Last thread done-
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...776#Post2416776I went to the meetup last night, and wow, what an ego boost. I met a really cool woman around my age, who works as an interpreter for the federal courts, for the same law enforcement agency I used to work for. She was really interesting and intelligent and seemed really into me. I'm not sure if I normally would have been attracted to her, but she had lots of personality. She also had her mom along, who asked me questions and then even asked me to come to dinner as they departed mid meetup when we got downtown. I graciously declined and opted to stay with the meetup group, but she told me she wanted to see me again.
I then got talking to another woman at the meetup who is a physician's assistant in the Air Force at a base right near my house. She was very intelligent, and laughed at my corny jokes. She also called me out on things, but not in a bad way. We all ended up going to a great burger joint at the end of the night, and had some great burgers and a jovial time.
It was such a refreshing evening. GAL sure does help the psyche. Then I watched church this morning online however, and was a blubbering crying mess. Talk about a rollercoaster of emotions. I also woke up to two messages from girls on some dating sites I joined. Things seem to be pointing in a positive direction socially. I'm just practicing what I've learned here on asking questions, listening and validating when possible even with people that aren't W. What skills to have obtained!
Anyway, I'm working out today, going to wash/wax the car since it's been months since that has been done last. One more day of work and then I have two days off while my parents arrive! We are planning to go to a Christmas Eve service, and actually going on a Christmas morning hike with my favorite meetup group. It is an alternative Christmas activity, I know I will probably be emotional that day. But I'll be taking the family and dog Kahlua to that hike and it'll be great!
I will keep all of my DB family in my prayers as we all navigate through the holidays with torn up emotions! Thank you for all your love and support, even though we have never met!
I hope you have a lovely, loving time with your family.
Have a great holiday!
Its funny you say you're using your new skills with the new ladies you are meeting.... I sometimes think if I dont start using what ive learned I will forget it all. That must be nice to have that boost of someone being interested in you, but i think its good you've declined for now. I dont know what i'd do if someone approached me, probably cry lol.
Hey Mimi,
Yeah, I'm really torn on whether to pursue hanging out with any of them or not. I met another girl today that is in dental school and chatted with her for awhile. I complimented her, told her how delightful it was to chat, and said we should go to the dueling piano bar in town sometime that we got talking about. I had asked her a bunch of open ended questions and acknowledged what she had said and asked follow-ups on things. Wow everything really worked, without asking, she gave me her number.
I am kind of like the dog chasing trucks right now, I wouldn't know what to do with them if I caught them. It's just interesting to talk to other women at this point, seeing what I have been doing wrong for a long time.
Anyway, I hope you've got plans for Christmas and that you're staying busy right now! I'm sure there are lots of people interested in you, or would be if they knew what we get to see in terms of your personal growth here.
Just got the following email from the W- will definitely need your help on how to respond.
"I am surprised you were not more concerned about my safety with the car breaking down on me. It has left me in a quite a predicament considering I drive at least 50 miles a day to and from work.
You're tone regarding the house came off as condescending, I hope it was not meant that way. I have worked tirelessly to figure out the best way to split up our finances and assets. Your income potential is much greater than mine and will continue to grow in that manner. I am not asking for any spousal support or pushing to get any more than what I will need to survive on a Seaworld salary. I am having to look into getting a second job now due to needing a car much sooner than expected. I was hoping the Focus would last a few more months, not less than a week. You keeping your financial assets (401K, IRA, and Roth) and me refinancing the house was the best way to split everything. This will also give me a start at rebuilding my life on a much smaller income.
My attorney will be sending the final decree to your attorney today for review. I have looked over it many times and sought legal and Christian counsel throughout this whole process. Please know I have done everything I can to make this an appropriate division, including accomodating all of your requests in this process (more time in signing the original petition, communicating with each other versus through attorneys, switching cars prior to final decree, and remaining civil throughout).
It saddens me that all of this is happening throughout the holidays and taking away from the celebration of this season. I would like to have things in order and finalized before the end of the year so we can both have a fresh start in 2014.
She's responding from an emotional place. Some WASs still believe the person they're Ding should continue to act like a spouse in certain circumstances. She certainly got a few jabs in there, didn't she? I know that hurts.
The D was her choice.
I see no questions that require a response. What are you thinking you want to say?
She's responding from an emotional place. Some WASs still believe the person they're Ding should continue to act like a spouse in certain circumstances. She certainly got a few jabs in there, didn't she? I know that hurts.
The D was her choice.
I see no questions that require a response. What are you thinking you want to say?
What I want to say back is this-
You sent me a brutally honest email, and I guess now it’s my turn.
You left me and filed for divorce, we are not married anymore, I don’t have to be concerned for your safety. Your predicament regarding an inoperable vehicle is your problem.
You have the same earning potential as I do, you CHOOSE to work at a low-paying job. That’s your prerogative. We both have Bachelor Degree’s in Liberal Arts.
You are not eligible for spousal support as we were not together for over 10 years.
You have decided on division of assets without talking to me how to divide anything? While I appreciate your diligence and hardwork, you never once asked for my thoughts on how to divide things.
There is no way we are near a final decree, WE have not decided on anything. You decided on everything and what was “best financially” for both of us, What would your reaction have been if I had done the same and just sent you what I decided on a division of property?
But of course I wont send that.
give it 48 hours, see how you feel.
I'll bet it felt good to get that out tho, huh?
I see no questions that require a response.
Me neither! (Still liked yours
)
All the best!
F
give it 48 hours, see how you feel.
I'll bet it felt good to get that out tho, huh?
It absolutely did! Haha!
I am sort of speechless, I will have to see what the divorce decree says. We did not decide on any furniture, property, anything. She refused to talk about any of it and just decides? Unbelievable!
BE MY HUSBAND BUT DONT BE MY HUSBAND in the same email.
I would absolutely cherish your responses on how to respond to this email. I do not plan to answer for days. I am pretty much just simmering, please lend me your wisdom folks.
I think your response is perfect if you want to end this relationship and be clear about exactly what she can and can't expect from you.
Otherwise, your response is probably going to require some emotional empathy…but that doesn't mean she gets to demand anything you don't owe her.
My attorney will be sending the final decree to your attorney today for review.
I agree with the others. Nothing here to reply to. If you feel you need to acknowledge her spew, then just reply with a friendly thanks for the heads up and Merry Christmas to you
Wow, she is quite the drama queen. She seems to be treading on your good will and sees herself as the victim here. Nothing you can do or say will sway her from seeing you as the big bad wolf taking advantage of little red.
Not to attempt any mind reading of her missle I would say her 'final decree' is likely her version of a settlement offer she thinks is fair. You can spend lots to go back and forth, or let the court decide.
Sorry to see you here. Time to be firm and stand for you.
Wishing you the best and Merry Christmas
So I ended up writing back to her-
Dear W,
Thanks for the heads up regarding the paperwork. I hope you and your family have a wonderful Christmas and New Year's.
Respectfully,
H
Hope the next few days will be peaceful for you K!
Hope the next few days will be peaceful for you K!
Thanks Mimi, you as well! You'll be in my thoughts and prayers as well as the other DB'ers.
I thnk what you wrote was just right.
Happy Christmas.
I couldn't sleep at all last night, went to the couch at 11:30, "slept" until 3. Awesome. When I don't sleep, I am much more emotional and I tend to get sick. Anyway, enough negativity.
I tried to write out all my thoughts. I am at the point where I have let her try and run things and be the victim long enough. It's not getting me anywhere. I am going to 180 on being so passive to the whole situation. Time for Dobson some tough love for the old WAW. Here's what I have written out- tough love or too much?
"Dear W,
I decided to wait until after Christmas to respond to the issues you raised so that you could enjoy your holiday. Unfortunately, you did not afford me the same opportunity. You sent me this email the day before Christmas Eve and definitely got some good jabs in there. I am trying to come at this from an objective standpoint as possible after my emotions settled down from reading through it initially.
Regarding your surprise at me not being more concerned for your safety, I am perplexed by why you are surprised at that. While I was concerned for your safety, you said right in the email you took care of everything and were safe. You mentioned calling someone else, getting the car towed, etc. You did not reach out to me for help, I think your actions during that crisis speak for themselves much louder than your words after the fact. Also, in this same email where you want me to be concerned for your safety, you tell me you want the divorce finalized in 8 days. Am I supposed to feel guilty that your car broke down? I had nothing to do with whatever happened to the car. It ran fine for me since September 9th when you had to put in a new battery. While I understand the car breaking down leaves you in an less than ideal situation, it is a situation you have chosen. There is also wonderful insurance on the Focus that covers a rental car. I am not sure what you expect of me regarding the car situation. It is your vehicle from when you were 16 years old, therefore it is your responsibility. No one is forcing you to keep the house and refinance it in your name, you are choosing to do that. You weighed options and chose to go that route, even though it may be difficult for you financially.
My tone regarding the house questions was not condescending at all. We have put over $21,000 worth of renovations into the house here. I also put down $18,000 on the first house in El Cajon, in May 2010 before we were even engaged. I asked how any sale of the house here would be a wash after expenses. Even if we sold the house for what we bought it for ($123,000) there would still be between $20k-40k depending on sale price in equity to divide. This would allow both of us to take equity from the house and go buy/rent whatever it is our heart's desire. By you leaving me only retirement accounts, I have no cash down payment to go purchase a home, even though the majority of the equity in the house was a result of my purchase of the home in California.
How did you come to the conclusion that without talking to me, you could just decide on the division of property and right up a final divorce decree? Where was the effective communication you said you wanted to have in your initial hand written letter the night you served me in the driveway? You refused to answer calls or call me back when I left voicemails. You also took days in-between getting back to me. That is not my idea of effective communication.
I hear you saying you worked tirelessly to divide finances, you also did so without any input from me. What if I had decided what was best for you without talking or asking you anything and sent over a final decree for your review the day before Christmas and gave you an arbitrary 7 day deadline to get things finalized? What would your reaction have been? This is definitely not using the rule of both win.
Regarding income potential, we both have the same earning potential. We both have Bachelor Degrees in Liberal Arts. You choose to work at a position that does not pay much because it is what you love to do. You had a job in San Diego that paid more than I make now. Your occupation is a decision you made. Please do not try to put that decision on me or make me feel guilty that you will have to get a second job. You chose that job, you chose to try and keep the house, and you chose to get divorced.
Regarding spousal support, my understanding is you are not eligible for it. Texas law states that -
"Texas law outlines two instances in which the court can award spousal maintenance. It will award alimony when one spouse was convicted of a crime considered an act of family violence either during the time the divorce was pending or within two years of filing. In the second instance, the marriage must have lasted 10 years or longer"
I have not received or read through your proposed settlement yet. But I do ask that prior to Tuesday, December 31st 2013 you return to me the following items that are my sole and separate property that are still at your parents house. Please leave them in the garage. I will have company in town so please do not disturb the occupants of the house. There are additional Christmas cards for you that came to the house as well.
-Wyland Giclee Painting "In the Company of Dolphins" purchased in Feb 2010 and paid off in Jan 2011, you can keep the complimentary print that I gave you as a gift
- Sunset painting with the dock/island I bought at the county fair
- All of my ammunition issued by the BP
Thank you.
Respectfully,
H
Thanks for your thoughts/stopping by, I hope you all have a Merry Christmas Eve/Day!
I thnk what you wrote was just right.
Happy Christmas.
Thanks labug! You'll have to rescind that statement when you read through the new "what I want to say" email ; )
Merry Christmas to you too!
I would have written something very similar.
Got it out of my system and deleted it.
Here's what I see in your latest email, you're hurting, hurting bad so you want to lash out and hurt her. She fired a salvo with her emotional P/A jabs and now you return fire.
When you really think about, is that what you want? This is how people end up in the long, drawn out back and forth or ending a marriage. The need to have the last word, to trade hurt for hurt, jab for jab.
How do you think this letter is going to help you other than the momentary, fleeting feeling of "I showed her!"?
Emotions come and go, not all of them need be acted on. You probably drank your uncomfortable emotions away for a long time and now, here they are. When I was depressed I didn't feel a lot of emotion. Then as my depression lessened they all came back. It was scary and painful. I had to learn to manage them.
I noticed that I said sit on the other response for 48 hours but you had to send something that day.
If you are hurting and want her to know that, I'd drop the P/A stuff and just say, "I'm hurting so bad, I can't stand it. I want to be an honorable man and act with dignity but right now I'm finding that very difficult. Let's let the attys handle this from here."
And remember D and property settlements are negotiation and that needs to start somewhere.
Enjoy your Christmas with your family. No plotting revenge over the holidays. ((( )))
I would have written something very similar.
Got it out of my system and deleted it.
Here's what I see in your latest email, you're hurting, hurting bad so you want to lash out and hurt her. She fired a salvo with her emotional P/A jabs and now you return fire.
When you really think about, is that what you want? This is how people end up in the long, drawn out back and forth or ending a marriage. The need to have the last word, to trade hurt for hurt, jab for jab.
How do you think this letter is going to help you other than the momentary, fleeting feeling of "I showed her!"?
Emotions come and go, not all of them need be acted on. You probably drank your uncomfortable emotions away for a long time and now, here they are. When I was depressed I didn't feel a lot of emotion. Then as my depression lessened they all came back. It was scary and painful. I had to learn to manage them.
I noticed that I said sit on the other response for 48 hours but you had to send something that day.
If you are hurting and want her to know that, I'd drop the P/A stuff and just say, "I'm hurting so bad, I can't stand it. I want to be an honorable man and act with dignity but right now I'm finding that very difficult. Let's let the attys handle this from here."
And remember D and property settlements are negotiation and that needs to start somewhere.
Enjoy your Christmas with your family. No plotting revenge over the holidays. ((( )))
Thanks for your wisdom, I know all of it needs to be said, but it will fall on deaf ears. I will most likely end up either a) not replying or b) replying with something very short and sweet that allows me to retain class dignity and honor along the lines of what you wrote.
I did use to drink all this away, it made me numb. Still sober though today.
I know I couldn't wait to reply for 48 hours, but ancient warrior gave me a simple way to respond not out of anger/spite, so I rolled with it.
Because of my propensity to fly off the handle and get a little hit off the feeling you get from a "so there" response, I've learned to live with my emotions, ride them out, sit with them, whatever works. It's hard work in the beginning. I'll write whatever I think needs to be said, put it away for a day or 2 and then read it again.
Most often my thoughts upon the rereading are "WTH was I thinking???"
The other important piece here is you aren't in control of you. She's controlling you right now. Every thing she says that strikes you the wrong way, you're ready to go to battle. You're constantly reacting.
Everything is not worth a full-on battle, learn to live with your emotions and you'll be in control of you not continuously reacting to every slight, real or imagined.
You'll be a better communicator, a better friend, you'll get your needs met more often and you'll be a better partner.
A favorite teaching:
"Those events and people in our lives who trigger our unresolved issues could be regarded as good news. We don’t have to go hunting for anything. We don’t need to try to create situations in which we reach our limit. They occur all by themselves, with clockwork regularity. Each day, we’re given many opportunities to open up or shut down. The most precious opportunity presents itself when we come to the place where we think we can’t handle whatever is happening. It’s too much. It’s gone too far. We feel bad about ourselves. There’s no way we can manipulate the situation to make ourselves come out looking good. No matter how hard we try, it just won’t work. Basically, life has just nailed us...
Most of us do not take these situations as teachings. We automatically hate them. We run like crazy. We use all kinds of ways to escape -- all addictions stem from this moment when we meet our edge and we just can't stand it. We feel we have to soften it, pad it with something, and we become addicted to whatever it is that seems to ease the pain.”Pema Chodron
Well, parents arrived and we got home and settled in. We went and got some groceries and such. I wanted to go to the 3:30 Christmas Eve service, but ended up deciding on the 5:00 pm service, planned to do dinner afterward.
Well, things got interesting when we got to church. Mind you there were 4 services today, so the chance of running into anyone was already 25%. Plus factor in arrival times, I parked in the lot I normally don't park in. We were walking toward the building and who drives right by us? W. She looked right at my family and I. So that was a shocker.
The church was already in overflow mode, so we decided to go to dinner then instead, and come back for a later service instead. We went to dinner and then went back for the last service. We waited til things cleared out for the most part and were on the opposite parking lot from where we saw W go. Who walks by me? W's best friend from work. So I just said "Hello Friend!" and she gave me a pretty nasty "Hey." in response. I wonder what kind of gnarly stories are swirling.
Church was very difficult. I broke down the entire service just bawling. I attribute most of this to lack of sleep last night. But it was just pretty much awful. Sister tried to comfort me as much as she could, but me crying made her cry. I feel like I'm ruining their holiday.
We are going on a Christmas hike tomorrow and I'm taking the beast known as Kahlua. That should be fun!
Merry Christmas all.
Sheesh...reading that that you all were crying almost made me cry.
Try to think often on the blessings you have in your life right now and hopefully that will brighten up the rest of the holiday for you.
A far as the letter....honestly i think what you sent her (basically ignoring her jabs and getting straight to the point and ending w/ the happy holidays) stings much more and causes one to take note far more than sharing your feelings and rebuttling piece by piece. And your long letter was not from the school of Dobson....it was much more Kdog inspired then what Dobson suggests in "Tough Love".
Hope you are able to sleep better tonight!
Thanks Mimi, I already deleted that draft of the long email I wrote out. At the end of the day, we'll be just as divorced either way.
I was able to sleep better last night, thank you!
When you say what I did send stings more and causes her to take note more, can you explain what you mean by that? I perceive it as I'm showing her I'm the bigger person and not fighting her in the trenches, but I don't want to misinterpret.
Thanks, I hope you have a good day with your dog!
I was speaking from the point of view of you responding to her jabs with your own thoughts and opinions on what happened etc...in hopes that some impact will be made on her (which could simply be the hope of her gaining clarity/understanding or for her to feel the hurt you feel from her decision to leave).
In my opinion the short response sent would make more impact than the long letter would have.
I dont know what she thought about it your reponse... but if she gathers anything negative from it (Just as she was "surprised" at your "lack" of concern for her car breaking down) hopefully she will start to see the negativity is coming from within and not from you Where as sending the long letter gives definite amunition/reason for her to continue to respond from a place of hurt as it drags up those emotions.
For me personally stepping in her shoes, (and totally assuming! ), the short response would sting a bit. Because I feel she is wanting that big "reaction" from you for whatever reason....and shes probably confused as to why she doesnt have the power over you emotions anymore...thus probably causing her to wonder what is really going on in your head and may in turn cause more self introspection for her. Which would be positives in my opinion.
Thanks for thoroughly explaining Mimi, I really appreciate it!
So even though she tells me she does not feel comfortable talking about her emotions or anything to me, she keeps stating emotions about things. It seems pretty clear to me she wants me to hurt like she is. I mean, I am hurting, I tried to tell her that, and she stomped on me.
So I see your point about my brevity in response. It could sting more because I didn't give her any rebuttals or anything, and she can't fire more shots really based on what I sent. Makes sense.
As far as introspection for her, I really doubt that's happened yet, she is in full on "H is the devil mode." Her friend that I saw last night was at our house playing with our dog a couple days before BD. And last night her perfunctory "hey." was said with venom behind it. I wonder what kind stories are going around regarding me. I'm sure they're wonderful!
Anyway, family and I went on a 3.5 mile hiking meetup this morning, it was great. Saw some new ladies that came over to meet my dog, and she didn't eat them, so that's a good sign!
I hope you have a great rest of the day! Give your dog a treat from me!
K-love's word of the day really helps me out. Today's word follows, I'll try to keep it in mind in the coming weeks. Perhaps it will help you too.
Don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them.
Ephesians 4:29
I want to be an encourager to those around me, not a negative Nancy.
Thanks for sharing. Ive come across that scripture in the last few months and it helped me to see I do speak negatively a lot but I do it through jokes/sarcasm which usually people know find my "humor" funny.... but now I see I usually looked for the negative first ....and that was not good for my relationship. So I am trying to learn to "speak life" and break the habit of looking a why I can't/shouldnt/dont want to and see why I should/why it's good....Speaking positively alone could have changed my entire marriage. But I didnt even realize I was so negative.....I thought of it more being "realistic"....boy do I know better now.
So that's a great thing you shared there.
Enjoy this day!
Thanks Mimi, I was the king of sarcasm before. I know that even things I said in jest had a bit of truth behind them, and I said them with a "just kidding" at the end, but really meant them.
That's something I have been working on as well, building others up instead of making jokes at their expense for everyone to laugh at. I'm not perfect at it, but much improved.
There is a song "Speak life" that plays on K-love, I forget who sings it, have you heard it?
Hmm, is this it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rK6O0YtBRY‎
or was it more singing/choir music?
It's by TobyMac- lyrics to follow, I'm at work so couldnt check out the youtube.
TobyMac-Speaklife
Some days, life feels perfect.
Other days it just ain't workin.
The good, the bad, the right, the wrong
And everything in between.
Though it's crazy, amazing
We can turn a heart with the words we say.
Mountains crumble with every syllable.
Hope can live or die
So speak Life, speak Life.
To the deadest darkest night.
Speak life, speak Life.
When the sun won't shine and you don't know why.
Look into the eyes of the brokenhearted;
Watch them come alive as soon as you speak hope,
You speak love, you speak...
You speak Life, (oh oh oh oh oh oh) You speak Life. (oh oh oh oh oh oh)
Some days the tongue gets twisted;
Other days my thoughts just fall apart.
I do, I don't, I will, I won't,
It's like I'm drowning in the deep.
Well it's crazy to imagine,
Words from our lips as the arms of compassion,
Mountains crumble with every syllable.
Hope can live or die.
So speak Life, speak Life.
To the deadest darkest night.
Speak life, speak Life.
When the sun won't shine and you don't know why.
Look into the eyes of the brokenhearted;
Watch them come alive as soon as you speak hope,
You speak love, you speak...
You speak Life, (oh oh oh oh oh oh) You speak Life. (oh oh oh oh oh oh)
Lift your head a little higher,
Spread the love like fire,
Hope will fall like rain,
When you speak life with the words you say.
Raise your thoughts a little higher,
Use your words to inspire,
Joy will fall like rain,
When you speak life with the things you say.
Lift your head a little higher,
Spread the love like fire,
Hope will fall like rain,
When you speak life with the words you say.
So speak Life, speak Life.
To the deadest darkest night.
Speak life, speak Life.
When the sun won't shine and you don't know why.
Look into the eyes of the brokenhearted;
Watch them come alive as soon as you speak hope,
You speak love, you speak...
You speak Life, (oh oh oh oh oh oh) You speak Life. (oh oh oh oh oh oh)
You speak Life, (oh oh oh oh oh oh) You speak Life. (oh oh oh oh oh oh)
Some days life feels perfect.
Her friend that I saw last night was at our house playing with our dog a couple days before BD. And last night her perfunctory "hey." was said with venom behind it. I wonder what kind stories are going around regarding me. I'm sure they're wonderful! wink
When we try to make up stories about what others are thinking we're often wrong. In my sitch I know that my friends (and I am grateful to have an amazing group of friends of all ages)didn't say anything ugly about H. They were honest with me but no one was advising me to do anything mean or hurtful. We didn't sit around and talk about him as if he were the devil. My friends were really just listening to me and supporting me through a very tough time. I was much more vocal than they were.
Would my friends have been uncomfortable had they run into him somewhere? Probably. It's a tough position for people who know both people in a couple on the rocks.
When we assume what's going on it colors your interactions. You don't know what's happening with her friends so you might as well think it's neutral and believe that this is tough for everyone.
Thanks for that feedback labug, I acted as if everything was okay, and addressed her friend by name and was cheerful.
I know I'm not a good mindreader.
I got an email from W last night with the dental receipts, no jabs or emotion in this one that she sent. I replied as follows-
"Good morning W,
Thank you for getting those receipts to me. I will need the same kind of breakdown for that one ($40) as you provided for the one in April please (no rush.) I submitted a reimbursement request to the HSA, it will take awhile before the money finds its way into the joint account due to the holidays.
Respectfully,
H"
I then remembered I never got all the important documents from her computer or her parents computer, so I sent her the following email as well.
"Hey W,
When you get a chance, can you please email over all my important documents from your laptop and your parents desktop?
From your laptop- things like tax returns, resumes, cover letters, those sorts of things
From your parents desktop- paycheck stubs from the Border Patrol, and documents that I saved to the desktop
I trust your judgment on what's important to send to me and what's not important as I cannot remember everything that is on each computer.
Once they are sent over, feel free to erase the files. Thank you.
Respectfully,
H"
How'd I do?
I'll take the lack of responses as I did well : )
Working 8 hours today, then hitting up church with the family this evening. We're planning on going to see The Hobbit tomorrow in IMAX 3D, I love that theater.
Hoping for a good, drama free weekend, without any contact from W.
Although I was confused as to why you had stuff on your IL's computer.
Did you think about offering to do it yourself but vetoed that?
We lived with them for a few months when we moved here. They gave us our own login on their desktop, I had saved a bunch of documents on there for our home closing.
I did not in any way, shape or form think of requesting to get them myself from either her or the IL computer. W put in the original D paperwork that I was to stay away from their home, her place of employment and that she would be the only one allowed to use the nice car. I'm really surpised there wasn't a restraining order attached! They had me made out to be a monster.
That explains why you didn't offer.
I like that you have adopted the Class Honor and Dignity mantra. It is serving you well.
I can also relate to the use of sarcasm said in jest whilst really just wanted to give someone a smack verbally...
I think you are dealing with this sitch well.
Thanks MrCas, I appreciate you checking in. I know that it will be difficult to maintain the mantra moving forward, because things will most likely get ugly as we fight over the house that she thinks she can push me out of. Trying to weigh whether it's worth it to fight, or buy another place or what.
WAW is being very reasonable for a change, and actually sent the following email regarding sending me the computer files-
Of course. I understand wanting those types of documents. Is there another way besides emailing all of them that you would feel comfortable with? I just don't know how secure that would be with all the information.
I can take the external hard drive and upload the documents you don't have and get the others from my parents computer and then return it. Would that work?
If there is a specific document you would like sooner, let me know and I'll send it."
I do not want to look through our portable hard drive, filled with pictures and such. So I opted for the following-
"Good morning W
Thanks for thinking of the security aspect, it really didn't even cross my mind, but now that I thought about your plan, it definitely is much smarter. There are no specific documents I need right now, thanks for asking about that as well. The hard drive was a good idea, it made me think of a flash drive to put the files on rather than the hard drive. The files should not be too big at all. If you could buy a flash drive to put the files on I'll reimburse you. Or I can pick one up and mail it to you along with your mail in the garage.
With respect,
H"
I know these exchanges seem trivial and most likely are, but I still want to make sure I'm doing them right.
I'm working today, but will most likely get her proposed settlement sometime this week. I'm really dreading getting it, the anticipation is bad, I'm back to having trouble sleeping.
I'll be coming here to get advice on how to proceed once I get the documents.
Although it's very difficult, try to keep your emotions in check as this becomes the business side of marriage. The emotional side of your marriage is already severed, this is only the dividing of the pots and pans.
Don't be offended with the first proposal. That's all it is, a place to start. Don't take it personally, you have the power to keep that from happening.
Know who you want to be through this and your bottom line.
Take responsibility for your words and actions. Avoid the "she did x, so I had to do y" victim position.
Have you heard of the Drama Triangle? There's a lot about it on the web, google Lynn Forrest 3 faces of victimhood.
You're going to do fine K. Doesn't mean it's not going to be painful but you'll be OK and eventually better than OK and then maybe even better than you've ever thought possible.
Everything we encounter in life can teach us something. We can either cover our ears, stomp our feet and scream NO NO NO or we can relax into it and believe that this will not kill us, it will be painful but we need to be right here for some reason.
At the other end is something better because you will be better.
LAB... You said the words that I had in my mind. This just the business end of this. This is the concept I had chosen to deal with my own ongoing D. I may think the offers are silly but I don't let it affect my mood.
KD... You will get through this. You have done well so far and believe you will continue to do so. Let us know what you might need help with.
Thanks for the kind words, I will check out that concept labug, nothing received today, the wait continues, I may wait until after my birthday Jan 2 to do anything.
Happy New Year all!
I spent my first waking moments of 2014 removing W from my health benefits per her request in an email from a few weeks ago. She said starting Jan 1 she would have her own coverage, so I removed her based on that request in writing.
This allowed me to start out 2014 by doing a $5500 Roth conversion, withholding tax through payroll deduction for what I was paying for her benefits, I otherwise probably wouldn't have been able to do this.
My parents and I are heading to Austin for the day to visit one of my best friends from college, cook out and watch bowl games with he and his girlfriend. It should be a stellar time. I'm trying to remain positive.
Also, tomorrow is my birthday. I know, almost a New Year's baby, I haven't heard that one before! I have to work tomorrow, but that's fine, I'm hoping that people will be into discussing developing financial plans now that the calendar has changed and the holidays are behind us.
I wish all of you a wonderful start to 2014, vow to make yourself awesome this year!
Happy new year! Have a wonderful birthday K!
Got an email from W last night- seems trivial to me, just wanted to make sure there's nothing in here I need to address or respond to. She always seems to complain about something in her emails, whether that is her lack of money, or in this one, lack of energy.
She wrote- "Are there documents on the hard drive that I should have? Are some of the tax documents only on the hard drive? If yes, I would still like to go the route of the hard drive that way I can get the documents I need at the same time. If no, please buy a flash drive and I will upload the documents and get it back to you. You can either mail it with the other mail, or put it In the garage and I'll pick it up. I'm so exhausted after work and it already takes me an hour to get home, so stopping by the house to get a Christmas letter hasn't been a big priority knowing that it adds at least another 30 minutes. It's not that I don't care about the mail... Just haven't had the energy."
All I am planning to write back is- "I'm not sure what's on the hard drive, it'll be in the garage for you with the mail."
Should I address anything else?
Minister Max Lucado does a series called Upwords that get emailed to me daily. I thought today's was pretty poignant for both WAW and LBS'. Check it out-
Face to Face With Our Past
All of us at one time or another come face to face with our past. And it’s always an awkward encounter. When our sins catch up with us we can do one of two things: run or wrestle.
Many choose to run. They brush it off with a shrug of rationalization. “I was a victim of circumstances.” Or, “It was his fault.” The problem with this escape is it’s no escape at all. It’s only a shallow camouflage.
The best way to deal with our past is to roll up our sleeves, and face it head on. No more buck-passing or scapegoating. No more glossing over or covering up. No more games.
We need a confrontation with our Master, eyeball to eyeball, and be reminded that left alone we fall. If you wonder if you’ve gone too long to change, take courage. No man is too bad for God!
short and to the point. sounds great.
Great message. Thank you for sharing that.
I think what you posted regarding you W is fine. You could drop it off for her to save the trip. A random act of kindness never hurt.
Great message. Thank you for sharing that.
I think what you posted regarding you W is fine. You could drop it off for her to save the trip. A random act of kindness never hurt.
I would offer to do that, but she lives with her parents, and in her initial paperwork they requested/demanded that I stay away from their house.
I think your email was just right.
The other inspirational message was also pretty to the point, don't take things personally. Most of us are reacting to hurts that happened long ago.
That's why it's so important to keep your focus on you.
Kdogs, thank you for sharing that...It pretty much sums up where we are as a society today.... Charlie Daniels has a song with the following in it, "People done put their Bibles away and are living by the law of the jungle instead of the law of the land"....
Just hang in there K, you are getting excellent advice and counsel. There is nothing easy about any of this, keep moving forward and in time you will find things really do get easier..............
K could you send the flash drive in the mail to her?
That's unfortunate she has the order against you....I am glad you've done nothing but been a class act in your sitch, thus showing that order was unnecessary.
She actually already responded to me and did wish me a happy birthday from her and her family. That's interesting.
She also said she was going to stop by today to get the mail and stuff. I told her I have company in town and she may want to wait until after the weekend. I don't want things to be awkward for my family or for her as my family will be here if she were to stop by.
I did thank her and asked her to thank her family for me.
K could you send the flash drive in the mail to her?
That's unfortunate she has the order against you....I am glad you've done nothing but been a class act in your sitch, thus showing that order was unnecessary.
The external hard drive is a big thing, 1 TB of storage space, it weighs a bit too, easier for her to pickup than mail.
And they don't have a restraining order or anything formally, but they requested in her initial dissolution of marriage paperwork that I stay away from their house. I haven't been within 20 miles of their place since BD.
A random act of kindness never hurt.
I have done many random acts of kindness, often with no acknowledgement from her.
I did give her half of that coupon book I got, because there was no way I would ever use them all, they were two identical books. Her brother had bought one a previous year and taken us places with the coupons so it was sort of payback.
I put much love into her car before I gave it back to her. I had nothing to do with it breaking down on her.
I also did send her a Christmas card, thanking her for giving me back my car in such good condition. It was a funny card with a wiseman saying he brought so much myrh because he had a groupon. W loves groupon and would buy them just cuz they were good deals. In the card, I thanked her, and sent her a $50 gift card we had never used to cheesecake factory. I kept the other half of the gift cards, so it was really just dividing gift cards.
In her parents card, I thanked them for their love and support earlier in the year (slight exaggeration) and for helping me to find my way back to my faith when I was so lost. They really were important in that regard. I didn't hear anything from them, not that I expected to either.
Anyway, sort of regret some of my random acts of kindness, because I think she perceives my kindness as weakness.
I think your email was fine and so was your follow up. Notice the small things. She responded to what you did in a "positive manner" Do what works.
I think your email was fine and so was your follow up. Notice the small things. She responded to what you did in a "positive manner" Do what works.
Speaking of which- she sent back this email when I warned her about company being in town.
"Okay. I won't be out this way on my weekend. So I'll try to stop by next Wednesday to pick up the hard drive.
Hope you have a good time with your company."
I'm not planning to respond, unless anyone has other advice.
I got an email from my lawyer today asking for an update, she hasn't received W's proposal or "divorce decree" yet. That's odd since W said she sent it to my lawyer 12/23/2013.
I won't be calling W to alert her to this, I am sure W thinks that her lawyer sent it over.
Yeah, I got a letter last week dated the 10th of December. No big deal. that is why we have attorneys.
I wouldn't give it a lot of thought.
You handled everything well...I think you're right, that the last email doesnt need any further response.
Are you doing anything special for your birthday?
Yeah, I got a letter last week dated the 10th of December. No big deal. that is why we have attorneys.
I wouldn't give it a lot of thought.
Noted, will try to focus on all the good things going on in my life.
You handled everything well...I think you're right, that the last email doesnt need any further response.
Are you doing anything special for your birthday?
Thanks Mimi, I celebrated with my family and it was hysterical. My sister and my birthday are only a few days apart in Jan, so we got each other cards. We got each other the same exact card. It's this awkward family photo card with the dog on a dude's head. We laughed til we cried.
They all fly out tomorrow morning, so I have to wake up at 4 am and take them to the airport. I may have exaggerated when I told W they were here through the weekend. ; ) But whether in the NE looks bad, so we're not sure if they'll get out tomorrow. Bought myself some time in case they can't go.
I also ended up adding a line to their family plan, and am getting an iphone back again. My venture into being smartphoneless was interesting, I plan to apply the things that I observed learned while still having the ability to be in contact with friends and family. It really limited being able to call family and friends, and to get a hold of me. I will not text and drive though, that was something good I learned from all of this that I sort of felt invincible on.
Anyway, it was a good birthday, I'm hoping 29 works out better for me than age 28.
How about an inspirational start to the morning courtesy of K-love's encouraging word?
And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.
~ Ezekiel 36:26
Let's hope we all give that to our significant others as best we can.
That^^^ was good KdoGS, you're taking responsibility for you.
And we should show that to pretty much everyone. I used to be an angry shopper, no one did anything right to my way of thinking and I was usually grumpy and the clerks were grumpy, everyone was grumpy.
I started smiling at clerks, calling them by name (if they have a nametag), asking how their day was going, thanking them, just being less of a stony, stubborn heart.
The majority respond in kind. Little positive interactions like this can change your day.
We have more power than we recognize.
Anyway, sort of regret some of my random acts of kindness, because I think she perceives my kindness as weakness.
You said this further back and it's significant because when you're sure of who you are and acting authentically, it won't matter what other people perceive.
One of the most liberating things I've learned on this journey is that if I'm being true to me,
What other people think of me is none of my business.
Thanks, I have done things genuinely, so I guess what they think of my actions is not important as you mentioned.
So glad you enjoyed your birthday. Hope your family has safe travels.
Your 29th year will be better. I watched a live stream of a NYE service from work and the Pastor said God told him 2014 will be the year of "greater" and I believe it will be for us all
So, tonight I believe I am actually going on a date, or at least out, with a girl I met online. She is in dental school here, we messaged online, and then she gave me her number and we've been texting back and forth. I'm actually pretty excited, she's the same age as me, and has a real career ahead of her and seems very intelligent. She also has an amazing smile from all of the pictures I have seen her. I know first dates or meetups aren't usually too deep in terms of conversations. I don't want to lie to her about my situation if that comes up somehow, that wouldn't be a good start.
Does anyone have suggestions on ways to approach it without just flat out scaring her away because the divorce isn't finalized yet?
I have accepted that my WAW thinks this is the only way she can be happy, so I'll give her the divorce she needs to be happy.
Also, completely unrelated to the possible date tonight-
Part of my recovery program involves taking a fearless moral inventory and writing down the wrongs we did to others in our intoxicated states. I have done so. The next step is to make direct amends, or at least attempt to, wherever possible. I am strongly considering writing individual letters to W, her father and her mother, and possibly her aunt/cousin and grandparents. These letters would not be justifications for anything that happened.
They are basically saying, I did things such as "embarass you at so and so's wedding by getting drunk" and apologize for doing so.
I also thought it would be a good opportunity to mention to them that I was sorry for specific things that I did or happened while living under their roof. I know that this potentially is giving them cannon fodder during the divorce, so I would be generic enough to not incriminate myself. I would also thank them for things they did for me while under their roof.
I would mention things like "there's a possibility we may run into each other around town, and I don't want there to be any animosity between us, I will definitely treat you all with love and respect."
I would close it by asking for them for forgiveness.
I do feel that I need to do this for my recovery program, and I cannot do it in person because they requested I stay away from their house. Would a hand-written letter be a good gesture?
What does your sponsor say?
I mean on the drinking part of it, that's a go to send the letter.
On the non-drinking parts of it, that's what I'm asking the DB folks.
Should I keep it specifically to issues relating to alcohol, or also some about the depression I was going through?
I wouldn't go into too much, as it can be overwhelming.
The drinking and depression are probably related, right?
I wouldn't go into too much, as it can be overwhelming.
The drinking and depression are probably related, right?
Absolutely.
Ok, I'll work on those letters tomorrow and try to keep them as brief as possible while saying what I think I need to say.
I agree with Labug, don't go into details of past/hurts events. Just make a general apology for any behaviors or actions that may have been embarrassing etc...
I'm also wondering if maybe you should let them know in the letter that the letter is a step in your recovery, nothing more nothing less? As they may think it's something you're doing because of your sitch...so I think intent should be made clear. That's just my opinion though, of course.
As far as the dating, I've been wondering things like that myself...maybe I'm just scared of the rejection b/c of it, but I figured the 3rd date would be a good time to let them know I was marriage/still technically married, if I felt I really liked the person.
But if it's brought up before then, I'd say of course be honest.
Thanks Mimi, I'm meeting this woman for coffee this evening, so we'll see how that goes and what kind of conversation develops!
I already have a great joke in mind. She's in dental school, so I'm going to ask her if she plans to be the 10th dentist...you know 9 out of 10 recommend this, will she be the 10th that refuses to? HAAAAA I crack myself up
Tell her that you are just awaiting the final filing, judge's signature, etc.
You impress me, K... Have fun tonight.
I don't want to lie to her about my situation if that comes up somehow, that wouldn't be a good start.
She doesn't know you're married? That is something you need to disclose to her ASAP. Some women are EXTREMELY put off by going out with a married man no matter what the sitch is. I learned this pretty quickly when I started dating. It's a lot better to get that out there right away before even starting to converse with someone. If you're posting profiles on dating sites, put it right in your profile. Some women won't care but others care a LOT.
I have accepted that my WAW thinks this is the only way she can be happy, so I'll give her the divorce she needs to be happy.
Hard to tell at this point, your sitch is still really young. You're not even 4 months into it.
I don't want to lie to her about my situation if that comes up somehow, that wouldn't be a good start.
She doesn't know you're married? That is something you need to disclose to her ASAP. Some women are EXTREMELY put off by going out with a married man no matter what the sitch is. I learned this pretty quickly when I started dating. It's a lot better to get that out there right away before even starting to converse with someone. If you're posting profiles on dating sites, put it right in your profile. Some women won't care but others care a LOT.
Thanks, I'll let her know while we're having coffeeI have accepted that my WAW thinks this is the only way she can be happy, so I'll give her the divorce she needs to be happy.
Hard to tell at this point, your sitch is still really young. You're not even 4 months into it.
WAW stated in an email that she wants the process to move as quickly as possible so she can move on and continue healing, so I'm not coming up with this on my own. She has stated that's what she needs
Tell her that you are just awaiting the final filing, judge's signature, etc.
You impress me, K... Have fun tonight.
Thanks MrCas,
I adopted your credo and what a difference it's made! I've decided to go with something like - "I do believe trust and honesty and really important so I need to let you know that I'm currently finalizing a divorce. I wanted you to have all the facts so you could decide if you wanted to spend your valuable time getting to know me in the future."
I agree with Labug, don't go into details of past/hurts events. Just make a general apology for any behaviors or actions that may have been embarrassing etc...
I'm also wondering if maybe you should let them know in the letter that the letter is a step in your recovery, nothing more nothing less? As they may think it's something you're doing because of your sitch...so I think intent should be made clear.
Thanks Mimi, I will preface the whole letter with letting them know this is part of the recovery process and that is all it is meant to do. I'll be back here for thumbs up or down when I come up with the drafts for those and will value your input on them, as I have valued your thoughts and of course those of others all along.
I think the other part I have come to realize in all this is W is alien to me right now. I'm not sure if I would want to date her as she currently is. She used to be so loving, giving and generous. I feel like I closed her spirit, and it's yet to reopen. Of course that's my perception, no way to know if she's still treating other's in her old way.
But my sister said something interesting when she was visiting. When my W sent her a facebook message explaining why she was unfriending my sister, W stated that my sister should not respond if it was going to be mean. My sister interpreted this as W thinks that no one else's feelings matter in this situation but W's and I tend to agree. W has sort of becoming controlling in that regard. It's ok for her to express her feelings, but if I do I get 2X4'ed. She definitely did not validate any of my feelings. My sister has feelings as well, and W basically dumped her thoughts on my sister and told her not to respond.
Anyway, I feel like I am at a point (today anyway), where I know I can meet new quality people and be happy either way. If W were to have a change of heart, I almost feel like she would have to win me back to an extent too. I know I have done the work on myself. I would want to hear from her how things were going to be different in a new R/M if we were to reconcile.
My W dumped on my sister on FB, too. Every time W tried to make fantasyland statements and thoughts, my sister countered it with reality.
The transcript was really quite telling of my W's POV and where her thoughts are.
You know what? I don't care. I worry about where my thoughts are. I worry about what my actions do and how the play into real life. My circle of concern has grown smaller and my circle of influence has grown to be more refined.
Keep your eyes and focus out in front of you.
Kdog, I agree with what you posted. I wonder if my W and I have anything left to enjoy. I've continued to write and refine an email to here explaining how I feel. I leave it in my drafts in with no TO address. that way it'll never accidentally go anywhere.
She's self absorbed. Walked away from me and the kids, checked out and lived like a house guest for the past 12-18 months and piled on a mountain of debt to indulge in her horses. I feel like she'd also have to tell me what would change. right now, I am doing my work. I guess I shouldn't worry about her's. Still sometimes....ugh
Thanks MrCas and Paul for your thoughts.
After meeting up with the dental student, it just confirmed for me that I am a catch and that I have self-worth. We showed up to a coffee shop that had closed, so we audibled to Starbucks. She told me if I wanted to get the hell out, the drive over to Starbucks was my chance. HA! A sense of humor from the moment we met. She absolutely loved my 10th dentist joke, and spent a lot of our conversation smiling and laughing.
She's very family oriented and does live at home with her parents while in school, but seems much more autonomous than my W. She was very well spoken and very intelligent. She also was a college athlete. Conversation was pretty effortless and we didn't have any awkward pauses. For a random internet date, I think it went pretty well. We talked for an hour and a half. I mostly just asked her questions and listened, we never got into anything too deep.
I didn't feel there was any opportunity to bring up my current situation, she never really asked why I moved to this city or anything, I think I did a good job asking a lot about her so she did most of the talking. I did practice repeating back summaries of what she said to make sure I heard her correctly.
I left my phone and watch in the car so I wouldn't check either of them. I really focused on eye contact and smiling. I think it went really well. At first she avoided eye contact with me, but toward the end that went away. We talked for over an hour and a half, it was pretty reassuring. I did tell her I no longer drink, but have no problem going out where people are drinking. As we parted she gave me a hug. If anything, we might be good friends, which would be one more friend in this city than I have now.
This solidified my thoughts on W having to actually compete for me to an extent. There are plenty of eligible career and family oriented women out there that will be interested in me. I feel in my heart that with the changes I have made, that W is being a fool to leave.
WAW stated in an email that she wants the process to move as quickly as possible so she can move on and continue healing, so I'm not coming up with this on my own. She has stated that's what she needs
Oh I know you're not coming up with it. You're familiar with Sandi's rules, correct? Don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do? That's because early in the sitch they're confused and in turmoil. Whatever they say is a product of that confusion, my W said things to me that a day or two later she didn't even remember saying. This is your quote that I was responding to:
"I have accepted that my WAW thinks this is the only way she can be happy, so I'll give her the divorce she needs to be happy."
The D is not going to make her happy. Sure she may
think it will, but it won't. Have you read DR? Whether or not you have, reread this blurb from chapter 1 and ask yourself if D is really going to bring you and your W happiness:
The divorce trap seduces over one million people each year. It promises peace and tranquility. It offers a fresh start, a second chance at romance, contentment, and self-discovery. It lures people into its grip by offering assurances that walking out the door can eliminate life's seemingly insurmountable problems. When you're desperately unhappy, these so-called guarantees are hard to resist. But there are good reasons for doing so. If you or someone you love is contemplating divorce you will want to know what I have learned about the truth about divorce.
In my work, I've had a bird's eye view of what happens in people's lives after divorce. I have seen the intense pain and despair that lingers for years. I have seen times when every birthday, holiday, or other causes for celebration have been nothing more but painful reminders of a divorce. I have seen the triggering of unpredictable, hurtful events such the total rejection by the children of the parent seeking the divorce. I have known children who, even after many years following the divorce and after their parents' subsequent marriages, still want to know if mom and dad will ever get back together.
Now, after three decades of our social experiment with rampant divorce and disposal marriages, I know it isn't a matter of people keeping their marriages together because they can, it's a matter of people making their marriages work because they should. Divorce stinks! Why? Recent findings about the long-term effects of divorce speak for themselves.
* Except in very extreme conflict-ridden families- and most families do not fit this criterion- children are better off when their parents stay married.
* Children are more likely to finish school and avoid problems such as teenage pregnancy, drug abuse, and delinquent behavior. Plus, they are more likely to have good marriages themselves.
* Even if a parent is happier as a result of divorce, there is no "trickle down effect." Children still struggle emotionally regardless of how the parent feels.
* Married men make better fathers. They are more likely to provide guidance, role modeling, and financial support.
* Marriage is good for most adults. As compared to single, widowed or divorced people, married people are healthier, have better sex lives, they engage in fewer high-risk activities such as substance abuse, they live longer and they are happier!
* Depression is almost three times as prevalent in women who divorce once, and four times as prevalent in women who divorce twice than in women who have never divorced.
* A random sample of over 8,600 adults revealed the percentages of those who felt lonely. The results are as follows. Marital status and % reporting loneliness:
Married- 4.6
Never Married- 14.5
Divorced 20.4
Widowed- 20.6
Separated- 29.6 (Page and Cole)
* Those in healthy marriages tend to be better, more productive employees. Married men miss work less often.
* Divorce increases the cost of many public health and social service programs. Single-parent households often mean children are raised in poverty or on public aid.
* A single mother's standard of living almost always decreases significantly after divorce.
* As compared to 50% of first marriages that end in divorce, 60% of second marriages end in divorce.
Many people considering divorce say they wish they could have a crystal ball that would allow them to see into the future. Actually, the crystal ball is here for the taking. Research has enabled us to be "clairvoyant." But many people choose to ignore or discount the facts because they've been hoodwinked into believing that divorce provides answers to an unhappy marriage. But how are myths about divorce being perpetuated?
The divorce trap is a powerful conspiracy that is invisible to the naked eye. Like carbon monoxide, the odorless killer, the divorce trap is an insidious influence, invading your thoughts without your knowing it. Obviously you can't stop your W from pursuing D, but don't fall into the trap of thinking it's a good thing or that it will bring either of you happiness.
Your meet up w/ the young lady sounded great. She sounds like a well rounded woman. That's great she liked your joke.... for me it feels good to make people laugh and share a good laugh.
I agree AnotherStander that it wont bring me happiness, and that she is very confused. But with how set she is on it, and the fact that we are past the mandatory wait period, and she wants it done so quickly, I have just surrendered and accepted I cannot change the path we are on. If anything, it seems our new R/M would come after the divorce is over, if ever. She is so controlled by her parents, I don't think she would ever go against their wishes and get back with me, so I'm saying the serenity prayer and recognizing it's something I cannot change or control.
She will need to find out in the coming months all of the things you mentioned. That dating is hard, that the allure of bring rid of me will not bring instant happiness. I cannot wait in limbo while she comes to that realization. I moved here to start a family and have a better life, and I will do that with or without her. I would prefer with her, but right now, that is nowhere near on her radar it seems.
Your meet up w/ the young lady sounded great. She sounds like a well rounded woman. That's great she liked your joke.... for me it feels good to make people laugh and share a good laugh.
Thanks Mimi, even if nothing comes of it, it was good practice at asking questions and listening. There weren't any feelings discussed or validation attempts, but I was so much more cognizant of the way I was interacting with her versus on past dates with other women before W. Perfect practice makes perfect.
I guess the other part is, if I can't use logic to talk her out of it, she won't talk to me about what she's feeling, and wants us to only be civil...Where does that leave me on doing anything but surrendering to her wishes? I can't do anything that resembles pursuit. I did include in one email that I attend the Saturday evening church service and she is always welcome to join me if she chooses, but I'll be there regardless. She does not acknowledge the nice things I do.
What is your suggestion to me on what I do to change the situation? She stated on the 23rd that she wanted this done by New Year's so we could both start 2014 fresh. That doesn't sound like someone re-thinking things to me. She is DONE.
KdoGS, just ask yourself what is best for you, what do you really want right now. Have you healed enough to be able to be present in a new R and not carry baggage from the past?
One caution, let her know you aren't yet D.
We all have baggage from the past in some form or another. I know what mine centered on and it was my drinking in my last relationship that brought my M down. That is something I know I cannot do in a new relationship, or in my regular life as well.
As far as being able to be present in a new R, I absolutely think I am. As I mentioned, W is alien to me as of late, and starting over with her would be a new R anyway. I know she and I know each other the best, but it would still have to be a new R as we both have changed.
I do intend to let the dental girl know. Our first meetup was sort of a feel each other out to see if we want to get together again. If she had asked, or the conversation had gone that way, I would have told her. We didn't get that deep, and if she's not interested in getting together again, she doesn't really need to know my business. If she does reach out to me to get together again, then I'll have to let her know for sure.
In your opinion, am I trying to find a new horse too quickly after my old horse died? Just to reiterate timeline, back in May of 2013 is when we turned into a sexless marriage, and W withdrew and got really weird. Really our marriage ended back then, BD in September was when we finally reached the residency requirement of being here 6 months. She had checked out emotionally, and physically well before June. A physical relationship is very important to me, touch is my LL. It's been 8-9 months since I was even able to last cuddle with W, which was one of my favorite things to do. I miss having the physical closeness with someone.
Ever hear the keb' mo' song Suitcase?
Part of the work here is to be able to leave that baggage behind as much as we can. That includes being OK with yourself and not rushing into things just to make us feel better.
You've had a history with that kind of stuff and are writing an amends letter because of it.
Did you meet the date on a dating site? If so, what did you put as your R status? Are you going into this R, no matter how casual, honestly, respectfully?
Who is KdoGS?
I guess the other part is, if I can't use logic to talk her out of it, she won't talk to me about what she's feeling, and wants us to only be civil...Where does that leave me on doing anything but surrendering to her wishes?
I think you've clarified in your last few posts that you're in the right place- your W wants the D and even though you don't you're not standing in the way of it. I just wanted to point out that while your W thinks D is the answer, it really isn't. But she is going to have to find that out on her own. Unless you've decided you want D, don't push for it. Let her take care of it. Even though she's talking like she wants it done ASAP, don't be surprised if she just leaves it to simmer on the back burner, WAS's often do that.
I can't do anything that resembles pursuit. I did include in one email that I attend the Saturday evening church service and she is always welcome to join me if she chooses, but I'll be there regardless.
That is the right approach to take- tell her she's welcome to join you but you go regardless. If she chooses not to go, well that's her choice but you're moving on in life whether she participates or not.
She does not acknowledge the nice things I do.
I know how much it hurts (from personal experience) when you're used to getting validation and suddenly you're getting none, it's tough for the self-esteem. Have you read No More Mister Nice Guy? It helped me to understand why I was seeking validation from my wife and others, how unhealthy it was, and how to change that pattern. You need to get to a place where you see the value in yourself and you do things not to receive validation from others, but because you want to or because morally it's the right thing to do.
What is your suggestion to me on what I do to change the situation? She stated on the 23rd that she wanted this done by New Year's so we could both start 2014 fresh. That doesn't sound like someone re-thinking things to me. She is DONE.
You can't change her, only she can change her. You may be right in that she has to be D'd before she can even start her journey to recovery. My W was totally and completely DONE too, then 6 months after BD she suddenly did a 180 and signed us up for RetroV, started talking about getting back together and what that would look like. Unfortunately she reversed course again soon after, but my point is that the WAS will often say they are DONE DONE DONE day in and day out and then have a turnaround practically overnight. Unfortunately the LBS has often moved on by then because they heard that word "done" so much that they believed it would always be that way.
Did you meet the date on a dating site? If so, what did you put as your R status? Are you going into this R, no matter how casual, honestly, respectfully?
Who is KdoGS?
We did meet on a social site called okcupid, it's not strictly for dating. I have what I'm looking for as "friends" and the other options include short term dating, long term dating and casual sex. The law here states after 60 days of filing, it's permissible to date while the divorce is being finalized. I don't feel meeting up for coffee is adultery, but I would definitely have to disclose more information if she indeed wants to meet up again.
As far as who I am, I am a recovered alcoholic who brings a lot to the table in my friendships and relationships. I am a cook, a father to a wonderful furry daughter named Kahlua who I treat like my child. I am there for my friends and family when they need me. I am financially responsible and care for myself. I am kind to others, and listen when people talk. I try to take interest in whatever they want to talk about, even if it's not something I have a clue about. For example, I just got a haircut, and the woman and I could not have been less alike. But she mentioned being in school, so I got her talking about her future career designing role playing video games. I am spiritual and have morals and beliefs. I know that there are things I cannot control, and I have made a conscious decision to turn most of my problems over to my Higher Power, because parts of my life are unmanageable by myself.
I moved to this city and left my old job to have time for family. To have a better work life balance. To start and raise a family. None of those goals have changed. The person I may have to achieve those goals with has changed, but the goals remain. That is who KdogGS is. I'm not saying this will always be who I am, we all change over time. But I plan to do nothing but mature as a person and become the best KdogGS I can possibly be.
Thanks for clarifying all of your thoughts AnotherStander. I usually get emails from W on Monday's when she is off of work, about the next step she wants to take. So I would imagine tomorrow or this evening I will get some kind of gauge on how fast or slow she wants to move now.
The iron was very hot before Christmas, but since the New Year, only an unexpected birthday wish and when she will be by to get the hard drive. It seems to me like she thinks I already have her divorce proposal, so that may be why there is little contact. My attorney has not yet received the paperwork so I haven't even seen what she sent.
In others news, I went on a hiking meetup this morning, and met a German girl with a wonderful dog. We really had a great time on the hike, she laughed a lot. Every little bit helps the self-esteem and self-confidence.
Also, I am meeting up with another woman I met online tonight. She does know that I am currently going through a divorce. Her husband cheated on her with multiple women and she left him, so she said we should stick to other topics. I am just going to meet her, it will be much different than last night because she knows my situation and that the D isn't final yet, so I feel like it's all out in the open on this one.
Adultery wasn't even a thought in my head but if I was meeting someone for coffee from a dating site, I'd want to know right up front if he was in the midst of a D for many reasons. One of those reasons being, how emotionally available is this guy?
Just a perspective.
Point taken. I will make sure to tell her. I'm starting a new thread since I reached 100 posts on this one already!