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I found this on another thread posted by SANDI2 she has such knowledge
I'm sure it must be very difficult for you, but please understand that a WAW is a different creature from the girl you M. The girl you M was in love with you. Your WAW no longer feels in love with you. Your bride wanted you to fill her up emotionally. The woman you have now feels emotionally dead to you. You used to be all she thought about and she wanted to please you. Somewhere, that faded away. She wanted you to compliment her when you thought she looked great. Now, it kind of irks her to hear it from you. She admired and respected you as a man, But she has neither for you now. She wanted to be with you sexually. But now she no longer desires you.
Even when PT is not the primary LL, people in love still want to be touched by their S. People who have a high drive may still have sex with their S, but the in-love feelings aren't there. People on the board have different opinions about having sex with a WAS. If there was always a healthy sex life in the M......who knows? But if she wasn't the one who usually initiated, IMHO I would have to say she isn't interested. "Most" WAW's feel completely "done" with the M. Once done.....she feels that's it. Can't go any further with it, and won't try.
She doesn't get to that point overnight. The WAW feels very unhappy, neglected, and lonely for a long time. The H may say it's not true, but it's her feelings and it's how she remembers it (right or wrong). She feels "empty" and then she begins to feel "dead" inside.
When she feels dead, she's in an extremely vulnerable position. B/c the first male who says just the right words to make her feels special, makes her feel pretty, or young & sexy.....she is in danger of stepping into an emotional realm that will thrive on her emotions. The more ego food she gets, the stronger the emotional fantasy.....and pretty soon, you've got a monster who has replaced the girl you M.
Yes, she will start looking really good! She'll work out, dress in younger looking clothes, change her hair, wear more make-up, and some start hitting the party life. (That's why I personally think she has another man's attention....or is looking.) I mean, you have to ask yourself why is she suddenly doing this (especially when she's so obviously disinterested in her H). And if there isn't a "why", then you have to ask yourself who. It is usually a who that sets off the ego spark in a woman (who has felt dead for a long time). Once she feels that little spark, she sees there's life after death, and she's not about to give it up.
Now, your nature will want to do all those things you should have done a long time ago. But you see, she doesn't want you to do it now. In fact, if you try to do it now, it will backfire and make her pull away quicker than ever. That brings me back to the touching. Some DB coaches have advised certain folks to do a little touch to see the response. Depending on that particular stitch. But it sure doesn't happen in all cases! B/c the WAW is no longer attracted to her H, and she no longer desires his attention, compliments, or touches. In fact, she goes to the extreme the other direction from her old self. It seems anything he does simply turns her off, and that's why anything that resembles romantic intentions will get you bad results. And each time a LBH tries that route, she has to show him that she's serious about ending the M, b/c she thinks you aren't accepting it.
Get as much information as you can about the WAW, otherwise you will be completely defenseless.
Btw, I was once a WAW. This board saved my M. The DBing program is really designed for the S who wants to save the M. I was an exception b/c I really didn't have the desire to save it when I first came here, but I knew I was in trouble and needed guidance.
So, there is hope for you. Don't give up. You will have to learn to think differently about your R with your W, if you want go save this M. So, listen carefully to the advice given on the board. Also, don't try to pick and choose from various programs b/c it will be very confusing.
When a H finds himself in this stitch, he wants to be proactive in getting the M back on track. Most of what you will hear from the board will sound as if we are discouraging the LBS from doing that completely. But the truth is that you have to take a different plan from what your natural self tells you to do.
I suggest you start here with this plan of "action". First, do a lot of soul searching and evaluating yourself in the mirror. Take note of how you have changed since she M you. It will be tempting to argue how much she has changed also, but you must not look at her. After your self evaluation, list the ways you could change to improve. Granted, we can't be exactly like we once were in youth, beauty, etc., but we can do a lot to get that person back again. If that guy showed up tonight, would she recognize him? I bet she would.
I know that would be a tall order for many people who've been M for a while, so you may need to set some personal goals to help your improvement.
Perhaps this is not what you want to hear, and I'm sure it wasn't what you expected when you first came here. However, to be very blunt....she isn't in love with who you are now. She may fall back in love with the man you once were, or if you become even better....but that's the only hope you have in saving your M.
There is one factor you must bear in mind at all times about your WAW. She does not respect you. If she did, she wouldn't want to leave you. She cannot feel in love with you if she doesn't respect you as a man. We women are just wired that way!
The second factor to remember as you go through this journey....do not have ANY expectations! You will, and may not realize it, until somebody points it out. That happens when the LBS is getting too obsessed or out of balance in his quest to bust the D. I guess that sounds pretty crazy, but you'll see what I mean as you go along. Just try not to have expectations of her. B/c you can't control her (which you'll hear often on here), and b/c she won't respond to you like she once did. Therefore, if you say anything or do anything in order to receive certain expectations....you will more than likely be disappointed. I tell LBH's they set themselves up for disappointment by having any degree of expectations of the WAW. You are the only one that can handle it.
One thing that might help is to not look for the old wife to show up. Don't do or say things thinking you'll snap her out of her fog, b/c you won't. I know you're going to, everyone does, but eventually you see it doesn't work. The more you try, the more pain you will have b/c it's another form of expectations.
The "plan" is to be "cool". No pressure on her whatsoever. Which is very difficult to H's b/c almost everything from him is pressure to her. Therefore, you make the decision that you're going to be happy in life with or without her. Then you proceed. Yes, it's hard. But again, it's the only way.
Being cool is not being mad. It's not pouting or feeling sorry for yourself. That's why a lot of H's have problems understanding giving the W space. They confuse it with being angry, in a bad mood, etc. But you're the guy who is too cool to act that way. Remember how cool acting you had to be back in the days of dating (or wanting to date... a particular girl? Cool guys don't smother, persist, chase, beg, whine, and act pitiful. Remember what the other lady said about how she could find her H repulsive? You don't want to give your W reason to agree with that statement!
A cool guy is oozing with confidence! Gosh, that's attractive to a woman! Does your self confidence need some update? Maybe your appearance needs a little update as well, IDK, but it doesn't hurt to check.
Notice how a cool guy has a certain charm? Almost like he's having fun with everything he does and with everyone he's around. People like being around that type of person. He's fun and causes them to feel good being around him. He makes it seem so easy, doesn't he.....as if he didn't have a worry in the world. As hard as it may seem, you really need to practice being as much that way as possible during these dark days. Now, I'll warn you, she may think you are not taking her seriously, and try to reinforce what she's already said, but in the long run of things, it's still the better route to take than the alternative.
A few more tips in your daily family stuff is to keep things as "light" as possible when you are with the W and son. Avoid any bait that will trap you into a R talk or fight....with either one of them. Not knowing their personalities, if you can play and have a good time, then great, and if not then have it by yourself. Listen to happy or inspirational music,but none of those downers that will having you crying in your soup. When watching movies, don't watch stuff that's sad or about romance b/c that's just asking for awkwardness and probably more pain for you. When having the opportunity for family outings, make the most & enjoy them. Heck, maybe you can even create some good times. However, since there are no small children (which are often a good excuse for some events), it may be more difficult not to appear as pushing.
When with friends and relatives, if you start getting hung up on what others may know or what they may be thinking....you won't enjoy anything when around them. Which leads me to something else. Don't share this with any of them. Don't pull them in on the stitch.
I'm not a fan of FB b/c it has been a tool in hurting a lot of M's. I know it's the people that uses it, right? Still, I would encourage you to try to stay off your W's FB b/c it will be like a knife cutting you every time you check it out. People sound like they are back in junior high school when talking about their S's FB.
Don't start trying to do all the household chores, cook all the meals, etc., thinking it helps your cause. It doesn't. It will just make her mad b/c she'll see right through it. And please don't be one of these men who declare they are doing it "because they want to", or doing it for themselves. A lot of men tackle projects their W's have tried to get them to do for years (like painting the garage, or something), but just bear in mind that it doesn't get you any brownie points with her. That's another one of those "why now" she'll ask herself.
Many men suddenly find that they don't want to GAL b/c they just want to be around the WAW. They pass it off as just being homebodies or loving to be with the kids, when they didn't have any problems working and being gone before. Gee, I'm coming across as sounding terrible, but I'm really trying to get you to see something......(and btw, this is not an intended put-down to any particular man)..........that if I can see through it with a person I don't even know, then the woman that is M to you will certainly tell when you are trying to make points with her. In the past it could have worked, but not now.
Getting a social life has been reported as being one of the best of the best things a LBS can do to really make a difference. You won't believe it, so you better prove it, okay? Kind of funny the affect it seems to have on the WAS, too.
I'm not going to add anymore "don'ts" right now b/c it must sound terribly discouraging to you. Again, it's not all these things you "do" to win her back. It is about who you become. You work on being the best man you can possibly be....and makes you happy. Then once you're happy with that guy, she may decide she wants to be with him too. Who knows, you may even decide to let her.
So time for ghost to start really knuckling down
I posted the above so I could read it every day
Ghost
I suggest every LBS reads this multiple times. Sadly, a lot of us will spend endless amounts of time and energy trying to get to this point, when we should just read sand2's posts!
Now, Ghost, YOU'VE got to put this in place!
Thanks Ghost for reposting that... I didn't catch Sandi's post before.
Sandi is so right on it's not even funny. Her description of a WW fits mine to a T, new clothes, new bras, new underwear, more gym, more make up etc etc etc.... it makes my blood boil recalling her going out to where ever in that mini skirt.... that is not the girl I married or that I grew up with.
But, I literally cannot do anything about it. I believe in Sandi's remarks about confidence. It is so important and must be built up. For me, I can do this by hitting the gym hard, becoming more social and a new wardrobe, all things I did before I was married just like Sandi mentions. These little things have helped me a ton. I see the change in my interactions with others. WW has no idea (I think), but it makes me feel good.
I agree that you should reread that post often. You do seem to be doing better the past couple of days. Let's keep it up!
Ok so ghost is really going to try to detach and not pursue the w
Nw as you may know I am in an in house separation things seems to be fairly calm and static but I have defiantly been moved to friend rather than husband
So my question is i detach GAL pull away from my W in the hope it draws her in ....right ? ....wrong
My M is over she says she is not in love with me I guess ilubnilwu she sees me as a friend so if I cannot pursue ....then all I can do is detach nothing i can do I cannot friend her back.
Sandi2 I am not sure is my w is waw or ww
She still insists that she is not looking for anyone else and is just going out to have fun for herself but she is txting and going out clubbing so ...Idk
It probably makes no difference anyway
I can see us getting further and further apart emotionally
The principle is that when you draw away, you eventually draw the spouse towards you as they don't really want to lose you. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I guess you mean .....hope they do not want to loose you
Sandi2 I am not sure is my w is waw or ww
She still insists that she is not looking for anyone else and is just going out to have fun for herself but she is txting and going out clubbing so ...Idk
I think we have been over this before. Previously, I grouped the WW and the WAW together. I started the Help for the Newcomer LHB who has a WW by stating the reason I would be separating the two. Over the years, I continued to see confusion in newcomers over the different advice from the board members. After I saw women who had left the M, due to abuse or other more justified (or even understandable) reasons, refer to themselves as a WAW.......I decided to write that thread.
If a person has never had experience being wayward, or having a wayward spouse, then I can understand why they would see applying the softer approach. Waywardness is in the heart/mind/attitude. An affair is overt behavior of what is in her heart. A woman does not
have to be in an affair in order to be defined as wayward! However, if she is in an A, then she certainly
is wayward, IMO. It just seems that is usually the case we see here. The same with MLC. A person can experience MLC without an A, but we usually see it hand in hand here. Can you understand what I am trying to explain?
Read what I copied and pasted from a dictionary:
contrary, perverse, restive, balky, wayward mean inclined to resist authority or control. contrary implies a temperamental unwillingness to accept orders or advice <a contrary child>. perverse may imply wrongheaded, determined, or cranky opposition to what is reasonable or normal <a perverse, intractable critic>. restive suggests unwillingness or inability to submit to discipline or follow orders <tired soldiers growing restive>. balky suggests a refusing to proceed in a desired direction or course of action <a balky witness>. wayward suggests strong-willed capriciousness and irregularity in behavior <a school for wayward youths>.
It never mentions spouse, marriage relationship, or affair. So, do you see any of the above describing your W?
Let me ask you something, Ghost. What would you do differently, if I told you she didn't have a wayward blood cell in her heart?
Sandi2 I am not sure there is very much I can do definitely want I will do definitely I can see from the last three months of being nice it has not drawn her closer to me I am not sure that she is any further away either
So much of my problems comes from my thinking and I know that my thoughts create my feelings that create my experience The trouble is it is also very difficult to control your thinking but then thoughts come and go as you can I have two thoughts at the same time
I feel that I'm now on the pathway where after Christmas my wife will tell me that she wishes to sell the house and although this is something that I have been very much against I now realise that it may take this for her to realise the loss
I am 46 my whole life has been and has resolved around the children and my wife I had a simple life work and spend time with the family .....my GAL plans will put me right outside my comfort zone as I have not had to look to build new friends as I have no need
I do feel that I am starting to detach myself albeit at a very slow rate and I can probably make things easier for myself however as it has been said I am perhaps quite stubborn
The post from you Sandi2 that I took from one of your replies on another thread I will read it will hopefully help me in the direction I need to be going
Thank you
Huggs
Ghost
It'll come mate. Time is your friend. Sandi2 is a star here and you are very lucky to have her advise you.
Peace
The morning has been better did nnot feel such pain
I still keep trying to make things better with w
It is so difficult to pull away from her when we are getting along ok
But trying to nice her back does not seem to be working
I am still doing more arround the house with regard to laundry washing and house chores this is and has become a norm for me I seem to be doing this out of habit
Things that in the past I did just so she would see me doing them now I just do them.
If I could lose the fear I know I would feel better
I fear not being able to cope
I fear being all alone
I fear my mum passing away she is getting old and then me having no support from my w when this happens
I fear not spending time with my children on the days my W have them
I fear missing out on Christmases Halloween holidays
I fear the change
I fear someone else making my W happy in bed
I do not want another partner with children I want my life to be spent with my family
I want my w and my family
I want to grow old with my W
Today I will continue to make sure I am the best ghost possible
Goals
Smile in the mirror
Be happy arround my W
We the man only a fool would want to leave
My wife's car has a slow puntcher I feel I should take it in for her a an act of kindness but this is not me pulling away
I too am doing more around the house. I suppose if I am honest initially thus was mainly to help W or be nice. Part of it was to just be more involved.I know now that this has not and will not endear me to W. Now I continue and am even more proactive at just doing what needs to be done. I am now much better at seeing ahead what needs doing. I am doing a fair share of household stuff but not the lion's share.
For me doing this is something I want to bring to a future R. Before I waited to be asked or I asked about doing such stuff. I am careful not to be bending over backwards to please W or save her from doing stuff. What I am trying to say I am trying to get the balance right and to be roughly where it would be if everything was OK in the M.
But NOW I am thinking less of impact on W, although still consider all my actions so as not to counter my overall goals. Now I am omore consciousof the possibility that someday I will have to do everything on my own. I never feared that but I don't want to just be able to manage, I want to be best I can be so it won't be a stress. I want to be ready so most of my energy can be used for me and esp for my boys.
You are heading towards that, and whether you want it or not, it is likely you will have to run a household alone. Be ready. You need to use the time you have left before selling to be ready. Maybe W will notice that and rethink things but you cannot bank on it.
I know I probably did not reply to your biggest issues but I'll leave that to those already advising you so well.
I still feel helpless to the outcome I guess this is because I am ....I cannot control the outcome
As much as I hope for us to reconnect I struggle to see how this will happen
I have to have no expectations
No looking ahead
Stay with today
Ghost
Hi G,
Sorry to see you're still going round in circles.
How do you expect a wound to heal if you keep re-opening it to see the damage.
I think you need to stop typing the words you say in each post and say them to yourself and UNDERSTAND what they mean.
When I read posts about being a better person it seems the majority go into super dad mode and mr. sheen mode. Spending endless hours with the kids and leaving the house clean and tidy like mary Poppins.
My question is if this really works. Have you really thought about what could have really messed up your marriage? Was it really only you gave a few hugs less and did not have polishing skills? Do you think trying to be Mr. Perfect will work?
IMO I think we first need to see where we really went wrong and validate what the WAS says to see if it was true. In other words use true insight. I also believe that being the best person only a fool would leave does not mean spending endless hours with the kids and leaving the home spotless but much more.
G, i really think you should stop posting on other people's boards, stop sharing and caring about their pain when it is clear you are unable to handle yours.
Whatever life may bring to you, believe me the hard part is yet to come. if you are not ready now for this part you will not be ready for the rest of the journey. This is 4play to how life will be later on.
Whether she stays or goes, you will be either piecing or rebuilding and from i know and read, it is much harder and longer than what you are going through.
Stop asking the same questions you know the answer to, get a grip on your life before you lose it.
At the end of the day it is all you can control....
peace bro..
Ok I will do this stop posting,
At the same,time I will go get a Bandaid and stick it on my broken heart and see if that helps
I know you mean well I guess,some people cope better than others
Yes I have to to somehow get a grip move the [censored] on
25 years together is a frikin long time every day has been with my w for as long as I can remember
Thanks for your support
Ghost
I believe, if you read sandi2's posts, being 'nice' will not work. It didn't work for me!
Didn't work for me either
Didn't work for me either
Hi G,
Of course I do mean well and do not take my comments to heart. I wish I had the answers to many questions, that would make things easier to heal.
Unfortunately I do not. Dealing with a S that wants out, be they WW, WH WAW, WAH or any other acronym is as you have seen painful and exhausting.
Your situation now is textbook and you are totally lost, understandable. The problem is that the pit you have to drag yourself out of depends on you, your inner strength. No matter how many posts you read, no matter how many words of encouragement you get the simple fact is that at the end of the day it is up to you.
Some people do cope better than others and I believe it is because of their attitude and helpful advice. I think we all go into a sort of survival mode after a BD, a sort of ER to minimize damage without thinking things out clearly.
The thing now G is that you have been given the tools to cut the hemmorrhage, patch it up and start rehab. The tool is knowledge. You have been given lots of it and it does work. I can confirm from my own experience. I was lost (in some areas still am) but had I not found DB I would definitely be in a much worse situation than I am now.
The hardest part though G is to take off the band aid, clean the wound, apply the medicine, patch it up and move on. Peeling off the band aid once in a while to see how it is and not stop it from restricting your moves is not the answer (from dr. House hehe)
You need to take a deep breath, look at it and get to work on it for your own sake. It will hurt like h*** and will leave a scar but in time it will heal, the more so if you dont smother it. Let it breath.
I do not know your W nor you and everything I know of your situation is down to your words. You were adamant about a lot of things which turned out to maybe not be so. One thing I found out about my own situation is that I really did play a part. She is not the evil lord trying to destroy my world but the opposite. Someone trying to get out of it. My failure to be a good host and accepting this possibility is what is destroying it. So I am the evil lord.
Once you know your role, it is easier to apply the remedy.
You have to see what role you really did play (something I still think you have not done and rather easily boil it down to not helping at home and not being there). I heard the same words from my own W and it was true. I was also a lousy dad. During hard times she was the lighthouse and i guess with time it just burned her out.
Now the roles are changed and I need to be the one giving stability on all areas and unconditional love with the hope she will one day want me and not need me. If I lose her, I admit it wasnt all my fault but she did, with hindsight, put up a fight to keep this going. The fight and determination I think she deserves in return.
In your case I read about the house, selling it and how worse off she will be. To me that is needing and not wanting. G, you need to make her want to stay with you and not need to stay with you. You have to be in the position where if she had the financial means to live equally as now but on her own she would choose to stay. One thing I have found on some posts is that sometimes the partners do prefer to live less comfortably for in exchange greater happiness. Alone or with OP. We cannot lie back and gloat that they will be worse off and in time will realize it. Reckless mistake.
At this moment you are in dire need of her and do not want to lose her. I never unerstood this before but now realize that once BD happens it is the best thing to lose her, at least in your case. It may sound strange and may even have a different terminology but hear me out.
At the moment you need her. In house separation is really really tough. The boundaries are unclear and going dark or dim or any other shade of grey is complicated when you share the same light bulb. She clearly does not want you but may still need you for the time being. Looking at things as they are now, you clearly need her out of the picture (your mind) so that you can change from need to want. Like when you first met her. You wanted her and she wanted you. That attitude is what you need now. You had your life but shared it with her. Now your life IS HER. Where is yours?
If she was not in the picture you would come to terms with that, cry it out and then start your rebuilding. The fact she is still with you makes you incapable of doing that. The fact she is still with you prevents you from maturing emotionally. The fact she is still with you makes you shift your focus from yourself to her. The fact she is still with you prevents you from advancing in so many way.
I know there are those who argue that spending some time apart is not the correct thing and the gift of time the WAS give us we should put to use. The thing though is that in house separation if not handled correctly is a time that runs out with little or no gain. Sometimes not knowing is better than guessing. You live your life, let her live hers and start to fret less about what you dont know.
You G have a habit of stating you know what is going through her head, her emotions at any moment and her final intentions. Believe me, you don't. I learned this thanks to a nudge from some members. My W to this day still has an internal battle going on. I decided to stop waiting by the phone some time ago. When she needs me to step in she knows where to find me but it is her battle and she needs to be convinced on her own. You cannot force someone to be ILWY.
At the end of the day G, whatever the outcome you have to be someone different. Not a Mary Poppins. If it should come to a D then you will need alone time to sort yourself out, see who you really are and then offer that new partner a G2.0 and not Mrs. G's Ex.
Hope to have made sense bro.
Being nice didn't work for me, it made her pull away faster.
Ok I will do this stop posting,
No!
Dont stop posting. What Maximus is saying is that before you hit SUBMIT, read the post to yourself. You have a lot of questions that I bet you already know the answers to. A lot of hurts that youve already hurt.
Post away. But, make sure youre absorbing the responses.
^^^^What Maximus said^^^^ Pure gold.
I am fully awareThe part that I played in the demise of our marriage I do feel responsible for the fact that I did not give her the time that I should've I did not give her the love that I should of and for this I have nothing but regret.
I guess I am still at the point where in her mind it is over but I still do not want it to be over I'm still yet to accept it is over and I want to believe that there has to be some hope that there could be some possibility.
That we might find a way to reconcile our differences perhaps this is because we are getting along so well perhaps this is because we do things together perhaps it's because When I say to her I am worried and scared about the sale of the house that she turns round and says that we will deal with it when and IF it happens.
Do I think I stand any more chance of getting my marriage back honestly no I don't but I do have to try and I do have to reach the point where I can look at myself in the mirror and say that I did everything that I could do to try and save it to try make it better right now am I there I don't think so
How will I cope the day she tells me that she's going or the day that the house sells and she goes on her way ....how I don't know I just pray that between now and then I will find some strength.
Day by day .....how do I get myself to the point where I let go and accept it is over
Three months nearly four and I still cannot imagine her not being there I am crying uncontrollably this is not right surely.
How do I [censored] do this ....
Is this dropping the rope or is that something different
Please help me,to get through this
Ghost
I am fully awareThe part that I played in the demise of our marriage I do feel responsible for the fact that I did not give her the time that I should've I did not give her the love that I should of and for this I have nothing but regret.
OK. How about this. What do you think SHE contributed to the downfall of your marriage? You are not completely responsible. As for your regret, if you tried to build a house with no nails and it fell apart, would you blame yourself? You did what you thought was best. You didnt have the tools to realize the error in your ways. Now you know, and you can do better next time.
I guess I am still at the point where in her mind it is over but I still do not want it to be over I'm still yet to accept it is over and I want to believe that there has to be some hope that there could be some possibility.
There is hope. She may change her mind SOMEDAY. But you cant live your life expecting that she does. Or waiting for it to happen. You cannot put YOUR life on hold waiting to be her backup plan.
That we might find a way to reconcile our differences perhaps this is because we are getting along so well perhaps this is because we do things together perhaps it's because When I say to her I am worried and scared about the sale of the house that she turns round and says that we will deal with it when and IF it happens.
STOP LISTENING TO EVERY F'ING WORD SHE SAYS. STOP TELLING HER YOURE WORRIED. SHE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND RIGHT NOW.
Do I think I stand any more chance of getting my marriage back honestly no I don't but I do have to try and I do have to reach the point where I can look at myself in the mirror and say that I did everything that I could do to try and save it to try make it better right now am I there I don't think so
You already KNOW the path. You already know what you need to do. You just dont want to because it seems counterintuitive. What do you have to lose, right now?
How will I cope the day she tells me that she's going or the day that the house sells and she goes on her way ....how I don't know I just pray that between now and then I will find some strength.
Ghost. Shes ALREADY gone. There is no "day". You cope by following the path laid out in front of you. You work on detaching. You get your own life. Yeah, it'll hurt....but it will hurt a lot less than anything that has already happened.
Day by day .....how do I get myself to the point where I let go and accept it is over
Three months nearly four and I still cannot imagine her not being there I am crying uncontrollably this is not right surely.
How do I [censored] do this ....
Is this dropping the rope or is that something different
Please help me,to get through this
We ARE. We're leading you right to f'ing water, but we cannot make you drink. You have to actually do that by yourself. Theres really no more any of us can say to you that hasnt already been said. It's time to DO. IT.
Frank, but sensible. Ghost, let the house go. It's just bricks, you can buy another house one day. You need to repair you right now. Crying uncontrollably is not going to make her come back. Keep that to yourself.
Can you afford to move out? I think that your in house separation is doing you no good and your wife loads of good. Here's your W's perspective - I need something - where's ghost? I'll just whistle and he'll run to me like a puppy dog! My life is made. I can treat him like $hit and he keeps coming back for more. All the things he needs from me like sex and love, well, he can just wait for them.
Do you get what I'm saying here?
Ghost. I agree, let the house go. I also want you to know- really know- that we are ALL going through this same pain. You are not alone. You are not weak for being heartbroken or overwhelmed. The guys are being tough on you- this is tough love. Their hearts are just as broken as yours. But we are all doing it, some better than others, but its really the only way. Take the advice you are getting here. Please, Ghost, it will still hurt no matter what you do, there is no easy way out of this.
Ghost.
This is on my signature and it was what helped me see a way out, maybe it will help you.
"Whether you worry or not has no affect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can."
~UrWorthy
Maximus - I saved your post. Thank you for that.
I understand why huddy asked if you can afford to move out. I personally think you would be better getting W to move out. If you decide you need space to deal with this, you tell her in house separation is not working and she should leave. You will need to do this in a strong way.
I understand your reluctance to separate but you are struggling too much as it is. IMO.
Again today you have received a lot of advice and support.That is something truly amazing to come out of this.
Good luck and DO something with the advice given.
I can see from the last three months of being nice it has not drawn her closer to me I am not sure that she is any further away either
I don't see how that answers your question about if she's a WW or WAW. It simply means things are in limbo.
So much of my problems comes from my thinking and I know that my thoughts create my feelings that create my experience
I agree. I also believe you can control a great deal of it.
The trouble is it is also very difficult to control your thinking but then thoughts come and go as you can
Yes, it is difficult. However, I believe when we constantly go over and over the same things.....without disciplining ourself to stop, it can turn into something else. It can become obsession, feed our fears, etc. For example, how many times have you posted about your worry over selling the house? Every time, you talk as though this decision is entirely left up to your W and you are just sitting helplessly on the bylines. But my point is that you don't just
refer to it, but almost say word for word each time. So, how can that be helpful in controlling your thought patterns if you persist in writing it over and over again? I'm no authority. It just seems that at some point, you would have to do something else to help yourself with these recurring thoughts. I don't know how to stop a thought from entering into my head, but that doesn't mean I have to allow it to linger around in there. We have to replace those bad thoughts with something else. Why not start changing it by refusing to write this all out about the house again? Have you tried it, to see how you feel after....say, a week?
well put, I keep reading and reading it
Hi G,
(says with a sigh...)
IMHO your paragraphs are mixed and tell a different story than the one you are saying.
P#1 - I am fully aware....
You are not fully aware of the part you played nor as Azz says have you thought about the part she played. Remember the rules about believing half of what she says? Why on this count believe word for word? Here is why I strongly suggest for you to really look into what happened from an unbiased view point. I always think there is 1 real truth. Each party in a discussion has their own and then there is the real truth unbiased and unadulterated. You have your version based on your messed up mind. Hers with her own vision. Try and find the 3rd.
P#2 - I guess I am still..
You do not have to guess. Yes, you are STILL here and exactly right. For her it is over. You do not want it to be over. You still cannot accept it and you still want to believe that there is some hope.
P#3 - That we might find a way..
You are still hanging on to the idea that the M is not over. When you mention reconcile differences what exactly do you mean? All I have heard is how neglectful you have been. When you say our it must mean she has something to change? What is it? Does she know? Have you told her? Do YOU know? What does she think? What differences are there when you are blaming yourself?
The fact she says you will both deal with it means she still wants out. She wants a new life without YOU. That means a BIG reconciliation.
P#4 - Do I think...
YES, you still think you have a chance of getting your marriage back. You are lying to yourself writing NO. Secondly your M IS over.
Do you really want to go back to the same M? Why not do what she has done and bury it. Now try and work on yourself to have an option to a new R with your W.
You have reached a point where you can look at yourself in the mirror and say I did everything that I could do to try and save it to try make it better... only thing is like Old Blue Eyes sang... you did it your way. Now try and do it the right way. You know how to you are just afraid of messing it up more. Crying uncontrollably and being a doormat to her ... pffftt really?
P#5 - How do I cope..
She already has told you. Her heart is NOT with you. That train left. What was left behind is bait which you are nibbling to every day. The prize itself is long gone. You still cannot accept this because she is there and doing things with you. Hence why you have to accept the reality NOW. Live the pain NOW and grow stronger from it NOW. So when and if she does leave it will hurt less and you will not go back into survival mode but handle it better. You also need to accept this in order to apply the advice given.
P#6 - Day by day (remaining summed up)
You ask the same questions over and over and get the same replies over and over. If you need to vent that is normal and do it. It helps. If you come for answers listen and evaluate. No one here will give you the answer you are looking for at this stage. They are giving you the answers you need, not the ones you want. At this point you have a serious issue with acceptance on all levels. Until you overcome this you are lying to yourself.
One final thing G. And a bit of humour here... if she were to seduce you because she needed it, would she want the tender and sweet guy or the one who would tie her to the bed so she doesnt fall off? In which category were you when you met and in which are you know? chill
Oh and remember regarding the house thing.... it is just that, a house. What you want is a home and they also come in all shapes and sizes.
Peace bro..
I'll level with you ghost (probably all the guys will say the same) - I'm scared. Yup, there you go, I said it. There isn't a day goes by without me wishing this nightmare would end. However, you have got to start being practical about this. Your W is in the 'f*** you' zone. She doesn't care if Ghost is scared or hurting. Why? Because you're still doing everything for her and hanging on to her by having meals etc.
I look at me now and at the start. I remember on BD day literally begging for another chance. I had no idea what I'd done wrong, but was willing to apologise for anything for her to stay. I look at me now and think 'what a dick', my W has to WANT to be with me, not me wanting her. It hurts bud, but you've just got to make that leap of faith!
So Ghost, where do you go from here?
I'll say again, for 4 months in you are really doing quite well and nothing you are feeling is out of the ordinary or strange.
Now, you have all these great people following you and steering you in the right direction, you should be really grateful.
Stop thinking about your wife (I know, easier said than done) and look after yourself. So where are you with the lawyer and the legal standpoint. Do not count on your wife to do the "right" thing.
Stay strong buddy...
Hey buddy.
You are getting great advice here. I remember being at your stage, and it's the hardest thing I ever did. Really, I kid you not.
I did leave the house. It was the best thing I ever did because it allowed me to regain my perspective and get myself on an even keel. The good folks here guided me to this place. Max and Azz are right. You are hanging onto a M that's already dead. Accepting that is tough. Really tough. But day by day you will get stronger. Your still obsessing right now. I get that. It will pass if you follow the advice here.
Your salvation isn't in saving your M. You can't do that right now. Your salvation is in saving you. Focusing on you is where you need to be. You need to let her go.
Peace
I understand why huddy asked if you can afford to move out. I personally think you would be better getting W to move out. If you decide you need space to deal with this, you tell her in house separation is not working and she should leave. You will need to do this in a strong way.
Getting W to move out is not an option unless I really want to upset the apple cart right now she is saying she is talking 50/50 access rights and she only wants half the value of the house
I understand your reluctance to separate but you are struggling too much as it is. IMO.
Again today you have received a lot of advice and support.That is something truly amazing to come out of this.
Yes the advice is amazing I need to start to follow more of it
Good luck and DO something with the advice given.
I'll level with you ghost (probably all the guys will say the same) - I'm scared. Yup, there you go, I said it. There isn't a day goes by without me wishing this nightmare would end. However, you have got to start being practical about this. Your W is in the 'f*** you' zone. She doesn't care if Ghost is scared or hurting. Why? Because you're still doing everything for her and hanging on to her by having meals etc.
I look at me now and at the start. I remember on BD day literally begging for another chance. I had no idea what I'd done wrong, but was willing to apologise for anything for her to stay. I look at me now and think 'what a dick', my W has to WANT to be with me, not me wanting her. It hurts bud, but you've just got to make that leap of faith!
Leap of faith yes have to find it
Frank, but sensible. Ghost, let the house go. It's just bricks, you can buy another house one day.
Can you afford to move out? [b]I really do not know if I can or not certainly not to stay in the same area[/b] think that your in house separation is doing you no good and your wife loads of good. Here's your W's perspective - I need something - where's ghost? I'll just whistle and he'll run to me like a puppy dog! My life is made. I can treat him like $hit and he keeps coming back for more. All the things he needs from me like sex and love, well, he can just wait for them.
Do you get what I'm saying here?
Thank you all for the comments and the support one of the problems that I have is hearing it and dealing with it are two separate issues I am trying to accept it but I am still very much in denial
I do not know if four months into this is early days or not all I know is that right now my life feels to be falling apart I am self employed and my work is going quiet to add to my concerns
I do not want to separate from my W ....IT HAPPEND
I do not want to be a part time dad have the kids only several days a week if I am lucky it WILL HAPPEN
I do not want to sell our house IT WILL HAVE TO SELL
The logistics of selling we have soooo much stuff in this house every single thing every single item ....will need to go or be packed up ...so much stuff time for a good clear out
I am not looking for answers I know I am spinning round and round I just need to get my head arround the full logistics of my position
Will post again soon
can anyone please recommend any TEDTalks videos that I can watch to try and help with my way forward thank you
are you exercising Ghost? I mean like really exercising... 5 times a week?
Pinn No I need to do this I joined a gym but have not been going for the the last week or two I have been busy in the evenings
Goal for tomorrow
Go to the gym
No relationship talks
Find a local dance group I am going to take up dancing something very new for me never done this before
Ghost
good... I think you should make the time for it Ghost. I have class tomorrow night with lots of stuff to do and work in the morning but I still went tonight. It is the best medicine. Makes you feel good and there is a pseudo social aspect to it which is nice. Get it into your routine.
It is funny you mention the dancing. I kinda wanna swing dance... maybe i'll do it.
Let's stick to those goals tomorrow
Really struggling to sleep now trying to find something to watch that might help me sleep
For what its worth Ghost I think you showing signs of improvement.
Just keep trying and eventually it will add up to a big difference.
Ghost, if you're finding sleep a problem, try Nytol. It's herb based, so non addictive like sleeping pills. You'll get at least six hours out of that.
Thank you huddy will get some of that sounds just what I need right now hope you have a good day
Did not get much sleep at all last night going to try to get some of the sleep remedy that Huddy recommended ....
Been to the gym big work out feel better for this still spending time ..with the w but will need to try to spend less as the days go by just do not know quite how I will mange this not looking for answers just know it is going to be hard
Not sure if I have got my sitch wrong I only suspect an EA have no proof but it is what it is for now
She told me today that the reason we split was she had changed had become a very different person does love me but just not in the way I want her to love me
I feel that if she says ths then I have even less to feel that it was all my fault
I guess she just changed so I do not know if there is anything I can do other than move on and this is going to be very very hard
I do not feel she is cake eating she does not ask me to do things for her I choose to do them
Another day
It took her three years to detach and make her mind to separate.....so I am four months in to this not going to be easy but I inow this will take time
Ghost,
I am seeing too much of myself in you.
May I be blunt?
You are getting some really great advice from people who are spot on. The problem is you are not listening to any of it. You are reading it and as you read it you are building up a response and excuse.
95% of this is a battle in your head and the more you keep it there the more painful this will be.
Force yourself to GAL the more you do, the more your mind will become free and no it is not easy or fast.
This is hard stuff.
The trick is to do what your being asked to do without expectations, you will not see changes happen, but they will.
And Ghost, I KNOW it hurts. It hurts to your core, nothing much worse.
That is why you have to push forward even without seeing change, push hard.
Hark, is that excuses flowing from your W? For a woman who doesn't want to discuss your R she certainly seems to be quite happy to keep blaming you.
Re-read some of the posts here and you'll see a pattern developing. Sandi2 gives some great advice. She can see you need real help here as you're stuck on trying to make your W happy. Listen to her. Just keep thinking 'why are you treating me like sh1t?'. Would you take it from anyone else? No, so, without being nasty, don't take it from her.
Huddy the problem is I am not ready and do not know when and if I will feel ready to stand up and put the house on the market ...I have concerns that if I do this then she could always at a later date turn around and say you made the decision and now I am homeless I need more of a settlement to give our children the lifestyle
Huddy also I am the kind of person that needs to be arround people I fear being alone I am not great looking I am overweight ...doing something about this balding and I am 46 years old I am [censored] when it comes to forming a new relationship or chatting to people.
Please do not get me wrong I just am not ready to date and do not want to be alone I know my w has left in spirit and mind but she is still arround the house I see her I am trying to detach need gal things to do
Huddy please be honest could you have said to your w right that's it I am going I have had enough .....we are selling the house ...could you have done this ?
Huddy the problem is I am not ready and do not know when and if I will feel ready to stand up and put the house on the market ...I have concerns that if I do this then she could always at a later date turn around and say you made the decision and now I am homeless I need more of a settlement to give our children the lifestyle
Yea, I remember those days. I told WW she could put the house on the market if she wished. She didn't lift a finger. Now my house is sold because of me, not her. She can say it was my decision all she wants, I really don't care. And neither will you one day because you know the truth.
Huddy also I am the kind of person that needs to be arround people I fear being alone I am not great looking I am overweight ...doing something about this balding and I am 46 years old I am [censored] when it comes to forming a new relationship or chatting to people.
That's subjective mate. You have no idea what other people, especially women think about you. You're starting the gym, and GALing. It'll happen when it's ready to happen. Get some new threads and new cologne. Get your hair cut.Concentrate on you because the better you feel about yourself the more attractive you will be, confidence is everything. To all Women (and your WW is a woman, remember that).
Please do not get me wrong I just am not ready to date and do not want to be alone I know my w has left in spirit and mind but she is still arround the house I see her I am trying to detach need gal things to do
But do you really crave company THAT much that you're willing to stay around someone that treats you so badly?
Huddy please be honest could you have said to your w right that's it I am going I have had enough .....we are selling the house ...could you have done this ?
I did.
Jp787 thank you I did read a lot of yo threads and I do see similar things
You have come a long way I see this with your posts
I have many fears I have listed them on past threes so do not want to go into to many but one that really stands out is....BEING ALONE.....I HATE AND FEAR THIS ....IT IS RIGHT UP THER ALMOST NUMBER ONE ON MY LIST
For me to push forward with the sale of this house will result in the above not sure how I get my head around this
I am not making excusess I want to gal and detach I really do but I iniw it is not going to come to me so going to book dancing lesson
BEING ALONE.....I HATE AND FEAR THIS
Mine also, at least it was
Once you can get your mind around this, that fear will subside.
How do you get your mind around this, a leap of faith in yourself and others who have been through this.
You will need to be OK with being by yourself at some point. This isn't normally so difficult, yet if feels impossible right now as you are in a tornado and being alone is the scariest thing possible.
GAL can be anything btw... Talk a walk, look at the stars, watch a leaf float down a river.
"I do not feel she is cake eating she does not ask me to do things for her I choose to do them"
My question is why are you doing this for her? Why does she deserve to have things done for her? Would you do nice things for your boss who just fired you? I wouldn't!
Like you I'm afraid to be on my own, but if you focus on yourself, you'll feel better therefore more confident, then you'll start to notice that friends/ strangers in the street will look at you differently because you will shine if confidence.
It's hard to let go of negative thoughts and being constantly focused on our situation, but what good is it doing to you? Could that energy be focused somewhere else?
Just my thoughts Gost.
She told me today that the reason we split was she had changed had become a very different person does love me but just not in the way I want her to love me
1) Why in the heck are you having a conversation in which this would be discussed?
2) Why in the heck are you believing what she is saying?
[quote=Ghost56]
BEING ALONE.....I HATE AND FEAR THIS
Mine also, at least it was
Once you can get your mind around this, that fear will subside.
How do you get your mind around this,
a leap of faith in yourself and others who have been through this.
You will need to be OK with being by yourself at some point. This isn't normally so difficult, yet if feels impossible right now as you are in a tornado and being alone is the scariest thing possible.
GAL can be anything btw... Talk a walk, look at the stars, watch a leaf float down a river. [/quote
The leap of faith is where I get stuck time will get me closer to this
Woah Ghost!
Let's take out time here. NDY has answered your points well, so, here's my take.
The house problem. Well, I actually brought up selling the house and she said 'OK'. Obviously, this was initially a scare tactic and it backfired. Hey ho, it's only bricks and I never really liked the house anyway. More important is my family. I'd rather we lived in a modest house, together, than be in a big house, apart.
I'm not great at being alone either, but that doesn't mean new people won't come in to my life and who says that W won't turn around at some point? This is where GAL etc. comes in to play.
I'm 43, also bald and not as overweight as I used to be (thanks to stress and five miles of walking every day). I was going bald when I met my W (thanks Dad for MPB) and she found it sexy. Your confidence is low, that'll recover. Let's face it, if you get to your mid forties and haven't gained weight or lost some hair you've been under the knife!
You've got a dance class planned, you're at the gym. That's the sign of confidence. Other people will notice that. Don't forget you've got to come back from the bottom as well!
Go ghost!
She told me today that the reason we split was she had changed had become a very different person does love me but just not in the way I want her to love me
1) Why in the heck are you having a conversation in which this would be discussed?
2) Why in the heck are you believing what she is saying?
Azzork the conversation just came about I do not know what to believe so will chose to believe nothing that comes out her mouth ...I guess I am still screwing u
I have to start moving forwards
She told me today that the reason we split was she had changed had become a very different person does love me but just not in the way I want her to love me
1) Why in the heck are you having a conversation in which this would be discussed?
2) Why in the heck are you believing what she is saying?
Azzork the conversation just came about I do not know what to believe so will chose to believe nothing that comes out her mouth ...I guess I am still screwing u
I have to start moving forwards
The conversation just....magically.....came about? Sorry, but Im skeptical. There is NOTHING. NOTHING. NOTHING. to be gaqined by having this conversation. It causes you pain AND it causes HER to cause you pain, which only makes her upset with YOU for putting her in that position. Im sure she didnt just walk up to you and say this...
As for the words, who KNOWS why shes actually doing this. Maybe even SHE doesnt know. So rehashing and beating yourself up over things shes saying just arent useful.
Its not about not screwing up. We all screw up sometimes. It's about learning and doing.
Im really glad that you joined a class - dance, cooking, tae kwon do, whatever. Just gad youre getting out and doing something new. Now go and be friendly and confident, even if you have seven left feet.
Ghost, I really like reading your posts because it reminds me of what not to do. Because I am tempted every day to have R talks, do nice things for my H, etc. Every day is a struggle, and when I see your posts it reminds me exactly of why not to do these things. And I mean this in the kindest of ways. You are doing better Ghost, it is very slow coming, but you are inching your way forward. I am looking forward to the day you make a giant leap forward.
I know you can do it Ghost!
Ghost. My W wants to be friends, even though she filed for D. It is not healthy for us. We will be used when convenient, and disregarded other times. Believe me, I have seen both sides of this just in the last 2 days. Pull back, detach and protect yourself.
It's the only option we have other than follow them around like a puppy and hope they throw us an occasional scrap.
Now, to follow my own advice!
G,
for the love of the almighty. Get your ass in gear. Have you seen a lawyer yet?
More important is my family. I'd rather we lived in a modest house, together, than be in a big house, apart.
What a brilliant quote. + 10 Huddy.
Hi G,
After the last posts I think you should rename the topic to Ghost Bashing Working You Over....
But seriously G, after all the advice given and your latest actions and comments I still cannot see any improvement from the first post. My real question is what do you expect to get out of here with the continuous posts about the same things over and over again?
Your new comments now are that you are scared of being alone. I get that, I think that most do as we have been there too. What do you plan on doing about it?
Another of your comments about the physical appearance. Ok, so you look like Danny devito, big deal. You mentioned you will be going to a gim or did so and then stopped. You think your wife will leave you because you are overweight and bald? Maybe.. but what are you going to do about it?
I am overweight, have less hair than I would like, and not really a brad pitt look alike. I got off my butt, started working out 5 days a week for 2 hours, improved my diet and bought stuff from a nutrition shop, changed my hair, changed my wardrobe (not necessarily buying a truck load of clothes, just not throwing on the first thing i laid my hands on), wear cologne everyday when I go out and began listening to modern day music which I also enjoy in the gim. Result is I am now a more confident and healthier person inside and out. Staying at home doesnt help, believe me been there done that. Going to the gim wont get your W back. It will get you back. BTW if you do go, dont be like those guys you see walking around with mismatched clothes and brown socks up to their calves and with little to no effort. Think rocky and eye of the tiger. You will really feel better. The trade off is that you also get to admire the ornithology to take your mind off things.
You handed over to her so much power and control you really are in the s**t.
Here we talk about GAL & Detach, etc. I noticed I started making progress when i started to live. Enjoy life with all my faults and imperfections. Accept who I am. How can I expect my W to accept me or respect me if I dont accept or respect myself? We are not Calvin Klein models but we are who we are and each have something unique to offer to make our partner happy. And whether it be the same partner or a new one, wear it with pride.
TBH I really am running out of things to say.
Dont defend your lack of action with validations, dont hide behind insecurities. At this minute with your present attitude what do you have new to offer to your W to make her change her mind? Since BD what have you been working on and developing that you can bring to the table? Hopes and dreams? promises you will change? She has already had that and she quit.
This is where i go back to an earlier post, I get the impression you dont want it bad enough. You want the easy way out. You have not one piece of something new to offer but want her to come back. Why should she? Would you?
I think i can understand your W and dont think it was the chores or kids, I think it was she needed someone to stand beside her not behind her. Someone to take over when she faltered. Maybe when she was sad she also had to be the shoulder to cry on. When she fell and looked up maybe she expected to see her saviour with the arm stretched out to pick her up. Maybe she just needed a man, her husband but had to end up being both.
Its a guess and Ill probably get b**ch slapped by the members but if I am right, what she is seeing now is the same guy who if she gives a chance will continue with his old ways because in all honesty G i have not seen from you any new ways from which to fall back from. Also, if wanting out is not motivation enough for you to change, what is?
G, I said it before.... stop posting and talking. Start doing.
Actions really do speak louder than words.
peace bro and dont hate me I have nothing but love for you.
Hi G,
After the last posts I think you should rename the topic to Ghost Bashing Working You Over....perhaps does feel like people have reached the end of their tether
But seriously G, after all the advice given and your latest actions and comments I still cannot see any improvement from the first post. My real question is what do you expect to get out of here with the continuous posts about the same things over and over again?
Your new comments now are that you are scared of being alone. I get that, I think that most do as we have been there too. What do you plan on doing about it? I do not know what do you think get a puppy
Another of your comments about the physical appearance. Ok, so you look like Danny devito, big deal. You mentioned you will be going to a gim or did so and then stopped. You think your wife will leave you because you are overweight and bald? Maybe.. but what are you going to do about it? She is not leaving me because of my looks I know this much yes I need to get back into making time for the gym worth going for me alone
I am overweight, have less hair than I would like, and not really a brad pitt look alike. I got off my butt, started working out 5 days a week for 2 hours, improved my diet and bought stuff from a nutrition shop, changed my hair, changed my wardrobe (not necessarily buying a truck load of clothes, just not throwing on the first thing i laid my hands on), wear cologne everyday when I go out and began listening to modern day music which I also enjoy in the gim. Result is I am now a more confident and healthier person inside and out. Staying at home doesnt help, believe me been there done that. Going to the gim wont get your W back. It will get you back. BTW if you do go, dont be like those guys you see walking around with mismatched clothes and brown socks up to their calves and with little to no effort. Think rocky and eye of the tiger. You will really feel better. The trade off is that you also get to admire the ornithology to take your mind off things.
You handed over to her so much power and control you really are in the s**t. Great so an idea what do do here
Here we talk about GAL & Detach, etc. I noticed I started making progress when i started to live. Enjoy life with all my faults and imperfections. Accept who I am. How can I expect my W to accept me or respect me if I dont accept or respect myself? We are not Calvin Klein models but we are who we are and each have something unique to offer to make our partner happy. And whether it be the same partner or a new one, wear it with pride.
TBH I really am running out of things to say.
Dont defend your lack of action with validations, dont hide behind insecurities. At this minute with your present attitude what do you have new to offer to your W to make her change her mind? Since BD what have you been working on and developing that you can bring to the table? Hopes and dreams? promises you will change? She has already had that and she quit. you are right I am not making enough changes will re evaluate tomorrow
N
This is where i go back to an earlier post, I get the impression you dont want it bad enough. You want the easy way out. You have not one piece of something new to offer but want her to come back. Why should she? Would you? Point taken
I think i can understand your W and dont think it was the chores or kids, I think it was she needed someone to stand beside her not behind her. Someone to take over when she faltered. Maybe when she was sad she also had to be the shoulder to cry on. When she fell and looked up maybe she expected to see her saviour with the arm stretched out to pick her up. Maybe she just needed a man, her husband but had to end up being both.
Its a guess and Ill probably get b**ch slapped by the members but if I am right, what she is seeing now is the same guy who if she gives a chance will continue with his old ways because in all honesty G i have not seen from you any new ways from which to fall back from. Also, if wanting out is not motivation enough for you to change, what is?
G, I said it before.... stop posting and talking. Start doing.
Actions really do speak louder than words.
peace bro and dont hate me I have nothing but love for you.
Max. What you said about Ghost's W needing someone to stand beside her, not behind her. Someone to take over when she faltered?
That describes what I always needed and didn't get from my H. Thank you. I never looked at it that way, but your words were perfect. My H has always hid behind me, or his mom. Now he is thoroughly hiding behind his mom and she is very happy to keep him there. Wow, you just blew me away a bit with your words.
Sorry to hijack Ghost's thread.
Max. What you said about Ghost's W needing someone to stand beside her, not behind her. Someone to take over when she faltered?
That describes what I always needed and didn't get from my H. Thank you. I never looked at it that way, but your words were perfect. My H has always hid behind me, or his mom. Now he is thoroughly hiding behind his mom and she is very happy to keep him there. Wow, you just blew me away a bit with your words.
Sorry to hijack Ghost's thread.
I find that interesting. I can see in my R that I stood in front and not beside. I was always trying to protect too much. Never let her be herself. Wanted to care so much where she never could do for herself. Crazy.
Max that does make some sence to me she did want equality I thought I gave her this I see I did not
She did end up doing the lions share of things and I was not there for her or would stand behind her
Now short of showing her my changes no point telling her I will continue to show her this is all I can do
I will continue to work on me reading that you went to the gym 5 times a week for 2 hrs at a time makes me VERY aware that perhaps I am not putting in enough effort ....to how important is she to me.
I know working out five times a week will not get my W back but going once a week is surly not going to get me any changes that I want. I am starting with the man i see in the mirror gonna make a change
Time to start changing ghost into ghost 2.0
Time to work on me
Have a great day everyone
Ghost
That's great Ghost. What we need from you is less of the 'going around in circles' talk replaced with some action....so you look like Danny Devito....he's a film star!!
No, seriously the sky is the limit. Anyone can become Ironman if that is what they choose to do. It's not for everyone, but finding physical activities you enjoy and becoming fitter is a good thing for you. Put your W to one side and do it for yourself and your kids....so you can run around with them and have a silly old time without getting winded.
Tell us some more about dancing and classes....this sounds like fun....and remember, please none of the going around in circles about your W (cheeseless) - just action from you.
Good luck xx
Hi G,
A couple of pointers...
So now you have some idea where you went wrong do something about it.
Each R is special and different but when I tried to be Mr. Poppins it backfired. However... when I just backed off a little and did things, silly things like putting the trash out without her telling me and other things I generally needed reminding about but still giving her control of the house to a point where I see she is happy with that share. That took notice.
When I looked after my appearance and started going out with friends on a friday night or weekend or even by myself just to the movies. That took notice to the point she suspected I was meeting someone. May have overdone it. I do not know how you dress but if you are Mr. Comfortable, try being Mr. Smart & Casual. If you have some hair and not completely bald do a Bruce Willis yipee kay yay and chop it off or do a moden haircut if you have some. Please do not tell me you are one of those that has a bald patch and tries to cover it with side hair. Covert operations are for military not haircuts. it looks ridiculous.
The only reason I go to the gim 5 days a week G is that I have been going consistently for many years. I enjoy working out and ever since I started travelling a lot there are periods where I take a break and then return with a stronger desire. Otherwise you can be a slave to it. The idea is to enjoy it. One final thing, take it easy, go about 3 times a week and give yourself 2-3 months before noticing any difference. This start up period will be hard as your body adjusts and you will feel more pain than gain. The positive side is that you will then feel much better. Stick it out. If you do like it then you can start looking at supplements (natural) to help you on your workouts but follow the advice of your doctor just in case. I take protein shakes, creatine, etc and it does help, especially when you are our age.
Just one final point G, helping around the house, going to the gym are not sure fire ways of getting your W back. I said this a few times and also read a post where sandi hinted why men think that being superdaddy and mr fix it will get their W back. As if that was the cause of her quitting..... or along those lines. I agree.
If you think it is down to being there in all its terms then dont concentrate on the kids, house and gim. I cannot express what she wants, I think the ladies in-da-house know exactly what the profile is of a MAN of the house/ a HUSBAND. The best way I can explain it in my own words would be someone who shows love and has their back.
You may laugh but after BD when I was at my most vulnerable and over romantic, i read the following quote and finally understood a great many things:
If you love a flower, don’t pick it.
If you do it dies and it ceases to be what you love.
So if you love a flower, let it be.
Love is not about possession.
Love is about appreciation
As each M & R is different so too will the meaning for each one.
NB: Please cut the "time to start changing"..."time to work on me"... etc.. please please cut the cheap salesman pitch you end your posts with. You said it over and over again with no action. JUST DO IT.
Remember its not you you have to convince nor us (which btw you are not doing hehe) but her.
Peace bro.
Hi Photoka,
I have read your posts and am sorry you have gone through all that.
I do not know if your H is a real mental case or a wimp.
I was in a similar situation years ago between my mother and my W. My mother had depressive issues and a character you had to navigate around but we grew close when my dad left. we had only each other, that creates a bond from mother/son to dependency because we literally depended on each other for survival. Emotional and financial. This is something unless you have lived it you cannot understand.
My W comes from a happy home with 3 brothers and a father she adores and looks up to. When she appeared on the scene it was a tense situation until I finally had to choose and stood by my wife.
My relationship with my parents went downhill especially with mom but I still think i did the right thing. My only regret was how I could have handled that better but hindsight can be a b***ch sometimes.
I enjoy reading your unfortunate posts because it reflects your honesty and integrity, it is just a shame we cannot chat in real time.
Take Care xx
Been a tough day for me still struggling with my emotions up and down like a yoyo
Booked in to start a dance class tomorrow as part of my gal and will be upping the time spent at the gym
Thank you maximus for your posts they do help
Trying to become the new ghost 2.0 but this is going to take some time
ghost
It'll take time, but you're making a effort with dance classes etc. You'll notice your confidence coming back and then you can press on.
Huddy the problem is I am not ready and do not know when and if I will feel ready to stand up and put the house on the market ...I have concerns that if I do this then she could always at a later date turn around and say you made the decision and now I am homeless I need more of a settlement to give our children the lifestyle
Huddy also I am the kind of person that needs to be arround people I fear being alone I am not great looking I am overweight ...doing something about this balding and I am 46 years old I am [censored] when it comes to forming a new relationship or chatting to people.
Please do not get me wrong I just am not ready to date and do not want to be alone I know my w has left in spirit and mind but she is still arround the house I see her I am trying to detach need gal things to do
This is not healthy. You are so dependent on your W that your fear of being homeless and dying alone is eating you alive. Stop thinking this stuff and do something about it. She pulled you away from your family, you have no friends, and don't like to socialize with people if she's not there to support you. (I just threw that last one in, but bet I wasn't far off).
You are still talking about the same stuff. When are you going to set some small goals about working on these things you fear? If you never start act on them, there will be no changes. No man should feel that his very life depends the shell of a W staying with him.
Scheduling dance classes is A+, now the next step is actually
attending.....and not allowing your W's words to keep you home. No excuses about the kids, housework, schoolwork, or how your W feels that day. Okay?
Have you done anything about seeing a lawyer, just to see where you stand financially, child support, etc.? Make it a goal. It doesn't hurt just to get legal advice, does it?
Where can you go to meet new people? Do you belong to any charity organizations, clubs, or Church? Do you ever volunteer to help elderly people, or some community project? Getting involved with other people and finding new activities can help some of your feelings of low self worth.
We are trying to give you solutions, Ghost. I asked if you could just go one week without talking about the house, and you never slowed down. Well, okay, you don't have to do it just b/c I suggested it, but we are racking our brains trying to help you with these issues. You have to at least try a few suggested solutions.
Max, thank you for your perspective. I know my H is in a hard place, its not like he was raised in a functional home and then dropped into this sitch. His mother knows how to manipulate him and she is "winning" and his father is in on it too. Its an all out war against me, but I am not fighting. I do not think it is easy on H, and I believe just as it is with affairs, the wayward spouse has to somehow justify his/her actions by demonizing the spouse. I think H started doing that with his EA and then when his parents got wind of it, it was their opportunity to finally get their way in to H's head.
My S11 now cries hysterically every time my D walks into the room because she is "teasing him." Yes, she is mean. But he cries even if he just sees her through the window or hears her voice. She is teasing less, and he is crying more. I believe the dynamic doesn't have to do with her at all, but that he does not have a positive male role model for handling his emotions.
It is all such a mess.
And Ghost, sorry to hijack your thread. I am excited for you for your dance lessons? What kind of dance? I would love to take a "social" dance class as I look like some kind of crazed jogger or lunatic while attempting to dance at weddings and such.
Also Ghost, maybe set some goals at the gym?
Bench press 80? Then 90? Specific measurable goals so you can track your progress. And yes, buy a couple of updated gym clothes and look the part.
Sandi2 You have no idea how grateful I am for your help I really am right now I know I am spiralling right now I think I'm in trouble
I realise that my wife is gone I have a trouble accepting it but I do realise this is the case being at home with her in the house I don't know how long I can go on for this I do not want to be the one to clear everything in the house I do not want to be the one to start the divorce proceedings I am honestly lost
When. I have spoken to my wife about selling the house and she says we will deal with that when and if we have to sell it just makes me have a sliver of hope but I know this is wrong
I am trying my best to detach I'm trying my best to not think about a life without her doing every day and her not being there Christmas Easter school holidays bringing my daughter up alone but seeing my wife who will then be by ex w on a daily basis.
I so want to try and convince her that this is wrong but I know that is wrong [censored] I don't know what to do
I just don't know I feel lost and I'm going to be alone and I have to work on myself I must I have to go right now I'm going to the gym
Sandi2 thank you
Ghost
Sandi2
Yes I have seen a l today it was a great help covered a lot of the details I felt reassured
I just do not want to be the one to file if I was told this was my only chance to try to save the marriage then what would I do I do not know
You are still talking about the same stuff. When are you going to set some small goals about working on these things you fear? If you never start and act on them, there will be no changes.
This.
This.
This.
Who cares about EASTER? Thats a LIFETIME away.
What you should care about is getting to the dance class. Is getting to the gym. Is spending time with your kids.
ITS. TIME. TO. DO.
Azzork
I went to the gym pushed myself hard and felt good at the end
Tomorrow is dance class never done this before and I really do have two left feet so will be interesting.
Going to push myself right outside my comfort zone,
Azzork I have a fear of being alone can you help me with a small goal to start working in this fear
Thanks
Ghost
Well done that man!
GAL ghost. That's how you meet people. Join a club or something like that.
Hi Ghost, perhaps a way to start working on the fear is to do some stuff in your own company and get to know yourself more?
People have posted on the forum before about how worried they were about life after separation. But if you go about it the right way, it can be pretty nice. I can recall one guy posting that he feared he would be stuck alone in a horrid flat, tearful and lonely. But actually, he lives in a nice place, enjoys cooking for himself, has a good social life, some new chums and life is good. So, I guess what I want to say is - you being alone - if that's how things turn out - will be what you make it. That is all within your gift.
For me, living alone has meant many new things. A nice flat, being closer to my parents, new colleagues, a new yoga class, some new female friends, some volunteering, a new aqua class and book club, a new social group....It is different and takes some adjustment, but there are many good things that life has to offer for someone who has separated from their spouse.
Hope this helps Ghost. You are still spinning sometimes, but I think you are making steady progress despite the spins - you'll get there my friend xx
Hi G,
Good to see you are wisening up and getting out.
A few tips about the gim..
- Watch what you wear please remember the 80's are over.
- don't push yourself too hard, let your body adjust and get used to exercise.
- be strict on techniques, get the movement right before loading weights on.
- Work under the supervision of an instructor
- if in doubt do more cardio, no matter how much muscle you pile up it will not be seen under flab.
-Watch what you eat now. Don't think that because you are exercising you can be more generous. NO.
Next step... recommendation from a female friend... change your hairstyle to something more trendy. These are picked up on really quickly. If she says something nice say thanks and leave it at that. No reasons or explanations. You just felt like it.
next step.. change your aftershave.. i always prefer chanel but hey each person's taste is different.
Next step..buy long boxers. If you are overweight chances are you have wide legs and youll see what I mean after an hour on the treadmill.
Remember it is not about pushing too hard too soon. You need to build up, to enjoy the new activites and get used to them.
If you keep this up you will have to change your name to Action man...:)
Azzork
I went to the gym pushed myself hard and felt good at the end
Tomorrow is dance class never done this before and I really do have two left feet so will be interesting.
Going to push myself right outside my comfort zone,
Azzork I have a fear of being alone can you help me with a small goal to start working in this fear
Thanks
Ghost
My guess is that your fear of being alone is in a personal level and not related to parenting, yes? If so - for the next month, my thoughts:
- go out to dinner alone twice. Take a book. Sit for at least 60 minutes at the table.
- go to the movies alone
- do something for you. A massage, a haircut, buy a new shirt. Whatever. Don't tell your W.
- buy some new aftershave/cologne/hairspray/whatever. Wear it any time you leave the house.
- lose 2 kilos. Healthily.
- buy a present for each child. Spend no more than 5 pounds each. Don't say why.
- go to 2 different meetup-type activities. Introduce uourself to everyone there (or at least 10 people). Shake their hand.
- arrange one extra meeting with someone you met at one of these groups. And I don't mean returning to the same meetup the next week/month.
How about those? Can you do that in a month?
My guess is that your fear of being alone is in a personal level and not related to parenting, yes? If so - for the next month, my thoughts:
Do you know I really do not know yes I would say a personal level I guess my M has meant that I have always had someone else to make decisions with when I am on my own I will have to make the decisions myself no conferring I feel I can look after the kids just fine my eldest daughter and I are not very close so there is every possibility that she will not want to stay at my house often if at all ....my two boys do not really get on that well together they can but often they fight and then the baby toddler she is great fun to be arround
- go out to dinner alone twice. Take a book. Sit for at least 60 minutes at the table.
- go to the movies alone
- do something for you. A massage, a haircut, buy a new shirt. Whatever. Don't tell your W.
- buy some new aftershave/cologne/hairspray/whatever. Wear it any time you leave the house.
- lose 2 kilos. Healthily.
- buy a present for each child. Spend no more than 5 pounds each. Don't say why.
- go to 2 different meetup-type activities. Introduce uourself to everyone there (or at least 10 people). Shake their hand.
- arrange one extra meeting with someone you met at one of these groups. And I don't mean returning to the same meetup the next week/month.
How about those? Can you do that in a month? [/quote]
I see no reason why I cannot do all of the above
I wear my hair cut as a number one all over it was thinning and it looks much better short rather than fluffy
Took some legal advice with a Divorce L was give a free hour consultation and so long as I am going for shared custody then should be fine need to listen to meeting again recorded it and take some notes
Today it is dancing class ...never done the cha cha so will see he this goes
I want to take ballroom dance class too!! How is it?
Ghost has inspired me... I kinda wanna take a dance class as too.... that would take some guts for me haha
I have not done it yet ...I will let you know How it goes tonight
Ok Please stay with me on this I feel this is VERY IMPORTANT and I have to get this off my chest ....
i love all my children all very much but over the years without question I have been closer to my eldest son ....I believe this was because when I was a child I did not get the love I wanted from my father he was always closer to my sister and I built resentment towards her .....when I was growing up my father did so little for me and did not give me the love that I wanted and desired, perhaps because of this I wanted to make sure that I was close to my son.
Because of the amount of time that I spent with my son doing his activities my wife would spend more time with my daughter doing hers...she loved her horses and I bought my daughter a horse when she was 13 ....so just as I was close to my son my wife became very close to our daughter .....This has led to my eldest daughter having resentment towards my eldest son and towards me she has said that I love him more than her.
I thought that it was just siblings fighting and to a degree it probably was but it was probably spurned on by my daughters upset and the fact she felt unloved by me.
Three years ago things were bad between my W and I and we nearly broke up my children were fighting a lot my W and I were arguing things were bad I spoke to my two eldest children and said that we all have to try to make mummy happy we all had get along with each other pull together to keep our family together.
My eldest daughter recently told me in a heated argument that I had blamed her and said that I had told her it was her fault that mummy and daddy had nearly split up. I know I did not say anythng of the kind but this is what she firmly believes I had said and because of this she she built up even more resentment towards me.
About a year later My daughter went through a stage of cutting herself only very lightly ..a lot of her friends were also doing this and I thought at the time this was because she was also being bullied at school or following on with her friends but I now accept that this was in part because of how she was feeling towards me and I know she blames me .
Since my w and I separating my eldest daughter who is now nearly 17 has started to show more and more disrespect towards to me I knew that me were not close but I feel her seeing mummy leaving me as her awaking to be able to let out her anger and upset....and this has been not just to me by being rude and disrespectful to me but also to my son with her attitude towards him.
So I have a W that wants to leave me possibly in part from the above and I have a daughter who is upset and will probably want very little towards me.
Over the years I have been there for my children and I have been there for my W I have provided for them by working hard but I did not give enough of 'MY time to them ..my W has pointed out to me that she feels I did do enough for my son but I did not do enough for my other children or for her.
So when I thought the marriage broke down because of my lack of doing the house work and being there for my W of an evening showing her my love I believe now it had more to do with the above.
I do not know how I can make any of this any better I try to spend time with my daughter but she feels anger and resentment to me and she wants little to do with me ...I do not feel the answer is to buy her love give her what she wants ...I would do this but I do not think it will bring her closer to me.
One of the reasons that I want to keep us all together in the house is to try to make things better with my W and I realise this is going to be extremely difficult to do and I now also realise that I have a very sad and upset daughter that I also would love to build a relationship with but I do not know if this will be possible either.
To write this has taken me nearly 1 1/2 hrs trying to put this into some order
I tried to be a good dad and husband but I have got things wrong and I do not know how to make things any better
Ghost
I guess I just want to make things better I am not sure what better is but when I have said to my W a month or two ago that I want to make things better she just says this is as good as it gets if we are getting along why do we need to change anything we are doing this for our children as long as they see us happy then that is all that matters
Please read the post before this one ^^^^^^^^ I feel it is very important thank you
Three years ago things were bad between my W and I and we nearly broke up my children were fighting a lot my W and I were arguing things were bad I spoke to my two eldest children and said that we all have to try to make mummy happy we all had get along with each other pull together to keep our family together.
One of the reasons that I want to keep us all together in the house is to try to make things better with my W and I realise this is going to be extremely difficult to do and I now also realise that I have a very sad and upset daughter that I also would love to build a relationship with but I do not know if this will be possible either.
OMG, Ghost. Do you not see it? You made the kids believe that it's all about making mummy happy!
I think the reason you gave for not being close to your 17 yr old daughter is pathetic. You took your childhood resentment toward your sister and took it out on your child. Then you saw history repeating itself between your daughter and son. Guess you did not learn from it.
Girls need their father! A girl's relationship with her father is so important. If my father had said those words to me, I would think he didn't care about my feelings at all. He only cared about making mummy happy.
There use to be a man who posted about his awkward R with his D. B/c he saw the D and his W spending more time together, he just assumed that once they divorced he would never see his D very much. He was just going to resign to live a lonely life. We continued talking with him, and long story short......his D was starving for his one on one attention. The son he was so close to, married and had little time for dad.
Why can you feel "normal" toward the baby girl, yet you basically rejected the oldest girl? Yes, I'm sure she must have some serious issues, if she's cutting herself. Has she been in therapy?
I am really sad to hear about this situation. I also couldn't help to wonder why you decided to talk about it now. I have noticed that when you get a couple of posts trying to cheer you on.......it's almost as if you go to the closet to find something else to pull out. So what is it, Ghost? What was the real reason for sharing this about your daughter?
Hi G,
I fully agree with Sandi.
Everytime we seem to be helping you then turn around and pull a gremlin out of the hat.
Your incessant desire to make your W happy, not tread on her shoes, worry about her thoughts has cost you your self respect, her respect for you and those of your children.
The unlimited power you gave her she has not administered well and now you are paying the consequences.
Until you get your children's respect back I really see it complicated.
I had problems with my own S and I first had to earn his respect, remind him who i was. Not xxx but dad. What I stood for and yes I messed up but acknoweldged it and was going to change that. Children are forgiving. A wife can be an EX. A child is forever.
One problem you do have is to learn how to talk to your family. I think the way you say things is as important as what you say.
With all of these issues i am really not surprised your W wants out.
You gave her unlimited power, never stood your ground, she messed up, you didnt help and now she sees a broken jigsaw on the floor and doesnt know where to start on her own. Result, say sc**w it and want out.
You have to pick up the pieces only know they are not cardboard but glass and you have to be very delicate which judging by your constant desire to do things your way and then say mea culpa doesnt help.
I dont think you have reached the point of no return but you do have your work cut out. A LOT of it.
A piece of advice... honesty doesnt work with a WAS but it may work with children as does actions.
Oh and one final point... you mentioned twice about free lawyer charges and cheap cost of divorce yet you buy your daughter a pony? i dont get why you mention this fact. If I had the money to spend on a pony I would get the best lawyer to help solve this and not worry about freebies.
peace bro
Three years ago things were bad between my W and I and we nearly broke up my children were fighting a lot my W and I were arguing things were bad I spoke to my two eldest children and said that we all have to try to make mummy happy we all had get along with each other pull together to keep our family together.
One of the reasons that I want to keep us all together in the house is to try to make things better with my W and I realise this is going to be extremely difficult to do and I now also realise that I have a very sad and upset daughter that I also would love to build a relationship with but I do not know if this will be possible either.
OMG, Ghost. Do you not see it? You made the kids believe that it's all about making mummy happy!
I felt it was all about making everyone happy and I did not see that what had happend to me as a child was affecting my Actions towards my daughter I do lover her so very much I think the reason you gave for not being close to your 17 yr old daughter is pathetic. You took your childhood resentment toward your sister and took it out on your child. Then you saw history repeating itself between your daughter and son. Guess you did not learn from it.
No I did not see what was happening I was stupid and selfish I guess Girls need their father! A girl's relationship with her father is so important. If my father had said those words to me, I would think he didn't care about my feelings at all. He only cared about making mummy happy.
There use to be a man who posted about his awkward R with his D. B/c he saw the D and his W spending more time together, he just assumed that once they divorced he would never see his D very much. He was just going to resign to live a lonely life. We continued talking with him, and long story short......his D was starving for his one on one attention. The son he was so close to, married and had little time for dad.
Why can you feel "normal" toward the baby girl, yet you basically rejected the oldest girl? Yes, I'm sure she must have some serious issues, if she's cutting herself. Has she been in therapy?
She,did,have some therapy sessions I do. Not know if enough was done at the time I know I have screwed up so badly I thought all this was about me and my W which is why I did not mention this at the time it was bought to my attention from my councillor I did buy her the horse and spend time taking her to horse shows and to the stables but once again I find my self saying I did not do enough with her I put my attention to my son I am really sad to hear about this situation. I also couldn't help to wonder why you decided to talk about it now. I have noticed that when you get a couple of posts trying to cheer you on.......it's almost as if you go to the closet to find something else to pull out. So what is it, Ghost? What was the real reason for sharing this about your daughter?
The reason I shared this was because I have noticed more that my daughter is pulling away from me i am seeing her anger I want to talk to her To realise that I do love her and always have I have not shown it in the right way my W spent more time with her and I spent more time with my son it was just the way that we both did things. I am sure my W did tell me I was not spending enough time with daughter I selfishly did not lIseenI have many bridges to try and build that may or may not be able to be fixed all I can do is try to become a better dad to my children ALL OF THEM
I would never ever ever want my dad to give up on me. Teenagers will test their parents love. Just because she says things that are disrespectful does not mean she wants you to stop trying. But you also have to give her time (lots of time ) and space to heal. Keep showing her, through actions (but maybe also through words if that is her love language) that you love her dearly and want to be a good dad. With NO expectations in return. She may yell you to bugger off 100 times in a row. That does not mean she really wants you to. Love her unconditionally. Be the stable grownup that she needs.
And ghost, please please find some professional help for your self defeating thoughts and anxiety. I've been there. I know how impossible things can feel. But it may be the most important GAL activity you do.
I feel like you are in a dynamic here where you keep spinning in circles, folks use a stern tone and say you are not listening, and that only fuels your low self-image, as if we are proving your ideas about yourself.
But it is frustrating to see someone who is not willing to help himself. Be kind to yourself by being willing to get some professional outside help. Things CAN change for you if you are willing to give it a go.
Good luck.
Hi Ghost, your D is young and all is not lost. I agree that every girl needs her Dad. My Dad drives me a bit nuts sometimes, but equally there have been important times he has been there for me no questions asked.
This is an area for you to think about in terms of goals. Things won't turn overnight, but what can you do this month to be there more for your D. Maybe don't even start with the big things, just the smaller ones. Is there anything do you guys do together that you could extend a little and include some chat? Does your W take your D regularly to something, which you could offer to do? Does your D do something that you could go and watch?
If you think about what you naturally do with your older S, can you think about building in such activities with your D? As SS got older I found he was interested in stuff that didn't interest me much and it felt harder to bond with him. What I can recall saying to myself is - I'll offer him at least 20 mins a day of pure attention. So, if he was doing something (even if it didn't really interest me) I would join him for at least 20 mins. Now, that often extended, but it was a minimum.
I think once brigdes are built a little more, you can move onto some larger stuff. Telling your D you love her, having a shared interest you do together and so on.
I agree with others that she may not offer the response you hope for initially, and I think gentle perseverence is called for. Also, I think it is important to see that your D is an entirely separate person to your W. Even if they are close, your D is different.
Good luck with things xx
Thank you ....I know they are diffentent and I know I have let them both down for now my daughter is more important than sorting my m both mean everything to me but one step at a time
Thank you
Ghost
Ghost, my H and D barely speak, and when they do it is so awful- all they do is fight and they are both so stressed about it. My H has given up on her, this is what he was saying pre-BD, kept saying "I hate her, I can't live with her" and still now, he just says all the wrong things and does not listen to her. He has given up on her, and out of all the things wrong between us, that is the one thing I don't know that I can forgive.
What can you do today to improve things with your D? That is the R you should be working towards saving, not your M right now. Talk to her. Maybe start small and work your way up. Ask her about her horse. Can you go to a family therapist with her? She needs her dad!
I would never give up on my daughter
No sure she would go to family therapist I will ask her
I will be the man that hopefully walks her down the Isle when she gets married and if not then I will be there with the camera recording her special day
It will take time to build bridges yes I will do things with her and her horse I do do this already I guess I am feeling very low from the m breakdown and I am taking the blame for everything and anything at the moment
Hi G
Concentrate on your D now but without losing track on your S
I would suggest being open and honest with her. In my case I told my S (22 yrs old now) I HAD messed up and was sorry and that whether or not he would want me in his life, he was in mine and was there to stay. Later on with time he understood some of my actions back then and realized I was not as bad as I was made out to be and his mon was not as good as she made out to be. I let him learn that by himself.
I remember saying we are not handed a book on how to be parents but rather write our own chapters for each child and DO get it wrong lots of times. I then ended by saying that the same determination he has to keep me out I will have to continue where I left off.
I followed all this with actions, some direct, some behind the scenes. He could always turn me down but at least he knew the truth.
With myself i found that after an aopolgy a rejection was more about me needing my space to handle something, to come to terms with it and forgive than about not wanting the person close to me keeping the distance.
When my own dad walked out on us it wasnt quiet and it hurt like h**l. The worst part was he did all these things we talk about, GAL, detaching, etc from my mom but also from me. I lost my role model. The person I wanted to be like. I did not understand what was happening just that he wasnt home but was happy when I was with him. The trouble is kids grow up.
Sadly he went from daddy to dad to father.
Even then no one my mother dated was good enough. He was a selfish creep that was still on that damn pedestal.
My mother's happiness went from depending on my father to mine. She was never in control of her life. (This is why I 2x4 you G to GAL and not let your hapiness depend on anyone else but you).
I found myself barely a teenager struggling with a wrecked home, in the middle of exams, still finding out who I was and now having to take over his job. He was a crap dad in all honesty, then and even later on. We all have this notion that if life treats us rough we always have our parents home to fall back on. In a way I did but it wasnt a sanctuary.
My mom was in no way ready to handle a teenage son and i messed up a few good years of my life with a blank chque discipline wise.
My father had my respect and was a belt and buckle man. She couldnt compete. She had enough with her 2 jobs to make ends meet and dragging me around until i could be independant.
He died a few years ago in a country far far away. In the end I forgave him for coming back and looking after my mom during her final years. He earned that much respect from me but not my love.
The reason G for bringing this up is that to this day if he had given me a hug, treated me like a son instead of a "man" I would have forgiven him and loved him. That was over 33 years ago. So you see ... a childs love has no limits.
He was a womanizer that neglected his W and his S and though patched things up towards the end I made the same mistakes in my life.
I was lucky though, I have an understanding son and a W that always reminded me when I messed up. Your D will be understanding, you just need to talk her language and next time listen to your W. I think that if she is a good mother and does see change in you she will open up and help you become a better dad.
Just remember.... it does NOT mean it will affect or improve your M in any way. That is another battle, but improving your R with your kids never hurt a M.
You do not learn from others mistakes but from your own.
Work on your D, work on yourself, regain that part of your family and maybe, just maybe along the way you will find an unexpected travelling companion you gave up hope on ready to complete the rest of the journey with you.
.... And no its not taken from the hobbit
peace bro.
I would never give up on my daughter
I will be the man that hopefully walks her down the Isle when she gets married and if not then I will be there with the camera recording her special day
G... A daughter needs her dad to walk her down the aisle. F**k that about recording her special day. You have to be THE special man in in her life as your W that special woman.
That is not an option, that is a goal. Backaway from this fight and you lose all respect and dignity you ever had.
These are the comments that really irritate me G. You reflect no character, passion, c*j*nes (spanish). FFS G manup, stamp your foot and take the bull by horns. And if you cant reach because you are short then by its nuts but start showing who you are and you will take no s**t.