Suckerpunch needs a life - DivorceBusting.com

Here is my old thread

Why do you accept so many lame excuses for not gal-ing with new people, when that is the remedy for the rut you complain about being stuck in?

Is it really that simple? All I know is, I have to save myself. My marriage is second place now. I am beginning to slip into such a state of depression. I feel absolutely broken. I can hardly even put my shoes on and walk out the door today....so much sadness

You're going to be sad, accept it. It will pass. Remember when you've been sad before?

It's a part of life.

Make some plans to do something new this weekend or whenever you have time off.

SP - Forgive me if I have asked this, but are you seeing a therapist?

Yes, it really is that simple. You get among some new people who don't know, don't care, don't talk to you about your marital problems, and you learn to smile and have a good time with them and get outside of yourself. And get out of your comfort zone. If it weren't important, DB'ers wouldn't be telling every single WAS, a thousand times a day, to do it. It's frustrating when they say but it's hard and then, I can't stop thinking about my WAS. It really helps, and that is why it is so much pushed around here.

I am sorry you are having such a difficult time. It is such hard to move forward. Are you working with a counselor or a coach, the right person can help you. There are a couple of our coaches that also deal with depression and the issues that go with it. Of course, seeing a M.D. might be good also, you want to be as healthy as you can so that you can go forward. Please keep at it...time does help, as well as support from friends, family and even strangers here on the board. Take good care.

Unfriend her and OM on Facebook.

Now.

Thank you all for your support. Yes, I am sad and yes it will pass. Thank you, La. That thought is what I am using to keep me grounded.

I am not seeing a therapist, but perhaps I should give more consideration to doing so. I am really struggling with this now. I have backslid something terrible over the last few days. It literally feels like my life is crumbling around me. I have been thinking about asking W to move off our property, so she isn't in my direct line of sight. Unfortunately, she can't afford a place of her own, and I can't even afford the pay for the things I have on the table now. So, I have been thinking about ways around it. It all boils down to me selling off my belongings and drastically changing my life. Even the thought of that puts me in a deeper state of depression. Meanwhile, wife is going on vacation AGAIN, next weekend with OM. It just feels like my life is shattering, while she is living the life she wanted, at the expense of me and daughter who had no say in this situation. I know I need to change my perspective, but that is all I have at the moment to focus on.

I weened myself off of my AD several months ago. I felt solid enough that I wasn't needing them anymore. I might have to consider getting back on the perscription.

I AM going to branch out and do new things. I have to. I have to save myself. I know in my mind that GAL is going to be the key to my survival. It's just hard. I have tried to find solid people to connect with. They are either so broken themselves, or not really looking for new friends. Building a new circle is pretty tough. There just doesn't seem to be that much out there, that fit in with my interests and values. I am pretty much a married man at heart. I have strong family values and it seems that people in the singles world are "NOT", for a lack of a better explanation.

I will just try to carry on, look for a new life for myself. I am sure I will be here often looking for emotional support. The divorce process hasn't even started, but I am already not sure I will be able to cope with it.....[censored]!

Might be a really good idea to find a therapist if you can and look at getting back on AD, they really can help take the edge off so you can get back on your feet.

SP-

Call a therapist and try to get a psychiatrist NOW. In most places you wont get in quick so set appointments up now. Also, as you prob already know, it takes 3+ visits for sig change.

Being a MVP client of professional help for most of my life I know that in most cases it is the most efficient way out of the muck your stuck in. You are in the suck and I dont want you to feel overwhelmed and/or hopeless/helpless.

You need to start with a plan and goals that you can control the outcome of 100%. Your daughter is going to need a strong Daddy in every way- Thats how I designed my goals.

In the beginning I walked.....I was the forest gump of walking. I then purchased a bike. I know that if I sit I dwell- If I dwell I go to a ugly place in my mind. So EVERY TIME i was bored or thinking negative I would walk or ride until my head was numb and I started to sing - all alone.

I dont know what you do workwise however I became involved with the chamber of commerce and the United way. I suddenly was surrounded by positive action focused people. Those two organizations always need help. Becoming a member of a boys/ girls club is usually inexpensive and they usually have lots of activities classes. My local high school also does PM classes - Im going to learn the guitar and speak Mandarin

Divorce is horrible and sucky and many other words- Its even worse if you become so emotionally broken that you take years to get back on your feet.A benefit of all this work will be that if /when W and boytoy hit a bumpy patch you will be in a position to choose if you want to pick up the pieces- because you will be so detached you will CHOOSE.

I was where you were....Im doing ALOT better now- You will too. The choices you make now will determine how long it takes you to get there.

Do it for your daughter - She needs a strong Daddy.....no matter what happens

Thanks so much PS. I like the idea of no idle time. I have been spending a LOT of time just focusing, sitting, dwelling and thinking how bad life is. Yesterday I worked my tail off doing heavy construction at my business. I didn't have time to think, let alone dwell, so that made the day go by better. Unfortunately, anytime I take a short break, my mind goes right back to the dark places.

I will research psychiatrists, if my state of emotion doesn't start to subside after the weekend.

suckerpunch,

I have battled depression for years and refuse to take medication. I'm not saying that's the best route to go, and I'm certainly not diagnosing you, but I have found out quite a bit through trial and error.

For me, I respond well to routine, so I discovered that forcing myself to go through the motions, even when I didn't feel like it, pulled me out of depression faster than anything else.

I found specific things in my life that I knew were healthy for me, and I just went ahead and did those things, even when I didn't want to because I knew it would help. Things for me were, as examples:

eating healthy (and enough, as [often] I had little desire to eat)
exercise
church
spending time with my kids

And even though I didn't necessarily want to do those things going in, I never regretted doing any of them afterwards. So I learned to always do things that I knew I wouldn't regret, and to not cop out on myself by skipping those actions because I knew I would regret not doing them later on (it has a way of continuing the downward spiral, and you need to generate upward momentum).

So my advice is: Have no regrets. Don't feed the depression monster. Fake it 'til you make it.

I know how you feel and it sux. All the best.

-PM

I am settling back down a little. I am still having a couple battles with tears here and there, but overall I am feeling better and more solid. That was a rough week!

I have had almost zero contact with wife, the exception being a couple facebook messages she sent, explaining that her cell phone had broke. Therefore, I was unable to have any contact with daughter since Wednesday. It kind of makes me mad, because I am sure wife could have borrowed her BF's phone, pay phone, etc. so that I would be able to speak with my daughter. I was not able to physically see her because W and D spent the weekend with OM, apparrently. They were not on our property, other than for a few minutes saturday morning, I was told. It is what it is, I guess. I get daughter back today at 3pm.

Wife asked to swap visitation days with daughter, because she is leaving with OM on a trip mid week.....again, being very irresponsible with her finances. I am torn about how I will reply this time. I have been EXTREMELY flexible with all of her requests lately, but this is getting to the point of being ridiculous. On the other hand, it really is no inconveinence to me, but I feel she needs to start scheduling her activities around our parenting plan. I would appreciate any thoughts on this....

Originally Posted By: PatientMan

suckerpunch,

I have battled depression for years and refuse to take medication. I'm not saying that's the best route to go, and I'm certainly not diagnosing you, but I have found out quite a bit through trial and error.

For me, I respond well to routine, so I discovered that forcing myself to go through the motions, even when I didn't feel like it, pulled me out of depression faster than anything else.

I found specific things in my life that I knew were healthy for me, and I just went ahead and did those things, even when I didn't want to because I knew it would help. Things for me were, as examples:

eating healthy (and enough, as [often] I had little desire to eat)
exercise
church
spending time with my kids

And even though I didn't necessarily want to do those things going in, I never regretted doing any of them afterwards. So I learned to always do things that I knew I wouldn't regret, and to not cop out on myself by skipping those actions because I knew I would regret not doing them later on (it has a way of continuing the downward spiral, and you need to generate upward momentum).

So my advice is: Have no regrets. Don't feed the depression monster. Fake it 'til you make it.

I know how you feel and it sux. All the best.

-PM

I'm sorry but this is downright dangerous to suggest this. First if all, you aren't qualified to diagnos anyone let alone perscribe any treatment. Depression drugs have literally saved millions of lives. Yes there are bad reactions and side effects as with any drugs, but that is no reaon to suggest somone should talk with someone about them. In fact, it could be lethal.
Most depression drugs work best with therapy. Or therapy alone can be effective

The brain chemistry involved in diagnosed depression is such that Faking it isn't realistic. It just doesn't work like that.

I'm happy you seemed cured yourself, but I'd leave everything else to experts.

Sucker. If you are feeling a little better now is the time to act on getting checked out. Many times people go thru the cycle of depression don't act when they are feeling better and have no way to cope if/when they sink. I wish you the best.

Hi, SP,

Sorry I haven't posted to u in a while. Dealing w my own "stuff."

Just wanted to pipe in that I've been thinking about u off & on & your sitch.

Interesting that your perspective is that "singles out there" aren't really married people at heart, yet there are so many of us DBing that are right there with you "out there" thinking exactly the same thing!

"Fake it until you make it" does help me. When I am focusing on my sitch and not in the present w my kids I go and interact w them and usually end up having fun and feeling so much better afterwards. I do have to force it to start, but I know it changes to "making it" somewhere along the way!

I agree that NOW is the time to seek counseling/help. You will (as you know) cycle through these emotions over and over and over. So, even though you've made it through a rough week, you know very well it isn't the end of those emotions.

Stay strong, my friend! You are definitely not in a boat by yourself even though it may feel that way!

Originally Posted By: suckerpunch

I am settling back down a little. I am still having a couple battles with tears here and there, but overall I am feeling better and more solid. That was a rough week!

Glad you're feeling better. I'd still go talk to a doctor about getting back on A/D's though, because it sounds like you were in pretty deep!

Quote:

It kind of makes me mad, because I am sure wife could have borrowed her BF's phone, pay phone, etc. so that I would be able to speak with my daughter.

Try to refocus, instead of blaming your W figure out if there's a way to resolve this on your own. Maybe buy a cheap disposable phone for D so you can talk to her whenever you want without needing your W to facilitate it.

Quote:

Wife asked to swap visitation days with daughter, because she is leaving with OM on a trip mid week.....again, being very irresponsible with her finances.

Whenever I read something like that it just makes me think of LABug's "stinking thinking" quote. That kind of thinking just fosters a negative attitude. Refocus!

Quote:

I am torn about how I will reply this time. I have been EXTREMELY flexible with all of her requests lately, but this is getting to the point of being ridiculous. On the other hand, it really is no inconveinence to me, but I feel she needs to start scheduling her activities around our parenting plan. I would appreciate any thoughts on this....

If it's no inconvenience to you then do it. You need to start thinking of her as a coparent, not your W. The long and short of it is that you are upset because she's going with OM. If she was going to visit a sick friend or family member I'm sure you wouldn't care, right? You need to get yourself to a point where there is no difference to you. You shouldn't care whether she's going to see a sick friend or going to jump naked out of a plane. All you should care about is your schedule and whether you can accommodate her request or not. If you can't then fine, tell her that. But don't refuse just because you don't like what she's doing with her time, that's not your business anymore. I'm not saying you need to approve of what she's doing, I'm just saying you have got to quit letting it affect you so deeply. Make everything about YOU and your D. Leave your W alone to make or break her own life.

SP, I do hope you get the treatment you need.

Harrier makes some excellent points.

A parent's depression can affect their children, take care of your D by taking care of you.

Originally Posted By: Harrier

Originally Posted By: PatientMan

suckerpunch,

I have battled depression for years and refuse to take medication. I'm not saying that's the best route to go, and I'm certainly not diagnosing you, but I have found out quite a bit through trial and error.

For me, I respond well to routine, so I discovered that forcing myself to go through the motions, even when I didn't feel like it, pulled me out of depression faster than anything else.

I found specific things in my life that I knew were healthy for me, and I just went ahead and did those things, even when I didn't want to because I knew it would help. Things for me were, as examples:

eating healthy (and enough, as [often] I had little desire to eat)
exercise
church
spending time with my kids

And even though I didn't necessarily want to do those things going in, I never regretted doing any of them afterwards. So I learned to always do things that I knew I wouldn't regret, and to not cop out on myself by skipping those actions because I knew I would regret not doing them later on (it has a way of continuing the downward spiral, and you need to generate upward momentum).

So my advice is: Have no regrets. Don't feed the depression monster. Fake it 'til you make it.

I know how you feel and it sux. All the best.

-PM

I'm sorry but this is downright dangerous to suggest this. First if all, you aren't qualified to diagnos anyone let alone perscribe any treatment. Depression drugs have literally saved millions of lives. Yes there are bad reactions and side effects as with any drugs, but that is no reaon to suggest somone should talk with someone about them. In fact, it could be lethal.
Most depression drugs work best with therapy. Or therapy alone can be effective

The brain chemistry involved in diagnosed depression is such that Faking it isn't realistic. It just doesn't work like that.

I'm happy you seemed cured yourself, but I'd leave everything else to experts.

Sucker. If you are feeling a little better now is the time to act on getting checked out. Many times people go thru the cycle of depression don't act when they are feeling better and have no way to cope if/when they sink. I wish you the best.

I specifically said I wasn't diagnosing him or recommending my route. "Fake it 'til you make it" is an extremely common recommendation on this forum and in the DB book for going through this emotionally tough time.

-PM

I am glad you are feeling a little better. It would be a good time to get some assistance, as it is much harder to make appointments and follow through when you are so down. If you aren't talking to anyone, please consider talking to a DB coach. If you call me I will suggest the coaches that deal with depression as well as the other issues that are going on in your family. Take good care.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

If it's no inconvenience to you then do it. You need to start thinking of her as a coparent, not your W. The long and short of it is that you are upset because she's going with OM. If she was going to visit a sick friend or family member I'm sure you wouldn't care, right? You need to get yourself to a point where there is no difference to you. You shouldn't care whether she's going to see a sick friend or going to jump naked out of a plane. All you should care about is your schedule and whether you can accommodate her request or not. If you can't then fine, tell her that. But don't refuse just because you don't like what she's doing with her time, that's not your business anymore. I'm not saying you need to approve of what she's doing, I'm just saying you have got to quit letting it affect you so deeply. Make everything about YOU and your D. Leave your W alone to make or break her own life.

Great advice.

You all have such good advice. I will make an appointment with my doctor today. I am feeling somewhat fine, just the typical sadness that affects me from moment to moment, but I think that is to be expected. I still very much need to get a handle on my emotions, so that I can find my own happiness.

I have realized that going a little more dark is necessary to save myself. The less contact I have with wife, and the less snooping or conversing about her that I do, the better I feel. I just need to make her, Or at least the relationship with her, a past memory and move forward. I have had such a hard time understanding why this is all happening, and that is probably a big reason for my depression. I just don't get why we can't fix the issues. She sees it otherwise, and unfortunately that is her reality so I need to accept it. I am still very upset that she feels she needs to completely rewrite her life. She is involved with OM, all new friends and all new activities. She is becoming a completely different person in all aspects. I know that will not last, and I don't entirely understand why she thinks it is a good solution....I need to let go of these thoughts and worry about myself. It is that simple.

The issue I am having with wife and finances are, she still expects a large settlement. I have expressed to her that it is simply not going to happen without a fight. However, she is still spending every cent of her money on her self enjoyment, and saving nothing to secure her future. I am still putting a roof over her head, still paying her utility bills. She is broke and not making an effort to move forward on her own and that simply pisses me off. What she does with her life can't concern me anymore. However, when her life affects mine, I carry some emotional burden. She wants a divorce. She wants money as a settlement. She wants separation. She wanted to walk out that door. That does not mean I have to help her with her choices. She needs to carry on with her own wishes, so that I can have some peace with my life. I don't feel that is too much to ask. She wanted this, not me.

Originally Posted By: suckerpunch

I have had such a hard time understanding why this is all happening, and that is probably a big reason for my depression.

You have got to let go of that need to understand, because you will never understand. Your W probably doesn't understand either. WAS's are driven by emotions, not logic. You can't hope to understand emotionally-driven behavior.

Quote:

I just don't get why we can't fix the issues.

It's not a flat tire you're dealing with, it's WAS emotions. Emotions can't be "fixed". They can change over time though. LOTS of time.

Quote:

However, she is still spending every cent of her money on her self enjoyment, and saving nothing to secure her future.

^^^Not your issue^^^

Quote:

I am still putting a roof over her head, still paying her utility bills.

^^^Who are you blaming for this?^^^

Quote:

She is broke and not making an effort to move forward on her own and that simply pisses me off.

= not detached

Quote:

What she does with her life can't concern me anymore.

Exactly!

Quote:

She wanted this, not me.

There's that blaming again. Your W felt that this was a last resort to what she saw as a horrible marriage. She didn't "want" this, she felt like she had to do it to save herself. Try to have some compassion towards her, remember that this has been very painful for her too. Remember that you played a very big part in things getting to this point.

Someone else posted this quote in another thread, but it made me think of you SP:

Quote:

If there�s one thing we all have in common it�s that we want to feel happy; and on the other side of that coin, we want to avoid hurting. Yet we consistently put ourselves in situations that set us up for pain.

We pin our happiness to people, circumstances, and things and hold onto them for dear life. We stress about the possibility of losing them when something seems amiss. Then we melt into grief when something changes�a lay off, a break up, a transfer.

We attach to feelings as if they define us, and ironically, not just positive ones. If you�ve wallowed in regret or disappointment for years, it can seem safe and even comforting to suffer.

In trying to hold on to what�s familiar, we limit our ability to experience joy in the present. A moment can�t possibly radiate fully when you�re suffocating it in fear.

When you stop trying to grasp, own, and control the world around you, you give it the freedom to fulfill you without the power to destroy you. That�s why letting go is so important: letting go is letting happiness in.

It�s no simple undertaking to let go of attachment�not a one-time decision, like pulling off a band-aid. Instead, it�s a day-to-day, moment-to-moment commitment that involves changing the way you experience and interact with everything you instinctively want to grasp.

I looked up the quote and it came from here. There's some other good stuff on that page that's pertinent to our sitches too.

Thank you, AS. You always have something positive to add, to bring me back to reality.

I guess I will never understand W's reasoning for leaving the relationship. She seems very calculated and decisive. She doesn't seem to be acting out of emotion at all. I need to just let it go I guess. She has made her decision.

I will be pulling back more and more. I haven't been doing that, because I truly wanted to save this marriage, or at very least give it a second chance. I am just now beginning to realize that is never going to happen, and therefore I must change the focus to the life ahead of me. I can't keep putting my hope in the possibility that wife will come back. She isn't coming back. I will be amicable with her. I owe that to my daughter, but I will have to remove myself from her contact. I haven't been doing that, because I did not want to come off as cold and distant. unfortunately, I think that is going to be my only way to save myself. I think I just need to start blowing her off and pushing her away....far away. I need to end it.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

Someone else posted this quote in another thread, but it made me think of you SP:

Quote:

If there�s one thing we all have in common it�s that we want to feel happy; and on the other side of that coin, we want to avoid hurting. Yet we consistently put ourselves in situations that set us up for pain.

We pin our happiness to people, circumstances, and things and hold onto them for dear life. We stress about the possibility of losing them when something seems amiss. Then we melt into grief when something changes�a lay off, a break up, a transfer.

We attach to feelings as if they define us, and ironically, not just positive ones. If you�ve wallowed in regret or disappointment for years, it can seem safe and even comforting to suffer.

In trying to hold on to what�s familiar, we limit our ability to experience joy in the present. A moment can�t possibly radiate fully when you�re suffocating it in fear.

When you stop trying to grasp, own, and control the world around you, you give it the freedom to fulfill you without the power to destroy you. That�s why letting go is so important: letting go is letting happiness in.

It�s no simple undertaking to let go of attachment�not a one-time decision, like pulling off a band-aid. Instead, it�s a day-to-day, moment-to-moment commitment that involves changing the way you experience and interact with everything you instinctively want to grasp.

I looked up the quote and it came from here. There's some other good stuff on that page that's pertinent to our sitches too.

That would have been uRworthy on mine.

Oh, SP, I so feel your pain. BUt, I agree w AS and others...you need to stop analyzing why your wife is where she is. It doesn't get YOU anywhere.

You need to detach, and I think you know how. NC w your wife (or as little as possible).

"I need to end it." I recently came to this conclusion as well. BUt, for me I felt myself getting closer and closer to wanting this myself. You have to feel ready--on your own time.

Forget about what your W is doing/that she is w OM. What do you want going forward?

SP, you are worth the love of someone who will love you back. You need to heal, so you need to decide what it will take for you to move forward with your life and change your focus to You completely!

You are so right, GTO. But my heart just won't let go. To make things worse, wife just called and asked me for a small favor. I had already spent most of the day thinking about how I would bring this whole process to more of a closure. So, during the phone call just now, I asked W when she would be able to start moving her things out of our home. One thing led to another and she became combative and upset. I validated her, stayed calm and gave her some words of affirmation. However at the same time, I was firm with my wish to reconcile. I acknowledge my mistakes in the marriage and apologized. I was clear that her feelings were not the same, and that she wanted to move on. I told her that I needed to put some distance between us, to save myself. I let her know how deeply my emotional hurt was going, and I asked that she allow me to pull back completely, for me. All she could express was how poorly I listened and acted during the marriage. She also kept trying to put me in a position of being selfish and not wishing to negotiate with her, which was absolutely untrue, and I think she even realizes it. She was literally wanting to fight, but I would not fight with her.....so no, My downward spiral begins again. I need to stop this before it kills me. I can't take it anymore.

SP
I am so sorry what u are going thru. My heart hasn't let go either. I love my H. But, I felt the ultimate act of love was to let him go. Completely.

It wasn't really what I wanted at all. BUt, it was necessary to save myself and to give myself HOPE for the future. My H doesn't love me any more. There is another woman in his heart. This kills me-absolutely kills me.

But, if I believe I can be happier than I've ever been w/o him and that my future holds wonderful things, then I can move forward. I can and I am.

You need to stop talking to her. NC!! When you are ready you will want to drop the rope FOR YOU!

What if u knew there was another woman out there just waiting for u to love her and to love u back with all her heart. Knowing that your W is unlikely to change her path. What if she recognized you for all that u are and all that u have to give?

But first u have to heal and accept that your M is over. Detach!

Originally Posted By: suckerpunch

...so no, My downward spiral begins again. I need to stop this before it kills me. I can't take it anymore.

Have you found anything that reliably pulls you up? Exercise? Prayer? A movie? Watching sports? Out with friends?

What have you tried?

-PM

SP, your heart will let go when it does. It won't happen overnight or because you one day say "Heart, let go."

Start small, try something new a couple of days of the week, even if it's just changing your routine.

Change something in your house. Take your D to a different restaurant, anything that changes your old patterns. Just keep building on that day by day. Try a new workout.

Don't beat yourself up about not being as detached as you think you should be, that just serves to increase all those negative feelings. You'll get here but you do need to commit to working on it and I don't think you've done that yet.

You're not ready to engage with her now. Do protect yourself.

I have tried it all. I can pull myself up, for the moment. However, once I am finished with whatever it is I am doing, my mind races right back to focusing on wife. Almost every morning for the last couple weeks I have woken up, dreaming or consciously thinking about my wife and marriage. I don't know how to stop that. I am sleeping for crying out loud!

I am really struggling with putting her behind me and moving forward. I will not lose myself though. I refuse to let this portion of my life control my future. I just need to get through it, some how, some way, so that I can move on.

I am going to try my best not to engage wife anymore, other than in regards to daughter or divorce agreements. I just need to let it happen, the quicker the better at this point.

I'm not telling you to stop that, I'm asking you to accept it. This is where you are right now. I did that waking up and the reality hitting me thing for a long time...a. long. time. And I still do it occasionally. It is what it is. We aren't living in the Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

What I did was build new routines/activities into my life that helped to give me other things to focus on. Sometimes it was just minutes but over time those minutes lengthened into half-hours and then hours, etc. Sometimes I didn't do those routines, I didn't beat myself up about "taking time off" but just started again.

Now when I have those mornings, I don't try to make the sadness go away, I acknowledge it, see it for what it is, an emotion that will pass, and go about my day.

Just so you know once again, this doesn't happen overnight. But it's one of those thing that I've built into my life. It's helpful (understatement) to me.

Be in charge of what you can, let the rest go.

How about if you think instead of "I'm struggling" "I'm going through a very painful time in my life and I'm doing the what I can to move through it."

Give yourself some breathing room.

Less snooping? Hmmmm.... Should change that to NO snooping. As tempting as it is, it will cause nothing but grief and pain. Speaking from my own experience, the self-inflicted wounds seem to hurt more and last longer.

I was seeing my pastor for counseling in SC and he introduced me to a psychologist from the church. This guy told me to eat better, get more sleep, and exercise. He feels that AD should be a later method if the first ones don't.

I feel stronger every day. I still have emotional days. i am still angry sometimes. I just can't pretend that the last thirteen years of my life no longer exist.

However, I am getting better at dealing with this all. You will too.

Off to church for this guy...

You're right, MrCas. No more snooping at all. I was continuously looking on her Facebook. I have stopped that completely, because like you say, it has caused me nothing but grief and pain. As much as I want to, it is just not healthy for me to see.

This weekend was a whirlwind. Daughter and I were very active, had lots of fun, and I also shed a few tears. All in all, we had some good "quality time" together. We engaged in some fun activities. We visited with friends, took in a car show, went to a open air market. Daughter got a chance to do some simulated rock climbing, and she made it all the way to the top, to ring the bell. I am guessing she was up around 25-30 feet. She loved it! Yesterday, we went for a ride in our custom car. We also spent a few hours down on the river bed with a couple friends, tossing rocks, building sand castles and trying to catch a fish....Unfortunately no fish :-( We ended the night having dinner with family. Daughter got a chance to play with her cousin. Again, it is kind of ironic, but these are wife's family members that I have become very close with. Wife has distanced herself from them....such is the oddity of this whole process. You really learn who is important to you and who is not.

One thing I learned about myself and life, this weekend, is that I need to put more focus on enjoying time with daughter and loved ones. That was always an issue with W and I. She wanted to play all the time. I wanted to focus on home and business. I am beginning to see how important it is to have a balance. Life is too short to miss out on the potential fun times. I need to get more involved with fun stuff, not that I don't have lots of interests and activities that I already enjoyed, but I think I need to do more of the stuff that pulls me away from home.

This morning, I was up and awake at 3:30am. My mind was doing it's thing again, worrying about the failure of the marriage and how unfair it all seems. I accepted that I was just having feelings, and that they would eventually pass. They did. I also did a lot of thinking about how to end this all. Wife says that she needs to have a settlement before she moves out. As much as I hate the thought of it, I think I am going to have to really dig deep and start letting go of the material and financial things, simply to move this situation along. It's funny, but when she first left me she expressed that "we had nothing". She meant that our relationship was nothing, and all we had were material things. She said over and over again that she didn't care the slightest bit about material items and therefore there was nothing even remotely holding her to this relationship. Now, here we are getting ready to battle over a bedroom set or a washer and dryer. It seems ironic to me, especially considering how I have always been the material one, and I am now ready to just give it all away in hopes of saving myself emotionally. It is surreal that this aspect has come full circle.

I am trying to figure out how to go about doing this "dark" thing. I dearly need to find some peace. The constant worrying, hoping, crying, stressing, etc. is really breaking me down. I am at the end of my patience, in hopes that wife will return. She asked me today about taking Daughter on a camping trip with OM. She asked, because it would interfere with my visitation day. I get that. She was being considerate of my time with daughter, but it doesn't make it any easier for me to stomach. I agreed to let daughter go and make the time up at some other point. I tried to keep the text conversation as short as humanly possible. I don't want to talk with wife anymore. Actually, I feel stupid even referring to her as "wife". I need to stop that. I just want some peace, for myself. I need to find a way to come to grips with that fact that this thing is over. My marriage is done. I feel completely broken, and emotionally drained. I just want some peace and happiness back in my life. How do I go dark without becoming distant and cold? Does it even matter? I mean, why am I trying so hard to keep a loving, caring connection with this woman who doesn't choose to reciprocate? Why am I not telling her, "have fun, good luck and get F%&#ed!"?

SP... a recap of a conversation I had with myself yesterday...

"So, I pulled over and had a talk with myself...

I asked myself what can I do about any of the past?

Hmmmm. Nothing.

What could you possibly say to the W that will magically change her mind?

Hmmmm. Nothing.

What can you do for the W that will speed her along her journey?

Hmmmm. Nothing.

What would I change about the journey I have taken the last seven months?

Hmmmm. Nothing."

I have those days and moments. The days get further apart and the moments get easier to handle.

Detaching doesn't mean you can't have hope. It doesn't mean to forget. It means to let go.

The hardest thing I had to learn was I can not fix this. I can not change this. I will never make my W change her mind. I have to accept that she is on her own journey. I can not help her on her way to a quicker resolution.

I feel that any attempt to make any move towards reconciling is going just push her further away. It is just going to make her feel something I don't want her to.

I got it.

It will come, brother. Honestly.

SP, for what its worth I am struggling majorly. Somehow we will get through this. I have been trying to focus on my breathing when I am alone and hurting. Just close my eyes and breathe. Feel your chest rise and fall, feel the breath come in and go out.
Peace

Thanks, Cas. I need to write that down and read it to myself when I get anxious. Good words.

Stop by for a slice and a beer.

Originally Posted By: suckerpunch

I will be pulling back more and more. I haven't been doing that, because I truly wanted to save this marriage, or at very least give it a second chance.

One of the great ironies of saving your M is the harder you try, the less likely you are to save it. Anything you do to save the M is just perceived by the WAS as pressure and it drives them farther away. The LBS has to work on themselves, when they start becoming strong, independent and confident again it's then that the WAS may look back.

Quote:

I am just now beginning to realize that is never going to happen, and therefore I must change the focus to the life ahead of me. I can't keep putting my hope in the possibility that wife will come back. She isn't coming back.

It's impossible to tell whether she'll come back or not, it's too early to know that. But if you have to believe that in order to save yourself then perhaps you should assume that.

Quote:

My marriage is done. I feel completely broken, and emotionally drained.

Try to think of it as one chapter closing and another opening. Because that's what it is NO MATTER WHAT. Even if your W changed her mind this afternoon and said she wanted to reconcile, it's still not a continuation of the last chapter. That chapter is closed, slam it shut with a thud and grieve it's ending, and make yourself a blank slate to write the next chapter on. Be like a child full of wonder and awe at what's ahead!

Quote:

I just want some peace and happiness back in my life.

Then put it there, because that is completely under your control.

Quote:

How do I go dark without becoming distant and cold?

Let me ask you this- if you're 100% sure your M is over as you've said, how would you respond to the above question?

Today is another one of those days. I surely wish I was able to put all this good advice into a productive application, to find my happiness again. It is all ringing true in my ears. I just can't put it to work in my heart.

Today, MIL, SIL and her children are spending the morning/afternoon sitting pool side at my business. MIL is here to babysit daughter while wife works. I get to looks them in the eye and smile while I work my tail off. When wife gets off, MIL will go home and wife will take daughter to OM's house. I don't know why, but I can't find any peace in that. It just upsets me. I keep trying to tell myself, "it's just emotion. It will pass". It does pass, but shortly after it comes back in another form. I just can't stop fixating on it, no matter how hard I try....I just gotta keep telling myself, I will get there.

Here is the reason I feel the marriage is over. It's been almost 9 months, not a crazy long time, but not short term either. During the separation, wife has been ADIMENT that she is never coming back. We have not had ANY of those moments where feelings are shared, regrets are expressed, nothing. She wants out, and she has since day one. Furthermore, she says that she has been extremely unhappy for a very long time. Why on Earth would she choose to come back? she knows in her mind that her loneliness and depression about the marriage wasn't just a short term flash in the pan. It lasted for years and years. Also, she is completely starting her new life. She has all new friends, all new activities, and a new man in her life. She is becoming attached to his family and her new circle of friends. She has expressed to me that she is happy, content and having fun. Why would she want to give that up? Finances don't seem to be a concern for her. Living conditions don't seem to bother her. She appears perfectly happy being a part time Mom. What would her incentive be to return? I don't think she will, based on all of the above. I don't think most WAS ever come back, for these very reasons. I believe a WAS that returns, had a deeper connection to the LBS, or they had a lesser reason for leaving and staying gone in the first place. I think a WAS that returns is probably very rare. My wife is on the far end of being detached and moved on. She is not wavering in her choices, at least not any longer. She is already gone, at least in my opinion.

I don't have much to add, but I'd like to hear what others think. Especially any former WAS. I kind of feel like this, except I get a strong feeling, like an undercurrent or some kind of buzz that I just can't identify, that my W isn't really as happy or independent as she's trying to make out. I always say "maybe I'm delusional, but that's the feeling I get."

I think their happiness is part of the illusion or delusion. When I first took off, i wanted everyone to think I was having the time of my life and the world was perfect.

What the truth was is that I dated a bunch of women to prove I was manly. What my mental state was was a sort of tunnel vision. Before I started to come to grips with anything, I had never been angrier, more miserable, or more unsatisfied with my life than I had ever been.

How could that be? I had my dream job... I was away from my wife... I was out of Minnesota... These were the things that I swore were the roots of ALL my problems. I would have bet dollars to donuts that my life was going to perfect.

What I found was that I could run away from issues and people but I could not run away from myself.

I think this is what a lot of WAS find but are just too afraid or prideful to admit it. It is no fun eating crow and admitting that you made a serious error in judgement. Ego and pride are key killers in a lot of relationships for a myriad of reasons.

SP, sorry if I hijacked your thread but it was to illustrate a point. Nine months is not a long time. In the big picture, it is but a blip. Sometimes with you I think of an old saying... "Your actions are speaking so loudly I can not hear what your mouth is saying."

Attitude, thoughts, and emotions create an aura. People can and do feel that aura that you project. That is why we gravitate towards some people and get bad ju ju from others. we can all fake a happy face but you can't fake the vibes you put out.

Originally Posted By: suckerpunch

During the separation, wife has been ADIMENT that she is never coming back. We have not had ANY of those moments where.... regrets are expressed, nothing.

SP,

Just my $.02. You gotta get rid of any expectations. She may NEVER express regret. Don't have any expectations and don't steer conversations toward making her feel guilty. Just try your hardest to let it go. Try to stop thinking about how she should feel or act... I know it's hard.

Good luck!

No worries, Cas. Hijack anytime. I get a lot from your words. It helps me so much to have input from others that know how this sitch feels.

I don't know what you feel. I won't pretend to, either. I can only attest to what and how I feel. However, I can and do emphasize with your feelings.

Sometimes, I feel helpless. I feel like there is no hope. I feel like I have lost the best relationship I ever had. Maybe i did. Maybe not. I looked but my crystal ball is broken right now and the warranty ran out, dang it all.

What I am doing is working on ME. I have enough stuff on my plate to get my mind off what is happening with her. I have a house to clean. I have to find a job. I have to worry about a mortgage and a truck payment. I have my dog to take care of.

All in all, life is getting better even without my W being here. Yes, I miss her. I would love to have what we had once. However, those days are gone. There is no turning back the clock.

You have your work. You have your house. Most importantly, you have your daughter. She needs her Daddy to be strong. She needs to feel the manly vibes coming out from you.

You can do this, brother. I am sure of it.

Just checking in with you, SP...

Where you with things today?

SP-

Have you been successful at making a appt with a T or a Dr. yet?

Can you come up with a goal for yourself- One that you are 100% in control of the outcome?

You are too good a man to trudge through the depression muck more then you have too....Talk to the T and/or Dr about A.D's . Im not trying to push- its MUCH better to be pro-active and keeps you in control.

suckerpunch, just letting you know I am in the same time period. My W BDropped 9 months ago. In those 9 months we have had very little (see all of my topics) communication, either text, face to face, email or phone. We haven't had any talks about us, what went wrong (apart from the first few weeks) or the future. She has constantly (in the few times we have communicated) confirmed it is over, doesn't want reconciliation, no MC and she wants to move on.
Then out of the blue last weekend she initiates a text. The day before my reply to the solicitor about our assets being divided. During our meeting, I find out she isn't the happy, new life type person she made herself out to be. She looked unhappy and emotional. She hasn't made any changes in moving on, or improving herself mentally.
And I think that is the whole point of DB. We the LBS start to improve ourselves. Some go the whole extreme and work on their diet, fitness, looks (clothes, haircut etc), but mostly we work on our mental self. That is the change they see and others see (family, friends) see. That is a big thing when they are not working on themselves. They see a new us, a better us, while they still struggle with just blaming us for what has happened.
So suckerpunch, while I don't have OM to worry about, I still have the same time period as you. My long term (at this stage) is to simply think: My W had to deal with my faults/complaints for many years, so why the heck can I not put up with her faults (walking away) for some time?

Originally Posted By: MrCAS

Just checking in with you, SP...

Where you with things today?

I am doing better today...yesterday was actually a pretty good day. I have made a decision to stay positive. I think that CAN and should be a choice that is made, by me and everyone dealing with this. For the last few days, every time my mind starts sinking, I have forced myself to focus on, "hey I have a nice house"..."hey, I have lot of free time on my hands to do whatever I want, whenever I want". "hey, I should call a friend and just say Hi". The list goes on. I am still struggling with interaction with wife. I will be honest, it isn't easy for me to even see her. I have been trying to avoid her all together. We have however, been texting in regards to daughter and that is staying very amicable. The less I interact with W, the better I am feeling.

A couple things that have been issues for me in the last few days; Daughter expressed to me (when I asked her where she slept at OM house), that "mommy sleeps on the couch or sometimes in Dave's bed"....WTF! I don't know how to interpret that. I have to remind myself that this is coming from a 6yo. For all I know, she could have been sleeping in his room while he was mowing the yard. Who knows. It is however very concerning for me. I am not sure, but I highly doubt W would be so careless with daughters well being. I am not going to mind read, build a scenario or acknowledge it at this point.

I did have a long detailed conversation with MIL, regarding this sleeping incident. The conversation went into a marriage conversation, with her expressing that she thinks W is pursuing an unhappy road with her choice to move so quickly with OM and the fact that he really isn't her type in the first place. She worries about the long term....ya, no kidding MIL! Unfortunately, she also admitted that she has been giving some of this advice, about how to move on, to wife. By definition, MIL is a grand master of "getting out". If you recall, she is on her 5th marriage, which is currently struggling as well.

All in all, I am doing much better today than I was a week ago. I think I was just on a very bumpy portion of the roller coaster track.

Originally Posted By: Positivespin

SP-

Have you been successful at making a appt with a T or a Dr. yet?

Can you come up with a goal for yourself- One that you are 100% in control of the outcome?

You are too good a man to trudge through the depression muck more then you have too....Talk to the T and/or Dr about A.D's . Im not trying to push- its MUCH better to be pro-active and keeps you in control.

At this point, I have given it a lot of thought. I have not taken it up with my Dr. I do have my AD's on hand, and I could start taking them on my own. My prescription is still current. It was a personal choice for me to ween myself off them a few months ago. At this point, I am going to try other solutions, but I will definitely consider the use of my prescription if things begin to get worse again.

I am going to set goals....I think that is going to be a key to moving forward.

Originally Posted By: hotwheelsaust

suckerpunch, just letting you know I am in the same time period. My W BDropped 9 months ago. In those 9 months we have had very little (see all of my topics) communication, either text, face to face, email or phone. We haven't had any talks about us, what went wrong (apart from the first few weeks) or the future. She has constantly (in the few times we have communicated) confirmed it is over, doesn't want reconciliation, no MC and she wants to move on.
Then out of the blue last weekend she initiates a text. The day before my reply to the solicitor about our assets being divided. During our meeting, I find out she isn't the happy, new life type person she made herself out to be. She looked unhappy and emotional. She hasn't made any changes in moving on, or improving herself mentally.
And I think that is the whole point of DB. We the LBS start to improve ourselves. Some go the whole extreme and work on their diet, fitness, looks (clothes, haircut etc), but mostly we work on our mental self. That is the change they see and others see (family, friends) see. That is a big thing when they are not working on themselves. They see a new us, a better us, while they still struggle with just blaming us for what has happened.
So suckerpunch, while I don't have OM to worry about, I still have the same time period as you. My long term (at this stage) is to simply think: My W had to deal with my faults/complaints for many years, so why the heck can I not put up with her faults (walking away) for some time?

I like that. Wife did have to put up with my BS for a long time. I can put up with hers as well.....not that I didn't already, during the marriage ;-)

In regards to my sitch, wife has put a lot of effort into herself. She has done some soul searching and thinking about who she is and where she wants to go. She has been eating right, working out and drinking less. Prior to, and after BD, wife was a borderline alcoholic. Now, her drinking has tapered off to very little. Perhaps, that is a good influence from OM, who apparently doesn't drink much at all....but neither did I. Wife is happier than she was at BD. This I also know. Wife is not that good of an actor. I think a big portion of her new found happiness can be attributed to her moving on with another circle of friends, new activities and a new romantic interest. For obvious reasons, she is going to be distracted, having fun and staying busy. She doesn't have to be worried about real world issues, like day to day family things....who picks D up from school, how are we going to pay the credit cards off, etc. She is just focusing on having fun. Bottom line, She is off and running. She's stubborn. She has also been sectioned off (a lot by her own doing) into a corner, where even if she wanted to come back, pride and guilt wouldn't allow it. She has distanced herself from friends, from family, from our daily routine. For her to return, would be extremely difficult. To be honest, I have also given a lot of thought to the infidelity aspect. I am not so sure I would be able to get over the fact that my wife and mother of my daughter has more than likely slept with another man.....Just not sure if I could do it.

I am not going to give the marriage much more thought. She is heading down her own road, and I can't worry about it. I am just going to keep my distance, take care of myself and hopefully life will treat me nicely. At this point, I am going to start living my life as a happy, healthy, single man. Daughter will be my primary focus when she is with me. When she is not, I will relax and enjoy the free time....what else can I do?

A little journaling:

I had a pretty good weekend, haven't seen or heard from W since Thursday. I haven't snooped on her facebook, haven't heard about what she is doing or where she is going, haven't really had any text contact even. I really am starting to believe that just keeping her out of my sight, and having little to no contact, will help me to move forward.

I get daughter back today. I actually didn't miss her as much as I usually do, even though I had no contact with her either. Perhaps that is because I had stayed busy with work and socializing this weekend. I am however, really looking forward to spending a good quality week with her. I still brutally hate the situation that this has put her in. She doesn't deserve to have a broken family. She doesn't deserve any of this. My heart still bleeds for that part. I worry about how it will effect the course of her life, as well as mine as a father. OM is starting to slide into the "step dad" role. He is taking them camping for a week. He is contemplating buying daughter a motorcycle. He has been putting them up in his home and playing house. I struggle with that a LOT. No matter how I look at that, it will effect my connection with daughter. Those are the things a father should be doing with his daughter, not some OM. At least, those are my feelings.

For GAL, I have still been hanging in the same circles, socializing at my business, BBQing with friends and family, an occasional dinner and drinks out, but for the most part staying close to home. I have been so slammed with work, I have not had time to branch out. I need to meet more new people, and I need to start building a new circle of friends. I am still hanging, for the most part, with couples. I need to work on that.

In regards to my anger, I feel that I really making gains on controlling it. I had a little opportunity to test it this weekend. My sister and I had a blowout, in which I stayed perfectly calm and controlled. She spit venom. In the past, I would have come literally un-glued, under the circumstances. This time, I didn't lash out. I stayed controlled. I focused on the issues and didn't bring other things into it. I validated her and expressed appreciation, all happening while she was being very rude and unkind. That's clear growth for me. I am happy about that. I am happy about the way I handled it, and I am happy that I was able to control my feelings.

Learning to harness that anger is a tough one. I know it was for me.

Good on you.

Originally Posted By: suckerpunch

I still brutally hate the situation that this has put her in. She doesn't deserve to have a broken family. She doesn't deserve any of this. My heart still bleeds for that part.

As my boss is very keen to remind me, children don't ask to be born. Yes, we are mostly here because we want to save our marriages (except for those who are giving up their valuable time to give advice) and improve ourselves but we also have to remember that the children, however you dress this up, will be hurt. The only way I think it can work is to be honest and forthright with them.

SP - glad to see your doing better and back on track. Also happy to hear about how you handled your sister.

Try not to think of what you're missing out on with D or what might happen in the future. I know easier said than done but neither of those thoughts will get you anywhere. Just stay busy when she's away and when you have her pour everything you have into quality time with her. You will always be her dad and no one will take that away from you guys.

GAL - what can you do to take that next step?

Not sure what the next step is for me on my, "self growth tour". I guess I will need to get out of my comfort zone a little more. That goes without saying. I need to meet some new people, also goes without saying. I want to spread my wings and do more, outside of the home. I have been kicking around the idea of going on a vacation, just daughter and I. I would love to take her to Disneyland, but the idea of just the two of us kind of scares me and makes me sad at the same time. I need to get passed that type of thinking. I need a new outlook on life, a new beginning. I've really been thinking about what that will look like for me, and to be honest, I don't know what to do. I am not going to jump into something like underwater guitar lessons or take a class in macaroni art self help, because I don't want to dig that deep to find my niche. I pretty much know the things I like and enjoy doing. I just need to find new people, or that special new someone (when the time comes) to enjoy them with. It suckz being single. I feel like I am in a race, running around looking for things to do to fill time, and always coming home feeling empty. I never felt like that when I was married, (I guess I am still married, but I am getting myself used to looking at it like it was past tense).....I am still very lost about how to change my life. One thing at a time. I am just happy that I am controlling my anger better, and I was able to pull myself up from being in such a bad place a few short weeks ago. I need to keep the ball rolling in the right direction...towards happiness

On a side note, I did my trade-off with daughter today. I was able to pull it off without even looking wife face to face. I just opened her door and yelled up the stairs for daughter to come out. Wife never even showed her face, which was good with me. Later, she sent me a long text explaining that she was working on numbers and letters with daughter this week, and she asked if I could work on some certain things as well. She said to "enjoy your week with daughter". It was all very appropriate I guess, but I chose not to acknowledge that part of the text. She also asked about a motorcycle that a family member recently purchased. She is working on a insurance policy for him (wife is an insurance agent). I sent her back a picture and a very short reply telling her what kind of motorcycle it was. I thought to myself, "ask you customer"....I am sure I came across very cold and stand-offish in my text, which literally consisted of a picture and a 3 word sentence. Unfortunately, I do NOT wish to engage her anymore, at least not right now. I don't wish for the feeling of hurt to last any longer than it needs to at this point. I think it is best for me to stop trying to be nice in hopes of saving the marriage. I think I need to distance myself as far as humanly possible. I am not saying that I need to be mean. I won't be mean. I just don't wish to be hurt anymore and it seems like seeing her, talking to her, texting her, hearing about her, all seems to hurt me. I need to get away from her all together, even if that consists of pushing her away. I think that is best for me. I need to save myself.

ROUGH morning. I woke up early, bright eyed and bushy tailed. I was able to get some office work done before daughter woke up. She is usually NOT a morning person, so it was a pleasant surprise to hear her getting out of bed in a chipper mood. She was upbeat and ready to explore her day. We hugged, chatted for a bit and picked out an outfit to start her day. That mood changed shortly after. While I was brushing her hair, she began to whine a little.....then she pretended to hurt her ankle, and she whined more....she complained and whined some more about nothing. I asked her what the problem was all of a sudden, and she replied "Mommy and Daddy don't live together anymore". Talk about a few words that can take the wind out of your sails!!!!! It was difficult, but I laid down with her and expressed that Mommy and Daddy both love her very very much. I asked her what she didn't like about us not living together. She said she missed seeing us both at the same time. She didn't like us being apart as a family. She also said, "now that you're friends, you never even fight anymore". I really did my best to validate her feelings and encourage her to speak more openly about her feelings to us. It really hit home that she is struggling today. It kills me. It was impossible to fight back the tears, and she saw me crying as I held her in my arms. I just wish I could make it all better for her, but I don't 100% know how to handle it.

So here is my dilemma. WHAT do I do with this? How do I console her, and would that even help? Should I have her talk to her Mom about her feelings? Daughter expressed that she hasn't talked to her Mommy about it, because "Mommy never asks". Should I bring it up to her mom? Should I just brush it off as a transitional issue? I hate to have her see a counselor, but am I doing her an injustice by not addressing it professionally? You may recall, I had her seeing the school counselor a few times this past winter. The counselor said we (as parents) were doing a pretty good job. She said daughter was responding age appropriately to what was happening in her life. She noticed some regression and a little acting out. Other than that, she didn't note anything. All seemed to be progressing as well as could be hoped for.

I just don't know what to do. I don't know who to talk to for myself either. Is this something I should get off my chest to a friend, a family member? I don't really want anyone to feel that this is ANOTHER bad thing that should fall on wife's list of mistakes. The only reason I would wish to speak with someone about it, would be to have some help in the decision making process about how to help daughter deal with it. I am okay mentally, but the idea that my daughter is hurting emotionally is a tough one for me.

HELP!

Wife called today, to ask MORE questions about our family members motorcycle. Again, I expressed to her that she really should be talking directly to him. For some reason, unbeknownst to me, she feels this way is easier.....

While she was on the phone, she asked how daughter was doing. I decided I would let her know, so I relayed the story from yesterday. Wife almost sounded like she didn't believe me. She said "well, daughter has never said anything like that to me. She is my main priority". I guess she should rethink her priorities, because anyone with any common sense would realize that divorce is not in our childs best interest, nor is it something that daughter wants. where as, WORKING on fixing the marriage is. What a great model it would be for daughter, to actually work on resolving our marital issues. Regardless, wife is on her own journey. I am simply not getting involved with it anymore. I really almost regret speaking to her about our daughter. It is pointless and only adds another level of conflict. It's sad

Wife just came to my house, to pick daughter up for her visitation. I found shortly before, that wife had seen an attorney yesterday. I also found out that Wife refers to OM's mother as "mom"....What in the F*&^k????

When W arrived, Daughter was playing in the back yard with some friends and family. Daughter was very upset that she had to leave. She basically went kicking and screaming that she didn't want to go. That was very difficult for me to be a part of.

Isn't life GRAND?!!!

and the saga continues. Wife just texted me that she feels the parenting plan should be adjusted, because daughter said she wanted to spend more time with her mom.....funny, daughter tells me that she wants to spend more time at my house. So here we are....my beautiful daughter is going to become a pawn....AWESOME!

SP

My w andi are seeing a therapist that specializes in child development for the purpose of learning co parenting best practices. It's so tough but if she is sincere about wanting to be a good parent ..this might be an option - it also gives you and w an hour of focus and communication with a referee

You own a business.......do you have a active local chamber of commerce? Couldbe good marketing to offer to volunteer - and network

Hi, SP, thanks for visiting my thread.

I'm sorry you are having such difficulty. OM in your child's life has to be soooo difficult. I haven't got there yet, as H's OW has not entered their lives. I will do everything in my human power to put that off as long as possible.

So, you are very validated with your emotions regarding your D and OM in her life.

This all does suk. But, you are handling the whole thing better than you think.. Living as though you are single is a good idea. And having as little face to face interactions w your W is probably good too.

Hang in there, SP. I am thinking of you. Wish you could GAL in Boston w us tomorrow.

PS, thank you for the suggestion. I wish wife was in a better place in regards to her feelings towards me. It has recently become apparent that she still has a lot of anger and resentment. She is not in a position to be part of anything with me, even though it would be in our daughters best interests. Joint counseling to co-parent better would be very helpful. I will keep that tucked into my mind for the future. Thank you

GTO, I appreciate the words of support. I am trying to do the best I can, but I know I can do better. Wife sent me a text saying that all she ever wanted, and still wants, is to show daughter of a happy loving couple. She says that we showed her a very ugly model of a loving marriage.....Perhaps that is why she is pursuing the relationship with OM so quickly. To make up for lost time and set and example for daughter????

New twist, and I have that same old feeling of despair.

Daughter asked me last night, while we were getting ready for bed, "Daddy can I tell you something". I said, sure sweetheart, you can always tell Dad anything. She hesitated and said "no", because I wouldn't like what she had to say. I told her she could always share anything with me, about anything and everything. She proceeded to tell me that "mommy is dating OM'. I didn't really know how to handle it, so I asked her what made her think that. She said the daughter of OM's friends told her. This is the 12yo. little girl who does a lot of babysitting for wife. I asked daughter how she felt about that. She said she didn't like it at all, not one bit. Without knowing what the best way to handle it, I decided to redirect the conversation onto something different.

I feel so bad for daughter. It is such a shame that a sweet little innocent girl has to deal with the feelings she is undoubtedly experiencing.

Our saga continues.......

Suckerpunch, while I don't have my kids at that age anymore, and I don't have to worry about OM affecting my sitch, I still feel sorry for you having to go through with this.
The only advise I can give, is to be positive with your daughter, and as much as you want to complain/whinge/bitch about the OM, don't do or say anything negative. That way it will never come back to you, nor will your daughter have to make hard decisions about who to believe at times.

Good advice, I think I am going to do just that. Like the rest of the journey, I cannot be part of wifes. She has to make her own decision and live her own life, and I will live mine. That won't stop the hurt for daughter, but it is all I can do. Like you said Hotwheels, whining and complaining isn't going to do me any good. I will just have to man up and keep my mouth shut.

I woke up in the middle of the night yet again, this time at 3:00am. I have been routinely waking up with thoughts of wife, almost every night for the past month. This came to me this morning, and it is now my new mantra,

"This may not be the life I wanted, but this is the life I have. I am going to live it"

SP... You life is going to evolve. It will not always be like it is now.

Whining and complaining is going to fall on deaf ears. Her ears are hearing the call of the siren beckoning her to the rocks of D. She can't hear anything else.

You, on the other hand, are the captain of your own ship. You now have new charts to navigate the stormy seas. Soon you will hit calm waters and it will be smoother sailing.

Just don't shoot albatross. It did nothing for the ancient mariner.

Got that Grand Funk song in your head, yet? "I'm your captain... yeah yeah yeah yeah..."

I know you will be cursing me later. LOL!

Has life dealt you some lousy cards? Play them well!

"What IS is more important than WHAT SHOULD BE. Too many people are looking at �what is� from a position of thinking �what should be��no matter what some people will say, barriers are not the experience of any one person, or any one group of persons. They are the universal experience." � Bruce Lee

-PM

About your D, why did you redirect? You could say something like "It seems like you're sad. Do you know why it makes you sad?" and just listen. You don't have to make it better, she just needs someone to listen. Listen and validate, just like you're learned with DB.

Quote:

It is such a shame that a sweet little innocent girl has to deal with the feelings she is undoubtedly experiencing.

I get your point but you don't really know how she's feeling, again you're mindreading. And that's a controlling act because it keeps it safe for you. You've decided you know what she's feeling so you don't have to get into it further. Communication shuts down.

This sounds really cliched but, you skate on the surface of your emotional life. I haven't been to EE but several people here, including 25, give it raves. Ever thought about doing something like that?

In the meantime...

Slow down, ask questions, be open. You might create a relationship with your D that's beyond your wildest hopes.

In the last week, I almost feel like I am entering a new level of detachment. I still have a ways to go, but I am moving farther and farther away from worrying about my past life, or wondering about what wife is up to. I am spending more time concentrating on my own life, and less time holding expectations for the future. Unfortunately, I am still waking up every day with dreams of wife or marriage or something to do with the past or present with her. I wish I could make that stop. I could really use the sleep...haha

My focus IS starting to change, and it feels good. It's been almost 9 months, and I am running at maybe 75%. I am praying that life continues to improve. Stay away, rollercoaster...STAY AWAY! I am almost able to breathe again!

Originally Posted By: labug

About your D, why did you redirect? You could say something like "It seems like you're sad. Do you know why it makes you sad?" and just listen. You don't have to make it better, she just needs someone to listen. Listen and validate, just like you're learned with DB.

That makes sense, and I will validate her emotions more in the future. I just wasn't sure how to handle it at the time. It was a pretty big gut punch for me to hear. In the moment, I was fearful of leading her into an emotion, if that makes sense? Like a typical parent, I just wanted her to STOP what she was feeling and be happy again. I know that isn't the way, but it is a strong feeling to overcome, especially when I was reeling in emotion myself.

Quote:

It is such a shame that a sweet little innocent girl has to deal with the feelings she is undoubtedly experiencing.

Originally Posted By: labug

I get your point but you don't really know how she's feeling, again you're mindreading. And that's a controlling act because it keeps it safe for you. You've decided you know what she's feeling so you don't have to get into it further. Communication shuts down.

I understand what you're saying, but that really wasn't the case. I DO KNOW she was feeling sad. The tears running down her cheeks, and her expressing what was making her feel that way, rang pretty loudly in my ears. I DO KNOW the loss of a stable home environment, with a Mom and Dad under one roof, is affecting her emotionally. She expressed that to me. I wasn't mind reading. Granted, I did not dig deeper into it, and I clearly should have. I just didn't want to, (or maybe I just couldn't), deal with the hurt at the time. Seeing the pain in her eyes and the hurt in her voice made me want to cheer her up. It came pretty unexpectedly, and I wasn't prepared for it. I will do better the next time she expresses anything to me, that is affecting her. I always view her as an innocent little 6 year old girl, my "baby", and I realize that is naive. I need to understand that she is developing her own emotions, thoughts and expectations in life. She is growing as a person. I need to validate her more, and I will. I need to listen to her more, and I will. Thank you, La. I needed to be reminded of that. :-)

Quote:

This sounds really cliched but, you skate on the surface of your emotional life. I haven't been to EE but several people here, including 25, give it raves. Ever thought about doing something like that?

In the meantime...

Slow down, ask questions, be open. You might create a relationship with your D that's beyond your wildest hopes.

I think you're right. I do skate on the surface. I have never dug deeper into my emotions because they have served me well enough over the years. Now, is the first time in my life that I am really struggling with them. With that said, I have not considered EE. I haven't been considering anything in regards to counseling, workshops or the like in quite some time. Maybe I should. I will do a little research into EE, and see if it is available in my area.

In the future, I WILL slow down, ask questions and do a better job validating my daughter. That is excellent advice, and something I will take very seriously!

I just googled EE. It looks very interesting. unfortunately, due to location, airfare, enrollment costs and time away from home, it isn't an option for me at this time.

Any other suggestions, perhaps in Washington State?

Quote:

I understand what you're saying, but that really wasn't the case. I DO KNOW she was feeling sad. The tears running down her cheeks, and her expressing what was making her feel that way, rang pretty loudly in my ears. I DO KNOW the loss of a stable home environment, with a Mom and Dad under one roof, is affecting her emotionally. She expressed that to me.

This wasn't in your original post, so thanks for the clarification. But asking can still open up a very different conversation.

Quote:

I have never dug deeper into my emotions because they have served me well enough over the years. Now, is the first time in my life that I am really struggling with them. With that said, I have not considered EE. I haven't been considering anything in regards to counseling, workshops or the like in quite some time. Maybe I should. I will do a little research into EE, and see if it is available in my area.

SP, you're getting a D. You've just talked about how terrible the is for your D, you wake up every night with thoughts of your W, you're struggling. If you re-read your early threads, you say that you were not emotionally there for W and you hurt her emotionally with your anger, suspicions, control, etc. So to say that your emotions have served you well over the years is suspect.

What priority to you put on changing you so that this doesn't happen again? Some people can come here and work through things without outside help but I would guess 75-80% of the people here have an IC.

When this topic comes up, you always have a reason why you can't, not enough money, too busy with work. Really? I'm not saying you should go in debt to go to EE but there are alternatives.

I struggled for years with depression but thought I was doing OK, keeping is hidden, trying to self-help and muscle my way out of the woods. I was only kidding myself. I damaged all the important relationships in my life. I'm slowing repairing that but it's painful to know that you hurt those you love because of ego and pride.

When my marriage came crashing down around my ears, I knew the jig was up. I had to pay the piper, in more ways than one.

My life is so much better now, my Rs going forward will be different and better. Not without trials but strong Rs with healthy people can withstand trials.

So what's your hurdle? What's holding you back?

I may have blinders on, but I don't think there is much holding me back anymore. I have looked my issues in the face, and I am working on them everyday. I am not perfect. I am not healed. I am not headed towards being the worlds most well adjusted man, but I actually LIKE who I am becoming. It is taking work. It is going slow, but I feel today that I have a better handle on my anger, my pride and my emotions in general. I have definitely grown as a person, at least I feel that I have. I KNOW that I would not treat my marriage today, the way I had in the past. I realize better now, how my words and actions affect the people around me. I understand a lot more about myself. I realize a lot of things about the way I deal with certain emotions, such as hurt and the way I turn it into anger as a defense mechanism. I understand better, the importance of expressing love in a healthy way, not holding back or keeping score due to pride or ego. I understand the importance of communicating, but more importantly, listening. When I look back, I see that I never actually LISTENED to what my wife had been telling me, and I definitely never validated her feelings or emotions. I learned from those mistakes. I truly get that now. I truly have a better understanding of myself and how I relate to people I love. I am a work in progress, but I am improving. It will be a slow road, and not one that I plan on giving up on.

Dealing with the past hurt and mistakes I made along the way is something I will get over, but it is going to follow me for quite some time. I may never fully get rid of it. I have accepted that. I very well may return to IC in the future. I was with my wife for 12 years. She was my only true love and only long term relationship I have had. Losing that, for whatever reason, is going to be a hurdle that will be tough to get over. Knowing that I played a big role in the demise of the marriage, as well as changing the direction and outcome of my daughters life is something that I will have to deal with. It will be tough...plain and simple. It's TOUGH!

Originally Posted By: suckerpunch

I may have blinders on, but I don't think there is much holding me back anymore. I have looked my issues in the face, and I am working on them everyday. I am not perfect. I am not healed. I am not headed towards being the worlds most well adjusted man, but I actually LIKE who I am becoming. It is taking work. It is going slow, but I feel today that I have a better handle on my anger, my pride and my emotions in general. I have definitely grown as a person, at least I feel that I have. I KNOW that I would not treat my marriage today, the way I had in the past. I realize better now, how my words and actions affect the people around me. I understand a lot more about myself. I realize a lot of things about the way I deal with certain emotions, such as hurt and the way I turn it into anger as a defense mechanism. I understand better, the importance of expressing love in a healthy way, not holding back or keeping score due to pride or ego. I understand the importance of communicating, but more importantly, listening. When I look back, I see that I never actually LISTENED to what my wife had been telling me, and I definitely never validated her feelings or emotions. I learned from those mistakes. I truly get that now. I truly have a better understanding of myself and how I relate to people I love. I am a work in progress, but I am improving. It will be a slow road, and not one that I plan on giving up on.

Dealing with the past hurt and mistakes I made along the way is something I will get over, but it is going to follow me for quite some time. I may never fully get rid of it. I have accepted that. I very well may return to IC in the future. I was with my wife for 12 years. She was my only true love and only long term relationship I have had. Losing that, for whatever reason, is going to be a hurdle that will be tough to get over. Knowing that I played a big role in the demise of the marriage, as well as changing the direction and outcome of my daughters life is something that I will have to deal with. It will be tough...plain and simple. It's TOUGH!

You show so much wisdom. Though this is a very hard thing to go through, it's good to be in the number of people who have chosen to use this hard time as a time of understanding and growth. So many unfortunately don't.

My H was my first relationship (long or short lol), so I definitely can relate to you there.
All the best to you as you continue your journey.

Hi, SP,

Just finished catching up on your thread. Good to hear you are feeling better and more confident about the person you are becoming! Personal growth is what this is all about--becoming a new, improved you moving forward. Accepting our mistakes and dealing with our contributions to the breakdown of our marriages.

ruby says it so well in that really the LBS's are the ones that ultimately have the power and when you feel that power shift--that you are the one in control, no the WAS then you know you have arrived.

No, you didn't choose for your family to break. But, you cannot control your W or her decisions. And, the past is the past. Choose to move forward in a positive direction. Take the high road where OM is concerned. Talk to your daughter and validate her feelings, as I know you already do.

My friend, I think you and I have arrived to a new part of the path that is our journey. Welcome to the new road...it's still bumpy but the view is a whole lot better!

I like the new road, GTO. I am glad you're traveling it with me! We can help each other watch out for potholes along the way

life will continue to improve!

Hey, SP, I think you've grown as a person too. I was just suggesting ways that might help you get to the roots of those issues you mentioned and remove them.

Sometimes it's good to have a coach to keep us on the right track.

Originally Posted By: labug

Hey, SP, I think you've grown as a person too. I was just suggesting ways that might help you get to the roots of those issues you mentioned and remove them.

Sometimes it's good to have a coach to keep us on the right track.

Very good point, La. I haven't thought I needed to get to the root of my issues, and to be honest, I think I know where most of them came from. My entire family has the very same issues. I think I am a victim of monkey see, monkey do. My issues were learned traits, as I grew and developed as a kid in my household. With that said, in my mind; I figured I could just acknowledge that I have these issues and work on improving them, more or less solution based. I was seeing it as, "here is a problem, lets work on a solution". Do you honestly think I need to dig to the root of the cause? It is just something I haven't thought needed attention. I honestly assumed that recognizing the issue and wanting to work on them was 99% of the battle.

"Wanting" and "doing" are two separate things.

For me, I saw I had an anger issue. It was something that I lived with for a long time. I dug deep and found the cause of the issue. I sought out help to get to a remedy of the problem. I found out that a lot of what ailed me was not something I was going to fix on my own.

It seemed weak to have to ask for help. I was self-sufficient for so long. I came to find out that there is no shame in it. We may be able to see the transmission in our vehicle is broken but few of us are actually able to fix it ourselves.

Just thinking...

Originally Posted By: MrCAS

"Wanting" and "doing" are two separate things.

For me, I saw I had an anger issue. It was something that I lived with for a long time. I dug deep and found the cause of the issue. I sought out help to get to a remedy of the problem. I found out that a lot of what ailed me was not something I was going to fix on my own.

Can you elaborate on this a little? How did you come to the conclusion that you needed help?

I am wondering if my anger issues are similar to yours, and whether or not mine are ones in which I can work through myself. I feel that they are. Today, right now...and yesterday...I feel like I have a pretty good handle on my anger. Perhaps I am being na�ve or stubborn. I don't know.

I can "want" to mow the lawn but I have to "do" to get it mowed... I can "want" to get a job but I have to "do" the work to make it happen. Nothing we all "want" does not get done without "doing". Results only comes before work in the dictionary... not in real life.

I came to that conclusion because it would not go away. As much as I tried to work it, recognize it, validate it, etc it would not go away. It was paralyzing me.

I counseled with my church pastor and he set me up with a psychologist that was a member of the church. I didn't have the money to pay for his help so I mowed his lawn. We would sometimes meet for coffee at Waffle House. The man gave me the helping hand I had to have. He pulled me out of the hole I was in.

It was an interesting view from that hole. I could see the light and the way out but I still couldn't get out of it. It

The abuse I went through at the hands of my father, the sexual abuse from the youth group adviser, issues stemming from divesting of my business interests with my former business partner, and the dealings of stuff relating to my marriage and unemployment all played a part in one form or another.

Before moving here, I used to smoke a lot of pot. This is what kept my issues at bay for a long time. It placated them and smoothed over those sharp edges. it numbed me to the pain and anger I was feeling.

Without that crutch, they started coming back. The erosion of my marriage was a result of this stuff.

Stubborn? Naive? Maybe. I can't answer that. I know I was being foolish thinking I was going to work through this stuff myself. Professional help is not an admission of weakness. It does not make you any less of a man. We are all human, brother.

"No man is an island." I now really understand what the meaning behind that saying is. I couldn't do everything all by myself. I wanted out of that hole. I wanted the feelings to go away. So I did what i needed to do.

What we have learned from others, we can unlearn. We have the capability of learning new habits, as well.

I also know where my problem came from but needed the help of someone committed to keeping me on track and helping me face things in order to succeed.

Quote:

I was seeing it as, "here is a problem, lets work on a solution". Do you honestly think I need to dig to the root of the cause? It is just something I haven't thought needed attention. I honestly assumed that recognizing the issue and wanting to work on them was 99% of the battle.

I don't know what you need to do, but I know from what you say that you want to be happy and have good relationships. That takes work and lots of it.

What are you doing in terms of SBT now? Do you understand the triggers for your anger?

Identifying triggers is important. It seems to be the key to growth. For me anyways.

Very good point!

I believe I do know my triggers. I also feel I have been pretty effective in realizing when and how to control them. Now, I am not trying to portray that I don't get angry. Of course I do. However, I am no longer acting on that emotion like I once was. I am much, much better at redirecting my feelings and acknowledging that I am turning my hurt into anger, in most situations. Simply knowing that aspect has given me a lot more power over the emotion.

That's great stuff, SP. You really have done a lot of work.

Thank you, La.

A few things that have been happening with me:

I am getting better at setting my boundaries. Wife called yesterday and asked for a favor. She asked if I would be able to drop daughter off, after our visit, to a racetrack about 30 minutes away. She has become really involved with OM and his circle of friends. They spend a TON of time at the motocross track. Wife went on to express that she has been doing so much running around that gas prices in her SUV were killing her. I simply replied, "I don't have any plans to go into town tonight. If anything changes I will let you know ASAP. For the time being, you should plan on picking up daughter at your apartment as usual". I left it at that, which I know made her angry. Regardless, I was polite, direct and set my boundary. The END.

I have also been on a date....I will brace for any 2x4's, but just to be clear it was only a casual dinner and a movie, no kiss at the end, no innuendos, purely above the boards. I have been talking with this girl for a couple weeks. She is someone I knew briefly years ago. While I do enjoy her company, I am struggling with the idea of getting out and socializing with the opposite sex. Without a doubt, it definitely does wonders for the ego and self esteem, but I want to make sure I am ready before even remotely considering romantically dating. For now, it is just for mutual friendship. On that note, a friend is trying to set me up with yet ANOTHER woman. I exchanged some texts with her yesterday, after she initiated. I will be honest, I feel like I have options again. Life isn't over yet! Girls still dig me....haha It's been an exciting week, but I am treading VERY, Very lightly. I am not prepared to lose focus of my self growth and end up in a dead end relationship that I should have never started. I am keeping my head in the game, and not getting wrapped up in emotion. Life is moving forward, perhaps not quickly, but it's moving!

So, I think I am reaching the summit in regards to controlling my anger....haha

Wife has daughter call me this morning, asking to drop off the tent. They are going camping for the weekend. Daughter explains that she and a friend will be sleeping in the tent and "mom and OM" will stay in the motorhome...okay, fine. Let that go, SP....which I did. I just let it run off my back like a duck sheds water. Good move forward with my emotions.

Then, wife and daughter show up at the business later in the afternoon, which is fine. However, wife has OM's mother in tow. This woman she now calls "mom". Wife proceeds to take "mom" for a leisurely walk through the resort. IMO, that takes some pretty big balls on wifes behalf. At first, I felt my temperature flare, but then I reminded myself. "that's just hurt talking. Let it go". Granted, I still think this was disrespectful of wife to pull, and it lacks any form of class, but I again just let it go. I took a little drive into town to do an errand. I figured that way, I would not have to encounter them walking around my property while I was working. All in all, I feel that I made a HUGE leap forward in controlling my temper today....On to better things! Today feels like a real WIN!

HI, SP,
GOod for you controlling your own destiny/emotions today. I do think that was rough of your W to bring OM"s mom to your business-very insensitive of her.

Regarding your date/ dating in general...I think each of us has to decide for ourselves when we are ready and what we are ready for. I think it was GREAT you went on this date and kept it very casual.

And, why not go on date w another interested woman you are texting??? Dating/Receiving positive attention from the opposite sex is a real ego-booster!

And, you are absolutely right..you and I are in VERY similar places. I will be interested in hearing how you proceed forward. I think you have the right idea...me-not so sure! Time will tell!

The anger management discussion on this thread are interesting, as that's my biggest issue. My IC seems to really want to dig thru my childhood, but I don't think there's any great breakthrough to be had there. The nature VS nurture debate isn't going to be resolved based on my case, but my dad has a quick temper, and his dad was an alcoholic, and probably physically abusive. I'm more interested in behavor modification and delaying the anger reaction and getting it under control, proportionate and appropriate to the situation. Like quitting smoking, or losing weight and keeping it off, I realize that his is going to have to be a long-term, permanent effort, not a short term fix.

Good luck to all of us!

Deep seated anger issues have a root cause. It is like a smoldering fire just waiting to erupt. That is what allows our anger to swell from what should be a "3" on the anger scale to a "7". Real quick too.

Without getting to the cause, we are all just spinning our wheels.

Too freudian for me. The root cause is I'm wired that way, or I learned it, because I act just like my dad. No hidden trauma in my youth. It will take constant, vigilant effort to catch those explosive overreactions. You're right about how quick they happen. Don't know if you also have depression, but I find that the old addage that bad thoughts attract other bad thoughts to be true. Breaking that cycle is important. I've ruined perfectly good moods just by letting one nagging thought start a whole chain until I'm down.

I'm finding mindfulness (meditation) to be more useful than therapy or medication, but I'm pursuing several avenues.

Good thoughts, Mile High. I too find mindfulness to be extremely helpful and has changed my life in ways I could never have imagined and so has therapy.

Doing what works is the key and that may look different for different people.

It all takes conscious action.

I guess we all just have to do what works best for ourselves.

And my advice is probably more Jungian than Freudian but who's counting?

Back to SP.

Not me. :-)

Today, I get my daughter back for my week....GAL and taking my angel to the state fair! Tomorrow, going to a concert with friends and taking a date!....Actually got a full night sleep last night, for the first time in a long time. Life seems okay, today. There is noooo fricken way I am riding any rollercoasters at the fair, though. I am not willing to take any chances

Well, trials and tribulations #306

I went to a concert with 6 of my close friends. I decided to take cute D-mom as a date....a casual date. We get in, get seated and guess who just happens to be sitting about 5 rows in front of us? yep, WIFE and OM!.....What a way to put a damper on an otherwise nice evening. What are the chances? I made the best of it, but I am sure it made everyone else feel a little uncomfortable. Wife even waited after the concert, at the bottom of the stands, to speak with some of our friends. I decided that I could A) walk up and strangle the life out of OM....or B) walk right by like they didn't even exist....I chose B!

Awkward! LOL!

"B" is for BRAVO!

While wife was talking to one of our friends, she saw my date and I walking down the steps. She said, "this is going to be awkward"...and I walked right on by....haha

Murphy's Law in action!! Geesh, what are the chances? That's crazy!

So much for awkward, eh?

Why create issues when they can be avoided?

At this point in the game, I am simply going to avoid her at all costs.....It makes me sad, but it is going to save me! I plan to go well beyond dark.

Yes, it is sad.

I know how it made me feel to have chosen that route for myself but my sanity and well being are worth far beyond what my W's feeling are to me.

It is nice to be seen, though, right?

Makes me wonder who it going to be awkward for, though... you or her?

Actually, NO! I would much rather not have seen her, or to have her see me. My night would have been more enjoyable without her presence.

In regards to who it would be more awkward for, I won't even give that any time to consider. I have completely given up on making rhyme or reason about wife. She has become a complete stranger to me....I don't get it, and I probably never will. I will still choose to better myself, work harder on ALL of my relationship and continue my personal growth. However, my DBing days, at the least in terms of trying to save my marriage, are all over. I am throwing in the towel.

I stopped DBing after a filed for divorce. I figured that if I have given up on the marriage, then whats the point. But, I noticed lately that I am getting angrier at my W.

I am thinking of going back to to doing some of the things I was doing when I was DBing. Those include limiting contact, forcing a better PMA, GALing, etc...

People on here are constantly saying that you DB for yourself, not to reconcile your marriage. They just may be right.

Oh, I get you there big buck... I just forgot to put on the little winky face. Eeeps. Sorry. Was meant as a rhetorical question...

Hey, if W had to see you at least you were with a date... LOL!

I agree that continuing to DB is a good thing. I was amazed at how using many of the techniques in DB affect the rest of my life in a very positive way.

SP,

Sorry about the awkward situation on your date... how did your date handle this? Will you go out with her again?

Thinking about you and our parallel situations... although mine has suddenly shifted..come see me and give me your input, please!

Hang in there, my friend!