I don't know what happened to my last thread, but here I go again.
Here are the deets:
Following the birth of our S, we started to have issues. We have a business together and traveled a lot for work (work in entertainment industry). After S was born, I stayed home. Naturally over time, because of the distance and the challenges I experienced as a new mom, we grew apart. We argued a lot, I believe it may have been a bit of post-partum for me and due to his stress on the road. There had been numerous EA while married and a few PA since separated. We separated in Nov two days prior to the birth of D. At present, H is living the life, enjoying all the perks that fame has to offer. Despite, this, God has given me to capacity to forgive his past transgressions and revealed my share of issues. I'm on a mission to win my husband back, inch by inch!
He has relocated for work, it's a huge career advancing opportunity. I'm on the fence about flying with the kids to visit and the frequency of these visits. Per our last conversation, he wants to "move on" but we'll see how things go when he returns. He will come back home in July. I need all the help I can get to get my act together, get my mojo back, and make sure he moves back home and be the man of integrity I once knew.
Can it be done? With our limited phone and text interaction about work and kids?
Hi JPnL.... welcome, I am newbie too & just wanted to empathize with you as, I too own a business together with my h... and wonder how to detach & go "dim" while still managing our responsibilities... Your business transactions seem different than mine however, as you do not seem to require daily calls/messages that keep me believing and in hope. Sometimes I am greatful for the silly messages, as something are better than nothing. And yet, at other times... i just wish he would go away, along with all the hurt/rejection I feel.
I hope one of the moderators or other members answer you soon. I have been waiting several days. I am learning "patience".
Take care,
waitingformagic
Hi WFM, thus far I've tried to make our interactions as smooth and positive as possible--acting "as if". Also, I do try to keep it short and sweet. It's been working to my benefit as I'm seeing that he has been more interested, engaging in more personal conversations.
I've officially been DB for 2 weeks and I'm slowly but surely seeing changes in the right direction. Because of my faith, I feel like I have an edge in understanding what the DR is telling me to do--I have to experience a "renewing of the mind" and be consistent.
On Saturday, H visited the kids and had the audacity to have the OW drop him off and pick him up at MY house. He claims she is just a friend but I know that is not the truth. The old JPnL would be outraged and confronted him, but this was the time to shine and act "as if" I had no clue and be pleasant, upbeat, and funny. During the visit, I was tending to my things around the house while he played with the kids in the playroom. Every so often, he would come and linger in the kitchen striking up conversation. I saw glimpses of the old H, such a contrast to the man that was so cold and distant the last time I saw him. After he left, I texted him and thanked him for hanging with the kids. Our exchanges were funny and upbeat!
GAL, detaching and finding inspiration has really given me the confidence I need to be the real JPnL...the attractive, independent, beautiful woman I am. I also see the physical distance working to my advantage because I truly can detach and be my own person. I hope I can keep it up!
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
GAL, detaching and finding inspiration has really given me the confidence I need to be the real JPnL...the attractive, independent, beautiful woman I am. I also see the physical distance working to my advantage because I truly can detach and be my own person. I hope I can keep it up!
Sounds like you are doing really good. Keep it up! What are your goals for you? What do you want to work on?
Are you GAL? This is really important!
What were the problems in the M? You mentioned the travel and distance, but what were the arguments about?
We separated in Nov two days prior to the birth of D.
WOW!! So sorry to hear that, I really don't understand how any husband could leave around the time a baby is being born when the woman needs as much help and support as possible. Seems like an incredibly selfish thing to do.
Can it be done? With our limited phone and text interaction about work and kids?
It's definitely a challenge when distance is involved, but stick with DB'ing principals and there may be a chance.
Hi WFM, thus far I've tried to make our interactions as smooth and positive as possible--acting "as if". Also, I do try to keep it short and sweet. It's been working to my benefit as I'm seeing that he has been more interested, engaging in more personal conversations.
Good, just keep it up! Don't be rude or cold, but do act like you're preoccupied. Don't always answer when he calls. Don't always respond right away when he texts or emails.
The old JPnL would be outraged and confronted him, but this was the time to shine and act "as if" I had no clue and be pleasant, upbeat, and funny.
That's great, but the point isn't to act like you don't have a clue, it is to act like you know EXACTLY what is going on but you're not letting it get to you because you're moving on with or without him.
After he left, I texted him and thanked him for hanging with the kids. Our exchanges were funny and upbeat!
Great! Now keep that up, don't backslide by asking about the M! Keep ALL talk with him light and fluffy!
GAL, detaching and finding inspiration has really given me the confidence I need to be the real JPnL...the attractive, independent, beautiful woman I am. I also see the physical distance working to my advantage because I truly can detach and be my own person. I hope I can keep it up!
Excellent, sounds like you're doing quite well, good job!
Goals:
1) Enjoy my 2 young children and be the best possible mommy I can be.
2) Spend more time loving my family and friends.
3) Find balance between being a single mom, PT business owner, and possibly student--get organized with schedules.
4) Get more plugged in with my church and discover who God created me to be.
5) Continue working out 2-3 times a week.
6) Decorate my home--H bought us our dream home 2 weeks prior to separation.
M problems:
1) I think like most marriages, I felt unappreciated and he felt overwhelmed. He traveled and worked A LOT, while I handled all of the parenting, home and business responsibilities. I would express my frustrations with our lop-sided situation and he would receive it as I'm being unsupportive of his career. We weren't hearing each others needs or meeting them.
2) He handled the frustrations by seeking validation and attention outside of our marriage. In each instance when I learned of the EAs, I never truly forgave since trust wasn't being rebuilt--there was no transparency or change in behavior. I was riddled with suspicion and anger, arguing more and more with him.
3) In the past year, I observed changes in his peers. Our friends used to be married couples, w/ kids, mostly Christian. He started to spend more time with single men that had completely different responsibilities and beliefs.
4) Without sharing too much info, H was on a televised talent competition this past year. Following it, the fame he received changed the once grounded man I knew. His priorities shifted away from God and work.
The old JPnL would be outraged and confronted him, but this was the time to shine and act "as if" I had no clue and be pleasant, upbeat, and funny.
That's great, but the point isn't to act like you don't have a clue, it is to act like you know EXACTLY what is going on but you're not letting it get to you because you're moving on with or without him.
Just out of curiosity, do some DB-ers get to a point where they actually move on and no longer want the marriage?
Journaling:
H and I have had little contact since he returned to work, mostly about work and once about the kids. It makes me so sad that his busy schedule and this "fog" has caused him to miss so much of the kids growing up. He rarely asks about them.
When I first approached this 5 month time apart, it made me ache to my stomach but I see more and more that it's really helping me detach. Maybe too well. The thought of H with the OW used to stab me in the heart. Thinking about it today, it's like thinking about a friend who is destroying their life with terrible choices. SMH
Speaking of the OW, I've learned of 2 since we separated. One was brief, the other is on-going. H doesn't know that I know details. H told me that he would tell me if he started seeing someone but has yet to disclose anything. Why? Is it not that serious? Does he know that what he is doing is wrong and still can't bear to be honest with me? Does he fear hurting me? Or, is he trying to keep the door at home open? Too many questions I won't get answers to...at least not now. All I know now is that I can only control the way I respond to him if/when he tells me, which will be somewhere along the lines of, "I appreciate your honesty. Thank you for telling me."
I'm finally getting a grasp of being a single mom, which was a huge subject of argument for H and I. I was overwhelmed with all the responsibilities I was juggling. Now, I just have to jump right in and not get so frustrated. I can choose my reaction and behavior toward the sitch. I don't have any support from family, I'm flying solo raising these kids. But I can do it. With the grace of God I can and have to.
Interesting turn of events, H called me last two nights in a row. Monday he phoned at 11:30pm, well after work ended around 9pm. I didn't answer and he didn't leave a message. Last night he called at 9:30pm leaving a message to the effect of "Hi, just wanted to see how you're doing. Its been a while since we talked..." I didn't answer for two reasons 1) It's late and the kids are in bed and 2) It's time to not be so available to H, I have a life too. First thing this morning he texted to see how I was, mentioned something about calling last night and not hearing back, and lastly asking why I unfriended him on FB, wondering if I as mad at him. Hmm. Wow, this is a different. I was pleasant with H, keeping the replies short, apologizing for not getting back to him sooner, explaining I was busy. About FB, I simply said that I thought I was doing us both a favor based on our last R conversation. I assured him we didn't need to be FB friends to be friends with a ":-)" at the end. He responded with relief and says he wanted to share about work. H also asked to speak with S2 this evening. After considering this carefully, I responded enthusiastically that S2 would love to speak with him, but we will try. H pleaded that I "make time" and I suggested he phone us at the said time. Moments later he texts back "Yes!!!". Is this my old H, not the shell that would show it's face around my house for the past 3 months? We shall see.
The exchange reminds me of a book I read while in college "The Rules about Dating". I remember playing hard to get and training the guy to see that my time was valuable--eventually they would get the hint and purse. That's exactly how I hooked H because I knew he was "the one". DB is "The Rules" 2.0 but in much more meaningful way because it's not just strategy, but I true change in behavior and thinking. I already feel like more a dignified and respectable woman for it.
Today I learned that one of the OW works at the gym I train at. :-/
I'm just so confused and hurt. This is not the man I once knew. He once was a good man, a man of positive influence and high moral character.
I'm expecting a call from H sometime today. He texted and said that he wants to share something that is on his heart, something he feels I deserve to know. In case he comes cleans about the OW whom he has been dating for about 2 months and is in love with (found love letter), how should I respond? If he says something about filing for D, what would be a good response?
I'm expecting a call from H sometime today. He texted and said that he wants to share something that is on his heart, something he feels I deserve to know. In case he comes cleans about the OW whom he has been dating for about 2 months and is in love with (found love letter), how should I respond? If he says something about filing for D, what would be a good response?
I would stay calm (break down later if you need to, scream and yell at your pillow). Listen and empathize, you do not have to respond to anything immediately. You can let him know you do not want to respond right now you want to think about it first. Come here and post what is said before reacting.
DB is "The Rules" 2.0 but in much more meaningful way because it's not just strategy, but I true change in behavior and thinking. I already feel like more a dignified and respectable woman for it.
OK, so you're feeling dignified, respectable and detached, that's great!!
Today I learned that one of the OW works at the gym I train at. :-/
I'm just so confused and hurt. This is not the man I once knew. He once was a good man, a man of positive influence and high moral character.
Oops! OK, not so detached after all
How is is that knowing OW works at the same gym has made you question your H's integrity? Is it because knowing she works there has now made her more "real"? Regarding H's integrity, it's very likely he's not who you thought he was. All of us are sinners, some sins are small and some are great but we all do wrongs. Some of us can put up amazing facades that feign high moral character, but behind that facade is just another sinner. I'm not trying to justify his affairs, I'm just saying you may have had a false perception of who he was and now you see him for who he really is. The question you have to ask yourself is can you love and remain married to the flawed person he really is.
AS, you're right. I did/do have a false perception of my H. My H's career was built on family and our faith, in fact he is well known in the Christian community for his "unique" talent. In hindsight, I see that I too believed he was perfect and became self-righteous when he fell short. I CAN love and remain married to someone that is flawed and that my expecting perfection is so false and also I can't behave as a junior Holy Spirt. I see now that I expected way too much from my H and grew bitter and unforgiving anytime he fell short of what I believed a good Christian H should look and behave like, ie "a good H would come home from work at a decent hour not 10pm, a good H would call his W to let her know he is running late, a good H would not need to be partying at bars until 2 or 4am." You get the picture. I'm not suggesting that I should tolerate all of my H's behavior, however the way I responded to it was not appropriate. I fought, argued, nagged and wore him down with guilt--I can see why he was looking for an escape from that contentiousness.
subguy, so far I haven't heard from H. I've thought this over and considered the following responses:
To admission of OW:
"Are you happy? I just want what's best for you."
If D is brought up:
"I'm disappointed to hear but I do share partial responsibility for the failure of our marriage. I trust you will do what's right. Regardless, I'm here for you."
I need to listen to H, empathize and stick to script repeating it over and over.
To admission of OW:
"Are you happy? I just want what's best for you."
Why ask that, he's not happy he's faking it? Can you think of a response that validates but does not sound condescending?
Acknowledging the other woman without blowing up is probably enough for the first admission(not accepting just acknowledging). Are you going to set any boundaries about other woman and if so are you going to bring them up? What are your boundaries going to be?
If D is brought up:
"I'm disappointed to hear but I do share partial responsibility for the failure of our marriage. I trust you will do what's right. Regardless, I'm here for you."
Again that sounds condescending, just acknowledge his feelings. He is hurting and realize he is in a crisis. It sure makes it easier to deal with them. When I look at it like a crisis it makes me to no want to chicken choke her lol. jkjk!!
I think AS uses the squirrel analogy. When trying to feed a scared squirrel do you ran at them throwing food or do you sit patiently waiting for them to come to you? It's tough work, you'll need a lot of conviction and backbone but you can do this.
Spoke with H last night. Conversation began light as we discussed my upcoming birthday plans and Easter. He expressed that he wished he could be here.
Then he changed gears and shared that he wanted to be honest about something. He admitted to dating when we initially separated and that he has been "talking" to someone for about a month--in reality, he has been seeing OW for 2 months (my H is a celebrity and I've seen pics online to prove it and I've read a love letter from her when the kids and I last visited him). I thanked him for his honesty and acknowledged that it's not easy sharing this kind of news. One issue my H has with me, is that I often dismiss him when it comes to discussing challenging things, I basically do not give him a safe place to be heard or accepted. No wonder he ran looking for validation with other women, and there were plenty available because of his line of work. Throughout the call I listened and empathized with him.
Another issue H has with me, is that I often react in an unreasonable retaliatory way to things that he does that hurt me. For example, I turned off his credit cards once when he was traveling when I found out about an EA. Did I have a right to be angry, absolutely. But, I should have handled my reaction in a better way. H shared that he was concerned I would withhold the kids from him after learning this news. I empathized with him and explained that it wouldn't affect him visiting the kids.
All in all, the call ended well and I can sense he was relieved and taken back by my calm and pleasant reaction.
Today, H texts the following and I have yet to respond:
"I just wanted to thank you for listening to me last night. I know it wasn't really something you wanted to hear and it was really hard to share...But I feel like the more honest I can be with you, the better we can be. I still don't know what the future holds but I really appreciate you."
I have yet to respond because I don't want to appear too eager because "I've let go" and I haven't found the right words. Thoughts anyone...
Just respond.
"You're welcome. I understand why you're doing what you're doing and that you have feelings for this other person. I just hope that one day you'll have those feelings for me again."
And end it. Then don't pursue or make it seem like you're "waiting" for him.
Hi, I've been DB-ing successfully for a few weeks and seeing improved communication between H and I. I learned earlier this week that he is going on vacation with OW next month. Today, he invited the kids and I on vacation to Disney World in June. My family is of the opinion this is a bad idea, in their words "how can he miss you if you're available whenever he wants". Thoughts anyone?
Just a reminder of our sitch, H lives in another state for work at the time and does not see myself or kids often, about twice a month.
Bump. Advice please.
I'm conflicted. This invitation seems like a step in the right direction. My concerns:
1) I don't want to be treated like a nanny or get stuck in the friendly co-parent zone.
2) Will absence make the heart grow fonder?
3) He hasn't seen much of me to see my 180s. This may be a good opportunity.
4) Is he cake-eating having the OW and me?
5) Who cares about all of the above, its a vacation for our kids.
It seems your H has had more than 2 EAs and now a PA. Am I understanding that correctly?
Your H doesn't do this ^ because of you. This is his problem.
When you picture the trip to Disney, what does it look like for you? Will all the child care be done by you? Your kids are tiny, Disney won't make much of an impression on them.
You have worth. Has your H talked at all about giving up his PA? Do you want to share your H? I'm not saying do anything drastic but rather think about what a good marriage looks like to you. People who are serial cheaters, don't easily change their behavior. Is he making any steps to do that?
Maybe you need to become the WAW in your mind.
Have you read Tallula's threads?
Hi Labug. Thanks for chiming in. I see a lot of the childcare being shared jointly. H and I spoke briefly this morning and we both agreed that Disney may be a bit much for our young ones, we will look into Maui or a cruise instead.
There has been little discussion about his PA since he first admitted it. A few weeks ago H was in town for a show (he is a performance painter). He invited me to it but also shared that OW would be there. One of the paintings he dedicated to love and painted a picture of a couple kissing, and he performed it to our wedding song. The following day he called to thank me for coming, said it meant a lot and commented on our song.
What do you mean by becoming the WAW in my mind? What does this look like? I think I may have been this for 1.5 years prior to my H leaving but quickly saw my share of issues that contributed to our problems. Now I'm the one standing.
I'll look into Tallula's threads.
I read somewhere on here that if here is a an OP, it's best to go dark. Can someone please explain the reasoning for this? I have been doing so, and find that it simply ticks off my H.
My sitch was slow moving being that my H and I lived in different states. Our communication was limited to emails about work and a few text messages a week about the kids. I've been GAL and detaching.
My H is in town now and has observed me GAL. Last night, he invited himself over to have some drinks. We caught up, laughed and talked about our upcoming trip. Towards the end of our time, he made some comments about how he feels like he is getting to know a whole new person. He said he observed that I've been going out a lot and the kids are often being watched by someone. He said that he doesn't remember me being so out-going and adventurous (180). I simply responded and told him that he doesn't remember me being fun. I realize now that I should have simply validated him and thanked him for the compliment.
Today he texted with the following:
Can I ask you a simple honest question? I noticed you don't have your ring on. Have you moved on? I ask you over text because I have a feeling I can't have these kind of conversations with you in person. You either are not comfortable enough, or you just want me to know you are all good. Either way all I want to give you or anyone else is honesty. I've always been honest with you whether I was comfortable or happy or not with my decision.
I don't know how to respond. Advice please.
I am considering this as a response:
I'm sorry I've made you feel that way. I can have honest conversations with you. I haven't moved on and I am not happy with my situation but I have a new found respect for myself and because of that, I am happy and slowly moving forward. That's all I can say for now.
Whaaaaaat.
I would say-- that you care for him and love him, but are getting to know who you are without him.
Unless he's not wearing his ring... In which case I would ignore i because you shouldn't feed the drama llama.
MrBond, that was my initial feeling...no response. How should I respond if he brings this up in person?
Just tell him that you haven't given it much thought and that you're moving forward. Then walk off. You don't owe him any explanations. Keeping it short and sweet will speak volumes.
I like that Mr Bond. I'm not going to respond to his text. If he brings it up this evening when he drops off the kids, I will respond with your comment. It's perfect.
As my nickname suggests, I am trying to do a 180 but it is hard when H wants me to get in touch with him all the time. He always comes up with some excuse why I've got to ring him. Either it's about some post that has arrived at our house for him or something my son has done like an exam. I didn't phone him tonight like he asked me too, he is also going to the solicitor's next month to file for D so not talking to him is easy for me. I don't know whether or not he wants to talk to me because he still wants us to be good friends or that he's starting to wonder why I'm suddenly not talking to him as much. I know I should ring him about his son or letters, but I really want him to realise that I'm not going to be at his beck and call anymore!
We just got back from our family vacation. Immediately after H dropped us off he texted to ask if we could talk. We spoke over the phone and here are some of the things we discussed:
H: Why did you book this trip?
JPL: We both agreed we wanted to take a family trip with the kids.
H: Someone told me you shared a picture from our trip with the caption "Loving every minute of our family vacation". Why would you say that and put it online yet you block me on all social media and don't share details about your life with me? You reject me, yet say you're loving every minute?
Jpl: I did share a family picture. I did love every minute because I'm with my kids. What's not to love about that and being in Maui? I can understand how this would upset you because this is what I experience everyday. Ppl call, text and message me daily about the pictures you share of your girlfriend. Do your declarations of love for her hurt?...yes, but I can't change the way you feel.
Truthfully, I had to block him because seeing his posts in my feed killed me. Because he is a celebrity, he posts a lot.
H: I'm letting you know that I'm moving back to Sacramento and I signed a 1 year lease. I did that after we had drinks a few weeks ago. I just realized we can't have an honest conversation anymore. At first, I was trying to see how things would go between us and see how things go over time. I signed the lease because the house doesn't feel like home. You act like you're all good--like you're happy and you don't even need me.
JPL: OK. I have been honest with you. I'm moving forward, whatever that looks like. I'm choosing to be happy in any circumstance. I don't know if you expected me to be sad, pleasing or begging but I doubt anyone would find that to be attractive nor want to come home to that. I'm just choosing be happy, loving my kids, being a good person and making good choices.
H: I just want to be close to the kids and help with them more. Before I signed the lease, I was hoping to see if we could work things out over time.
JPL: I'm sorry you don't feel that way now but there is no way we could work on us when you're in love with someone else. I'm not saying that I'm not open to something in the future but there is no way we can work on us while you're in another relationship. This is your home but I can't change the way you feel about it--I have no say about where you lay your head, who you spend your time with or who you love. Those are your choices.
I ended the conversation with "I really hope you're happy and you find what you're looking for."
H sits on the phone quiet for a few seconds and responds with "mhmm".
I don't know if I screwed up or if this is progress since he brought up our R for the first time in months. Right when I start to pull back and really be happy, I've observed action on his part. My gut is that he is testing the waters. I went dark and really kicked up my detachment and GAL over the last 2 months.
Help please.
This happened to me the first time my H went AWOL. He had an OW, then he decided he didn't want to be with her anymore. This was after he's been away from the family home for 8 months. I rang me every day and we chatted for a while. After about a week or 2 of chatting on the phone every morning, he said he thought he was going through the male menopause. He asked me to look it up on the internet to see if it existed. Then a day later he asked to come back home. I didn't really want him back as I'd moved on and told him that a lot of water had gone under the bridge. He asked for a second chance, he said to think about it. He said that he needed to get away from this OW and if I didn't want him back he'll stay there but he wasn't happy staying there. I took him back for the sake of our son who was only 8 at the time.
It took a while to learn to trust him again. We had no counselling and I wasn't reading any self help books at the time. I wasn't even going on any marriage forums, because as far as I was concerned the marriage was over.
This time round it's different. There's no OW, no real reason for him leaving, he's just left!
I think in your situation, continue to let him take the initiative and phone you. Don't assume that he's getting closer, just look for improvements in the way you communicate.
Look for little signs that things are getting better. Always try and not lose your temper with him, even if he does with you. You need to be the better woman, someone that he will yearn to get back with. Read, read and read some more, get some IC, post on here regularly and have a PMA. Good luck
Keep us posted
MrBond, I would love to hear from you. You've been incredibly helpful thus far.
H mentioned rejection several times on the phone--rejection from me and his family--explaining that is why he had to find love somewhere else. Is it time to 180 that or keep up being lovingly distant?
The way you've been handling everything has been great. In fact, since you said that your H is a celebrity and he's been posting pix of him and his OW while you're with the kids, he's got some nerve to say how hurt HE is. I think to a certain degree he craves a certain amount of attention and for once you're not giving it to him.
What I read in his messages to you was all blameshifting. "Oh woe is me, my W and family are rejecting me. That's why I HAD to move somewhere else, blah blah blah". He hasn't taken any responsibility for the things he did. Almost all WAS's do this. I understand if he felt like you were distant with him in the past, etc., but the LAST thing a MARRIED person does is to find another person.
Unless your H is in high school, that's not the way you deal with things.
You're doing very well. Keep your concentration on your kids. And to be honest, it seems like he's monitoring your FB posts indirectly, so I would suggest you post every happy pic you have with your kids and out on your own. Show him what he's missing. Keep up the great work!
Oh and since your H is a celeb, I'm not sure if you also get photographed out in public. Photos like that are priceless.
Thanks MrBond. Glad to know I'm on the right track.
R talk continues yesterday via text.
H: I realize where we are now is not R or M material...Given our history, we have always been way up and way down. Coming back with what I've done and what I personally deal with is not an option...So filing for divorce seems like an obvious step, but I'm more concerned about being a father than going through a divorce on my priority list. JPL you're amazing but I don't deserve you. You deserve someone who is honest and faithful and forthright with their feelings. I've lost my opportunity to give you that and I realize that you deserve something much better than me. I want the best for you...and I realize it's not me.
JPL: You have no right to say what is best for me or say what I want or should have. I want to understand something you said. Can you please explain, "Coming back home from what I've done and personally deal with is not an option"?
H: I've just done so much wrong. I'm so sorry and guilty. I've been hurt and I dealt with it in the worst way which was being unfaithful. Especially after we separated. OW is the most faithful I've been in 5 months.
The above exchange leaves me confused. Somehow my actions are communicating that returning is not an option. I'm trying not to mind read. Is this an instance H is speaking in absolute negatives--believe nothing they say and 50% of what they do? What should my approach be now?
Don't worry about what he wrote. He's still blameshifting and presenting that "oh woe is me" attitude.
Here's the breakdown:
"Given our history, we have always been way up and way down."
"OUR"? "WE"? He still places blame on you.
"Coming back with what I've done and what I personally deal with is not an option"
Because he doesn't have the b@ll$ to confront his wrongs and takes the easy way out.
"So filing for divorce seems like an obvious step,"
To him because he obviously knows how to cope with things in a healthy manner.
"but I'm more concerned about being a father than going through a divorce on my priority list."
Translation: I'm a great dad so I can get partial custody and downplay my affairs.
"JPL you're amazing but I don't deserve you. You deserve someone who is honest and faithful and forthright with their feelings."
Falling on his sword. He is soooo gracious to "give" you away.
"I've lost my opportunity to give you that and I realize that you deserve something much better than me. I want the best for you...and I realize it's not me."
"I want" - see?
"I've just done so much wrong. I'm so sorry and guilty."
Insincere.
"I've been hurt and I dealt with it in the worst way which was being unfaithful."
See? He's blaming you first - "I've been hurt".
"Especially after we separated. OW is the most faithful I've been in 5 months."
What part of this sentence even makes the most remote bit of sense? So he's faithful to the OW? How delusional. So he can't be faithful to HIS WIFE and HIS KIDS? but wants to be a good dad?
Your response was great. Continue to tell him that he can't tell you how you're supposed to feel. Start ignoring every other call he sends in. And when he does call, make sure you're out doing something. Present him with something the OW can't ... his family and YOU.
Things have been getting interesting.
A little background, I've been spending some time with old co-workers as part of my GAL. One in particular, is a guy who coincidentally attended school with my H. Over the past couple of months we've been hanging out a lot. I've been very clear about my sitch w/ H. On a few occasions he has expressed that he loves me, mind you it was communicated through drunk texts, so I didn't make anything of it. Sober, he has expressed his attraction and admiration for me but understands my feelings are not reciprocated. I shared this info with my brother-in-law's wife, whom I'm very close with. Brother-in-law snooped through her phone and thinks I'm dating this guy.
Wed night, H comes by to pick up the kids. I leave for my friend's house to get dinner and go test drive some cars. Immediately after I pick him up, the thought of H seeing me with him crosses my mind. Right before I reach the on ramp to the freeway is my H, who sees me drive by with my friend in the car. My heart sank.
While I was out, I received a few texts from H asking when I'll be home. I respond and ask him if the kids are ok but did not tell him when I would be home because I truthfully didn't know. As I was returning, he texts me and says "So I saw you and the new guy..._____? =) He looks more like your type j/k. So when will you be done with your date." I responded once I got home with a short "I'm home."
H comes in with the kids and I act as if nothing happened. He begins to accuse me more and I respond with "I'm not going to dignify your accusations with a response because you didn't simply ask me if I was seeing someone. Besides, why do you care when you don't want me?" H eyes well up and his lips quiver and says "I do care."
We go back in forth disagreeing about a number of things from the reason for the separation, the nature of this friendship, the way he treated the kids and I leading up to the separation, the effort he puts into R w/ OW in comparison to the lack of effort he put into the M over the past 2 years...it was awful. Both of us had a lot to say.
It ended the conversation with "If OW makes you happy, I won't stand in your way. You didn't want me or this family."
He remorsefully says, "I've messed up so much, why would you want me back? How could you take me back after all I've done."
Today, I stopped by my mother-in-law's to drop off some goodies from Hawaii. She shares with me that she had brunch with H. He was distraught--he told them I was dating. He shared that he wanted to come home when he returned to Sacramento, but I didn't need him now. H said he wanted to try to work things out. She defended me and said he needs to drop OW first then work on R. He was broken over the mistakes he made and said that I couldn't possibly take him back.
What now?
Bump.
Anyone have some advice? Continue to be lovingly distant and GAL? Have I made the road home rocky?
Actually your situation couldn't have turned out better. His paranoina and guilt from cheating on you is again being reflected onto you by him. He cheats so he automatically assumes that you cheat.
Don't clarify anything for him. You said your peace. He still hasn't taken ANY responsibility for his bad actions and if you notice in your conversation, has repeatedly mentioned about what YOU did as opposed to what HE did.
" He shared that he wanted to come home when he returned to Sacramento, but I didn't need him now."
More "oh woe is me" talk. He "wanted" to come home before while he was with OW? Please.
"H said he wanted to try to work things out."
Really? By having an OW?
"She defended me and said he needs to drop OW first then work on R."
That is great.
"He was broken over the mistakes he made and said that I couldn't possibly take him back."
You should tell her that he needs to get help, drop the OW and then start working on his M with you if he was really serious.
Oh and one thing I would suggest is that the next time he goes off into rant about why you would want him, etc., look him dead in the eye and tell him that what he is doing is wrong and continues to be wrong, but you understand why he feels that way. Tell him that he needs to decide if the OW or his family is more important to him and that you will not continue to be blamed for his bad choices. Then walk away. Drop mike, walk off stage.
MrBond, you're a godsend. Thank you for your advice and taking the time to write. H is leaving for Vegas today to move his things back and will return on Monday. His brother will be joining him. We shall see what happens next.
It's been a few months since I've posted here which is a good sign...positive movement. H and I are in a new place in our S. I don't know how to describe it other than it being similar to the period that preceded our first date. We kinda "like" each other, enough to be curious about what it would be like to do something alone. H invited me on all of his activities with the kids, and even assumed I was gonna join him on a few. I never pressure him to be around me--I've truly transformed back to the girl he first fell for--and he's even joked around about it.
Question: When you reconcile, do you feel like your roles in the relationship completely change, possibly even reverse?
It feels like the purpose of the separation was accomplished---work on ourselves to figure out what we want and who we want to be--and come back changed. Can anyone relate or has been there?
Another update: H and OW broke up again. Does DBing change? If so, how does DBing change when that happens?
I've truly transformed back to the girl he first fell for--and he's even joked around about it.
Fantastic! That is a sign of good DB'ing right there!
Question: When you reconcile, do you feel like your roles in the relationship completely change, possibly even reverse?
MWD says in DR that your goal is not to revive your old M. Consider your old M dead and gone. Instead, your goal is to establish a NEW relationship and marriage with your H. Of course it's not the same as dating a stranger because you've got a lot of history with him, but you've grown and changed a lot through your DB'ing and this is going to change the dynamic of the R.
It feels like the purpose of the separation was accomplished---work on ourselves to figure out what we want and who we want to be--and come back changed. Can anyone relate or has been there?
You've probably changed more than him. Often the LBS does the lion's share of the work in saving the M while the WAS does nothing other than pursue their own selfish desires. So when the WAS expresses interest in working on things, often the LBS is very far along on their journey of growth while the WAS hasn't even started yet. So be prepared, he may yet still be on the roller coaster.
Another update: H and OW broke up again. Does DBing change? If so, how does DBing change when that happens?
DB'ing does not change until the WAS is well and truly ready to work on piecing. Some aspects of DB'ing are forever (particularly listening/ validating skills) while others should be suspended in piecing (going dim/ dark for example). I assume you're still S'd? If so, try and read through the threads in the piecing forum before considering letting him move back. It'll give you an idea of what to expect. Often the LBS's have lofty expectations when the WAS moves back, and the WAS's ALWAYS fail to meet those expectations. This can lead to resentment in the LBS and sometimes they become the WAS. Read the threads, be prepared for what to expect. Piecing is hard, hard work.
MWD says in DR that your goal is not to revive your old M. Consider your old M dead and gone. Instead, your goal is to establish a NEW relationship and marriage with your H. Of course it's not the same as dating a stranger because you've got a lot of history with him, but you've grown and changed a lot through your DB'ing and this is going to change the dynamic of the R.
Great because our old M needed to die! I like the change in dynamic, it seems as though we're both happier.
You've probably changed more than him. Often the LBS does the lion's share of the work in saving the M while the WAS does nothing other than pursue their own selfish desires. So when the WAS expresses interest in working on things, often the LBS is very far along on their journey of growth while the WAS hasn't even started yet. So be prepared, he may yet still be on the roller coaster.
Thanks for the warning. I'm keeping a safe distance. He has changed a lot and I've been applauding the 1% of improvement to encourage him. We're in a good place. I just have to remember to pace myself.
DB'ing does not change until the WAS is well and truly ready to work on piecing. Some aspects of DB'ing are forever (particularly listening/ validating skills) while others should be suspended in piecing (going dim/ dark for example). I assume you're still S'd? If so, try and read through the threads in the piecing forum before considering letting him move back. It'll give you an idea of what to expect. Often the LBS's have lofty expectations when the WAS moves back, and the WAS's ALWAYS fail to meet those expectations. This can lead to resentment in the LBS and sometimes they become the WAS. Read the threads, be prepared for what to expect. Piecing is hard, hard work.
We're still S'd. Letting go of expectations is a huge 180 for me. So far so good! There has not been any talk of moving back in, but lots of flirtation and innuendo.
OMG! I think I may be in piecing! I had to come here to share in the excitement and get support! I'll update more in the morning. If this is really it, it's not at all what I dreamed it would be like!...it's better!!!
Breathe! Be calm.
LOL! Well that sounds like great news, congratulations!! I look forward to reading how this came about
I'm so looking forward to this too! Yes, please do post good news! We could all use it
Over the past couple of weeks, H and I have been flirting and even sexting. We've been communicating frequently on a daily basis about everything--joking and having fun. A couple of things have happened, they may not be significant to some of you, but knowing H, I can not dismiss his effort/feelers:
1) H and OW broke up earlier this month. I did not react other than asking if he was okay.
2) H reminisced about our wedding song. This artist has a new album out and he texted me a screen shot of the album and song he was listening to. He said, "Just downloaded the new album and I thought of you. I know you would like it." The song, is a more positive version of our wedding song.
3) While H has been on the road, he has texted saying that he misses us and is thinking of me.
4) We call each other new pet names.
5) We buy each other gifts.
6) He is taking us on vacation in less than 2 weeks. I had to 180 and go with the flow. I don't adapt well to surprises.
6) Last night, I saw my husband and joked around about "hooking up" There is tons of physical chemistry between us still. He shut me down but I didn't let it get my spirits down. When we parted ways, he texted me that he had more to explain and that he feels guilty. I validated and said I was ready to listen whenever he wanted to talk. In summary, he says I'm not just some regular girl. I'm different. He doesn't want to rush into things or use me. There is definitely a spark again. He wants things to feel natural and he is open to whatever happens. Being that he is an artist, he has to go off of his feelings. He is excited about our trip and I can sense he is taking this opportunity to try to reconnect. I ended the conversation thanking him for his honesty and valuing me as a person (180). I suggested that we not over think things (180). There are no rules for "us" and we are far from ordinary because of his work. I am interested in discussing things but I'm more interested in the future and not rehashing our past hurts. Just move forward (180). He responded with, "That sounds perfect. =)" and proceed to compliment me and talk about how excited he was about our trip.
Whew!
Today, we had lunch as a family. It was fun and this is so exciting, reconnecting and getting to know each other again. We have both changed so much. I have to keep up my GALs, work on my 180s, and applaud his changes and improvement. I'm trying my best to be optimistic.
Good for you, it sounds like you are doing great
That sounds really positive, but just take it slow because if he just broke up with OW earlier this month then you may be his "rebound". He may also still be grieving the loss of that relationship. Don't push him too fast (thinking about your "hooking up" comment), let him drive the pace of things.
We have both changed so much.
I'm sure you've changed a lot, but he probably hasn't changed as much as you think. Often when piecing happens, the LBS is disappointed when they discover the WAS has not grown at all while the two were apart. Just be ready for him to have a lot of the same old baggage.
Good luck!