My wife left me 4 months age saying she needed a deeper emotional life, less negativity, and to always be treated with respect. We are together 26 yrs, married 17, and have a 12 yr old daughter. She wants to do a seperation agreement and wait a year before anything else. I have been controlling, judgemental, critical, you name it and I drank too much. Since she left I quit drinking and am in therapy to work on my issues. I have made many mistakes like pursuing in first 3 months but have stopped. Any help and I am grateful.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Have had a hard time with GAL and detaching, we were together so long, I still love her, but I understand why she left and am working to change these issues. She is on her own, there is no Om, does this affect how I go about treating her, for me a 180 is to be respectful and there for her.
Is there any advice on how to proceed when there is no affair. My wife left me and is on her own so do I do the typical 180 or go about it differently. Everything I read online has to do with om, ow, but this is not my case. She said she wants space, wants to always be respected, right now would appreciate my friendship, is open to some sort ov relationship in the future, wants to heal, wants to do a seperation agreement so something is in place and she is not so anxious. I was controlling, negative, critical, judgemental, drank too much, etc. My 180 is to quit drinking, which I have, do therapy to deal with why I was this way, and I am, and to support her. Is there anythinv I am missing.
Sorry to hear about your situation. Negativity, four months and no OM...sounds like we're in the same boat. I'll be paying close attention. Good luck to us both.
Hi Help 67
I'm sorry to hear about your sitch, and glad that you are seeking support for your drinking. Is your therapist also helping with some of the other areas you describe - critical, judgemental etc? Do you know what led to you being that way with your W? Have you read DR?
WAW's are pretty different to WAH's, particularly if there's not an OP involved. WAW's have often become miserable to the point where they have had enough. I recently read a book by Andrew G Marshall - My Husband doesn't love me anymore and he's texting another woman. He wrote a book about wives leaving too - and that may be worth a look alongside DR.
It may well be that your W will need a lot of reassurance about both your use of alcohol and your behaviour - over a period of time. I think she'll need to see that you have dug pretty deep and done some pretty significant introspection - otherwise she may fear a return to the same difficult situation.
What kind of contact are you and your W having at the moment?
I would suggest you do what she requested. Having a physical separation from each other can work for good, if you will use that time for your personal boot camp.
At the moment, I can't think of any of the 37 rules you should reconsider just b/c there is no A. Can you?
You may be concerned in how she will see your changes. Don't worry about that. Just worry about setting those changes permanently, okay? If you are changing just to get her to come back, then you will be back down this road again. A year is not that long to work on the changes you need to make.
Is it true that you did not show her much respect? If so, do you know why?
Have you read Divorce Remedy?
Thanks everyone for the feedback,
I am working with my therapist and reading a lot, the changes I am making are for me with no plans to revert to my old ways. It will take a long time for my wife to trust me as I have made many promises to change in the past,but always went back to my old habits. I think most of the respect issues were my problem and I took it out on her, but she wasn't good at setting boundaries and so it got steadily worse, I guess she set a boundary with leaving. We see each other 2-3 times a week exchanging my daughter, but that is brief, and we email about my daughter or the house. Sometimes my wife sends me something funny or interesting she thinks I will like via email, but i am not sure why. She knows I am not drinking, am in therapy, and I have been treating her with love and respect, she said I know you are making changes and that is great, but I still want the seperation agreement so something is concrete, since things have stayed the same for so long. I have made mistakes like promising to change, pursuing, etc., but I have stopped and am going to do the 37 rules.
I think most of the respect issues were my problem and I took it out on her, but she wasn't good at setting boundaries and so it got steadily worse, I guess she set a boundary with leaving.
This. A million times over. I also projected my own issues onto the W (and child) without even realizing it was all me.
We see each other 2-3 times a week exchanging my daughter, but that is brief, and we email about my daughter or the house. Sometimes my wife sends me something funny or interesting she thinks I will like via email, but i am not sure why. She knows I am not drinking, am in therapy, and I have been treating her with love and respect, she said I know you are making changes and that is great, but I still want the seperation agreement so something is concrete, since things have stayed the same for so long.
I would consider myself fortunate (relatively speaking) to be in your situation. My own W is stonewalling and actually said that she refuses to speak about anything other than official matters for fear that she would get pulled back in. Imagine..."How's your day going?" "You don't have to ask that anymore." Other than that, same thing over here: W acknowledges that changes have been made but is unfazed and continues to run.
All you can do is work on yourself and make yourself into the person that only a fool would leave.
My ex also never had an affair that I could determine.
Let me say that infidelity still occurs when she leaves the marriage, this was something that took me a very long time to understand.
It is possible that she had a fantasy in her head from romantic novels, not really something that you can compete with.
Keep posting and reading be the BEST DAD you can be
Looking back at my wifes emails she said at the beginning of the seperation that she wanted to get settled, do the legal agreement, and in a year that agreement could become the divorce. After I promised, pursued, she said she would be open to some sort of relationship in the future, I have to do the deep work long term, but she can't promise anything. Are these things that can change, is this part of believe nothing she says, because feelings can change. I know I am changing. Is there anything to add to my 180:I quit drinking, am in therapy to change my behaviors, treat my wife with respect, mostly listen and am there for her. How will I know if/when she stops leaving, and maybe puls closer to me.
Hello help67,
I'm sorry you had to come here but it sounds like you're on the right track.
It seems to me that what you need now is patience and consistency. There aren't many magic things to do in the meantime, magic words to say, etc. It's like the cake is in the oven and you have to give it time. You work on your changes. You know they have to become permanent but you acknowledge yourself that you have failed in the past. You should know that your best intentions at the moment might fall apart if your WAW were to come back too soon. You're still very focused on her reaction to your changes and over time, over the course of the year, you will start thinking about what it means to you, without her in your life. It's ok to acknowledged that you're not there yet, it's a process. You'll feel the change over time.
Have you read the Divorce Remedy already? There's a way to create a plan in there, so that might help you pass some time and get some direction.
Have you read DB or DR yet?
Hello help67,
I'm sorry you had to come here but it sounds like you're on the right track.
It seems to me that what you need now is patience and consistency. There aren't many magic things to do in the meantime, magic words to say, etc. It's like the cake is in the oven and you have to give it time. You work on your changes. You know they have to become permanent but you acknowledge yourself that you have failed in the past. You should know that your best intentions at the moment might fall apart if your WAW were to come back too soon. You're still very focused on her reaction to your changes and over time, over the course of the year, you will start thinking about what it means to you, without her in your life. It's ok to acknowledged that you're not there yet, it's a process. You'll feel the change over time.
Have you read the Divorce Remedy already? There's a way to create a plan in there, so that might help you pass some time and get some direction.
I agree, even if she wanted to come back it would have to be some time from now. I am still focused on what she thinks, and need to detach. I was closed down for so long. Now that I am sober and opening up the person I need the most is her, just one of the ironies in my life right now. I woke up in the middle of the night yesterday due to a nightmare, was alone and that felt like a bad dream, I wanted to fall back asleep because the nightmare felt better. Going to get DR tomorrow, I think I read it the first week, but will see it differently now, plus my mind isnt totally mush anymore. I am excited though to finally do the work I need to in order to be who I truly am, the person my wife fell in love with, once again.
I know one of the 37 rules is not to contact you waw, but to let her contact you, and I have been doing this mostly, though now I am only going to let her contact me. I know she has an upper respiratory infection and is home sick, is there anything wrong with me emailing her to see how she is.
See, that's why you need to read DR as soon as possible. That "rule" is for those LBSs who find themselves constantly trying to contact their WAS and not giving them space.
Those rules are found in the book.
[quote=MrBond]See, that's why you need to read DR as soon as possible. That "rule" is for those LBSs who find themselves constantly trying to contact their WAS and not giving them space.
I am reading it now, I am giving her space and am not initiating contact now, but if I know she is sick then why is ignoring her good. I ignored her too much when we were together so isnt this part of what 180 means. There is no om, she just couldnt deal with my issues after a long time, being there for her when she is sick seems right.
When she is sick, of course you don't ignore her.
help67 - I would also encourage you to create a signature similar to mine under your profile. It helps the community tailor its advice to who you are and what is your situation.
I would suggest you do what she requested. Having a physical separation from each other can work for good, if you will use that time for your personal boot camp.
At the moment, I can't think of any of the 37 rules you should reconsider just b/c there is no A. Can you?
You may be concerned in how she will see your changes. Don't worry about that. Just worry about setting those changes permanently, okay? If you are changing just to get her to come back, then you will be back down this road again. A year is not that long to work on the changes you need to make.
Is it true that you did not show her much respect? If so, do you know why?
Have you read Divorce Remedy?
I would suggest you do what she requested. Having a physical separation from each other can work for good, if you will use that time for your personal boot camp.
At the moment, I can't think of any of the 37 rules you should reconsider just b/c there is no A. Can you?
You may be concerned in how she will see your changes. Don't worry about that. Just worry about setting those changes permanently, okay? If you are changing just to get her to come back, then you will be back down this road again. A year is not that long to work on the changes you need to make.
Is it true that you did not show her much respect? If so, do you know why?
Have you read Divorce Remedy?
When you say do what she requested, do you mean give her space, treat her with respect,etc. It seems that there is so much contratictory info everywhere I look, It's hard to come up with a plan, plus everything my wife has said or done these last 4+ months makes it more confusing. She seems to be telling me what she wants pretty clearly: seperation agreement, space (she lived with her friend the first 3 months, moved to an apt close by me, but she has yet to give me the address for fear that I might pop by and invade her space, which I would't). She sent me an email 2 months ago about a guy who quit drinking and after 2 years drank again to celebrate getting a job, and fell back into it heavily. She said, "see, this is why you can't drink just one." I agree with her, but I wondered why she sent it to me, was it to tell me this is one of things she wants?
Last week she called and said, I know you are probably working tonight, but the Felice Bros.( a band we like) is playing and so far it's Jen, and then the message got cut off. I didn't ask her about it, but it sounded like she was going to invite me, which would be the first time she has asked me to do something. Is this a good sign. I know I should't be obsessing about everything she says or does, but at the end of the LRT, it says look for little signs. This is what is part of the contradictory info I am seeing.
So, as far as a plan goes, I am giving her space, she recently said I have been good at giving it to her, I am treating her with respect and love, and will work on the seperation agreement with her. I have been there for her when work interfered with her time to watch my daughter, as this is one of the things she also asked for. She has also had some family problems lately, and I have been there for her, and I guess what I did was good, because she said this is exactly what I need, I did'nt get angry or try to fix anything.
I am also not talking about myself when I see her,, I ask about her work, or about her tae kwon do class and I listen, validate and am interested. I wasn't very good at this for a long time, but I want to know and am genuine about it.
The other thing I saw was setting goals. What would be good goals for me as far as the R. Would her giving me her address or inviting me to her place be simple enough. Perhaps she invited me to the concert I mentioned and if so that would be a goal that happened, so maybe another invite to do something would be a good goal. She has asked me a few times to pick something up for her where i work, which is a food co-op, and I did and gave it to her when she dropped off my daughter. Is her asking me for a favor such as this a goal.
As far as myself goes, I definately need to work on my own goals, GAL. I have obssessed too much, but after 27 years with her I don't know how not to; I, however, have been good these last two months at not showing her any of this, I don't pursue, and I don't act anything but in a goood mood when I see her. I need to become the best dad I can be, that is my number one goal, but this is also hard, thinking about what my daughter is going through. We moved to where we are now 11 years ago because it was a good place to raise my daughter, and my wife got a good job, and so I have been working around her schedule at a job that is just that, a job. I did a lot of cooking, laundry, cleaning, childcare and now I have too much time on my hands. My wife would have to pay me support as she makes 3 times as much as me.
At 47 I am actually thinking about going to college to try to become a nurse. It would take me about 4 years, but I would have to be accepted, have to take pre reqs. The head of the nursing dept. told me many people my age go that route, and that they have a 100% job placement, so I will look into it further next week
Is there anything important anyone thinks I am missing; let me know, i am open to anything, I am not a know-it-all anymore. So I guess time, patience and the help of the universe is what I need now, which isn't bad as patience is another thing I need to be better at.
Any advice on how to interact with my W.. We last hung out two months ago, my invite, to watch a movie and have dinner as a family. My emotions got the better of me and I pressured my wife to work on the M, maybe it was too soon to hang out. I have not pressured or pursued, etc. since then. Do I ask her to hang out or do I wait for it to come from her, as I said in my last post, I believe she was inviting me to that concert she went to with her friends. Also, how do I talk to her in the limited time we have exchanging my daughter. I don't talk about myself, I ask her how work is or her tkd class, I make eye contact, listen mostly and am working on validating. Is there anything else I can do. We were a couple for so long, and I know she still doesn't trust my new behavior. It's been almost 5 months since she left, after 27 years together, in the grand scheme of things I guess that is not that long, and I need to be patient. Does that sound right, be more patient, she needs more time before she stops pulling away. I have treated her with love this whole time, she thought I would be crazy angry, I have lost my anger towards her as I realized it was all about me and the changes I needed to make. No anger=another part of my 180 and it feels good. Am making lots of behavioral changes for myself, therapy and hard work are paying off, I believe my wife sees this. I would love for us to do something together, so she can see this for more than a few minutes and we could have a fun, positive time together. So, Patience, Patience, Patience, would that be my best friend right now.
We last hung out two months ago, my invite, to watch a movie and have dinner as a family. My emotions got the better of me and I pressured my wife to work on the M, maybe it was too soon to hang out.
Here's the thing, every time you start talking to her about the relationship, you have pushed yourself back to the first day she left. Why? B/c you have proven you won't let up and just enjoy the little time you had with her. That tells her you are still trying to control and she can't really trust you to change for good.
You want ideas for R goals? Make them about what you will do.......not what she will do. How can you set a goal about another person's actions? You can't. So forget goals such as her inviting you over, etc. However, you can make a goal to not bring up the relationship. To go for xx amount of time without applying pressure. To snow your self convidence when exchanging your D, without the need to have a discussion. To see how long you can go without initiating contact. See?
Do I ask her to hang out or do I wait for it to come from her, as I said in my last post, I believe she was inviting me to that concert she went to with her friends.
Do not ask her out. She has asked for a year of separation, so act as if you are honoring her request. If she should invite
you then you can accept...as long as you can behave and not take it as some sign to pursue and pressure her.
Also, how do I talk to her in the limited time we have exchanging my daughter
.
You are doing about all you can. If you push to talk, then she sees it as pressure. It is you trying too hard, and it is a turnoff to women. It is better to look cool, calm, & confident, rather than trying to cram a quick discussion into a small amount of time.
You have mentioned several times about how long you've been together. I get the impression you are having a harder time adjusting to your new lifestyle than she is. 27 yrs. was a long time for her to endure some of the things she took from you. In comparison, five months is nothing. The hardest part for her will be in trusting you. At the moment, your changes look like a ploy to get her back. You've even said yourself that in the past you fail back into old habits. So don't rush her.
When you say do what she requested, do you mean give her space, treat her with respect,etc.
Yes
It seems that there is so much contratictory info everywhere I look, It's hard to come up with a plan
Do you mean here on the board or in different books, etc.? Give an example.
I know I should't be obsessing about everything she says or does, but at the end of the LRT, it says look for little signs. This is what is part of the contradictory info I am seeing.
But it doesn't say to obsess, does it? I don't see contradiction in the book, but you do have to rightly divide what she is saying. For example, there was a guy here who was saying the same thing about the contradiction in the book. When we finally got him to tell us which part, we discovered he was applying some things that was not meant for his stitch. I mean, there is a lot written for couples who are still under the same roof. There is some that applies to healing from affairs. Ironically, she has about one or two sentences for the M where the WAS refuses to give up the A. A ton of people miss that little tidbit. They keep trying to apply the advice she gives about healing together when the WAS has ended the A to their own stitch where their S has refused to end it. So do you see what I mean about knowing what applies to your particular stitch and what doesn't? Everyone is not in the same stitch and if you get in a hurry to get through the book, you will miss some of those things.
I believe when you reach the point that you stop trying to get her to change her mind (controlling) and just let up on the pressure techniques (pushing discussions in short periods of time) and focus on your life, you will begin to see some changes.
Ate you doing anything to GAL? This is so very important to your changes and overall development. We stress it all the time, but people don't believe it until they actually do it. Then they come back and say, "You were right about GAL". I think it would also help you not to obsess so much.
Thanks Sandi for your reply-lots of help for me.
So, since that day we hung out, I have not brought up R or pressured her, and I have not been initiating contact other than to see how she was doing this week because she had the flu. When we exchange our D, she does start discussion sometimes, so I will use that opportunity to listen and be respectful of her.
I am having an extremely hard time adjusting, now that I am sober (not a drink since she left, and that feels great) and am in therapy I am opening up and it hurts so much not to be able to open up to her about everything & anything. We used to be able to talk about anything, we both loved that about each other, even though it has been a while and now that I want to again with her I cant and it hurts so much. There is no going back to my bad ways, I know that and I know it will take a long time for her to trust it.
GAL is what I need to figure out now, so I keep busy doing something important to me, something that helps me grow, and something that keeps me busy so I don't obsess.
Also, what is my sitch. When my W first left she said she wanted to settle in, do a legal separation, wait a year and then it would become the divorce, she already got a lawyer. About 6 weeks ago she said she would send me a draft of the separation agreement for me to look over, and say what I thought should be different, I am waiting on that. Then she said I know you don't want this part to happen, but after years of things staying the same, I need something concrete so I am not anxious. Then she said the agreement would be in place for a year before anything else, with the plan I would like to follow, but she didn't use the D word.
There is no om and I am not going to date, I don't know what her plans are, but I think she wants time to process and heal, and not be with anyone right now.
Does this change anything as far as a plan or goals go for me. I will work on the separation agreement with her, in a year if she wants a divorce still, I will give it to her, what other choice is there. What hope do I have for these things to change.
First of all, get legal representation. Do not trust her to be fair or do the right thing. Her lawyer is working for her best interest, not yours.
You need to pull completely back. Let her live the single life. And frankly, I think you are limiting yourself when you say you don't want to date. Truth is, you are hoping she will agree to not date, too. But do not tell her you aren't going to date. If you ask her about her intentions, she will give some vague answer like, "I am not interested in any man right now" or "Who would I want to date?". But that is simply a smoke screen.
You want to know a little secret? The less you reveal to her about your personal life, the better. As long as she knows you are safely home pining away for her, then she won't worry about the possibility of another woman taking her place. If she has any feelings left for you, it will surface when she thinks you have lost interest in her and you're enjoying life to the fullest. If only the LBH would realize this fact, I think it would reduce his pain & suffering considerably. I am not saying you have to do something you don't want to do. I am saying she needs to realize she has put you out there as a single man. I don't think she has worried about that little fact one bit. You are there assuring her of your feelings and availability. Think about it.
I realize this does not sound like the 180's you had in mind. You are thinking, "isn't that why I'm here?". Maybe, I don't think. Just bear with me a little bit. There has to be a period of time between what you do to improve yourself and your life (in order to get her interested in you again) and the period when she is ready to R. When you are worming on piecing, then you can start showing those other things you thought you should be doing now. Does that make sense? There are steps in all of this working together. You can't get the cart before the horse or it won't go.
So, back to what I was saying. Stop living as though you are a married man. Start thinking like a single, free man again who can do whatever he wants. You do not have to give an account to her, b/c she dumped you. Your relationship status has changed, whether you wanted it or not.
What would you like to do, being free and single? Again, I am not suggesting you hook up with some woman. That's not all there is to being single. Besides, this may be your only opportunity to enjoy being footloose and free. Try to enjoy your freedom as best you can. And I hope you know I don't mean that in any offensive way to your M.
Time and space can create a feeling of her missing you, if you will allow it to take place. You really have not allowed it to happen yet. Missing you would be quite good for her. And those invitations you asked about? Do not pounce on accepting all of them. Sometimes you need to have plans that you just can't break. Do you get it?
Get your calendar out and start filling it up with enjoyable activities. Look at what's going on in your community. Think about some kind of volunteer work to help your elderly or sick neighbors. Make yourself get out of that house! Engage in some new hobby, or old forgotten ones. Reconnect with friends and relatives. Make new friends by going where the people are. Make special times with your daughter. Plan ahead for things you can do together. Have old friends come over when the D is at her mom's place. Have a guy's night out.
Set goals for self improvement. When she is ready to come back home, you want to be new & improved. If she doesn't want to come back, then you'll be ready and more prepared for a new R. (I know. You don't want to think about that now. So, do it to be a better man, friend, and dad.)
These are not the tips you were looking for, are they? You wanted some instructions that would throw you into action that got this over and brought her home. These are those steps in getting there. Until you do this part, nothing else will work.
Btw, I think it is fantastic that you have stopped drinking. I am sure she wonders if it will stick. Are you in some type of support program? I can't imagine what self discipline this must take for you. It shows you have a lot of inner strength. However, there comes a time for all of us that we need extra support.
I havn't gotten a lawyer yet, but when we start to work on the agreement if I need one, I will. Everything we have gets split down the middle pretty much, she earns a lot more than me and will have to pay me support, I worked around her schedule, and took care of the house, though she did a lot too. I do believe she will be fair, we will see, but she left not to betray me, but because I have been like I was for too long.
A few months ago when I was still trying to convince her to work on R she said she wanted me to date because she thought that was one of the problems, that I didn't date that much before we met, and I told her I wouldn't. So what do I do about that now, I really have no head to date anyone, it wouldn't be fair to them.
She only asked me to do something that one time, but if she does again I can tell her I am busy, and then do something else.
You said I could do the things I want to now, when piecing happens. What things, hanging out, talking? Does piecing start when she says she wants to work on R.
I did start volunteering at a soup kitchen 2 monthds ago? I finally made plans to go out, this Friday with some friends.
I am working on self improvement, changing all my behaviors is the biggest. Not drinking has been eady thus far, I think because I now equate it with so much pain, but I will always work on it. These are the two big things, I believe as far as my W is concerned. These are the things she will think are temporary, it will take time for her to trust these changes.
What would I have to do to pull completely back. I am not initiating contact, I am not asking her to do anything together.
You said I could do the things I want to now, when piecing happens
One of us didn't say that quite right.
I tried to give you examples of things you could do as a single man. A man who was not expected home by a certain time, who didn't have pressures or expectations from a spouse, one who did not need to check in with his W and give his agenda, one who can come & go as he pleases, can see whoever he wants, do whatever he wants, and take as much time as he wants. Have you ever lived alone before now? If not, I am sure it must be quite an experience!
Reconcilation starts when she and you can agree to the same conditions and she "wants" to really work on the MR. Once you reconcile, the piecing begins. Piecing means real work.
I am still unsure how to proceed, I am still waiting on her for the seperation agreement, the last time she brought it up was 6 weeks ago, I plan to drag it out as long as I can, this way as much time that can pass seems to be in my favor. The agreement will be in place for a year, I am hoping that by then she might not seem so sure about divorce.
In the meantime I am working on the problems I brought to the marriage. I am not going to worry about dating until we divorce, it is not something I can even wrap my head around now.
My wife has asked me for space, to talk to her in a respectful, interested way, to be her friend, and to help her with childcare when she needs due to work. Aren't these things I should do, otherwise its just me ignoring what she needs, like my old behavior of being selfish. I feel like if I totally pull away, she will see me as not changing, not being there for what she needs. I realize that it takes two to tango, but if it really was mostly me that pushed her away, wont she appreciate me being there now for what she asks when she needs it most.
I dont pursue or call or anything like that anymore, but I answer her, and when I see her I dont force conversation, I am interested and I dont feel she is turned off by it.
When she asked if I wanted to go to the concert with her and friends it was the first time she asked me to do anything with her since she left, and in her emails the last few times she has asked me how I am doing, arent these good signs.
I worked around my wifes schedule in a job since my daughter was born because my wife got a good job when we moved. She has a "career" and got a good raise and promotion 18 months ago, probably what made her say I can leave now. She will have to pay me support so I can make it. So now I have so much time not having to do so much laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc, plus its only me 4 days a week when she has the child. I am really thinking about trying to get into nursing school, it will be a lot of work and money is tight, but it would be doing something workwise that I want to do which I never did. At my age it wouldnt be that unusual, and I would find a job, I am in good shape.
Am I still thinking wrong, is there any chance, I dont want to quit or give up hope , I am willing to be patient, in time if she really u nderstands that I have changed, changed back to who I used to be, will it matter.
It's five months now since she left and I don't feel like I've progressed any as far as GAL. My family was my life, other than sports (playing & watching), work is just a job (35 hrs./wk.) and I am still obsessing and depressed. I am going to a basketball game with friends tomorrow night, so finally I am going out.
I feel I am doing well as far as my growth and behavioral changes; therapy, reading, and putting things into practice are working, as well as not drinking. I have not had a drink in 5 months and don't miss it or think about it; I have a friend that comes to the house every week to watch some basketball and he drinks and it doesn't bother me.
If I was like this before, my wife would have loved it; I am becoming what she had hoped for, I hope she sees it and starts to trust it at some point, and it matters to her.
So if I do better at GAL along with my growth, I will be busier & happier, I will obsess less, be less depressed, and less needy as far as my wife goes. In turn, I will not be so concerned with what my wife is doing, thus detaching, and this might make her curious as to what I am doing, and possibly draw her towards me. Is this correct.
If this is correct, then what would come next. If she shows interest in me, then I respond sometimes. I might hang out with her if she asks, I might be busy. Things would progress slowly, and no talk of the M or R unless it is initiated by her. If this is the progression, what comes next. If we are doing things together, and having fun together, then what.
In turn, I will not be so concerned with what my wife is doing, thus detaching, and this might make her curious as to what I am doing, and possibly draw her towards me. Is this correct.
You have the first part of that sentence backward. You have to detach first.......then you will stop being so concerned about her.
If you detach correctly and GAL, it should cause her to be more curious and interested. If you keep cool, calm, and confident, it should be effective in drawing her closer.
Today my W dropped my daughter off at 10 am. Before she came I went out to clean the snow off the car to make it look like I had driven already, maybe coming home from spending the night somewhere; on a Sunday before 10 am I wouldn't normally go out. My wife dropped off my daughter, I stayed in the house instead of going outside to see my wife, if she wants to see me, she can get out of the car and come in the house. When she came back to pick up my daughter, my wife was cleaning snow off her car, and I went out because I was going to work. My wife asked me if I had been out yet because the roads were slippery, I think she noticed the clean car earlier. Anyway, I said no, which was true, and when I did drive I noticed the roads were not slippery. Also, I was wearing my new glasses (got them after she left, I never wore glasses before) and my hair was nice, a little long and curly just like when we first met, it drove her crazy then. So she asked me how I was doing, twice, and I said good, said have a nice day and left for work. I noticed my wife had a big smile and was checking me out.
For the first time seeing her didn't tear me apart after she left. I am changing for the better, and I will hang in there and be patient because I love my wife and want to be a family again. If she so desires she can have an amazing husband who knows everything she desires, and wants to rock her world, otherwise I am beginning to understand it will be her loss.
I'm still here, 2 steps foward, 1 9/10 backward.
I'm dying to kiss my wife, to hold her, to tell her how much I miss her, how much I love her, and how sorry I am, how I am not the person she left, but the person she fell in love with, how I would do anything for her.
I am doing good at giving her space, I am doing good at supporting her as far as childcare, I am doing good at faking it around her, and I keep telling myself to be patient. I would love to spend time with her, but I am not going to ask, it has to come from her. I believe if we spent some time together I would be able to not push, but just enjoy. My W hasn't brought up the seperation agreement in 7 weeks, when she said she was anxious to get it done, the longer it takes the better.
Shared with my W some vegan canoli I got (were vegan) from a friend who drove 4 hrs. to get them. She loved it, said she would get some in the spring for us, maybe she will invite me to her place to eat them.
Going to play basketball tonight, get a good run in, and not think about my W the entire time. It's great exercise, I love the game, and the guys who know what I'm going through are great support. I play with a dentist who went through this 6 yrs. ago, sure would hate to have been his patient on day one.
My W emailed to say she wants to work on the seperation agreement in 2 weeks. I guess I have to, but what if I were to say no, would it make matters worse. It would be in place for a year before it could become divorce agreement. What do I do, keep working on myself, be patient and see what happens in a year. This is tearing me apart, I miss my W and D so much.
There are lot of things you can do to stall if that is what you want to do.
If she files the S papers - get a lawyer and there are a number of tactics to stall based on your state.
Again, even if you get to divorce, there are many many ways to stall it out, work on yourself and GAL.
Again, depends upon your state.
I am in NY. A legal seperation agreement has to be signed and agreed on by both parties, in 1 yr, it can be the divorce agreement, only one party has to file at that point. It's what she wants, so I will do it, but I will take my time. She could just file for divorce now, this gives me the year, maybe she will change her mind. I will continue working on myself, it's all I can do, but this is tearing me apart. All I want to do is love my W, but instead I have to let her go.
you dont have to sign the legal separation. Why sign it if you don't want it? Again, a lawyer can stall it out (not signing) and even if you for years. Time is on your side.
you dont have to sign the legal separation. Why sign it if you don't want it? Again, a lawyer can stall it out (not signing) and even if you for years. Time is on your side.
It's what she wants, and so I don't think fighting it helps my cause, it would be me not giving her what she needs again and me being controlling. I am hoping that once it is in place she will feel secure and stop pulling away, maybe move closer to me in time. I know time is on my side so I will take my time doing it with her, we have been seperated 5 months, say this takes 2 more months, and the year it is in place would be over 1 1/2 yrs in total. By then things might change, I know I am changing,
Today is seven months since my wife left, and after reading some posts for the first time yestereday, I might finally be letting go. Looking back, i realize I made a lot of mistakes to push my wife further away. I have done some good things too, but I wonder if it's too late. Early on my wife asked me to just be her friend, and i guess i couldn't. I am now going to be just that, a friend. We are working on a seperation agreement which could be a divorce in a year. Is it possible after all the mistakes i have made to turn it around at this point. We were together for 27 years, married 17, and i guess taking 7 months for me to finally figure things out isnt that long in the scheme of things. If I db really well from this point on can things change for the better.
My wife asked for some paperwork regarding doing the seperation agreement and she was going to make a copy and give it back to me. That was 9 weeks ago, but there has been no mention of it since. We hung out as a family last week going to an animal sanctuary, my wife invited me. We have also gone to a few of my D school functions together, and we have emailed many times, either having to do with my d or just silly things. Its now 9 months since she left, I havent had a drink since, am still doing IC, reading alot, and really listening to her. She must believe I'm not faking these changes just for her by now, maybe this is why it is taking time for the seperation agreement to be done even though it was so important for her to have it done by now. Any thoughts anyone.
help67 I just read you sitch and wow, Im so happy to hear that in 9months you have not had a drink and still no Legal separation, which is good, its what you want right? hang in there, you and your WW are getting along, Im sure she notices your changes, will pray for your situation for you tonight! hang in there brother!
Thanks. It feels great to have given up drinking, finally. I dont want the agreement, I want us to be together. I am working on myself, it is very painful to realize all the hurt I have caused us. We are getting along great, my wife initiates a lot of email contact with funny things, it feels almost like it did when we first got together. I am working on myself and learning patience. I am not pushing even though I wish we could do more together, iam trying to be there for her emotionally like I havnt been in a long time. There is no om so I think this is the way to go. Being there for her and really listening to her I think is bringing us closer.
Getting along with waw. We see each other a few times a week exchanging d, and interact by email. We hung out as a family last week and had fun. Ive had problems with mind reading and analyzing every word, but I also think there has been improvment. My wife intiates email with things she thinks I will find funny, she baked last week and gave me some, when we hung out last week she shared her ice cream with me. I emailed her last week to ask her how her tkd class went, she got back to me 2 days later, saying she was sorry she didnt respond and then told me how class was. It is taking longer for the seperation agreement to get done, which is good. When we hung out last week, it was her invite. At this point should I suggest hanging out or would that be pursuing.
I was thinking of asking w if she wants to watch fireworks this wednesday, can see it really good from my house and i will have our d that night. It seems that there are baby steps going on, she emailed me pics of d last night, we make each other laugh. I have not heard anything regarding paperwork for seperation agreement and it has been 9 weeks since she asked for paperwork. She has talked to me about problems at work and with a friend and I just listened and validated, didn't get annoyed or try to fix anything. We hung out last week as a family, her invite. So would me asking her to hang out be pursuing at this point, its 9 months since she left.
My sitch has gone from my wife wanting to meet in a public place to start seperation agreement which would eventually become a d, she wanted to do this months ago, to working on the agreement at our house where I live 10 weeks ago. I have not heard anything back from her in the last ten weeks about it.
In the last 10 weeks my w had health scare, turned out to be just an ovarian cyst, and she has had difficulty with some things at work. She shared all this with me and I was there for her unlike the past. We have had only good communication in this time, a lot of it initiated by my w.
The first 4 months or so I made all the classic mistakes out of fear, but I learned a lot about myself, and our r since. Maybe working on the agreement instead of trying to get her to reconcile has her hesitating at this point.
I have plenty of work still to do for myself, but our r is imoroving. When I read all the other sitch I realize mine might not be so bad. My w reaches out to me, shares with me and is concerned with how I am doing. The other day she asked me how my softball game went, when I told her we won she said cool. She hadnt cared about my softball for a long time, who can blame her, it took precendence over our m and I always came home late and drunk.
I guess now, keep working on myself, and be patient. Patience is key now as I so want to open up to my w and talk about our r, but I have to wait for her to initiate that talk.
I know I havn't posted a lot of details about my sitch, I was very confused and overwhelmed for awhile. I have learned a lot reading other posts, and I appreciate everyone who has shared, I know how painful it can be. If anyone has any questions about my sitch I will gladly respond. Between IC and this board I am getting to a good place inside.
help,
I needed to read your posts today. I've only been separated three weeks (two months since BD), and I suppose that I have been trying to rush things out of fear of losing my W and my D. I made another "mental mistake" today by texting her asking something I shouldn't have. Wanted her to go to a IC session with me. I got the response that I deserved.
Seeing that it took much longer than I have given it for things to come around for you, gives me hope that this will eventually make a turn. I suppose the difference is that I don't know if my W has ended her A or not. This is obviously a big obstacle.
How bad did it get between you, and was it very rocky at first?
Hoping that things continue to improve for you.
I'm glad I found you help! Our situations are so similar. I'm 163 days sober (pot and alcohol) myself today and am six months into a separation similar to yours. My W just got sick of hearing that "things are stressful at work right now, I'll deal with this next month" and the lack of true intimacy between us that having a substance issue brings - and took off.
One of my favorite lines to people is that I don't recommend sobriety and the emotional divorce in the same time period. Holy smokes what a gut shot. You finally feel every single emotion that's been buried for the last 10 years or so when your emotions are at their highest! Talk about a crash course in emotional intelligence.
Stay strong, it sounds like your W is still questioning things which is good. I know that mine still thinks I'm sober for her benefit (not true), and unfortunately this month on possibly bad information I made the mistake of letting her know I still wanted to be with her. When I have pulled completely away it's freaked her out a bit, but she's then come back and also said how she sees it as me being happier without her....double edged sword. I haven't seen her in 3 months.
All we can do is the basics - focus on turning yourself and keeping yourself, truly, as a man only a fool would leave. You and I weren't that in our M's. Quiet the opposite as our W's weren't fools, we were.
Have you been working a program? I went to AA a few times but it wasn't for me, alcohol wasn't my main vice, marijuana was. I've been working with Refuge Recovery, and Buddhist version of the 12 steps that doesn't really care what the substance of your addiction was, but gets after the underlying discontent that led to it. It's been more than helpful for me both with my addictions and my situation.
Stay strong, my friend. I sat myself down early on and told myself that if I had lose my W to gain my sobriety it was the heaviest of prices to pay. BUT, we both have long lives ahead of us and lives without alcohol will be far richer than lives with them. That's huge. Focus on that.
PP
I also smoked (pot), been straight & sober for 9 months. It was a long time coming, I wanted to stop many times, but kept going back because I didn't do the work. When my w left, she was scared to meet and work on the agreement unless it was a public place, and wasn't sure if she could trust me with our d. I was never physically abusive, but I had anger issues and she didn' t know how I would react. I have always been a great dad, I now realize that was not the case, being drunk, emotionally absent, and everything that goes along with addiction. IC, meditation, and reading has gotten me to this point, and there is no going back.
My w, a couple of months ago said she believes I mean it now, the changes I am making, but it is not about look at me I am not going to be bad anymore, forgive me and come back. She said she wants to live for now, and not worry about the future. She said she will remain open, but cannot make promises, and doesnt know what the future holds.
So I have to keep progressing, be patient, and enjoy the time we spend together or interact. It's very hard as I finally understand what she has always understood, and want that deep emotional, intimate connection with her again, we did have it, but not for awhile now.
Also, my w has work to do herself. We both come from dysfunctional families, her much worse than mine. She was never good at setting boundaries, until she did when she left. This time apart was probably the only way for us to get better. Keep at it, and we will all get better.
It was bad for a long time when we were together, we both needed this seperation to heal, and do the work. I decided at the beginning that this was necessary, I love my w, she was my best friend and that I would always love her and do anything to be back with her. This wanting to be back with her is what set me back and led me to make all the db mistakes. So now I focus on making myself better, and enjoy any time I have with her. I think it is getting us somewhere, we are more caring about each other, make each other laugh, we are becoming friends again. You will learn how to be patient, there is no way around it.
I also smoked (pot), been straight & sober for 9 months. It was a long time coming, I wanted to stop many times, but kept going back because I didn't do the work. When my w left, she was scared to meet and work on the agreement unless it was a public place, and wasn't sure if she could trust me with our d. I was never physically abusive, but I had anger issues and she didn' t know how I would react. I have always been a great dad, I now realize that was not the case, being drunk, emotionally absent, and everything that goes along with addiction. IC, meditation, and reading has gotten me to this point, and there is no going back.
My w, a couple of months ago said she believes I mean it now, the changes I am making, but it is not about look at me I am not going to be bad anymore, forgive me and come back. She said she wants to live for now, and not worry about the future. She said she will remain open, but cannot make promises, and doesnt know what the future holds.
So I have to keep progressing, be patient, and enjoy the time we spend together or interact. It's very hard as I finally understand what she has always understood, and want that deep emotional, intimate connection with her again, we did have it, but not for awhile now.
Also, my w has work to do herself. We both come from dysfunctional families, her much worse than mine. She was never good at setting boundaries, until she did when she left. This time apart was probably the only way for us to get better. Keep at it, and we will all get better.
We have mirror situations. MIRROR.
I agree with the space. I know she needs to heal from living with me. I truly do. I was never abuse either but was so inconsistent and just emotionally volatile. She told me she never knew what she was going to get on a daily basis.
My W was the exact same way with boundaries, and on some level I believe that her leaving me was the start of her ability to set them. That this was the most empowering move that she could make for herself and she needed that empowerment.
I've said this in my original post but I had a feeling that my W would leave me in order to start a business that she had tried to for years in our M. She's using her maiden name as the basis of it and I was OK with that and even recommended it when we were M. I believe that part of her leaving (despite all the BS I put her through) was that she needed to feel empowered enough to start the business, and to be the woman with the maiden name.
Long story short, she left me on a Saturday and her new website went live the following Monday morning.
That's not to take away from the destruction that living with a functioning addict had on her, nor the depth of it, but there's always a lot to these pictures. Couple that with the fact that my W came from a really dysfunctional family as well - and works at drug rehabs, and I know that there's a lot of time needed here.
Glad to hear your story help, I hope it continues to progress well.
PP
I invited waw to watch fireworks last night, but she was to tired. She sent me an email today saying she was sorry she couldnt make it, but that d had fun with me. I try not to analyze, but I find it interesting that she apologized for not hanging out, I read 5 live languages and found that ihave two, one being quality time together, the other being acts of service. I also found that I didnt speak to my w in her languages.
Could really use a vet for help right now. My waw just told me she is dating someone who is married, but it is an open marriage. They have known each other for a few years and they didnt start dating until after she left me, but I imagine it was an ea before that. She confided in him while she was preparing to leave. Can she be in a mlc, I didnt think she showed any signs of one. She told me she doesnt really know me because of my drinking, we have been together for 27 yrs, I believe she doesnt really know herself maybe.
She said she likes the way we have been interacting, and that I should date. She also said this doesnt mean we cant continue to build, who knows what the future holds. I have been changing, and have been there for her, but now this changes everything. I told her I was sorry she felt like this, that I did want to rebuild, but I want her to be happy, so she needs to do what will get hr there.
I dont know how to proceed from here, I wont be in an open marriage with her, but I dont want to walk away.
Any vets have advice I really could use it now, I cant believe I was so foolish to not see the ea my ww was in. Not sure how to proceed, I dont want to give up.
In the 9 months we have been seperated I have dug deep, but obviously my w hasnt. Her background growing up was really bad, and she has self worth issues, I didnt help that, we are very similar. To be with a married man who is in an open relationship shows she doesnt think she desrves more, but I guess its more than I gave. I am ready to be that person she needs, but I dont know how to interact with her now. What we have built these last 2 months is her cake eating. I know I must still work on me, she needs to "fix" herself. Do I pull back and just deal with child issues. Do I insist we do the seperation agreement which she wanted but it isnt done yet. I know she is confused, I know I still love her and want to rebuild, but how at this point. I appreciate any help, especially from the vets. Let me know if there are any questions regarding my sitch as I havnt posted much.
Sandi, I could really use your help if you have the time. Thanks
Thinking about sending my ww an email validating her reasons, letting her know I want to rebuild with her, but I wont be in a open marriage if she doesnt want to rebuild. Someone tell me why that is a bad idea, I guess I already know it is. Do I just go nc other than childcare. She said she has enjoyed the last 2 months of our interactions, just a way to keep me attached I guess. I am very lonely and confused rihht now, going to IC soon.
I feel like I am at day one again, like the movie groundhog day. My ww has not been mean to me as I have seen on this board, other than what she is doing of course. Why could that be, she was done maybe, maybe we can start over. My texts must sound like a newbie. Afetr all this, I still believe we are soulmates, time will tell.
I still love her. What if this is not a dealbreaker, as I fully understand how I contributed by not meeting her needs for so long. Does this affect how I proceed. I still love her.
Thinking about sending my ww an email validating her reasons, letting her know I want to rebuild with her, but I wont be in a open marriage if she doesnt want to rebuild. Someone tell me why that is a bad idea, I guess I already know it is. Do I just go nc other than childcare. She said she has enjoyed the last 2 months of our interactions, just a way to keep me attached I guess. I am very lonely and confused rihht now, going to IC soon.
She doesn't want to rebuild. Look, by her telling you about her A with a married man and how you need to be dating........don't you get the picture? And you want to respond by taking the blame for her adultery? Bad move, if you ask me. She has hid this for all these months and just as you think things are better, she informs you of the A. I think it is b/c they plan to be more public about it.
She already
knows you want to rebuild the M. You have apologized and validated her reasons for leaving how many times? She has no doubt about what you want. But this is the wrong time to be apologizing, validating, and taking the fall for the A. It is the wrong time to be telling her you want to save the M. She knows if OM doesn't work out, she always has you waiting in the wings.
Telling her that you won't live in an open marriage is useless when you turn around and admit it is not a deal breaker. The two of you have been S for for 9 months, during which time she admits to dating this M man. Obviously, she must think the A will develop or else she's willing to accept OM's open marriage rules (he claims his W agrees). So, unless you want her to laugh in your face (or the two of them laughing behind your back), don't send that email, please.
We all but begged you to get out and GAL apart from her, and we encouraged you to make new friends. Have you done any of those? It breaks my heart to picture how lonely you have been and thinking only of her coming back. How many of the 37 rules would say you actually applied? I am not trying to sound as if I'm your mother giving you a scolding, I want you to see how you seemly ignored our advice to butt with your own head. And the killer is how you really believed progress was made.
If there had been no affair, then yes, I would believe this was a WAW who left b/c of the terrible years she endured in the M. Even if you contributed to her misery/unhappiness, she still made her own personal choices, right? She may have been in a vulnerable state when OM made his moves on her.......but she chose from her own volition. So, what has progressed between you and W these past two months is called "friendship".
It will be no concern or worry for her, if you present her with this (shall I call it a boundary?), unless you know without a doubt you are ready to move on without her. Are you? You are too dependent upon having her in your life b/c, with the exception of D12, she's about all you have (according to what you've relayed in your posts). I am concerned you will accept being just her friend while she continues to conduct her A. And if you can live with that, and settle for being just friends......then that's your business. However, I still plead with you to not send that email, believing this will end the A or cause her to have second thought. It won't.
Hope, did you ever complete the book? You were on the board for a long time, when you finally admitted you had began reading it.
Thank you Sandi for replying.
I guess it has been an ea all along, and now it has progressed, maybe as you say to go public.
I thought we were getting somewhere, but now that I truly know about affair, I see it is just friendship and that is not what I want. So how do I proceed, I want us to be together, but I will not just be her friend while she carries on affair. She is not the person I knew, she is in the affair fog. To tell me she wants a deeper emotional life and then to be with a polyamorous man tells me she has no self worth. She has a lot of work to do for herself.
So I will read the book again, be better at GAL and detach better, this will help me detach as I don't know who she is at this point. But as I said I want us to start over, so what do I tell her or do I just act, and if so, how, as just coparents. I
[quote]Thinking about sending my ww an email validating her reasons, letting her know I want to rebuild with her, but I wont be in a open marriage if she doesnt want to rebuild. Someone tell me why that is a bad idea, I guess I already know it is. Do I just go nc other than childcare. She said she has enjoyed the last 2 months of our interactions, just a way to keep me attached I guess. I am very lonely and confused rihht now, going to IC soon.
She doesn't want to rebuild. Look, by her telling you about her A with a married man and how you need to be dating........don't you get the picture? And you want to respond by taking the blame for her adultery? Bad move, if you ask me. She has hid this for all these months and just as you think things are better, she informs you of the A. I think it is b/c they plan to be more public about it.
She already
knows you want to rebuild the M. You have apologized and validated her reasons for leaving how many times? She has no doubt about what you want. But this is the wrong time to be apologizing, validating, and taking the fall for the A. It is the wrong time to be telling her you want to save the M. She knows if OM doesn't work out, she always has you waiting in the wings.
Telling her that you won't live in an open marriage is useless when you turn around and admit it is not a deal breaker. The two of you have been S for for 9 months, during which time she admits to dating this M man. Obviously, she must think the A will develop or else she's willing to accept OM's open marriage rules (he claims his W agrees). So, unless you want her to laugh in your face (or the two of them laughing behind your back), don't send that email, please.
We all but begged you to get out and GAL apart from her, and we encouraged you to make new friends. Have you done any of those? It breaks my heart to picture how lonely you have been and thinking only of her coming back. How many of the 37 rules would say you actually applied? I am not trying to sound as if I'm your mother giving you a scolding, I want you to see how you seemly ignored our advice to butt with your own head. And the killer is how you really believed progress was made.
If there had been no affair, then yes, I would believe this was a WAW who left b/c of the terrible years she endured in the M. Even if you contributed to her misery/unhappiness, she still made her own personal choices, right? She may have been in a vulnerable state when OM made his moves on her.......but she chose from her own volition. So, what has progressed between you and W these past two months is called "friendship".
It will be no concern or worry for her, if you present her with this (shall I call it a boundary?), unless you know without a doubt you are ready to move on without her. Are you? You are too dependent upon having her in your life b/c, with the exception of D12, she's about all you have (according to what you've relayed in your posts). I am concerned you will accept being just her friend while she continues to conduct her A. And if you can live with that, and settle for being just friends......then that's your business. However, I still plead with you to not send that email, believing this will end the A or cause her to have second thought. It won't.
Hope, did you ever complete the book? You were on the board for a long time, when you finally admitted you had began reading it
So, is it too late for us then. Here is where I am at, and I will get my head out of my a$$ and listen. I don't want to lose her, I want us to be a family again, the right way, I want us to do that work together. So I wont send her an ultimatum, but what about the sitch I am in now as just a friend. How do I go about changing that dynamic without being ready to move on from her.
sandi2 have you written a book? I have spent hours reading your posts. Maybe that's as good as a book but I find you brilliant and informative.
Thank you again Sandi'
In some way me finding out about affair was a relief as I have not detached.
I have truly done a lot of work theses 9 months, I don't drink anymore, my behavior has changed, and I know now I want a deep emotional, intimate connection, and I do want it to be with my w.
So I wont send that email. Is it too late to do real db'ing now that we are in that friend box. I am listening and really need your help, so besides GAL, detach, an coparent, what else. Do I say anything to my w or do I just act db'ing.
sandi2 have you written a book? I have spent hours reading your posts. Maybe that's as good as a book but I find you brilliant and informative.
Oh my goodness! What a compliment! Seriously, it means the world to think just one person might benefit from anything I say. Thank you for your encouragement.
I have spent hours pouring through the wisdom that Sandi shares on this site. She is too modest at times which makes her contributions that much more sincere...you know she is here for us!!!!
Thank you!
[quote]Thinking about sending my ww an email validating her reasons, letting her know I want to rebuild with her, but I wont be in a open marriage if she doesnt want to rebuild. Someone tell me why that is a bad idea, I guess I already know it is. Do I just go nc other than childcare. She said she has enjoyed the last 2 months of our interactions, just a way to keep me attached I guess. I am very lonely and confused rihht now, going to IC soon.
She doesn't want to rebuild. Look, by her telling you about her A with a married man and how you need to be dating........don't you get the picture? And you want to respond by taking the blame for her adultery? Bad move, if you ask me. She has hid this for all these months and just as you think things are better, she informs you of the A. I think it is b/c they plan to be more public about it.
She already
knows you want to rebuild the M. You have apologized and validated her reasons for leaving how many times? She has no doubt about what you want. But this is the wrong time to be apologizing, validating, and taking the fall for the A. It is the wrong time to be telling her you want to save the M. She knows if OM doesn't work out, she always has you waiting in the wings.
Telling her that you won't live in an open marriage is useless when you turn around and admit it is not a deal breaker. The two of you have been S for for 9 months, during which time she admits to dating this M man. Obviously, she must think the A will develop or else she's willing to accept OM's open marriage rules (he claims his W agrees). So, unless you want her to laugh in your face (or the two of them laughing behind your back), don't send that email, please.
We all but begged you to get out and GAL apart from her, and we encouraged you to make new friends. Have you done any of those? It breaks my heart to picture how lonely you have been and thinking only of her coming back. How many of the 37 rules would say you actually applied? I am not trying to sound as if I'm your mother giving you a scolding, I want you to see how you seemly ignored our advice to butt with your own head. And the killer is how you really believed progress was made.
If there had been no affair, then yes, I would believe this was a WAW who left b/c of the terrible years she endured in the M. Even if you contributed to her misery/unhappiness, she still made her own personal choices, right? She may have been in a vulnerable state when OM made his moves on her.......but she chose from her own volition. So, what has progressed between you and W these past two months is called "friendship".
It will be no concern or worry for her, if you present her with this (shall I call it a boundary?), unless you know without a doubt you are ready to move on without her. Are you? You are too dependent upon having her in your life b/c, with the exception of D12, she's about all you have (according to what you've relayed in your posts). I am concerned you will accept being just her friend while she continues to conduct her A. And if you can live with that, and settle for being just friends......then that's your business. However, I still plead with you to not send that email, believing this will end the A or cause her to have second thought. It won't.
Hope, did you ever complete the book? You were on the board for a long time, when you finally admitted you had began reading it.
I honestly don't know how long affair has been going on but I imagine it was an ea even if w didn't realize, but now they are dating. If I had known I think it would have been easier to detach, not knowing I thought we were starting over, im a fool. ok so I know I don't want to give up on our chances of r, so now what. Stop being friends and just coparent and see what happens if I truly detach and gal. I do believe my w has no idea what she wants, and is very confused right now.
Real DBing? What do you see as "real" DBing?
I realize you feel hopeless at the moment, but you have shown what determination you have, and that takes huge discipline and inner strength. Look what you have accomplished with your self-improvements! I admire anyone who overcomes any addiction.......especially drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.
I am going to make this plea with you. You will have very tough times and may want to give in to drinking again. Please, have a support group or person who will help you get through without turning to a bottle.
Changing one's behavior and staying changed for the better is truly remarkable. Yes, you have accomplished very much the past nine months. So many people give up after just a few weeks. You will benefit, and so will D12, b/c you are a better man today. Some day, there will be someone who will appreciate and love the man you have become. Maybe that will be your W, or someone new.....IDK, but you have a future waiting. It can be a good future, although it may be difficult to see at this moment.
Before you set out to read the entire DR book again, please start with pages193 and read through that chapter. It is about infidelity.
So I wont send that email. Is it too late to do real db'ing now that we are in that friend box. I am listening and really need your help, so besides GAL, detach, an coparent, what else. Do I say anything to my w or do I just act db'ing
I would not initiate an explanation to your W. You need to pull completely out of her life, and exchange child visitation with a business like manner, without trying to spend time and talk to the W. If she calls or emails you, respond if it concerns D12, but do not engage in conversation. If she should invite you to meet her or asks what's wrong, calmly tell her, "Considering you are in an affair, there is no point in our visiting each other. I will not be in an open M and I won't be settle for just being your friend while you conduct your A". "I plan to be civil and respectful, as you are the mother of my child, but as things stand now, I will not pursue any relationship with you, other than co-parenting our child".
This statement may need to come sooner than you think, so memorize it. Give her no promises of always being there for her, or that you will always love her, etc. Those type of statements should not be made during this time she is involved with OM. Everything has changed since learning of her A, and she needs to get the message that she doesn't get to have OM
and you.
I am not sure what you mean by "act DBing". It leads me to think you never fully understood the concept. Yes, she is in an A, and you are standing tall and saying you won't be in an open M nor be her BFF. There are other things you can do that still could bust the divorce. Begin with applying the 37 rules!
I have noticed she seems to leave a little crack in the doorway by telling you how you never know what may happen. Dangling just enough hope to keep you waiting in the wings, as her plan B. She really has to believe she has lost you. Understand? Until now, she had both men. OM will mess up, eventually, and be ready to move on to his next affair. She will have to see how she has ruined the M and lost her H for the OM. It takes a long time and she will need to experience some things, but there is a chance she will be turning back to you (but more about that later).
In the meantime, you let her go. No more waiting around to GAL. Don't continue being lonely.....thinking the M will R.
Here is a post that explains detaching. Please read it carefully.
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.
We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment (found around here)
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."
IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -
We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.
Real DBing? What do you see as "real" DBing?
I realize you feel hopeless at the moment, but you have shown what determination you have, and that takes huge discipline and inner strength. Look what you have accomplished with your self-improvements! I admire anyone who overcomes any addiction.......especially drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.
I am going to make this plea with you. You will have very tough times and may want to give in to drinking again. Please, have a support group or person who will help you get through without turning to a bottle.
Changing one's behavior and staying changed for the better is truly remarkable. Yes, you have accomplished very much the past nine months. So many people give up after just a few weeks. You will benefit, and so will D12, b/c you are a better man today. Some day, there will be someone who will appreciate and love the man you have become. Maybe that will be your W, or someone new.....IDK, but you have a future waiting. It can be a good future, although it may be difficult to see at this moment.
Before you set out to read the entire DR book again, please start with pages193 and read through that chapter. It is about infidelity.
[quote]So I wont send that email. Is it too late to do real db'ing now that we are in that friend box. I am listening and really need your help, so besides GAL, detach, an coparent, what else. Do I say anything to my w or do I just act db'ing
I would not initiate an explanation to your W. You need to pull completely out of her life, and exchange child visitation with a business like manner, without trying to spend time and talk to the W. If she calls or emails you, respond if it concerns D12, but do not engage in conversation. If she should invite you to meet her or asks what's wrong, calmly tell her, "Considering you are in an affair, there is no point in our visiting each other. I will not be in an open M and I won't be settle for just being your friend while you conduct your A". "I plan to be civil and respectful, as you are the mother of my child, but as things stand now, I will not pursue any relationship with you, other than co-parenting our child".
This statement may need to come sooner than you think, so memorize it. Give her no promises of always being there for her, or that you will always love her, etc. Those type of statements should not be made during this time she is involved with OM. Everything has changed since learning of her A, and she needs to get the message that she doesn't get to have OM
and you.
I am not sure what you mean by "act DBing". It leads me to think you never fully understood the concept. Yes, she is in an A, and you are standing tall and saying you won't be in an open M nor be her BFF. There are other things you can do that still could bust the divorce. Begin with applying the 37 rules!
I have noticed she seems to leave a little crack in the doorway by telling you how you never know what may happen. Dangling just enough hope to keep you waiting in the wings, as her plan B. She really has to believe she has lost you. Understand? Until now, she had both men. OM will mess up, eventually, and be ready to move on to his next affair. She will have to see how she has ruined the M and lost her H for the OM. It takes a long time and she will need to experience some things, but there is a chance she will be turning back to you (but more about that later).
In the meantime, you let her go. No more waiting around to GAL. Don't continue being lonely.....thinking the M will R.
Here is a post that explains detaching. Please read it carefully.
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.
We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment (found around here)
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."
IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -
We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.
THank you ,
I have battled giving up drinking and smoking for many yrs, there is no going back. Last night was the worst night of my life, even worse then when she left, but I have no desire to go backwards anymore. I guess if last night remains my worst night, my future is good.
I see my w a few times a week exchanging d so yes, the statement will come soon. I guess this will move things forward in some way, we still have not done the separation agreement, my w will definitely have some reaction to me pulling back after being a friend these last 3 months, I wish I knew about affair sooner, but nothing can be done about that now.
By acting db'ing I just meant do it, and don't say im doing it. Its not a typical affair as om is in open marriage so I don't know if he will mess up, maybe my w will wake up. My w and d are both in a tkd class with him. I worry about my d.
I will post as things develop, and read chapter in dr.
I have come to understand I didn't meet my w emotional needs, I was closed for a long time. She said last night she feels as if she doesn't know me, but I think there was some projection, anyway believe none of what she says right.
How is my sitch different, if it is, because of my drinking, and being emotionally closed and controlling. Is there a point where open communication of my true feelings come into play, or does it have to wait for my w to commit to us.
Sandi thanks again,
So I just am having a problem getting past one thing. I realize it takes two, and my w has some blame for m failing. I was the one who drank too much, was controlling and closed emotionally. She wanted me to get help, she wanted to get counseling, but I was blind. I never communicated well. My w now feels accepted and validated and connected and I realize she doesn't want these things from me as a h now. But back to my feelings, now that I have found them, can I articulate in the statement in anyway that ive learned a lot, and one of those things is that I wanted a deeper intimate, emotional connection with her, we did have it at one point.
Hey Help,
I'm not Sandi. At all. But our situations are similar. Here's the conclusion that I've come to, maybe it will help you.
"Healing happens on the injured party's timeline." or something like that. When I read that it helped me understand why after week 1 of my own sobriety my W wasn't interested in hearing about it. It wasn't that I had made the decision, and it wasn't even that she didn't believe it would stick. It was that she needed to do her own healing before she could hear it.
We want to cram our newfound sobriety and emotional availability down our W's throats since it's what they begged for for so long and now we have available to them. But they don't want to hear it yet.
You can tell her, I told my W twenty times, but she kept walking. Time is a huge healer. Time is also a true test. What's missing from your W belief about you is time. Right now she thinks this is all a scam, you changed just to get her back, but slowly you'll just go back to your own ways. My W asked for intimacy too, begged for it, took us to a couples retreat and said our M was amazing for the next three weeks...but old habits die hard.
Your W asked and you turned her down. It's a hard pill to swallow for us both. Had we known it would end in BD we would have moved mountains, but it shouldn't have come to that. We should have recognized their pain and looked at ourselves as a way to ease it. We didn't.
I'm six months into a separation and still haven't had the chance to say to my W what you want to say, not in any manner that she will hear it. Not without a whole host of post BD walls being in the way of my message and her heart.
Remember that you're on your timeline, she's on hers.
Hey Help,
I'm not Sandi. At all. But our situations are similar. Here's the conclusion that I've come to, maybe it will help you.
"Healing happens on the injured party's timeline." or something like that. When I read that it helped me understand why after week 1 of my own sobriety my W wasn't interested in hearing about it. It wasn't that I had made the decision, and it wasn't even that she didn't believe it would stick. It was that she needed to do her own healing before she could hear it.
We want to cram our newfound sobriety and emotional availability down our W's throats since it's what they begged for for so long and now we have available to them. But they don't want to hear it yet.
You can tell her, I told my W twenty times, but she kept walking. Time is a huge healer. Time is also a true test. What's missing from your W belief about you is time. Right now she thinks this is all a scam, you changed just to get her back, but slowly you'll just go back to your own ways. My W asked for intimacy too, begged for it, took us to a couples retreat and said our M was amazing for the next three weeks...but old habits die hard.
Your W asked and you turned her down. It's a hard pill to swallow for us both. Had we known it would end in BD we would have moved mountains, but it shouldn't have come to that. We should have recognized their pain and looked at ourselves as a way to ease it. We didn't.
I'm six months into a separation and still haven't had the chance to say to my W what you want to say, not in any manner that she will hear it. Not without a whole host of post BD walls being in the way of my message and her heart.
Remember that you're on your timeline, she's on hers.
Detach, and patience, patience. Maybe me removing myself from my w life will help her heal and do the work she needs to. I think this is part of why I am having a hard time with telling her I will only coparent with her why she is figuring it out. It seems harsh and uncaring which is what I have been to her for so long. It will take a lot of time, we were together so long, so I better gal.
I don't want to give up, I really believe we are meant to be with each other, only it will be right this time. We have so much in common, and so many parallels in our lives. We discovered that when we were six yrs old our families vacationed at the same place, cabins at lake George, the same week and the entire time we each played with someone of the opposite sex. The girl had a lot of freckles, like my w. I truly believe it was us, we then met in college 14 yrs later. I believe I have always known her, so now I have to let her go again, its the hardest thing I have ever had to do. When does the crying stop.
I realize it takes two, and my w has some blame for m failing.
I both agree and disagree. I will say that you are responsible for you and your W is responsible for herself. My H is a compulsive gambler (amount other compulsions) and a drinker and our M broke down, I walked away in the end. am I responsible for that? Yes of course that decision was mine alone and I hold myself accountable for it. .
I was the one who drank too much, was controlling and closed emotionally.
It is a big step to say this and shows to others that you understand your issues which is important.
She wanted me to get help, she wanted to get counseling, but I was blind. I never communicated well.
Addiction is tough stuff, and communication in these circumstances takes more than IC
My w now feels eyeaccepted and validated and connected and I realize she doesn't want these things from me as a h now.
Your W has had to go into survival mode.
But back to my feelings, now that I have found them, can I articulate in the statement in anyway that ive learned a lot, and one of those things is that I wanted a deeper intimate, emotional connection with her, we did have it at one point.
------------------------------------------
There is a great deal to recovery for the addict and compulsive. Please know that there is as much recovery required for the spouses and loved ones of the addict.
At some of the Gamanon meetings I go to, I hear the enormous damage done to the lives of the partners. The compulsive says 'I have changed, believe in me now' and '' I have drawn myself a line' so trust me and ignore the addiction.
It isn't that easy.
The damage done an be allmost irreparable, and recovery for partners and loved ones is slow, very very slow and in their time not that of the addict or compulsive.
The one thing that you have the power to influence is your own recovery, a big enough task. Listen to PP, there is a man who has walked the talk, someone I respect greatly.
There is a very long journey ahead, take your time.
V
Thank you for your reply v,
This is my struggle then. My w should have left me sooner, but she didn't, she has her own issues and is also very caring and forgiving.
She is also very smart, and so I don't know how much of a fog she is truly in.
When she left I told her day one, I would be the h I knew I could be and prayed she didn't give up. She said I would have to do the deep work long time, but she would not promise anything, how could she. Months later she said its not about "look I am acting better, forgive me, lets get back together" She said she knows I am doing good work, and hopes it is for my own sake. She says we are family, have this long history and she will always love me, but I know she needs to heal on her time and I cant help her. So I know how Sandi worded how I should tell her I wont be in an open m, but I am wondering if it is me being harsh again and she will think these last few months when we were getting closer as friends as me just doing it to get her back. I was doing it because I feel it, I love her, and want us to heal and live an amazing life together as a family again, I know in my heart, all my being that I have changed and will keep improving even though she cant know that yet.
So is there a different way for me to word it because of my sitch. I love her, she was my best friend once, I don't want to hurt her anymore.
Honestly, I want to understand all I can about where I am at and I don't want to play games with my w or hurt her anymore. I also don't want to give up on us, she dealt with a lot, but I believe that we are here to be together and not give up on each other, the three of us, me, my w and d. My w told me it would have to be a new beginning, and these last few months felt like that, of course I didn't know about the om. I still don't know the whole timeline, but I believe it has at least been an ea for awhile, and she said dating but I don't know if its a pa yet. My w needed that connection. Do I ask her about timeline or at this point it doesn't matter. So I know Sandi you are looking at it from the affair side, but does the addiction and my behavior change the wording. Has anyone ever heard of people in this sitch that were friends and got back as it evolved or is there reasons why this is impossible. Again I only want to understand all I can, and I appreciate everyones help. I sound like a newbie I guess as maybe I still am detached and needy and this is why we cant be friends now, but is this the way to tell her.
I guess the pain, this path is all necessary. I don't want it to go away magically, I want to work through this, its the only way. So Gal, what do I want to do. I work at this point 35 hrs a week, I worked around w schedule for childcare purposes. I guess we didn't spend enough quality time together. I play softball on Monday night. I have my d almost a few days, she is busy but we have time, I have to wake up from my funk and be a better dad and do more with her. She does so much with w on weekend, but I cant be there now. I am learning guitar, I have tried and given up in the past, but I wont give up now. Money is tight or there would many things I would try. I don't know how things will progress with w and separation agreement, and the house where I live. My w got a big raise last year and makes considerably more than me, she will have to pay me support. I volunteered at a soup kitchen, for the first three months after bd, I can do that again. I am lonely, but not as much, I am learning to like myself again. I will make it, me, but I also believe I will be in the piecing forum one day with my w. Thanks everyone who posts, it helps me more than you might know.
Me again, posting a lot, feels like bd again. One thing I realized about my drinking, it was because the work hurt and I had no coping skills, or was ever shown how to live growing up. I was a very caring, sensitive person which is why my w fell in love with me. She is the same way, but she has always been. I got lost and just numbed myself instead of living like a man, and it made me mean because deep down it wasnt me. Here I am 9 months sober and finding that caring, sensitive person again, but as pigpen said I cant be that person to my w now. I guess thats why it feels good being her friend but it wont help us come together again. Another gal thing I will start to do is meditate. We have never been religious, but we believe in the universe I guess, something is there. My w has been good at trusting that, I am learning it again. This trust, this faith will help me get through, there is a plan for me, for her, and I believe for us together. But this week I must detach for real and say goodbye for now, I just dont know the right way to say it considering my total sitch, the addiction, the long history, my w dating, and us having a lot of contact because of my d.
Hey Help,
I hear you brother. Our stories are so similar. When you literally don't have the necessary skills you compensate in ways that you think are going to end up helping and in turn they take on a life of their own. One with their own set of issues.
I traded work stress and insomnia for a marijuana addiction. The marijuana addiction let me sleep and ignore the fact that I needed to change my work environment. Both solved my problem....and created many more. AND didn't let me address what was keeping me up at night nor what was wrong with how I was doing business. But they solved the immediate problem.
You've got to forgive yourself and as I think Toots said earlier - do the deep work. Whether that's with an IC, a spiritual advisor, a pen and journal, or a meditation mat, you've got to get to your chore and find what was broken. All of that plus time.
If you read my sitch, I found this board while on a two month sabbatical in Central America. It took me being a month into that trip (3 months of sobriety), a near death accident in the surf, and the loss of complete control of my surrounds (no power, no water), to come to terms with the fact that my addiction had royally screwed up my M. Up until that point I was still trying to figure out how being with my W had landed me in the addict chair, not how being me had landed me there.
You're on a painful trip, but one that I will tell you, if you're willing to be courageous, will come with tremendous insight. You've still got a lot of living left in you and figuring out these incredible introspective epiphanies is worth every ounce of the pain that it takes to unearth them.
Dive in my friend. Dive in fearlessly and see what's at the bottom of the pain. Do your diligence, turn yourself into a seeker of your own truth. If you do that, with no thought of how your W will react to it, your journey may bring you back to her. That's the only way to frame it.
I had to let my W completely go, fall apart, contemplate my own existence and whether it was worth continuing before I found some truth on which to build. I know now that without the real pain of that journey, any shot of reconciliation would have been worthless. My W would have sensed the insincerity on me, and felt it in her heart. She may not come back to me still, but I know I've done the work.
There's a big difference between abstinence and sobriety too. Abstinence is staying away alcohol - we can do that for years. Sobriety is learning what you were covering up with the alcohol. Abstinence is holding your breath. Sobriety is learning how to breathe differently for the rest of your life.
Are you working with AA or any organization like that?
Post all you want, I'll try to follow your threads and drop in from time to time.
So we are still married, and she is with an om, this is something my w would not have done and so I guess she is in the fog, and sandi is probably right. My w said one of the things she wants to do is be a good mother, but a good mother of a 13 yr old d doesnt date married men while still married. I cant fix her, I can only fix me and be the best dad I can. My d came out to us as lesbian last month, and I wonder if this is truly who she is or if seperation has something to do with it. My d doesnt talk about the seperation, so I dont know how it is affecting her. I worry about her so much. I imagine family therapy is not something to ask w about or is it, any suggestions. Also my w mother was the most horrible person and so I guess my w thinks she is a good mom at this point because she is still better than her own mother.
Pigpen, your words penetrate and help me in my journey, I can be stubborn and sometimes words dont do that.
I am doing the deep work, with IC, some journaling, and am going to learn to meditate, something I always wanted to do, I started a few months ago, but it got hard to do, I think I can do it now. I have learned a lot about why I got like this. Dysfunctional family, physical abuse from my father, my brother who was my life going off to college when I was 11. Lots of abandoment issues. So what do I do, I have the most amazing person fall in love with me and I do all I can to push her away cause this is what I deserve. There are other issues as well.I am learning to forgive myself.
Sounds like some trip you took, it happened for a reason. What woke me up wasnt my w leaving, but how she wasnt sure if she could trust me with my d. It broke my heart, my hardened heart, and there was no way I could live like I had been anymore.
Let her go I think is what will truly get me there, and I will get there.
I have been abstinent before, this is different, this is sober. Not working with any org., but I am not kidding myself, I will get any and all help I need when needed. IC, reading has worked now. I am coming to realize just how strong I am inside, and I do have a lot of living to do, and thats a good thing.
Help
I trust you are reading DR and DB, many of the questions you ask have answers there.
Sandi advice is rock solid and she is wise beyond measure.
PP and another poster here Joe (amoung others) have stories of addiction. Others of us have addicts in our lifves. Those who have walked that path are giving you very strong advice as they are powerful in their recovery.
Help become strong in your recovery, if you wish to have a strong M with WW or with another then this must be so. You must concentrate on you.
Read Sandi guidelines too, I have them printed on card and laminated. They are so important. My H did not even bother to abstain, he pretended then got wilful about his addictions. I left WH because of his addictions and the abuse that went with it, I am not wayward in that I didn't have an affair.
An affair by your WW is hurtful although less important than recoveryl, I know you see only WW with an OM, but these affairs don't last usually they burn out in between 6 to 24 months when reality bites. Being obsessed with an OM may get in the way of your recovery. The thing to do is to concentrate on you.
The most important thing is for you to truly recover and if that is what you are doing then to go deep into yourself and become for your own sake. Your recovery is the most important thing, sobriety and accepting your role. Doing twelve steps with a sponsor, finding a mentor who has recovered their M, and being free of your substance. I strongly recommend a 12 step program, when you weaken you can contact others, there is companionship and fellowship. Commit to that recovery with all you have, it is commitment.
WW is correct when in the throes of addiction being the best father is virtually impossible. 12 steps has step 9 atonement, this is the key to recovering your M but you can't do step 9 on its own, there is a reason there are 12 steps and not just one. This is a hard road to recovery.
I have myself walked the 12 steps to my recovery as the spouse of an addict, it may be a hard road but it's a joyous one.
Blessings
V
Thanks v,
I decided that Sandi is correct, I will go in that direction and use her words. I am going to go to an aa meeting this week, I have been hesitant because I am not religious as far as organized religion goes, but I am open and need to have a beginners mindset. I think I need aa for the direction and to make sure I am not fooling myself in anyway. As pp said I want to make sure I am sober, not just abstinent.
I have grieved for the loss of my m, and my best friend, and still cry for 9 months now, but we both need to take this journey on our own, I have always needed to find myself. No expectations, but I still believe we are soulmates.
Hang in there help67. You have extracted a post from sandi2 which is in and of itself an accomplishment. Very profound advice by vanilla as well. Bottom line for all of us is do the work to make ourselves a better person, parent, friend and potential spouse!
I realized i did do some good work these last nine months, but I know I have been dependent on my w for a long time, our problems so intertwined. I guess in a lot of ways I went about it with the main goal to reconcile, and that would not have worked. With om in the picture, it will be easier to detach and work only on me and not our failed marriage. I need to only talk about me in IC from here on.
My biggest supporter was always my w, she was always there for me, and I cant lean on her anymore. It's just me, its the only way and it scares me.
I became very dependent on my wife as well. That was not fair to her. We will rectify that. I think we all come here scared. I'm thankful for the insight that I am receiving here.
I realized i did do some good work these last nine months, but I know I have been dependent on my w for a long time, our problems so intertwined. I guess in a lot of ways I went about it with the main goal to reconcile, and that would not have worked. With om in the picture, it will be easier to detach and work only on me and not our failed marriage. I need to only talk about me in IC from here on.
My biggest supporter was always my w, she was always there for me, and I cant lean on her anymore. It's just me, its the only way and it scares me.
This is exactly where you begin your journey. By first admitting the truth to yourself, and then realizing what you were doing was not accomplishing what you really need. Then to be willing to do it.
It is okay to be scared. A brave person is not necessarily fearless, but they do what is needed......in spite of the fear.
This latest post you have written sounds more hopeful to my ears than just about any of the past ones.
Thanks Sandi,
Coming from you, it gives me hope that I am starting that journey, one step at a time. I had my d for a few hours this morning, we played softball, and cards, and drew. In the past when we played softball I would not be present, and I would be critical. Today it was fun, I was positive, and she did great. I also sat down and drew with her, a dog, in the past I would hide. I cant draw, it looked more like a duck than a dog, but she loved it, and took it with her. My d is a lot like my w, an old soul, very caring, I can learn a lot from her.
My w dropped d off and picked her up, but never got out of the car, so we didn't interact, I didn't think she would come into the house after telling me about om, but I had been going out to the car to talk when she picked up d since she left me. I wanted to show her how I changed, but it wasn't all real. My w could probably tell it wasn't all real, and what was real, she wasn't ready for.
I am so glad to hear how you are redirecting your focus. It is certainly not too late to build a wonderful relationship with D12. Learn what she likes, maybe find a common interest between you. This is a tough age for some 12 yr old girls. Just be careful not to treat her like a baby (most don't like it). They grow up so fast, and dads have a difficult time seeing their D's beyond a little girl.
It is exciting how your eyes are opening about yourself and the motivation you truly had. It was really about just getting your W back, wasn't it? That's the case in the majority of newcomers, IMO. It is a stumbling block to their personal progress. You were stuck and had your life on pause, but now, I believe you will be able to start fresh in a having a real life, and making changes b/c they benefit "you" and not b/c you want someone else to notice.
Great job today!
Thanks Sandi,
I could use your insight on my sitch regarding the om. Unfortunately I see him sometimes when I bring my d to tae kwon do class (my d, my ww, and om are all in this class together) and sometimes I see him where I work. I was friendly with him as I didn't know what was going on, so how do I act when I see him now.
I did all I could to push my w into this mans arms. My w is with a married man who is in an open relationship because he meets her emotional needs. And then he goes home to meet his w needs. Am I missing something or is this part of her being in the fog. Either way, its not for me to worry about anymore.
My emotions and my brain have finally caught up to each other, and I truly understand the difference between detachment and giving up, because I am not giving up yet.
My w didn't give up for a long time because she truly loved me, and I wont give up yet because I truly love her, but I will let her go now.
So my w emails me info about d camp. She also mentioned when I drop d off at tae kwon do class, which om is in, I could drop her off up front if I am more comfortable. She ended email saying hope your doing ok. I know, who knows what it all means, and I cant get caught up in it, but why is she caring how I am doing or if I will be comfortable. I still have not told her I wont be with her while she is in affair.
ok, ive been very sad today, I am not backsliding. I get it, she is keeping me dangling.
This A will burn out, only 25% of As last 6 months or more, and only 5% make it to 5 years. And that's when one of the partners is single.
You have time and space to grow and develop whilst that happens, to become a H only a fool would leave.
As Cadet says you have the gift of time to use.
A lot of posters get obsessed with OM, OW and POW/POM, that gets in the way of their own growth.
These Scuzzies aren't worth zilch. Drop D off in front and in your mind turn OM into something repulsive, like pond scum, slug or wart hog, then you can diminish his importance. I did this with one POW, I called her the 'fishwife', I have other posters use terms which minimise the AP, chose your own. The grotty thing you can think off, then add slime, snot and grot bags, to his grubby track suit. If you ever catch sight of this particular scuz you will have an image you can overlay.
That's how I did it, then OW did not concern me.
V
Thanks v,
I hope you are right, but it is not a typical affair. Om is married, but in an open marriage (POLYAMOROUS) its called. So his w doesnt care, he doesnt care if my w sees other people, and apparantly my w is happy. They started out as friends 2 yrs ago, they are in the same tae kwondo class with my d, and have a lot in common. When my w left she said she needed a deeper emotional life, so being with this guy, how does this give her that if she is not the only one. I am here ready to be her only one, to live that deep life with her. Help me to feel better, is this r with om bound to fail and why, because I need some hope now because I feel like I have none and I dont want to give up on us.
Even more chance the A will fail.
Casual far too fragile.
Complete scuzzy and down market.
About as deep as the water in the loo pan, and as healthy. I am not saying this just to make you feel better, it's the stats. Besides I believe it's so, WW will eventually want more and scuzzy will say 'you knew the score, not giving up my lifestyle'.
Of course WW may move on. So Help its up to you to work on you.
V
V,
Thank you so much for encouraging me. Tonight I played softball, my favorite thing to do, but it was difficult because I was thinking about ww, om, and d all tae kwon do together.
It is my night to have d so ww dropped her at the park and she got to watch me play. In the past she would not have come, I would have gotten drunk and come home late. W did not deserve that from me. The best part was after the game I pitched to my d and she did great, she wants to play in school next year.
On the way home I told her I love her and miss her when she is not with me, nothing new. But I then told her I was sorry that the seperation happened and that I know in the past I was sometimes angry, and I know she was a little hesitant with me, but that I was working hard not to be that way, and that I was here for her always, and if she wanted to talk about anything, she could. She said I was awesome. I hope that was good, I didnt think about it, it just came out.
Now we are watching a baseball game, so I gotta go.
What you said to your D was great. Have fun at the game!
Lovely words to D.
Now actions with love and your sobriety.
V
Having a hard time today, had a dream that i made up with ww last night, then i woke up, also had a dream I was in public naked for all to see, guess that one is obvious. Even sleep [censored].
I have a coaching appt. with Leni tonight. Money is tight, but I have to know i am doing all i can. Will work on a plan that i can stick to. Gonna have to have talk with wife soon about letting her go, only being coparents. Its a good thing breathing is involuntary, i keep forgetting to.
I am in so much pain. Very soon I will have to let my w go. I need a little hope. Our sitch is so complicated, together so long, the addiction, the controlling, critical, verbally abusive h I was. The background of my w I before she met me. The om which has been going on probably the entire seperation of 9 months, and me not knowing making every mistake in the book for 9 months.
With all this, after stripping away many layers of myself there is a place deep inside of truth, and that small place tells me not to give up on us, that we will grow old together. Please someone tell me it is not hopeless because I am in so much pain, and it is becoming unbearable.
Help
You can work on you, that is absolutely vital for everything. You know I keep repeating it and won't stop.
That my dear one is the most important thing you can do for yourself.
There is a difference between goodbye and letting go! You can let go but still stand for your M.
Imagine there are two people tugging a rope between each other over a ravine. Either can fall in, the moment they let go both are safe. Letting go means neither you or WW fall into that ravine. You stand perfectly still in the cool mountain air. You become effective again, no longer tussling the rope. You become individuals capable of navigating the mountain no longer preoccupied by the rope and the struggle.
You have let go. Does that mean you have given up on your M? Absolutely not.
You just stopped being pulled by emotions which are not yours, you become a man only a fool will leave.
There are no guarantees ever so no one is going to tell you there is absolute certainty and neither is anything hopeless.
It is going to be slow heavy going unless you let go and build for you.
V
HELP PLEASE,
I had my coaching call last night and am now more confused. My coach said I should tell my ww how hurt I was to find out about om, and that I believe and trust her that she will do the right thing and that I love and respect her enough to let her go. She said that I should keep building the frinedship we have been for these last 3 months, and that she is in a fog. I should tell her that this whole sitch has been a wake up call for me and that I am making changes for myself and d regardless of the outcome for us.
My best friend told me last night that my ww texted him and said, I dont know if you are aware of what is going on, I dont know if I told him anything, but that she hopes I am using my best friend for support. She wanted him to make sure I was ok because she didnt think I would talk to her for awhile and that I might hide.
So I want to do the opposite of what she thinks I would do, I want to talk to her tonight, and I dont want to hide. By hide she meant emotionally and not dealing with it. I want to open up and tell her something, should it be what the coach told me, Sandi it is very different than what you advised. I need advice fast .
Thanks everyone
I think as long as you can stay detached and keep your expectations at zero then you should do exactly what your coach has advised.
Also please start a new thread as you are now at 101 posts.
Thanks Cadet,
It feels right to do, time will tell.
Not sure how to start new thread, my w was the techie.
Not sure how to start new thread, my w was the techie.
Click on Newcomers
Click on New Topic
Edit
New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...024#Post2586024