New thread --my third:
Here's the link to my last:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2311785&page=1 TIme to start a new thread.
Got through January which is always a winter obstacle for me. February will be another hill to climb.
Quick review: BD last June. H in EA w OW. His mom died in AUgust from cancer. H moved out 11-12. H claims he hasn't made a "decision" about his future. I think he has.
Wow. I can't believe I condensed my sitch so briefly. It seems like it has been so long since BD. We have 3 boys who are all dealing w their dad moving out differently.
H comes to our house to see boys each day after school and on w/e from noon to dinnertime. It is hard for me to be around him at times. He seems so cold and distannt to me. He is a stranger in my H's body.
We had a good M (or so I thought). We hardly ever fought. We took lots of vacations w our family. Things started getting "different" when H's mom was diagnosed w cancer. I unfortunately wasn't in tune w his distancing from me. I didn't nurture him like he needed. He moved away from me when he found someone else who he thought "understood" him more, gave him lots of verbal praise, and who needed him (she was going through a tough M sitch, I guess).
Regardless, here we are. Together for 20 years and we are like strangers. He has rejected our family life, as he got tired of living "minute to minute" w schedules, carpooling, getting things done at home, etc. The never-ending routine is one of his complaints. Yet, this is part of family life.
OW has 2 younger children, so I don't see how adding another family is going to be the answer to his happiness issues.
I feel like if H's EA becomes a PA I will be done. He is trying to "live as a M man" while he is living on his own. OW is still living w her Ex(?) while they are trying to sell their house. I think my H & OW are waiting for her to be "free" from her Ex. I really don't get it.
I want to be hopeful but my H has shown absolutely NO baby steps in my direction. He seems to be moving slowly on the same path since the beginning.
I am sad for me and my boys. I am getting used to our new normal of living w/o him, though. I don't want to go through life feeling the loneliness I feel now.
I have also given myself a timeline, but don't want to say it out loud just yet. I can't live in limbo forever, nor do I deserve to be treated like OPTION B. I'm not even sure if he would see me as an option at all anymore, as he seems fairly sure he would never have feelings for me again. (Mind reading, a little here, but that is my interpretation of what he's said).
Pray every night for hope, guidance, love, peace, happiness and strength. Both for me and H.
Oops, made a mistake on my thread topic!
Now I have it right.
You are never ever ever option B....you are always option A turtle.
I know that, you know that, H has forgotten.
Do not forget it yourself.
I also gave myself a timeline, but more in terms of how I was going to live my life as a D person, even if I wasn't. It forced me to keep moving on the path I had started upon, because there were goals I had to achieve if I was to be where I wanted. It had nothing to do with H, or the fact that I love him, it had everything to do with me.
That, made the difference in my life.
Thanks, ruby,
Do you mind sharing more specifics of what you mean when you decided how you were going to live your life as a D person?
You are right that I need goals. It's hard to think of the future in ANY terms right now.
GTO, you've been dedicated to your H and kids for a long time. Ask yourself, who are you, really? What matters to you in life? Maybe your first goal is to come up with a dream for you to achieve. And another goal might be to be patient and kind to yourself.
Also, think about all the reasons your M is in trouble and the role you played. You can't do anything about your H's behavior except for changing your own behavior. Remember what Michelle says: we have incredible influence on our S's, whether they acknowledge it or not!
I am just reading up on your sitch, but big hugs! You seem very strong, and these situations are so tough.
I don't have much advice, as my S just started.
Thanks, ruby, Tori and Tallula,
I am struggling to answer the question, "Who am I?" I am a mom of 3 boys. I am a wife (although that role is up in the air). I am good at my job (usually) and like what I do (usually) & it is important to me. I am part of two families that love and support me-mine & my H's.
I think an even harder question is "What makes ME happy?" I know being with my boys does. I know being a good mom does. Having good friends. Keeping in contact w my family. Exercising.
BUt, there's lots of happy things missing too. I have to think about what these are--a lot of them are things I thought were part of my life, but now are gone w H gone.
I am struggling to answer the question, "Who am I?" I am a mom of 3 boys. I am a wife (although that role is up in the air). I am good at my job (usually) and like what I do (usually) & it is important to me. I am part of two families that love and support me-mine & my H's.
I think an even harder question is "What makes ME happy?" I know being with my boys does. I know being a good mom does. Having good friends. Keeping in contact w my family. Exercising.
BUt, there's lots of happy things missing too. I have to think about what these are--a lot of them are things I thought were part of my life, but now are gone w H gone.
This is something I think we all struggle with. It is hard defining yourself as one person for years and then the lead actor has left, taken all his lines and you don't know what you are supposed to say or even act. How does one begin to create their own story?
Acting as if divorced.
That H has own life. Generally I am happy with him and our situation and wish nothing but the best for him. Although at this point, I am still hoping it is me that will be along for ride. When I act as divorced, I will not hope it is me and accept it will NOT be me.
I will do whatever I want (within reason). I do this now, but also with an eye to H and changes I have made and am still making. Although, it is beginning to dawn on me, that all the changes in me will not make H come back. These changes are positive though, and I wouldn't let them go for the world. So when Divorced in my head, I act in best interest of me and kids...no one else.
I will be happy for my children's father, sad for him if he is not doing well, but my life will not be affected to a degree that it becomes detrimental to walking my own path.
I have a timeline...:) I look forward to the D in my head, but am content to be here as well. The day I am not content, I wait it out, think about and shorten timeline if it is best thing for me.
Don't get me wrong...I have bad, doubting days...days of thinking I will never have anyone, days of imagining H having the time of his life etc etc. Days where I am so, so angry and discouraged.
But they get less and less, shorter and shorter.
Take up running...trust me. Apparently spouse leaves, must run long distance races. This seems to be MO for many a LBS and some was too!!
Hi LittleGTO,
I learned that seeing H on a daily ongoing basis made it very difficult for me to detach. It took me 7mos to focus on myself and a year after that to really work on detaching.
And although I'd like to think that I finally surrendered, I continue to work on it everyday.
All I can recommend is that you continue to work on detaching. Just like forgiveness, it's a choice. As you practice it continuously, you will feel it. It may take a while or it may be sooner than you think.
Don't measure yourself by other's timeline. This is your timeline. No one here is living your sitch. We all share very similar events however everyone's sitch is unique.
It isn't until now that I can thank God for my journey. If it weren't for this experience I would not have made tremendous hurdles to be a better mother, daughter, sister, friend. Not just a better partner.
It took me over 1 year to change the dynamics of my M. I started attending ACOA when I can and I'm flying out to EE thursday. Me and my W are happier then we ever have been in our 10 years of marriage.
Little I think you might have to change some of your thought process:
Like. "my husband made a decision, I think he has"
No you don't. You have no clue what the future will bring. Focus on yourself. Stop mind reading and analyzing. I know it is tough with 3 kids. Simple things. Did you get a cat? Change your hair do. Goto the gym and get a body to die for. Straighten your hair. Cut your hair. Dye your hair. Where fun clothes.
You know you are mind reading. You even state that you are. So may I suggest you STOP.
If you continue to try to figure out craziness, you become crazy.
Definition of insanity is doing the same things day in and day out and expecting different results.
What are you doing different to change the dynamics. What are you doing for self growth to become a woman only a fool would want to leave.
You will make it. Tell yourself that. Continue to get STRONG. You realize the more he thinks he has you hooked the more he wont want to come back.
If it is hard for you to be around your Hubby at times then dont' be. Disappear. If you have to be always be happy. Happier then normal. Stop the pursuit
Read "5 love languages"
What are you doing to GAL? I mean truly GAL? What is your passion? Do you like to cook? Take a class. Is there something you always wanted to do in life? Sky dive? Take 1 day a time.
Good for you PoN! I need to catch up on your thread!
Completely agree with PoN. Great advice.
PoN, Thanks for your great advice. You are absolutely right on all points.
I do know I need to stop mind-reading.
I read 5LL & was not good w meeting H's but he was better w me.
I do think I need to disappear even more when H is around on w/e's. I try to be busy but I also tried something different since being dim wasn't changing anything.
When I try talking to him it is like talking to a wall. He obviously isn't interested in talking about anything other than what we need to (kids, finances)...not mind-reading here, I actually asked him why he wasn't responding to my conversation.
He said, "It's just hard with the situation (OW in his life). Does he actually feel like he's betraying her talking to me?
GAL's...well, I have been meeting up w old friends, exercising my brains off, and going to boys' activities. I also scrapbook at home. Need to get out and meet new people, I think.
Still thinking and researching about getting a cat.
Its up to you whether you stick around while he is there visiting the kids. If it is to painful then I suggest making yourself look really good and when he gets there go out and say you will be back before he leaves.
"When I try talking to him it is like talking to a wall. He obviously isn't interested in talking about anything other than what we need to (kids, finances)...not mind-reading here, I actually asked him why he wasn't responding to my conversation."
What are you trying to talk to him about? Relationship talk? Temperature checking? When my W was silent to me I did not speak with her unless she wanted too outside of kids stuff. We lived under the same roof and I got the silent treatment on Thx Giving and Xmas. Also had a laptop thrown at me and a few nights my kids withheld from me. YOU CAN DO THIS.
"He said, "It's just hard with the situation (OW in his life). Does he actually feel like he's betraying her talking to me?"
Mind reading and analyzing once again
"GAL's...well, I have been meeting up w old friends, exercising my brains off, and going to boys' activities. I also scrapbook at home. Need to get out and meet new people, I think."
great, but join something new where you meet all new people that don't know anything about your situation. for me it was a texas holdem poker league. new people every night. no nonsense. played cards with good people and went home.
"Still thinking and researching about getting a cat."
Some inertia here?? What is there to research. Either you want one or don't. If you do goto a local shelter and save an animal. It is actually a great feeling. all of my dogs were rescued.
Thanks, again, PoN,
I am NOT initiating R talks! I just find it uncomfortable to be around him and not to be able to just talk about anything except the kids and finances. It actually drives me crazy when all he does is reviews the kids' schedule for the next day! (Necessary, but when its ALL about that, it is just ...well, limited and robotic.)
I have my kids 7 nights a week right now, so getting out once on the weekends is about all I can manage. Plus, my 3 boys are all busy w own activities and that keeps ME busy too. (Not to make excuses, it just is what it its).
Where did you find new people to meet and new activities???
Why can't you find a better schedule for you? Why can't he come see kids during the week?
I joined a card club. Went to gym. Played guitar. Golfed. Worked on my business etc.
LittleGTO, I can only echo what the others have written. Focus on yourself, let H do what he thinks he needs to do.
I can very well understand that it's tough to meet him every day. I noticed the same in the beginning of my crisis. After BD, when I was still in the house with W, the atmosphere deteriorated by the day, it was tense and icy. I then left the house, predominantly for professional reasons, but the separation also helped me to detach much better than before. Maybe an option is to agree on a clear slot with H and leave the house while he is there, for exercising or shopping. Yes, it's an escape but a justified one. You don't need to torment yourself, you need to feel good! Eventually you'll find the strength to face H more often but for now protect yourself.
One more thing: do you find yourself attractive or do you wish to improve anything about your appearance? Don't be afraid to be "sexy". Not for H but for yourself. And if you manage to attract glances of other men it won't harm your self-esteem either. This "primal" aspect of a marriage gets too little emphasis in the forum, in my opinion.
I am always thankful when I come on here and others have taken the time to post, so thank you!
I tried to fill H in on things that were going on w our kids today, but he seemed impatient and cut me off (on the phone) "do any of the kids need to talk to me?"
I answered, "I guess you're done talking to you. S11 will call you later. Bye." I hung up quickly. I know, I know, not good DBing. Not detached. It just sux that he claims to "care about me" but his signals read "I don't give a $h_t about you."
Anyway, need to detach more, I know.
longrun, I feel good about how I look right now. Probably in the best shape since pre-kids. Lost 17 lbs upon BD & now am "tiny" (people say). I am working on a fitness goal (cycling).
H comes to house every day after school to see kids & I'm not here usually. Weekends we are running around w activities on Saturday, so it's really just Sunday afternoons that I need to make myself scarce.
When I have evening plans H stays here at the house w boys OR I leave them alone for a few hours (as oldest is 13). I am NOT comfortable w them going to H's apartment AT ALL. BUt, in the long run if we remain S I think weekends will need to be different.
Dreams--I've always wanted to go cross country seeing the sights and staying at different places/some camping. Don't feel brave enough to do this one my own w boys, and definitely want to share this adventure w someone.
BTW- I have decided to get a kitten for my boys for VDay!
S11 LOVES cats! I think a family pet (other than our 2 guinea pigs) will be a nice diversion from H's absence. Something to give unconditional love to.
"I guess you're done talking to ME," not you
Yes try not to react to his childish behavior
GTO, I like the fact you're writing down your dreams and think of what you want to accomplish in life. That's great.
I think you should really consider letting the kids go to your H's place. This will provide a feeling of equality in the R, and will give your H a taste of what it really means to be separated.
Keep working on detachment.
(((((((((((((GTO)))))))))))))
One more thing: do you find yourself attractive or do you wish to improve anything about your appearance? Don't be afraid to be "sexy". Not for H but for yourself. And if you manage to attract glances of other men it won't harm your self-esteem either. This "primal" aspect of a marriage gets too little emphasis in the forum, in my opinion.
Agreed. I've been keeping more regular haircuts and dressing nicer. Others do notice and it does help me feel attractive.
Why are you not comfortable with them going to his apartment? Has he asked for them to stay at his apartment? I would allow them to go. This would let you start to GAL and become mysterious a little. Right now you are a prisoner. He knows you can't go out but he can. What kind of life is that? Again this is for YOU. To save you and your self esteem
We agreed when H moved out that the apartment was for HIM to have time and space. It is a 1 bdrm & doesn't have a place for boys to sleep (except floor, of course).
We also agreed that boys would remain in their home-ONE home, not dragged around back and forth to two places. I am very adament about this for them.
I am NOT a prisoner. I choose this. I choose to be with my kids. They will only be young once, and I choose to be there for them.
On weekends I can go out w friends when I plan in advance (or even if I dont' boys can stay home by themselves for a few hours).
Having said that, I DO need to meet new people-open myself up for new life experiences and possibilities. It's finding the balance that I need/want that I need to work on. I know I need to let my control over the boys' lives go a little, but this is not a sacrifice I make easily (I didn't ask not to be w my boys, H did...he did literally say he needed space from "Family life.")
Have you ever thought about rotating YOU and H at the apartment. You sleep at the apartment on the nights he has them. Many folks are doing this now. This way the kids stay in their home but you both have ample time and space with the kids. You both would have to be on board with it. Your H has the best of both worlds right now. Just saying.
On his weekend you sleep at the apartment. On your weekend he sleeps at the apartment. Same for during the week
I see your points though. If you are happy with the arrangement then great!
Have you ever thought about rotating YOU and H at the apartment. You sleep at the apartment on the nights he has them. Many folks are doing this now. This way the kids stay in their home but you both have ample time and space with the kids. You both would have to be on board with it. Your H has the best of both worlds right now. Just saying.
On his weekend you sleep at the apartment. On your weekend he sleeps at the apartment. Same for during the week
I see your points though. If you are happy with the arrangement then great!
We almost did this, and still plan to if our kids respond poorly to them staying at H's apartment. H felt like I would end up getting resentful having to clean 2 places...lol. At least he has seen enough about himself to realize that he doesn't take care of much. But, my kids are so young that they can stay in his bedroom and a pack n play.
Dreams--I've always wanted to go cross country seeing the sights and staying at different places/some camping. Don't feel brave enough to do this one my own w boys, and definitely want to share this adventure w someone.
This is great fun, you definitely should plan trips for the summer. I'd start with long day trips. Then you can get a tent, try it at home and as a next step during a weekend trip for one night. I bet your sons would love it and they are old enough to be more of a support than a burden.
BTW- I have decided to get a kitten for my boys for VDay!
S11 LOVES cats! I think a family pet (other than our 2 guinea pigs) will be a nice diversion from H's absence. Something to give unconditional love to.
I fully support this idea, too. We had a cat when I was young, it stayed with us for 18 years. It really was a family member and we always took it/her along during holiday trips.
when he cuts you off or doesn't sound interested, take it as is and don't give him too much detail. It's ok if he's not interested in their daily activities (right now). He's got too much on his plate and doesn't want to add more. Don't take it personal.
However, I'm not saying excuse the behavior.
Imagine you have a very very stressful situation and a friend comes over wanting you to help her move! A healthy person would say, I'm sorry, I have to much going on right now.
A lot of the things WAS do, we take personally. DON'T!
Mr B really helped me realize not to take things personal.
QTIP: quit taking it personal
Loving the QTIP Turtle !!
Listen, give serious weight to going to H's apartment alternate weekends. Have some downtime, relax, find a new GAL, see a movie alone, go to a wine tasting, art show, play, theatre, opera etc. something so totally different. Attend a cycling or running seminar. It will be hard to leave babies at first, but guess what? Kids have two parents.
Right now you are stuck and kids are old enough to be accepting when you say, this is how it will go. Start with one night and maybe work up to two.
Will be setting schedule myself with H come April. I would also like some down time :))
PS-Turtle, my slippers are the RUBY slippers
Thanks, PoN, vero, longrun and Tallula,
Interestingly I am noticing that I am starting to become more focused and "in the moment" when I'm at work. I have more time between thougts of my sitch/m H. It is nice to feel a little more like myself at work.
At home is another story. While we ARE getting used to our new routine, it is very hard to be alone at night after boys go to sleep.
I hate the lonliness, yet I also am in a new place where I'm finding I don't feel like reaching out and talking to the people I've been confiding in.
I just have no new news and don't want to talk in circles about things I've already vented about. Although I notice my famliy and close friends have also been contacting me less.
My H has been acting COLD and INDIFFERENT towards me--more and more. I don't know if it is reaction to my less contact or presence or his general feelings towards me. Either way it sux.
I need to remember not to react to his coldness. Continue to be upbeat and positive at all turns.
I am still in day by day mode. But, my thoughts drift to the future sometimes. I can't see H CHOOSING to let OW go. Not at all. And, the more time that goes by the harder it is for me to see the possibility of us ever R.
Ahhhh, staying in the present.
Ahhhh, staying in the present.
eckhart tolle - A New Earth
eckhart tolle - The Power of Now (hence my handle)
read
.
I am still in day by day mode. But, my thoughts drift to the future sometimes. I can't see H CHOOSING to let OW go. Not at all. And, the more time that goes by the harder it is for me to see the possibility of us ever R.
GTO,
Remember that, although you can't see him giving up the OW, he will not be able to maintain the feeling he has with her forever. Sooner or later, the new car smell is gonna fade away and he's gonna be stuck with something less than what he thinks he has. Then she's not going to look so good to him anymore. It can also work the other way around, too. She may get tired of him and decide to pull the plug. The fact is that you indeed cannot tell the future. Keep your chin up, GTO! You definitely have something he likes. REFINE it!
PON- Thanks to the reference to your name. I have heard of this book, but not read it. I'll add it to my list. A New Earth..hmm.
Pathfinder, Thanks for the perspective that OW will not always look the same to H or vice versa. You are right that their R has to evolve at some point.
TOday-
Interaction w H was better- still mostly about schedule/kids. But, we are getting a huge snowstorm tomorrow & I asked H point blank (nicely) if he was coming to snowplow us out or if he wasn't. He said right away he was planning to come.
Also, when he was leaving I asked him for a hug. Its been a little while (over a week?) since we've hugged.
He hugged me briefly and then said something about me hanging up on him the other night (like that's why he's been cold??)
Earlier this week ...After S9 talked to him on phone I was filling him in on some things & he just cut me off in the middle of a sentence, so I quickly said, "Well, I guess you're done talking to me. S11 will call you later. Click")
So after he mentioned me hanging up on him I gently let him know this was in response to him cutting me off. He said, "Yeah, I probably did that." I felt validated, but didn't feel good that I hadn't risen above to just not let his cutting me off bother me.
Not really a baby step, but feels better than H being cold.
Oh, the nights are killing me!! Glad your are getting better!
Oh, the coldness. H hasn't really been cold yet since S (week tomorrow) hugs me & kisses me hello & goodbye...but it's coming. It just will.
You are doing good. I'm giving you a big hug!!!
Thanks, Tallula,
I needed that!
Oh, BTW, I know I brought this up before, but the biggest day of showing affections to the one you love is coming soon...any thoughts????
I think just a card from me and boys together. Maybe something light and humorous.
?
Ugh, I don't even know. We bundle it with our wedding anniversar that is a few days after. Awesome...
I'm doing cards from the kids at least.
Little why would u buy a Valentines card or anything for a man that's cheating on you???
Are you worthless?
I don't think so.........
Let's focus on you. What do you think needs changing about you? Give us 5 things to work with......
I agree with Rick ^^^. Stop the pursuit. It will only make you feel worse when the rejection follows. Focus on you and not him. He isn't worth your emotional investment at the moment.
GTO,
I think we must be neighbors. We have the same storm coming along on Friday night.
Wow, thanks for the strong responses, Rick & 2thepoint!
I'll focus on what to get/do for the boys. Oh, yeah, we are going to adopt a kitten!
It'll be a surprise they'll love!
Five things I'm working on:
1) Showing appreciation/gratitude for little things done by others (thank you for every little thing--honestly).
2) Trying to really listen to what others are saying w/o readying my own response/opinions.
3) "Don't sweat the small stuff." Really since BD.
4) Letting go of control (esp when making decisions about kids-I always ask H his opinion & really try to agree on a joint decision rather than trumping his opinion when I don't agree).
5) GAL outside of home/joint friends/boys....not so good on this one, but am trying. Signed up for meet-ups, although have not had opportunity to go yet.
Been doing these (except #5) consistently for a while now, so they are really becoming more natural for me.
Tori & ruby, bustin and tallula and whoever else.....I'd love to join you all on the blanket!
Also, when he was leaving I asked him for a hug.
Don't do that anymore. It's pressure
After S9 talked to him on phone I was filling him in on some things & he just cut me off in the middle of a sentence, so I quickly said, "Well, I guess you're done talking to me. S11 will call you later. Click")
Don't do that anymore either. Do you think after you hung up, he felt more positive towards you? He didn't. Plain and simple, nobody likes to be hung up on. YOU need to remove the conflict. He wants you to act negatively, because it supports his decision to leave. Don't give him that anymore, GTO. You want him to get off the phone wondering why he ever left you in the first place. Afterall, You are so nice, upbeat and positive. You really have it going on. Let him hear that instead.
So after he mentioned me hanging up on him I gently let him know this was in response to him cutting me off. He said, "Yeah, I probably did that." I felt validated, but didn't feel good that I hadn't risen above to just not let his cutting me off bother me.
Good, you realize your mistake (don't we all after the fact), so make a better effort to keep the conversation upbeat and light. Don't get too involved in conflict unless absolutely needed. Don't play into the conflict ....happy....nice....upbeat....cheery!
Little # 4 on your list killed my M. I let exw decide what was best for my D even when I knew she was wrong. I became resentful and passive. When chit hit the fan I got angry and verbally abusive. I don't like confrontation. So I sat on my hands till I got pissed. My D as a result is in a lot of trouble. May repeat the 9th grade a 3rd time because I wasn't involved or agreed with exw just to keep the peace. Make sure that the kids are 1st and the R 2nd.
Rick,very interesting your take on my #4. Unfortunately my issue was kind of the reverse--I made kids#1 ALL the time and H #2 or 3 or 4.... so our R suffered because I always needed to be super mom and make sure I was/am doing right by them.
Unfortunately I am still doing this by controlling visitation. I talked w my IC about this today and she suggested I think hard about changing visitations for ME. Meaning, the kids will be fine if they visit H at his little, expensive, savings-account draining apartmt (sorry got off track there) and not have H come to house on w/e's where I am forced to either be there w him or go and find something to do (which I tend to do).
Rick, sorry to hear your D is not doing well in school. No child should repeat a grade for a third time...where will this get her (dropped out!). Her self esteem has already got to be suffering. Just saying my two cents.
sucker,
I don't usually ask for hugs but I do feel that it softened up the "coldness" a bit that has been lingering between us.
And, I almost never talk to him at night when he talks to boys at bedtime. So, filling him in b/c S11's school called b/c he had gotten an in-school detention, so I felt H needed to know. Somehow that was interesting/important enough to hold his attention to cut me off.
I've always been a sensitive person & take things to heart, so when H acts a certain way towards me it is very hard not to take it personally. The man I love treats me like $hit yet I still love him......odd when I think about it.
wasn't interesting/important enough , not was
I shared my experience so you may get something out of it. We are all different. My brother complains that his W does what u did. Kids 1st he second. Someone has to give in right? Who is the adult? It is a juggling act Little. It takes time and practice. So don't beat yourself. Unless u came with a manual....if u did shame on u for not reading it.....
Little I am going to hit the roof. You need a 2 x 4.
Did your husband ask for a hug? Why on earth would you hug him. YOU NEED TO STOP THE PURSUIT OR HE WILL NEVER COME BACK. DO YOU GET THIS????
How was that hug for you? Akward? Could you tell he didn't want to.
You should NOT get him a card period. The only card he should receive is from your kids. No card. No hug.
You went a week without a hug. I went 6 months without talking living under the same roof.
"Little I am going to hit the roof. You need a 2 x 4."
Whoah slow down. Who do you think you are? Me?
"Little I am going to hit the roof. You need a 2 x 4."
Whoah slow down. Who do you think you are? Me?
LMAO
But...I agree. No card, if you get one, great; if you don't great. No expectation otherwise it's gonna be a crappy Thursday.
Exchange with kids, make them a nice dinner or take the out.
D13 and I were talking
D: Just another Thursday
Me: Honey I think I'm gonna be single a lot longer than you!!
We laugh and she says
Let's buy each other presents!
Me: That is EXACTLY what I was going to say too! Cuz I love you guys...
And that is the awesomeness that is my kid <3
lol B. We might be a lot more a like then you think. Especially after I get my self esteem back and not let anyone beat me down like that again
Little,
As has been said several times earlier, keep the focus on you and your kiddos.
And that is the awesomeness that is my kid <3
...and having great ones like you do ^^^^^ , makes it easier.
Take the tips and the 2 x 4s in stride all for your own betterment. In the end, regardless of the M outcome, you will grow and become even more amazing of a person.
((((( )))))
LittleGTO - Just getting caught back up on your sitch. I had my 2x4 ready also after I read your post but I think that's been taken care of
. You are worth more than this, stop pursuing him.
So I have a question for you about control because it's something I deal with also and one of main reasons I'm on these boards. Why do you think you need to control things? Don't answer superficially but dig deep. My answer surprised me but was enlightening for my development. Once you know the answer next question is what can you do to change?
This was posting on here some time ago, sorry I don't know who originally posted it:
Letting Go (Of Control)
•To "let go" does not mean to stop caring, it means I can't do it for someone else.
•To "let go" is not to cut myself off, it's the realization I can't control another.
•To "let go" is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.
•To "let go" is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.
•To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another, it's to make the most of myself.
•To "let go" is not to care for, but to care about.
•To "let go" is not to fix, but to be supportive.
•To "let go" is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being.
•To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
•To "let go" is not to be protective, it's to permit another to face reality.
•To "let go" is not to deny, but to accept.
•To "let go" it not to nag, scold or argue, but instead to search out my own shortcomings, and correct them.
•To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires but to take each day as it comes, and cherish myself in it.
•To "let go" is not to criticize and regulate anybody but to try to become what I dream I can be.
•To "let go" is not to regret the past, but to grow and live for the future.
•To "let go" is to fear less, and love more.
"Little I am going to hit the roof. You need a 2 x 4."
Whoah slow down. Who do you think you are? Me?
I know, right? I think an alien has taken over.
About filling him in on the kids, unless it's something really big, do you think it's necessary or is it you wanting to make a connection. And I don't fault you for wanting to make the connection, I did too.
But to your H it most likely feels like pressure, more of the same.
Leave him adrift in the sea without moorings and see what happens, which way he paddles his boat.
It's his life, let him live it.
lol LA. Believe it or not I always KNEW what to do, I was just frozen and couldn't do it. I always KNEW what things worked and what things didn't but chose to do the things that didn't. Call me a slow learner or just stupid.
BTW LA. EE is perfect for me.
I am also grateful for your input throughout this process. It was quite nice meeting 25 in person.
Little. In all seriousness. If I listened to people like LA, 25, Bond, KD (very early on) and SO MANY others on this forum it would have not taken me a year plus to attend EE or discover that I am ACOA. You have been graced with some valuable information. It is your choice on what you will do with it. It may come across as harsh but everyone has been exactly where you are at. Good luck and keep pushing forward
GTO, you've been given some tough but good advice.
When they said, "You are worth more than this, stop pursuing him." They are right.
I know how hard this is, and how incomprehensible it is to receive this treatment from who you thought would be your life partner...but you must give him the space he needs now.
I agree with letting the kids visit him.
You've been so kind to me, and I thank you. I'm sending you a big, big hug.
I'm crying now b/c the 2 x 4 hurt AND more b/c you guys care enough to give it to me! Thank you!!!
I GET IT. No hug initiation. No VDay card. No more pursuit behaviors.
So, I'm scared to tell you all that he asked me for a hug before he left today....I gave him one. I didn't read all my posts before, so I'll try to do better starting tomorrow!
Spartan, thanks for the post about letting go (of control). I think I really have done a 180 on this a lot, but still have improvement to make. I will refer back to this list often.
Regarding the kids visiting H....it is more a fear for me than a control thing, I think. I fear being without them. Now that I'm not a wife (well, only on paper, really) I feel like w/o my kids I lose part of me being a mom too. I know this is not true, but it is how I feel. Stripped away...it makes me sick to think about not having my kids.
VDay--boys found out "accidentally--via a phone message from a local cat adoption" this morning that I had been making phone calls about kittens...so I told them I was planning to get a kitten for our family. They were out of this world EXCITED! They will help me pick one out in the next week or two. It will be a nice diversion from things for us.
When H came to visit today the boys told him & he in turn questioned my decision but didn't say anything about not telling him or consulting him (as I purposely did not say a word to him in advance).
GALs this weekend on hold as we are in the middle of a blizzard!
Ok, I'm 3 hours into my first night without my kids...and I am ok!! I'm excited by the time I have to just do whatever I want. You need to figure out who you are as an individual. Not a wife or mOther. I know for me, I really lost who I was once we started having kids. I pretty much never took off my mom hat, so our R suffered as a result. I suffered. We need to be whole people who join a R, not this 2 become 1 thing. I really would suggest letting go. I even simply packed the kids bags & didn't explain where everything was. Here's the bags. As another person with control issues, it has been really freeing for me. Scary, but good. I use to actually be carefree once...
As far as the hug thing, I believe it's ok when he asks and/or initiates a hug. That's not pursuing. It's what I'm doing. But my H pretty much hugs & kisses me hello & goodbye now. I don't expect or wait for it, cause it can always change.
Hmmm. I would ask the super pro veterans to chime in. He asked you for a hug. That is not pursuit but maybe a good time for some rejection on your end.
I am glad I stumbled upon your posts Gto. Well, not glad that any of us are here, but you know what I mean.
It is so tough to take off the mom hat and not let it define us totally. A sitter here and there - but actual set times each week that H will have them? I haven't been able to finish that conversation even tho he has asked. He did have D last night and it was tough. Thanks for posting what your IC said, and seeing what the others have said too has opened my eyes a bit that it needs to happen in order to DB - veterans can tell me if I'm reading this wrong!
Spartan - your comments about control are interesting. Maybe too personal to ask what you figured out as your issue? Guessing just not sure where to start digging on that one.
Has anyone read Let.It.Go. by Karen Ehrman (not sure I have her last name correct)? It's in my list and has great reviews. It's about letting go of control.
I agree with the others about Valentines - decided not to set myself up for disappointment either. D and I have made some did grandparents and daycare. What an awesome idea of the kitten for your family
Take care!
Hmmm. I would ask the super pro veterans to chime in. He asked you for a hug. That is not pursuit but maybe a good time for some rejection on your end.
I don't see how rejecting him will help bring them closer.
Mirror him. Give him the same type of hug he gives you. No more, no less.
I agree with FY. Just give him the same hug he gives you, GTO.
I hope you're staying safe and warm today. I'm stuck inside bc they haven't cleared the driveway/road yet.
Thanks for no 2x4's about the hug. NO hug after visit today!
Tori, stayed cozy & warm & no power loss-yeah! Went out to shovel snow a bit while boys played mostly. They HAD intentions of helping, but, well the 2+ feet of snow was just too tempting to tunnel & play vs. working/shoveling!
Interestingly H called early this morning to make sure we had power and to reinforce his committment to snowblow us out today. He called later at 11:00ish & said he wasn't sure when he would make it. I said, "That's okay, I can tackle the snowblower."
He immediately replied, "No,it's too big of a job. And, I'm bored (at my apartment doing nothing) anyway." I just don't think he really wanted me touching "his" snowblower! He came a couple hours later. It was nice not to do this, but I wonder about his reasons for wanting to do this. Oh, well.
Tomorrow my niece is having a family sweet 16 bday party at my SIL's (H's sister). I've been on the fence about driving out w H as he's been rather cold and non-talkative to me so I'd rather not do an 1 1/2hr drive w him NOT talking to me. BUT, when I asked him & he said he "assumed" we'd drive together.
I said, "That's fine, but I'd rather not if we aren't going to talk as it makes it uncomfortable for me." He said, "It goes both ways." (Clearly meaning that he feels I've not been talking to him either.)
So, we'll give this a go & see what happens. Odd normalcy in an abnormal situation.
My SIL's H'S family will be at the party too. H stated he is not looking forward to being around them (as this will be the first time he's been around them since they've known we are S). They are a strong Irish-Catholic family & will definitely have opinions about my H's actions (but we'll see if they say anything or not or treat him differently).
Tallula, thanks for your thoughts about visitation. I do want to make changes, but I'm not ready to yet. It is impossible to get out and meet new people/GAL when I always have the kids, but then again I still choose this for now.
Tallula, thanks for your thoughts about visitation. I do want to make changes, but I'm not ready to yet. It is impossible to get out and meet new people/GAL when I always have the kids, but then again I still choose this for now.
GTO,
I am wondering about this.^^^^ Is there a underlying fear in changing the dynamics? Is this a excuse to not get out?
GTO, a few comments:
The 1.5 hour drive is a perfect opportunity to listen and throw hints that show your changes. How do you think you have bettered yourself, BTW? Mull over this and see how you can bring this into the conversation.
I don't think anyone will say anything at the party. Act as if everything is fine.
Make your H feel comfortable. By you saying that you were uncomfortable about the possible silence, you created an expectation (negative) from his part. So avoid saying stuff like this.
Be appreciative for his help with the snow. My H didn't even call to see how I was doing after snowstorms when he had moved out and was having the A. I guess he was never a caring guy. Once I helped him unbury his car and as soon as we were done, he took off, leaving me with my own buried car :-( At least your H showed he cared.
Eyesopen asked a good Q. Are you not allowing the visitation bc of fear? Don't let fear dominate.
Tori,
I DO appreciate H digging us out and I told him that today TWICE! In fact that is one of my consistent 180's--thanking him for all the "little" and big stuff he does. He felt taken for granted. I sincerely thank him for EVERYTHING now & it feels natural to me. I know he's recognized this.
eyes,
Am I afraid to change the dynamics? No. Am I afraid of not having my kids? YES. I want them to be in their own home--for them and for me. Am I fearful of "getting out there?" YES. I don't to. A part of me wants to continue in my comfort zone. But, I know I NEED to.
I also want a "big card" to play when H starts dating OW. (Him not coming to house on w/e's will not go down well w him.)
He said today that he felt "stupid" that he did not know that I was getting a kitten before the boys. And, when was I planning to tell him?
I also ask a neighbor friend to come look at my washer to see if he could fix it before I spent a mint paying to have it serviced. H was in driveway when neighbor pulled up & said I had called to have him look at it. Later, H said he felt "dumb" that I had called neighbor (H isn't very "handy", but neighbor is).
I both counts I thought "TOO BAD!" but said nothing in response (but did validate!).
Tori,
I DO appreciate H digging us out and I told him that today TWICE! In fact that is one of my consistent 180's--thanking him for all the "little" and big stuff he does. He felt taken for granted. I sincerely thank him for EVERYTHING now & it feels natural to me. I know he's recognized this.
eyes,
Am I afraid to change the dynamics? No. Am I afraid of not having my kids? YES. I want them to be in their own home--for them and for me. Am I fearful of "getting out there?" YES. I don't to. A part of me wants to continue in my comfort zone. But, I know I NEED to.
I also want a "big card" to play when H starts dating OW. (Him not coming to house on w/e's will not go down well w him.)
He said today that he felt "stupid" that he did not know that I was getting a kitten before the boys. And, when was I planning to tell him?
I also ask a neighbor friend to come look at my washer to see if he could fix it before I spent a mint paying to have it serviced. H was in driveway when neighbor pulled up & said I had called to have him look at it. Later, H said he felt "dumb" that I had called neighbor (H isn't very "handy", but neighbor is).
I both counts I thought "TOO BAD!" but said nothing in response (but did validate!).
eyes,
Am I afraid to change the dynamics? No. Am I afraid of not having my kids? YES. I want them to be in their own home--for them and for me. Am I fearful of "getting out there?" YES. I don't to. A part of me wants to continue in my comfort zone. But, I know I NEED to.
I also want a "big card" to play when H starts dating OW. (Him not coming to house on w/e's will not go down well w him.)
GTO, I completely understand wanting the kids to stay in there own home. Maybe you could start with having your husband spend the night, while you go out and spend it with a friend. A little mystery, your out, and the kids are in there home. GALing is so important for detachment. I haven't been feeling the greatest this week, so I forced myself out the last two nights and had a blast both nights. So rather than thinking I will be okay without my w, GALing makes me believe I will be okay.
As far as the "big card" goes, it seems like a tactic. You are focusing on your husband and something that may never happen or maybe it already is happening. Say they aren't dating and you really start to GAL, will he wonder if he is losing you? Will he want to be part of your fun. Who knows, but I think you will start finding yourself. Otherwise you are putting your life on hold. Regardless of what happens we all need to be moving forward, even if it is with baby steps. I feel like you are in a holding pattern waiting for your h to change the dynamics.
Ok, I need a few suggestions on validating H's feelings. I know I need to be better about it. Can you give me some examples?
Please & thank you!
I would seriously consider either letting H take the kids or letting him spend the night & you go elsewhere. But really, I would let him take them. You seem alot like me in the kids department. I look at this as my H getting a chance to really step up as a dad...cause I'm out of the way. I can take over with the kids, so now he has to do it all himself. It's really good for all of us. I'm just being me, he gets to be a dad. Win, win.
The ride to the party sounds like a great opportunity for good conversation - just regular conversation not about situations. Hope you have a great time!
I agree with what Tallula said above about the kids and visitation. But it is easier said than done.
Little - I also like the idea of the ride to the party together. A good opportunity for YOU on several levels I think. To exercise your 180s for yourself (to see how much you have changed for yourself) and an opportunity for your H to see them as well. And to hopefully leave him thinking a little bit more....
One thing I was advised early on is to simply take things at face value. H does something nice like clearing the drive from the snow? It's a nice gesture and that is all... Don't look for any other meanings. As if a friend neighbour had offered to do the same. It's hard to do.. But it helped and helps me a lot still.
((()))
GTO, I completely understand wanting the kids to stay in there own home. Maybe you could start with having your husband spend the night, while you go out and spend it with a friend. A little mystery, your out, and the kids are in there home. GALing is so important for detachment. I haven't been feeling the greatest this week, so I forced myself out the last two nights and had a blast both nights. So rather than thinking I will be okay without my w, GALing makes me believe I will be okay.
As far as the "big card" goes, it seems like a tactic. You are focusing on your husband and something that may never happen or maybe it already is happening. Say they aren't dating and you really start to GAL, will he wonder if he is losing you? Will he want to be part of your fun. Who knows, but I think you will start finding yourself. Otherwise you are putting your life on hold. Regardless of what happens we all need to be moving forward, even if it is with baby steps. I feel like you are in a holding pattern waiting for your h to change the dynamics.
^^^I like.
Lil'G, a little quiet time on a long trip together is ok. Don't let it bother you if you're not talking much, and don't assume what he's thinking is the worst. Just be your normal new self, and avoid R talk. Keep it light and friendly. The goal is just to enjoy the outing, not "fix" anything.
This is where your new GAL activities come in handy... it gives you something you're excited about to discuss. You can bring up your plans for the future, but stuff you're actually into is more meaningful.
Hmmm. I would ask the super pro veterans to chime in. He asked you for a hug. That is not pursuit but maybe a good time for some rejection on your end.
I don't see how rejecting him will help bring them closer.
Mirror him. Give him the same type of hug he gives you. No more, no less.
Just my opinion. You're trying to break the distance/pursuit cycle right. Now he pursuits her and she rejects. I mean c'mon he is cheating on her. A veteran once told me you have to reject them more then they reject you.
Little if you're in CT I will suggest you making the trip to Philly for EE in May. It will help you in ways you can't imagine. I put it off for 1 year. What a dumbazz I was
PoN, tell me more about EE. What is so great about it? And, thanks for the advice about breaking the distance/pursuit cycle. I have now gone two days w/o hugs.
Thanks everyone for advice about visitation and about the car ride together today.
We did go together & the car ride out was good, I think. We talked off & on about this and that. I shared w him about the charity bike ride I am doing this summer. He seemed a little interested, although didn't really ask any questions.
I complimented him on a new sweater he was wearing. He politely said, "thank you." (WoA)
The party went fine-only one family of our BIL was there & the guys all drank too much (including my H). I had to drive home & talk was minimum--I tried to talk a little but then H turned up the radio which made it clear that he didn't want to talk.
He left to go his apartment as soon as we got back.
The thing is that this day could have been a "normal" day for us in the past. H acted "normal" at the party. Everyone there acted normal toward him/me...I don't know what I expect, but something about it just isn't right! He acts like himself to everybody except me, like he hasn't really changed at all EXCEPT HE HAS!
eyes, thank you for your post. You are right that GAL may help me to find myself. There is a MEETUP this Friday night I am thinking about-playing indoor tennis w a coed group. I haven't played in a while but used to play pretty well & I always enjoyed it. Maybe this could be a baby step for me.
EE is life changing and you if you need to change the dynamics of your life you would go. EE.org Enjoy the tip. It has forever changed me
Hey Turtle,you had asked about my sitch.....
Ruby
I think the tennis sounds great. H is always commenting on what a full, active life I lead and how he is proud of me (even though he knows it sounds weird...)
You need something to do that will allow the passion to shine through. When it does, it is unmistakable. I have a GAL that is fun and intensely rewarding on a personal and volunteer level. H sees how much I enjoy it and, for instance, drove out here (one hour) to take D to activity because I had gotten dates wrong for a certification level in my GAL.
So when you find something that you love, it shows
Even Tennis, which is beyond my capability.....
Turtle, find something that works for you and H regarding kids. How about a day? That gives you time to yourself.
Just recently had this convo with H, although mine are older. I confessed that I could not let D14 go (we had discussed him moving in here while I completed school in city) and she preferred the status quo, as it stands (me here), but H here and me in city would be a close second.
It was hard to look at the fact that I needed D rather than really looking at what was best for D. Although, I did tell H that if D had no preference, he could move here to develop relationship and I could move out for the year.
That being said, I also said he had to spend more time with them. And that I needed a break. So do you Turtle. No more defining yourself through your children, as we all do. I know you are deathly afraid of the loss of the "mother' role as well, but it won't happen. You need some time for you.
ruby,
You are absolutely right- I AM afraid of the loss of my "mother" role. I can't even begin to tell you how much my life revolves around my kids and how I have defined myself so much in this role.
I need to do this in baby steps though. SO, I am going to sign up for a meetup to play indoor tennis this coming weekend. New people, something I haven't done in eons and something I enjoy. No expectations except to have a little fun, and meet a few new people. Nothing scary about that, right? ...okay.
Thanks, guys!
On another note-boys & I went out and got all the "kitty stuff" we'll be needing soon. We are going to pick out a kitten from a litter of 10 at the beginning of next week. Again, we are all excited (and H clearly feels left out...oh well). Boys and I are having fun thinking of cat names- any suggestions?
I decided to make a "kitty door" (hole at the bottom of our basement door) so kitten's litter box can be in basement. H wasn't too excited about that at all. He also was a little taken aback that I was going to ask my neighbor friend to do this for me.
Okay, so I'm having a rough night. Reflecting on difficult things H said to me and that have happened since BD. I can't seem to get my mind off these things tonight.
I feel like I'll never get over H. We've been together 20 years. Most of my adult life. And his. I don't WANT to start over. I don't want to give up what we had. I can't let go.
Yet I know I need to.
Luckily most nights are not like tonight for me now. But, tonight is. And, part of it is my sadness for boys. S11 was having a sad night and needed lots of hugs and me to put him to bed 3 times then sit next to his bed to help him settle down.
S13 wanted me to sit next to his bed and hold his hand too. This has happened several times recently.
It makes me sad for them. For me. They need me. And I need them. But, they need their dad too. And, he is making an effort to them every day and interacting w them when he sees them (rather than just sitting on the couch and shutting out the world like he had been for the past year before he moved out).
I know this night will pass and I will probably be in a better place tomorrow, but it just sux after 8 months I can still feel so heartbroken and so "at the beginning."
COuld use some words of encouragement and advice how to get through times like this...I just wonder why I'm the one so "broken" now when I thought H was.
Sorry for my pity party.
Hmmm, was in same place yesterday for a while. I just let it ride for a bit, went for a run, exercise helps.
Get out of house for sure, that always helps.
I think you will find that the Tennis will help as well.
For me, Turtle, I know these days come, it's something H says, or does with GF that triggers it and I think "I could have done that, it could have been me", but it's not and I just ride it a bit because I know the feeling will go away and it takes time.
You probably have these moments less and less...look at LaBug and her Hs ring story. She is one of the strongest people on here and that little gesture dropped her. But she got up, like we all do, and those feelings fade...until the next time something triggers them.
But I think that one day, the trigger happens, and while you feel sad and melancholy, it doesn't drop you at all.
GTO, thinking about you. These times will come and go.
Sometimes getting out of the house, or being with people, or even exercise won't help. And that's okay. Allow the feelings to be.
I know how you feel. Why do you think I continued trying to save my M for three years? I was even willing to overcome one of the things I thought were deal breakers (the affair.) But think about this: your H is doing what he does bc it's all he knows what to do. He feels disconnected from you, his children, and probably himself. So send him love...This helped me.
Finally, take some action:
1) Get out the role of the abandoned one. Don't feel like a victim anymore.
2) GAL-seriously, not just the sports in the weekend, but something really different.
3) Reach out. Connect with other people--new people.
4) Write down your 180's and put them into practice. Ask yourself how you can be a better person/wife.
(((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))
Little do you journal on paper? Do you have a true support system. What are you going to do to change the dynamics of your life?
I can't remember where I was reading this or if it was my IC last night, but I keep telling myself each day, that I'm not broken! I refuse to be a victim! H is the one missing out. Im enough for someone. I'm great!
I know that no matter what happens, I will always love H. It's just a fact. Some days suck, but I have to believe that each day I chose to move forward & try to enjoy the moment or be sad in the moment will bring me closer to moving in from this pain.
I do think that the time without my kids helps with that. I just have to be me. Not a mom, not a wife, me. Happy, sad, angry, me.
I hope today is better for you!
Thanks for posting, Tori, PoN, ruby & Tallula,
Tori- How do I show love but still detach? The lovingly detach is such a confusing concept to me. If I am loving I don't detach, if I detach he perceives me as cold.
Well, I did it. I signed up for my first meetup ever. Tennis & social hour. I am a little nervous, but excited to do something new with new people. Just for me.
How do I tell H I am doing something, but when he's asks, "what & with whom?" (which he will) how do I answer honestly but still remain mysterious?
My two youngest sons had a C session today (2nd one). I talked to the C afterwards & she said how verbal S9 is & that when she talked to him about feelings he mentioned me a lot (positively) and didn't mention H at all.
S11 has had two very difficult days, including today at school (was sent to asst principal for being passive agressive and not doing what the teacher repeatedly asked him to do).
Sorry, had to cut off last post. H just called which he NEVER has done at 11:00 at night after boys have gone to bed.
First of all his sister called him and then I called her today. She found out last night she has breast cancer. Will start chemo at beginning of March. Very sad.
H called to ask what the name of the type of cancer she has is as he forgot. Told him & then we got to talking about boys and that 2/3 of them had difficult nights tonight.
He said he's tired of me making him feel like their behaviors at night (when he's not here) are completely his fault. I don't think I do this...I feel like I just try to tell him what's going on with the boys, b/c he asked me to.
Somehow we got onto other "old" topics like how the boys' schedules are just too busy like always (this is a sore spot for H as he feels he has to do most of the shlepping around). I validated his feelings.
ANother "old" beef of his was that he feels he spends "more time than most dads spend w their kids & still does." I validated but said that the boys only know their dad, not others, so his absence at night is still something they are adjusting to. (In reference to the boys having issues at night.)
Finally, one last thing he brought up was how he didn't get enough time for himself and when he did I always complained (like how long he would be gone to go to the gym). Something I've apologized for um-teen times. He recognized my change about this last SPring (before BD even) but said it had been "years" of my complaining. I tried to validate, but said I had recognized my shortcoming of not recognizing his need for time and space w/o my complaints.
Finally he said "People may think that my moving out is all my fault but it was a two-way street." I felt compelled to point out that his moving out was his decision not mine but that I take ownership in some of the problems that caused our R to suffer.
The conversation was stressful and he cut it off at that point saying he didn't call to talk about "these things" and so he was going to go. Instead of just saying "okay" I got upset and can't even remember what I said before we both hung up.
It was a backslide, I know. But, how much further can I slide from the bottom???
Not feeling good about my lack of control over my emotions in our conversation.
It'll happen, you're still early in this. Practice everyday recognizing your emotions and riding them out, letting them pass through you. You have a lot of bottled up stuff inside that bubbles out.
I started by doing a meditation called Ride the Wild Horse and that helped, then I moved on to other meditations. I was a crier, which really drove my H crazy and me, too because I felt out of control.
I feel like I control my emotions now, my emotions don't control me.
Another thing,
He said he's tired of me making him feel like their behaviors at night (when he's not here) are completely his fault.
You can't make him feel anything, if he didn't have some guilt in there he'd be fine. But, I'm not sure a litany of what went on in the evenings will get your desired result. As much as you want him to see, he's going to close his eyes, put his fingers in his ears, while repeating lalalalalala. Don't get drawn into that, he can't/won't be your support right now. Find that elsewhere.
and maybe one more...
Are your boys too busy? That constant "have to be somewhere" puts a lot of stress on an intact family, so it's really stressful for a broken family. Are there things you can cut out?
Little it is a backslide but please don't beat yourself up over it. Also you are spot on with apologies. In the future you apologize ONCE and ask yourself for forgiveness and the good lord and move on. Do not keep apologizing for stuff. You apologize and now it is on him. Ok?
Take the above experience ^^^ you speak about as just that. Experience.
What did talking about relationship stuff get you? Nothing. If anything more anxiety.
I can see your husband feeling guilted and/or manipulated about you bringing up the kids behaviors. I know my W did. Try not to do this. I think he knows it [censored].
You need to focus on yourself ONLY. Start doing work on yourself. Take care of yourself. Can your husband take the kids from Thursday to Monday so you can goto EE? I think you need this more then you know. Don't let yourself go a year plus like I did without truly doing your work.
Thanks, PoN & labug.
After I talked to H & vented here my B called & we talked for about an hour. He has been D. His exW had an EA although he takes equal blame in the end of their M, so he can relate a bit to what I'm going through.
I ended up emailing H FOR ME. I wanted to apologize for the things that were brought up in our conversation last night. Although I've apologized for them before he obviously hasn't forgiven me for them.
I also offered "to be there for him" if he'd let me concerning his sister & her diagnosis w breast cancer. He won't let me, I know, but I just needed him to hear that from me.
I haven't even checked if he responded to my email (which he probably hasn't) b/c I sincerely sent it for me. I felt better. I don't need him to validate his acceptance or even his receiving the email.
I don't tell him about the boys' behaviors/sadness at night to "dump on him", rather he ASKED me to keep him informed of any new/different behaviors. BUT, I think I'm done doing that unless something extreme comes up.
You're right, PoN, I don't make him feel anything. He feels the guilt/blame b/c he deep down inside KNOWS that the behaviors that the boys are showing are at least in part (if not completely) due to his absence from our home.
labug, yes our boys' schedules are busy, but not any more busy than in comparison to all of their friends/our friends' kids. I feel great that they have the opportunity to experience lots of things that they will be glad to have done as they get older.
When you have 3 boys time 2 or 3 activities a week (& some are twice a week) that pretty much takes up every day. Add my C, their C, H's C, the gym, homework, etc & time does just seem to melt away. As long as they enjoy the activities and are keeping up w their schoolwork I see no reason not to let them continue.
H sees things differently. He is a jock, so for him sports is #1 for them. So, Im sure he would be glad to see them give up instrument lessons or boy scouts/cub scouts (S11 & S9).
It is all a balancing act, I know. Now I need to GAL ????? LOL!!! Why not throw that into the schedule too.
That's a lot to keep up with. I was more of a one outside activity per kid because I wanted to preserve my sanity and I think down time is important for everyone. I'm still that way, I need quiet time to recharge.
Everyone is different but there seems to be a need to feel every hour with something and wee lose focus on the important things.
Do you feel that you're overworked, overscheduled? Is this a valid complaint from H?
Most great parents have terrible marriages
Most terrible parents have great marriages
My H says I am overscheduled. I really started to look at this. I like to have my days planned. Playgroups this day, instruct fitness class this day, yoga this day, craft hour, naps, game nights, dinner with these friends, such & such race this day. What...it's too much H?
I grew up in year round sports, danced until I was 16, was president of my class, then student council, sang in a select choir, did plays, had a part-time job, did AP classes all at a private school while carrying a 4.2 GPA and had many volunteer activites. H played football.
Yeah, to me, that's life. To him, how am I enjoying anything. There is a middle ground. Last weekend was scary. I only had saturday evening planned. And...I enjoyed it!! There is merit to my H's concerns. I don't want to busy myself right out of moments. I also dont want to just lay on the couch and watch TV. There is a middle ground and I'm finding it.
I would encourage you to look at that too. Just look. Get some alone time for you. You have NONE!
Tallula, I do have time alone-every night after the boys go to bed from 9:30 on (and I don't usu. go to bed until midnight these days). I'm usually on here reading and sometimes posting.
GALs this weekend-Fri night I'm hoping to go out w a GF and Sat night I have my first meetup-indoor tennis and social afterwards. I am excited but a little nervous too.
Then Mon & Tues are school holidays & boys & I are going to pick out our kitty!
Feeling better today. ONly saw H for 1 min when he brought 2 younger boys home. Tomorrow will barely see him too. That is good for me right now. That's probably why I'm feeling better today.
Ran into a "mom friend" that knows about my sitch (long story WHY she knows) & I said I'd love to get together w her sometime soon to talk. She went through a D a year ago although she was the WAS, so I'd love to hear her perspective.
Yay for the tennis! Me time from 9:30 on my a$$!!!
That's just breathing time. We mean REAL me time.....
Ok, thanks for the kick, ruby! I know what you all meant...thought I could slide that by!
I'm working on it.
I've been told gym time counts, and I go every other day (although for me it isn't social). It is for ME, though.
I hate that Vday is tomorrow, but I'm looking forward to showing my boys how much I love them (and then getting our kitty). Last Vday suxed too, so this shouldn't be any worse. (Our family went out to dinner together & H hadn't gotten me anything so he took me to a jewelry story, told me to pick out a bead for a bracelet I have then LEFT ME TO PICK IT OUT & PAY FOR IT. He was in a pi$$y mood all night. NO intimacy either. Now in retrospect it makes sense why--he was "newly" in love w OW.
Lets make a pact not to say the V word, okay???? :p
All I can say is "survived the day."
Quick visit w H. He noticed I put "Me going out" on calendar Fri & Sat nite. He had issues w this..."both nights?" Where are you doing?"
I said, "GOing out w GF Friday night."
H- "What about Sat?" I said, "Just going out." He got very pi$$y and said,"So you're going to keep this a secret? I hate when you do this!"
I said," I'd be happy to tell you," but by then he was mad I didn't tell him right away. Don't know why he cares WHAT I'm doing. Said he didn't have to stay w boys both nights, as I'd be home in time to put them to bed. He said, "Fine." then left.
After he left I found out GAL tennis got cancelled.
I have a question that I'd like some thought about. H says he is "in love" w OW (for about a year now). They are in an EA. He says he will let me know if they start dating (which I think he will, but not 100% sure). I know if they start a PA he thinks we are done (he's said this at BD).
But, he moved out 3 1/2 months ago & communicates w her daily at work and at his apartment. She is D (I think it's final) but still living w eX as they are stuck until house is sold.
Question-- WHY hasn't this EA moved to dating or a PA??? (I know there IS a possibility it has & I don't know, but I don't think it has.) WTF are they waiting for??? After all they are in love, he moved out & she is D. Any thoughts???
Does it matter? Does it affect the work you have to do? I know we all want to create signs out of their behavior but that's a dead end.
Don't let his anger bully you.
GTO, I just meant that you don't get a ton of time away from the kids. Even at night, it just doesn't feel the same to me. I have that to..although I still pass out on the couch at like 9 these days! I'm hoping the 2 ndctrimester energy kicks in soon
some nights I make it 11. I relate to you alot, and just think you'd benefit from some downtime
My H would do the same thing if he asked and I withheld what I was doing. Now I just say I have plans, if he asks I tell him.
Who knows why your H hasn't PA. We won't figure it out. I say just take it at face value & keep doing what you are. Working on you.
GTO, if he tells you he is in love w the OW is bc he's not sure of it. He's looking for a reaction. I think it's very likely this is not an EA only anymore, though...Sorry, but that's my impression. If it has remained an EA, then it's bc he's ambivalent and unsure of leaving the M. Especially if he said that he'd be done if the EA turned into a PA.
I'm not inside your H's head to know what he's thinking, and you're not either. So ask yourself if you want to save your M. If your answer is yes, then continue the GALing, etc. Continue sending him love (not telling him.) The best way to send him love is to let him be. Let him follow whatever path he feels it's best for him. Release the need to fight this. As soon as you do this, he'll feel the lack of pressure and might start approaching you in a more positive manner.
Hang in there, my friend.
I think H may be unsure as well. Sometimes saying things outloud makes us believe it, don't you find?
The lack of pressure is a good thing...something I should work on.
My H is a little freaky if I don't come absolutely clean with activities as well. Weird...I make it a point never to ask about his, except if he volunteers info. Like he went to a movie, so I asked How was the movie? He said great movie great night....didn't get much sleep. So, I gotta quit asking these things lol!! Because he always volunteers more than I want.
If he asks, I try to say without specifics, but if he asks for specifics I tell him. Don't know why he needs to know, he just does and frankly it does not bother me. I just don't volunteer
Thanks, labug,ruby, Tallula & Tori!
I knew someone would pipe up that it doesn't matter WHY/IF H is in a PA now or not. But it does to me.
Tori, you are right that it might already be happening, but something just tells me it hasn't. Somehow in his head he doesn't think he's done anything "wrong/cheated" if he hasn't had sex w OW. The EA is at least as bad, if not worse, in my mind.
I DO still want to save my M. I don't think I'm being as positive w H as I need to be in the brief encounters we have. I try but it is SO hard when I get absolutely NOTHING in return.
Hugs have completely stopped now.
Today H said he wanted to ask me something- he asked me to "reconsider" letting the boys stay overnight at his aptmt. He said he feels like his is "losing them." And, he also said he feels like a "visitor" at our house now. (After 18 years of living here and only 3 1/2 mos. gone he already feels like a visitor?!)
I said, "That's sad you feel like a visitor here."
And, concerning the boys visiting his aptmt I just said, "I would like to see your aptmt first before they go there."
When he asked why (a bit defensively, like he didn't want me stepping foot in his precious space), I just said it would make me feel more comfortable knowing where the boys are & seeing it in my head. He didn't agree or disagree to this condition.
It may happen tomorrow night as I am going out w a GF and H doesn't want to hang out here all night.
I was thinking of you, Tallula, as your kids had their first overnight with their dad recently & you survived! And, my kids are older. S11 has a sleepover at a friend's house, so it would be the other two.
I think I am okay with this--at least as okay as I'll ever be.
What are you afraid might happen if they stay with their Dad? Did you trust them with him before?
I knew someone would pipe up that it doesn't matter WHY/IF H is in a PA now or not. But it does to me.
Does that mean a PA is a deal breaker for you ?
Well, tonight I dropped them off at H's and haven't cried once!!! I'm kind of shocked! Went to dinner with my friend & got pedi's.
Now I'm getting ready to watch a movie.
I say give it a try. It will be really hard at first, but it's not horrible. Dare I admit it...I'm looking forward to my time alone... Don't call the bad mom police
My sponcer is a divorced mom of 3, and had told me to embrace the moments I enjoy just being Tallula. That it doesn't mean I'm a bad mom, I had these beautiful babies and made them my life! It's ok to enjoy me again. Now tomorrow morning I could be sobbing, but I
Didn't cry walking down the stairs of H's apartment. Big!
I can already see H has really stepped up more as a dad. I hung out while he made dinner. Double take...made dinner?!?! Now, it was Mac n cheese and hit dogs (I'm a bit of a no processed food, make everything from scratch or from the garden, cloth diaper, composter...yep), but I just enjoyed a nice conversation with H and left as they sat down to eat.
Yes, I survived that first weekend, and this one looks even better. You can do this!!
What are you afraid might happen if they stay with their Dad? Did you trust them with him before?
I knew someone would pipe up that it doesn't matter WHY/IF H is in a PA now or not. But it does to me.
Does that mean a PA is a deal breaker for you ?
Yea, what labug said.
Also, I meant just take it that he hasnt made it a PA yet and go from there. None of us will know the real reason why he hasn't.
I DO trust their dad with them. He has also been a better dad since he's moved out than he'd been in a long time. BUT, it also feels like he "clocks in and clocks out." In other words it seems as though he puts in quality time knowing he only has to do it for a set amount of time.
My fear of kids going to H's apartment is selfish. I don't want to give them up to him AT ALL. I feel like he gave that up when he moved out. But, the truth is he didn't, he just gave up on us.
I want them to have a good R with their dad, so I know I need to let them be with him out of the house and be okay with it (more than just an outing, as he would often do this in the past).
I can do this...I know I can!
As far is a PA a deal breaker? Well, I used to think it definitely was. NOw I'm not 100%, but the answer is maybe it is. And, I do think he will file for D if it turns physical. We'll see.
A) I get the kid thing Turtle, trust me. You know I know exactly why;). It is dark and selfish but I get it and I know you recognize it too. But you will enjoy the to e, trust me, it will make you a better mom.
By all means go see Hs space, I feel that is very valid.
PA was not deal breaker for me,either. Thought it would be...not so much.
Yea, the day before BD I would have said it was a deal breaker. Much less a confession of multiple PAs. Honestly, it's the one that turned into an EA too that kills me the most.
Plus, your H is saying it's over if, and he doesn't really know. My H was set on a D. Now he's not at all. You just never know. They are totally confused.
I get it, too. For me (and my sons are much older) I was also jealous that they got to have an R with their Dad and I didn't. There's probably lots of stuff swirling around in your head that you could dig through.
The clock in/clock out is mindreading. Is that helpful to you or does it just fuel your anger.
I differ from Ruby in that I wouldn't ask to see his place because it sends the message you don't trust him although you say you do. Is this a theme in your R? Have you thought that your mothering is better than his fathering? It happens, I think many of us think that at some time or another but it's not fair and it results in damaging your R with your H and his R with his kids. Just because we think something is "right" doesn't make it so.
But, the truth is he didn't, he just gave up on us.
I said and thought this many times but I think we should all remove it from our mental tape recorder. It keeps us stuck and it makes it all about him. For most of us our S didn't suddenly wake up one day and say "Today I'm going to turn my family's life upside down." They were unhappy for a while and probably tried to tell us but because we were busy, we didn't listen and when we did listen, we didn't hear. Then they became lonely in the marriage and decided to look for something or someone to take that feeling away.
This is not an excuse, just a view from their side and I know it's the truth in my marriage. It's taken me a long time to be able to think about that and not cringe because of my mistakes.
Let your H develop his R with his boys, they're all coming to the age when a Dad is so important. And so what if they sleep on the floor, or wear the same clothes for 2 days or have hot dogs for dinner.
I differ from Ruby in that I wouldn't ask to see his place because it sends the message you don't trust him although you say you do. Is this a theme in your R? Have you thought that your mothering is better than his fathering? It happens, I think many of us think that at some time or another but it's not fair and it results in damaging your R with your H and his R with his kids. Just because we think something is "right" doesn't make it so.
Let your H develop his R with his boys, they're all coming to the age when a Dad is so important. And so what if they sleep on the floor, or wear the same clothes for 2 days or have hot dogs for dinner.
I was thinking the same thing. I really did impede my H's R with the kids. He now says, not really just that we are a good team, but I could/can back off alot. I know my H would have viewed me asking to see his apartment before/if I'd let the kids over as controlling and untrusting. The first time I layed eyes on it was when I dropped them off.
My suggestion would be to just call him and tell him they can stay there. You should definately drop off or pick up, but show some trust. Withholding the visit until you approve if the apartment does come off as not trusting his judgement.