Not providing a link to previous thread because I'm on my phone, and there aren't any major events to carry over from the end of the last thread. You can click my username and view previous threads I've started
I've been calming down a little bit since outlining my recent, relatively mild struggles a couple of days ago. Feeling calm, excited. Last night I went to a guy's night football party, which was great fun. I could have went with one less hamdog (...you don't want to know...had to detox with Greek yogurt and veggies today lol), but it was just what I needed. Tonight I went to a basketball game with a friend, his fiancé and one of their friends. Pretty fun night.
I have D2 for only the next two nights, then she goes back to WAW for the weekend since FIL will be in town to visit. I'm taking advantage and driving to VA to go snowboarding with my cousin. Can't wait!
Hey, Card, I saw your question to Ss about worrying about her daughter and I wanted to share a few things.
One of my best friends from high school is the child of parents who divorced when she was 2. She's been in a happy marriage with three kids for the last 15+ years. She has a GREAT relationship with her mom. She would have loved to have also had a great relationship with her dad, but he drifted away from her after the divorce and by the time she graduated from high school he didn't even come to the graduation. That upset her terribly. Her parents being apart, she was OK with.
Not to say I'm the model of mental health, but she had no more problems than me (and we were both goody-two-shoes). No more problems (and rather fewer) than our other best friend who lived with parents who were happily married.
It stinks to say it, but kids DO adjust. They may not like it, but if they are loved, valued, and nurtured, and they know it, the other stuff becomes the same kind of background noise as the other factors in their life. Just part of the status quo.
They also are sharp and have an interest in understanding their environment. It is not lost on my kids that their dad hardly ever calls them and that he's traveling for their birthdays. You worry about your D. Just be a great dad to her and she'll be OK. If you want some reassurance about that, get one of the many parenting books that addresses daughters or dads and daughters. She will be OK if you make that your goal.
You've come a long way in a short time. I hope you're proud of yourself. Enjoy the snowboarding (where is there snow??? I want to take my kids out) and stay away from the hamdogs.
Skiing is pretty slim in the Ohio Valley area. We have a tiny hill in Paoli, IN (Paoli "Peaks") and a slightly less tiny hill in Lawrenceburg, IN (near Cincinnat - Perfect North Slopes). Someone from out west or the northeast would be bored immediately, but for us, they are as good as we could hope for
And thanks for sharing about your friend. I have no doubt that both WAW and myself will love D2 like crazy for all of our lives. I do believe D2 will be okay.
Okay, so my latest stress-inducer is my credit score. WAW always handled our finances. It was just never my role. So I never really paid attention. Well, now that I'm on my own, I looked up my credit score...it is complete garbage. Like, I don't think I could get a loan of any kind at this point. It is mainly due to two things: we missed my student loan payments the month D2 was born. There are several independent loans (all very small monthly payments, $7-11/mo), but each one dinged my score. So $70 total late, in one month, contributed a half dozen "late payments" to my score. That was almost 3 years ago. And apparently, our Target credit card, which WAW has had the last 6 months, was not paid for almost 4 months this fall. And I didn't know this until now, but it's in my name. She had the card, she spent the money, she didn't pay the bill, and now my credit score is almost on the lowest rung of the credit ladder. this Target card late payment is going to kill me for the next 7 years, apparently.
So you have a 120 day late on your Target credit card?
It won't completely crush you for the next 7 years - but that's pretty bad. I don't know if there's anything you can do because you didn't realize it was in your name (not sure of the legalities of a wife opening up a credit line in the husband's name without his knowledge). It's worth approaching Target and explaining the situation.
Creditors are just supposed to report factual information but its not unheard of for them to extend a "courtesy" now and then to a customer. If they adjust it even to a 60 day late - it will haunt your score for far less of a time (will impact your score primarily for the next two years).
If you google "myfico" and investigate their boards you can find a trove of useful information. I recommend searching by "Target" becuase other people will have shared their stories of what they did under similar circumstances.
Thank you so much for sharing that. It's actually only listed as 90 days late on my credit report. During one of our R talks in December, WAW handed me the card and said, "This is in your name. I just paid it off." I'm having trouble even accessing the account at the moment, that's how little I knew about it. But I do think she actually paid it off in December. Last payment was in August. So late months were Sept, Oct & Nov.
Wow, at first glance, the forums on myfico.com look amazing. Maybe that will be my new DB home, too. Bon voyage, everyone!
It will definitely be worth your while to see if you can get the 90 day reduced. 60 days is bad but not nearly to the extent as a 90.
Also - continue to work on getting those student loan lates removed if you can. Part of your credit score (depending on the bureau- Equifax is particularly sensitive to this) - is the ratio accts that have ever had a late versus the others.
Good Luck!
I haven't asked this on myfico yet because I want to read a lot before posting (like reading DR before posting here). But I called the student loan people today and the said one of the three credits core agencies had to remove it (Equifax, Transunion, Expirian). That flies in the face of everything I've seen anywhere that talks about writing letters to the companies whom you have debt with.
Sometimes a lender wants you to follow the process of disputing with a credit bureau first. That will get you no where. There was a 60 minutes expose on how badly that process works. Try writing directly to the lender (and fax a letter if you can get a hold of fax number.
It helps if you can get executive names off of the company website and send copies of the letter directly to them.
I just finished a fantastic weekend visiting my young (17 yr old) cousin in VA. Went snowboarding with her. VA is so beautiful, maybe the most beautiful place I've ever been. I've been there before but it just really sank in this time, and that's without any leaves on the trees! It has big mountains, but they are kind of spaced out. So the roads are still kind of straight, and you always have panoramic views, not just mountains on all sides of you (although I like that, too). Anyway, it was an excellent weekend, perfect weather, etc. GAL: 100%. Detach: 100%.
WAW is now initiating almost all of our convos and texts. And it's not like it's my plan for that to happen, because I still don't know if I want to work on it with her (IF she did with me). Who knows if she's actually reconsidering, but it does show that pulling back does draw them in. Almost immediately after I did, if there has been any pursuit, it's from her to me. Of course, the timing of my detach happened simultaneously with her OM dumping her.
Friday night, she was supposed to pick up D2 from my mom's house (I was already on the road). Predictably, WAW called to cancel/delay until Saturday. I presumed it was so she could drink, take meds and sleep in. I was not happy about it, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't for a legit reason. Here was the brief convo:
Me: Why?
WAW: Why does it matter? That was the schedule. I'm not ditching her for a date, if that's what you're asking
Me: You agreed on a new schedule. I've already left town. Contact my mom
WAW: Fine
Maybe I shouldn't have asked "why" (no, I wasn't wondering if she had a date). But I was proud of the second response. Before I would have been MNG and caved immediately, even would have called my mom for her and maybe even made up an excuse. I just stated a couple of facts and let her deal with it. And I didn't respond to the "fine" when I would have chased after that in the past.
A little while later, she apologized and explained that she was having a "very emotional day" and she didn't want D2 to see her crying again. I validated then let it go. The rest of the weekend she texted me pics of D2 and I shared a really funny story from my trip
Sounds like you had a fantastic ski trip Card. How are you feeling these days?
I LOVE the Card29 v2015! Really, you're handling this like a vet. GALing like a terminal patient and dealing with the WAW like a remarried man. There's no more pursuing, no more Mr. Nice Guy. Really, it's just fantastic to see. Keep at it and keep posting because you're an inspiration.
Keep it up card! You're making us all look bad but in the best of ways!!
Sounds like you had a fantastic ski trip Card. How are you feeling these days?
Excellent! Honestly, I feel like myself for the first time in a long, long time. I forget if it was in DR or just vet advice here, but whenever I heard "become who you were when you met your spouse", I thought that didn't apply to me because I felt like I hadn't changed. I'm realizing now that I had sort of become a shell of myself. I was not always a MNG. WAW's aggressive personality made me shy away, and over time that really affected my personality. I'm not blaming her for that. It will take a lot of time and effort, but I feel like I'm going to get rid of the MNG crap but still be loving and kind.
Also, I sang for almost the entire 10 hr drive home today, and now my voice is hoarse. I don't know what came over me, but when I drove through, WV, I had to sing along to Country Roads. Not sure why, because I've never liked John Denver. At first I only knew the chorus. After I had sang it for the 15th time (probably not exaggerating), I knew the whole song lol!
I'm on cloud nine and that is WITH the speeding ticket I got at the WV/VA border lol
Thanks Mozza and Ss! You will be joining me soon, I'm sure. Maybe not singing John Denver songs, though. I know he's not for everybody. And I did find out that I really only like that one song of his. I tried to sing with Rocky Mountain High but I wasn't into it lol. So back to "almost heaven, West Virginia!" lol that is going to seem so silly tomorrow when I remember why I can't talk. I have meetings tomorrow too.
Card29: Boss, I can't give the presentation
Boss: are you sick?
Card29: nah, it was John Denver.
Card, you know what??.. I've only just realised that our sitch's have an almost identical timeline, we joined within a month or so of each other and the ages aren't far off either.. It's only taken this long haha!!..
Anyway, it seems like we are both getting to that same kind of a detached space and it feels good doesn't it??.. You said your move seemed to coincide with the end of OM R, and I have seen mine was when I found out about NBF.. It seems like OM's are a bit of a trigger haha!!..
Keep up the good work.. I look at people like yourself for my own inspiration!!..
Wow, you're right about our sitches being almost identical! So you're reach detachment, too? Heck yes, it feels great
As far as my WAW's OM and my detachment, it was just a coincidence, or possibly divine intervention as I don't know if I could have handled that knowledge while I was thoroughly attached. I had my "lightswitch" moment about a week before WAW admitted to her A that had ended 2 weeks prior.
Hey Freddy....well, alright, alright, alright...lookee at you.
I like....a lot. Good on you.
You got this, my friend.
Keep going.
I don't know what came over me, but when I drove through, WV, I had to sing along to Country Roads.
There is ONE road there, where one doesn't hear the "banjo" music playin...
: )
Stopping in to say hi, Freddy. Hope you are doing well.
I am! I was able to "mourn" my credit score, so that isn't weighing me down as heavily. Yesterday I turned down an invite from WAW to join her at a spinning class. Today she asked to come over and visit D2. We shared a couple of nice hugs. I do think she is feeling better, hopefully not as depressed. She's been up and down (bad day last Friday), but I'm happy for her that she is at least having some good days.
I kind of get the impression that she's interested in me (could be wrong, but I'm not obsessing about it). If those feelings do exist, I wonder if they are rebound emotions. Her OM dumped her about 6 weeks ago. She was "in love" for several months with that guy, so I'm expecting her to go through all of the normal processes of any other breakup
Something about me I've been thinking about: I've realized the highest hurdle in breaking free from my MNG tendencies is discerning my emotions, needs and desires, especially in the moment. One typical MNG tendancy is being a chameleon, being who you think those around expect you to be (good son, perfect husband, one of the guys, etc). I wasn't a clinical case of that, but I have exhibited some of it. Obviously my feelings for WAW are naturally complicated, so I'm just giving that time. But things like what I want to say to my mom regarding how D2 is disciplined, what I want to do with my dogs...I realize I have a hard time deciding what I want as opposed to going with what I think others expect/want from me. I feel like I'm starting to break from that cycle, but still a lot of work and time remaining.
Very nice introspection Card. And yes your XW could be interested. I think it's great she invites you to do things. Keep going and good luck.
Hi Card I just wanted to let you know I went through a divorce when my kids were
aged 3-9. Four kids! My eldest is 32 today and all turned out fine. My daughter who was 3 doesn't even remember her Dad and I together. We have always stood united at our children's milestones. It can be done
I have come to a much more comfortable place regarding how D2 may turn out if we go through with D. We are definitely cordial. I think we could even be friends in the future, something I never would have believed before, pre or post-BD. A divorce less, lifelong M with kids was a dream of mine since I was a kid. I'm pretty happy it only took me 7 months to be comfortable accepting that that dream might not be reality for me.
Aside from some really fun sledding with D2 yesterday, kind of a bummer of a weekend. Just boring and the bad kind of lazy. I had a really good workout yesterday, but it sapped all of my energy today. Other possible developments:
- I kind of have feelings for WAW again. Not surprising, still not sure if I want to work on the M. But I do want to kiss her. We kind of snuggled at her apt for a few minutes tonight
- She ate a pot brownie at a party last night...?? Neither of us have ever done drugs.
- She also again threatened to tell the whole world about my porn problem if I tell people about her A. That makes me definitely lean away from her. That kind of attitude is totally uncalled for. I told her that neither of us want it to get nasty, so lets not even joke about that stuff again
Hmm...
I personally don't think the pot brownie is that big a deal, but what do I know? I've never done drugs but I did live 16 of my 42 years in California.
The threatening, though, I don't care for. On either side. How did that come up?
Pot brownie is just another sign that both of you are in a transition period where much experiment happens. I also don't mind it much, especially as it's getting legal in more places.
I'm also curious about how the threatening came about. I'll say though that an A is a much bigger issue than a "porn problem". As I've stated here before, it's a problem because she makes it one, in all legitimacy. Not sure I'd think less of the person. Anyway, we'll see how it was brought up, but the first one who did is likely the more insecure one about their faults.
I'm interested to see where these feelings will take you, especially if they will affect your detachment, PMA, etc. Following you closely.
Hmm...
I personally don't think the pot brownie is that big a deal, but what do I know? I've never done drugs but I did live 16 of my 42 years in California.
The threatening, though, I don't care for. On either side. How did that come up?
I'm not that concerns about a pot brownie, either. It actually didn't surprise me. I already wondered if she had tried drugs the last 8 months. She is definitely going through even more chaos than I am. She's already drinking way more than she ever has, and she's on all kinds of mental health meds. I think she's looking for any kind of escape.
As far as the threats, we were just hanging out for a bit last night when I dropped off D2. One of my cousins came up, who doesn't like WAW (it's no secret). I mentioned that she already thinks you had an A, that we got into an argument about it in Oct, and I defended WAW saying she wasn't. WAW said, "Well now you can go back and tell her. And if you do I'll tell the whole world you chose porn over me for 10 years." It was purely defensive, trying to deflect some of the guilt. I wasn't trying to make her feel guilty, but obviously I did. So I will avoid the subject altogether unles we try to reconcile.
Having my first bumpy few days since my light switch moment about a month ago. I realize I do ideally want our M to work, but that brings on two sources of pain: She is nowhere close to ready to rebuilding our M even if she wants to (and I have no clue if she does), and the pain of her A is returning. The fact that she is nastily trying to deflect her role in it (even without me being hostile or telling anyone about it) speaks volumes, too.
Also, D2 is starting to get upset that I don't come to mommy's house with her.
Ugh
Small positive: This has been my most productive day in months at work. I've just been really, really focused. I think that's a good sign. I need to quit wasting time at night. Once D2 goes to bed, I just veg out for hours, until 1-2 am. Watching citcoms, playing video games...for a while I was staying up late, but I was playing piano/guitar, reading books, going running in the middle of the night, drawing. At least something that fed my soul a little. Watching Sportscenter for two straight hours is not doing me any good.
Bat signal for uR! Stop by Ss06's thread
Card, I have had to come to grips that there may be no regret or sorrow for the actions of my W regarding the A. Maybe it will come, maybe after years from a rebuilt marriage. I'm not counting on it, nor can I let that expectation of an apology or regret divert me away from DB.
All I know is that trying to invoke guilt from her only brings about anger for both of us.
Having my first bumpy few days since my light switch moment about a month ago. I realize I do ideally want our M to work, but that brings on two sources of pain: She is nowhere close to ready to rebuilding our M even if she wants to (and I have no clue if she does), and the pain of her A is returning. The fact that she is nastily trying to deflect her role in it (even without me being hostile or telling anyone about it) speaks volumes, too.
Also, D2 is starting to get upset that I don't come to mommy's house with her.
Ugh
Those late nights self medicating with Internet or games are brutal.
I drew a line for myself, 11pm, no excuses. Doesn't always work.
Was it in DR that I read that WAS rarely if ever regret the affair itself? All they may regret is the pain they caused the LBS. The reason, as painful as it is to hear, is that they enjoyed the A too much to regret it. It's not a thought I'm comfortable with, but im working with it while aiming at the proper kind of forgiveness for my WAW's A.
Give it some time, Card. Your sitch is interesting I think - as the cat is out of the bag and rather than proving immediately catastrophic you've both gone on to acknowledge that you both are hurting and maintained some contact through that. Keep working on you and get yourself back to PMA so you can keep riding the wave.
Had a bit of an R talk tonight. Earlier I texted her asking if she wanted to watch the final season of a show with me. She had previously asked me to watch football, go to the gym, etc, so I didn't think it was out of bounds. She responded "um maybe". So I asked her in person tonight what she meant, if she maybe didn't want to watch the show or maybe didn't want to watch it with me. She said neither, just that she didn't want to send mixed signals. I said that's fine, I was just asking on the grounds of watching TV and wasn't interpreting anything. I told her that if she wanted to reconcile, I would expect a much more definite signal than accepting a TV invite (I said that light-heartedly). I also conveyed that I was still deciding what I want, anyway.
How do YOU feel spending time with her, Card? Too much time together always confused me but you seem to do ok with it. Are you really ok with it?
Hey Freddy...you know, you are confusing me. I think you need to kind of decide what you want, ya know?
Oh and her saying she didnt want to give you mixed signals...script.
Here is what I want (or at least how I feel):
- ideally I want to reconcile our M, but I am not living and dying with that anymore. I realize I will be happy either way, and we will be really good coparents for D2. Obviously the best thing for D2 is for her parents to be happily married, but I'm not in total control of that.
- If we're not going to reconcile, I would kind of like to take advantage of our current sitches (both single) to enjoy some time together. I love WAW, but I also like her as a friend. If either of us are dating/married in the future, I don't think we should hang out and watch TV shows, football games alone together. I'm not telling her any of that. But life is short, and it's a collection of moments. I enjoy those moments with her, whether it's leading somewhere or not. I also like being together with her and D2.
- Being around her does confuse me a little sometimes. I won't initiate any snuggling again, and I'll hope she doesn't walk around in a towel again lol. But we aren't hanging out all of the time. I think I just report each occurance here
- Definitely not pursuing any other women at the moment, nor thinking about it. Skiing with sis's friend hasn't happened yet and she doesn't sound that interested in it, anyway, so it looks like that probably won't even happen. My sister still really wants that to happen, though.
I was wondering if it was part of the script, uR. I almost brought up the WAW script to her, but then I mentally slapped myself
Fair enough, Freddy. I hope the slap didnt hurt too much....but good call.
So, here's what I'm thinking..since you are open to the possibility of maybe reconciling one day, try not to shoot yourself in the foot right now, ya know?
By that I mean, no on the cuddling and telling her you havent decided what you want. Just because...
The dancing into confusing territory can end up causing more pain than you realize. My ex was sending me all kinds of confusing signals. We even kissed one night. He thought it was all ok as long as he didn't sleep with me. Ya all ok until you start dating someone else after leading me on.
Very good point, Karma. Right now I feel independent and strong, but I'm sure it would hurt if I found out she was seeing someone again right now. You and uR make a great case for ceasing the cuddling and minor physical contact. I'll go back to her being a friendly neighbor, with whom I definitely would not cuddle.
This is an amazing 1.5 minute video. I thought of everyone here (including myself) with every word he says. It is part Headspace, part everything the vets say here when it comes to stress:
How to Get Rid of Stress in 60 Seconds
Small update:
Went to church with WAW yesterday for the first time in months. Then we went clothes shopping for D2 for a bit afterwards. We were going to go to the gym together, but WAW has been feeling sick (allergies, etc.) for a few days, so I convinced her to rest instead.
Today we set the D2 calendar through the end of March. I had a NMMNG success, followed by a communication failure. We seemingly always have D2 Thursday-Saturday or Sunday. Normally it's great, because I have a little extra time with D2 those days. But sometimes I want to go do something on one of those nights, and I basically have to sacrifice one of my nights with D2 to do so. So it was a NMMNG win to understand how I felt and attempt to convey that need to WAW as we are planning the schedule. What I should have done was suggest an alternative to our scheduling pattern, and keep the reason focused on myself. Instead, I said something along the lines of "I always have her on Friday and Saturday nights so you can go out and party". I cringed after I sent that message (we were chatting). Soon after, I apologized.
Instead, I said something along the lines of "I always have her on Friday and Saturday nights so you can go out and party". I cringed after I sent that message (we were chatting). Soon after, I apologized.
I often catch myself (including yesterday) before I send those type of messages. It's just 'too easy' sometimes, isn't it?
It sure is, especially since she delays at least half of our handoffs due to the fact that she's hung over.
Oh Freddy, Freddy, Freddy..what am I going to do with you? LOL!
I know you know that isnt who you want to be.
Gotta get a stradegy together to avoid doing that again. Count to 20..think of UR on your shoulder...something, right?
Yes. I thought of the 10 minute Headspace app, but that was afterwards. When I apologized to her, I said that it even surprised me, because I'm normally not worked up about things like that anymore. I just wasn't prepared for it. I came here to admit my failure, though, because hearing everyone's comments seems to help me remember next time.
Other than that I've been doing well the last few days. GALing, detached, motivated, happy.
Had to laugh at your previous post, Card.
Earlier today I talked back to a policeman for having a go at me for J walking (he was doing it in a very passive aggressive way, saying "Just over here, waiting for the light to change, just waiting" over and over). I walked on and ignored it but then felt the need to tell him I was ignoring him.... What the?! My head eventually caught up and I scolded myself for not being very mindful. Then I laughed at the whole thing!
Glad to hear you are doing well (aside from those lapses in mindfulness).
One of the biggest things I've learned through this ordeal is that recognizing your emotions in a timely fashion is a skill in itself, and it's probably at the top of my 180 list, now.
Oh I totally agree!!! I've just started on the Anxiety pack in Headspace and there's a technique for doing just that. When we are distracted we simply note whether it is a feeling or thought then return calmly to the breath. I've found it a good technique to apply at work or wherever. Really helps with recognising distractions for what they are.
Had the best sushi of my life tonight. Ate way too much of it, too.
Been a few days. Went on a great guys-only ski trip to Snowshoe, WV. Beautiful, decent weather and conditions. Missed D2 late in the trip, though. Zero cell phone coverage or wifi, which was a relief. It allowed me to dodge a work disaster that probably would have required me to work for a couple of hours Saturday if I'd been aware. I'm not sad that I missed it.
I am sad today, though, because we found someone to take one of our dogs. Two was just too much, especially the little rascal we're letting go of. We both love her but she has too much energy and we don't have enough time for her, especially when one of us has both of the dogs and D2. It wasn't fair to her, really, to stay with us. She will be much happier with her new home. It is her original foster mom, who fell in love with her just before we adopted her a year and 1/2 ago. She was thrilled to have the pup offered back to her. She is retired and basically has a family of dogs (4-5 of them). Our dog will get all of the attention she can handle now. So we're really happy about that, but it's still hard to let go. WAW has been texting me pictures of our 2 dogs curled up on their bed, basically spooning each other. Not helping!
Thanks a lot for the update, Card29. I'm always happy to see your name pop up in the updated threads. Anything going on, even in your head, on the dating front?
In my head, yes, but not making any advances. I stopped trying to meet up with sis's friend for now. When I started thinking about her and her previous R from a DB perspective, I figured she was already dating someone, that she basically left her ex for another guy. I confirmed with my sister today that she has been dating a guy for a "few weeks". It's a load off my mind, really. Now I know she's not even available at the moment, so no more wondering or trying to fight off temptations to ask her out per the advice of uR and others. Also, if I really want to find a long term relationship someday, dating someone a couple weeks after a long-term R break-up is not the way to start it. So if it's going to happen someday with her, maybe she needs this R. Whatever it leads to, I know that if it was me dating her right now, odds are it wouldn't have lasted. My sister still wants us to be together someday, so I'm sure she'll let me know if she's available down the road. I'm moving on now, though.
Other than that, nothing. My FB profile still says "Married" and we haven't even filed for D yet. No D talks since December. I'm not asking anyone out until we are at least officially going down that route. If I get to the point where I really want to start going on dates, maybe that's the point where I move things forward with WAW? But I'm not there yet. Here is my plate for the next 1-2 months, no room on it for a girl:
- Continue to train and learn in my new job
- About to mourn the loss (to another loving home, at least) of one of my pups
- Find an apartment and move into it
- Continue rehabing a wrist injury as well as a heel injury
- Make several repairs at my mom's house before I move out
- Get back to my 180 list, truly for my benefit. I thought I was over porn completely but had a backslide after I stopped with my anti-porn program a few weeks ago. I don't want that to become a habit again so it's time to recommit with the realization that I am probably at least a year if not 2 years away from not needing a constant commitment.
180 success report: My NMMNG campaign has been progressing. I'm starting to decipher my feelings and desires more timely, allowing me to react the way I want to react. I'm no longer obsessed about what women think about it, a common MNG characteristic . As an example, I used to visit D2 (at the time, D1) at daycare and I'd want to play with her in front of women working at the daycare so they would think I was a good dad. Pathetic, right? I still love visiting her, but now I don't care who knows I'm there. I'm not really doing anything differently with her, I still play with her wherever her and I feel like, I just don't care who is looking. Just a change within myself.
Aouch, in my (our?) position, it's hard to have sympathy knowing that sis' friend left her ex for another man. I see patterns everywhere now... Are you engaging other women, if only chatting them up in random places? It was interesting the impact this woman had on you, so I'm wondering if just flirting and getting a response elsewhere could help your thinking about your sitch. My IC thinks that intensity of my reaction to the S is linked to my lack of confidence that I can find someone else as good, so he's pleased that I'm at least trying to get a response from girls I find interesting. It worked once and it did have an impact.
I had forgotten that you were not D'ed. It's interesting that there are no more talks about this, though it's good to avoid reading into it. My WAW brought up the D paperwork then easily accepted when I asked her to delay. I try not to read into it...
Thanks for reporting openly about porn. I wanted to tell you that it made me look at my own habits and what impact it had on my M and my life. I don't think it was a cause of the S, but it probably had a more negative impact than I had realized. It's something that I'm improving already and that I would like to improve in a future R. So you're helping others with your openness.
I'm also reading NMMNG so your progress is also interesting. It's good to see that so many of us are becoming better through this awful experience. Keep at it.
Thanks for updating me on you, Moz. I've been a bad friend! Haha
I don't know if sis's friend actually left her ex for another guy, it's just my hunch given what I've learned and observed over the last 8 months. The only way her story veers from the normal WAW script is that she wasn't married, and she had been pressing the issue with her ex for 2 years that she wanted to get married, that she would eventually leave if he didn't propose. At least that's the story I heard from my sis, who is rooting for "us". I'm sure there are two sides to the tale. And I'm sure her friend will have some doubt, withdrawals, and miss her ex at some point. I guess I'm thankful I'm not with her when that happens. I don't think she's a bad person just as I don't think my WAW is a bad person. My mild EA 2 years ago taught me that anyone is capable of an A. If things went differently with that woman (she moved out of state), who knows, it could have progressed to a fullblown PA, with me as a WAH. Maybe Mrs. Card29 would have been on DB.com instead!
Other girls? Not really. On the guy's ski trip, we talked a big game about flirting with girls and ended up getting drunk in our condo most nights. It was fun, anyway! Besides, if you were serious about trying to meet a girl (I wasn't) it was slim pickings up on the mountain at night. Every bar was 95/5 ratio of guys to girls, and the girls were typically with a guy.
I have agreed to flirt with a local "rockstar", a woman in an up-and-coming band from our town. My ex-boss kind of knows her and has been encouraging me to go to her favorite hangout and flirt with her before they go on tour this spring. I am actually planning on doing it, but without any intention or expectation of anything happening, just to give my friend the satisfaction. He's married and this girl is openly his "celebrity crush". She is way out of my league (fame more than looks). I figure if I can attempt to flirt with her, why would I be nervous about anyone else??
Like I said, I don't plan on actually pursuing a real date until things are officially moving forward with WAW. Right now my feelings about WAW are still ILYBNILWY, but I'm more open to the idea of working on it with her IF she expressed genuine interest. I'm not going to pursue her anymore. And if the limbo continues for a while, at some point in going to kick the ball downhill myself.
Regarding porn, I'm studying now more from an addiction standpoint than I had before. I never thought it was an actual addiction as I thought hardcore drugs and excessive alcohol deserved that title. But it is really an addiction in everyway. Recovery styles and paths are similar, and the threat of a relapse lasts just as long as a drug relapse. Maybe it's not as damaging to my life as heroin would be, but it is still damaging and deserves no place in my life. One encouraging thing I've read from a porn recovery expert is that a short relapse doesn't erase progress you've made. Of course that's not meant to give you a license to sample it now and again.
Well, Freddy...look at you.
. I like the way you sound, my friend. Some big, big things there. Good on you.
Feels good, right? To be in control of your life.
I'm thinking you dont have to worry much about finding someone else one day if that is your choice.
For now, just keep working on you.
It feels great uR! It's a shame I won't get to meet you and others in person someday, just to say thanks for being there in what was by far the hardest part of my life to this point, 100x's harder than when my dad died. Of course I had people IRL that were critical for me, but most of the best advice and the support in my darkest moments came from people here.
So today was a little interesting. I was at WAW's apt for a while during a D2 pickup. Found out she went on a couple of dates with a different OM in January but she says she called them off. We talked about me getting off of her insurance, and she said she has talked to a lawyer. She gave me the impression that she wants to go the D route because she doesn't know what else to do. I found out she's smoking weed in addition to her new pot brownie interest. She said, "I guess I'm trying to get used to life being like this now." I asked her what "this" meant. She was unclear, but I understood it to mean her being an adulterer and having to live like that for the rest of her life. I did or said nothing to bring that on or aggravate it.
Also, we kissed. Actually, I kissed her, and she was receptive. I just didn't want my last kiss with her to be when she was dating the guy that helped rip apart my family. (we kissed in July before she moved out). At least right now we're both single, although there's no way for me to know that 100%. I told her why I kissed her and she said, "That's a good reason." No expectations from that, and not planning on making any more moves like that.
I have an apartment lined up. Moving in the week of March 9.
A kiss?! Again, your sitch never fails to deliver. Still, we miss your wise words around these boards. As a detached LBH that's still in the game, you have something to contribute.
Hey Freddy. You never know what will happen. There are a lot of us who have met up to hang out.
So, you kissed her? You crack me up the way you just go for stuff sometimes.
Hey, as long as you are good with it, its all good. No expectations, right?
Congrats on the apartment.
Yea, it sounds like she feels like she has to go through with the divorce. Many of them are like that. Its because they leave and they still arent happy, so, now they have to try the next thing and
then they'll be happy...NOT!
I kind of got the feeling she meant that she has to get used to living her life single and not as a family. I could be wrong, though.
And you do have a lot to contribute here, Fred.
You crack me up the way you just go for stuff sometimes.
So true. I wish I had half the balls you do, Card!
I promise I'm not deserting DB. I've just been a little preoccupied lately.
Definitely no expectations from the kiss! It actually went just as I hoped. A delightful 10 seconds, and now, if that's really it, at least our physical relationship ended on my terms.
I found out she smoked a cigarette, too. I was pretty pissed to hear that. Weed, okay, whatever. But why in the hell would a 30 year old, a vegetarian who only buys organic produce, just decide to pick up smoking? Yes, it was only one cigarette, and she was really drunk. But given the rest of her trends, I suspect it won't be the last time she tries it. Try it a few times and you start to like it, then who knows. Best case she becomes a "I only smoke when I drink" person. I'm sure I'm overreacting, but I don't want that for her, and I definitely don't want D2 to have a smoking mom. I've thoroughly voiced my concern on that.
She definitely seems lost. I think a part of her doesn't want to get a divorce but she just doesn't have any faith that things could be different. Maybe she will give herself a chance to try to be happy on her own. I told her I'm not filing or paying any of the fees associated with it. She accepted that. I told her that I'm still willing to try, but that I wasn't going to stand in her way. I told that I might still be willing to down the line, if I'm not seeing anyone (DB mistake?).
Holy goodness, Card! A kiss? Whoa!
The cigarette thing might be part of the script... not to belittle it at all though.
I discovered that my stbx bought a PIPE. Yep. A PIPE. He's 36 and asthmatic but whatev.
Anyway, you sound strong and solid. Don't look now but you're doing it!
I would have stopped after the you're not filing or paying. The rest, kind of invalidates her feelings, ya know?
I would have stopped after the you're not filing or paying. The rest, kind of invalidates her feelings, ya know?
And this ^^^^ my friend, Card, is why uR is such a good vet to have in your corner.
I totally agree, Ss. uR is on the money every time. The good news is that I at least had a feeling I'd crossed the line, and I don't think I crossed it too drastically. I didn't beg or plead like I would have before.
Thanks guys. So, Freddy...you said the words, she heard them. No need to say them again, right?
Yea, you have come a long way, sweetie.
Keep going.
I have come a long way, you're right, especially from a detachment, DB and NMMNG standpoint.
Struggling with some self-confidence issues lately, though. In my mind, I know I had/have things to work on, but the primary reason she left is within herself. Still, I'm going back through a phase of dealing with the fact that she found me unworthy. But yes, I know, "uR" worthy, or "iMworthy"!. I know that. But I don't feel that at the moment. I also believe that this feeling will pass. In the meantime, what should my focus be? What can I do to break this cycle? I've kind of felt like this for 2-3 weeks, off and on. Is this just the high of sis's friend wearing off?
The rest of this I'm just getting off of my chest. I know it's because she's lost, for the same reason she's doing drugs now:
Lately it has stung that she casually started dating some OM2 for 2-3 weeks AFTER her tearful, remorseful phone call to me. "I'm an adulterer" "I'm so sorry I did this" "I hate myself and my life" ... fast forward 1 week.... "OM2 sounds like a good plan". wth, you know?
Also, she gave me a conflicting timeline. On the phone call in December, she said OM2 broke up with her 2 weeks prior, which would have put their breakup right on or before the day of our house closing. If you go back and read my threads, she was so unbelievably horrible that day. She treated me and our realtor like crap, she was hollow and cold at the closing. It was maybe the worst mood I've ever seen her in, and I've seen her in some really bad moods. It made sense. But the other day at her apt, she said he broke up with her in November....? I'm assuming she's lying about it being in Nov. She probably has the break-up date burned into her memory just like my BD date, so there's no way she accidentally got the dates mixed up. But why lie about it?
Okay, it's off my chest now, I guess. I've wrote these questions out in texts to her and then deleted them, as they obviously weren't going to lead anywhere good.
Hey Freddy. Your feelings are normal. I mean, who wouldnt feel badly that their spouse had an affair? Its a succky thing, right?
When all of this went down for me, man, did I feel unworthy. I felt small and insignificant. I felt a lot of other bad stuff, too.
So, I had to look within. I had to take the rose colored glasses off and roll up my sleeves.
I realized a few things that helped me grow back. There was nothing that I did or didnt do in my marriage that warrented what he did. Whatever I did or didnt do was not with the intent to cause harm to him or the relationship. That mattered to me.
You dont go from a loving marriage, albeit with issues as all of them have, to cheating on your spouse.The issues werent insurmountable. Not at all. So, if I put all of that together, I understood that it wasnt really about me.
It was about him. His unresolved stuff. His feelings of being less than.
Because the truth of it was that I was a good wife. I loved him. I had his back. I was honest and loyal and caring.
It wasnt a lacking in my that this happened, but, a lacking in him.
Your wife is broken, Freddy. You can see that, I know. You dont act as she did and as she if you arent.
But this journey we take isnt linear. It ebbs and flows. It goes up and down and around and back again.
The goal is to find your worth. That doesnt come from her. It comes from inside of you.
My mother and my xh told me and showed me that they thought I wasnt good enough. I found out they were wrong.
I did that by getting different mirrors. I watched how people reacted to me. How they were around me.
I became the person I was supposed to be. So that I knew I was worthy because of that.
That was the goal each day. Some days I made it. Some I didnt. But I strived to be that person until I was.
She doesnt get to determine your worth. She just doesnt.
She is a mess and is trying to figure out how to feel better. She is making poor choices in doing that.
Even though her actions are very hurtful, they arent reflective of who you are. They are reflective of who she is right now.
So, feel what you do and then find a way to let it go. Otherwise it weighs you down.
I know its hard to think about it all. Im sorry it is.
I also know that you will get back on your path.
This is a journey you were meant to go on.
I'm going to let those words sink in as I got to bed tonight and respond tomorrow. Thank you, uR
Well I didn't respond yesterday, but ive been thinking about it since Friday. I don't have a profound response. I just want to say that I appreciate the words and advice. WAW really hasn't had a lot of bad things to say about me, but to me, actions speak louder than words, so her behavior has resonated, even with these late reverberations. I'll be okay, though. I'm starting to make some really good friends at work. Not sure I really, really fit with some of them, but for now it's great.
I just had a weird conversation with my mom. She's basically trying to convince me not to move out. She says she's questioning the move for the interests of me and D2 (money, stability), but I think it's really because she loves D2 being here so much. I don't blame her. But I'm moving. I'm not going far, and I'll still come by here. Yeah, of course money is always better when you're living in your parent's basement, but there's a reason (or many of them) most adults don't do that. And financially, this is the best deal I could hope for...great apartment, great location, 1/2 the cost because my friends who live there are out of the country for the year. And as far as stability for D2, a move is inevitable. I'm not living here forever. Yes, I'll need to move again in the fall when my friends return. But an extra apartment move is not going to really hurt D2.
I validated her concerns, and I told her that I know she's going to miss seeing D2 so much. But I told her that I'm going forward with it.
Card, I'm no expert at the behaviors of WAW, but either you accept a very long view (years...) that she may change while putting you through a roller coaster, or you leave.
I could not imagine in my own sitch waiting 2 years for my wife to come back to me. Yes, I'm that selfish.
I'm not waiting any longer. She says she's going to file and I'm okay with that. I'm okay giving her a little bit more time to do it before I start asking her when she's going to do it. I'm thinking if she hasn't filed by April, I will ask her what she's doing.
Okay so WAW just texted me trying to tell me a funny story about her new dating life. I told her I was not interested in hearing her dating stories. She seemed put off by that. She told me the story anyway (some guy from her work stood her up). She said, "That's interesting, right?" and I said, "It is but I'm not interested in hearing your dating stories" (the 2nd time I'd said that). We ended the convo soon after.
Obviously she thought I was cool hearing about that stuff now. At least we cleared that up.
I kept uR in my ear, though...not one mention of "I'm still willing to work on it someday" even though I felt a tendency to do so.
She's telling you that dating story to get a reaction.
Don't even bother acknowledging.
Dating stories?! That's messed up. What is she thinking? For sure, she wants a reaction. Really, I can't think of why she'd do that. Like it's a bonding story for the two of you? Or perhaps she wants you to know that her dating is not going all that well? You did well to cut it off.
Children do the same thing. Negative attention is better vs no attention.
Uh oh...I'm in your ear? Now you're in trouble. LOL!
Yea, Im thinking that she is telling you about the dating stories because you told her you would be willing to work on things.
They want to be heard. When you tell her those things, she feels she isnt being heard.
Even though you dont agree with her, and even though she may not be sure what she wants, the thing is that she is saying she doesnt want the marriage right now.
When you make changes and move forward and let go, it means you've heard her. When you dont bring up working on it, it means you've heard her.
Trust me when I tell you she knows how you feel. But when they feel you hanging on, they try to shake you off. The more you hang on, the harder they shake.
I agree with your boundary about not hearing those stories. Dont keep saying it. Just dont respond. She will get the message. As long as you respond, she has your attention, which she feeds off of. Leave her to her ridiculousness.
Good point, everyone, about simply not responding. In this case she directly asked me if I wanted to hear it. But I guess I only needed to say it once.
I have noticed a trend. She's told me about 3 guys now, all of them after the "relationship" ended. She's also somehow implied before and during them that she was not pursuing them. Of course she lied about the A for 6 months. But after the A was over, she calls me crying, telling me about it. During that call she said, "he broke up with me, be happy", implying that I should be happy that she is now single, or something. 2 weeks later she's dating someone new. Told me about him after that was over. Then tells me about this guy after it is over, or whatever it is.
It doesn't even really sting anymore to hear about new guys. If there was one, what's the difference with 2? 3? 50? She's not my W anymore.
Don't you just want to punch in the kisser, look her straight in the eyes and say STFU?
Good answer, I am not really sure that was a serious question but good for you for not even playing along.
Anyways, your situation is heart breaking to me because it is very similar to my own in terms of your D. I just hate seeing these situations with such young kids. And seeing how you have tried to do everything you can...and your wife is acting out the way she is. It is just sad. I am sorry but it seems like you are doing the right things. I hope your W realizes what she is doing before it is too late.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Mary. I absolutely hated hearing this early on, but it really is a good thing that this is happening now rather than 5-10 years from now, for D2's sake. She adjusted to the S almost immediately. Sometimes she misses the missing parent, but never too badly. Of course, it's only been 8 months. But one of the many benefits of DBing is that it puts your coparenting relationship in the best possible position, at least from what the LBS can control. It helps give our young children the best child rearing atmosphere possible for them.
But if you're like me, you really don't have the stomach to think about that kind of stuff. This is the first time I've seen your username (I've been lighter on DB.com lately). Reading through a bit of your story, I'm assuming you meant to type 2/2015 for your S date. I'm really sorry for the pain you must be going through, even this very second. When my S was that fresh, my waves of pain came hour by hour, if not minute by minute. Keep following the voices on this board, Mary. I PROMISE you that you will get better and better. It will be 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Sometimes it will be 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. But you will get better even when you know you're not. You'll go from having good hours to having good days, then several good days, then your first good week, etc. I promise this will happen! You don't have to believe me right now, either.
Also, when I was looking through your profile to find the threads you've created, I noticed that you registered here early the morning after Christmas. I'm so sorry your BD was right in the midst of the holidays. My holidays were not that great and that was 6+ months after my BD! Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way right now, Marylov
Thanks Card. You are right, I really don't have the stomach to think that far in advance right now. My H just moved out and you are right, the pain comes sometimes so suddenly that I feel I can't breathe. But then I have moments where I feel almost positive, sure that everything will still somehow work out between us. I just can't give up hope, even though I know it may seem foolish. But even if I have hope, I still have to learn to detach. Even right now, I am so tempted to send him a text, telling him I love him and miss him. Because I do. I miss him so much. But as I've read others say, he knows that. Me reminding him of that won't do anything but give him a chance to ignore me. And yes, this holiday season was just...terrible. And since it was my D's first Xmas...it just made it seem that much worse bc it was supposed to be lovely. Sorry for this sad rant, but I am having a low moment
No apologies necessary. Everyone walks their own path, but so many paths here are amazingly similar.
Do not give up hope if that's what your heart desires! That is not foolish. But follow the advice uRworthy once gave me:
You can have hope. Nothing wrong with that. You can have it. You just dont want to live in it, ya know?
That phrase really resonated with me. I hope it helps you.
Also, don't follow my lead with the chasing, begging and pleading...I was a habitual pursuer! I don't know how many it helped or hurt my sitch, but it definitely harmed me. It just held me back somewhat. Of course, I would have needed several months to process this loss even if I had followed the DB script to a t. But that didn't help. Don't be discouraged by failures, though. You're not going to blow your chances for reconciliation with a few DB slip-ups
I'm so sorry that our first holiday season as a mother was like that. There is not much I can promise you with your sitch. But here is one thing I feel confident saying, if you can stick with the ideas here: Your 2015 holiday season will be much better, as far as your sitch and your emotions regarding it.
WAW is meeting with a L to start the D process tomorrow. We are still amicable. Unless she throws a curveball, there will be no arguing over assets or D2. We've already split what little assets we had, and we both agree to 50/50 custody with a flexible schedule on which we plan and agree ourselves. Hopefully there are no surprises. I'm woefully uninformed about this process, so I'm going to do some reading. I'm in KY, in case anyone has some specific helpful info.
Card it sounds like you are doing the best you can for yourself and your D. Nobody gains when Xs continue to fight. I've seen that first hand through a couple of friends. They are financially ruined and their kids are really messed up. No one needs that. So kudos to you.
I've seen a lot of that, too. People bitter and miserable 10-20 years later. I've known from the beginning that I didn't want that, no matter what.
I'm supposed to get something in the mail from the L soon.
Some updates:
- I feel great, have for the last week+, since the pick-me-up from uR and others
- I haven't seen or heard from the L yet although I know she met with her
- I'm switched over to insurance through my company. D2 remains on WAW's
- I don't have D2 for the rest of the week, so I'm taking a couple days off work and driving to the Keys. Escaping the bad weather that's coming! Going by myself - solitude. My phone will mostly be off.
- I have a tentative date next week with my salsa instructor from the fall, and I had a 5 hour conversation with another girl last night. Neither are sis' BFF. For now this is just for fun.
- Sis told me that her BFF broke up with her BF/fling and encouraged me to ask her out again. I told her that I'm still really interested in her but I don't think now is the best time for either of us, and especially her. I've had such a change of heart from the fall/summer when thinking of a potential new girl. I thought I was ready to immediately start a new, life-long R, and that all I needed to do was find her. Now I realize that I need some single time and even a few dates.
- I booked some flights for our California trip in May/June. WAW was not thrilled with the fact that we'll be in Cali on D2's 3rd birthday, and also the weekends before and after. I validated her feelings and told her that I did not intend to block out her birthday. I didn't even think about it. But if we were going to go on this trip (which WAW was generally okay with), this was the only week which worked for all parties that are traveling or hosting.
- We set the D2 calendar out through June. We've went from 3-day rotations to 4-day rotations, now we're up to 5-days. I know we will eventually get to 1-week rotations, which WAW still says "no" to. But long term, it will be so much easier to plan and execute, especially when she's in school.
Hey Freddy..you sound great. So happy for you.
I know you know that there will be some feelings to process when the divorce gets rolling.
But I think you are in a great place to be able to handle them. All part of this journey.
You are doing wonderfully, my friend.
Card
I will read your thread so I can post to you as I really am unhappy posting without knowing a sitch.
It was your observations on Mza thread about the man cave thread that worried me a little, I can understand the earlier postings on that thread had some merit but the nature of some of the later postings was concerning to me. Frankly much of the content appeared unbalanced and I for one reported a couple of postings for unpleasantness. I have read No More Mr Nice Guy. Have you read it? It is sound too.
I am not a member of the male sex but am a member of the human race and I felt some of the observations made were boundary infringements to my humanity. We all have the masculine and feminine traits within us and are allowed to express and hold our beliefs without being demeaned. We communicate as spirit to spirit and such communication is intimate and without bias. In many cases card the difference between the sexes are not even significantly significant.
For that reason I welcome to my threads those who are kind enough to post or enjoy my company. In others I choose to limit my posting to those who are hospitable on their threads and open to discuss issues with a variety of DBers both male female and in same sex relationships, those of different races ages and backgrounds. Same as in life if we only mix with those like ourselves, then our views are reinforced by similarity whether correct or not.
You mentioned that certain aspects of the man cave were enlightening to you, perhaps we can open that out on your thread. what exactly was it that opened your eyes or gave you new insight?
V
uR, I really am doing well. Just finished a solo, 5 day, 2,500 mile, open-ended road trip. I was worried I would be lonely or bored, but I noticed that I was really starting to unwind and find perspective towards the end of it. I think I really could have used 2 weeks and 6,000 miles! But I was glad to get back to D2, plus I'm out of vacation days haha
Vanilla, thanks for responding. Sorry that the man cave, or some ideas on it, got out of hand. As far as what was enlightening to me, it was some specific advice from jcred regarding what he has found attractive and unattractive for women. I don't intend to be a pick-up artist, so I'm not looking for ways to score on a Friday night. And I no longer believe WAW left me simply because she found me "unattractive" -- there were many issues, some out of my control. With that said, I obviously was misdirected as I was growing into an adult for what many women want.
I didn't lack confidence when I met and started dating WAW. But she was very strong-willed and also very easily upset. Some of the smallest purterbations would cause a day or a trip to be ruined. On the other hand, I am extremely easy-going and began defaulting to her opinion or decision more and more frequently. Eventually, she simply "wore the pants". I thought I was being the perfect little H, but now I know that most women don't want their man to be like that. I'm not saying I need to dominate whoever I'm with next, but I don't want to go back to being that guy. The man cave didn't really enlighten all of that by itself -- I'd read it and seen it in many places since June. But some of the things he said, since they were coming from such a personal level, stuck with me.
Other parts of the man cave were just reminders to me of how I was before things starting getting muddy with WAW years ago. I used to be confident and make girls laugh. I was also reminded that real women aren't super attracted to the stereotypical, emotion-pouring, heart-on-sleeve, crying-in-a-rainstorm-outside-of-their-bedroom-window guys from Hollywood chick flicks. I'm not saying I've ever been that extreme! But it was a practical reminder not to even walk down a path like that, especially early in a courtship.
Oh man, a long road trip...that sounds like so much fun. Where did you go? See anything great?
I fled the KY snow storm and drove to south Florida. Drove the orange groves instead of on the busy interstates. Saw Miami beach - even better than advertised. Absolutely beautiful. Brought a hammock tent and camped in the Keys one night. Saw a spring training baseball game on my way back north. It was amazing. And by the time I got home, the roads were clear and the temps up here were reasonable again. Really a perfect trip! Like I said, it just could have been longer
Oh, yeah, one more thing...you might not be crazy to hear this but it's the truth....I'm going to a concert with sis's friend....still, it's all in good fun right now. It doesn't sound like she's looking for a serious R right now, according to my sis, and neither am I. So it should be a good time. I'm in a quandary, though...Since I really do like her and love the idea of SOMEDAY being serious with her, I want her to know I like her and avoid being friendzoned. But also I don't want to take my shot at the R now since neither of us probably have a great chance to start a long-lasting, healthy R at the moment, especially her. And I don't want to have a fling with her, either. So why am I going with her? Because she's cute, funny and loves the same band! So we'll see what happens
Go and have a wonderful date.
Just be in the moment, in company, no expectations.
If it goes OK, set another date, light and breezy
V
I fled the KY snow storm and drove to south Florida. Drove the orange groves instead of on the busy interstates. Saw Miami beach - even better than advertised. Absolutely beautiful. Brought a hammock tent and camped in the Keys one night.
Well, Card, I'm just highly offended that you didn't call me and stop by on your way down to the Keys. Oh....wait...you don't have my phone number.....or know my real name......
Glad you had a nice time!
Haha I actually did think of you, though! You're the only DBer I've noticed with a FL location
TO is in South Florida as well, but I'm not sure where. I've made it pretty obvious I'm in Miami. Although there are approximately 2 million other people here, too.
Anyway, maybe we saw each other and just didn't know it, Card.