Hi, I been lurking these forums and reading about other people's issues :(, we all sound so alike.
Her is my story
H-36 (ME)
W-34
M-15 years
3kids
S8
S5
S1
On 9/17/2012
Wife gave me the I love you but not in love you with speech. She did this after i approached her about making our marriage better. I noticed over the last year things have been slowly getting worst (she would nag about everything i do). When I tried to talked to her, it open up a can of worms. She did a 180 on me. Gave me the speech of a typical WAW. She also told me she reached out to her old boyfriend (the day before i talked to her). This started an EA. Of course like any emotional H, i did all the wrong things (beg, plead, yell, scream, threaten, expose the Affair). Since then she stopped contacting the OM but i know she still wants to be with him (she just won't admit it but she won't deny it).
Its been about 3 week since she stopped contacting the OM but our relationship isn't getting any better. I have already started on the GAL and detach phase. Bonding with my children and trying to appease her love language (acts of service). I know i neglected her feelings over the years but never realized just how bad it was. But she even tells me its all the little things i ignored (things i know i can change). But you know "too little to late" speech.
No physical contact with her, we don't sleep in the same bed, but we are still in the same house. Her wedding ring is off but she wears another ring on her middle finger (its an old ring she bought during our marriage). I do not talk about our R unless she talks about it.
Lastly our in-laws have lived with us for the past 8 years, helping to take care of the children. Part of her compliant about me is the lack of respect i have with her in-laws. Don't get me wrong, i like them but I never felt like i disrespected them like she tells me. I know having in-laws living with us, complicates things alot. Her Parents are totallly against her on this decision because they believe I am good and we can work out the issues.
Fast foward to our Current state.
-W wants to seperate but she also mentioned Divorce. I told her, I am not abandoning the house. Since then she hasn't mentioned it but i know she wants her space/time.
-W says she is pissed at me for exposing the Affair, not sure if she can forgive me
-W says at one point she did want to work on saving the marriage but i pushed her into this direction because how i exposed the Affair (not sure if this is true)
-W hates me for turning her parents against her. I didn't do it, they live with me, they will ask questions about our R. But she can't see her own parents being pissed about this because its not the best decision for the kids.
-W has repeated in the past about being with the OM, calling him her "soulmate"
Most recent discussion about R
W wanted to talk about custody of the kids. I proposed since she wants to leave, i should stay in the house and kids will stay with me M-F (my job is flexible), Friday night she can pick them up and drop them off Sunday night. I am opposed to every other week or 2 days here, then 3 days there, then 2 days here. I want to give our kids the most stable environment, while it seems like she wants to be fair on how often she gets to see them. We both work, but like i said, i am most flexible in my job(i can work from home to watch our youngest). I also told her, she could take them M-F and I take them on weekends.
I told her, i needed time to think about this (weeks) because right now, the pain of not seeing the kids 24/7 is killing me. I already @ peace that she may never come back to me as a W, but the kids...i love my kids so much and my W(but i know i can make someone else happy one day, just wished it was her)
Question
How do i handle the discussion of kids custody? Do i stick to my guns about the schedule since i feel its best for the kids?
Do I seperate my funds? Or wait till she makes the 1st move on seperating funds? I make the majority of the income.
Did exposing the Affair really force me to lose my last chance?
I am in it for the long hall, i do not want to abandon the marriage and I am ready for the emotional roller coaster ride. I already cried my eyes out for the last month (secretly). I read alot of books, read alot of forums.
Lastly, this really [censored]. Never in a million years, i thought this would happen to me. I imagined growing old with W...
Another question. As for GAL.
I am preparing myself to be alot more involved with my kids. Preparing myself when i need to watch the 3 boys myself.
When i take them out, should i ask her if she would like to join us? Or just simply tell her, i am taking them out and not ask if she wants to join us?
Really? lostsoul13, that's the name you picked? Holy crap that is depressing...was bleedingbrokenheart taken? Just kidding man, youu're going to need to find humor when and where you can for this...FYI, I'm calling you LS13.
Fast foward to our Current state.
-W wants to seperate but she also mentioned Divorce. I told her, I am not abandoning the house. Since then she hasn't mentioned it but i know she wants her space/time.
-W says she is pissed at me for exposing the Affair, not sure if she can forgive me
-W says at one point she did want to work on saving the marriage but i pushed her into this direction because how i exposed the Affair (not sure if this is true)
-W hates me for turning her parents against her. I didn't do it, they live with me, they will ask questions about our R. But she can't see her own parents being pissed about this because its not the best decision for the kids.
-W has repeated in the past about being with the OM, calling him her "soulmate"
Ok here is the good news, all of us heard this crap before.
Point 1 ) Not leaving the house. Good for you. Do not waver on this one.
Point 2 ) Upset about exposing the affair and not sure if she can...yadda yadda yadda... Yeah my wife said the same thing. Like somehow telling people about it is worse than actually boinking someone outside the marriage. People will think I'm an adulterer...uhhh...yeah...you are. 6-7 years later depending on how you look at it (the WAS aren't the only ones who rewrite history...if you're smart you'll figure that out too) My wife and I are stronger and better than ever.
PS - I do not advocate exposong the affair. But since it happened it's like trying to put a cat back into a bag after you hit the bag and cat with a stick a dozen times...good luck.
Point 3 ) I would have wanted to work on the marriage but since you exposed....phhhhhhhpth....guilt talk. See above, she is trying to shift the blame to you.
AND look you are not clean inthe failure of the marriage, if you think the failure is all on her...you won't do well here. You better chop chop figure out your part in it. But do not LET her shift all of this on to you exposing the affair. That is BS, is is just a convienient excuse for her now.
Point 4 ) Her parents. Did you turn them on her? Yeah...you did. You exposed the affair. You interuppted her plans, which might have invloved a much slower introduction of this douche bag...and them coming to like him over time. But the reality is also that if she had been the one to tell them right now thye wouldn't have been on her side either. You screwed up her plan...that is all.
Now comes the hard part. STOP involving them with any of this between you and her.
Seriously man, do not involve them, this will bite you in the asss in the long run.
Point 4 ) Soul mate...yeah... Did she ever call you her soul mate? Betting she did once...a few times? Even if she didn't?
F Soul Mates... Holywood needs to be kicked in the junk for making this craptastic term up.
You can do this man, you have alot of reasons not to give up, and believe you me, giving up is EASIER. But that's not what you said when you were married, you didn't say:
I will love honor and (whatever) as long as it is easy.
This is now the hard part of the vow you took, to her in front of your friends and family and God.
Got it?
Exposing the affair was due to another forum advice i received. I come to the conclusion, it was too aggressive.
I only exposed the A to the in-laws because they kept asking and since they lived with us, they already knew we had big issues. Her dad guessed it was OM. Then they told their sons....which of course i get blamed for it because when the sons found out, i asked them a question if i was terriable to their sister.
I stopped involving them, but I can't stop them from being their parent to her, after all they do live with us. I already asked them to stop talking about this.
I know the failure was on my end with the marriage but i also realized its not me committing the A. She had a choice to do it or not.
How about the other 2 questions
Question
How do i handle the discussion of kids custody? Do i stick to my guns about the schedule since i feel its best for the kids?
Do I seperate my funds? Or wait till she makes the 1st move on seperating funds? I make the majority of the income.
Thanks Jack3B
I picked lostsoul because for the 1st month, i was a lost, i lost my identity, lost my emotions, lost my sanity, well you get the point
Hi LS13...sorry you are here. But its the best place to be for this sh!tty situation we find ourselves in.
Listen to j3b....I am his biggest fan (i am sure he has heard that before from many). This man knows his sh!t.
Post often....
Busting
Wife gave me the I love you but not in love you with speech. She did this after i approached her about making our marriage better. I noticed over the last year things have been slowly getting worst (she would nag about everything i do).
Wow, that's nearly a carbon copy of how it went down for me.
Its been about 3 week since she stopped contacting the OM but our relationship isn't getting any better. I have already started on the GAL and detach phase. Bonding with my children and trying to appease her love language (acts of service). I know i neglected her feelings over the years but never realized just how bad it was.
All that sounds good, just understand that it takes lots of time for your W to believe in your 180's. Months. At first she'll think it's just a trick and that if she opens up her heart to you again you'll go right back to your old ways. So stick to your 180's and give it time. Right now she's thinking "too little too late" as you said. But don't let that concern you, she IS noticing.
No physical contact with her, we don't sleep in the same bed, but we are still in the same house. Her wedding ring is off but she wears another ring on her middle finger (its an old ring she bought during our marriage).
Fast foward to our Current state.
-W wants to seperate but she also mentioned Divorce.
Yeah, it sounds like she's one foot out the door. It's pretty common for the WAS to throw around D a lot early on, but often they drop it if the pressure is removed through DB'ing. S is another matter, usually when they get to the point where your W is then S could very well be her next step.
I told her, I am not abandoning the house.
Good. She needs to suffer the consequences of her decisions, and if she decides on S, then she needs to feel the discomfort of finding a place, moving stuff, setting up bills, etc.
-W says she is pissed at me for exposing the Affair, not sure if she can forgive me
Script. They always have something "unforgivable" they blame the LBS for.
-W says at one point she did want to work on saving the marriage but i pushed her into this direction because how i exposed the Affair (not sure if this is true)
Sounds like she's trying to lay a guilt trip on you.
-W hates me for turning her parents against her.
Of course you didn't do this, she did. But be prepared, you are going to receive the blame for every thing wrong in her life from a flat tire on her car to someone putting ketchup on her hamburger at lunch.
How do i handle the discussion of kids custody? Do i stick to my guns about the schedule since i feel its best for the kids?
Keep an open mind. This is really something the two of you need to work out together. "Sticking to your guns" may result in an ugly, expensive custody battle.
Do I seperate my funds? Or wait till she makes the 1st move on seperating funds? I make the majority of the income.
Boy that's a tough one. I didn't have to deal with it since we always maintained separate accounts. I think most here would tell you to do it. But it could make her really angry. My inclination would be to wait until she brings up S again and then use that as an opportunity to say "OK, since you're planning on that I'm going to go ahead and split the accounts so we can each focus on our own bills" or something like that.
Did exposing the Affair really force me to lose my last chance?
No. Learn not to focus on what she says, you're probably going to hear worse before it gets better. One of the DB 180 tips:
"Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared."
F Soul Mates... Holywood needs to be kicked in the junk for making this craptastic term up.
ROTFLOL!! This reminds me of something my MC said, I think it was in the movie Jerry McGuire where Tom Cruise said "You complete me." She said she groaned out loud in the theater when she heard it, it totally flies in the face of modern counseling- this idea that one person cannot be complete without another
Hi, LD13,
You've got some great Vets giving you advice here, in my opinion.
I'll add my 2 cents since our sitchs are somewhat similar.
My H is moving out soon but we are NOT separating our accounts--I wouldn't advise initiating this conversation. Since you make more $$ she may be happy w keeping joint accounts for now.
My H is having an EA with OW at work. Currently they are on a semi-break (NC outside of work, which is new as of 2 weeks ago). I think you & I both would be naive to think that the OP is out of the picture by a long shot.
About the kids- I have 3 boys & they are going to live with me only (H is setting up own little aptmt where boys are NOT visiting). H will visit in our home. I think you should hear her out about her opinion about kid visitations BUT you seem to have the kids' best interest in mind--she will have HER best interest in mind, so continue to lovingly stick to your convictions about what is best for THEM.
-Only my 2 cents (maybe 5)!
LS13,
Welcome to the boards, sorry you find yourself here but you will get good support here.
My sitch is almost like yours, my W got involved with old friend, turned to EA, I exposed the A to SIL and my sister and my mom. Exposing to her sister not too bad, but with my mom and sis I'm regretting but what can I do it's done now. I did it out of anger then.
For your kids be as amicable as possible, you don't want to be fighting about them now. So to be clear, what you're proposing is that you won't have the kids on the weekends? Are you sure you want that? Consider the long term when the kids start to go to school M-F. Then you would want some weekends with them, IMO.
Exposing the A is not your last chance, although I'm not advocating exposing the affair. She will blame you anyways on a lot of things just focus on yourself and kids and your 180s.
Regarding your funds, IMO you should separate.
Good luck keep posting.
Newman
Hi LS13, sorry that u find urself here but these boards provide a great comfort.
I am pretty new to all this myself and as such cannot offer u much advice other than patience. This has been my biggest downfall to date. U will need bucketloads of patience. Read the 37 db rules and stick with them (these are gospel). The other essential piece of advice someone gave me is to accept that your old W and M are done. Your W has changed does not want ur old M and neither shld u. the quicker u accept that the better - again learning from my own mistakes with this one.
Re the money sitch please think and tread carefully. We had always had joint bank accounts but W wanted her independence and oown money. We are in the process of S finances now but I agree with other posters that it cld spark a lot of anger in W so be prepared esp if she wld lose out financially. Only u know what's right for ur sitch but my W seems so deep in a fog I can't trust her with our joint funds.
Anyway all the best
Thanks everybody for the shoulder.
For the kids I am trying to do what is right for them, not for me or her. If I can't see them on the weekends, then so be it. If its going to provide them stability, then I will deal with it.
I do not find of every other week or 2/3/2 schedule. Acceptable because it doesn't provide alot of stability for the kids. Plus based on our work schedules, she isn't that flexible. She wants me to sacrifice all my time to watch the kids during the day and then leave as soon as she gets back. I am not doing that either because she thinks it's going to be that simple in her new life. She thinks one of our parents will help.
She doesn't realize my parents, nor her parents will help anymore because they don't want to be stuck in the middle. They disagree separating is the best decision, they disagree with her that I am a terrible husband. They all know it's the OM who has her in this fog.
Yesterday
We took the kids out. She was okay. We didn't talk much, kept it to business. I wanted to hold her. It felt so weird to be constantly cold. Didn't argue, didn't discuss R. I had a good time with the kids.
At least she didn't talk about splitting or divorce or custody...
Update:
I decides to be my W best friend in this and continue my 180 as a person who is chasing a GF to date.
She feels much better and we have been talking like normal, except no physical contact.
Hardest thing I am doing now....i realized I need to GAL but also I am doing my W the best thing for my wife. To be there for her new life.
I helped her file D papers, she says if something happens we don't have to sign it. of course I have hope without expectations. I told her if we finalize this, I need along time away from her.
She also is giving me physical custody of the kids because I won't deny her kids.
In the end, I decided to not fight the flow but to help it, be there for her like when we got married. Whatever happens, happens. I really love her and want her to be happy.
Some may call me a doormat..but I know my wife is a great women and I appreciated all those years she gave me. I won't ever lose the memories I had with her. I wish we can create more and we will just not as husband and wife.
I hope to keep journaling this because I know there will be days ita hard to look at my wife(now my best friend) and continue to see how beautiful she is.
Everybody makes mistakes but I refuse to drown myself in dispair. I want what's best for kids and her.
Thanks to the people who commented. Sorry for the grammar, wrote this on my phone.
Journaling
My W is beginning her name change process, since her driver license is set to renew. Hurts to hear this....makes me think their is no hope.
Oh well another pain to deal with. Time will heal it.
Original she was going to buy another house but then she decided to rent(I suggested it) but I guess renting is a good sign vs buying. So helping her in this process. It's kind of hard to hear her say financially it's going to hit her. She makes good money but at the same time, paying for rent, insurance, health care, utilities are coming to reality but I know this isn't a show stopper for her.
I still don't know how the W can tell our 3 kids, that she is leaving the family. As a man, it's hard enough to see the impact on kids but she thinks it's going to be okay for them. This is the part that makes me mad because she is living without really trying because I had flaws that can be fixed, communication can improve and I can met her needs, but she is leaving for a guy she barely knows (she says, she isn't but it's hard to believe this)
I Don't beat myself over this but I was never abusive, I provided for the family. The only criticism I had was work was a priority for me but 2 months ago I took a new position (less stress, less work) and I could pay attention to the kids more (but I had compliments from other friends, who said why can't they be more like me with kids). I just don't get why she won't try after this life changing event because I know our marriage will be better.
She told me a few days ago, she was confused about her love for me. Like maybe it was family love not "love" but how can you be with someone for 15 years with 3 boys and confused about love?
Ya I know, don't believe everything they say.....
Oh well, our life was almost perfect. About to pay our house off (no other debt). She could of retired at age of 34 and pursue her other dreams (baking). So many good things could of happen but she choose this path and I have to respect it. I just feel so bad for our 3 boys...so young, they are so happy now.
Journaling
My W finallly told her parents about our decision. Of course they don't necessary agree with it, but I am kind of mad that they suggested, I move out and it would be easier for W.
Yes, i admitted my mistakes
Yes, I want to fix the marriage
YEs, I want to be a better person
No, I am not the one who wants to leave
So i don't get it, why they suggested I move out. Anybody in this situation that actually moved out (has kids), when there wife wanted to leave?
Journaling
Today we talked about custody of kids and based on the best interest for kids.
M-F I get the kids due to my flexible job and willing to Stop my career growth.
W picks kids up Friday and drops them off Sunday.
Here is the catch...she wants to visit them anytime during M-F and cook for them. Which is odd to me, can't complain, it allows me to interact with her.
However she also proposed to alternate weekends. Which I then replied "no, I will not alternate weekends because I get them M-F and I want the mom to spend as much time as possible with the kids. She says she needs some weekends to get out.
These boys are 8,5, and 1. They don't need parents that want to have a single life...I know having your own free time is important but am I selfish in thinking with kids so young, it's important that each parent spend as much time with kids equally. I felt like she was giving me a 70/30 custody.
Abandoning 3 kids at such a young age and then telling me she doesn't always want the kids on weekends.......
Am I crazy?
Journaling
Last night, W and I had a really great conversation. We laughed and for a brief few minutes i felt a little passion between us (i felt like a little kid who had a crush). There was tension (even if it was small) but our kids interrupted. But for that 15-20 minutes we couldn't stop talking to each other, she had a great smile. It almost reminded me of our times in college.
We both agreed to go out on a date (drink and late night snack) for later.
I have to tell you, even though it seems like things are getting better, I have to keep telling myself "Hope without expectations".
It was easy detatching myself when she was cold to me, but now with her opening up again its making this harder for me to detatch. Since last night, i can't stop thinking of good thoughts about her. I may be setting myself up for more hurt because I still don't know her true intentions of being the way she was last night.
Is it because, I agreed to let her go (let her move out), told her I will always be there to help her when she leaves, helping her file papers.
Or is because she is slowly coming out of the fog? She is of course still planning on moving out and filing papers.
Or is it because she is having a guilt trip about hurting me and the family?
I wasnt prepared to have her fill my love tank....She may be doing it without noticing it. My love tank was half empty, but now its more than slightly half full.
Right now, I just keep telling myself "Hope without expectations" and continue to follow DB rules but its hard when she is filling my love tank (either purposely or un-purposely).
Journal
How fast your hopes gets crushed...W just said might visit the other man this Dec.....
It hurts so bad. I know she is being honest about it but to hear those words, it stabs me in my heart to know, the person i love wants to see the Other man.
I need a shoulder, I want to scream, cry, yell for help. But in the end, i know it won't help, it will make me feel better for 5 minutes...
I think you’re making this much too easy for her. If you want to preserve your marriage, you need to SLOW DOWN the process, not speed it up. Quit helping her so much. What you need is time for her to change her perception of the marriage and the OM. Time to see that her present marriage can be better.
I think you’re making this much too easy for her. If you want to preserve your marriage, you need to SLOW DOWN the process, not speed it up. Quit helping her so much. What you need is time for her to change her perception of the marriage and the OM. Time to see that her present marriage can be better.
Slow down the process? I can't stop her from seeing the OM, she is already filing the papers.
I already told her, when we split custody of the kids, i won't cover her weekends for any activies that involve the OM.
How do i slow this down?
I helped her file D papers, she says if something happens we don't have to sign it. of course I have hope without expectations. I told her if we finalize this, I need along time away from her.
She also is giving me physical custody of the kids because I won't deny her kids.
In the end, I decided to not fight the flow but to help it, be there for her like when we got married. Whatever happens, happens. I really love her and want her to be happy.
The above is speeding up the D process. Quit helping her. D may be what she wants NOW, but will she in 6 months? A year? Is it what YOU want? Consider talking to a lawyer to learn how the D process works in your state, and how you can stall it. Again, you need TIME.
I really love her and want her to be happy.
How long do you think she'll be happy with this new guy? What's the chance they will marry and grow old together? How happy will she be years from now when she realizes what she did to her kids and family, and the Husband who loves her?
I still don't know how the W can tell our 3 kids, that she is leaving the family.
Don't be so sure she will. Many WAS's never say a word to their kids. They just create a trail of damage and expect others to pick up the pieces. My W and I decided to talk to the kids "together" which ended up being me talking 100% and her sitting like a statue even when I asked her if she wanted to add anything.
She told me a few days ago, she was confused about her love for me. Like maybe it was family love not "love" but how can you be with someone for 15 years with 3 boys and confused about love?
Just another variant of ILYBINILWY. Don't try to figure it out. You can't. Neither can she.
My W finallly told her parents about our decision. Of course they don't necessary agree with it, but I am kind of mad that they suggested, I move out and it would be easier for W.
Of course it would be easier on W. But she is the one leaving the M, why in the world would you want to make it any easier for her? DO NOT LEAVE. If you've read other threads on here, you'll see us say over and over again DO NOT LEAVE. You need to hold your ground. The person leaving is going to suffer the hardships of finding another place, moving stuff out of the home, setting up bills, getting used to a new place, etc. etc. This needs to be the WAS. Also the kids will always view the home as "home base", a place of comfort. And regardless of how you explain this to them, they will always view the spouse who left the home as the one that's at fault for breaking up the M. That needs to be the WAS. Remember that your W's parents, friends and other relatives will ALWAYS side with her no matter how dirty her hands are. You should not tell them ANYTHING because it WILL be used against you.
However she also proposed to alternate weekends. Which I then replied "no, I will not alternate weekends because I get them M-F and I want the mom to spend as much time as possible with the kids. She says she needs some weekends to get out.
Personally I think it's a bit odd that you only want them during the week. Maybe they're too young to have much homework yet or be involved in scouts, sports, etc. but I can tell you that with S9 and D15 my weekday evenings are 100% occupied with driving them around, feeding them, getting their homework done and getting them to bed. The weekends are the only time we have for fun stuff like going to movies, hanging out at the park, etc. If I were you I'd definitely want some weekends. If you think you can block W from seeing OM by tying up her weekends, well that won't work. She'll just have OM over when the kids are there, which IMO is worse.
I have to tell you, even though it seems like things are getting better, I have to keep telling myself "Hope without expectations".
I wouldn't gauge a single evening as indicating that "things are getting better". You need to see a trend over weeks or months before you know if that's the case. Like you said, drop all expectations.
The above is speeding up the D process. Quit helping her. D may be what she wants NOW, but will she in 6 months? A year? Is it what YOU want? Consider talking to a lawyer to learn how the D process works in your state, and how you can stall it. Again, you need TIME.
Try, when i said I helped her, I mean i gave her some information. I didn't actually file it myself. I refuse to do that. I am not being proactive on it. I plan on contesting (not signing it) it so it takes the full 2 years.
How long do you think she'll be happy with this new guy? What's the chance they will marry and grow old together? How happy will she be years from now when she realizes what she did to her kids and family, and the Husband who loves her?
Long distance relationship, not really knowing him after 16 years....I assuming this won't last unless the guy moves up (he is 1000 miles away). If she comes back to our relationship, then i need to deal with the aftermath of "Can i live with this pain"
Thanks AnotherStander for your comments.
I don't plan on leaving the house at all. As for the weekends, its not that I don't want the weekends. But i don't want her to avoid being a mom for 3 kids. Right now, her fantasy with the OM is distracting her from reality (3 kids need her time).
Plus the OM lives 1000 miles away, he doesn't have the money to visit. Her work, doesn't give her alot of vacation days, so the only times she could visit is on long weekends or Holidays (which we agree, we will spend holiday's together)
Basically if she or I want a new relationship, we need to work around the schedule with our kids to make it happen. I refuse to be the "Enabler" and she needs to realize at some point, the weekends will be her scheduled rights to see the kids. I will not let her avoid being a mom and at the same time, I won't be an "Enabler" of the affair.
The above is speeding up the D process. Quit helping her. D may be what she wants NOW, but will she in 6 months? A year? Is it what YOU want? Consider talking to a lawyer to learn how the D process works in your state, and how you can stall it. Again, you need TIME.
Try, when i said I helped her, I mean i gave her some information. I didn't actually file it myself. I refuse to do that. I am not being proactive on it. I plan on contesting (not signing it) it so it takes the full 2 years.
How long do you think she'll be happy with this new guy? What's the chance they will marry and grow old together? How happy will she be years from now when she realizes what she did to her kids and family, and the Husband who loves her?
Long distance relationship, not really knowing him after 16 years....I assuming this won't last unless the guy moves up (he is 1000 miles away). If she comes back to our relationship, then i need to deal with the aftermath of "Can i live with this pain"
Sorry LS13, if you were offended in any way by my comments. I just get the feeling you've already given up and resided yourself to the fact that she's leaving the marriage, when she's still there and you should be concentrating on DB instead of talking about who gets what after a D. Have you read DR or DB yet?
Sorry LS13, if you were offended in any way by my comments. I just get the feeling you've already given up and resided yourself to the fact that she's leaving the marriage, when she's still there and you should be concentrating on DB instead of talking about who gets what after a D. Have you read DR or DB yet?
Hi FY, I am not offended at all.
I haven't given up, just detaching and GAL. I haven't lost hope but i also can't setup up myself for failure. So I rather think she is truly leaving (all her actions make it seem like it anyway). She telling me she wants to see the OM today, is another sign that last night was false hope.
I have read the DB and DR books and I am still practicing it. I still believe but today when she said she was going to see the OM in Dec.....that was a gut punch.
I guess maybe my question is FY, if your wife told you this, what would you do?
I calmly told her, I don't agree with this, but this is your life, your decision. I will be there for the kids.
[quote=ForeverYoung]
that was a gut punch.
Tighten up because there's plenty more coming! That doesn't mean you and your marriage can't prevail though. The trick is to not allow the small positive signs to get you too excited, or the negative ones to get you too down. You just entered a marathon, not a sprint. You'll be monitoring actual progress in weeks or months, not days.
I guess maybe my question is FY, if your wife told you this, what would you do?
I calmly told her, I don't agree with this, but this is your life, your decision. I will be there for the kids.
What you posted above is fine, now just stay on your DB plan and avoid all relationship talks. It's not your job to help her leave if that's not what you want. If she asks about post D logistics I'd just say I'm really not sure right now, I need some time to figure things out. Don't help her finalize things is my point.
Journaling
Last night, we talked again about R. She is sending mixed signals, or i think its mixed signals.
Today we have a date, she asked me why are we going on a date, i said to reconnect. She doesn't say she doesn't want to go, so i am assuming we are going still. Which is a good sign.
However she also tells me, she wants to date other guys (which i assume is that Other man). She tells me not to wait for her.
But she is hell bent on testing the waters...
She also asked me, why is it everytime I am around her, i stumble like a fool. I told her because when I am around you, you make me a fool because of how i feel about you. I know that wasn't the greatest thing to say but I was being honest with my answer.
Emotional, I really want to be with her. But at the same time, I know i am getting the short end of this stick.
I am now officially in the marathon stage.
But i did get one good tip from her, she says she likes the attention of being needed. So I am assuming, I need to try and focus on this and not necessary ignore her and focus on trying to get a life. I know this my backfire on me.
I don't plan on leaving the house at all.
Good!
But i don't want her to avoid being a mom for 3 kids. Right now, her fantasy with the OM is distracting her from reality (3 kids need her time).
That is such a strange response! You don't want her to avoid being a mom? LOL! How do you propose doing that, by forcing her to take the kids more? What makes you think she'll be a mom to them just because they're around more? Drunks drink in front of their kids, drug abusers do drugs in front of their kids, prostitutes have sex in front of their kids. I'm not saying your W is any of those things, but they're examples of how just because kids are present does not make people step up to their parental roles.
Plus the OM lives 1000 miles away, he doesn't have the money to visit.
She's leaving you, so clearly she's not a loyal person. Why do you think she'd limit herself to one OM, or that she won't ditch that OM and find another OM locally?
Basically if she or I want a new relationship, we need to work around the schedule with our kids to make it happen.
That's rational thought. Do you really think she is thinking and behaving rationally right now?
I refuse to be the "Enabler" and she needs to realize at some point, the weekends will be her scheduled rights to see the kids. I will not let her avoid being a mom and at the same time, I won't be an "Enabler" of the affair.
We're talking about what's right for your kids, it has nothing to do with enabling. Your W told you she only wants them every other weekend. You cannot force her to see them more than she wants, and even if you do, it's probably not going to play out like you think.
Hi AnotherStander
Its true, I can't force her to be a mom, but at the same time, if she only wants to see them every other weekends (for her own personal glory). Then I may as well seek full custody with visitation rights for her?
If her priority isn't about the kids, then I need to make sure they have a loving Dad who isn't going to jump into another relationship because our kids are young 8, 5, and 1. I already determined, I won't be in another relationship because trying to squeeze in a new relationship with 3 young boys and work, is almost impossible for me.
I am just so mad about her abandoning the kids or doing what she feels is fair for herself. I understand weekends are important to do the "Fun" stuff, but I also know M-F, i can do "Fun" stuff. During summer vacation, i can take them out M-F with no issues.
If her job was more flexible, we would have more options.
This is her latest response about weekend responsbilities. If she can't get one weekend off (keep in mind, she has M-F with no kids), she will leave them behind.....I mean seriously. What kind of response was that? Ya ya, I know addition to the OM.....
I also can't stop her parents from pissing her off even more. Her dad is basicaly disowning her (he refuses to talk to her). The mom is basically arguing with her all the time about "using your brain" and to stop lying about the OM (W never mentions his name)
Just venting.I am continue doing my 180's, DB and GAL and being the best dad possible.
Journaling
Not sure if I had a major breakthrough....but yesterday I blew up because W was accusing me of telling stuff to her parents. Which I didn't do. A lot of things were said. Too much to summarize. I wasn't sure she heard anything. But then her mom came down and intervened. I left.
Got a message to go talk to her. She apologized, said she was sorry.
All i know is, i did damage on our relationship. Talked about my mistakes. Told her i know she is worried about me, not changing. Told her, i understand the addiction to the affair is hard to let go. I understand her.
We both agreed that seperating is still good for both of us. I don't know how to explain it but it's been a long time i felt my W being there.
I continue to do DB and Gal but at least now i know i have a chance to save this. If we save it, i am going to be the best husband, dad ever for this family.
I no longer feel like I am lost. Its a new beginning for us, i hope she continues to feel i can change and not visit the other side. If she does visit the other side and doesn't find happiness, i will wait.
I been listening to "I won't give up"
I have to thank everybody for their support and most of all to my inlaws, who was there for me through this ordeal. I hope I can make them proud.
I know she will have Ups and downs. We all do and i am going to be there to pick her back up.
I no longer feel like I am lost. Its a new beginning for us, i hope she continues to feel i can change and not visit the other side. If she does visit the other side and doesn't find happiness, i will wait.
A new beginning, yes. The old marriage is dead and gone. There's no going back.
If she does find "happiness" on the other side, chances are great that it won't last. Something to keep in mind when you cut her loose.
I have to thank everybody for their support and most of all to my inlaws, who was there for me through this ordeal. I hope I can make them proud.
Thank them kindly for being there for you, and then ask them kindly to not approach her regarding your relationship anymore. Additional pressure from them pushing her to "do the right thing" will not help you in the long run. Remember how she felt that you turned her own parents against her? Sure, it's just her perception, but you (and they) can put an end to that. Bust On!
Now comes the hard part. STOP involving them with any of this between you and her.
Seriously man, do not involve them, this will bite you in the asss in the long run.
Hi lost -
Exposure is NOT recommended here. It's an act of war. Your wife's affair is an act of war, your response is a retaliatory act of war. For some spouses, that can be 'unforgiveable' which is a death sentence to the old relationship. That means you have to begin anew. New relationship. THAT is not a death sentence it's a re-birth sentence, but it isn't easy.
It heals if it's gonna heal, with REAL GIVING. REAL GIVING is doing what your partner needs/wants even if it's unnatural for you. For example...if when your relationship is at a stress point, and you are in an argument, and your spouse needs closeness, you connect even when you need to disconnect, and vice versa.
What were your wife's complaints before the affair? What was good before the affair? You have knowledge as to what makes her happy? What is that? You also left a happiness gap--related to SOMETHING? Do you know what that is?
Do you knwo what your spouse wants :
During happy times
During an argument
In her grief?
What are YOUR needs?
How do they relate/conflict
What can you do to support her and meet your own needs when she can't?
Hi lost -
Exposure is NOT recommended here. It's an act of war. Your wife's affair is an act of war, your response is a retaliatory act of war. For some spouses, that can be 'unforgiveable' which is a death sentence to the old relationship. That means you have to begin anew. New relationship. THAT is not a death sentence it's a re-birth sentence, but it isn't easy.
It heals if it's gonna heal, with REAL GIVING. REAL GIVING is doing what your partner needs/wants even if it's unnatural for you. For example...if when your relationship is at a stress point, and you are in an argument, and your spouse needs closeness, you connect even when you need to disconnect, and vice versa.
What were your wife's complaints before the affair? What was good before the affair? You have knowledge as to what makes her happy? What is that? You also left a happiness gap--related to SOMETHING? Do you know what that is?
Do you knwo what your spouse wants :
During happy times
During an argument
In her grief?
What are YOUR needs?
How do they relate/conflict
What can you do to support her and meet your own needs when she can't?
Hi DBmod
I know what it takes to make her happy, what to do for arguements.
My needs is to have undivided attention at least a few hours a week. Physical touching (hugging, kissing). Something she has been avoiding for the last year. I can get real deep in this but i wanted to focus on what you said
"REAL GIVING is doing what your partner needs/wants even if it's unnatural for you"
Here is the dilemma, My W is still moving out (the apartment is 5 minutes away). She needs her time and space, I respect that. I don't want to stop her, even when I know seperation isn't the greatest option. We talked about the custody of the kids during our seperation. Right now, I can have the most flexible schedule for the kids to provide stablitiy for them. So we both agreed to do M-F (with me), Friday night, she picks them up and stay until Sunday.
The catch is, she wants to come over M-F anytime she wants and she still wants to explore dating with the Other man....So do I let her do this?
She tells me by sticking to a strict schedule, it will push her farther away from me. But if i do what she asks, won't that confuse the kids even more and then basically tell her, i accept her having an affair with the OM?
Things have gotten better, she doesn't hate me anymore, she can talk to me but she is still confused about "Love". Her old ex-BF (which never had closure) is still haunting her. She actually told me the other day, she feels better about me, but not enough to really re-kindle (which i understand)
So with your statement are you saying, just allow her to get her cake and eat it? While I suffer through the ordeal?
I am trying to detatch but its going to be super hard, if I constantly see her all week.
You have to set some boundaries or she will walk all over you and lose respect for you. Will you accept an affair on the bases she may not seek D? This is up to you. Personally, I would tell my wife that dating other men while married to me will not be tolerated. If she has an affair and refused to end it, I would then cut off all the benefits I could of being my wife. I would not allow her to come and go in our house as she pleases. Set up a schedule or call first. She chose to leave you and move into her own place, remember? I would not seek a D though… Just sit back and see what happens for a while.
It’s funny how often the grass isn’t always greener on the other side after all.
You have to set some boundaries or she will walk all over you and lose respect for you. Will you accept an affair on the bases she may not seek D? This is up to you. Personally, I would tell my wife that dating other men while married to me will not be tolerated. If she has an affair and refused to end it, I would then cut off all the benefits I could of being my wife. I would not allow her to come and go in our house as she pleases. Set up a schedule or call first. She chose to leave you and move into her own place, remember? I would not seek a D though… Just sit back and see what happens for a while.
It’s funny how often the grass isn’t always greener on the other side after all.
Thats what i figured, set some boundries. I told her she has a month to think about it as she is moving out in a month (she has to find an apartment). I won't budge from my stance. Financilly, i setup my own accounts and have my money going into it now.
In our last discussion i made some good points. I said, look at what you are willing to sacrifice (kids lives, our marriage, relationships with her Dad/Mom, financial security, etc) for this guy but yet this guy won't even consider moving up to be with his "true love". He loses nothing and you lose everything. Told her, that is the most lopsided love i seen. If i was in that guys place and I knew i was going to ruin so many lives to be with a women, i better damn well make sure i take care of this women. That made her think really hard if the grass is greener on the other side. I know i made mistakes, but I am already changing for the better for myself.
I need to be careful how i approach the custody of the kids its like a chess game because even though the DB/DR techniques are good, people's behavior are slightly different. I have to know if the things i am doing are going to hurt or make things better.
For example, she told me she wants more attention, which kind of goes against some of things people are saying. Lately i been paying alot more attention and i notice her attitude is changing for the better. But I been told, its best to not initate contact or show her how intersted you are, but its the totally reverse.
In the Custody issue, she tells me if i cut the kids off, it will push her away. I am deciding if that is because she wants her cake and eat it or she is giving me an honest answer on how I can make it better between us. If she was cold and mean, it would be an easy decision but right now, she is showing me kindness (just not the loving kindness i want). The kindness is consistant. If it was consistant, i would say she is playing more games...
I hope in a month and half, my DB/180's will pay off to maybe have her change her mind about moving out or make it short term.
Sorry meant to say, if the kindness wasn't consistant, i would say she is playing more games.
Journaling
I keep trying to detach but it has gotten so much harder when she communicates with me as friends. I try so hard to not breakdown and just grab her and hold on tight.
Even though I have hope without expectations, I can't help fear the unknown once she moves out. She seems so much stronger, maybe its because of the OM?
I know, today its one of those days where I feel really lost. Maybe its because I have been spending more time with her but I also know she will be moving out.
I Haven't had any crazy emotion outburst or negative words with W. But i can't help think, this is a messed up punishment for me and the kids.
when i see the kids, they are so happy. Then i think about when my W is moving out. The questions i will answer, the fear of failure to be the best dad for them.
So many questions, no real answers.
All i know is, i need to set my boundaries when she leaves. As much as i would love her to be around more but i need to protect the kids (stability) and allow myself to keep moving.
Its so hard to take a breath, feel like i am drowning. I know tomorrow i will feel better.
Yes, it's hard. If it's any consolation, we've all felt like this at times and then been ok other times. Just breathe and know that you are not alone and that things will get better. (((())))
LS13,
My sitch is similar but one step ahead. My H just moved out this past weekend. He is in an EA that he refuses to let of go to work on our R.
We have 3 kids & I'm trying to sort out the new "rules" for this transition. For the kids sake consistency is best, so I'm going with the advice that if H wants to come at a "random" time he needs to give us some notice. You may want to establish a prior day request or whatever.
I know the "friendship" relationship is hard-that's where we are too. And I certainly don't want to be a doormat for him to walk all over, but boundaries are difficult when you are getting along and thinking the time you spend together is better than not.
However, things WILL change when she actually moves out. Some things will be immediate, others will take a LONG, LONG (MARATHON) time.
Don't assume she is stronger b/c of OM--that is mind-reading. It could just as easily be her interactions w you & your attitude change toward her needing time/space.
Journaling
Yesterday, W and I had a great time on our Car ride back from a 1 day vacation with our kids. Talked about alot of things (non R things), i felt a connection (but i know its probably me).
Today, I wanted to tell my W again, how seperating was not a good idea...but i don't want to bring up the R. But i hate the thought how our kids will go through this and ask questions. I am still so confused with her.
I get the Sense, she is starting to get comfortable with me again and on the other hand, she is still determined to move out.....
I got things going with my life(GAL) , right now my main focus is on the kids and how to be the best dad in the world. Work is kind of hard to focus, but getting back in the swing of things.
With the holidays and her birthday coming up...its going to be a rough ride.
For her Birthday, i already planned things out prior to the D-Day, so i will continue with the plans.
I wish spouses who got lost, would realize sometimes it worth it to give one last chance, especially when we LBS, haven't committed physical/verbal abuse, we just simply priortized things differently when we have kids, work, etc. It doesn't mean we don't love our spouses, we got busy and assumed things where okay........
Journaling
So today is a prelude to when my W moves out and i get my kids M-F with no Inlaw help....I been spoiled in my life. Already made it half way through the day, shed some tears, listen to some songs.
I kept thinking of the day my W moves out, if she will feel like how i am feeling? Scared or relieved to live her new life? I already know the answer but i hope my DB will pay off and she will miss me.
Maybe one of these days, i can look back at my journaling and smile.
For now, i got 3 boys to take care of..
Journaling
My W has been lacking sleep for the last 2 months (ever since this ordeal started). I am worried about her health. She tells me things will be better when everything is settled (when she moves out). I simply told her, you are where you are at because you don't know what direction you want to go in. I left it at that.
Not sure how things will be better because M-F I will have the kids and she keeps telling me how Kids are important to her. Clearly the lack of sleep and her current throught process isn't clear.
Yesterday was my 1st time, i actually imagined life without my W and how i took care of the house, worked, clean, cook, got the kids ready for school, helped with HW. I actually thought, at the end of the night, i can have a Glass of Wine and breath a sign of relief.
Lately I been having thoughts about how long do I wait? Is it 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 years? How long do I continue to be in this cycle. I love her very much but at the same time, if i can never make her happy, i need to move on.....I guess as i detach more,GAL and DB, the decision will be easier.
Lost,
Our sitches are similar in many ways. My W has cooled on the talk of moving out, but I am writing that off as a down moment. She swings back and forth by the week right now.
Detaching is hard and I believe even harder when you have young children. It also makes this more confusing because in one sens you have a parent checking out and basically saying they are willing to give up time with their kids in order to pursue what is hard to call anything but a selfish pipe dream.
I haven't found a magic cure, but I do find comfort in the DB process. Most of my GAL'ing centers around the kids, although I have trying to use this as a way to meet new people along the way.
Not sure I have any great wisdom for you, but it is comforting to know there are others out there pushing to save their R and not just because you have children at stake.
There are days and hours I swear my wife has been replaced by someone -- her actions and words are that confusing. Luckily I am becoming numb to the venom, anger and threats. Additionally, these three things are SLOWLY reducing -- at the moment anyway.
Keep up with DB and GAL'ing it is making detaching a little easier for me anyway.
Not sure I have any great wisdom for you, but it is comforting to know there are others out there pushing to save their R and not just because you have children at stake.
There are days and hours I swear my wife has been replaced by someone -- her actions and words are that confusing. Luckily I am becoming numb to the venom, anger and threats. Additionally, these three things are SLOWLY reducing -- at the moment anyway.
Keep up with DB and GAL'ing it is making detaching a little easier for me anyway.
HI Nick
Thank you for your comments. I don't expect alot of Wisdom from this point, in the beginning I was a wreck and could use alot of Wisdom but at this point, by following DB, GAL, 180's, I been pretty good on my communication with/without my W. But I do appreciate your concern and feedback!!!!!
I also like to vent because so many of us are in the same situation, its nice to vent here.
Just like you, i feel like my wife was replaced by someone else, for me it wasn't a gradually replacement, she literally became a different person over night. Prior to this, we physically were touching, we where about to buy a new house, we talked about vacation for next year, we talked about alot of Family things.
All it took was me approaching her about making this relationship better. I think this is one aspect I am different from others. I approached my W first to discuss and improve our Issues, she only dropped the bomb the day after. I thought with me trying to discuss it 1st, It would have been a relationship saver, instead it opened a can of worms. But i guess better to happen now, then later.
Sometimes i get the feeling her actions with the OM, is causing her to react either negatively or positivily with me. I can only hope the OM says something stupid to upset her. At least the only thing comforting me right now is, they can't physically comfort each other 24/7.
The other day, I asked her a simple question. I said you are going to sacrifice alot of good things in your life to be with this guy (kids, parent relationships, financially, etc) and what is this single guy sacrificing for you? He won't move up, he won't quit his job down there to be with a women who is sacrificing 15 years of her life. If i was this man and i knew a women was going to do this and if i truly loved her, i wouldn't wait, i would move up and find a job to be close to her.
Just trying to open her mind up, that fantasy land isn't that easy. Not sure if its working but instead of saying "you can't, you shouldn't, do it for the kids", i doing what a good friend should do, ask questions and let her decide if that is the path you want.
I have all but convinced myself, she wants to test the waters out. Extremely jealous of this but at the same time, i know people make mistakes. I am willing to give her a chance but as we grow apart and I start to feel confident, that chance becomes slimmer and slimmer.
I forgot to mention, if that OM does move up, then I know its really time for me to move on. Because she will take that as an ultimate sacrifice and forget that her H has already made so many sacrifice to try and get her back. I guess the OM, will have to learn everything i learned already about sustaining a long term relationship when the initial "love bird" love is gone.
Journaling
So i think my sitch has changed because what I am hearing now is coming from close friends that are talking to my W about the situation.
Essentially i become a contest to pursue her again..Sounds silly considering I am her H with 3 kids. The only thing, i can do is DBing because I won't be able to wine and dine her with 3 kids.
Essentially she wants to make sure the person she loves is really the person she wants to be with.....I already mentioned, she felt she "settled" for me.
The only thing i know is, I was kind of scared of her moving out...but the more i think, the more she needs this. I want her to be stable in this and right now she is all over the place.
I consider this a form of cake eating again. Keeping me around for emergency use.............
My plan says to re-evaluate my needs after 6 months when she moves out. I wont' allow myself to be stuck in this situation after 6 months if I don't see significatant improvements. She either thinks I am good enough (with my new changes) or not. Not this limbo stuff.
I am also going to go and GQ myself....to make myself feel better and send a message saying...ya I ain't waiting around either. Create that mystery about myself. I encourge others, who haven't thought about this, do this for yourself. Have some fun.
I like your plan LS, and the 6 month evaluation sounds reasonable. As you noted, your wife really doesn't know what she wants right now, and she certainly doesn't truly know this other guy yet either. So yes, this will take her some time to figure out. Let it be her decision though, that way when she comes back you'll know it's because SHE believes you were the best choice.
Bust On, and be strong!
LS13, try as hard as you can to Not bring up those simple discussions about all the lives that will be affected and what she will be giving up.
That is pressure, and pushes her farther away. STOP It.
What GAL activities have you done that are for you only, not including your kids?
I'm not good at that either because my W left 9 months ago and i have 100% custody of our S-9. She visits him very inconsistently, so i have him with me wherever i go.
The talks you have with her are an attempt to guilt her back into reality. That will not work.
Good luck, but don't make her choices easier on her. Let her find in you, a man that she can respect.
Ed
LS13, try as hard as you can to Not bring up those simple discussions about all the lives that will be affected and what she will be giving up.
That is pressure, and pushes her farther away. STOP It.
What GAL activities have you done that are for you only, not including your kids?
I'm not good at that either because my W left 9 months ago and i have 100% custody of our S-9. She visits him very inconsistently, so i have him with me wherever i go.
The talks you have with her are an attempt to guilt her back into reality. That will not work.
Good luck, but don't make her choices easier on her. Let her find in you, a man that she can respect.
Ed
Hi ED
I haven't brought up discussion about the lives she is going to impact. I think there has been plenty of discussion in the past (therapist, friends, family and myself). At this point nobody is trying to convince her to stay. I have to say her Parents are probably putting on the most pressure..I try to stop them but its their daughter. My last R talk was about letting her go. I told her, go find your happeniness. I will be behind her as much as possible. Told her, she always has a home if she wants to come back.
As for GAL, I have started to get in shape. Like in really good shape (6 pack abs is my goal). Ran 3 miles the other day. I am also reading more books. But to honest, alot of my activities are involved with Kids. 3 young boys (1 year old) is hard to just get away. Its okay, i love my activities with the kids. But taking care of 3 boys.....oh boy that is so tough. She made a comment about me dating other girls, I was like sorry with 3 boys, I won't have much time right now, maybe in 2-3 years when they get older
The other day, I asked her a simple question. I said you are going to sacrifice alot of good things in your life to be with this guy (kids, parent relationships, financially, etc) and what is this single guy sacrificing for you? He won't move up, he won't quit his job down there to be with a women who is sacrificing 15 years of her life. If i was this man and i knew a women was going to do this and if i truly loved her, i wouldn't wait, i would move up and find a job to be close to her.
Just trying to open her mind up, that fantasy land isn't that easy.
LS13, try as hard as you can to Not bring up those simple discussions about all the lives that will be affected and what she will be giving up.
That is pressure, and pushes her farther away. STOP It.
The talks you have with her are an attempt to guilt her back into reality. That will not work.
Good point Am I Too Late, I don't know how I missed that. The top quote is convincing /guilting behavior, which as you say, usually won't have the desired effect. But hey, a slip up here or there is not a big deal, we've all done that. Just make sure this isn't your game plan to get her back LS.
Wow!!!!! Maybe some of this stuff is finally rubbing off on me.
I would not have seen the impact of that statement 2 months ago.
Work in progress, but at least moving forward.
Many people on this site say, no one comment or day will alter the outcome, but as FY said, don't make a habit out of it.
Ed
The other day, I asked her a simple question. I said you are going to sacrifice alot of good things in your life to be with this guy (kids, parent relationships, financially, etc) and what is this single guy sacrificing for you? He won't move up, he won't quit his job down there to be with a women who is sacrificing 15 years of her life. If i was this man and i knew a women was going to do this and if i truly loved her, i wouldn't wait, i would move up and find a job to be close to her.
Just trying to open her mind up, that fantasy land isn't that easy.
LS13, try as hard as you can to Not bring up those simple discussions about all the lives that will be affected and what she will be giving up.
That is pressure, and pushes her farther away. STOP It.
The talks you have with her are an attempt to guilt her back into reality. That will not work.
Good point Am I Too Late, I don't know how I missed that. The top quote is convincing /guilting behavior, which as you say, usually won't have the desired effect. But hey, a slip up here or there is not a big deal, we've all done that. Just make sure this isn't your game plan to get her back LS.
That comment came from her talking about R. She wanted to talk about the "Green" side of things. I didin't say she can't do it, i just said there are risks associated with her choices. I didn't bad mouth the OM but I felt, if she was going to sacrifrice her life for this, then he should be doing the same exact thing.
My gameplan isn't getting her back, its to be ready for whatever may happen at the end. I promised myself to never beg or plea for her to come back. If I change myself, its for myself. If I look good, its for myself. If I become the greatest dad, its for myself.
If she happens to notice and decided she is missing out on the fun, then great. I can talk about forgiveness. If she happens to leave, then I wish her all the luck in the world with the new man.
...and your changes are good for your kids and for a future R!
ls13, you sound like you are moving in the right direction.
You SO have your hands full w your 3 boys. My 3 are a little older so a lot more independent at this time. You are being an excellent role model for them by being a rock and by taking the higher road & DBing.
QUestion--what do you think has made you get to this point? I am so intrigued by those of you who are on the road that I want to be on (detaching & GALing)?
QUestion--what do you think has made you get to this point? I am so intrigued by those of you who are on the road that I want to be on (detaching & GALing)?
TG, I would say the first thing is for you to decide that you don't NEED your spouse to live a happy and fulfilling life. Realize that they may be gone for good no matter what you do, and you'll be ok... even better than ok! Once you do this the rest will fall in place.
Hi Turtlegirl
FY is correct and from my readings across many forums and discussions with many people who have gone through similar issues. I realized no matter what I do, i can't force the person to come back. LBS have already taken that step to met in the middle, its the WAS that has to take that step.
So the only thing you can do is work on yourself to be a better person with no expectations that your S is coming back. Many of us initally do not want to admit this, we hate admitting its over. But it is over, but it doesn't mean a new chapter can't start. The new chapter can be with or without your spouse. Yes it hurts, it always hurts. It hurts even when you think you are detatched.
So for me (FY gave you the view). I simply said, i need to let her go. But i follow these rules as i let her go.
1. Its okay to feel emotions, just do it without your spouse
2. Be nice, be respectful and be there for your your ex-spouse. Just like a friend. Don't go the extra mile, just treat her/him like a buddy.
3. Flirt but do not think you are chasing her/him. Remember we all flirt with people we like, its natural. It doesn't mean you want him, just flirt because it makes you feel good.
4. Make yourself happy and others will be happy around you.
5. Stop protecting your spouse, its over. He/She can go do whatever they want, but you need to stop worrying over it because it is over.
I think maybe even easier to summon this up, i think this is in one of the books. Begin from the beginning mindset. Forget he/she has a past with you. Simply treat them like its all new. Yes this is extremely hard but if you really think about it.......
The old relationship is over, if you find a new person, you are starting from the beginning, so why not do it with your ex-spouse.
Those are my mind set as i work it out. I won't lie, i want it to have a happy ending, but at the same time for my own sanity I understand our old relationship is over. I don't want that old relationship because it failed.
I want a new relationship, i prefer my W but if not..then some other girl will be lucky with my experience. I thank my W for giving me this experience on being a better person. Just a shame, i couldn't do this for her while we were M.
I hope this kind of clears up my thoughts TG.
Thanks for the tips, ls13.
I do believe I've gotten to the point where I know I don't NEED him, but I still WANT him in my life very much.
I think I am "stuck" in the sad phase. I'm also "waiting" to see what happens next w OW (PA??). I know that I need to detach either way until he decides his path.
TG
Its okay to feel that way, I still do. We all do with our S.
The part you shouldn't do is "Wait" to see what happens w OW. I already gave my blessing to my W and hope it works out w OM. Since then, i haven't worried or waited for that. Heck if she even brings up dating, I simply say "Great, I am happy for you", then i bring up a new topic or walk away.
Remember, your S fell in love with you before because you were a special person to him, you had good qualities about yourself. You just need to focus on yourself to bring those qualities out for yourself. Everything else will fall in place.
So top worrying or waiting for the OW. Heck if you don't want to openly tell him have fun, at least in your head, tell yourself "Who cares"
Your only in the Sad phase, as long as you let it continue
. My sitch is only 2 months but i realized, there is no reason why i have to be sad. I was originally sad for my kids too...but i realized my W is doing this, i can't stop her, so i can't be sad for the kids, i need to be the best dad in the world.
I am already mentally preparing for the day, my W moves out. Heck, I am planning weekend events for myself already. I am planning Dinner with my kids, fun stuff, movie night. Things i will do without my W. I already thought about taking my kids on vacation without my W. In the end, she can join me on the fun or she can go get her own fun.
Journaling
Today I got a date with the W, her birthday is coming up soon. With my new beginner mindset. I am treating her as a friend. I got hope without expectations but i plan on allowing myself to have fun without watching her every movements.
1. Dress up really nice, like GQ style. I got new clothes, went out on shopping spree and spent more money on clothes than i did in the last 10 years of my marriage. Hey I am single now
2. Hair salon to change my hair style, always wanted more flair. Always had a borrowing haircut at the barber. I need some advice. Never went to a Salon before (180)
3. Driving 3 hours to watch a concert (she wanted to see)
4. Taking her to a nice place to eat $$$, as a married couple we would avoid.
5. Got her a pillow and blanket for the car ride back so she can sleep.
6. Maintain eye contact throughout the event, give really nice smiles, and listen to every word.
Nothing about this speaks about being married. I just hope we have fun. If she tries any R talk, I ain't having it.
For me, she is now a single women, who i would like to get to know more. If nothing happens...oh well its just like dating..
Meant* Always hated the boring Haircut at the barber
I just want to say it sounds like you're doing quite well for yourself LS. I don't think I was as detached at 2 months as you are. Best wishes to you and your M.
I just want to say it sounds like you're doing quite well for yourself LS. I don't think I was as detached at 2 months as you are. Best wishes to you and your M.
FY at first when i started overcoming my issues, i was actually afraid, I didn't love her as much as i thought i did, when i felt detached this fast. I was actually scared with her moving out, I may be the one who doesn't want to work on it.
Truth is, I love her alot and I accept my faults in our marriage and I want her to be happy with or without me. Soooooo, why worry as much. I will just treat her like single lady, i really want to get to know her, but hey we all get denied by someone.
Plus even if i fail, i know i got 3 wonderful boys, who i can love for a very long time.
And I even thought about calling the OM one day and telling him what my Ex-W likes and dislikes...just because i can
FY at first when i started overcoming my issues, i was actually afraid, I didn't love her as much as i thought i did, when i felt detached this fast. I was actually scared with her moving out, I may be the one who doesn't want to work on it.
Truth is, I love her alot and I accept my faults in our marriage and I want her to be happy with or without me. Soooooo, why worry as much. I will just treat her like single lady, i really want to get to know her, but hey we all get denied by someone.
Plus even if i fail, i know i got 3 wonderful boys, who i can love for a very long time.
I still believe it is highly unlikely she will find
long term happiness leaving you and her family for this new guy. Don't be surprised when it doesn't last and she wants back in. Especially when she sees the new you. Then it's all up to you how you want to handle things.
Are you guys going through with D, or holding off on that?
I still believe it is highly unlikely she will find long term happiness leaving you and her family for this new guy. Don't be surprised when it doesn't last and she wants back in. Especially when she sees the new you. Then it's all up to you how you want to handle things.
Are you guys going through with D, or holding off on that?
Nobody thinks she will find happiness with the new guy, but I understand her need to do this. With my changes, I am sure its making it harder for her (hence why she is still going on dates with me). The changes, I am making for myself is making me complete. I always been a soft and caring guy, just failed in communication in our marriage. Showing the wrong type of love too. I guess thats why i feel so confident about myself on rebounding. There will be someone else who is going to be happy with me and I won't make the same mistakes.
As for her wanting her back, I already told myself, it will only happen if these 2 things happen.
1. She open communicates that she wants to make this work. She doesn't need to even aplogoize for her actions.
2. She has to make changes for herself to match my changes. I can't accept the old her.
IF she can't meet those 2 things, then I can't accept her back. She should know the amount of pain she has caused and now i am expecting her to give back.
As for D, it was my idea to file (I threatened) and well like people said follow through it. She originally wanted a legal seperation. So she filed the papers, but she asked me to not sign it (the last time we talked about D). We did talk about money, custody of the kids, everything, so if this happens, we will do this without lawyers.
So i figure, we got at least 2 years if I don't sign it. Who knows, maybe i might sign it earlier. Like i said 6 months is my timeline. I won't allow myself to be held hostage in this.
Either I am the right guy, right family or I am not. None of this long term limbo crap. Plus just because we D, doesn't mean we can't always re-marry if we feel the connection is still there. So having a D isn't scaring me, its just a piece of paper. As for as I am concerned, our relationship is over when she said she wanted to be with OM. Paper or not, that was the day it ended for me.
WOW, can I be your date?!! What a great time it sounds like it will be!
Your mindset is amazing!
I so wish my H would agree to a date. Alas, when I brought it up lightly in the not-so-distant past he said he is not in a place to do that right now.
Good for YOU!
WOW, can I be your date?!! What a great time it sounds like it will be!
Your mindset is amazing!
I so wish my H would agree to a date. Alas, when I brought it up lightly in the not-so-distant past he said he is not in a place to do that right now.
Good for YOU!
TG at least you appreciate it
TG, if you go on a date with your H, make sure you treat him like a new person. No expections of H/W relationship. It will make the date that much better because you wont' be there thinking or judging him on his past behaviors.
Update from my date
I had a great time yesterday not sure about my W because she is under alot of stress and she looks tired. I think she had an "okay" time. I know the bigger issue is, she isn't allowing herself to have a great time because I already know her heart isn't into it. But oh well, at least i had a good time and i know if her heart was in it, she would of really enjoyed it.
We ate a great meal. The setting was romantic , the dishes where fancy, yummy and $$$. I dressed my best.
The Concert was awesome!!! Had a really good time.
I listened, I flirted, I smiled and no talks of R.
She even asked me to book a room overnight and I did, but we may as well have been in seperate rooms.....but i swear in any other date...it would of been a great night.
But hey she is a date after all but I do know this, if i took a women out and did what i did above and she wasn't happy, i wouldn't have a 2nd date. But since this is my W and my timeline is 6 months...try try again.
But at least I accomplished Detatching, GAL and 180 all in 1 night. I kind of felt sorry for her too, her I was, a better me (in a few more months, even better), the father of her 3 kids and she wants to test the other side. But then i said to myself "why am i feeling sorry, she is the one missing out"
Then I had a good sleep!!
Here is the bigger kicker, in the morning. I told her, hope you had fun because this will be our 2nd to last date. Last date will be her birthday
She said "what do you mean?". I said well your moving out and i am going to be working from home, taking care of the kids M-F. I won't have time or energy to date anymore because I am going to be busy being a great dad. But if you want to join us on family events, your more than welcome too.
She gave me a look and said nothing. I smiled and walked away.
Wow! Good for you!
And, too bad for her that she didn't have a great time on the awesome date you planned for the two of you. However, I am more impressed w your great attitude DESPITE her lack of enthusiam.
You couldn't have done more...and she'll leave wondering what if... (I had let myself enjoy this!).
Journaling
Special days and holidays are going to suck. I am expecting myself to pull back and ready myself to control my emotions. I was just thinking this morning that, this might be her last birthday I spend with her (17 birthday's), then i think about the rest of the holidays and special days, how it might be the last (well last as in together, i know with kids it wont' be the "Last")
I guess what I am saying is, since this will technically be "Last" time, i may as well make it memorable....
So for her Birthday i did the following
1. Got her a bunch of stuff for her new apartment (done)
2. Sent 34 Ballons to her work place!!!! (done)
3. Took her on a great date (done)
4. Made a scrapbook of an important event she just did recently (i think it was awesome) (done)
With no expectations of her even saying "thanks" and for every comment i get about "Gee i wish my H was like this", I already gotten a few.....It makes me smile that somebody is going to appreciate me in the future.
I love taking the negative situations and making it positive for myself but at the same time show my changes and bring out the old loving me (single me, who would of done alot of these things anyway).
Journaling
Today is one of those unexpected events, where no matter how much DB or 180 or detached you felt...it just takes one trigger to bring back these horrible emotions of being sad.
Today I saw a picture on here phone when her other man called. It was them hugging and she looked so happy.....
I went downstairs and just broken down....maybe 6 months timeline is too long....
I miss that happy look, when she was with me
A set back for me...it hurts bad to see a picture. God give me strength if i see them hold and hugging in person...
ls13,
Special events and holidays ARE going to be hard and DIFFERENT. I don't think ANYONE on here is looking forward to them (except maybe AS) in the same way this year.
ANd, the pict on the phone that had to have really hurt! I'm so sorry.
BUt, if I could guess I'd say you'll pick yourself up tomorrow (if you haven't already) & you'll be in a better place (again).
Journaling
thanks TG, as usually, i picked myself up. Found some renewed strength.
Some good news..well maybe but I guess I will take it. My W emails this morning, thanking me for the last 2 weeks of patience and providing support. She says, she hasn't been this happy in a very long time.
Key things she mentioned was
1. She woke up in the morning and contemplated if she should move out. I re-enforced her saying, she should only come back home when she is ready. I don't want anymore "what ifs"
2. She seems to be opening up her feelings. Today she mentioned how she can now trust me with the kids, in the past she would be worried about me taking care all 3 of them when she went out. Says it feels good to know she can go out and she can not worry about the 3 kids.
As always, I continue to DB, GAL and do 180's for myself but I have a beginner's mindset about my W. She is a new person and I am giving her space, time, and support she needs.
So in 6 months..who knows what happens with our R, but I do know one thing..in 6 months, I am going to be a great man and great dad.
Journaling
So I was suppose to go visit my Mom for Thanksgiving alone (because well I wanted too). I told my W and she suprise me by saying she would like to go with the kids. I could of been stubborn but I figure why not but i typically don't bring new girls to visit my family that early...haha
So she is coming along, at first i was like, i wonder if she felt weird with my family (my mom knows) but then i said "who cares, she asked to go" but i think the thinksgiving will turn out well.
At this point, I am still on the path of being nice, respectful and giving her space/time she needs. Most of all, I am showing my DB, GAL and 180 are all in full effect. I know everytime I am happy with my life, 3 kids, dates, and family events, I am introducing a world where she can join again.
I don't know if she will truly re-join and develop a new R but I do know this, I am having fun, less stress, more sleep
I like the path you're on LS and it sounds like you're getting some positive feedback from W. Bust on my friend!
Thanks FY. I like my path, but I couldn't do it without all you folks helping and sharing your stories.
My W is showing signs but unfortunately I know the OM has to be out of the picture. Till then, i am making myself look and feel great....and being a great dad.
Journaling
Things have been okay. Had a minor set back, when I asked W to not talk to OM during times we are with the kids. I felt disrespected.
Now only 3 more days when she signs the lease for her new apartment. I feel okay but I am preparing myself to feel like crap that day. Hard to believe after 15 years...its come to this.
Funny thing is, things are really not that bad between us. We talk, laugh, play games, flirt a little...i still make her baths ever night.
But i understand she needs to do this to find her own answers in life...
Starting in 3 days, my clock starts..6 months for a positive sign, if not going dark and letting go the last piece of my heart that is holding on.
I love my W and hope some light will show her the way to happiness (with or without me).
LS13,
It is amazing to me that your W is involved w OW and you are still a friend to her. I'm not sure I will be able to do this (as I'm sure I will need to decide this soon).
I can't stand the idea of my H w OW let alone wish him happiness w her--your level of detachment is impressive.
I do like the idea of a definitive time line. I'm sure it gives you a goal. I think I need one too--6 more months is about all I can withstand(as it has already been 5mos since BD & probably 10 months since my H shown complete detachment from me).
How do you think your R w your W will look when you "go dark?"
TG
For me, I believe we are all capable of mistakes and even though I don't like the idea of my W with the OM but I do understand it was a part of me who helped drive her to this direction. I understand she made the decision but let's face it, if I did DB earlier, I might not have been in the situation.
I also am aware, she and I got married young, had kids young. During the time I met her, she was with a BF (who is the OM). He went to jail for a stupid crime. So she never had closure on that R.
Ever see that movie called "Hall Pass", its exactly what I am giving her. I also love her and the greatest gift I can give is forgiveness and happiness. It hurts me to let her go but I can get over it.
When I met her, I was there for all her tough times and I promised to always support her. She isn't a bad person, just lost. Trying to help her find her way either with or without me. Her journey isn't just about the OM, its about doing things she missed being single.
When I go dark, I have no expectations. I will go dark because it means she found happiness and I need to move on.
I was going to say going dark will be hard because we have 3 boys. The best I can do is co-parent and keep things like that. No dates, no talks about R, no helping (like husband type of things)
Journaling
Helped my Friend (W), pack today. Probably shouldn't help but at the same time felt it was good to help as part of my healing process.
Afterwards, she thanked me. She told me, it must be tough to help her.....wanted to say no $$#%@a. But told her, your welcome.
As we were driving to visit a friend who just had a baby, I thought about our children, when they where born. I tested up, couldn't let my Friend know. For 10 minutes, remained silence and avoided looking or talking. I didn't care if she heard me, but for that brief minute, I couldn't hold it in.
Only 2 days till she signs the lease...
The other day, she told me, she could stop talking to me to make it easier for me.....WAS... I swear, no clue, no matter what they did or try to do, our heart was damaged. We LBS will have great pain regardless if they avoid us or don't...
I told her, do what you need to do and stop worrying about me.
I started to mentally take her pity as encouragement to DB and GAL harder. I am going to make someone happy in the future, I can promise myself that...
Bring on Christmas and New Years!!!! May as well deal with all these holidays sooner than later.
I been reading many positive threads about going dark...figure I done enough in the last month to show her a taste of the new me. When I go dark, she will need a spotlight to find me
Journaling
Only 1 more day....The Inlaws are leaving and W is signing the Lease.
I know i should feel worse and I am wondering if I am that much detached? Or I am in Denial still? Or maybe because i know the DB, 180 and GAL are going to be positive for my R.
I know we shouldn't talk about the OM but I wonder what kind of person is willing to help destory a marriage or encourage it to happen. I don't know what they talk about but i do know this OM is single (never been married, no long term relationships). I wonder what kind of human being is capable of doing this. Ya i know the easy answer is selfish bastard, scum, etc. Makes me feel i should be doing something but I know i will just make it worse.
I still have a final question for myself. I still haven't discussed how exactly i want to handle the kids. Originally i didn't want her to visit M-F because it didn't seem stable for the kids (where she comes home from work, cooks, plays and then leaves at night). I thought that would be confusing for the kids. I figure, if we are truly going to be divorced, this scenerio wouldn't happen. I want her to feel, what it will be like with me going dark and having 50/50 custody of the kids. Right now, her moving out is just basically sleeping in a different room at night.
As for my W current mood about our R. All i can say is my W is soooo confused by what love is. Besides the physical signs of affection, she treats me with kindness. Buying me stuff i need, getting my food during dinner/lunch, asking me to go out or going out when i ask her, letting me physically give her massages(testing the waters) and being receiptive of my kindness (she thanks me, which she rarely did). In the past, she couldn't trust me with 3 kids, but now she is totally comfortable with me taking care of the 3 kids.
I could accept this R as a work in progress, it actually feels good. She mentioned she hasn't been this happy in a long time. Of course, she could mean her decision to move out.
What I wouldn't pay for a mind reading machine or a mind De-Fog machine
Considering all you have been going through it sounds like you are doing well for yourself LS. Your posts show strength and hope.
Where's the D process at presently?
The happiness she's jumping on is only short term, I believe. She will look back and regret trashing you and your family one day.
If you find that De'fogging machine I'd sure like to borrow it when you're finished with it.
I did better when my W moved out, without any notice, 9 1/2 months ago than i have been doing since she 1st got back in touch to schedule some visits with our S-9.
She went 97 days over S's summer vacation with only 1 visit and phone call to our S. I did better with the minimal contact.
Ed
Considering all you have been going through it sounds like you are doing well for yourself LS. Your posts show strength and hope.
Where's the D process at presently?
The happiness she's jumping on is only short term, I believe. She will look back and regret trashing you and your family one day.
If you find that De'fogging machine I'd sure like to borrow it when you're finished with it.
The D process is filed, she asked me to not sign it. Of course i was the one who brought up the D..I am debating if i should just sign it at the end of the 6 months or wait for her to sign it 1st. I am thinking, if things are going well, i need to sign it, to show her that I am moving on and I can't keep waiting for ever.
As for her happiness, she isn't having it right now because everybody is against her (except for her friends (new good friends). She is in a really bad mood and can't sleep because of her actions. But i think she is determined to ride it out because she thinks the OM is worth it or she thinks she really doesn't love me. All i know is my bounderies on the OM are "if he moves up" or "Physical sex" for me it will be over and I won't wait. I may slide on the Physical side..but knowing me, i am not sure i can get it over (weird because emotional affair i think is more damaging)
If i find that De'fogging machine...i will be sure to let you borrow it 1st
I did better when my W moved out, without any notice, 9 1/2 months ago than i have been doing since she 1st got back in touch to schedule some visits with our S-9.
She went 97 days over S's summer vacation with only 1 visit and phone call to our S. I did better with the minimal contact.
Ed
ED thanks for your thoughts. I am pretty detached right now. In my stich with her moving it, i will still be seeing her every day....I guess a blessing for others but for me, i really want to go dark. I want her to know what it feels like and if she can live with it, then we go our seperate ways.
I did better when my W moved out, without any notice, 9 1/2 months ago than i have been doing since she 1st got back in touch to schedule some visits with our S-9.
She went 97 days over S's summer vacation with only 1 visit and phone call to our S. I did better with the minimal contact.
Ed
ED thanks for your ton houghts. I am pretty detached right now. In my stich with her moving it, i will still be seeing her every day....I guess a blessing for others but for me, i really want to go dark. I want her to know what it feels like and if she can live with it, then we go our seperate ways.
I think you are right. She needs to feel the repercussions of what a D will feel like. In my own case, my W is following in the footsteps of how she was raised in an alcoholic and crack addicted divorced mother, who placed my W in the care of others repeatedly up until my W turned 12 and decided to move back to Parent the 2 younger children when her mom was in her worst addictive state.
So, my W's upbringing and parental influence did not model missing your family and children. Yours should show different results weighing on her conscience. They need to feel the consequences like a sledge hammer blow to shock them back into reality.
Ed
I read your stich ED and your situation is tough because it seems like your W is also abandoning her child. I guess based on your last statement, some of her habits is based on past life.
My W, in her Fog, thinks the kids will be okay. She told me this early during the Bomb. Tried to bring up examples of other family members or kids who grew up in a split family. I tried pointing out issues and she brushed it away. What she doesn't realize is, this is "OUR" kids and her actions will have effects. For example, in the 1st 2 months, she was spending alot of time talking to him on the phone, coming home late, etc....All this impacts the time she was spending with her kids. The guy lives far away. If he was closer, she would barely be spending time with the kids. The kids will eventually connect the dots.
I know we shouldn't stay married for the kids and I don't want a loveless marriage either. But i do believe we did marry because we were in love and we simply got caught up with life's challenges and failed to met each other needs. I know i can fill her lovebucket again.
Things that are positve about our R
-No verbally/physically abuse
-No Controlling behavior (she can go out anytime)
-We go on alot of vacations, we can afford to buy alot of stuff (she does most of the buying)
-No drugs/drinking issues
-Clean environment/Clean house
-We both make good money
-3 awesome Boys
What failed the R
-Lack of communication to our needs
-Married young (at least her)
-I didn't do the little things with love, took it for granted. -Like get off the phone, cleaning dishes, leaving my cup arounnd
-Lack of education on love (She wants to feel in love 100% of the time). She refers my love as "Family Love", but isn't that one of the best kinds of love???
-I wasn't the best dad, but nor was i the worst dad (Fog)
-My lack of awareness to make this relationship 50/50. There was times, i just want to go come home and relax. While i relaxed, she cooked and cleaned after working. I failed to realize we are both tired all the time.
-Lack of undivided attention to each other
Many of the negatives, I have already addressed by DB, 180, and GAL.....
But the problem right now is with Her. She needs to have self-awareness, she needs to live a life of hardship to appreciate what she had. She needs to know love isn't always about "Romance" and its not just always there. You need to work on "being" in love.
I know i spoiled her...and I have to let her go but before i do that my game plan is to give her happy times right before i go dark. I want to go Dark with her having good memories about us. I think I am at that point because lately we have been getting along better but i know as long as that OM is in her head (what if), she won't come back.
So i am anxious to have her move out (hence why i am helping). To allow her to experience life without our home. But then disconnect myself from her, so she might remember me for who I was, what I did and who i can become.
Ya i am scared...that my game plan will be pushing her to experience this too soon or too fast but I also don't want to wait around for 1-2 years for her to finally get it. Life doesn't stop.
What is your current game plan for her seeing the kids?
I struggle w this b/c my H moved out 3 weeks ago & has been at our house every day including almost the whole days on the weekends. I know this is GOOD for my boys but it doesn't give him a reality check of what life will be like down the line if OW is in picture.
Would like to know your thoughts.
The current game plan she wants is to visit the kids M-F anytime she wants and weekends she gets the kids. I assume the same thing for me (visit anytime). Of course this leads me to why is she leaving?
The game plan, i would rather go with is M-F, i get the kids since we agreed I can fit my schedule to met our kids needs. Friday night, she would pick them up and drop them off Sunday Night. I would allow visitation rights, if she gives me notification (few hours ahead of time). Essentially if we are going to split and continue the path of D, then i want to start what it would look like later. Because If I am with another women, i doubt she will be pleased if my EX-W just drops in anytime she wants. I sure as heck, don't want to see her with OM.
She wants to think, I am suggesting this for myself but it is for the kids stablity. I don't want the kids to be confused, where Mom is leaving the house every day to go back to her apartment. Or we act like a family everyday, then one day when her OM comes along, things change.
We can't do split days or split weeks because her job isn't flexible. Plus I am not into the whole 2-3-2 day format or every other week because of our job flexibility and I don't want to play maid (she originally wanted me to watch the kids during the day, as I work, when she finished work, she would pick them up)
The problem is...legally i can't stop her from visiting the house anytime she wants unless D actually happened. Hence why i am debating if i should just sign it as soon as it comes.
I hope to talk to her about this situation and make her understand we need to do what is best for the kids, not what is best for us. Because lets face it, we are selfish for our own needs. Yes, I want her to experience the pain of reality.
She got this grand picture if she is with the OM. That we would be co-parent and best friends and our kids will grow up fine with no issues. The truth is, if she leaves, she has her life, I have my life. We can co-parent, but I am not her babysitter. I already made it clear, if she goes on dates with OM on weekends, I will not baby sit for her, she needs to find someone who will help or she needs to baby for a baby sitter. Can't come to me and expect i drop my own plans for her.
So TG, we are both stuck in similar situations. I think the only way to stop them is to legally sign the D papers unless you can reason with your H.
Either that, start going out on days he is coming to visit the kids. Force your H to spend time with them alone, while you go out. Make up dates with girls/guys to keep yourself mysterious.
I figure, if my W won't stop visiting, then i will simply leave when she comes home. But I won't do this, until I am done wine and dining her like a date (after all it is a new R). Make myself mysterious, make her wonder what I am doing.
Maybe thats what you need to do with your H, make yourself sexy, go get a new hair style, dress nice and when he comes visit, you go out. Or tell him to babysit the kids, while you go out. When you get back, bring back a beautiful smile and glow of postive energy.
There are advantages with your H visiting everyday...entice him, help him remember that beautiful person who he married. Don't be needy be exotic. I hate to say it, but this is a game...and the OM/OW is doing things to entice our spouses. Its only fair play we do the same thing.
At the end if my game plan backfires...well its not like things can get any worse....haha..she left anyway.
Journaling
So as i expected today is the offical date my W will be signing the lease to her apartment.....Sure does suck to have that feeling.
Of course, she won't actually move out till end of Dec because between work and her weekend activites, she won't have much time to move.........
I also should feel happy that she is treating me pretty well but its actually making me feel worse. Odd?
So for fun..I signed up for E-harmony...I put down seperated and at the end, it says sorry we can't help you....but it gave me a personality profile about me...I found it to be interesting after answering like 100 questions.
This is my Emotional Stablity
Everyone, including you, runs into those moments when emotions rise up and you get caught off guard and have to deal with someone whose feelings are out of control. Life just comes at us like this. When you face such moments you are steady, composed, and as solid as a rock. While others might be swept up in the emotions of the moment, you are able to remain calm and collected. When others cannot think straight you remain unflappable and clear-headed. A fundamental truth about you when it comes to your emotional world is that you are very confident and very secure.
You may be as solid as a rock, but you are not as cold as stone. When life is calm and you are safe, you get in touch with your emotions. You laugh with your friends and share tender moments with those you're close to. You might tear up watching a movie or some tragic story on the evening news. And you're no stranger to fear, when the future is threatening or some danger sneaks into your thoughts at night, you feel the fear in the pit of your stomach. But you know how to get through these moments. You marshal your very competent brain, get your thoughts up on top of your feelings, and think of a way to cope. Before long you're calm and stable again.
Kind explains how i can detach pretty quickly.
This part is how i interact with people
Here's one important truth about you: you have a tender heart. Yes, you know that others need to learn to take care of themselves. Yes, you know they need to accept the consequences of their foolish or bad behavior. And sometimes, even when your instinct is to help them, you will let them fend for themselves and let them suffer the consequences of their choices or circumstances.
But most of the time you are there to help when they need you. If they are in trouble, you offer compassion and go out of your way to be helpful. If they need someone who will listen, you are trustworthy and sympathetic. And you are direct with them; when they need advice or counsel, you offer it in a straightforward, direct manner, without beating around the bush.
You're also smart enough to know that you cannot take good care of others if you fail to take good care of yourself, so you listen to your own wants and needs. If you've run out of sympathetic energy, you spend time restoring yourself. If you've ignored your own pain or frustration, you find a friend who will listen well, or go into your own private healing place and give yourself permission to focus on you.
But before long, you're back at it with your friends, offering a sympathetic ear and compassion on which they learn to trust, also giving straightforward advice and counsel when they ask for it. You do know how to take care of yourself, but your genuine interest is in taking care of others.
I don't know if its some magic generic profile but it sure seems spot on about me....
Maybe one day, i might have to re-register as divorced, so maybe i can get some hits...haha..wouldn't it be funny if you found your Spouses through this....
LS,
YOur last comment about finding your S through the e-harmony profile is HYSTERICAL!
About child visitation. The "D" word hasn't actually come up in any conversation w my H yet (except for his comments about it in general--"I wonder WHY people get D", "did you know so-&-so are divored? etc). So, visitation is what we decide it to be for now.
I actually had a "mock" conversation in my head about what I would say to H if/when OW becomes a more-than-at-work EA (not that that's not bad enough). It went something like this,
"H, I am hurt that you have made a decision to proceed forward with your R w OW. That means you have made a conscious CHOICE to be with her and NOT R w me. It also means that you are choosing her over the very core foundation of our FAMILY-US as H/W. And, b/c of that our FAMILY is no longer the same. Because you are choosing HER & HER FAMILY (she has 2 young children) over your own I feel that visitations need to change. I cannot move on w my own life if you continue to visit boys here while I am here hanging out every weekend all day long. While I always want you to be an important part of the boys' lives & will encourage their R with you, I cannot be part of these FAMILY visits, as our family is no long the same. So, I propose that we split the weekend & either you visit the boys here & I leave for the day OR you take the boys out for the day & find things to do somewhere else or to your apartment. DUring the week your daily visits after school are fine as we don't see each other much any way. I do NOT want the boys to EVER be living in two different homes, as I think that is best FOR THEM."
SOrry to go on, but really wanted your opinion if this conversation sounds okay.....or should I just go dark and no bring up the new arrangement (let him continue to visit but just leave if I feel like it & ignore him while he's here, etc).
TG
In my opinion, one of the reasons why my timeline is 6 months is because I am willing to see what happens. This even means if she has multiple OM (nightmare scenerio). The only thing I can do now is, continue to DB, 180, and GAL for myself. If she see's the changes, I hope she is thinking "I would be a fool to leave this marriage". I can't control her actions with the OM, her mind, etc. I only want to show that, I am there for her through this tough time and if its without me, then fine.
I am going to play your "H". If I heard your conversation this is the 2 things I would be thinking.
-I already made a decision to leave the family and most likely in my "Fog" thought it would be a happy ending.
-Your using the kids to make me feel guilty
When you are ready to "Drop the Rope", I suggest you keep the conversation short.
H, I understand what you are going through. I want to be there for your journey, I was there for during the last X months but I can no longer stand by you when I don't have respect for myself. I know this is hard for you and I know you have doubts if our M will be better but you need to find your answers on this alone. Once you found your answer, you know where to find me.
Going foward, I am going to file D (you can leave this part out). I want a 50/50 custody, as you are the father of the kids. However during custody, I think its best we spend time with our own kids as individual parent. This will allow you to have space and time with your children. This will also allow our kids to have a closure on our family, so they can heal. I know you want me to move foward and with this step, I can slowly move on. I still love you (even if you don't love me) and will always remember the happy times we had. I wish you well in your journey.
This is something i will be telling my W at somepoint, if i she wont' comeback. But once you say this, there is no going back, you got to keep moving. We don't know how our Spouses will react on this. They might be relieved, they might feel guilt later.
I suggest, you do this when things are on a good note, not after an arguement. Always leave on a good note. Never talk about the OW (only if he brings it up, but keep it short). Your not interested in the OW, your only interested in H/W talks.
The point is, dont' sound needy, don't talk about the OM, don't point his flaws out. State the facts, you care, you tried, you wanted him, you need to move on and you want the best for him regardless what happens.
Journaling
My W went on a business trip..Well i would like to think so but you know how all LBS at this stage think something is always up. Took a deep breath, looked at my 3 boys and simply told myself, its her loss, i get more time to spend with the 3 boys
Before she left, we had a great time. Spent some family moments with the kids, I flirted with her. I know she enjoyed it because she smiled alot and wanted to keep talking. When it was time for her to leave, she left slowly, meaning she was supposed to leave a certain time, but she kept extending it. She cooked and I cleaned. She tried helping me clean and I told her "Go sit your pretty self down and let this man clean the dishes and table". When she tried to help, i gave her a small bump and said your invading my kitchen with a smile
Of course she left, i asked her to text me when she got there, but she never did. I don't plan on texting her back. 2 can play that game.
In all, i tried to make sure every day i spend with her and the kids, its fun, its different.
To be honest, I can see how couples get bored after a while, its always the same routine. Work, comeback home, cook, clean, eat with the family, maybe TV, or some individual stuff. This DB, 180, Gal stuff has opened my eyes, with a little effort, you can make relationships more exciting by just doing something different. For example, flirting with your spouse, all of us probably just get used to our spouse and we simply stop flirting (especially after 5+ years of marriage), but if you can manage flirt once in a while, its amazing what a little can do. Flirting is safe, it doesn't intrude their space physically, it just tells your spouse "i find you attractive" and it makes you look "playful"
I guess thats why, lately I may have this great pain/love for my W, but I know with learning I am doing, my next R is going to be awesome.
Journaling
Today my W broke me. I dropped the rope on her.
We went to chucky cheese to spend time with the kids for 2 hours. I asked her to Come home to spend time with the kids because she has not spent time with them for the last 3 Days.
She says she is tired and doesn't want the kids to see her tired. Says she will go to Store to buy some stuff. I said, I can follow you home to make sure your safe. She doesn't want me to follow. Says she will text me when she gets back to her apartment.
2 hours later, I text her to make sure she is okay. No reply. After few more minutes she replies to say she is sleeping. So I asked her where is your address to your apartment. She doesn't give it to me. I said why are you lying to me? Says she went to a bar......................
That blew me away......lied about not having energy to spend time with the kids and then lied to me about sleeping and being out......
I had enough of the lies. I tried to DB and 180 but sometimes a man needs to know when enough is enough. I been supporting her through this ordeal.
Had enough, I threw all her stuff outside. Told her I am done, enjoy your new life. I can't take the lying, I can't take her attitude towards the kids....
Now I am debating if I can win full custody of the kids...
Lie about the affair, lie about being too tired for the kids, then lying again about something so stupid.
All she had to do was tell me earlier she wanted to go out......
Well now I dropped that rope and there is no turning back.
Now she is texting me with all kinds of excuses, how the apartment is lonely, how drinking helps her sleep, how she can't think......
2 months ago she was done with me......now she is texting me about her excuses on why she is abandoning the kids and how moving out is hard......
I wanted to just say.....I told you we can fix this but you choose to run and now all this pain is caused by your choices for "Grass is greener"
So you went from this:
In my opinion, one of the reasons why my timeline is 6 months is because I am willing to see what happens. This even means if she has multiple OM (nightmare scenerio). The only thing I can do now is, continue to DB, 180, and GAL for myself. If she see's the changes, I hope she is thinking "I would be a fool to leave this marriage". I can't control her actions with the OM, her mind, etc. I only want to show that, I am there for her through this tough time and if its without me, then fine.
To this:
Had enough, I threw all her stuff outside. Told her I am done, enjoy your new life. I can't take the lying, I can't take her attitude towards the kids....
Now I am debating if I can win full custody of the kids...
Lie about the affair, lie about being too tired for the kids, then lying again about something so stupid.
All she had to do was tell me earlier she wanted to go out......
Well now I dropped that rope and there is no turning back.
In two days because of a few lies?
What page in DR/DB is this technique on?
Giving up at any time is always our option. But doing it with such anger is not in our best interest.
I think you guys can still turn this around but you may have made it more difficult for yourself. I'm wishing the best for you and your family, LS.
Oh, and if it were me, I'd bring her stuff back in and apologize for throwing it outside.
Why would you get full custody?
Patience, validation and boundaries, firm but with love not anger.
Everyone backslides and the lies confound us LBS because the truth would be less destructive and easier to deal with.
Lies are an attempt to hide their own shame and guilt. They will have to address that themselves some day, but it will be easier to rationalize if they are confronted with anger and hostility.
Best of luck to you to find peace with your decision.
Ed
FY
Ultimately we did talk it out and I did bring her stuff back in. I did apologize but I also don't accept being lied too about the kids. This wasn't about OM, this was about our kids, which I got angry.
The thing is I was also under a lot of stress. Working from home, raising 3 kids, juggling all the household duties. She being gone for the majority of the week. The kids asking me questions about where mom is, me having to cover it up.
No matter how detach you get, life pressures still catch up.
I also know I may have taken 2 steps back. Which I am okay with, I already been at the bottom. No where to go but up.
I still standby that I what her happy.....but not at the expense of our kids. It's one of those moments where I felt anger.
But I learned something, she can't anger me anymore with OM, but I am still fragile when it comes to our kids.
Why would you get full custody?
I rather have 50/50 custody but right now my W is not mentally and physically health. She gets like 10 hours a sleep the whole week. I know she is under stress and I been telling her, she needs to focus on her health and stop worrying about everything.
My concern is, if she had all 3 kids and fell asleep while driving or while home watching them or etc....
She is a great mom, just right now she is going through her tough times.
The last thing i want to see is something happen on her time with the kids and live with the guilt.
I want our kids to have their mom...I won't deny that. But I do need to do what I think is best for the kids based on current scenario.
She would do the same, if I was not capable.
Not revenge or hate in this....seems like it, but its not.
Journaling
My W has spent a few days away from home. Its lonely I have to say, because well I never been alone for 15 years. My kids keep me busy right now but I do miss adult interaction. Everytime i talk to my friend or family...they just want to ask me that dreaded question "How are you feeling", which then leads to a rant...........
I have to say, there are some nice things about not having to worry about the sitch but I also learned, i still got alot of lingering pain around and how much i still miss her. Which is okay because i know even if I am getting more detach, the pain, the love will always be there in some form of fashion till "rope is dropped"
I been doing the best Dad routine. I cooked alot of meals, did alot of single parent activities with my kids. Its awesome and rewarding but at the same time very tiring on my body. Those boys keep me busy.
The only problem i have with me playing fulltime parent is..once the child custody (schedule happens)...I am going to really miss my boys. Only seeing them 50% of the time, is going to kill me....especially since i become a great dad and learned to priortiy my life around my family instead of work. Some of my feelings is anger towards my W because I will only be seeing my kids 50% less...another milestone i will have to deal with when the time comes.
Milestones for me
D-day - Check
Seperation talks - Check
Divorce Talks - Check
Spouse moving out - Check
Alone (adult) - Check
Child custody talks -In progress
Spouse says she will visit OM in Dec- In progress
Divorce finalized. - TBD
Every single crappy holiday - Thanksgiving..next christmas and new years and S-5 Birthday
Just when you think you couldn't feel any worse, another road bump...
So what other dreaded milestones am i missing and I need to mentally and physically prepare myself???
And I dropped another 5lbs...which is odd since I am eating...But i do look good since i been working out. I figure muscles would add more weight.
Question
My W came back last night to stay over with the kids. I cooked a nice meal, setup a bath.
While she was in the bath, about an hour later I asked her if she was coming down to spend time with the kids because they are about to go to sleep. She responded with a feisty remark.
I try telling her, I was simply asking a question and didn't mean interrupt her. I think I must caught her in the act of texting the OM. She was defensive to my question about coming down to spend time with the kids.
I got upset because anytime she needs to take her anger out, I am the one she steps on. I told her, it's not fair that I am the one who get stepped on when she gets in a bad mood.
Her emotions are controlling me.....she tells me she is not sure what to do....a few months ago she sounded really sure about leaving. I am trying to not let this affect me. But having to hear my W say, she is not sure what to do now, is nerve whacking.
I keep asking myself, do I really want to be in limbo? I want to stick to my 6 month plan but at the same time I read about how others used Plan B to go dark and it might be best for me.
Journaling
I begin worrying about my kids....right now I been pretty much a full time dad. The feeling that I might not see them everyday scares me.........I can't detach from my kids. They are so young and I feel like I would be missing a lot of little things in their life...........
I hate how not only do I have to deal with my W life changing event but it forces me to lose precious time with my kids. I know I screwed up in our marriage but do I really deserve not seeing my kids everyday....
I can't stop thinking about it......
My W and I haven't started our children schedule yet......I am trying to stall it....
Lost I was the same way. My S19 and S17 are my everything. I could not stand the thought of not seeing them everyday when they were as young as yours. Yea, they get on your nerves sometimes, but they are worth it in every way! Hold on to them for as long as you can and don't use them againist each other!
Hugs to you!
Journaling
The pain is unbearable for my kids. Just looking at my youngest rips my heart out........
My youngest just walked up to me to give me a kiss on the lip....its things like this i will miss and never re-live them again.
I am trying not to go from detach to hate.....but it's getting hard.
Journaling
just when I am detaching my W tells me she may need surgery.........i knew her health wasn't good since this all started...but surgery may take her 6 weeks to recover...
As if things couldn't get any worse....
Journaling
So yesterday I wanted to test out the waters on physical touching. I guess I reached my small goals....
Massage for her is possible now
She allows me to hug her, of course she doesn't hug back...but I do notice she smiles.
She asked me why I hug her, I tell her because every hug going forward may be the last one and I wanted to enjoy the moment.
Still detaching but my plan has always been to flirt with her like any other girl.
We also talked about R, I plan on having a monthly checkpoint for the next 6 months. She mentioned I am no longer a "knucklehead" so she feels better but her stance on "love" hasn't changed. Still feels conflicted with OM. But I think it's now more about MLC. She just isn't sure if she is missing out on life.
I don't want to talk about R but I felt we needed a monthly checkpoint for both of us to have an open and honest talk about our R.
I feel by 6 months I would have done everything possible and emotional I can tell myself I did everything possible and if my W is happy with her new life. I can be happy too.
I already started thinking about accepting a new job in a new field as my 180. Granted its not my field of expertise...but it would be a fresh start for myself. The only issue is the job would be in another country....I don't want to leave my kids behind and I know I can't take them.....I wish I could take them.....maybe in 6 months I can figure something out.
Pain and anger still their. With her health not being good, I feel more protective then ever.
It's amazing how we LBS when awaken feel so much emotion, while in the past we just assume things we okay. We all need to reflect in ourselves how we might have taken things for granted. I know going forward my next lover will never be taken for granted and most importantly I won't take my own needs for granted.
Happy Holidays!!!
Won't having those monthly checkpoint R talks just allow her to solidify her stance on moving on?
Each time it is discussed, she will further dig in her heels on the decision she already made.
Why don't you just observe and note the baby steps yourself?
Ed
LS, I like your plan, and it is similar to what I'm trying over here.
So yesterday I wanted to test out the waters on physical touching. I guess I reached my small goals....
Massage for her is possible now
She allows me to hug her, of course she doesn't hug back...but I do notice she smiles.
She asked me why I hug her, I tell her because every hug going forward may be the last one and I wanted to enjoy the moment.
Instead of "because it may be the last one" I'd suggest something more positive like "because I care for you and want to help you get through this difficult time".
She mentioned I am no longer a "knucklehead" so she feels better but her stance on "love" hasn't changed. Still feels conflicted with OM. But I think it's now more about MLC. She just isn't sure if she is missing out on life.
Keep in mind you're working from the inside, OM is on the outside. You actually have the advantage in that respect. There is a part of her, of all WAS's, that is unsure if leaving is the best choice. It's just not that easy to end a marriage, especially when the LBS is doing a fine job of DB.
It sounds like you're accepting that shifting her feelings will take time, and this is good. Patience is your friend.
As for the "missing out on life" thing, my wife is in the same place. Only they can scratch this itch. But we can encourage them to find constructive ways to fulfill this need to live life.
Won't having those monthly checkpoint R talks just allow her to solidify her stance on moving on?
Each time it is discussed, she will further dig in her heels on the decision she already made.
Why don't you just observe and note the baby steps yourself?
Ed
She was the one who wanted monthly checkups.
My point in this was to be open and honest.
Ed, the realization is, no matter what I say, she might move on. Do I think there is a risk it pushes her away further, yes. But I do think by having these conversations, it tells her, I am a strong guy who will support you but will also move on when I am ready.
I do have to make sure the conversation doesn't bad mouth her decisions or threaten stance.
Simplest form it's a message saying, ya I am your husband, I still care and support you. Nope I haven't given up, yes I have boundaries, and yes I can move on (but not give up)
Lets see what happens after Monday. I sent her an email so we have it in writing. If she responds in a negative fashion I will tone it down.
Keep in mind this is a 180 for me. I have always been one to hold feelings and just accept things....I am no longer hold feelings and accepting it.
What else I got to lose? She mentally and now physically left......
Thanks FY for your advice,
The one thing that scratches my head and maybe the ladies can provide advice.
My wife has done a 180 with the kids.......I been documenting her time with the kids and its not looking great.
For example
Going out vs spending time with the kids. In the past she would never leave the kids that long. Our official child schedule is not even in place yet. She can come and go anytime she wants.
She rarely calls the kids to even say goodnight. Sometimes a text to me, to tell them goodnight.
She gets upset around them easily..
She has yet take all 3 kids by herself (after in laws left)
She forgot to do a family project with our middle son, she went to a football game (something she was never interested in before)
I know stress and healthy is an issue now...but I just feel like she has totally abandon her duties. I see her buying toys for the kids but that's not exactly parenting.
Upset with me, I understand but to distance herself from the kids is awkward.
My boys, barely ask about her now. One son used to always sleep with her, he now sleeps with me.
Today, my oldest made a comment why mom is never home anymore.....
My wife knows she needs to get healthy to be with the kids but constantly going out and not sleeping isn't helping.
Just baffled....I figure most mom's would feel more motherly and want to be close to the kids, especially during these times.
Also had a close friend of our family who knows me and her, heard her story. The friend was baffled by her story. It was emotionless, nothing positive about me.
Still re-writing history after 3 months.....
The friend couldn't even explain what was wrong (she is practicing to be a licensed marriage counselor too). The friend hasn't even heard my side of the story....
I know I shouldn't worry but I care about her overall health and if it affects the kids, I am concerned.
Well that's acceptable if it is her idea to have the discussions. She should be the one to follow up on them though, rather than you having expectations like a puppy waiting for table scraps.
Things can not get any worse you say?
Sure they can. As Cadet posts yo all of us newbs originally, we are given a gift, a gift of time. Use it wisely.
As far as her distancing from her children, you should check out my sitch and see how inconsistent my W is and has been with our S-9.
Don't fret over what the mutual friend says or thinks. It's hard, but ignore the comments.
After all, she "Currently" wants her freedom and to get away. Do you think that she would be saying flattering things about you in that frame of mind? Feelings can and do change. That's s fact. Her feelings now are different from when you guys first got married.
Ed
Journaling
Things have been okay. The R talk went well I think...she still is confused. At one point I asked her if she was really done with us and she remained silent....I take that as a good sign. In the beginning she would tell me we were done.
I also let her know my boundary to her OM....I told her if things get intimate, I am done. I told her, even if she didn't feel obligated to our marriage, everybody has a pushing point.
She asked me what does intimate mean to me...I told her once you give your body, it's become full blown intimate relationship.
Not sure if that was smart but I felt she needed to know, I can only take so much.
Journaling
Things have been okay. The R talk went well I think...she still is confused. At one point I asked her if she was really done with us and she remained silent....I take that as a good sign. In the beginning she would tell me we were done.
I don't think asking her this question when she is confused and wants out is a good idea. It's putting pressure on her to come up with a final answer now. Are you sure you want that? You say her silence may be a good sign, but it may just be her not wanting to hurt you more at that moment.
I also let her know my boundary to her OM....I told her if things get intimate, I am done. I told her, even if she didn't feel obligated to our marriage, everybody has a pushing point.
Nothing wrong with this, we all get to chose what we will not put up with. Now you have to stick to your boundary/consequence or you loose all credibility. I hope you prepared yourself for the posibility of having to do this.
Wow, LS13, I respect you for setting a clear boundary w your W. I too I considering this my boundary, as my H's R w OW is not yet a PA (although I still feel an EA is just as bad or maybe even worse in some ways). I have NOT yet voiced this to my H, b/c part of me is NOT 100% sure about this boundary.
I agree w FY, though, in that you should be ready to follow this through if it should happen.
As you have a 1-year old son, have you considered that your W may be experiencing post-partum depression? A friend of mine went through this & she became a radically different person for a period of time and really wasn't interested in her "mom"role (either). Gradually she came back to herself, but she went through therapy and got on A/D medication. There was no OM.
Thanks FY and TG
FY I understand silence might not be good but compared to our 1st month, she clearly was able to tell me she wanted out. But to be honest yes I was pushing her to answer the question. Maybe because I am more detached and that I know my life will be fine with or without her.....I guess I wasn't scared to hear the outcome right? If she said she was done, I was already prepared to say thank you and move on...I want to stick to my 6 month plan...but If we do these monthly R checkups, I will ask the same question. One of my 180 is to stop hiding my feelings.
I won't bring up R questions unless we continue to do these monthly R checkups that she requested in our therapy session.
For my boundary...ya I am ready to follow through. I decided if she really did it, then that means she is happy. I have no right to deny her happiness and I refuse to allow myself to suffer.
Maybe I can heal from it later if she crosses the boundary, but right now it's my boundary.
Before this I told her my stance that I want her, I can be a great husband, I can make her happy again. I reinforced I am there for her.
Journaling
Today my W is going on her trip to visit her best friend and the OM might drive up to visit her.
I wished her well and to be happy (gave a hug). Said i will take care of the kids.
Kind of funny...I think I am getting really close on full detachment. I do still feel some pain, anger and jealous but its natural. I already know these feelings won't go away for some time and i just have to remind myself, i can make myself happy.
Not feeling sad at all today.....I guess because I told her my stance and she promised she would tell me if she crossed it. But i guess its also because I already expect the worse that she might cross that boundary and maybe my mind and body is ready to move on even without waiting for the 6 month timeline.
I plan on taking all 3 kids this weekend to my brother to have fun!!! I haven't seen him in a while.
Today was suppose to be an emotional rollercoast check point for me....but its not emotional...
I have also started thinking about life without my W. I been thinking about that career change more and wish i could do it but i would like to take my kids with me (in another country). I guess once everything is finalized, I can talk to my W about custody of the kids. I am thinking if she won't allow them to move with me, i can get them every summer vacation (3 months) and vist them during holidays and birthdays. But at the same time, i think its rather selfish of me to leave the kids like that...So maybe i have to put a hold on it. But its fun thinking about the possibilities of life without my W (who i still love dearly)
I finally did it. Yesterday I told my wife, I wanted to move on.
I told her, I can't be in this marriage, while she continues to see the OM. I wrote many other things.
I probably won't post in here for awhile. I am going dark with my W.
Unfortunately I thought 6 month plan would hold out but I can't explain it...i felt I tried everything, I felt I gave everything I could to just get another chance. I had to do this for myself and the kids.
I can't explain it, I was ready to really let go.
This morning when I woke up, I didn't think about what my W was doing, but thought about what I was going to do....
Thanks to everyone who heard my story and gave advice. At the end, we all have our own timelines. Remember we control it, not our Spouses.
Later LBS
Michele and the vets say we'll know when we are done, and it sounds like you feel you're there. I wish you and your family the best LS, stop by and let us know how things are going with you guys.
Unfortunately I thought 6 month plan would hold out but I can't explain it...i felt I tried everything, I felt I gave everything I could to just get another chance. I had to do this for myself and the kids.
I've made it 6 months from BD (6 months today in fact). But I fully relate to what you're saying. It's not that I want to give up on W, it's that when I really and truly detached I just lost interest in waiting for her. I'm to the point of having that same talk with my W, I'm ready to let go and move on with my life and start dating. I'm hesitant to have that talk right before the holidays though (I really have no idea whether she'll be upset or not, but if she does get upset I don't want her to be during the holidays), so I think I'll hold off a few weeks.
At the end, we all have our own timelines.
Exactly right. Some people may jump in to criticize you for not giving it more time, but just like a loving spouse can become a WAS overnight, so too can a LBS change their minds quickly. It's different for every individual.
Good luck!
Hi
Just to give an update. Status is still the same with my situation. Probably will recieving the D papers soon.
The only thing that has changed is, i decided to move to another country for a career change. Something i always wanted to do and try. My W took it well but it has changed our child custody scenerio, but my W and I are working on this together to insure our kids can spend time with both parents.
Going dark has been hard..she basically still is in the house everyday. I haven't given up on DB, GAL and 180. Still doing it today. Right now, I can talk to my W like a normal friend without wondering "What if". The weird thing is, she continues to treat me nicer than the beginning 2 months of D-Day. I try not to pay attention, as I just consider her being nice to be a reflection of our 15 years.
Of course a little of me still hopes it all works out (she knows this) but at the end, I will be okay no matter what happens.
With me out of the picture in a few months(when i move), I can finally get along with my new life and my W can find her happiness with OM.
Thanks again to everybody who has given me their advice and stories.