, IMO very telling of the mindset I am up against, and H is completely on her side.
So here is the thing. Things have been slowly getting better. But very slowly and its been 10 months. I don't expect H to heal on my time table. But then, this is my life too.
Pho, Your info concerns are getting me nervous.
Should I be concerned for myself?
What are your fears?
Mutatio, my MIL knows no boundaries. Years ago, I was on a forum for people with in law issues. It was a good source of support for me, and anonymous like this forum. I told H about it. I was on there for years, maybe 3 years as a regular. I finally broke away because they changed their format and I decided it was time for a break. Anyway, during one of our MC sessions H brought up some things about that forum. It was obvious that he had been reading my posts- and yes, I knew he was aware of the forum but still, I felt violated- and also based on what he said he was using the information against me, pretty sure he had either shared it with the IL's at the time, or was sharing his recollection of my postings with them now. (now, as in post-BD, months ago though.) He was highly critical of my postings, accused me of lying about his mother, and so on. Also, I should add, before that forum, I was on a different one with my first name and my MIL "found" me, so I found a new forum with an "undercover" name and thought I could trust H.
I have not told H about this forum. Honestly, he has shown zero interest in my activities, I think I could practically bring a guy home and sit on his lap in front of H these days and he probably wouldn't even notice. But in the last few weeks he seems a little more interested in what I am up to. He mentioned another website the other day, asked what it was about. It was actually a job search website. I do not leave this website up if I walk away, I do not think he found it, but I am on here a lot and it is possible he has seen me on this site. Just from walking by, etc. I think its a matter of time before his curiosity kicks in, or he could ask his mom to check it out for me.
I post a lot. I could be identified easily. I don't mind being identified and "outed" if I am asking for support, or talking about my feelings, my GAL, etc, but I have said a lot of personal info about H and his parents and if he sees it I am pretty sure it will be an all out war. I thought of this months ago, but my need for support outweighed my need for discretion. Now I am thinking H is going away. He might have more time on his hands, might be working through issues, might be curious. If he reads just a few of my posts he'd figure out it was me.
I don't think you'd have to worry Mutatio. You haven't said anything that your w would hold against you. Actually, if she read your posts it might help your situation, if she could see you for the person who the rest of us see.
But my H is still unstable and his parents are very much unstable. And I have revealed a lot. I don't regret it, but it is time to start fresh.
Gmum, not only will it make you feel worse but then your computer will remember her and keep popping up her name every time you refresh your screen. She will haunt you.
Yeah, not worth it.
Back to you: I still don't understand why your in laws have this contorted view of you - why are you their scape goat? Whenever I read your posts my jaw just drops.
Hide a voice activated digital voice recorder using velcro and stick it under the front seat of his car.
Pay cash for the device so no one can ever prove you bought it thus enable to deny you did it if it's found.
Practice with the device so you are adapt at using it and placing it but don't leave your own voice of the device in case it's ever found. No proof it was ever in your possession.
You can buy it, get a cash receipt and then, as long as it's not found by someone else, return it in 30 or 60 days whatever the return policy is.
Most people feel very secure discussing their affair and/or marital/divorce strategies in their car. It's the best place to snoop and the most predictive information and if you do it once for a couple days it's not an obsessive compulsion....unlike spying on something like a cell phone bill usage report where you sit there hitting refresh every 20 seconds for 9 hours straight.
Most likely your husband wants to cake eat and keep cake eating so I'd anticipate he is still in a relationship with OW to some extent. Maybe not...but, you need to KNOW the truth about your life...not just guess or hope. Marriage recovery is NOT rebuilt upon trust - it is rebuilt upon TRUTH (and if you don't know the truth, you get it yourself).
As far as his parents....read some Cloud and Townsend about Boundaries. It sounds like you don't have too much of an issue turning the other cheek so you can handle them is small doses but I don't think you should ever be with them alone (without your husband) and certainly shouldn't spend the night there. A man should leave his parents and cleave to his wife. So you don't HAVE TO be in any relationship with them whatsoever. They are not friends and supporters of your marriage and they are enablers of their son's behavior. If they live nearby - MOOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEEE AWAY.
I don't think you need to require your husband to never see or speak to them again. He is to respect his parents. HOWEVER, if they continue to disrespect his wife and bad mouth you he should choose you over them and cut them off but that wouldn't be your issue or your decision since you will remain out of their lives completely. Chances are you might actually create a small peace this way because like Tweety needed Sylvester and Bugs Bunny needed Yosemite Sam, his mother needs you to justify her anger and gather the forces (her husband and son) against you. Removing yourself from the relationship means they can only complain about you a little bit longer before the contrast between their continuing anger/misery to your joy and happiness become wholly apparent to every one and your husband would rather be with you than them. Sociopath's love to accuse others of being the real threat and then taking of the role of the savior. They seem to be demanding you play the role of the black sheep of the family and, if and when, you simply walk away and deny taking on that role, they will rage with anger and victimhood but you'll be far away at a safe distance. They are not entitled to a relationship with you. You matter.
I've got a weird one to add about OW and Facebook. I deleted my Facebook account months ago. My H had blocked me, because I kept referencing information I found on his page, and he finally figured out how I was getting information.
This behavior was unhealthy for me. The constant checking on H and his group of thugs. I just quit Facebook for the time being. It's certainly helped with my peace of mind.
However, my daughter contacted me a month ago saying that the OW was now openly on H's page. She was posting about things they were doing together. My daughter sent me screen shots of the account.
My first reaction was absolute shock. My H is no troll, but no way should a woman as good looking and young as that be interested in a middle-aged, pot-bellied, married father of five. I wondered what was wrong with her.
Then, as I kept getting forwarded more screen shots, I noticed the language was a little similar to the 28 year old girlfriend of my H's best friend. The OW was supposedly a law-school student in her mid-30's. The postings just seemed a bit TOO obvious.
I finally used google to do an image search of OW's picture. I was right to be so confused. The profile photo was an actress. The exact same photo appeared on multiple sites. I then looked at the friends. They were all somehow connected to the 28 year old troublemaker! Then, I noticed that almost as soon as "OW" made a post, the gf or one of the other thugs would post almost immediately after, using very similar language.
This GF, who apparently hates me for no reason, was fabricating a Facebook page for the sole purpose of torturing me...and H was in on it! I finally told him I was aware of the attempt to play games with me, but he should be aware one of our kids found the page first. He was furious, wondering how they knew the name of OW. I just stared at him.
The page was gone five minutes later. My H is 50 years old!!! What on earth is he doing playing games like that? That's just being petty for the sake of being petty. My H is under the influence of his 46 year old best friend's way too young girlfriend, who apparently has nothing better to do than involve herself in someone else's marital problems. I asked him how he could let them do that to me. He had no answer.
I was stunned to my core by the very meanness behind the action. I believe it was an attempt to get my focus off the real OW...who I identified months ago. He said something about it wasn't nice of me to make everyone hate her before they met her. I told him I had no sympathy or kindness to extend to a homewrecker. And my kids better not like her, after she had a hand in wrecking their parent's marriage. That just made him furious. I'm supposed to endorse his relationship with the skank? I think not.
I ran a background check on all his new friends, just to amuse myself. Boy did I hit pay dirt! Not one of them has a clean criminal record. The woman he's most interested in has over 30 arrests for thefts, burglary, bad checks, and bail jumping. He, who is so paranoid about money is dating a professional thief. I almost died laughing. I did not way a word.
All these crooks were so critical of the night I freaked out because my feelings were crushed by my husband's revelation of multiple affairs and had a wreck. The police didn't want to arrest me, and they didn't. They were forced to at a later time when his friend called to complain because he thought insurance wasn't going to pay. After my release from jail, my husband and his friend attempted to extort me into agreeing to favorable divorce terms for my husband by offering to drop the charges in exchange for agreeing to his insulting terms. I got that on audio, and now my L has it.
I've been placed in mental health care for 2 days, spent a night in jail, had my booking photo posted in two large cities on the nightly news and newspapers; according to my attorneys, my charges will likely be dropped. I will be able to expunge my one brush with the law. Everyone on the law side seemed to think H got off really easy, and my punishment was unfair. I also had to undergo an interview with my insurance company to clear the whole thing up. Insurance was satisfied I didn't do it on purpose and paid for the repairs resulting from the accident. His friends? His friends were having a field day at my expense. Considering they all did hard-time, I can kind of understand it. But...what hypocrites! H has no idea all of his friends have a record. I'm going to be mean and let him find out on his own.
I am losing all respect for H. He's chosen this route. He loves his new group of thugs/friends. He's chosen them over his family, and seems to be fine with the decision. Even if this is MLC, I don't see how he can live with himself. I'm guilty of hoping the thief/skank causes him great financial harm - as long as it doesn't harm me, too...LOL
I realize that is mean. I'm not always a good person. These people went out of their way to hurt me. I don't even know them well. I've never even met OW, but I know who she is thanks to my one day of snooping. She's 48. Her best friend is the 28 year old girlfriend. What on earth?
I'll be happy to be away from this trashy group of characters. It hurts me that H seems to be so happy with them, but he's already lost for now. His childhood must have been so much more awful than I realized.
So...that's my contribution to the snooping/evil Facebook section of your thread, Pho. LOL
Hi Pho, been reading up on your sitch for this thread and your family dynamics sound so similar to the 1 I had with the X.
It was a very crowded marriage... And I didn't last long enough. Funny how I thought the M imploded because of the outburst and the OW, but somehow it has become a digging up of mil's past hurts/ grievances against me.
Ancaire, They are bullies. I can't believe I'm reading this. I feel like you are dealing with junior high school kids, who's brains are still developing. Your attitude is awesome and you have maintained your sense of humor. You will come out on top Just give it time. Sorry you have to deal with all this though.
Pho, my mother had to deal with a passive aggressive MIL. Not as bad as yours, but pretty bad. (I heard nurses had to kick her out of the hospital when I was born) My mom basically did not encourage us to have a relationship with her and often complained and made fun of her to us (I know, not the moral way to go and very spiteful on behalf of my mom but I could see why she did it). We ended up never taking her seriously and just laughing and rolling our eyes when it came to her. It was almost like an us vs them situation and my dad just kept out of it or probably did know. Me and siblings would end up using grandma to play practical jokes on each other. We dont go out of our way to see her now but my poor dad trecks Across the belt 3 x a week to visit.
MILs only have power when you allow them to have it.
Georgia Bulldogs. Thank you. I am going to reread your post and think on it some more. I feel like my opportunity to spy on H has passed, but I have not ruled it out. It would be the healthiest thing for me to know the truth, and at this point I am feeling this is all taking a toll on me- my jaws hurt all the time, I am fatigued, getting chest pain. Something is still wrong, my body is telling me this. I also don't think I could stand to hear H talking to ow or even to his parents about me. I heard enough. I don't want to hear more, I just want to know if it has stopped. If I do decide to record him, I think I would ask a friend to listen to the recording so I don't have to hear it. On the other hand, if he is still doing these things, I believe it will eventually come out. So there is part of me telling me to wait and time will tell. I will think on it a little more.
I also agree 100% with what you say about the IL's. I have tried to remove myself as much as possible from them, however I have 3 children and this would be a lot easier if my children were grown, or even if they were just a little older. Ironically, SIL, who has been in the family for maybe 6 or 7 years now already does this. She avoids family events and her interactions with the IL's is limited to maybe an hour or two every few months. She does not have their grandchildren though, so its easier to maintain a distance. And the SIL prior to her also did not attend family events. But my kids are still little, and most of the visits are at my house, I can't just leave.
I went to an individual appointment with our family therapist this morning. It was very interesting. She told me that my body language when I am with H is "defeated" and crushed. She said I need to look him in the eye and be assertive. She said I need to do the same thing with MIL, and then she role played for me some examples of things MIL does to me on a regular basis and how I should handle myself. For example, MIL will lean across the table and take a sip of my drink, and then "oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was mine" and put it back with a smile. She must have done this to me 100x over the years. I usually act like its ok, I know she is doing it on purpose, but what can you say in a situation like that? The therapist said I am colluding with her and "letting her own me." She said to put the cup next to MIL's place setting and say "It's yours now." And look her in the eye. She said to do this in every situation, do not "fight" but use eye contact and a calm assertiveness to not let these things slide. Another example, MIL doesn't call me by my name, she calls me "the mother". As in "The kids and the mother are doing xyz now". The therapist said look her in the eye and say "I have a name." Why is it so hard for me to figure these things out? And also, these incidents happen one after the other, over the course of a weekend I would say there could easily be 20 or more of these types of slights.
She also said if H chooses MIL over me then let him go. I said I still love him and this is not the man I have known for 26 years, he is completely different now. She said sometimes that happens. People change. You have no control over that, he might come back, or maybe this is who he is now. If this is who he is now, you don't want him.
I am on a tangent now. Thank you GB for the time and effort you put into my situation. I really appreciate your perspective and your help. You have given me a lot to think about.
Gmum, I started to respond to you with a long list of their complaints about me, and then realized that is exactly the type of post that would get me into trouble if they stumbled across it, because they would go down the list to argue every point. Lets just say when I met H he was 20. He lived with his parents, they supported him. They knew every detail of his life and he was very involved with aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc during holidays and family events. Well, then he met me. And moved, and got a job (actually has always worked 2 jobs) and got 2 masters degrees, and had children, and moved again, and guess what? He went from a 20 year old child, to a busy adult man who no longer had time for every single family event (although went to most of them), no longer had time for long chats with mom every day, no longer did whatever mom and dad told him to, mostly because he was living his life, not out of rebellion. However the blame is on me- I "stole" him and changed him from sweet and family oriented to a distant non-family oriented person. Makes no sense at all. Not at all.
Ironically, his brother also got busy with life, all of his first cousins got busy and made lives for themselves, people do not stay the same as when they are teenagers or 20 year olds- sometimes they get busy with life. Not uninterested in their family of origin, or not even necessarily disconnected, but in the normal course of life you pull away and build your own life. And my IL's do not see this, they see it as I stole their son. They have said as much. I stole their son from his family. He is not the same anymore as when he was 20. They literally say this time and time again. The fact that I gave them their only grandchildren? Not even taken into account.
It would be the healthiest thing for me to know the truth, and at this point I am feeling this is all taking a toll on me- my jaws hurt all the time, I am fatigued, getting chest pain. Something is still wrong, my body is telling me this.
DB'ing rule # one, focus on yourself! You see your body telling you that you are not doing this enough. You are no good to your children or H if you get sick.
From the sound of some of your posts, you should immediately employ activities that bring you some kind of pleasure. Watch a comedian on TV. One that makes you belly laugh.
Go eat a sundae BEFORE dinner.
Get your hair done 
Do not stop, under any circumstances, until you feel better.
I also agree 100% with what you say about the IL's. I have tried to remove myself as much as possible from them, however I have 3 children and this would be a lot easier if my children were grown, or even if they were just a little older. Ironically, SIL, who has been in the family for maybe 6 or 7 years now already does this. She avoids family events and her interactions with the IL's is limited to maybe an hour or two every few months. She does not have their grandchildren though, so its easier to maintain a distance. And the SIL prior to her also did not attend family events. But my kids are still little, and most of the visits are at my house, I can't just leave.
I did the same with lots of my family members. Just leave the room. It is beyond the point of you worrying about their feelings. They can come and see the kids all they want. But you have things to do, in your private bedroom.
This may take a few tries until you got it. But just do it. How different would your life be right now if they disliked the fact that you left the room each time? It may slightly bother you, big deal. How upset is your life now that you must deal with those people? Leave the room, then forgive yourself.
I went to an individual appointment with our family therapist this morning. It was very interesting. She told me that my body language when I am with H is "defeated" and crushed.
This wont do! Never again. Starting now keep that head held high. They all owe you, not the other way around! She said I need to look him in the eye and be assertive. She said I need to do the same thing with MIL, and then she role played for me some examples of things MIL does to me on a regular basis and how I should handle myself. For example, MIL will lean across the table and take a sip of my drink, and then "oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was mine" and put it back with a smile. She must have done this to me 100x over the years. I usually act like its ok, I know she is doing it on purpose, but what can you say in a situation like that?
"No, I think you knew that was not yours."
Then shut up and wait for her to apologize. SHE OWES YOU, you dont owe her! The therapist said I am colluding with her and "letting her own me." She said to put the cup next to MIL's place setting and say "It's yours now." And look her in the eye. She said to do this in every situation, do not "fight" but use eye contact and a calm assertiveness to not let these things slide. Another example, MIL doesn't call me by my name, she calls me "the mother". As in "The kids and the mother are doing xyz now". The therapist said look her in the eye and say "I have a name." Why is it so hard for me to figure these things out? And also, these incidents happen one after the other, over the course of a weekend I would say there could easily be 20 or more of these types of slights.
She also said if H chooses MIL over me then let him go.
Mona thank you. I was more assertive with H pre-BD. Never with MIL. I just don't know how to handle her, mostly because she lies and if I say "that is your drink now" or whatever she would probably deny that she even touched it and accuse me of lying. This is the type of thing I am up against. She lies about EVERY THING. Anyway, since BD I have been so non-assertive with H because I am terrified that he will leave me. I have been GAL, 180, positive, etc, but the truth is I am scared of losing him. And in therapy it is even harder to "fake it" because of the topics being discussed. She told me to fake it. I try, wine helps! Music helps, if I play "tough" love songs, for example, that helps. But the truth is that I am so heartbroken and I am positive that this reflects in my energy. Trying so hard not to have puppy dog eyes, but then I end up withdrawing. I could never play poker, I could never be an actress, I wear my emotions on my sleeve. That said, there have been days or hours where I "acted" and there have been days and hours where it was genuine. So I can do it, I just need to do it more consistently and better. Only 2 more weeks until he is out of the house, I can do it for 2 weeks.
And Mona, I do avoid them now during visits. I go out, take a walk, run out to the store, visit a friend, I am in and out and not sitting still for long. It helps a lot.
I love Dr. Joy Browne. She always preaches 'cheerful and stupid' with people like MIL, like you don't understand that she's being disrespectful.
PS- You could always play poker online
he is leaving in January.
I read he was leaving in January but not why or where.
What is WH's reason for this?
Where is he going?
What did you counselor say about this?
Two weeks.... put on your best show. Just fake it. Make the house smell like cookies and home cooking. His last memories before he goes should be peace and tranquility and lots of home smells.
You've got time to retreat and go dark after he leaves. You'll have all the time you need to GAL after he's gone.
You may even be able to get WH on board with this by saying "If you are gonna go anyway we both have to be prepared that this may be our very last Christmas together as a family so I don't want it to be about fighting or arguing. Let's make this the best Christmas we can".
He doesn't deserve that and if he's leaving for "space" then I can just about guarantee he's leaving for his continuing affair (they still work together so it's "continuing" in my book). The worst thing for his mental state would be if the last couple weeks were actually good. Leaving is so much easier when it's a bunch of yelling and crying. Don't let him make you the villain.
After he's gone - then you pull the rug on him, go dark, GAL and try to make a good life for yourself while hoping he misses home and has second thoughts about his chosen behavior.
I'd also make sure to bust him cheating (documented) and tell his kids & parents and then go dark but DB isn't a big fan of any exposure so probably not a good idea.
Zues I don't know who Dr. Joy Browne is, I will look her up. I was thinking more along the lines of dealing with her Lizzie Borden style.
he is leaving in January.
I read he was leaving in January but not why or where.
What is WH's reason for this?
In September his parents visited. They left without saying goodbye. H told me it was because I made them so uncomfortable and unwelcome. I swear I had been welcoming, pleasant, and tried to stay out of their way and just let them spend time with the kids. H was really angry with me. I told him that I had done the best I could on that visit, and it couldn't get better. If he and they were still angry, it was time for him to consider leaving because this anger was unhealthy for me and for the kids. He put in for an out of state job at that time. Turns out that the next day he called his mother and she clarified that they were uncomfortable at my house because FIL was sick and wanted to be home in his own bathroom. Not uncomfortable about me. H told me this, but didn't apologize, didn't seem to realize what he had just done. In the two months since then he has cooled down quite a bit. Where is he going?
He is going across the country for this job. He had put in for it and it took a couple of months to come through. The pay is good. When it came through he asked me what I thought. I said "I have mixed feelings, but you need to make this decision." He decided to go. It is good money, is a good break with the tension around here, gets him away from OW (although we haven't discussed that, but still they are on the same inter-organization IM so they could be talking) What did you counselor say about this?
The counselor seemed excited about it, thinks we could use a break from each other as H is still pretty "checked out" and easily angered Two weeks.... put on your best show. Just fake it. Make the house smell like cookies and home cooking. His last memories before he goes should be peace and tranquility and lots of home smells.
You've got time to retreat and go dark after he leaves. You'll have all the time you need to GAL after he's gone.
You may even be able to get WH on board with this by saying "If you are gonna go anyway we both have to be prepared that this may be our very last Christmas together as a family so I don't want it to be about fighting or arguing. Let's make this the best Christmas we can".
I really like this. He doesn't deserve that and if he's leaving for "space" then I can just about guarantee he's leaving for his continuing affair (they still work together so it's "continuing" in my book). The worst thing for his mental state would be if the last couple weeks were actually good. Leaving is so much easier when it's a bunch of yelling and crying. Don't let him make you the villain.
After he's gone - then you pull the rug on him, go dark, GAL and try to make a good life for yourself while hoping he misses home and has second thoughts about his chosen behavior.
I am going to find a job and have the very best time with my kids that I can. He will be visiting once a month. I'd also make sure to bust him cheating (documented) and tell his kids & parents and then go dark but DB isn't a big fan of any exposure so probably not a good idea.
I already busted him with his parents but he beat me to it and told them that I hated them, and their strained relationship was my fault, and ow had encouraged him to reconnect. They love her for this and absolutely hate me. Said they have always hated me since they met me when I was 20 years old. FIL told H if it had been him he would have slept with her. IL's have cooled off since all of this as well. Everyone has cooled off and is behaving better, but still very tense and awkward.
FIL told H if it had been him he would have slept with her.
I know this is a DB forum, but I'm glad to pick up some parenting wisdom as well. I hope I can be this good of a role model, and I hope my son makes me this proud someday.
I'm so glad to be divorced. I never wanted it, XW could've been an outstanding partner if she chose to be. But if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Reality is she didn't. I'm grateful to be free of her destruction, and while there are no guarantees about how any future relationships work out I will know what I'm looking for and will take my chances. Probably will hold out for MWD to start a match-making sub-forum.
Zues, you just made my night. Kind of explains a little why my H is the way he is, doesn't it? If MWC makes a match making forum I would love to be the moderator. LOL. Something good has to come out of all of this.
Oh, I should add, FIL told ME that he told that to H. Not only did he tell him, but had to make sure I knew all about it! While my 8 year old was playing about 10 feet away.
Oh! And then he proceeded to tell me how he cheated on MIL! Not kidding! I cannot make this stuff up! He said she was a really nice "girl" until he cheated on her, that explains why she is so messed up today.
Pho,
Thank you for making me feel better about my in laws. Oh wait, that wasn't your intention? Weird. ...
I just drank 3 glasses of wine because H was supposed to be home at 6:30 He is 50 minutes late and I am wasting all this wine. I need it to cope with him.
The more I think about it, the more I think I have been deluding myself for years.
Pho,
Thank you for making me feel better about my in laws. Oh wait, that wasn't your intention? Weird. ...
SciDad, they are all awful. We don't have to compare.
Where do they live? There's actually a fairly good chance I have "family" connections that can change their perspective... oh wait actually, that might be through my fil, but I can make it work
SciDad, they live maybe 2 hours northeast of you. On an island that is not eroding quickly enough.
Dammnit H just came home and I have 3 glasses of wine in me and I just called him Honey. I wish there was a live chat feature on here, I need my DB friends to keep me occupied.
I'd love a live chat feature.
How is he?
Is it what you expected? Your husband not the wine.
Were the kids happy to see him?
How about you?
I love Dr. Joy Browne. She always preaches 'cheerful and stupid' with people like MIL, like you don't understand that she's being disrespectful.
PS- You could always play poker online
Omg! This cracked me up. I wish I had learnt of this before! I like that! 'Cheerful but stupid' can be used with so many other ppl!!!
Pho,
Thank you for making me feel better about my in laws. Oh wait, that wasn't your intention? Weird. ...
Scidad, I was just about to say the same thing of my ex- ILs.
Oh boy, you ppl are really da bomb
Pho, you have the patience of a saint, is all I can say... 25 years...
And yes, a live chat function will be good, although I doubt it'll be that useful to me with me being on another continent.
Hi Pho!
Just caught up now. Two things: First, i would advise against a recording device as it may be illegal in your state. I think some are forgetting that is if it is found by the H, that would cause all sorts of problems. The reason I say this is unless someone is out to get him him, then all fingers will most likely be pointed in one direction. Also, if this thread is found and that advice is remembered, well you get the pic...
Second, as far as that person and other stuff popping up on your browser, just go into the internet options and delete the cookies, browsing history, etc. that stuff won't pop up any more...
Pho...3 glasses of wine...and feeling pensive
Pho! Everything ok? I'm torn between laughing and outright fear! You are not allowed to "do a Judy" - I don't care how good that wine is. Say goodnight and go to bed!
Love you...LOL
Hey pho, how are you doing? Any updates? I hope you remembered a glass of water and Tylenol before bed. Please take care not to over medicate - it makes it tough to keep your head on straight with all this going on.
Trust me, I found out the hard way how easy it was to keep grabbing another beer to smooth my talks with my W, but somewhere along the way I realized I went a bit to far and was saying things I didn't want to. Now I let her drink and say things she doesn't mean. Not really better, but at least I don't end up kicking myself in the morning...
LOL SciDad - I woke up worried about Pho, too, this morning. What did she do?!? Is H still alive? Did she throw caution to the winds and attempt to (gasp) hug him or something sappy like that? Did she call MIL and tell her to bring her own glass next time?
I don't know, and the suspense is killing me!
Did she call MIL and tell her to bring her own glass next time?
I don't know, and the suspense is killing me!
Now I'm literally LOLing at work. Thanks Ancaire!
I think Pho should start tasting everything she gives her MIL in front of her. Want some coffee? Let me check if I put enough sugar in it.... Wine? Wonder if it tastes OK before I serve it....
Or if she wants to be sneaky I'd start licking the rims of all the glasses. No one needs to know, but it sure would make me feel better
Just caught up now. Two things: First, i would advise against a recording device as it may be illegal in your state.
It is illegal in my state. You have to ask permission before recording someone.
Pho... Sounds like you were ready to party. How did it end up?
Zues I don't know who Dr. Joy Browne is, I will look her up. I was thinking more along the lines of dealing with her Lizzie Borden style.
AMEN!!
pho,
You have an amazing sense of humor, even through this mess. It is completely eclipsed by H and your M. I am just dying for it to be a few months from now when you have placed that focus back on you are you start to come out of your R shell.
Your H is making a monumental mistake!
All I can say to help you is forget about the A if you can. It is 100% out of your control. He is out of your control. Pile positive things around you like gifts. When that silly man hands you a negative, pick up one of your pretty positives and play with it. Unfortunately you need like 5 positives for every one negative, but you can do it!
I have decided that my limit is 1 glass of wine from now on. I broke down and had what was probably the biggest crying fit of my life, and that includes BD, I punched the floor so hard that my hand is swollen and bruised today, I told him how much trauma and pain he has caused me in the last 10 months. I said I still loved him and would do anything to make this work but that I am at my breaking point with the pain, his nonstop anger, his unwillingness to be transparent about OW, his talking about me with his parents, etc, I said that I can not take those things one more day and as of tomorrow my new goal was going to be learning how to stop loving him.
He said he can't make his anger just disappear but he was working on it. Said he was "trying to love me" and a lot of other stuff. Some good, some awful.
Also revealed that he has been thinking of suicide since 2010.
At one point he commented on the amount of crying I was doing, I said that is 26 years worth of love and respect coming out of me and leaving my body. For good.
It was actually very therapeutic for me but I am not proud of myself and feeling very embarrassed today. And my hand hurts.
This morning he gave me a $300 gift card and made me a cup of tea. I just got back from the grocery store and he asked me to go to starbucks with him in a little while.
I know that what I did was not "dropping the rope" because it was noisy and messy and in his face, but I think I personally needed that release before I actually dropped the rope. I have had so much pain building up inside. I feel like I about to have a physical and mental breakdown, my chest hurts, my jaw hurts, I can't sleep, I cry too much. Its not as bad as post-BD but in the last 6 weeks it has gotten worse. He now knows that I am in severe pain and that I want off the roller coaster.
I was pretty sure that things were over but then this morning with the gift card and now he is being nice? I honestly have so much hate and love for him mixed together right now, it is obvious to me that he just can't be a husband to me right now. He just can't be. I am not taking any action legally and I will not have any more outbursts. I will continue to DB and I truly believe for me at least, that I needed this outburst to clear the air so I can move on. I had certain things that needed saying. It probably set him back a year on his therapy. It probably was a mistake.
I'm not going to starbucks with him by the way.
Now I am reading Mona and SciDad and Ancaires posts and literally LOL. On one of the worst emotional days of my life I can laugh out loud! I love you guys! Proof that life continues, we can joke, we can F up, but we can still laugh and find humor in the midst of all of this. Starting up with my new account soon. You will not be fooled.
Awww Pho. That really stinks but I'm a little jealous. I have never once confronted H with all the pain he has caused.
You are right, he can't be what you need right now. He is not capable and you have to let him alone to fix or not. he is trying to love you. Maybe he will get there some day soon.
I think his time away will be good for you all. I would just suggest that you try to make the last interaction one where you are positive, calm and confident.
Pho - I'm sorry you are in so much pain. But I do believe there is something to learn from all this. I still do believe in Jack Canfield's equation...
The formula I like to use to explain this concept is:E + R = O 
(Events + Responses = Outcome)The basic idea is that every outcome you experience in life (whether it's success or failure, wealth or poverty, wellness or illness, intimacy or estrangement, joy or frustration) is the result of how you have responded to an earlier event in your life. Likewise, if you want to change the results you get in the future, you must change how you respond to events in your life … starting today.
You had an outburst, an overly emotional one in which many things you withheld are now on the table. You were assertive. Now you have a cup of tea, a gift card and a request to talk.
If you want to save your marriage, I think you need to step up and take an assertive approach, instead of going along with status quo.
I'd talk to him (you talk he listens), if you can't do that I'd write a letter, have him sit down and listen.
Discussion needs to ultimately go towards a call to action. You explain your position (I love you, but I will not do this anymore). Then proceed on to your desired action (what do you want, a partner who is fully invested in the relationship? if so then setup an appointment to go talk to MWD. A fix for lack of sex? A fix for better communication? etc etc etc).
Being assertive spoke to him. I think you have to go to that well one more time.
Pho you helped pick me up at a time I was down. I appreciate that so much. I believe others feel the same as I do- you are a strong willed and courageous person who has and continues to work steadfast toward your desire. I thank you greatly for being a pillar on which to lean on and I know lots of us are happy to do the same for you.
I know personally the pain you are going through. The emotional as well as the physical pain from your breakdown. The revelation of Hs thoughts is something that shocked me and ripped my heart apart in my sitch when it also appeared. The mixed feeling of love and hate is inescapable when we reach breakdowns with people we love so much.
I think mahhhty is on to something in saying an asserive approach can help. But who am I to say? I left the stove when the pot was still cooking. I only want to say we are here reading and posting our lives and I for one am very thankful we have had the chance to together.
We all virtualy scratch each others backs and virtualy bring on the 2X4s. In this particular situation we all share a virtual hug with you. To help you pick yourself back up. It looks like you already have with the post following!
PS- That tattoo we talked about- I am thinking JCs Equation
My dear friend pho, I thought a reckoning was coming between you and your husband. You have cleared the air and he knows what troubles your heart. These are good things. Seeing you like this, in pain, might clear out some of the fog in his head, maybe just enough for him to find his way home.
I have been sober quite a while now and don't miss it at all. I understand other people feel differently. I am not trying to get you to stop drinking but am kindly suggesting you moderate it while in this arduous time. Hot chocolate is much more satisfying
Hi Pho, so sorry to hear about your pain.
Your H is shakened by your pain which doesn't seem all that bad. He's not denying it, and he's not angry at you for showing him how you feel.
It seems that your H is also opening up to you by telling about his suicidal thoughts? If he is asking you to go to starbucks, he is initiating R talks, perhaps you can go along, if you feel like you're up to it, and see what's going to happen? Maybe instead of you talking, you could wait for him to talk?
My XH initiated quite a few R talks in the months leading up to the D, but eventually I tired of them because he was always so angry. On hindsight, I realised that was probably the only way he knew of reaching out to me, and that he probably had to vent his frustrations first. I should have tried harder at validating and being patient.
But this is just me talking...
hmmm... and what was the gift card for? Can it cover lash extensions?
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"