Really sorry. A very tough blow.
Still, you haven't failed. Not even yet to save your marriage. I'm not saying it looks good, but it's still not final, and 11th hour changes of heart happen (partly the deal doesn't look so good when they aren't getting the fantasy of what they think the arrangement will be). And, as you say, you can stand up and look the kids in the eye in the end. You have also become a better parent, and DBing is important to have as good a R as possible w/ an XW when co-parenting is involved. And who knows where that leads? Neither of you do. Still, no getting away from the pain of it all.
Thanks A. I realize that there is still time. This process can take several months to a year.
I found it so fitting what you wrote about the agreement and how there is a fantasy vs reality to it.
So I was served today with the agreement drawn up by my wife and her attorney. Needless to say I will NOT be signing it and it will be going to my attorney for essentially a total revision. Here is a dose of fantasy from her agreement:
She wants to waive the use of the alimony and child support calculation system in our state. I was laid off from professional work 4 years ago (at which time I made 75,000 per year). For the last 4 years I work two cash based seasonal positions. One in the Spring and Summer and another in the Fall and Winter. I make about 38,000 per year between these two jobs. Since they are cash based we have been "liberal" in our JOINT tax filing these last four years. So her attorney wants to treat the situation as if I am unemployed (which I am not) because if they utilized the alimony and child support system based off of what we have claimed the amount would be ridiculously low. So her proposal is to "waive" alimony and ask for $350 per week in child support (which is almost half of what I make). They are basing this on impuning an income of $75,000 per year on me (which I have not earned in four years) and an income of $0 for my wife (which is false because she provides daycare for my cousin's daughter and earns $500 per month from it). My approach from my end with my attorney has been utilizing what I actually make (not the lower amount that has been claimed) and using the state's system to determine a fair amount of alimony / child support based on reality. This would also mean that income would be impuned upon my Wife since the child support is a duel responsibility and she will have to GET A JOB (oh the horror). So that is a fantasy. I'm not just going to agree to give her half of the money I make based off of false numbers. That is unfair and is just not how the system works in our state.
She wants joint legal custody of our two children (which is fine) but wants sole physical custody of them (which is not fine). Meaning she wants them to live with her full time. I will be limited to a visitation schedule of "no less than 6 hours per week" (pretty low minimum if you ask me). And the kicker: She gets 365 overnights and I get ZERO.
She wants life insurance policies on both of us. This is a good idea. However, she want the trustee of my policy to be her and the trustee of her policy to be her mother. So if I die, she gets $250,000 for the children that she can utilize as she sees fit for their needs. That part I have no problem with. BUT, if she dies, her $150,000 policy for our children goes to her......MOTHER? So what you are telling me is that if my wife dies, my mother-in-law gets to decide what happens to the life insurance money for my children? Yeah, not happening.
Vehicles: We have a crappy car (in her name that is paid off) that I drive and a good car (in my name) that she drives. She wants me to finish paying off the car in my name while she continues to drive it and then.....switch titles so I can "keep" the crap box and she can keep the good car. Not happening. We BOTH need safe and reliable vehicles for the children. So something different needs to happen here.
So basically, her agreement is for me to give her half of what I earn on less than $40,000 per year, give her my car and keep the clunker no questions asked, kids live with her and I get no overnights and she just goes about her life as a stay at home mom. Babysitting during the day and maybe working a part time job in the evenings while I "watch the kids".
I have been educated by my attorney about how all of this really works and I have to admit that I feel badly for my wife because the reality of how all of these issues will end up will be nothing like what is drawn up in that agreement.
So yeah, the fantasy and the reality do not match.
Link to all threads
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=37073
Hi BeClem. As you say, what's being proposed doesn't sound like a great outcome for you. No guarantees of even having your kids stay with you overnight even. I can see why you want to counter this.
The only comment I would make is that what's being proposed may not be your W's fantasy entirely. I think L's encourage people to 'go for' absolutely everything they want in the first instance - then it gets 'whittled down' to something more acceptable to both parties.
In a sensible world, the 'first draft' would be much more realistic....but it doesn't seem to work like this. Cynical me says it's all about L's making money. The further from acceptable the agreement is, the more legal to-ing and fro-ing there is likely to be...
Good luck with things my friend - you're doing really well xx
The only peace I have right now is knowing that one day, when my little boy and little girl are grown, I will be able to look them in the eyes and tell them I did all that I could to keep us together. Did I make mistakes? Yes. Were my efforts perfect? No. But I fought a good fight for noble reasons.
If you give up now, have you done all you could?
I hope that now you will learn to work SMARTER instead of HARDER.
But I do feel like I failed them because my efforts did not produce the intended results. I know we talk about how DBing is about us. But really we all come here with the same goal: to save our marriages and our families.
Yes, we all COME here to save our families. But we can't control our spouses. So no matter how much we try and how hard we fight, sometimes there's nothing that can be done. That doesn't make you or your efforts a failure.
In that. I have failed. But I can always take solice in the fact that I didn't give up and did the best I could.
DBing is a LONG process and you're just getting started. Don't give up now - you're just about to get to the good stuff, I think.
BEC,
Well, it does sound like she wants the entire cake to eat for herself. The first draft is always "going for the gold", so it's time to sit down and figure out what can work for you, especially since you are the one working two jobs.
One thing that really stood out for me is the life insurance policies. Before putting her name as beneficiary on your policy, I would ask about whether you can name your children as the beneficiaries, i.e., 50/50 instead of your wife. The reason I mention is that there are times when a wife is named as the beneficiary and when a death occurs, the children do not see the money...the parent does ensure that the children receive it. So, to make it easy for you and your children, name them, not your wife. Notice how your wife isn't putting you as the beneficiary on her proposed policy? That should tell you something about where her mind is right now.
As for the vehicle in your name, well...since you are moving forward w/the divorce, I think it's time she gets her crappy car back since it's in her name and you reclaim your car, the one that you've been paying on. No court of law will stop you from repossessing your car. Whatever you do, don't agree to what she is suggesting about the cars because she's trying to get everything she can from you right now. She's hoping that you feel so low, miserable and guilty that she can put everything on the line and you'll agree w/her terms. I also think that her friend, family and the lawyer are whispering in her ear to take you to the cleaners and/or clean your clock. Don't fall for this old trick. Besides, she must have some money if she's filed and wants a life insurance policy. So, she can come up w/some money for a nicer car, even if it's a leased one. Trust me, she got money or someone is giving her funds to file, etc.
Please do not allow your heart to dictate the terms of your agreement. This is a business partnership that has gone south. Trust me, if the shoe was on the other foot, she wouldn't be so generous towards you. They want everything they can get and leave us w/a tin cup in our hands begging for money and do not care if we have a roof over our heads. It's all about "me, me and more me". Time to think about YOU for a change and what you need to live on comfortably and take care of your kids.
I know it is galling, and it has to hurt to have the person you loved and committed to sue you and be so selfish with little regard for you or the kids.
Just so you are forearmed if the W makes the case that moving the kids back and forth wont be good for them, there was a recent Swedish study that took up this question, and showed the benefits of joint custody out weighed the moving. Basically, they looked at psychosomatic (emotional-physical) symptoms of teenagers in various forms of family arrangements. Of course the kids in nuclear families had the fewest symptoms. They were being asked by clinicians who had been worrying about the affect of the massive rise in joint custody over the last two decades, so the assumption was that joint custody kids would fare the worst. In fact joint custody kids showed lower symptoms than the sole custody w/ visitation kids. Their speculation was that having closer contact with both parents and the support networks both parents' friends and family provided outweighed the impact of moving back and forth between households. Here is an article on the study:
Medical News Today ArticleI can't remember if your wife has nixed the idea of mediation, but having a mediator with some counseling training is much less adversarial and likely to produce better R outcomes whether the M fails or not. If she as at all receptive to doing what is best for the kids, having a better co-parenting relationship should be her aim. It may not be, but it is worth pushing for. And if she says that she has already filed, there is nothing that says she can't withdraw the petition to try mediation, and if that fails re-file with something more like an agreement focusing instead on the intractable issues that a judge will decide.
Sorry you are having to go through this.
Job,
Don't worry. I am not going to agree to ANY of it.
My heart is broken. Yes. But I am not allowing that to cloud my better judgement.
Just to clarify in the insurance policies. She would not be the beneficiary. She would be the trustee. The children would be the beneficiaries. The issue I have with the policies is that on her end, if she passes away, she wants her mother to be the trustee for her policy money. Which is in a word ridiculous. If she is the trustee in my policy than I must be the trustee on hers because if she passes, the children become my sole responsibility and as their father and as a responsible and good parent I have the right to determine what is best for my children. Not their grandmother on my wife's side. It's moronic.
I have a lot running through my mind about how to handle this.
One thing is how do I handle the interim: the time between now and the d being final. Do I be nice and allow her to stay in the home and continue with the vehicle situation until the d is final. Or do I go the opposite direction and move home and take the house and the car back?
If I do the hardline stance, it will impact my children because as I have stated before, she will take the children out of the home and leave.
BEC,
I would suggest that you discuss the moving back home and the car situation w/your lawyer. Generally, once the clock starts ticking on divorce actions, this is usually when things need to be taken care of in the way of negotiating on settlement issues.
When my d went through I had to show who paid for the cars. Since I made all the payments ex kept the new car and the payments. I kept the car that was paid for. I am not sure why you are even discussing life insurance with her. You can get your own and put the kids as beneficiaries. At this time I wouldnt do anything without talking to your L. What the WAS think will happen never does. Mine was very shocked and angry at the outcome. She threatened to take my RC planes. But most of them were bought as presents and she couldnt. On the other hand she has a horse worth 25k which I could have asked for half. But didnt. Tough stuff my friend.
BEC
Caught up a bit here. Re-Read Jobs posts ... I agree with them completely here. And I also like the point asitis made about mediation ... especially when they do provide some support on co-parenting, something I think you both would benefit from, and its cheaper. Its the route W and I opted for ... twice though it never came to be.
Do I be nice and allow her to stay in the home and continue with the vehicle situation until the d is final. Or do I go the opposite direction and move home and take the house and the car back?
Up to this point in your sitch it seems to me you have been playing the passive/aggressive .... by that I mean on the surface you were paying the bills, doing things around the house in order to still have some sense of control then when you felt helpless you would press, stalk, push the issues.
At this point in the game, If it were me ... I might play a bit more on the hardball side of things. Your W has already set the tone here and basically submitted a total BS agreement like she will get it all here. Regardless of saving your M or not its time to face this head on, protect your kids and yourself. I hit that point and told the lawyers I would most likely have agreed to whatever W wanted had it not been for S, however I would not loose one day of custody nor one dollar for his sake .. anything I were to give up would hurt him 50% of the time and I was not about to give an inch.
Again .. this is your W's choice and she will have to feel the consequences ... up to now, she has had it made, you have enabled her ... so why would she not want to continue calling all the shots as she has been this whole time?
Just wanted to add, the threat on custody is most likely the L's suggestion of a negotiating chip. You'll be so anxious to get more custody, you'll give away on the financial side. It is a very crass and callous thing to use your kids as a kind of negotiating black mail.
You need to do what you can w/ your L to make it so there is no way the courts would award anything like her custody arrangement, then you can not be black mailed. You just laugh and say that is a non-starter, so let's just dispense with the farce: it will be joint custody. Now let's start negotiating on the financial side.
So, first stop is the L's to figure out how to take that bargaining chip back of the table whether she likes it or not. She may agree to mediation at that point, once she sees that this is going to be a messy give and take with a hostile party whose pissed that she pulled this crap.
Then you need to decide if you really want someone who would agree to use their kids this way.
So my Wife and I had had a discussion last week about splitting finances and her getting a job etc.
So I had the kids for a sleepover last night and have them again for tonight.
She's out looking for a job right now. I get a text from her that says:
"Job hunting sure is different than it was 10 years ago. Most of these places ask if I have already applied online. And I feel old"
I haven't responded. I don't even know what to say if I did.
I feel like saying: Yeah no crap it's different. And it's hard. And the job market and the economy stink.
But that is between you guys and me. I will not say that.
There are many times where wanted to throw a truth some reality back.
Just keep on the listen & validate. You want her to think boy, BEClem sure is different than he was 10 years ago, and I like it.
I've used this forum to say what I really wanted but couldn't quite a few times.
Good job BE! I have both this forum and a whole book of unsent emails that would accurately describe how I feel in the moment. Very thankful that they are now deleted.
Yes the WAS don't realize how difficult life is financially when you are on your own, but I guess they along with us have to figure it out, tough but it is what it is.
BEC ... yup ... well done on the non-reply.
up to this point your W has had it all her way, now is when that fantasy life and reality start to smack the poo out of each other, allow this to happen, all while you work on you.
Where are those Goals?
So I'm guessing no reply at all is best?
Or do I reply with a validation? If so what do I say?
Cali: my first goal was streaking the quad: have that scheduled for this week lol.
On a serious note, I'm still working on them (the goals).
So I'm guessing no reply at all is best?
Or do I reply with a validation? If so what do I say?
Cali: my first goal was streaking the quad: have that scheduled for this week lol.
On a serious note, I'm still working on them (the goals).
You were just served w/ a petition for D. There are times where being light, happy, and friendly just don't seem to be in order. This is one of them. Part of her waking up to reality is that she has just filed a law suit against you, so why does she think that you'll be there to commiserate over her struggles w/ this.
I'm not saying being mean or rude or go dark. Bet you a beer (if I win you buy yourself one, & if I win I'll buy myself one) that your non-response provokes another initiating contact to see whether you will be there for her.
^^ X2
Yup .... you were fired, and when your boss calls you and tells you its rough without you there you do not reply back with validation.... you let it sit, if you are smart you ignore it all and go about your day.
Now is not the time to play nice BEC, I am not saying go egg the house or slash tires, What you are striving for here is Indifference: absence of compulsion to or toward one thing or another
Roger that A and Cali. Makes complete sense. No response sent and none will be sent.
I hope you win that bet A.
One of the first thoughts that crossed my mind when I saw it was:
"What the heck are you reaching out to me for?"
Had a good conversation with my IC this evening on the telephone and told her about it as part of what we discussed. She also agreed that no response was best because it was setting a healthy boundary of "I'm not your husband anymore by your choice" without being cold about it.
Indifference.
I agree, no response was necessary. I'm glad you listened to the posters and didn't send one.
Keep focusing on you and what you need to do in the days ahead.
Keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.
Now is not the time to play nice BEC, I am not saying go egg the house or slash tires, What you are striving for here is Indifference: absence of compulsion to or toward one thing or another
Hey Cali...what's wrong with throwing eggs at the house??!! Isn't that an option at all?
Only if they are rotten and accompanied by ripe tomatoes.
Push those kippers through the letter box too.
V
Now is not the time to play nice BEC, I am not saying go egg the house or slash tires, What you are striving for here is Indifference: absence of compulsion to or toward one thing or another
Hey Cali...what's wrong with throwing eggs at the house??!! Isn't that an option at all?
Well .... provided those eggs can not be tracked back to you. I was watching a show last night and it said the Husband is 88% more likely to act out in vengeance against his spouse .... so have a lock tight alibi handy
Now is not the time to play nice BEC, I am not saying go egg the house or slash tires, What you are striving for here is Indifference: absence of compulsion to or toward one thing or another
Hey Cali...what's wrong with throwing eggs at the house??!! Isn't that an option at all?
Well .... provided those eggs can not be tracked back to you. I was watching a show last night and it said the Husband is 88% more likely to act out in vengeance against his spouse .... so have a lock tight alibi handy
Don't you know that their is a nationwide egg shortage?
The price of eggs could hit $6.00 a dozen.
Don't you know that their is a nationwide egg shortage?
The price of eggs could hit $6.00 a dozen.
I am ALL to aware .. Soup Plantation is using that lame excuse as to the reason they are not providing the Chocolate Brownie Muffins any longer.
I can now count myself among the PA confirmed crowd.
I should have been a detective.
Anyone have any advice on how I confront her. I have consulted with my lawyer. I have hard evidence that she has been carrying on the affair since all the way back in January. Everything I suspected all of these months and that she continually denied is true.
My lawyer advised me that the evidence I have and how I got it is legal. So I am fine there. He also said that I can calmly confront her and move back into my house. If she takes the kids and runs he said to not try and stop her. It will reflect badly upon her. Not me.
Anyone have input on what I should say to her?
Why do you need to say something!
Just take action, less said the better.
Can you be more specific on "action" Cadet?
BEC - Im really not trying to be a d!ck. I'd starting by rereading all of your old threads. There is a ton of great advice from Job, Cali, etc in there.
Honestly, she had already been lying to you and covering things up. Im not sure exactly what this changes. Except that maybe now youll be ready to put some of the stuff into practice?
Don't have any advice, but I wanted to say that I'm sorry. It has to hurt in a number of ways.
Can you be more specific on "action" Cadet?
How about this?
My lawyer advised me:
He also said that I can calmly confront her and move back into my house.
I am not sure what he has in mind about confronting her.
That she is involved in an affair?
However moving back in is a great idea.
I guess you can say "Wife you lied to me"
"I am moving back into the house and the MBR!"
Then I am not sure anymore needs to be said!
What do think you should say?
Sort of the same thing. Hey you lied. I have proof. I'm moving back into my house. You do what you will.
I mean there is nothing left to do but what is best for me and my kids.
The evidence I got confirms everything. They are in love. Sexually involved. Have been working hard to deceive. Planning on getting a house together for them and my kids. Bad mouthing me as if I'm a moron and a deadbeat father.
It's pretty sick.
BEC
Not really all that surprising given all you have shared up to this point.
I do not think you need to make some grand speech, nor confront her. You have been deceived and lied to, your W made a choice. She has had it go her way this entire time as everything has pretty much been on her terms.
So where does that leave you? What do you want out of all this? Keep in mind I ask what you want ... that means things you control here. I know there has been pressure to move back in, is this what you want, will it make things better for you and the kids... can you deal with all this up close and personal?
How is IC going? GALs? These are still vital regardless of where your sitch is.
Here to support you whatever you chose to decide.
Cali. I want to get mentally healthy and strong again. IC is going well and helping toward this.
She won't stay in the house when I tell her so I'm not even concerned about having to deal with it up close and personal. That's my house and enough is enough.
I want to move on with my life. Get myself healthy and find a relationship that is loving honest and healthy.
I want to be the best father I am capable of being.
Cali. I want to get mentally healthy and strong again. IC is going well and helping toward this.
She won't stay in the house when I tell her so I'm not even concerned about having to deal with it up close and personal. That's my house and enough is enough.
I want to move on with my life. Get myself healthy and find a relationship that is loving honest and healthy.
I want to be the best father I am capable of being.
First things first right? That part will come when it comes and you are not in a solid place right now for you nor anyone else.
Remember .. this is the best advice I can give you as it was given to me here by a very wise woman. Make your decisions from a place of strength ... not out of emotion nor fear.
Keep the spew jacket ready, your W's A has started to become more of a reality now that you know ... the hidden part of it was a rush ... now that its out things will change slowly .. remember, you can not control her nor what she does nor with whom, worry about you as you said .. become a better man from all this, a better father, those 2 parts are fully in your hands and you will not regret any of the work you put into them I assure you. My W's A, as much as it killed me, forced me to become who I am ... and I am not done growing yet .. I am thankful for this chance at a second life.
BEC, sorry to hear about the PA. Its one of the hardest things that could happen to a person so please don't focus on it. A new relationship wont fix that pain, it will only mask it and make things feel better temporarily.
You still have tons of advice in your threads that still applies. Take Cali's advise about making all decisions from a place of strength. I can see how easy it could be to use the info you have to attack her if she begins to spew, which wouldn't help anything. Don't let the anger over the situation(no matter how justified it is) control you.
Good luck with things.
Well. There was no spewing. I went to my house. Kids were with my father.
Sat down with wife and simply said "I know you have been lying to me about what is going on between you and OM".
At first she tried (again) to deny it. I stayed very calm and in control and said "No. No more lies. I know about it and I have proof".
That made her listen. We talked for a while actually. I got an admission. An apology. Tears. Etc.
Told her I was moving back home. She asked if I could give her some time to find a place. Told her I would think about it.
She collapsed on all of her hard stance nasty play concerning the D.
It's kind of like a vindication to finally get an admission that I was right all along. But honestly, there are no winners here.
She has every intention of staying with him and divorcing. At least now I did finally come from a place of strength. And it looks like I'm going to get what I want and what is fair in terms of finances and custody.
BE
So now the cat is out of the bag ... she was caught and not in the position to challenge you ... this too will most likely change, as she steps back rather than deal with her own actions, she may justify them, casting the blame in your direction for your short comings
I would keep the spew jacket handy and not get to comfortable she is going to play nice with the D ... at the least not show her hand. Protect you and yours.
Damn BE, you've known this all along in your heart though haven't you?
Cali gave you some great advice, protect yourself and your kids and now you know you don't have to walk on any eggshells here. Now it's 10 fold more important to be there for your kids and for yourself.
Stay strong, sorry this came up, but on some level I'm sure you can breath now that you have the truth right in front of you.
PP
I'm glad you had a calm discussion about your situation. If you opt to give her some time to locate a place, I would give her no less than 30 days. That way she can locate a place and move in within that time frame.
Please keep in mind that while she's feeling a bit guilty at being caught, she will agree to whatever you want...but as time moves along, those agreements will become null and void unless you have it in writing and they are specifically stated in the separation and/or divorce papers and she's signed them.
I'm so sorry that this happened, but you knew deep down something wasn't right...you just had to wait a bit and find the evidence.
Continue to post because you will need the support as you travel the path. It's not over by any means and the road may become bumpier as you walk it. We are here for you.
Thank you everyone. You all have been suck wonderful friends throughout all of this.
I knew for a long time and have had my suspicions since February. In my heart part if me wanted to believe all of her lies. Bu my gut kept pushing me toward getting hard evidence.
Partly a relief because I now know that I wasn't crazy. It was text book has lighting and projection.
Partly very sad. I mean, you never think it will happen to you. This is a life experience that will teach me that anything is possible. It can always happen to you.
I will keep posting.
Right now she just wants to get it over with so I'm going to strike while the guilt and iron are hot. I spoke to my attorney and her to hers.
Her original agreement, which was utter nonsense, had gone completely off of the table. The details are being worked out where I get the house, I get the good car (the one in my name) we do 50/50 legal and custodial custody and she gets no alimony and only $175 per week in child support.
Before I beat her at this twisted and sick game of deception she wanted $350 per week in child support, only 50/50 legal but her with full custodial custody and no overnights for me, she would stay in the house and keep the good car. He wanted all of this while plotting with her new man behind my back to start their new life together. All while being active in a long term PA.
Pretty sick if you ask me.
BE
Yeah, its a gut punch... been there. That being said I will commend you ... as much as you were out of control with things early on you do sound very grounded at this point. The truth seems to have set you free at this point.
Do be mindful here, she has had this going for some time and now that her 'fantasy' is starting to quickly crumble there will be movement ... the A is no longer as much a secret as it was, and that part of it fuels the A considerably. She also has to now move, figure out her 'new' financial situation ... along with having the 'bad' car. This is most likely not going how she had it all mapped out.
I think you are going through this well on your side .. protecting yourself finally .... taking the lead here. That said .. I do think its all fresh.. I do recommend you continue IC .. regardless of your M, there are some hurts there .. you might have shoved them aside .. but please continue to do the work, I think its AJ that said there are 2 ways out of this .. become better or bitter ... I hope you take the first door here.
Before I beat her at this twisted and sick game of deception
I hate that this is the attitude you have after this long. I understand the pain and the lies and the betrayal. But I don't think this is a healthy long-term viewpoint of your children's mother.
Before I beat her at this twisted and sick game of deception
I hate that this is the attitude you have after this long. I understand the pain and the lies and the betrayal. But I don't think this is a healthy long-term viewpoint of your children's mother.
I think it's a perfectly normal reaction under these circumstances, and aptly described. His W has been playing a twisted, sick game. How else would you describe it? It doesn't mean he has to hate her or talk her down in front of other people, especially his kids, but give the guy a break. He just took a giant punch to the gut. People sometimes need to vent, and much better to do it here, than in front of friends or family.
BE
Yeah, its a gut punch... been there. That being said I will commend you ... as much as you were out of control with things early on you do sound very grounded at this point. The truth seems to have set you free at this point.
Do be mindful here, she has had this going for some time and now that her 'fantasy' is starting to quickly crumble there will be movement ... the A is no longer as much a secret as it was, and that part of it fuels the A considerably. She also has to now move, figure out her 'new' financial situation ... along with having the 'bad' car. This is most likely not going how she had it all mapped out.
I think you are going through this well on your side .. protecting yourself finally .... taking the lead here. That said .. I do think its all fresh.. I do recommend you continue IC .. regardless of your M, there are some hurts there .. you might have shoved them aside .. but please continue to do the work, I think its AJ that said there are 2 ways out of this .. become better or bitter ... I hope you take the first door here.
I'm in IC for the long haul, Cali. My number one goal is to get myself mentally healthy and strong.
What do you mean by "movement"?
The spewing has commenced and the "guilt" has become conditional.
Now what I hear is "what I did was wrong. BUT. We have been over for a long time. I wanted a divorce a long time ago but you wouldn't let me get one".
So...it's my fault and I made her have an affair, lie to me and attack me when I questioned her about it for months on end, all while she is conducting an affair on my dime and attempting to rake me over the coals and take me for everything.
I am so done with this woman. This has been an intentionally calculated and manipulative effort on her part.
I deserve better.
And the projection is mind blowing. None of us are perfect. We all have flaws. All make mistakes. I know and own my half of the pie. But a healthy person holds themselves accountable for their mistakes and wrongdoings. They show real remorse.
BEC
Not at all surprising, she is not to the point she is going to own her faults with the M, and by blaming you for the downfall that justifies the A, which she has most likely been doing for some time, but now she is just verbalizing this to you.
Drink the STFU Smoothies and let her express herself, you might be able to pick up some valuable information provided you can wade through the history re-writes she will do ... Call her on those, if something is not true, truth dart her.
As you said .. own your half .. not hers, keep your side of the street clean and let her tend to hers.
Cali. What did you mean by movement earlier?
Cali. What did you mean by movement earlier?
From what I have read, learned ... now that the A is 'out' ... its not longer the dirty secret, its real, a real relationship. Some of that drug has quickly worn off ... as your W starts coming out of that fog, things are going to become very very real for her, the fact she blew up a M, a family, all that ... the guilt will come in waves, some of this she will project onto you ... some she will swallow and try to deal with.
She will act differently ... maybe hate you more, maybe blame you, ask why you forced her into this mess, maybe nice you into things she wants ... regardless your dynamic has shifted considerably so I would suspect 'movement' by her.
This A will run its course, just the fact there is light on it now. Time will tell.
Cali. What did you mean by movement earlier?
From what I have read, learned ... now that the A is 'out' ... its not longer the dirty secret, its real, a real relationship. Some of that drug has quickly worn off ... as your W starts coming out of that fog, things are going to become very very real for her, the fact she blew up a M, a family, all that ... the guilt will come in waves, some of this she will project onto you ... some she will swallow and try to deal with.
She will act differently ... maybe hate you more, maybe blame you, ask why you forced her into this mess, maybe nice you into things she wants ... regardless your dynamic has shifted considerably so I would suspect 'movement' by her.
This A will run its course, just the fact there is light on it now. Time will tell.
To add, this likely wont happen tomorrow. But slowly over the course of the upcoming months. So proceed as needed from a legal and financial perspective. But stay patient and watch from a personal standpoint.
In my opinion, the personal aspect and the legal/financial aspect are totally different, and really, unrelated things.
Cali. What did you mean by movement earlier?
From what I have read, learned ... now that the A is 'out' ... its not longer the dirty secret, its real, a real relationship. Some of that drug has quickly worn off ... as your W starts coming out of that fog, things are going to become very very real for her, the fact she blew up a M, a family, all that ... the guilt will come in waves, some of this she will project onto you ... some she will swallow and try to deal with.
She will act differently ... maybe hate you more, maybe blame you, ask why you forced her into this mess, maybe nice you into things she wants ... regardless your dynamic has shifted considerably so I would suspect 'movement' by her.
This A will run its course, just the fact there is light on it now. Time will tell.
To add, this likely wont happen tomorrow. But slowly over the course of the upcoming months. So proceed as needed from a legal and financial perspective. But stay patient and watch from a personal standpoint.
In my opinion, the personal aspect and the legal/financial aspect are totally different, and really, unrelated things.
Cali guy, you always know how to put things very clear and to the point! I agree.
Cali. What did you mean by movement earlier?
From what I have read, learned ... now that the A is 'out' ... its not longer the dirty secret, its real, a real relationship. Some of that drug has quickly worn off ... as your W starts coming out of that fog, things are going to become very very real for her, the fact she blew up a M, a family, all that ...
the guilt will come in waves, some of this she will project onto you ... some she will swallow and try to deal with.
She will act differently ...
maybe hate you more, maybe blame you, ask why you forced her into this mess, maybe nice you into things she wants ... regardless your dynamic has shifted considerably so I would suspect 'movement' by her.
This A will run its course, just the fact there is light on it now. Time will tell.
I've already experienced this. The day I confronted her and finally got the admission, we spoke on the telephone after speaking in person. She was sad. Even reinforced her idea that I am a better person than her. I asked her why she thought I was a better person and she said "Look at you. You could forgive me after what I have done." This was after I told her that if she ended it and committed to us that I would forgive her.
Then the very next day, when she found out how I got the evidence, she raged at me. Called me a scumbag and told me she hates me and just wants me out of her life. Told me that it "didn't have to be this way. That what she did was wrong BUT she had told me that she wanted a divorce a year ago and that I wouldn't let her".
So yeah, the gas lighting and playing the victim card continues. That is a pretty big shift from one end of the spectrum (guilt and remorse and stating what a good person I am) to the other (hate, yelling and blaming me for her choices and actions).
Do I disclose to my children that mommy's "friend" is not her friend. Nor is he their friend.
She did a great job taking advantage of their age and made sure that she had him spend a ton of time around my young children.
They do not think he is more than just her friend.
Do I disclose to my children that mommy's "friend" is not her friend. Nor is he their friend.
She did a great job taking advantage of their age and made sure that she had him spend a ton of time around my young children.
They do not think he is more than just her friend.
To what end does this purpose serve here? To get you on a higher superiority ground? Or moral high ground?
Zip it.
So I'll take that as a no, Wonka
"Consistent Inconsistency"
Well everyone. Here is a rundown of what has unfolded the last 2 and 1/2 weeks since I caught and confronted her about her affair. The biggest developments have occurred over the last 6 days so I'll bullet point them. As a refresher I have a 6 yo boy and a 2 yo girl. My wife has been having an affair since January and has brought the other man around the children on an almost daily basis starting in April. All the while lying to me and to the children about the nature of her relationship with him. She filed for divorce last month:
Saturday: My son opened up to me about some feelings. He told me how he felt safe and comfortable talking to me but it was different when he tried talking to mom. He said when he has tried to talk to mom the last few months about me coming home etc that the talks were very short and that they wouldn't talk again for a long time and that it confused him. He sensed mom didn't want to talk about it. He just wants me to come home.
Sunday: My son opens up about more things. He tells me about a "new house" that him mom his sister and the OM went to look at over the weekend. For the first time he expresses concerns about the other man. He says "dad I am suspicious of him. It isn't normal for someone to spend so much time around a family. I don't know if he is going to be living there but I will let you know if he does". He also expresses that he is uncomfortable around the OM and doesn't like him spending time around the family.
Monday: I get a long text from my wife telling me she found a place to live (does not mention OM). Tell me that she is MOVING ON SATURDAY (WTF). In this text she tries to convince me to allow son to switch schools because it is in "his best interest" and that she talked to him and he is "comfortable with it.
I talk to son. He expresses that if he had the option to stay at his current school and live with me in the marital home that he would prefer that. At this point he still does not know if other man is living in the new house but says that he would be uncomfortable with it if he was.
Monday night when wife gets home from work I talk to her and give her my answer on son switching schools. For the first time I tell her about all of the talks my son has had with me and disclose how he really feels about OM. I ask her if OM will be living in that house. She says yes (mind you my son and daughter still don't know OM will be living there too and still don't know the nature of his relationship with their mother). I tell wife my answer is no on son switching schools. That this is too much for a little boy to deal with and we are going to do what is truly in his best interest and what he is most comfortable with. I will move back into marital home and son will live with me and stay in school. She says daughter goes with her and stands firm on living with OM. We come to an agreement on this and a visitation schedule. I am relieved that I got my little boy and in my mind my next step is to get my little girl. I tell her that it is inappropriate for her to have tried to move the children in with OM and that I am going to do everything in my power to prevent him living with the kids.
Wednesday: I send wife text and tell her she needs to tell me what she is taking and leaving in the move and what we are doing with Son for Saturday night. Wife sends me text and asks if she can talk to me after she is finished with work. When she gets home (I was at marital home watching kids) she tells me that she is confused because she thought that I was going to do anything in my power to prevent her from moving in with OM and that would mean that I was going to fight her for full custody of kids and if that is the case than she is not moving. Will stay in the marital home until the divorce is final and than she can "move in with whomever she wants". Again WTF. She presses me about needing to know if I am going to fight her for custody. I tell her that I don't know what I'm going to do yet but you have made choices and those choices come with consequences that you must live with. She stands firm and says she isn't moving and if I come back that we must cohabit until the divorce is final (ummmmm....no).
Tonight: I call her and tell her the following. You have two choices and there is no in between. If you stay in marital home I come home and you end your relationship with OM, commit to your marriage and family because you will not live in our house while carrying on a relationship with another man.
or
You choose OM and leave. Daughter goes with you. Son stays with me and you live with whatever consequences come with that choice.
There is no in between and you have one day to decide. That is all I have to say at the moment. I say goodbye and hang up.
Wish I had words of wisdom....it just hurts so much, doesn't it?
Be careful about making demands, that's not the purpose of setting boundaries. Forcing her to make a decision in 1 day is all about control, nothing else. What are you planning to do if she doesn't decide in 1 day? You're putting intense pressure on her and it will backfire on you. Also, you really can't force her to move out all you can do is state you won't live with her in an open M. Which again turns back to what you would do.
How's things going with you. IC, GAL, eating, sleeping, exercise, etc?
Take care of yourself.
BEC, its been almost 3 months since you last posted, how are things going? Please give us an update sometime.