Previous thread Tenth thread. Whew. This is kicking my arse.
Day 2 of serious no contact. I still hurt but I had a brief moment of feeling ok on my way to work. These brief moments help. I have way more moments of doomsday and despair but I'm trying to see the silver lining.
I see my IC tomorrow and I fear I may sob for 50 minutes straight. And man, I could use hugs. I need some tight squeezes. My poor kid, I make her hug me all the time. I even got a hug from a coworker today, whom I hardly know, because I just needed to feel touch and companionship.
I appreciate all of your support and kindness. I think I could use some serious 2x4s. I can take it. I really need strong perspective here. I'm no longer willing to play "BFF" with him and all this family hanging out is just too confusing for me. It's a farce all this "playing family". I deserve better.
So hit me. I need your 2x4s.
I'm reading a book on radical acceptance. Powerful book. I wish I could feel the openness and freedom that is talked about in the book but I think time will help. Onward with my meditation practice. Onward with boundaries. Onward with finding ways to love myself. Onward with struggling through the anxiety of loss and feelings of abandonment.
I read a FB post today by Elizabeth Gilbert and it said, "I've never seen any life transformation that didn't begin with the person in question finally getting tired of their own bullchit."
I'm getting tired of my own bullchit. About time, right??
Lol
Hey S. Im not sure why you think you should be getting 2 x 4s.
I do think that you are taking some steps to take care of you and that is important.
Just be sure that it is for you and not to get a reaction because that usually backfires.
We all go through this in our own time and in our own way. You are grieving the loss of the marriage you knew. You are trying to find your way. It is hard stuff.
What I would like is for you to really start to believe that you will be ok...no matter what happens. You will be. Without a doubt.
The truth is that you have to come to a place of acceptance of what is right now. Doesnt mean it will always be like this. But accepting it allows you to move forward. I think you are kind of stuck a bit.
Please remember to show your daughter strength as much as you can. Thats not to say she shouldnt see you sad, because this is a sad thing. But, she is watching closely. You have the opportunity to show her how to get through life's turmoils with courage and strength. What a wonderful gift. Show her well.
So, what is the fear, S? Let's talk through it. When you face them, you will see they arent as you thought they were.
Do what you have to do to take care of you. ((((hugs))))
UR, I appreciate you asking about whether I'm going nc with him for me or for a reaction. I'm asking myself that a lot these past two days. I can say honestly that the no contact is for me but the anger towards him about it is for reaction and since he's not around to witness my anger, it's kind of silly and self-destructive, no? I need to figure out how to maintain no contact and still be detached without coldness. It's more of an art than a skill, I'm finding.
I think I'm exemplifying strength to my D, as much as I can. I'm trying to exemplify strength to myself as much as I can.
The fear you ask? Oh I have so many. Being alone. Unloved. Without a partner. Financially strapped. Being divorced. Being a divorcee. Selling the house. My daughter being a child of divorce. Dating (barf). Trusting anyone again. Loving anyone again. Letting my guard down again.
I keep getting stuck in the swamp on this treacherous journey.
I feel very alone in all this. I know no one who is divorced. My closest living relative is in Boston (I'm in CA). My friends are dropping like flies as far as support... I'm standing, but I feel like the earth around me is scorched and barren.
Hey, I'm here. Can you feel the friend vibe I'm sending? I'm here.
Top of my thread 25 there's a great motivational quote that says fear is a lighthouse. If you want to be extraordinary, aim in the direction of your fear. Your life will be transformed.
I don't intend to be A Divorcee. I intend to be Maybell. Free as a bird, heart of a lion, gentle as a kitten.
Care to join me, friend?
You are so strong and so sparkly. You are already amazing. When will you notice?
Maybell, I love that post.
The fear you ask? Oh I have so many. Being alone. Unloved. Without a partner. Financially strapped. Being divorced. Being a divorcee. Selling the house. My daughter being a child of divorce. Dating (barf). Trusting anyone again. Loving anyone again. Letting my guard down again.
Ok, I get those fears. I had them all. Lettered in them. Got the tee shirt, even. You are getting so far ahead of yourself it is keeping you stuck.
You cant do this if you do that. Trust in you, S. Believe in you. You will be happy again if you choose to be. Finding joy in your life is a choice. It doesnt hinge on him. It really doesnt. Because the thing is that in order to love you have to love you. In order to feel joy, you have to look within.
If you put all of that on him, it is a terrible burden. If you do that, you do yourself a disservice. You wont ever be fufilled if your happiness is contingent on someone else. You just wont.
Someone should enhance our life, not determine it.
Find you, S. Find your worth. Find what makes you laugh. Who do you want to be? Be that person every day. Some days you make it, some you dont, but that should always be the goal.
You will get through this and come out the other side if you do the work. I promise you that. It is going to be hard, I am not going to lie. But man, the rewards are amazing.
Leave him to himself, S. Let him figure himself out. You work on you.
COme on now, you can do this.
Maybell, what a lovely post. I DO feel your friend vibe! You're one of the strongest ladies I know. I appreciate you being here, sharing your experiences, chiming in on mine and generally being there to lift me up.
I really do have moments of strength but they are fleeting. I'm not sure what's up with that but... Yeah.
I'm finding that I'm resisting so much about this process. It's instinctual I think. To fight against a complete life upheaval that's taking place against your wishes. Adaptability was never a strong suit. It's a muscle I didn't strengthen because I just foughtt against it. And now...
Like uR says though, I'm way ahead of myself. That's what fear is though, living in the future. I keep trying to lean into my fears but that means I'm leaning into the future. How can I reframe that, maybell? If fear is a lighthouse we are all supposed to move towards, why are we all not moving towards divorce since we all fear that??
Am I looking at that too directly? I feel like I don't even know how to think correctly. Lol
I don't even know which way is up.
I can let him figure himself out. It takes trust in him that I don't have but I also don't have options. It's ME I can't figure out. I'm working a job I hope is temporary, in a home that may or may not be temporary, while advocating for my daughter who is in a school that may be temporary, I'm separated temporarily until either marriage it divorce is chosen...
I'm in temporary hell. I know it's temporary but that doesn't bring stability faster. I could use some stability. Yes. I could use that.
I don't feel sparkly, maybell. I don't feel bright and shiny at all. In fact, I feel quite dull with absolutely nothing important to contribute to any conversation or relationship. I have value, yes. I'll never forget that list of 20 things I made, uR. Ever. But it feel like my personal value has no street value.
I can absolutely do this, I'm just not quite sure how. I've tried so many things and nothing seems to be lasting.
Oy vey. I sound very pathetic. I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...
What is a lighthouse? It's just a marker.
Imagine you're the captain of a 19th century whaling ship. You've been tossed on a hurricane for an unmarked amount of time, and now the seas are subsiding but it's dark and you are so storm-tossed you don't know where you are. Supplies are low, your ship has been damaged, and your sailors are tired and scared.
In the darkness you see a lighthouse. Do you head straight for it? No. Because here's what you know about lighthouses:
- They mark the shore, not necessarily a safe place to land your ship
- The shore is often approached by shallows that can be rocky or marked with sandbars, both of which are dangerous to ships
- Lighthouses generally are placed on fairly barren spots that are chosen for their visibility at sea rather than their resources for human comfort. (So no resources for resting your weary crew)
BUT, if you see the lighthouse, you know it marks the boundary between land and sea. You know that if when the skies clear you'll be able to take your bearings and maybe even send a rowboat to shore to find out where you are. When you see the lighthouse, you know that YOUR CONDITIONS HAVE CHANGED.
Fear is a LIGHTHOUSE. It is the barrier between one state and another. In your case, it's the barrier between you living stuck, worrying about your crazy H (and yes, he's CRAZY, even you can see that and you're trying to deal with him as though he's really rational and he's not) and you living free as the authentic Ss06 that you haven't really had yet the opportunity to be as an adult.
Divorce is a rock or a sandbar. Or a grumpy crewmember who threatens mutiny. It is not the lighthouse.
Through the second half of my marriage, there were a lot of things i wanted to explore in life: I wanted to be more intentional about our finances and general consumption. I wanted to be more spiritual. I wanted to lead the kids towards having less stuff and more experiences. I wanted to travel more. H put his nose in the air at all of those and vibrated between mocking me and sulking. He undermined me at every opportunity and was very passive-aggressive about never evolving or growing.
He's left me. I have done everything I could. Now all that life I wanted to explore, that I thought I'd given up because I was committed to being married to him -- I'm free to explore that and to find a life that feels authentic to me. I am free to NOT be ambitious in my career if I want (I am a little ambitious, but it's part of a greater whole, rather than a goal in itself). There's a whole life beyond that fear that I can be embrace. I'm not going to let the message of the lighthouse be that the rocks are too scary for me to land my ship and find out what land I'm in.
Ss, you've already been tremendously strong. You KNOW that life exists after your husband is gone. When you wake up in the morning, what will your attitude be? You can fear. Those won't go away just because you say "I don't want to be afraid." But you can live through them as you've lived through everything else and realize that your life will still go on and you can choose how rich it will be.
I wish you'd stop being embarrassed about working at Banana. I wish you'd own it. You've made a choice that's good for you. If your friends are too pearl-clutchingly shallow to think that was awesome of you (and too dim to realize it's temporary), then leave them behind and move forward to find friends who are more authentic. You deserve richness in your life. Find ways to provide it. Think about your LIFE, not the markers in it that come from having been storm-tossed.
One more thing... one of my friends lived through her parents' divorce when she was 5. She saw her dad being physically abusive to her mom. This terrified her for YEARS. Do you know how strong her mom was? She refused to take any spousal support. She had been a SAHM for however many years and had I think three? kids. She got a job as a secretary -- best she could do. She worked her way up to being VP of a BIG company. Sometimes along the way my friend and her siblings didn't really have enough to eat. When my friend was 14 she got her hand very badly broken at school and had to wait in the nurse's office 5 hours till her mom could get away from the office to take her to the ER (and then she endured 8 hours of surgery to rebuild her hand).
What does my friend remember about her mom? That she was STRONG. Life was sometimes hard, and I'm sure my friend complained as a child, but her mom was strong, she was present for her (even when she couldn't get away from work) and they are tremendously close now. (Coincidentally her mom met and married a man who still treats her like a queen and is the love of her life). See where the lighthouse can lead, not just you, but also your D?
Be sparkly and beautiful today, Ss. Be yourself.
That's what fear is though, living in the future. I keep trying to lean into my fears but that means I'm leaning into the future. How can I reframe that, maybell? If fear is a lighthouse we are all supposed to move towards, why are we all not moving towards divorce since we all fear that??
Don't move towards the DIVORCE. Move towards being the person you want to be, the one you would be if you didn't fear the divorce itself. The person you wouldn't let yourself be while you were trying to cope with family life. Adapt to that positive image. Let the details of the divorce (if it happens) and separation be just bumps you navigate while moving towards the life you've imagined for yourself.
For me, the fear was about knowing that if I choose for myself then I'm choosing to go where I know my H won't follow. The problem with that is, a good partner/spouse won't force that kind of a choice on me. He'll let me know which parts he will walk with me, which parts don't appeal, and why. And then we can plan the journey together. But even if there are parts of the path my good spouse doesn't want to walk with me, I as a whole person will remain appealing to him, because he can see qualities in me that he loves in the journey I choose, and he'll want to nurture those good qualities.
I think you're EXCELLENT at adapting. Look at what your life has been like. All you've done is adapt. Now you've gotten to a place where you're tired of bending and you want someone else to bend.
You're on a rocky road with a boulder in your path. It's blocking your view but if you look around it you'll see a beautiful vista, with sky and all kinds of unimaginable things. Maybe your H will go around the boulder another way and meet you there to see the view. Maybe he'll fall down a ravine or get lost or see a different view that you find less appealing. Don't let that keep you from going around the boulder.
Hey, do you or your D have the Dr. Seuss book "Oh The Places You'll Go"? It's one of my favorites. You should read that today.
You guys are so inspirational.
Friend vibes coming from other here, too.
Maybell, every word you wrote is resonating with me today.
I woke up a little lighter and a smidge less bitter.
There are so many things I want for my life FOR ME. They're little things but they mean so much. It may sound strange but without him around I get to listen to whatever music I want. With him working in the music industry he's very picky about music quality and all that so some silly, catchy, fun songs were never allowed without some over analysis about the bubblegum chords and terrible production quality... Blah, blah...
Sometimes just singing along to I'm Walkin' On Sunshine is FUN!! Or if I want to hear the same song 4 times in a row because it 'speaks to me' then I have the freedom to do that. Who knew?!
Anyway, you're right, it seems my ship is stuck but I can allow the lighthouse to guide me, I think. What a great metaphor.
And you know what? I AM great at adapting. I generally roll with the punches and always have. Yes, I fight them at first but I do adapt and often for the sake of others. I think it's hard to adapt for my own sake. Or at least to give myself permission to want change and want others to adapt to me for a change.
So you think he's CRAZY, huh? Yeah. He'd argue that it's me who is crazy.
I talked with D last night after she kicked my butt in a brutal game of Yahtzee. I was telling her all the things I thought were amazing about her, just as she is. Her spirit, her giving heart, her compassion for those left out or behind, her drive to learn, etc. She stopped me and said, "do you think I'll be as strong as you, mom?" I said, "do you think I'm strong? Like strong muscles?" She said, "well, yes, you have strong muscles but I mean strong inside?" I laughed because I thought of you, maybell, and said, "You already are, honey. You're the strongest girl I know." Then she gave me the world's best hug ever and we talked about what it means to be tough inside. A total Lifetime Movie of the week moment and it is keeping me going today.
Thanks for the lift up, maybell. I have a boulder to get around. Is it ok to wave at H while he's stuck down in the ravine?
Wow, everybody. I've been too afraid to post on my thread because I've been feeling so down. But oh my goodness did I need to read what you all told SS, and what SS just said up above! I was literally reading this feeling like it was written to me. This board is so amazing. I am struggling so much in this new year with the fear of a divorce, which is making me run from my fear instead of toward it. But I love what Maybell said about not moving toward divorce but toward the person I would be if I didn't fear the divorce. I want to be strong for my kids. I want to be someone they can look up to. I want to go back to working full-time in my industry, which is my passion and one of the main reasons I went to college in the first place. But yeah, I have this stupid fear of "Oh no! What if I get a full-time job and move on and H just files for divorce?" Well, so what! Then he was going to file either way.
And, SS, one of the things I've had to do to get through the tough days is to remind myself to take this one day at a time. I sometimes hate living like this, but I don't know how else to survive. On the way home from the dentist today I picked up deli sandwiches for an easy dinner for the kids and we had a little picnic in the living room, which they loved. Tonight one of my favorite new shows is on TV. It's so cold tonight and we're in a nice, cozy, warm house. This is today. Tomorrow might be different. But today I'm OK and I'm not going to think too much about the future, but what's right in front of me, literally.
Hope I didn't hijack too much!
Are you reading Tara Brach? It's the book that started me on my journey, even before BD.
Keep going.
Ss - do you read Brave girls Club on Facebook? If not, I suggest you might. They've got some good stuff there. Below is their daily Truth. It made me think of you and so many others on this board.
---
Dear Lovable Girl,
There are a whole lot of people in the world. There are all kinds of people...people who love all kinds of things and people who love all kinds of people. There are also people who have a hard time loving anything at all.
Beautiful friend....life is much too short to ever stick around a person who makes you feel like you are difficult to love. Time is much too short to spend time with any person who sees more of what is wrong about you than what is right about you.
We can limit the time that we spend with others. We can walk away from relationships that hurt. Sometimes it’s better to learn to love ourselves enough to be alone for a while rather than be with someone who continually tears away at us.
We can believe in people, we can love them, we can wish them well, we can extend a hand in emergencies, we can speak well of them and believe well of them.....and at the same time, keep our time with them to a minimum.
You are lovable. You are worthy of love. Please learn to love yourself enough to only allow others to treat you the way a lovable, worthy human being should be treated (the way everyone should be treated).
You are worth everything it takes.
You are SO very loved.
xoxo
Lorelai, we are so lucky and fortunate to be able to crumble completely and the people here will listen and say, "I've been there, this helped me". This process is hell but it would be so much worse were it not for this board and these caring people. Thank you maybell, uR, labug, card... Absolutely everyone!!
Labug, yes, Tara Brach. Incredible stuff. Truly.
Calibri, I'm off to follow because I AM a brave girl. So are you! We all are. So, so brave!!
I am feeling much, much better tonight. The ache in my chest is diminished and I can actually take a deep breath. It's a nice change.
I'm a drastically changed woman since July. H wouldn't know that because he has not taken the time to see me. It'd be a shame for all this to end without him knowing what he's actually leaving and without him doing the necessary work but his choices are his choices. Painful yes but today they're looking less insurmountable.
P.s. It was 79 degrees today and will be about 83 tomorrow. Listening to my own music while all the car windows are down? Priceless!!
Today was a good day. I smiled a lot. I laughed a bit. I looked good. I took care of me. I took care of others. I spoke to my loving and supportive brother (who is super busy so it's a small miracle that we even spoke). I joked with my daughter. I connected with friends. I took steps to become the future Ss.
I did not experience the pain in my chest from all this. Not once. I did not cry. I did not feel like a victim. I did not wallow. I did not worry about the future. I breathed deeper and lighter.
My little brother asked me to think, just think about WHAT I want. He said not to think about the HOW (oh, he knows me well!), just the WHAT. Here's my early list:
I want to learn French.
I want to visit my older brother and SIL in Dublin with D.
I want to see the cherry blossoms in DC with D.
I want to buy tires for my car without a man's help.
I want to deepen (though not lengthen) my meditation practice.
I want to build a support system around me that I can fall back on and be there for.
That's it for now. My list of WHAT without thinking about HOW. I'm sure I'll have more but right now, that's pretty good, I think.
Good on you, S. I love your list.
I know you get antsy with wanting to be at a certain place in all of this. But you just need to trust the process. Let this unfold and be open to the possibilities.
I just bought tires without a man....it was easy. Did some homework. Made some calls and got er done.
. You can do it, S. They are just tires, ya know?
. Feels good to cross stuff off your list. Go for it!
Hi Ss
I find doing things to nurture me helps. I love working out and going to Hot Yoga. Have you thought of booking yourself for a massage or pedicure? Human touch is important a massage can really help in that way. I am not much different than you when it comes to dating and letting someone else get close I'm pretty guarded too. It would take someone pretty special to get my attention. That's ok though. Plan life anyway. I still go out with friends and plan holidays. Life is too short not to live it and we only get one.
Good job,ss. I like uR's tire story. It's the little accomplishments that add up. Here's the great thing, the more things you accomplish on your own, the more self esteem and respect you develop.
You'll never fear being "alone" again. Because you are strong and resourceful and capable and can create your own life.
UR, Karma and labug, thank you!
I'm calling about tires today. Yay!
Karma, I'm getting a facial later this month with some friends. I hadn't thought of that as a way to indulge in physical touch but being so deprived as of late, I am really looking forward to it beyond the skin cleansing/ plumping benefits.
Dating seems like it'll never happen, not that I'm even considering it right now. How does that even work? Do men ask women out anymore? How? I can't even wrap my head around it.
Labug, i used to be so independent. I left home at 16. I paid for my own private high school education, worked 40 hours per week, was in 4 AP classes and swam 4.5 hours/day... I know how to get stuff done... I'm daunted by silly things like car mechanics but it's the analysis paralysis, nothing else really.
I'm actually considering getting a new car. The car I have is a hand-me-down from H before he got his MLC car and it doesn't serve me well. It's difficult for D to get in and out of because it's so small, I can't fit anyone else in it with D's car seat installed... It's just not right for me. So, I'll begin that research, too. I obviously won't buy without talking to H since our finances and insurance are still tied together but the research, etc. ALL ME!!
If things with H work out or I somehow find another partner, I want them to just be icing to my life, not the entire cake. That's hard when they're involved with everything and live in the house and share your bed but I never want to enmesh myself so deeply with anyone again.
I've had dreams the last two nights about my situation. In the past 6 months of our separation I've not dreamt about H a or anything to do with him at all. The past few nights I've dreamt of him as a peripheral character to my life, someone that I used to know, someone who sits in a different row at D's school performances, someone who attends events but isn't invited back to the house for the after party. I found that interesting.
Right now I'm most grateful that the searing pain in my chest is gone. It isn't coming back in a stabbing wave when I remember painful points of this awful situation. It doesn't make me double over first thing in the morning when I wake up and reality comes flooding back.
I'm feeling ok. I feel like me. The real me. And I'm slowly walking towards the future Ss.
So happy to read all of that, Ss! Karma has a great point about human touch. Personally, I get mine for D2...I've taught her the art of the bear hug
Any photography leads lately? And did you see my note on your last thread, that my S is in Sherman Oaks?
Yes, card, D is so good at hugs that I get goose bumps. It helps. A lot!
I am teaching an advanced camera/photography one-on-one this coming Sunday and have a basics class tentatively scheduled for a group of moms who got dslrs for Christmas. That's about it.
Yes, I saw that your sister is in Sherman Oaks. I'm not far. About 40 minutes north. There are some great restaurants in Sherman Oaks. How long is she here?
I like what Im reading, S.
When you find a car you like, I would like to see you be in control. No asking permission, no asking his opinion, right?
A simple, "Ive decided that the car I have now doesnt work for me and D, so, I have found one that would better suit us."
You have allowed him to make you feel less than, and you are certainly not.
You are taking back your power a little at a time. I am loving it.
Keep going, sweetie. There are good things on the other side.
No need to worry about dating now. Try really hard not to get ahead of yourself. ONe step at a time.
I think she's only there another 2 months, then she's off to San Diego. She is a very outdoorsy person, so she has been soaking up the beaches and parks anytime she's not at work. Last night we Facetimed...she was on a dog beach, basking in the sun. I was having a different kind of fun...tossing cups of boiling water out into the 0ºF air outside
Lay the restaurant recommendations on me and I'll pass them along to sis
Lay the restaurant recommendations on me and I'll pass them along to sis
First there's Clay Oven for Indian. Really good! Then there's Cafe Cordiale for cocktails and jazz by LA's studio musicians. Bamboo is the best Chinese food in the valley by far. Cafe Bisou is pretty good, too. If she's heading to the beach a lot tell her Taverna Tony's is amazing Greek food in Malibu, Moonshadows for drinks in Malibu and if she's feeling up to it, hang out at the Starbucks at Cross Creek in Malibu for 10 minutes and you'll see at least one celebrity, if not 5. Malibu Seafood has outdoor dining and we see dolphins swimming every time we go (it's very casual, flip flops and shorts kind of place), Blue Plate Oysterette in Santa Monica is my favorite.
I'll pass it all on. Interesting, my favorite Indian restaurant in my town is also called Clay Oven.
I've never been much of a celebrity gawker, but she seems to get a big kick out of it. She met Jennifer Lawrence, who is from our hometown (Louisville), on a nature trail last week. Got pictures of their dogs playing together.
Thanks!
So, tell me...
In this deep journey of self it's inevitable that I will make progress. It's slow sometimes, especially for me (overthinking will do that), but progressive nonetheless.
If my marriage is on the proverbial shelf, a la UR, at what point do I open that box again? Just curious. Or do I never open it unless he offers to open it. I don't know...
I keep having these fleeting thoughts of pursing which is precisely why I put the kibosh on hanging out all the time as a beautiful little family of three. It's a sham, so I stopped it, plus it's super confusing. Oh yeah, even though he made us dinner and emptied the dishwasher (things he didn't do while we were married) he doesn't want to be married to me (can you guess that my LL is acts of service??). It's a tease.
Then I wonder, down the road, I don't bring up any R talk... Until when? He does? What does DR say? I'm confused about the process.
Great questions Ss. I have gone back and read DR many times to find out the answer to that. Looking forward to seeing the responses.
I'm no vet. But I have asked myself that question about 1,000 times. I didn't feel comfortable with my answer until very recently. And I think the answer for you, right now, to this question:
I don't bring up any R talk... Until when?
is similar to my answer: something along the lines of "not right now". I think the appropriate time will come up naturally if you focus on the right things now and going forward. Let's say you follow the DB path as closely as you can...you truly detach, you dig deeper yet into yourself and really start to make permanent changes, you become excited about your future, regardless of the outcome with WAH. If you do all of that, you won't be obsessing over this question because of your detachment. At that point you could answer the above question from a position strength, calmness and clarity.
And odds are, he would bring it up before that point, anyway. And he may have been influenced by your changes, your happiness, your radiance, your detachment (I hesitated to write that sentence because you making that progress in order to influence him is not progress at all. But I know you know that.). And if he hasn't brought up R talk by the time you got to that point, you will be able to be confident you have waited for the right time to temp check.
I don't blame you at all for wondering, though! I have been there so many times. Stay strong Ss. Oh, and my sister said to tell you thanks. She was thrilled by all of the recommendations since she doesn't know any locals except for nurses she works with. And a lot of them are somewhat hostile/distant towards traveling nurses.
Thanks card!
You're probably right. It seems DBs answers to everything are so nebulous: "not right now", "when you're ready", "once you've done the work", etc. I don't mean to poke fun so much as lighten my own thoughts on it all.
So, "not right now" is right, I think. I mean, I know it's not time and let's face it, I'm too terrified to ever bring it up again because it backfires big time but it feels disingenuous to operate as if we're on the same path (him towards D and and me towards not), however, it doesn't matter right now. I'm good doing my own thing, finding what I want, how *I* intend to get it for myself and just constantly digging deeper.
I'll just keep that up. Heh heh.
Card, if you're sister is looking for friends, I'm happy to meet her. Not sure how to go about doing that without breaking rules here but I'd hate to think of her being alone and dealing with distance and hostility from coworkers while so far from home. Anyway, the offer is there.
After reading About Maybell's night, I can't help but ponder when that conversation will go down for me. I fear it'll go down similarly and I want to have half as much grace and strength to navigate it as she does. Therefore, ONWARD!
I agree, when you're asking those questions, some of DB's answers don't scratch the itch just right, if at all. But can you imagine labug or someone answering you with something definitve like "after 6 months" or something sappy like "when you see a glimmer in his eye"? Lol i can't, and that's why I would spin circles in my head with that question, even though I rarely (if ever) asked it here. I wanted to hear something definitive, almost like a date on the calendar I could circle, but I already knew that the vets would 2x4 that hope out of the park (and rightfully so)
Sis does have her awesome H with her, and her dog. Since they're only there another 6 weeks, they'll probably survive
plus she is very friendly and will almost surely pick up a couple of acquaintances if she hasn't already
S, here's my take. First let me say that there are no hard and fast rules. Each person, each situation, each personality is different.
The common consensus, though, is this. You will know, without a doubt, when he is looking towards reconnecting. And the truth is that storing your marriage safely away, for me, means that you will always remember the old marriage. But it will never be that marriage again. And truthfully, you wouldnt want it to be.
When you pursue, you are telling them that you dont hear them. You are saying, I know what you said, but, it doesnt matter what you want, what matters is what I want. They need to feel heard. That honors the marriage.
When they feel like they are not being heard, it frustrates them. You dont have to like it, but, you do have to respect how he feels at this time.
They have to see that the changes are real. They have to see they are consistent over time. They have to see that once you are not in their life and they are still not happy, that it wasnt you.
Thats not to say you didnt contribute to problems in your marriage, because we all have. But in order for them to gain perspective, they have to follow their path.
I know it all seems like a game. But the truth is that dbing is a way to live your life. It could save you and sometimes it saves marriages. I believe it gives the best chance of that.
He cant move forward while looking over his shoulder at you. You cant move forward while looking at him.
It really is best to let this play out. It's best to figure out you. Find you and your worth.
Then if he looks towards you, you can decide what you want from a position of strength.
I wouldnt worry right now about when you should say something. You are far away from any of that.
He has to see you moving forward...and you need to be. That doesnt mean moving on or giving up. It means living your life for you.
This is so, so true.
We can't microwave this.
You are right where you need to be.
S, here's my take. First let me say that there are no hard and fast rules. Each person, each situation, each personality is different.
The common consensus, though, is this. You will know, without a doubt, when he is looking towards reconnecting. And the truth is that storing your marriage safely away, for me, means that you will always remember the old marriage. But it will never be that marriage again. And truthfully, you wouldnt want it to be.
When you pursue, you are telling them that you dont hear them. You are saying, I know what you said, but, it doesnt matter what you want, what matters is what I want. They need to feel heard. That honors the marriage.
When they feel like they are not being heard, it frustrates them. You dont have to like it, but, you do have to respect how he feels at this time.
They have to see that the changes are real. They have to see they are consistent over time. They have to see that once you are not in their life and they are still not happy, that it wasnt you.
Thats not to say you didnt contribute to problems in your marriage, because we all have. But in order for them to gain perspective, they have to follow their path.
I know it all seems like a game. But the truth is that dbing is a way to live your life. It could save you and sometimes it saves marriages. I believe it gives the best chance of that.
He cant move forward while looking over his shoulder at you. You cant move forward while looking at him.
It really is best to let this play out. It's best to figure out you. Find you and your worth.
Then if he looks towards you, you can decide what you want from a position of strength.
I wouldnt worry right now about when you should say something. You are far away from any of that.
He has to see you moving forward...and you need to be. That doesnt mean moving on or giving up. It means living your life for you.
I think I need to print this out and remind myself of it every day until I get back to the good place I was at over the summer.
After reading About Maybell's night, I can't help but ponder when that conversation will go down for me. I fear it'll go down similarly and I want to have half as much grace and strength to navigate it as she does. Therefore, ONWARD!
Ss, I want to clarify something here for you.
I do NOT want to be divorced. I do NOT want to be divorced from the man I'm currently married to.
But I DO want a marriage that is rich, collaborative, close, committed, and happy. That supports both of us and also my children.
My conversation with my STBX last night made it very clear that that is not possible with him. Also that it won't be possible with him for years, or maybe ever. It's not possible partly because he isn't capable of giving it and partly because I can no longer trust him to want to be the sort of person who is like that in a relationship. He made choices he hasn't fully owned (the one night stands) and although he "doesn't want to be that guy," he has no idea who he DOES want to be or how to get there.
I strongly believe that I deserve the kind of relationship I've always wanted, and that I am capable of doing my part to make that kind of relationship happen, if I have a willing and able partner. I wish my STBX were that guy. He's not.
So divorce is sad, but right. It's hard, but it's right. I don't want it, but it's right. Last night wasn't about him telling me that he was going to divorce me. It was about us talking through what had happened, where things stand, and agreeing that it was the next step on our path because we can't meet in a relationship that makes us both safe and happy.
I decided to go have that conversation (rather than asking for it in an email) because that's the kind of person I want to be in all my relationships. Someone who can be honest, face hard stuff, and set the tone for a good go-forward relationship (or the respectful end to one). If I end up with the sort of relationship with Mr. Fantastic that Betsey has with Mr. Wonderful, then I'll know I did the best I could.
I do love him and I will always know him. That's pretty much of a win. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to see him grow into the sort of person I always thought he was. But you also had a front row seat to what a struggle it's been to get to this place. This hasn't been about grace. Mostly it's been about keeping moving forward, learning about my boundaries and how to enforce them, and praying and praying and praying for clarity. I would say there's been precious little grace getting to this point.
I was very fortunate that I was able to have the sort of conversation and closure that i got last night. I hope you get that too, regardless of the outcome. Even if you don't, though, I hope you will keep an eye on the land beyond the lighthouse. Some of your thinking about that land should be about who you want to be in your relationships -- and then BE that person in all of them, even when it's hard. It really isn't so much about what HE does as who YOU are. If you can practice doing that, then whether your separation ends in reconciliation or divorce, you will have the peace of knowing you did the best you could.
THAT's how long you keep that relationship in the box on the shelf.
Ur and labug, thank you. Yes, I'm not really looking ahead so much as getting a bearing on where I am. And I'm where I need to be. At least for now.
Maybell, thank you for writing that all out. You deserve a rich, loving, committed and collaborative marriage and I understand where you're coming from when you say you don't want to divorce this man.
I disagree with your statements about grace. You have it in spades, at least from my perspective.
I am grateful for all of you. So, so much.
Ugh, I hate that icky feeling that I get sometimes that comes from confusion and insecurity after a talk with H.
Don't worry... it wasn't a R discussion.
We met at Starbucks because he missed D and wanted to see her just for a quick hug. We got to talking about D's upcoming testing. He asked me how much it was estimated to cost. I told him. He seemed irked and I told him it was pretty standard. He went on to talk about how much he thinks psychologists are a racket and they just want to take people's money and they're happy to keep you coming back week after week just to collect your money and how I was falling into their trap by pursing that with D.
I was confused. He was FINE about testing D a month ago when we first talked about it. He was even fine about it two weeks ago when I was finishing up the application. I emailed the application in and CC'd him and he still said nothing. Now he apparently feels like it's a racket.
He stated that he felt like I was happy to spend "his" money for no true direction for D when it's something she would likely outgrow in puberty.
He went on to talk about how he hated that D was in a private school and that she should be in public school which wouldn't cost "him" any money and she'd likely be "fine".
I reminded him that WE agreed to put her in private school because our local schools are not that good and she needs a much smaller class size than can be provided in the local public schools.
He said, "Oh she'll be fine".
How quickly he forgets.
And apparently I'm all about spending "his money".
He went on to indicate that he was a much more involved father now because *I* wasn't in the way to keep him from being one.
oh really? Did I keep him from driving D to school? Did I keep him from picking her up? Did I prevent him from knowing her teachers name, her social troubles, knowing what piano piece she's working on? Did I keep him from being involved in her extracurricular activities? Did I keep him from helping with homework? Did I keep him from making her meals? Did I keep him from putting her to bed, talking with her, learning what her favorite things are?!
I owned a lot in that conversation. Nothing about our relationship because that's not what the discussion was about but I tried to be level headed about our collective approach to D's testing. He didn't budge at all. No compromise. No give at all.
His opinion I listened to. His view point, his perspective.
He listened to mine as well. But then very soon thereafter belittled it, condemned it and basically affirmed that it was silly, naive and overly trusting.
These are things I've NEVER been accused of before in my entire life.
He owed up to nothing. He copped to nothing. He admitted to nothing.
Nothing.
My fault for not allowing him to be an involved parent? Talk about rewriting history.
All this "wrongness" would have put me into a tailspin last month. Now? Now I'm just confounded. Seriously confused and unsure what to think. What to do.
His perspective is so skewed! I can't set him straight, I know that. His perspective is his perspective but he seriously believes all these horrible things about me that just aren't true.
Why has he painted me to be this person?!
Because it serves what he wants at the moment.
This is where detachment is your friend. You can step back, evaluate as you did, and decide the best way forward for your d. Using your detachment to evaluate the best way to get what you need from your H.
The idea that she'll outgrow all this stuff in puberty is laughable. But what can you do? He's going around his boulder in his own way. So how can you solve for this while accepting that this is the person you have to work with?
I'm guessing that if you carry on he'll kind of just notice without taking much action.
BTW, I notice that a lot of anxious parents get defensive and go into denial about these things when they're anticipating this sort of evaluation. Even the great ones worry that a diagnosis will somehow turn their child into the diagnosis rather than their child. They sometimes let their fear keep them from seeing the diagnosis as a tool rather than a sentence.
Does reframing his comments help with that?
Ss, you're dealing with someone who needs to DB his own life, like you have. The difference is he is NOT doing the work on himself. It's obvious he has not spent much, if any, time in introspection. Do you think he's still miserable? And if so, is he still blaming it on you?
From what I've heard, many WAS's eventually realize that the LBS was not the source of their unhappiness. But just from personal experience (extended family, etc), I know that not all of them do. Some spend the rest of their days believing their life was ruined by some guy 20 years ago. When he starts speaking in "absolute negatives", you have to trust in your own self-work and all of the honest, deep, sometimes painful questions you've had to ask yourself. You are owning what you should own. Don't buy any more than that no matter how much he tries to sell it to you. Also, you did a great job not engaging with the argument! You know exactly where that road leads, and it certainly isn't "ah, I see your point, Ss06. That is a fair statement."
Well, the fact that I didn't spin out of control after this conversation is either a sign that I'm detaching or that I'm getting tired of his chit... same thing? LOL
I can understand worrying that the diagnosis will define D rather than D being D and this being just a part of her... but I think he's more skeptical about any diagnosis actually being any help to us with her behavior or finding the right way to properly educate/challenge her. He's SUPER anti-therapy... yet he sees a therapist.
It's just another reason why he's not up for going to marriage counseling. "what are they going to do for us?"
He sees almost everything at adversarial odds. I am in favor of finding out what is going on with D - all of it. He is in favor of not spending money. He hates psychologists, I think they are useful but there are a lot of bad apples.
Can you help me reframe that, Maybell?
P.s. GO FOR THE HOUSE!
you're dealing with someone who needs to DB his own life, like you have. The difference is he is NOT doing the work on himself. It's obvious he has not spent much, if any, time in introspection. Do you think he's still miserable? And if so, is he still blaming it on you?
Yes. I wish he could get the same advice or at least similar advice that I do here. There is ZERO introspection. He was never big on introspection before (something that really frustrated me) but he is hell-bent on not being wrong. Not just being right but really, really not being wrong and ME being wrong. It's almost childish how much that's his goal.
And yes, he's still blaming all of his unahppiness on me. All of it.
Thanks for the accolades on not reacting. I needed to hear that! i didn't even realize or give myself credit for that HUGE feat! I think I was VERY unreactive. I did feel insecure and uneasy afterwards, worried that the conversation that I would call "a serious discussion" he would deem an "argument" and walk around saying "see? she's such a b!tch and we argue all the time".
Afterwards I was really worried about that. Can't control him though.
(I had to look this up, so don't think I have a super memory)
On 10/19/14, Maybell said this to you:
If I said, "all this will be over in two years, two months, and ten days," what would you do differently than you're doing right now?
Well now the Maybell count is down to 1 year, 11 months and 24 days (or so...I'm bad a calendar math). Anything you'd do or think about differently?
That's such a tough question. My first instinct is to say, "hope that he'll become introspective" Ha! Not exactly doing anything for me, huh?
At this exact moment, I just don't know... except to continue on. Keep going with working on my reactivity, my resentment, my figuring out ME, what I want that's for ME!
Any other suggestions?
You know, S, he is who he is right now. That's the truth of it. So you have to figure out how to handle that in a way that isnt going to get you upset.
He is unhappy. He doesnt really know why. So, he blamed the person closest to him. He said he didnt want to be married, but he is still unhappy. So, he is going to blame the money, and after that, it will be something else....until he looks inside and sees what it really is.
But really, who cares why he is saying this now? He agreed initially, and you made arrangements to have your d tested. You did what you thought was best for her.
He is just looking for ways to place blame. Dont let him.
You did great not reacting.
Now you just have to let what he says roll off your back.
You're right. Maybell, Card, uR...
let it roll away....
if it sticks to me I'll start reacting.
I just need to start seeing, from a more detached place, his words and actions as a movie I'm not involved in.
I am just so grateful this hasn't put me on the floor. Instead of being "floored" by it, I'm just confused.
You know when you try to describes a scene and then someone else describes the exact same scene in a completely different way? It makes you question your own perspective. Is that how it was? Did she say it like that or was how I heard it the way it went down? All of this stuff really makes me question what i know and what I remember about things. It's hard to not think he's insane... or that I am.
Beyond that... it's rolling off my back.
It takes a long time for them to figure out that you are not the blame for all their unhappiness. My spouse blamed me for his unhappiness when we spilt 2.5 yrs ago. Now when we had coffee last week he realizes it wasn't me at all. It was his MLC.
It takes time and distance for them to reflect back and really see. I was packed in a negative boxed and neatly put on a shelve. Now he is able to see what I did do and the efforts I made.
It's comforting to hear that Karma. Unfortunately, my H has never really been introspective and seems absolutely hell-bent on never having to be. He's stubborn too. Very. I can see him leaving, being "happy" about it and if that ever changed he would absolutely NEVER admit that to me.
The self-righteousness is exhausting.
It's such a comfort being human and knowing that if I make a mistake I can genuinely own it, apologize and make amends. It must be terribly burdensome to be perfect and right all the time.
Ugh, I hate that icky feeling that I get sometimes that comes from confusion and insecurity after a talk with H.
Do you know what that icky feeling is? You feeling responsible for whatever feeling he's expressing. Recognize that and absolve yourself of that responsibility. (I have to remind myself of this often, just so y'know)
We got to talking about D's upcoming testing. He asked me how much it was estimated to cost. I told him. He seemed irked
Right there, you named his emotion and took responsibility for it, wanted to fix it.
If I were to mind-read, which I occasionally do, there are a few emotions he could be feeling about the testing, #1 being fear about what the testing will reveal. Men (broad generalization here) are fixers/protectors and when they feel out of control and unable to do those things, they often move to anger.
I was confused. He was FINE about testing D a month ago when we first talked about it. He was even fine about it two weeks ago when I was finishing up the application. I emailed the application in and CC'd him and he still said nothing. Now he apparently feels like it's a racket.
Not. your. problem.
He stated that he felt like I was happy to spend "his" money for no true direction for D when it's something she would likely outgrow in puberty.
He went on to talk about how he hated that D was in a private school and that she should be in public school which wouldn't cost "him" any money and she'd likely be "fine".
I reminded him that WE agreed to put her in private school because our local schools are not that good and she needs a much smaller class size than can be provided in the local public schools.
He said, "Oh she'll be fine".
How quickly he forgets.
The next time he goes on a mini-rant, remember that it might be fear and end it with something like, "Wow, you really have strong feelings about this."
Don't make it abut you.
And apparently I'm all about spending "his money".
Unless he said those words, don't make it about you.
He went on to indicate that he was a much more involved father now because *I* wasn't in the way to keep him from being one.
oh really? Did I keep him from driving D to school? Did I keep him from picking her up? Did I prevent him from knowing her teachers name, her social troubles, knowing what piano piece she's working on? Did I keep him from being involved in her extracurricular activities? Did I keep him from helping with homework? Did I keep him from making her meals? Did I keep him from putting her to bed, talking with her, learning what her favorite things are?!
Unless you believe any of that to be true, don't take it on.
Leave it with him. Be happy he is now a more involved father, no matter what it took.
I owned a lot in that conversation. Nothing about our relationship because that's not what the discussion was about but I tried to be level headed about our collective approach to D's testing. He didn't budge at all. No compromise. No give at all.
What did he not give on? Is he refusing now to pay for the testing? If not, let it go.
He's speaking from his perspective, while carrying around his baggage. You don't have to agree.
Most everyone, when frightened or stressed or not wanting to face ourselves, creates stories in order to make it all about the other person. It's not until we have the courage to be very honest but gentle with ourselves that we can begin to deconstruct those stories.
He's not there.
You can be.
Why has he painted me to be this person?!
See above.
But you don't have to believe his story.
Don't bite the hook.
such great advice, labug! Thank you.
And you hit the nail directly on the head. The icky feeling IS because I felt responsible for his feelings. I do that A LOT!
I know where a lot of this is coming from. I spoke to my little brother about it just the other day and he says he struggles with it, too.
We don't trust our perspective.
We were trying to figure out why that is. Is it because as children our feelings and perspective just did not matter one iota? I don't know but we both seem to give the benefit of the doubt to the other person.
We assume (first mistake there) that the other person's perspective/outlook/feelings are more accurate than our own and we shove down our own instinct to say "that's wrong" or "that's not how it happened" because we're working so hard to see the other perspective.
It's awful. I really want to bring that up to my IC.
Ugh, I love my IC but really it's just me talking. I need to make it less of me going on and on and more digging deeper, getting her HELP. How do I do that?
Today I'm seeing H as a bully. And not because it makes me feel better about my situation to give him an ugly persona.
A person who threatens and terrorizes, pushes boundaries like a spoiled child, belittles and minimizes, lives in a self-righteous world of protection and has ZERO ability to look inward and consider their own faults...
that's a bully.
D just got off the phone with H for their nightly goodnight talk.
She asked, completely out of the blue, "WHY ARE YOU GUYS SEPARATED".
H always wants to know what "triggers" stuff. And he's really skeptical and distrusting so he often asks me later "did you tell her to ask me that?"
I have never told her to ask him anything. I would never do that. The fact that he even goes there is offensive but whatever.
In response to her question he said, "This is just how it is now. I know you don't like it and it's not what you want but it really will be ok no matter what, ok? It's just how it is"
No reference at all to anything changing and in the moment I felt ok about that. That there's a pretty good chance he will never be moving back home and in the moment, my heart didn't shatter at the thought of that.
After he and D got off the phone, D curled up on my lap and said, "can you explain to me why?"
I just said that marriage can sometimes be very difficult and complicated and sometimes the two adults are unable to workout the issues. I affirmed her feelings, asked if she wanted to talk to Aunt Kelsey (my BFF whose parents divorced when she was 12 and D adores her), someone who completely understands her feelings and what it's like.
D went on to say that the only thing good about all this is that if one of us remarry, there could be a chance she could have siblings and she'd love that. Silly girl... but it's so like her to find the silver lining.
Anyway, this post is more about the fact that I didn't crumble or even get that stabbing pain in my chest when H said, "this is just how it is now". I don't feel incredible resentment, pain, anger, loss, abandonment as much as I feel like I'm coming to terms with it all.
I can't make him look inward. I can't make him do the work. I can't make him own his part. I can't make it work alone.
I just hope D sees that I tried. I really, really, really, REALLY tried.
Have you felt that call when he's said something like that before? That was a huge step for me the first time
Oh my gosh, any reference to continuing the status quo or wanting it to last longer or even head toward divorce by him would have me in the pits of despair for days, even weeks.
I'm not sure why it has taken me SO long to get to this place but I'm here and I'm glad.
That's amazing to hear, Ss. Don't get discouraged if you backslide, either. Know that this is your path, your direction
Thanks for your support and encouragement, card. Seriously.
Your D will see that you tried. You were the one who tried to answer the question. That matters to kids. Well done on all counts.
Thank you, maybell. It really mans a lot to hear you say that. And I mean A LOT!!
hey S. Good on you for answering her directly. You ask if she will know you tried. Trust me when I tell you that she knows. She is watching closely. They figure it all out in time.
You get to show her how to navigate through the tough stuff. Show her well. If you are ok, she will be, too.
As far as always wanting to see other's perspective, I think for those of us who grew up with turmoil, people pleasing comes with the territory most times.
But you matter, S. Your feelings, your opinions matter. No one person is better than any other person.
If took me 4 therapists to find the one that helped me change my life.
I like where you are headed, S. Keep on going.
How much do you think/worry about what D7 will think in the future about all of this?
Ss,
You are such a Rockstar. You are such an awesome mom.
How much do you think/worry about what D7 will think in the future about all of this?
I don't dwell on it but she's observant and super smart. Smarter than she gets credit for and I think she keeps asking about our separation not because she's impatient but because she's not getting satisfying answers. I'm committed to being there for her through this and not just asking what the trigger is or why she's asking about it.
Claire, that made me tear up. Thank you.
I wish I had some great advice for you with her, but so far I'm only tuned into 2 yr old emotions
much easier to understand
Does anyone have what they believe to be a depressed spouse? I mean depressed but they're not aware or think they are?
I can't change him. I can't make him get back on ADs. I know I can't. And his record of introspection doesn't bode well for that happening in the future.
It feels like a tragedy though. That H is so negative and angry. They're HIS feelings and belittling them isn't my goal at all, but will he ever realize that the pervasive negativity and anger isn't only because of me? That he is depressed and has been for years? He took himself off ADs about 6 weeks before BD.
It's hard not to shake my fist in the air at all that.
I guess it doesn't really change much. He is who he is and he'll continue on his non-path of blame and anger and destruction.
Hey Ss,
Yes I believe that STBX is suffering from depression. When I first joined the boards, one of my guiding lights was the thought that STBX was sick, and our vows included sticking together through sickness and in health. Of course, I have wavered on that somewhat, because obviously not all depressed people make these kinds of decisions, so I still feel there is a fair amount of individual choice at play.
In fairness, my STBX has never seen a counselor and has never been diagnosed (to my knowledge), so I'm just indulging in some armchair psychology here. Soon after BD, when I was scouring the internet I read several articles that explained how depressed people behave when in affairs and they described STBX to a tee. He does have quite a number of risk factors including sleep issues and dealing with some pretty disturbing subject matter at work.
I know there is absolutely nothing I can do about any of this. At least not now. I do have some curiosity about what will happen when he realizes I am not the source of all his woes. Or who knows? He may just blame me for everything for the rest of his life.
Ss,
Up until two weeks ago, my H was adamant that he was "absolutely fine" and was not depressed, no mental illnesses, anything. Everything I read, everything my IC mentioned, all pointed to depression, but he was in such denial. I thought, well, perhaps it's not depression but bipolar, or borderline personality.
And then, I don't know what happened, but he finally admitted that he was "severely" depressed. His words.It's like the fog has been lifted. It's almost as if being honest with himself gave him insight. Or maybe therapy is working. Or the AD's. Or all of the above. I dunno. He's gotten much, much better with interactions and has admitted, several times, that he has realized that I'm not the source of all of his problems. I don't think he has the answer to what the source i, yet. But, for the last month or so....it's not me. Who knows if he'll stay in that mindset.
Interestingly enough, my H's brother bomb dropped my SIL the monday before Christmas. He's depressed as well. Not to the extent that my H is, but still depressed. Right now BIL is refusing treatment of any kind, and that will most likely be the line in the sand for SIL. It's interesting to see how depression can wreak havoc on relationships, and within families. SIL and I are both intrigued, for a lack of better words at the behaviors both brothers are exhibiting.
You're right. Nothing you can do to change it. And if that's the case, it absolutely blows.
raliced and calibri, thanks for telling me your stories of your depressed spouses. It helps.
You're both right, there's nothing I can do and if I'm blamed for all of H's pain forever then that's his to deal with...
... meanwhile, I'm going to yoga.
I think you have developed a better and better attitude for taking what's yours and improving on them (your reactions, behaviors, communication skills, etc) without taking what is HIS (specifically him blaming you for all of his misery). You know it's not true, but he believes it is true...for now. I don't think you can project his trend of the last X years of blaming you for everything and extrapolate that to mean he will always be like that, forever and ever. I think if he does turn his mentality around, it would be more like a light switch than a slow changing of the tide. Of course he would have years of personal work ahead of him after he admitted that it's within himself, but his focus could change quickly. I'm not saying that you should sit around and wait for that to happen. I guess I just don't want his current trend to make you think it will always be like that, this nagging ghost for the rest of your life that you always have to be accused by.
How was yoga? My sister is loving LA. Said she'd like to meet you, but I told her you're anonymous lol. I found out today that I might take an annual work trip to CA, to a customer just north of SF. I just moved to a new department, so I'm learning new things about the role everyday. Can't wait for my pacific coast road trip this summer, and now I have that business trip to Petaluma to look forward to. My cousin is in Napa, nearby, and I really can't wait to visit him. He is a wine liaison, or something, and he's trying to start a pizza restaurant. He has a clay pizza oven in his backyard!
Let me know if you need any recommendations.
And Ss, I agree with everything Card said!
My STBX had medicated with pot for a couple of years, began drinking to black out right after bomb drop, had several flings, and attempted suicide a few months ago. She finally saw an IC to try to show everyone she was fine and had all the help she needed. IC told her she was depressed and probably had Borderline Personality disorder.
STBX told me this was all situational because of living with me.
Funny, I don't think about it much anymore. I still think of her daily, and feel some loss that we couldn't make our M work. I still have this feeling that it's absurd, kind of like if I went on a vacation with a bunch of friends but then got into a fight about which radio station we'd listen to so we turned around and called it off. You could say that's minimizing, but we wouldn't be here if we didn't feel that M wasn't a real commitment that took work. Besides, I'm not minimizing intentionally, those are just my feelings which I'm entitled to feel.
But I guess while I still think of it often, it doesn't hold my interest anymore. When I think about it I just go around in circles. It makes me feel rather jaded.
So instead I just laugh it off and focus on me being the person I want to be. I haven't burned any bridges between us, nor in my head, I'm still going to IC and reflecting on how I can grow, but I'm ABSOLUTELY DISINTERESTED in focusing on the dynamic between her and I. I know it's not good DB to not monitor 'what's working and what's not working', but sometimes detaching is more important for me than trying to influence a relationship that was ended by someone else. In a way I feel like "trying to do what works" wasn't working so I'll just be a guy I'm happy with and not look back.
I do wish detachment for you and for you to have a great 2015.
Card, my bestie lives north of SF and really likes it. It's beautiful up there!! Thanks for your accolades. It's nice to hear others perspectives on how I'm doing.
Maybell, thanks for your encouragement, as always.
Zeus, I'm sorry your W was self-medicating and in denial about her possible depression. It all being "situational because of living with you" sounds veeerrryyy familiar. Oy.
I'm not sure why but I'm getting that icky feeling again. Last time I felt this feeling it was because I was trying to take responsibility for H's feelings. Im not doing that right now so I'm trying to just sit with it and figure it out. I really don't like it. Ugh!
I think maybe I'm feeling unproductive today. I've not been sleeping well and I had the day off so I took a nap after reading for an hour. Sounds pleasant, huh? Well, I think I'm beating myself up for it now. What kind of friend to myself am I?
This stuff is difficult, man.
Trust in you, S. Believe in you. You will be happy again if you choose to be. Finding joy in your life is a choice. It doesnt hinge on him. It really doesnt. Because the thing is that in order to love you have to love you. In order to feel joy, you have to look within.
If you put all of that on him, it is a terrible burden. If you do that, you do yourself a disservice. You wont ever be fufilled if your happiness is contingent on someone else. You just wont.
Someone should enhance our life, not determine it.
Find you, S. Find your worth. Find what makes you laugh. Who do you want to be? Be that person every day. Some days you make it, some you dont, but that should always be the goal.
You will get through this and come out the other side if you do the work. I promise you that. It is going to be hard, I am not going to lie. But man, the rewards are amazing.
Leave him to himself, S. Let him figure himself out. You work on you.
COme on now, you can do this.
Ss,
UR is one of the people who pulled me through the past year and a half or so. She is so wise...and knows that she is talking about.
I used to read her words. Copy and Paste them to read again and again....but I wasn't on the other side yet...and didn't know if I'd ever get there.
Today, I can tell you from the other side (mostly...LOL) that you will get here, too. And it is AMAZING over here.
It is so, so, so important that you find happiness within YOURSELF and not your H. It's hard to get there. But, when you finally do, nobody can take that peace and happiness from you....you are so worth it.
I read your "fears" above and yeah, I had many of those, too. Guess what? I don't anymore. When you really start to see that you are going to be okay, no matter what, that there is a beautiful, wonderful life waiting for you, married to H or not.....that's when it starts getting so good.
Oh feenix, thank you so much for stopping by and spreading your wisdom!!
UR is a remarkable gem that has performed CPR on me (proverbially of course) many, many times. The help on this board from the vets, fellow LBS, other moms/dads has just been invaluable. Truly. I don't know where I'd be without uR and about 20-30 other amazing people but I know I certainly wouldn't be in this place, that's for sure!!
I am slowly moving toward personal happiness, one tick of the clock at a time. And you're right, no one can take it from me, I just feel like it's hard to hold on to sometimes, almost like it's slippery and requires my utmost focus to keep it in grip. If I look away for a second, it slips away a little bit. Does that make sense?
Anyway, I'm working on making every and any scenario with regards to my situation ok because I do genuinely know that I will be ok. It's not the life I imagined, that's for sure, but staying in the marriage I had before is also not the life I wanted, either.
Something's gotta give. I'm determined to be stronger, more lively and the ME I've always wanted to be through all this and everyday I have that opportunity. I'm grateful for that. Truly grateful.
Tomorrow is another day... And it's looking bright.
I'm determined to be stronger, more lively and the ME I've always wanted to be through all this and everyday I have that opportunity. I'm grateful for that. Truly grateful.
Tomorrow is another day... And it's looking bright.
THAT ^^^^ is awesome!
It's Sunday. D7 is at H's this weekend and since tomorrow is MLK day, that means through tomorrow.
I have quite literally done nothing. Well, I went out to dinner with friends on Friday to celebrate a birthday but since then, nothing. I have read a lot and napped. I went to yoga yesterday morning...
ok, maybe not NOTHING...
... but nothing substantial or really productive and I'm feeling guilty.
Plus, I'm very alone, very lonely.
This morning H, D7 and I met for breakfast. H invited me. I never know if he's being kind so I can see D midway through his long weekend with her or if he's reaching out to me because he genuinely wants to see me. I'm guessing it's the former rather than the later because it just doesn't seem like he has much to say.
It's hard to watch him with D7 sometimes because he is ALL OVER HER about eating and I have to consciously bite my tongue. I'm of the "pick your battles" philosophy and D7 is a huge negotiator which creates a slippery slope but he just hounds her for the entire meal making it unpleasant for all of us. He doesn't realize this though and I sure as hell won't be bringing it up.
All of this silence brings about lots of daydreaming which I don't think is all that healthy. I have to remind myself, "hey, remember he's not all that introspective so it's not like he's going to suddenly realize you're not the root of all evil in his life and he's not going to suddenly be Mr. Accountable and Mr. Responsible and own up to his own feelings and his role in anything whatsoever so stop day dreaming little missy."
Then I try to lead my thoughts back to me and where I want to go and what I want to do and then I realize I'm kind of tired of thinking about all that.
Anyone else tired of thinking about all this?
Jeez, this is a babble post if I ever saw one.
Anyway,
Nope, this is exactly where I was a few months ago. Minus the eating together thing. We've only had two meals together the five of us 2-3 times since the beginning of September. I don't know what to tell you about the micro-managing of the child. I can tell you I did that a LOT before STBX moved out and it has diminished very greatly since he's been gone. I'm seeing now that it was kind of a stress reflection -- I was trying to control the kids because so much in my life felt uncontrollable. If it helps you to think that might be unconsciously at play with your H, maybe you can relax and not hang on to that resentment when you do spend time together.
Why did you accept his invitation?
There was a time when I took a weekend to do NOTHING on my free weekend and it was tremendously helpful for my healing. I felt guilty about not GALing... and so I questioned why. But I needed to not GAL that weekend, because I needed to be still in my own space and be comfortable being alone. It's important to notice the guilt and question what it's for. What is it telling you? Usually that's an area of dysfunction, right? So sit with it and see what you come up with.
I will start taking notice, maybell, on WAH's micro-managing and try to see it as him trying.
He comes from a family with SEVERE food issues and he always said he didn't want food to be a battle and an issue... yet he makes it one every single time I see the two of them together. It turns into a power struggle between D7 and WAH. Luckily the view was beautiful and I had lots to focus on besides them.
Why did I accept the invitation?
I wanted to hang out with D.
Should I not accept these invitations? He has said that when I have D7 on my weekends, he really, really misses her so I try to invite him on a small thing during that weekend (ice cream or starbucks) so he can chat with her for a minute.
Should I put the kybosh on that and cease accepting these invitations? They are confusing sometimes for me but the time with D is lovely... though, I'll admit, unnecessary.
WAH and I don't really talk. We exchange pleasantries and perhaps a funny quip here or there or a discussion about something at D7's school. Nothing deep or personal, you know?
Hmmm... something to think about for sure, but I really value your insight and perspective, Maybell. What do you think?
As far as the being alone thing goes... I feel guilty for just sitting around the house and barely doing anything. I got take out last night, watched two episodes of Downton Abby and went to bed after reading half a novel.
I need to plan better my GAL and have a friend come over for take out and Downton Abby two Sundays from now. At least I don't feel like I'm doing absolutely nothing if I'm entertaining someone else.
I don't know what to suggest. I am in a place right now where I feel so good about myself that I'm afraid I'm going to tell everyone to make my choices. That's not fair to do and so I'm trying to just observe.
I observe in your case that you spend a LOT of time with your H and that it never makes you feel better about him or about your M.
Also that it doesn't necessarily make you feel better about his relationship with your D.
Also that I think it maybe impacts your relationship with your D because... guessing slightly... you sometimes want to make up for his inadequacies with her?
That last one is maybe mind-reading because it's something I am trying to keep from doing myself. So take that one with a grain of salt.
For myself, I felt better... cleaner... when I didn't go through the "happy family" rigamarole. But I have very little time away from my kids so it's easier for me to say no to STBX because I'm not sacrificing very much of my kids. So again, grain of salt.
I also observe, at my house, that my kids have SPECIFICALLY said that I'm interesting and fun NOW. Given the way STBX and I tiptoe around each other when we're together, I think the contrast is clear to them and therefore I don't want to spend time with him, where I am shrunk and clearly unhappy, and have that show to my kids. So FOR ME, not spending time with him as a "family" is healthier for my kids than putting on that particular show.
That said, S7 still calls us a family of five, and I'm not sure how the D announcement is going to land on the kids, so it's not like this is all rainbows and butterflies, either.
I think it's WONDERFUL you spent a whole evening watching Downton Abbey and reading half a novel. That's WAY better than being paralyzed by your sitch. And you probably felt refreshed in the morning, too. Why beat yourself up for that?
Wait wait.....there was a whole evening watching Downton and reading half a novel? Tell me more, don't leave anything out. Was there a glass of wine? Was it quiet? Was there a cozy blanket? I'm just enjoying a vicarious moment of bliss
Ss - I've noticed that there are quite a number of us on here who are self identified introverts. If you are one, you absolutely need quiet alone time to recharge. Don't feel remotely guilty about it. You need it.
As to the weekend meetups with your H - why not try a weekend or two where you don't accept? I doubt the invitations would suddenly dry up if you decline a few. See how you feel about it and see if it affects D7 at all.
Maybell, I LOVE that you're in a place right now that you want to spread around your joy. It's possible, maybe even likely, I'll find my joy in a similar way. Just the fact that I said that out loud and know it might be true and I didn't start to cry says a lot about where I am on my journey through this. Thank you.
You and Raliced may be right. Right after New Years I didn't accept WAHs invitations to do anything. It was hard but I think it might be better to refrain from the "friend-zone hang out". It does feel less messy and I think it's a healthier message for D7.
So, just kindly decline, huh?
Why is that so novel for me?
I can see a reason in your past, can you?
Do what is right for you. I have very good reasons for making my choices. Do not feel like you'll get the same results from the same ones. But don't be afraid to explore the ones that are inconceivable to you, either. At least stretching yourself like that might give you a little more objective perspective.
SS, just to give you the other side of the story, I generally accept invitations when they involve the kids. Breakfast after church? Yes if a kiddo is going. Otherwise probably not. I don't miss an opportunity to hang with my kids. But that totally might not be right for you. You get to decide that. And please don't feel badly about it either way.
BTW, my kids are older, aren't such clingons like little kids. Makes a big difference in how much time mommy needs away from them!
I can see a reason in your past, can you?
Do what is right for you. I have very good reasons for making my choices. Do not feel like you'll get the same results from the same ones. But don't be afraid to explore the ones that are inconceivable to you, either. At least stretching yourself like that might give you a little more objective perspective.
Oh absolutely I see a reason in my past. Fear of total abandonment? Of never being loved or cared for again? Of everything he says about not wanting me actually being true?
But I also struggle with his cake eating and if he was offering me time with just D7 and nit want to see me at all, there are ways to make that happen but that's nit what he's doing. So, in a way, I'm a pawn and I won't let that continue.
He's manipulative but denies it. I have to follow my instinct.
SS, just to give you the other side of the story, I generally accept invitations when they involve the kids. Breakfast after church? Yes if a kiddo is going. Otherwise probably not. I don't miss an opportunity to hang with my kids. But that totally might not be right for you. You get to decide that. And please don't feel badly about it either way.
BTW, my kids are older, aren't such clingons like little kids. Makes a big difference in how much time mommy needs away from them!
Rpp,
You're right I do get to decide but I do know that D7 can call me or FaceTime with me any time. We don't have to hangout over a meal. Boundaries. They're good things.
Maybell and others,
How do you think I should handle WAH wanting to hang out on my weekends because he misses D7 so much? I obviously don't want to keep him from her or him from her so what do you think about that? I'd love your insight and suggestions.
Put it this way, Ss06.. if you end up D, and I hope that doesn't happen for you, are you going to let him hang out on your weekends simply because he misses her so much? That's not typically the way D works.. maybe he needs a reality check.
That said, I'm not a parent, so that's just an unqualified opinion.
Don't let him cake eat...let him have time with yiur daughter but keep him arms reach from you, ; )
Hey S. First of all, you are still so hard on yourself, sweetie.
Here's the thing of all this. It's not one size fits all. You do what is right for you.
As far as GAL, that's an important one, but one I struggled with for some time.
For alot of reasons. One being that I like to be alone...to regroup, to refocus. I remember thinking, oh boy, they are going to get on me for that. LOL!
But I also found what was good for me. I took some classes through the parks department so they were really inexpensive.
I planned trips I always wanted to take. I didnt take most of them, but planning them was fun.
Think of something you always wanted to learn, then find a way to learn it.
Sometimes you have to push yourself to GAL and it winds up being a lot of fun. Sometimes it's ok to do absolutely nothing for the weekend.
You have to try to find a balance. But I do think it's really important for you to be among people doing something you enjoy.
As far as seeing your h when he has her, here's what I think.
Your motive to see them or not has to be looked at. I get that you miss her, but, Im thinking its more than that.
You are separated. This is what happens when you are. He has to live his choices.
I think as you fill your life up some more, you will be able to handle not seeing her better.
She is with her daddy. Let them form whatever relationship they will. Your job is to cause no harm to it.
So, I would say that you should not accept every invitation to meet up with them.
Hopefully, soon it will be because you are really busy GAL.
For now, do it because it really is best for you and for her.
If he asks, you could just say, sorry, I have plans, enjoy your time with D. You dont have to say it every time, but, I would say it a few times. It helps you and it helps her. Then when you are together, its an ooportunity to show a new SS. Be upbeat, positive.
It is important to live your reality, S. He needs to live it, too.
Vossy! Good to see you! I agree with you. WAH definitely needs a reality check. I'm always mindful though about whether I'm being punitive or attempting to teach him a lesson. That's why this board and you ladies are so helpful. I need to be called to task sometimes.
Karma, I'm coming to some conclusions about WAH's cake eating. Read below.
UR, thanks for coming by. I've missed you.
In my particular situation I'm beginning to see a pattern emerge. At BD and regarding separation, WAH has called pretty much ALL the shots. HE dictated when and how he would move out. HE dictated what furniture he would take. HE dictated how and when we would tell D. When separation is a one sided decision, many of these "dictations" make sense.
Now, however, as I am slowly coming into my own and owning up to the fact that this isn't being DONE to me, that I am an active participant with a voice, feelings and a right to be heard, I am seeing a pattern of WAH trying to control me with his cake eating. It worked for a while. Now I'm wiser.
He invites me out under the guise of seeing D. I accept because I want to see D. I look past some of the awkwardness for D's sake but the reality is, when i'm with the two of them she's either reading or playing the ipad. It's not that she's not happy to see me but she's doing her own thing and I can rest assured that she's not DYING from missing me so much. And if she were, she could call me anytime. Anytime. She knows that.
Today is MLK day. D is off but I am not. WAH signed D up for a day of gymnastic camp with some of her friends. I heard this and said "she'll need a leotard, I can bring one to starbucks if you like". I' m a very nice person, aren't I?
I arrive at Starbucks this morning. D is sitting at a table playing the ipad, WAH is in line ordering. I sit down, hug D, ask if she's excited about gym camp. WAH comes over, we exchange clipped hellos and he sits down. Here's the convo:
Me: I brought a leotard and sweats for her. I also included her piano book because she hasn't practiced all weekend and her class is tomorrow. She might need help with Moonlight Sonata... it's pretty complicated.
WAH: ugh, ok. [silence] Gym camp today is from 9 - 3 but I guess I'm supposed to bring a lunch for her.
Me: Yeah. Probably.
WAH: Well I didn't know that so now I have to figure that out because I don't have lunch stuff at home.
Me: Oh. [silence] So, I get off work at 3 but I have a thing from 4-5 and then I was hoping to hit yoga from 5:30 to 7 so I can meet you to pick up D7 around 7:30. Is that good for you?
WAH: Wait. Meet us? So you specifically don't want us at the house?
Me: Right. There's no reason to be at the house since I'm not there.
WAH: Well I thought she could practice piano at the house because there's no other place except my parents house [his parents house is 15 houses away from me] but I guess that can be arranged.
Me: Great! Ok then. Have a great day at camp today, D7! I'll see you tonight and you can tell me all about it!
WAH: Oh and does she really need a leotard? I mean, I was just going to send her like that [D7 is dressed in jeans and a t-shirt].
Me: Mmmm, Her friends will have leotards on and jeans are rather restrictive. All the other times she went to this day camp she wore a leotard. Do you have a pony tail holder? They'll require her hair to be back, too.
WAH: No. [sigh!!] I guess I have to go back to the apartment to make her a lunch and to get a pony tail holder. D7 told me she didn't want me to do her hair this morning, will they really not let her into the camp without her hair back?
Me: It has to be off her face, it's a requirement for entering the gym but you can talk to them about it.
WAH: What's the point of a day camp on a holiday if it requires this much work for the parents?!
Me: [shrug]
WAH: D7, stop playing with your yogurt and drink your orange juice. Eat the yogurt first because you can eat the banana bread in the car because we have to go back to the apartment.
Me: Alright, I'm off then.
D7: Momma, will you help me put on my leotard in the bathroom?
Me: Sure, babe. Let's go.
WAH: D7, don't put your clothes on the floor when you change, that's gross. And don't walk on the floor barefoot, that's disgusting. Wait. YOu know what? You need to finish your breakfast before you change. Maybe you can just change at the gym because we have to stop back off at the apartment and you're just going to throw your clothes all over the floor and that's just disgusting so finish your yogurt so we can go.
Me: Alright. I'm off then. See you tonight, D7. Be a big listener today, ok?
Part of me couldn't help but chuckle at him struggling with the "work" involved in taking D to gym camp for the day but his face when I said they couldn't be in the house unless i was there...
... I put that boundary down a while ago and yet we STILl touch on it every time I see him. I know he thinks I'm trying to teach him a lesson and he fights it HARD. He doesn't like being told what to do and me placing that boundary, to him, is me telling him what he can and cannot do. It doesn't go over well.
I made plans to visit a friend in San Diego over Valentine's Day weekend. It's a small GAL activity that gets me out of town and hanging out with a friend. Something I really need. I need to do more of that kind of thing.
Other GAL activities really just keep me at home. I'm considering getting Rosetta Stone to learn French. A solo activity. Deepen my meditation practice. Another solo activity (though I've looked for group meditation groups, they are SUPER pricey). I don't know... I'm not an introvert but I seem to be doing more introverted things.
S, Im going to be really tough here because it's important.
HE dictated when and how he would move out. HE dictated what furniture he would take. HE dictated how and when we would tell D. When separation is a one sided decision, many of these "dictations" make sense.
Nope, they did not make sense. You could have told him when you needed him out. You could have had an opinion about what furniture was ok and what was not. You werent ready then, but, you could have had control there, you just chose not to exercise it. You allowed him to have it. Its done now, I just want you to see your mindset.
I heard this and said "she'll need a leotard, I can bring one to starbucks if you like". I' m a very nice person, aren't I?
You bailed him out. I know you did this for your daughter, but, she is with her daddy and he needs to figure it out. Not to punish him, just to allow him to live his choices.
Me: I brought a leotard and sweats for her. I also included her piano book because she hasn't practiced all weekend and her class is tomorrow. She might need help with Moonlight Sonata... it's pretty complicated.
He should be asking you what she needs to get done. She is also getting old enough to know that, too. Not your job to inform him of what HIS daughter needs. It's his job when he has her.
So, you dropped off the leotard and should have been on your way...instead you got this:
WAH: Well I didn't know that so now I have to figure that out because I don't have lunch stuff at home.
Yea, well, figure it out bucko.
Me: Oh. [silence] So, I get off work at 3 but I have a thing from 4-5 and then I was hoping to hit yoga from 5:30 to 7 so I can meet you to pick up D7 around 7:30. Is that good for you?
Ok, why all of that? Just, I can pick her up at 7:30. If he has her and hasnt told you of any plans he has, then....
WAH: Well I thought she could practice piano at the house because there's no other place except my parents house [his parents house is 15 houses away from me] but I guess that can be arranged.
Me: Great! Ok then. Have a great day at camp today, D7! I'll see you tonight and you can tell me all about it!
Perfect! ^^^^
WAH: Oh and does she really need a leotard? I mean, I was just going to send her like that [D7 is dressed in jeans and a t-shirt].
Me: Mmmm, Her friends will have leotards on and jeans are rather restrictive. All the other times she went to this day camp she wore a leotard. Do you have a pony tail holder? They'll require her hair to be back, too.
Your answer should have been a simple, yes, she does.
... I put that boundary down a while ago and yet we STILl touch on it every time I see him. I know he thinks I'm trying to teach him a lesson and he fights it HARD. He doesn't like being told what to do and me placing that boundary, to him, is me telling him what he can and cannot do. It doesn't go over well.
Too bad, so sad for him. As long as that boundary is truly for you, S.
You really need to let him figure this out with your d, S. It's important for everyone involved. You cant keep fixing it. It's not your job.
Other GAL activities really just keep me at home. I'm considering getting Rosetta Stone to learn French. A solo activity. Deepen my meditation practice. Another solo activity (though I've looked for group meditation groups, they are SUPER pricey). I don't know... I'm not an introvert but I seem to be doing more introverted things.
You have to think outside the box some. Check out the library, meet ups, parks department. Most free or very inexpensive.
I'm glad you're being really tough because it's empowering me to take what's mine, and some of it really IS mine, but to leave him his.
In reality, he would NEVER ask me what she needs to get done. He doesn't give a flying eff if she does her piano homework but I'm the one who sees the piano teacher on Tuesdays. We have this issue with her meds on Thursday morning. He forgets, I meet at Starbucks with them. Why? Because the alternative (d skipping a day) is not an option.
You're right though, and I want you to call me out on it if you see it continue. I can't keep picking up his mess.
Ss, I've been trying to let me first response happen in my head, then try to give the shortest response to WAW that I can (without being rudely short). I don't always succeed, but it has helped me stop some of the cycle of enabling cake eating or letting WAW avoid living with the consequences of her decisions.
How is your day otherwise?
Great suggestion. I definitely respond a lot in my head but in getting much better about that NOT being the response that comes out of my mouth.
How's my day? Pretty good, thanks.
Question for the group:
D has a group of friends and all the parents from that group hang out. This is part of why I see WAH so freaking much. This weekend is my weekend with D and we've been invited by a mom from this group to a Jewish Earth Day celebration. I won't invite WAH but he could invite himself or ask me about it.
I'd rather he not come. Really. Is this a battle I fight or ? Thoughts or feelings on that??
How would he find out about it? I would just go ahead and go, don't tell WAH about it. But also know that the other mom has a right to invite him, and he has a right to attend at that point. Even if he just finds out about it in passing, I think it would not work out for you to somehow try to fight his attendance. Just accept it as a possibility but don't go out of your way to notify him of it.
I see the problem with the group, though. It's not like you can just pick a new group of friends so easily. You have D7 most of the time, and that is where her friends are. But are there any efforts you could make to meet new, unrelated adult friends? What about your friends you felt like deserted you a few months ago? What's your R with them been like lately?
I agree with card. Don't offer the info. If he finds out on his own and decides to come then so be it.
I understand the natural draw to help him when it comes to your D. It is hard to break a habit that you probably had during your M. It doesn't really help though because it prevents H from having to suffer the consequences of his choices. He is a big boy and if he has to go back and forth ten times because he forgot something that's what he has to do. He will also appreciate more what you did do in the home and with D. when he actually has to fend for himself.
There is a difference between being pleasant and being a doormat, I know because I have been there. Being too "nice". Be a friend to yourself first. You are teaching D what a strong woman is.
Card, Karma, HI!
WAH texts with the dads of the group so he'd likely find out about the event through them. That's how he finds out about all the other stuff.
In this case, it seems most of the other dads have opted not to attend so its likely WAH won't attend.
Card, yes, I am working on making other friends for me and for D7. Luckily her involvement in karate four times a week means that I hang out a lot at the dojo so we are building some relationships there and have had a few playdates.
The friends whom I felt abandoned me are semi-MIA but check in on occasion. I never realized how many fair weather friends I have. I'm at a different place now and I'm learning to rely more on myself for support. It's still sad though.
I will not make an effort to make WAH part of our plans this weekend. If he asks to hang out so he can see D7 because he misses her so much, I'm just going to say that it doesn't really work into our plans. It's not my intention to keep him from her, I just want to be away from him.
I am worried that will backfire somehow and he'll accuse me of not allowing him to see her or something equally ridiculous. He can get nasty when he doesn't get what he wants.
On a happier note, I'm hitting the hair salon today for a brighter / fresher look. It has been sunny and spring-like here and it has made me crave happier days. As we all know, it all starts with the hair.
I am worried that will backfire somehow and he'll accuse me of not allowing him to see her or something equally ridiculous. He can get nasty when he doesn't get what he wants.
I think you should be prepared for and look forward to something like that - it would be a perfect opportunity to practice your new skill of owning YOUR sh** and letting him own his. You are definitely not obligated to constantly hang out with a WAH anytime he feels like it. Think of it down the road...let's say 4 years from now, you're remarried. Would WAH be allowed to invite himself into everyone one of your family plans? Of course not! So why should he have that right now, just because you're not in a committed R? If he was committed to your M, it would be a different story, but he chose to leave, he's choosing to stay away, so he is choosing to potentially miss out on lots of moments with his D7. That's the reality of HIS decision.
I'm feeling upbeat and positive. Not necessarily about my sitch, because nothing has changed, that is, except my outlook.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually slowly getting over WAH. I mean, all this reliance on myself emotionally and physically has empowered me obviously. I'm starting to see that if we got back together it'd just be gravy to my life ... so long as I can keep from being enmeshed excessively again. I don't know.
I never want to go back to the person I used to be. I've changed a lot. I'm much more positive, less reactive, lighter, more patient, more fun-loving, more present and less scatter-brained and lost. I'm not done, obviously, but I like me. I like the direction I'm going, the things I'm discovering, the permission I give myself to make mistakes but still holding myself accountable to be the best me I can.
Talked to WAH on the phone last night about an appointment he took D7 to. He was worried and concerned and we talked about it. I was very level-headed, calm and grounded. I did not belittle, emasculate or talk over him. I listened, validated, encouraged and supported. I also kept it short and sweet. He said "you're right" TWICE. I don't think I've heard that from him in 10 years. Not that it matters, I don't care if I'm right but it is a sure sign of him allowing himself to be vulnerable because it is a fact that he is NEVER wrong.
It's not about right or wrong, at least not to me but he sees a lot of our situation that way. I see that as a bigger issue... an inability to feel safe enough to be ok with being wrong or telling the other person he/she is right without it taking a piece of your soul away.
HE said it and I didn't hear his soul crumble to the ground and break into a million pieces.
Anyway, it was a good talk.
He is an absolute fool.
S, Im smiling over here. You sound really good. We should never start working on ourselves...always a work in progress. But you sure are walking in the right direction for you. Im so glad.
Not being able to be wrong..his issue. I lived with one of those a long time. It's really sad, I think.
You just keep going, S. The world awaits...
Ithanks uR!!
I'm resisting my urge to see physical progress and just be. Be where I am, like it, enjoy it and let the good feelings blossom. I'm looking forward to a GREAT weekend with D. Seeing a movie, dining out with friends, a birthday party, karate, chemistry experiments, a beach visit... Lots of good stuff.
I'm feeling a little left out of WAH's trips to see comedians or concerts without me. It hurts and makes me wonder who he's taking because I know he's not going alone. I'm not going there. Doesn't get me anywhere. Blah.
We got our appointment for D7's testing... March 17th. Whew, feels like a long way away but that's what it is... Just really interested in the process and finding out how best to help her educationally and behaviorally. We'll see.
One day at a time... And this one is pretty good.
Atta girl Ss!
I got D6 a set of chemistry experiments for Christmas. That might have been a tactical error on my part :-). Now I am constantly being begged to blow up balloons with baking soda and vinegar - boil eggs for air pressure experiments etc. Chemistry experiments are.....messy.
Good for you, SS! You're an example of where I want to be soon! I'm thinking about karate for S4.
Enjoy going and getting a fresh new look! Jealous that it's spring-like out there!
Oh man. A little challenge... But I'm in the middle of handling it well. Lol. Like that?
If D is with me, H calls to chat with her before bed. When she is with him, I call. She is with me more and has lately said she feels like she doesn't get to see daddy much.
On weekends he has her, I stop by karate on Saturdays just to give a quick hug to her. He has started to do the same and did today. Whatevs.
He called tonight at 7:30 and he chatted with D until 8:15. I'll admit, I felt jealous. I'm lucky if I get a semi focused conversation for 8 minutes with her when I call. I know she misses him. He promised to call tomorrow morning, too.
At first I was mad at him. For not being aware that he's holding up her bedtime, for punching holes in my time with her. I wanted to stomp my foot and say, "but it's MY weekend and YOU DID THIS SEPARATION THING so get used to not seeing your kid all the time like I have to!!!!"
Luckily, I said no such childish thing. In fact, I said nothing.
I tucked D into bed and told her I know she really missed daddy. I also said that I'd love to chat with her like that on the phone . She just said, "ok!"
Huh.
And, as I sit with my jealousy I find myself feeling compassion for WAH. Yes, I want him to live his choices but I do know what it feels like to not be with D all the time. It hurts. My heart aches when she's not around. I imagine he feels the same way. I want tonight's long conversation to have made him feel good.
Not good about being a WAH of course but good in general.
I'm letting it sit for a bit longer and I know my jealousy will dissipate. I'm secure in knowing D loves me, that her talking to him forever isn't about me.
I definitely notice my urge to control. To control the length of their conversation. To control him punching holes in MY WEEKEND. To control his neediness for D to make him feel secure that he's doing right by her. To just control.
I don't even feel ashamed at admitting all my controlling urges because I'm now AWARE of them and what they mean. How I control to protect my heart.
H isn't trying to take her from me. He just likes chatting with her and she loves chatting with him.
That's a great thing, even if it gives me twinges of jealousy.
And I don't need to punish him to feel better. I am secure in my relationship with D. Yes, mine is more taken for granted by her because she's with me more and I handle more of the day-to-day stuff... It's ok.
It's ok.
I'm ok. It's not about me.
On a completely separate note, I'd love your opinion on something:
D has been tardy to school 6 times since school started. None of those are because of me. Is that something you'd bring up to WAH? I know that at least two of those times were because he wanted to let her sleep in. Um, that's not ok, it's a school day.
Thoughts?
SS, does the school have an official tardy policy. Such as, if you are tardy X number of times then you have detention, or your grade is affected, or something like that? If so, H needs to be made aware. If not, then maybe you could say, her teacher has said that she's out of sorts on the days she's late because she's rushed to put her stuff away, etc. I'd try to frame it from a school perspective so as not to make it look like you are the one trying to control H. And if all that fails, I'd probably let it go for now. D will soon be old enough to be upset with dad herself about being late.