http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...277#Post2103277Ok, was told my thread was too long. Time to start anew...
For those following, I have to admit, I am kind of surprised about something...
My H would have gotten my response to his D filing by at least today. I responded thru my L saying that we would answer them after my responsibilities in my training program decreased and after the holidays... after Jan. 1. Plus, he learned who my L is... one of the top in our area which his L knows and will have relayed to him.
And you know what? Not a word from him or his L. Curious as to what that means but trying not to mind read.
Interesting...see how long this lasts. Keep up the good work. Thanks for the advice too!
I have to admit something. Not been feeling like I want to try to save my M in the past day.
I think this was going to happen at some time in the M no matter what (the A). I am just glad the "bump" that led to this in the M wasn't the stress of kids. I don't know how I would have survived the fight. Hats off to those of you who have.
My H's character is weak even though I don't want to admit it. He can't be alone. He wouldn't survive. If he said he wanted to get back together today, I know nothing would have changed as he has not changed. He has blamed me for his problems for too long. He will always be unhappy, yet one of those people that always has a smile on his face in public. He will be unhappy because he relies on others for his happiness and self-validation.
I am recognizing the feeling of indifference in my toward my H. I don't even allow myself to feel anger toward him, just pity.
I have those days too. For now I wait them out and I usually find the strength to keep going. At some point these feelings may not go away. Maybe that is when it is time to move on. I figure no one can do this without feeling overwhelmed at times, so a few off days or even a few weeks is normal.
We get to see a whole new, and not-so-pretty side to the ones we love. We have to look and see if the relationship is "worth it," all without any positive feedback from our spouse. In a way, it seems to me that this is a more honest way to look at your spouse than the rush of romance. You get to see them, warts and all. Then you have to decide if you can or should stay in the R. Some things will never be fixed, but maybe by knowing the dangers that are there, we can find a path to a fully loving R again. Then again, maybe the R holds challenges we cannot or will not accept.
I left my first H because he was emotionally abusive, a compulsive liar, and I saw no hope that he would ever grow or change. In that relationship, I looked at him and at myself. I saw a man who's issues were way more than I caould handle. It was a matter of survival. I have never regretted that decision.
Good stuff there from Hope for zen. And I replied to your advice in my own thread, thanks again...just re-read it and found it enlightening
Thanks for your advice. I am still feeling indifference. On a positive note, I can really feel my confidence coming through. I really held my head high today during all of my mundane errands (had the day off). I enjoyed being by myself.
I realized today how low my self-esteem had gotten being with my H. I am not saying it was his fault, we were just very emotionally fused. I convinced myself whole-heartedly that I was the lucky one to have him. He allowed and encouraged me to think/feel this way I can see in retrospect. And what I can also see is that I was blind to the fact that it simply wasn't true. If anything, it was the other way around. But really, we both brought a lot to the table. Unfortunately, we didn't know how to deal with the feelings, or sometimes the lack thereof, that come with a long term relationship. I really thought (& so did he) that I was the one that was f**ed up because my life growing up was challenging. In reality, the 'almost' D that his parents had really screwed him and his brothers up. I can see that now with a little distance from the situation. I knew his brother's relationships were nothing to envy. I somehow thought I got the stable one. What a joke!! I idolized his family putting them above my own. I realize that now and am making amends with my family. They deserved so much better from me.
What you just posted above sounds so similar to what I feel about my relationship, when I am in my more honest and less needy moments. Also, i love your quote, I saw it a couple days ago and haven't gotten it out of my mind.
I thought your post got banned. LOL
Glad to see you just changed your name.
You will continue to feel like you are responsible for the A. You will in time forgive yourself for the Marriage failings that you owned.
I still see you thinking about what he "might" feel or "pity" for him. You really need to understand that owning your part and forgiving yourself is the big step forward here. He is in "Love" land, understand that you are rational and he isn't. The goal is empathy and focusing on your self respect.
Nothing you continue to reflect on benefits you other than "fixing" the part of your responsibility. When the time comes you will realize you don't owe him S***. He stepped out and you didn't, that's the difference.
Keep focusing on you and "Let go" of how he views you and the way you feel.
Trust me, when you actually "Let Go" he will notice you.
Faith gave you some great things to think about today. Awesome stuff there. I'm not really in a place today where I have anything in me to add to it right now, struggling... Will check back in later though.
You are right Faith. And I think he has noticed since I let go (as much as I have been able to at this point). The last two times he tried to engage me in conversation, and I didn't bite, it hurt him.
The first time I was pleasant and smiled but was distracted and cut it short. The look of pain and confusion on his face, which he quickly hid, did not go unnoticed. The second time was when I put down the boundary of not talking to me about the D at work. That made him a little angry and he tried to take it out on me later in the day.
It has been essentially 2 weeks going on 3 since we have had any conversation. I suppose it doesn't seem very long at all except that he has never been able to go that long without talking to me. He was always the one that called in our relationship and was the constant gardener, especially in the past few years. It is such a weird feeling not hearing from him. It is not happiness or sadness, somewhere in the middle.
Thanks for the post. Sorry to hear you are struggling GW. I hope it gets better soon.
You know Faith, I keep thinking about your words. I do appreciate your post.
The thought that comes back to me again and again though is: His wrong doesn't absolve me of my wrong. Just because most of us would agree that he is wrong'er' seeking love elsewhere doesn't take away my responsibility in the breakdown of our marriage.
My anger does surface and I definitely think "I don't owe him s***". But it doesn't make me feel any better about my part in our relationship breaking down. I want to fix my part. I will have to do this by asking for forgiveness. I know that about myself.
I know I hurt him very, very deeply. There is no need to remind me of the hurt he has caused me, it is all over this board. My actions are what bother me the most. I can't control his. I don't want to hurt another future partner in the same way. I am fiercely independent and shut people out emotionally. It has served me well protecting myself through the years. However, there wasn't a place for it in my M. I am guilty of giving up on the M too but in a different way.
I need to continue to work through forgiving myself for my part.
I am reading the 5 languages of apology now. I will see how I feel after reading this. I won't apologize to him without running the letter by the board, if/when I do write it.
How have others learned to forgive themselves for their part? I am really struggling with this today.
It is hard. Forgiving yourself and your S is hard in my opinion. That is an understandable struggle. There is a great thread about forgiveness in one of the forum, it might be in the piecing forum
How have others learned to forgive themselves for their part? I am really struggling with this today.
You will have good days and bad days.
It really takes time and hard work on yourself.
I still go back and think how I could have done things differently.
However, I don't dwell on it.
I immediately acknowledge to myself that there is literally nothing I can do to change my W's mind. She will change/not change at her own free will.
What does that leave me with? ME.
Then I look at myself and the work I'm continuing to do, so that I never go back to the person I was. I continually move forward.
I forgive myself because I owned my part of the breakdown and diligently try to better myself.
I accept that the past is the past and strive for a better me in the future.
I still get sad and angry, but I also feel happy and thankful at times too.
I'm thankful that this happened just for the fact that it made me dig within to find myself and I DON'T NEED her to be happy.
Thanks GW, I read the thread. It was just what I needed.
Thank you too Faith. I will continue on the same journey of bettering myself. I think it is 95% certain that my next relationship will be with someone other than my current H. I am terrified of repeating my behavior and experiencing this all over again. I guess we all are... no matter who the R is with... I find myself thankful in some ways too. I never would have dug deep either. I would have lived status quo and that is not what I want from life.
Thanks again.
I work at forgivness each day...
Forgivness is a Decision...
I use the light dimmer switch as my example...
As you turn the light dimmer switch clockwise the light gets brighter and brighter...
Once you make the decision to forgive...you have to slowly turn the dimmer switch clockwise each week/month and eventually
the forgivness process gets brighter and brighter...
Once we make the decision to forgive...the process is not instantaneous...it takes awhile...
Forgivness is a gift we give ourselves, but our mate and children and whole family benefit from the forgivness process.
I hope this helps.
I think it helps in seeing other people struggle with this too. I know I am not alone and that is the most comforting. It stops the 'what is wrong with me' internal voice.
Today I had a session with my IC. I think it came at just the right time. I explained how I was struggling with forgiving myself and kept coming back to it. She was most helpful in pointing out why I keep doing that... I want to avoid this ever happening to me in the future. I want to avoid another relationship like this. I don't want to live status quo or be someone's roommate. I want more from my relationship. I am so terrified that I don't have the power to change myself and this will happen again.
Her reassurance that I have and will continue to change myself was there just when I needed it. She is right, I have come a long way from the person who first entered her office saying 'it was all my fault'. I know now how very untrue that was and how I was selling myself short. My self-esteem had taken a real hit in the last 3 years.
She taught me to be kinder to myself. It is ok to circle back and have these feelings but she gently reminded me that the reason I do that is to protect myself from never letting this happen again... And I do this because of the big 'C' of course: control. I think after not hearing from him or his L after our response of putting this off until Jan, I felt another loss of control and a relapse.
I can control me. I can not control him.
I journal this now so that I can come back and read it again and again. I also document it because perhaps others are struggling with this and her words will ring true for them too.
I suspect there are many on this board like me that need to be kinder to themselves.
Oh and to top off not feeling in control...
I turned the corner and almost ran smack-dab into suspected OW. I forced a smile and she said 'excuse me' and trailed off when she realized it was me. Much different interaction that she and I used to have. We used to be quite friendly with each other.
Then... one of H's technicians comes and asks where he is... I thought FOR SURE she knew. I played it off best I could and told her he doesn't tell me anything these days and switched the subject. She works day in and day out with the two of them, ugh!
I guess I should look at this as having control however. I could open my mouth at any time and expose them if I wanted to. Unfortunately, I can't do it without making myself look bad... besides, I don't even know if they are for sure together or she was just a play thing. Maybe there is another...
The control issue is tough, and I really do see a link in myself with anxiety. The more out of control I feel, the more anxious I get.
I am finding that a nice glass of wine is doin' the trick for tonight.
Evolve - sounds like you are doing great. Trust me, you have a lot to be proud of. You have seen the light and grasped the reality of things much quicker than the majority. I am envious!
Thanks GW. Why doesn't it FEEL like I am doing great? I still haven't been able to concentrate on my work. The projects and deadlines coming up continue to pile. Daily I feel like going back to my L and asking him to just get this done with so I at least know one way or the other how this will all turn out. I know I need patience. I know I need to have faith that what is supposed to happen will... One foot in front of the other.
Envy? I will try to see where you are coming from... That is a tough pill to swallow!
I think I need to go back and read my post on being kinder to myself
Glad I documented it!
It doesn't FEEL like it is great because you are in limbo land and that never is a good place to be. You have to decided for yourself how long you will stay in limbo. Some try to advise you just be done with it and move on and make them feel the loss. There is merit in that, but you have to be in a place where you are willing to do it and willing to do it for the right reasons.
In the meantime, continue to DB. I wish I had a magic formula on how to concentrate on work. But I never cracked that code. Some days were better than others for me, so when you are having a good day, make it productive.
Baby steps...
The only thing that I have found to help with concentrating at work is to listen to soothing music and practice "thought stopping". It doesn't save me on the worst days, but it helps most of the time.
Infidelity seems so rampant. I am losing faith in ever having a faithful marriage in the future.
I read somewhere that 1 in 5 couples have experienced infidelity. I think this seems like an underestimate now.
Limbo land SUCKS.
I read it was closer to 40%. My personal R experience has been 100% though. This is going to be the end of that for me though. Clearly I have been doing something wrong. Won't start a new relationship without figuring out what it is.
How are you doing? How was the weekend?
Infidelity seems so rampant. I am losing faith in ever having a faithful marriage in the future.
Sad but true but don't lose faith. 6 months ago you would have had faith, right? So don't let one wayward change your positive views on life
Hi GW,
The weekend was fine. Had to work and it was a bit busy so that helps.
Still absolutely no word from H on a response to my L's letter. So I guess we are on hold until after Jan.1. We have not spoken now for about 3 weeks.
My neighbor called on Friday to tell me she was in her car leaving her house around 10 AM and he was coming home and had a woman in the car with him. She described her as having very dark hair, much different than the OW I suspect. She also said that he saw her (the neighbor) and neither smiled/waved.
At first it didn't bother me, I could potentially explain away who it was but then it started to bother me more. Not like it would have before however. I find myself caring less and less about what he is doing. I was even able to have a good day yesterday.
I still find it a bit maddening that he didn't respond at all to the L letter.
Thanks for checking in.
He doesn't know how to respond to the letter. You have shocked him with your changes. It has not snapped him out of his fantasy land but instead made him dig his heals in even harder. Nothing that can be done about this...tells you a lot though doesn't it
I don't know!!! What does it tell me???
I get a little mad because I am worried he feels 'let off the hook' for a while.
If it were me, it would tell me one of two things...
Either what you are doing isn't working or...
He doesn't deserve to be with you if he is going to act like that...
There could be other things, I don't know...you know him better than any of the rest of us
I do know him... he is one stubborn SOB!
I suspect he feels relieved that he doesn't have to do anything for another couple of months but live his fantasy life... yet if anyone asks, he filed for D so he can do whatever he wants.
Little do they know that I had to actually push him to even get that done.
I am contemplating starting the D process after my seminar on Dec. 3rd instead of waiting until Jan. Will see how I feel after my seminar and what transpires between now and then.
All the waiting and watching can really wear you down. I know I'm feeling it. I don't want to do the divorce for my H, but part of me wants to just grab it and "get it done right."
Ya' think that is me just being controlling? H did have that on his list of complaints.
I didn't even get a list. Just a 'we can't be happy together anymore'.
Yes, I feel worn down.
I feel very lonely right now.
I feel hopeless.
I feel angry.
At times I still feel disbelief.
I KNOW he does not deserve to be with me, especially this alien. It is just so hard to let go of all of the hopes and dreams I had for our future. It is hard to believe after all we went through to be together, this is how it ends.
I'm so sorry
I know this sucks
This period you are going through is natural, we all go through it and many times
You have put a lot of energy and effort into things lately and still see nothing from your H and you don't understand why/how...and I've got nothing to offer...to this day I don't understand how my W was willing to throw it all away and as you have seen, still might...still dealing with all this crap myself
Worn down is natural. The best way to get past worn down is not to let the situation consume you. I've got no secrets to offer there...it is one of my many weaknesses. But to get past worn down, you have to detach more and not let the situation drive your life
Lonely...you know what to do there...friends, family, activities
Anger...its natural, and I personally don't think its a bad thing...so let yourself feel that
Disbelief...I'm with you...
Hang in there, you are due for another really good day
Thanks for responding GW.
I have felt a little ambushed by my feelings the past 24 hours. I had been doing a pretty decent job of detaching and then attachment just sneaked up on me. I know I will be ok by my self. No family around here.
Friends have been somewhat hard to come by with my work schedule. Everyone I know works at the hospital and on the days I don't work... I find it really hard to cultivate friendships outside of that place. I guess as I write this, I realize that is just what I need to do. I am also afraid of getting attached to people that I will leave by next Oct. I have always become overly attached to my friends... another area to work on.
I think my feelings came from a couple of sources: I didn't run yesterday when I should have, nor today yet and I have been eating more carbs than usual... they make me cranky and emotional. I need to eat better. Plus, I was on day 5 of my work schedule and it had been very busy. I work with people in emotional crisis all the time. It gets very tiring.
I think I will just lie in bed and watch a movie today. Then go for a run. I plan to go to a BB game tonight with a friend so that should be fun. I don't really care about college BB but at least it is a chance to dress up, feel good about myself and get out of the apt.
I certainly understand. Attachment and then anxiety snuck up on me today and I am having an incredibly hard time shaking it. And I understand the work situation and friends outside work as you described...yep, me too.
Hope things get better soon
Me too. I hope things get better for you too.
I really can only laugh at this point.
My thoughts are crazy and all over the f***ing map!!! The more threads I read, the more I realize how natural and normal this is... I need to stop beating myself up for this!!!
NOW I feel like, WTF? He is really f**ed up, I can do this and wait it out a bit. He is not contesting the delay in D for one reason or another... does it matter what that is? As MWD says, there is always a part of them that doesn't want to be D'd. I will do my very best not to get my hopes up above 5% chance (that is my personal limit
) and try to remember that piece of advice. What is a couple of months in the grand scheme of things. I need to continue to get healthy and concentrate on my work. It is way better to be single doing what I am doing than in a R. If I can just focus on work, I will be so much better off and can finish my program successfully.
Sorry I am so redundant. Just needed to journal again. Going to do my best to have an awesome time tonight and just enjoy being with friends.
I need to post something important.
I had a small emotional breakdown today during my swimming lesson. The person teaching me is a coworker that didn't know about H and me. She knew something in me had changed and that I was 'different'. After I told her she said the same thing everyone else that knows has said..."you are handling it really well, you wouldn't even know" that I was going through what I am going through. Which then she added, except that I am wasting away
This was a bit of an over exaggeration and my weight has stabilized for the past few weeks.
I think I need to be proud of myself though for my 'acting as if'. I really make an effort to smile and say hi to more and more people. (H seems to be doing the opposite, people are noticing his scarcity around work... but, his problem, he can deal with it.) It makes me feel so much more confident and comfortable at work.
Needed to take notice of the baby steps... in ME.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I am all over the board too! Just wanted to tell you that I can relate.
Ok, just trying to sort out some stuff in my head.
About 3 weeks of no contact. Have seen him out of the corner of my eye looking for me and walking by. Saw him in the hallway when I was walking with a client and smiled. He immediately looked down and walked by. Seemed like a very guilty look not one of punishment.
He received the letter from my L saying to delay this til Jan. He was likely surprised who my L was as well as that I even did that since he had told me already that I could have as much time as I wanted. I think he panicked and filed after I told him to go ahead and do it, that I had a lawyer. He called and told me that I should have told him I have a L and that he 'doesn't have anything to hide' which I think is that part that really drove him to go file... that he figured I was catching on.
Essentially NC has been hard and good... but, now I feel like I am further from my goals than ever before. Now I think there is so much tension between us that it is palpable and I don't know if I should try to diffuse it. I don't want to do anything that would look like pursuing. Another thing that adds to this is that the last couple of times he came to talk to me I was pleasant but distracted... wanted him to see me dropping the rope. A little worried it came across as rude, made him feel unimportant (which I have been guilty of in the M). It is such a fine line of listening and validating without appearing too interested/pursuing.
He still hasn't told people at work.
Just not sure if I should continue with what I am doing or I should do something different. I really don't think anything I do is going to make a huge difference but I KNOW he will not be coming to check out any picnic I am having if he senses I am angry/going to confront etc.
Maybe I just need patience and continue with NC.
Thoughts on ways to proceed?
I'm going to ask a wise friend to pop in and give you some female insight...someone who has been there/done that...
Hi hun,
GW gave me a shout that youre struggling with NC! OMG its so hard isnt it.. But it sounds like its paying off for you.
I NC'd my H for about six weeks before his nose got the better of him lol. It can be used as one of the biggest 180's ever.. I was a serial panicker so for me to disappear off radar and also my S(22) obviously telling him I was fine, got him wondering what the heck had happened to me.
Ive copied my first thread link here
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...833#Post1827833Have a bit of a read and I will try and read through yours and get up to date. I am in the uk so not sure whether Im ahead or behind you so dont panic if I dont reply straight away I will get back to you when I can, and when GW's not bending my ear (only joking GW)!
This is the hardest thing you will ever do but boy regardless of whether you succeed in getting your H back you will grow into the woman you were meant to be as a bonus!
Take care
Rabbit x
Thanks rabbit, will give your sitch a read now...
Just catching up. Looks like you are doing great. I have started to realize that untill you REALLY start to detach, this is some of the hardest work you will ever do.
I have been short on advice lately. Just trying to get things figured out right now.
here is a link I keep going back to. I love it. It is on choosing joy. Hope it helps.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/choose_joy-positive-mental-attitude.html
BTW, if you need a real pick-me-up, go get "Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog" and watch it. It made me laugh till my sides hurt.
Hi Evolve
Managed to read through your last two threads.. Hope youre ok and not died of boredom reading my life history lol!
What have been your 180's, and are they all for you or have you managed to find ones that would benefit both you and be a big change H would see..
My biggest one was panicking, I was attrocious at it, and a big control freak to boot.. stopping that certainly helped me but was a big 180 H noticed.
Its only 6pm here in the Uk so will pop back in later (())
Hi Rabbit, thank you for dropping back in. I am almost through your sitch. Will have to admit I feel a bit hopeless in my situation after reading your story...
My 180s
Do things other than the residency... have a life
- bought a motorcycle, something he and I always have enjoyed, (made him very interested but didn't pull him out of the fog)
- started going to church, had really let go of God several years ago, have really accepted Him back into my life for me... plus, H often gave me a little nudge about not believing in God
- reconnected with my family... something I greatly needed to do
- exercising consistently... always have been inconsistent with this, now in the best shape of my life
- in Sept I gave a couple of talks and rocked them, public speaking was a challenge and I was a wreck in the past, taking it out on him... he noted the change and said it was like I was a 'different person'
- dress better at work because I fell better about me... since he hasn't/won't tell anyone at work, it gets back to him to a degree even if he doesn't see me in the hospital
- smile more and am more outgoing everywhere, not just at work
Ok, that is all I can think of right now. I am at work and will add more as they come to me.
I really appreciate your input, sorry for all the emotional crap you had to wade through reading my thread!!
Come on Evolve your not hopeless, this whole thing grinds us down.. Its the hardest thing ever! You have been NC for about fourish weeks and believe me that is the hard part, the bit where you want to crack and make contact, and also it starts to hit home at this point!
YOu have made some fab starts there for yourself, bit envious of the motorbike, I have one of sorts except she is 16hh high and furry, but believe me she can hit the escalerator pedal (hoofs) and gallop into the sunset too!
Hang in there you can do this, what ever this turns out to be! Ask any questions you want, even if you think they are daft I dont bite ask GW? You take care hun and chat soon!
Thanks for the encouragement. I don't want to feel hopeless, but it is my defense against feeling too hopeful. I also have outside influences encouraging me to move on... I'm trying to remember MWD's words regarding this though...
I am just as envious of your girl, but I do love my bike:)
You will have lots of outside influences, in the worlds mind once we are officially dumped we should just get our own back, fleece them, take them to the cleaners and revel in all the glory!
Just one small hitch, most of us still love the silly beggars, and arnt ready to call it a day, and why should we, we put all our energy into our marriages, and most of us on here respect the fact we said "till death us do part" and the only reason we'd want to change them is to murder the silly H/W ourselves lol!
I even had my own S (22) telling me that his dad was gone and wasnt going to change his mind and move on! Ironically later on he managed to tell his father that he should "just get some sense and go back to mum" lol!
Its not a crime to stand for your marriage, as long as you are standing for yourself first and the standing for your marriage happens as a bonus!
Chin up hope you do an interesting job and it keeps your mind off things x
Ok Rabbit, I have completed your lovely story! Is there another thread of yours to read?
I can't believe what a rockstar you are... I am a huge worrier for sure and this has been the worst thing ever. My mind races like crazy and I can't focus at work. I can't believe how together you were and focused. You did GAL your butt off.
I am afraid in my sitch that my H may believe he is in love and nothing I can do will change that. He is a hopeless romantic and I fear that he has fallen again and it will take forever for him to see the light. I can see in retrospect that he has been 'gone' from our marriage for many months, probably at least April, maybe even January. I have no doubt that he would crack if he went to counseling with me but he keeps putting me off. Then I think I screwed up when I told him to just 'go file'. I challenged him to do it, that was probably not the best move... who knows really? He said from the beginning he wanted a D. When he makes his mind up he wants things done yesterday.
The thing I do have going for me in my sitch is that he can't get completely away from my changes. He may avoid me in the halls but I know people talk to him about me just as they talk about me to him. You know, just small things like 'I saw your wife at blah, blah, she looked really nice etc.' Most recently I colored my dogs hair. He is a chinese crested so mostly hairless... I colored the hair on his head purple... everyone assumed he did it since he is the jokester- I am sure this got back to him in some form. (Sorry if anyone sees this as animal cruelty... he loved it I promise :-)
So, after some NC, I feel a bit re-energized in the 'I can do this' but don't know where the hell to go from here! In addition, I fight with the 'what the heck am I thinking, he is obviously a huge coward, can't tell me or anyone else the truth, why would I want him'? Unfortunately, he has a lot of darn good qualities too... I have to admit.
So about the tension, lack of communication, NC... keep it up or do something different??
Rabbit- your thread reminded me of something too. I think it was Coach that said he had never seen a WAS lead out of limboland.
When I was working in his vicinity and we were seeing each other almost daily (in Oct), he was definitely noticing my changes and was starting to follow. He saw me drinking a protein shake and then drew me in to converse to let me know he was going to the gym again. There were a few other small signs like this.
Now however, I have taken a few steps back I feel. I have gotten the D put on hold citing my obligations at work and the holidays. He didn't dispute one bit. But my time at DBing is limited. This I know. So, any advice you have I will listen.
Still checking in on you. You are in good hands with LR. I've got nothing to give today, I'm sorry. I just don't have enough in me right now.
I know Gdub. I am following you. Praying.
Hey, Evolve. How you doing?
Hi E
How are you doing?
My next thread was in piecing but it isnt long as it got a bit quiet in that forum!
How was work this weekend, not too hard I hope, I played with the furry motorbike then went out with the girls, drank a bit too much and still a little worse for wear unfortunately.
Back to work now, absolutely mental week, applying for new job, and conference for two days!
Anyway check in and let me know how you are?
Yes how are you doing? It seems a few posts that were in this thread got deleted ...
Yep, stuff got deleted. Was trying to reach others elsewhere and not sure how to do it...
Doing OK. I am in FL on vacation for the week with family. A first in a very long time. H's family always took precedence as did my work schedule but they have been more flexible with me knowing what is going on...
Haven't heard from the squirrel in weeks now. Know of his existence in the building when someone will make a comment that they were just talking to him etc.
Last time I was here in FL (April), he was with me. I keep thinking about all of the negative comments he was making, looking for reasons to leave our M (in retrospect). They were odd comments, picking at nearly anything. I remember thinking how depressed he must have been at the time. Now I have more clarity, I think, as to why he was saying those things. He kept making excuses to leave and trying to get me to hate him.
There is absolutely no communication at this time. I feel my chances of getting him to do the weekend counseling EVER at this point are dismal to none. I am afraid the tension is so high that his 'not yet' reply now means never. I wish I knew what to do to try to diffuse the tension without looking like I am pursuing him. He will be working in the clinic next week when I am back. It's not a guarantee I will run into him but it is likely. He still is not parking in the same area anymore.
The DBing was working to a degree in Sept, some of Oct but now it has taken a major backslide.
I feel your pain and frustration...
I wish I had some advice to make it better
Hang in there
The DBing was working to a degree in Sept, some of Oct but now it has taken a major backslide.
What are you doing differently?
Holiday in FL sounds nice, Im horribly jealous, my work requires me to do long stints of work and only have my holidays in large blocks.. I get a week of at Xmas next then four weeks in Feb/March.
Must update all my sigs/notes as they are getting out of date..
Found the niece/nephew's Halloween candy stash before bed... now I can't sleep. I've had enough coffee and sugar today for a week.
On the up side, it has given me time to think about my own question of what to do. I (obviously!) have been getting frustrated with not knowing what to do and not having anyone just tell me. I know exactly what I need to do. I need to continue NC. It is only a week away before I will likely run into him in the hospital. I will continue my 'as if' attitude. 'Hi, friendly neighbor'. Me being friendly and nonchalant is the only way I am going to get him to consider granting my last request...it is also the way I hooked him in the beginning (remembering LR's words...).
I feel better having a 'plan'. The holidays suck for me and I can't imagine they are much better for him.
LR- seriously? 4 weeks in feb/march? This is why I MUST find a job outside of this country!!!
Yes four weeks off in Feb/Mar and then I get mid July off till beginning of Oct.. I am currently applying for my boss's job and he is supposed to work all year, but Im hoping his current boss will see the benefit of not having to pay someone to sit around for long periods of time not doing anything.. Its all very stressful at work, thankfully H is being fantastic support, well he should be I only had to go back to work because he left me and now I go because I dont trust him to stay yet!
Did you find the DB page on the Alt? Lots of useful tips on there to read..
Will keep popping in on you!
I did find the DB page. Looking for the useful tips, found a few.
Thanks for keeping on checking in. Considering your comment about your H and staying, do you have a new thread?
What kind of work are you doing?
So, since you feel better having a plan...
Do you have one?
Haha, put that way, it doesn't sound like much... except to do what I am doing. NC for now, will likely run into him next week when we are both there. Act 'as if', remain friendly, still hoping to get him to a wkd session, no matter the outcome of our M. I need it for me. If the D gets busted, great, if not, so be it.
Your situation and others makes me realize the uphill battle all the way. Would I like the chance at it? Sure. I have never done things the easy way in my life. But... maybe God has a different plan for me...
GW, I know you are no longer piecing and maybe I am way off but, considering all of the knowledge you have gotten being here and your W being far behind in that category... any way to consider a wkd for you two? I have found at least 3 different programs I am interested in... Each one having its pros and cons and likely to be more useful in different situations. Just wonder if her hearing others that have been in her position and got out... if that would be a wake up call for her?
I know it would have helped me way back when I was feeling like I wanted to leave. It is person dependent tho I suppose...
Please share with me those 3 programs.
The shame was she had agreed to Retrouville...and we never made...were planning on going in Jan.
Where she is today, I don't think she would agree to a weekend, but if things change at all, it would be good to have those things in my arsenal. She cannot think logically at the moment. She is caught in the loop. I have feelings for OM, which prevents me from having feelings for H. If I get rid of OM, feelings for H will come back. But what if I can't get OM out of my system, then I will be miserable. I know that things with OM might not even work out and I was happy with H, but if I can't stop thinking about OM, how can i continue to be happy.
That is her brain. It would drive me crazy too!
For me the 3 options:
Retrou... ain't gonna happen right now for me. Need a willing partner and no OP.
Michelle (CO)... for me, she offers the option of clarity and closure that might get H there, he cares about me and wants me to be happy. Might want to help 'fix' me. For you, maybe the 'we have tried everything else, what do we have to lose?' would be a better angle.
Crucible intensive therapy, Dr. David Schnarch (CO)... he is the author of passionate marriage. If you have read the book, it is amazing. This guy gets to the point. The website is a little too lovey-dovey and pro-marriage for my H to consider in my sitch. I instead have e-mailed back and forth with his wife, also a marriage/relationship therapist. Phone calls to both this place and Michelle have helped in telling me what to say to get the S there. The e-mail I sent explained that H wants a D, I want clarity/closure how can I express to him that he will not be pressured... she wrote back a great e-mail, that I am pretty sure H read 'cuz I think he was monitoring my e-mails at the time.
I figure, they deal with this crap all the time and worse... others that have acted on EA to PA and seemingly moved on with this new partner. I am an expert at what I do. I think they are experts at what they do (have read as much as I can about them, feel they are my best bet besides my changes etc.). Don't want to give my M over to a stranger who could make it or break it, yet... does it get more broken than my situation right now???
I know there are other programs too, maybe others can chime in. If someone can really help her understand the root of her feelings and help you understand her needs better... maybe this is what you both need?
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1892442#Post1892442Here you go hun, the next bit in the story, gosh I feel like J.K Rowling lol!
Im away for a couple of days now for a works conference so will be back to say hi on friday evening uk time.
Honestly I know you think NC isnt doing much but it really is a powerful impact on the WAS. As much as they like to pretend they dont need you or remember you, even if its out of habit they will want to know what you are doing?
In regard to me saying about H saying, you never can be blase enough to believe that they will never do it again, you have been proved wrong once, you have lost the innocense of thinking that you would be together forever! Its hard and beleive me it hurts like hell to have lost that, although at least now H realises this and does do his best to work on giving me some security, but it is a long slow growing process..
Take care hun..
Thanks Rabbit. I appreciate you sharing your experience and advice. Have a good time at your conference.
Hey E, hopr you are having a good time with all those kid-os arround!
I think you are being really strong to go dark. I have D3, so can't pull a dark very well. I have been cutting way back on the contact though. Feels like we have gone backwards, but there are odd little things that pop up.
My pull back right now is just for my own sanity. Have to work through a lot of stuff right now and I just don't have energy for him.
Stay strong. Wether this helps your M or not, you are sounding stronger.
Gotta go. Got D3 home late from our Disney on Ice night. Had a blast and counted myself lucky tonight. Got to be with my D and her cousins & SIL-1. Realized I still have my family. I am very lucky.
Hope you have a happy Thanksgiving!
Having a great time with the kids... but having to write the damn seminar too!
Today I am thankful that I no longer identify with roadkill as I did 3 months ago...
NC is making me stronger...suspect it is easier on me than H actually. He was always the gardener, the one to call and does not like anyone to think badly of him. I'm sure he knows I am with my family. He loved being with my brother and the kids. I am sure he is wondering about the type of conversation going on without him here... but that's mind reading so I will stop.
Ok, going outside to enjoy the Florid a sun, put my feet in the pool and write this damn thing!!!
Good luck with that seminar and enjoy the pool too!
Ugh... as the day wears on, NC is very, very hard.
Why don't you write here what you would say if you contacted.
Holidays are tough.
Lots of memories....
We'll listen.
I would just wish him a Happy T-day. I would thank him for all the T-day meals he prepared (he was the cook in the house). I would tease him again about the first T-day he prepared where the turkey wasn't done and he thought creamed corn could be made by putting it in the blender (not palatable-don't try this at home).
We had absolutely nothing to our names at the time. We ate in the basement of a house that he was renting. It was dark, damp and disgusting... but, he made-do by using what little we had to make a huge meal. It was just the two of us.
ugh, memories are bittersweet...
Detach, detach, detach, detach, detach, detach, detach, detach...
It is only attachment kicking in....
Detach, detach, detach, detach, detach, detach, detach, detach.
At least you know that
AND
Memories are good.
They are who we are.
Have a happy day E
AND... I have had wine.
You have a great T-day too Truegritter!
Evolve-
I am struggling with the memories too, being this is the first Thanksgiving separated, and my time line is somewhat similar to yours. But you know what? I am thankful that I made it through, and though there were many sad moments during the day it was not as terrible as i thought. Two weeks ago i thought the holidays would kill me. But I traveled on a plane, by myself with a two year old, and ended up having a decent time. We are getting stronger evolve, and where we are gaining strength from our experiences, they will ultimately only be able to live with regret from theirs. B/c at some point I truly believe, whether they want us back or not, they will realize how terrible they treated us. And the more we take the high road, the less likely they are to blame us for their mistake and the more likely they are to realize how poorly they have behaved.
Sorry for my rambling post- I have had some wine too!!
Thanks L&C,
I think you are right. I believe in karma...they will get theirs.
Evolve
I agree with the others. Memories are not bad. They might hurt, but they are YOURS and you don't let the wayward take those away. I too struggle with memories. But sometimes its ok to feel some hurt for you instead of the H.
Hang in there
I think you are probably doing better than me these days!
GW
I've had some good advice
TG fab idea writing it our here :hail:
Evolve hope youre enjoying your time away despite the seminar writing (())
Hey Zen, thanks, I appreciated it.
Journaling:
This evening I feel peace. I really will be OK either way this goes. I am so thankful this happened before we got pregnant (were thinking about March '11). If God doesn't give us more than we can handle, maybe He knew I might not be able to handle that. Because, I truly believe, this was going to happen no matter what. My H looks for happiness outside of himself. I can't fix him. Maybe he will one day fix himself, but I suspect that won't happen until his next A. Maybe not even then. I dodged a bullet in some ways. I feel thankful... that sounds odd, huh?
I actually feel happiness right now. For some reason, earlier I was again dwelling and regretting times I yelled at him or was rude. But you know what, I am not perfect. I will never be perfect. I hope to become a better person with a better focus on my R and what is important and what is less important (work). I have that in me and I deserve someone that can have faith in me to make the changes I need to make.
One thing I know I must be careful of in the future: choosing a partner that is sooo needy. What is it about me that chooses someone like that? I think the answer is obvious and this is where my real work begins.
Gdub-
I am posting this on my site as I don't want to take the chance of offending anyone on yours.
This is a crazy hour for me to be thinking about your sitch but I had to go in for an emergency and felt compelled to write this. Take it for whatever you want, I don't need a response.
You are on the verge of making a huge decision in your life, that much we can all agree on. You have a W willing to do at least something in the way of working things out...she hasn't completely closed the door on things anyway. These boards are great to have so many people to support us. I, for one, have found much of the advice to be really helpful. However, this is advice from non-experts (unless I am mistaken...) no matter how good it may seem. No matter who it is from. No matter how similar their situation has seemed to your own.
You have come so incredibly far on your own it is amazing. It is amazing what you have accomplished and for as long as you have... you are going to heaven. But, when do you finally unload some of this burden? When is it time to get expert advice from someone trained specifically in helping couples get through this and worse.
I totally get the fear of seeing someone that could make things worse. I get that. As a professional in a health profession I can attest that we are not created equal. There are plenty of other doctors in the hospital that I would not allow to touch my patients. Make a wise choice to the best of your ability.
I found it very hard to listen at all objectively to my H and not factor in what I know about him, what he knows about me etc. over even small things sometimes on a day-to-day basis. With something this large, I think an unbiased 3rd party could do wonders to help sort things out. I think most of our marriages ended up in the state they are in by things that are left unsaid, but maybe even more importantly, by unsettled things that we haven't even identified within ourselves, or they themselves. We can listen to them and try to change the things they have complained about. I think we can do 180's forever. But really, until we understand why we/they complain about the things we/they do, we'll never be able to solve problems permanently.
I feel like you are in a unique (on these boards anyway) position to make a major, hopefully permanent, step forward. At the very least, you can say you tried everything if it fails.
You can lead the horse to the trough...
which you have done VERY effectively against crazy odds I might add ...just maybe an expert can help you BOTH see how nourishing and necessary the water is
This evening I feel peace. I really will be OK either way this goes.
Good to hear it E! It seems to come and go for me, but lately that feeling seems to come more than go.
I am so thankful this happened before we got pregnant (were thinking about March '11).
While I wouldn't trade my D to have H here with me, I remember my H for a long time refusing to be a father because he "was too selfish." His words btw, not mine. I am thankful for my baby, but I should have listened more carefully to his words back then.
Evolve
Thank you so much for that. I do want to respond to you, cause that was an honest/heartfelt, not something you read in a book or repeated cause you learned it here.
I think you are right, but that's all I want to say right now. I want to digest this, I'll print it out, read it. I got a lot on my mind right now.
More later..
Evolve
I read your post about 5 times.
New plan: I am going to find a good therapist and go myself, alone, at least the first time. I think that (a) I need it and (b) get a pro's opinion on getting my W there and (c) hopefully some no kidding MC in the future.
I am 90% certain I am going to try to hang on thru the holidays...part of the reason why I need the IC too...need a new source of strength as this drags on and I don't want to go into a funk.
Sounds like a great idea. I have found that calling and speaking with possible MC has been VERY helpful with (b). In particular, Virginia at DB... advice could be applied to other MCs as well.
I think if I were to keep following her advice, I would eventually get H there... today not really feeling like I want to as much. I have promised myself to at least try before D is final no matter how I feel about him at the time.
Today is the first day I have seen H. He has resumed his regular haircut and seemed to need to stay in my area much more than necessary today. We exchanged friendly hellos and kept walking. Know what I felt?... nothing. No butterflies. No yearning for him to come talk to me. I even kind of avoided him, staying in a different part of the critical care unit. He never spends that much time in CCU. Don't know what is going through his mind and cared very little... this I can finally say with sincerity.
New plan: I am going to find a good therapist and go myself, alone, at least the first time.
Good plan! Early on in my sitch I was advised by my SIL to find a therapist, not to heal my R, but just to survive this. She has had a few friends go through similar problems. My IC has been the one person I could spill my guts to without fear of it getting back to my H. I recomend IC above MC in sitchs like ours when the spouse isn't interested in saving the marriage.
Take the time to find a good one who is pro-marriage. MWD's advice in Divorce Remedy is great for looking for a IC or an MC who will work individually with you.
Also, just my biased opinion, I think male IS's are better at DB approaches. Just my $.02 though.
E -
Sounds like your trip away from your H gave you the space you needed to detach. Sounds like your H is looking for some reasurance that you are still chasing him, but you are keeping a healthy distance from him.
Glad you are feeling better and not letting him upset you.
E -
That is an amazing update, that you can look yourself in the mirror and know that. Guess what...I bet at some point here pretty soon, your H will see it too, cause remember he knows you and will sense it. And one way or the other that is good.
Whatever you are doing, keep it up, cause it sure sounds healthy, peaceful, and strong.
You are doing great my friend.
GW
Things are going pretty well right now- for me anyway. But... I have to admit I have not been taking care of myself as well as I should/need to be... I am writing it here to be accountable.
I have not run in 1 week and only ran 1 time last week. Plan to run tomorrow no question.
Eating habits have faltered some too... need to get to the grocery store and resume healthy eating.
I will give myself a little of a break. The seminar will be done on Friday and everything is centered around getting that put together right now. A patient was in surgery last night so I was stuck and didn't get home til 5 am...
Friday will be here soon and it is my last seminar. I can't wait to have that over!!!!
No squirrel sitings today.
Must be something in the air...
I just ran for the first time in about a week.
Pumpkin cheesecake every day...
Get some sleep...that always helps too
Sticking my beak in to say hi!
Im with you although I really do lots of riding, its my only exercise and I need to do even more.. the weight is still piling on from when H came home, about a stone and a half which I'd dearly like to get off again!
Hope you are well?
I am well, thanks for asking. How much exactly is "a stone and a half"???
I am still weighing less than ever before but have stopped losing at this point. Still a little underweight I would say. Have gained back a half a kg.
Very tired, about to go home and take a nap after last night's emergency.
Thanks for stopping by. It is good to hear from you! Read your second sitch, do you have a current one?
Ahh, but the best part. Even though I would say I am a little underweight... between dressing better and being in better shape, lots and lots of compliments at work. Have to think one or two makes its way back to H.
Even better?... would keep doing it even if he doesn't care or notice. I feel great and I do my best to walk the halls with a smile on my face at all times... fake it till you make it really works
The double-takes by my colleagues and the staff... priceless...
Don't change that attitude! you will enjoy this one, W says to me today, in all seriousness and kind of pissed, "I create stress in our M and you lose weight and I gain weight!"
Muuuaaaaahahah... LOVE IT!
So, as usual... feeling really good is followed by getting a little punch in the gut.
As I was leaving the hospital tonight, I ran into a student that H and I know somewhat. Her and her boyfriend had been out to the house a couple of times in the past. She asked me if I was going to FL too. After I recovered a little, realizing H must be going there, I felt lonely and crappy. I knew he was going to do a locum in Jan, I don't remember hearing about one this month or if that is what he is going for...
I told her that I wasn't and she said that was too bad, her and her boyfriend were leaving this weekend to go there. I didn't ask any further questions. Just acted as if...
Besides this past year, traveling or going away was the time we usually really connected.
I feel sad mostly because I keep getting this image in my head of him feeling only complete happiness. Being so relieved that he is away from me. I try to remember the words of Sandi2 in her sitch when she says that the WAS hurts too. Logically it seems true, it just doesn't feel like it is true right now.
Interestingly, I just checked my bank account and guess who decided to deposit money this month? According to him, he was going to deposit 500 last month (down from the 1000 he originally planned) less because of the L he needed to hire... clearly blaming me for this as the internet was good enough for him.
Then, nothing. No money. Suspect he was trying to get me to react/punish me for getting a L without telling him (see prior posts!).
Today, 500. Guilt? For sure. Still trying to see if I am hanging around? Maybe. Whether I will take the opportunity to contact him and thank him? Not a chance.
I know, I know, stop the mind reading. Seriously though, is anyone ever successful at that!!! Despite my feeling that the real answer is 'no' since I am pretty sure everyone on here is human... I will continue to try to refrain.
Supporting me/his family is VERY important to him. His father supports his entire family including H's aunts, uncles. This is H's role model and what he strives for (not a spoken goal but clearly important to him). Part of me wants to not take the money. I feel like he is trying to control me to a degree, trying to make me dependent on him. It is his pattern. He has told me he knows I don't care about the money but it is important to him. I hate that he gets to still try to be the 'good guy' by giving me money.
I think no reaction is the only way and forget whatever his motives may be... thanking him would seem like pursuing to me, even though I hate to look thankless (I looked that way in the R in his eyes I am certain). Ugh. Whatever, IDK.
Why is guilt such a 'giving' emotion for these guys? I would say to keep quiet on the money. If HE mentions it, then a polite thank you would be appropriate. If he wants contact, he can do some work to get it.
And yes, on the mind reading. I still do it, despite my best efforts.
Mind Reading: you are looking at the professor in trying to analyze and mind read. I am terrible at avoiding it. In fact, I've attempted it so much one would think that I have it all figured out by now (don't of course).
Guilt is not necessarily a had thing. It means he still has feelings. And let the guilt eat at him a bit.
With what you have said about your H's need to take care of things...I too would keep quiet about it. He probably wants you to thank him to relieve some guilt and fill his needs...guess what, he isn't doing anything to try to fill yours and he should feel guilty...so I 100% agree with HFZ...if he brings it up a polite and sincere thank you is what you do.
What is a locum?
And remember, the bad days are not avoidable unfortunately. You are human. Minimize the downs and maximize the ups, that's all you can try to do
Thanks for the message GW. Locum is filling in temporarily at another location. I know he will be doing a week or two at a time in FL. Our long term plan was to probably move within a year to FL. It would be closer to his family, a much shorter flight to Brazil anyway.
It snowed a little yesterday... today he is back parking in our usual place.
More time spent in CCU again today with him feeling/demonstrating comfort by helping his butt to some counter space.
Walk by, looking good by the way
(Painted my nails RED, he hates this)... and still felt nothing.
I think he tried to get my attention as he walked by... I didn't look up, I was busy.
Don't have anything to add. Just stay strong E, you are doing great.
Well... today was interesting.
First, I gave my final seminar for my program and it was probably the best presentation I have ever given, receiving LOTS of praise and attention from faculty to students.
My favorite part of it all was that my mentor introduced me as 'one of the most productive residents we have ever had' and started listing several accomplishments here and nationally... and did I mention OW was there
Well suspected OW1 anyway, really suspect there is someone else but don't know who...
I don't think H was there... didn't see him but didn't look around because I didn't want to get nervous during the presentation. A lot of people there so I focused on the other side of the room.
Then, later in the day SIL found me (she is also a resident but in H's area). To this point I have seen her as a snake since OW1 and her are friends and I suspected she may be encouraging this. Today though, women's intuition told me otherwise. She needed to talk about changing her seminar date, I am in charge of this for all residents. She then used the time to talk a while telling me how good I look (this is the 2nd time hearing this from her during this whole DB experience) how good my presentation was and how she kept staring at me during the talk remarking to herself about my appearance/confidence.
We chatted a little while. Told her it is from running and getting in the best shape I have ever been in, considering running in a half marathon, learning to swim, focusing on the positive things that have come from this situation etc. Told her I think going through a situation like this changes you forever.
She told me that she wanted me to know she isn't taking sides, she likes us both, very heartfelt about it... gave her a big hug and she teared up. Told me she won't tell H anything we talked about (haha, yeah right! If she doesn't BIL prob will... not falling for that) and that her and H recently got into a fight. I told her I was sorry to hear that and refrained from asking why... women's intuition told me it may have something to do with her finally seeing through what is going on (maybe she didn't really see what H was up to...) and a culmination of work related frustrations.
Either way, I can see the DBing working on her...
OUTSTANDING NEWS! Great job. Look at yourself in the mirror and be proud. You are taking care of yourself and your life and look at the results. I need to take lessons from you!
W and I had another talk tonight that just went in circles again. She is sleeping in guest room tonight and I welcome the break at this point. Need to get her to see an IC if nothing else for her, her mind is a wreck and of course I still care.
You are a role model!
I am taking care of myself.
But, I don't have children to interfere with that and being separated greatly allows you to not be affected by their mood... not that I am suggesting you try it!
Isn't it so awful to watch them go through their inner turmoil but not be able to help them? That is the hardest part to me. Caring doesn't just stop.
I thought she was seeing an IC at one time? No?
Just ran into OW1? in the hallway. She isn't normally here on the weekend. Smiled, said Hi, kept walking, didn't wait for an answer... and didn't get one. *smile*
Just journaling...
When this all first happened, I truly thought my life was over, how would I go on, blah, blah, blah.
Today, I almost LOL at that thought. OMG, what emotions can do to you! Looking forward to my future, with or without H *HUGE SMILE*
HUge smile back at you! You deserve it!
To answer your question, no not really on the IC. W saw IC years and years ago about some non-marital issues, not at all relevant to any of what we are going through.
However, tonight she said to me how about you find that good C you said you could find and lets go from there and then thanked me for being patient with her.
This after a pretty hard day for me. I gave her a tone of space, she was still depressed and in her own world, we hardly spoke at all most of the day.
So, does that mean she is interested in a MC or IC? The 3 options I wrote about before (except Routerville) ain't cheap... but I can for sure tell you it's a lot cheaper than a D!
Can't help being a little worried if it is an IC she ends up going to... That feeling for me stems from the introduction in the DB book and reading about others that have been told a separation is a good thing. You know what I mean? It's such an awful feeling thinking that so many outside influences can affect our marriages.
Sorry about the rough day. How are the kids handling all of this? Good job on giving her space and patience. While my H doesn't know it, this is what I am giving him too. Maybe one day this gift will come back to us.
Their is a post from warriorshadow on Zen's thread. WS pointed out that while our situations suck, it's great to be the LBS. I wouldn't want to be the MLCer/WAS for anything...
Just talked with a mutual friend of mine and H's. He has known us during most of this residency and at times has given us both a kick in the butt as we have each complained to him about the other...
He is getting married next fall and has asked H to be his best man. He finds himself reconsidering this.
All along he has said this is strange, whatever is going on and now feels the same that obviously he is with someone. He no longer lives here and has been trying to communicate with H but almost never hears from him. He also said that last time he talked to him, he asked H about the soccer game and what he thought. H is from Brazil, friend is from Europe so they talked about soccer a lot in the past. He said H's response was what soccer game? Friend couldn't believe his response... said obviously he is incredibly preoccupied. We then talked about how crappy this is going to be for him as our profession is very small, it will follow him to any job he goes to.
I think the pressure is on the A at this point. Like I said before, H is a romantic and I am sure he is obsessed with her right now.
It would seem like I should be upset since hearing this sort of confirmation from another person used to upset me so much. Instead, I feel relief. Relief that I know this isn't about me. Sure I did some crappy stuff in the M, but nothing that gives one the excuse to do what he has done.
Going to continue NC. Do nothing to disturb La-la land... let the fantasy play out. I know my H, it is the only way for any sort of chance for him to see the light. He will be jarred back to reality soon enough. I have patience if nothing else... and I have my self-respect back. Even if H wanted to come back this minute, I know I would be genuine in saying, 'I would have to think about that'.
I just read about Power Packaging and it gave me a GREAT idea about talking to my H about counseling. I have essentially told myself that no matter how I feel about the D going forward next month, I will maintain wanting to go to divorce counseling... I can see how emotions can jack you up so if the opportunity to go does arise, I don't want to decline and regret it later.
From Keeping love Alive
"Take some advice from the world of advertising: know who your audience is and speak to their needs. Instad of making demands that fall on deaf ears, appeal to your partner's interests (instead of your own!) when you're trying to get him or her to change. If you do so, you'll be more likely to motivate your partner to doing things differently.
Think of something you would like your partner to do, but haven't figured out how to convince him or her to change yet. Make sure you completely understand your partner's point of view even if you don't entirely agree with it.
Explain why this point of view is so important to him/her.
Identify the specific behavioral change you'd like your partner to make, in action terms.
Experiment with ways of expressing to your partner how the change you are proposing fits with his or her point of view. In other words, describe how this change will be an advantage to your partner given his or her perspectivie on the situation.
Now that you know what you want to change and how your partner feels, the first thing you must do is acknowledge your partner's feelings. Then, explain how what you are requesting will actually be a means to your partner's desired ends.
I am reposting this here in case it gives anyone else ideas on another approach to getting their spouse to listen.
BTW, no worries. I don't bring this subject up with H. Just want to be prepared for the future. The approach I had used (two times) left me with a 'not yet'. Need to stop doing what isn't working right??
All I want is a chance at R, does R mean happily married forever? I no longer equate the two. Admittedly, the desire for a chance at R is dwindling with time.
Just swinging by to check in. It has been a busy weekend with a moderately sick kid. She will be ok, but just feeling yucky and I am tired.
Tried to post to you, but deleted it after reading it and realizing I wasn't saying anything coherent.
Going to get some sleep and will try and catch up tomorrow.
I like your power packaging idea, though I think I should just file it away for future reference. I'm still feeling 'dark' towards my H right now. Needing time and space to heal. I'm just atrting to get a look at him as he really is/was and at me too. MC would just confuse me further and give him something to resent and hide from.
Good idea for (hopefully) better times.
Journaling,
Just got back from my IC. It was great to see her again. After stating all of my fears about how this whole trauma will affect me in future relationships, she reminded me that I am the one getting healthy. I am the one looking inward. 'Health attracts health' were her words.
I am strongly thinking about going on a mission with the church I have been attending. Last week of June, a group of people go to an orphanage in Mexico, you raise your own money to go. What you get back from the experience seems priceless. I need something big to work toward, plan for. Just a little worried how I will do this and not freak out about taking a week off from studying for boards.
You sound like you are still doing very good. How much schooling do you have before it is all done and you are fully certified (or whatever the correct term is)?
Done in July. Not so much 'schooling' as teaching. No classrooms involved- thank God!
I will then be eligible for board certification. Will take the boards in September, most don't pass the first time. It costs about $1500 a shot... only offered once a year. I can still work without being boarded, but obviously it is advantageous not to have to take them again. It is months and months of studying besides the cost.
Worried that I can't live in limbo land as I need to concentrate on studying.
Just got my first e-mail from H in weeks. Wasn't even necessary. Haven't answered... he found my pool cue cover (billiards was a shared interest, one that brought us together). I only asked for this 3 months ago...
I would answer...but wait a few hours at least.
Thanks. I did answer, wanted to wait but because of the mailbox set up, he can see when I open anything from him. Waited a bit, thanked him for finding it and asked him if he could place all of my things that he finds in a specific area, was thinking about stopping over on Thurs or Fri to pick up the rest of my things, but would give him a heads up if/when I am able to make it over there... (the would occur while he is at work, wouldn't need to see him then)
Good job!
to answer your question, I live in the washington DC area
And thank you for the prayer, I won't lie, I feel like I need them
Got a bit of a snippy reply from H about coming to get my things. He told me I can come over whenever I want to get the rest. He seemed to get a bit defensive about putting things in one place. Wow, I didn't think I could have made my e-mail anymore benign but I guess he still found a way to take offense.
GW, FTR, what Lost said about you is absolutely true. You are very obviously an amazing person. You don't deserve to be anyone's second best. Neither do I. The only way I get through that part is realizing how messed up our S's are. I remember a text H sent me in the beginning saying that he feels like he is insane.
Thanks Evolve. Snippy reply to be expected unfortunately.
Didn't hurt my feelings at all. In fact, snippy reply = feelings as far as I am concerned. He doesn't want to have ANY feelings toward me.
Hi Evolve, sorry not been around, been in the grip of a crappy cold so not doing so well, caught up with you in the alt! Will be back to chat soon I promise!
Thanks Sandy, it puts a smile on my face to hear from you.
I remember a text H sent me in the beginning saying that he feels like he is insane.
lol!
That may be the most 'sane' thing you are going to hear from him in a while. Wish mine were that self aware.
Sorry you got snapped at. Unfortunately, there probably is no such thing as a resonable request in his world. You don't deserve it. Maybe he will see that someday.
You have made a lot of progress, BTW. You should be proud of how you are handling yourself
Ok guys, got notice from L of H wanting an adjournment. This is most likely due to his work in FL, not him reconsidering anything.
I don't know how to respond.
Buys me more time BUT,
if D is going to happen, it will then happen further into my studying for boards, not helpful for my concentration.
Another reason for him to delay... he can continue to hide from this at work. I leave in July, will be much easier for him then I would guess.
So, do you have to agree to that? Sounds like he is still not wanting to make a decision...learn from me...limbo land [censored]
Do you have to accept this change or can you just let him get on with it!
Try not to help him do anything legal any faster, let him do the work, its his choice after all!
Hi friends...
So, I contact my L to discuss this. Essentially he says it could be his L doing this (50% likely) bc she has things that are conflicting with this date. Or, it could be H (50%)...
I said I know that H has commitments in FL in Jan, maybe this could be the reason, but asked if he even needs to go to pretrial and he tells me 'no'. Neither of us do. So what is the hold-up? I told L not to respond until I have a chance to contact H to find out.
My L is freakin awesome BTW, as I have said before. He is not at all a creepy kind of guy, just FYI before I read the next part...
L says: "I know this may be a little strange coming from a L but I have been doing this 35 years. Often I can sit across the room and see why someone is getting divorced. In your case, it keeps bothering me trying to figure out why he wants to divorce you. I mean, what the f***, I mean what the heck is he thinking?"
I have been LMAO since he said that
Essentially, L told me that if they ask for an adjournment, they will get it. He said this judge won't think twice about it. And, he said it will probably be another month.
Ugh. I am torn. Yes I want to fight for my marriage but I don't want to fail my boards either. Limo land does effing suck!!!
So, as promised, I texted re: getting my things...
"Heading out to the house in about 1 hr. May take today and tomorrow. I think we should talk about the adjournment. Maybe coffee or something?"
H: "I am actually at the house sick. Didn't get anything together for you. sorry"
Me: "OK. I will stop tomorrow. No need to get anything together for me- just if you find random things (around the house). Hope you feel better.
No response. Nada. Zilch. Does he really think I am still coming and gonna hang out with him?
He knew I would be coming over and didn't bother to tell me he would be there? He had told me I didn't need to let him know when I was coming just to go whenever I wanted. This man hasn't taken a day off of work for illness since I met him. Something here is fishy.
Sure hope he isn't still sick tomorrow
It was tough not to ask what was wrong and if I could bring him something but that is about the last thing he deserves at this point.
Honestly, I think self-aware husbands are even harder to deal with. My H diagnosed himself with MLC even before I researched what it was.
Sometimes I feel he is ahead of me in assessing what how he reacts to what I do, Like when he told me that I should not be afraid to be strong and independent, as it did not mean he would leave me, he may even want to stay more with me. That was 3 weeks ago.
Weird, as though he read DR book too.
NOW he says he is going insane.
E, the divorce your L draws up is just a piece of paper. It is the rest of this stuff that may get in the way. Worry about detaching and taking care of yourself. That will help you with your boards much more than what is happening with the D papers or your H. If you can, maybe you can push the adjournment far enough away that it not interfering with your boards.
As far as your H deciding to stay home sick, I agree that it does sound fishy. Like 25 says though, IF he wants back, he will let you know. Maybe he is just sticking a toe in the water since he hasn't had much contact for a while.
Good job keeping from pursuing though.
Yep, it is the 'stuff' and the finality of the D that I am worried will get in the way. I think I am about as detached as I can be at the moment. The final paper acknowledging the D is going to affect me no matter when in happens.
That is where I struggle.
If it is going to happen no matter what, by all means, have it done and over. If there is a chance of things working out, I can always take boards again and can get a job without passing.
If anyone is not using their crystal ball right now, may I borrow it?
Mine seems to be broke. Sorry.
Adjournment is killing me. I want everything out in the open and him to know I am not covering for him anymore. Limbo is sooo f'ing awful.
He does not have the nerve to even talk to me. Am I really that scary? He is so afraid of the truth. I am so angry today. I have so many awful words for him.
I'm sorry. What can you do to change your mood?
I feel your pain. I have been covering for my husband for 7 months as well. I am not saying anything for the sake of his job, meanwhile he is continuing the affair. I agree with you limbo is so hard!!!! I thought it would be easier, less final than a divorce, but I think it is so unsettling and causes a lot of anxiety.
Yes, thank you L & C, finally someone who understands...
Ok. I think I feel better after a bucket of tears. Needed to remember that I am a whole person now, not the half I was when we separated. Things happen for a reason. Either we find each other again and have a better M than ever before, or we go our separate ways and I still get to be a better partner than I ever was... which can really only lead to more happiness than I was experiencing.
Even though sometimes I have a really hard time believing it, he must be suffering to an extent as well. You don't get to do what he has done and not carry guilt. The guilt eats at you... and will definitely eat at him. He has a conscience, even if he can pretend to the rest of the world that he is 'OK with the D' (as he likes to be sure to add).
I think I now feel OK about the adjournment. I really only have to suffer an extra month if I let myself. I can choose to feel fine that I am not the one pursuing this and remind myself that HE can feel the guilt a little while longer. My real problem was in not having control... there it is, the big 'C' again... but if I remember what I can control, it gets a ton easier. I can even smile as I know I have gained the strength here. Likely, H is far, far behind in this.
Rough, rough day. At least I have a better perspective before bed.
Sorry you have had such a rough day. Thought about your adjournment today and just got back to the computer. Glad you are feeling better now.
I have had those crazy days too, where I feel like the world is crashing down around me. How will I ever survive THIS!?
And then, after a bit, things fall back into perspective. I will survive. Whatever it was that seemed so earth-shattering is somehow berable.
Same problem, nothing really changed. I just saw it differently and realized I would be ok.
One thing I have noticed, is the longer this goes on, the shorter the time it takes to recover from the hurt. That is good, because H keeps dishing it out. You may not have felt like it, but you are doing great, E. You should be really proud of yourself for making so much progress in so short a time.
(((hugs)))
Thanks for the encouragement!
Hi E35
Glad to hear your got yourself together again.. Its so hard when you see your H's going on ahead with their lives as if you dont exist, but I think thats part of it, they block us out, if they dont think about us then we cant be a problem and neither do they have to face what awful circumstances they have caused..
Good to see you out and about doing other stuff on the net!
Ok, could use some thoughts on my current sitch, quick update...
Essentially NC past ~6 weeks. Saw each other in hallway a couple of times, I smile, say 'hi' keep walking and make no attempts to engage him. Small changes I notice- he resumes parking in area we have always parked in, starting to loiter a bit in my area at work when not necessary. Maybe trying to catch my eye a couple of times. I just keep doing my thing.
The NC followed me blowing him off a little bit when he kept coming to me at work 1) acting like we are pals and wanting to tell me how hard his shift was or 2) to see if I got this letter from L or that etc. Seemed to fill 2 things for him: he got the comfort of talking about this in a 'safe' place and he enjoys talking to me.
Tues. first contact, he e-mails me about changing my account to my password as he realized he had set it up for me & let me know he found a non-essential item at the house I had asked him to look for 3 months prior.
I replied thanks...planning on coming to house Thurs + Frid to get rest of my stuff if it worked out for me. It is implied, as before, that I will do that while he is at work. He replies I can get it whenever I want.
Thurs is notice of request for adjournment- no sure if he or his L initiated it. Text that I am heading out to house in 1 hr, could we meet some time to talk about adjournment, coffee perhaps? He replies he is at the house sick. Told him I will come on Fri instead then, hope he feels better.
No text back.
I do not text or go on Fri, did not see his car at work (TBH, chickened out a little). Sunday he texts I should call to discuss adjournment and rescheduling when I have time... now I know he initiated it and he still doesn't want to meet face to face w/o a security blanket (house, school).
I respond via e-mail and cc my L: H, I work all week. I would be happy to meet after work somewhere to discuss adjournment so I can reply to Mr. L. Can see H opened e-mail but no response. (2 e-mails from L in that time wishing me luck and building my self-esteem
)
This AM (Monday), he comes to find me at work, 'do you have a minute to talk?' I tell him I don't, he can see I am busy and this is the time of day I can not talk. (besides, I have already requested that he does not talk to me about this at work) He says he has a flexible schedule this week, call when I can to talk about the adjournment and rescheduling.
Ugh. We have been together 9 years and he can't even face me to talk!?! He is doing everything possible to avoid it.
After being upset about this all day long, I finally reach a point where I say to myself that if he is so uncomfortable and terrified to meet me, he clearly still has feelings. Maybe I should just drop it and tell my L to OK the adjournment. According to my L, it's not like they won't get it anyway regardless of what I want.
IF, we do meet up, I need to be prepared! I essentially would like to know why he has requested adjournment. If it is to self-serve I want to tell him not to drag his feet. No need to drag this out, I am ready to move on. That being said, its not what I want but if this is how it has to be, I want it over.
He will bring up WAS crap again. "I have nothing to hide" Planned response: you and I both know that is not the truth.
But the truth is, I don't have a lot of intel. I saw an e-mail that was crossing the friend line back in April. They both had blackberry's so I am sure there was lots more of msging but not where I could see it. I do not have proof of an in-depth EA and no proof of a PA. I KNOW there was at least a EA w/ someone. I know based on his actions. Suspect PA at end. I know PA within weeks of separation.
He likes to also say "I am OK with the D"... I don't know how to respond to that. Obviously he is not if he has to bring it up. It is so forced.
Regarding reason for adjournment. Even if he is having second thoughts, he WILL NOT admit it. I am sure of it. He will use some excuse so I don't know how to wade through the crap to say I don't want a D, but I don't want to remain married to someone behaving like him.
I feel like he is holding on to me. Knowing that if he delays it, I am not likely to begin to date until I am officially D'd. Who knows though, maybe it truly has nothing to do with a foot anywhere near the door.
Sorry this is so long. I am just freaked out about how to respond. I have a very difficult and long work week ahead of me. This is not a prime time for meeting him but not sure I can wait any more... but, I may not have a choice.
My other thought is to just e-mail him.
Tell him that I prefer to talk about this face to face but if it is too uncomfortable for him to meet me, I will assume the adjournment is important for him and that I will let my L know that I agree to it.
IDK what the heck to do...
Hey E.
Answers to those pesky 'why' questions are unlikely, but your post sounds like you already know that. It sounds like your H is trying to push the boundries you set, especially trying to 'talk' at work. Very likely that he is looking for reasurances too.
Your H doesn't sound like he is looking to do any meaningful reconnection. Be careful about getting your hopes up about getting any answers from him.
Don't rush this. If you decide to meet him, make sure it is when and where you are comfortable. Try to let go of your expectations and listen to him. You may not find out what you need to hear, but you may find out something. He is trying hard to tell you something. It may not be anything helpful, but who knows? Whatever it is, he sounds like he is spending a lot of energy trying to get to you.
Anyway, just .02 from a sleepy person on cold meds. Hope I was at least coherant.
Best of luck E.
My other thought is to just e-mail him.
Tell him that I prefer to talk about this face to face but if it is too uncomfortable for him to meet me, I will assume the adjournment is important for him and that I will let my L know that I agree to it.
IDK what the heck to do...
This would let you stay dark/dim. If he still wanted to talk to you after that he would have to keep working for it.
When do dyou have to answer on the adjournment?
Should probably answer in the next 1-2 days...
Essentially NC past ~6 weeks. Saw each other in hallway a couple of times, I smile, say 'hi' keep walking and make no attempts to engage him. Small changes I notice- he resumes parking in area we have always parked in, starting to loiter a bit in my area at work when not necessary. Maybe trying to catch my eye a couple of times. I just keep doing my thing.
^^^ E, this is good. Going dark is getting his attention.
The NC followed me blowing him off a little bit when he kept coming to me at work 1) acting like we are pals and wanting to tell me how hard his shift was or 2) to see if I got this letter from L or that etc. Seemed to fill 2 things for him: he got the comfort of talking about this in a 'safe' place and he enjoys talking to me.
These are the needs your H has not been getting met by you. His increased contact, especially his being home sick when he expected you to drop by sound like he is trying to reestablish the level of contact he is comfortable with. Him trying to set the place does sound like he wants you to meet him on his terms. He isn’t ready to stretch and meet you half way.
Ugh. We have been together 9 years and he can't even face me to talk!?! He is doing everything possible to avoid it.
If your H doesn’t want to talk to you face to face, and you are pushing for it… sounds like you are starting to chase him. You are asking for more contact than he wants. He won’t come to you if you come to him first.
After being upset about this all day long, I finally reach a point where I say to myself that if he is so uncomfortable and terrified to meet me, he clearly still has feelings. Maybe I should just drop it and tell my L to OK the adjournment. According to my L, it's not like they won't get it anyway regardless of what I want.
^^^ Sounds like a good idea, especially if the outcome on the adjournment is the same regardless of what you do.
As far as your H having feelings for you, you are probably right. Just don’t get too wrapped up in what those feelings are. Keep detaching. This is when detaching from your H can help you the most.
IF, we do meet up, I need to be prepared! I essentially would like to know why he has requested adjournment. If it is to self-serve I want to tell him not to drag his feet. No need to drag this out, I am ready to move on. That being said, its not what I want but if this is how it has to be, I want it over.
^^^ I understand how much all this limbo [censored]. Remember, you have the power to ‘be done’ any time. The D is just paperwork, and a month or two longer isn’t really going to make a big difference in how you deal with this. The emotional D is the tough one, and it really has nothing to do with that piece of paper.
He will bring up WAS crap again. "I have nothing to hide" Planned response: you and I both know that is not the truth.
But the truth is, I don't have a lot of intel. I saw an e-mail that was crossing the friend line back in April. They both had blackberry's so I am sure there was lots more of msging but not where I could see it. I do not have proof of an in-depth EA and no proof of a PA. I KNOW there was at least a EA w/ someone. I know based on his actions. Suspect PA at end. I know PA within weeks of separation.
He likes to also say "I am OK with the D"... I don't know how to respond to that. Obviously he is not if he has to bring it up. It is so forced.
Put ALL of this out of your mind, ESPECIALLY if you do meet with him. Unless he wants to come back, there is no point hashing out the details of any of this. If he brings it up, you put it down. Tell him you are not there to discuss your R. Stick to business. This stuff will not help you heal, resolve your legal status, or bring him back.
Regarding reason for adjournment. Even if he is having second thoughts, he WILL NOT admit it. I am sure of it. He will use some excuse so I don't know how to wade through the crap to say I don't want a D, but I don't want to remain married to someone behaving like him.
^^^ These are issues that are better for you to look at on your own. Don’t ask your H for answers. He doesn’t have his own, much less any to give you.
I feel like he is holding on to me. Knowing that if he delays it, I am not likely to begin to date until I am officially D'd. Who knows though, maybe it truly has nothing to do with a foot anywhere near the door.
He probably does want to hold on to you and keep you from anyone else too. WAW’s are incredibly hypocritical and irrational about this. Detach. Don’t think about what he wants. When you are ready to date, you will.
But… are you really ready to date right now anyway? I don’t know about you, but it may be a long time before I am ready to date again. I don’t want to jump in before I am ready.
Sorry this is so long. I am just freaked out about how to respond. I have a very difficult and long work week ahead of me. This is not a prime time for meeting him but not sure I can wait any more... but, I may not have a choice.
Hope I didn’t come across too harsh. You have been doing great, and you are still doing great. Unlike your H, you are facing your fears and conquering them. You have come a long way, E. Try to focus on work and take care of yourself. Protect yourself first. Detach. Stop trying to figure out what he is thinking.
One last question for you to mull over…
How important is a face to face? It doesn’t help you to stay dark, and it gives your H a bit of the superficial contact he wants. You don’t seem to be expecting to get any answers.
If he is having second thoughts and wants to drag this out for that reason, he is unlikely to tell you that. A face to face that he doesn’t want may even push him back into his tunnel. If he
isn’t having second thoughts, it is just a matter of paperwork. Either way, staying dark may be your best answer.
Remember E, that you DO have a choice. If meeting with him is not a good idea right now, then don’t. Don’t let him pull you back in.
As always, just my humble opinion. Others may have a different take on this for you.
(((E)))
E35
After a six weeks of NC my H started to iniate contact with me, Im not sure if its they are just plain nosy or its the beginning of new things! Honestly you are not going to know, no mind reading just keep doing it..
Its hard sticking to NC not knowing if its having any effect or not. I'd stick with email, keep making yourself a little outta his reach all the time, if hes gonna chase hes gonna have to chase harder ..
The upside to this is that you keep growing into the woman you should be!
Did you get my message on the alt!
Zen- thanks for such a thoughtful reply. I really appreciate it. I guess I just needed to hear it talked out like that to realize I am pushing. I am think I will just reply with a, "You're right, it will be hard to get together. I will let my L know that I agree to the adjournment"...
This is probably much better than what I want to say... why the hell can't you talk to the person with whom you spent 9 years! I am not covering for you at work any more, you left me to 'start over'!!!! If you want a D so bad, stop dragging this out!!!
Ahh, OK, that feels better.
Lost Rabbit- thanks for stopping by. I got a msg on the alt, but not from you?? Is that what you mean...
Z, you should check me out elsewhere... I did it! Dropped a bomb of my own... or 2. I am proud of myself.