I'm not sure what is going on. DH wants out, I think. He said it during a fight a few weeks ago and so far hasn't indicated things have changed. The past year or two he has seemed a lot less into me but every once in a while he would tell me things about how unhappy he is. How he needs help. How he feels he has failed. This all started around his 40th birthday.
I mentioned separating to him once a few months ago. I didn't want it but I was wondering about his distance and told him I was lonely and asked if that is what he wanted. Then we made love later that night and I assumed we had gotten past it all. One weekend without the kids and it all came crashing down. He doesn't want to be married. This life we created isn't working. He doesn't want to fight. He doesn't want me to be lonely. He doesn't love me anymore. He has nothing left to give. He doesn't want MC but says he knows he needs IC but doesn't want me at all involved. I can't tell him to do it. I can't bring it up. And knowing him it will never happen. He feels like a failure and he has talked about dying (not suicide) and has mentioned a life insurance policy he has a couple of occasions.
He is showing all signs of depression. I think he has tried opening up to me in the past but I guess I handled it all wrong--IDK. Now, it seems, I am the problem. My insufficient income due to my "laziness" (I thought of it as flexibility to be around for the kids but whatever). My constant nagging (I always thought my problem was conflict avoidance because I tried so hard to avoid nagging, apparently not).
I'm scared. I love him so much but his "brokenness" really worries me. Before this happened I was already back in school getting an additional certificate which should be completed by the end of December. I thought we were making progress. I thought I was working towards getting us out of this hole we have dug. Apparently he sees no hope, no end, he hates his job but feels so locked in, and even if there is hope he doesn't want us to do it together. Every idea I come up with to try and bring in more income to him seems "flighty and selfish" (for example me taking a night job). Yet he comes up with the same ideas for himself and thinks it is swallowing pride and a heroic act of selflessness. I don't understand why he always thinks that I have the worst of intentions.
Anyway I read DR (most of it, I skipped the parts that are beyond where I am because I didn't want information overload, especially since I am also working, taking online classes, and taking care of my family). In my next post I will explain what I have been trying to do based on my understanding of DBing.
Now that my posts have started posting I decided to copy and paste this here to keep everything in one thread.
I am having a really hard time with this. I am still waiting for my OP to be posted and within the 5 days of waiting I have been up and down so many times. I think I am doing great, then I mess up.
DH is away for the week. I planned on using this time to focus on me and on doing things my way, but little things are making me so angry. He has the habit of stopping me from taking care of things and saying he will do it. I stupidly believe him and then months pass and it never gets done. Is this a control thing? I always believed his intentions were good but he was just flaky about things, now I think it is a control issue. I have been dealing with a broken washing machine for months and whenever I have a plan to take care of it he tells me he already has it under control. I leave it alone for weeks (even months) and when I bring it up again he tells me he is on it. This is part of my conflict avoidance problem. I keep my mouth shut while inside I am ready to rip someone's head off.
Before he left on this trip (which I think he felt a little guilty about taking at first but he needed it) I said directly (which is a 180 for me), "the only thing I ask before you go is that the washing machine get's taken care of". I was pleasantly surprised by his reaction and thought I finally figured out how to talk to him about these things without sounding like a nag or being passive-aggressive. But it didn't get done. Two days before he left I said, "is the washing machine coming this weekend or should I go to the laundromat?' and he said he will take care of it that day and that he was planning on doing laundry the day before he left. Neither things got done (well maybe he did his own laundry, but none of mine or the kids stuff got done).
So he left yesterday and last night I was at the laundromat seething in anger. We can't afford a new machine. I called to get an estimate on repairs and even just the diagnostic visit is more than I can afford on my own (although for a working used machine I wouldn't mind paying that amount). I googled DIY repairs (which I have had moderate success with in the past) but this repair is beyond my comfort level. I have the day off and I want to take care of this TODAY. I woke up this morning so cranky about it.
And then he called. I wasn't expecting it, and because of the ring I thought it was my parents so I answered. I know my voice gave away my frustration. I know he was thinking "thank God I don't have to be in that house this morning" because it wasn't a good morning. And our chaotic mornings is part of what he hates about me (something I have been working on, but today I slid into old habits thinking it was ok because he wasn't here anyway--and because I am so angry).
Of course I had nothing to say to him except stuff about transferring money to fund the kids lunch fund, and I slipped and told him I got in touch with my uncle who knows someone who is selling a used machine. I stepped on his toes there because he claims one of his coworkers has one for us (but that was 3 weeks ago and still no progress in that department or any indication that it is actually going to happen).
So how do I do this? Part of me just wants to go ahead and make all the decisions on my own, but that involves having to use money that I can't afford on my own and I don't like just transferring money without telling him (although he used to do it to me all the time until I opened an account at a different bank). My parents offered to buy us a new one as an early Christmas gift but he made it clear he wants nothing from my parents. They have helped us out too much in the past and that is part of what makes him feel like a failure.
I feel like my hands are tied. Life is so stressful right now, and that is a big catalyst on why he is the way he is at the moment, I believe. But my way of handling things is to be proactive and hopeful, while his is to ignore it or just give up.
I really need a better paying job. As much as I want my marriage to work out, I am starting to feel like life would be so much easier without him. His moods, his spending, his need to offer to do everything, and his inability to actually do things he says he is going to do. I am going to talk to my pastor today. Hopefully she can help me let go of this anger.
Welcome, mustardseed . . . I know how frustrating moderation is - just keep posting and pretty soon you'll be off moderation. It makes all the difference.
I am sorry that you are going through this. It is awful. I read your other post, and wonder what you are thinking right now re: your M. Do you love him? Do you want to fix it? Are you willing to do the work it will require? What kind of DBing have you been doing?
It sounds to me like you are really only taking a surface look at yourself - you are still blaming H for the issues you have. It is NOT easy to take a long, hard look at yourself, to really dig deep and see where you contributed to the demise of your marriage, but it is important to do whether you end up staying in the marriage or not. Have you considered IC?
Hi mustardseed ... Welcome. You have already taken a good first step by finding this site. Read through the threads and soak up all of the advice that the vets give. I have just started this journey myself and have learned so much.
Most of what your H is telling you is script. We have all heard the exact same things. If you give a suggestion to "fix" something, it will be immediately discarded. At this point, all you can do is work on yourself. Give your H space and really try to understand that you cant fix H or your M. He needs to figure things out for himself.
Continue to post and you will be off moderation before you know it.
Thank you for posting. The delay is very frustrating especially since my emotions are shifting back and forth constantly. When I first posted this I was making changes and doing pretty well, but then I had a moment of weakness and I feel like I have fallen off the deep end the last few days.
IC is off the table right now. We have major money problems which is a huge contributor to this stress--and even with insurance I don't have enough in the budget for anything additional right now and he would really resent it if I dip into his income for that, I'm sure. Especially because he has made it clear that he feels he needs IC but isn't ready to go, and I'm sure the money has something to do with that. But I started seeing my pastor and we have set up a weekly appointment for the time being.
I want my marriage to work--I love him so deeply and completely and that has never changed and has never been a point of confusion for me. We just never really learned how to work together as domestic partners and while we were able to skate by for many years, I think it is all catching up to us. And yes, I am very much to blame for this. I think that when family issues would come up (money mostly but other mundane, household issues as well) I would feel the need to have a discussion about it so we could handle it together, but I think he always saw that as me putting the burden on him--asking him to take care of it. And his response was always, "I'll take care of it" which frustrated me because that wasn't what I wanted, but I always went along with it anyway and just dropped the conversation as soon as he said he would take care of it. So one thing I am trying to do is handle things on my own without bringing him into it.
One of my 180s was when the sink was full of dishes but the dishwasher was running. Rather than waiting for it to finish I decided to just start washing them. He told me he would take care of it. The old me would have said, "fine" and went upstairs, annoyed and feeling dismissed. This time I said, "I got it" and went ahead and did it. Then I told him that he could help me dry if he wanted. And he did. I think that was a much better way to handle it then my old way. I am not used to being so direct.
I have my goals, but right now my fear is his emotional state. I think I am confused about DBing because while he is isolating himself from me and almost everyone around him, I am also afraid of abandoning him. I want to be both detached, but available--I am so torn. If he needs distance to get better, whether we are together or not, then that is what I would choose. But of course I prefer him to get better but stay together.
As for looking at my part in this. A few days ago I had a long list of things, but the past few days I have been so angry that I have lost focus. I know I am passive-aggressive. I also realize that constantly discussing my needs added even more baggage to his heavy load. I thought I was being open with communication, but I was being pretty selfish.I also realize that I wasn't a very good listener. He doesn't open up often, and I think I dropped the ball the few times he did, because I was so focused on my needs I wasn't hearing him. When he says he is hurting, my response was always, "but we are ok, right?"
I need to detach my emotions from his responses to me, and just be there for him without searching for validation.
I am willing to do the work. I am just having trouble knowing how to approach it. This is where the data collection comes in. The try, wait, observe. Patience has never been my strong suit so I guess that is where I need to start. But right now I am not going to walk on eggshells around him anymore. I am doing things that feel right without worrying about if it annoys him.
I am so grateful for finding these amazing resources. Thank you everyone.
Hola mustardseed - your H sounds depressed - an IC seems exactly the medicine he needs - I can recommend the books on cognitive behavioral therapy by Rhena Branch, much better than meds, which are must a band aid, imo.
Please tell us more about you - as melissag says above, it is worth looking at yourself also. Are you happy? Do you need your husband (dependence?) Do you have friends?
Luke
Hi Mustardseed
Welcome to the DB forums
We're a friendly bunch and unlike other places we're here to try and help you get your marriage back on track.
My H is very similar to yours in that he's depressed as well. I think his depression partly caused him to throw in the towel on our marriage.
He told me that it was me causing his depression, well guess what? He's still depressed!
It's good that he's getting IC, it'll really help. I was really pleased when I thought my H was getting IC, but he told me he threw the letter away as he says it's no good.
I wouldn't recommend any books to him such as cognitive behaviour therapy. He's not going to listen to anything you suggest to him, it'll be seen as more nagging.
I've been accused of nagging as well, but if they've decided that they want out of the marriage then nothing you can say or do will make any difference.
Concentrate on yourself and as one vet said "be the spouse that only a fool would leave"
I'm in a similar position as well regarding work and also back at college. They don't seem to see the bigger picture do they? Your sitch and mine are quite similar.
Yes, tryingtodo180 is right - don't give or recommend the book to him, but perhaps your reading it may help you understand him better. Luke
Hey mustard seed, sorry about your situation. My separated wife is going through some emotional issues as well (if she's being sincere, it's some kind of PTSD).
I don't know exactly how you feel but I can relate to being with someone who's emotions have nothing to do with reason and feeling the effects of their actions.
Hang in there…I don't know what I'm doing either but the fight is worth it.
Thank you. I am glad to hear others going through similar sitches. It helps to not feel so alone.
As for some of the questions asked. Yes, I do depend on him--too much. I do have friends but we rarely get together. Most of my friends have small children and all of them are married or in a serious relationship so any plans almost always includes the family or couples--which he won't do. Even when we were happy he never was gung ho about couples dates. That was one of the things that frustrated me.
Where we are now, everything is tied to his job. I shad a mom's night out the other night which was a lot of fun, but of course it ended with making plans to do a couples night--he is friends with all of the husbands, but that doesn't matter. He'd hang out with them without me, but the second it becomes a couples or family outing he wants nothing to do with it.
If it was a few weeks before BD I would have brought it up to him. He would have been non-commital, and if he agreed to it he would be snappy and cranky until we got there. Looked like he was having a good time while we were there, and then snappy and cranky again when we left--always the first ones to leave. That is what he does. But then I think, maybe I am contributing to that, because I try so hard to get him excited about it that he does the opposite and bursts my bubble at every turn. If I just blocked out his moods, ignored them, maybe it would have been different. Someone mentioned to me that drinking might have something to do with it to. If we both go, then one of us has to drive, which means only one of us will have a drink. Because he likes to be in charge of when we leave he always wants to drive, which means he won't drink so he wants to get home quickly so he can start. Whenever we did something that we could walk to or get a ride he seemed in much better spirits.
First of all, I am sorry if I am forgetting to respond to some of the questions--or if I am repeating myself. I can't see my posts yet since I am on moderation, so I am trying to remember what I have and have not said so far.
DH is coming home from his trip later today so I need to make sure I am in the right frame of mind. I have been thinking about what I have done to contribute to this. Why I am the problem for him and this is what I think so far.
Why he probably thinks of me as lazy.
1) I don't take initiative. Always seeking approval for decisions I make.
2) When he offers to do something I was going to do, I let him. And I usually leave the room so that I don't get annoyed by how he does it.
3) I spend a lot of time on the computer, reading, knitting, or in the garden when he is home. I'm not very available.
Why he thinks I am needy.
1) I don't get out with my friends very much.
2) I am always seeking validation--for everything.
Why he feels so burdened.
1) Most of our lives (finances, friends, kids schooling, housing) is completely dependent on his job--which he hates.
2) My need to discuss every decision makes him feel like it is all on him.
3) When I come up with a plan for our family that I can carry out without him, maybe he feels like I think he is irrelevant? My parents help us out a lot--financially, and I think that is a big problem for him. But right now I don't see an alternative to this.
I have been acting "as if" for the most part. I had two moments of weakness. One was right after BD. The day after, I told him I agreed and we should separate. A week later I took it back and said, I want to be with him, but he is right that things aren't working and if he doesn't want to work on the marriage then I won't fight him if he really wants to separate. Then I carried on much better, less bitchy, after doing that. Until a few weeks later when I tried to get close to him. He wasn't mean about rejecting me but he made it clear that he didn't want to confuse things. Before he went away I asked if we could talk about us when he got back. Now I know that is a mistake and I will not bring it up. God help me.
180s I am doing to address the issues in my last post:
LAZINESS:
I am just doing. I am not worrying about if I am annoying him by the way I choose to do what I am doing. If he offers I am now declining his offer with assertiveness. I am no longer running upstairs when he comes home. I am keeping busy by doing other things that don't shut me off from everyone else. I decided to make cooking and cleaning hobbies rather than chores which means I am doing it happily without seeking approval or appreciation.
Neediness:
I am accepting invitations to do things without checking with him first. I am telling him what I am doing rather than asking permission. I am going to join some groups (I joined a church and a choir last year before any of this happened and he seemed supportive of it, although the religious aspect makes him uncomfortable). I am not asking his opinion for anything anymore. I am just going to do what I think I should.
Burden:
This is a tough one. I have struggled finding a better job for years. I am back in school now and optimistic that things will change. Once the semester ends I am going to go gang busters on the job search. I am not going to ask him if he thinks my ideas to take care of things are right. I am going to straight up tell him, this is what I am going to do about this. If he objects with an alternative idea I will say, "Ok, but I want it taken care of by (insert date). If not then I will do what I said I was going to do."
THIS LAST ONE IS STILL A BIG ISSUE FOR THE TIME BEING:
3) When I come up with a plan for our family that I can carry out without him, maybe he feels like I think he is irrelevant? My parents help us out a lot--financially, and I think that is a big problem for him. But right now I don't see an alternative to this.
Until he gets control of his spending or I get a better job I feel my hands are tied. I really feel like if he would just let me fully take over the finances I can get us out of this hole. I know we make more than enough for the lifestyle we have, and with some focus and discipline we can figure out exactly how much more we need for the lifestyle we want. The way things have been for most of our marriage has been based on ignoring. Last spring I decided to take over the bills and separated my income from his so I could do a partial budget. All of my money and a small portion of his is budgeted to make sure needs are met. Everything else gets pissed away. I know he is buying some family focused items, but a lot of it is going to his vices and whims. I think if he would just see how much paying attention to where money is going changes things we could really make some progress. At first separating our money was the best thing I ever did, but now I think it was just another nail in our marital coffin. Now I am asking him for money every pay period to make sure the bills are paid, and he is resenting it. He hates paying bills and before I did this we were always months behind. I think for the time being I have to just leave this one alone. The bills still need to be paid, and if this separation happens we will need a second car and two homes. Until I get a better job I am stuck with keeping things as is for now.
He is home. The washing machine was addressed right away. I think I handled it well. I was direct, made no apologies for how I handled it, and said "I know it isn't the way you wanted it handled but it needed to get done." He agreed and the issue was dropped. Then I did his laundry when he ran out to the store. 180s all the way for me since my normal response would have been to ask him if he wanted me to first (my personality flaw). I think when I would ask, he would think I was hinting for him to do it and so my questions felt like nagging. It was a win/win for me, because it got him unpacked quickly so I didn't have to deal with his stuff sitting around for days while I waited for him to do it, and I got to play with my new washing machine some more.
I'm glad he is home. There is still distance. I wanted to hug and kiss him when I saw him but didn't initiate. Neither did he, so I guess things haven't changed. My heart still feels broken, but the anger and frustration is gone--probably because the washing machine issue is finally over. I feel more proactive. I have a certification exam tomorrow so I am studying today, but I made it a point to not hide out all day. I am making soup, watched some movies with the kids, and did some cleaning. He has been in and out, catching up on work. I feel optimistic about my ability to DB right now. Things feel better now that he is back.
Sounds like you're going on the right direction MS
Don't be too hard on yourself though, he's as much to blame as you are and he needs to work on the marriage as well.
Good luck with your exam tomorrow
I've got an online exam on health and safety as part of my course. It is going to be purely luck though as I've not done any revision!
I know how you feel about being rejected from hugging and kissing. My H did this to me before he finally left. It's not nice at all. Stay strong and don't take on more than you can chew
Rome wasn't built in a day you know, so just take things easy and don't try to change too much too quickly as you won't be able to keep it up. Gradual changes are great and he will notice the little things
Thanks TTD180. I messed up again, though. Checks for our joint account came in and he told me he was going to start using his separate account. This sounds like the real issue was when I moved my money to another bank. That must have really hurt him. IDK. Instead of acting "as if" I pushed for talk of the future. Nothing has changed. He doesn't want to talk about it now, but in a few days he says we will. Not holding my breath. I told him I just want to know WHY. I want to know what I did. He said I didn't do anything. The conversation was brief and calm. But I am trying to hold it together with a smile on my face while the kids laugh and play, my stomach is in knots. And he disappeared. Probably went for a walk.
This is too hard. How do you let go? How do you act "as if" when you are falling apart inside. In addition we found out that one of DD's friend's dad's past away this morning of a heart attack. He was around our age, fit, a doctor. That probably made it all worse for him. I know DH thinks he is going to die soon. He keeps talking about it, and this just enhanced it I'm sure. Really, really, really bad timing on my part to bring up talk of the future.
I just wanted to repost this here from earlier this week. I thought I posted it in this thread, but I guess I did it in the other thread I started.
My pastor confirmed a lot of what DR seems to teach. It was amazing talking to her and being able to confide in someone about this. She gave me a lot of insight into what he might be dealing with. I don't feel like going into that here, but it seems it is more than just depression that he is dealing with and that I need to lovingly detach and stop making excuses for him. Unfortunately she didn't seem to be as hopeful for my marriage as I had hoped, but no expectations is the name of the game, right?
She told me that for my sanity and for the sake of keeping this household going, I have to make it clear to him that if he offers to take care of something and it isn't done within a specific time frame that I will handle it my own way. This is something I was on the fence about regarding the WM--which is now finally taken care of. I didn't give him a chance to tell me he will handle it again and I know he will hate the way I handled it, but so what. He had 3 months to do it his way and he didn't.
My 180s right now are focusing on pulling myself together so I am not dependent on him. Because right now he is not dependable. It feels counter productive to saving my marriage because my instincts tell me he needs his ego stroked, but that will just be another cheeseless tunnel at this moment. Right now my marriage is not ready to be repaired because I have a lot of work to do before I can be a better wife, and he has a lot of things he needs to deal with--to which he has admitted--but he isn't ready to do so--which he has also made very clear. Me waiting around for him, walking on eggshells, stroking his ego, making things safe for him will not change anything for the better and may make it worse. It's just tough when you love someone so much and you see them hurting. But one mistake I make is I try to push for R talk, and now I realize he is not in any frame of mind to do that. He is suffering. Me trying to get him to focus on "us" is so selfish right now--it is just adding more to his burden. I get that, finally. I think he still loves me but does not have the mental capacity to care for me, which is what I have been begging him to do the past few years. So now I need to care for me, and detach from him, but I also want to be available for when he needs to talk. Detach but be available: Is it possible to do both? I think I have to reread the chapter on depression.
I think I just had an aha moment. Not sure exactly, but I think I started all of this. I am to blame.
First by separating our finances. My intention was to try and manage our bills better and starting to budget without having to effect him too much, because I didn't know how it would work out and because I was pretty certain he wouldn't be on board which would leave us in a pickle--again. Once I realized how well the budget worked I wanted to try and get him on board but without pushing the issue too much. He was almost there, and then August/September money surprises hit and even though we rode it out better than we ever had before, but it set me way back and because he hasn't seen the way I have things handled he feels things are as bad as always.
Another thing was in early summer I was feeling down about him not wanting to do anything together I asked if he thought we should be one of those couples who raise the kids together and live together, but are no longer married. I had taken back the suggestion within a couple of hours. He didn't respond at all at the time, and we had a nice night together after the conversation was over.
But I think one of two things happened as a result of these conversations.
#1 I planted a seed. Gave him a get out of jail free card (which I have been thinking might be the case since BD).
or
#2 It really hurt him that I was distancing myself. (Just dawned on me this might be a possibility),
Obviously our marriage was challenged before those things, but the way I handle things are so immature. I think I am compromising, but I am really just avoiding tough discussions. I think I am communicating my concerns, but I am really just putting up walls. Man I suck!
Again, I have to remember to stop making every conversation about me or us. I have to listen to him. Really listen. Not explain, judge, or make excuses. Just validate. I hope I get a chance to soon. And when it happens I hope I remember. Because that is something that happens. I know what I am supposed to do until it is time to do it. Then I do what comes natural--stupid cheeseless tunnels.
One thing I have on my side is time. He doesn't want to do anything until after the school year is over. Those 7 months of status quo sometimes feel like a gift. Other times a burden.
There's been a few couples that still live together on here and yet are separated emotionally. If this is the case here, you could tell him that if he wants to live separately then he has to start doing his own washing, cooking, etc.
Your pastor sounds good, but seeing as it is the Christian way to stand for your marriage, I think he needs to be reminded of this. There's a website called rejoice marriage ministries that you can sign up for a daily email. It's full of good advice and Christian daily devotionals. It really sets me up for the day
Remember me saying to you to take one step at a time when trying to change yourself? Well today I had my first IC and she said in order to reach the top of the ladder you need to climb one rung at a time. This was a good way of putting it
Give him distance and let him work out what he really wants. Go out more, when he's in, for a walk around the park. Go out for your dinner if you can afford it so he's got to make his own dinner.
This is just my 2 cents. I don't mind if you don't want to follow this advice. At the end of the day it's your sitch and you know what your gut feeling is
Thank you for your suggestions. My Pastor wasn't discouraging the marriage, I think she was just avoiding giving me false hope at this moment and focusing on giving me coping strategies and perspective.
I like that one rung at a time metaphor. Making decisions without involving him is my first rung.
I have been cooking at home more, in the past I was inconsistent. I think that is a lot of where the money gets blown. He doesn't always eat what I make. Part of why I stopped cooking so many years ago was because I would make something, the kids would complain about it, he would order a pizza. Then they would complain that they had to eat my meal while he got pizza. So I just gave up. But I recently made cooking a hobby and included the kids. My meals are much better tasting. I don't cook for him, but he can eat it if he wants. And if he doesn't he waits for the kids to go to bed before ordering what he wants. But I think you are right that I do need to get out of the house more. I am thinking about going out to the movies by myself one day. I guess when something really catches my fancy.
I really wish I had some single friends. Or friends that want to get out without their SOs.
Part of me is thinking maybe I should just move out. Get a one bedroom apartment, let the kids stay here with him. Then we can switch it up he can stay in the one bedroom and I can stay here. This way we could coparent without having to move the kids around. It would save him child support. It will save me rent (3 bedroom apartments are ridiculous around here, we really have a good deal on our place). IDK. I guess if we have a talk I can suggest this. It is a way for us to be apart (if that is really what his problem is) without it costing an arm and a leg, or freeing him of all responsibilities. If we are divorced, I can't stay here. Our housing is linked to his job. He has no plan for how this is all going to work yet. I would like to think this is a sign that he is not really serious, however, I know this is how he works. He never has a plan until things just happen. When we met we were both pretty "off the cuff" sort of people--me by choice, but I guess him by nature. Part of what I used to love about our lives together--so exciting, but later that is what caused this feeling of instability which led to the stress that has him ready to leave and me clinging to fix it. I started feeling the need for more stability. I think deep down inside I am more type A then I ever wanted to admit to. Maybe that side of me coming out has made him realize he doesn't really like me anymore.
*Sigh* I really have to try to stop figuring him out and just do what I need to do.
BTW I took my test this morning. Taking it on the computer at a testing center is a unique experience. I missed the paper. I like to mark up my tests when I take them and I found it difficult to focus. Not sure if it is because of the format or because of the BS I am dealing with. Anyway, crossing my fingers that I did well.
Woo hoo!! Not on moderation anymore!
Woo hoo!! Not on moderation anymore!
Yay
Good luck with the test, all my fingers and toes are crossed
My test got cancelled today, we've got it tomorrow instead. I won't be revising though, what I don't know now I'll never know!
DON'T you leave the house, let him leave but you need to stay there with the kids. Once he's left, then start looking round for a place for you and the kids. You've got rights with having small children and you can stay in the house as long as you want. Don't think about divorce yet, it's still early days. You are still on the bottom rung of the ladder you know
You can do this, stay strong
MS, that is great that you are really taking a look at yourself and acknowledging where you went wrong in the M. It's super important for the possibility of R and just for you going forward. But - do NOT place all the blame on yourself. The demise of an M is never solely the fault of one spouse. Right now, you can only focus on your shortcomings, but that doesn't mean you need to place your H on a pedestal and beat yourself up about it. It is hard, but try not to live with regret. Once you realize the things you maybe didn't do quite right (and if you are like me, you will cringe every day as you realize more and more), use that as a way to improve yourself. Don't focus on what you coulda woulda shoulda done, just do better going forward.
Second. Do not move out! Do you want to get D? Or do you want to fix this M? If you want to get D, go ahead and move out. But if you want to fix the M, let him drive that bus. If he wants out, let him leave. Do not push this along for him. The big mistake you are making right now is thinking about the future too much. You need to let go of the need for certainty, because you're not going to get any. Think 24 hours in advance, do your best to 180, GAL, and improve yourself, and mention nothing to H about where things are going from here. Yes, you should know your options, in case H decides to move forward with D . . . but do not discuss them with H, and do not act on them. You just do what you need to do for you, and make H make and own his own decisions.
Notice what you said in your post - you are more Type A than you like to admit. Does it serve you well? If not, do something about it. You acknowledged it, but your whole post was Type A.
Something to work on.
I agree with Melissa here
You need to let him make all the decisions what he wants to do as regards to moving out or not. Don't suggest anything to him at all.
I also agree that you are analysing yourself too much. He's as much to blame as you are. Take the blame away from yourself and concentrate on GALing, have a PMA and do your 180s
This is the best way forward
I just reread, what I wrote. LOL boy was that type A. Yes, letting go of the need to drive this bus. It is funny, I always gave up my control easily when things are going ok, but the second I worry about the future I panic and try to take over. Like right now. Today I will make it a point to only think of the moment.
I need to let him drive that bus. And I don't have to get on it. Detatch. Good news is I heard of a possible job opportunity. I will call about it later today. I have a really busy (and out of the house) sort of day ahead of me. After work I have a wake to go to, then choir practice, then meet with my pastor. Hopefully I will get home after everyone is sleeping, and because most of my school work is done for the week I can take a break tonight and just relax before bed.
MS, I think one of the toughest parts about being the LBS is the lack of control. Someone else has made a decision, with no input from you, that completely changes your entire life. That is hard to swallow. Without control, it is easy to feel weak, helpless and hopeless. That's why DBing is good - it gives you control over YOU. It is still hard letting go of your perceived control over your H and/or your M, but you have to try because more than likely, that is part of what got you here to begin with. Control isn't all bad, though - just focus it on yourself.
I have a busy day, too - it always helps to give yourself a break from dwelling on your situation. Hope yours goes well, and good luck with the job possibility!!
Hey Mustardseed, Sorry that you find yourself here.
You are in the greatest place on the net to help save your marriage. Especially that you are so early into your journey.
Lovingly detach and focus on yourself to become the best person you can be and that will bring good things for you and your family.
Melissag, Wow! not even a month in and you get it! Your a fast learner.
Melissag, Wow! not even a month in and you get it! Your a fast learner.
Maritimer - you made my day with that comment!
I definitely have this down intellectually . . . the problem is applying it emotionally. It's a process, that's for sure!
I agree with Melissa here
You need to let him make all the decisions what he wants to do as regards to moving out or not. Don't suggest anything to him at all.
I also agree that you are analysing yourself too much. He's as much to blame as you are. Take the blame away from yourself and concentrate on GALing, have a PMA and do your 180s
This is the best way forward
^^^^^
For the most part I agree with TTD180. It is OK to analyze yourself. You need to do this in order to figure out your wants/goals/180s and to figure out your part in the problem.
But it is completely fruitless to analyze your H. He probably doesn't even understand himself half the time right now. It will drive you nuts if you keep trying to figure him out. Trust me, I went down that road with W and it is fruitless. I still don't know if she is depressed, has attachment disorder, has PTSD, or is going through MLC, is having an A, or is just typical WAW. I don't know if tomorrow she will move out, or next week, or next month, or never. I don't know if our M will be repaired. The one thing I know is that analyzing the things outside my control or knowledge - those things will drive me nuts. So I try to avoid that.
Good luck!
S4tk
By the way, I like the name mustardseed. That's about all the faith we can summon up some days, huh?
It is ok to analyse yourself and think about where you went wrong in the marriage, but imo I don't think you should dwell on this too much or over analyse yourself.
I agree that you shouldn't try to analyse him, you won't get anywhere, lol.
I also like the name mustard seed, it does remind me of my faith and the challenges we face at the moment
Thanks. That is why I picked it. That is all the faith we need and we can move mountains, right?
I think my biggest problem with letting go of control is the money issue. That is the one complaint I always had about him, his lack of financial common sense. I took over the bills, but can't cover it without his contribution (which really is a small portion of his take-home pay). I simply don't make enough. And now he is moving his paycheck out of the joint account and into his own. I already have a separate account that I was using to maintain a budget, to make sure the money was there for the bills and necessities without worrying it would get spent because I have more self control then him. I think that hurt his feelings when I did that. Now that he is moving to a separate account I am really worried about not getting his share of the bill money. I don't think he means to stiff me, he just doesn't see the urgency in paying bills on time and sticking to a budget. He has no problem with waiting until things are about to be shut off to pay them--then will take out a payday loan to get it taken care of.
When I took over I figured out how much everything cost and told him how much I was taking out of his pay to cover it. But then I ran out of checks and he started giving me the money directly. He is trying to stay on top of it, but often gives me it late, or give less than I need. Or forget that he said he would give me the rest later. And if I remind him he gets mad. He doesn't understand that you can't spend the money and still have it to give. He is super generous, and has no problem giving me money for clothes or a pedicure, but if I ask for bill money he gets all resentful. It is strange.
This makes me crazy. This is one bit of control I don't know how to give up, because I was so happy to finally get us on a decent plan and no longer have any late bills. But I figure if I get a better paying job I can float it and just take what he gives without feeling an urgency, or I can start canceling things--like cable. As long as the electric bill is paid, that is all that really matters--but I really want to get my credit back on track so I don't want to default on any more bills.
So today I talked myself off the ledge on that one. It will be ok. Either he will step up to the plate and do what is right, or I can make changes to make it ok. I think this is why I seem so mixed up about what I want. Because I love him and want him and he is so good in so many ways. But this one issue, this big, glaring issue, is so frustrating to me. And I know that without him in the picture I would be making much better financial decisions. I resent that all of my income is going to necessities, and he has so much free spending money that gets pissed away--and he doesn't see it. Anyway, I needed to vent. I think this is the area where I keep slipping because I am worried. But I need to stay positive. This will be taken care of one way or another. Either he will do what is right to keep the peace (which is what he wants to do), or I will find a way to make it work.
I know what you mean about money issues. My H is useless with money. He's now flat broke, not my problem anymore but he seems to think it is! He would rather spend his money on the latest PS3 game than pay it towards paying off his debts!
I think he also resented the fact that I could handle my money better than he could and I still do!
It's hard when you live apart though because you've got all the bills etc. to deal with on your own without any help off H at all. I still manage my mobile phone bill and cable each month, I wouldn't give those up!
Hope you can sort out these money problems. Have a look at how the DB book handles this. It gives examples of how to get what you want out of him without getting his back up by doing something that you would never think of doing.
I suppose you could leave the number of the cable company handy where he can see it and then if he makes a comment then mention that you can't afford cable anymore.
That gives you a bit of a starting point, you may be able to think of a better example
I have DR and it doesn't talk about this. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on DB. Thanks for the suggestion. I talked to my pastor and I am feeling good again. Confident that I will be fine regardless. That is all I need to remember to stop driving the bus.
My H is terrible with money as well.
Maybe him putting his money into another account is just a test of your faith...another learning experience (these learning experiences are annoying when they come but we end up better b/c of them)
You H is not your source, God is... so keep a positive outlook!
So I messed up yet again. When he told me he didn't want to do anything for Thanksgiving and told me to take the kids and spend it with my family I believed him. We usually spend it with his family. I didn't try to convince him otherwise--which is a 180 for me.
When his relative contacted me to see if we were coming I politely declined and but commented that we will be around later that weekend if any additional plans come up later that weekend so we could still get together. I told H, thinking he would be glad, but he seemed a bit uneasy but ok about it. I thought I did the right thing. Then my kids started asking about it and I told them that we will be with my family this year. They got upset and said they missed spending time with H's family and wanted to know why. I told them that H has been tired lately and just wanted to relax and didn't want to do anything so he said we should go to my family. DD was angry with me. I hated being in that position. I was given advice to stop making excuses for him and covering up but I was afraid the kids would ask him about it and he would think I was bad-mouthing him. So I told him what happened.
So today when the kids asked him about it he said that he made plans with a different relative and that was why we weren't going where we usually go. So now I look like a liar to the kids. When I asked him about it he said that he thought the way I handled it was wrong and he didn't know if I was being spiteful. I wasn't. I thought that what I did was listen to his desires and handle it when it came up, rather than having to put off the invitation and wait for him to decide (which makes him feel like I am badgering him). He doesn't want anyone to know anything about what is going on, and he is the king of giving non-committal answers so everyone comes to me and I feel like I am being set up. I know he doesn't want me to go with him anywhere. I don't really want to go anyway, but how do I not without looking like the bad guy? Like I am the one that is avoiding his family (which I am not!). I still consider them my family, too! I don't want my kids to think that I am the reason why they don't see his family as much as mine. And I don't want his family to think that either. I like his family.
I don't know what to do. I am trying to handle things the opposite of how I normally would, and I am still constantly doing the wrong thing. Am I just supposed to deflect every question to him? That is what I used to do and it annoyed him that everyone would start hounding him about things. And his non-committal answers would send everyone back to me anyway to try and figure it out. I hate being in this position.
So now he is mad at me. I look like a liar. I don't know what is happening for Thanksgiving. And I know that I am going to end up looking like the bad guy even though all I am trying to do is keep the peace. Why does he hate me so much?
I am such a wreck today. Part of me is so angry it is making me not like him at all. The other part of me still wants to fight for my marriage but I feel like I am making more and more mistakes the more I try to DB.
Keep on doing what you're doing
You're doing fine, it's your H that's the problem
He will see the negative in everything you do at the mo. No matter what you did, it would still be the wrong thing to do in his eyes.
I know it's hard on your kids because they won't understand what's going on. Try and make it fun for the kids and leave your H to do his own thing. Is there anything going on that you could take your kids to like a parade or carnival or something? Give them something to do that'll be more exciting than going to your H's parents.
If you want to fight for your marriage, you need to detach first. Act as if you're not bothered anymore what he does, even if it involves acting or pretending.
Hope you feel better soon and I've been of some help
Keep posting and others will offer their advice as well. We're here for you in the good times and the bad ones
Pretending it doesn't bother me is easy some days, and so hard others. I am in a good frame of mind today. I noticed that I am cleaning more than ever now--and enjoying it. The kids see me in a happy mood so they are even pitching in S offered to mop the kitchen floor before.
Of course, H went somewhere today and it is a lot easier to be positive when his negative energy isn't stinking up the place. I think I need to learn more about detatching. I think I know what it means when I am discussing it, but it is the application that I am struggling with.
I know what you mean about detaching. I meant to add that you should lovingly detach. I think there's some info about it on the DB forum if you do a search for it. I'll try and find it and post it here
Thanks Io will do a search, too.
I saw this in a thread earlier today:
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.
Hmm. Now if someone would just post a tutorial on HOW to do this . . .
Thank you for posting that list. Yes, a tutorial would certainly be helpful.
These are the ones I need to work on:
*Giving another person the space to be himself
*establish emotional boundaries between me and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.--This is a character flaw with me. I have struggled with this not only in romantic relationships, but also in friendships and family relationships. I tend identify myself by my relationships to other people---and when those relationships aren't going well I end up struggling with my identity.
*Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling
*Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life. --I think I am pretty good at doing this already.
*Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when the come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
*Ability to allow people to be who they really are rather than who you want them to be.
I am going to try and focus on a few of these each week and see where it takes me.
I think I will try to choose one that deals with my interactions with him, one that deals things I should do. and one that deals with changing my mind set.
So
1) giving him space to be who he is. I need to not let who he is right now hurt me. The man I married is not here right now, and this intruder who took his place needs to work out his sh@#.
2) Establish emotional boundaries. Only I can make me happy. That isn't his job. I am going to focus on making me a better person for myself and for my kids. And to make me happy, despite the negative energy. I will shield myself from his energy, and maintain a positive mental attitude. This means I need to prepare myself before any interactions with him to make sure he cannot penetrate my shield.
3) And I will continue to work on my perspective.
I will keep you all posted on my progress. I am going to try to not cry anymore. I ended up crying at work on Friday. Luckily I work with very understanding women. But I have to get a grip.
Establish emotional boundaries. Only I can make me happy. That isn't his job. I am going to focus on making me a better person for myself and for my kids. And to make me happy, despite the negative energy. I will shield myself from his energy, and maintain a positive mental attitude. This means I need to prepare myself before any interactions with him to make sure he cannot penetrate my shield.
This is a tough one. I suppose it does depend somewhat on the situation, though. I agree 100% with acknowledging that your happiness has to come from within. The part about preparing yourself with a shield before interactions with him made me sit up and take notice, because I think one has to be careful with that. I guess I am super sensitive to it because I put up a shield throughout our marriage, and that's the reason I am here right now. I think that you have to try not to allow H to rule your moods, but be careful not to be so guarded that you are defensive or lash out at him.
I will keep you all posted on my progress. I am going to try to not cry anymore. I ended up crying at work on Friday. Luckily I work with very understanding women. But I have to get a grip.
It's OK to cry, mustard! As long as you are not flopped on the floor in the fetal position 14 hours a day, I think you are OK. I get choked up a few times a day at least, and every few days have a longer cry, but I stop myself after a few minutes and move on. Don't dwell or wallow, but do allow yourself to let it out when you need to. It can make you stronger to deal with the rest of your day.
Melissag, it sounds like I can use a little of your personality and you can use a little of mine. We would make the perfect balance. I get really affected by people's moods. If the person opens up and talks about what is going on I am much better at being productively empathetic. But when they are all bottled up and just being miserable it is like my pores suck it up and their mood takes over. It is awful.
I guess the talking helps me stay rational and separate from what they are experiencing. So I think my shield has to be something that provides that same boundary. Not really a hardened heart so to speak, I don't want to shut myself off and be inaccessible. But I want to protect myself from taking on his emotions. I'd rather be clueless, that way I am not tiptoeing around anymore. Kind of like a one way glass, I guess. I can send my vibes to him, but his will just bounce right off of me.
I decided to alleviate my "what are we doing for Thanksgiving" stress I decided to just tell the kids, the next time they ask (because now they are as confused as me) "I'm not sure what the plans are but whatever we end up doing you are going to have a great time!" That way if he makes his plans with the other relative and wants to take the kids with or without me they will have fun, and I will go to my family's. And if that falls through they can come with me. And they will have fun. I won't tell them to ask him anymore(he got mad at DD for asking him today), and I won't try to answer them with uncertain information or make excuses for him. He is sending mixed messages (his usual MO) but for the first time I am not going to cover up for him or let it make me uneasy. The kids pick up on that. If I am ok with not knowing maybe they will be to.
Thanks melissa for finding that list
I did have a look but I couldn't find anything.
You've got the right idea about thanksgiving MS
Well done
follow this through and you'll be just fine
I am feeling much better today. Church was inspiring and helped me figure out what I need to focus on to be able to truly detach. I am sure I still have a long way to go, but so far--today--it has been effective.
I feel like H was deliberately trying to annoy me today. IDK I might be wrong. He did things that would normally annoy me but seemed to try and make it more obvious. I didn't react (I even stopped myself from an eye roll at one point). At first it was getting to me, but then I told myself he is just doing it because right now he is questioning his decision and he wants to set me off so that he can feel good about it again. I might be way off base, but believing that helped me stay positive.
He really was not at all likeable all weekend which made me realize that if this is who he is now, I don't want him anyway. Of course, I don't fully believe that is the real him. He drank a lot this weekend. I don't usually keep tabs but because I didn't have any beer all weekend I was able to get a running count while I was cleaning up. This could be a huge contributor to what is going on with him. Is he self-medicating, or is he an addict? I don't know, and right now it is not my place to figure that out because there is nothing I can do about it anyway.
I will just keep focusing on me becoming a better person and keeping things as normal and pleasant for the kids as possible.
Glad that Church was inspiring
Mine wasn't lol. We haven't got a vicar at the mo, so we keep getting visiting vicars. I switched off during the sermon as it wasn't relevant to me. God spoke to me though through the bible and kept giving me passages to say that I shouldn't judge others. I'll try not to
I didn't think I was that bad!
Anyway, do you think your H might be going through a MLC? Even if he isn't, he will be focusing on the negative anyway. I know it's hard, but try and ignore him when he talks negative. By making it obvious he's trying to wind you up, he's trying to push your buttons and make you lose your temper. It's the typical script for WAS/MLC/etc. Good for you for not reacting to him
That is what he wants you to do.
You're doing ok, you've got the right attitude :)Stay strong
Thanks for the support. It helps. He was nicer today, almost normal. But I focused a lot on me and let him bond with the kids while I took a nice lavender bath. I felt good all day, then a little sad because today I saw a glimmer of who he used to be. It was just a glimmer but enough to make me miss him. Makes me wonder if the neanderthal who was here this weekend was a result of all the alcohol.
At first I thought this was a MLC coupled with depression. Then people started suggestion alcoholism. IDK, he is definitely not going through a--trade you in for a younger model and relive my youth--sort of MLC. More of a--I failed at life and see no hope--sort of situation. Whatever it is, it isn't the man I married. And I admit I have changed, too. In the past couple of years I made some positive changes that i think might frighten him a little, although I never tried to convince him to do the same. I made it clear the things I did was to help me cope with my own stuff in a way that works for me. I wonder if it makes him uncomfortable, though.
It's nice when you see the old H come out, though it is not very frequently for me.
It could be the alcohol that's causing him to behave like that, but maybe he's depressed as well and is turning to alcohol to try and blot it out.
My IC said today that you can't change him, you can only work on improving yourself. I already know this, but it's putting it into practice that is hard, lol.
You are so right about how hard it is to put into practice. I went to the library and got myself some reading material. 5 Love Languages is one of them, the others deal with codependency. I think the drinking is a bigger deal than I wanted to see. I found a letter I wrote to him--I don't even know when--months ago? Years ago? And it has all of my questions that he pretty much answered on BD. I never gave him this letter. It was crumpled up in the bottom of one of my drawers, but it was interesting how I was stating the things I heard him say. How did I forget that he has been telling me these things for a while now? One of the things was about his drinking. He has been telling me he is worried about it. I hear him, then forget on focus on us instead. No wonder he feels like I don't love him. I ignored his needs, thing he was telling me, but because I didn't know how to handle that information I ignored.
So now I am reading. I have school work to do, but I am mostly caught up for the week, so I am focusing on my much needed self help.
Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with someone who is crying out for help, yet rejecting the help I give? Detach is all the advice I seem to be getting, and I agree it is very useful. All week (so far) I have been detached and feeling good. Today I got a bit cranky so I left the house so that he wouldn't have to see it. But what else can I do? He won't accept suggestions from me. But he is so alone and I think he is scared, and he definitely needs help. I don't want to betray him by going to other loved ones. We agreed to not tell anyone about what is going on and even DR talks about how important it is to not discuss this with others. So what do I do?
I'm afraid to say this but there is nothing you can do
Whatever you say to him will just make him back away from you anymore. All you can do is be there for him when he wants to talk. I'm sure that if he does want to talk then he'll be able to find someone to talk to. It's very hard living with someone who doesn't want to be there. My H was like this before he moved out and there was nothing I could do or say that will make him do something about it. I knew he was depressed, but he said that he was going to try and work things out for himself without the aid of anti depressants or IC.
Lovingly detaching is the best way forward
The more you pursue, the more he'll back off. Hope this helps
Thank you TTD180. I have been working hard at detaching and I think this week I have been doing a pretty good job. Things have been quite peaceful around here and I think my PMA and GAL have helped a great deal.
H bought me a coffee this morning. He usually does that when we are out of coffee, milk, or sugar, but I didn't expect him to do it anymore since he has made it clear he doesn't love me anymore. I noticed it on the counter when I was about to get into a negative place because his clothes were all over the living room. It was like a sign from heaven. As a result I happily put his clothes away (my usual MO would have been to leave it and snarl every time I walked by the mess) and I texted him a thank you. He ignored my text which normally would have pissed me off and kept me texting until I heard back, but I just let it go. Later he texted me about what time he will be home. I didn't respond. He wasn't asking me anything so there was no reason to respond. It felt weird not to, but I think it was the right choice. I think I even caught him checking me out this morning, but that might just be wishful thinking.
I've been hitting a lot of road blocks in my certification process because all of the rules are changing so I have to retake a test I took 9 years ago. UGH, but I was able to schedule it for next week so hopefully I will pass and be done with it. I need to reapply for an expired certification, and apply for my two new certifications before the end of the year (which feels like a ticking time bomb right now) or else the requirements change yet again. I also have to make sure that the expired certificate is taken care of before they review one of the new ones or else I will be denied. At $100 a pop I can't afford to have any of these certifications denied and then have to reapply. It is all so expensive. Between the tests and the applications I will have spent $540 on all of this BS in just these two months. Not even counting the graduate work and books. This better pay off in a better paying job ASAP!
The stress of this normally would have paralyzed me. I would have whined to him, he would have gotten annoyed, I would have shut down, and nothing would have gotten done. Instead I am buckling down and just doing it all on my own, leaving the parts that are out of my hands to God, and taking care of things one step at a time.
He has no idea any of this is going on. I'm not used to not venting, but I think it is a good thing because I think in the past part of me liked to complain so someone else would take over. Bad co-dependent behaviors--giving away all my control. Instead I am just springing to action and not letting worry and anxiety take over. I am sending anything that I can't deal with at this very moment to God, while tending to everything that I have control over in this moment. It feels good and very grown up.
MS, sounds like you are doing great! In addition to being good for him to not listen to you complain, it is good for you to just do what you need to do and get it done! Then you can be proud of yourself.
Really good job on the texting thank you (was he not in the house anymore?) and then not pursuing it when he didn't respond.
You might get differing opinions on this, but I actually would have responded to the text from H about when he is coming home. If he is going to be courteous and let you know that information, I feel like you should respond. You want to give him his space, but you don't want to come across as cold. A simple, "OK" or "see you then" would suffice. You don't want him to think you are ignoring him. JMO.
He was already at work when I noticed the coffee. That is why I texted. I am kind of following his lead with the texting. If I had texted something similar I don't think he would have responded. He hasn't been responding to many of my texts lately, even the ones leading up to BD. But it is good to know that if I do respond to such texts in the future it will probably be ok.
Today's prayer (meditation) taken from THE LANGUAGE OF LETTING GO: DAILY MEDITATIONS ON CODEPENDENCY by Melondy Beattie:
Today was all about gratitude and acceptance.
Today, God, help me let go of my resistance. Help me know the pain of my circumstance will stop hurting so much if I accept it. I will practice the basics of gratitude and acceptance in my life and for all my present circumstances.
Have a great day everyone!
That's a great prayer there MS.
Thanks for sharing. You have a great day as well!
He was already at work when I noticed the coffee. That is why I texted. I am kind of following his lead with the texting. If I had texted something similar I don't think he would have responded. He hasn't been responding to many of my texts lately, even the ones leading up to BD. But it is good to know that if I do respond to such texts in the future it will probably be ok.
Today's prayer (meditation) taken from THE LANGUAGE OF LETTING GO: DAILY MEDITATIONS ON CODEPENDENCY by Melondy Beattie:
Today was all about gratitude and acceptance.
Today, God, help me let go of my resistance. Help me know the pain of my circumstance will stop hurting so much if I accept it. I will practice the basics of gratitude and acceptance in my life and for all my present circumstances.
Have a great day everyone!
That book got me through the first year after BD and I just wrote a post on this topic in piecing.
Hang in there, you can do this.
I agree with melissa, if he sends a text when he's coming home then politely respond to it
Let him do all the initiating though, don't you initiate anything.
Thanks for the prayer
It was just what I needed today
LAbug, it really has been a great resource to set me on the right path each day.
TTD180 and Melissa I will do that from now on. I think part of my problem is that when I text him I expect a response back, and he never does, so I tried to give him a taste of his own medicine. This is what being ignored feels like buster. LOL but it was a small thing really. I doubt he even noticed.
I have been reading THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES. It has a lot of good information but so far I haven't seen anything that helps you assess your spouse's language when they don't open up at all. My H never even really complained, he just withdrew and I never could figure out what was going on. If I asked he would say, "nothing".
I think he might be ACTS OF SERVICE though, because that is what he does for me. But he is just naturally that kind of person, whether he loves someone or not. He likes to help out. He is good at jumping in where he sees need. I am not so good at doing that. I need words and instructions, and I always feel I am in the way. But that is where my new assertiveness is coming in. If I approach something like a timid mouse I will be a pest, but if I take on the work horse persona I might actually be of assistance. I am going to practice this. Once school ends I am going to do some volunteer work in the soup kitchen and other things and practice just confidently going in and getting my hands dirty. My mother is also very good at this. I need to pretend I am her and think, "What would she do in this situation" and maybe I can become a valuable service provider that will make my H feel loved (when he is ready to receive love from me). The good thing about this love language is that it can be done silently behind the scenes. It is subtle and not so blatant an act of love like words or gift giving which could send a WAS running because "too little, too late".
TTD180 and Melissa I will do that from now on. I think part of my problem is that when I text him I expect a response back, and he never does, so I tried to give him a taste of his own medicine. This is what being ignored feels like buster. LOL but it was a small thing really. I doubt he even noticed.
MS, be careful with this. I know it's hard . . . I have found myself thinking this way, too. It's you feeling hurt and masking it with anger, and trying to take control with revenge. Right? But it won't teach him any kind of lesson and it just makes you look bitchy, IMO. Also, it lets him know that his behavior affects you. I remind myself that I am calm, strong and steady. So far almost everything H does
does still affect me, but while I work on that, I at least pretend that it doesn't.
Did it make you feel any better, really, to show him what it feels like? I'm guessing not. Focus on you. If you are DBing to begin with, that means that you want to handle your situation in a way that you can feel proud of, right? Don't lose sight of that.
Someone on this board told me a while ago that I can't make my H come back, but I can make him NOT come back. So keep that in mind when you are considering what path you will take with each interaction.
It didn't really make me feel better or worse--but maybe a little stronger that I could let contact from him go without responding.
If I texted a "thanks for letting me know" I am pretty sure it would have annoyed him more than me just letting it go. He always gets aggravated when I thank him. I am pretty sure my "Thanks for the coffee" pissed him off because he doesn't want me to think it was an act of love but just him doing what any considerate human being would do for another living being--and not about love at all. Even though it feels loving to me. He doesn't take "Thanks" very well. I like words, he seems to despise them.
Now that I think more about it that might be one of our biggest roadblocks in our marriage. I like to talk things out. I show my love by telling, saying, speaking writing, and I feel like he doesn't trust words. They are empty to him. It is a huge difference between us. Yet he used to write me sweet things all the time, a little note on the mirror, a one word inside joke that made me know he was thinking of me. He seemed to know my language and respond in kind. Yet I guess I always ignored his. Now I see why he thinks I am selfish. I always wait to be told what to do rather than trying to figure things out on my own. If he didn't tell me he would like me to do something, then I never thought to do it.
Even today. He is sick (same thing I had the weekend of BD). I know what it feels like, it is awful. His words indicated he wanted to be left alone, so I took the kids to visit my folks. This way he has the house to himself, I can get my work done, and the kids will have fun. Before I left I asked him if he wanted me to buy *list of things that made me feel better* and his answer was no, so I left without picking him up anything. He would never have asked, he would just have done it. That is a big difference between us, and something that made him feel unloved. The more I think about it the more I am understanding some of our conversations that left me confused and defensive because I thought he wanted me to be a mind-reader. And I take what is said as the truth. So if he says, "nothing" then I get or do nothing--it is what he said he wanted and I want to honor his requests. Now I think I realize the truth in his nothing might actually be "anything as long as it is from the heart".
So no more asking on my part. Just do what I think would be helpful for me (without being over-bearing). Pick up some ginger ale and leave it in the fridge for him. Get the things he wants before he asks or goes out to get it himself. I need to pay better attention to what he does and less to what he says.
All of a sudden all of those conversations we had in the past that seemed to be talking in circles and getting us nowhere is making sense. Like I just tore down the tower of babel. He doesn't speak directly and it drives me crazy, but now I think I understand what he was trying to tell me all of these years. Why didn't I find THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES a few years ago. I could have avoided this whole nightmare. Although, this situation is making me look at more than just my relationship patterns so this is a good thing for me. I just hope we end up better and together in the end of it. I know I will end up better either way.
MS, you're doing well but I need to pick up on a couple of points
First of all well done for picking up another book and the five love languages is a good read
Have you been to the love languages website? They have quizzes on there that will determine which of the 5 LL your H is.
When you go out, don't ask him what he wants. Leave it to him, if he wants anything he will ask you
You need to stop being co-dependent and let him do his own thing from now on. There's a book that others have recommended on here called co-dependent no more. I've got it but not read it yet, I've got too many other self help books to read first lol.
The other thing you need to do is stop thinking about him and buying him things that you know he likes. If he's going through this tunnel then he won't appreciate them as much as he used to. He will think you're interfering and will probably not thank you for them. Just let him be and give him the space that he craves. Don't forget you need him to be the pursuer and when you start to pursue then he'll back off.
I hope I've helped
I know you still love him and still care for him, but you need to leave him alone at the mo or lovingly detach
It's hard to do I know, especially in the early days. Have you read Sandi's rules at the top of the newcomers thread? If not I suggest that you read them, they're very helpful
I did read Sandi's rules and I have been following as best I can. But the not doing for him and the 180 are in direct conflict for me. It was not a 180 when I asked him if he wanted anything. I should have either just picked up some stuff that he may or may not want (which would have been the 180), or just left without any comment.
The thing is we only have one car so if I am gone for the night he will have no way of getting anywhere (especially since he is sick and won't be able to walk the mile or so it would take to get to any stores). I also didn't tell him when we were coming home because I am playing it by ear. But I told him I had the kids pack clothes just in case we stay over night.
But doing things for him without asking first would be a 180 for me. Asking first or not doing them at all is more of the same that got us into this situation--I would do for me and the kids because he would never give me a straight answer about what he wanted. So which should be followed, the hands-off or the 180 in this situation?
I picked up the CO-DEPENDENT NO MORE workbook the same day I got FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES. I am definitely not one of the "do things for others" sort of co-dependents, I am more of the "tell me what to do and let me hand over my control over to you" types.
The thing is MS, as hard as it is for you, he doesn't want you to do anything for him at the mo. He's choosing to live a life without you in it, so you are showing him what life is like without you doing things for him anymore.
For example, when my H was at home I used to help him look for jobs, tell him if I'd found one, help him with his application form, etc. Now he's on his own I don't do any of that for him anymore and nor would he want me to. If I do try to interfere in his life, he doesn't like it. So I just leave him to get on with it, he's made his bed and now he's got to lie on it
If you carry on doing things for him, how is he going to realise how much you do do for him if you keep doing things for him. Does that make sense?
Does he have friends or family nearby to where you live? I'm sure there must be someone nearby who will be able to help out if he asks for help.
When my H first left, I tried to win him back by showing him I still cared for him. I bought him things that he needed, found him jobs, gave him money, etc. None of this brought him back to me. Like you said these acts of service needs to be more subtle than buying him ginger beer and sticking it in the fridge for him to find. It was very thoughtful of you, but do you honestly, hand on heart, think that he'll appreciate it?
All you can do for him is pray. Let go and let God. God will guide you in this if you let him. Tell God that you're weary of the fight and God will step in and take over. If you have enough faith, wondrous things will start to happen
I did this on Friday, I told God I was tired of all this fighting with my H and asked him to take over. Me and my H have not been getting on of late, but after I had prayed my H rang and he was pleasant towards me
If you read my thread then you'll know what's been happening in my life. My thread is called "in what universe".
Have a good time at your mum's and hope you go home feeling refreshed and ready to face the world
I see what you are saying, but I think I need to think on this a bit more. I am torn between being a wife anyone would be a fool to leave, and going back to my old neglectful patterns. Right now things are peaceful. There hasn't been any R talk, but he has been less brooding. I think part of the reason is because I started doing again. Not necessarily for him, but just in general. I got back into a laundry schedule which kind of set everything else back into place. My housekeeping and cooking has ebbed and flowed throughout our marriage. He always picked up the slack when I shut off. I know he knows what it feels like to not have me do for him because he has dealt with that for a good portion of our marriage. And in the past when I did pick up the slack I ended up being a bit crazy and demanding when I felt my efforts were being sabotaged. Not at all a happy homemaker.
The past year was not a good one as far as my home-making is concerned. Over the summer I did nothing because between work and school and no washing machine and some small but expensive emergencies I was completely overwhelmed and shut off completely. And this summer was following a year where I didn't have a steady gig except for a part time job that I hated. I worked every day at a variety of places, and then went to my PT job afterwards and really neglected things at home.
I think that my crazy, stressful way of dealing with things this past year is what made him think our marriage was failing. We were both overworked, over stressed, still not bringing in enough money, and nothing was getting done at home. He ended up picking up the slack, but I am sure he resented it because in his mind I was finally living the stressful life he had been dealing with for many years (only he was making a lot more money doing it than me), and I couldn't handle it, but still didn't appreciate him for handling it for so long. In my defense I think I did appreciate it, I just didn't show him that appreciation in a way that made sense to him.
So me doing things for him now--not blatant things like "I bought this for you", "I ironed this for you", but more subtle things. And definitely NOT talking about it at all. No more asking what he wants. He might notice, he might not. He won't ever say anything about it either way as long as I don't bring it up. But maybe he will start to feel a little valued. I figure, while he is home, I should make it a nice place to be so he thinks twice about leaving. Right now I don't know if he is still on the "I'm outta here" plane. He actually texted me last night to see how the kids were. This is a first. Ever since BD he would just text or call the kids directly on their own phones.
Makes me wonder if he really wanted to be alone this weekend or not. But me running off with the kids when he is sick is also more of the same. I think it is what he wants, because of what he says, and I go along with it because I know it would be more pleasant for the kids and me to get out of the house when he isn't feeling well. But then he reaches out to me telling me how awful he is feeling in a text after avoiding texting me for so many weeks. Does that mean he wishes he wasn't alone? IDK.
Yes it probably does mean he doesn't want to be on his own, but you need to make him appreciate you more. It was a good idea to take yourself off to your mum's, that way he'll appreciate you doing things for him more.
I agree with what you're saying, do things subtly and not in his face is a good idea
You are working on you for you and only you.
You're doing great, keep up the good work
Remember take one day and one thing at a time. Don't overdo it, this is a marathon not a sprint
MS, when H was still living here, I decided I would be the wife and person that *I* wanted to be. For a long time, I felt that I was not who I wanted to be at all, and that made me pretty unhappy. I was so stuck in the M and didn't know what the F I was doing. Anyway, I did everything *I* wanted to do, while still following the 37 rules. So in the situation of him being sick, I might have said, "I'm going to the store, let me know if there's anything you need." Don't forget that 180s aren't doing everything exactly opposite. It's about figuring out the things that didn't work in your M, and doing them differently - it doesn't mean changing your personality or being fake.
There is a very fine line between being kind and overdoing it. And a very fine line between giving him space and being cold. It's something I struggle with every day . . . you really just have to do the best you can, notice when maybe you went too far one way or the other, and adjust accordingly.
You're doing awesome - and yes, count H's texting as a baby step!
That is good advice Melissa. I will definitely keep an eye out for when something I am doing doesn't feel genuine.
Right now I am actually enjoying what I am doing and it doesn't feel fake at all. The act of not questioning or seeking approval for my every move released me of the burden I used to feel when I used to try to get things done. I am doing what feels right to me, and getting things done my way without worrying about what he thinks about it. And I am nagging less (not just him, but also the kids) because I am focusing on doing things and interacting only when I feel joyful, and when I am feeling annoyed or negative in anyway I retreat to do something enjoyable (like going for a walk or taking a bath) to snap me out of it.
I agree
You're doing great
keep it up
Right now I am actually enjoying what I am doing and it doesn't feel fake at all.
Isn't that funny (and annoying), how much *easier* some of these 180s are? I noticed the same thing . . . I was freed of the burden of trying to find something to criticize H for, of looking for the bad in everything. I didn't realize how exhausting it was. Too bad I didn't figure that out BEFORE BD.
Too bad I didn't figure that out BEFORE BD.
Isn't that the truth!
I agree with that as well, I've learnt so much since BD. Books I've read tell me how to look after my marriage and I think I wish I'd known that sooner!
So as far as my detaching:
Giving him space: I think I have been pretty good about this, this week. With the exception of asking him if he needed anything before leaving him home sick for the weekend. I feel like we barely spoke all week, but when we did it was positive and mostly initiated by him.
Establishing emotional boundaries: I still struggle with this. But I think I have done ok. The biggest issue is when I know he is cranky and the kids are doing things that might annoy him. I still feel responsible for curbing their behavior to keep him from hollering at them. Somehow I have to step away and let him deal with the kids his way without interfering. I am not responsible for his moods, and neither are the kids.
Perspective: I still feel like I have a good handle on this. I am good at removing myself when I start to go to a dark place and letting myself have a moment to fall apart, then snap right back into my PMA.
I will continue to work on those but add:
*Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling
Now how the heck do we do this one? I feel very much at one extreme or the other. Hmm. Off to my reading material to see if I can find some insight into this.
I will continue to work on those but add:
*Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling
Now how the heck do we do this one? I feel very much at one extreme or the other. Hmm. Off to my reading material to see if I can find some insight into this.
I think this may be referring to validating things he says if he does want to talk and being there for him when he does need you. Even though you're not initiating, when he is initiating your response is always loving, caring and concern. Treat him as you would a neighbour. Hope that helps
The other detaching things are right on the nose
That makes sense. Hopefully I have a chance to try it out this week. We shall see if he initiates any sort of conversation beyond what is necessary for living in the same house and caring for the same kids and dog.
MS, look into black/white thinking.
I've had to get a handle on this.
There is middle ground.
Well, being back home certainly helped me to detach again. But I feel like we are back to old habits in a way. I don't know if that is good or bad. It is certainly detached. He is sick, I am keeping my distance--I never really liked being around sick people and don't even really like myself when I'm sick. I simply am lacking the caretaker gene in the sense, I guess. I could never be a nurse LOL. Anyway, he wants nothing from me anyway, so one thing that is different than the past is that I don't feel guilty about being insensitive to his illness.
He annoyed me this evening because I started making dinner for the kids, and he went ahead and heated up some of his left overs for them. Perhaps he didn't realize I had already started cooking, but still. Give me a break! They ate his, not mine. There was a moment of anger that flashed through me, then I simply ate my own dinner and put away the leftovers.
I have no desire to ask him if he needs anything--he can fend for himself for all I care. He told me he thought he was going to die on Saturday night, and inside I wanted to say, "yeah, imagine feeling that way and then have your H tell you he doesn't love you and doesn't want to be married anymore". Because I had the same thing he has the weekend he dropped the bomb. Kick me when I am down you @*#$&*#! But I rose above. Said, "Yeah, it feels awful". And went about my business. I am feeling flashes of anger today. Part of it might be because I started worrying about the future again. When I am only dwelling on my broken heart I feel like I can handle my emotions and do what I need to do. But when I start worrying about where I am going to live, where the kids will go to school, who the dog will live with. How I am going to pay the bills. I start to feel so very angry! Then I take a deep breath. Give it up to God, and focus on just getting through the day, the hour, the minute. God won't let me down.
Advent starts next week. It is a hopeful season, but one where we learn about patience. I will try to learn the lessons of the season and put them into practice as best I can.
labug, I started googling black/white thinking but I only saw things about narcisism and border line personality disorder. None of those discriptors seemed to apply. Is there another resource you know of? Thanks.
Apparently Thanksgiving will be with his family, but just a small group. Two families (including us). No extended family. Maybe his dad, IDK. It is what he has wanted for years. I am included in these plans (although I don't think he ever would have told me if I didn't ask). When I did ask he was snappy as if I should have known the plan all along?????. Last I heard he had still not heard back, and now all of a sudden I was supposed to know that this was already settled. Also, last he said he didn't want me there, but now I am included. I never know what is going on. He tells me nothing. Me not initiating conversations means there are no conversations with the exception of him telling me what his family is getting the kids for Christmas so their are no duplicates.
I am trying really hard not to initiate conversations but I feel like I should at least no what the plans are. I told my family we were coming--then told them I'm not sure. Luckily my family does not do formal Thanksgivings, too many people, so when and if we come or not is not a big deal. Is it ok to initiate these sorts of conversations (even though it makes him pissy)? I am just so tired of not knowing anything that is going on. The kids still don't know, they kept asking me, and I kept saying "whatever we do you will have a great time." My blanket statement. I think I am trying to convince myself of that as well.
Well, I am trying really hard to be grateful this Thanksgiving. Even when your world is falling apart I guess there are still things to be grateful for. Opportunities. Time. Health. DB. My kids. My pooch. Five day weekend. Hope.
I think you could initiate these conversations, but tread carefully
Wait until he's in a good mood then ask him what he's doing for thanksgiving (as an example). You could always say my kids want to know what you're doing or maybe get the kids to ask him. Remember we can initiate conversations when it's to do with finance or children.
Hope you have a great time whatever you do
Hi all. It has been a while. My sitch has not changed but my attitude has and I am feeling pretty good lately.
Thanksgiving was OK. I was sad, and it was a much smaller group than usual so it was hard to stay distracted so instead I just through myself into helping with the cooking and cleaning so that the distance between me and H wouldn't be obvious to everyone.
For the following few days I was just really sad. We were barely speaking. I felt like I was walking in a fog just trying to survive and it was torture. Then something changed. First, I started taking St. John's Wort which might have helped a bit. And then I read in THE LANGUAGE OF LETTING GO by Melody Beattie, Novermber 30--DETACHMENT. And I had a AHA moment.
The story she told was about a gerbil that one of her kids brought home. The gerbil had escaped from its cage they were frantic trying to catch the thing. Finally after months of chasing the gerbil she said, "If that animal wants to live in the nooks and crannies of the house, I am going to let it. I'm done worrying about it." The next time she saw the gerbil she didn't try to chase it. It stopped and came closer, and so she lunged at it and of course it ran away. The time after that she did the same thing, but didn't lunge at it. When it was close enough she carefully picked it up and put it in its cage.
So I decided that is what detachment is. Of course I got a little hung up on semantics after that. Needing to define the gerbil/human relationship. When the gerbil is rogue in your house, and you detach, is it still your pet? I asked my cousin what she thought. We decided that in your heart it is still your pet, because of the love you have towards it, but you are no longer responsible for its care.
So, I stopped chasing the gerbil in my house. And once I did I felt comfortable asking for friendship. I told him that I know that things haven't changed and I won't misread his niceness towards me as reconciliation, but I really want to be more friendly to one another. We ended up ML that night, but I know it didn't change anything and I assured him I wouldn't mistake it as reconciliation. But the tension has dissipated and things feel ok.
But then my S started asking to go to church with me. Religion is a new thing in my life and for the past year it was just my thing. I think it makes H uncomfortable because 1) I was the one who was pretty anti-church when we first got together. and 2) He grew up RC and I am Lutheran. He doesn't realize how similar they really are. I tried telling me my church is just a liberal version of the Catholic church with more singing and fewer hand gestures. But it still makes him uncomfortable. Then S told me he wanted to be baptized. So I asked my pastor about it and told him how it would work, but I did this before talking to H about it--my mistake. S ended up talking about it in front of H, and now I am afraid he thinks I was putting him up to it.
It makes me wonder if part of the problems he has with me is the change in my attitude toward religion. Anyway, I can't worry about that. If it is a reason it is probably one of many so changing this aspect of my life which has given me great comfort doesn't make sense. I feel like my faith is being tested. But this most recent turn of events made me realize even more so that this entire situation is out of my hands. And rather than making myself crazy about that, I stopped chasing the gerbil. And I have been content ever since.
I love that analogy about the gerbil
He may have a problem with your religion, but that's his problem not yours! You need God in your life at the moment. I've found that since my H left I have become more involved in the Church and found a new relationship with God. Even my son has become more into the Church as well, which can only be a good thing
H has stopped going to Church now, he's only been twice this year. He's lost his faith and the first step towards R for me is for him to turn back to God and the Church
Keep doing what you're doing, you're doing great
Don't worry what your H thinks at the mo, he's in a fog and can't think straight. Everything about his thinking will be negative at the mo, you can't fix that you can only fix yourself
You are so right. I am keeping in mind that I can't believe anything he says right now. And since I can't there is no point in asking him what is going through his mind. I don't know how I would manage this at all without my faith. Being able to give up the burden to a higher power has made all the difference. I think he is struggling with his faith. He grew up very different from me in that sense. We went to church when we felt like it. The type of church didn't really matter. There was no real pressure. I never felt like it was an obligation. He grew up RC and the traditions of the church were very important to his family. He went through confirmation then walked away. I think when it comes to church he figures we have already missed the infant baptism and having a big kid get baptized feels odd to him. Also the first communion happens much younger in the RC church and they don't recognize the Lutheran sacrament of communion (although I don't quite understand why--besides public confession there isn't much difference). But at least the baptism is ecumenical. My son wants to be RC because his friends are. I have no problem with that but I don't want to change churches--the Lutheran Service resonates with me more than the Catholic Mass does (and I like the singing), so for now he will come to my church. At least it will give him a foundation--they are similar enough to make for an easy transition--and when he is old enough he can choose to redo his communion in an RC church.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what denomination we are, we are all still worshipping the same God
You should go to the Church that you feel comfortable in, not one that you are forced to go to. I've known people who have been put off ever going to Church again because of this. Hope you get it sorted for your son
Thanks TTD180. Today he overheard S talking about church and asking questions about advent. I think that H knows that all of this is coming from S and not me. I have never initiated a conversation about it. And even when S was little and I was opposed to organized religion S was fascinated by religion--it made me uncomfortable but I thought it was important to be open-minded and give him as much information as I was capable of. I brought him a picture bible and took him to a few different churches (mostly RC and Episcopal) in the area until he seemed to lose interest. It is just something innate in him.
I wonder if H remembers that from those many years ago. I think also the fact that D is not at all interested and never talks about it shows that I have not been the one initiating or planting seeds in the kids' heads.
But as you say, I can't worry about what he thinks. I know the truth, and he will believe what he needs to believe. And if he decides he wants S to be RC then he can start bringing him to church. I wouldn't mind going to a Saturday service at an RC church and my Sunday services in my church. But until H or S tell me that is important to them I will not offer the suggestion.
Hi Mustard, it's great to see you back! I'm sorry that your sitch with H hasn't changed, but glad to hear that you are feeling better. I wanted to thank you for your post because it prompted me to stop by the bookstore today and pick up a copy of
The Language of Letting Go. So far, I LOVE it!! So thank you.
I'm glad it is helping you. It really is my little shot of wisdom every day. I just stumbled upon her website and looked around. I like how she uses these stories and analogies to really help me understand what detaching with love means.
Things have been so peaceful around here that most of the time I forget that we are in this situation. Every once in a while something pops up that makes me want to slip into old behaviors, and that is when I have to remind myself that I am trying to fix my marriage and need to approach things as a teammate rather than an adversary. I have been pretty good at catching myself in those moments.
He hasn't said a word about the future. Of course we also have said very little about the present besides what is necessary to keep the household running. But we have been really getting along like good neighbors, and dare I say friends. I think that ML last week really helped alleviate the tension. I have no idea where we are headed, but I am happy to say that I am not hung up on knowing that information right now. It is very freeing.
Hi MS
You sound good at the mo, keep it up
It is freeing when we stop stressing about it and just go with the flow
Thanks TTD180. I am doing well most of the time these days. As long as I don't think too much--that is. Today I had a poor me moment because I was trying to figure out why he doesn't want to be married--once again. And the new idea I came up with was very self-deprecating. Now I have 3 possibilities as to why he wants out. The first is my favorite because I see hope in it--that I hurt him and he is angry with me. The second is out of my control because it has nothing to do with me which makes detaching easier--that he is suffering from some internal turmoil and has no room right now to care for me while he is trying to heal himself. And the third awful one--that he really doesn't like me and physical attraction is no longer enough to make it worth it. That is the most hurtful and the one I am better off ignoring because believing that might lead me to do something stupid--like finding someone else to like me in the way the he doesn't.
Luckily I read Melissa G's thread and the wisdom there helped me focus on what really matters. I like me. I don't need anyone else to validate that I am likeable. Now I need to stop trying to read his mind.
Yes you do need to stop reading his mind, you'll only get lost in there, lol
Mustard, the problem with mind reading is that there are about 1 million other possible reasons that you will never think of. The reason for your H's behavior is really irrelevant, since your course of action should be the same regardless. (OK, maybe if it's because he's gay, or a cannibal, or something, then it might change, but we're operating under the assumption that nothing really crazy is behind it.)
I like me. I don't need anyone else to validate that I am likeable.
Yes! And don't you forget it!!
Mustard - I know that it is hard not to mind read. We all want to have a reason to point to why our lives have imploded. But, as Melissa pointed out, it really is irrelevant. Your H may not even know why he is doing what he doing. I think that it is a huge step for you to realize that you don't need anyone else to validate that you are likeable.
You are so right. It is irrelevant and it is making me vulnerable during this time when things are going well. I think that his kindness, happiness, and friendliness is making me want more. But like I said in a previous post, pushing for more is like chasing the gerbil. And now that we are in a peaceful place, I don't want to send him running again.
Last night at DS concert he came later and I saw him with DD and her friends up on the balcony. He cannot sit still for these things and prefers to be able to stand and move around freely in the balcony rather than sitting in the main part of the theater. Any way I was pretty sure he was looking for me, or at me. I guess I was kind of doing the same. All I could think was how attracted to him I am and how I want to hold him and kiss him. But wanting that sent me into a dark place today and I lost my PMA for a split second in front of him. Luckily I caught myself, left the house to pick up something for dinner, and came back positive again. I laughed off my crankiness blaming it on school work, which is stressing me out, but only a small reason for my bad attitude today.
He went out tonight and I hate that I was not invited but I have too much to do anyway, and we have no one to watch the kids so I guess even if I was invited I would have to decline. But it would be nice to be included. I hate having to create a social life separate from him. But I guess it is important to DBing. People from work are going out on Monday and I don't want to go. I can't afford it and I think the whole logistics of getting there and getting home is too complicated and barely worth it for a Monday night, but part of me thinks I should go just for the sake of having something to do. Most of my GAL has been going to the library and going to church, with only one real social outing. It probably is a good idea, but it just seems like such a hassle.
Try and get out on Monday. Show your H that you're just carrying on with or without him. If you can't afford the meal, then just go for a drink. Also is there anyone who you could ask to give you a lift?
I ended up not going out on Monday. Couldn't justify the cost, and too much to do. On Tuesday I realized that not many people from my building went, so I think I wouldn't have had fun anyway.
Last night I feel like the game changed a bit. For the first time I had to deal with setting boundaries, and those boundaries went against what my body wanted. I am afraid the the positive interactions we have had might be effected, but time will tell. He initiated physical contact, but there was no romance in it. He kept saying it wasn't fair for him to ask me, but I really wanted the contact. I ended up saying I love you, and he didn't respond. So I brought up R talk, just asking if he had been thinking about things and if he thinks there is hope for us. He told me he had not had time to think about it. So I kissed him and told him I think it is best if I just went to bed.
It was the hardest thing I have ever done. But I'm glad I did it, even though I feel so sad right now. I hated that reminder that he still doesn't think I am worth the effort. I think things are changing with him, and I think that those changes are positive for us, but last night reminded me that we are still so far away from starting fresh with each other. I realized that I can't make it easy for him, and that I won't accept a reconciliation that doesn't involve talking about what happened and what will make things different this time. As much as sliding back into our old patterns seems comforting (compared to this limbo) I will not put myself back in a position that would allow him to hurt me again like this.
Ms, as someone on here once said - This is a marathon, not a sprint. I'm afraid he is not going to change over night, they never do.
Don't initiate bedroom antics with him or you'll just end up getting more hurt. Have you read Sandi's rules? If so I suggest you re-read them
One of the rules is do not initiate R talks.
Try and get out with your friends when you are less busy, it'll do you the world of good
Thanks for the advice. Yes I have read and reread Sandi's rules and I haven't initiated R talks except for last night because I guess I was temperature checking. I don't know if I was very clear in my last post because I was kind of in a rush when I was typing. He wanted to, I was considering it, but before I made up my mind I just had to know if his mind had changed at all. That was when the R talk came up. His responses were better than a few months ago, but not where I need them to be to feel comfortable so rather than going ahead with ML I told him I think it would be best if I just went to bed.
My sadness comes from having to say no to him, when I really wanted to say yes. But also because he isn't where I was hoping he would be. But I am very proud of myself. For the first time I set a boundary and stuck with it. The last time we ML it felt like the right thing to do, and it served its purpose. It eased the tension, it gave me some hope. If I gave in last night I would have been making it easy for him. Setting up a precedent that he doesn't have to work at this relationship if he wants me back. So I know I did the right thing by passing up his advances even if it hurts to have to say no. Today I was worried things would be awkward, but they actually seem better than before. I think because for the first time since this all happened I feel like he knows that even though I want him back, I am not going to compromise my needs to make that happen.
I know we probably aren't any where near piecing right now, but it was good practice for making sure I don't let my desire for quick fixes impede the work we need to do to have a better marriage than before.
That's good MS
You're making good progress in your way to being independent and not needing your H at the mo