I've read DB, have done two coaching sessions (w/Chuck) and have been reading the forum for a few weeks and am feeling like I should post. My W left two months ago after arguing for two months about the children. 2nd marriage for each of us and each of us brought two kids with us. Married since Dec. 2012. She said my anger drover her away. She has not responded to any texts, emails or phone calls. Chuck has me "going dark" as LRT, so I haven't sent anything in a week.
I have been working very hard on myself - therapy twice per week, church, renewed commitment to my 12-step program, reaching out to friends for help, etc. I miss my wife so much and am confused by her behavior and refusal to communicate.
I plan to do more DB phone coaching, but would love help from the community about dealing with a WAS who won't communicate or acknowledge my attempts.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
okjpc,
Some advice what worked for me:
-No R talks at all........these are going to have to wait (I always mess this up)
-Contact a Lawyer
-Send her something written about necessities that are needed for agreement: money, kids, property. If she still doesn't answer back, get something formal (separation agreement.) It won't feel that this make sense at first to do....see below
-Make sure she realizes that you are working on the business aspect only, stop contacting her about anything else
My story
My W and I have had almost zero communication since the beginning. I was really unsure why in the beginning and then I started to piece together that there was an OM. I had no clue until she left, but I believe that a lot of the no communication was guilt or fear of letting something slip. Also, I think she's been trying to convince herself I'm horrible and needs to pursue OM with everything (he hasn't left his R) She also cut off all communication with her friends/family (guilt/embarrassment, I guess)
She left and actually used friends as proxies for communicating and transfer of the kids for the first month. Also, wouldn't let me know where she lived. The second month was not much better, she wouldn't answer any of my calls, pretty much dropped the kids off at the house (her friends started to refuse to be proxies) and would leave right away.
She first reached out and communicated two months later when she informed me she bought a house and sent me a draft separation agreement. Luckily, I had found out about OM in the meantime and was holding the cards when she sent me the email. I confronted her on it, she back tracked for a couple days. We talked a lot those days, but then she shut down again. That was a 1.5 months ago. We set up a counselor (mediator) at that time and have been going each week, but that had been ineffective as she has not honored things that we discussed.
Anyway, after much thought and convincing from the board here, I had decided to become 'all business' for the most part. You need to wait until you detach enough or it will eat you up emotionally because it seems like you are doing things to push her away. If you read here, it actually seems to have the opposite effect.
So, dark again for the most part until just this week. She wanted to come to pick up her stuff at the house and said I'm not to be there. I said "no, I will be there." I added some stuff about how our property should be divided and if she didn't want to work through it with me, that this is the list of things that she provides any 'monetary value' to in a seperation. Basically, I would not be accountable for paying her half of what was remaining. We had some heated exchanges about that via email yesterday.
So prior to this, she's been doing pretty much whatever she has wanted with kids, finances, property, etc. Today, I put together a list of things prior to a separation agreement and gave it to the counselor. We had a very difficult, heated discussion about trust and how it affects the kids and my protection of them. A long story about that, but then after getting that out of the way, she was receptive to working and discussing the arrangements in the temporary agreement.
She may go dark again, I don't know, but this is my experience. Try to get the business stuff going as soon as possible, its counter-intuitive but needs to happen at some point anyway. It also starts to have our WAS begin to deal with the reality of their decisions. Its not an 'extended vacation' from you anymore.
Thanks, guys. I'm working on GAL. Some days are better/worse than others. I was really in a bad way today until I called a friend and got out of my head.
My WAW and I don't have kids in common. We were close to each other's children, but she broke off all contact with me, my kids and contact between her kids and me. The house is in my name - she left and stopped paying her portion of all bills, so I had to call the bank and begin the short-sale process. She left two months ago and within a week had hired a moving company to come and take all her stuff - said she doesn't want anything else that she didn't take. She cancelled all services that we were both on (car insurance, cell plan, etc) and I have initiated my own accounts. So I don't think we have any business in common right now.
So go see a Lawyer ASAP. They will give you a consultation for a reasonable price. Draft up a seperation agreement to protect your remaining stuff.
My W pulled her name off of most of our joint accounts for car insurance, cell phone, Amazon Prime =) etc. also.
You do have a bunch of stuff in common still that you are both liable for. Not sure in your state, but ANYTHING that you paid into during your marriage is both of yours. She's actually entitled to the portion of the equity in the house that was paid into while you were married, I know that stinks. If the value of her 'stuff' she took (assuming it was acquired when you were married) is more valuable than what she left, she owes you money. Also, 401K, stocks, employee retirement, life insurance, cars themselves all would need to be divided. Most people just take what they have themselves, but the difference in values affect the bottom line in a D.
Like I said, my wife went on the offensive and tried to separate as much stuff as possible and 'move on' as quick as she could...she bought a house within 6 weeks of leaving! However, as soon as I started to discuss ALL of the stuff that we needed to work out, she seems to have fallen back to reality some. You're a little different w/o kids, but I can see that it is just starting to hit my W that she can't get 'away' from me and start a new life from scratch in a blink of an eye.
Not to make you feel worse, but a friend at work did process her entire divorce from Afghanistan. She never went back to the house and moved to a different state when she got back.
Thanks, MCS. This may sound silly, but the main reason I haven't seen a lawyer yet is b/c the thought makes me feel like I'm giving in to the separation/divorce. But you make valid points - I'll call someone this week.
Has either one of you formally filed for divorce yet?
Yeah, the same thing with the lawyer happened to me to. I was lucky enough to see that my W went first by looking at our bank account statement, so it gave me the nudge I needed. I'll tell you, it was more comforting than I thought it would be. It's like putting tools in the tool box. May not need them now, but sometime you might.
In my state, we have to wait 1 year to file. I'm sure the W would have if she could at first. When she sent me the email about buying the house, she said she decided she wanted a D. She back pedaled a little after that and said it did just say a S, but her BFF made her change it to a D.
I'll tell you, pretty much everything that works here is exactly the opposite of what you think would work. I've been dreading talking about S arrangements with her and prolonging it as much as I could. Well, you can see what that got me, trying to catch up and get back on top of things. It stinks when you try to log into accounts to find them all changed, as you know. I've felt better than I have in weeks today because we actually had a conversation. Think of it as setting the baseline; you need to agree on something to get it established. You're at a disadvantage, so the best thing to do is to baseline with what the current reality is....your separated. At that point, you begin talking about things and that then gives you the opportunity to show her through your actions how you have changed. Without figuring out how to communicate first, it would never happen. The chips are against all of us, but there's a lot of saved M here to show that it can happen.
Thanks, guys. I'm working on GAL. Some days are better/worse than others. I was really in a bad way today until I called a friend and got out of my head.
My WAW and I don't have kids in common. We were close to each other's children, but she broke off all contact with me, my kids and contact between her kids and me. The house is in my name - she left and stopped paying her portion of all bills, so I had to call the bank and begin the short-sale process. She left two months ago and within a week had hired a moving company to come and take all her stuff - said she doesn't want anything else that she didn't take. She cancelled all services that we were both on (car insurance, cell plan, etc) and I have initiated my own accounts. So I don't think we have any business in common right now.
To be clear, were the kids close before and or during the marriage? Do you believe any of them miss the others? Was there a big blow up they all know about? (I mean this is pretty drastic without a big fight...)
What would SHE SAY were the issues? You mentioned your temper/anger. So, what was that like FOR HER?
May I assume you displayed the temper in front of her children? So they were, perhaps in her eyes, traumatized by your temper?
What was it like for YOU? Did you fear you were losing it?
Was your anger also a problem or issue in your first marriage? If so, can you see why your wife would fear that you are destined to always be a guy who "loses it"? IF so, she might think it's hopeless b/c "hey, he won't/can't change".
Also, what is it that you are NOW doing to address these issues? I mean in terms of actions, not words.
RE your 12 step program, did you relapse or just stop going to meetings? How are you doing with that now?
I don't know much about your situation. I can say a few things about why anger in a man can be so disturbing to a woman, however.
Obvoiusly you are physically bigger, and thus your posture and vocal tone will alarm us a lot faster than it would alarm you. But it does alarm and intimidate us and let's face it, most women want their man to be a protector, NOT someone we fear.
When a man frightens us and he's supposed to be our protector, it "betrays" a deep need within us.
I read a series of articles about "mate selection". I've come up with some thoughts for you to consider as they may assist in your situation.
One study asked what traits men/women MOST VALUED in their mates...
Men valued most "attraction" to their wives , AND “peace at home.”
Some anthropologists theorized that “trophy value” and sexual attraction, mostly meant finding a "superior" mate for purposes of bearing superior or healthier children, and the #2nd thing was "peace at home" which I -interpreted to mean, no nagging.
Women most valued in their h's, Fidelity, which is self explanatory I think. AND the thing they MOST valued was Security...
Security --- = Financial, Physical & Emotional. Meaning, women want to feel protected, and a man who is a good provider is also very attractive. That's especially so when there are children.
We need to know that there will be a roof over our baby's head and food on the table, AND that our h's are not gambling away the money, or spending it on OWs. We need to know that our men take care of their bodies in part to keep US safe, we need to know that our man will stop a bad guy (saber tooth tiger) from hurting us, and that helps us feel secure.
Now, on the security level, you have to wonder how safe your wife felt with you.
I assume you would go investigate the "weird scary noises" downstairs at night, but there are other ways for a woman to feel unprotected.
Like not standing up for her with her/your family, or neighbors or colleagues, that is a huge one, or being bad with money, (not that you are, it's just a comment) and or like being unhealthy with too much weight...
men who earn enough to put bread on the table AND a roof over our heads are considered "good providers" and there are women who will stay married, for that reason alone. Same goes for men who are "good fathers" b/c no woman is unmoved by the loving interaction of her child(ten) with their dad or stepdad. Being a good father figure to step children is a HUGE bonus! (Being a lousy one, sadly, is also HUGE...).
Taking care of your body means you value yourself (& her & the kids) enough so she won't be a widow early....
My "caveman" theory is that at some level we feel, deep down and maybe at a biological level, that if the saber toothed tiger comes, the woman protects the child and backs up her h, but HE fights the tiger if he is there. Helps her feel safe and provided for.
I think women DO want to be provided for and protected - and men Do want to be admired and seen as having a "hot" mate who is attractive and attracted to him....and that is part of why losing your temper is a BIG deal. It's one of the few things that some women feel a "one time slip up" can actually end a marriage.
A lot of my advice depends on what you mean when you say you have "anger issues."
It's pretty vague. If you are getting help for that, then perhaps someone who knows you both, can see that and relay it IF she won't contact you at all.
If you were violent, she may feel there's nothing to be said. Especially if she had that in her prior marriage or childhood.
I hope you'll keep on working this program b/c it CAN REALLY WORK.
25yearsmlc,
Thank you for your reply. The kids were actually all very close with each other. And I was particularly close to my stepson. His biological father had been absent most of his life and when his mom and I married, he asked me if he could call me “Dad” and later said on a number of occasions that I had become his “real dad”. (His father, by the way, reentered the picture at the same time my wife and I got remarried and caused a lot of friction.)
The SD was stand-offish with me, but we were starting to communicate more right before the separation. My wife told me on numerous occasions that I was a great father figure to them.
That said, I did indeed lose my temper in front of the family a few times. At the beginning of August, the SS and I had a pretty big blowup. I never laid a hand on any of the kids (or my wife), but I yelled a lot during this blowup. The SS had been really disrespectful towards his mom and me, telling us to “STFU”, etc. I lost my cool on one occasion and told him he was messing up, needed to get himself straight. Unfortunately, I yelled all this and used quite a bit of profanity.
The SS went to his biological father, who stirred up all sorts of trouble. The SS used this wedge to get all sorts of toys and favors (new Play Station, etc.). My wife and I fought about this issue for a few weeks before she left.
So I would say for the most part I have been a very good stepfather, but yes, I lost my temper on a number of occasions.
You ask what I have been doing to correct these behaviors in myself. I have been going to IC 2x/week for the past few months; working my 12 steps again with my sponsor; reaching out to more people for accountability in this area; increased my prayer and meditation; have read a few books and taken an online course about anger; have started going back to church and have begun a dialogue with the pastor about my anger.
I wrote my WAW a very heartfelt amends letter about a month ago. I do think I understand how I let her down and injured her. I wish there were a way to communicate with her directly and seek MC with her. She actually came to one session, told me and the counselor she loved me and saw me as her “soulmate”, but she also made it clear that she was angry with me. We had lunch that day and talked a bit. She had already left the house the week before that. The week after that session, she brought the moving van and I haven’t seen her since. That was two months ago.
25,
By the way, I appreciate your perspective and you being straightforward with me. I can readily admit that I have made quite a few mistakes in my marriage (and am happy to lay them bare on this forum). I would love to be able to make amends to her in person and that desire is what claws at my heart the most. As I mentioned above, I did mail her a heartfelt letter a few weeks ago, but got no reply. Part of me thinks I need to give it more time; part of me acknowledges that i have no control over her thoughts and actions; and part of me is in too much pain to see things very rationally. But the bottom line is that I feel deep remorse and deep love towards her. The work I have been doing to open up and work on my anger has been changing me. I just don't want it to be too late to save my marriage!
I appreciate you all letting me vent and for your thoughtful replies.
Just so I know, have you read the Div Busting or Div Remedy book(s)? Do read them!
They are crucial to this process so don't skimp, please. Plus you will get SO MUCH MORE out of this site when you grasp the jargon/concepts we use, which is in the books.25,
By the way, I appreciate your perspective and you being straightforward with me. I can readily admit that I have made quite a few mistakes in my marriage (and am happy to lay them bare on this forum). I would love to be able to make amends to her in person and that desire is what claws at my heart the most. As I mentioned above, I did mail her a heartfelt letter a few weeks ago, but got no reply.
Unless you believe you sent it to the wrong address, you know she got it and you have no control over what she did with it or what she believed about it. So, let that go. Seriously, learning to let go of what you cannot control, is KEY to this.
It's amazing how much time we spend/waste on things we Cannot control.
Plus, trying to control her, now, is a really bad idea.
The letter had words in it, not actions. I know, I know, what can you DO in front of her if there is no contact? You can be super patient & work on your issues while you have this gift of time.
I hope you took in what I wrote. If she felt humiliated in front of her kids, that's a bigger deal than you may realize. And please trust me --- if you raised your voice at her (AND OR the kids), along with the cursing, trust me when I tell you that she was humiliated. That can do something to a woman who has already survived a bad marriage and divorce.
Btw, for what it's worth, the person who is calmest in an argument is the person with the power, NOT the person out of control. I wish men realized that more (and some women). They think escalation is advantageous b/c sometimes they get their way, in the short run. But they really don't get a pay off in the long run.
Which I guess you see now.
Part of me thinks I need to give it more time; part of me acknowledges that i have no control over her thoughts and actions; and part of me is in too much pain to see things very rationally. But the bottom line is that I feel deep remorse and deep love towards her. The work I have been doing to open up and work on my anger has been changing me. I just don't want it to be too late to save my marriage!
I appreciate you all letting me vent and for your thoughtful replies.
How are YOUR Kids handling all this? Were they there when you had the blow out? How are they doing now, and do they miss her kids? It seems that step siblings should not be moved about00 close to, or far from b/c of the parents' r. Not that you wanted that, but it's just something I feel bad about, on top of the rest of your situation...
Anyhow, I am tempted to suggest ways to reach her via the kids (yours telling hers that you have done a lot of work on yourself and that you are a changed/improved man, etc).
But 2 things give me pause. First, you need to work on your stuff a lot more than you need to work on getting her back. Besides, getting her back won't last anyhow, if you don't also do YOUR work. The focus needs to be on making sure you are TOTALLY prepared for a chance at a stressful situation in which you do NOT lose it.
Do you have positive role models for that? Most of know what NOT to do, but when things get hard, we revert to our learned habits...a dear friend of mine, "DG", is a truly great dad and husband, but his own father did a poor job at both. (In fact, his dad ended his own life after his 3rd wife left him.) Yet DG broke the cycle.
How? DG hung around his pastor like you are, and he sought out time with his father in law (a great role model for handling stress without anger). DG is proof that it CAN be done. But yeah, he once told me that he needed some new role models after his dad's suicide, and so, he sought them out and got them. And now his son is married and is calm, loving, strong. All because of DG's work, done despite his own grief about his dad.
I don't know a thing about your family life or history or why your first marriage ended. But I do know people can change. Whether it's in time to stop the divorce, I can't say. But I can say that a divorce is merely a piece of paper. You can reconnect and even date and yes, remarry after a divorce. I have 2 family members who remarried after a divorce.
So it happens.
How is YOUR OWN WORK going now? Is your 12 step program about anger? And are you GAL? We hammer it here for one huge reason: it works.
Hang in there and if you have a specific interaction then maybe we can help you more.
[quote=25yearsmlc]Just so I know, have you read the Div Busting or Div Remedy book(s)? Do read them!
They are crucial to this process so don't skimp, please. Plus you will get SO MUCH MORE out of this site when you grasp the jargon/concepts we use, which is in the books.
I have read DB once and have ordered DR through Amazon. Hope to have it soon. Have done two phone sessions with a DB coach and have been looking at the forum, but am definitely a newbie to the DB world.
Unless you believe you sent it to the wrong address, you know she got it and you have no control over what she did with it or what she believed about it. So, let that go. Seriously, learning to let go of what you cannot control, is KEY to this.
It's amazing how much time we spend/waste on things we Cannot control.
Plus, trying to control her, now, is a really bad idea.
The letter had words in it, not actions. I know, I know, what can you DO in front of her if there is no contact? You can be super patient & work on your issues while you have this gift of time.
I hope you took in what I wrote. If she felt humiliated in front of her kids, that's a bigger deal than you may realize. And please trust me --- if you raised your voice at her (AND OR the kids), along with the cursing, trust me when I tell you that she was humiliated. That can do something to a woman who has already survived a bad marriage and divorce.
Btw, for what it's worth, the person who is calmest in an argument is the person with the power, NOT the person out of control. I wish men realized that more (and some women). They think escalation is advantageous b/c sometimes they get their way, in the short run. But they really don't get a pay off in the long run.
Which I guess you see now.
Thank you again. I appreciate your POV and, of course, wish I had seen this a few months ago. I don’t want to paint the image that I was/am a complete tyrant or rage monster. I was and am definitely a loving father and my W said on numerous occasions that her kids were very lucky to have me in their lives, that I was a good male role model, etc. But yes, I acted inappropriately a number of times.
How are YOUR Kids handling all this? Were they there when you had the blow out? How are they doing now, and do they miss her kids? It seems that step siblings should not be moved about00 close to, or far from b/c of the parents' r. Not that you wanted that, but it's just something I feel bad about, on top of the rest of your situation...
Anyhow, I am tempted to suggest ways to reach her via the kids (yours telling hers that you have done a lot of work on yourself and that you are a changed/improved man, etc).
My D7 is pretty devastated. Her biological mother had mental health issues (substance abuse + bipolar) and left a few years ago to live on the W. Coast. She hasn’t seen either kid since early 2011. So my D7 was really enjoying having a mother figure back in her life. My WAW hasn’t had any contact with my kids either. My SD turns 16 on Monday. My kids and I mailed a birthday card with a gift card inside to my WAW, but I don’t know if she will give it to her. (I ran this move by my DB coach first, btw.)
But 2 things give me pause. First, you need to work on your stuff a lot more than you need to work on getting her back. Besides, getting her back won't last anyhow, if you don't also do YOUR work. The focus needs to be on making sure you are TOTALLY prepared for a chance at a stressful situation in which you do NOT lose it.
Do you have positive role models for that? Most of know what NOT to do, but when things get hard, we revert to our learned habits...a dear friend of mine, "DG", is a truly great dad and husband, but his own father did a poor job at both. (In fact, his dad ended his own life after his 3rd wife left him.) Yet DG broke the cycle.
How? DG hung around his pastor like you are, and he sought out time with his father in law (a great role model for handling stress without anger). DG is proof that it CAN be done. But yeah, he once told me that he needed some new role models after his dad's suicide, and so, he sought them out and got them. And now his son is married and is calm, loving, strong. All because of DG's work, done despite his own grief about his dad.
Agreed. I have recommitted myself to a meditation practice with a group and have started attending discussion groups at a church here. I have been sober in AA for 12 years (I’ll say this since this is an anonymous forum) and have been working closely with my sponsor the past couple of months about my temper. And have been going to IC 2x/wk.
I went to church last night. This is a church that my W took the kids to. I didn’t attend out of stubbornness and a desire for some alone time, but she did get to know the pastor a bit. He’s a good guy and I’ve been opening up to him the past few weeks. Last night he said he has been praying for us and would be willing to try to counsel us or at least dialogue with us both if she would be willing. My intuition tells me that she would probably like the pastor as a third person more than the MC, but I’m leery of my intuition these days b/c I was so mistaken about our marriage. My DB coach said to go dark for two weeks then call him. That would mean late next week. I’m itching to call sooner and see if he has a plan to reach out to the WAW about the pastor’s offer; however, I’ve decided to stay disciplined and wait to set up another appointment w/him.
I don't know a thing about your family life or history or why your first marriage ended. But I do know people can change. Whether it's in time to stop the divorce, I can't say. But I can say that a divorce is merely a piece of paper. You can reconnect and even date and yes, remarry after a divorce. I have 2 family members who remarried after a divorce.
So it happens.
How is YOUR OWN WORK going now? Is your 12 step program about anger? And are you GAL? We hammer it here for one huge reason: it works.
Well, I’ve been working at spending more time with friends – lunches, coffee, etc. The kids and I did martial arts together for a couple years before the split and I’m planning on resuming classes with the kids this weekend. Get some fitness for all of us.
Hang in there and if you have a specific interaction then maybe we can help you more.
Thank you. I’ve really appreciated your thoughtful replies.
25,
I wanted to let you know that i took your correspondence with me this morning to my IC. She thought your views of what women want/need were spot on and she was glad I was getting your perspective. I've re-read what you wrote a few times and it's sinking in more.
So thanks again.
25,
re: the letter i mentioned and your response, do you have any ideas for actions I can take to demonstrate that I understand that I've hurt my WAW and want to make amends?
I don't know if anyone is reading this topic - I'm posting quite a bit and it feels like it's not connecting with anyone, but it is helping me to vent a bit.
I got DR in the mail (read DB a couple of weeks ago). Scheduled a coaching session for Monday. DR got me in a good frame of mind yesterday. Actually, it made me a little angry about my sitch. W leaving me and my two kids w/o any contact since. I've had no contact w/SS, with whom I was very close. I'm being forced to get rid of the house w/o her income. And when she left she blamed me for every problem in the R.
So I actually went to bed with more resolve to stick to the going dark. This morning I took my kids to a family martial arts lesson for the first time in 2.5 months. We used to all go as a family. I wanted to get exercise, get my kids some exercise and reclaim the class. Everyone was welcoming and nice, but on the drive home I began to cry. It reminded me of two years when we had that routine of driving to and from class 3x/wk, my W and i in the front seat, listening to the radio. Also, my house is showing for the first time today, so my kids and i are frantically cleaning in order to get it ready. And i bagged up the remaining clothes and shoes that my W left in our closet and am taking them to a clothing swap today. All these things really hit me at once and I have spent the past 1.5 hours crying off and on. My kids keep coming to me and giving me hugs and I keep reassuring them that everything is fine.
Man, I thought i was past this emotional upheaval. I'm getting through hour by hour. Reading the forum, looking forward to some time to read more DR today, looking forward to my coaching session on Monday. Trying to GAL is still hard.
I feel sorta pathetic posting like this and don't know if anyone is there, but I appreciate this forum being there nonetheless.
-John
Being NC is hard. Especially when you're working on yourself and discovering new things AND wanting to work on your marriage. It can be a very lonely process.
You and I are on the same timeline and I can tell you that I am still having emotional upheavals. It usually has t do with experiencing a "first" without my H or having a realization or thinking back to where my R was in the past. Hell, I've cried this week over a Christmas tree, sitting in a box. I think it's mocking me (not really, but it reminds me that my H isn't here. And our traditions and how I vowed I would never have a fake tree.....and just typing this makes me tears eyed).
Add in to your sitch the holidays, your anniversary month, missing your SS, selling your house - it's ALOT. Take it day by day, that's all you can do. And listen to 25 - she's got a lot of wisdom and you're lucky that she's sharing it with you.
Keep sharing, if nothing else, as a way to vent.
Hey guys, I feel your pain. For me the snap back to the past was someone talking about a trailer. Made me think of the Christmas trip to Disneyworld where we stayed in one of the trailer at the Fort Wilderness campground. Man it was record cold, and it all felt like it happened yesterday.
Just steel yourself for it happening all the time for a while. What is most people's biggest fear? That of the unknown. Well we know it's gonna happen. The bugger is we just don't know when.
Praying for y'all.
It's nice to be able to admit to breaking down and crying. There's still a part of me that tells me a man shouldn't.
I totally get the Christmas tree and trailer being triggers. This morning when I was getting blubbery driving back from Tae Kwon Do, songs by KISS and AC/DC came on the radio. Those CDs were always in my wife's car b/c my kids loved listening to them (and we listened to them a lot b/c they were better than the usual junk on the radio). When they came on the radio today, i actually laughed and thought, "You've got to be kidding me!".
Hey okjpc, I'm a few months ahead of you in the timeline. Like you there hasn't been a whole lot of contact between me and my H since he moved out. It's hard! I can tell you that it get's easier, but that doesn't mean that the tears will go away. I've gone weeks without tears but they've made a reappearance this weekend for no reason in particular. Actually that just tells me that I'm not ready to give up.
Thank you all for the conversation. My kids spent the night at grandparents, so I had my first night away from them in a few weeks. Went out with a couple friends and had some good talks and laughs. Driving home I was thinking, "You know what? Screw her. Yes, we were fighting and I was pretty angry the last couple of months she was in the house, but I tried repeatedly to talk about the issues that were on the table and she refused to communicate about them. I tried to do MC with her and she stopped coming after two sessions. She left my children after she assured my daughter that she would never leave her (like her biological mother did). She broke off contact between my S&D and SS&SD and me from SS&SD. She severed all financial ties, said that I had destroyed the family, that she was never coming back, and has steadfastly refused to communicate for two months. So why would I want to be married to her?! Yes, I love her deeply and can't imagine life with anyone else but her, but she has acted in an appalling way."
It was the first real feeling of detachment I have experienced since she left. And the first evidence of my GAL efforts paying off.
Or am I totally full of BS?!? Man, it's hour by hour still for me. I woke up crushed and lonely. Went to church with kids and my mind kept hatching new plans to win her back. Then I felt at peace with her gone. Then I obsessed for an hour about thoughts of her with someone new. I'm shaking my head at myself now! Kind of pathetic and kind of funny at the same time.
Okjpc,
Yeah the detachment comes and goes at first. I had the same thing, I got so angry that I had to detach or I was going to go insane. Anyway, it lasted a couple weeks, then I started to obsess about how to get her back again. It will be like this for a while, I suppose.
You know my story, so I'm in the same sitch as you with pretty much NC. It is so tough with all of this going on inside you and not being able to let it out or even see how she is reacting to your changes. Do you have a close confidant that isn't involved in the sitch that you can talk to? Maybe someone at work that doesn't know W? It helps me a lot just to talk things through and vent. Careful not to let things out to people that know both of you, that's asking for trouble, unless you know that they are going to be trustworthy. I messed that up a few times.
MCS,
Amen. It's really mind twisting. I've gone back and started reading your sitch from the beginning and the conversations you've had with other people on the forum. I've seen you grow through your postings and I know that some day I'll look back on my own postings and notice big changes. Being open and honest with my feelings is still not something that comes naturally to me. B/c I'm a man? Not sure, but honesty inspires honesty.
This sitch has gotten me to open up to a couple of people outside the sitch and having that open communication with them has been a lifesaver. I did reach to one friend of my W. She made it clear that she had no answers for me, so I stopped pushing. But every few days my mind comes up with some brilliant idea for reaching out to my WAW's parents, co-workers, etc. Luckily, I haven't followed through on those ideas.
I'm sure a lot of people here feel this way - I wish I had found DB months before my W walked out and went NC, but I'm glad I found it when I did. I am pretty sure that if I hadn't I would have made my sitch much more difficult and painful.
Last thing, but i appreciate you posting about the cycles of getting angry then obsessing about getting her back. That cycle for me lasts about 4 hours (on a good day). I'm glad to hear that you're at 2 weeks between turns. Gives me hope!
Thanks again, man.
When I say two weeks, its my average feeling. My mood can go up and down multiple times during the day. I think its all normal and if you think about this as going through grief, the emotional highs and lows make sense.
Thanks for the kind words about me growing through this. I remember reading other people's sitch's and thinking there's no way that I would ever be able to gain enough courage to do stuff like they do. Well, it's a step at a time. Its uncanny how similar the phases of the WAW's are in these situations. Reading other posts helps me prepare for what's next
My big turning point was when I found out about OM. It connected all of the dots in my head and helped me get out of the self-deprecating thoughts that I had caused all of this.
Your W will have to reach out and interact with you. Use this time to prepare yourself. As you probably read, we had kids in the middle and it still took my W up until last week (4 months) to have a normal conversation.
I just had my third DB coaching session with Chuck. Since I can't afford my house w/o the W, it's in a short sale process with the bank. That means I'm not paying the mortgage any more until the house sells, or is foreclosed on. I mention this just to say I decided to use some the extra money for DB coaching instead of lavish xmas gifts, a GAL trip, or saving it. And i was really looking forward all week to the coaching session.
Today is my SD's 16th birthday - my D, S and I sent a card last week with a gift card inside. Chuck approved of the gesture. Haven't heard anything from the WAW about it. Other than this move, have been completely dark for a little over 2 weeks. It may not sound like much, but it has been very difficult for me to do. (I think it has been the right move, however.)
He told me today that going completely dark may not be the best 180 in my R b/c her expectation of me could very well be that i'm p'ed off and alone. Wedding anniversary is the week after next and Xmas week after that. He suggested i send my W a lighthearted anniversary card on Monday, not mentioning the R, saying ILY, etc. Then send an Xmas card the Monday after that and include some movie passes so my W can take her kids to a movie. But otherwise keep going dark and see if she makes contact.
That sounds like a good plan to me and it's comforting to have a couple of action items coming up during a tough month. I've been craving some kind of action since my WAW had been NC for two months. I haven't had any feedback mechanism for how my actions have been received. But, most importantly probably, I think the NC has really pushed me into positive GAL activities. And it's finally starting to penetrate that my GAL has to not be at all tainted with the desire to win back my WAW. I ended up taking the day off work, took a long walk at a local park (it's a beautiful 65 degree day here today) and am feeling more peaceful now.
Again, I appreciate everyone posting on this forum. I've read a lot of posts and I'm starting to get with the program. Over the past three days, I have had 3-4 solid feelings of detachment from the sitch and the W. And it is starting to feel like the GAL work I've been doing is helping with my PMA and starting to be for me more than a tactic to get my W to take notice.
I'm even starting to get the DB abbreviations and lingo down
Got a call today for a job interview out of state. Trying not to think about it or project into the future (will my WAW talk with me before I take the job - if i get the job, I'm one of two people being interviewed, so 50/50 shot i guess; should i go ahead and file for divorce by a certain date; would a new start be a good idea or a really bad one right now, etc).
It's been really hard for me for over a week now to stay focused on the task at hand. Despite working on PMA and good GAL stuff, my mind is on some level consumed at all times by thoughts of my WAW and sitch. I've even been dreaming of her the past few nights. It's really exhausting...
By the way, would anyone be willing to share specific things you are doing to maintain PMA? Messages/prayers you are repeating to yourselves? Books you're reading? Music that's helping? etc.
My IC suggested I say to myself, "I deeply want W to have the deepest desires of her heart, even if she doesn't want to be with me." This does help me find some semblance of detachment sometimes, so it's working. And I don't want to jumble up my head with more thinking, but I would love to hear what others are doing...
The PMA is hard. It comes and goes, I was doing good earlier today but not so much tonight. So maybe this is a pick-me-up post.....thanks okpjc
First, I always think about if 6 months ago someone would ask me how I would react and manage if my W left unexpectedly, I try to make sure the things I'm doing fall in line with my expectations of myself.
-Don't give up
-Try to understand
-Protect my family
-Re-prioritize
-Etc.
Here's some other things that I have done.
I've reconnected with my faith through this, so most of my PMA comes from that as you'll see below.
I do feel closer to Him and part of my PMA is he's got our back. We are trying to do the stuff that is as hard as anything, but I would go on a limb and say it is what we should be doing and what He wants. To try and honor our commitments to each other and Him. This is the 'worse' in the 'for better or worse.' In saying that, regardless of the outcome there's a plan for us, we just can't see the ending right now, but we will be happy wherever He takes us. I tell my D4 and S5 this just about everynight.
In keeping with that, as its where I've gotten most of my strength, contemporary church songs have new-found meaning. I catch myself tearing up for at least one song every week. You probably will cry your eyes out for a couple of these at first, but they've become comforting to me because if there's a song about it, someone else has gone through it. Here goes....hopefully you have Spotify.
Music
Casting Crowns (the whole Thrive album, but)
Broken Together
House of their Dreams
John WallerWhile I'm Waiting
DownhereHere I am
Third DayI need a Miracle
Websites
This one of course
This article (its for A, but probably still applies)
No Peace for Prodigals Movies
The movie 'Fireproof' its on Netflix, although I was jealous when I watched it that in the movie they both were at home.
Scripture
The entire book of James (we had a sermon series on it, yeah those hit home)
The 40 day challenge (again good scripture, but tough to do NC) has some good ones in there.
Prayer:
As far as prayers, the website above has some good ones.
I usually just ask that He guides my hand and actions in the direction that He needs and not what I think I need to do at the time
I also ask that he is with my W as she works through her issues and allows her to lean on Him for guidance
Hope it helps. If you find anything feel free to let me know. I'm always looking.
Thank you, MCS.
There is some helpful stuff. My S has made me much more serious about my spiritual life and I've started being much more active in my church. The 40-day challenge looks interesting - I would be completely willing to give it a try. Have you been able to talk about it with your W?
My pastor has offered to help in any way, but I'm not sure yet what that would be. Like you, I'm praying to hear God's will for me and the power to carry it out.
I know for myself I want to "do" something about the situation! I'm working to channel that need into prayer and reading and talking with people and other GAL stuff.
My IC suggested I say to myself, "I deeply want W to have the deepest desires of her heart, even if she doesn't want to be with me."
Hello and welcome okjpc.
I wanted to ask a question.
This quote was suggested to help you with a PMA?
Thanks, JP.
My IC wanted me to work on detachment, so she came up with this phrase.
I'm bouncing that around in my head. If you are at the point that that doesn't trigger any negatives and helps, then good.
I would offer this suggestion, make it your own. Find something that comes from within you, so it is more genuine
For me I would find something also or else that is more focused on you.
(OMG... There is a working edit)
Thanks, JP. I hadn't really thought about it much. It made sense to me at the time and I needed something to feel like I was detaching from her. I'd love to hear any thoughts and ideas you have.
25,
I was wondering you have any additional wisdom to offer re: my sitch. I've been letting your comments about my anger sink in, but I find myself swinging back and forth from thinking, "I really messed up" to "Yes, I blew up at her, but I still think she was eroding the family structure (perhaps unwittingly) and she went really scorched earth on me. And abandoned my children and denied anyone proper healing."
I don't know how to reconcile these in my mind, don't know if i need to and also don't have a clue how to initiate contact.
I probably sound really foolish to you, but I am pretty new to the DB work.
Okjpc,
It doesn't seem foolish, we are all going through the same roller coaster. Like I said, I was like that for weeks. That's when discovery of OM made me connect all the pieces and find some peace with myself that it wasn't all my fault. I think your thoughts are totally normal at this stage.
Also, I haven't done any of the 40 day challenge. My W will not talk to me outside of counselling (mediation) and even in there, it is only about separation logistics. Hopefully at some point I can start doing it.
I needed something to feel like I was detaching from her.
There are many artilces if you look for them on Detaching, I think there is a good on this forum, don't remember where
25 has commented on your sitch. She can be sporadic as she is busy person and can be very stright forward in her post. She pushed me and said things that p1ssed me off. I am truely greatful for all she has done for me. I still read her post.
My point is, read and re-read what she says. Make actions from her advice, trust her. She is one of the best here and there are many. I trust and respect her.
Thanks, JP. Yeah, I've been kind of flailing and needy, but I really appreciate the feedback I've gotten. I've read 25's comments a few times. Even printed them out and showed them to my IC last week - she thought they were really accurate.
This forum has felt something like a lifeline to me. And everyone's comments are beginning to sink in. For some reason the phrase "Drop the Rope" really hit home and I went to bed with a good sense of detachment. Then i dreamt most of the night about my WAW's XH trying to f* with me, my W having an A with another woman, my SS trying to get ahold of me, etc. But some of that detachment stuck and feel, despite being very tired, more focused on work and non-DB stuff than i have since the S began.
I even checked out a book to read that isn't about saving my M! That's progress for me.
Don't get discouraged as you will be up and down a lot.
Focusing on you is the hardest part, yet the most important.
Thanks, JP. I appreciate the advice and support.
Hi there, I promised to have a look at your sitch after you kindly came and commented on mine. One thing that stood out for me were the difficulties you had in relating to your W's XH. You called him a turd in one of your posts and mentioned that there had been some difficulties around him in your R.
I think it is an area to think about. Whatever happens, he was in a R with your W and fathered the kids. There's no changing that, and if you are with your W, you are linked to him - for better and worse.
If you have an adversarial approach towards him, or demean him, it could make things pretty difficult. I appreciate he may not be the best example of a father or former spouse.
But if you could accept who and what he is, it might make for a better situation?
That was the main thing that stood out for me anyway. I hope this is helpful. I always got along pretty well with H's XW, and she has encouraged and facilitated me staying in touch with SS, which I really appreciate.
Toots :-)
Thanks, Toots. I will say I never said anything bad about the XH in front of the kids and my W certainly called him a lot worse! But I think I get your point and will reflect on it more.
Honestly, I'm a little resentful because I felt like much of our marriage existed in the shadows of my W's first marriage. What I mean is that she gave into many of his demands and made or altered many plans unilaterally in order to suit him and/or the SS. I felt punked a lot of times by my W's XH and 11yo son. I tried to say that to my W a few times and she would only say, "That isn't true." or "I hear you, but I don't agree with you" and would get very defensive. I don't know if I brought it up in an inappropriate way (I tried not to), if it touched a nerve with her, or what.
By the way, I found out today that I'm a finalist for an out-of-state job. Am going in for a final interview next Thursday. Obviously I haven't been offered the job yet, but they seem to be speeding up the timeline (next interview was originally supposed to happen in Jan.) and the answer may come more quickly than I expected.
I would love some indication from my WAW what she wants. I have had zero communication from her since Nov. 4th. Haven't seen her or spoken in person since Oct. 3. Everyone (except DB coach) is telling me I should work to accept it's over, but I don't want to admit that. And have received no word from her that she is filing for D, etc.
I know i'm projecting into the future, but I want to begin preparing myself mentally for more tough decisions. I guess I'm thinking mostly if this presents an opportunity to get my WAW to talk?
Just scheduled another coaching session for next Thursday (a couple hours after the schedule interview) and I have IC tomorrow morning.
Feeling much calmer today. I have been in recovery for alcoholism for 12 years, have kicked drugs and cigarettes too. The reason i mention this is b/c there has been an obsessiveness, and addictive quality to the thoughts and feelings I've had since the S began. I've recognized this, but haven't felt much reprieve until this week. A lot of the the stuff I'm learning from DB and you all are very congruent with the skills I've learned in 12-step recovery and they're working.
I may "relapse" emotionally before lunch, but I just wanted to share some hope and gratitude for anyone who reads this.
I have been in recovery for alcoholism for 12 years, have kicked drugs and cigarettes too.
okjpc, I have such respect for anyone who overcomes addiction. It takes a lot to pull your life out of that. Good job.
Thanks, rppfl. But I don't deserve any credit.
I wish I had more to post about my sitch. But the only thing that has changed for weeks and weeks is my own mood. After feeling strong for a couple of days, I'm back to being a mess. I had to spend a few hours today with my kids at a couple of events in the neighborhood of my WAW's parents at it filled me with sadness, resentment and anxiety that i might run into my W and/or her family. My kids have been acting out towards me ever since the S and I'm tired of dealing with it today. I'm having a hard time and have noone here to hold me, to comfort me, to talk with. Can't get any friends on the phone. I'm in this house that I'm losing at some point to foreclosure and every room holds ghosts and disappointments. I'm hiding in my bedroom for 10 minutes to cry and write this while my kids are doing something in their room. I'm sure i'll be fine in a bit and will figure out something to do with myself and the kids for the rest of the day. But right now I'm really, really sad. I really miss my W. I want some kind of contact. Some kind of hope. Or some kind of end to the uncertainty. I want some kind of magic resolution and story about the rise and fall of the R that I can comfort myself with. I miss my stepkids. I want my family back. I want order. I want certainty. I want my old family routines. And since I can't have that, I just want to run the f**k away.
Thanks for letting me vent. The kids are shouting that they need toilet paper - back to doing the next right thing.
Dude, you are not alone, you have a lot of friends on these boards, real people with similar situations... People that know how you feel, people that are a couple of weeks, months or even years ahead of you and things do get better with time. Trust the process, be the best dad in the world and adopt a cheery attitude towards life, even if you don't always feel like it. Fake it, 'till you make it...
Thanks, Vapo. I just get really worn down sometimes. I ran errands for three hours with the kids and am feeling better now.
Hi okjpc,
Hey friend, it's the most normal thing around here. One minute you are feeling really positive, and the other minute you get depressed, really down on yourself.
It is not by mistake that people say D is worse then death. At least death is definitive, but D is something that consumes you.
Allow yourself to grieve, first you feel dizzy with desperation, then it comes the need to get her back, then you start feeling angry, soon you feel guilty and then angry again, it's all perfect logical responses for us human beings.
I know, I know... better said then done. But, there is not other way around. So for me, it works to cry when I need to and to feel good when I need to.
The hardest thing for me is the whole detaching... but I am getting better, at first it felt like giving up but now it feels like taking care after my self.
And man, stop blaming yourself alone, it's true that because we are here we tell what we did wrong, but a M is two people and he probably has some faults to point to. So, be grateful that you are humble enough to see all your mistakes but don't beat yourself up for all what happen.
I don't remember reading when did your W D her first H. It makes a difference because she may have some issues from her first M and brought it to the R. Maybe it happen to you too.
About contact with your SS and SD, maybe you can ask your DB Coach or your IC if it would be OK to talk to your W if you can take the kids for lunch along with your kids, so they can catch up on what is going on in their lives. I don't know what is the right thing to do here, but it's almost unfair to separate kids without any consideration.
Maybe now, around XMas time it would be a good idea to go out to celebrate.
It's very hard to go through all this, but it's one day at time and you can do it. Like the idea of martial arts, I did it myself for a long time w/my kid S14. It's was a lot of fun.
Also, if you get this new job, you will be moving to another state. You have been praying and asking guidance from God, maybe he is answering it. Have hope and embrace all the changes you are facing right now.
Good luck... keep working on yourself.
Hugs,
Pink
Thank you, Pink. There is a lot in what you wrote that I needed to hear. I do keep replaying the things I said and did to my W that I regret and wish I could take back. And she blamed me entirely for all the problems in the R when she left. But yes, she certainly made mistakes. And the way she left, w/o discussion, leaving behind my children (who called her "mom") w/o explanation, separating them from her children and her children from me. It was brutal and has me questioning her character and my judgment.
I'm going to ask my DB coach on Thursday about the stepchildren and how/if to reach out. I daydream a little each day about what I want to say to my SS.
But I'll give a quick GAL update. I'm having plumbing problems at the house (broken hot water line under the foundation - plumber coming Tuesday to fix - so haven't been able to do laundry or shower at home for 1.5 weeks. Kids and I took all the laundry to a laundromat yesterday afternoon and the kids helped sort, stuff laundry in the machines, etc. Then we walked around while the clothes were washing. Went to a thrift store and got a great jean jacket for my D. Did grocery shopping too. Then went home, ate dinner, watched a Christmas special on Netflix then tucked them in. I stayed up for a few hours folding laundry, eating cereal and mac&cheese (good single dad staples) and watching Sons of Anarchy. Finally a night w/o reading DB-type books and journaling. Felt darn good.
This morning went to church then took kids to buy some presents for some families in the community who are down on their luck and that the church is supporting. The kids really got into it and we talked a lot about gratitude. Then they had to be back at church to rehearse for the xmas play. Instead of going home during that time, I started talking with one of the other parents. We sat and talked for two hours and she opened up that she has actually gone through 3 divorces! She felt ashamed and stigmatized for a few years, but is past it. She said she appreciated me opening up and will be glad to know that there's another person at church who has gone through some stuff and knows the pain of S and D.
I then decided to call a few AA friends and ask if they would come to my house some evening this week and hold a meeting in my living room. I don't get an evening w/o kids very often and have only gotten out for meetings once in the past month! And i live on a small farm out in the country. But a handful of friends said they will come over tomorrow night (after kids are in bed) and bring a meeting to me. I'm really glad i thought to ask and am grateful to have friends who will do that for me.
Then, when i was tucking the kids in bed, they opened up to me a bit. S asked, "Dad, how many divorces are we going to have to go through?" And D piped in, "Yeah Dad, how many times are you going to get married?" I explained that i hope i don't get a D this time, that i am working to save this M. They opened up about missing the SS/SD, being sad about moving from this house, scared to start at a new school in January, etc. The whole talk felt very open, warm and intimate. They have been struggling with the S too, but don't talk about their feelings much. I also got a chance to apologize for being impatient with them this weekend, for letting my stress about the S come out around them.
At any rate, tough weekend emotionally, but some definite bright spots.
Man, buying an anniversary card for the WAW is tough (anniversary is Sunday). I ended up getting a couple of blank cards and I'm going to as my IC and some trusted advisers which one i should choose and what I should/not include in the message.
Anyone have any advice?
I bought a Christmas card for W last year when our sitch was newer. I never gave it to her. Consider that as an option.
When kids are involved in the middle of a S, it is very painful. But, I would just advise you to keep talking to them, not really about the S or D as per say, but about their lives, what they are doing, what they look for on their future. If you see some signs of depression, anxiety or even too much sadness, maybe you may consider some counseling for them right away.
If things are rolling well, then maybe you can decide your work, housing, new school situation and then get them evaluated and set them up for a few sessions with a experience counselor for teens.
It's a difficult age because things are changing constantly in their lanes and the hormones are all over the place. So, keep and eye on them and be their best friend/dad you can be.
And talking about Church, I just got baptized yesterday. I have been a catholic my whole life, but lately I feel I want more from the church and I have been feeling a little distant from mine, there are a lot of politics around.
So, yesterday, on my 18th anniversary, I was reborn in Christ. I felt very good and I am feeling very good. I asked God to help me to let go and start a new life w/my kids.
I am very tired of the whole drama and I think it is time to think about my life, what I want to do next.
H decide to go out w/kids on Saturday (he normally does it on sunday. When he dropped the kids off he came into the house, when he was leaving I asked if I could say something to him, then we both walked outside. I told him it was worthy it the 18 years we spent together and he said he appreciate that I said that to him.
H did not say more, he choked on his own words and had tears in his eyes. He gave me a very long and strong hug, I hugged him back and got lose at some point. Good night and left.
It has been a crazy ride. Be happy and hang in there.
Hugs,
Pink
Thank you, Pink. I just had some friends over for an informal AA meeting in my home. The main thing we touched on is the power of sharing our experience, strength and hope with each other. It's so wonderful to have everyone on this forum sharing theirs so freely.
Luckily, I do have a very good IC for my children. Actually took them today and I think it helped.
I'm so glad you are finding a new and good connection to church. Faith has been so important to me these past 2-3 months. And the DB work has been very important as well. Doing the DB program is helping me feel like I'm at least doing everything I can do for the M. Then I can give it all to God. Sort of like if it's God's will that my W and I can come together and save the M, then I'm all in. If it isn't God's will, then I can rest more easily b/c I am not sabotaging anything and I remain willing to do God's will. It's a comfort I feel at least on occasion throughout the day.
Thanks again for sharing your sitch. Sounds like an interesting turn this weekend. And thanks for the support.
And re: the anniversary card - my DB coach thought it was a good idea and my IC thought I should send one b/c if I do, she may not respond in any way, but if I don't, my W may get p*ssed. Best to keep it brief and simple. I have an appointment w/IC tomorrow, so I'm going to show her the cards I bought, have her help me pick one and craft a message.
But I may still decide to chuck it. I'll see how I'm thinking and feeling about it later this week. Heck, I'm interested to see how i feel about everything when i wake up tomorrow.
Had good IC session today. Talked about the changes I've been making and that my IC has been seeing. An interesting thing came up. After my SS and I had our blowup in early August, he stayed with his father for two weeks. During that time he brought the SS to an IC session with same IC. Since the XH isn't a client and not subject to confidentiality, my IC told me today that he praised me. Said I was a good guy, had been a good SF, was a good influence on the kids, that he knew my W was upset about the argument and he hoped we would keep the M intact b/c he felt like his kids were better off having me in their lives.
I'm really glad my IC told me this. And I'm glad she sat on this info until today.
Also, we picked the proper anniversary card and message to write inside. The card i bought is blank inside and has a woman photographed from the back dancing on a beach in a skirt, tank top and sunhat. She looks a lot like my W and her body language fits too. My IC thought so too. Inside I'm planning to write, "Thinking of you on our anniversary. This card reminded me of you. Hope you're happy. -my name"
I would lose the happy part. It is going to sound either:
A. vindictive
or
B. a big fat lie.
Of course you do not want her to be happy sans you...
Anyways, just my 2 cents...
Vapo,
Good point! I didn't think about that, but "happy" could sound snarky. Thanks, man.
My anniversary was on 12/14, sunday. H picked up the kids on saturday for a movie and dinner. I knew he chose saturday so he wouldn't need to be around on sunday.
When he dropped off the kids I asked if I could say something to him. I told him it was "worthy it". He tried to pretend he did not understand why I was saying that. Then I sad that 18 years beside him was very worthy it, he said it was important to hear that from me.
Then he couldn't say no more, he chocked and had tears in his eyes. He gave a long and strong hug.
On sunday, he forward some Geek Squad email to me, but no word about the marriage.
And I do understand your point of being simple but leaving a mark. For me, it was not only the fact that he didn't send me a card or flowers, but my H could at least say "Thank You" for putting up with so much ups and downs in our lives. This is a man I helped a lot. I did a lot of hard work raising our kids while he was growing professionally and now he can't even say thank you.
I know I am no suppose to expect anything from him right now, but I am starting to think that his selfishness is still a big problem.
So, good for you. If you weight the good and bad and in your heart you know it is the right thing to do, then do it because at least you have peace with yourself.
She may not answer in any way, but deep inside she will know you have respect for her.
Hope things get better for you. Glad your kids are seeing the IC and it is helping them. It should be difficult for them that suddenly their family is divided and they lost contact with the kids they were sharing a life.
This kind of loss can leave deep wounds that later in life will come to distort your values. Hope they can cope well with all this mess now and don't have a bitter side later on.
You are doing good. It's hard to go through so much and still be there a main support for kids. You need to be in constant mode of giving and it's very stressful at times.
Thanks for the positive comments about faith. Yesterday my IC asked me to find a safe place that I can go every time I feel anxious or depressed. I tried the beach, since I like it a lot and always found peace on it, but it did not work then. The only thing that work was to put my hands together on my chest and be with my faith, with God.
So, my IC and I agreed that this will be my safe place. And I feel glad it is this way.
Life will be better tomorrow.
Pink
Thanks, Pink. Part of me sending a card is simply not to make her more angry, but I genuinely do love her and want to acknowledge the anniversary. It's a special occasion to me at least and to let it go unnoticed wouldn't feel right. Plus, I want to take the high road.
I also called my sister and mother this week and asked them to please not think or speak badly about my WAW. They're both pretty negative people and spend a lot of time badmouthing other people. I said that I love my W deeply and hope that we can still have a M together, even if that seems unlikely by outward appearances. I have made mistakes, divorce isn't fun for anyone involved, so please refrain from saying anything negative against her. I will be around them a lot over Christmas and I wanted to set this boundary. Also, I felt a bit chivalrous, like I was defending my W, even if she doesn't know. I need to feel like I have been acting in my best possible way since the S, that I'm not causing any more damage.
And thank you, Pink, for saying that my W will know that I respect her from the card I send. Obviously I hope to stir something in her.
I have my out-of-state interview tomorrow afternoon. I got confirmation today that I am the front runner for the job, but they will be interviewing one other person. I don't yet know if this is a good opportunity presenting itself, a distraction or bad temptation, a chance to ask for some kind of response/movement from my WAW, etc. But I scheduled a DB coaching appointment right afterwards to hash it out with Chuck.
My out-of-state job interview got postponed until Jan. 6 b/c of bad weather on the ground there. I'm glad on one hand to have more time, but I was fantasizing about getting the job offer and having a geographic escape hatch from my current surroundings. So I'm going to have to stay in this reality for a couple more weeks at least.
Another DB coaching session. Once again, Chuck kept me from following through on my plans to email one of WAW's friends and to send my WAW an email on our anniversary this Sunday. I already sent a card. Don't chase. Send a friendly but detached Christmas card in an few more days then do nothing. I still haven't been served with D papers. We talked through how I should respond if I am served soon.
Glad to have had this session. I keep cooking up stupid plans. I'm embarrassed to admit this, but a couple of days ago I had an entire heart-to-heart conversation planned out in my mind with my W's XH. I was going to somehow recruit him to reach out to my WAW and also gain some sort of visitation with my SS. Jeez Louise. Glad i have a few people i can reach out to get out of my fevered brain when it's obsessing about my sitch.
Sorry guys, but my anniversary being tomorrow is really hitting me hard. Please send some good thoughts my way.
We're with you. Stay strong. Do not buckle...
Just remember that even though you're not talking to her, she also knows what tomorrow is and she could be hurting just as much. Don't buckle like VAPO said! Stay in the fight. Marathon, not a sprint.
trust me she knows what tomorrow is. my XW is a FB junkie and she stayed off FB on the day of our anniversary as i'm sure she was afraid that i would post something (i didn't and wouldn't). take some time early in the day to revisit the R, look at pics, remember good times, have a good long cry and get it out. the rest of the day will get better after that. prayin for ya.
Thanks, guys. I really do hope she remembers our anniversary. She doesn't seem to have as many nostalgic feelings about things as I do. But she has to know, right? I hope she got my card.
I did just look at all of our wedding photos and cried like a baby. I love that woman so d@mn much.
The kids and I are going out of town tomorrow for Christmas and I'm looking forward to getting the he!! out of Dodge for a few days.
Thanks again for the pep talks and good thoughts.
Hi okjpc,
She knows it your anniversary of course. But do not expect that she will reach out to you. Not that she hates you or this date but she will think that she is encouraging you to go after her.
I found out that my H came to a restaurant very close to our house on our anniversary, and he ate alone there. Maybe he was hurting too, but he did not call or text that day.
By your comments I feel you need to start detaching a little every day. I know it is very difficult, I have been trying my best and it's not always possible. But after you practice more and more, you feel a little better every time you are not so obsessed with your sitch.
Do you have someone to talk to, someone you can call when things get really hard and you feel you are falling apart?
Try to have some fun with your kids. When I went away with my kids over the Thanksgiving weekend, I tried to set some time to think about my H. Sometimes I couldn't but some I did well. It helped me to enjoy my time with the kids and have some fun.
Hope you all have some rest a lots of fun.
Take care,
Pink
Thank you, Pink. Detachment is very elusive. I let go a bit, I cling a bit tighter, I let go a bit, etc. I'm realizing I had Christmas in my mind as some kind of arbitrary deadline for the S. Like if I don't hear from her by Christmas, it means the M is over. I don't know when or how that became fixed, but I'm seeing that today. Maybe from too many shows as a kid about Christmas miracles? Everything is possible on Christmas, right? Broken Rs get mended, families get reunited, people wake up to what is most important in their lives, it all turns out merry and bright.
My kids and I just arrived at my mom's house (in the city where I have the job possibility). I just printed out an AA schedule and may try to hit a meeting tonight and/or tomorrow morning. There should be plenty to do this week to keep my mind off the W. But the grief feels just below the skin and just behind the eyes today.
But thanks, Pink, for your straight talk and encouragement. I post here every day or two and don't get a lot of replies. I don't think about it much, but I do appreciate the feedback. And I'm gonna detach, detach, detach.
Bravo, Vapo, TLee, Pink,
Thanks again for the support. I think I got most of it out of my system. I went to an AA meeting last night and this morning. Did some prayer and felt some detachment again. This may obviously change again, but for now I'm feeling like I love my W much more than my desire to cling and control. I love her enough to completely take my hands off the sitch, give her and the M over to God. Period.
Wow, that's the spirit,
You know, this stuff really works, I have been through hell and back and there was times I tough it wouldn't be possible to get in a better place with all my tormented feelings.
But, the more I forced myself to believe in the whole detachment, becoming a better person w or w/t H and moving on with my life, getting some activities going, the more I am feeling happier.
I am far from a good job here, there is lots of things I want to fix on myself and I am actually working towards it. But I feel pretty proud for the things I have accomplished.
Today I can say that I really would like my M to be restore and it will still hurts if we D. But something inside me is changing and I feel that I will be OK it the D happen. I am starting feeling that I will be in peace with myself and move on.
LOVE IS ALSO TO SET IF FREE...
You are doing great, even if it feels you are always falling apart. Give yourself time, be patient with your pain and feelings. You are hurting now, grieving the loss. You feel guilt and angry, all these mixed up inside of you. It's not easy, so give yourself a break and don't beat yourself up.
Holidays are the worse. It brings a lot of memories and makes a mess in our brains and hearts.
My pastor was talking about the whole XMas miracles this past weekend and one thing he said is that we need to put not only our faith in God's hands, but also our pain, let him heal what is broken. You don't know the path he chose for you, but if it is beside your W, then he will heal your R.
You are luck to have parents to visit and spend this time together. It's probably wonderful for your kids. Enjoy it! You will still feel the pain inside, but put your best face and behavior forward and soon you will start believing you can do this more often.
Good Holidays!
Pink
Today I can say that I really would like my M to be restore and it will still hurts if we D. But something inside me is changing and I feel that I will be OK it the D happen. I am starting feeling that I will be in peace with myself and move on.
This is great. I get a glimpse of this now and then, but it's very fleeting at this point.
You are doing great, even if it feels you are always falling apart. Give yourself time, be patient with your pain and feelings. You are hurting now, grieving the loss. You feel guilt and angry, all these mixed up inside of you. It's not easy, so give yourself a break and don't beat yourself up.
Holidays are the worse. It brings a lot of memories and makes a mess in our brains and hearts.
Thanks, Pink. There are so many triggers around this time. Even here at my mom's house, it feels like my entire "family" (WAW + SS+ SD) should be here.
My pastor was talking about the whole XMas miracles this past weekend and one thing he said is that we need to put not only our faith in God's hands, but also our pain, let him heal what is broken. You don't know the path he chose for you, but if it is beside your W, then he will heal your R.
This is helpful too. I'm realizing that another reason I'm having trouble detaching is that it feels like I'm giving up any and all connections to my W. I haven't seen her in almost three months. There are very few traces of her in my house/life. I only have memories and emotions. Missing her, longing for her, &c. at least give me a feeling of having her in my life still. Detaching means that she's really gone. Yes, she is gone. Not detaching is denial. But when we met it felt like I had waited my whole life to be with her. All the visions we had of spending the rest of our lives together, watching kids and grandkids grow up, etc. are really hard to let go. And all those thoughts and fantasies now seem asinine and delusional. So on an emotional level, reality is hard to grasp/identify/reconcile.
I am praying multiple times a day, trying to turn the sitch/my W over to God. But I find that even in my most earnest prayers, there is a part of my mind that is hoping that that act of prayer is somehow connecting with my W and working on her in some way. So it's a compromised detachment.
There is a DB thread, by the way, on prayer. Have you seen it yet?
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2520083&page=1
For what it's worth, I woke up this morning feeling like my M is over. Went to an AA meeting and when I got back, I felt OK that it was done. Every day is a new spin on the Stages-of-Grief Roulette Wheel.
Stages of Grief Roulette Wheel - funny - made me smile. I know the feeling, never ending and nausea enducing isn't it? You just want to get off the wheel.
I feel ya honey. hang on. keep posting.
Thanks, NAJ. I've been reading your posts too. The emotions seem so random sometimes, no?
If anyone reads this tonight, I'd love to get people's takes. I haven't seen my WAW in nearly three months and my SS/SD in even longer than that. I sent a xmas card to W, but am contemplating sending a text to all three of them tomorrow just wishing them a Merry Christmas. Is that a bad idea? Will that piss her off if I go directly to the kids? Should I care at this point?
I would send a text - Merry Christmas. It could not hurt
Thank you, NAJ. I went ahead and sent a text to the three of them: 'Merry Christmas! Hope you're having a great day.'
I'm trying now to pretend like I'm not hoping to get a response. (This probably would be a good day to leave the phone in the other room.)
At any rate, Merry Christmas, and good luck to you today, NAJ.
Okjpc,
One thing I started to realize after starting to detach is that I can't control how my W feels. Especially by actions that are in general, kind. When she was moving out, it seemed to be that she was more mad since I was being nice to her.....oh well. That's her prerogative to feel that way. So, if you want to send a text message and don't have any ulterior motives, than do it.
Happy holidays.
I'm trying now to pretend like I'm not hoping to get a response. (This probably would be a good day to leave the phone in the other room.)
.
My W told me to send her pictures of the kids. Ironic thing was I did this at first right after she left and stopped when she never responded. Then she told me that she felt I was withholding kids things from her because I didnt send her stuff anymore. I've sent her about 10-15 over the last 1.5 months. Latest one was 2 nights ago, Santa picture with S5 and D4. I have yet to receive any response at all. No.....thanks, ok, stop sending pictures, why ar you doing this, Etc.
So, if you want to send a text message and don't have any ulterior motives, than do it.
You're right, man. We can't win, so we might as well try to do what's best and leave the results up to God or something else. I appreciate the feedback. Good luck to you over the holidays.
I hate to admit it, but I guess I really did think my W would respond to my text this morning. Or one of the stepkids would. I feel really deflated and tired of this sitch. If you aren't going to talk with me, then just file for the damned D, already!
I don't mean to get my hopes up, but I keep doing so. One of them has to miss me, right? I feel like such an idiot.
I'm going to take my kids to a movie in a couple of hours, and am looking forward to sitting in a dark room being passively entertained for a couple hours. But my PMA is tapped out. I just want to throw a fit.
It seems like my W has completely out-a$$holed me by this point, but feels totally justified in her actions. My ego doesn't like that.
I'm sorry for whining. I'm just feeling lower than I have in a while. I know it will get better. Guess I'm a bit caught off guard by how much it still hurts.
Don't take their reactions so literally. It's all a game. You go for the worst scenario: they don't miss me. The reality is likely very different. They might have had an argument because one if them wanted to reply. They may have seen it too late to respond (happens to me). They may have felt touched and W was afraid of giving you Faldo hopes by responding. More likely than not, they had some thoughts and motives for not responding, which you can't really guess. That's why you should have no expectations and detach.
Enjoy the movie with your kids,
Oh okjpc I feel you but opposite. My W has send me a few nice texts over the past couple days... yesterday a pic of my son with is baby cousin. This morning a "merry Christmas HP. Tell me did you get S11 a computer?" Later a "Hey how is the day going?" Then a "s11 says he wants to stay later with you tomorrow. Is X time OK to pick him up?"
So, different from you where you sent texts and feel stung for not getting a response, I get texts and respond to none of them and feel stung I get the texts from this woman in the horrible situation. Then I check if she sent more texts. Stupid, frustrating, and painful.
We have to let this all go. The advice is to assume nothing about them... just be in the present where you are now. I am lucky my S11 is here playing the game I got for him and excited to show it to me. It's like a movie so I watch with him. I forget for a few minutes. Then sometimes I check the phone for a text to ignore. See... I'm laughing at myself right now.
So, remember Dirty Harry. He comes home alone, opens a six pack, relaxes. Maybe not a happy man... but he doesn't go on and on about it... not even with himself. He has a purpose and just keeps going.
I'm sorry you're not getting the response you want. If I got a text I wanted to see... I would respond too. I see that is what I'm doing... still expecting something that it's best for me to accept won't come.
I'm with you okjpc. I feel sick and in pain right now with you.
Just keep going. Find something to enjoy right now and the pain will lessen.
I'm going to warm up lasagne for dinner and get back to my boy. Read something inspiring. Maybe see the Unbroken movie tomorrow. Anything to keep going.
Just keep going.
Mozza & HP,
Thank you both for your thoughts. And you're both absolutely right.
I haven't been sleeping well the past few nights, so I've been a little more vulnerable to negative thinking.
But tonight I did go to a movie with my kids, my sister and BIL and a cousin that I'm very close with who is visiting his parents from Europe right now. We had a good time. I brought the kids home, my mom got them into bed and I drove my cousin to his parents' house in a nearby town.
He has been going through a D for a little over a year and got so depressed a couple of months ago he attempted suicide. Luckily he survived (but has needed quite a few painful surgeries) and has woken up quite a bit. He is also starting to have second thoughts about his D. I talked about my sitch and recommended he read DR, which he said he would do. He's doing better these days with the PMA and GAL. It was really nice to see him and catch up with him. We've always been very close, but he's lived in the UK for 10 years, and I don't get to see him in person but every couple of years.
So I'm in a much better space right now. Will get up early to go to one last AA meeting here in town, visit my very elderly grandmother one more time then head home with the kids.
But again guys, thank you for weighing in and helping to keep me straight and focused.
By the way, I do think texting my W, SS and SD this morning was the right move. It felt right at the time and still does. I've been working very hard during this S to do the correct thing regardless of how I feel. And I do feel like no matter what happens (D, R, etc.), I have handled this sitch with dignity.
I really appreciate the DB community for sharing stories and guidance, keeping me from doing stupid stuff that my hurting heart and brain tell me to do, and at times, just allowing me to vent.
I keep cycling through the stages of grief, but seem to be moving more and more towards detaching.
Last night was a pretty good GAL night - spoke at my 12 Step meeting and admitted to a pretty large group for the first time about my S (I had kept this info pretty vague except with a handful of close friends). Then went out for a late night breakfast with a friend from the program.
This next part is a bit embarrassing to admit, but when I got home, by myself and in my home for the first time in days, I called a telephone psychic. I have never done that before and don't necessarily believe in that sort of stuff, but I was restless and desperate for a different perspective on my sitch. I only chose a psychic after doing quite a bit of research and I chose a woman who specializes in broken M readings. She said my WAW definitely loves me, but has no intention of coming back. She is undergoing some kind of psychological breakdown and there is nothing I can do. It will take years for my W to come to terms with and deal with her underlying issues, during which time she will stumble through a number of R's with different people. She is, the psychic said, in a R with someone new right now. She will not file for D anytime soon b/c she is too overwhelmed in her life and can't deal with the reality of a D; however, I shouldn't be encouraged by that. In fact, I should just grieve the loss of the R and move on. I should definitely take the out of town job and within 7 mos, I will be "back in my power".
This may all be total BS, but it did give me some comfort last night. I am tired of hoping against hope for my WAW to come back and/or talk with me. I want to declare this M dead. And I know it says in DB/DR that the old M is, in fact, dead. But I want to stop hoping for a new M with my W. The stress, the pain and disappointment are too much.
Today i have been feeling a physical withdrawal from my W. Like the connecting heart strings are being pulled from my body. It's a feeling beyond detachment - it's more like an extraction.
This probably sounds goofy and I'm sure I'll soon feel embarrassed that I wrote this, but I needed to get this down like a journal entry. Please feel free to break out the 2x4s!
OK, all you are going trough is perfectly normal. It does get better, a little bit each day...
Yep, I go through the same thing. Some days, it hits me about all of the stuff that she has done, the cover-ups for the A, the acting like everything was okay, the blaming me for everything, leaving the kids, buying a house, telling people lies about me and saying I've destroyed her self esteem, etc.
Then something happens, I see a sign. It could be a sermon at church, one of those "thoughts" that pops into your head when you're praying, a sappy comercial, a seemingly random interaction with somebody that says something that comforts me, or sometimes I just stare off in the distance and think. Then I'm back in, I get a renewed feeling that we had something special and W is lost right now.
This is normal. Detaching is not easy or pretty, but it seems to be essential. Why? Because it helps us be okay with the outcome regardless if it is with our W or not. I look at myself and know I'm going to be happy someday, with someone. I hope today that that someone is my W, but not the person my W is right now. The person I see now is not good, especially for our R. We need to be patient.
My mom's friend just got back together with her H after 5 years! They never got divorced, have been separated. Both had long term R in that time. Know what the W said to my mom? "I'm not sure what I was thinking when we S. He had his faults, but they were small. The challenges of life are still there, it wasn't the marriage causing it"
Now, I'm not sure if 5 years is in my cards, and I pray there would be resolution before that, but don't let go of hope. Remember, this is not in your hands right now. Have faith and relinquish as much of that interfering free will that you can and understand there is a plan in all of our sitchs, we are only seeing it one step at a time.
Hi Okjpc,
Wow, you got some nice words and wise words from MCS. I too had this feeling that detaching meant to give up. Well, it's not. Detaching is creating a life for yourself, having your own identity and individuality. It's breaking the physical and emotional dependency that we create once we get married.
So, once you understand that you can detach and still hope for your M to work, then you will feel better.
There is this path you create to have some fun, start new hobbies, meet new people, etc. But, in the same time you can think it's possible to reconcile.
Once it happen, you don't need to give up, but you will give yourself opportunities to live you life in full. As you do it, you won't feel so depressed, anxious and unhappy. You will start to smile more, feel more confident and the more you do, the better you feel.
Now, it doesn't mean you will just feel good like la la land, life is hard by itself, the pain of grieving the loss of your W will come and go. Every day it gets a little better.
About the XMas text, I think you did good. After years with someone it's polite to wish them a good time. She has her reasons do not answer.
Hey man, do you guys have some friends in common? There are any places you both used to go together? Did you text her asking if the kids could spend some time together, even if it is for a few hours just to catch up? These kids where growing together as a family and now it is all gone, maybe your W will think twice about it.
And by the way, the psychic is someone tempting, but I do not believe in these things, if it does not happen the way they said, then they are not held accountable.
Good luck, detach as much as you can because you will need your individuality even if you reconcile.
Hugs,
Pink
Ok,
I have been reading your sitch.
I would like to congratulate you on your long sobriety, and please do not negate this. It acknowledges all the work that you, your sponsors and higher power have done to get you to this space with two healthy functioning children. Know this and it will strengthen your soul and spirit as your higher power is not denied by you. Just say thank you Vanilla and all of the board members for acknowledging this, as yes, this has been an enormous challenge.
Let us discuss the most important step of all, the movement from step 2 to step 3. The release of self to the higher power, the loss of judgement and the acceptance of love. The channeling of the higher power as a conduit. I would ask you how far you have embraced this step as to do so means losing all judgement of others. If we have done so then we do not use bad descriptions of others. We do not have that right not because we are less than or insignificant but because that higher power does not permit it and we are connected to that power and so we have automatically excluded this completely from our lives. We do not judge nor try to control others, we let them be who they are, to find their own path. Doing this is the biggest release of all, our higher power guides us and allows us detachment. In working the 12 steps you have a great advantage and gift in your life.
If you read my thread you will know my H is compulsive and I work my own steps and it is very hard. There is the fellowship and the 12 steps these are the two forces of a compulsive program. You will also know how important I believe this to be for the loved one of a compulsive.
I evaluate judgement and the need for control in your writing, the desire to do X to get Y result. I invite you to discuss if this is correct and if so if this extends to your S and W.
For example do you send texts because you want to send them for the best motives without expectation of results? Do you buy presents, cards etc because that is what you wish? Do you want your two sets of kids to react because that is what they want for themselves, individually or separately?
Is there something else involved instead?
Did W ever go to Al Anon? I ask because being a compulsive is not just about managing the compulsion but all of the environment around it, and having knowledge at home of the struggle assists in creating a full recovery environment.
These are of course my own personal views as your issues are determined and also effected by your compulsion which is for life. I have observed that compulsives don't survive the early board posts on this site as they wish to resolve their M without dealing with their compulsion. This is not your position which I applaude and admire.
I hope you have stillness with your thoughts
Vanilla
Okjpc,
A couple things to remember.
What we are going through is not linear, but very mercurial.
For me expectations are very difficult. If I do or say something and tell myself I won’t have any expectations, I have just admitted I already have them. That is just me.
I see in you what I fight with a lot, needing outside reassurance. That is something we need to be able to find within ourselves. Easy? Nope.
One big thing I have come to accept and I say accept as I have always known this, yet always kept it buried, is there was NO way I could fix myself while remaining married. I’m not saying this is true of you or anyone else, but for me it was. Deep down I knew this and I forced into a locked box of denial. My point is really look deep within yourself, you alone hold the answers that you need.
This, for me is a pattern of my life. I don’t deal with anything until my hand is forced. Reactive instead of proactive.
I am making resolutions as I see them. I won’t make any on New Year’s Eve, if that makes sense.
I was kind of losing it there for a couple of days after Christmas, a week with family and a few days after my wedding anniversary. Also, I didn’t sleep well all that week. And had a couple of major crises pop up with the house. Well, after getting a full night’s rest, talking with some good friends and my DB coach, I feel more on track. Chuck put this DB detachment thing in some terms I could understand. Letting myself feel like I’m in limbo is a choice and it doesn’t make sense to let my W dictate the terms of my life any more. If I knew she were going to be hit by a bus tomorrow, what choices would I make for my life and happiness? He put it better than that, but it got through.
He also said the holidays are very stressful. They magnify whatever our mood is around our sitch, so if things have felt a bit hopeless, they’re going to feel REALLY hopeless. The moods of our WASs are intensified too, so therefore, we really shouldn’t put too much stock in the nature of our contact with them. If my WAW had responded to my Christmas card or text, it very well might have been the result of her amplified emotions and not an indication of any change in her. He usually advises clients to just “hold on” and “get through” the holidays.
So I feel more focused on the GAL activities I have been doing and need to do. For one, I need to figure out a babysitting arrangement so I can get out once a week or so. And I need to get outside more with and without the kids. Luckily my kids love to be outdoors and go on hikes.
I definitely am embarrassed by my recent posts and appreciate everyone who read and weighed in. I guess I’m not giving up on DB. In fact, I have a clearer sense of the differences between detachment, denial, PMA and hope.
By the way, JP, your post really hit me. I also don't deal with things until my hand is forced. I need to let that settle in a bit more...
Hi Ok - sounds like you're doing pretty well considering. A tough patch, but coming out of the other side. And no need to apologise about any posts.....we're family here!!
Sounds like some good advice from Chuck for you, and good that it helped. I agree about the holidays. Someone posted their aim was to 'get through it' and 'not make things worse' and I have kept that in mind. If you actually have some good times over the festive season, that's a real bonus too.
Glad you are doing okay now.....Toots x
Hi Okjpc,
Glad it is all coming together and you are able to understand better. You sound pretty good.
Great idea about the babysitter, it will make a huge difference to have some real people fun. And when I mean fun, it's not about girls or getting drunk. I did go out with friends to talk, for a coffee, to walk, to dance. It's amazing how much energy you gain from this.
You are a good man, keep the hard work too.
Hugs,
Pink
And this was awesome...GAL ON!!
Ok,
I have been reading your sitch.
I would like to congratulate you on your long sobriety, and please do not negate this. It acknowledges all the work that you, your sponsors and higher power have done to get you to this space with two healthy functioning children. Know this and it will strengthen your soul and spirit as your higher power is not denied by you. Just say thank you Vanilla and all of the board members for acknowledging this, as yes, this has been an enormous challenge.
Let us discuss the most important step of all, the movement from step 2 to step 3. The release of self to the higher power, the loss of judgement and the acceptance of love. The channeling of the higher power as a conduit. I would ask you how far you have embraced this step as to do so means losing all judgement of others. If we have done so then we do not use bad descriptions of others. We do not have that right not because we are less than or insignificant but because that higher power does not permit it and we are connected to that power and so we have automatically excluded this completely from our lives. We do not judge nor try to control others, we let them be who they are, to find their own path. Doing this is the biggest release of all, our higher power guides us and allows us detachment. In working the 12 steps you have a great advantage and gift in your life.
If you read my thread you will know my H is compulsive and I work my own steps and it is very hard. There is the fellowship and the 12 steps these are the two forces of a compulsive program. You will also know how important I believe this to be for the loved one of a compulsive.
I evaluate judgement and the need for control in your writing, the desire to do X to get Y result. I invite you to discuss if this is correct and if so if this extends to your S and W.
For example do you send texts because you want to send them for the best motives without expectation of results? Do you buy presents, cards etc because that is what you wish? Do you want your two sets of kids to react because that is what they want for themselves, individually or separately?
Is there something else involved instead?
Did W ever go to Al Anon? I ask because being a compulsive is not just about managing the compulsion but all of the environment around it, and having knowledge at home of the struggle assists in creating a full recovery environment.
These are of course my own personal views as your issues are determined and also effected by your compulsion which is for life. I have observed that compulsives don't survive the early board posts on this site as they wish to resolve their M without dealing with their compulsion. This is not your position which I applaude and admire.
I hope you have stillness with your thoughts
Vanilla
Thank you all for your support. I haven't been good at responding directly to everyone's comments, but I do absorb and appreciate them all. I went ahead and started a new thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...264#Post2522264