Part 1 - Initial disappearance and NC from beginning by W, unsure of why W left, found out about OM, one weekend of talking about reconciling, then NC from W, initiate mediation
I thought everything was okay Part 2 - Continued NC from W, further distance from W about kids, MCS figures out judgmental tendencies, W finally comes gets her things, stress over communication about kids
I thought everything was okay....(part 2) Part 3 - MCS tries to figure out how to control his anger about the sitch. MCS thinks he's 'done' with DB by allowing himself to get too stern about communications about the kids. MCS finds that he's actually starting to detach (finally.) W reduces her NC at counseling and starts to ask MCS about how he's feeling and what he needs for closure.
I thought everything was okay (part 3) Part 4 - MC continues to talk about the R, but there's really no progress in R. Is OM done? W starts to let down her wall and show how much emotional stress she's in. Interactions start to get better outside MC, but W shuts back down. MCS struggling whether to believe W about things that she says about BD, W downplays role of OM on her leaving.
I thought everything is okay (part 4) Part 5 - MCS starts to really make some progress in detaching, relinquishing control and generally starting to be comfortable with his life. WW seems to be struggling, but MCS realizes there's nothing he can do. WW decides to cancel MC (mediation)
I thought everything was okay....(Part 5) _______________________
So, for everyone reading this that is new(er.) 'It' (which really means 'you') gets better even if the R/M/WW doesn't seem to be getting better. Man, it takes a toll and I never thought that I'd be saying this, but I'm actually feeling fine with whatever the outcome may be in all of this. Everything you hear on these boards and it makes no sense at all. It will....it just takes time, a lot of work and a lot of self-reflection.
For me, where I left off on the last thread is starting to experiment a little with reaching out and making new connections. It's a little surprising because my own reaction to this step wasn't as I predicted.
WW seems not to be doing well, but that may just be around me. I know she's out of money and stressed about that, but generally she's looking and acting......different, depressed and angry. I don't know if or when she'll ever get out of this funk, it seems like we switched roles. I was a mess at BD and she was calm and collected, now the opposite it true.
Kids, whom I was most worried about, seem to be adjusting adequately. They are definitely beginning to be more vocal about differences between 'Dad' and 'Mom' which is tough to hear, I reassure them and stay positive but it still breaks my heart but there's not much I can do about it.
Communication with WW is back to non-existent. Now, I see myself just communicating how I want to, without concern in how she feels about it, nor do I get upset when she doesn't respond at all.
But V - how will we ever be in another relationship if we are not willing to risk that possibility? Even if there is R with our WAS, there's always the possibility that they are still seeing someone on the side, no?
Gan, yes of course. When we are vulnerable then on line is higher risk and some sites more than others because there is a higher than average chance of touching base with a WW or WH.
Yes, MCS you are right in your interpretation, maybe I was clumsy in my wording (hits head with plan of hand Duh!)
Why do I say be conscious about the others on dating sites?
1. There are more WS than you think out there
2. They lie
3. It's easy to hide on line
4. They are likely more active in seeking out POWs or POMs
5. LBS are more prone to be taken in (history)
6. Having worked at DB, more likely to be cuter, more positive, more attractive as a POP
7. Those that join a 'free' dating site have no costs on credit cards etc for spouses to find
It isn't my place to say whether to date or use the Internet, but my view for what it's worth is do so consciously and deliberately, take no one at face value out there until you know their lives. And no intimate or close conversations and risk an EA with someone who might be someone else's WW or WH especially if unconsciously joining a free site. It's like leaving the Tuck Shop open unattended with an eat all you can sign. These unscrupulous have instant repore stills in spades. Think Catfish. They don't all join marital affair sites or sugar allowed. Learn from Sandis sitch.
V
Definitely agree LBS are vulnerable to EAs and probably PAs....though I think it is a bit of a grey area as to whether it is an A when we've been separated for so long?
My thinking is that if the other party is a WH then I am an OW. Yuk!
This means I too have been lied to and cheat on. OK maybe I am not cheating on a partner but I am definitely in an A triangle.
Don't want that in my life to be yet again abused.
No way
V
Hey MCS.
Never let other people stop you from living your life.
Or. Don't stop yourself from living your life.
My lasagna is burning!
Tenbook,
Hopefully the Lasagna came out okay. Thanks for the advice. I'm one that usually over analyzes everything I do. I'm comfortable reaching out and talking with people, as I know (and I'm trying to show) that I'm very cautious and not really interested in actually dating. A few weeks ago, I really looked at what I'm 'missing' with WW gone. It was mostly just companionship (and intimacy.) So this is helping on the companionship front.
Gan,
I agree and I'm a fairly religious person, so I've been trying to reconcile in my head what D actually means beyond a piece of paper at the courthouse. It's obvious that WW wants no part of me. There's been really no thawing in the Relationship-front since October. However, I do feel that she's lost and sick; everything I see about her is....really not her. I'm not the only person to see this, her friends and family see the same thing. Regardless of our sitch, I hope she gets help and starts to reconcile with herself her own feelings.
So as far as whether this is would be considered an A or not; right now I'm going by the approach that my interactions are not going beyond what I would have with any other friend. Maybe a little bit more flirting, but still very kosher. This may be temporary and I'll be comfortable moving to the next phase soon, but I don't think so as I know I truly haven't come to the point that I've closed my heart to reconciling. So, I don't see that it's an A or EA. As I said, I thought through this first, but my response of not telling anyone about it was what caused me to pause and ponder whether I'm trying to fool myself.
MCS
Enjoy your life, be clear to yourself.
Double check before you go headlong into an Emotional Attachment.
But have some joy.
V
Thanks V,
For the last couple months, my mom keeps telling me to not feel guilty to try new things and focus on myself. I've never really been sure what she's met because when I would GAL; it didn't make me feel guilty at all. I'm guessing that's not what she's been talking about...
________________
So the interesting thing is that I can see that I'm a little torn. I've accepted the sitch with my M, but today a sermon at church, along with two songs I heard back to back on the radio it just kind of hit me. The gravity of the sitch came down (not in a bad way) I just saw how through all of this, the solution seemed to be so easy in the beginning (and it kinda was.) However that solution is getting more and more complicated everyday; but I've resigned to 'its not mine to fix.' Another part of me is seeing that is maybe why it wasn't 'solved' in the beginning because I didn't realize how complicated it actually was. I see now it would have been short-lived. Nine months later and WW seems still confused and lost but hiding it from everyone, just like she did in our M.
The sermon at church was about Love and in some cases where the other person doesn't want it, we need to not force it; but simply be there if they need us to. That it feels wrong, but we can't take responsibility to fix everything and everyone.
Well, I'm here if WW needs me. But I can't be the one to fix her. She needs to do that herself. I'm not sure how long I can stand, but just like everything else in the sitch.....it will be one day at a time.
So the song is one that I listened to a hundred times last year just because I liked Pink and the band Fun. It totally exemplified my life without me even knowing it; how a women sees the relationship ending and the man being oblivious to it. I actually listened to the words today and finally realized what it meant, I had no clue before. I probably even had WW listen to it many times in the car, while she was probably feeling this way.
Well, they end or recommitting in the song, but...well.....yeah, its a song.
Just Give me a Reason
Pink and Nate Ruess
[Girl]
Right from the start
You were a thief
You stole my heart
And I your willing victim
I let you see the parts of me
That weren't all that pretty
And with every touch you fixed them
Now you've been talking in your sleep, oh, oh
Things you never say to me, oh, oh
Tell me that you've had enough
Of our love, our love
Guy]
I'm sorry I don't understand
Where all of this is coming from
I thought that we were fine
Your head is running wild again
My dear we still have everythin'
And it's all in your mind
You've been havin' real bad dreams,
You used to lie so close to me,
There's nothing more than empty sheets
Between our love, our love
I never stopped
You're still written in the scars on my heart
You're not broken just bent
And we can learn to love again
I'll fix it for us
But our love's enough
You're holding it in
No nothing is as bad as it seems
[Both]
Just give me a reason
Just a little bit's enough
Just a second we're not broken just bent
And we can learn to love again
It's in the stars
It's been written in the scars on our hearts
That we're not broken just bent
And we can learn to love again
Sorry its been so long since I checked in on your thread, but Im glad it seems like you are having an easier time detaching- regardless of how you may feel regarding the church sermon or the songs you heard.
Just my thoughts on online dating-like with everything else, just be prepared for the consequences, if any, whatever they may be.
Personally, from my own, very recent experience, I would avoid it unless you are absolutely sure you want to date and are ok with WW finding out.
I joined a couple dating websites- looking for friends, it was actually in my title that I am married and am just looking for someone to hang out with. Somehow while she's here, WAW found out, even though I deleted everything. She was pissed- even though I literally sent no one a message, didnt even have a profile picture, and met no one at all. Makes no sense to me since she's living with OM.
I didnt even want to really date, quite honestly i just missed the attention from people and didnt know anyone in this area since I just moved.
Like V said, I think it leads to EA too quickly so for me it was a mistake to even join those sites, regardless if she found out or not.
RE: Another part of me is seeing that is maybe why it wasn't 'solved' in the beginning because I didn't realize how complicated it actually was. I see now it would have been short-lived. Nine months later and WW seems still confused and lost but hiding it from everyone, just like she did in our M.
I agree that WW seems still confused and lost...but have you, MCS actually really changed? or do you feel like your changed because WW isn't there to push your buttons 24/7, to flip out on you over nothing in the blink of an eye, and if she does, it only lasts a short while because its a brief exchange or a simple text/phone call/email
Given how my sitch is going and how its all over the place with W here, I keep thinking about what Mozza and a few others wrote to me a while back- are my changes real or is it all superficial to get W home. How will I react with her here?
While I believe they are real, when my buttons get pushed, I resort back to the old T, not necessarily in full force, but enough to where its not helping me- I still need to grow. Are you confident that if WW came back today, you're fully ready and really the new improved MCS?
Keeping you in my thoughts.
MCS,
You should check out my thread. I have compiled a list of songs that I have dubbed "the DBers songbook". Not surprisingly, this song (Just Give me a Reason) is in it. I never heard of the song until Lost18 suggested its inclusion in the list. Now I have listened to it dozens of times and it totally resonates with me.
There are other songs in the list that you may enjoy or may give you strength in your sitch.
If you stop by, drop me a quick note.
also, feel free to add other suggestions.
RAI
I joined a couple dating websites- looking for friends, it was actually in my title that I am married and am just looking for someone to hang out with. Somehow while she's here, WAW found out, even though I deleted everything. She was pissed- even though I literally sent no one a message, didnt even have a profile picture, and met no one at all. Makes no sense to me since she's living with OM.
TLEE,
Good for you to be back. I'm sorry that the last couple days have been trying for you. Hopefully they are settling down a little bit. As far as this portion of your post.....it's WW script. Did she believe you when you told her the truth about it? Probably not....its not the dating site that got her upset; its the uncertainty of the whole sitch. If you're comfortable with the intentions of your postings, that's all that matters.
This is where I stand. If my M is R or D based on my current actions on these sites; it probably didn't have much of a chance anyway. Everything I'm doing is stuff I would be willing to share with anyone at all. The caution that I'm making sure I'm okay is what could this 'lead' to. That's where I need to continually evaluate with myself. I've always said that one of my values is to always take whatever consequences your actions have; so I know I'm going into this carefully.
I agree that WW seems still confused and lost...but have you, MCS actually really changed?
So, this is an interesting one. I've looked and looked to see what my true role in the sitch was and I see that 'my' changes are fairly simple to make, but not uncovered for a long time. I've been comfortable with the core of MCS, himself throughout all of this. My issues? Apathy, complacency some criticism based on the two . I can see this much clearer now, but I also see that none of these traits were even close to being unhealthy in any relationship (especially once kids are born)
In saying that I'm all about claiming responsibility, but I see that there are really, really deep seated issues that WW has been struggling with for a long time. Over the years, she based her self-esteem on others (including me) and I was just one of many people 'life' caught up became apathetic of this need of hers (no one really saw it.) She's shut out everyone else to because of these same issues. I can't fix that.
I should state that unhealthy was not the right word above, I should have used the term abnormal. Basically, we got to a phase of marriage that was ho-hum. I was okay with this as it seemed we had refocused our life on the kids. WW seems to have struggled during this time, PPD, depression, boredom, no 5LL, I don't know; but she never expressed any one of these things to me nor did I see it.
EA was her solution
PA was her solution
Trying to convince him to leave his GF was her solution
Leaving me as a final stand was her solution
Deciding not to work on M, holding out hope for OM, her solution
Still holding onto this fantasy even though everything around her is crumbling, her solution
This may sound like I'm mad, but I'm not. I'm not bitter, I'm not resentful. WW decided to lead her life in a lie in order to think she can use others to make herself happy, and it's not working. She's crumbling
I care for her so much, but I can't change her solution to her problems. Only she can change that and I still pray that my patience holds out to intersect with her recovery.....I hope that I'll be there when she needs someone, even though I seem like the last person she would reach out too, but I can't do anything about that. I'll stick with it as long as I can, but I can't stay in limbo forever.
Got an email from WW yesterday. She knew I was going to the L on Friday. She has asked about a Separation Agreement a couple weeks back and when I said I was going to talk to the L about it, that's when she cancelled MC (mediation.)
Couple little things, but she asked how L went and what I thought of OUR plan for the (emphasis mine) Separation Agreement. I just replied back that L and I talked for a while and asked what she had in mind.
Anyway, it didn't stress me too much. I'm not sure of her motives, she can file in just 3 months. We've went 9 months with no agreement, maybe its so she doesn't need to continue to contribute to the house, maybe she wants me to initiate....IDK.
I can tell I'm pretty much fully detached at this point. As I said yesterday, I've let go of control of the sitch....not in my hands. I think I've gotten to acceptance, IDK. Time to still be patient though, hopefully the communication will improve between us about the kids.
Involving lawyers is very worrisome for all parties. The trust is very low between spouses during an S. I would say that your WW is probably just trying to gather information because she's worried. Every single WAS seem to insist that lawyers are not needed - mine did, look at Maybell's manipulative H, etc. I admit that I would also be worried if my WW said she got a lawyer. It's like someone showing up at a negotiation with a knife. You don't expect to need it, but it makes feel very vulnerable.
It's interesting to see how much you detach now. I think your WW needs this space. I don't think you're fully detached now, so I stay tuned to see if your WW will have some kind of change when you entirely drop the rope.
Mozza,
Yeah, WW saw a L the first week she left; I believe she was seeking counsel because she was worried about 'abandonment.' I guess other than that, the L's haven't really come up too often.
As far as detachment, it feels like I'm pretty detached. I think I kind of dropped the rope a couple weeks ago when she told me I had spent the last 8 months trying to get her back and I said to her 'I don't want you back if this is who you are'
I agree she needs the space. I'm at the point that I feel the same way for me.
No response back on the Separation Agreement, not surprising. However, I think put the responsibility back on her is a good thing, this was her decision and all.
Hang in there MCS. You are doing great.
I agree she needs the space. I'm at the point that I feel the same way for me.
Ok, sometimes it takes a while for what you wrote to digest.
I read this again today and I think it truly is time
I need some space from the sitch, its been 9 months constantly on my mind, I need a little bit of a breather. I'm going to go dark from this thread for a couple days. As S6 calls it, I think my clarity of the whole sitch got a 'level-up' over the last couple weeks. This is a good thing, I think. I'll check back in a few days. Thanks everyone on here for all of the help. I'm sure I'll be back on soon.
How is everything going MCS?
TLEE,
Thanks for checking in, I've been lurking in the background seeing what's been going on with all you folks, but as I said; not posting.
So, its been going really, really good, from a pure MCS perspective. WW is still a mess, confiding in D4 stuff that gets me angry because she's run out of others to give her sympathy. Then she follows it up asking how soon I can pay her her settlement from the D, even though there is nothing even filed, nor can it be until August. But these things no longer seem to have much affect on me.
Over the last month, I've felt like I'm made some huge growth personally, the funny thing is that its different than the direction that I've been holding onto for the last 9 months. Its a combination of everything I've learned on the board, but also getting me to accept the one that I resisted the most GAL.....I've looked back and saw that my last piece of 'control' of the outcome of the sitch was my own patience in waiting. I had put my life on hold in order to ensure that if she wanted to change her mind, I'd be ready to accommodate it.
So, I've went out and GAL, I've had fun, I've made new connections, etc. and I've seen that the person that's been inside me has started to re-emerge. When I've looked at myself throughout the sitch, I've tried to identify my faults in the R and I've seen them; but they were nothing that justified what WW did. I was complacent in filling LL, I let life overwhelm my connection in the M, but I was also at a point of comfort in my life. And this is where things went wrong....she wasn't. She chose not to share, because she 'knew' I would try to fix it and she didn't want me to. My change.......I can't fix this for her, nor do I want to at this point. I would love to help her through her issues as a mom; but I don't think I'll ever be able to trust her with my heart.
I wish this was a black and white decision, but it's been much more of a process. For me, it was finally allowing myself to give up putting my life on hold that opened my eyes that everything is okay in my life.
For me personally, what I've learned is that I need to consciously continue to push myself out of my comfort zone. I wouldn't change anything, but in my life I always was super-conservative, strategic, prepared and whatever other words for someone that over-analyzes everything in order to try and control the outcome. Well given my sitch, I see that while everything needs to be balanced; the sitch has pushed me to not allow myself to fall back in being 'comfortable' about everything, as that's when complacency begins to creep in.
In summary, I believe that I need to move on with my life. WW seems like she's going to put an Agreement in place and then probably right afterwards serve me. That's her decision, she's getting motivated by the money it seems; but its obvious that after almost a year there is no desire to work on the M (actually really 2 years since the A started). The motivations for her leaving, not talking, cheating, avoiding, etc. all don't matter to me because they are her decisions and I will work within what I can to honor her decisions. In saying that, MCS is looking out for MCS and S6/D4. That is my family right now and we are having a splendid time sharing whatever moments we can.
If I had read this post probably two or three months ago, I would have said there's no possible way it would have came from me. I was going to 'wait' it out. But waiting it out was slowly keeping me locked into trying to solve the sitch. I can't do that anymore and I'm at a place that I think I'm okay with that.
Thanks for the update MCS. I am happy for you, sounds like you've really learned alot about everything thats happened, and about yourself. Doing what you want to be doing, making new connections, discovering things, and "not being complacent" about anything. Id encourage you to keep up these activities because it really seems to be working for you.
As for WAW, thats on her. If she's motivated by the $ or just waiting for August to roll around, well...thats on her. All you can do is just focus on you and the family which you've been doing so kudos to you. Have faith and keep your head up.
So, it's been almost 2 weeks since my last post so I figured I'd give a little update.
I'm doing so much better. I see now that my last nine months, I've just been waiting for WW to have a sudden change of mind, but I know that it's not going to happen that way. She's been avoiding me at all costs for, I have no idea why. A part of me thinks it's because she can't validate the mean spirited person that she's made me out to be in her head, or maybe it is she still has feelings for me. It doesn't matter. I needed to take a break and it feels like this may be the point that I'm done. In fact, I am pretty sure I am. I've thought about it so much and I see that I don't want this person back without huge sweeping changes. Even if this were to happen, it's going to take a long, long time for any semblance of a R to start to form. I can't live like that for however long. I realize now how much damage has been done to our M, ourselves, our kids, our families and so on because of the A and at this point, it would be start from scratch because we are both so different than before. I see myself stronger and more confident and the opposite for her, but I can't help her with that anymore nor am I going to try.
So, I want to thank everyone here for all that this board has given me, I feel so much stronger and balanced than I did before all of this happened and without a doubt; it was because of everyone here. This is a place of healing and a Godsend for all of us.
I'll try to pay it forward as much as I can, but a part of me feels like posting here is reverting back to the pause that I have had over the last year. However, I'll keep lurking and seeing how everyone is doing. Hopefully, we all can repair ourselves regardless of the outcome of our M.
Thanks so much.
MCS,
Your experiences and contributions to the forum have been invaluable. It's been a real honor to follow your story. I hope that DB has had a place in your moving on.
Who knows. A decade later you may want to recall the journey you took when you first got here.
p.s I hate nostalgia.
Wanting an update MCS!
In fact asking for an update......
V
V,
Thanks for asking. Just checking in right now, so no time to post. I'll see if I can get back tonight and give a run down. However, the short of it is doing really good for myself. Not worried about the future and that's liberating.
--MCS
V,
Thanks for checking back in. Here's an update, as I said I'm doing really good.
WW Status - Email contact has increased, well..because she wants something. Rumor has it that WW is out of money and is looking to try to finalize paperwork as much as possible in order to get her 'settlement' quickly from me buying her out of the house. I'm not sure she realizes its still going to be at least 6 months after August (1 year from her leaving) at the earliest. Not my place to tell her. She want's financials from me, but when I ask about stuff with kids in the agreement, she gets quiet. She still has not really connected back with her friends and frankly I'm not sure how she is doing.
Kid Status - They seem to be adapting. I see a little difference between 'going to mom's' and 'going to dad's.' I may be reading into it, but it seems like they are more comfortable here (marital home.) There's still no contact at all when they are at the other's house. For me, I think I've begrudgingly accept that there's nothing I can do about only spending half my time with them.
GAL Status - Much better, I've just decided not to say no to things. Nothing recurring, but spending more time out with friends, kayaking, whatever.
Dating Status - (I do think I just put that there....) Well, V was right the online thing was probably a more serious step than I thought. To summarize, inexplicably connected with another LBS going through very, very similar sitch. We hit it off and have really helped each other in our sitches, both knowing that everything around us in our lives is dynamic. Still both pretty much DBing to understand and grow ourselves through this, but understanding our lives also can't be on hold 'waiting' for our WAS. Very careful balance of ensuring that we are not ignoring sitch, stability, kids, work and the myriad of other things, but also taking time for ourselves individually as well as spending time together. There's a lot of external factors constraining the time to timeframes that are truly 'free-time' which I think is a good thing given everything else.
So, lot of what I've learned here I've been putting to practice. I'm much more comfortable with myself and accepting that I can be happy without WW. There's a lot I still wish I could influence in some way (communication with kids, co-parenting, etc.) but have accepted that I can't have those things paralyze me.
Most of my friends see a change in me. The stress is reduced, I'm more relaxed and not emotionally connected to every WW move like I was before. I don't think I could have gotten to this point without everyone here, it's truly been a ray of brilliant sunlight through a terrible storm.
Doing great buddy... Hang in there...
WW is still working her stuff, it may be a while yet. Sounds like reality is starting.
The kids are still a little too young for phones or iPads but in due course you should be able to FaceTime with them when they are at WWs.
Take the dating slowly MCS, you and your friend are in sitches that could turn around and then either of you end up hurting or with conflicts. that is the risk.
There is still DB, keep us updated.
Pleased for you that you are detached
V
V,
Yeah, thanks for the feedback.
For WW, its interesting because I've gotten some feedback and a lot of folks, friends/family that still interact with her see that the 'her wall' is not breaking down. It's discouraging, but as I said she doesn't want help right now. Hopefully she can work on herself and figure it out at some point. While she didn't believe me when I said it, I still care about her and I just want her to be happy with whatever choices she makes.
As far as dating, I agree with you and I think 'we' understand the risks in each of our sitches. Just like the different sitches on here; I can see the variation in the specifics between the two. I do worry about the conflicts and complications that could occur, but also realize that there needs to be a balance between an indefinite pause and also 'moving on.' It goes back to something that you said a bit ago to me that resonated and I've thought about it a lot. Like a lot of things, the advice that we struggle with receiving is often because we are not ready to use it at the time. You said not to let dogma and future expectations prevent me from living my life. I did that for the last 10 months. That is what I am focusing on right now and it pushes me out of my comfort zone, but I also see that's part of where I need to grow. The detachment has helped immensely with dealing with it as objectively as possible. I can't dwell on the 'easiness' of life that I was accustomed to prior to BD. However, I also need to stay true to who I am. But like any growth and uncertainty, we need to muddle through it and re-establish some things that we took for granted before.
I see it very much as I've been in 'survival mode' and thought that I could maintain that as long as needed until the sitch would get resolved, but now I'm seeing that my next step is looking within myself and how my life needs to be shaped from the past year and not dictated by it. It feels like a healthy place to be in right now.
Lastly, some of it is eye-opening with regard to the newness and excitement of getting to know someone else and frankly it helps me understand how devastating an A can be in a M. I think I better understand the 'fog' and how easy that can consume someone if you don't know that its there.
Asking for an update
Please
V
Hey all,
Thanks for checking in. I'm doing good still. It feels like things are back to normal-ish. I find myself not dwelling over things I once used to. The pain is still there and I see that there is still some deep down anger as a parent about what has happened to our kids. Objectively looking back, our marriage had little conflict or issues at all. I believe this is still a case of a kindred spirit that didn't adapt to the ebb and flow of life. This is not saying there were things that I wouldn't change and I am working on them. However, my anger seems to lie on the fact that I never had a chance to work on the marriage together with her. I look back and I was fooled into thinking everything was okay. I've accepted that with me, but with kids it's still a very tough pill to swallow.
In saying that, I've adjusted. Most people say I seem much better than I have since this all started and I do feel that way.
Talking about the new Relationship:
For me, it's an interesting dichotomy. One one hand, connecting and getting to know someone is refreshing, but also the reminders of situations, environments, discussions, etc. that are nostalgic of my M are still somewhat sorrowful. I lost my younger sister a few years back and the same feelings of sorrow seem to be prevalent in these situations. However, just like grief of a death, the reminders are not paralyzing and are more of a reminder of the past instead of a roadblock to the future.
It's good, because we are both dealing with our own sitches separately but helping each other along the way. We've talked and know we can't solve the others' problems and I see this as personal growth in how I react/advise about her sitch. I do a lot more listening, hold back from solving and also I see myself reducing any judgement of things. Also, I find myself saying what's in my mind. I found that no fault of my WW in the M, but I became muted in expressing myself and that probably exsaserbated WW issues in the marriage. If I thought she looked good, I assumed she knew and wouldn't say anything. Now I see that was not wrong, but also not good.
With the kids and communication with WW, it's still an Epic struggle, but I realize it is getting ever so slightly better. She had the kids for Father's Day and would have appreciated if she had set up a call or text from them (she would have done this for anyone before.) I'm not sure if it was to hurt me, she didn't think about it or whatever else, but I got them back and was heading with them on vacation today so I tried not to let it bother me. I'm at the point that I'm stoic enough to pick the battles for things with the kids and this wasn't one of them. I have no clue how she is actually doing, but that doesn't really matter much right now. No more talk about her putting papers in for the S. I'm expecting them and won't be too surprised or traumatized if/when I get them.
So overall, much better. I'm still healing and I'm not sure how long if ever that will take, but I'm in a much better place right now.
Hey MCS - It looks like I hadn't been on your thread for a long time, because I didn't know that you had disclosed so much about your dating. I had read it between the lines of your message on my own thread though.
It's interesting that you met an LBS. It is probably very bonding for the two of you, a topic that's close to your hearts and that someone can understand, probably also taking your side. As you know, I've nothing against dating-while-separated and even practice it myself, though I'm wary of excessive emotional attachment at this stage. For as long as I feel I would be interested to (not just consider) R, I feel like I cannot make a commitment to a new person.
I'll add that yes, it can be strange to end up in the "fog" of a new relationship ourselves. I've seen myself texting until the wee hours of the night, much to my amusement. It's tremendous fun to feel this enthusiastic about someone. It's also great to realize how far we can go, how much more open we can be early on as we develop a relationship. Even in bed, there is no routine. Makes me think of the saying (by MWD?): "It's not that people fall out of love, but that they stop doing what made them fall in love." I wish I could find a way to "reset" myself a couple of times a year in a long-term relationship.
Keep posting because your sitch is really not over and it helps me to see how things are going to you. I just
renewed my thread and will also keep posting.
Slowly MCS.
Keep us in the loop.
V
Just got back from a week-long vacation with the kids. We had a blast, did a lot of things and enjoyed ourselves. I have to say, there was definitely a push by me to make this a 'Single Parent' vacation. Even though I was staying with family; I decided that I would venture out with the kids by myself. Took them to the museum, the zoo, an amusement park. It was really good, I found that I was comfortable and was impressed with my 'preparedness' as things came up. Kids wanted to go play in the fountain down the city? Sure, Dad's got a change of clothes packed in his bag. Train delayed? pull out the crayons and coloring books. Regardless, it was a really fun time with them.
Other than that, not too much more to report. WW picked up the kids on Saturday and as she was leaving, it was pouring and I said 'bye' and she gave a slight wave back. I think it was instinctual. Wow the bar is pretty low, but I'm definitely at the point that my focus is to try and improve our relationship for the welfare of the kids. That means for me, its being cordial and keeping my mouth shut. I'm even at the point, that if I had the opportunity, I'm not sure if anything constructive about the sitch could be said, so silence is best.
Anyway, still doing well. Thanks for checking in on me.
MCS- Im glad you are still doing well and you and the kids had a good time. I have to ask you, what was your turning point. I remember a time where you were hanging onto your wife's actions and words, pining for contact. Now...I feel this is a new you. And Im happy for you. But what was your turning point?
TLEE,
I'm not sure if it was one turning point, but I do remember getting to the point of wondering what 'I' was fearful of. True, all of the effect of the sitch on the kids had me caught up for months, and then I accepted there wasn't much I could do about that. Then, when looking at myself I wasn't sure what I was scared of...would I meet someone inthe future? Probably. love again? Probably. Have the companionship? Probably. I really had nothing too bad to worry about. I was upset about the sitch, was surviving, but knew at some point I'd be okay. I think then pushing myself to try and reach out and push myself to go beyond just 'waiting' is what did it and I saw that I could be happy and comfortable w/o WW.
Also, I accepted that WW was not the person I married and the 'light switch' was not going to just instantly switch, at that point, I saw how fractured her interactions were with me and knew that if there was an R, it would be in the time of years, not days, weeks or months. At that point I knew I wouldn't be able just to 'wait' for a change for that long.
In saying that, it's easier to look back and assess, but I don't think I realized I was progressing during the whole thing.
MCS
If you reread your thread can you see the pivot points?
And if so what were they?
V
V,
Yeah, I need to go back through but I'm not sure if I'm ready to do that right now. Just because I'm sure its going to conjure up some of the feelings that I had at the time.
I will attribute one to you particularly remembering back. You had said something about how I still needed to live my life and not just 'wait' for WW to wake up. It took a couple weeks/months, but slowly I started to see that the purgatory of just waiting was taking a toll on me. I will go back through and see where the changes were, maybe in another month or so.
I also see that the IC that I had was much more getting me through the grief and not necessarily things I needed to 'change' about me. I think she saw that I was comfortable with myself outside of the sitch and just worked on small things that I needed to realize, such that the kids would cope through it, WW didn't want me to save her, etc. This is much different than when I first got there and was pleading with her to figure out what was wrong with me that WW just up and left.
MCS
I understand how painful the journey with WW has been for you.
In your time and space you will know how far you have come. The waiting has finished and closure awaits round the corner.
At some stage you will be ready to take the step to review the past and see your journey.
You have done well to develop your knowledge so greatly. Some day WW will heal too, that may be short or long. You share beautiful children together who wear sandals in the snow, and fur hats in sunshine, enjoy that aspect, I see you smiling with this whimsy very soon.
You have cut the rope to be your own man and father, which lets WW be free to be her own woman and mother.
V
It's been 10 days. Update, please!
Wow, didn't realize it was that long. For me, nothing really that new to report. I'm feeling fine and have definitely found my groove. Thinking about the sitch makes me feel sad, but it's not consuming at all. More of that feeling you have when you hear a sad story, not like I've lived through it. I can tell my next step is to work on forgiveness, not for the pain she's inflicted on me; but more of destroying f our family. I look back and the struggles she was dealing with internally never manifested itself in front of me or the kids. So while I struggle to understand, the kids see what seemed to be a happy relationship crumble in front of them. I'm sure they will struggle with that for a long time. I guess I learned what marriage was seeing my parents go through struggles, arguments and compromise as well as all of the good things. Hopefully my kids will be able to learn that somehow.
As far as dating, it's going well. It seems very balanced as we both see that we have our own sitches to deal with, but are there to support each other. It's very much a take it slow type of thing as we both realize that the dating priority is lower down on the list with ourselves, kids, work and generally life all requiring a lot of our focus. In saying that, the time together is very nice and comfortable, friendly and relaxing.
With WW, I'm taking a new approach of just trying to interact (via email) as I would a babysitter. Sharing information about the kids, and their plans only. We haven't verbally spoke since the tax fiasco back in April on her own accord. I usually say I'm willing to discuss kids things in person at the end of of emails, but it's apparent she probably thinks this level of interaction is just fine. I don't know what is going on with OM, nor do I really care right now. I do know from the kids that WW takes the kids over to play with OM, his GF and their son. It infuriates me, but what can I do. It's sad to see her give everything up to be someone's second choice. I can't control that though, hopefully she figures out how to learn and thrive from the sitch.
Got a call from my L yesterday, WW L requested from them my financial information. Looks like the process has started. WW can actually file on August 13th (one year separated.) as much as this reopens the wound, I know that the Wife I want back was gone sometime ago. The person she has become is not someone that I could re-establish a relationship with. I would have been there for her if she had left me in on her struggles. I believe she knew that and didn't want to nor does she want to get help even now. Little I hear, she's miserable and complains and generally not happy. I hope she figures out what she wants and what makes her happy. She'll have to look inside first.
Hi MCS,
That seems like a healthy position for you to be in and good for moving forward with your life. you just need to keep setting a good example to your kids
Well, it took a couple of days, but read through your whole sitch from start to finish, all the way from the first post. Sort of like a marathon TV watching session. I have to say, I'm a little disappointed to hear that your WW still seems so lost. I started reading your story because it is similar to mine, and of course I was hoping for a fairy tale ending. But I realize that not every M works out in the end. The good news is that you seem to be doing great, and have become a fantastic father for those two kids. I'm working on that aspect of my life as well. I hope that things continue to improve for you and your family, and will be watching for updates.
Thanks for the updates, MCS, Your section about the general sadness resonates with me, although I might be a little less distant from it than you are. I think one factor is that my dating situation is different from yours. It sounds like you have found a partner, if not for life, at least enough to invest in a little at the moment. This sounds more like the place of a girlfriend, something that can partly fill the space occupied by your WW in the past.
I hope that you're also doing good at work. I seem to recall a time when it was difficult to keep your focus and productivity. as for WW, what can we do? It seems to me like the distance that you put between her and your emotions is healthy. Time will do the rest, hopefully.
Dwh,
Ugh, I'm sorry about your sitch. (As you probably read) I was very much in the same place as you. I never thought I would be able to find a light at the end of the the tunnel. While I'm not sure if "normalcy" will ever be the same for at least the short term, I also see that I'm not defined by my marriage, which was a big step. I still hope that she can find what makes her happy and grows from this whole messy and sad situation. However, things for you will get better regardless of the outcome. You've found the right place on the inter web to be and this forum has been a godsend and a blessing for so many months. Be kind to yourself.
Also, looking back through my sitch, do you see where it turned for me? I think I know, but would be interested in seeing if I conveyed it on the boards.
Laatly, I never understood when people still had hope when the sitches seem to go the way of mine. However, living for the day; the future, regardless of whether she gets out of this or not doesn't seem nearly as scary.
When did it turn for you????? The suspense is killing me!!!
I may not have explained it all, but it was definitely during the tax issue. I tried EVERYTHING possible after she changed her mind to try and get her to file together like we originally planned. She chose not to, lost money and then told me I was trying to pull one over. She was yelling and screaming at me in front of D4 and I asked if I was, why did I try 7 different times to say it was a better idea to file together. She just stared at me with absolutely no response.
At that very moment, I realized that no matter what she was going to blame me; even if I was trying to do the right thing. The last little bit of blaming myself for what happened melted away and I realized right there this was not the person I married. She was totally self absorbed and selfish. She turned off her entire life, all of her closest friends she stopped interacting with, helping me realize that the issues were not mine, but hers and hers to address or ignore. Nothing I could do can convince her to do that.
I just knew right there that "I" didn't know this person anymore. I was just talking to one of her former close friends and she said she just wanted at some point the "caring, kind, compassionate WW" to find her way back. That the person she has become is so sad. I wholeheartedly agree.
So, I got served with papers. Have met with my lawyer and will start working out how much I need to pay her to buy her out of the house. For the kids, she put in the agreement the same schedule as we have now. Me the weekdays, her the weekends. I'm sure we'll tweak it for some days for me to have a weekend once a month.
I really don't know how WW is doing or what she's doing. Still the bare minimum contact, even about the kids. I wrote some stuff in the agreement to improve it, but I don't think she feels there's a problem.
For me, I'm doing fine. I'm still in a relationship with another LBS and it's going good. We both seem to be on the same page with not rushing into anything, working through our sitchs individually, focus on our kids, etc. all the stuff that seems to be conservative and right given the circumstances. I've gotten to the acceptance phase and my life 'feels' normal day to day. There's still a lot of work I need to do for myself, but I can see I'm going to be just fine out of all of this. I've become the rock for my kids, their stability, I've accepted the things I can't control, and have made peace with myself that the things in the marriage that I own we're not the cause of what happened. What it was was a normal marriage with one person struggle herself and not asking (anyone) for help. There wasn't any way I could address what she never told me was bothering her.
I hope she gets the help she needs to be okay with her decisions. But I think the fantasy had not burst for her and is still getting fooled by OM that he's going to leave his GF. Until WW sees this for what it is, she'll continue down the cheese less tunnel that got her here. If anything it's a sad story of someone having everything going for her, but she couldn't reconcile with her inner struggles. I wish her the best and hope we can work the communication with regards to the kids out in due time.
Wow MCS.
Thanks for the update. What a year it has been.
I see it's been two months, so you may have checked out from this community, but I want to say goodbye. You've been a brother in arms in this struggle and I'm glad to see that you've reached a good place in your life.
Mozzo,
Still checking in, although not really reading many posts as I was. To say everything is back to normal would be a lie; but life as a whole has seemed to be balanced out. The pain is muted, but still there. WW is still wayward, not sure if she'll ever get back and if so, not sure I'll be able to see it. I know she's still struggling and now seems to be retracted into a shell, but this is only the little glimpses I get from things kids tell me in passing. So much more, I feel bad for her and the struggles she is having. Our communication has only barely, slightly improved. That's still my focus, to see if we can get to a point where we can co-parent. However, I've relegated to understanding that needs to be her decision. I can't press or she pulls back. So, I'm taking what life has dealt; even though I'm still sad for my kids that she doesn't want any interaction with me and her and the kids together. I'm being the best dad I can and see my relationship with my kids so much closer than it ever was before. I see I'm their stability and it feels good to be there for them.
For me, still dating and it's turned into a nice friendship getting each other through our rough spots of life. I see that each of us are starting to get the spring back in our step individually but sharing stuff with each other that only people going through similar situations can understand. In a sense, paying it forward from the support here on the board.
Mozza, I hope you are doing well too. There's going to be times that we look back through our lives and see that others have held us up until we regained out footing. You sir, will be in that select group for me. Our semi-anonymous friendship going through the pain is one shining example of how we are never truly alone on this world. I thank you and wish you the best too (I also will check in to see how you are doing)
I have read your thread and this is a path way that I am on I know I have to take the next step
Concept
So it's been a while. Not sure if any of the folks following my thread are still out here. Seems as if out of the blue (kind of) WW's fog has lifted. Looking back, it seems like a lot has happened over the last 4 months with her. I've had really no contact, so I just got a general feel from the kids on what was going on. I think she hit rock bottom. She bet on OM leaving his GF when she left me and I think after 18 months she's finally accepted it wouldn't happen. Anyway, I've noticed that she's been more involved with stuff with the kids since this time and then she started to contact me on going over the separation agreement w/o lawyers. She was adamant before to not do any of that with me personally. So last week, we sat down and all of the triggers and anger and all of the other things I've wrote seem gone. We had a (focused) but cordial 2+ hour meeting going through the agreement. We reached consensus on pretty much everything. In the end, we had some more personal conversation and she said that she realized how selfish she has been and put the kids and everyone else on the outside and distanced herself from everyone. She also apologized for putting me and the kids through that. It was very surprising given the last 18 months, but it seems like she's back to her personality from before.
Anyway right now, I'm just happy that the interaction is much better with regard to the kids and I hope she continues to heal.
Awesome. Take everything slow. Don't really stray from what you were doing but show a path back if she wants to walk it.
That is good her fog has lifted possibly. Hopefully you guys will be able to coparent now better. Seems like positive steps in the right direction.
That is good her fog has lifted possibly. Hopefully you guys will be able to coparent now better. Seems like positive steps in the right direction.
Yes, definitely. When talking, I explained how I view us co-parenting; which really hasn't changed since the beginning. During the thick of the sitch, she kept saying that there was no need to communicate at all other than email. Now she says we need to work together and make sure that we communicate about things, etc. All very, very good signs.
As far as path back home, I frankly don't think there's really any way that it would be easy. Not because how I've acted, but more how she has acted to all of the friends and family. Regardless (it doesn't matter at this point anyway) when she was saying how she was sorry that she had acted that way, I told her that I still just hope that she can be happy. I said this about a year ago and she accused me of lying to her. At this point, we just exchanged a tearful gaze at each other. I feel bad that she thought this is what was going to make her happy and so much was thrown away because of it.
Thanks for the update, MCS! I'm glad I came around to see what was up with you. I welled up when I read the news, probably because I wish I could hear those words from WW one day. It sounds like it's exactly what you wanted, namely more communication and better co-parenting. I must admit that I didn't know when we'd see this and that it might be never. It is very possible, as you say, that it happened because she finally gave up on OM.
How do you feel about D at the moment? Is it still affecting your mood? Any particular challenges? Goals? Still with your GF from the summer?
And thanks a lot for your kind words in your message from November. It's touching to know that you see me as a helpful person through these difficult times that we went through. I'm easily triggered now when I hear of a separation, especially one with a LBH, and I really want to help them. To know that I've done it somehow for you is very touching. I can say the same thing about you, as I see you in a core of LBH that went through the same pain at the same time, and I greatly relied on your virtual presence to keep my head above the water at the time. Thanks a lot!
By the way, I've
moved to "Surviving the Big D". Given that the worst is over, that it's been over a year and that I no longer want to R, I didn't fit in with the newcomers anymore. I hope you'll continue to give us an update, especially given the recent movements.
MCS
Somewhere inside your WW is a good woman and mum. She was before she went wayward and when the fog lifts I have always believed she would be again. I recollect she had been responsible for her siblings.
In the end it's always the LBS who lets go. I always felt this OM was a dilly dally and really not into a full on R with WW.
Unpleasant fellow.
I have always had some sympathy for your WW, slightly offbeat, arty and lost dressing the kids in snow anoraks and flip flops. Being a mum in her own unique way.
Just lost and in fog, a little like RDs WW.
I am still here posting away! Thank you for the update MCS, do drop in on Vs thread if you don't see a post, I would be delighted to hear your update.
I suspect you are right, the penny has dropped that OM isn't the big kahuna she thought and that MCS is the man only a fool would leave.
Next step is discovering she is a fool.
Keep us updated
Your chum
V
Mozza and all,
Thanks for the post.cglad to see we are both still checking it out. Don't lose hope about the commication. Over a beer, I can tell you that I know how everything seemed to go down leading up to this change of WW and it does not seem to have been a good thing at all. In fact, knowing how it finally came to a screeching halt for WW actually shows that her identication of her "selfishness" seems to be because the OM was. It sustainable anymore; not because of the kids, me, MR, etc. whatever it was, I'm just glad it (appears) to have snapped her out of it. Knowing this concerns me as I write this next paragraph.
So, looking back through the last post, the meeting we had is still on my mind. I guess I'm still confused with where I actually stand. We've had more communication via text and email than we every had before which is good. I went to my L the other day (by which she said I did a good job holding firm on my conditions) and in the end said I should sign it and send it back to her L. I said that I wanted W to sign first. I talked to the lawyer about OM and the reasons I pretty much know it is done (well at least WW thinking there is a R with OM) and the L then asked if WW has asked to Reconcile. I said no, she's still pushing things through and then L asked what I would say if so. Not that the L is a counselor, but she knows me enough now to know how I've felt. In all honesty, I'm not sure what I would want. It's a theoretical situation, but I still struggle daily with how my heart and my head feel about it. This all concerns me because 18 months later, I still haven't sorted it out.
With GF, it's still going good; we are really good friends. However, both being LBH's I see that we are starting to be in different phases of recovery and feel different about our sitches now compared to before. See my phase above and for GF, I think she's at the point that she's 'done' with her spouse.
So, I'd say I'm doing much, much better but am at the point that I'm just confused on what 'I' actually want. It's definitely in a place of being okay with whatever the future may hold, just unsure of what that is.
V,
Didn't see your post when I just replied, but it's good to hear from you. I've taken a hiatus from the board; but have felt over the last couple weeks the need to come back. Cause MCS is slightly confused and unsettled as of late.
I feel the same way (sympathetic) for WW, too. I think in some form, that is clouding my judgement of the reality of the sitch that lead up to her leaving me,
As always, your posts are impeccably timed, I didn't read yours before I posted. As my musings back and forth of my post are succinctly summarized by reading your last few sentences. They made me chuckle.
However, both being LBH's
Wow, heckuva a typo. I meant LBS
I love that word chuckle.
It has a good onomatopoeia sound about it. Like giggle.
How are those amazing little MCS children doing?
V
Hello all,
It's been a while and I had some free time tonight and figured I'd check out the board.
First, if you are new to this board and have no idea who I am, I'd like to say this.....
It will get better, I wish it was, but it's not like a sudden enlightenment by any means. Even now that I'm near the end of the whole DB process, while the result is not what I ever wanted; I see DB stopping the emotional tailspin that has in cases ruined people. I know more about myself, my strengths, my weaknesses, my resolve to protect my children. I see that while we got married together, unfortunately sometimes just an individual can tear it apart. While we all have faults in a marriage, sometimes those faults don't cause a divorce. Sometimes, it's things we have no influence or control over. It's sad, disappointing but we can all recover from it. It takes time, tears, self-reflection, confusion and resolve (amongst other things) but it will get better. I'd be the last to say perfect, but "getting better" is where I stand today. My heart goes out to all of you, no one should have to go though this, but your amongst so many wonderful people here in the board, it's a godsend.
So, for those that have followed my sitch....Some updates.
Officially Divorced: legal and finances settled. WW seems to be out of her fog to an extent. She's getting back to being the mom she was before all of this. Our communication is much, much better. 1,000 times better than last year. Although still not where I'd like it to be in the end; We come up with consensus' on things, coordinate schedules, have even attended things for the kids together. Pretty sure OM is completely finished. Not sure about anything else at all going on in her life. Although, She's still not reconciled with her family and friends about the D and affair and those relationships seem to be non existent. However, I see little by little she's starting to amend some things.
For me, I'm doing well. I'm not whistling while I work, but I'm out of the crisis. I'm Sad about the whole sitch for kids, for her, for me. It never needed to go this way.
In saying that, I look back and see very little that I would have changed going through the sitch. I recognize you all here and a great set of friends keeping my head on straight, going slow, steady and deliberate. I'm proud of myself staying that way helped lead to better communications and for the kids that was my one goal that I had some control over throughout this. Being together with kids and WW for certain events now, I see the change in the kids tendencies between WW and myself, others have seen it too. I see I was the stability for them through this, but I also see that WW is starting to re-establish that with them. A little hard at times because I need to pull back even more then and let WW gain that back with them.
WW was a fool to walk away. I look back and we had a good M, a good R, a good family, good kids, a good W and a good H. I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with any of it. However WW was fighting demons that she didn't share and with only surface communications (for whatever reason) it festered and was cancerous without me know. WW let no one close to her in and then OM came around. She got duped....big time. To this day, all she would have to do is ask and I'd try whatever it would take to work through it. Not sure why I feel that way either I'm emphatic or stubborn. Either way, it doesn't matter.
I don't know what is next for MCS. The future seems easier to swallow than before, but the uncertainty still wears on me. Struggling to understand my individual needs and my responsibility as a dad. Kids are doing well and I've set up a great environment and home life for them with laughing and love and caring. Although, I yearn for the daily companionship and knowing someone has my back. Not sure how to make that desire complement the home life and balance for the children. That's next step for MCS.
Oops. No more edit button
Emphatic = empathetic
Dang autocorrect
Moving forward MCS.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet.
V
Good luck MCS. Those who have been around since 2014 seem to be dropping off.