Divorce looming #11 - DivorceBusting.com

Looks like 10 locked up. I finally made it work. Traffic was terrible.

Looking forward to seeing my kids tonite.

Thia morning is hard. I'm tired of feeling this way everyday.

Kevin

I hear 'ya man! And I sympathize with 'ya too! I'm tired of feeling this way as often as I do. I'd like to not think about her as often as I do, and not wonder where she's at or what she's doing as often as I do...but I don't know how to 'not' do it!

Originally Posted By: kevin4dallas

Looks like 10 locked up. I finally made it work. Traffic was terrible.

Looking forward to seeing my kids tonite.

Thia morning is hard. I'm tired of feeling this way everyday.

Then get help. Seriously.

Did you see the last post to you made by 25?

You have three lines in your post and two of them are nothing but negative.

Traffic is always terrible in most large cities. And while it may not seem like a big deal to complain about traffic its just another example of you always saying or feeling something negative. Be grateful you have a vehicle to be in traffic - some people cant afford cars. Be grateful you have a reason (job) to have to sit in traffic. Be grateful you have two eyes that you can see out of so you can drive. Be grateful you have arms and legs that work properly so you have the ability to sit in traffic. Find some way to turn all your negatives to a positive.

This morning is hard... I am tired of feeling this way... blah blah blah. GET HELP. MAKE AN ACTION PLAN. CREAT IMMEDIATE, SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM GOALS. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE FOR FIVE MINUTES. CHANGE YOUR OUTLOOK. TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELF AND SEE WHAT A DRAG YOU APPEAR TO BE.

You want to see hard? Go volunteer at a cancer ward for kids. Do you think they are saying "its hard" each day? NO! They stay positive and shrink their disease down so they can enjoy each moment of life. Go volunteer at a nursing home where some people havent had a visitor in years. That is the true meaning of being sad and alone.

If you were meeting your W for the first time today in this mindset do you think she would find the constant complaining and 'woe is me' outlook attractive or intriguing?

I think 25 made a very, very crucial point. How much longer do you think people will listen to you or try and help you or try and point you in the right direction?

What will you do in the next 8 hours to make things "less hard"? If you have time to post here from work, you have time to make a contact with a counselor. Certainly you have a primary doctor you see from time to time. Call him/her and get a name for a counselor. Today. If you dont have a primary doctor call Catholic Charities and find a counselor. Call somebody and find a counselor. Its your only option at this point.

Nobody is going to keep giving you hugs or support and keep telilng you to "keep your chin up" or any of that. Those are things we all need to hear early on when we are left behind. But then something else needs to happen.

As of right now you should be fully prepared for the idea that once your move into your place and get a few paychecks your W will be finalizing the divorce. You should be mentally preparing yourself for that as well as making a short and long term plan for yourself as an individual, co-parent and single man. It is the only way you will survive then grow.

It is very hard to understand the way you approach things. You said y'day that you could not get a BA job because you dont have the appropriate or necessary certifications. Yet, you applied for a BA job last night. It seems you reach for things that for one reason or another simply are not possible at this moment in time. That way, you can tell yourself you tried and you can remain stuck and somehow justify it.

Why not make a plan about your career? Focus on your job NOW for 12 months. On the side study and save money for the classes/certifications you need. You are at a job for 2 days and already you are not satisfied, it isnt what you want, its not exciting. It is very annoying to be around people that are never satisified. Just because something isnt ideal it doesnt mean it cant be an amazing experience.

In your last post it was almost like you were mocking all the advice by saying "plans were made by the person I cant mention for 24 hours". Just because you dont say her name you are still obsessing and making chatter and reference to your W.

Not saying her name isnt what we mean. You need to shrink her down so she is nothing to you at this time. The only way you can work on you is to make her nothing.

You cannot live on the hope your W might want to get back together. Right now that is not an option. You cant just live for your kids. You cant just live for things you "hope" will happen.

How lucky are you? How many people would kill for the chance to be able to totally reinvent themselves at the age of 34? (I am also 34 btw). You have a new place to live, a new job and a chance to really become the MAN (not the husband or father or son) but MAN you want to be. What an opportunity!

I guess that was negatve. Sorry about that.

Kevin

Originally Posted By: CityGirl

You cannot live on the hope your W might want to get back together. Right now that is not an option. You cant just live for your kids. You cant just live for things you "hope" will happen.

We know that's right, but it's easier said than done. It's hard for some of us to imagine life without our wives right now.

Of course it is not easy! Who ever said it was easy?

I have been in my situation for going on 14 months. My H left me after a decade of marriage, he left me when I was very, very ill and he was having an affair. Do you think I dont cry often? I do! Do you think I dont miss him? I do! Do you think its not hard for me? It is!

It is hard not to hope and wish and its even harder to think of our lives w/o our spouses. But hoping and wishing wont help or change a thing. If you want a shot for YOU and for your spouse, you have to get past hoping and wishing and imagining and do something else.

You need to work on making your life as busy & happy as possible, so you will be happy with or without your life. Join in some of the church activities so you can make friends. Do some volunteer work. Start a new exercise program. Look at this as an opportunity. Strong, confident, and happy is attractive, complaining: not so much... Karen

Originally Posted By: CityGirl

Of course it is not easy! Who ever said it was easy?

I have been in my situation for going on 14 months. My H left me after a decade of marriage, he left me when I was very, very ill and he was having an affair. Do you think I dont cry often? I do! Do you think I dont miss him? I do! Do you think its not hard for me? It is!

It is hard not to hope and wish and its even harder to think of our lives w/o our spouses. But hoping and wishing wont help or change a thing. If you want a shot for YOU and for your spouse, you have to get past hoping and wishing and imagining and do something else.

Wow! It really helps to talk with someone like you who has been at this for a long time! My wife left after nearly 2 decades together. I've cried a bunch...but it's been a while since I have. I miss her like crazy though. It's hard foe me too! You have my respect for hanging there as long as you have! I do hope and wish...a lot! I'm just not ready, I guess, to think of life without her. I want to do whatever I can to have another shot with her! I'm trying to get past hoping and wishing. I just don't know what to do other than what I am right now...and being more patient.

Originally Posted By: karen43

You need to work on making your life as busy & happy as possible, so you will be happy with or without your life. Join in some of the church activities so you can make friends. Do some volunteer work. Start a new exercise program. Look at this as an opportunity. Strong, confident, and happy is attractive, complaining: not so much... Karen

I'm trying to stay as busy as I can...happy though? It's just not there right now. I'm trying to look at is as an opportunity, but that's hard to do. Seems more natural to look at it as a necessity...brought about as a result of this separation. I want so much to be strong, confident, and happy...but I'd have to fake it for right now, to be honest! Thank you for responding...I need some more input and perspective.

How do I find a BA mentor. I want to be a BA on a software development project. Will reading books on it be enough to get me started at a position like that until I can start certification classes?

Kevin

Originally Posted By: kevin4dallas

How do I find a BA mentor. I want to be a BA on a software development project. Will reading books on it be enough to get me started at a position like that until I can start certification classes?

How do I know? If this is your true passion as you say it is then why arent you being proactive and investigating it on your own? I dont know how to become a BA because I am not one.

I truly am concerned for you. I really mean that in a very heartfelt way. You gloss over everything and focus and obsess on things that are so secondary to avoid tacklking the most pressing and urgent issue.

Instead of worrying about finding a BA mentor why arent you finding a counselor? That should be your first order of business. Forget about your "dream career" for now. You cant even make it to work without having a meltdown about "how hard" things are. Do you see from an outsiders POV how frightening that is?

What is even more frightening is you dont seem to get it or care. If you are not obsessing about your W and how bad you feel you are obsessing about a career path that right now, you arent in place to pursue due to lack of education. Why dont you take all that obsessive energy and channel it into you getting well. You need to learn how to focus on the most necessary issue first and that is you. And once you do learn some tools to manage yourself THEN you can branch out to other areas of your life such as your career.

Honestly, do you want a BA job so bad because you think it will impress your W or is it your true career passion? Why are you so hell bent on having it RIGHT NOW? Why arent you just as hell bent on getting yourself well? Why dont you answer any posts made to you about goals that are reasonable and attainable?

You keep asking how to do something and we tell you and you just ask more questions and nothing gets done!

Fire up that blackberry you like so much, find a counseling program and get in to see a counselor ASAP. Once you get some tools for your own personal management then fire up that blackberry again and focus on the next task (career research).

Until you get yourself on a better path you will keep reaching for distractions and keep cycling around. C'mon man, throw us a bone and at least address ONE thing!

Sorry, that was supposed to be happy with or without your wife. Teach me to type in a hurry!

Karen

Originally Posted By: antlers

[quote=karen43]
I want so much to be strong, confident, and happy...but I'd have to fake it for right now, to be honest! Thank you for responding...I need some more input and perspective.

Looking back, I think I was happier when I started GALing and maybe some of it was "faking". Not on purpose, but if you have to cry or laugh, I would usually choose to laugh. A year later, I realize some of my happiness was kind of faking it, but the funny thing is if you keep busy and faking it for a while, you'll find that you are really happy and it's not a fake. Find some activities that you enjoy, or challenge you, or help others.

Try to do stuff that you wouldn't have considered doing a few years ago. I'm a wimp, and I started doing martial arts, and shy and started doing musical community theatre. You're so busy trying to learn new stuff you don't focus on your problems or WAS as much, and that's a good thing.

Karen

It just sucks. I don't really feel like doing something that I'm not interested in. I don't like faking either! But, I've heard "fake it till you make it"...maybe it'll work! I hope things are better with you, and if they are...I'm glad!

Originally Posted By: antlers

It just sucks. I don't really feel like doing something that I'm not interested in. I don't like faking either! But, I've heard "fake it till you make it"...maybe it'll work! I hope things are better with you, and if they are...I'm glad!

It's not that I'm doing things I'm not interested in. Stuff that I thought was "not my style" like martial arts and theatre wound up being GALing that I really enjoy.

In the past, a lot of things I didn't do b/c I was focused on my kids instead of me, or was maybe too scared to try new things. Now that I'm challening myself I've found a lot of these are enjoyable. If I didn't enjoy them, then I would keep trying new, different activities until I found something I did enjoy. There's so much out there. Volunteer work for example, doesn't sound like fun, but you wind up helping people, making friends. The more challenging stuff that you do, the more self-confident you get also.

Well, we could all sure use a big dose of self-confidence...especially now.

Dont you see though that the ONLY person in the world that can give you self confidence is YOU?!

Self confidence is a gift you can give yourself. It seems the only way you think you can be confident as a man is if your W wants you back. That means you are relying on another person to feel good. Thats dangerous as she might not come back then what?

You said you work in an ER, right? I sure as heck would not want to go to the ER and have somebody taking care of me that did not appear to be self confident!

Just like one builds financial wealth one can also build self confidence "dollar by dollar". If you cant manage a "dollar" right now to start building can you at least manage a "dime". What is one small thing you can do right now to fill yourself with confidence? Any ideas?

Lets say that feeling of confidence only lasts for 5 min. That 5 min. "high" wil give you momentum to find your next "high". Eventually it will become part of your life!

Originally Posted By: CityGirl

Dont you see though that the ONLY person in the world that can give you self confidence is YOU?!

Self confidence is a gift you can give yourself. It seems the only way you think you can be confident as a man is if your W wants you back. That means you are relying on another person to feel good. Thats dangerous as she might not come back then what?

You said you work in an ER, right? I sure as heck would not want to go to the ER and have somebody taking care of me that did not appear to be self confident!

Just like one builds financial wealth one can also build self confidence "dollar by dollar". If you cant manage a "dollar" right now to start building can you at least manage a "dime". What is one small thing you can do right now to fill yourself with confidence? Any ideas?

Lets say that feeling of confidence only lasts for 5 min. That 5 min. "high" wil give you momentum to find your next "high". Eventually it will become part of your life!

It's just hard to have self-confidence when your wife leaves you!

I am self-confident when it comes to my job. I've been an ER nurse for 23 years, and there is nothing that can come through those doors that'll shake me. This is different though...this brought me right down to the ground. I'm not accustomed to this. I do ER nursing on a routine basis.

I'm sure it'll have to be step-by-step. Confidence in relationships only comes from having relationships. Where does that leave me? That's the last thing I want right now. I'm married!

I feel, right now, that my self-esteem, self-worth, and self-love have suffered a big hit. I feel like I'm by myself in the world.

Quote:

Confidence in relationships only comes from having relationships. Where does that leave me? That's the last thing I want right now. I'm married!

This your problem this has NOTHING to do with a R it has EVERYTHING to do with YOU, period.

Okay, lets break this down then.

That is awesome you have been an ER nurse for 23 years! You said there is nothing that can "shake you" at work. That sounds very fearless and powerful to me! But I bet you didnt feel that way your first day on the job. I bet you felt nervous, unsure and maybe kind of scared. But you knew that you couldnt present that to your patients or else they would not trust you to care for them. So you had to act like you were a seasoned nurse that could handle it all.

How can you parlay that same formula to your personal life? You say you are not accustomed to how you are feeling now. Were you accustomed to all the craziness that is brought to the ER when you first started? Probably not! But eventually to you it became "old hat".

And I must disagree - confidence does not come from other relationships. It comes from the relationship you cultivate and nurture with yourself.

Lets say you were alone in the world. Did you ever see the movie with Tom Hanks where he is stuck on an island for years all alone? Sure, he freaked out for a while but eventually he taught himself how to survive with what was available to him. He made a "friend" out of a volleyball! Certainly you have more resources available to you than a volleyball, right?

Quote:

Lets say you were alone in the world. Did you ever see the movie with Tom Hanks where he is stuck on an island for years all alone? Sure, he freaked out for a while but eventually he taught himself how to survive with what was available to him. He made a "friend" out of a volleyball! Certainly you have more resources available to you than a volleyball, right?

That is one great analogy...Plus that last sentence cracked me up for some reason.

Geez antlers. You sound as bad as me. Pull yourself together man. You have a good career. Probably a house and probably some retirement saving.

Do you have kids? If so, they need you to be strong for them.

You are far better off than others. One of my biggest worries is money ans a house now and I have no retirement.

You are going to be ok. Enjoy your kids if you have them. Go to meetup.com go to church.
Read the bible. Pray and trust in God. Seek friends. Find a hobby you will like.

I like scooters. I'm going to look more into them and scooter groups. Be positive in front of your wife and confident even when you hurt the most.

Cry in private not in front of her.

Get a grip. You have a lot in place for you. Work out. Read DBing and DR.

Be the better option at all time. If w wants more money, that's beyond our control right now. But we can be everything else.

You will be ok. Go get some meds.

Kevin

Kevin, Practice what you preach.

Originally Posted By: volleydog

Quote:

Confidence in relationships only comes from having relationships. Where does that leave me? That's the last thing I want right now. I'm married!

This your problem this has NOTHING to do with a R it has EVERYTHING to do with YOU, period.

I hear 'ya.

Everything you say makes perfect sense. Thanks.

Man, I'm just having a little tougher time right now than I have had recently. I appreciate your response...don't mean to hijack your thread. Sorry.

If it is helping you then I don't mind. Everyone needs support and help in this.

I couldn't be more thankful for this sight and everyone on it.

Kevin

Geez antlers. You sound as bad as me. Pull yourself together man. You have a good career. Probably a house and probably some retirement saving.

So a house and retirement savings is what helps one find internal happiness as a human being? Those are "things" and yes, they can offer you stability but at your core they arent what one needs to be happy, complete and whole as a person.

Do you have kids? If so, they need you to be strong for them.

Part of being strong is to be positive and the other part is being able to make and execute plans.

You are far better off than others. One of my biggest worries is money ans a house now and I have no retirement.

You have identified your worries. What is your plan to tackle those worries? Have you created a budget to begin to save so your "worries" become "goals" and eventually a reality?

You are going to be ok. Enjoy your kids if you have them. Go to meetup.com go to church.
Read the bible. Pray and trust in God. Seek friends. Find a hobby you will like.

All good suggestions that we all should be doing if we are in a stable marriage or not.

Get a grip. You have a lot in place for you. Work out. Read DBing and DR.

Be the better option at all time. If w wants more money, that's beyond our control right now. But we can be everything else.

You will be ok. Go get some meds.

I truly hope you follow your own advice. I really do hope that for you more than anything.

I have to admit, its frustrating when you gloss over all that is being posted to you. And I hope you plan to create and post some solid goals soon.

Its easier to give advice than take it. I spent an hour talking to a lady friend last night who has been in a relationship for 3 years that has turned into him using her. She isn't married to him. I gave her all kinds of advice to help and try and move on.

I'm at home with my girls tonite. That is nice. I have a list of things to do here that was left for me to take care of this weekend.

I was looking at BA certifications today and talked to someone at villanova university. The cost is $5,300. I don't have it right now as they would want $1,200 in May. It would be for a master certificate of completion. You can't actually take the real certification test until you have been a BA for 5 years which I don't quite have that. Maybe a year or 2 of actual BA work. Its a little frusturating. Trying to debate if it is worth it right now. If it got me a real BA job in SDLC, then it would be totally worth it. But will it?

Goals at the moment are to get moved into my new place, do a good job at my job, and try and continue to look for a real BA position.

Personal goals. The usual, leave W alone. Be a great dad. Figure out how to put a future in place. Get W back some how some time. Heal my family and never return to the old Kevin again. At some point meet people I guess.

I need to break myself of this emotional attachment. Like Antlers says, until I can do that, its hard to enjoy much else. I still have alot of worries. This is a contracting position right now.

More goals, continuing to not cry in front of my kids. Stop trying to analyze the situation to death. Figure out how to move my career forward while still trying to obtain a life.

I wish I could date. But I can't bring myself to do it. I just have a real moral issue with it.

My kids were glad to see me. I was glad to see them also. I'm tired today. The drive to the house was so short compared to what I have been driving from where I live. That was nice having the short drive today.

What do you do for a living CityGirl? Just curious.

Kevin

It is much easier to give advice than to take it.. no doubt about that! Part of the reason I keep posting to you in such a vehement fashion is because I can feel your pain coming through the computer screen and it takes me back to where I was not that long ago. And many wise people who had been through a similar experience (being left and enduring an affair) tried up and down with great effort to get me thinking in a new direction. And for a long time I didnt listen, I blew them off, I figuerd I knew better and I was *certain* if I waited long enough my H would come back. He never did and he has no plans to.

Once I decided to at least try and heal myself and make some sort of life for myself I thought it was so hard I was going to die. In those early days my list was so basic it was ridiculous. It went somthing like this:

Wake up. Make coffee. Brush teeth. Walk dog. While walking dog think of one positive thought. Feed dog.

That is how bad of shape I was in. As I said before early on I was having such severe panic attacks I was afraid to go outside or drive. The situation became very severe and on top of all of that I was dealing with a very serious physical health issue.

So when I say I know what it feels like to be at the absolute bottom of the pit, I mean it. Things were so bad for me that I couldnt even remember when I had taken a shower over the course of a week. It's not easy to share things like that on a public forum but maybe it will help you see that you are not alone.

For me it was even worse because I am self employed (I do business planning & research for small companies) and I work in a home office so by nature, its isolating. I didnt have an outside job to go to each day that would force me to get out of the house or even get dressed!

The only place I felt safe being was home or at my sisters house. I fell into a terrible depression. I have a mailbox in the basement of my building and one day the mail lady knocked on my door because I had not picked up my mail in close to a month and I didnt even realize it.

I could go on and on but you get the picture. I was the poster child for the absolute lowest of the low.

I still have miles and miles of personal self improvement and work to do. I still struggle with detaching and acceptance. I still feel very sad but I know that I will be okay even if divorce was not what I ever wanted.

House and retirement "can offer you stability but at your core they aren't what one needs to be happy, complete and whole as a person."

Maybe they offer some DEGREE of stability but I've seen enough retirement accounts wiped out and enough homes given back to the bank by otherwise very successful people I know personally to realize otherwise. It's just stuff. It comes and goes. There are no guarantees.

How did you finally move on CityGirl? Are you dating? Are you still waiting?

Funny you mention a home business. I have been trying to figure out a legit home business that I can do on the side while working to help generate extra income to no avail. What kind of business do you run from home?

Kevin

Originally Posted By: kevin4dallas

Its easier to give advice than take it. I spent an hour talking to a lady friend last night who has been in a relationship for 3 years that has turned into him using her. She isn't married to him. I gave her all kinds of advice to help and try and move on.

I'm at home with my girls tonite. That is nice. I have a list of things to do here that was left for me to take care of this weekend.

I was looking at BA certifications today and talked to someone at villanova university. The cost is $5,300. I don't have it right now as they would want $1,200 in May. It would be for a master certificate of completion. You can't actually take the real certification test until you have been a BA for 5 years which I don't quite have that. Maybe a year or 2 of actual BA work. Its a little frusturating. Trying to debate if it is worth it right now. If it got me a real BA job in SDLC, then it would be totally worth it. But will it?

Goals at the moment are to get moved into my new place, do a good job at my job, and try and continue to look for a real BA position.

Personal goals. The usual, leave W alone. Be a great dad. Figure out how to put a future in place. Get W back some how some time. Heal my family and never return to the old Kevin again. At some point meet people I guess.

I need to break myself of this emotional attachment. Like Antlers says, until I can do that, its hard to enjoy much else. I still have alot of worries. This is a contracting position right now.

More goals, continuing to not cry in front of my kids. Stop trying to analyze the situation to death. Figure out how to move my career forward while still trying to obtain a life.

I wish I could date. But I can't bring myself to do it. I just have a real moral issue with it.

My kids were glad to see me. I was glad to see them also. I'm tired today. The drive to the house was so short compared to what I have been driving from where I live. That was nice having the short drive today.

What do you do for a living CityGirl? Just curious.

Kevin

4 X 8 TIME...GET A HELMET...
I'm having a VERY DIFFICULT TIME reading your posts now Kevin. Who the hell cares about a f-- ing BA job NOW? You wrote things to Antler that almost made me scream out, b/c you are telling him to "Get a grip" and "get some meds" b/c those are the FIRST THINGS YOU SHOULD BE DOING NOW BUT REFUSE TO DO SO AND YET TELL HIM TO DO THAT!?...

OMG. Don't you see how unhealthy your thought pattern is? WE ARE WORRIED THAT YOU ARE LOSING IT B/C YOU DON'T SEE THE HYPOCRISY & IRONY OF THOSE COMMENTS...you are blind.

I've given you every analogy (my sons' wrestling match when he beat the state champ who kept being distracted by his previous mistakes that he MADE MORE OF THEM....) and every post I send to you takes a lot of time and thought, Like CG's and Stucks and Volleys' and so many others here....

Did you even READ MY LAST POST TO YOU?

Antlers, we all hear what you are saying about your pain but you're letting your grief induce a thought disorder in you, like Kevin's. Don't repeat his mistakes. Where the head goes, the heart follows. I've told Kevin that at least 4 times...but so what? He won't think about that....

When you say "I can't help it' -- that's BS. YOU CAN HELP IT. LOVE IS A CHOICE. Antlers when you say "this is hard" ask yourself who you are talking to...b/c it is to people who have ALL been where you are now, so WE KNOW IT'S HARD and somehow we are able to help others going through it later on. WE rose above our pain to grow and hard as it was and is, WE DID IT...and we each had a moment when we chose.

Your wife may choose to stop loving you and may not ever CHOOSE to come back. She may SAY she "fell out of love" and "can't help how she feels"...maybe you've heard those words as so many of us have....and no doubt you cringed and thought, "screw "FELL OUT OF LOVE" and CHOOSE to love again!!" Choice exists but it must MUST be exercised...but that goes FOR YOU TOO....so CHOOSE TO FEEL DIFFERENTLY AND START THAT BY THINKING DIFFERENTLY...WHERE THE HEAD GOES, THE HEART WILL FOLLOW...
YOU CAN CHOOSE TO MOVE FORWARD....does not mean give up, but it does mean BUCK UP...stop the complaining "woe is me"...please read my post Antlers, the last HUGE LONG one I sent to Kevin,

only to have him gloss over 99% of it.... which is an insult btw...and the frustration I feel here, must be much like Kevin's w's and I have to wonder how you K, cannot see the pattern YOU HAVE of doing this.

Kevin, Like my sister S the SVON queen, you are the SVON king...you refuse to use your own oxygen mask and the rest of us only have so much air...you wonder and wonder why ME? why why???? Stop wondering. The answer is clear. You need to change the way you view yourself and the world in general. Your paradigm is a big drag. CHANGE IT....we cannot do that for you. Get help and don't speak to Antlers like that and think you are helping HIM when you are a glaring example of hypocrisy....didn't you feel a tad embarrassed to write that to HIM when WE have been writing that to YOU For weeks and you have ignored us?

Like my sister, S, who chose to have a life sucking aura around her, which we ALL eventually avoided, you will lose friends (wait, you say you don't have any...) and posters...and already have lost some. My sister created more loneliness in her life and prolonged the normal amount of pain, into an amount that was FAR disproportionate to anyone's. Both Antler and you are falling into an ugly self centered whiny pattern and you have several people here telling you to STOP IT.

WE HAVE ALL BEEN DEEPLY HURT....Antlers, (I'll check your thread later) but yes, I get how a LONG M ending can hurt. I GET IT...been m longer than you and Kev. It's like a part of you is removed, but that's only a feeling and it does pass IF YOU WILL LET IT...

And Kevin I want you to see how you sound at times. If I hear you tell someone ELSE how much easier they must have it than you, or ONE MORE TIME about how sad it is that POOR KEVIN HAS TO "START OVER" NOW at the ripe OLD age of 34 which is 15 years younger than me....I'll just quit posting and wish you well.

I mean BFD!! You'd think you had built some huge massive fortune all on your own, only to lose it due to someone else's thievery AND that you were a paraplegic who was helpless AND age 70, who has to live in a shelter.... earlier you admitted You were lazy in your M and it is not the divorce that costs you, IT WAS YOU!! You refused a more demanding job and fobbed it off on your w so now SHE does more work and MAKES more money...AND so what anyway?

And now, without much OR ANY debt, you have a job that pays for an apartment with furniture and some benefits and you DARE To complain?????!!!
That's offensive to ME...
My house is likely WORTH MUCH LESS THAN WE OWE KEVIN....SO WAKE UP! (and NO we do NOT qualify for the "new mortgage deals" now will we allow it to be foreclosed so we'll have it on our backs for a long time and OH WELL....so don't even go there). WE'RE "SCREWED" B/C WE ACTUALLY MADE OUR PAYMENTS AND THE HOUSE IS A BIG FAT DRAIN....and we own a home elsewhere for my mom to live in, and THAT one is also a sucking chest wound bleeding us financially but I won't complain b/c I REFUSE TO LOOK AT MY FINITE TIME ON EARTH AND SPEND ANY OF IT WHINING ABOUT THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE...NOT ONE MINUTE OF IT...[/b.....so PLEASE please shut up about not owning a home or having a retirement already or liking your new job. IT's REPULSIVE TO READ.

People around here would LOVE to be EMPLOYED RENTERS like you AND have a job like you...but no, YOU have it worse than ALL The people here no matter what, that's your assumption...Geez you can be really narcissistic..oh and "Retirement?" Did you have a million dollars saved that is now all gone because you gave it to Bernie Madoff to manage? Oh, you didn't? How much was "taken" from you????? What's that? Not much? Oh....I see..... Once again you are simply NOT dealing with reality. It's a thought disorder Kevin and you need help.

I already told you that many people HERE ON THIS BOARD have lost fortunes (including yours truly?) and are much older than you are... BUT YOU DIDN'T CARE... and that sucks for US.

You're a healthy man with a marketable job skill and your wife wants a divorce. That hurts but it happens all the time, but you ( and maybe Antlers), sit there in the poop and rub yourselves into it and I HAVE to wonder if this is how you got here in the first place...Kevin, in your case I believe it IS....I think this is how you were with her...sorry, but damn it, STOP IT. It's exactly what she wrote about and you ARE that way and you actually pretend not to know why she left? You want to blame OM? Stop that.
.No one is shooting at you or telling you where to live or work or worship, no one is hacking your family to death b/c they belong to the wrong tribe, and you are not starving to death and you WILL see your children again soon, b/c you were lucky enough to have them and b/c no one abducted them or raped them, AND b/c they are healthy like YOU are (do you EVEN know that those bad things I used for comparison are happening TODAY AS YOU ARE READING THIS...to OTHER REAL PEOPLE who ALSO loved their wives???)
Rwanda, Sudan-Darfur, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Central America, Chechnya, Somalia, part of OUR own country in Appalachia and elsewhere...people are suffering far worse through NO fault of their own and yet they are HAPPY to be alive...

My brother in law died in September, at age 42 of a brain tumor. In the YEARS he fought that, with 5 (FIVE) brain surgeries at Johns Hopkins and 3 rounds of Chemo and countless clinical trials that were experimental, and radiation, I can honestly say to ALL OF YOU that I never heard that man complain about how unfair life was, ONE TIME...NOT ONE TIME...he'd say he was "a little tired" and I would learn he had been vomiting 15 hours straight. He held a full time job until 90 days before his death. Did chemo on Friday afternoons and went back to work Monday, though he was "entitled" to return later to work...He lived longer with his particular tumor than any previous patient and Johns Hopkins has written his story up in an article for the New England Journal of Medicine...I think his attitude was HUGELY IMPACTING and he saved others lives with what they learned from him and his kids admired him....NOW HE WAS A MAN I ADMIRE...AND HE'S GONE...so

GET OUT OF YOUR A-- AND INTO THE WORLD!

Timelines for how long it takes....see my signature Antlers...YEARS my friend, but I think it's worth it. We are leaving this week for a trip as a family (house sitter coming in a minute) and I would NOT have predicted that a few years ago, but again, it took YEARS...
This is the last time I'll say this to Kevin, but [b]"Don't use a butterfly's timeline--they only live a few days--so their timelines are hours, USE A MAN'S TIMELINE b/c you are men"

And b/c you are men, you should read the posts we so carefully and givingly send to you, with a LOT MORE CARE...b/c it's starting to get me down. And too frustrated. And for the life of me, I don't understand how you cannot see that the fact that WE are this frustrated has SO MUCH TO DO WITH YOUR SITUATIONS at home...and how much you bring upon yourself...and continue to.

I told that to kevin several times including my last LONG post to him...hopefully you will give it some thought. Kevin, I guess you won't. Get help. There's nothing I can say or do for you without you taking that step and it is enabling you to remain stuck in place wallowing, for me to keep posting here if you won't see a c or t or doctor b/c you are NOT HEARING US...we can't keep propping you up only to see you collapse the minute we turn our backs...we have lives too. And you need to get one.

(( j ))

Wow,

I know. Be thankful. I have to quit worrying about stuff. I wasn't trying to be hypocritical, I guess it just came across that way.

I'm also just trying to figure out an education plan.

I agree. Alot of people have it far worse than me. Alot of people have had their hearts broken and dreams crushed like me.

I don't have any benefits with this job by the way since it is only a contracting position.

But none the less, you are right. And I do read yalls posts multiple times. I just still let myself get down. And I have got to quit that.

I'm just tired of this. And I know yall are to. And yall are tired of yall's situations to. And I sure hope to be one of the lucky ones that saves his M. I pray everyday it will happen. But I can't do it if I always get down.

I think what bothers me alot is when she got the job with the money that I did not take, she left. And she no longer needs me financially. And now I worry about making enough money to attract her back on top of everything else I have to do to attract her back.

I'm tired of her ignoring me except when she needs something or it has to do with the kids.

But yall are all tired of your situations to and managing through it.

I just want to say to her, Hey, I love you and things will be ok. We can work through this. But I have said that and it only drove her further away. So I don't say it.

I am trying to do stuff. I just haven't gotten a life yet. I'm trying to learn this job. I'm trying to spend any time I can with my kids. I'm trying to get the apartment situation settled. It just all takes time, but I am getting closer to each one. I am trying to figure out an education plan. I am trying to figure out how to buy a house and retire by planning.

I'm doing stuff. I just still let myself get down to much. And it affects me. I am at the house now and I really feel secure here. I always do when I am here.

I hope yall enjoy your trip and I wish your daughter the best of luck. I'm sorry to hear about your house and retirement situation and everyone else's to. I know that is a worry for a lot of people.

I am taking meds. I haven't sought out a C yet and I need to. I will.

Things are looking up. They just take time. I just have to keep my W out of my mind.

Kevin

Kevin,

You're not doing anything!! You're talking about planning, but you never actually PLAN!!

Kevin, stop trying and start DOING! Here you are again, going on and on about your wife this and your wife that - that's what you focus on and IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.

I go to work every day and teach with three year olds with brain tumors, fetal alcohol syndrome, autism, Down's syndrome, and the list goes on. These children will never have a "normal" life, have truly done nothing to deserve their plight, but I see more love for life, and determination from SPECIAL NEEDS THREE YEAR OLDS, than I see from a grown up, fully functioning, healthy, employed grown up man.

As far as your "dating" talk, anyone who would go out with you at this point would have to be a bigger train wreck than you are, and you don't need that. Unstable people don't attract healthy, happy, stable people - they attract other unstable people.

Wake up -- you're never going to get anywhere -- you think because you're moving, you're getting somewhere, but you're not because you're going in pointless circles all the time.

You're exhausting, and I don't know how your wife hung in with you as long as she did. You should be grateful for that.

You just don't get it. All of what 25 said and all you take away is "wow I get people have it worse that I do, but I don't have health insurance." Then more words about your wife and if she'll take you back. You aren't trying to do anything. You're talking a hell of a lot about how sad your life is and how it's just this or just that in your way of really living a good life. It doesn't really have anything to do with your self defeating attitude or the fact that you have not taken any action towards these plans. Not at all. It's because she doesn't see you and she doesn't listen when you say you love her and because you don't make enough money to attract her. Is she really that superficial that she wouldn't want you in her life because you make less money than she does? Could it possibly be that when you chose to not take the job she saw it as you choosing to not take responsibility for your life and your role as husband and father?

You've gotten so much great advice. So many people are posting on your thread and trying to help you through this, but you refuse to listen. You take one small thing that they say and then show them how it's not really true. I don't think anything is going to change for you until you actually step away and take a good look at yourself and accept responsibility for yourself. Stop blaming and just do something.

Kevin,

Just re-read and process what 25 said. And please get over the money issue again. Enjoy your time with your Ds.

I know. Be thankful. I have to quit worrying about stuff. I wasn't trying to be hypocritical, I guess it just came across that way.

Dont you see though that you dont have the tools just to "quit worrying"? Why do you think so many people fail when they try and quit smoking cold turkey? Its because they are addicted and their bodies cannot function w/o a cig. A good majority of people that do quit for good need the patch, nicotine gum or a very structured support system with a professional in order to really curb their addiction and habbit.

You, my friend, dont have the tools to "just quit" your addiction and right now your addiction is being very stuck in a mindset that is borderline crazy! Without professional help of some sort your addiction will continue and you will never, ever be able to break it.

I agree. Alot of people have it far worse than me. Alot of people have had their hearts broken and dreams crushed like me.

I dont know anybody that hasnt had their heart broken. Its a part of life. My heart broke as I held my dad's hand when he took his last breath. My heart broke when I was diagnosed with an incurable disease, my heart broke again when my H left me and it shattered to bits when I found out about his affair. So yeah, we have all experienced massive and horrifying heartbreak. BUT and this is a big fat but.... if your only dream in life was to be married then you need to really evaluate your life. Because that means the only way you can be happy is with another. And you first need to be happy just with you.

I don't have any benefits with this job by the way since it is only a contracting position.

There you again - Mr. Negative. It's "only" a contract position. I know 10 people that would kill to "only" have a contract postion without any benefits. It may be "only" a contract position with no benefits but the big picture is... ITS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT YOU DIDNT HAVE A MONTH AGO.

But none the less, you are right. And I do read yalls posts multiple times. I just still let myself get down. And I have got to quit that.

Once again, is is painfully obvious that you dont have the tools needed to simply "quit" the very damaging mindset you are in. You can read until you are blue in the face but if you dont apply the advice or seek help then you can read all day and not a thing will change or improve.

I'm just tired of this. And I know yall are to. And yall are tired of yall's situations to. And I sure hope to be one of the lucky ones that saves his M. I pray everyday it will happen. But I can't do it if I always get down.

You have to save yourself before you can save your M. You dont yet have the tools or action plan to save yourself so how in the world do you think you can save a M? You get down because that is where you chooose to be. You have other options but you dont want to explore them. Until you STOP worrying about saving your M nothing and I mean NOTHING will happen.

I think what bothers me alot is when she got the job with the money that I did not take, she left. And she no longer needs me financially. And now I worry about making enough money to attract her back on top of everything else I have to do to attract her back.

As a woman I find that insulting. Yes, my H made tons more money than me but I can assure you I have never and will never *need* a man for financial reasons. Again with the obsessive worry about your W and attracting her back. Do you think any amount of money would attract her back at this point? You are wrong. Dead wrong and I dont even know your W. Until you change your entire outlook and life strategy you have no shot with your W or anybody else for that matter.

I'm tired of her ignoring me except when she needs something or it has to do with the kids.

If you are tired of it then let it go and stop being tired of it. I hate to break this to you but most spouses that walk away from a marriage tend to treat the spouse they left behind like crap. They are rude, selfish, demanding and cold. They think the sun and moon and stars revolve around them and each whim or desire they have. Its all part of the anatomy of a walk away spouse. She treats you like garbage because you allow her to. Next time she needs something tell her no, sorry, I am not available.

But yall are all tired of your situations to and managing through it.

Many of us are not just managing because we are special people - we are managing because each damn day we work our tails off to get to a better place. Am I tired of my situation? MY GOD YES. I am exhausted, mentally saturated and sick to death of it. But I power through all that and keep trucking. Tonight my H called me out of the blue and we chatted for 2 hours. It was lovely and light and nice. Then we hung up and I cried for 10 min. So, I let myself feel that then I took a deep breath, ate 2 bagels and made myself regroup. Guess what? One month from now my H and I go to court AGAIN. And NOW, after 13 months of more bullsh*t then I have time to write he is NOW telling me that maybe its best if we stay separated for another year rather than divorce. Can you say rage.. NOW he is saying this? But I wont get broken again. Now I step back and regroup and think. I am in charge here because its MY LIFE.

I just want to say to her, Hey, I love you and things will be ok. We can work through this. But I have said that and it only drove her further away. So I don't say it.

You need to be okay before "things" can be okay. How about saying to your W.. "hey lady, back off so I can get my life in order and once I do, maybe I will give you a call". You shouldnt be saying ANYTHING to her right now in the state you are in unless its "hello" "goodbye" or something related to the children. Anything else will not help!

I am trying to do stuff. I just haven't gotten a life yet. I'm trying to learn this job. I'm trying to spend any time I can with my kids. I'm trying to get the apartment situation settled. It just all takes time, but I am getting closer to each one. I am trying to figure out an education plan. I am trying to figure out how to buy a house and retire by planning.

Ok - I have moved many times and it doesnt take more than a week to get an apartment settled unless you are moving into some sort of penthouse that is 5000 square feet. Learning the job takes place at work. So what else are you doing to get a life? You say you are planning but you wont say HOW you are planning.

I'm doing stuff. I just still let myself get down to much. And it affects me. I am at the house now and I really feel secure here. I always do when I am here.

You let yourself get down because you dont have the tools to do anything else. Security needs to come from within, not from four walls and a roof.

I am taking meds. I haven't sought out a C yet and I need to. I will.

When? What day?

Things are looking up. They just take time. I just have to keep my W out of my mind.

If you *have* to keep your W out of your mind why do you mention her every chance you get? Until you realize that right now she has to be nothing to you, she will stay firmly planted in your brain and you will stay firmly planted in this cycle.

Yea Kev, 25 just told you to stop. Then you went on with your "but this and that", dude stop.

You've got 25, Stuck and City giving you great posts and your throwing it away...woe is me.

No one can help Kevin except Kevin.

Ya,

I have plenty to be thankful for.

I am doing stuff though. Plans are being put into action and some things are still in the planning stage. But things are being worked.

Things that are happening, I have a job, I was approved for my apartment, I am getting time with my kids. I will have them every other week in a few weeks.

Things being put into place, an education plan and career plan. This is still in the planning stages, but I am researching and trying to work it out.

I do think I am always a little anxious starting a new job to. I think that is normal until you start getting things down.

Hey tomorrow is Friday. Its the weekend. WOOHOO!!!

Thanks again,

Kevin

Worrying about buying a house or your retirement in the emotional and mental and professional state you are in, is part of the disorder you have. It's NOT "being in the now" for sure. Way down the road when the dust settles, you can address that. (But for now, you are still not able to go 24 hours without talking about her.)

I hope you get me when I say this next thing--When you complained about her not seeing or contacting you unless it's "about the kids or needing an errand done"....well Kevin, can you give us ONE OTHER reason why else she'd call you these days?

Think hard about that....why else would YOUR WIFE CALL YOU NOW??? B/C she needs a shoulder to cry on when she has a bad day? For career advice? For spiritual guidance? For companionship?

Those were things she needed from you IN THE PAST and did NOT GET...she now has no expectation that you'd fill ANY of those needs. The BEST she can hope from you, now, is that you'll help with the kids or do an errand for her. This is NOT surprising to me. It's a drag, but it's not a surprise. Surely you can see that you tellling her it's all going to be ok is more like you projecting what you wish she'd say to you...your role was not that of the comforter, I'm sorry to say. Her letter and your own words reveal that. It was honest of you to assess your past bravely, but you have to accept the consequences of those actions and stop insisting that you not pay any simply b/c you are sorry now.

You've wallowed so much for so long BEFORE THE A... You are acting as if you are down and sad BECAUSE of the A but the reality I THINK, is that you were this way long before it all happened and until you see THAT...there won't be much change in you, let alone anyone else.

We can all talk til we're blue in the face. I want to help you but like I said, to hear a guy with so FEW problems, comparatively, complain more and louder than most others, does give me pause. 10 weeks Kevin, she's wanted out, officially, for 10 weeks now.

When I felt those deep wounds and had seriously lost weight and couldn't sleep well or eat right and repeated myself to friends and did ALL The things you are doing, I read the DB books and I came here. I was desparate but my sister had told me not to become a SVON...so when I came here, I LISTENED....I LET THINGS GET THROUGH TO ME AND I MADE CHANGES IN MY LIFE AND I THANK GOD...

I cannot say the div is busted yet, b/c I'm still in reconciling and piecing, and have been for 18 MONTHS...so I've been in "piecing" for longer than you have been apart. I hope sometime SOON you'll get sooo sick and tired of being sick and tired that you'll STOP...but you need help Kevin. You are just not acting like a 34 year old man and I don't want to crush your ego. I think you have a good heart. But when you say you are "tired of feeling like this" and it's only after 10 weeks, I feel as if I'm talking to my 11 year old with her chores...

This isn't yard work, Kevin. And being hurt, as CityGirl so articulated, IS LIFE...I've had 3 deaths the past year (NOT counting 2 dear aunts) AND my mil is terminally ill, so as we go to Europe to see our d20 perform, which will be wonderful for all of us, I know mil's pending demise will be in the back of my h's head AND so will his new job starting next month AND my new job IF I get the one I applied for...if not, I'll look elsewhere. We both lost family this past year AND both of us left our jobs to be with those departing, or departed, and it cost us more money than I care to admit. If I added that up on top of how much money my h's MLC has cost us, somehow I think you'd tell me I was lucky that we had that much to Lose...seriously. So that makes you someone not that good of a friend right now. Were you always this way? I cannot believe that. How did you date anyone or have any buddies? Where is the guy who was your best man at your wedding? Do you have ANY siblings? You also glossed over God's Miracle to you and that new niece of yours...why'd you ignore that comment? Why'd you fail to note it even in a reply? To me that is SO odd...and [b]typifies what we're describing.

The Swirling Vortex Of Negativity (aka "SVON") started out as a funny word my siblings and I made up for our depressing sister, but it stuck with us and now we use it in our real lives. It applies.

You skimmed over ALL of that AND ALL the other posters who are saying the same thing. Please learn something from someone here. You said I really helped you and I appreciate that comment. But Kev, I don't see it. I feel like I'm watching someone telling me a few things they think I want to hear, but doing nothing differently....Please get help. We cannot give you our oxygen masks and all our air, when we are watching you NOT pick up your own mask....do you understand this analogy? Do you understand the analogy of my son't wrestling match, in which the "champ" lost b/c he kept worrying about past mistakes AND thinking so far ahead towards pinning my son in the next period that he '"FORGOT TO BE IN THE PRESENT MOMENT" and thereby lost the match? Do you get the points I am making?

The worrying you do about retirement is ONE example of someone clearly being in the future and it's neurotic. You are just now getting your head UP to the top of the water to get SOME air and already you are thinking about how to cross the ocean (and then wondering why you are overwhelmed & depressed)....if you were really overweight and needed to lose weight and you wanted to get into shape and started working out and BEGAN TO LOSE WEIGHT, would you THEN start obsessing about whether you'd EVER run the NYC marathon AND would you GET REALLY DEPRESSED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF NOT RUNNING IT OR WONDERING WHEN YOU WERE GOING TO BE IN GOOD ENOUGH SHAPE TO RUN THE NYC MARATHON OR BETTER YET, THE OLYMPICS...WHAT ABOUT THE OLYMPICS?? WELL WHAT ABOUT THAT??? Oh no, another "failed dream"...(SIGH)

To me, your worrying about so many different things all at once, is just mentally unsound and neurotic.

Do you think I am spending my precious time worrying about how to get back the money we lost the past few years? No, I sat down to figure out how to go forward. We made a plan. (I did most of it b/c h is with his dying mother and I'm a bit of a financial advisor, but it is a joint effort obviously)....so I made a plan AND THEN I IMPLEMENTED IT!!...and that's that. Now every month when money comes in, some goes to the PLAN/PROGRAM...and if something comes up that cuts into the plan, as LIFE often DOES (and death) then so be it. Back on "the program" the next day...problem? No, b/c a "problem" being handled, is no longer a problem.

Kevin, we care. But you have to put your own oxygen mask on and get some help so we can support you in your program...but YOU have to get the Program for you.
Specifically, re-read CG's posts, among so many other good ones, and DO THEM.

And don't ever complain to US about some of these things again if you expect to be heard. The money issue is YOUR problem. In your head. Maybe even ALL in your head. If you think your w left you ALL b/c of the money and NOT the symbolism of your life choices, you are essentially calling her a prostitute. I refuse to believe you'd marry a prostitute.

So that's part of the neurosis coming into play. There are books out there for you to read when you are well enough to let them into your head, but right now they're like my words to you...on the surface some of it helps you temporarily, so you want more, and it's helpful but some of it hurts AND THEN... most of it falls off you as you go back into the darkness within, instead of feeding your soul some nourishment.

Finally, May I suggest one thing about prayers?

When you pray, don't give God your "to do" list. It is NOT about God "making" your wife feel love for you. Prayer is about you starting with thanks for all the blessings you have, and asking forgiveness for your sins, and THEN discussing your "petitions" but in those requests, we are not to ask for our wish list. It's about asking God for His guidance so that you will KNOW His will, and strength to follow it. If I'm not mistaken, I've said this at least twice before. It's really important so that you can accept whatever life brings you, b/c you have HIS strength and love inside.

As for "just loving/needing her so much..." well, Your w may get hit by a car next week and die. Seriously, tell us, would you off yourself? You'll still be a dad, but hey, "it'd be HARD"... there are only two answers to that question. If you'd actually kill yourself b/c your w died, it means you are way too needy AND selfish as a dad, among other things...but let's say you'd stick around, if for no other reason than being there for your kids...so..why can't you be with them Now? I mean really with them and NOT preoccupied all the time around them and obsessing about HER all the time...that's what I mean. For them to see a healthy happy YOU...takes effort on your end, but hey, that is your job. To model that for them...(oh geez, I've aleready said this so many times to you.)

When you are well enough there's a workshop I hope you'll attend for personal growth. I went long ago for issues related to my father's drinkng but it helped so much as a wife that my h went later on and we really got a lot out of it and I hope we go back this summer for our anniversary. It's been 20 years...BUT it was a tough one b/c we had to bravely look within...however,

at that workshop I met a woman who's older brother died in a car accident on HER 16th birthday going to HER party...and then her 5 y/o son was diagnosed with aggressive diabetes, and I kid you not, then her 1 y/o daughter DIED of a lung infection. Her baby girl DIED in her arms....That woman was at the workshop with me and had so much PEACE within her that to this day, I think she's the most inwardly content person I have ever met. I thought her view of life would be wrecked like yours is. HER PAIN FRIGHTENED ME...And in a moment of grace or rudeness, I shared that with her and she was totally open to me.

I said having that pain in my life would wreck how I view all things, like seeing a painting that once was beautiful but now had a glass of wine splashed on it. She said something like, "No, life is a tapestry and if you stare up close you can only see the flaws in workmanship and small mistakes, but if you step back, you can see all the patterns and textures and how the light hits it, and changes it by the hour, and all the beauty of the tapestry of life..."

Pain is part of childbirth, pain is part of life. It hurts. But pain does not ruin life. Step way back and open your eyes.

To do that, Kevin, you need some help. So Get it. Make that on top of the list. Once you have made an appointment, then go to the next item on the list. But if you don't handle YOU asap, the list will get very long and remain unfinished forever.

This will be my last long post for awhile not to punish you, but I'm too busy to do this now and it's late and besides, I don't feel you are making any lasting breakthroughs. Do you read anyone else's threads? try mountaindreams (mtn_dreams) under Newbie's post and see how someone with the same shock as you, is handling HER pain and starting to move on...just read it. I don't know that women get thru this faster but if we do, maybe it's b/c we get help faster (??) Get some help Kevin. Everyone here is rooting for you but it is the one thing that we ALL agree on..you need some more help and resources we cannot provide. When you come up with a plan with your new doc or C, then we can support you IN THAT...make sense?

(( j ))

Kev there is no way your wife is taking you back at least not anytime in the near future and a good probability NEVER, realize that. Why the hell would she you haven't changed? There are sooo many people here that have told you what you should do and you don't.

I can't imagine how much time and energy 25 puts in her posts. Look how long she was S hell I'm coming on two years, we've been there and done it. Like 25 you are draining my energy. IF there could be just one post from you that had a positive tone it would be easier, "and not yeah I've got a job and get to see my kids."

Kevin I just hope you get some help for YOU not some M that is non-existent.

25,

I just wanted to say thank you for all your wonderful posts. You are truly an inspiration to us all. I have gained so much knowledge reading your words. You should definitely write a book. You have a great way of putting your thoughts into words that truly inspire. I have had the same "stuck" mindset that Kev has an have found it difficult to really move on. Despite the fact that we're officially divorced. It's still hard to let go of all the good times, but I have come along way. I still have my moments where I keep on asking God why, but eventually come back around on my own with the whole acceptance theme and my mantra of "everything happens for a reason". Which reminds me of another version of the tapestry quote you mentioned. I read that "life is like a tapestry, from below all we see is a bunch of squiggly lines and threads from above God see's a beautiful picture of our lives" That metaphor has truly inspired me like your words to keep on "Truckin"

I also like how you explained how to pray. You pretty much spelled out word for word how I pray. I start w thanking God for all the blessing and gifts in my life then consistently ask for strength and guidance. I also asked for forgiveness in my heart towards both my ex and myself. I really would have wished at the time that my WAW would have wanted the same things I did but over time I have really learned to "thank God for unanswered prayers.."

Anyway, didnt mean to interrupt the "kid pile" on Kev. which is all unfortunately necessary based on the post and present mindset. I just wanted to take some time to acknowledge 25 and others for all their very heartfelt and helpful posts.

God Speed everyone! Kev. keep the faith brotha. The Lord does work in very mysterious ways. Take this opportunity to figure out why this is all happening. Use it to motivate yourself to be the best father/friend u can be.

I called catholic charities and they don't offer professional counseling here anymore.
They gave me some names to call. So I did. Waiting to hear back now.

25 please don't leave. I am doing it.

Kevin

Get the best pro help you can find for counseling and meds even if you can't afford it right now. Unfixed problems or halfway fixed problems will wreck your life and make you miserable (been there). Counseling will take real work on your part to see results. Meds often require trial and error to get right. Find a dr with experience in this area. Finally, learn all you can. At the end of the day YOU are responsible for your well being.

Well,

I honestly have nothing to say.

Kevin

Kev - "I honestly have nothing to say."

No doubt you're feeling pretty whacked out by the challenges your new job has brought and the amount of fantastic input you're getting here...

It takes time and serious introspection to make headway in this "journey"...don't lose heart...there are posters on this board who,like you, post about every twist and turn in their sitch and every thought that runs through their minds - others, like me, cos thats in my /their nature - sanitise things a little...in all likelihood, neither is right.

Your preparedness to bare all has yielded far more input onto your thread than mine- I wanted input but initially I wasn't prepared to bare all - so in that respect you're in a better position than I was by miles at this stage in the game.

Kev - I'm speculating now...but guessing that you feel that your already fragile ego has taken a real good bashing of late - but please understand that every poster to you has the utmost respect for you for keeping coming back here and laying out your thought processes / fears / hurts / hopes - that's not an easy thing to do - and every poster here will appreciate and understand your commitment to re-forging a relationship with your W and to rebuilding your family...

And I also want you to know that every poster here will appreciate that the stuff that's fed back to you and advised here is "easier said than done".

But this is what it is...it is easier said than done...this stuff "is" hard...introspection "is" hard...none of this is easy and there are no magic bullets...but there are principles / tenets if you like that folks here have found that work for them in their situations...folks that have, in their time also found themselves floundering and desperate...

The presumption is, that by being here, you want to learn from those people...Kev you are getting some fantastic input...the only thing that is holding you back now is the "Old Kev".

Letting the Old Kev go doesn't mean that you lose your identity - that will always be there - that's your "Kev" -the "Old Kev" is how you used to relate to the world, the "New Kev" is how you "want" to relate to the world.

Kev - what does the "New Kev" look like? Once you have that sorted out, then you're back on the road!

And I think (?) -this is mirroring much of what 25, CG and others have said already...

I post this in hope and with great expectations!

Best GFI

I want to share something with you that I picked up very recently...your core value is invincible...nothing your wife or anyone else says or does can lower your core value...and this is an affirmation of it:

I am worthy of respect, value, and compassion, whether or not I get them from others. If I don't get them from others, it is necessary to feel more worthy, not less. It is necessary to confirm my own deep value as a unique person. I respect and value myself. I have compassion for my hurt. I have compassion for the hurt of loved ones. I trust myself to act in my best interests and in the best interests of my children, which will ultimately be in the best interests of my wife.

To help you internalize this vital truth, write it down and then read it aloud...with conviction.

Have a great week all. Kevin, I'll call you about lunch then...

Wow I have to say that there have been enough 2x4's on these posts that you could probably build your own house by now Kevin.

Have a good weekend and enjoy the time with your Ds.

I hope your effort to find and book an appt. with a counselor happened!

It is tough to be "2x4'd", not doubt about it. But I think the people that 2x4 the hardest are also the ones that at one point or another were in the very same place.

I truly was on the verge of going off the deep end and so many of my thoughts were just like Kevin's. Evenutally it does begin to take a toll on not only your mind but your health. And I dont mean you just feel down in the dumps or sad, no, its something more than that.

There were many a days I would drive somewhere and not even remember how I got there. As I mentioned before, panic attacks were frequent with me. I lost 40 pounds and I only weighed 135 to begin with. Some people just handle things in a different way that isnt productive to their well being. The constant and obsessive worry is a terrible way to live (I know because I used to do that to the point of become physically ill). And when things get to that point its simply time to get some assistance beyond support groups and books. We all need help from time to time and usually the person that needs the help is the last one to really see it.

It's not about being mean or unkind or hey, lets all pick on Kevin and kick him when he is down. I would never particpate in such things because that is cruel. But I think the people that truly are the hardest on him (me included) are the ones that at one time were at the lowest of the low and on the verge of entering into a very dangerous mental place. Wishing and hoping or one thing but when it starts to become a way of life and all else is sort of ignored, well, you start falling down a slippery slope.

If you would prefer, Kevin, I will refrain from further comment. No harm, no foul. And yes, it is easy to give this advice but I can also assure you that I lived it and its not just something I read in a book.

I struggle each day but now I have the tools to be sure I never get stuck in such a reckless state. It has taken me close to 14 months and I dont ever claim it was simple. It still is the hardest thing I have ever done. But it is possible if you take the right steps.

Take care.

Feel free to post. I'm just taking some time to evaluate myself.

Kevin

I think the people who give him the hardest 2x4s are the ones who care the most. In the end though Kevin, you hold your fate in your hands.

Yup.

Kevin

Kevin,

I think it's great you are stopping to think and analyze your thought process before carrying on with it. If you can see those destructive forces within, and stop them, you are on the right road. No more self pity from a guy with as much going for him as you have. Just b/c YOU can't see it, does not mean it's false.

But as so many say, we have all been where you are now, for some amount of time. I got my heart broken at age 16, and don't laugh okay? I mean it. I was bonkers that summer as I learned that he had slept with a girl whereas I had refused to but we dated all year and in my eyes, my virtue was unrewarded. I felt so physically sick. In hindsight, I allowed that idiot cheating "first love", to ruin a lot of my junior year of high school. What a fool I was! I knew many many years later that I would not endure something like that for long, again.

Still, h's MLC renewed those old desparate feelings and the crazy desire to understand the crazy stuff....stuff I will NOT understand and that has been a really weird thing to accept. But I accept that I won't "get" how my h moved and chose what he did or thought how he thought. Just dealing with the now, and the going forward-- and you know, that IS enough.

But I'm posting to check on the LICE issues...for ME, when h was gone to the tundra, we had lice with d11 (then she was 8) and then d20 (then 16) and then -- ME!! OMG!!

I'm really NOT OKAY with insects at all. It is "an issue" for me. So having lice for me, was like fear factor stuff. I could NOT stand it and it was a big damn deal. Combing through their long hair AND MINE and having H "miss all the fun"...he'd tell me what to do as if I wasn't doing it right, or it wasn't a big deal, and when h came for a visit and said he'd "help out" with the combing, which takes an hour per kid, plus my own, he did it for MAYBE 15 min and was done....(yeah, thanks...you sure showed me!)

I have a lot of LICE ADVICE for you if you want and we can discuss it all later. But killing those things took about 3 "EVENTS/SESSIONS" plus the constant combing and the school won't let them attend if they find out. We had them in the summer and that was the ONE saving grace but it happened in Europe, and God only knows what the pharmacist gave me for it. It was all written in Italian and my little "Speaking Italian" class did NOT include discussions of lice for some reason....bought stuff that literally looked like some sort of explosive and MAY have been a shampoo....or pesticide?? Well...we lived...

Bet W is having a great time with THIS!! . Who is she blaming? Some kid at school I hope. She'll likely have them too before long...you should be really careful and have the girls wear shower caps to bed and be grateful if you don't get them. You can freeze the pillows for 24 hours in the freezer and the ones that hatched already will die. SOME of the nits will too. (sorry if this is grossing people out but it is nothing compared to having them...OMG....OMG it pushed a big button in me) Be glad you don't have your own place yet!!

For some reason our son did NOT get them, even though he was with us the whole trip and shared a bed twice. His hair was shorter, true. But Turned out later he had "borrowed" the wrong shampoo from his roomate, and it was her dog's anti=flea shampoo he'd been using....so that's probably why HE didn't get them...um, yeah...thought his hair smelled a bit too 'manly' but hey, whatever works.

GOOD LUCK!!

And how is your beautiful new niece??

(( j ))

A friend of mine told me he lost his job today after being only 1 week into it. He was kind of freaked out about it. He is divorced to. Same story as everyone else here. I worked with him and he never talked to anyone. Then one day, he found out what was going on with me and started talking to me trying to help me out. I was the only person he talked to.

I sent him some contacts that I have from some agencies and told him to talk to them right away. Hopefully he can get something quickly. He has 2 daughters also.

It made me think again how lucky I am to have a job in this market even if its not the dream job. I'm still lucky to have it.

Alot of people are getting hurt financially and emotionally and are struggling and the walk aways seem to be florishing right now. I hate to see everyone here going through these difficult times and I am realizing that while my situation may be hard on me, yall all have just as hard if not harder situations.

I was to caught up in myself to look beyond and see so many other people have it worse than I do. And yet yall are there for me even though yall are going through your own hell. I realize how selfish I have been in focusing on my own self pity.

Yall are right. I'm 34. I have an opportunity to reinvent myself. I can do this job and study while the market is down. I have 2 great kids. I have my health. I will find someone else down the road eventually that I can be a good partner to if this never gets any better. I have people in my corner rooting for me that care about me. And yes, I can see what a huge drag and drain it is to have someone like me around if all I am is negative. I can rebuild myself. I have time. Its not the end of the world. Better to be 34 and starting over than 70 and in a shelter.

I have time to learn and study. I don't have to get it all done in one night. I have time to look for new opportunities that arise in the future. I don't have to have that dream job right now. At least I am able to pay my bills for now while I try and rebuild. When I am not negative, I have a great personality and a big heart. I'm a nice person. I care about people. I come from a good family with good values.

An older lady was walking down the street tonite in the neighborhood when I was driving down the road and she somehow fell. I stopped to ask her if she was ok and if she needed any help tonite. She turned out to be fine and thanked me for offering to help her.

I'm a good person. I was a jerk in my marriage before all of this. But I'm not anymore. I have value to offer. Money doesn't define a person. Character does.

My neice is doing great. They finally named her. Thanks for asking about her. She is a wonderful blessing and addition to the family. I haven't seen her yet as they live in Wisconsin. But I am sure I will get pictures soon.

My BIL is helping me take steps in my career path and advising me.

He said don't worry about the certification right now. In this market it won't matter right now. It will help later, but not right now. He said keep doing self studying and look for opportunities in the company I am in and in 6 months if nothing is promising, look else where. Maybe in 6 months if the economy is turning around, then look at certification. Just learn the job I am doing now the best I can and talk to people to get the big picture of who all is involved at every level for what I am doing and figure out how to get where they got by asking questions and offering to take on new projects while still doing the best job I can.

There is alot of bright spots ahead in my life. Its no where near the end of the road for me.

Good stuff to keep in my mind.

I have to do the lice treatment again on my kids tomorrow morning. I have the chemicals and shower caps. W is in Florida so I have to do the second round and that is fine. Gotta make sure they can go back to school Monday.

I have a sheltie that is 9 years old and has trouble getting up, but she is always happy to see me.

I took my kids to CC's pizza tonite because that is where they wanted to go and they loved it. And I love being with them.

They wanted to go for a walk tonite and they love that I play games with them. And I am going to come up with crafts and projects for them to do in my place. And I will take them swimming. They love that to.

Life isn't so bad if you look at the things you have going for you and realize opportunities will present themselves with time if you are patient.

I wasn't going to post much for a while. But I guess I decided to after giving things some thought today and tonite.

I have a roof over my head, food to eat, a care, a job, and a chance to improve my future if I am patient and diligent.

Things will be ok if I take each day one day at a time.

There is no reason to cry anymore. What good comes from it. It doesn't change anything. Action changes things, not self pity.

Its time for action. If my W D's me, then she D's me. If she never comes back, then she never comes back. What a waste of my life if I am always sitting around waiting for her to come back. What a waste for my kids if I never move beyond this and live life. They need and want a strong dad that can pull himself together and keep moving forward in the face of difficult times. They need the example. They need the strength and stability.

Life must go on. Its time to pick myself up and move forward and work as hard as I can with what I do have to work with and think positive about what life does have to offer. Part of that may mean me having to remove W from my life so I don't think about her anymore. Its not something I want to do, but it may be what I have to do so that I can keep going and do what is best for me.

I have to stop thinking about what is best for us and start thinking about what is best for me and my girls.

Life will go on. None of us are in the ideal situation. None of us wanted our hearts ripped in 2 and our life turned upside down. But it happened. So you can pick up the peices and rebuild, or you can waste away your life and never be happy again. I'm done with that. What a waste. Why be depressed until the day you die. What kind of life is that?

Kevin

Print out your post and reread it next time you start feeling down, and remember you wrote the words and felt these feelings. I know the roller coaster, and what it's like to feel absolutely so down you can't even get up the strength to get out of bed in the morning, and I also know that there are times when it doesn't hurt as much. Reading positive affirmations, like your post above, really does help put things back in perspective when the blues hit, so I offer that as a suggestion from one LBS to another. Hang in there my friend, and keep the faith.

And yes, I had my heart broken as a teenager to. A girl I was madly in love with slept with another guy while we were together. And I even caught her cheating on me on my birthday of all days. Probably because of being cheated on before and the close relationships my W had with guys I was always untrusting to some extent. And then W finally did it and broke my heart again.

So I know I am not ready for another relationship right now. I need to move beyond that not everyone is like that in life.

So fixing myself is #1 priority. And there are steps to do that. And I made a phone call today to 2 different counselors to start getting quotes. One is actually a C I had been going to before when I had insurance. I haven't heard back from him yet on his prices without insurance.

I didn't take his advice before. But now its time to start.

One of these plans of action might end up being just removing myself from W and her life and family as far away as I can from myself. And by that I mean just having nothing to do with any of them anymore at all. No contact. Just see W when I have to and keep it minimal. Let her move on. I don't want to hear about what is going on in her life anymore and what she has been up to.

I can't move on if I am staying involved with her life. The more involved I am the more I can't let go. Thats enough of that. I need to forget she exists which won't be completely easy since we share kids together. I can however set it up so that we hardly see each other anymore. That would actually be ideal for her and it would help me forget about her. I can make it where I pick the kids up from school on Friday of my week and then she does the same on Friday of her week. Thats kind of drastic, but it may be what I have to do to forget about her. Why do I want to keep torturing myself knowing about the guys in her life. I don't. Who needs that?

Not I.

Kevin

Thanks Song,

Will do.

Kevin

Kevin

I am so pleased to read these last few posts from you and I am so very, very proud of you.

If you dont have insurance to cover counseling you might call around and see if you can find a counselor who operates under sliding fee scale.

I did a quick google search using the temrs "counseling in dallas without insurance" and came across this option from the Univ. of North Texas at Dalls - they offer free counseling for anybody in the community. Here is the link:

http://www.unt.edu/unt-dallas/news/2007/counseling.htm

Here is another article I found about a new non profit center that offers counseling for 45.00 per session.

http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/publish/article_10102.php

Thanks CityGirl,

I will check into this.

Kevin

I called the number for UNT counseling and left a voice mail.

I woke up really missing my W this morning. I guess its part of the roller coaster. I need to reread my posts now.

I told D11 this morning I miss her mommy. She didn't say anything and I probably shouldn't have said anything.

D7 has a birthday party to go to at 3 today. W sent me a text reminding me.

Kevin

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

When you are well enough there's a workshop I hope you'll attend for personal growth. I went long ago for issues related to my father's drinkng but it helped so much as a wife that my h went later on and we really got a lot out of it and I hope we go back this summer for our anniversary. It's been 20 years...BUT it was a tough one b/c we had to bravely look within...however,

at that workshop I met a woman who's older brother died in a car accident on HER 16th birthday going to HER party...and then her 5 y/o son was diagnosed with aggressive diabetes, and I kid you not, then her 1 y/o daughter DIED of a lung infection. Her baby girl DIED in her arms....That woman was at the workshop with me and had so much PEACE within her that to this day, I think she's the most inwardly content person I have ever met. I thought her view of life would be wrecked like yours is. HER PAIN FRIGHTENED ME...And in a moment of grace or rudeness, I shared that with her and she was totally open to me.

Kevin, I don't want to hijack your thread, but 25, could you provide more information on this workshop that you attended that was so helpful? It sounds like it may be helpful for me, and other LBS's here. Thanks!

Sorry to hijack AND

Hopefully it's okay with the moderators...so...here goes...

The workshop is called Essential Experience. It is NOT a cult (you don't have to get naked or carve letters in your forehead). I don't get money for "recruiting". Though it was very spiritual for me, no specific creed is shoved down your throat. It's now based in Philadelphia and the east coast, but there are "graduate" workshops elsewhere. It is for personal, individual growth and being a good community member, but as a result, most marriages improve. A lot. I originally went for issues related to my father's drinking and how my childhood affected my life as an adult and to get clarity in my life. It changed my life. I had no idea how many things would improve as a result and I am convinced that I knew nothing of forgiveness until I went there. I am convinced I would not have opened my heart or mind to that in my M, but for the fact that h and I had attended it years ago. (He also wants to go back for our anniversary which is a brilliant idea and feels really good to know.) Because of that workshop, when my father was on his deathbed, he asked me to forgive him. (This was about 5 years after I had attended). I told him "you are forgiven" and I meant it. Probably the holiest moment of my life. I would not have been able to mean it, and do it, were it not for that prior work.

Forgiveness is a process and I had done the work as far as I knew. But in that moment, I knew it was truly done and that something spiritual for my father and me, had happened. That's where I met that friend who'd had so much bad stuff in her life yet was so inwardly content. BTW, her PARENTS later attended it and I was there to see it, and I have to say, I was really impressed to see growth in people that age and how close the family was. Dang...

It is about personal work and taking charge of your own life, & it is very consistent with MWD's view that when we change ourselves, our world's change too.
I saw a woman who's h had cheated on her and that was pretty much her ISSUE...the first night she went on and on about how he ruined her life, and what a "S---" he was, and how everyone she'd meet would know within 15 minutes, that her h had cheated on her. (Don't we ALL recognize THAT behavior?)) She did not seem to like her life or herself much at that moment. At the end of the workshop, she said "I'm ready to bury my hatchet with LIFE," and she did. All I know is that when I saw her next, maybe 5 or 6 years later, she had opened an art gallery, remarried a very loving man, and started hosting support groups that sprouted out of the workshop ( which helps you STAY on your program or action plan) and all this was because of a change in viewpoint and resolution of baggage. Learning to put it DOWN. Other people saw their spouses so differently, they woke up! Stayed married! If your M is "the" issue, ask the conductor or group leader about going separately, versus together. I don't know how often they have them but it's not every month for sure.

ANYHOW If you think of life's trajectorys, then mark some changes that are small and incremental AND then "chart" them like in geometry. Just change a few degrees in an angle, and draw out the line from where you were and headed, to where you THEN will be, simply b/c you make some incremental, but consistent changes, & you'll be in a very different place. It's about how to let go and get an action plan.

Some folks want the privacy of one on one and ONLY want that and I get that. But there is a lot to be said for community support and learning to GIVE and reach out and get perspective. So there's that. No one forces you to do or say anything. FOR ME, Sometimes in individual therapy, I'd get an insight or have a breakthrough BUT then I'd have to go back to work or home and "Function" as if I had not just been crying. And it was sort of disjointed, although I LOVED my t. It's just better for some, to work things out all in a row and plow through it in a safe place. Lots of issues get looked at (and you can't BS the speaker), I got CLARITY. Living a life of Intent...I cannot recommend it highly enough. It is not cheap, but considering the hours you'll get of "therapy" it's actually pretty cheap. Plus, if it does half of what it did for me, you cannot spend your money more wisely. It's 4 days. For me, it was the most efficient way of dealing with issues & we formed a support group with other "graduates" in our geographic area, with which we could carry on our new lives. Since it's quite consistent with DBing I hope this is okay to post. Not sure why it would not be, But there, "non-sales" pitch over.

(( j ))

I called the number for UNT counseling and left a voice mail.

Very good!

I woke up really missing my W this morning. I guess its part of the roller coaster. I need to reread my posts now.

It is part of the roller coaster but remember, you do have the power to control the roller coaster on your end. When you start having those feelings of missing your W you at once need to do something different. Occupy your mind and body with something else right away. Redisover all the momentum and strength you had last night and keep on truckin'.

I told D11 this morning I miss her mommy. She didn't say anything and I probably shouldn't have said anything.

Yes, bad move. Dont do it again. IMO all that does it put burden on your daughter. She is dealing with the separation in her own way and to have to know and hear that you are struggling adds extra burden to her. You need to present yourself to your daughters as a strong, confident man and not get them tangled up in your emotions. Plus, if your daughter repeats that back to your W it will look very manipulative and it will only add to your W's guilt and she will retreat further away.

When you want to express an emotion and you arent sure its appropriate wait 24 hours before you say anything. That way you can realy evaluate if its best to just keep quiet (it usually is).

D7 has a birthday party to go to at 3 today. W sent me a text reminding me.

Did you respond to the text?

You screwed up, it happens. Just move on. It will make her worry unnecessarily, but at least she knows that you still love her mom, and miss her. So it could have been much worse. And I think that she probably knows how much you miss her mom, kids arent as oblivious as we would hope!

I did not respond to the text message. I wanted to. But I did not.

Kevin

kev,

don't ever tell your kids about YOUR NEEDS again. What on earth can THEY DO about it? NOTHING....except feel crappy and tell her... Re-read the selfLESS post you wrote earlier. Your kids are not here to comfort YOU, you are here to comfort THEM... What's wrong with answering the text with a "got it, thanks"?? End it then. She's giving you a heads up and MAY want to know you got the message BUT if your d's have cells, let THEM tell her you got the message. Or have them use yours and say "dad got the message"...

Telling them you miss their mommy is a really lousy thing to do TO THEM...Jesus, Kevin...

You put your needs ahead of them again. . This is getting SO old...just when you START to come out of your ego and neediness, you climb right back into it.

I still wondered about the whole thing with your mom's death day. I understand how sad that was but I called MY SIBLINGS AND MOM....you did NOT call your brother or family when your mom's death anniversary came up, instead of calling them to SHARE their grief with yours, you called w to fill your needs.. COME ON...and once again, now, (can I hear an "AMEN"??) 24 HOURS WITHOUT MENTIONING HER....I think this will be the last time I ask you to do this b/c it is too weird and crazy for you not to be able to do it...I'm flummoxed. At SIXTEEN years old, I COULD DO THAT...so, STARTING NOW....3- 2 - 1 -0 now. Begin!

No more of the same stuff...please...

(( j ))

AMEN!!!

Kevin

good one.

( j )

Sorry, it will have to start after this.

I had to call my W to get further clarification on what exactly she wanted done with the lice stuff and its good I did, because I was thinking I needed to do more than I did.

Well, she proceeds to ask me what D7 looked like at the birthday party. W's best friend of 25 years was throwing the party for her 7 year old.

I said D7 had on a yellow shirt, blue pants white shoes and her hair was brushed. W said her friend told her that D7 looked like crap and was not presentable. I let D7 pick out her clothes and I thought she was fine. It was a warm sunny day outside.

That really pissed me off. I can't even get a break from her friend. Did she really have to give my W more ammo against me? I feel like calling her friend and asking why it was necessary to further assist in ammo to tear our family apart?

I'm really frusturated about that. I'm trying to do everything W asks of me and to get slammed like that just pisses me off. Its another setback that I did not need.

Uggg...

Sorry.

Kevin

I don't believe the friend said that. Maybe she laughingly said "guess Kev picked the clothes and doesn't know what matches" and was doing some mocking, OR Said "guess he let d7 dress herself"...or she DID say it and she is an evil woman.

No FRIEND would tell a friend that HER DAUGHTER "LOOKED LIKE CRAP"...maybe YOU should tell your wife, "Gee w, can't believe you let your friend talk like that about OUR d7.. OR COMFORT YOUR W and say what an ugly thing for HER "friend" to say...hope it didnt' HURT YOUR FEELINGS TOO MUCH!!" And leave it at that. (As if the FRIEND did the wrong thing, NOT YOU...which is true, IF the friend made comments like that but if it's blown up by w, then let her see that the truth of the matter is, you stick up for your kids...and she had no business talking to you like that OR referring to your d7 like that. Next time she can send party clothes she picks out if she's so concerned.

and by the way, considering the kids have lice, which I assume NO ONE knows...it's amazing her hair looked good at all. Not sure how I'd feel about kids at a party with lice. What's up with that?

(( j ))

Kevin,

This is just typical divorce stuff. It's really bad when they do it in the courtroom. But it is BS. Don't let it get under your skin. I'm sure your daughter looked fine. It is sad when people stoop to such lows. Your daughter is old enough to choose her own clothing, and as long as it is clean, it is fine. Your wife thinks she is infinitely better than you at everything. That is too bad, she will still have to share them with you.

And on the lice thing. I've been through it. You have to not only use the shampoo, but also spray the sofas and carseats and all bedding they are in contact with. Unless you do the house and car too, it comes back.

They had treatments done earlier in the week. W only wanted listerine put in their hair tonite as a precaution. There was really no concern with the lice.

At the end of the call W said she would talk to me in the morning and to tell the girls good night for her. Later D11 tried to call her and she didn't answer her phone.

I'm calmed down now. I was just frusturated because I felt like it was another setback that I didn't deserve. I'm trying to make sure everything in the house is done that W asked to have done before she gets back on Monday and at the same time take the kids to their activities she wanted them to go to. I'm supposed to take the kids to a painting thing at the church tomorrow from 3pm til 7pm. I will also be taking them to church in the morning. But I'm the one that makes sure the kids get to church on Sunday mornings.

Alright, another day almost down.

Kevin

I assume by now YOU can see the advantages of having your own place?

Thank GOD.

(( j ))

What exactly does your W request that you do around the house? Other than picking up any mess you make while you are there I wouldnt do a thing. You dont live there, she wont let you live there and you are not a maid or babysitter. You are there to be with your children and since she wont let you live there, all household duties and chores now fall squarely on her shoulders.

Kevin - stop thinking what you do or dont deserve. Who cares what your W's friend said? You W will do anything she can to get under your skin. Dont let her. Like 25 said - turn it back to her and point out that (A) nobody should be talking about your daughter that way or (B) how sorry you are that your W has a friend like that!

I'm not going to call her back and say anything. And if I say anything about her friend, she is likely to get defensive and then what good would that do me.

I help out around the house because I feel obligated to and I want to make W happy. I try to do whatever I can that might help our situation and not hurt it. She doesn't want me here at all but allows it now and then so I do what I can so she doesn't resent me being here and I also am trying to show her I am responsible. I do clean up my messes. This weekend she had to wash everything because of the lice so I have been doing that and putting stuff away. I also do the dishes for her. I notice they never get done except when I am here. So I do them.

She generally has little things here and there she wants done. I do it without complaining as I am happy to be in the house any chance I get.

And since my kids are involved, I need to do whatever I can for their sake.

Kevin

so how's that approach working? You know, the one where you do the work b/c you "want to make her happy"????

How's THAT GOING FOR YOU???

Oh yeah, it isn't.

(( j ))

citygirl,
can you check out "newbie's first post" thread? it's a new person who accidentally hijacked ("Kara") the original, and needs some help. So she's actually on another person's thread but that's the title so far...

I just posted to her...

Kev, sorry for the temp hijack...

(( j ))

No. It isn't.

Kevin

Hey Kevin,

How's it going?

You do realize you have friends here that are trying to help you right?

Stop caring about what your wife wants. You are obviously building relationships with your daughters. That is awesome.

Forget about trying to make your wife happy. I am wondering about your background because I don't know we have ever talked about it. So I will share my history with you. I remember More than one of my aquaintences in college that had girls (I will not even use the word girfriends) that would come over any time they called and do anything they asked. One had a girl that would come over and wash his car and then he would go out on a date with another girl. These guys would spend hours talking negatively about these girls who were only trying to please them. These girls were dedicated and only wanted to do anything they could to show these guys that they loved them. The guys had nothing but contempt for these girls...complete lack of respect....Amazing!

You have to realize that you are as important as your wife! She is not the queen of Sheeba. You are as important as your wife. Yes you screwed up (didn't we all) but if you want to make amends then become the better person and focus on your daughters. You and your wife may or may not ever get back together. Your 34...do you realize how many women out there would love to have a guy that is rehabilitated into thinking about their spouse and devoted to raising his children?

Or do you want to set the example for your daughters that when they get married they expect their husbands to act the way you are doing? Marriages need to be 100/50 and 50/100 relationships. Not 100/0.....

Stop trying to please your wife. She is not apprecciating it. She is looking at you as someone who is grovelling and it is not attractive. Let your daughters decide who isn't doing dishes, or clothes, or whatever. YOU right now are the responsible parent. And guess what ....as this goes on you will eventually reach a point that you are ready to move on and will look back and say I can't belive I acted like that. Stand up and be the role model for you daughters. Show strength. You don't have to be an ass but you need to show them that when life sucks you can't let it kick your butt all over the place.

tough to say and tougher to live but come on buddy. we all care about you or we wouldn't post all the time to you.

Sometimes I read and think you are someone making all this stuff up as some joke. Then I think about how I feel every day and think ..who knows?

Please stop worrying about your wife. If your kids need a clean plate then do the dishes. if your wife doesn't want to do the dishes then so what?

Honestly ... your wife is enjoying the freedom of not being married. do you really think she is going to say, "stop taking care of my kids"

you are killing yourself.....that goes with the enlightenment. The more you realize what you need to change the more you feel guilty that this was all your fault. It is NOT!!!! You will then transition into the phase that you realize there were other options.

You fix your demons and if your wife doesn't want to give you a second chance then THAT is not your fault. If you don't fix your demons then it is not fair to your kids or your wife.

Kids first, then you (because you will end up in some realtionship and owe it to yourself and that person) then your wife....

Good luck friend !!!!!!

Kenn,

Thanks for the advice. I guess I do kind of sound like one of those girls.

I don't make anything up on here. It is all real.

Kevin

W sent me a text this morning asking how D11 was doing. D11 threw up last night. I said D11 is sleeping. She asked if she was ok from last night. I said yes. Something just didn't agree with her, but she was fine shortly after.

W then asked if everything was going well. I responded yes.

That was the end of the conversation.

Kevin

Me and the girls went to church this morning. My step dad in law and MIL were also there. They came over and sat next to me in church. Then we all went to lunch together. It was me, step dad in law, MIL, my girls and a niece of mine.

We had a good lunch. They were talking about all of us going to my SIL's softball game tonite depending on the weather. They said they were very happy to hear that I got a job and a place of my own.

I think they are starting to warm up to me again now that I do have a job and am getting my own place. They refuse to step into the middle of the D and help out any. But if I can slowly warm people up again, it can't hurt in the future prospects if there is one.

I researched some more books last night. I'm trying to make sure I am on the right path for my career.

My step dad in law was saying that MIL got a call from an agency and they were talking and the recruiter from the agency said he was getting phone calls from Carolina from women who lost their jobs, houses, cars, everything and were willing to relocate for any kind of job. He said you aren't hearing that on the news.

Alot of people are going through really tough times right now. They just want a job. I just want my M. I don't care so much about the money as I do my M. But I am grateful for my job since my M is where it is.

It was good to be around the family some today. Now me and the girls are back home cleaning to make sure everything is fine for tomorrow.

Kevin

I finally had to have the talk with D11 today. She was hounding me for appetizers, a more expensive meal, desert afterwards at the restarant we were at. She would not let up. I kept saying no to certain things. It bothered me. Especially infront of the in laws who are about to be ex laws.

So this afternoon I pulled her aside and said hey. I'm sorry, but things are going to be different from now on for a while. I told her that I don't make as much as your mom and while yes she can and does afford the luxuries that you want, I can't right now. I told her I love her and will make sure she is taken care of. But I can't just buy her and her sister every whim they want now. As it is, since I am a contractor, I am not even making full salary what I would be if I were permanent because I don't get paid for holidays. I also found out that where I work, they let the contractors go for 2 weeks during Christmas since nobody is there to supervise. So I have to save for that to.

So D11 understood after I talked to her. I did not want to have that talk with her. But this was the second time she has pulled this and I can't keep combatting her in front of people.

It bothers me that I can't provide what she wants as me and W have been able to provide quite a bit the past 2 years. But that is no longer the case for me at this time.

I told her I am studying and working hard to provide her better in the future, but right now I am kind of limited. She said so you are waiting on raises and promotions? I said kind of yes. But not waiting, I am also trying to prepare and seek out.

Well, apparently the kids have already been working out the plans for their room in the apartment. And they want a bunk bed and D11 will sleep on top and D7 will sleep on bottom. They are planning all kinds of things. This is going to be fun. I am somehow looking forward to working with them and their ideas. They are excited about being able to design their own room together. Its gonna be neat.

Kevin

Kenn said..."You fix your demons and if your wife doesn't want to give you a second chance then THAT is not your fault."

We need to see things from a perspective other than the emotionally charged one that we see things from! These kinds of statements help so much!

Thanks.

hang in there Kevin,

Let me share a story. My wife makes about 20K more than me. When we seperated I didn't fight for any furniture in house because I didn't want to have my daughter see her house ripped apart. I also simply told my eight year old that things were going to be a little tighter since both mom and I have to figure our finances out and we aren't spending as a family anymore.

My wife openly discussed four trips in front of daughter and on one to see her brother, my daughter got excited and said she love uncle XXX and would love to see him. My wife said "no baby, this is going to be a trip just so Uncle XXX and I can spend time together.

All I did was say to my daughter - we have to plan our vacation this year, where do you want to go?

SO a month later she is talking to the baby sitter and says, "My dad and mom don't have a lot of money because of the divorce but my mom takes trips all the time with out me and my dad is planning to take me on his next trip.

Moral of the story... me? I am not the greatest guy in the world, wife is not evil, daughter(s) will be albe to figure out who and want is really going on....kids are pretty intuitive.

Stay true to your goals.....buddy. It's all going to work out in the end. Family (kids are going to be with you for life). Stay true to your goals. You don't have to explain every decision you make. Even though somehtimes we feel like it...and I do me we LOL

Sorry to highjack.....

Could someone please help me. I have been on here as long as Kevin but I guess it just isn't as interesting. i could really use some advise though.

Please, and kevin sorry

Thanks Kenn,

My wife make 35k more than me. And it hurts to see her spend like crazy and knock me for being a little tighter and trying to watch money.

I am trying to focus on sports right now to take my mind off things. But it really burns me.

Kevin

In all honesty, I'm done Kenn. I don't care anymore. My W is different. Money means more to her than anything else. DBing means nothing to her. I'm out of here.

Good luck to you.

I'm done. I wish the best for you. Call me a failure if you want.

Kevin

If yall have any any questions going forward, I am staying in touch with Jaguilar.

Kevin

Kevin,

I really hope this isn't the end for you because you mention about how your W doesn't believe in DBing.

Well the truth is YOU don't believe in DBing. YOu came here with absolutely nothing and it was only through the advice and commitment of the people on these boards who have helped to push you into the right direction.

YOU are the only one who can't see that you've made any progress in your sitch. We all have seen it except for you.

YOU haven't even begun to DB. Let's face it. You've only been at this for 5 months. And during that whole time you expected immediate changes when you yourself didn't change that much. But we saw how you could succeed and pushed you. We helped you to go back and see your girls once more. Especially 25mlc. And you say we can call you a "failure". Please!

No one has ever called you that and never will! You just refuse to see all the positive changes that have been done so far and remain to stay on the pity party. By saying what you just did isn't fair to those of us who believed in you and had and continue to have faith in you. It's selfish and mean-spirited.

I really hope this isn't the last 2x4 you're going to accept Kevin and that you hang in there.

We've all been where you are. Everyone of us.

I didn't mean to hurt anyone Stuck or down play anything anyone has said. I feel like I have let all of you down because you all have worked so hard to help me. I feel personally like I have failed. I have seen no change in my W. I have been at this for 8 months and I don't want to to continue to ask you all for advce any longer when I have not been able to apply it and be patient.

I think I am just really frusturated and never I never learned to grow as a man because I was never forced to before. I'm 34 and I am an ebarrasement to my age. My W reminds me of that in many different ways. I think I drank so much in my 20s that my mind never really matured in my 30s like it shoud have.

Thanks bro, I will keep reading your posts and hoping you succeed.

I think I am just done dude. I think I failed miserably because I couldn't just stick to something. I fell off so many times and I feel like there is no hope now. And I feel like it is all my doing. Its nothing you all did. Its everything I did. I failed myself and everyone else. All I want is my W back and its the one thing I can't seem to get back.

I would do anything to have her back. And it doesn't matter. I'm not mature. I should be and I never did mature. I don't know why. I don't know if it was the drinking that held me back or if it was something else, but my mind never matured.

And now I feel constantly over whelmed by everything. Things I shouldn't be I do. I feel like my mind is not sharp anymore. My W has even pointed that out to me that she thinks I am not as smart as I used to be. She thinks the drinking over the years has damaged me and I feel like it has to. I try to focus and I can't seem to retain anything anymore.

I just have to work things out on my own. Nobody can do it for me. And you all have to me that. I just need to do that now. So I am going to take some time to do that. I can't keep coming back here for advice and not applying it. I am wasting everybodies time by doing that.

I need some time off to figure me out. It is nothing personal. Its just that I have to do it for me. I am tired of wasting people's time.

Thanks for everything,

Kevin

You beat yourself up a lot, and counseling and meds may help with that. It is NEVER too late to start maturing, growing, and implementing 180s... and there are plenty examples of 34 year old men living at their mom's house. Give yourself SOME credit, dude!

SUGGESTION: If what you've done in the past 8 months isn't working, do a 180. Forget the 'grand scheme' and long term goals for now. Start with one change or "micro goal" and focus on just the one until you accomplish that one. Keep the first one so small that you'll reach it in 24 hours, and do it. If you fail, start over on that ONE and do it.

.

Let's face it. You've been here for 8 months. Try looking at how long 25MLC has been at it or the other people who have made it. Look how long it's taken them.

Geez. There are two things you need the most right now. Patience and Prayer.

You know why you're all over the place? It's because you haven't done the one thing that everyone here and the DB and DR books all recommend and that is to write out a list of goals. And I mean concrete ones. I think for you, you need to make them as micro as possible as MNG described.

You say you don't see any positives. Do you really want us to count off how well you are off now than you were when you first came to these boards? You were leaving your home. No job, no career, obsessed about the OM, your W treated you like crap and you said your IL and everyone else in the world hated/disrespected you.

Since then, you've gone back home. Found a job. Your W is talking to you more civilly. You get to see your girls. Your IL are much nicer to you.

Do you really want us to say you're a failure when you really haven't? Try asking someone else on the boards who have been at this for over 5 years without one single bit of improvement, yet still maintains optimism.

Talk to a real professional and get your head out of the pity train you're riding on right now. We all see how your sitch has gotten better, but for some reason, you can't. Or when things do get better, you get something else to gripe about.

Write down your goals. Check them off whenever they are achieved. Then after you've accomplished them, write new ones. It's as simple as that.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

I had a lady friend over and her lady friend last night when my MIL brought by daughters home. MIL looked upset. We weren't doing anything other than watching the Yankees/Red Sox game on tv. So I called W to say she would probably be getting a phone call from her mom about it and that nothing was going on between me and the ladies.

I also started drinking last night after 8 months of this. I totally blew it. I just found myself not caring anymore. I'm just being honest. I had major set backs last night all because I did not show self discipline and got frusturated.

So I took major steps backwards last night in a few areas. Today I am getting my feet back going forward. Believe me, its not easy to post this after my screw up last night. But I have to.

Its storming outside this morning. We just had some close lightning and thunder hit. My dog is going nuts about it.

I'm sure W is probably wondering why I bothered to call her last night.

geez, the setbacks I had last night. UGGGG.............

I was stupid. I let frusturation get the best of me and I so blew it.

Kevin

Yes, I drank last night. More than I should have. I am so disapointed in myself for drinking last night. The setbacks that probably caused are unreal.

Geez. So I will move forward and try even harder. You have no idea how much I am beating myself up this morning. I was making headway with the family yesterday and I blew it by having those lady friends over when the kids got back. UGGGGGG.

Kevin

I am so nervouse about how tonite is going to go. W gets back this morning.

I can't believe I drank last night and had those lady friends in the house when MIL showed up with the kids. Hoq do I recover from this one?

W doesn't know I drank. But since I called her to explain the ladies... Uggg...

What an idiot I was.

Oh man. I am doomed I feel.

Kevin

Even worse... I told my wife I love her as I was getting off the phone with her last night.

Nice one.

Kevin

Kevin... Not sure if I ever posted to you before, but...

Do something...

Go back and re-read your posts AS IF you are an adult female. Do you SOUND like someone interesting to be around, is confident, a decision maker, a protector, etc...??? No, you sound like a train wreck!

Now, we ALL sound like train wreck's at some point, and I do realize this is a place to share/journal/complain, etc... BUT, at some point, you'll WANT to be a man WOMEN want!

So, if I get this right, you stayed at "the house" with the kids for the weekend, while W is away with OM (?), do some great things by engaging with your kids, and then INVITE OTHER WOMEN (no matter how good of friends they are) over WHILE you're with the kids, and then have too much to drink? And, you KNEW the in-laws would be dropping back off the kids? Wow.

Save the WOMEN FRIENDS AND DRINKING for times without the kids.

Seriously.

Take that new job (OK, NOT PERFECT, BUT EMPLOYMENT), and do the best damn job of it you can! SHOW your employers how GOOD YOU ARE! Who knows? Maybe there are other, better things you can do there? (MAYBE NOT SPEND THEIR TIME ON DB.COM?) In your free time, pursue what it is you DREAM of doing!

Take your down time, and better yourself through exercise, relaxation, social activities, church, etc...

I'm here to tell you, as a female,
#1 - Be a man.
#2 - Be a father.
#3 - Probably not a good idea to mix the being a SINGLE/BACHELOR man lifestyle with being a father.

You can do this! REally!

Kevin you really need to get to AA and some C. Unfortunately I knew the drinking was going to come back, been there. You need figure out a way to control yourself wo/self medicating, you need the TOOLS to do this. I know you didn't drink for a while but when you started to get more depressed you went back to it and unless you get help you will again.

I'm here to tell you, as a female,
#1 - Be a man.
#2 - Be a father.

Things that so many of us here need to do regardless!

I sent a text to MIL this morning apologizing and explaining they were just friends. I told her I will make sure it doesn't happen again.

Kevin

I spoke to W. She has no issue with last night. She told me not to apologize to her mom for that. Her mom is pissed at me though.

Her mom told me not to text or email her.

I told W thw kids want bunk beds and that her mom is against it. W said its not her moms choice.

I don't want this apartment. I just want to be back with W. But there seems to be no way to avoid it.

Kevin

Sorry everyone. I let everyone down. I am regretting things terribly today.

Please stick with me and ignore the stuff from last night. I'm gonna work even harder. I won't slip up on the drinking again.

Kevin

Kevin,

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised by what happened last night. Please, go to AA, get counseling.

Also, leave your MIL alone. Leave your wife alone. Leave other women alone.

Geez Kev, you can't help but shoot yourself in the foot every time.

When are you going to go 24 hours without mentioning her or contacting her?

Be a MAN. You are STILL acting like a BOY.

Stacy

Kevin the person you're really letting down is you. PLEASE get some help.

Your quick reactions to any external input are similar to ones I've struggled with. I am getting better at only checking personal e-mails once daily and only talking to W at most every OTHER day. It's HARD, and it took practice and serious resistance of the temptation.

Try to go 24 hours without apologizing to MIL, to W, to a store clerk, to anybody, and not even to us. Don't Apologize! Every time you do you train your brain to focus on your mistakes rather than what you are doing correctly.

Tell us, what worked for you today? What did you do well today?

I'm going to keep posting.

W is mad at me foe using D11's house key this weekend instead of the garage door opener. She said she doesn't want me having access to her house and how does she know I won't make a copy. I did not make a copy and I have no plans to. She sais we will talk tonite. She is mad at me. Her mom is mad at me.

The dog was out in the drive way somehow in the rain when she got home. I guess the gate didn't close all the way.

She wasn't happy with D7's room even though the rest of the house was done.

I can't win with her. Her and her mom find every reason to nitpick me to death no matter what I do.

I guess we will see hoq the talk goes tonite.

Kevin

Quote:

She said we will talk tonight.

Do you really think it's a good thing to talk to her tonight? I know you want to do whatever she wants but you can't. If you HAVE to talk tonight if she starts yelling and getting mean PLEASE PLEASE do not take it. Stand up to her say you seem upset it would probably be better to talk another time and LEAVE.

BTW I don't get her problem with the key if you can get in through the garage with the opener...makes no sense to me.

Kevin,

Why are you even considering talking to her tonight? How is that going to put you closer to your goal? You know that it won't. You need to go dark.

She said she wants to talk tonite. I said ok. I'm sure it won't be pretty but I will maintain my composure.

I'm not looking forward to it honestly. I'm not sure why she always has to be so short with me and take the tone she does.

Kevin

Dang it then TELL her tonight is not a good night. You don't have to do whatever she wants ESPECIALLY if you KNOW it won't be pretty.

You do know you arent required to jump each time your W wants something, right? So what if she wants to talk? Do YOU want to talk? If not then dont.

She is short with you and takes the tone she does with you because you tolerate it. If you are not comfortable with the way she speaks to you then let her know. Set that boundary for YOU and get back some self respect. IMO its perfectly acceptable to say "W, I understand you have some things on your mind but until you feel you can discuss them with me in a even and rational fashion and not talk down to me then no further discussion will take place". And yes, she probably will get pissed at that because WAS dont like having boundaries set. They dont like NOT being in charge of the show. They dont like realizing they arent in full control anymore. She dictates when you talk, when you come over, what you do when you do come over and when you see your kids. She has you on a leash and only you can set yourself free of it.

Stop apologizing to your W for every little thing. It just gives her more power and it shows her that you have no self respect.

Clearly your W does not want to reconcile. So, why do you continue to let yourself be treated like garbage? Chances are either way she wont reconcile right now, if ever. So you might as well stand up for youself and at least not be led around like a puppy.

Not only have you handed all the power to her on a silver plate, you also have handed all the power over to your in-laws. Your actions are helping to form a huge team against you (W, in laws). Break down some of the power you are giving them.

The only way this woman will ever want to reconcile IF IT IS EVEN a possibility, is if you became much stronger around her than you are now.

So if it's NOT going to happen, you should become stronger b/c you want to model that for your kids and oh by the way, YOU WANT TO BE THE BEST MAN YOU CAN BE, FOR YOU AND YOUR LIFE...and IF a reconciliation IS possible it will ONLY happen if you become much stronger than you are now. Either way, get it?

This is hard. But it is NOT COMPLICATED....You make it harder. This is really simple. Be stronger.
SO what if you don't "feel stronger"? Become that way or fake it til you make it and that DOES help and works... this is the last time I can say this Kev, but you control how you THINK....and where the head goes, the heart will follow, eventually. So start thinking straight and thinking strong and you will FEEL stronger in time...

(( j ))

Originally Posted By: CityGirl

- Set that boundary for YOU and get back some self respect.
- She has you on a leash and only you can set yourself free of it.
- Stop apologizing to your W for every little thing.
- Why do you continue to let yourself be treated like garbage?
- You might as well stand up for yourself and at least not be led around like a puppy.

I COMPLETELY agree with CityGirl and have recently found this power in me. The W got angry and didn't like that I was standing up for myself, but I tell you what --- I'm walking on water right now and my confidence and self-respect has SKY ROCKETED.

My only add is to not be rude and angry when you stand up for yourself, as you will be tempted to be, but acting in a way that you would want your kids to see you (and learn from you) SETTING A BOUNDARY. Go in with a goal in mind, chin up, shoulders back, don't take any more of her sh*t, and accomplish YOUR goal regardless of what she throws at you. She has to get pissed at you for you standing up for what is acceptable behavior before she will ever respect you.

.

You keep saying you'd "do anything to get your wife back" but that is NOT TRUE..b/c in the next sentence you say you are giving up!! And you admit your emotional development was arrested in your 20s due to drinking too much. That is common with alcoholics and addicts b/c it DOES PREVENT spiritual and emotional growth. People who become addicted early in life are like teenagers b/c they stopped their growth at that point. SO grow up now! Like I said, this is not complicated...it's just hard.

But for someone who says he'd "Do anything for her" to then just "quit" is a paradox. You just said a totally contradictory thing!! & YOU DO have a negative outlook. Maybe your pessimistic outlook was why you self medicated with alcohol..who knows? Who cares? Fix it now.

As for your wife not believing in DBing..why does she even know the term? Please tell me you did not tell her you were doing that? Oh. great. No wonder she does not believe the changes are real. You DID ONLY DO THEM TO GET HER BACK and that is why you are "quitting DBing"... that's like saying "I am quitting the personal growth I was starting, b/c my wife did not come back to me..."
thereby proving you missed the whole premise of the approach. IT was not about manipulating and pretending to SEE IF SHE'D CHANGE.... Gee Kev, being a better man does not seem "worth it" to you? Why? b/c how you lived before was so great? You were drunk or hungover or asleep and sleepwalking through your life and NOW YOU ARE AWAKE...do you really want it back the way it truly was?? That is NOT healthy.

DBing is not just about M. The whole GAL and PMA are life skills YOU need. It's about growing inwardly, and then outwardly, and becoming the best man you can become and seeing how your R's with EVERYONE IN YOUR LIFE improves as a result. It is NOT about getting YOUR WIFE TO CHANGE...I don't know how you missed that point. Do you see what we are saying now? Do you want to be happy? Then keep growing and keep GAL and developing happiness skills. How can that not be worth it? If you're too down and depressed to think you deserve to be happy, then start a program for it b/c of your d's...then when you are healthier, you'll see that you are worth it and being happy IS something that "even Kevin is allowed to be."

(( j ))

W said be prepared to talk about what I am moving out of the house tonite. I'm guessing this is leading to the final divorce decree getting ready to be filed.

$\:\($

Kevin

Kev,

I think you are taking this all too personally. She held off on filing the divorce decree until she got you to take care of the kids, the house and the dog while she had her fun weekend. Now she is critical of the way you did it? She could have paid someone to do it. But she didn't. She used you. Now she thinks you didn't do it well enough. That's her problem. Next time, if she really doesn't like the way you do things, she can pay someone.

OK, now she is back from the weekend. Things went well with OM, and she wants to proceed with the divorce. So? What does that have to do with you? Nothing. She would have done this anyway. She only waited to get the weekend away with a free housesitter.

Everything is not your fault. If the kids and the dogs are alive, you did your job.

"She has to get pissed at you for you standing up for what is acceptable behavior before she will ever respect you."

Makes sense.

I'm wondering, do I take some things I want. It seems that before she had in mind what she wanted me to take and it was basically all the stuff she doesn't want.

If there is something I would like that she also wants, its likely to make her defensive again. She basically wants the nice expensive furniture and wants me to take the rest.

I think I will let her keep the trash can. I'll just buy another one.

Kevin

W brought back something for the kids, herself and her dad from Florida. Nothing for me. That kind of hurt. She was handing it out just now.

Kevin

Originally Posted By: kevin4dallas

W brought back something for the kids, herself and her dad from Florida. Nothing for me. That kind of hurt. She was handing it out just now.

Kevin

If she got you something, you'd think she had changed her mind and you'd pursue her like crazy! She doesn't want that to happen.
My wife didn't get me a birthday card yesterday, and I didn't expect one. I'm OK with it. There is too much resentment and anger there for her to do something like that now.

You let the lack of a present hurt you? Really? You are stronger than that! Hey, my H used OUR money that we had saved for a year to take OW on a vacation WE planned. LOL! And yes, that stung something terrible. But a little trinket from Florida? Shouldnt even be a blip on your radar.

WAS avoid doing anything that they think will give the LBS "false hope" (i.e. bringing you a gift). So, dont let yourself get caught up in false hope and learn to manage your expectations. Right now you should be expecting the final divorce decree to be filed ASAP and that you will soon be a single man and nothing more than a co-parent with your W. That way, if and when that happens you will be ready and if it doesnt, look how strong you got preparing for the worst while still making your life better.

And no, your W doesnt get to keep all the nice stuff and you take all the trashy leftovers. Do you have an attny? If so what has been said about the division of housheold property? I know laws differ by state but my attny basically told me to either (A) work it out between the two of you or (B) declare the value of every bit of furniture and art and we will figure it out that way.

It is stupid to bicker over a garbage can or something like that. But as far as big ticket items go there is no reason for you to get all the sloppy seconds. So, get one step ahead of her. Go room by room and write down the value of each "big ticket item", present it to her and tell her you have come up with a plan to divide things but would like her input as well. Its fair, reasonable and you both get a say. And yes, she will put up a hissy fit because you are setting boundaries but too bad. And if she does continue the conflict simply say.. well, maybe when you have had some time to review we can visit this subject again. Let her know you will be fair and reasonable but no more BS will be tolerated!

The trash can was just a joke I was making.

Its not the present itself, it was thought behind it and the way she did it right in front of me almost to make a point to me. Why did she need to do it right in front of me? Just to be mean?

So anyways, she had our talk. She critisized me for how D7 looked at the birthday party, for me having the 2 lady friends over last night when the kids got there, for D7's bed having clothes on it even though the rest of the house had been cleaned and laundry done, for having D11's key this weekend and not using the garage door opener. She said she will be taking D11's key back now and that I will not be coming over to the house anymore since I have a place starting Friday. She doesn't want me visiting any during the week this week. Thats fine. I won't. She reiterated that her mom is very pissed at me.

We went through and I pretty much just agreed to the big ticket items I knew she wanted me to take. I told her I'd like the kitchen table as opposed to the one her sister is borrowing. W said no. She said she does the entertaining and it spreads out so she is keeping it.

She offered me the washer and dryer which I will need since the house we were renting already have a washer and dryer. 2 couches she wants to get rid of, microwave since there is already a microwave built into the kitchen, desk chair, dishes. She said she is just going to buy herself all new dishes. I have to buy all 3 beds for me and the girls and dressers. The other furniture is stuff from her mom that she is keeping. Thats fine. She offered me a couple of lamps, our big tv and playstation and a small tv and small stand. She is keeping most of the furniture since alot of it is stuff her parents gave us. So I guess I have no claim to that. I will have to buy more stuff.

She had a rather cold tone to her. It wasn't til the end that I was about to leave that she lightened up a bit and talked a bit about her trip. She asked me again if I wanted her to help decorate the kids room. I said no. I said I am excited about doing it with them. She said ok.

My dad told me tonite that when she starts talking to me from now on just flip her the bird and walk out and be done with her. This coming from a tradional catholic guy who is first and foremost for marriage. He told me I have lost this battle and its over for now. He said only an act of God is going to change her. He said arrange it to where I don't have to see her or hear from her anymore.

Kevin

Again, who knows why she did it (pass out presents in front of you). But you are obsessing on something you wont ever know and making your W the focus AGAIN. Who knows.. who cares!

Your daughter is 7 and she is old enough to put away clothes on her bed. You should have said... "gee, I guess we need to put more structure in place for d7 so she knows its her job to keep her bed neat".

Personally I would not have listened to a word about her trip. Once she brought it up I would have said "glad you had fun, see you later" and left.

Be glad you dont have to go there anymore and you have your own place. It will be good for you.

Flipping her the bird isnt nice and wont be a good example of your kids of a strong man. But moving on will be.

Quote:

It is NOT about getting YOUR WIFE TO CHANGE...I don't know how you missed that point. Do you see what we are saying now?

Yes, I see what you are saying. And yes, I got side tracked and kept thinking I could change her back if I just am nice and prove responsible, and am a good father and a good person. I should have been doing it purely for me.

Kevin

Finally, you get it! $\:\)$

You're getting there, just keep focusing. I personally would stay completely away from her. Get too busy...

The thing is, you cant make someobdy "change back" no matter how good you try and become. When a spouse dumps you they really just cant stand it anymore and their mind is made up and there is no changing back to them and if they do reconsider, it takes a long time and really, they need to be on their own first to really take a second look. Once the affair happens it really is tough. Not impossible, but tough. Its all too late for them. But its not too late for you.

I'm not going to flip her the bird. I was just shocked and found it funny that my dad who is ultra catholic conservative said that.

No, flipping her the bird would not be DBing. I have no intention of doing that.

It would not make me the better person to do that.

Kevin

Quote:

recently found this power in me. The W got angry and didn't like that I was standing up for myself, but I tell you what --- I'm walking on water right now and my confidence and self-respect has SKY ROCKETED.

To add to my recent statement, I did appear to push W 'over the edge' with showing my backbone. She didn't like not being in full control and is lashing back pretty bad right now. PDT tells me she is testing me with threats of filing right away and to stick it out.

Here's what I do know: I feel better than I have in years! If I had known how standing up for myself and holding my ground was going to affect my confidence, I would have done it weeks ago - if not years (I simply didn't know what I didn't know). I realize the outcome may not be what I originally wanted, but I find that my self-confidence is now more valuable than what I presumed the marriage to be.

Thats good. I'm glad to hear that.

Kevin

Hi.

Kevin

Hello Kevin, some storms we had yesterday. That's weather in Texas.

Yes it was. In florida you get 30 minute storms. In texas you get day long or multiple day storms.

I think yesterday reaffirmed how far removed my W is emotionally from me.

Its made me rethink some things of which I won't say right now as I still continue to ponder some new thoughts.

Kevin

Remember, you and the kids.

Kevin,

What about the 24 hours without mentioning your wife. STOP!!

Sorry. You are right. 24 hours.

Kevin

I guess I have nothing to talk about.

Kevin

Why, because you're not supposed to mention her?

How's the job, the kids, your life -- how is working on getting a life going?

Come ON Kev!

Stacy

Kevin - that alone should be a HUGE red flag to you! You have nothing to say because you were told not to talk about your W!

Not one positive or interesting thing happened to you today? Not one second of YOUR day is worthy of a mention?

I can yammer on about my H and how much he hurt me like the best of them (and I do often, lol!) but even when I am in my "bad place" (again, I go there often) I still have *something* else to talk about.

You are moving in a week - that is thrilling! Do you have your lists made for what you will need? Have you looked up creative and inexpensive decorating tips for the style of home you want to create? How about hitting some thrift stores for stuff you might need? I always wanted a sleigh bed but they are so expensive. I found an old sleigh bed frame at the Goodwill for 50.00. I spent about 50.00 on paint and materials to refinish it and its gorgeous! How about going on a hunt to see if you can find the items your daughters need and see if they can be spruced up so they are like new.

Something? Anything?

Kev,

You'd better listen to CityGirl and me. If 25 gets wind of this crap, she'll kick your a$$ - and you'll deserve it.

Now man up!

Stacy

Good point. Well, today I just kind of looked over some reports we will be doing once we get full access to stuff. I had a banana for lunch. I came back to where I am staying and ate some food.

Yes, moving day is coming quickly. I won't be able to get any beds til mid May. But I can sleep on the couch and the girls can bring their sleeping bags.

I compiled a list of somethings I will take from the house last night.

I'm going to do some more reading tonite and praying. I'll be honest, the closer I get to this move, the less I am looking forward to being alone. I guess thats why GAL is supposed to help. I'm trying to study and learn more. I hope it pays off career wise.

I guess my girls are doing good. I haven't talked to them today. D7 has a fiend trip tomorrow so I will look forward to hearing how that goes.

Kevin

Dude!

You've got to get past the "sky is falling" stuff. Do little stuff NOW to make yourself feel better.

I didn't even know about db'ing but the first thing I did after the bomb was thought of stuff that made me feel good. I knew that a crisis on top of depression was going to test everything I had so I decided I was going to do everything the opposite of what I typically wanted to do when I was depressed.

Instead of staying inside, eating, shunning company, not exercising, etc. I hit the pool and treadmills, told myself no beer or wine, setup a Friday night concert event with friends, bought some new shirts, went thru my contact lists and contacted people I hadn't seen in a while, stocked up my favorite flavors of tea and chocolate, planned out all my clothes for the week and made sure all my shirts were perfectly pressed, shoes polished, etc. Cleaned my car. ...All in the first week! I've continued doing most of this stuff (and developed a bad chocolate dependency but that's another story.)

When I moved out of the bedroom, once again I did little stuff to make me feel better. I wasn't about to sleep on the couch with an old blanket. No way! I bought all new stuff for the upstairs bed and set up the room nice (and now she wants to steal my comforter heh heh). I keep the room and my clothes looking great.

All this was for nothing more than to for ME to feel simple pleasure. Yeah, I was still sad about the overall sitch, but this little stuff really helped liven things up and made me look and feel better and act more confident - at home, at work, with friends, etc.

Start with this little stuff first, then start looking forward.

Its a journey I am mentally trying to prepare for. BTW, when I am at work and things have been slow so far, I post from my blackberry phone, not their computer. I don't log into anything on their computers.

Kevin

I just checked 25's post list. She is making the rounds. I might be next. lol. Ok, better cheer up. YAY!!! Moving this weekend. Awesome!!! Gonna have my own place!!! YAY!!!

Girls are going to love it!!! They are looking forward to decorating their room together!! WOOHOO!!!

I'm going to be living the bachelor life. YAY!!!!!

I have a job at the moment!!! Awesome!!!

I will have something to eat!!!

Kevin

Kev,

Not the "bachelor life" - that speaks of dating, which you are NOT ready to do for many reasons.

How about the "awesome dad life" $;\)$

Stacy

Quote:

Ok, better cheer up. YAY!!! Moving this weekend. Awesome!!! Gonna have my own place!!! YAY!!!
Girls are going to love it!!! They are looking forward to decorating their room together!! WOOHOO!!!
I'm going to be living the bachelor life. YAY!!!!!
I have a job at the moment!!! Awesome!!!
I will have something to eat!!!

Kevin, I'm fairly sure this was sarcastic, but it would've been perfect.

It is so telling that when you can't talk about W, the best post you can come up with is "hi". There is a huge sucking void in your life, and it is a giant black hole called W.

I will tell you that being apart from her while you were in Florida definitely improved you - being back I have seen you slide back down the hole.

You moving out is the best thing you can do. I have completely stopped contacting my W - maybe 3-4 times in a month, and about the kids, letting dog out because I got stuck at work. I even tried to call neighbors to let the dog out before I called her. NOT seeing her every day has made things so much better. I structure my days so that I don't have to see her.

I've told you this before: detaching is agonizing at first, but it gets better every day. I'm starting to notice things again, focus on my kids, get invested in my work, feel good about working out, and so on.

I respect your "one marriage" belief, and I support it. I'm 31, and I have no plans to ever date again, let alone get married, and it's not fun to envision a single life. But God is enough.

Personally, I'd like to see a little more than lip service to this "God" thing. Here is what I did, and it's the best thing that ever happened to me.

I turned everything over to God, completely. I told Him that I screw things up, so it's his mess to handle, and I believe that he can do a much better job than I. At first, it was lip service for me, then I started not allowing myself to have those "theoretical conversations" in my head. When I started them, I caught myself, and turned it into prayer - prayer for wisdom, discernment, peace, and blessing. Anytime I thought about W and I, I stopped myself, and turned THAT into prayer for a friend or family member - someone in need.

I realize you're just now trying to get through 24 hours without mentioning W, so maybe we'll just make this a goal? $\:\)$

DW,

I didn't mean the dating life. I just meant the single life. The best dad life. During my off weeks I will figure out what to do with myself.

Wow, I was tired tonite. I fell asleep right after my last post. But I just woke myself up so I can get back to sleep tonite. I haven't slept well the past couple of nights.

I think I am feeling a little stressed about things.

Kevin

JonF,

Good post. It worries me to be single the rest of my life. But I am turning this one over to God the best I can. I make a mess to when I try to get involved. And all my efforts to help out are just torn apart anyways.

I don't have contact for the most part unless it has something to do with the kids or we are switching off.

It is telling that I could not think of anything else to talk about. I guess when I have been focused on one thing for so long, I lose track of what else is going on in the world. I only know about the swine flu because my coworker was telling me about it. I couldn't tell you who my Dallas Cowboys drafted this past weekend. Thats a first for me.

I have been thinking about this apartment the closer I get and hoping since I have a contract job that it holds out and goes perm or I get a better job that is perm.

I'm also trying to make sure I am studying the right stuff and not wasting my time with something that won't help me.

I agree with the prayer stuff. I say I am putting it in Gods hands, but then I still continue to pray for it all day long each day which I guess is not really putting it in his hands or at least not really showing faith that he has remembered. And he is God. Of course he remembers. He knows what you need before you even ask. But he tells you to ask anyways. But he also tells you not to ramble in your prayer. And I ramble silently.

I will try and apply your prayer advice.

Kevin

Looks like 25 didn't stop by today.There was probably nothing to add today. I need to show action and complete the 24 hours.

Kevin

She's checking in on you, just not posting. You're still doing the samething you promised NOT to do weeks ago. Remember?

Yes. You're right.

Kevin

DavidsWife/Stacy - I will kick him in the pants when I see him. Hopefully lunch Friday. The kick will be from everyone here on his post especially from 25.

Hmm... I will have to make sure to wear extra padding that day.

Kevin

Jag - do you wear pointed, steel toe cowboy boots by chance?

:-)

No but I can buy some...extra steel and extra pointy.