-http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2176833#Post217683
2-http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2188698#Post2188698
3-http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183898#Post2183898
4-http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2190758#Post2190758
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6-http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2198435#Post2198435
7-http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2202605#Post2202605
8-http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2206612#Post2206612
Time for a new thread. No changes in mt sitch so far. W is pleasant and I have not backslide in a while. Trying hard to GAL and enjoy life. Depression is almost gone with some mild sad feelings by noon time. Sleeping better and eating ok. I am able to concentrate at work again so that is a good thing. I have some new habits that I thought I should share. On weekends if GALing is slow I hit the bay log on to this site read and type. Really helpful. I also walk every hr or so when feeling sad or anxious.Ride my bike when the weather is good. D and I have decided to try new receipes every weekend. I really love doing that with her. I always feared messing up the kitchen thinking W would be annoyed. Now I don't care and do what I think is fun for the 2 of us. Really loving it. Going back to chucrh has also been great. Meet new people every Sunday. I talked to the Divorce care facilitator who also attends and I said I would like to volunteer. Need to talk to one of the pastors.
W and I had some weird ways of communicating, maybe it was all me. Dunno. But everytime I told her I wanted to do something she would either not answer and just look at me or kind of go around the question with no definitive answer. That made me nuts. Now I just do regardless of how she feels as long they are positive behaviors and things that allow me to spend time with D.
The D is full force ahead submitted all documents and court is sometime in March.
The one thing that has been happening to me latetly is that I have started to question whether I want to save this M anylonger. Some say it is normal, I don't know. But I am now almost rushing to get this over with? My W's L has not even submitted the intial paper work even though she was out the door in July. I have really no hope that this will work out for us so I am planning for the worst and looking to the future.
Rick sound's like you have made peace with this. That is commendable and I can only hope to get there. How long did it take until you started to feel better? Asking because I am a total mess, no sleep, no appetite, and crying daily.
Grmpy sorry to hear about you feeling badly. I know that feeling of your head always spinning, scared and dispair. it took me about 5 months to snapp out of the deep hurt and pain. I still feel down, don't get me wrong but I can function now. What are you doing for you?
I attended a divorce care group there are many in every state.
I attend church
I call friends (but don't talk about sitch)
I have hobbies
I hang with my D
I play video games
I work out
I ride my bike
I take rides to the ocean
I walk
I cook
I post here like crazy
I take melatonim for the sleep and it is also a mild AD
I see a C
You have to do stuff like that to get out of it. If all you do is think about W you will make this more difficult. Don't think of the future, thats is the hard part, but we don't know what the future holds. So don't waste your time. Hang in there
Hey Rick,
Glad to see you have another thread, good advice to grumpy there.
Rick,
If I can add my two cents to grumpy. Grumpy, it has taken me about 6 months to get to the point where I am, accepting of the sitch, sad, but detaching, with some slight backslides. Depression started to subside around 6 mos after the bomb, but all sitchs are different. Follow ricks advice and read, read, read other posts and threads, good luck!
Also to Grmpy, It took me at least 6 months before I wasn't crying at the drop of a hat, started sleeping better, felt like I might someday be OK. But during this time I was riding my bike a 3-5 days/wk, yoga, meditation, meetings,going places with friends and reading, reading, reading.
If you read 25's
recent post it pretty much tells the story.
Better days are ahead.
Thanks for checking in Gunny.
Got this from Divorce care daily emails.
"Anger is a defense mechanism where you take whatever is bothering you and is wrong within you, then you project it on another person and blame him or her for it. Frequently the other person accepts the blame, which satisfies you temporarily but doesn't solve the problem,"
Man have I been guilty of doing this^^^^^^.
"Resentment kills a fool" (Job 5:2).
"Don't you realize that this will end in bitterness?" (2 Samuel 2:26).
Rick, I hope you are doing well. I think you're really starting to gather some momentum with the GAL'ing. It seems to me like your DivorceCare and your church have been a catalyst for meeting new people and helping gather the GAL'ing momentum. Keep up the good work! I still think you shoud go out somewhere and go horseback riding just to mess with your W.
Who knows? It may be an out of the box GAL activity you enjoy?
I really feel like moving out and moving on. My L said no a few months back but maybe he is wrong. I just hate coming home now ..,that is new. I want to stop hurting this living together but separate is not working well for me. I love seeing my D when I get home but the rest not so much. I will talk to him again and see what he says cause I am tired and done. I dunno anymore guess I am tired of the rejection going on 3 years.
Rick, don't leave that house. Let her leave...she's the one that wants to end the family. Keep being the best person you can be in the moment, every moment...regardless of anything else. Do it for your own edification. And regarding legal issues...don't give an inch. Fight like hell for what's best for YOU.
W is driving me to get a colonoscpy in a couple of hours. That is pretty loving of her. I know when we are D I will have to help her also. I will gladly help her. I am no longer angry with her just tired of the sitch.
Yesterday I threw some stuff out and cleaned my closet and pack some stuff. Not sur if is the right thing to do but we have tons of stuff.
I threw tons of crap away...cried while I was doing it too. Couldn't help it. It needed to go though.
Stay strong Rick. You said you have felt rejected for 3 years and I'm sorry for that but I know you can make it another 2 months.
Best!!
Procedure went well nothing wrong with me. W wished me luck on my way to the or room. The nurse called her in and she sat by me while the sedation wore off. Best 45 minutes sleep in a while but my 1st thought when I woke was my sitch?
When I got into W's car she was cleaning the passenger side. Could not help but notice how filthy it is. Dirt and sand every where on 40k vehicle that is fairly new. I always critized her on how she maintained her cars. But it is not my problem any more so it really did not bother me. I can not help to notice the only thing she cares about is her job and the horse. Every thing else she has forgotten. Unreal
I know what you mean about her 'not caring' anymore. I felt it myself and it was hard for me to imagine/accept. Fact was that she had already started detaching long before I was ever even aware that things were as bad as they were. That's why it was so hard for me to understand at the time. She seemed hard as a rock to me then. She was.
rick,
Glad the test went well, I know what you mean about the best 45 minutes of sleep you've had, I have always said I wish I could replicate that deep sleep when needed!
Enjoy the blustery day buddy!
I wish I could replicate that deep sleep when needed!
Michael Jackson did!
"Michael Jackson did!"
Whoa now, Labug! Is there a message here we should be worried about?
Nothing to worry about in the proper setting, but MJ liked it so much he bought a doc to give him procedural sedation every night...at home.
It does give a great sleep.
Guys if u need a good 45 minutes sleep just get a Colonoscopy, ok.
Yeah but the fasting ahead of time is a real buzzkill!
Oh that's a pleasant thought, Rick! In order to get a sound 45 minutes of sleep all one has to do is to permit invasion of your nether regions by some alien object...."now this won't hurt a bit!"
Sounds lovely!
lol... 2tp... it only hurts you if YOU let it...
W is driving me to get a colonoscpy in a couple of hours. That is pretty loving of her. I know when we are D I will have to help her also. I will gladly help her. I am no longer angry with her just tired of the sitch.
What a great statement. Good job taking the positive for what it was.
Glad to hear all went well with the doctors. Keep on keeping on!
I just realized that I know six people who have or are getting a D. That is alot of peoPle but not one of the them wanted to work it out. Instead they started dating others and never looked back. Not sure why that came to me?
Today is way cold so nOt sure what to do for GAL. Maybe a ride to the mall or a historical village and have coffee. I asked D to go to a movie she was not interested. But she may have her BF to come over so I can.teach them to cook home made raviolis.
I just realized that I know six people who have or are getting a D. That is alot of peoPle but not one of the them wanted to work it out. Instead they started dating others and never looked back. Not sure why that came to me?
It's in the water....From Canada apparently....
The cool aspect would be for you to practice your validating and listening skills with those people, and see how many of them have fallen into the "victim" role.
I listen to people where I work that have gone through this, and the anger that they still spew is amazing...
And then I look back with zero regrets and thank God that I did it the right way.....
Then again, I am a people studier too....
Cold huh ??
Not sure what part of the country you are from...
Since you laughed at my Iggles line yesterday, you could drive to the "Iggles" hall of fame, and see their one players shrine...
Jus sayin....
I liive close to Philly? Lol
I liive close to Philly? Lol
I certainly hope not....I wouldn't wish that on anyone....
'Cept a visit to Passyunk Avenue occasionally wouldn't be too bad....
: )
Rick you crack me up.
However, I'm not planning on signing up for a colonoscopy anytime time soon for the sole purpose of getting 45 minutes of solid sleep. I am thankful there are no issues to report.
I just realized that I know six people who have or are getting a D. That is alot of peoPle but not one of the them wanted to work it out. Instead they started dating others and never looked back. Not sure why that came to me?
Rick, I think this speaks volume about the quality of the road you've taken. I don't like the chances of these people being in a healthy relationship. It doesn't sound like they have taken the time to work on themselves. This could've been you. But, no you have taken the time to work on yourself and you've come so far along on this journey. Well done, my friend.
Thanks JB that means alot to me. Hope you are doing well. Every time I think of u I want to ride my bike. But today is toooo cold.
Mach the funniest part is that while I was getting prepped my doctor showed up with a Jetts ID holder. Was thinking about the Iggles line and wanted to share with him. But he literally had my ass on the line so I said nothing.
Glad you are fine.
Also glad you were grateful she drove you, stayed there and was there when you woke up. Good attitude
but then you lost it when her car was dirty and you suddenly veered negatively and said she "only cares about the horse and her job...unreal"...what? How'd you get that?
She was driving you home!
I am very glad you did not say anything but you glossed over how you used to comment on that. Why did you ever say a word about HER car? She's an adult..I am just saying, try to notice how you can react differently b/c if you still THINK the same as before, it'll be hard to maintain changes.
Also you said you live near Philly...look up "Essential Experience" which is a workshop for personal growth. (It's not Landmark or Est or Imago)
It changed my life and rocked my world and no, it's not a cult or a weirdo thing. Very professional, even tax deductible and you will always communicate better. You will gain clarity galore.
And nope, I don't get paid to say this!
good luck Rick
25 I saw u mentioned E before and will take a look at. Yes I did notice the dirt in the car and I agree that thinking as before will hurt the changes. But that is the stage I am at. Noticing the thoughts. Hopefully I. Will move to the next stage. Not letting it bother me or even thinking about it.
Got a letter from my L yesterday that W has not turned in a case information statement due in November. I am not sure why and won't think about the reasons. But I have turned in every document requested as usual I obey and do as told. That needs to change. The urge to comply and meet dead lines has made me crazy and a jerk at times. So maybe a little procrastination at home and in my personal life is in order. I will maintain that side of me at work since they like it.
good morning rick. I will read up on your updates. I am betting u are off to church this am so have a peaceful morning.
U sound like a type A - always get things done yesterday type in that last post. that does work well at work but you're right, slow down some in personal life and let things ride a little.... (easier said than done for me. I have OCD) LOL
Hi IS glad you checked in. Hope you update your thread. Yes went to church.
The young man from our group came to church and he sat next to me. He really looks messed up. We hung out after service and the facilitator from group invited us to dinner on Friday. The go as a group. He and I went out to breakfast and he kind of told me alot about his R. I tried to talk about mine but he was overwhelmed by his sich tearing up at the place. So I just listened. He said he read DR. He owned up to alot of his baggage and said that that is where to start. He was pretty loud at the restaurant so I felt uncomfortable that he was so open about his personal stuff.
All I can say is while in church I asked God to help me make the hard changes. I know if I don't they will carry into a new R and I don't want that ever again. I was feeling pretty anxious today. Not sure why.
"The young man from our group came to church and he sat next to me. He really looks messed up..... He and I went out to breakfast and he kind of told me alot about his R.... He said he read DR. He owned up to alot of his baggage and said that that is where to start...."
You know Rick, you being there for that young man probably was a gift. You were able to lend an ear and perhaps some comforting words to someone in great pain. Did you see your old self reflected back at you in that young man? Anyway, good for you. Maybe allowing your friend to open up some will help him in the long run. And you too.
If you can, try to help your friend, he really sounds like he needs some guidance. You know, kind of like paying it forward,
"All I can say is while in church I asked God to help me make the hard changes. I know if I don't they will carry into a new R and I don't want that ever again. I was feeling pretty anxious today. Not sure why."
Really good to see you digging deep and working to make those positive changes. And, that you KNOW you need them in order to be a better man and H is a huge step in the right direction.
Why do you think you were anxious today? Do you have some big decisions coming up? An important conversation with you W perhaps? Maybe some quiet reflection will help to ease your anxiety. Hang in there!
I do hope what I say helps him. He really is in bad shape. Not only that she served him she fired him the same day. He worked for her threw him out of the house and got a restraining order. Pretty cruel if you ask me. He is on the fence regarding DBing.
A little journaling about church.
Really the best thing I have done for me in years. I have started to stay after service and talk to people. All of them who I never met before. pretty weird for me. The Pastor is doing a new series "The life of Jesus•all from a historical perspective. Fascinating how he explains one word in detail. Today he talked about the coming of Jesus and why he asked John to baptize him.
W seemed very angry today. She made me breakfast but did not serve it as she usually has done. I really never expected her to do it but she wanted it to. So I thanked her and served myself.
I think she does not like me reading and posting into my Iphone. I am always here on this site I don't go anywhere else on my phone. When she came into my bedroom to use the bathroom I was typing into my phone, she said hi to my dog and smiled at her, but not me?
Today I feel pretty good. Kind of feel in control of my life again. Good feeling. Going out for a ride and check out the town and grabb a coffee. Tonite I have IC. Tomorrow back to work after 5 days of doing nothing, which I liked.
Hey Rick! I've been wondering about the potential downside of our Spouses seeing us constantly on-line and/or typing into the message board. Could they suspect an affair of some type? Could this be doing more harm?
Just wonder what the wise ones have to say about the WAS who sees the LBS reading and typing into the computer/iphone/blackberry. Should we be more discreet?
Hey Rick! I've been wondering about the potential downside of our Spouses seeing us constantly on-line and/or typing into the message board. Could they suspect an affair of some type? Could this be doing more harm?
Just wonder what the wise ones have to say about the WAS who sees the LBS reading and typing into the computer/iphone/blackberry. Should we be more discreet?
Ummm.....no. You're doing things for you, and you need to continue to do that. Whether she sees tyou or not. She's having a bona fide affair and you're wondering whether or not you should be on-line or typing into a message board while she sees you???
Good point Antlers. I guess the other thing I was wondering about then is if for example one of their complaints is too much computer time, then wouldn't that kind of feed into that? Or screw it, posting for us is kind of our therapy? I don't know it seems like some discretion would be prudent.
I've always been concerned about my W discovering my posts. Is that why I've seen some posters change their name?
If one of their complaints was too much computer time, then I'd spend less time on the computer in their presence. I would continue to type into my phone though. Being on this site is therapeutic. Some discretion is prudent. I wouldn't let her discover your posts.
Just wonder what the wise ones have to say about the WAS who sees the LBS reading and typing into the computer/iphone/blackberry. Should we be more discreet?
I don't know if I am wise...
Are you saying ANYTHING that is untrue ?
Are you depicting your spouse in a degrading light ??
Are you showing anything other than love for your spouse, and a want to work things out ?
I wouldn't necessarily show my game plan, but I surely wouldn't be ashamed of being here...
This is for you ......right ?
Nothing untrue in my posts. I guess I wouldn't want W discovering my ghame plan. So I try to be discreet.
I am not worried about computer time since I never really spent that much time on it. In the contrary my W lives in front of her pc mostly for work. I think maybe is more that she sees me content which I am to a point. If she thinks I am having an A so be it. Let her wonder. But this place is a big part of my GALing so I can not stop coming here. I remember when my sitch happened she was getting TMs like crazy reading them in my presence and laughing. Not saying she is having an A. I don't think that is the case. But things have changed especially since I am not so depressed. I have not felt like crying in a month so things are looking better and can really focus on me.
One of her complaints was that I expected us to do things together. She can not complain about that any longer.
greetings, rick
you have a long thread, and while i could not read it all, i did have a couple of impressions from what i did read.
first, for what it is worth (keeping in mind i have not read your whole story), i sense your wife still has some emotional engagement with you. the fact that she can show some anger or irritation at what you are doing suggests this. also, she has not finished her own paperwork for her lawyer. while this may or may not mean anything on it's own, i encourage you to be aware of similar potential signs of ambivalence or mixed feelings on her part. since you seem to be following a GAL strategy it would not surprise me at all if the dynamics of your relationship are shifting.
does she ever initiate conversations with you, and if so, what are they about?
best to you,
onyourside2
Good question on yourside. IThe convos she initiates are usually about our D. -
and other times about politics. But they are rare. I think she is putting energy again into pushing me away as has stopped having breakfast with me but we do eat dinner together.
In a nutshell I acted like a jerk many times in our R. That is why I am here. Thanks for your observations
Met with my IC tonight. Best session so far. She called me on stuff and challenged me about my behavior with W. One theme was that I never was a true participant in deciding things for the family. That decisions were made about D but that I never was involved until the decision were made between W and D. I was always informed afterwards. She said that a mature man would have said something to W instead of becoming resentful and later becoming verbally abusive. Truth is that I was not aware as to how much it bothered me.Since this sitch Many things have surfaced that I never acknowledged or just denied.
We talked about what I have learned so far. I told her what I thought and she tSaid hat I have learned alot about me and said the she knew how painful growth was. No kidding.
She wonders why I stay at home and why I have not moved. My L said to stay I told her.That is it for now
what a good man you are, rick. i find your non-defensiveness very admirable.
based on what i have read, i am going on the assumption that the two of you are living together. i've been there. that is one challenging situation.
if that is true, it might give you an opportunity to do something pro-active that helps both of you (and if you are already doing this, maybe even a little more?): give each other room and space, and i mean that in the most physical sense of the word. no, i don't mean move out - i just mean for a while, see what happens when you really try to be away more. it might help reduce some of the mental exhaustion and tension that either of you may be experiencing. like any DB idea, it's all about doing something different, and then observing results to see if the idea is worth continuing.
a second idea is to change your communication pattern by seeing what happens when you really focus on safety when you communicate with W. try this: when she initiates a conversation about almost anything (except where she is asking for a response or action on your part i.e. "will you pick D up from school") listen carefully, avoid judgement of any kind (watch the non-verbals!), express respect for her viewpoint and then thank her for sharing it. and then don't talk unless she specifically asks you to. and then share your thoughts in very respectful way.
i hope these ideas are helpful and please excuse me if they are ideas you have already tried or thought of.
onyourside2
Thanks onyourside today I apologized to her for miss understanding her. I thought she was transferring hers and D's dental care to my dentist which is local. Our previous dentist is 50 miles away. She told me today that our old dentist died. I stopped going to him because my new dentist had a periodontists which I needed. The new dentist who rents the place ,she does not lIke so that is why I thought she changed .
Right now by biggest struggle is thinking about why I want to stay in this M. And the more time goes by the more confused I am.My IC says the same that I am delightful but maybe I have people fooled? Dunno but will take any words of wisdom
Onyourside I have been thinking of spending one or two nights in a hotel a nice hotel just to be away. What does everyone think cause that would be a gigantic 180 not to rush home and be with the family.Can go to the casinos and hang for a couple of nights. But I don't like gambling. I can always bring my xbox right?
Do it! What are you waiting for?
What's your motivation behind this? To GAL and have fun, to do a 180 and see if anything comes of it, to see if your W has a reaction???
i say if it's GAL which I think it is --- do it!!! You sound so much better than you did earlier in the sitch. You are focusing on you....growing and learning about yourself and realizing that you are worthwhile. I've thought a LOT about the time you asked me to put down 5 reasons why I feel I'm not worthy..... W is always telling me I'm such a horrible person because I don't listen to her (well, I have been working on that) and talk too much (granted, I have OCD), and that I work too much and am emotionally not growing fast enough for her. I read those and think....THOSE do not make me worthless. I'm working on learning how to be a better me.......
Rick you are doing the same. You are making so much progress and I"m glad you are my friend
Someday we should go to the EE 25 is always suggesting together.
Good morning rick,
Sounds like things are reving along for you. You sound like you are in a good place, much more in control of your sitch, although that can go back and forth. This weekend was pretty cold, nice and sunny, got some good walking in along the canal, plus some good company with good friends. Enjoy the day buddy!
good morning
i'm not surprised you are going through your own re-appraisal of your marriage. you are in the middle of turbulent times emotionally where much change is afoot - in how you think, how you feel, what you do. and you are also investing a lot of energy into your relationship and possibly much more than W is (at least for now). given all this, some mixed feelings and uncertainty seem very normal. i encourage patience with yourself and not feeling like you need to rush into decisions or positions.
i also urge caution with your IC and their appraisal of your marriage. they hear only one side of it. it doesn't mean they don't have valuable insights or opinions. it's just that they work with incomplete data. if you have a copy of divorce remedy there is thoughtful material on this subject.
if you spend a couple days away, it is possible either or both of you will find this very relieving. it might say something about the simple relief in getting away from a tense situation, it might say something about how you feel about each other. in terms of DB, though, i would look for whether it changes any of the status quo patterns you have developed, even if in a small way. if so, look for any positive changes you can reinforce with low key appreciation. or, perhaps she will initiate a conversation in which you can listen really well and then not respond in the manner you usually do. i am hoping she can open up just a tiny bit and start giving feedback about how she feels or what she needs without you having to pursue this.
because you two have been with each other so long, she probably went into deep shut-down mode. what you don't know yet is if you are persistent enough with your DB strategies whether she will come around. because of the length of your relationship, that is likely to take a while - but - it can and does happen. one thing i can say for sure, all of your hard work will accrue to your benefit, regardless of how all of this turns out.
btw, have you visited the section of this site on success stories? they can be very informative.
here's a question: how do the two of you currently divide household responsibilities and how long have you been doing so?
Onyourside I know about tha IC issues I actually feel incomfortable speaking for my W but she is not open to C. So I listen and try and separate me from W.
I have read all of the success stories several times and yes patience is the way to go.
regarding your question about division of chores.
I pay most of the bills. W pays property taxes, food and vet. We don't have a mortgage. She and I throw the garbage that accumulates but I take them out into the street when it is pick up time. W cooks six of the seven days and I cook on Wednesdays ( love cooking but I get home a bit late and she never complained) . That is the only day she goes into the office. She works mostly from home. She usually cleans the house, and vacumms once a week. I do clean after myself or the bathrooms .We really don't make big messes. She takes D to medical appoinments deals with school and homework. I get home too late to help with that. She does all of the food shopping. We all do our own laundries. She also puts the stuff into the dishwasher and puts them away. I take care of all lawn maintenance, painting and all repairs. I do it mostly myself. We have been doing this for the past 8 years since we moved to where we are now. We used to do it differently before our move and when W changed work hrs. Before I did most of the cooking and we shared pick up or dropping off of D at day care. We don't do that anylonger. Whenever we had large gatherings at home I did all the cooking and paid for at least 1/2 or the whole thing. never thought of all these stuff.
wonder why you asked and how can it be usefull?
that's perfect, rick! you have a fairly well structured division of chores and have practiced that division for some time. it provides a great opportunity to "shuffle the deck"/turnover the system without it having any apparent agenda. you would do this by - without fanfare - simply assuming some of the chores that she would not feel territorial about.
there are some who would say, and i might be among them, that any disruption of the status quo, even if it's seemingly unrelated to the problems or issues - can be potentially beneficial and almost always informative. you don't even need to know where it's headed for it to be useful.
one possible result is that it might create some confusion or uncertainty or her part. please understand this - i am not suggesting this as some kind of mind game - but i am suggesting that "confusion" disrupts the highly negative prism through which she has been viewing your relationship. you can't do this directly because she will likely become defensive or suspicious and simply maintain her negative mind-stance. so, instead, you do this with simple actions and then observe the results.
does she react at all? if so, how? does she seem to resist? if so, does she tell you why or can you sense why? if she asks why you are doing it, just say because you want to. if she objects, and she is used to you just folding, then do something different. if she objects and she is not used to you folding, then just say no problem, she can keep doing it. the theme here is pattern-breaking and observation.
i think you are wise not to over-pursue her and counseling. it is possible she will see your GAL results and other changes and be attracted to the process. let her get there on her own.
from reading back over your thread i'm so glad to hear your overall mood is better. rock on!
onyourside2
That is interesting. I started cleaning my plates and utensil but leaving them on the counter. I used to finish eating and just put them in the sink. Maybe I should clean them and put them in the washer but she may object since I don't know if the stuff inside is already clean. She has not said anything about me doing that. I know that serving her her food would not be a good idea she is very paranoid/territorial about what goes on her plate.
I think I usually folded if she objected to something. What I have done a few Wednesdays is made up my own decision as to what will would have for dinner. Usually she will make something the day before and I would just heat it up. She has not said anything about it either. Maybe tomorrow I will make something new. Gotta think more about this and what I can assume.
I have a great idea, maybe I leave all the bills for her to pay, that would really break a pattern.
Thanks for the suggestions. Nothing to lose at this point.
One more thing I can do is feed the dogs and let them out before she wakes up. Will see what she says.
Rick, sometimes it doesn't hurt to do something different if what you're currently doing isn't working. You're right, what do you have to lose? Hang in there, man.
W and I ate dinner last night and I keep feeling that she is looking at me. The one problem is that I don't like making eye contact. So I guess I should look at her when I have that feeling? Last night while eating I started convo just mentioned that today would be very cold. She said "I heard". So I shut it. She is now eating faster and finishing her meals before me. So I have noticed that she waits until I am done. After we finished I cleaned my plate and while she was by the sink she said "look I made chicken for tomorrow" She had a smile. I said thank you. I guess these are some positives.
I had posted earlier that 3 females that work for me have R trouble. Two are LBS and one a WAW. The one LBS's D was final last week and she looks very sad. The other LBS separated recently. Her H had a 2rd child with his mistress. She is about 28. She seems to be ok but also sad. The WAW was seen with a new guy last Saturday. She has been separated for about 3 or 4 months and seems happy as heck? Just thought I'd share.
This morning on my way to work I felt anger towards me. I was thinking about how this sitch kicked my a@@. I have always been a strong person and could not believe how weak I became because of it. Hopefully this is normal. Other than that my day is good so far. I really need to GAL on weekdays. It is hard because of my schedulle but need to find at least one day to do stuff with others. Weekends I have covered. I was thinking about dance lessons. I think I saw something near by so will search. When I was 18 I took jazz dance lessons just because I was interested in a girl there. She ended up sleeping with my friend so I never learned how to jazz?
Jazz dance is so... 5 seconds ago!
Maybe you should try Zumba?
I give up. I am tired and done. I want what ever is going to happen to just happen. Get it over with.El Fin the end finito please. I am really beginning to dislike her very much maybe the D was the right thing to do. But she needs to hand in the paper work. I think I had it. I wonder if I ever really loved her. Wonder if I really showed her true love. Dunno I don't know what that really looks like anyway.
Maybe that is my problem? Sorry to vent But I do not know what I want anymore
How about getting out of the funk you're in. The thing about not being able to look at your W makes you sound like a sad puppy dog. It would make anyone uncomfortable. It's hard as hell and we all go through the same mood swings you do.
What can you do to pull yourself out of the hole you feel you're in?
good morning rick
i saw that you made three posts yesterday and as the day progressed you seemed to get more demoralized. can you identify any specific trigger for this?
as someone who has been divorced myself, and known others who have as well, it seems that your emotions are normal. i would not associate these feelings with a lack of strength. but i also recognize we all want to have a sense of pride and dignity with ourselves - and that is why it's so good to see you have a GAL strategy going on. among other benefits, it will help restore that sense of liking yourself and believing in yourself. well worth doing for that reason alone.
i think if you could fast forward 10 years and look back at yourself, you would really like yourself - for taking your marriage and family seriously, for being willing to improve yourself, for taking on very difficult emotional tasks.
only you know how long you can do this and when it's just not worth it for you. i do think you are a good observer - the small things you noticed the other night are exactly the types of things you need to notice. no one single thing is going to tell you either way where your W is. yet, if you start noticing a pattern or a trend with these small things, the data becomes more meaningful.
i encourage you - if you have it within yourself - to keep trying out some of these ideas (even if your heart is only half in it). GAL, doing small things differently, listening for feedback, not over-pursuing - these are things you have proven to yourself you can do even though they are all difficult in their own way.
my instinct (take it with a grain of salt, please) tells me your W is curious about what's going on with you.
i hope you let your friends and supporters here know how it's going today. and i'm sure they're with you all the way, no matter how this unfolds for you.
onyourside I think the biggest trigger is the feeling that she does not care. I know she cares she has told me so even when this all happened. But her actions say something different to me. I have always complained to her about it and I now know that my expectations were off. She is who she is. I am still working on not being resentful. I have to say that living under these circumstances is really really hard and crazy.
The thing is that latetly I have been thinking back as to when we met. She had recently broken up with her BF.( I was also M at that time). Not sure if she broke up before or while with me. But she never spoke about him or any feelings it was as if he never existed. So I get the feeling that she will do the same to me. So I guess I go into fight/flight mode?
I really think that she has wanted to be free since 2009 and my outburst over the summer was the catalyst. She is very quiet, stoic, and proud. I am the opposite, loud and emotional. But have managed to keep it in check for the past few months. So that is where my head is at today. Thanks for checking in
I should mention that when I got angry and loud with W and D in June after hearing that she fell 4 classes and everything else that followed. I have been thinking that I have been a crappy H and father. But this past weekend my D and I were playing video games and I asked her about her spedning so much time in her room. She started remembering things we did when she was just a couple of years younger. We had a pick up truck with an awesome sound system. On Wednesdays when W went to work I will some times take a vacation day or just call in sick. We wold hop on the truck on a hot summer day listen to loud music and hit the beach or go crabbing or fishing. She really liked doing that kind of stuff with me. And we did it often. So maybe I have not been that bad of a dad. i have never gotten angry with hwer before, sure frustrtaed when she did not wanted to get up but not like I did in June. I promised her that that was the 1st and last time.
i feel for your daughter, too, rick. it's pretty common for kids to show their emotional distress over their parents marital problems by tanking in school. i hope you can consider that. and i'm glad you are giving yourself credit for being a good father.
in my first marriage, my former W would complain that i did not care about her. that really frustrated me since i knew i did. yet - as i later learned - i was showing care in dollars whereas where she grew up care was shown in euros - if you get what i mean. my efforts at care did not translate well because she did not associate those things with caring behaviors. so ever since then i've tried more to understand how to translate my good intentions and love into a form the other person regards as such. clumsily at times, i might add!
so - it's possible that there is or was more of that there with your W then you recognize. plus, "quiet, stoic and proud" probably has a harder time showing their care and regard in any currency!
i do hope that, for everyone's sake - you can be the proactive one to create some room and space and help take some of the tension away for all. btw, where do you and W sleep in your household?
oys2
"in my first marriage, my former W would complain that i did not care about her. that really frustrated me since i knew i did. yet - as i later learned - i was showing care in dollars whereas where she grew up care was shown in euros"
onyourside that^^^^^ is it. My W cared for me with buying things, cooking or doing things. She is very much into money and gift giving. Don't get me wrong I liked those things also but she was not very emotional or physical which I am.
Intially I was sleeping in our great room's couch but could not sleep so one night I went into or bed where she was sleeping and she freaked out. So I stayed in our marital bed and she relocated to the living room and sleeps on the couch. We do have a spare room with a bed and TV but she has opted for the couch?
Regarding my D she failed all of those classes before any of this happened. But I wonder now if we were having problems and my D was being affected. I don't remember arguing much during the last couple of years until my out burst this summer. I am gone most of the day and when I am home I just watch TV down stairs and say very little. My W is usually in the office working or out at the barn for about 3-4 hours everyday except Wednesdays.
It seems clear to me that your W's love language is receiving gifts and yours is physical touch. Yet she has probably always spoken to you in her love language instead of yours. And I would guess you have always done the same thing?
Is there a way given the circumstances of your present sitch, to speak to your wife in her love language? Maybe a thoughtful book, a nice plant that reminds her of the coming spring or a bag of carrots for the horses. Something not too personal, but thoughtful nonetheless?
If done in carefully measured doses, it might not be interpreted as pursuit.
Just something to consider.....
2tp I don't think she would be receptive to anything at this time.
Journaling
Today it hit me that this is real and have to accept it. Last night W and I had dinner and she laughed at some of my political jokes. Last night was the 2nd time while watching TV where Divorce was the topic. They were talking about Newt and the 2 Ds he went through. They were talking about the expenses and the emotional cost to children. I know she heard it.
This morning I got up earlier to leave for work. Saw W for about 3 minutes and told her to have a good day, she said the same. She has stopped having breakfast with me but continues to eat dinner. She continues to leave the front light on for when I get home and asks me what I need from the supermarket. She no longer stays away from the same shared space. I guess these are some positives.
This week 2 different people asked for my weight loss secret. Had to come up with quick lies. The gave me looks of disbelief. Told them I work out more, walk more, stopped eating bread, which is true. Did not tell them that when this happen I could barely eat. Tha's for me to know.
Galing this weekend entails church car maintenance and BBQ at my brother's house. And ofcourse some Xbox. That is all for now
How many Gamer points do you have ?
690. And getting proficient at MW3. How bout you?
1895..
I don't play nearly as much as I would like to though.
There seems to be an in-house take over by my son (11)...LOL
Mostly L4D and L4D2.
Something about taking the head off of a zombie that is so relaxing....ya know ?
1895 guess you should thank your S, huh? I know mine is low because I mostly play multiplayer. And taking the head off of anything is relaxing, I agree.
LOL...
Actually most of mine is mine. He has his own live acct. And he is much more of a gamer than I am.
We have spent countless hours playing together, and some on line. We have pretty much worn out one set of Rock Band controllers and I wish I owned stock in a battery company throughout this. It was time well spent though, and I'm sure we aren't finished yet !!! I would certainly be one Bluemach1 if we didn't have that time together in the past. He has certainly taken it a bit farther than I ever did though.
What other games ???
My D and I loved Rock Band. She is so good with the drums that she destroyed them. She actually plays many different instruments and is very good. We play together often which is cool. We will prob do that tonite.
Well I have many games but the ones I play the most are COD Balck Ops, MW2 MW3, Battle Field 3. I also play online with my 17 y/o nephew and his friends but they have more fingers and eyes than I do?
LOL....I think you may be right.
I always said that if you want to figure something electronic out, give it to a kid...
A nod is as good as a wink, to a blind man
This morning I got up earlier to leave for work. Saw W for about 3 minutes and told her to have a good day, she said the same. She has stopped having breakfast with me but continues to eat dinner. She continues to leave the front light on for when I get home and asks me what I need from the supermarket. She no longer stays away from the same shared space. I guess these are some positives.
Rick, you have to save up the small positives while (like JS said on my thread) guarding your heart. It could the first small signs of a turnaround or it could be nothing. You have the freedom to choose whether something's a positive or negative, so why not choose the positive?
One big positive, though, is everything you've done for yourself. You would have never done those things for yourself unless you had been pushed into the situation you're in. You have used this negative situation to your advantage. Good for you!
"You would have never done those things for yourself unless you had been pushed into the situation you're in."
JB Isn't that^^^^the sad truth. 2 years ago I was stagnant had accomplished everything I set myself to accomplish. Had nothing to look forward to (in my head). This sitch is like a new beginning. A new start I guess. Even tho it hurts like heck.
As someone said "never let a good crisis go to waste".
hi rick
you have keen eyes and ears for not over-pursuing or over-initiating. when the time is right, as previous poster noted, it's all about starting small. very small!
let's look at the "negative information field", or things that have not or are not happening. W is not racing to complete divorce. W is not going out of her way to avoid you. we don't necessarily know what those things mean, but the more things like that you can put together, the more likely it is there's a reason behind the pattern.
let's say there is a marital distress continuum that each partner has. on that continuum, let's say, for arugment's sake, there is a mythical "point of no return" that some people reach. these would be the people that go through and complete their divorces. whether some of those could have been brought back to life by savvy DBers, we'll never know.
let's say, also for argument's sake, that there is a point just short of that where timely and thoughtful strategies and actions can put the relationship back in play. sometimes in these situations the potential walk away partner notices short term changes. they are intrigued, but still very, very cautious. and they really want to see if it will last before they show any intentional outward sign of interest in the relationship. it is possible you are in this position.
if so, give credit to yourself, as it means you've really done some things right - including not over-pursuing and your GALing.
i hope these things really raise your stock of self-respect.
if you have the emotional resilience to keep your DB approach alive, let me offer or reinforce these ideas:
1) continue to be thoughtful about creating breathing room for you and W to reduce tension.
2) continue to look for small ways that you can change day to day living patterns and see what happens as a result. you don't even need an end result to target. the point is, do these things for the sake of doing them and observe results.
3) if you see improvements, don't move in too fast. i doubt you will - you seem very good at this part.
4) stay steady and do not get sucked into the repetition of ancient arguments or negative ways of interacting. that's the perfect time to be pro-active and show mastery of new dance steps.
and have a great time this weekend. you have great supporters here with lots of great ideas. i hope mine help as well.
best,
oys2
Onyourside you provide some interesting and provocative thoughts which I really appreciate. I know W and when she makes up her mind she follows through regadless of consequences. Seen her do it many times. I don't believe this M can be saved but DBing has helped me deal with this and look at myself. I will continue to have hope where there does not seem to be any. Not much else I can do right now. I am not much of a follower but in this sitch I have given her total control and I will sit back and cooperate as I have. Thank you again
You are doing a great job of GAL Rick. A good example for us all.
thanks, rick.
at the end of the day, you are the only one who knows how much you can do and how much energy you can invest. none of us can know that. any thoughts i offer are offered with that in mind. and as someone who has been in your shoes - twice - i'm only too happy to offer my unconditional support regardless of how your situation evolves.
and the one thing i can say is that all my pain was not for naught. it made me look into myself, too, and i am very thankful for that. anyone who can do this in your situation not only has my support, they truly have my respect as well.
keep us posted.
oys2
Thank you onyourside. I have noticed that W is very cold in the morning. This morning I made myself breakfast as I had an appoinment and W has been sleeping in later. I noticed also she was rubbing her neck. I guess the couch must be getting to her. For some reason I feel uncomfortable around her not sure why? Almost as if I don't want her around me. Our landline phones have a missed call alert on their screens. Went to clear them and noticed several of
W's relatives called on the same day. That is very odd. Something going on.
Well my GAL plans changed due to the huge amount of snow, 1 inch. So no BBQ today but maybe tomorrow. So instead had plan B. Teach D to make stuffed calamaris. Divorce care group starts in a week hopefully there are no new people. This DB thing is so crazy.
Ps prediction is that the Giants take it but what do I know
For some reason I feel uncomfortable around her not sure why? Almost as if I don't want her around me.
I think this can be pretty normal. You've made all these positive changes in yourself. She has not made any positive changes and she acts like she doesn't want to be around you. That can be very wearing. You don't want her attitude to drag you down.
I don't believe this M can be saved but DBing has helped me deal with this and look at myself.
But you don't really want THIS marriage to be saved, do you? You'd like your W to try a new marriage with you, but what's the point in saving the old one? So if this next step moves you closer to getting a new R with your W... well, maybe that's worth something.
WHG said it perfectly and if I could only find a way to get my W to understand this is my goal, she seems convinced that I want the old marriage back.....I must look stupid to her. Lol
if I could only find a way to get my W to understand this is my goal
But that's the problem isn't it? It's OUR goal as in our own personal goal, not "OUR" goal as in the collective of husband and wife.
I believe the WAS has to get to a point where trying a new R/M with us is the best available option for them. Better than being single, better than the OM/OW, better than moving through a sequence of guys/gals trying to find the "right" one.
If there is one thing we have going for us is that, at some point in time, we were the "right one". So at least we have that...
if I could only find a way to get my W to understand this is my goal
But that's the problem isn't it? It's OUR goal as in our own personal goal, not "OUR" goal as in the collective of husband and wife.
I believe the WAS has to get to a point where trying a new R/M with us is the best available option for them. Better than being single, better than the OM/OW, better than moving through a sequence of guys/gals trying to find the "right" one.
If there is one thing we have going for us is that, at some point in time, we were the "right one". So at least we have that...
This was really, really well put!
Told W that I would not be eating dinner at home tonight. She gave me a long look? Left home at 8am to get gas go to church and have enough time to type this before service. Did not say were I would be all day. Going to bros house as a friend is going back to LA.
Had it not been for this site and me not wanting I would have been having As. Cheating comes natural to man in my family. I mean what better excuse does some one have than your W sleeps on the couch for 7 months? But instead I have done the total opposite. Go to church IC and have confessed to all my weaknesses. Go figure.
Had it not been for this site and me not wanting I would have been having As. Cheating comes natural to man in my family. I mean what better excuse does some one have than your W sleeps on the couch for 7 months? But instead I have done the total opposite. Go to church IC and have confessed to all my weaknesses. Go figure.
Do you think having affairs would have done you some good? That cheating comes natural to men in your family doesn't make it OK. Your wife sleeping on the couch for 7 months still isn't an excuse for cheating. Granted, a lot of people in those situations would have...that doesn't make it right. Going to church and seeing a counselor speaks of your strength and goodness. Not much to figure out on that!
True antlers believe me cheating is not what I want. Talk about coincidence. Today's service was about Temptations. Coincidence not so.
Has cheating really been a temptation for you in the midst of all this!
I never even considered doing something like that. I was really concerned with trying to make things better within myself...cheating would have been the worst thing I could have done.
It is something we were thought to do when having R problems. I would not do it or want to but I have to acknowledge it. My father used to tell us that real man always had2. I never agreed to that and neither has my brother.
And cheating will not make any of this better
And cheating will not make any of this better
That's for damn sure! My counselor even advised me not to date until after my divorce was final.
Always good to hear the voice of reason. I have been given the green light by my H to date. Maybe he hopes I will find someone else and move on. I went out yard sale hopping with a man friend. It just made me uncomfortable.
I don't plan on dating for awhile. Despite how lonely I am and yes, women miss sex too!
Hope you all have a nice day!
My father used to tell us that real man always had2. I never agreed to that and neither has my brother.
Seems like an example of how you didn't want to be....
As an aside....re-read my post to you from Friday. I think you might be missing something.
How was the weekend ?
Mach my weekend was pretty good hung out with my brother and some friends. So I GAL till I passed out last night from exhaustion. I intially did miss it but I do get it now.
I think it is time for a new thread soon.
Yep, new thread soon....
Still not settled with the G-men being there....
At least it's not the Iggles huh ?
hi rick
i commend you for a) making your own growth as a person part of your GAL strategy b) trying to do things differently for the sake of doing them differently.
two days ago you referred to your wife giving you a long look when you said you would not be home all day. is that normal for her? and what has happened between the two of you since that day?
oys2
Thanks for checking in oys2. Yes since the sitch that was new. In addition I never go out on Sundays this was a1st. Never said where I was going only that I would not be home.for dinner.
The only thing that has happened is when I came from work on Monday and as soon as I walked in she told me she had a class today tomorrow and next week. Other than that nothing. The one thingI have noticed is that her family is calling very often which is also new.
I also started a new thread