Here's my last thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...331#Post2402331I was going to move to mlc forum, but got locked out of my last thread before I could say my goodbyes to newcomers, so I'm still here until I hit the limit on this thread.
I'm hardly a newcomer any more, but don't want to 'lose' any friends from here by seeming to disappear.
Anyway, by way of documenting the process, i wanted to report on what happened in the third week of XH's new 'dinner-with-family' mode.
Last Wednesday night was a doozy. It was not his suggested Thursday night, as D17 had asked him to change to the night before so she could come out with us. It was end of exams for her cohort on Thurs night and her friends had all planned to go out together.
He arrived all amped up - belligerent and argumentative.
It only took 2 secs of us all in the car together for him to crack. He asked D17 where she was going on Thurs night.
She said she didn't know yet.
XH went ballistic - stopped the car in the middle of the road and tore strips off her.
"I changed my night especially for you and you don't even know where you're going?"
I came to her rescue trying to explain that kids these days use phones to make their decisions about where and when to go at the last minute, but he was having none of it. We were all withholding information, from his pov.
A little later on we had stopped at traffic lights and a police car pulled up next to us.
S15, as is his wont, put forth a hypothetical: "What if I was being abducted by a stranger and I mimed to the police 'Help, I'm being abducted'? Would they understand and rescue me?
XH went off. "You won't ever be abducted; you don't fit the profile. Kids like you from good schools don't' get abducted (WTF!!). And anyway, it's not strangers you have to worry about. It's your parents and grandparents and other relatives.. they are the ones you have to worry about doing something dangerous to you."
The kids and I were stunned. I felt like asking him to pull over so we could all get out. He seemed manic.
This set the tone for the rest of the evening.
He took us to an out-of-the way restaurant - a weird place that had 1970s decor (and not in an ironic sense) and was cavernous, but quite empty of customers.
He was sarcastic, rude and racist to the waitress (bellowing about goat being on the menu and about the state of the toilets, among other things).
The kids and I were cringing. This was just so unlike him....
Then D17 made her second mistake. Asked him to lend her $300 for the bond she needs to pay at the guesthouse that she's staying in for end-of-school-year celebrations at a coastal town with her friends.
These events are a bit notorious, so accommodation providers tend to stick a big bond on the bookings. Good old dad will help out won't he? He'll get his money back, too.
Not on your life. An mlcer and his money are never parted (unless its to spend on himself or his OW).
How did he get out of it?
By starting a huge argument with her.
Where are you staying? She told him.
Where is that?
"I don't have the exact address on me but it's in coastal town."
That's not good enough. You can't expect me to give you money if i don't know where it is.
"It's on google, just look it up if you're worried."
How dare you be so rude to me. I will not put up with your rudeness. I've paid over a million dollars in education fees and this is how you treat me.
I'm not going to give you the money now.
Silence ensued and then the kids asked to go for gelati like we do every meal we have with him.
He then brought us home and came in to the house with us, even though it was late.
He was chatting away for a bit (standing in the hall) and then quite suddenly, said "What are you doing about Xmas". Kids said "we don't know yet."
He said "Well i need to know cause i won't be here much longer".
We all took a big breath.
"I'm going away for work. Ring me if you ever want to go out to dinner again", and without saying goodbye, he was gone.
Next day he rang S15 several times and apologised for being so angry.
Definitely not a linear process.
Hey NLW
This guy is nuts. Completely bonkers. What on earth is his deal???
Curiouser and curiouser.
WH
Ouch. I don't know what to tell other than be careful he doesn't become violent.
I had periods like that years ago...
I was in a pure rage, nothing you can do about it, other than to stay clear.
Yes beware of violence, I would get so worked up I would put my fist through something and God forbid someone was near, unintentional damage can happen…
Hey guys,
That's interesting - I didn't think of it as rage.
I jumped straight to mania.
A friend of mine said - what do you expect when he's had to lie to OW about why he's out? In other words, the Wed night caused great difficulty for him when he normally sees us on the night OW works late, and hence she doesn't know.
Anyway, the other thing I thought was that it's pretty typical of the peek out/back- to-replay pattern that's talked about.
All in all, it's been pretty useful in helping the kids and I detach from him.
The more we see of him acting like this, the less we long for the old days.
He is patently not right; no-where near.
Well, today is dinner-with-dad Thursday.
I got a call from XH at lunchtime asking if he can take the kids out for dinner.
He then says he wants to take them on his own.
OK, I say, happy as a clam.
When I tell D17, she says she will be busy this evening getting a tan and packing her bags to go to away with her friends. She rings him and tells him. He is annoyed.
When I tell S15, he says he won't go out with H on his own. I ask him to ring and tell XH before he shows up on our doorstep, but S15 says he doesn't care enough to ring him.
XH is very put out when he arrives and S15 won't go. He insists that I MAKE S15 go with him. I say he can sort it out with S15 himself - as he is sitting right in front of him.
XH tells S15 that he's too young to make his own decisions.
He keeps trying to make me make S15 go with him.
In the end he spends an hour giving S15 a 'talking to'.
I hear S15 telling him that he doesn't like him, doesn't care about him anymore and has been let down by him too often.
Then, all of a sudden, XH comes into the room where i am and asks me if i want to go out to dinner.
I feel like I have been put into a no-win situation. I end up saying that I don't want to push myself where I'm not wanted.
He stands there for a bit looking undecided about what to do/say and then turns on his heel without a word to any of us and walks out.
Sits in his car in the driveway for about 5 mins and then drives off.
Oh, and he gave D17 $500.
Okay, let me preface this by saying that you are amazing to be so strong through all the nutter activities over especially the past year!!
Two, I really feel compassion for your H right now. While I cannot even guess where or what is in his head,even with his manic phase, he seems more lucid at times than I've seen him portrayed.
With lucidity begins to come flashes of " WTF have I done?"
I thought it was evident in the apology to S and the money to D, two things that even six months ago he wouldn't have done.
I am not saying the guy is repentant and now beating himself over the head. I am saying there just seems to be momentary clearing as the fog drifts for just the instant.
I can't even begin to know how I would deal with the pain I caused if I was your H. I don't know if I could even go there myself.
Well, today is dinner-with-dad Thursday.
I got a call from XH at lunchtime asking if he can take the kids out for dinner.
He then says he wants to take them on his own.
OK, I say, happy as a clam.
I think maybe your reply implied that you would make sure the kids were ready to go when he got there, which clearly wasn't the case. Perhaps it would have been a good idea to tell him that you were fine with it, but he needed to coordinate it with the kids himself.
I know he's "crazy" in an MLC way and that has got to be tremendously difficult to deal with for you, but keep in mind 25's mantra about keeping the way home "paved and smooth". When he showed up he was met with resistance and negativity from all 3 of you. It could be argued that he deserved it, but DB'ing isn't about getting even, it's about showing the WAS what they're missing. In this particular instance he had to walk away thinking he wasn't missing much.
NLW, I haven't been up to date on your stitch in quite a while and figured I'd stop by. I was thinking "I hope NLW is in a much better place!"
Good news/bad news, I think YOU are in a better place, but your H is still off-the-rails nuts. I do think you might want to consider setting a boundary that if he's not able to control these angry outbursts, you're going to suspend Thursday dinners.
Why does he still have access to you and the kids if this is how he acts?
Acc
NLW,
Is it any easier for you, just seeing 99% of the time that your H is several fries short of a happy meal? Heck, he's even missing the burger.
The only thing I am wondering is whether with S15 it might be good to encourage him to continue to respect H, at least with the weekly meal?
Okay, let me preface this by saying that you are amazing to be so strong through all the nutter activities over especially the past year!!
Two, I really feel compassion for your H right now. While I cannot even guess where or what is in his head,even with his manic phase, he seems more lucid at times than I've seen him portrayed.
With lucidity begins to come flashes of " WTF have I done?"
I thought it was evident in the apology to S and the money to D, two things that even six months ago he wouldn't have done.
Thanks Ruby,
Interestingly, the apology and the money-giving have been regular patterns in the past - immediately after big angry outbursts, he has often apologised and given guilt gifts.
So, yeah, if the fog does lift, it only does so momentarily.
I think maybe your reply implied that you would make sure the kids were ready to go when he got there, which clearly wasn't the case. Perhaps it would have been a good idea to tell him that you were fine with it, but he needed to coordinate it with the kids himself.
Yes, AS, this was my preferred mode of dealing with invites out.
But my XH will have none of it. He insists that I have to be the one to deal with the kids. He even insists that I must make them go out with him.
I find this aspect especially strange.
And yeah, i take your point about paved and smooth...
Despite my best efforts to be getting on with things in a detached way and treating him as a mere acquaintance, the kids' responses to him are often not 'acting as if' everything is fine and OK. I understand why, but it often means that his infrequent visits home are fraught.
Not the sort of experience anyone wants, but understandable all the same. The kids are hurt and bewildered by this strange man who used to be their father.
Hi gabbysmom,
Thanks for your support.
I am really reluctant to say anything that suggests I am trying to control his relationship with the kids.
I struggle with this as it seems to me he is often causing them more pain... but he really goes off if he thinks i am stopping his access in any way.
The kids are old enough, I think, to make their own decisions about seeing him. I can't really stop them or make them.
And i do believe he has to face the consequences of what he has done in regards to them. He has created this relationship with them.
I do think you might want to consider setting a boundary that if he's not able to control these angry outbursts, you're going to suspend Thursday dinners.
Why does he still have access to you and the kids if this is how he acts?
Hi Acc, Great to hear from you!
I think the boundary idea is moot at this point. Thurs dinners are over.
My reason for going with them for the past 3 weeks was that it seemed like a major step forward that he was including me in the invites... and, frankly, we liked/needed the opportunity to have a slap-up meal for free.
But yes, if it comes with too much angst, where's the point?
First 2 weeks were good, but things had deteriorated by the third week and fell apart at week 4.
But at least we are not nostalgic, any more about 'being with dad'.
NLW,
Is it any easier for you, just seeing 99% of the time that your H is several fries short of a happy meal? Heck, he's even missing the burger.
Yes, it is!
The only thing I am wondering is whether with S15 it might be good to encourage him to continue to respect H, at least with the weekly meal?
Not to be dismissive, but, some chance!
Xh continues to manipulate S15 into conversations where he asks, repeatedly; "But what have i done to make you so unhappy?"
Imagine a child, even one of 15, trying to detail THAT to his mlc/adulterous father.
Just because I feel empathetic towards your H doesn't mean I don't also think he is a few sandwiches short.....
Keep on NLW. I was just looking back on the last year and marvelling how much you've changed. Even your kids!
Keep up all the tremendously good work
. You are amazing.
At this point, NLW, would you even WANT him back. I have been struggling with this point for some time. We get so bogged down in survival mode that we forget about what is good for us.
Sometimes you have to DB not to save the marriage, but just to get through the day.
WH
HI Guys,
I'd like some feedback on something XH sent to S15 via email.
He contacts the kids about once a week now via a random brief phone call.
S15 had a big conversation with him last week in which he said that he didn't like him, had been let down too many times and didn't want to go out to dinner with him.
And then this email to S15.
I feel like it's creepy/borderline abusive to exploit a kid's emotions like this - or am i just being a resentful lbs?
It came in the form of a cartoon picture with the following spiel:
"Very challenging word test-you only get 30 seconds.
Only 12% of the earth's population can solve this in 30 seconds.
Say the opposite of these words. - Always coming from take me down"
In the spirit of writing out here what I'd like to say to XH, but won't...
I felt like I wanted to respond with tit for tat:
Multiple choice question (Only 1 per cent of the population ever gets this wrong)
2. Rick Astley's never gonna:
a) Give you up
b) Let you down
c) Run around and desert you
d) Make you cry
e) Say goodbye
f) Tell a lie and hurt you
g) All of the above
Just an update so that if anyone is interested in following the progress of a full-blown mlc, they can confirm that the script is just that - a rock-solid baseline around which mlcers improvise their own version of turmoil.
Christmas is coming and end-of-school-year speech nights, etc - all of which is proving too much for my XH.
Plus the fact that, from what I can gather on the grape vine, he and OW are about to jet off for another luxury holiday - this time to Paris (City of Lurve) . They intend to return on Xmas eve, so they'll be back to spanner-up for Xmas day.
Not bad for someone who can't afford to pay child support...
I can only imagine the guilt involved.
Anyway... we have had violent spew emanating from nowhere - in the midst of otherwise normal interactions with him - and focused on events that occurred around 2 years ago (at the time of BD when kids and I happened across OW in our local supermarket car park, driving our family car).
He is still so angry, guilty, obsessing, a pure victim. I am the sole and absolute villain of the piece, and I am responsible for everything that is bad about his, and the kids', current life.
There is a good thing to come out of what we have gone through in the past couple of days.
Neither I nor the kids retain any nostalgic ideas about how nice it would be to be with him again.
He is in complete crisis/breakdown mode and is scary to be around.
We, on the other hand, appear to have moved on.
Guy's a nutter. Sorry
NLW, good for you guys
Maybe you can start looking at him like some sort of strange little character that pops up in your lives, leaving you all bemused, and shaking you heads for about ten seconds until he is forgotten again.
I know he is the father of your children, keep the road paved and all that, but when he is in complete breakdown like this, maybe you can detour him....
I came over here to check on you, NLW, and am really sorry to read about all that has transpired. Our xh's have such similar behavior. Mine, too, has spewed at the kids. They haven't been out with him in over a year. He scares them with his erratic behavior. He abandoned them, lied to them and repeatedly hurt them.
Like your xh, mine has money to buy a new car and a new house and generally live the high life, but won't acknowledge school or medical expenses that are nominal in comparison. He is incredibly selfish and then seems puzzled as to why he doesn't have a relationship with his own kids.
I'm glad that you and the kids feel you have moved on and are making a life for yourselves. We have done the same. Xh is just someone who pops up from time to time just to insert his craziness in our lives.
NLW, these guys had a master plan that didn't pan out. They have lost control and it causes a lot of fear for them. The spew comes from that place. The more desperate they become the more volatile the behavior. Please be careful.
Thanks for your support guys.
One thing that's come out of the latest spew from XH is his new version of what was wrong with me/our marriage.
During the M he did not mention this. At BD, he did not mention it. A few months after BD, he gave me a birthday card depicting me as Wonderwoman, and celebrating my achievements in caring for our kids on my own.
He would apologise for himself and tell me it was not me but him.
Two years or so later and he is calling me a "disgusting and appalling person".
"Deceptive and manipulative".
Said that my "conscience should plague me for the rest of my life."
And the reason?
I kept him and his children away from his family - specifically from his grandparents.
And they are now dead.
XH's mlc commenced at the death of his paternal grandfather who was like a father to him.
Paternal grandmother passed, after a debilitating and lonely hospice experience 18 months later.
Maternal grandmother passed 6 months after that, and XH was the only family member available that night to sit with her dead body. A week later, he dropped the bomb.
Maternal grandfather died a few months ago and H had a crisis around funeral attendance and neither he nor the kids ended up going.
So, H's anguish now is that there is no going back. He and the kids didn't spend enough time with grandparents and now they are dead.
It was my fault, as i wouldn't let them.
Hard to know what i can say to validate this without accepting that it was my responsibility.
My pov is that I did the best i could in relation to visiting his extended family, but that i have a demanding professional job, 2 kids at school (sport, music, debating, parties, etc) and H ran a 24/7 business that was failing over the whole time period under discussion. If he wasn't manning the phones, he was paying money we didn't have to an employee.
To say the least, there wasn't much time for socialising.
And my memory is that I did ask repeatedly to visit grandma in hospice, but XH was unexpectedly reluctant. He said he didn't want the kids to see her in her condition and only wanted to go on his own. He had full possession of our only family car and the way I got around was that he would drop me off anywhere I wanted to go (mainly to work), so i had no ability to visit see her on my own (hospice was a long way away).
What I now know was that he was in full-blown affair with OW at this time and was using 'visiting grandma' as an excuse to see OW. And, as I had no transport, he could be sure that I would never stumble upon him and OW on their daily trysts at various hotels and cafes around town.
Anyway, just interesting to see how he's built up a version of what I did wrong that admits of no recovery.
Grandparents are all dead. There is no possibility of change. I did a vile unconscionable thing to him and to our kids.
Sorry for long post (As if that's news!). Felt like i had to get this down 'on paper', as it were. It's been going round and round in my head.
validating...
"It sounds like you're in great pain, and I feel sad about that too."
"I don't remember these events happening the way you do, but I can hear how upset you are."
"I miss them too."
silence
You are not going to get him to remember things your way, at the moment. Someday later he may remember them differently. But it's clear that he is angry and in pain, and those are facts whether it's your fault or not. Validating is just accepting his feelings.
I give more latitude for people being jerks while grieving, but more space and distance when he's being insulting would be a good idea.
Ok, Trying not to focus on what XH does - but it's very hard.
He turned up unannounced at D17's workplace today (she is a checkout operator).
Handed her the latest iPhone (value $750) and apologised for his recent bad behaviour.
True to form for him. A violent spew, a guilt gift and an apology.
S15 got nothing (even though he was the one who had actually asked for a phone when he saw XH recently).
He is upset and feels the unfairness - which will probably emerge as conflict with his sister.
XH thinks D17 is easier to win over than S15 (who is upfront with his opinions of his dad's behaviour).
In the meantime, XH is a week overdue in paying his child support. And refused, on the weekend, to contribute to D17's medical specialist bills or to S15's school book order.
Is there anything to do other than sit back and take this?
My D17 has her final school speech night tonight. She has been at the school since she was 4 years old and will have all the valedictory stuff tonight. There is a celebratory supper for the final year girls and their parents afterwards.
I am starting to obsess over the possibility that XH will show up with OW.
I am already formulating a brief speech that i will deliver to OW if she dares to show her face at my Daughter's special night.
I know this is not DB; I know it will not get me closer to a goal of reconciling (not sure I even want that any more).
I feel like I can't sit by and let this low life, brazen home-wrecker hurt my kids with impunity. She has no place at my children's school functions.
I don't intend to cause a scene. Just to tell her calmly what a despicable low life she is and how she has caused pain and suffering to so many people by her pathetic actions.
On the other hand, I might be lucky; they might both be winging their way to Paris for their next holiday by tonight...
NLW, you must so proud of your daughter. What does she think about her dad and OW showing up at the school? Does she have a say in it? Can she tell her dad to not come there with OW in tow? This should be her special night, she doesn’t have to deal with OW and stuff.
Hey BF,
My D doesn't want them to be there. She will be hurt and also mortified in front of all her school friends, their parents and her teachers who have known us as a family all of her life, just about.
We thought of ringing XH and asking him not to come, but in the past, this has simply strengthened his resolve. He will NOT be told what to do by us... He has no control over what OW does... and similar dumb-arse comments. He always makes it very clear that he values OW above us whenever the occasion arises.
At the moment, we don't know for sure that he is aware of the event tonight - so we don't really want to bring it to his attention.
But the chances are that he does know - and, if past performance is any indication, he will show up with the hag.
I kind of knew that you would say that your H would not listen to you or daughter's wishes. I remember from your previous posts that he did it in the past. You are right not to bring it to his attention, and hopefully OW will have a stomach ache and will not show up.
Keep your attitude positive and enjoy the night.
A good lesson for me yesterday.
Almost worked myself up into a migraine worrying about XH showing up with OW at D17's final school speech night.
When I got there, I tried not to look for our/her car, and when i went into the auditorium, I kept my eyes focused on my own space and didn't scan the room.
Didn't see them and managed to focus on the event.
Supper in the school cafe for final year parents and girls at the end of the night - and it became apparent that XH was not there.
So, all that worry for naught.
And no use for my 'how very dare you' speech. Thank goodness.
Saved from myself.
Ended up having a great time.
Even took lots of photos of the girls all playing around afterwards.
Creating great memories.
This morning, after the pent-up feelings of yesterday, i feel like a weight has been lifted.
With D17 now finished at school, it's like we're entering a new phase of our lives.
I think i have been dragged down by the scandal XH has created amongst the close-knit (hot-house) group associated with school.
It's been tough having to brazen it out at school events for the last couple of years as the woman whose younger husband left her for a much younger woman (and a life-style of conspicuous consumption), and flaunted this trophy around our small community as if i had never existed.
Knowing that I don't have to mask-up and present myself in front of them all as 'that woman' any more is producing a sense of relief.
I suppose i am shallow and need to care less about what people think of me... but I have been ashamed for so long.
It's hard when you are defined, in other people's minds, by what someone else has done to you.
I have felt like a cuckold (or, at least, a female equivalent), a dupe, an old fool...
all of those stereotypes of ridicule and victimhood.
I think that moving away from the hot-house gossipy environment of D17's school will be a relief.
I still have S15's school to deal with, but somehow it doesn't feel so bad any more.
Is there anything to do other than sit back and take this?
I've read your entire situation. I am DBing my butt off in my own situation, but it's partly because my W hasn't gone batsh*t crazy.
Have you considered breaking from the past?
Is there anything to do other than sit back and take this?
I've read your entire situation. I am DBing my butt off in my own situation, but it's partly because my W hasn't gone batsh*t crazy.
Have you considered breaking from the past?
Hi S4,
Not entirely sure what you mean (maybe this is the problem!).
If you mean time to stop, move on, GA(new)L, he is too far gone to hope for ...
well, yes, I have considered all of this and i am getting there.
NLW,
Yeah, that's kind of what I meant, but after writing it I realized it wasn't the most supportive thing to write on a forum where we are trying to save our Ms.
s4tk
Xmas eve here. Just wanting to wish all my friends a good Xmas day.
Kids and i are doing well and very busy.
Email from XH yesterday saying he was too busy (had to work - in the business that he owns!) to visit the kids on Xmas day. He has never worked on Xmas day for as long as we've had the business. He will be with OW and her family, and my kids know this.
So sad.
Noticed from card record that he drove to his teenage home town in the past 2 days - over and back, 14 hrs drive each way.
Stopped off at his out-of-the way home suburb and bought a truckload of booze.
His crisis has its roots here (when he was 16), as far as i can work out.
Claims his mum abandoned him to go and live with his younger brother in another state. Big story about having to bake his own birthday cake for his 16th birthday....
And how he drove all night without stopping to come over to our city to visit his sick grandpa (this is the journey he just re-visited yesterday).
The pieces all start to fit, with hindsight.
Anyway, enough about him. Off to shop for Xmas day lunch with my family at my place tomorrow.
Love and best wishes to all.
Merry Christmas NLW
Yes, NLW, Merry Christmas!
I don't know...just when i think things are going OK, something pops out of the blue that's hard to deal with.
I've been taking the kids to the local cinema to pass the time after xmas.
MIL gave me a cinema pass for Xmas and so tonight we went to see Water Mitty.
It played in a small, 150-seat cinema, and guess who was there too?
Kids saw their dad as we waited to go in. He was there with OW and sat just in front of us in the opposite row.
Kids evening was spoiled.
We could see OW doing lots of exaggerated 'hand talking' during the ads before the start of the movie.
Us all being there at the same time was just plain weird.
We've gone to this local cinema about 100 times as a family over the years.
And now we sit opposite each other (him with his affair partner instead of his kids) and ignore each other.
Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this sort of weirdness??
We just ignored him and waited until they had gone before we left.
But it doesn't make it any easier for the kids.
There is their dad, who they hardly see any more, sitting 5 seats away watching the same movie with this home-wrecker.
Does anyone have any advice?
I have no advice NLW, but I do know that this still affects you so greatly that it bleeds into all areas of your life.
I also know, from your story, that it has been a really long hard road.
Is it time for GA(new)L?
I know what you want, but if nothing changes from today, and let's say it doesn't, what do you need?
Wow.
The truth is your xH is not a functioning human adult so you need to be a super woman/mom/person for your kids.
It is wrong for your H to ignore your kids so why not say "oh so strange running into you guys should we sit together?" I know this is weird and fake but is it the best possible option? Does it show your kids how to make the best out of a bad stitch?
I don't know NLW I am thinking along the lines of BM as well. Own the situation and go say hello - let the kids feel they are able to approach their dad? I honestly don't know. It's super hard on you but he is THEIR dad first and foremost. He doesn't belong to OW he belongs to them.
Sending you peace and strength.
And lots of love
Weird o Rama. And for him to sit there and ignore his own kids? I just don't get it. And he wonders why they want nothing to do with him?
I would have ignored him too. Honestly. If you would have approached him he would probably accuse you of making a scene, even if you weren't.
(((NLW)))
WH
HI Ruby, BK, Busting, WH,
I appreciate your views on this.
I took a couple of days to think it through, but i don't think I could have approached XH while he was with OW in the cinema.
I think WH was spot-on with the idea that he would have been convinced (not without foundation) that i was going to make a scene.
But more so, I just can't bring myself to have anything to do with that woman.
And my kids don't want to, either.
XH rang S15 the day after the cinema episode and asked him if he wanted to go out to the dog park. S15 said he sounded sad and upset.
S15 refused and didn't speak much.
It makes me sad to think what XH has lost.
The kids and I went to the beach with the dogs. Tomorrow we are planning to go to the movies again (different cinema from now on). In the meantime, I'm planning on watching another Capra on video.
D17 is working her butt off at the fruit and veg store to get spending money. She turns 18 in 3 weeks and XH does not have to pay child support after that. Ha!
I have been NC with XH since two weeks before Xmas.
Yesterday was D17's 18th birthday - a 'big' event as it signals drinking/voting/general adult rights.
Kids and i were all pretty sad leading up to the day - D17 especially, as she hadn't heard from her dad for so long.
He texted her on the day and asked her to call back to tell him when he could see her.
I had organised to take the kids out to dinner at a local cafe on the beach and so told her she could ask him to come if she wanted.
I expected him to refuse but, at the last minute, he texted her he was coming but would be late, and to start without him.
He turned up 20 mins late and said he had to work and could not stay to eat dinner with us.
He sat and ordered a drink and paid for our meals, and ended up not leaving until we had all finished.
Before he left, he asked her to open an envelope, as he wanted her to sign something.
His present to her on her 18th birthday - the registration papers for our clapped-out family car - the one he left us with when he took our good car with him.
He crashed it just before he left it, and it broke down about a month later. It has been sitting immobile in our garage for 2 and a half years.
Judge ordered that he get it repaired 12 months ago, and also ordered that he could not sell or otherwise dispose of any marital property.
It is old and broken and probably only worth scrap value if anyone would want to take it away.
And this is what he proudly 'gave' to our D on her special day.
I feel almost broken by this latest development.
He seems completely out of touch with reality.
Or is it me?
I can't really tell any more.
its not you. he is out of touch. Show your d how to be a strong positive woman despite the fact that her dad has some serious issues.
wbw, thanks for reminding me.
I need to keep strong and positive.
This last twist threw me - he seems so far from reality that it scared me to think what I am dealing with.
But no point succumbing to it. Just another in a long line of challenges.
I must say, though, that i get depressed at his ability to cast me as the villain in everything.
Now it's "I gave D18 a car for her bday, but XW wouldn't let me/insisted on keeping it for herself. What a cow she is."
Is that what he said?? That's not cool at all. Does he realise the state the car is in?
Hi Busting - thanks for looking in!
No, that's not what he said - it's what my long experience with him suggests will be his response.
He is a master at working up situations in which there is nowhere to turn but his way.
Here, if i tell D18 that there is a court order on marital assets and he has no right to give them away, I look like the bad guy.
If i try to point out that the cost (registration, tyres, repairs, petrol) of running this gas-guzzling huge old car is going to be too much for her... I still look like I'm oppositional (At least it's a car, and she is desperate for transport).
A no-win situation, as usual for everyone.
I'm going to try to be positive in my approach... although i'm sure he will erupt when he realises she is not going to sign the papers straight away. He has already been badgering her via phone.
And yes, to answer your question - he does realise the state the car is in. Judge ordered him to get it repaired 12 months ago because he had left us without any working transport.
I'm more and more worried that there really is something wrong, cognitively (beyond mlc madness, that is).
NLW, is this car a joint property? And what your D18 has to sign?
Hi Bright,
Yes, the car is joint property. We have a property settlement hearing scheduled for March.
XH has filled out the form for change of owner, and has listed D18 as the new owner.
The trick is that both of our cars were registered as being owned by our business (for tax purposes) and, as sole director of the business, he can sign off on forms.
But the whole point is that both the business and the cars were joint marital assets, and this is why judge ordered him not to dispose of anything until settlement was decided.
And yet, he proceeds to go ahead and sign over an accident-damaged, broken-down, and likely not-worth-fixing vehicle to our learner-driver daughter for a birthday present.
Well, according to the judge’s order he didn’t have the rights to change the ownership of the car. I don’t think I understand all these fully, my head is kind of spinning, thanks to you XH. If the car is not running, what does he expect you to do? Is he going to fix it?
He is not going to fix it.
In his mind, I am pretty sure, he sees himself as having 'given' D18 a $5,000 car. This is the value he wrote on the change of owner form.
My understanding is that the repairs would cost well above this amount. It is accident-damaged and the transmission is completely broken (i.e. it is not drive-able). It is 15 years old and has something like 185,000kms on the clock.
Even if fixed, she would be left with a car that was still ready for the junk yard, and it would be beyond her means to pay for registration, insurance, tyres on such a big sedan.
BUT he could tell everyone that he gave his daughter a car for her 18th birthday.
What a guy!
The whole thing makes me feel so uneasy. I go right back to asking myself "Is he all there?"
And how long do I have to keep protecting the kids from his nuttiness.
For as long as, I suppose.
Yes, he is a nut case. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. What was your D18’s reaction on this “gift”?
And yet, he proceeds to go ahead and sign over an accident-damaged, broken-down, and likely not-worth-fixing vehicle to our learner-driver daughter for a birthday present.
My WAW is cold and indifferent, but good grief I can't believe the level of flat-out CRAZY that many of you have to deal with. This is just WRONG on so many levels. And I actually feel a little sorry for him that he might think this stupid, bone-headed move would make your D happy. It reminds me of my parents buying totally age-inappropriate gifts for my kids (like Fisher Price stuff for a pre-teen). It's stupid and embarrassing at the same time!
Bright,
My D18 has been burnt by her dad so often that she was wary.
She looked at the form and said something along the lines of: Now that I'm an adult, I have to consider the consequences of signing these types of forms very carefully. I will look this over in detail before I sign.
She then asked him if he intended to fix the car before he signed it over to her, but he said no.
She feels like she has been put in a bind. He is ringing, asking her when she will return the form to him and she doesn't know what to say.
And, of course, she really wants access to a car. She is the only one of her friends who does not have a family car to drive. She is completely dependent on others (me and her friends) to drive her around.
AS,
Yes, it's an uneasy feeling - sort of embarrassed and sad and awkward - for D18, but also for XH.
Nasty is one thing... I have learnt to deal with that.
But this is different. It's thrown me.
NLW are you doing okay? Haven't heard from you in a bit.
WH
NWL, how are you doing? I hope that the car situation has been resolved. I hope your X came to his senses and put some money towards repair. I feel for your daughter.
Hi WH, BF
Thanks so much for asking...
I have not been posting as I was coming up to trial date (settlement) and didn't want to prejudice anything by posting what was going on.
I've been reading along with you all though.
Short version is that trial was par for the mlc course.
Long version is as follows:
Those who are familiar with my sitch may recall that XH filed a notice of discontinuance - meaning that he withdrew from all proceedings (because he didn't want to produce any financial documentation).
I was left to carry on with settlement via an undefended trial.
Sounds good, but reality is that without the other party being represented, there is a huge onus on the petitioner to show evidence for fairness of their claim.
The conclusion of months of preparation for the trial was that XH would be highly likely to be prosecuted on multiple counts related to financial dealings.
In this context we offered to proceed via consent orders to each keep whatever we currently had and avoid the cost of going to trial.
This meant that I was left with all the marital debt, but kept the heavily-mortgaged house and my superannuation. No compensation for the huge amounts he had squandered... but there appeared to be no way that he would be able to pay them back and in this case, the likelihood was that the family court would not order him to - if you don't have the assets, you simply can't be made to split them.
So, so far, so unfair...
After weeks of to-ing and fro-ing with a draft of consent orders, we got to the last days.
My L sent XH (who has chosen not to have legal representation) what we thought was a penultimate draft, two days before trial.
XH did not respond.
Then, at 1-minute to COB on the night before the trial was due to start at 10am next morning, my L received a demand from XH that he re-write a number of clauses.
XH was insisting, for example, that we list monetary values against all property and assets, such that his businesses were worth "NIL", his 2011 BMW was worth "NIL", his possessions were worth "NIL", etc, etc whilst my house was worth its full value (conveniently forgetting that it was mortgaged to the hilt).
You get the drift.
It was pathetic and sad.
L got back to XH to explain that any $ amounts needed to be based on independent valuations and that it was him, in the first place, who had refused to allow this to occur.
Xh responded at 9pm that night appearing to say that he would be OK with the draft being signed off in the morning, prior to the trial.
On the basis of months of negotiations beforehand, both L and I believed that XH had no interest in going ahead with the trial - and this had even been agreed between XH and L at a pre-trial hearing 3 weeks before.
So, we get to court house and L and I wait... and wait... and wait.. XH does not arrive.
At precisely 9.55am (trial is at 10am) XH shows up, with OW in tow.
My L rushes him straight into an ante-room assuming that he will be signing off on the draft he agreed to last night.
OW, arrogant hag, plops herself down on the bench, right next to me.
I did myself proud. I kept thinking of you guys (literally reciting all your DB names to myself) and stayed calm and collected.
L eventually emerged with steam coming from his ears to report that XH would not sign the draft and wanted all his original changes that we had spent weeks negotiating on.
We spent the next 2 hours with my L going back and forth to XH and OW who pored over every word and demanded change after change.
All this at my cost, too.
L was livid and called XH all the names under the sun - even down to 'f-er' and 'a-hole' . He told me "I don't know how you stayed married to this jerk as long as you did. he is unbelievable".
Eventually we agreed to all XH's BS because there seemed to be no way around the madness of it. He would not agree even to pay half of S15's school fees, for example. He insisted on the old family car going to D17, instead of splitting the cars with me...
To add insult to injury, every single page of the 'agreement' was counter-signed by OW as his 'witness".
I did myself proud.
I stayed calm, keeping the mantra of compassion over blame and shame.
My goodness it worked for me.
I just felt that both XH and OW were sadly pathetic. I know XH has lost his children forever. I just want to be done with him and his sad antics.
After the short trial that ensued ( Judge had to read the 'agreement'), I ran into XH coming back from the bar table as I was going out the door.
He wasn't going to look at me, I think, but i kept looking at him.
He looked up finally and mouthed "Thanks". He seemed relieved (I bet!).
As we all exited the court, we came together again and he seemed to want to talk. I said "I'm running late for a meeting with S15's teacher and have to run back through town to my car park before i can drive there'. XH offered me a lift!!
I was dumbstruck, but as I was going to miss the (important) meeting (never thought I'd have to be in court today), I said OK.
We all went down the narrow stairs together, me and XH abreast and OW taking up the rear.
Can you believe It?
I don't think I was going to do it, I was just going with the flow in a state of shock.
Halfway down, XH does a double take and stops to wait for poor OW, who was visibly fuming.
I am starting to think about what sort of wacky situation I have gotten myself into.. when OW blurts out in a voice choked with bile: "We are going shopping and and we won't be driving you anywhere".
I didn't react, as i had decided not even to acknowledge her presence.
After a short gap, XH bumbles out with 'Yes sorry about that.. i didn't think this was going to go on for so long today..."
i looked back at him, gave him my best mega-watt smile and said "That's OK, XH, I understand".
I then said "It was nice to see you today" and walked forward.
He stuttered out "What?" and I repeated myself.
I then said "I'm sure I'll see you again soon", gave him another mega-watt smile and took my sexy high heeled, pencil-skirted, tight-shirted, glossy-haired self out the courthouse door.
Later that day after the adrenalin had dissipated, I just about collapsed in a heap on the floor.
BTW, XH looked like he hadn't slept for days, and his signature looked like it'd been done by someone who'd had a stroke.
OMG NLW. I am just catching up on your sitch. What an a'hole.
I can't believe it. He just screwed you in court and then she sits by you and says that they are going shopping??? What a b*tch.
I hope karma knocks them in the you know what.
WH
My case isn't as extreme as yours, but now that W and I are finalizing the D I'm dealing with much the same thing as you where she keeps agreeing to terms but then changing her mind and wanting to skew things more in her favor. I've finally done like you did and agreed to an unfair (for me) settlement just to get it over with. Lesson I've learned from this- you can't negotiate with crazy people.
I then said "I'm sure I'll see you again soon", gave him another mega-watt smile and took my sexy high heeled, pencil-skirted, tight-shirted, glossy-haired self out the courthouse door.
LOVE IT!! Well played
BTW, XH looked like he hadn't slept for days, and his signature looked like it'd been done by someone who'd had a stroke.
LOL! He's finally getting the perfect life he always wanted (rolls eyes).
WH, AS,
Thanks for your support.
"Lesson I've learned from this- you can't negotiate with crazy people."
That pretty much sums up how I feel.
It's been like this for 2 and a half years.
Every time I want to post to someone on here, I feel like i will just point out how useless it is to try to engage with an mlc-er.
Best to just do what's right for you and walk away.
If they ever come to their senses, it won't be because of anything the LBS did.
Very negative, I know.
The other thing i didn't post about was how my XH now blames me for the failure of his businesses and the wastage of all our family savings. He did this in writing in his attempts to draft a settlement.
It's just SO BIZARRE that he would blame me for these two aspects of the demise of our relationship when the financial side of things was completely controlled by him (more fool me!).
But anyway, just another little insight into the madness of the mlc condition - in which everything has to be the LBS's fault.
I suppose most on here already know the story, but anyone in need of inspiration should google 'Madeleine Albright marriage' and see what can be achieved when your once-loving spouse announces "I just can't do this any more" and disappears with his OW.
Hey NLW
I just read about Madeleine Albright. Fascinating. I guess if she can make it, so can we, huh? Sounds like her ex had some issues as well.
My H blames everything on me as well. The fact the D has taken so long, the fact that he has no money, the fact that S is on the outs with him, the fact he is under scrutiny at his job, etc. All is my fault. And you know what? Fine. It's all my fault. Like you said you can't reason with a crazy person.
I wish I had that much power, you know?
WH
Hey all,
For anybody still following my story, a sort of finale.
Out of the blue, XH rang and told S15 he was coming over to speak to him in 2 mins time.
He arrived and shut himself in a back room with S15 and told him that he was getting married to OW.
I sort of knew that this was coming... two weeks ago we got repeated calls from FedEX saying that XH's parcel from USA was waiting to have customs duty paid on it before they could send it on.
Fed EX guy reported that it was "diamonds for XH name'.
Why on earth they had our home phone number after he hasn't lived here for 3 years, instead of XH's mobile, I don't know.
But anyway...
S15 was pretty much destroyed by the news and told XH that he hated him.
XH got on his high horse and yelled at S15 for 'abusing him'. Tried to drag me into it to chastise S. I didn't know about H's news at the time. He chose not to mention it to me at all.
And why should he I suppose.. I am nothing to him.
Anyway, XH left after 5 min in a huff and soon after S15 rang him to ask : "How can you spend so much money on diamonds for OW when you won't give D18 and I enough money to live on?"
XH refused to speak to S15 saying he was out to lunch at a restaurant with important visitors from overseas.
S15 was beyond angry, shaking and crying and continued to call. XH turned off his phone.
S15 texted him that he was coming to the restaurant (close to our home ) to speak to him.
XH must have sh-t himself, as when S got through to him on the phone about 10 mins later, he had left the restaurant and was driving somewhere.
S15 put his question again - How come you can afford diamonds when you keep telling us you have no money to give us? And how come you can be out to lunch at that pricey restaurant when you say you have no money?"
XH: "I have made a choice. I chose to give diamonds to the woman I love".
S15: "Why would you chose to spend money on her over me and D18?"
XH: Why do you think?"
S15: "Because she is rich and you are going to do to her the same as what you did to my mother".
XH then told S15 he had walked away from the marriage to me "with nothing", having left me with "Millions of dollars of assets including 2 cars".
(Change 'assets' to 'debts' and '2' to '0', and you'll have a clear idea of what I was actually left with)
As S15 gulped out, incredulous " Are you insane?"
The answer is, quite obviously, Yes. Completely.
So, a farcical ending to what has been, literally, an unbelievable life experience.
It's over.
You can't make this sh!t up.
Sigh. I'm sorry, NLW. For everything you have been through. Nobody deserves this, and especially not your kids.
I hope you find peace; and, when it's time, love.
((( )))
I hope you can help your son through this. He's hurting, a lot. Maybe the 3 of you could do counseling together. I know you have no money but I can't imagine there isn't some kind of counseling offered.
If not, try AlAnon, it can be of help.
I wish you peace.
I am so sorry NLW for what all of you have been through... I am so sorry for your son. With all my heart I am sending you love and praying for peace and harmony to enter your lives sooner rather than later.
This Sh1t is just heart breaking. Despite all that we have learned I still can't comprehend the pain and emotional abuse these walk aways can inflict on their own children.
(((((((NLW))))))
NLW,
I am so sorry to hear about this.
You know I have followed your sitch from the beginning.
I know how much you are hurting and I wish it wasn't so.
Yet, I wanted to post to you to talk about your kids...
This has been a long and nasty saga with your H. I am not here to talk about what may be wrong with him (you have been focusing your energy and emotions on trying to figure that out for the longest time...)
Whatever is wrong with him is NOT your problem.
What you need to concentrate on is on how you can protect your kids.
Regardless of money and how things end, you have to help the kids. You have to try to provide peace and stability for them.
How?
From this post and many others before, it seems like your kids know all the details of your issues with your H. I know they are older and they obviously know you are struggling financially because they live that every day, but do they need the play by play?
For instance, how did your S find out that there were diamonds coming from abroad?
I know when we are in the middle of pain and grief we want to share and your kids being there makes it easy for us to rely on them for emotional support. Yet, the problem with sharing things about the M with them is that then they take on the role of trying to support YOU.
Most of the times, when there is a D, the kids end up taking on the burden and blaming themselves for it. It takes a lot of love, support and re-assurance of the contrary to dispel that belief.
If on top of that they learn on all the issues and they see you down and hurt and in victim-mode, that places even more of a burdern on them.
Throughout your situation, why have your kids constantly tried to take on the role of defending you?
That is NOT their place.
So I encourage you to ask yourself - What have I done through all of this that has put them in that sitch?
It's a very tough question, but you need to ask yourself.
Do not revert to the easy answer of - "MY H is crazy and they have seen it all through his actions."
Because there are a lot of things and details about your sitch that there was no way your kids would have found out just by your H's actions (like the diamonds).
Think about this - you could have just said that the currier was looking into delivering a package and had a wrong answer. End of story.
Don't you think that knowing that there were diamonds for OW added salt on an open wound that they have been witness of for so long?
Please - think about this...
In my opinion, your kids have been exposed to way, way too much on this D (by both of you). You cannot control your XH, but you can control you.
Show them a strong woman. Get out of victim-mode and teach them how to behave and deal with their grief in a healthy way. Because life will bring more of that now and later in their lives as adults.
For instance, where are you when they yell to their dad in person or on the phone or when your S threatens to show up at a restaurant? Do you think that is a healthy response to your son's pain?
PLEASE know that I am NOT trying to discount your son's feelings. He is IN MASSIVE, MASSIVE PAIN - and YOU can be the one to guide him thru how to deal with it in a healthy way.
Yet, in order to do so, YOU also need to learn how to deal with your own pain in a healthy way.
I urge you to immediately seek counseling for you and your kids - both individual and family therapy so all of you can find peace and emotional help so your lives moving forward are NOT defined by this most painful, painful situation.
Please - come back and post about the things you are doing to improve your life and that of your kids...
We have learned all the details of what an A-hole your XH can be (and so have your kids). In my opinion, way too many details.
He doesn't deserve this much space in your mind and your life (and that of your kids) and it has only kept you stuck.
You know I really care about you, NLW...
I want to see you and your kids HAPPY and THRIVING, not just surviving.
((((((((NLW)))))))
I want to clarify when I said the 3 of you, I meant your D, S and you.
Yeah, thanks Bug. I meant the same as well, counseling for the three of you, not with your H.
My point is to try to shield your life and that of your kids from all of your H's crazyness as much as you can. That in itself will be very difficult, since he does a lot of crazy things that hurt them by himself, so counseling as a family unit for the three of you could help bring a lot of healing.
((((((NLW)))))))
To those who have posted regarding NLW and her lack of shielding her kid's from her ex's insanity.
Just to clarify kid's are not stupid. My kids can see that their dad isn't normal. They tell me all the time that dad is mean to them. They cling to me when they are with me. You cannot shelter them from this kind of insanity. My six year old sees it and asks me uncomfortable questions. It is not easy. As I said on my own thread, I will do what I can to keep a relationship going between the kid's and their father, but I will be dammed if I will make excuses for him.
So please do not tell NLW that she isn't doing enough for her kids. It's hard enough to be the rock and try to do all the "right" things without others telling you that you aren't doing enough.
I think NLW has been abused enough. She needs our kindness.
I do agree counseling may help.
WH
Wishing,
Thanks for posting and trying to defend NLW.
I wasn't attacking her at all, and perhaps I touched on a sensitive fiber in you...IDK.
Just to clarify kid's are not stupid. My kids can see that their dad isn't normal. They tell me all the time that dad is mean to them. They cling to me when they are with me. You cannot shelter them from this kind of insanity. My six year old sees it and asks me uncomfortable questions. It is not easy. As I said on my own thread, I will do what I can to keep a relationship going between the kid's and their father, but I will be dammed if I will make excuses for him.
I agree 100% that kids are not stupid.
I agree 100% that they see their dad's behavior (mine and NLW's and all of ours do).
Nobody is asking NLW to excuse, defend her H's behavior. I suggested that she doesn't add any more to their pain. I know it's not on purpose, but we can all fall into this trap.
Precisely because kids are NOT stupid, we need to be MORE careful of what we say to them, in front of them and when they are around. Because they are NOT stupid, we need to watch our actions and the example we set so they learn from us.
And I think NLW will be the first one to tell you that her reactions - in front of her kids - to things her H has said or done has not always been the best.
And that doesn't help them to deal with this situation.
And so that is why I asked - how did he find out about the diamonds? Or the trips and lifestyle and the things her H does when he is NOT with them - because somehow the kids have learned all that info - AND IT DOESN'T HELP THEM.
My point is that WE, as the "sane" ones, like NLW, can try to make this situation less traumatic and chaotic for our kids. My point is that WE don't need to ADD any more to the saga that our selfish spouses are bringing.
So please do not tell NLW that she isn't doing enough for her kids. It's hard enough to be the rock and try to do all the "right" things without others telling you that you aren't doing enough.
Wishing, I can understand that you don't agree with my POV. Yet, because I care about NLW and I have been with her thru her sitch from the beginning and because this forum is for us to provide help to each other, I will tell her how I think she can help her kids if I think it can provide some insight for HER.
No matter how good we are as parents, we can always improve and if I see there is something concrete and constructive she can do to help her kids, why can't I tell her?
BTW, Wishing, I never said she wasn't doing enough for her kids. That was your interpretation of my words.
Because we all know how abusive NLW's H has been, she and her kids need to learn how to deal with that abuse in a healthy way.
That doesn't mean NLW makes excuses for his B.
For instance - the way her H told their S about his M to OW - COMPLETELY SELFISH AND UNACCEPTABLE.
After H left, perhaps NLW could have approached it differently to help her son cope with such a traumatic experience.
(Which BTW, was ALSO very traumatic for NLW, since she didn't even know herself about the M or that H was planning to tell her son.)
She could have sat down and tried to talk to her S about his feelings and help him deal with them.
I asked NLW how she reacted and where she was when her S started calling H back and threatening to go to the restaurant, because that would have been a good opportunity for them to approach such a traumatic experience TOGETHER and in a healthy way, rather than her son lashing out at her H (which is the exact behavior that her crazy H has taught them all throughout all of this).
NLW's H is clearly not right. So she and her kids will need tools to deal with the next crazy move - and they will keep coming - after D, after he marries OW, and forever. So it is how SHE reacts and the example SHE sets for her kids that will make the difference here.
I don't think there is anything wrong with telling her that. The beauty of this forum is that we can get support, love, kindness and also well-indended and much needed different perspectives to our own thinking, which ultimately is what helps us grow.
NLW - I send you my love and a huge hug - you know where I come from. (((((((((NLW))))))))))
Hey guys,
Thanks for coming by to help...
I'm rushing off to work atm, but just a quick post for clarification:
"For instance, how did your S find out that there were diamonds coming from abroad?"
The kids took about 4 of the 5 or so phone calls that we received over a period of a couple of days about this from FedEX. FedEX people were so keen to get their money, and kept threatening to "send the diamonds back to NY". I took the last of the calls and as far as i knew, the diamonds went back.
"For instance, where are you when they yell to their dad in person or on the phone or when your S threatens to show up at a restaurant? "
I don't think S15 yelled at his dad either in person or on the phone; he just told him that he hated him for what he had done.
S15 told his dad he was coming to the restaurant to speak to him (after XH refused to take his calls) via text. I didn't know about it till later.
How do they know abut his spending on restaurants, bars, cafes and holidays....
they see him - he sits outdoors at all of these places in our small village. His car is parked out the front of various establishments that we have to drive by to get to out house. He is in our faces.
He also reports to them about all the great things he's doing (sailing, football memberships, golf, holidays, travel, cars, the food he eats [ribs, lobster, steak], etc etc). Sometimes the kids' grandparents spill the beans too "Oh, your dad will be back in the country tomorrow, bet you'll be pleased to see him after all this time?" when we didn't know he'd been away..
We also still get regular phone calls from debt collectors trying to find him. Sometimes it's just automated calls saying that he will be prosecuted if he doesn't respond; other times it's hard-case callers who get real nasty when we say he doesn't live here. Some of these calls have even gone to the kids' mobile phone numbers. I can't begin to fathom why or how this happens.
Stuff like that.
It's really so crazy and unbelievable, if you knew what sort of life we had originally....
NLW,
Thanks for posting and clarifying.
I am so sorry for what you and your kids have been dealing with. It's been clear for you and a lot of us who have been with you from the beginning on this crazy journey that your H is not all there....
So, what can NLW do?
I would hate for you to feel like you are powerless... Yes, he is an a-hole, and a con-man, but you are a strong, strong woman, who has proven you can survive anything. So now, it's time to take control of this crazy ride and turn the tide around IN YOUR FAVOR.
Not easy, but not impossible. (and you have proven you are amazing!)
The kids took about 4 of the 5 or so phone calls that we received over a period of a couple of days about this from FedEX. FedEX people were so keen to get their money, and kept threatening to "send the diamonds back to NY". I took the last of the calls and as far as i knew, the diamonds went back.
Can you switch your home number or disconnect it? It's become less common to have a land line and if you and your kids have mobile phones, this could be an option. Otherwise, can you talk to your kids and instruct them not to answer the phone at home? You can do so or you can screen your calls by letting them go to voice mail and just returning the calls that are from friends and relatives. That way you can screen out collectors, calls for your H and even his own calls, when he is crazy and impulsive and YOU can decide when it's appropriate for him to talk to your kids...
With all the abuse he has inflicted on you and your kids, you have every right to determine how and when he communicates to you AND the kids. And he'd better not threaten you or try to accuse you of parental alienation... you know why? because you have more than enough proof of his abuse and no court will listen to that ridiculous claim, shall he try to threaten you or bully you that way...
I don't think S15 yelled at his dad either in person or on the phone; he just told him that he hated him for what he had done.
S15 told his dad he was coming to the restaurant to speak to him (after XH refused to take his calls) via text. I didn't know about it till later.
How do they know abut his spending on restaurants, bars, cafes and holidays....
they see him - he sits outdoors at all of these places in our small village. His car is parked out the front of various establishments that we have to drive by to get to out house. He is in our faces.
He also reports to them about all the great things he's doing (sailing, football memberships, golf, holidays, travel, cars, the food he eats [ribs, lobster, steak], etc etc). Sometimes the kids' grandparents spill the beans too "Oh, your dad will be back in the country tomorrow, bet you'll be pleased to see him after all this time?" when we didn't know he'd been away..
Sweet, NLW.
All of this ^^^^ is why it's so crucial that both you and your kids go to counseling. So you can learn new tools on how to deal with all this garbage and your H's selfishness. So you can all learn how to set healthy boundaries when he is abusive. So you and your kids can learn that this is not about ANY OF YOU, but about him and that YOU GUYS DON'T DESERVE ANY OF THIS.
I hear you - living in a small town makes it so, so much harder. I cannot even imagine... That is why it's so important to be emotionally strong and ready to deal with your H when you guys run into him and so you can all learn how to deal with all your emotions - hurt, anger, disappointment, resentment, sadness, everything in a healthy way that can help you guys take control of your lives and move forward.
I know finances are tough, but perhaps there's some type of aid or support groups you can qualify for? There might be some organizations that help with aid or counseling? IDK, but it's worth looking into it, right?
We also still get regular phone calls from debt collectors trying to find him. Sometimes it's just automated calls saying that he will be prosecuted if he doesn't respond; other times it's hard-case callers who get real nasty when we say he doesn't live here. Some of these calls have even gone to the kids' mobile phone numbers. I can't begin to fathom why or how this happens.
Stuff like that.
It's really so crazy and unbelievable, if you knew what sort of life we had originally....
Yeah, screening calls is imperative. I had to do so when my H was in his angry phase. I never answered any of his calls - at home or on my mobile. I always heard the messages and only responded to those concerning the kids by email. I think we didn't talk in person or by phone or texted each other in a few months until things calmed down.
I think you and your kids can implement those boundaries (and I know boundaries has been a topic covered on your threads before. Perhaps go back and re-read some of the advice you got back then? it's all still applicable.)
Bottom line, there is no law or rule that says you or your kids need to talk to him UNTIL AND UNLESS IT WORKS FOR YOU, NOT FOR HIM.
And at the first moment he starts abusing either of you, you guys hang up or leave the room. Period. There are calm and reasonable ways of doing so w/o escalating the situation. Specially dealing with an abusive husband requires certain actions and behaviors to protect your emotional health.
Lots of resources out there also on the web.
You can do this!!!
And you are REALLY, REALLY worth it, don't you think?
((((((NLW)))))))
(((NLW)))
Been right beside you and will continue to be. You have stood as long as possible and hoped for your H to show some signs of human behaviour. Once in a while he did, but obviously that was the abnormal, not his normal.
Take care of you and your babies.
Thanks Melissa,
It helped me to hear, again, "You can't make this sh!t up"
I still have moments where I can't believe this is happening to me.
Even now, I sometimes get flashes of "He's my H, he can't MARRY someone else"
These moments are getting fewer and farther between... I think because i have so little contact with him now that I sometimes fall back on memories of him as the man I used to know. I have to keep reminding myself that that man is long gone.
Busting, labug,
Thank you so much for keeping up with my sitch and responding with care and concern here.
As you know, I especially think of you guys when I'm in awkward situations with my XH - e.g. in court, and when OW is in my face.
I recite your names like a mantra and imagine you as little beacons of light and support glowing all around the world. You help me so much to keep my thoughts clear and my actions calm.
I'm aiming for peace these days, just as you hope for me too.
I even hope that XH can find peace - mainly for selfish reasons, I will admit!
Your posts helped me through the hard time of last weekend (when XH announced to S15 that he was getting married) and reminded me that I need to focus on my kids at this time.
WH,
Thank you for your amazing support. I know how hard it is to get on here and respond to everyone else when you are struggling yourself, so i really appreciate you being there for me!
My experience is like yours - that you cannot shield kids from this type of insanity... I'll admit that I could be doing a better job, but, it's HARD, as you know. My XH says and does strange unpredictable, cruel things to our kids (my POV, I know) and I feel like I'm constantly just picking up the broken pieces that he leaves.
But anyway.. the responses I've received here have worked to remind me that i can't drop the ball with respect to my kids.
This "News' from XH has really shattered them - and I need to keep working hard to ensure that they are as OK as can be. Sometimes its easy to focus too much on yourself or feel like it's all some sort of crazy dream that cannot possibly be real.
k_g
Thanks so much for your posts - they really helped me to think more about my kids and what they are going through. I wanted to reply in detail to some of the points you made, so I'll do it in a couple of separate posts.
What you need to concentrate on is on how you can protect your kids.
Regardless of money and how things end, you have to help the kids. You have to try to provide peace and stability for them.
How?
This got me re-focued on them as soon as I saw it. Last weekend I did a lot of comfort-food cooking with them, and we talked a lot about how we were feeling - S15 especially opened up and had several talks with me.
I'm just trying to be a lot more observant of them, taking more time with them and showing more compassion and understanding for them. D18 is pretty much in blow-up/oppositional mode most of the time, so I have been focusing hard on trying to de-fuse that and remain calm and understanding.
I let S15 use his savings to buy himself a new phone that he needed, whereas in the past i would have insisted he get his dad to organise one through his phone company (S15 had been trying for months to get XH to give him one, to no avail).
I gave up my feelings of what was 'fair' and 'right', and allowed S15 to take the action that he wanted to. I did not try to fight a battle with XH through S15.
Throughout your situation, why have your kids constantly tried to take on the role of defending you?
That is NOT their place.
So I encourage you to ask yourself - What have I done through all of this that has put them in that sitch?
It's a very tough question, but you need to ask yourself.
Yes, I have taken this on-board...don't know if i have all the answers yet, but it's put me on notice to try to do things differently in future. If others can see this, then something needs to be done to change.
Do not revert to the easy answer of - "MY H is crazy and they have seen it all through his actions."
Because there are a lot of things and details about your sitch that there was no way your kids would have found out just by your H's actions (like the diamonds).
Yeah, I take your point... and it is easy to revert to the 'he's crazy' account. When I heard S15's final phone conversation with XH last weekend, S15 did say to him, at one point : "You're insane", followed by "Are you high? What are you on?".
The kids are faced with a lot of stuff that is really difficult to make sense of.
It's hard to explain here, but a lot of what XH says to them involves attempts to completely re-write their history of our family life, and the kids know that what he is saying is "complete BS" - as S15 also told him on the phone.
Show them a strong woman. Get out of victim-mode and teach them how to behave and deal with their grief in a healthy way. Because life will bring more of that now and later in their lives as adults.
I tried this during the week and was, fortuitously, really successful. I have started volunteering and it has almost immediately come back to reward me.
Ended up with a dinner invite to a VIP experience around a new sports facility in our town and admission to a couple of 'money-can't-buy' experiences for me and the kids.
Plus a lot of new people that we've all met.
I took so long to reply to all you guys on here because I have been so busy going out and having fun with the kids this week!
PLEASE know that I am NOT trying to discount your son's feelings. He is IN MASSIVE, MASSIVE PAIN - and YOU can be the one to guide him thru how to deal with it in a healthy way.
I have done as you suggested and think I was pretty successful in helping him open up to me. He even acknowledged that I seem different and less stressed and more understanding.
This helps me understand, in turn, that I'm dealing with my own feelings in a healthier way.
You know I really care about you, NLW...
I want to see you and your kids HAPPY and THRIVING, not just surviving.
I do know this k_g, and I appreciate your help and guidance.
k_g,
Just wanted to respond to some of the other points you made here.
Wishing,
Nobody is asking NLW to excuse, defend her H's behavior. I suggested that she doesn't add any more to their pain. I know it's not on purpose, but we can all fall into this trap.
This is a timely reminder, and i took it on-board last week, so thanks k_g. Hope I don't let it slip too much again, and hope someone will call me on it if they see.
And I think NLW will be the first one to tell you that her reactions - in front of her kids - to things her H has said or done has not always been the best.
Yep!
My point is that WE, as the "sane" ones, like NLW, can try to make this situation less traumatic and chaotic for our kids. My point is that WE don't need to ADD any more to the saga that our selfish spouses are bringing.
This really hit home for me.
No matter how good we are as parents, we can always improve and if I see there is something concrete and constructive she can do to help her kids, why can't I tell her?
k_g, I appreciate it, thanks. I feel like I get a lot from others' perspectives, and I often struggle, so keep it coming, please.
NLW's H is clearly not right. So she and her kids will need tools to deal with the next crazy move - and they will keep coming - after D, after he marries OW, and forever. So it is how SHE reacts and the example SHE sets for her kids that will make the difference here.
Yes, I needed to hear this.
I don't think there is anything wrong with telling her that. The beauty of this forum is that we can get support, love, kindness and also well-indended and much needed different perspectives to our own thinking, which ultimately is what helps us grow.
Absolutely - although I will admit that it was nice to see people taking up the cudgels to support and defend me where they thought it might be needed... thank you ALL for the support that you so unfailingly provide here.
Some more points to respond to
So, what can NLW do?
I would hate for you to feel like you are powerless... Yes, he is an a-hole, and a con-man, but you are a strong, strong woman, who has proven you can survive anything. So now, it's time to take control of this crazy ride and turn the tide around IN YOUR FAVOR.
Not easy, but not impossible. (and you have proven you are amazing!)
Yes, you are right. I have been doing things differently for a while now - the old GAL advice and looking for ways to do stuff with the kids that is low-cost. For example, we go to the movies on 'cheap night' regularly now. And there is so much to be learned - most of the stuff we've seen lately has been about people over-coming immense personal suffering (Rush, 12 Years a Slave, Dallas Buyers club, Saving Mr Banks, Philomena). All good for showing my kids that people can and do survive and thrive. And great talking points for emotions, too.
It makes us all so close. I'm modelling to them how to meet new people and the benefits of volunteering. And in my professional life, I'm reaping the benefits of taking time to really listen to others, and show interest in what they are doing. I used to be so focused on my family - XH and kids - that i didn't feel the need to reach out to others (told myself I had no time.)
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you can screen your calls by letting them go to voice mail and just returning the calls that are from friends and relatives. That way you can screen out collectors, calls for your H and even his own calls, when he is crazy and impulsive and YOU can decide when it's appropriate for him to talk to your kids...
This seems like a good and simple solution!
With all the abuse he has inflicted on you and your kids, you have every right to determine how and when he communicates to you AND the kids. And he'd better not threaten you or try to accuse you of parental alienation... you know why? because you have more than enough proof of his abuse and no court will listen to that ridiculous claim, shall he try to threaten you or bully you that way...
Not totally convinced about this - and it is his constant refrain these days.. but interesting to hear your perspective.
I know finances are tough, but perhaps there's some type of aid or support groups you can qualify for? There might be some organizations that help with aid or counseling? IDK, but it's worth looking into it, right?
Yes, finances are tricky as well as tough - I actually earn a decent salary, so don't qualify for anything welfare related or reduced in terms of cost. Of course, more than all of my healthy salary goes in re-paying the debts XH left us with, so that is the kicker. But I will keep trying to see what sort of help I can get. At the moment, though, physical and dental health issues are my priority - before all our teeth fall out from neglect, for instance!
And at the first moment he starts abusing either of you, you guys hang up or leave the room. Period. There are calm and reasonable ways of doing so w/o escalating the situation. Specially dealing with an abusive husband requires certain actions and behaviors to protect your emotional health.
Lots of resources out there also on the web.
Yes, thanks for this reminder. I will try to get onto changing this.
You can do this!!!
And you are REALLY, REALLY worth it, don't you think?
Yes. Sometimes I think I'm pretty hot stuff!
Hello there
I know no one is against NLW and I know others mean well. But I know what she's going too and I just wanted to reiterate that it is not easy when children are involved. I feel empathy for NLW. I feel for the kids. I experience it every day myself.
NLW your H is absolutely bonkers. He's mad as a hatter. I wish I could give you the magic formula for protecting those kids but I have no magic solution. It's so hard and often you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.
I do think counseling for all three of you is a marvelous idea. I know money is an issue. Do you have access to a counselor? I know my counselor was a Godsend for me. I started getting stronger and discovering the strength and power I had inside. I started remembering the WH from long ago. And I like her.
(((NLW))) we are all on your side!
WH
Hey guys,
Just felt the need to get something out of my system.
It's Easter and XMIL has asked the kids and me over for lunch (like we always did as a family).
We haven't seen or heard from them for months.
Likewise XH - who has gone NC since he announced to S15 that he was getting married.
I'm dreading going to visit Xparents-in-law.
I keep running through what I'm going to say when they ask questions.
Like: What have you been doing over Easter break?
Oh, just the usual. Washing, ironing, cleaning, gardening, repairing, shopping for food, driving S15 and D18 all over town, falling down dead from fatigue...
Have you seen XH?
No, we don't frequent the sorts of places he goes to on a daily basis - the cafes, restaurants, bars, expensive shops.... Plus I believe he's been on numerous holidays overseas and interstate again and so he's rarely here.
How are your (elderly and frail) parents, NLW.
Depressed and ill as well as broken, financially, by your son, who stole their life savings.
Why hasn't D18 got her drivers' licence yet?
Because she is depressed to the point that she can't act or make a decision. She has been lumped with a wreck of an old car by her father, and she is unable to pay to get it moved out of our driveway.
Why is she so angry?
Because she has been abandoned financially by her father and has had to pay for her own education, clothes, lifestyle on the back of doing 6 hours work a week as a casual checkout operator.
And, to top it all off.. Here are your easter eggs, NLW.
Thank you. Sorry that I can't give you any in return. But you know that i have been left with massive debts and that your son does not pay child support.. so I don't have enough even to buy food for your grandchildren, let alone chocolate for you.
So, got that out of my system, I hope.
I suppose i will just smile and avoid and act like everything is just great for the kids and me.
I can't get over the feeling that XH is getting away with everything.
His parents seem content to act as if we've just had a 'normal' marriage breakdown and divorce, and that he's just moved on with a new relationship.
I know that people will tell me that the truth will out, without the need for me to divulge the dirty details.... it's just a feeling of unfairness that I have to work out of my system by venting here.
In case it sounds like i'm focusing purely on XH... we have really been relishing this time of NC from him and putting him out of our thoughts.
The contact from his parents has brought it all back up... I would rather not see them, but that's not good for the kids.
They have said that they don't want to go on their own.
I'm sick of faking everything.
(((NLW)))
We are all thinking of you! Take care of yourself and the kid's. Be true to your soul!
WH
I was in a similar situation back in November. It was a few weeks after my H moved out, and my in-laws said they were going to be in town, and wanted to go to breakfast with me. I started off doing the same thing you did - I was dreading it, I was trying to figure out what they were going to say and how they were going to act, and how I was going to respond and how I was going to react, and boy was it exhausting.
I decided (with the help of some more level headed DB friends!) to go into it with no expectations. Just open heart, open mind. So I did. And honestly, it was lovely. Probably the best time I have ever had with them.
Try to remember that your in-laws are not your H. They are not responsible for his behavior (hell, they probably don't even know about most of it!), and they are probably hurting too. Try to focus less on the fact that they haven't been in touch for a while, and focus on the fact that they reached out and want to spend time with you and the kids. It will probably feel awkward for them, too.
If I were you, I would just stay off the topic of your H completely. You don't have to fake anything - but you also don't have to tell the whole truth or vent. Think about what you would tell someone who is a casual acquaintance. When that kind of person asks how you are, you know you're supposed to say "great" even if you're not.
If they start asking specific questions, you can just say that you are glad to be with them and would love to just enjoy celebrating the holiday together.
Good luck . . . I can't even imagine what you are going through right now, and I know you have been through so much already - but who knows? - maybe you can have a pleasant R with your in-laws.
Hey WH, Melissa,
Thanks for your support on this.
Of course, i did not say a word to them about XH. I never do.
We had an OK time, but it was sad to be there and be reminded again of what we have lost.
S15 looked like he was about to cry most of the time...
I can't get over the feeling that by not talking about what XH has done, we are all enabling his egregious behaviour. I think his parents have done this all of his life.
And they are so insensitive:
Oh, NLW, we have just bought this terrific thermo cooker. It cost $2,500. You should get one - it'd be prefect for you to cook for the kids in one pot and so quickly.
And: Oh NLW does your mother still drive?
No, she had to give us her car.
Oh well, good thing, I suppose, at her age...
Like WTF?
But anyway, no longer my place to try to put the brakes on XH, nor is it my concern. And if his parents want to ignore what he's done to us... that's their prerogative too.
I got a tension headache from being there though - all that fake smiling, and trying to think of what to say next.
Anyway, I'll get over it, but hope i don't have to see them again soon. It's too painful. They seem only to want to wheel us out for 'festival ' days - Easter and Xmas, none of the hard day-to-day slog. Again, makes me mad but that's just who they are.
Why did you go? It seems you knew it was going to drag up a lot of stuff?
Do you think your ILs are happy people?
Lots of questions, I know. I hope today is a better day for you.
the second sentence isn't meant to be a question
Why did you go? It seems you knew it was going to drag up a lot of stuff?
Labug, Good question. This really got me thinking.
I agreed to their invitation because it was the right thing to do.
To me, when someone is kind enough to invite you to a meal in their home, you go along unless you have a good reason not to.
I think I have a lot of these ideas about doing things because it is the 'right thing'.
Also, the kids wanted to see their grandparents but needed me to drive them there (they live a fairly long way away). They can't understand why they seem to be so uninvolved in our lives now.
I have tried to maintain a good relationship with them, but in the last 6 months or so, they have been increasingly NC (this coincided with the looming undefended trial over assets).
I suppose it was in the back of my mind that if I rebuffed their invitation, I would be pegged as the poisonous bit_h that my XH says I am - keeping him and his parents away from our kids.
Do you think your ILs are happy people?
I don't know if they are happy... I think they are kind of nutty.
Conflict avoiders and silent tolerators of things that should be brought out in the open.
The father was morbidly obese until he had to have part of his oesophagus and stomach removed due to cancer recently. He is the king of inappropriate comments, insensitive taunts and juvenile smutty jokes.
The mother wouldn't say boo to a goose, but keeps feeding her husband fatty, sugary food until he is fit to burst.
Their other son is an alcoholic, but no one mentions the fact that he sleeps overnight in pub carparks when he is too drunk to drive.. and there are constant jokes about the time he vomited all over his infant son who was lying next to him in bed, after another night on the tiles....
The family patriarch, XH's grandfather, was a successful businessman who sent his young children to boarding school even though he lived in the same city as them. His son, XH's father, dropped out of university and ran away to the farthest reaches of our country to take a menial job as soon as he was married. His sons have slipped further down the ladder: XH's brother stopped work to go on the dole aged 30; XH of course is now living off his second female victim.
So no, I doubt that they are 'happy people' in my way of thinking about what should make one happy. But, I also doubt that they are sufficiently self-aware even to contemplate the question.
Well, phew, glad I got that out of my system!
Lots of questions, I know. I hope today is a better day for you.
I am also watching Game of Thrones from the start in a sort of marathon with S15. It's his favourite show and although i am worried by the language and sex scenes that crop up, I realise that as he's already seen it, i might as well get in there and discuss these things with him. Challenging, but a good bonding opportunity.
So glad you went to your IL. I think everyone no matter how eloquent doesnt know what to say or ask in this awkward situations. Of course they asked some odd questions but I think its hard for everyone. It was nice that they included you.
How lucky are we to have healthy & beautiful kids??!!
Have you joined any self help groups, they really have helped me get practical advice on daily hard situations?
Also I know its tough with the older kids but just do your best to tell them "even though it doesnt seem like it right now, your dad loves you so much" I am sure he does loves them, he is just being very selfish right now.
Hang in there, this is hard sh!t
(((NLW)))
My kids are with their dad for the majority of spring break. My son hates it. He wants to be with me, but right now there isn't anything I can do about it. I hate telling him to make the best of it, but it is what it is.
One day these MLC'ers will have to face the fallout from their kids. And I cannot imagine anything more hurtful that your own child wanting nothing to do with you. That is tragic. If your X or my X cannot see that, then it is their loss.
We can just protect ourselves and our kids the best way possible. That is to move ahead and leave these guys to flop around like a fish out of water. My counselor says as long as the kids have me they will be okay.
Take care of yourself.
WH
Hey Bklyn,
Good to hear from you!
Thanks for the suggestion about SH groups - I sure can use some help with the day-to-day stuff. I will find out what's on offer around here.
Re the kids, yes, they are a blessing and I can't imagine how any one can choose to be without them.
I do tell my kids that dad can't help what he's doing; that he's going through some turmoil but that he loves them deeply and always will.
Last time I said this to S15, though, he replied
"It's not that i don't think he loves me... it's that i don't love him any more."
At this point he broke down and cried and asked
"Do you know what it's like not to love your father?"
All I could say was "No, I don't".
It broke my heart.
Yesterday he said, out of the blue:
"How come, if he loves me, he comes over and announces he's getting married and then just doesn't come back?" [XH has been completely NC for over a month since he arrived on our doorstep unexpectedly and stayed for 5 mins to tell S15 - and only S15 - his news]
"If he cares about me, why would he do that? And why does he keep telling me he cares when he treats me like that?"
The mis-match between how XH treats them and the guy that his parents refer to when we are there for a family lunch is just a bit hard to take.
It's like we all want to tell them what an a-hole he really is to us because they see him as exactly the same good ol' guy.
So yeah, this is hard [censored]... more for them these days than for me. I can leave this guy behind, but the kids can't.
But... worse stuff happens to people. We are healthy and privileged to live the sort of life that we do. Got to take the best we can out of the situation we find ourselves in.
Why did you go? It seems you knew it was going to drag up a lot of stuff?
I agreed to their invitation because it was the right thing to do.
This "family" situations are difficult, aren't they? All that duty stuff mixed in even when people clearly aren't acting like family.
Food for thought, what do these people add to your life and is seeing them for a couple of hours and being miserable worth whatever they add?
I used to have a lot of rules about life and family duty and doing the "right thing". Nearly drove myself crazy. What I finally figured out was, I was putting a lot of effort into R that weren't healthy. In many instances "they" were doing things out of a feeling of duty and I reciprocated out of a feeling of duty.
These were people in my life who ignored boundaries, were sarcastic and sometimes downright mean. There was no real love or caring and I usually felt generally dissatisfied and taken advantage of after.
So I decided to really think about those "duty" visits. Now I visit who I want, when I want, not as a matter of duty. Sometimes it's "those" people but I visit on my terms. My terms include an internal rule-I stay for 30 minutes, longer if I'm enjoying myself or I politely take my leave when the crap starts. If "they" want to talk because I'm not meeting their expectations, let them. I know the truth of the matter.
We each have to figure out what's OK for us, just a different perspective.
NLW,
I've read your entire 10 pages here, and just want to say thank your for being such a great example for me. As with you, my H has been acting crazy, even bizarre at times. Your sitch is much worse than mine, as H and I have no children together. Yet you've done so well at DB-ing. I have a STBX H that is monstering stranger, since Jan of this year. I miss my old H and best friend. Your ex H exhibits so many of the bizarre B that mine does. I'll not be too surprised if my H is married in not to distant future.
Please keep us posted on your lives.
Hi All, just a v quick note here to say that i have been MIA due to a the unannounced cancellation of the phone and internet accounts at our house.
As those of you will know who have been reading here, our family business was a phone company and XH organised all extended family access to landlines, mobiles and internet. Last week, ours were all stopped without notice.
When S15 asked his father to please re-connect the internet so he and his sister could do their school/university study (most of this is online and in e-format), he was told that they had been rude and that their mother would have to provide this service from now on.
I spoke to him briefly to say that I could not afford to re-connect, but he put on a mocking, whiney voice and told me to stop playing my violin.
He then hung up on me, mid-sentence.
D18 then contacted him to ask for internet but he also refused her... and then asked her to come with him on a holiday to London for a month - and said she should come with him to New York next year. We live on the other side of the world and he is still being chased by debt collectors. She asked him how he could afford this and he said "I'm borrowing the money".
I feel like I'm going a bit crazy here...
It's v time-consuming not having any phone or internet access and I am struggling a bit atm.
XH just keeps coming at us... seems like many people experience the same thing. These guys just never stop being mean, nasty, and in my case, seriously de-stabilising.
I am so sorry, NLW. This guy is an absolute jerk.
Can the kids go to the local library for internet access? Or perhaps somewhere with wifi? It seems to be everywhere. There has to be a solution.
You are not the crazy one. He is.
WH
Just a quick update... I don't post much these days as I no longer have internet access from home. But I still read up on everyone as often as I can.
I rarely have contact with XH anymore, and he no longer contacts the kids much at all.
He may be married to OW by now, we don't know.
I am trying to keep our lives as full as I can. I am still shackled by massive debt and my place of work recently canvased for voluntary redundancies - indicating that involuntary would follow if not enough people came forward...
I know enough now to know that i will survive no matter what.
I still get the feeling, occasionally, that this can't really have happened to me.. but most of the time, I just get on with things.
I still struggle also with the feeling that I need XH to realise that he made a mistake. I used to be convinced that he would come back to us... now I just imagine that he'll eventually realise that he made the biggest mistake of his life and appear crying on our doorstep one day.
I'll get over this fantasy too, eventually, but the reality is that I'm still not over the trauma. I now have no desire to see him - this is a big change from previous times when i would always hover if he came to see the kids - but I'm still defined by the fact that he left us in what was a classic mlc. I guess I'll get there in time - recovery from something like this is a slow process.
Despite everything, I'm really much happier with myself - as a competent, compassionate, capable, resourceful, reasonable human being - than i ever was before. And recognising how much I've changed makes me feel good.
I'm almost at the three year mark since BD now - so I'm sending out this message of hope to anyone who's reading.
It does get better, and you will grow in ways that you never thought possible.
(((NLW)))
I too have that fantasy of H coming back and saying what a mistake he has made. But more so that I may slam the door in his face than to welcome him with open arms. I still have visions of wearing a red sequin dress to his funeral. Just kidding. Sort of.
Just take all the time you need. No rushing. Just praying. Giving it to God. Your X isn't as happy as he wants you to believe he is. They are not capable of it. Just remember that. They will always be miserable. And the bigger the show the harder they are trying to hide what is behind the curtain.
WH
So glad you checked in NLW, we miss you around these parts.
You are doing amazing!! Wow - you finally see that it was not you and that he is a selfish lunatic.
Thank god for these boards. Lets teach our kids how to act with grace even during the hardest of times.