Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p3

Starting a new thread before the previous one locks up.... will share more shortly about court date this afternoon....

Thanks to all who have (and who will) comment/listen.

Previous threads:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=31323

Appreciate all who have taken an interest in my situation.....

labug, thanks for your comments. bring over this post from last thread and responding here.

Originally Posted By: labug

First, I am sorry. This is painful but it will pass. Not today or tomorrow but it will. Pain and grief are important, they mark the passing of something important.

Yes, but I don�t like experiencing them! And it has been easier in the past not to�.. I do realize that it will pass at some point � just like some other things I won�t mention here�..

Originally Posted By: labug

It would have been a 180 for you to show some emotion but don't revisit that, you'll have other opportunities.

Yes, I blew that one but did recognize it in the moment which is an improvement. I wanted so bad at that time to just ask her if I could give her a hug � really hate seeing her suffer. Didn�t think that quite fit with the DB strategy and I expect she likely would have viewed that as pursuing�.. Or maybe would have been another example of me being the authority/father figure and her being the child (from my discussions w/T).

Originally Posted By: labug

Does your W look happy and carefree? This isn't easy for her and it indicates how unhappy she was to have to go through this. Yes, I know, she could have tried harder but I'll bet if I asked her she'd say, I tried everything.

No, and you are right she has said (and would likely tell you) that she has done all she can w/o losing herself again. Over the past year that has changed to all she is �willing to do�. Subtle change but I think meaningful to her in some way.

I don't quite get the concept of someone "losing themselves" but I don't have to. I do think if I could ever figure that one out it would go along way in helping me understand/detach/PMA better ... Any help in this area from anyone???

Originally Posted By: labug

Would you have been happy to stay in your M a it was until death do you part?

No, not the way it has been for the past 4 years. To be honest, if it could be the way it was pre-B yeah I probably could have continued that way. At least I think so, but who knows maybe I would have been the one to reach the place where she is currently at � tough to know.

The difference knowing what I know now and growing since B-date, is that I want to have a R that is at an even better level. I just would like to try and build that w/current W versus someone different�.. Or maybe not at all if not her��.

Originally Posted By: labug

Have you read any of the women's threads around here? Many could have been WASs (me included) but stuck it out hoping things would change.

Thankfully you and the others you reference were able and brave enough to do the hard work necessary to improve yourselves and also repair/ rebuild the R. Kudos to you for that � in seems like in today�s day and age (with the focus on instant gratification) it has begun to easy to just move on to the next �feel �good� thing.

Court appt was relatively short and straightforward. Although uncomfortable for most because of the topic, they did a nice job of explaining the process and trying to help everyone through the start of it.

W was clearly emotional and upset during our time there. And was claerly uncomfortable/sad about it. She asked several times if I was ok and how I was doing - trying to start some relatively idle conversation while we outside the courtroom waiting to go in.

At one point I would almost swear that she said something like "I really don't want to be here doing this" - I couldn't quite make out all of it but I think ^^^ is pretty close. When I asked her what it was she said "I don't want to say it again"

Originally Posted By: labug

Does your W look happy and carefree? This isn't easy for her and it indicates how unhappy she was to have to go through this. Yes, I know, she could have tried harder but I'll bet if I asked her she'd say, I tried everything.

Still thinking about this statement /question.

W is clearly still not happy - she was near tears a couple of times today while they were explaining the process.

Still leaves me with the question of if this is such a sure fire wy to her happiness why is she not more comfortable with moving forward???

Originally Posted By: SemperFi00

Court appt was relatively short and straightforward. Although uncomfortable for most because of the topic, they did a nice job of explaining the process and trying to help everyone through the start of it.

W was clearly emotional and upset during our time there. And was claerly uncomfortable/sad about it. She asked several times if I was ok and how I was doing - trying to start some relatively idle conversation while we outside the courtroom waiting to go in.

Were you real with her or did you remain stoic and quiet? I believe in STFU when needed, but there are times to show her how you feel. My intuition, which is often wrong, tells me you restrain positive emotions lot more than you restrain negatives like anger. Or maybe that's the past version of you.

But I thought you agreed you'd show more passion/pain the chance you got but I'm not sure you did.

At one point I would almost swear that she said something like "I really don't want to be here doing this" - I couldn't quite make out all of it but I think ^^^ is pretty close. When I asked her what it was she said "I don't want to say it again"

Originally Posted By: labug

Does your W look happy and carefree? This isn't easy for her and it indicates how unhappy she was to have to go through this. Yes, I know, she could have tried harder but I'll bet if I asked her she'd say, I tried everything.

Still thinking about this statement /question.

W is clearly still not happy - she was near tears a couple of times today while they were explaining the process.

Still leaves me with the question of if this is such a sure fire wy to her happiness why is she not more comfortable with moving forward???

She never said it was a 'Sure fire" way to her happiness.

She's torn, obviously. Instead of cornering her, why not ACT/SHOW how you are a different man but without making such an obvious show about it?

BE different. How would you say you have changed?

Why would she believe marriage to you could be better/different than before?

Experience tells me it's a rare woman with kids, who leaves a marriage unless something important was missing IN the marriage....or in her.

And since she sounds like someone who is trying hard to be happy, my gut says she did try to talk to you about things and her feelings.

Don't FIX her, listen, stfu and work on you.

I think she's on a journey that may not involve you for sometime. (See if you can find a book called something like "A Year by the Sea", or "The Gift of the Sea". One is by Anne Morrow Lindbergh, (yes, THE Lindbergh's) and the other was about a woman who sep from her h for a year for what seems like a big MLC.

It was a true story and they did reconcile. Anyhow, I think you need a lot of insights into more woman over 40. Many of us have deep oceans that we have not let others swim near or deeply...

IMO, chances are good that she wants a meaningful connection w/someone, and for whatever reasons, does not think she can with you.

Any thoughts on your end about that?

Originally Posted By: SemperFi00

labug, thanks for your comments. bring over this post from last thread and responding here.

Originally Posted By: labug

First, I am sorry. This is painful but it will pass. Not today or tomorrow but it will. Pain and grief are important, they mark the passing of something important.

Yes, but I don�t like experiencing them! And it has been easier in the past not to�.. I do realize that it will pass at some point � just like some other things I won�t mention here�..

Originally Posted By: labug

It would have been a 180 for you to show some emotion but don't revisit that, you'll have other opportunities.

Yes, I blew that one but did recognize it in the moment which is an improvement. I wanted so bad at that time to just ask her if I could give her a hug � really hate seeing her suffer. Didn�t think that quite fit with the DB strategy and I expect she likely would have viewed that as pursuing�.. Or maybe would have been another example of me being the authority/father figure and her being the child (from my discussions w/T).

Originally Posted By: labug

Does your W look happy and carefree? This isn't easy for her and it indicates how unhappy she was to have to go through this. Yes, I know, she could have tried harder but I'll bet if I asked her she'd say, I tried everything.

No, and you are right she has said (and would likely tell you) that she has done all she can w/o losing herself again. Over the past year that has changed to all she is �willing to do�. Subtle change but I think meaningful to her in some way.

I don't quite get the concept of someone "losing themselves" but I don't have to. I do think if I could ever figure that one out it would go along way in helping me understand/detach/PMA better ... Any help in this area from anyone???

Originally Posted By: labug

Would you have been happy to stay in your M a it was until death do you part?

No, not the way it has been for the past 4 years. To be honest, if it could be the way it was pre-B yeah I probably could have continued that way. At least I think so, but who knows maybe I would have been the one to reach the place where she is currently at � tough to know.

The difference knowing what I know now and growing since B-date, is that I want to have a R that is at an even better level. I just would like to try and build that w/current W versus someone different�.. Or maybe not at all if not her��.

Originally Posted By: labug

Have you read any of the women's threads around here? Many could have been WASs (me included) but stuck it out hoping things would change.

Thankfully you and the others you reference were able and brave enough to do the hard work necessary to improve yourselves and also repair/ rebuild the R. Kudos to you for that � in seems like in today�s day and age (with the focus on instant gratification) it has begun to easy to just move on to the next �feel �good� thing.

Don't give me kudos for that. Women (and men, I'm sure) stay in unfulfilling Rs for many reasons. Mine weren't noble so much as survival. I did love him but sometimes that's just not enough. Actually it's never enough on its own.

How did you show love to your W?

And the books 25 mentioned-2 of my favorites that I often give as gifts.

25, thanks for paying a visit. Have read many of your comments on others' thread and have gained a lot from that. On behalf of everyone here, thanks for all you do......

labug, thanks for your continued interest in my story. I should have been more clear, my kudos were for showing the initiative and bravery to improve yourself and in the process also contribute toward repairing/rebuilding your R with spouse.

Seems like in so many cases, the alternate easier "feel good/quick fix route" is taken. That seems selfish to me and that route I think often has even greater impact to the person taking it as well as those around them.

The statement above may come across as judgmental in some way and that is not how I intend it. Just an observation about overall culture - not even really specific to the situations here.

Have to take care of a couple of things and then will come back with some more specific updates on my situation and recent comments on my thread.

Have been out of pocket a few days - sickness and hectic work schedule. Will try to catch up on recent events over the next couple of days.

In the meantime - could use some help on a conversation I think I need to have with W.

She is getting close to deciding on buying a new car yet has filed D paperwork. As part of that process it is my understanding (and L confirmed) that neither of us are to take any significant financial actions.......

L also suggested that if I say nothing it could be interpreted as implicit agreement because I know she is pursuing it and did not say anything to her.

Thoughts/comments on how to approach?

Was thinking something like below:

"W, feels like you are getting close to deciding on your next vehicle. If that is accurate, seems like it would make sense to talk about that decision in the broader context of our situation. Can we maybe carve out some time this weekend for that?"

Thoughts/edits/suggestions......

Hi Semper Fi, I think you suggested language to W is too unclear. What do think of being more direct, something along the lines of "our divorce papers stop us both from making significant purchases right now, until the divorce is complete."

I'm sorry I don't remember does your W have a lawyer? If so, then you can refer her to her lawyer to confirm this.

Thanks for the comment Wet - and the gentle 2x4!

I usually have no problem (other areas other than W) with direct and find that it often works best.

I guess I was just trying not to throw the D in her face knowing that she really wants the new vehicle. Hmmm - maybe her reaction to that is part of letting her feel the impact of decisions she is making / has made?????

I think the lack of directness from me (especially in areas where she is likely to be disappointed) has been present before and is something I should look at more deeply. In those types of circumstances tend to feel like I have failed in some way or let her down..... interesting.......

I agree with Wet.

You also worried a lot about the D papers when just asking a direct question would have given you an answer.

Dbing doesn't mean you never ask a question, especially when not asking could have serious impact on your life.

What's the fear that's holding you back?

Glad you're feeling better.

almost back to normal labug......

fear of the actual D I guess??? but not sure - there are certainly things about being D that would be better than the limbo space I have been in.

fear of being a failure at M??? wasn't perfect but certainly not the one wanting to end things at this point

fear of what it will mean for Ss and the example it is setting for how they should approach life???

fear of not having someone to share my life with???

these are few that come to mind quickly. will try to catch up more later tonight.

good morning all.

adding fear of the unknown to the list from last night as a possibility??

Not sure if that's it or not though. Fear is not usually a big part of my life (military background - time spent overseas, parasailing, career changes b/w industries & companies, swimming with sharks, snowboarding, etc.....).

The family loyalty and commitment aspect is huge to me. And I guess the fear of being viewed as a failure in this area???

ok - could use a little help.

just got a text from W stating that she was not planning on have her L @ 1st mediation session tomorrow and asking if I was going to. Also asking if we could meet after work.

Thoughts on response?

was thinking of something like.

"sure, we can meet without them and I think it's a good idea to meet after work."

if nothing else, I think that I could always leave the mediation session saying that I want my attorney to review things before signing or agreeing to anything.

@ least I think that's how this works - really have no experience though so flying a little blind.

any help/thoughts/suggestions??

I think I can meet with her tonight with no expectations that she has changed her mind but if this is an ever so slight "thawing" - maybe it is an opportunity to listen to her and show her that I am different??

or does that approach not align at all with DB'ing? very confused (and reacting emotionally) at the moment...............

W texted me and now wants to just talk later tonight at home.

S16 failed driving part of license test today and she feels like he is very upset and she would rather be at home with. We both hate it for him and are very sad for him about it.... In the grand scheme of things I know it's not huge and he will be fine but I understand to a 16 year it's huge!

In discussion w/T here is what we have come up with for conversation if it can be worked in.....

"We have had a couple of mentions about lately about getting to know each other and who we have become and both wanting a good R moving forward. I am still very interested in this and I think we can do better. I will go through this process with you but maybe we can find a way to give ourselves some time to see how things work out.

My focus will be on protecting my time with the kids and myself financially - because that's what is important to me and who I want to be."

Thoughts/comments?

so no discussion ended up taking place last night. W was tired and went to bed early.

while in the shower she asked if I wanted to meet for lunch today before the mediation session. not sure why she wants to do that but I guess there is no harm in grabbing a bite to eat. if nothing else gives me the opportunity to be more open and show her that I do have emotion and that we can connect.

interesting also this morning that as we were going through the normal morning routine with the kids she kind of half jokingly said "remind me again why we had kids?" a littel bit later I responded with "I guess we had kids so that we could always have our own private circus. never a dull moment"

SemperFi - it seems like things are moving in a positive direction. What do you think? Also more snow coming!

Seems like you were on the right path. I'm looking forward to an update. Good luck!

SemperFi - How is it going?