Hello! I am a 30 year old female, been married 3 years, with a daughter that is under a year old. Almost 2 weeks ago my husband told me he wants to get a divorce. We have been through tough time before, so while I was upset I still had hope that he was just lashing out. Two weeks later, his resolve seems to be growing. He has made a significant investment in a new living arrangement, and I am terrified that this is really it. He was agreed to go with me to a retreat, and everything I read about it seems very promising. He says he loves me, but that our marriage has made his miserable. I am reading DB, but am scared to just let him "go" and stop pursuing before we go to the retreat. So far, my response to him has been basically denial, I keep telling him that I am "not giving up" and he basically looks at me like I am crazy. Does any one have any advice as to what I should be doing during this time before the retreat? I PRAY PRAY PRAY that the retreat will soften his heart, and I am clinging to hope. I am just glad he agreed to go with me, even though he really doesn't want to go. I think he is just going to say he tried. I am so scared of losing the most important person in my life!
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank you. Now that I am realizing my husbands resolve, I have agreed to a separation in lieu of a straight up right away divorce. I just don't know if I'm doing the right thing. I want so badly to keep him but maybe some time apart will help
Hi Mary,
I read your post in my thread. My first suggestion, is to relax and not put any pressure on him. He knows what you want.
If you are putting pressure on him, it comes across as being needy and clingy. It is unattractive. You want to be the opposite of that.
You mentioned that he agreed to attend a retreat with you. That is a significant positive. It will help you both dig deep. Let the program do what it is designed to do.
Can you fill us in a little about your story? How did things fall apart? What caused the demise of your M/R? It will help us, help you.
Have you read the Divorce Remedy?
The change begins with you.
Our story…as best I can summarize:
We dated 3 years, got married 6 months after our engagement, had our daughter at 2.5 years married. We have always had a volatile relationship, as we are both strong willed/aggressive people. I tend to instigate more upfront and cause our arguments, but then he has a very bad temper so he causes them to get out of hand. I am religious and come from a home where my two parents have shown that two imperfect people can make it work if you just stick with it. It isn’t always rainbows and butterflies but we had a stable home life. His parents fought all the time and he has almost zero good memories of when they were together. They divorced when he was about 11, and since then his father remarried and remains married to the same woman for about 15 years. His mother has remarried and divorced three times. I was always a goody goody, and responsible. He was a total rebel, dropped out of high school and joined the marines at 17. We met at work, right when I had finish college, and he was making his way into the professional world after leaving the marines.
Our issue has always been that he doesn’t believe I respect him coupled with his temper. Early on we had many fights about me talking negatively about him in public, and I fixed it. But he won’t let it go that I used to do that. He doesn’t think I make him a priority, and I haven’t, especially since our daughter was born since I also work full time. I always meant to focus more on him, but it was one of those, important but not urgent things. I am not outright rude to him, or malicious, but he just thinks I constantly disrespect him with the choices I make, how I spend my time on my phone and not listening to him. His opinion is that there is nothing left to fix, that we are beyond repair. He is so miserable that the only thing he can think about is getting away. My opinion is that this has come to a breaking point because he is stressed about money and work, and the responsibility of being a father to a young child has overwhelmed him. His own father hated being home, and I believe that he thinks he is not wired for this type of life. One of the things we have struggled with most recently is that I have been wanting to do what I think of as family oriented activities, like going to a friend’s child’s birthday party, and he wants to go hang out at a bar to watch football with a divorced male friend.
I love him and he says that he will always love me, but that he is depressed and miserable. He does struggle with depression, and in his own words, he can’t go a night without drinking.
I am absolutely not ready to walk away from my FAMILY, because of how we feel in this one moment. He claims he has felt this way for two years. I don’t buy it. Yes of course we have had bad times over the past two years, but there have been great moments as well. I think he is just trying to convince himself that he has “tried”.
I am in the process of reading DB, and also have DR. I have also read... which shook me to my core, because now I feel like if I was given the chance, I would approach my married life very differently.
Any and ALL advice would be welcome. And PRAYERS. Lots of them!
His perception is his reality. You need to change that.
You need to do a lot of validation while interacting with him. You seem to dismiss his feelings. Many times you will have a different perspective on certain things. It's completely fine to not always agree. It doesn't require an argument. There might not be a right or wrong. Simply different perspectives. That is the reality when you have two different individuals.
Read your last post, and count how many times you said, "but". Essentially anything before the word "but" doesn't matter. What follows are many excuses that make your "intent" inconsequential. I am not going to address anything about him, because you are the one here.
Own your part, and then make genuine changes that will affect the dynamics of your marriage.
If you don't make the change, who will? Make a list of things you want to change or improve and start there. Small attainable goals.
Wow, you just gave me such great advice. I love that first comment about his perception is his reality. That is right on! If he is miserable then he is miserable. It doesn't matter if I think things aren't that bad. I am working hard to change, especially while he is here in the house still. I am going to be persistent, even though he told me that nothing I say or do will convince him that any changes I make will be anything but temporary.
I have a question I could use some advice on. He absolutely hates our house (it was mine before we were married), and he says I need to sell it because he is moving out and he can't afford to support two households. He knows that I will have to move in with my parents. I just don't know what to do. I feel like if I move in with my parents, it will be really hard for us to reconcile, especially because my parents would be very upset about us separating. I can't afford to pay for the house myself but I could take out some money from my 401k to get my by for a few months. Any thoughts?? I asked him if he wanted me to get a realtor and he said no, but that he wanted us to "make a plan". But when we tried to talk about it we didn't really get anywhere.
Here is a link to a validation thread, that was created by Wonka. Exceptional information for you to reference.
Validation Cheat Sheet ~ Compliments of Wonka
Thank you! Good stuff on that thread. I really appreciate your responses.
I am going to be persistent, even though he told me that nothing I say or do will convince him that any changes I make will be anything but temporary.
Let's turn this into a positive. I am challenging you to prove him wrong. Actions speak louder than words. Don't try to convince him with words. Remember, he is looking at your sitch from an unhappy perspective.
What makes you attractive?
I found it helpful to journal goals and interactions. I'd even go as far as suggesting to write things down from the validation thread that I linked for you. It always helped me remember things when interacting with my W.
I have a question I could use some advice on. He absolutely hates our house (it was mine before we were married), and he says I need to sell it because he is moving out and he can't afford to support two households. He knows that I will have to move in with my parents. I just don't know what to do. I feel like if I move in with my parents, it will be really hard for us to reconcile, especially because my parents would be very upset about us separating. I can't afford to pay for the house myself but I could take out some money from my 401k to get my by for a few months. Any thoughts?? I asked him if he wanted me to get a realtor and he said no, but that he wanted us to "make a plan". But when we tried to talk about it we didn't really get anywhere.
I'd suggest not getting too far ahead of yourself. You probably feel like your world is swirling. Slow down and breath. You don't need to tackle the world all at once.
Don't push anything on the house yet. If he brings it up. Simply let him know that you are thinking about it. No more, no less. If he pushes the issue, again let him know that you are thinking about it. It is a big decision that you do not want to rush.
I hope you brought your patience with you, because this is a marathon, not a sprint. You don't want to rush it. Fast is slow, and slow is fast.
I don't want to rush it either, but he got really angry when I tried to slow play the whole house thing. He is very panicked about paying for his living arrangements along with mine at the same time. He thinks that by not doing anything about the house, I am trying to act like this isn't really happening. So I made an appointment with a realtor for the week after our retreat. I am hoping that the retreat will be a turning point for us. 10 days until then, and I plan to use those ten days to make as many changes as possible. I agree with your advice about writing down my goals. But I am finding it hard to not be pathetic/needy while trying to change my behavior since what needs to be changed is me being more attentive.
He will get angry. Ah well. Don't simply do things to please him. You need to be smart about making significant decisions.
As for the changes that you need to make, you can list them all. It is your journal. Scratch some out. Add new ones. It will change as you go. Obviously, you will need to address the changes that are independent of a relationship with your H, because that is within your control.
The retreat will guide you in making changes within your M/R.
How are you doing with the homework that Cadet gave you?
Hopefully you get off moderation soon.
As far as Cadet's advice to GAL, I am finding that hard to do, since we have a little one. After I get home from work, I can't do much besides take care of the LO and get to bed. But this weekend I have a party for my office, and my mother is going to watch my LO. Husband is not going to the party, and that will be very awkward, since it is our annual banquet and everyone is bringing their spouse. But oh well. I thought about not going but then I realized that wouldn't accomplish anything besides making me feel worse.
I hadn't really thought about what changes I need to make outside of my relationship, but now that I think about it, you are right, that is the only think I can control right now, and if become a better more attractive person, how can that not help?
But this weekend I have a party for my office, and my mother is going to watch my LO.
Get dolled up and go enjoy yourself. Life doesn't wait for anyone.
I hadn't really thought about what changes I need to make outside of my relationship, but now that I think about it, you are right, that is the only think I can control right now, and if become a better more attractive person, how can that not help?
Bingo!! Ultimately we are each responsible for our own happiness. Happy and confident are attractive.
Also, you can GAL with your daughter. Take her to a park(weather permitting) that you can walk/jog around a track with her in a stroller. Take her to age-appropriate classes to interact with other children. You will be able to interact with other parents. Take her to a scenic place that you can read to her(park/pond/stream). Make some great memories with her.
Thank you. I will be sure to keep you updated on how it is going. My goals: write out five concrete things I want to change, GAL with my daughter, BREATHE, be patient, and just make it to Friday the 16th.
Marylov,
LITB has given you some great feedback. Awesome, actually. I found your use of the word "but" extremely telling. In my experience, that usually means 2 things: 1) you have to be right; and 2) you have to have the last word. Could this be true for you?
What is something from DR that resonated with you?
I'm afraid I'll let LITB be the good cop - because I'm going to be the bad one. Please know it's not because I want to be unkind, but since I lived through this stuff myself, it's so much easier to see obvious things for what they are. BUT... please know that what I say does not mean that he doesn't have his own issues that should be addressed. It also doesn't mean that he's right and you're wrong. However, since he's the one who wants out and you're here, lucky you. You get our advice. And that means you're going to have to be the one who changes first and who changes the most. Right now, the weakest link wields the power.
We have always had a volatile relationship, as we are both strong willed/aggressive people.
Why are you aggressive?
I tend to instigate more upfront and cause our arguments
There should be no BUT following this statement. I'm not someone with a bad temper. But this type of instigation would definitely make me someone with a bad temper. Why do you do this? What do you get out of these types of interactions?
Throw your family of origin (FOO) expectations out of the window. You are not in your parents' marriages or your in-laws'. Your problems are real, and they are yours to deal with.
Our issue has always been that he doesn’t believe I respect him
Why might he feel this way? Again, "coupled with his temper" is a copout. He sounds pissed and is reacting to feeling disrespected.
I am not outright rude to him, or malicious, but he just thinks I constantly disrespect him with the choices I make, how I spend my time on my phone and not listening to him.
Can you provide examples? How would you feel if you were in his shoes? Be specific.
One of the things we have struggled with most recently is that I have been wanting to do what I think of as family oriented activities, like going to a friend’s child’s birthday party, and he wants to go hang out at a bar to watch football with a divorced male friend.
Well, my girls are now almost 21 and 18. It's been awhile since I had an infant or toddler around. But I can't think of one single dad who would rather go to a kiddie birthday party instead of be with friends. That being said, do either of you schedule time to be alone, time to be a couple and time to be a family? There has to be balance. They all need to be equal. If you want to scrapbook one night, there is no law that says he can't be the dad. Perspective, Mary. Expectations are a slippery slope, especially when they are hidden contracts.
He doesn’t think I make him a priority, and I haven’t, especially since our daughter was born since I also work full time.
Yes. Sigh. I remember this well. But again, this is something that balance takes care of. What are ways you can build balance in to YOUR life right now? That's part of what Cadet meant by GAL. I wish someone had encouraged me to be more balanced when my girls were babies. It would have been very helpful to have that as a goal.
One last thing. Be careful about the retreat. It may make him resentful. It may be the banner he waves to tell you and the world "I tried but nothing worked". So stop trying to control him and use this time wisely to address some of these behaviors you mentioned. They are all resentment builders.
Resentment occurs when we expect someone else to meet our needs when we are not doing the work ourselves.
Lather, rinse, repeat. Until the issues that cause this resentment are fixed, there will continue to be difficult communications. As LITB said, regardless of what you say, these are his perceptions. Which make it his truth. The opposite of love is not hate, Mary. It's indifference.
So if you could please share some of these dynamics, it would be helpful. I've asked a few ladies here to come on over as well to weigh in. They're introspective moms as well.
Good luck-
Betsey
Hi Marylo,
It sounds like you and H have been going in circles with each other. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Sometimes we have to agree to disagree. As two seperate people you both bring your own perceptions, beliefs and ideas to the relationship.
It also sounds like you both are reactive with each other. Learning anger management could be a helpful goal for you. You can't change H's behavior but you can change yours. If you change how you react and respond you will be teaching your child how to have a healthy relationship. We all tend to repeat the things we saw growing up. Break that pattern.
I agree with the other posters. It is imperative that you give your H. Space. That is respecting him and what he needs right now. If you remind yourself that the more you push the further he will move back it will help keep you in check.
There are some good threads on here about the Pursuit and distancer dance. I'm not great with technology maybe someme with more tech skill can post them here for you.
It is easy to get caught up with kids and only see yourself as a Mother. It's important not to lose the woman in you.
Keep busy. Have a PMA. If you GAL and have a PMA that will be what gets H's attention. Fake it until you make it act "as if"
If H is determined to seperate do look out for yourself. Find out what your rights are. Don't worry about upsetting H. You may be able to stay in the home. If he wants to leave and has to struggle that's the consequences of a choice he made.
Hi Mary,
Sorry you find yourself here, but welcome. You have been getting some good advice, and here is a bit more.
Go back through these posts, and actually take the time to answer the questions that were asked of you. You don't necessarily have to post the answers here, but make sure you understand what's going on in your own head. Do you always need to be right? Do you put being right above the relationship? Do you in fact disrespect him by your choices? Why do you do that? The sooner you figure this stuff out for yourself, the faster you can get to the person you want to be.
Now go back and read the parts where it says stop chasing your H and focus on getting a life for yourself. I know it's hard with a little one, I totally get that. Use your mom as a babysitter when she's willing, and do things that you can take LO along with.
Finally, let me share with you what gave me the most heartburn after BD. Fear. I was afraid of everything. I was afraid of being alone, I was afraid of being a single parent, I was afraid of a financial crisis, of having to move out of my house, of friends judging me, of social stigma. It was overwhelming. But when I looked at each one of those, addressed it individually, most of those monsters under the bed turned out to be dust bunnies.
Mary, you can do this, you will be OK. Someone wrote that to me on my first post here, and I didn't really believe her. But you know what, I am OK. You will be too. Keep posting.
Thank you all for the tough love. It sure is hard to take a hard look at yourself and think about all that you have done wrong. You all brought up a lot of questions but I think the most important one for me to answer here is to provide examples that will show how I have disrespected my husband, which is the main cause of our trouble. Here are the examples of what he needs and that I don't give him:
He likes to lay close in spooning position and I dont let him spoon me
I don't keep my car clean
I give him short notice when I have to work late
I encouraged him to play more golf, and then complained when he did
I complain about how he spends time away from home
I interrupt him
I get on facebook in the bed when he wants to talk
I question him in front of others
In general, I try to one up him and be the alpha. I am a "leader" if you will, and try to lead our family, even though I expect him to.
Hi, Marylov, I'm one of the ladies Betsey asked to check in with you.
My first impression is, listen to every single thing LITB and Betsey said to you, and don't think any other thoughts relating to your sitch until you have answered their questions fully, honestly, and without any "buts". Own your stuff.
The second thing is, I'm going to track down some links and quotes for you. One is the pursuit & distancer thread Karma mentioned. Definitely drop your pursuit. Use the validation link every time your H speaks to you. Every time.
I have one more question: why did you instigate arguments? What sorts of things did you complain about? Were THOSE things really so important or was there something else going on that you masked with the actual fight? I ask not because either of you was right or wrong, but to understand what was going between you.
I'll be back.
Mary,
He likes to lay close in spooning position and I dont let him spoon me
Why? I understand not wanting to do it all night - I am someone who needs space in bed. But I would certainly want to give my H some physical affection without sex that allowed him to feel close to me and that I loved him. My XH is a cuddler. I get this. So you have to compromise.I don't keep my car clean
Umm, okay. I know people who feel that when you don't keep things clean and tidy, it means you're not grateful for the asset. But I'm not going to put any weight on this one at all.I give him short notice when I have to work late
Pretty damn inconsiderate, especially if you expect him to do this. I'm starting to get this. You have an infant. How do you expect to parent together with this dynamic?I encouraged him to play more golf, and then complained when he did
Passive aggressive. Hidden contract. Confusing and disrespectful and insincere.I complain about how he spends time away from home
Sounds like you act like your needs are the only ones that matter?I interrupt him
Irritating. Condescending. Gives people the feeling they don't matter.I get on facebook in the bed when he wants to talk
Wow. So basically you're telling him that computer friends mean more than your H. Tell me why you're upset that he's called it quits?I question him in front of others
Cheapens his value and probably makes him wonder why you want him as a husband. In general, I try to one up him and be the alpha. I am a "leader" if you will, and try to lead our family, even though I expect him to.
Mary, this sounds like you have some serious issues that need to be addressed. And now. Before you can consider reconciling, we probably need to understand what underlying issues and fears you have that would make you think that anyone would want to be married to someone who acted this way?
I'm not saying these things to wield a 2x4, but to make it clear that I wouldn't want to be married to someone (or even in a friendship with someone) who did these things to me. I wouldn't even accept these behaviors from my kids. They are all things I did when I was a nasty 15 year old to my mom, and that my now 20 year old did when she was 17. The only reason my mom put up with me (and I put up with my D20) is because I was her daughter and she knew that I'd outgrow this sullen, petulant person and morph into a more reasonable person. And you have an infant. Do you really think this is acceptable?
So please elaborate on these things because they are really telling. How would your friends describe you? And how would you like for all of them to describe you?
Betsey
Thanks for the feedback. You are saying all the right things, things I really need to hear. Basically it comes down to the fact that I have put myself first, and him second. His needs came second to my preferences, and you are absolutely right, that is unacceptable.
I promise that I have done A LOT of reflecting on what changes I need to make.
What I really need from this group is advice on how to implement that changes our marriage needs, which is to put his needs FIRST, to listen to him and be the wife he needs…while detaching? While GAL? How can I do both? I know that all I can change is myself, but how can I be less selfish, while focusing on myself? I want so badly to consider him first in all things, but that is exactly what the book says not to do?
I'm just popping in to say (and I read your thread a day or so ago and saw you were getting great support from LITB) answer all the questions the people posting to you are asking.
Dig deep.
Let go.
You've got great support here. I have nothing more to add.
Betsey is bringing it, and I agree with her wholeheartedly.
She is someone that I have a great deal of respect for, as I read many of her post in the midst of my madness, and she brought her crew. You are very fortunate.
Mary, you have identified some SIGNIFICANT issues that you need to address. These will come up next weekend in your retreat. Another thing to be thankful for.
Have you been interacting with your H? How are things going?
Also......
So please elaborate on these things because they are really telling. How would your friends describe you? And how would you like for all of them to describe you?
I have been interacting with him some, he is still in our house and in our room. I have really tried to hold back, and just be kind and respectful without pushing it. I have stopped telling him I love him and have tried to give him some space. We are interacting basically how you would with a neighbor you don’t very well. I’ll be home around 7, okay, have a good day, etc.
My friends would describe me as opinionated, loyal, honest, smart and responsible. I have several life-long friends, I make an effort to keep people in my life and to be there for them. I think people know they can count on me to do what I say I will do, and to show up when it counts. I wish I could say they would describe me as warm, but I know I come across as judgmental. I am moody and when someone mentioned the word sullen, that can definitely be me!
I am not a nightmare, even though I know I am describing myself as such. I am actually well liked believe it or not. But the thing is that with my family, and unfortunately my husband, I take for them for granted and forget to be CONSIDERATE. I show more kindness to strangers than the people I love the most.
Thank you for your reminder about the opportunity I have at the retreat LITB. Like I have said before, I am deeply sorry for my past mistakes and am hoping the retreat will provide the lifeline needed for me to have the opportunity to CHANGE.
Mary,
What I really need from this group is advice on how to implement that changes our marriage needs, which is to put his needs FIRST, to listen to him and be the wife he needs…while detaching? While GAL? How can I do both? I know that all I can change is myself, but how can I be less selfish, while focusing on myself? I want so badly to consider him first in all things, but that is exactly what the book says not to do?
I think you already have these answers. Print this thread out and answer all the questions honestly. THIS is what will give you a game plan.
Since you've behaved in a manner most of us here haven't--by this, I mean that many of us took on the mom role to the detriment of losing our individuality--your list will probably be a lot more of the 180 variety than the rest of us. For you, I think GAL will have to be for the purpose of keeping a good attitude and to use your time to do things that are joyful and reinforce your efforts. I would probably avoid activities that are what MWD calls "more of the same". In other words, behaviors that reinforce his perception that it's all about you.
So please answer the questions. I think the answers lie right there. Then you'll know where you need to focus.
The book gives general ideas of what not to do. But the basic premise of DR is to do more of what works and less of what doesn't. Experiment. Pursuit usually means a fear-based behavior, which is why it should be avoided. Detachment means acting in a manner that says to others, "I care. But you are your own person and I am mine." It requires respect. And that is something you are going to have to work really hard at achieving.
I'd also like to thank LITB for the kind words. But you should also pay attention to him--he's reconciling and a guy. He can approach this from a guy's perspective. I'm sure he could be specific about what wouldn't work for him with his W as well. He might be too much of a good cop to do that, though.
Women are typically harder on other women. I only come across that way because I've traveled this road and know the ugly behaviors that got me on this board in the first place. I say these things to you because this is going to require commitment and a level of effort to change your behaviors, beliefs and fears. You're going to have to learn a different type of motivation. Consider it doubly worthwhile, because you have an infant that you want to teach. You're in an ideal place to become the person you want others to respect and admire. And that, my dear, is the very first step on this yellow brick road.
So... answer the questions, and then I want you to list 5 things you can do to combat the things that top your list of things that can make the biggest improvement for you AS A PERSON. If you treat others the way you treat him, this is a waste of time. It's going to have to be consistent across the board. Nobody wants to be friends with that blueberry girl in Willy Wonka.
One last thing that might drive this home. Your H is a marine. 'Til he dies. Marines know pecking order. They know how to respect authority. They are taught to be a team - in it to protect their brothers and willing to pay the ultimate sacrifice. You might do well to consider yourself a new recruit. Just a thought. Semper fi.
Ok, I've got to get back to work.
List. Answer questions. Identify 5 things to work on.
I'll be back.
Betsey
I really need to work, doggone it!
I have been interacting with him some, he is still in our house and in our room. I have really tried to hold back, and just be kind and respectful without pushing it. I have stopped telling him I love him and have tried to give him some space. We are interacting basically how you would with a neighbor you don’t very well. I’ll be home around 7, okay, have a good day, etc.
Good job.
am not a nightmare, even though I know I am describing myself as such. I am actually well liked believe it or not.
LOL, I'm sure you are! I think most of us here are. It's good to know that you know this.
But the thing is that with my family, and unfortunately my husband, I take for them for granted and forget to be CONSIDERATE. I show more kindness to strangers than the people I love the most.
Ahh. You've been stuck in that petulant teenager stage and never got out of it, Mary. Time to grow up! We were all this way at 16. You would do well to head over to Amazon and check out a book on empathy. I guess we can't make recommendations anymore. One pops up to the top of the pile and is a 5 star book. It is not my area of self help, so I have not read it.
I've found that people who are judgmental usually have overly critical voices in their head. What people on the outside who haven't gone to great self help lengths fail to realize is that the inner voice is way more hostile than the judging that appears on the outside. Does this describe you? I think if you can understand empathy and put it into practice, you'd find some of these thought patterns and behaviors dissipate. Unless you're a sociopath, you can learn empathy.
You may even have to ask yourself constantly, "if I were in their shoes, what would they like to hear from me?" Practice random acts of kindness. Keep a gratitude journal. It only takes a few minutes each day. Identify 3 things you are grateful for. And then thank God/the universe for your blessings. Learn how to have a grateful heart.
And when you get to the retreat, listen twice as much as you speak. No defending yourself or using the word but.
Ok, now I'm going. TTFN.
I'd also like to thank LITB for the kind words. But you should also pay attention to him--he's reconciling and a guy. He can approach this from a guy's perspective. I'm sure he could be specific about what wouldn't work for him with his W as well. He might be too much of a good cop to do that, though.
I got a chuckle out of this. Yeah, I wouldn't want to deal with any of the behavior that Mary described. It was a recipe for disaster.
My W was selfish in her ways too. I didn't see it as clearly before the BD, compared to when I reflected on our M/R. It certainly made me resent her, and I did consider leaving a couple of year prior to BD. That being said, she did me(us) a huge favor by putting us through our mess. It was a blessing in disguise. We both needed it.
Her changes took root way after mine. I found this board early in my sitch, and it helped me immensely.
For her, it wasn't until she hit rock bottom, early last year that she became motivated to change. The tables had turned, and I was essentially the WAS. I needed to see that her changes were genuine. So far, so good. (a condensed version)
Interesting how life humbles us, and it is those times that motivate us to change.
Mary, you are at that point now. You have a great opportunity in front of you and you are getting exceptional support. Live without regrets from this point. At the end of the day, you can become the person you want to be, in spite of the outcome of your sitch. (For the record, that will give you the best chance to save your marriage.)
You are all too kind. I really do appreciate the time you are taking to give me this support. Rock bottom is right! I will do some major reflecting and hope to report on those five things soon.
Just wondering how you get your H to agree to go to th retreat?
So far, so good. (a condensed version)
LITB, you're hilarious!
Hi Faith! To be honest, I am not quite sure. I never in a million years thought he would go, but he gave me a tiny window of "fine" and I signed us up right away. He has told me he doesn't want to go, and is not open to working on our marriage, but I have read a lot of things that basically say, just get him there and then trust the process. I have told him I need this, and he says "if it gives you closure, whatever". So it's not looking good but I am hopeful.
Okay, I have identified five things I am going to work on;
1) Support those that matter to me, and have their back. I realized I would question my husband when he would say things that embarrassed me in front of others, when I felt like other people could tell that he was exaggerating. How horrible! I should always have his back, no matter what. Same thing goes for my family and friends. I should never say anything negative about them to others.
2) Stop keeping score with everyone. I was acting resentful towards him bc I felt like I was doing more than him in terms of caring for our daughter. I shouldn't be keeping score, and if I need help I need to ask for help!
3) Hold my tongue, and LISTEN when others are talking. Speaks for itself!
4) Be grateful and gracious to my family and friends for being there for me, instead of taking them for granted
5) Cherish and be present in the moment, especially with my daughter instead of going through the motions or being disconnected, ie on my phone.
I think if I make these behavioral changes, with everyone I interact with, I will be a better friend, family member, mother...and hopefully if given the chance...wife!!!
Okay, I have identified five things I am going to work on;
1) Support those that matter to me, and have their back. I realized I would question my husband when he would say things that embarrassed me in front of others, when I felt like other people could tell that he was exaggerating. How horrible! I should always have his back, no matter what. Same thing goes for my family and friends. I should never say anything negative about them to others.
Hold up there, Mary. Why is it ok for your H to embarrass you in public? Did he really say hurtful things, or were you just overly sensitive?
I agree with not speaking negatively about H in public, but that doesn't rule out speaking with him in private and telling him you were embarrassed.
I like your other items.
Oh no I don't mean when he embarrassed me personally. I mean when he would say things that I found embarrassing because of the content, bc he has a tendandcy to exagerate and then would look at me and be like, "right?" And I wouldn't want to lie and agree so I would instead correct him. But now I realize that those exaggerations were harmless and was it really worth it for me to clarify? No.
Oh no I don't mean when he embarrassed me personally. I mean when he would say things that I found embarrassing because of the content, bc he has a tendandcy to exagerate and then would look at me and be like, "right?" And I wouldn't want to lie and agree so I would instead correct him. But now I realize that those exaggerations were harmless and was it really worth it for me to clarify? No.
You mean like a fish tale? OK, that makes sense. If they were truly harmless, then, no, don't correct him. Carry on.
My H corrects me all the time in public...and I hate it and I then am the one embarrassed If he would just go along as you say and not clarify, back me up by saying "yes", it would be fine.
So it was/is not really worth you to rewrite the conversation with your version/clarification
Hi friends! My H sent me a link to an article on marriage today, and said he found it on a website for the retreat we are going on. I tried to validate as much as possible during our convo about it.
I am taking this as a GOOD sign, after a couple of bad signs this weekend. Four more days until the retreat! I am really looking forward to spending time with him. I miss him so much, even though I still see him every day.
What was the article about?
It was about how marriages need kindness and generosity to survive. He said he was blown away by how much it hit home for us. The article was really good, and it really did talk about a lot of things that I messed up on. Particularly, it talks about neglecting small moments of emotional connection, which is something I am so guilty of.
That is heading in the right direction, but be sure to not take all of the blame. He has to be able to change as well. Any way you could paste it somewhere?
You should be able to find it by searching "lasting relationships kindness and generosity". Right now I am not worried about him changing. I truly believe that by changing my behavior, he will adjust his behavior bc I will no longer be making him miserable
Right now I am not worried about him changing. I truly believe that by changing my behavior, he will adjust his behavior bc I will no longer be making him miserable
Mary,
You are on the right path. The change begins with you, and you have already begun your journey. The retreat will be an eye opening experience for you and your husband. Remember to keep your expectations in check, and validate. You'll be fine.
Edit...the program is designed for you to validate.
Thanks LITB. I am having a hard time keeping my expectations in check. After what I thought was a promising sign yesterday, my H was straight up rude to me last night and this morning. And mentioned several things about the future...a future where we are not together. Feeling a little defeated but trying to remember this is a marathon not a sprint!
Mary,
It's always a wise course of action to manage expectations anywhere and anytime in this life. Expectations are hidden mine fields, so try to remember that they are typically ego-centric anyway.
So dial everything down about 10 decibels. Do twice as much listening as talking, and you might want to brush up on validation techniques that are in Wonka's thread here in Newcomers.
Good luck!
Betsey
Mary,
You are planted on the front seat of the emotional roller coaster. The roller coaster of fear. What do we fear? The unknown.
You don't know what the outcome of your sitch will be. You do know that you can use this as an opportunity to become who you want to become. Many times in life, we change, because something in life motivates us to change. Make the most of it.
Your emotions are being influenced by the positive/negative interactions with your H. You see a glimmer of hope, and your emotions shoot up. You experience something negative, and it causes you to come crashing down. That is why it is important to detach. It goes hand in hand with keeping your expectations in check.
Would it be fair to say that you have an expectation about attending the Marriage Program this weekend? I'll say marriage program, because it isn't a retreat.
Yes, it is fair to say that I am hoping that he will decide he wants to at least try to work on our marriage. I am hoping he will decide to go to the follow up weekends. I also expect he will still want to separate, even though my fantasy is that he will change his mind, I am prepared that he won't change his mind about that part.
Mary,
This is where I have to come play some hard ball with you. I'm Peyton Manning and you're a high school defensive lineman. It's only because I have time and experience that I can stand here and say this to you. I say Peyton because it's obvious that he's successful but also makes mistakes and takes one for the team when it's not his failure alone. I think he's a great example of strength and leadership with humility. Not because I'm a Broncos fan. Or a Colts fan. (Which I am.)
You used the word
hoping twice in consecutive sentences. You're going to have to get that completely off the table. Like a coyote circling a defenseless shih tzu, you are inviting disaster. They can read easy prey a mile away. Your hope will be the blood that he can smell, and it will be a real hindrance in turning this ship around for good. My XH smelled hope better than I thought. And he used it against me. It became his #1 reason to be a dick, all under the umbrella of, "Your hope pisses me off, because I'm out of here and you have no right to be smug and hopeful that I won't do this." So don't let it have that power.
Instead, go into this weekend with an open mind. With the expectation that you are going to learn and be able to use what you learn to do greater good across the board. Use it to propel you toward achieving your goals. Your goals have got to be Mary centric, not H centric. Your happiness does not depend on him, Mary. That's an inside job all the way. So make your heart happier and just maybe you'll find out that he's only peeking out of the door instead of running out of it.
Make sense?
Betsey
I think you are right, my hope is inviting disaster. I can feel it, but it is so hard to control. Here's to having an open mind this weekend.
I wouldn't necessarily call it disaster. More of a slowing down the process. Expectations keep you planted on the front seat of the emotional roller coaster. Do a search on livestrong developing detachment.
From my experience of the program, many couples made it, but some didn't. No matter what happens this weekend, and throughout your sitch, you will grow if you put forth the effort.
LITB, did you go to all the post program sessions?
LITB, did you go to all the post program sessions?
Yes, with the exception of one, because of a scheduling conflict. They are equally as important as the weekend.
"I truly believe that by changing my behavior, he will adjust his behavior bc I will no longer be making him miserable"
I would be cautious about this. You said that he has a temper. People who have a tendency towards anger will ALWAYS blame someone for how they feel rather than learning that the problem could be themselves. Don't assume all blame. He has just as much to work on as you.
I agree that I shouldn't take all of the blame, but right now I would rather be married than right. 48 hrs until the program this weekend!
Mr Bond! You've been missed. Welcome back.
I am so nervous! Tomorrow evening the program starts. I am trying to go in with no expectations, and an open mind. It is hard to stay calm though, knowing I am about to go through a draining process. It is like the night before a big test, but you can't study!
You are going to do great. Believe it.
The experience is humbling.
Thank you! We are so close. I have a feeling I won't be getting much work done tomorrow.
Thanks labug! Glad to be back.
"but right now I would rather be married than right. "
This has nothing to do with it. No one said that you had to be "right". He has to understand where his anger comes from or else you will always be at the brunt of it. I understand what happened in the past and you've seemed to be trying to correct it. That's very commendable. But his anger is not a result of your actions. He has control over that.
I don't really know what to tell you. He has always been a hot head, but has made considerable improvement in controlling it in the almost 7 years we've been together. it doesn't usually come out of nowhere, but I do have to be careful in what I do and say as not to provoke him. If he's been drinking it can be especially bad. But again, it is not that he is always angry. But if I say or do something that pushes him over the edge...it can get out of hand. Never physical of course.
What Bond is telling you is true. It is part of the entire process as your situation evolves. As you work to become the person you want to be, you will understand what is and what isn't acceptable in a healthy relationship. Obviously he will need to address his anger.
Right now, you want things to work so badly, that you are willing to overlook some negatives in your husband. In time, the fog will begin to lift for both of you.
This weekend, you will learn how to communicate on a whole different level. Head up, shoulders back, and make eye contact.
I don't really know what to tell you. He has always been a hot head, but has made considerable improvement in controlling it in the almost 7 years we've been together. it doesn't usually come out of nowhere, but I do have to be careful in what I do and say as not to provoke him. If he's been drinking it can be especially bad. But again, it is not that he is always angry. But if I say or do something that pushes him over the edge...it can get out of hand. Never physical of course.
It's great that he's making considerable improvements controlling his anger. But there's a difference in between pushing buttons and provoking his temper and having to watch what you say because it might trigger him. I'm hoping it's the former, and not the later that you're referencing. Regardless of if you say or do something that pushes him over the edge, he has a CHOICE in how he chooses to respond. Anger, to the point of getting out of hand is unacceptable. He has to figure that out, because you should not have to worry about triggering his behavior.
This isn't something to sweep under the rug. It will be something that will need to be addressed and take a lot of hard work from both of you.
Marylov,
First off Good Luck this weekend.
You described your H as a hothead and if you watched what you did and don't provoke him he is fine. It gets worse when he drinks.
Honestly, you just described what my W told me after the BD. She said she told everybody what a great guy I was when I wasn't drinking but when I did drink it all went down hill.
I quit drinking not because I had to but because I wanted to because it gives me the best chance at R. I may drink again or I may not. It was a dynamic between my W and I that did so much harm to our M.
The way you talk about watching what you say and do so not to set your H off made me think about how my W must have felt being around me. This isn't the first time I realized it and I have forgiven myself for how I made my W feel but she hasn't forgiven me and I don't know if she ever will.
I am not suggesting that your H must quit drinking your post just put me in a reflective moment.
Again, Good Luck this weekend
nit84, I am sorry that your wife hasn't been able to forgive you. For me, holding onto to past hurts is unbearable for both parties. I think I may choose forgiveness more easily than others, but it is almost selfish because I just find it harms me more to hold on to anger. I prefer to move forward. I always think of that line in the Our Father, "forgive us our trespasses,: as we forgive those who trespass against us." Pretty powerful line, in my opinion.
Marylov,
I agree with you that holding on to anger hurts both parties. I, like you, choose forgiveness more easily also. This wasn't always the case and I am much better off now that I have learned how to forgive.
I also agree with the Our Father being very powerful
On my way now to the program. Feel like I am going to be sick
Breath!! You'll be fine. This isn't the end. It is the beginning. Wishing you the best.
Well I am home from the wkend. It was a powerful experience. Not a miracle but I do feel much closer to my H. I don't know if we are on the road to reconciliation, but I am grateful for the time we got to spend together.
Looking forward to hearing about it.
Well, the day of the program, my husband told he didn’t want to ride together. He said he didn’t want an awkward car ride before a weekend that was sure to be “miserable”. We agreed to meet in the lobby, and then I couldn’t find the hotel so I was late. So that gives you an idea of what kind of mood we were in going into it. I was so afraid he was going to leave at some point in the weekend. But he didn’t!
Anyways the first night went late, but that night after the session was over, we talked more about our relationship than we had in a very long time. He was honest with me, and there were tears from both of us. I went into Saturday hopeful (silly me!) that the day would be a big turning point for us.
Saturday we went through the sessions, and we even laughed quite a bit. But as we went through the sessions, it became apparent that while he was willing to do the writing exercises, and be honest, nothing was changing in terms of his desire to work on our marriage. At one point, after hearing talks about forgiveness being a choice, and how the past is passed…there is a chance to talk with each other about our willingness to change. His answer was that he was NOT willing to change, that he was tired and could not put any effort into our relationship. I would consider this the low point of the weekend. I felt CRUSHED. And then, after that, there was a chance for people to share how they were feeling at that point. People were sharing all these great, positive feelings, and all I could do was cry my eyes out. Thankfully, one of the presenting couples said that if we still felt negatively, that the next day we still had work that could help us, so that made me feel better. That night, we actually enjoyed spending some down time together watching a movie, and I found a way to go to sleep feeling somewhat peaceful.
Sunday there was an exercise that really gave us a chance to talk about some important topics. Again, my H did not say he was in any way committed to working on our relationship, but there was no talk of “this is it”, and definitely no talk from him about leaving or us getting a divorce. I felt closer to him than I have in a long time. I am so proud of him for really being a trooper. We stayed for the closing mass, even though we could have easily left like most of the couples. When it was time to make the donation at the end, and they told us the suggested amount, I suggested a much lower amount because I was afraid he would be mad about the high dollar amount, but HE was the one that suggested we pay the whole amount. It is anonymous, so he did it out of his own free will. Maybe he thought it was worth it?
We are supposed to go to post sessions for the next six Saturdays. They spoke about it a lot during the weekend, and he never told me that we are not going, but I have yet to ask him directly about it. I am nervous and don’t want to push it. But obviously they are important. I am going to give it a few days before I bring it up.
Like I said, we definitely didn’t have any sort of huge “miracle moment”, but I am very glad we went. It would have been more beneficial for people who were in the piecing stage, but for me, it was critical because I think it has stopped things from getting worse. My H told me last night that he is going to talk to an older friend on Tuesday about our problems. In my H’s words, “I know he went through a tough time before in his marriage…”. This friend has been married for I am guessing 15 years, and I am hoping that he will give my H some encouragement to work on our marriage. We shall see.
Thank you all for just “being there”. Knowing that others have felt the despair I feel…it makes it bearable.
I'm glad that things worked out for you. It must have been nerve wracking. The biggest issue I see is his unwillingness to change. HOWEVER, if he's willing to stick it out with you and you change the way you communicate with him, he could very well make the shift. Hope that works.
Thank you. Unfortunately I would definitely not say things have worked out. Maybe worked out as far as the retreat was not a disaster. Funny how that seems like a huge accomplishment. But it really was. Yes, right now all I can hope for is that he will stick it out, and then I just have to be patient. My changes will hopefully cause a shift in him. But one thing I did learn was that I can't try to change him. I have to accept him as he is.
This was a step in the right direction. Things aren't going to completely shift, over the course of one weekend. You will need to continue working on yourself, and remain consistent in your changes. The changes have to be genuine.
You are right, you can't change your H. You can affect change, if he wants to change.
Even though you didn't have that miracle moment, this weekend was a positive.
The couple that lead our program, attended it twice before they were able to work things out. They were nowhere near piecing when they attended the first time. Their situation was volatile That was in '88, and they are still together. They have been an inspiration for my W and I. Perhaps some of the presenters of your weekend were similar.
Yes the presenting couples were SO inspirational. One couple in particular had a lot of similarities to us, especially in regards to living a married singles lifestyle. What was really helpful was that the man was very much like my husband. A strong, businessman that I think my husband could really relate to. We found ourselves laughing a lot at his jokes and comments, because they really struck a cord. They were in their fifties, and said they had they weekend 20 years ago, which also inspired me, because they weren't much older than us when they went.
My H did not want to do the dialogue homework last night, which was a disappointment, but I did my part and left it for him to read (he didn't) and that is all I can control. Right now I am trying to detach from thinking about our relationship. I am going to make the changes I should have made long ago, and not pressure him about making any decisions. I think no decision is better than him going forward with his decision to leave?
Hi Mary,
Keep doing your dialogue. At the very least you will know that you did everything within your control. Who knows? Maybe he will join you, if you remain consistent.
I went to the last post session by myself, which was awkward. I felt better for going. There is something to be said about being surrounded by people that can relate to your pain. It is comforting. It didn't particularly help my situation, however it did help me.
Mary the weekend may not have turned things around but you at least have the satisfaction of some in depth conversation. H and I have had exactly one real conversation since BD and that was months ago. Everything else has been kids, house, and superficial stuff. It's not the stuff a M is built on that's for sure.
I am definitely thankful for the time we spent together on the weekend. I find myself smiling thinking about some of the funnier moments during the weekend.
Okay. So I have done the dialogue homework by myself, with no response or even acknowledgment. I am terrified of bringing up the post sessions in person. We received an email reminding us about the post sessions yesterday. I am thinking about forwarding the email to my H, with a message. I'd like your feedback on what I plan to send:
"I really appreciate the time and effort you put into the weekend. I was amazed at how calmly we were able to share feelings I think we both have wanted to share for a long time. As the presenters said, the weekend was just the beginning. I would love to attend the post sessions with you. I know it is an additional sacrifice, and I have already asked a lot of you, but I feel confident that the post sessions would help us improve our situation. Please think about it, I just need to let my mom know about babysitting by tomorrow afternoon."
Thoughts? I know this isn't in line with the DB methods of detaching. But the weekend was about reconnecting and rebuilding, not detaching.
Another option is me asking one of the presenting couples to reach out to him directly. I spoke with one of the wives yesterday and she offered to have her husband call him. I am not sure if that would backfire or be better coming from a 3rd party.
I think in this case, less is more.
"I really appreciate the time and effort you put into the weekend. I was amazed at how calmly we were able to share feelings I think we both have wanted to share for a long time. As the presenters said, the weekend was just the beginning. I would love to attend the post sessions with you. I know it is an additional sacrifice, and I have already asked a lot of you, but I feel confident that the post sessions would help us improve our situation. Please think about it, I would need to let my mom know about babysitting by tomorrow afternoon."
Thoughts? I know this isn't in line with the DB methods of detaching. But the weekend was about reconnecting and rebuilding, not detaching.
You can detach, while reconnecting and rebuilding.
Here is a link for your reference.
Developing Detachment
Thanks LITB! I like your edits. My dad always used to say, KISS. Keep it simple stupid. Less is more!
Sent the email. I feel strangely calm about whatever his response is. Is this what it feels like to realize I can't control his actions?
Thanks LITB! I like your edits. My dad always used to say, KISS. Keep it simple stupid. Less is more!
No problem. Your dad is a wise man.
Sent the email. I feel strangely calm about whatever his response is. Is this what it feels like to realize I can't control his actions?
Yes, that is part of detachment and having no expectations.
We didn't make it to the post session. On Friday my H got really sick and spent all of Saturday in bed. I am starting to question how people live in this state of limbo for months or years. It is very draining.
Do you believe that you have made enough changes for him to consider coming back?
Genuine, life-long changes?
Is being patient a 180 for you?
When something didn't go your way, would you do something to provoke a response? Even if the response was negative?
How would your M/R look different than it was before?
Ultimately you still need to do the work, regardless what takes place with your M/R.
That being said, limbo is no way to live. You just have to be ready to be divorced.
Yes I have made changes, and I think he is seeing them through my actions. I am being much more proactive in thinking about what he might like. For example, before, when he was sick I would ask him what he wanted for dinner and get frustrated when he would be short and just tell me “whatever”. This weekend, I went ahead and made some soup for him. Doesn’t sound like much, but he told me he appreciated me cooking.
Is this type of change life long? Only time will tell I guess.
But yes, patience is something I really struggle with.
That is a good 180. The interactions will be the most telling.
You've been in a volatile relationship for 6 years. You've only been making changes for a little over a month now. This is going to take time. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
You mentioned that you are religious. Are you familiar with James 1, Romans 5:1-5 and 1 Corinthians 13?
It will take time for him to trust your changes. He will be watching for the old you to resurface and may even try and trigger you to see your response.
For now focus on you and become the you you want to be in your marriage. Keep up the 180's and GaL. If you keep busy it helps deal with the limbo.
I was familiar with 1 Corinthians, but not the Romans passage. Thank you for sharing!
Can you tell me what you mean by "the interactions will be most telling"?
Karma, you are completely right. It will take time for him to trust that these changes are real. And I think he is testing me. It is hard not to get upset when he is rude to me. But I have to remember that he has been hurt and is trying to protect himself. Sometimes I feel pathetic though.
Can you tell me what you mean by "the interactions will be most telling"?
Of course. This sentence that you typed early in this thread, really struck a chord:
"We have always had a volatile relationship, as we are both strong willed/aggressive people."It tells me that there was a lot of resentment and anger in your M/R. Also, that both of you have the need to be "right". Please correct me if I am wrong.
When you change, and your interactions consistently come from a place of love, and not from a place of anger/resentment, inevitably the dynamics of your M/R will change. You have already mentioned that your H is noticing.
You are planting seeds. You have to be patient for your changes to take root with him.
Ahh. Thank you LITB. I like that analogy. Planting seeds!
And you are very right. We both like to be right. Here's praying he stays in our home long enough for our dynamics to be changed!
As an extension to my last post. Those changes will also take root with you. They will come to you naturally, because they are sincere.
Another thing you said, is that you both have to be right. Sometimes there is not a right or wrong. Simply different perspectives.
For example, let's say you were looking at the sky while wearing green glasses, and he was wearing red glasses. You can argue that the sky looks green, and he can argue that it looks red. You are both right, based on your perspective. Life can be like that. Our opinions can differ based on beliefs, experiences, upbringing, being a male, or female, so on and so forth.
It is a matter of respecting the other person's perspective, and even trying to understand why they see things a certain way.
Hi Mary,
Sorry I've been AWOL... I'm in the middle of some heavy personal commitments that have not only prevented me from posting, but working as well. I'm really playing catch up with everything today.
It is a matter of respecting the other person's perspective, and even trying to understand why they see things a certain way.
LITB got this one dead on. I'll add to that. Respect is genuine when we don't judge them for feeling differently than we do. If you're like pretty much everyone else I know who hasn't done this work for a long time, there are non verbal communications that counteract the words: eye rolls, sighing, shoulder shrugs, etc. Be very careful of those as well.
Now back to the retreat follow up exercises. I'm feeling pressure from you and I don't live with you. You seem to want to fast track this and move your M into a "successfully reconciled" category before you really even played the game. Even if he were to commit to staying home and working with you, you realize that your work has truly just begun? This is a very heavy question, and I think it deserves an honest reflection.
A true sacramental marriage requires compromise and a whole lot of work. You trust the outcome to God and work on the issues that you bring to any marital discord.
Your relationship volatility is going to take a really long time to work through. At the very minimum, you're going to have to do some heavy lifting. Some of it will fall squarely--and often unfairly--on your shoulders. Why? Because you're the one who is attached to the outcome right now. You're going to have to undo a long time of reactive behaviors.
While you say patience is not your strong suit, I would say you owe it to your little one to learn it. I mean really learn it. What have you got to lose? I'm not slamming you on this, Mary. I'm a typical Aries girl. Pretty sure the first adjective to somewhat accurately describe our nature is Impatient.. then Headstrong. And I am neither of those any more. If I can do this work (like many others here), so can you. Do you journal? If so, can you add what you are feeling when you do things? That way, you can learn your triggers and build in preventative buttons to keep you from engaging in those reactive behaviors that push people away.
People in weight watchers do this... the journals include space to add in what the general mood was when food was eaten. It's designed to catch people in patterns such as overeating due to boredom or fear. Once we are really in tune with ourselves, we can unlearn those behaviors.
For me personally? I invoked a 24 hour rule. If my XH said or did anything that typically brought out a reactive behavior in me, I journaled it and then made a promise to sit on it for 24 hours. At the end of 24 hours, I could make a decision to confront or walk way. 90% of the time, that 24 hours brought clarity and I had the time to realize that he hit a button for me and I was just doing what I did best: react. The other 10%? Well, it also gave me clarity. I prayed (and still pray) before I have to address tough topics with my friends and family. The emotion is typically dialed down considerably, and I can speak calmly and rationally. I have really good success with this method.
And BTW, I'm the owner of a company. I use these same techniques with my employees. I believe they respect me for these types of interactions. I avoid the phrase "you make me.." and keep things to "when you said that, I felt X". Even my bull headed, stubborn XH was able to listen. We had 14 years of interactions that were unfair, wrong and giving our power away. It took 2 years of consistent work for me to understand why and completely eliminate those behaviors from my diet. It also worked VERY well in my parenting bag of tricks. The icing on that cake? I got to teach my D20 some really mature strategies as well. She doesn't have to unlearn a lifetime of the craziness.
So... slow this train down, baby. If you want to fix the underlying issues, time is your friend. Use it to build in those strategies and work on them consistently. It won't be long before you can look yourself in the mirror and say, "I'm a patient person." Nobody is born patient, Mary. Patience is a virtue... and virtues are rewards that we earn. God won't give you patience. But He WILL give you situations where you can master it. Consider this one your first real test with a high stakes outcome.
One last thing on detaching. You are definitely not even close. Being fully detached means that you accept the outcome. Period. Yours are conditional. I can promise you that he knows this. He's testing you, for sure. When in doubt, give him the power to make the decisions that you fear the most. SHOW him that you respect him for that. Then you can say that you're getting detached. It's healthy. It doesn't mean you don't care. It just means that you have to let go and trust God. Otherwise, faith is lip service.
Does this make any sense?
Betsey
Betsey, thank you for taking the time to answer my post, even though you have a lot going on! I really do appreciate the perspective everyone on here is able to share.
I think your comment, "Even if he were to commit to staying home and working with you, you realize that your work has truly just begun?" has been on mind a lot lately. I am trying to prepare myself for this. I can't say I am there yet. I have accepted that 2015 is going to be a hellish year. But it is hard for me to really wrap my mind around it. But I do know that there is NO WAY this is going to be resolved quickly. I guess I am ready to do the work, but I am still struggling with the idea that I may not get the chance to do the work, that it may be too late. But I guess accepting that is part of the detachment process. I have a lot of things to work on!
One of the things we did a lot on the weekend part of the program was accept feeling as neither wrong or right. That was a big game changer for me. It is liberating to just accept feelings, and also put my feelings out there without feeling like I have to justify them. I think journaling would be really good for me, because I think writing things down helps you be more intentional. I have been really reactive in my life, just trying to stay afloat. I had been thinking about it, but your recommendation has pushed me to make it happen!
Oh and your comment, "Now back to the retreat follow up exercises. I'm feeling pressure from you and I don't live with you." made me laugh out loud! I guess I really need to cool it and just let whatever is going to happen with that, happen. He knows I want to go. No need for me to do anything else.
Mary,
I'm glad you took my commentary the way it was meant.
(I pray that I write words that help, not hurt.)
I guess I am ready to do the work, but I am still struggling with the idea that I may not get the chance to do the work, that it may be too late.
Here's where I get to say you're wrong.
In fact, I found I did my best work after the separation occurred. It gave me the time and space I needed to work on me. I figured I had a 50-50 shot at best anyway, so I did the work for myself. I was pretty sure my XH had some basis rooted in truth when he told me he hated me and was moving out. After the dust settled, I could devote my energy to changing how I felt. The only thing I knew is that I hadn't been happy in a really long time, and unlike my then H, I knew it was not his responsibility. It's really tough work, and the only way out is through. There are no shortcuts. So if you see one, understand the truth in advertising there. If there's a shortcut, it's just not going to work long term.
One of the things we did a lot on the weekend part of the program was accept feeling as neither wrong or right. That was a big game changer for me. It is liberating to just accept feelings, and also put my feelings out there without feeling like I have to justify them.
What a terrific exercise. It's really fun when you can catch yourself in the process. I discovered that a lot of my judging was knee jerk, and it was pretty much my mom's voice I heard. WTF? I now laugh at that voice and tell it, "Like you're the expert in that, right?"
I have been really reactive in my life, just trying to stay afloat.
Yep, that's a learned behavior I got from my family of origin as well. It's fine to operate that way when you're knee deep in a pile of poo poo and have to jump anywhere to get out of the miserable swamp. But the simple truth is that those incidents are few and far between. It's far more productive and reasonable to be responsive vs. reactive. I had to devote a lot of time in IC to this one myself. It was like teaching myself to become left handed... kind of painful and went against my core grain. I'm so happy I did it, though. I'm much happier for having done the work.
Surviving is fine - when you are facing life or death. But thriving is a far better goal when it's not one of those situations. So build your thrive plan. Hint: none of it should include other people. And that's how you focus on you and detach from outcomes.
Good luck!
Today has been one of those detaching fail days. I can't seem to stop crying. I am so sad and tired.
Mary,
It is good to cry. What you are going through is difficult. I am sure we all have cried.
Your thread has reached 100 posts, so it will be locked soon. Probably a good idea to start a new one, and link this one.
Was there another post session this weekend? What's going on in your sitch? The more you post, the more we can help.
Hope you had a better day.