Previous thread was locked for some reason ... anyway, here is my reply!
Sorry but I don't understand...did you expect that she was going to talk to you during your NC?Or that she would have "woken up" by now?
I'm not actually sure what I expected to be honest - I hadn't expected her to wake up though or end the A - as I said I think that will be in place for a long time. I didn't expect she would go to all out to remove every trace of her from her life.
Looking at it, and what I say about these things being a power game, I feel my power is slipping and I feel the M, the R and W are all slipping away.
Yes she is in the fog of the affair, that is for sure!
I know I am being thick, but I just don't see it. I don't even think she sees this as an A to be honest. She left and started a new relationship. I think that's how she sees it.
I imagine that people haven't said that because, at least for me, I thought it was obvious that she is in a daze!
Probably. It was, and still is a bad day(s). I don't see the daze though.
And I wanted to add that although you don't think she has seen your improvements, she has because you told us you used to cave in and be all talk and little follow through (rewording but I think that's the gist!). Well you have been NC for a solid month. You made her go to IM in another town to get her Christmas stuff! (bravo!) so some of your actions are definitely shining through to her.
I'll bet she sees that as me being stubborn, childish and awkward though rather than strong, determined and following through.
The only thing I think she is showing is a huff because of D's car seat. The car seat isn't important, but the sitch with it is. She ignored IM twice requesting it (by text and through OM) which is kind of out of character as, you know, it's a kids car seat. It's important. Apparently it is still in her car. That shows me she is in a huff. Not sure why, but she is. She is most likely ticking two fingers up and saying 'if wants to play games so will I'.
On top of that, it sounds like information gets to her from people at the shop, right? Or facebook or your MIL. So your GAL is getting to her.
Sort of I suppose.
**I wanted to add that when you do see your MIL, be sure to be charming and happy and looking good because it will definitely get back to W!
Oh, that I will
That will be an interesting game (which is what I see it as) ... I imagine it will be a like Sonic The Hedgehog (you know the game where the hedgehog runs around and collects the gold coins (if you don't this will be lost on you) but I will hear the little coin collecting noise each time I DB MIL
Makes me smile anyway.
MIL has left two voicemails for me this morning. Haven't listened to them yet.
If you want to move on and file for D, set a date and then see if you still feel like it when the date arrives. I actually had a quick fantasy that all of us on here would make a pact to file for D by choosing the same date and say good riddance! (BUt then I remembered that I don't want to go from man to man looking for WH in all of them)
I have a sort of deadline in my head of April next year - that will be 8 months since OM moved in and also it's my wedding anniversary during that month. Would it be good for her to get her papers served to her on our anniversary ...
Sorry my friend. I did take the time to think those out. If I offened you in anyway please let me know. In wine truth. My friend.
Cutter, you didn't offend me in any way and I should be apologising to you for making you think you did. I really didn't mean for things to come across the way they did. Everybody on here helps me, and we all help each other. It's an incredible place and I would hate for people to think that I am a petulant child who didn't appreciate it. I was having a bad day, but that is an excuse - there are no excuses. My apologies.
Keep up this work. This is all for you. And only you. And what is good for you is good for your little girl.
It is good for me. As I said on another thread this is the best thing I've done since the S.
As an example, today when driving D back to school after lunch (she comes here for lunch on a Friday) I put the Shrek soundtrack on and listened to All Star - it reminded me of when D was 2-3 and we used to put that on as loud as we could and sing the chorus and she started singing away to it. I cried a little but of sorrow and happiness now sadness. Sorrow that W isn't here to see this. Sorrow that D is step-mumless. Happiness that I can do this stuff. Happiness that I am reconnecting with my D and getting a second chance at that. Happiness that I would rather be on this side of the A than hers as she will never get these moments again - I will always have them. You can't buy that stuff. It's precious.
Thanks again cutter. I always enjoy hearing from you. And I'M sorry if I offended you.
So P what set you off ? What was the trigger for this cycle?
The final trigger was the photo (which I haven't even seen) on W's FB page with the caption 'Me and my man'. I think it's been building for a while. I notice the patterns of these things - happens about once a week at the moment, sometimes worse (as in yesterday) than others.
I think what happens is that the 'I don't care' attitude actually doesn't fool the heart and it just files away the things that 'I don't care' about until the bag get's too full and out they all come.
I want you to notice how long this one lasts. I am guessing you will start rowing again quicker than before.
You know, I think you're going to be right cutter. It's still here today sadly. I was thinking about how to express how it feels. I see it as a knife in my heart - that was pushed in at the S, then pushed all the way in at the A. Every time something happens, or I hear something, see something etc. it's like somebody just twists the knife a little - sometimes it twists more than others. Sometimes they give it a damn good shake (like yesterday). The pain is always there (the knife) and I hope to remove it sometime in the future but it will need to taken out slowly.
I ended up spending tonight talking to a highschool friend who suffered an affair. And she spent the last few years doing them on other people. She has no male friends so I said I would be her first.
I gave her, her first boundary.
That must have felt good? Setting a boundary with somebody else. I have set a few and by and large they are adhered to. I need to man up and set a few more and enforce the existing ones a bit more.
I told her that I could be the first person she tries a boundary out on. And I also told her she should check out this site.
Add that on to the conversation with ladybugs cus... 90 minutes of truthdarts.
LOL ... I do the same. The conversation usually turns around to W at some point
P.S. mama and P go help our friend avermont out.
Will check it out.
I know I am being thick, but I just don't see it. I don't even think she sees this as an A to be honest. She left and started a new relationship. I think that's how she sees it.
THEY ALL try to justify it! That's why it's the fog because they are so dense that they don't see the reality of the situation. Here is a sample "formula:"
WS starts acting distant, moody. They may be picking on the BS. They seem to put up a wall.
WS says things like ILYBINILWY, why did we get married, do you ever think you could be happier with someone else, what do we have in common anymore, etc.They rewrite the marriage history.
WS asks for a separation to "sort things out" and have some space.
WS suddenly has a new lover--whoa, how did they meet in 4 days? THEY DIDN'T.
My wife decided she wanted a six month separation and told me on 2 August about it.
During the time between 2 August and 7 September we continued to live together...Those 5 weeks were absolute hell and a lot was said, particularly by me about how much hurt, anger and upset I was feeling.
On 6 September, the day before she moved out I found out she had been texting another man that I had been suspicious of all along. She was having an EA with him that I think was probably also physical.
Sorry to rehash just wanted to point out how it fit with the formula.
I think what happens is that the 'I don't care' attitude actually doesn't fool the heart and it just files away the things that 'I don't care' about until the bag get's too full and out they all come.
This is a great analogy. I have been there several times. I'm nervous about going to a New Year's party at my friend's house this year because 1)New Years last year at her house with WH was when I found out about the affair. 2) I will be the only "estranged" wife i.e. "single" person. So I'm worried it will all build up and combined with alcohol will be disastrous.
Newmama. Don't get drunk. Enjoy friendship. And at midnight. Smile and think. I survived the worst year of my life. And look at how I am improving. And say happy new year to yourself. Then us.
P17
2x4.
REFLECT not DWELL.
I hope your writting. If not please start. You need to track your progress. I know your doing it here in posts. But to actually write it out is very different. You get to give yourself truthdarts.
The reoccuring Thursdays. Why is it that all this weird stuff happens on Thursdays?
Yesterday was 3 months for me since I last saw ladybug.
Did not even realize it until it was pointed out.
So today is a good day right?
Did you go for your walk?
What are your plans for the weekend ?
I am going out with two mates tonight. Dinner , pints and sports. Should be good.
Tomorrow going to watch some EPL and clean the house and at night I am going to a xmas party. Good friends , good food , good company.
Sunday FIL and I are going out for his birthday. He is a good man.
Hopefully this cycle lasts just a few days.
Take Care.
Part 2 of the WS "formula" (can't think of the right synonym!):
So, while the WS is with the OP...
-starts off exciting, exclusive, 2 lovers against the world!
-the A is exposed, but they hold on...they will be brave and stay together, no matter the odds against them! (Romeo and Juliet)
-the WS finds themself trying to adjust to not having the same relationship with their family and trying to establish new memories and traditions with the OP
-the WS is insecure with the OP, worried the OP will cheat on them
-the OP stops working so hard to woo the WS because "they have them"
-the OP gets tired of having to reassure the WS
-if there are kids, the OP gets tired of sharing their time with the WS because of the kids
-the WS starts to miss their old life but fights it off, they start to realize that their new life with the OP doesn't bring them the happiness they expected
-the WS compares the OP to the BS, starts to wonder about the BS and thinks fondly of them
-the OP gets insecure and is worried the WS will go back to BS
-the OP pressures WS for divorce from BS...what's taking so long?
-the relationship ends in some way
-the WS looks up the BS; reaches out
Now if BS has established NC, then the WS is at first free to engage in the A without being reminded of the guilt. But the story plays out the same. Many argue that the A ends faster because the WS doesn't get to "eat cake" by staying in touch with BS.
All FWS who have shared their story claim they never stopped loving BS
With my WH and his exW, she "never looked back" for 3 years because she got married and had kids with the OM. But the same thing happened regarding missing her life with WH.
With my SIL's exH, he viciously pursued D (like DBD's H) and then threw the relationship in SIL's face because "she had to get used to this reality"
SIL begged, pleaded, cried, fought back. Her exH ended his relationship with OW 9 months after it began but was too proud to go back to SIL. He decided to play the field and live the bachelor life (even though he still had his boys and stayed in touch but at first he wasn't as involved with them). 6 months after "playing the field" he started to become nicer to my SIL, and she became suspicious. Meanwhile, she had met a nice fellow. After a few months of him knowing she was with the new guy, he told her he wanted to work things out. She told her boyfriend and they ended their relationship. Her exH wasn't able to do the hard work involved and bailed.She went back to her boyfriend. 6 months later, he tries again to get her back. She discovers she is willing to try and her new boyfriend had some major baggage that was starting to concern her anyway. So from July to present, they are taking it slow, still divorced, but having date nights and he is in IC and they are spending time with the boys together as a family each weekend. He wants to marry her again.
So those are 2 scenarios. It took more than 6 months for the WS to "wake up" even with NC and D.
You know what P17 I am going to title my new thread the same.
NC - W vanished ...
But you know what. I read it completely differently.
Two meanings. Same words.
!!!!!!!!!
Cutter, who cares what you call your thread, just start it already!
But I'm trying to figure out the other meaning of NC-W vanished.
?????
I'm cycling ... cutter, you mentioned this to me before but wasn't altogether sure what it meant. Was reading this post today
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1897940#Post1897940 and it hit the nail on the head.
Newmama, thanks for the info you posted. A lot of it makes sense. Still hasn't killed the negative thoughts and has in fact reinforced some. Still think that W and OM will have this long term and possibly marry - gut feeling.
Off out to D's xmas concert at school so will try and perhaps post more later.
Just journalling, venting, whatever.
Just back from D's Xmas concert.
It was a good concert but it just brought back some really happy and now sad memories.
This time last year W and I had no contact with D at all. We went to D's Xmas Concert at school though and at the end, when D was on stage, My W shouted 'Wooooo, come on D' and that was simply for one thing ... to let D know we were there. See she didn't know we were coming as we couldn't get to speak to her to tell her. Afterwards D told us that she knew we were there because she heard my W shouting for her. After D came off stage, D's grandparents were around her like a body guard and we couldn't get to see her. So we just left.
That memory has always stayed with me. That act of shouting so loudly to let your step-D know that you are there for her. It just said a lot of things in that one gesture. Her love for step-D, her love for me, and her support for me in the difficult sitch we found ourselves in. I will never forget that. THAT is the W I married. THAT behaviour is the reason I married her. This new and 'improved' W would never do that.
That's what upset me today.
I did think that W would maybe be there today and I would have been mad if she had. But, I'm also sad that she wasn't. I WANT her to fight me on this. I WANT her to stand up and shout 'Woooo, come on D' when D is on stage again in defiance of me. I WANT her to do these things. I'll be mad, but I will have a lot of respect for her. A lot more than I have now.
But she didn't come.
A year ago my W stood up for me and her against what was being done today. Today, she has removed herself completely from D's life. It hurts and it's upsetting.
Its this, the lies she has told, her family abandoning D and me, the complete separation of our lives and her cowardly attitude that makes me think that recovering this M would be a task on the scale of something too big for her to handle. It would be far easier for her to walk away and start again.
Another thing that was brought home to me today. Looking at the little Primary 1 and Primary 2 kids (5 and 6 years old) just made me think how nice it would have been if me and W were sat there watching our son or daughter (we had been trying for 9 months before she left). It brought home to me that loss too. Whether I have kids or not with somebody else isn't the point, I always wanted them with her. She was a great mother ... right up to the point she abandoned her step-D. Maybe it's the FOG, and I do get that (even though I'm not sure she's in it) but how do you forgive something like that?
I've forgiven the leaving me and D. I've forgiven the sex with OM. I've even forgiven her lies to him about me being violent. I've forgiven the lies to me from her. I've forgiven most of it. I am having real difficulty forgiving her unwillingness to keep her step-D. Maybe it will come. I don't know.
Two things I've experienced today - deep hurt for W abandoning step-D. Deep love for my W and her ability to stand up and stick two fingers up at the world and fight for D. Contradictory. Yes. Why? I don't know. That is what causing me some angst today.
It at least tells me I still deeply love W. That I was really beginning to question.
Thanks again for this forum. I'd be in a whole other place without it.
Just another sad day here. I know I'm cycling. I just want to get this out and on here.
A year ago my W stood up for me and her against what was being done today. Today, she has removed herself completely from D's life. It hurts and it's upsetting.
It makes sense as to why you are hurting and in pain. I hope you'll feel better soon. I won't offer words of encouragement right now; just will let you know I read your feelings and I care. (((P17)))
I listened to the messages left by MIL today.
She left two yesterday. One early morning (around 10am) and the other in the afternoon at 1pm.
Was saying that she had two presents for D and if it would be okay to send them. Later she called and said she had sent them because she didn't want to miss them getting here and I had returned her earlier call to say if it was okay.
She kept calling me sweetheart on the phone which I found strange given the sitch. She would have called me that before, but I found it strange to be called it now.
Not sure of anything else.
They were okay messages, I just found them, as I said, a little weird given the sitch.
I think the postman tried to deliver the parcel earlier but I was out at D's xmas concert. Will call her on Monday when I pick the parcel up.
I refuse to read anything into it as everytime I do I get disappointed, upset or I'm just plain wrong
It is what it is.
MIL called you sweetheart because she cares for you. Do not blame her for her daughter's wrongdoing. But youdon't have to reach out to her if you don't want to, either. So I guess I am saying there is nothing to read into IMO.
Just been into the shop where W works. Guess who is now working as a temp on the checkouts ... yes OM.
I needed every bit of strength and control not to rush over there and drag him out from behind the checkouts. He knew exactly who I was and while he tried to remain composed I know he was concerned - red face, avoided my stare. I unfortunately said to D 'that's the man that took your step mum away from us'. Not the right thing to do but it was a bad moment in an otherwise bad day.
I am not a violent guy. I'm not even an overly aggressive guy but everybody seemed to know who he was and what he had done. I noticed two security people watching me as I left. I noticed there was also a guy on OM's checkout chatting away to him. It was if backup was close at hand.
I asked for the Personnel Manager's number and will speak to her on Monday. The affair started on the shop premises (in another town), he couldn't get a transfer from one store to another because of his sickness record, he left the store in the other two and is now working in the store with the woman he is having an A with? Doesn't seem right to me.
Don't know if they will do anything but I will be pushing this as far as I can.
Then I have been thinking. If everybody does know what he has done (assuming I am correct and they do) maybe keeping him there will do two things 1) the pressure of the colleagues will hurt them both 2) the pressure of them seeing each other every day will put pressure on them.
At the moment I really need to calm down. Feel like my heart has once again been ripped out and stood upon.
I did the wrong thing tonight. They have the power back now. They know they got to me. They know I am hurting. Bad move on my part.
And I loved this woman again ... why?
MIL called you sweetheart because she cares for you.
Newmama, if you would have seen the texts between MIL and W just before she left you wouldn't be saying that.
Do not blame her for her daughter's wrongdoing. But youdon't have to reach out to her if you don't want to, either. So I guess I am saying there is nothing to read into IMO.
I'm not blaming her for her daughters wrongdoing. But when you know she supports that wrongdoing ...
I tried to edit the last post but by the time I had finished, the time to update it had expired.
I'm afraid this is nothing more than a pity party just now. At least I understand that. It's been a bad few days and my nose is getting raw from the amount of rubbing it's getting.
The next bit is pure venting and to be ignored.
I really have had enough of this just now. I know they are moving on with their lives but do they have no consideration? No regard? No interest in the embarassment they are causing? The girl I asked in the store, who he was, knew exactly who he was and was praying to god that I didn't - I could see it in her face. The woman wanders around like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, and yet has removed herself completely from a 7 year relationship almost overnight. I get no contact from her family (MIL excluded) and I just have to sit here and accept that I, P, is responsible for all this sh*t and I should just 'move on with my life' because she has? It's like I've hit a rubber wall ... everytime I take a run at it or hit it, it just throws me back onto the floor.
I thought I had come a long way, but, where exactly have I got to? Everytime I think I get somewhere BAM, something else hits me. I am tired. I am hurting. I feel almost as bad as I did when she left. The worst part is, she just does not care. The woman you laughed, loved and shared with for 7 years has dissolved that entire time in 4 short months.
Vent over.
Just been into the shop where W works. Guess who is now working as a temp on the checkouts ... yes OM.
How far away is the next grocery store? Just incase you can not deal with this. Calm and collect. In difference to the scum bag.I needed every bit of strength and control not to rush over there and drag him out from behind the checkouts. He knew exactly who I was and while he tried to remain composed I know he was concerned - red face, avoided my stare. I unfortunately said to D 'that's the man that took your step mum away from us'. Not the right thing to do but it was a bad moment in an otherwise bad day.
That is ok my friend. She knows who the enemy is as well. She also can now put a face to the person who altered her world as well. There is nothing wrong with you here. You were calm and collect and your daughter watched how you handled your self. This would be a great chace to have a life lesson conversation here. How it is better to act on facts in a postive way. Than to lose control and end up doing something that can harm yourself or others. I am sure you can think of many more.I am not a violent guy. I'm not even an overly aggressive guy but everybody seemed to know who he was and what he had done. I noticed two security people watching me as I left. I noticed there was also a guy on OM's checkout chatting away to him. It was if backup was close at hand.
Calm and collect. You are a strong person. You made the right choice. Next time give a little wink. And do not forget to smile and wave with the security people. If you know them.I asked for the Personnel Manager's number and will speak to her on Monday. The affair started on the shop premises (in another town), he couldn't get a transfer from one store to another because of his sickness record, he left the store in the other two and is now working in the store with the woman he is having an A with? Doesn't seem right to me.
Don't know if they will do anything but I will be pushing this as far as I can.
Then I have been thinking. If everybody does know what he has done (assuming I am correct and they do) maybe keeping him there will do two things 1) the pressure of the colleagues will hurt them both 2) the pressure of them seeing each other every day will put pressure on them.
Too late to do that. Just let it go. The store knows about it already. You let it play out without your involvement. Embrace the path of Plan B. Keep in the dark. Do not send a message that your hurting from this and need to lash out in any way.At the moment I really need to calm down. Feel like my heart has once again been ripped out and stood upon.
Did you take a walk on the beach yet? Let the sound of the waves calm you.I did the wrong thing tonight. They have the power back now. They know they got to me. They know I am hurting. Bad move on my part.
I think you did the right thing tonight. You were strong. You passed a huge test. What was that test? P17 can continue with his life. P17 did not give up any aspect of his life to the Adultery. P17 is a man who has an inner strength which will help him overcome the shortcomings of others. I am Proud of ya P. Look how far you have come. And you did this while going through a hard cycle.
P.S. Did you learn to mindread over night?
And I loved this woman again ... why?
Beats me. But sounds like you still do 
A quote for ya.
'Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults' Dr Harley
So now P.
Its time to answer my questions from yesterday. And if you having some wine right now. Tonight is a good night to stay completely sober. Not a touch of booze until you get out of this cycle.
REFLECT not DWELL.
I hope your writting. If not please start. You need to track your progress. I know your doing it here in posts. But to actually write it out is very different. You get to give yourself truthdarts.
So today is a good day right?
Did you go for your walk?
What are your plans for the weekend ?
How far away is the next grocery store? Just incase you can not deal with this. Calm and collect. In difference to the scum bag.
Cutter, the word cum bag actually made me feel better. Everybody is so calm and collected on here it's nice to hear an expletive once in a while, even if it's a mild one.
There are three shops closer to me than this one. The problem is, the one where W works is huge and has everything in it so it's one trip. Tonight I could have went to another and got the stuff I wanted but I decided not to. No reason. Just decided not to. Maybe I was mean to go to the shop tonight. Who knows.
In addition to that there is no effing way in hell I am let those two actually change my behaviours, even if it something as simple as where I shop. I go somewhere else and they get to continue their A without being reminded of what they have done? BZZT. No. No way. Ain't happening.
I know you asked if I could shop elsewhere for ME, in case I can't handle it. You are completely right, I may not be able to handle it but it is only a bloke working in a shop. Right? Small consolation - their Saturday is messed up as he was working. Means something to me ...
That is ok my friend. She knows who the enemy is as well. She also can now put a face to the person who altered her world as well. There is nothing wrong with you here. You were calm and collect and your daughter watched how you handled your self. This would be a great chace to have a life lesson conversation here. How it is better to act on facts in a postive way. Than to lose control and end up doing something that can harm yourself or others. I am sure you can think of many more.
I had a quick chat with her earlier as she was asking what was wrong with me.
I had another longer chat when she went to bed and I told her about actions having consequences and that married people do not have boyfriends and girlfriends.
She understood why I stopped contact with W - she said it was like me and OM having a tug of war with W in the middle. I explained that I had to let go of that rope. She has decided to call OM - Mud Face ... that's better than the name I had so it will do fine.
Calm and collect. You are a strong person. You made the right choice. Next time give a little wink.
That I DO like ...
And do not forget to smile and wave with the security people. If you know them.
I don't know them unfortunately.
Why is it too late to do that? He has only just started working there?
Just let it go. The store knows about it already. You let it play out without your involvement. Embrace the path of Plan B. Keep in the dark. Do not send a message that your hurting from this and need to lash out in any way.
I suppose you may be right. It may also be counterproductive for the reasons I mentioned above (I don't know about you but I'd hate to work with my BF / partner)!
Did you take a walk on the beach yet? Let the sound of the waves calm you.
It's about -5 degrees here today cutter. And yesterday was just as cold. In fact it's been snowing here ... gave the beach a miss
I think you did the right thing tonight. You were strong. You passed a huge test. What was that test? P17 can continue with his life. P17 did not give up any aspect of his life to the Adultery. P17 is a man who has an inner strength which will help him overcome the shortcomings of others. I am Proud of ya P. Look how far you have come. And you did this while going through a hard cycle.
You know how to say the right things cutter. They are helpful and encouraging words. Thank you for them.
P.S. Did you learn to mindread over night?
That you will need to explain ...
And I loved this woman again ... why?
Beats me. But sounds like you still do It beats me too ... and while I know I love her, she's not making any of this sh*t easy. My head wants to get her away from me as quickly as possible. My heart ain't there yet. It get's there and then something happens (contact from mIL, OM working in the shop yada yada).
MIL thing has been concerning me too. For me to move on fully I need to make it clear to them that NC is for them too as I need to make a completely clean break. It's tough and it hurts but I feel that would be the best way. However I am reluctant. MIL
may (and I need to stress MAY) be a good ally to have in helping to sway W. However, if what I know is correct (and the evidence I have kind of confirms it) she supports the A, the W and me and D being left behind.
One other thing that is bothering me. MIL said she would send presents to either me or D's mum. The D's mum thing confused me. She's never said anything like that before. I am beginning to wonder if she thinks that me and D's mum are together again ... we are together a lot and have been seen out eating, shopping etc. Maybe word has got back ... not sure if to quash that rumour or use it. I feel quash it may be better.
This is something I'm just not sure about yet. Will be calling her on Monday anyway when I get the parcel with the presents. Not sure how to handle that other than being upbeat and positive.
A quote for ya.
'Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults' Dr Harley
Cutter, I've got to be honest. I never actually fully understood that quote for my sitch. Facts point us towards solutions - I have facts but I have no solutions that I can think of. Illusion leads us astray - the illusion here may very well me thinking I can save my M! Not sure ... elaborate.
Its time to answer my questions from yesterday. And if you having some wine right now. Tonight is a good night to stay completely sober. Not a touch of booze until you get out of this cycle.
Cutter, I a man who drinks rarely. Since W has left that has been upped, must confess. And I do it at the wrong time. I'm not violent, I'm not aggressive but sometimes you just feel like a drink, you know. In the last 4 months I've probably consumed about 8 bottles of wine and a half dozen pints. Not an awful lot.
Anyway ...
REFLECT not DWELL.
I hope your writting. If not please start.
I do write sometimes. That was suggested by the IC. I do feel however that writing just rips it out of me and I either don't finish or I'm a mess at the end. It's something I'm more reluctant to do than before and I'm not sure if it helps me.
You need to track your progress. I know your doing it here in posts. But to actually write it out is very different.
I don't know what progress I need to track though. I don't appear to making any progress at the moment with me and no progress on the M.
You get to give yourself truthdarts.
I think I know what truthdarts are. I've only started seeing them mentioned recently though. Again, can you elborate?
So today is a good day right?
It's not a bad day ... that's about as much as you will get out of me
It's not as bad as I thought it was at the time.
Did you go for your walk?
See above quote about the plummeting temperatures! I have been out though.
What are your plans for the weekend ?
I have D this weekend. She's just gone to bed.
Hey P I was out for the evening. Its almost 3 am so I will reply in the morning. Cold or no cold. Its good to get out.
But I really wanted you to know that I was thinking about ya. Take Care my friend.
I live in canada so I understand about below zero...
5 days til Christmas, then we will have all gotten through the hardest Christmas ever!
5 days til Christmas, then we will have all gotten through the hardest Christmas ever!
You said it newmama. I am actually looking forward to it. Very VERY apprehensive, but still looking forward to it. It will be weird not having W around and I have decided (there is that phrase again) that I am just going to go with the emotions on the day whatever they may be. I have been invited to D's mum's for Xmas day so that will hopefully be fun.
Just a little update on the sitch.
I saw the woman at D's work I spoke to a few weeks ago and told about my mum. I was puzzled as to how W and MIL found out about it. I thought maybe the woman I spoke to had told W.
So I spoke to her today and asked her, she said she did tell W but by the time she had done, W already knew. She didn't know how W found out though (she couldn't remember). Nobody knew about this so I actually have no idea who told her.
The only place she could have found out was my Facebook page but I don't think she's interested enough to check that out so I'm still puzzled.
Woman said that W was going to send a card to my dad. Not to me then.
I thought when we implement NC that the WAS is supposed to fight against it? She has taken the NC, written it down and is sticking to it like glue.
Just another hopeless day at the ranch.
{{P17}} Sorry you are having a rough day.
Your Christmas plans sound great. Hope you have wonderful time.
{{P17}} Sorry you are having a rough day.
Rough dayssss so far
Maybe it's the calm before the storm. I feel it's the start of something. Not sure what. This is the longest 'rough day' I've had since coming on here.
Your Christmas plans sound great. Hope you have wonderful time.
You too ... it'll be tough for us all, but it's only one day. Remember this the one day where we WIN - the WAS doesn't get to have this special time with us and the kids this year. Their loss.
I thought as a mental gesture I have changed my relationship status on FB to Single ... obviously means nothing but it's just another one of those little 'things' that hang about.
Just venting here:
A thought has also been going through my head today ... maybe I should sell my wedding ring. I don't know what I feel about it to be honest it just went through my head. There is no hope that I can see of R and even if there was, it would be a new M, not the old one so the ring is redundant. I find this thought a little bit disturbing to be honest but I'm just putting it down here to get it out.
Chiming in a bit late here, P17, but I, too, offer my consolations for having such a rough day.
I had a real wallow the other day. Finally was able to hear my counselor in my head: "After awhile, bring out your Parent who says, OK now, time to get on to things that have to get done." So I had the weeping child for awhile then--somehow--sucked it up to keep on having a day of some sort. Wasn't easy.
I think you dealt with seeing OM in the store as best you could. Inevitable, and perhaps better to get it over with?
And I admire your conviction not to let them change your habits--why should you be inconvenienced shopping just because of them? Good on you! Keep claiming your life and your habits in your town.
I hope you are feeling a bit more up by the time of this writing.
I've been thinking of changing my relationship status on FB too, but my kids are on it and H's family too. I don't want them tell him I am single now. Don't know why, but doesn't feel right. I'm going to be un-friend-ing most of them anyway except for H's grandfather. I care about him and want him to see that I'm doing well.
About the ring, I know how you feel, but it's all emotions right now. Don't make a decision on that based on emotions. I've been told by a few people that "things get worse before they get better." Don't know if that applies to our sitch, but that gives me a sliver of hope to try to keep on...
P, I HAVE to say this...NC will eventually get to your WW. BUT based on what I have read from other forums (survivinginfidelity.com and marriagebuilders.com) it takes longer than a month! We're talking 6 months, maybe more. Based on what you have said about OM, I honestly and seriously doubt
1) she will marry him (No effing way!!!)
2) it will last longer than 6-9 months.
As for you selling your ring, why not? Men's rings do not cost as much as women's and like you said, it will be a different marriage if you chose to remarry her.
NC really is better for LBS to heal. Damn, I am living this reality. I have ALWAYS just moved on before WH, granted I wasn't married them, but I KNOW in my heart and soul that I would have just said "see ya!" if I didn't share a child with him.
So, I say continue your NC but please do not expect anything to happen for several months. Detaching will allow you to live as you please and keep her on the back burner. Maybe even try dating the way that Cutter is dating. If your expectations are low, you will be happier.
BTW I bet WW did check your facebook page!
P I saw that movie Avatar today. If it is playing in your neck of the woods go see it. 3D... was very good. Good love story and things blow up.
Have you hit rock bottom yet P? Are you broken?
I hope so.
So you can get back up again.
And I really do think writing will help. You get to explore yourself. At first the words will be all over the place. But as time goes by. Something beautiful happens. You learn about yourself. You begin to form patterns and your writing gets better. Then you notice that you words become structured. Your thoughts are determined and you give yourself the truth darts that only you can give yourself.
BTW I meant that if your expectations are low regarding hearing anything from W, you will be happier- NOT meaning have low expectations in your overall life and marriage!
Thanks again guys for the support.
Avermont:
Seeing OM at the shop was actually a surprise. Because of his sitch (ie. working for them in another town, poor sickness record etc.) I didn't think they would take him on. He now has two jobs I believe (I could be wrong) which is something I refused to in the M so that I can have the time with D (I only see her set times). I'll also take on board what you said about the parent and getting on with it. Thanks.
DBD:
I know what you are saying about things getting worse before they get better. I'm hoping that is the case. I'm not going to make any decisions about the ring yet. It may not seem important but it's another thing tying me to the M. I can't even bear to look at the ring and it's inscription so it's actually doing more harm than good in the drawer.
Newmama:
Always a pearl of wisdom and PMA! Thanks. I don't want to respond to your post with a lot of negative as it did give me a little boost this morning when I first read it.
I am questioning everything I know about OM. If he has two jobs he's certainly stepped up to the plate so to speak. When I saw him at the shop the other night he was very VERY happy. That sort of new relationship happy. That isn't something I mentioned before as it occurred to me after I wrote the original post.
The NC isn't really the problem for me as I know it's only been a month. I keep harking back to the same old stuff - no response about car seat (which as I said is quite important for my D, at least W thinks so) although I think MAYBE she is keeping that as payment for the xmas decorations she didn't get; wouldn't put it past her - no card, text, email about my mum to me (although my dad did get a card from her apparently).
I will continue the NC as nothing else will work. I can't go back to her now and say 'Hi' as it will be ignored. I need to keep NC for me, but it's been a tough few days. As far as expecting anything to happen - I don't actually thing anything will happen at all, let alone a few months.
Dating is something I'm looking at but the 'pool' in this area is tiny. I have been out on one date but it was a bit of a disaster. Wasn't ready,
With regards to FB page, negativity rules so I am saying nothing.
P I saw that movie Avatar today. If it is playing in your neck of the woods go see it. 3D... was very good. Good love story and things blow up.
Would quite like to see it. Unfortunately the nearest cinema is now 110 miles from here ...
Have you hit rock bottom yet P? Are you broken?
I hope so.
So you can get back up again.
I haven't hit tock bottom yet cutter, but I do feel I am heading that way just now. I am trying to just let things go the way they are without fighting it. I did hear what Avermont said about the parent pulling you out of it but at the moment I feel like just letting this continue in the hope that I can once and for all step on it. Every time I fight it I feel like it's just pushing it out of the way to come back again. This time I just want to surrender to it and stop fighting to see where it takes me.
I feel that the feelings at the moment come from just one thing - hopelessness. I have read before about embracing that feeling but at the moment I'm not in the place to do it. I don't even know where to begin.
I have constantly conflicting feelings about the sitch and what I should do - the love I feel for W, the hate I feel for W, the pain I feel for what she has done to D, the realisation that this M is 100% over and there is nothing I can do to save it, the complete disregard for me and my feelings, the speed at which she has moved on with her life, her family abandoning me and D, her callousness with regards to my mum and finally her ability to erase 7 years of a relationship and 3.5 years of marriage in a matter of months. This has obviously been going on for a while, she didn't wake up one day and decide it but I feel complete and utter hopelessness at the moment and it's worse than when she left.
I don't know why something as small as the picture on FB that I was told about would trigger this, but it has. I feel spent. I feel done. I feel tired. I feel that I have made a huge mistake and that I gave my life to a woman who I adored and she betrayed me without a second thought.
And I really do think writing will help. You get to explore yourself. At first the words will be all over the place. But as time goes by. Something beautiful happens. You learn about yourself. You begin to form patterns and your writing gets better. Then you notice that you words become structured. Your thoughts are determined and you give yourself the truth darts that only you can give yourself.
I will try and write again. As I said before it brought a lot out of me so I don't like doing it but maybe that is the point?
I see my IC tomorrow so will hopefully see what she can help me with.
First time I've posted to you P17 but I have been following your story. I'm sorry for what you've gone thru, all I can say is I've been there and done that and it WILL get easier with a little more time.
My one bit of advice is to stay away from your wife's job. I thought it was a bad idea before the OM started working there. If you are doing no contact, then stick to your guns and mean it. I dont know if you are going into the store just to try to prove you are doing ok or what. You've asked your wife to not contact you. So why is it ok if you go into her job? No contact means NO CONTACT...not no contact unless I need some wine. Start shopping elsewhere. It will obviously be better for you mentally and only further drives home your point of not interacting with someone who is involved in an affair.
Dont sell your ring, you are still indeed married. Unless you have some super fancy ring the guy's ring isnt worth much anyway. If you get back together you'll be glad you kept the ring. If you dont, then wouldnt busting it with a hammer AFTER you are divorced serve you better than whatever small amount of money you might be able to get for it?
Having a spouse leave is hard for anyone, toss in the loss of your mom and you've been dealt a really unfair hand.
Other than the stopping by her work and how you handled the Christmas decorations I think you've done a great job. Keep it up and enjoy spneding alot of time with your daughter over the holidays.
First time I've posted to you P17 but I have been following your story. I'm sorry for what you've gone thru, all I can say is I've been there and done that and it WILL get easier with a little more time.
As DBD said the other day, it will get worse before it get's better. It was bad the last few days but today things have picked up, however I do know why (see next post) and I'm not altogether happy with it.
My one bit of advice is to stay away from your wife's job. I thought it was a bad idea before the OM started working there. If you are doing no contact, then stick to your guns and mean it. I dont know if you are going into the store just to try to prove you are doing ok or what. You've asked your wife to not contact you. So why is it ok if you go into her job? No contact means NO CONTACT...not no contact unless I need some wine. Start shopping elsewhere. It will obviously be better for you mentally and only further drives home your point of not interacting with someone who is involved in an affair.
I quoted all of that because it is relevant. I read this post this morning. It's not 10.42pm here and I'm just replying as I have been digesting it all day.
I went back and read the bit in DR about LRT again. You're right. Going dark means actually going dark. No contact doesn't just mean no communication, it means NO VISIBILITY. I disappear off the radar, vanish, gone. No more going into her work at all. I was thinking I could go in after she finishes but again, no. This isn't what NC is about.
The only problem with this I have is that the store where she works has a lot of things I simply cannot get anywhere else and if it's an emergency I have a problem. If it's just normal goods, D's mum said she would go (and in fact went tonight for me). I will just need to play this by ear.
Dont sell your ring, you are still indeed married. Unless you have some super fancy ring the guy's ring isnt worth much anyway.
It's not actually about the money, it's more the symbol of it going.
If you get back together you'll be glad you kept the ring. If you dont, then wouldnt busting it with a hammer AFTER you are divorced serve you better than whatever small amount of money you might be able to get for it?
Perhaps. I will see how I feel on the D day.
Having a spouse leave is hard for anyone, toss in the loss of your mom and you've been dealt a really unfair hand.
Awaiting disaster number three ...
Other than the stopping by her work and how you handled the Christmas decorations I think you've done a great job. Keep it up and enjoy spneding alot of time with your daughter over the holidays.
Thanks Sakaro.
Can I ask how you think I handled the Xmas decorations badly? I felt this was a 180 for me. I also think this was also the start of the W moving on / going dark / NC / whatever you want to call it.
I've got two threads running - on in Newcomers and one here. The one in Newcomers is about help with my plan, goals and where I got from here. This one is about W, life and me.
Small update.
Dad calls me today. W has sent him a condolence card and a letter. He was incredibly angry and the letter which he calls arrogant and started having a go at me to tell me W never to contact him again etc. I get him to calm down and by the end of the call he has apologised. No harm done, we're all emotional at the moment.
I asked him what the letter said and he read me two sentences - I told him just to send it to me with the card and I'll put it with the other stuff that is here. I am gathering a portfolio of stuff in case W thinks she can cite me for harassment (I sent her a rose before, and because of the sitch, told her I had done it and couldn't cancel it - she mentioned to one of our mutual friends that it was harassment even AFTER she texted me to thank me for sending it .... ahem ... anyway I digress). The sentence that got his blood up was:
'I am sorry for the delay in contacting you but I have only just been informed'
The informed bit is what annoyed him. Very formal. Very arrogant and while it's difficult to read anything into one word, I actually agree with him.
Maybe reading too much into it but for W this isn't what she'd normally say. Don't know. I get the impression maybe she thought she had a right to be informed.
Anyway, not reading anything else into a word. Just updating the journal. Will see the entire letter when it arrives.
They go all formal. Business like. It removes emotions from their words. But still they do the actions. Its rather ironic if you look at from the 10k level.
She still took the time to get and send a card.
But then she goes business like in the card. She F(*D up and burned a huge bridge. But her timeline is completely screwed up and she just does it. I find these things that the walk away does very interesting. 2 seperate people.
Bizzaro land. Did it go out on a thursday ?
They go all formal. Business like. It removes emotions from their words. But still they do the actions. Its rather ironic if you look at from the 10k level.
That's it exactly. It removes emotions from their words! Business like speak is also a 'power speak' or 'control speak'. Yet again, if that is correct, they are seeking to exert power and control over the situation.
She still took the time to get and send a card.
But then she goes business like in the card. She F(*D up and burned a huge bridge.
This is what worries me. How is she supposed to 'come back' if she keeps burning all these bridges?!!?
But her timeline is completely screwed up and she just does it. I find these things that the walk away does very interesting. 2 seperate people.
What do you mean by this, particularly her timeline being screwed up?
Bizzaro land. Did it go out on a thursday ?
LOL .. I was going to call my dad by is 12.20am here so he will be in bed probably. I will tell you something though - the friend I spoke to at her work TOLD her on a Thursday ...
WTF is it about Thursday's?
OMG... Thursdays are H's days too! WTH?! Hmph... Xmas eve is on Thurs. He is harassing me about that day. I'm so glad I have my support group meetings on those nights. I always seem to need it after H's craziness.
Hey P when you wake up today. I want you to think about going to the doctor. Happy pills. Please think about it. Not a weakness. Look at what you suffered. And I know what it is like where you live. How people are. Most of the North Americas here who offer advice will not understand. You have been stronger than you can imagine. Your inner strentght has been amazing.
I am looking forward to going home next year and visiting. At least out off all of this. You found a new friend on the outside world.
You just gotta get stable. You have started such a beautiful path with your daughter. And you should lean on her mother. She has offered unconditional love. Take it. And when you do have feelings towards her. Walk away. And travel to those ruins and listen to the waves crashing. And talk to her in a week. And if she has a friend. Invite them both over for dinner. And enjoy both their company. She will help. She is the mother of your daughter. You two are forever linked. And this has given you the chance to be a father again. Take it. And enjoy it. Life is going to get very good.
I am guessing that you're thinking that I always look up in life.
Well your right. I do. A second mistake in life has given you the chance to correct the first. Hug her the next time you see her. And when you see her mother hug her as well. And let her know that you are hurting and that you need a friend. Not a lover.
And take this gift to build your friendship. A hurtful gift. But a gift.
And next year. When I go home. I will fly over. And you will introduce me to both. And I will not understand a word you say. Because you speak an english that is not english
Anyways. Things are going to get better.
Can I ask how you think I handled the Xmas decorations badly? I felt this was a 180 for me. I also think this was also the start of the W moving on / going dark / NC / whatever you want to call it.
To me it just seemed like a guy who was trying to be difficult. So much drama involved. Put her stuff in a box and drop it off at her house when you know she or Mr Wrong arent there. Send her a text once it is done. "Dropped off your half of the decorations, hope you have a Merry Christmas" That sounds a like a very strong guy who isnt letting her petty stuff or her awful choices ruin his life. That is what will bring her back.
I think there was an issue with your wife wanting to send some gifts for your daughter. I think you should let her and thank her afterward via a card. "Daughter loved the gifts, thanks!" No loves, no miss yous. Just strong, positive man getting on with his life.
Thanks Sakaro for coming back to me. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
To me it just seemed like a guy who was trying to be difficult. So much drama involved. Put her stuff in a box and drop it off at her house when you know she or Mr Wrong arent there. Send her a text once it is done. "Dropped off your half of the decorations, hope you have a Merry Christmas" That sounds a like a very strong guy who isnt letting her petty stuff or her awful choices ruin his life. That is what will bring her back.
You're right in one respect that it did seem like a guy trying to be difficult which is why it also looked like so much drama. I was really trying to make a decision that seemed like I wasn't being difficult.
Part of my problem in all of this was that when my W left she took most of the wedding presents - she took, didn't ask. She took them because her parents bought them for us (my parents just gave us a large amount of money).
The Xmas decorations were bought by her and by me and as I was the one who had the child, which is what Xmas is about, I kept all of the decorations. I did give her back the ones that were hers from when she was a child.
I had a wrestle of conscience with this as it's not what I'd normally do. I'd just normally give her the things and let it be done with. However I also determined that precisely because that is what I'd normally do, I shouldn't. For me it was a 180 - mr soppy pants decided enough was enough.
I can completely understand how it is seen as being weak and petty. I still can see it that way myself. However I can also see it as being weak and needy by giving her back exactly what she wanted. Bear in mind she had three months to pick this stuff up. She also said when she was leaving that she would pick them up later when she looked at the xmas box.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is it could look both ways, and does, to me. I made the best call I could under the circumstances.
I am starting to think that is why W is keeping the car seat now - as payment for the decorations I 'stole'. Hey ho. I can't win.
I think there was an issue with your wife wanting to send some gifts for your daughter. I think you should let her and thank her afterward via a card. "Daughter loved the gifts, thanks!" No loves, no miss yous. Just strong, positive man getting on with his life.
There was an issue, but only in here. I never told my W that she couldn't send the presents. When she told me what she was getting D for Xmas in her email, I just ignored it. I haven't spoken to my W since 23 November.
All communication goes through IM.
If I am honest, and that's one of the reasons I am here, I don't know what to do about presents. I don't want W to send them if I'm honest but I'll also be disappointed if she doesn't (see previous messages about her fighting me and standing up to me about D).
I don't want her to send them as I want D to move on with her life and, as much as she can, realise that W is no longer there for her. I don't want her presents to remind D of what she has lost in W. I also, again if I'm really honest, feel that I want to punish W for what she has done. I made a really hard decision by stopping contact with D and I have been over it again and again and again in my head as the reasons I did it. I always question myself as to if I was punishing W. The honest answer is it is probably part of it. But not punishing her as in using my daughter as a pawn, but not letting her eat cake and having to experience her fantasy life without us both.
I also want W to stand up to me, shout, yell, use swear words and tell me what she is going to do about D. I want her to go to Social Services. I want her to do EVERYTHING she can to see my D and fight for her. I don't care about her fighting for me. But I do care about her fighting for D. I would have a 1000 times more respect for her if she did. But she has lain down and accepted it.
If she does get them to me somehow then I'm not sure what I will do to be honest because of the above. I'm not going to act out of revenge or punishment though. I will TRY and act out of love. Not easy given how I am feeling but I promise I will TRY. I actually don't think she will give D a Xmas present. From the little shreds of things I see (letter to my dad, ignoring texts about D's care seat, Doctors etc.) I think she is angry. We'll see but if I have a wish on this it's that she'll stand up to me, stick two fingers up and fight for D. If anybody wants to pray for anything, pray for that little thing.
Anyway, I'm rambling now. I hope I have explained where I'm coming from Shakaro and how difficult just these little decision have been. Something as simple as what xmas decorations to give her caused a flurry of posts as I didn't know what to do for the best. The next time this happens I will have a better idea I hope. This 180 stuff is new to me.
Anyway, my new motto is 'do what is right', or from the NMMNG it's 'have integrity - do what is right not was is expedient'. That is what I will be doing from now on and that is why I have been upbeat and accepting of MIL's attempts to have contact with D.
My next thing I'm looking at is whether and when to come out of LRT.
You do not come out of LRT. Its last resort for this relationship.
You move on ... Now is not the time to make decissions. Now is the time to heal.
Go see a doctor my friend. You may need some happy pills.
Embrace the suck
You do not come out of LRT. Its last resort for this relationship.
You move on ... Now is not the time to make decissions. Now is the time to heal.
Cutter, that came out completely the wrong way above. I didn't mean actually come out of LRT for the relationship. In fact thinking about, what the h*ll did I mean?!
Go see a doctor my friend. You may need some happy pills.
Not for me. Had depression before. Took happy pills. Didn't make a blind bit of difference. I'm feeling low and more than anything else mixed up about what to do that is right, what to do for me, what to do to salvage my sanity, what to do to save the sliver of a relationship if there is one, what to do about staying here ... yada yada yada. That's my problem right now. I feel no pain or hurt right now (although that won't be long in coming back).
I will be speaking to my IC tonight.
I try. When I embrace it, it keeps grabbing my a$$ and biting my neck!
Thought I'd wait before replying to you cutter so I can digest what you said (starting to do that with everyone now rather than just replying straight off!)
Hey P when you wake up today. I want you to think about going to the doctor. Happy pills. Please think about it. Not a weakness.
Hey cutter. Never see mental illness as a weakness. Been there and done that about 10 years ago. Pills didn't work for me at the time. I don't feel I'm depressed. I feel I'm getting low spells which is entirely natural. I'm feeling a lot better today than I did yesterday (or for the last few days).
Look at what you suffered. And I know what it is like where you live. How people are. Most of the North Americas here who offer advice will not understand.
Yes, applying DB here is a little different than in the US
You have been stronger than you can imagine. Your inner strentght has been amazing.
Thanks cutter. That is really appreciated.
I spoke to my IC tonight (just back actually) and she said pretty much the same thing - that I am a completely different person than the one who came to see her back in April. Much stronger and know what I want (which I'll come to in another post).
I am looking forward to going home next year and visiting. At least out off all of this. You found a new friend on the outside world.
Looking forward to you coming over. Hopefully the weather will be good. Remember the Talisker though
You just gotta get stable. You have started such a beautiful path with your daughter. And you should lean on her mother. She has offered unconditional love. Take it. And when you do have feelings towards her. Walk away. And travel to those ruins and listen to the waves crashing. And talk to her in a week. And if she has a friend. Invite them both over for dinner. And enjoy both their company. She will help. She is the mother of your daughter. You two are forever linked. And this has given you the chance to be a father again. Take it. And enjoy it. Life is going to get very good.
The stability will come in time. Each time I have these down days / weeks I learn something new about myself. About how I'm dealing with things and about what I want out of this sitch and my life. This one has taught me a lot so it was worthwhile. I didn't hit rock bottom, maybe the next one I will and I can then build myself back up again. I'm not going to run away from feeling like this, I am going to TRY and embrace it as, if the next one teaches me as much as this one, I'll be a happier man when I come out of it. I am happier today for what I have learned the past few days.
With regards to D's mum and feelings for her. Those feelings I had were borne out of love but love for the support she had given me and for what she did for me. It's a different kind of love (something I realised today). I couldn't go back with D's mum it just wouldn't work and destroy what the last 7 years of fighting and the end of my marriage have given me - a chance at friendship. I haven't been as good as a friend to her as she has to me but I am apprehensive of opening myself up to that after what she did to me and W. It's natural to be defensive.
I am off away with D's mum and her friend for a night to the nearest big town (a 110 mile drive). We'll be staying in the same hotel room (it was cheap), buy a meal (on me) and have some drinks, maybe some dancing and a laugh. There will be plenty of FB photos to share (D's mum will make sure of that - I think she wants to make W jealous with them full of unknown women
I'll let her go and have her fun ... she is actually more involved with DBing W than I am! Anyway, she has been a good friend and I will tell her so tomorrow.
However, being friendly with D's mum will push W away but that is a different story.
I am guessing that you're thinking that I always look up in life.
Well your right. I do. A second mistake in life has given you the chance to correct the first. Hug her the next time you see her. And when you see her mother hug her as well. And let her know that you are hurting and that you need a friend. Not a lover.
She has always said that she would not be interested in us getting back together. Sometimes her actions confuse me, but maybe I should just take her at her word.
MIL did mention something on the phone about sending the presents perhaps to D's mum. That took me aback to be honest as I have NO idea why she would say that as she knows the angst, pain and hatred W and I for D's mum at one time. The only thing I can think is that EITHER she wanted to send D the presents even if I didn't want her to (but then why later ask in the call if I would MIND her sending them ...) or she thinks (or has been told) that me and D's mum are back together. I have been asked that question this very night
It's not happening.
And next year. When I go home. I will fly over. And you will introduce me to both. And I will not understand a word you say. Because you speak an english that is not english
LOL ... remember that English originated from England. We actually speak Scottish up here (and some people speak Gaelic) which is a WHOLLLLE different language.
And anyway, you're not from too far away from here so you will no doubt speak a whole alien language to me too
I'll speak slowly ...
Anyways. Things are going to get better.
I have always known that. Even when I'm down I know it will get better. It's hard sometimes to realise when you have little hope in the one thing that you really want. Sometimes you just need a few days for the mind to process the data and provide you with the result.
Send her a text once it is done. "Dropped off your half of the decorations, hope you have a Merry Christmas".
Sakaro, I've been thinking about what you said yesterday and today.
You said yesterday that I should have no contact (to the extent of not even going to W's workplace) but today you said that I should text her about the Xmas stuff.
I'm not having a go at you, but I can't think how this will sound any other way! How can you be so dark as to disappear from the radar but still text her? Surely you are either all out or all in (as PDT said to me once)?
I do however like the text about Xmas - sounds friendly, loving, caring without being anything else. I thought about texting her that anyway and then though ... wrong thing to do
P17,
Hey man, hope today is going a little better for you. I'm a little worried that drinks, dancing, the ex, a hotel room and more drinks could put you in a bad spot. But you are a big boy and I'll trust you to do the right thing. You are STILL married, just cause your wife is cheating doesnt give you a free pass.
On the no contact thing. I'm not sure I agree with the no contact thing myself, but you've played that card and will look bad if you dont stick to your word. I wouldnt contact over little insignificant things by any means. But I dont think saying thank you for your daughter's gifts, if she gets any, is a bad idea. You said you were going for the NMMNG, which I applaud 100%. That doesnt give you permission to be a jerk though.
When she begins to think she isnt getting to you...she will pull closer to you.
P17,
Hey man, hope today is going a little better for you.
Today is a lot better than yesterday thankfully!
I'm a little worried that drinks, dancing, the ex, a hotel room and more drinks could put you in a bad spot. But you are a big boy and I'll trust you to do the right thing. You are STILL married, just cause your wife is cheating doesnt give you a free pass.
Sakaro, the chance would be a fine thing! LOL
It's not going to happen. I'm with D's mum (which it won't happen with) and a married woman (who would eat me alive). It should be a good night, but nothing untowards will happen. I am not THAT appealing for one person to throw their M away and the other to throw ... well, not sure what she would be throwing away. The night should be interesting especially as these are very good friends and will be going out of their way to get as many 'photos' of mysterious ladies (their words not mine) as possible. Me? I could just use the break and the laugh.
I took my vows seriously and while I am looking at dating is for the food, wine and good company (as cutter says). Nothing more.
On the no contact thing. I'm not sure I agree with the no contact thing myself, but you've played that card and will look bad if you dont stick to your word.
That's how I feel about it. She already thinks (I would knows, but I have changed) that I keep goign back and forth - I was once called the 'hot and cold master' by MIL to W. I am trying very much to get away from that as it's my emotions ruling my decisions rather than helping me make them.
I wouldnt contact over little insignificant things by any means. But I dont think saying thank you for your daughter's gifts, if she gets any, is a bad idea.
You know I get you. The IM is for contact between us, however I don't think a from the heart text saying thank you, personally, would hurt anything at all (is there anything left to hurt!). Any response can be ignored (obviously depending on what it was - I don't want to be sucked in a conversation) so the NC, while broken, is broken for a good reason. It is Xmas after all.
You said you were going for the NMMNG, which I applaud 100%. That doesnt give you permission to be a jerk though.
You are right. Thanks for pointing that out.
I didn't think I was being a jerk until you mentioned it. I simply thought I was taking back what was mine, standing up for myself etc. Sometimes you get a little too enthusiastic with these things and you take it too far!
When she begins to think she isnt getting to you...she will pull closer to you.
We will see
D's mum has agreed to get anything I want out of W's store. That solves that problem. I did think I'd need to go in for emergencies but I think I can safely try somewhere else first!
Thanks Sakaro.
Just another update.
I went to see IC tonight and a few things came out, one which was very interesting.
My talk tonight revolved around understanding what I want now and what I am doing. I am NC, as you all know and it's going by and large pretty well for me.
I think disaster number three to befall me will be W getting pregnant. I feel this in my gut actually. However, I spoke to IC about this and I have been thinking about it for a while. Everytime I talk about it I actually feel it is nothing more than a relief feeling. A feeling that things are finally over and there will be no more hope (see later) left for the R of the M. Nothing. The rope will be dropped, cut, rolled up and burnt. Gone.
The second thing we discussed was what I want. I want to get rid of hope. Hope that the M can be recovered. I want to let go completely of the M and move on with my life. I see no hope for the M being continued. Bridges are being burned. W is doing things I never thought she was capable of. She is cold, heartless, uncaring, selfish and cowardly. That woman I don't love. The woman I did love has gone.
Tonight we spoke briefly about the W I married. I found a picture of us from a few months after we got married. W looked so different back then. Happy, relaxed, loving and smiling. My W was simply the sweetest, most caring, loving, selfless and best woman I had EVER met. She was a wonderful woman, wife, mother to my D and friend to me. She supported me through a lot (and I mean A LOT) she never ONCE complained. She was simply, the girl of my dreams. Unfortunately, that girl is gone and probably gone forever. The world is a sadder place without her.
Removing hope will let me and D move on our lives and let her move on with hers. That is a loving thing to do (and I do still love her, although I wish I didn't). That is also the best thing for me and D to do.
We then actually got down to the nitty gritty. Hope. What was it hope for. I said the above but the IC wanted to dig deeper. If I didn't want the M anymore, then why the hope?
Basically the hope, we decided, and it was the first time I've ever been hesitant in expressing my feelings, isn't hope for the M. It was for revenge. I want W and OM to break up and for her to feel the way I feel. I want to be able to say I told you so, stick two fingers up and be vindicated that she was wrong for what she did. When the IC said this, quite bluntly, I was speechless. But yes, she was actually right. It's revenge.
While I said to the IC that that simply isn't a feeling to have, she said but it's natural given the circumstances.
If I read W correctly (and I could be well off the mark) she is going out of her way to hurt me. The things she is doing, saying and posting on FB don't really make much sense to me other than to hurt me. This is a game, and without relaising it (and advising others not to do it) I'm playing it and rolling the dice too. I'm going out of my way to hurt her. This isn't right and simply cannot finish with any good results.
So, I am going to try and get over my revenge on W and let her live her life the way she wants to. I am going to TRY. This will be difficult for me. I am going to move on with my life, post whatever I want on FB, be honourable and do the right thing. At least I'm going to try.
I want to desperately lose hope / revenge. I also want to finally accept the M is over completely.
Finally, my stance has also changed with regards to W since my last visit to IC (three weeks ago). IC always asks - if W came back to you tomorrow what would you say. Throughout the visits it's gone from 'take her back', 'try again', 'take her back on my terms', 'talk and see where we get to' to, tonight, 'tell her to p*ss off'.
So that is the stage I'm at. Right now, I don't want this M anymore. I don't want W. I don't want her to get to me and hurt me anymore. I couldn't take her back and I don't want to.
Will I file for D? No, I'm not prepared for that emotionally yet. Will I file for D ever? I don't know. I have said lately that she can do the legwork on it. If the time is right for me then yes.
Separation agreement is still not here. Maybe that is disaster number three and I'm looking in the wrong place. If she wants half of 'me' then she can have it, with a fight (and it will be a dirty one as I have a few aces up my sleeve). It will be a disaster initially but I am not afraid of it as that will be a whole new chapter in my life (moving away).
I'm sad. I'm happy. I'm committed to me and D. I'm still struggling emotionally. I feel good today and I'm, still trying to figure out what it was that helped. I know it won't last forever and I will be embracing the bad days.
I still maintain the opinion that W has her head up her a$$ and it may never come out of there. However, if it does, I don't want to be around.
My M is over. Long live M.
P, I am here on the pity party express. Cutter, I am borrowing your style and posting lyrics:
They say misery loves company
We could start a company and make misery
Frustrated, Incorporated
Well I know just what you need
I might just have the thing
I know what you'd pay to see
Put me out of my misery
I'd do it for you, would you do it for me
We will always be busy making misery
We could build a factory and make misery
We'll create the cure; we made the disease
Frustrated, Incorporated
Frustrated, Incorporated
Well I know just what you need
I might just have the thing
I know what you'd pay to feel
Put me out of my misery
All you suicide kings and you drama queens
Forever after happily, making misery
Did you satisfy your greed, get what you need
Was it only envy, so empty
Frustrated, Incorporated
Frustrated, Incorporated
Frustrated, Incorporated (put me out of my misery)
Frustrated, Incorporated (I'd do it for you, would you do it for me)
Frustrated, Incorporated (forever after happily)
Frustrated, Incorporated (making misery)
P, I am here on the pity party express.
And there was me thinking I was waiting at the doors to get off!
Anyway, thank you for the lyrics. I particularly liked:
Frustrated, Incorporated (put me out of my misery)
Frustrated, Incorporated (I'd do it for you, would you do it for me)
Frustrated, Incorporated (forever after happily)
Frustrated, Incorporated (making misery)
Oops, looks like you got off the train at the last stop (just in time for Christmas?) I will do my best to get off at the next one!
Hey P. Great new pictures.
Are you having a good day.
My nephew came over last night and we watched a star trek movie. Generations. I had a good night with him.
Take care.
And talk to you later today.
The second thing we discussed was what I want. I want to get rid of hope. Hope that the M can be recovered. I want to let go completely of the M and move on with my life. I see no hope for the M being continued. Bridges are being burned. W is doing things I never thought she was capable of. She is cold, heartless, uncaring, selfish and cowardly. That woman I don't love. The woman I did love has gone.
She cant undo what has be done. You have to ask yourself if cheating is a dealbreaker. I thought for sure there was no way I would stay with someone who cheated. But when it really happens to you all the rules change. How it impacts your finances, your child's life etc. all change the equation that once was just so simple. If cheating was a absolute dealbreaker for you then you wouldnt be posting on a message board aimed towards saving your marriage, would you?
It was for revenge. I want W and OM to break up and for her to feel the way I feel. I want to be able to say I told you so, stick two fingers up and be vindicated that she was wrong for what she did. If I read W correctly (and I could be well off the mark) she is going out of her way to hurt me. The things she is doing, saying and posting on FB don't really make much sense to me other than to hurt me. This is a game, and without relaising it (and advising others not to do it) I'm playing it and rolling the dice too. I'm going out of my way to hurt her. This isn't right and simply cannot finish with any good results.
The one you trusted most in your life screwed you over. I think the thought of revenge is only natural. It is still very early in your situation but right now you have centered this whole experience about her. "I want her to feel how I feel", "What is she thinking", "How will she react"? That is why your goal now is to detach. She doesnt even know what she is thinking right now, so then how in the world are you supposed to figure it out when she cant? I hate to burst your bubble but I will come right out and say it, I dont think your wife is doing things to intentionally hurt you. I dont think your wife is giving you much thought at all right now. I think she is doing something that is so out of character for her that she is trying to justify why it is ok for "someone like her" to be doing "what she is doing".
I still maintain the opinion that W has her head up her a$$ and it may never come out of there. However, if it does, I don't want to be around.
No doubt she isnt thinking right. Either are you. That is why you should be having no contact(or I think very little contact) with her. Try to enjoy your Christmas P17. Try to turn off your mind for a few days and just enjoy spending time with your little one.
Hey P. Great new pictures.
Are you having a good day.
Yesterday was good. Night out with D's mum and her friend. Had a good time and for the first time in ages, was dancing!
How's things with you today - Xmas Eve and all that?
She cant undo what has be done. You have to ask yourself if cheating is a dealbreaker. I thought for sure there was no way I would stay with someone who cheated. But when it really happens to you all the rules change. How it impacts your finances, your child's life etc. all change the equation that once was just so simple. If cheating was a absolute dealbreaker for you then you wouldnt be posting on a message board aimed towards saving your marriage, would you?
Cheating is not a dealbreaker for me at all. As you said I wouldn't be here posting otherwise. The dealbreaker is her erasure of the last 7 years of her life, me and D. That is the big dealbreaker but I am also coming to terms with why she has done this so maybe it won't be a dealbreaker after all.
The one you trusted most in your life screwed you over. I think the thought of revenge is only natural. It is still very early in your situation but right now you have centered this whole experience about her. "I want her to feel how I feel", "What is she thinking", "How will she react"? That is why your goal now is to detach.
Other than the 'how will she react' (as I no longer care about that), you are correct. Everything has been centred on her - she is doing this and that, what is she doing etc. etc. etc.
I felt several times that I am detaching from her but I then fall back into again. I have felt for the last little while now I am detaching. Maybe it was my lo point last week that started it all. I don't know. Maybe this is just another episode and I'll 'attach' again. I'll just play it be ear, go with the flow, ride the wave ...
She doesnt even know what she is thinking right now, so then how in the world are you supposed to figure it out when she cant?
I actually think she knows exactly what she is doing. I believe her head is up her a$$ but she acts with such cool and calm coldness that it's difficult to think she is not in control on the outside.
I hate to burst your bubble but I will come right out and say it, I dont think your wife is doing things to intentionally hurt you. I dont think your wife is giving you much thought at all right now. I think she is doing something that is so out of character for her that she is trying to justify why it is ok for "someone like her" to be doing "what she is doing".
I think Sandi2 or Bluerain said something similar a while ago. Maybe she isn't doing anything to hurt me. Maybe she is just living her life. If she is doing that, and doesn't give me or D a second thought then I would rather she actually just left us both alone completely.
No doubt she isnt thinking right. Either are you. That is why you should be having no contact(or I think very little contact) with her. Try to enjoy your Christmas P17. Try to turn off your mind for a few days and just enjoy spending time with your little one.
I don't think I am thinking clearly. I think I am thinking clearer. But still not clearly about a lot of things. No contact is still in place.
I am just back from an overnight away and my head was turned off - right up until we got back and there was a text from W to D's mum. See next post.
I will enjoy Xmas. I hope you and everybody else on here does too.
Update.
Was on a night out last with D's mum and her friend for a final bit of shopping a meal and a few drinks. Went well. First time I've actually been out and up dancing in along time ...
Got back at 3am to a text from W to D's mum. It was along the lines of 'Ive emailed P and got no response. Can I drop off D's Xmas presents to you tomorrow morning - I am working at 11am'.
I was going to make the comment about 'no response' from me, but I've said this a thousand times that I told her I didn't want contact (and I haven't broken it) so she just isn't going to ever get that bit. She does want to drop them off at D's mums and not here.
Asked her today just to tell W that she can drop off presents. I will text W tomorrow, tell her D loved the present, thank her for it and wish her a Merry Christmas. That breaks NC but I think it is the right thing to do (which is what I am really trying to do just now - do the right thing and not act out of emotions). I won't be doing any more follow-up with her or getting involved in a conversation or anything else. One text. End of story.
I also have a card and present for W's best friend and her little boy. I will be dropping that off later today. Also the right thing to do.
I'm sorry we're all here at all and this forum is necessary but I'd rather be here with my sitch than on my own with it!
Anyway, Merry Christmas to everybody!
Do not send that text.
Come at you with anger.
Come at you with sweetness.
Each one is to break contact.
Just ignore. That is the right thing to do.
No Contact is No Contact.
If needed tell IM it was a nice gift. Tell MIL it was a nice gift. Do not tell them to mention it. Just say it on passing.
One of them will tell WAS.
Message delivered. No Contact kept. You did the right thing.
I agree with Cutter...your IM is there for a reason! W will hear the thank you through IM. If you play "dark" you must follow the rules.
So are you open to letting your W see your D if she pushes? I thought I remember reading that.
Merry Christmas, P!
I agree with Cutter...your IM is there for a reason! W will hear the thank you through IM. If you play "dark" you must follow the rules.
So are you open to letting your W see your D if she pushes? I thought I remember reading that.
Merry Christmas, P!
Here we go again
Around the emotions route we go ...
Newmama - I'm not open to letting W spend time with D yet. She consistently displays bad judgement, disinterest and is not a role model for my D. That may change in the future, but for the time being that's my stance.
Another update (all I seem to be is have updates)!
D's mum was in the shop with D and W was working. I have said to D all along that if she wants to speak to W, wave at her or whatever she can and I would not stop her (D was stopped from doing that with both W and me during the 7 years we fought to see her and I am NOT going to do it to her again).
Anyway, she went up to talk to W and W told her that she had a present for her but she couldn't give it to her because mummy hadn't texted her back ...
D is now very upset because she misses W. I don't think it's actually so much the present, just she misses her. Will need to rethink my sitch about NC with D now too. Although D is less likely to speak to her in future as she has been upset so she may feel better knowing that she has made that decision and not been told by Daddy.
WTF kind of thing is that to tell a kid on Xmas Eve? Yeah. I have a present for you but you can't get it because mummy and daddy are being mean to me? Drop the effing thing off at the door and walk away ... (you can do that kind of thing up here in fact many people don't actually lock their doors here when the go out - yes it's true).
I'm not annoyed. I'm not angry. It's just another WTF to add to the 'My WAS Bag Of Confused Moments'.
The reason ... what cutter said ...
Come at you with anger.
Come at you with sweetness.
Each one is to break contact.
She came at with sweetness (sort of and indirectly) asking if she could drop presents off. Now she came at me (again indirectly) with anger by using D ...
Not sure what to do now. Will figure it out by doing what is right.
Bot of you mentioned that I shouldn't send the text ... I'm now wondering which one (or both)? The initial text saying it was okay to drop off presents or the second one wishing her a Merry Chirstmas?
The right thing to do is take the higher ground, send the text about the presents and that she can drop them off and forget about her petty games.
WTF kind of thing is that to tell a kid on Xmas Eve? Yeah. I have a present for you but you can't get it because mummy and daddy are being mean to me?
It is petty and selfish.
Why do you have to text her? Why can't IM relay the message?
WTF kind of thing is that to tell a kid on Xmas Eve? Yeah. I have a present for you but you can't get it because mummy and daddy are being mean to me?
It is petty and selfish.
Why do you have to text her? Why can't IM relay the message?
I wasn't going to text her. D's mum was as W texted her. I haven't texted her since NC. It's clear that W doesn't like going through IM - that doesn't make any difference to me but she doesn't even know IM (so it's not as if they have a history).
It's Xmas. I actually can't be bothered with this 'soap opera' anymore to be honest! Tired of this 'drama' and I AM turning into a 'drama queen'. I will do what is the right thing to do. She can do what she thinks the right thing to do is. I'm ignoring her. She can drop them off tomorrow or any other time she wants. I'm not stopping her. I have never stopped her. I just haven't replied to her like I said I wouldn't. If she wants to be petty then it's on her head, not mine.
If in doubt, do nothing?
Listening to some loud music (Foo Fighters, Pink Floys and some Zeppelin - very Xmassy :)). Tidying house. Off to collect D. Get some canapes (D's mum is making!). Off to church for the midnight service and then back home again for bed and pressie opening tomorrow with D! Off to D's mum tomorrow for some Xmas dinner, DVD watching, playing with toys and the usual things. I bought a crate of wine (not for tomorrow!) so we will have a few bottles and a laugh. I will have a chaparone there so nobody need worry
heh. ladybug. Is now passing messages again through her neice and nephew. This time its a few dvd's she wants.
I told them that it ticks me off and she should stop that. As it places them in an uncomfertable position. They said they both did not want to relay messages. So I said. Next time she says that to you. Say NO.
heh. ladybug. Is now passing messages again through her neice and nephew. This time its a few dvd's she wants.
I told them that it ticks me off and she should stop that. As it places them in an uncomfertable position. They said they both did not want to relay messages. So I said. Next time she says that to you. Say NO.
Well as the song says ...
So this is Christmas
And what have you done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
And so this is Christmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear ones
The old and the young
(
http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/happychr.htm)
Funny how she wants DVD's back at this time of year? A way of getting in touch with you indirectly? Make you think of her?
What is it Puppy says ... embrace the suck!
From P who is in an exceptionally good and determined mood (and there is no alcohol involved - I'm driving). Off to deliver some presents ala Mr Claus style. Need to get dressed up first though as you can't confront enemy intelligence without looking your best!
Hey cutter and newmama--
Thanks for the invite over to infidelity land. Not the place that anyone wants to be!
I'm looking for your threads on LL, but can't find it. I do have the book, and as I have a bazillion hours of travel between here and my sister in NM, I will have read every book recommended on this site by the time I get back.
Yes, sometimes these boards are too hard. I spend a lot of time here; sometimes it is supportive; other times I get more depressed.
Still struggling with the proper 180, as you know. We are NC just because that's how it is...neither has anything to say to each other.
I went with cutter's advice to not contact X about going away over the holidays. I contacted the tenants and told them to be sure to call the service men/contractors in case of emergency. And I called the servicemen/contractors and told them to handle all emergencies. Didn't even list X's phone # on the contact info.
I am out and about and busy, and even beginning to have a morsel of fun while doing things. (instead of just slogging through them in a depressed but I'm doing this sort of way)
I'm supposed to go to the bar tonight with a friend from rescue, but am still too freaked out that X and OW will go there tonight. Have GOT to get past that.
Also--I feel like this isn't an "affair." I feel like he left one relationship and entered another. I am just off the books, gone away, of no account. So, other than doing the DB things FOR MYSELF, I feel like there is no DB to be doing that would R the the relationship.
But--you all have families and Christmas traditions that are upended and very very hard to get through right now, and my problems are pretty minimal compared to that.
So to all of you with children and Christmas--I wish you all the peace and blessings you can find at this difficult time.
Next Christmas will be better.
Its in newmama's thread. Last few pages. It seems P's , newmama, and my threads have all kind of woven togheter. Good to see ya girl. I gotta find something to do tonight as well. No kids here either.
Enjoy your trip.
Hey cutter and newmama--
Thanks for the invite over to infidelity land. Not the place that anyone wants to be!
We have better rollercoasters.
Infidelity land. Building bigger and better rollercoasters since the dawn of humanity. And we have a dropzone as well
Update.
Dropped off a present for W's friend's son. She is a nice girl.
Ended up staying there for just over 2 hours chatting about life, babies, and of course W. Told her a few home truths about her friend that maybe I shouldn't have. The girl is so easy to talk to it's difficult to not get carried away. However I did tell her that it was over between me and W and that the marriage is dead. I also made it clear that if W was not going to be D's step-mother anymore, then she needs to leave us alone.
Friend was very supportive on me stopping contact with D. She has a 6 year old boy. She basically agrees with everything I have done. She disagrees with W's Facebook stuff.
There is stuff going on in the background - she let that slip but didn't elaborate and changed the subject.
She gives me the impression there is no chance of any reconcilliation. W has moved on completely with her new life. She kept telling me it was good that I had come to terms with it all being over. The last time I spoke to her she was saying maybe the time apart is what we needed ... change of stance there.
I also had the full story from D about what W said to her earlier:
1. D said she missed W and W said she missed her too but mummy and daddy wouldn't let her see her.
2. She couldn't let D have her present as mummy hadn't texted her.
W is using D as a pawn against me and D's mum. It will backfire on her and I hope she stops doing it for her and D's sake.
It hurts again to hear that W has moved on but I obviously knew it anyway.
Friend also hasn't seen her much as W is working a lot and spending all her other time with OM (as expected). She also said that W said she had been unhappy for a while (more script).
It was a good talk. I GAL'd, did 180's, talked about me and friend said that I seemed a lot happier.
The most important bit for me, and the bit I hope is passed on is that I want me and D to be left alone.
Just an update, nothing more. Tired. Off to bed now. Santa will be here soon ...
The girl is so easy to talk to it's difficult to not get carried away
.
Haha! I have this quality as well...can get anyone to open up!
She gives me the impression there is no chance of any reconcilliation. W has moved on completely with her new life. She kept telling me it was good that I had come to terms with it all being over.
P, I HAVE to remind you that in the big picture, these few months are nothing. Just based on the stories I have read! If you want it to be over, fine. But seriously, it is too soon to tell. Sorry to throw optimism at you but the OM is nothing compared to you!!! She WILL realize this eventually.
Hi Newmama,
I love your optimism and I wish I had it. But then maybe not having it is a good thing!
I have optimism and pessimism all in the one day. Feeling good though. Today has been fun. Had a good xmas day. Had a good xmas dinner. Had good presents (until somebody bought me 'Release the beast' thong .. anybody that watches Scrubs have a look at Todd ... you know what I got).
Anyway.
No idea if W will come around. Hate to disagree with you Newmama but I do. I think that may well be my protection mechanism cutting in, however I am trying very hard not to care. Whatever W and OM get up to is their business.
I have YET AGAIN heard more stuff about yesterday.
W was cuddling D while D was crying and W was telling her she loved her (didn't hear that before) and while blaming me and D's mum for stopping contact. Quite annoyed at W, but hey ho it's D's decision whether to speak to her or not.
I also asked D to speak to MIL this morning and she did so for about 15 minutes (which is unusual for D - she will either speak to you all day or for 5 seconds - no in betweens!). MIL texted me after thanking me for the call and saying she enjoyed speaking to D and offering her fondest regards for Xmas - to be honest this threw me! Didn't think I'd get that from MIL. Anyway, I responded saying hope to see her in 2010.
W tried to call me this morning but I was in the shower. I do have software on my phone to reject calls from W, however I missed a digit (I put a 5 instead of a 7)! I can guess why she was calling but she didn't leave a message, call back or leave the present with me or D's mum. She could easily have dropped the present off or otherwise got it to us very easily. She chose not to do that. That was her choice. I still hold the view that she is trying to use D against us (ie. 'your mum and dad are stopping me seeing you')
Had a good day. Hope you all did too.
I still hold the view that she is trying to use D against us (ie. 'your mum and dad are stopping me seeing you')
It sounds like your W feels guilty and is blaming you so she looks less like the bad guy!
W was cuddling D while D was crying and W was telling her she loved her (didn't hear that before) and while blaming me and D's mum for stopping contact. Quite annoyed at W, but hey ho it's D's decision whether to speak to her or not.
I missed something...when were they together?
Glad you had a good day, P! Mine was 80% good!
It sounds like your W feels guilty and is blaming you so she looks less like the bad guy!
She's been doing that since day 1 with stories of the A (which wasn't an A apparently). Now it's using my D. I have it under control though, at least I feel a do. Time will tell.
W was cuddling D while D was crying and W was telling her she loved her (didn't hear that before) and while blaming me and D's mum for stopping contact. Quite annoyed at W, but hey ho it's D's decision whether to speak to her or not.
I missed something...when were they together?
On Thursday when D spoke to W in the store. It was just more stuff I heard tonight. I keep having to piece together little bits of stories from different places. Just continue to be flabergasted (now there is a word I haven't heard in a while!) at the situation. W is simply not getting the message to leave us alone.
Glad you had a good day, P! Mine was 80% good!
Your thread is next on my list!
Another mini update.
Got two calls this morning. One from an Unknown number (which is unusual for my mobile and on Boxing Day!) and one from W's friend (the one I visited with a present for her son on Xmas Eve).
Unfortunately (or fortunately) I am a tad hungover today with Xmas festivities to was in bed and didn't want to answer. The strange thing is that the calls were about 10 seconds apart. I thought maybe it was W trying to speak to me again about D's present. No voicemail was left again - no point I suppose ion leaving one, emailing me or texting me as I just ignore them. If she speaks to me at least she can't ignore me!
I wonder if you are right about the unknown number...if it was W. WHy doesn't she just drop off the gift at your door? Why call you? Why do you think? I could see it as being she is sick of going through IM and hoped she could just call you directly by catching you off guard with the blocked number. Maybe she was hoping to wish you a Merry Christmas too?
In my thread, you talked about the fact that NC might make it easier for some WSs who don't like conflict like your W to carry on without their A because they think you have moved on and on the other hand they don't want to fight for the M if they think you are done with it.
The thing about it is that I look back to my dating days; if I wanted to date someone and hadn't heard from them, I did not give up on contacting them. But the same happened in reverse...the guys that wanted to date me persisted on calling even if I didn't return a call (was busy or something--not playing games). If I flat out said "sorry, it's not working out" they stopped calling. Same for me if the guy said it to me.
So when NC is arranged with either a letter explaining the conditions for contact (reconcile or end the relationship) or no letter at all, this seems to be the same message as someone just not returning your call. If NC was arranged after BS said "I am done. Idon't want to hear from you ever again." Then I could see the conflict avoidant/weak WS thinking "okay, the BS really is over me. I won't ever bother going back or asking to R."
I wonder if you are right about the unknown number...if it was W. WHy doesn't she just drop off the gift at your door? Why call you? Why do you think? I could see it as being she is sick of going through IM and hoped she could just call you directly by catching you off guard with the blocked number. Maybe she was hoping to wish you a Merry Christmas too?
LOL ... sorry newmama. A woman who didn't even send me a condolence card for my mum isn't wanting to visit me to wish me a Merry Xmas!
She isn't going through IM as I asked her to. That's about control IMO (ie. I'm not listening to P, I will do my own thing).
She won't drop the gifts off at the door. That's about controlling D.
She is trying to call me (two days in a row) so that she can ask if it's okay to give D the presents. That is also about control and her 'appearance' in D's mind.
If I say to her on the phone it's okay to give D the presents. She wins and looks good to D.
If I say to her no on the phone to give D the presents. She wins and looks good to D (and also we look bad).
Either way she can't lose.
The only way to get out of it is to not do anything and put the onus on her to get the present to D. MIL did it easily enough. She can do it too. Now her 'appearance' in D's mind is actually on her own shoulders and has nothing to do with mum or dad ...
So when NC is arranged with either a letter explaining the conditions for contact (reconcile or end the relationship) or no letter at all, this seems to be the same message as someone just not returning your call. If NC was arranged after BS said "I am done. Idon't want to hear from you ever again." Then I could see the conflict avoidant/weak WS thinking "okay, the BS really is over me. I won't ever bother going back or asking to R."
Before I sent the NC letter, I said to W that the M was over, I had a narrow escape and didn't want her back. Then I sent the NC letter about 6 weeks later. I told her friend the other night that I had moved on with my life and the marriage was dead. I also told her though that if W doesn't want to be D's step-mum then she should leave us alone. I did reiterate that several times. So to me, I am saying marriage is dead but we can still reconcile (which makes sense to us I think but probably not to WAS's). Not sure if that is a mixed message or not.
My thinking is that W has moved on anyway so won't care about any of that. Friend was very supportive of me moving on and encouraging. She gave me the impression and almost let slip that there are things going on in the background. Engagement? Babies? The impression I got was it was something big. However she also gave me the impression that she didn't know other small stuff such as OM working in the same store as W etc.
As has been said in here a few times, W is moving on with her life and is unlikely to be giving me or D a second thought at all (it's Xmas so that may be slightly less true than normal but normal service will resume in a few days). So not sure how to be dealing with things just now. Looking for a break after all the 'drama' and really just to be completely left alone by W until she removes her head from her a$$. Friend agrees with me about what I did with NC and has explained that to W (and she has clearly completely ignored her) but hopefully it will filter down again.
I see what you mean about why she would probably call!It makese sense unfortunately. P, do you feel your muscles ripping through your shirt? You are seriously staying so strong at this NC business!!
I also told her though that if W doesn't want to be D's step-mum then she should leave us alone.
W is not leaving you alone. just stating facts; not being optimistic.swear.
So to me, I am saying marriage is dead but we can still reconcile (which makes sense to us I think but probably not to WAS's). Not sure if that is a mixed message or not.
it is messy-
We must state things in simple and direct terms with foggy WASs!!
But your letter was really direct and strong! Short and to the point! She got that letter and you've barely wavered in NC; actions keeping true to your words in the letter.
Friend was very supportive of me moving on and encouraging. She gave me the impression and almost let slip that there are things going on in the background.
big deal--does not raise any concern to me on outside looking in.
So not sure how to be dealing with things just now. Looking for a break after all the 'drama' and really just to be completely left alone by W until she removes her head from her a$$.
Same here...could really use a break at least. But NC will only offer you protection as long as THEY leave US alone.
Hey P tried your number again. Did you get my message.... Its 2:40AM here..
Same here...could really use a break at least. But NC will only offer you protection as long as THEY leave US alone.
No kidding in my stitch i was doing great! had the thoughts but in general i was so much better with NC but once W made contact again.. and again ect... it sent me right back to about square one
because we have kids the judge allowed this.. infact dispite the trouble W has caused at my home and my pref. of all exchanges done at the co. dept. the judge allowed her to have exchanges here wtf???
Hey P. You sound better. Found the ground again.
Good to hear myfriend.
I see what you mean about why she would probably call!It makese sense unfortunately. P, do you feel your muscles ripping through your shirt? You are seriously staying so strong at this NC business!!
LOL ... not really! I just have no desire to contact her at all. I know what it will do to me and I am shying away from it IYSWIM.
My W unfortunately forgets what I've been through. This 'game' she is playing with D, her emotions and me, she cannot win. I have been playing this game of 'using your D as a pawn', off and on, with D's mum for 7 years. I am WAAAY more advanced in the game than she is. I think she has unfortunately forgotten that.
W is not leaving you alone. just stating facts; not being optimistic.swear.
It's guilt I think that is keeping the tie there with D. Nothing more. Then again maybe she just can't bear to finally drop the rope on D ... no idea.
Heart is catching up with head so all hope is going, slowly, but it's going. That is a good thing for me. I don't want the hope anymore.
it is messy-
We must state things in simple and direct terms with foggy WASs!!
I know. And I was relaying it through a third party so Chinese Whispers will be part of it now too!
But your letter was really direct and strong! Short and to the point! She got that letter and you've barely wavered in NC; actions keeping true to your words in the letter.
It has been really hard at point and really easy in others. As I've said before though I think it will push W away rather than bring her back in, but it has been really good for me and I don't regret it.
big deal--does not raise any concern to me on outside looking in.
It does for me unfortunately but there is nothing I can do about it so I'm trying hard (and not always succeeding) not to think about it.
Same here...could really use a break at least. But NC will only offer you protection as long as THEY leave US alone.
I am my own worst enemy too though as I keep listening to people. See next post for an example of that!
@cutter - thanks. I don't feel better today but that is probably the hangover - Xmas parties and nights out will kill me! This coming from a guy who rarely drank alcohol at all.
Small update.
W has now made her FB account private. No further 'attempted' contact from her since Boxing Day. Presents haven't been dropped off for D anywhere either.
I assume that W has spoken to the friend I did on Xmas Eve and she had made her aware of her FB account being public. She will also no doubt have told her than I wanted W to leave me and D alone. So I assume there will be no further contact.
This is what I wanted all along as I know I NEED it. It still hurts a little when I think about it. No 2x4 needed just trying to be honest about both sides of my feelings.
No 2x4 needed just trying to be honest about both sides of my feelings.
No 2x4 to be given. Better to be honest than to lie just to avoid a 2x4.
Kevin
Hi P I had a gloat post on my thread
U sound like you have started to row again P.
Hey cutter,
I saw your post. Some good positive news for once! I remember the lift it gives you!
Not sure if I've started to row. I have picked up the oars though and desperately trying to remember what they are for
I'll get there ...
I have picked up the oars though and desperately trying to remember what they are for I'll get there ...
Ahhh....humor! It looks very good on you.
I have picked up the oars though and desperately trying to remember what they are for I'll get there ...
Ahhh....humor! It looks very good on you.
Sandi, not sure if that is sarcasm or not ?
Try wacking the water with them a few times... Worse comes to worse. Splash someone...
P, you are very good at being honest on this forum! (at least you tell us your feelings when good or bad)
about the facebook account...I interpreted that to mean she didn't want you to know about her..unless you request to be her friend!I don't get how you jumped to the idea she won't contact you again.
about the facebook account...I interpreted that to mean she didn't want you to know about her..unless you request to be her friend!
I don 't think she'd add me as a friend, if that is what you are meaning. I haven't seen her since 23 November and she has erased me and D from her life ...
I don't get how you jumped to the idea she won't contact you again.
The only way I could think that she 'suddenly' changed her FB account to private is because she spoke to her friend who I spoke to on Xmas Eve (who I told it was public). If that is the case then that friend will also have told her that I said 'if W doesn't want to be D's step-mum anymore then she needs to leave us alone'. I just assume if the FB thing filters down so will the comment about being left alone. That's the only reason I think it.
D's birthday is in just over 3 weeks to we'll see what happens with that.
D's mum and I spoke to her on Xmas Eve about what W had said to her about Daddy and Mummy stopping W seeing her and stopping her getting W's Xmas present. We explained we didn't stop W doing anything and that if D still wanted to speak to W she could, that was up to her.
D spoke to me yesterday and told me that she had thought about what I had said and said she didn't want to speak to W anymore because she didn't want her telling her anymore lies.
We're all getting further and further apart instead of closer.
No, I was not saying you should request to be her friend! I meant that W would only know if you were checking up on her on FB if you requested to be her friend.
My other reaction to her changing it to private is because she is feeling the need to keep her relationship with OM as private...ashamed perhaps? Lots of people are learning the truth?
But we all know the problem with mind reading!
D spoke to me yesterday and told me that she had thought about what I had said and said she didn't want to speak to W anymore because she didn't want her telling her anymore lies.
Oh, what a smart little girl you have!!
How's it going between you and D's mom?
No, I was not saying you should request to be her friend! I meant that W would only know if you were checking up on her on FB if you requested to be her friend.
Ahh. I see what you mean.
I never checked up on her (another gold star for me). Other seem to although it has been less and less now. I've actually just spent an entire day and I mentioned W once (as D's mum when she went to the shop if W was working there - that was it). Definitely a brownie point for me.
My other reaction to her changing it to private is because she is feeling the need to keep her relationship with OM as private...ashamed perhaps? Lots of people are learning the truth?
But we all know the problem with mind reading!
It could be. It could be a thousand reasons. If everything is so settled, why make it private it all unless it's to hide it from me (and why would she care what I think anyway or whether I knew or not!).
Anyway.
Oh, what a smart little girl you have!!
That she is. Sometimes too smart though
How's it going between you and D's mom?
Very well. A little too well. But that is a story for another time!
Feeling pretty low tonight.
Watched a program earlier that me and W used to watch and never finished the series of. Got to thinking that I may not see her again. Hear from her again. How she can erase 7 years of our life together so quickly. How she can change so quickly. How much of a coward she is. All of that stuff came out tonight. I'm not bad, just a little low. Will be better tomorrow.
Feel NC was the wrong thing for the relationship but the right thing for me ... NC for me is more important but I wonder what it would have been like had I continued the contact with D and I.
What to do now? Just sit and wait for the A to end while GALing?
What to do now? Just sit and wait for the A to end while GALing?
Yep. And who knows what you might discover about yourself while GALing! Tell us your GAL plans!
No, I was not saying you should request to be her friend! I meant that W would only know if you were checking up on her on FB if you requested to be her friend.
Ahh. I see what you mean.
I never checked up on her (another gold star for me). Other seem to although it has been less and less now. I've actually just spent an entire day and I mentioned W once (as D's mum when she went to the shop if W was working there - that was it). Definitely a brownie point for me.
My other reaction to her changing it to private is because she is feeling the need to keep her relationship with OM as private...ashamed perhaps? Lots of people are learning the truth?
But we all know the problem with mind reading!
It could be. It could be a thousand reasons. If everything is so settled, why make it private it all unless it's to hide it from me (and why would she care what I think anyway or whether I knew or not!).
Anyway.
Oh, what a smart little girl you have!!
That she is. Sometimes too smart though
How's it going between you and D's mom?
Very well. A little too well. But that is a story for another time!
Feeling pretty low tonight.
Watched a program earlier that me and W used to watch and never finished the series of. Got to thinking that I may not see her again. Hear from her again. How she can erase 7 years of our life together so quickly. How she can change so quickly. How much of a coward she is. All of that stuff came out tonight. I'm not bad, just a little low. Will be better tomorrow.
Feel NC was the wrong thing for the relationship but the right thing for me ... NC for me is more important but I wonder what it would have been like had I continued the contact with D and I.
What to do now? Just sit and wait for the A to end while GALing?
well I think you have read my thread and thats what mostlikley would be happening if you still made contact.
NC is very very nice for self healing but I feel that with her contacting me again it just put me back to the early parts of my stich... missing her and thinking about her every 10 min or so
it will get better as time goes on. I think you are doing the right thing though. and its most likely a long long road. however it turns out... You tried and thats more than what most people can say
What to do now? Just sit and wait for the A to end while GALing?
Yep. And who knows what you might discover about yourself while GALing! Tell us your GAL plans!
Without going into specifics, my GAL plans are to find out what I on locally and get to as much as I can that interests me. I want to be selfish for a while and do what I want to do, within reason of course. I want to put myself out there as much as possible.
All of these are complete 180's for a guy who rarely went out.
well I think you have read my thread and thats what mostlikley would be happening if you still made contact.
I went back over your thread WL. I'm sorry for the problems you're having just now. Would ignoring her not have worked though?
NC is very very nice for self healing but I feel that with her contacting me again it just put me back to the early parts of my stich... missing her and thinking about her every 10 min or so
it will get better as time goes on.
NC is good for self healing and it is working a lot better than I thought for that. However I just keep feeling it has killed any possible R for my M. I have to weigh that up though and decide whether it was better to have a chance at R or a better me. However much it pains me to say it, it is better to have a better me.
I would liked to have found out how carrying on with contact would have panned out though.
I think you are doing the right thing though. and its most likely a long long road. however it turns out... You tried and thats more than what most people can say
It's a very VERY long road and one that I don't know if I want to keep walking down or not. I feel a total fool wasting my time on the thoughts and love for a woman who has erased me and D from her life. She is moving on with her life and I don't feel I'm moving on properly with mine. I'm trying but it's hard to GAL with confidence when you know the one person you trusted completely in your life betrayed you.
That's stuff we ALL deal with though. Not just me.
Well, I have just confirmed W is no longer living with us here on planet Earth. Maybe I'm overreacting but if I know my W at all (or at least the old one) this is a biggie - although it may not seem it to you guys. Excuse the length of this post but I have been saying 'W what have you done' for the last 10 minutes and I need to know if I'm losing the plot of she has.
I was just in the attic for the winter quilt for the bed (it's pretty cold here!). Found it. Noticed an old box that I'd never seen before (since W cleared out her stuff a lot of boxes that were at the back are now at the front). It said picture frames and pictures on it. It was still sealed. Thought I'd take a look.
Well in there is a pile of pictures that W brought from her old house (she sold her house to move here). Nothing unusual in that. But my W loves her pictures. She doesn't just choose things cause they look pretty. She picks pictures of her favourite artists that depict love, attraction etc. etc. So these pictures are pretty special. Okay, maybe she missed the box but it was sitting there on it's own so it's not something she could have missed.
So maybe she just didn't look in it. Okay.
I then noticed another box. A box that is different from every single other box in the attic (and there are not many left). It's also a different colour. Stands out like a sore thumb.
Had a look inside. It is FULL of old pictures. Pictures of when she was a child. Pictures of her parents, grandparents, pack after pack after pack of photos. None of the pictures are of me or D as these are OLD pictures. My W is very attached to old pictures of her and her family. I have no idea in the world why she left this box. None at all. And she DID leave it, she didn't skip over it. It was left deliberately. There is no way she could have missed this box unless she had suddenly gone blind. WHY? Why on EARTH would she leave these photos? That makes no sense to me.
But there is more.
I open another box and another and another all around the one where the photos are. It's boxes and boxes and boxes of books. Not sure modern books that you could easily leave or chuck to the charity shop but old OLD books - books from the 40's and 50's - Gone With The Wind in hard back (in the old green cloth hardbacks before they put the covers on), self help books, lots of books about love and sex. Old OLD books.
Bascially, this is effing weird. Just strange. My W loves books (Gone With The Wind being her favourite). She loves old photos of her family. She loves painting / pictures. All of which she left. My question for somebody up there who may be listening - what EXACTLY did she take from the attic if she left the stuff that I thought was most important to her in the world?!?!?!!? At least, most important to the OLD her.
She went through the attic around 4 and a half months ago. In ALL that time she has never ONCE asked for any of that stuff. Since NC she has never once asked for ANYTHING out of the house.
I am reading nothing into this like she is coming back yada yada. What I am reading into it is that for somebody to leave the most important things in their lives behind and never once ask for them confirms with me two things 1) she has TOTALLY changed (and I mean TOTALLY) 2) she has left this planet for another.
I can MAYBE understand the pictures / paintings (maybe she is thinking I will start again with new ones). The books I can't really understand, especially the old ones as they have no memories of me or D (these books have been in packing boxes for 3 and a half years). But the photos? The photos I don't get. I REALLY don't get. She has erased the last 7 years with me and D but you cannot erase your life before now. You just can't do it. How can somebody function without any record of who they were?!?
Am I going mad and rambling about nothing or is this strange?
On the good news I found the copy of Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus that I was pestering her for (prior to NC) so it's not all bad!
P, I've seen the same with my WAH. I would have thought he would ask for those things (old family photos of his family, special books, clothing, winter coats, sentimental items), but I guess it doesn't go with the new him. ?? He has asked for new school photos of the kids though.
Funny how he told the kids I was capable of burning down the house, but he leaves those things in my possession for 8 months. Crazy talk. Guess that goes with the believe nothing they say and 50% of actions.
yep, mine did the same, she left a bunch of pictures of the kids, her old photos so so much stuff.. its sad.. she even told me to throw away the stuff she left!!! WTF? she left things that just cant be replaced ever again.. but you know its that fog. I think thats what makes it differant from just starting another R its really to the bone a fake relationship. because If it where real they would still want these things for later on in life
Me 4. Wife has no pictures, No music, No books. Just clothes , shoes and accessories. All her memories are here. Highschool, pre-school. Etc... All tossed in boxes. Awaiting for her to pick up. I guess eventually it gets tossed. I have no attachment to that stuff.
Perhaps its the guilt blinders that keep them from that stuff. As its ground. And plus who would want daily reminders of the fact your living a lie.
Me 4. Wife has no pictures, No music, No books. Just clothes , shoes and accessories. All her memories are here. Highschool, pre-school. Etc... All tossed in boxes. Awaiting for her to pick up. I guess eventually it gets tossed. I have no attachment to that stuff.
Perhaps its the guilt blinders that keep them from that stuff. As its ground. And plus who would want daily reminders of the fact your living a lie.
thats why IMOP its a hint they are lliving that lie.. although they may not want the M back when they wake out of the fog they will wish they had there past
It shows me the WSs are not in their right minds when they left! Not thinking clearly! and (am I the only one who dares say this) they want an excuse to stay in touch...gotta contact you to get the stuff back!
Hey P. Happy new year my friend. Not too much wine
I will try another phone call today... After my run. I did not sleep too much. had the weirdest dream about ladybug. We meet up and did something. Cannot remember what. But she had my camera and gave it to me and it showed me pictures of her other life. I can remember 10 or 20 of the pictures. Man what a dodgy dream. Anyways that woke me up and I did not sleep too much after that. Problem was that it was at 2AM... So I was on and off... And just stayed in bed to 10AM.
Its funny eh P. How the brain works. A constant overdrive on one issue for months. I can see how some people just shut down and give up. Good thing were strong P. Good thing were strong.
Anyways. I got your back this year. 2010. Cutter.
P.S. did you get my message on the anwsering machine. Would hate to be calling some one else
Thanks everybody for the replies. This particular issue has me sitting like a dog listening to a high pitched whistle (you know the way they tilt their head to the side as if to say 'don't get it').
You can sit there and explain this to me from now until doomsday and I simply will not get this.
I know they are all doing it but I simply don't get how somebody can walk away from their childhood life? Especially somebody like W who treasures these memories (she didn't have a great childhood). I can, however much it hurts, understand how she can walk away with no pictures of me (although she did take one of our wedding photos of me and her which didn't make a lot of sense). I can even understand why she would take no pictures of D. I cannot understand how she can abandon her childhood pictures (and as I said she didn't miss them unless she had temporary blindness). It is as if she has started a completely new life starting when she left. A COMPLETELY new life from day 1.
I went through the box of picture frames / pictures again and it's actually got a lot of newspaper articicles, programs etc. from when D was in amateur dramatics when she was younger. I mean things when she was 13 or 14 younger. When I lived with her these were all over the house (as you'd expect). Now she hasn't even taken them with her.
Very very upset at this. Really upset. Not because it reminds me of her or that I miss her or anything else. I am really upset because I really worry about a persons mind who can do that. Whether it was somebody I loved or not, it would cause me concern.
Cutter and WL - I couldn't throw these things away. I could store them and not give them to her until I felt ready but I couldn't effectively destroy somebody's memories. That's a line I couldn't cross. That little girl that my W once was needs her photos and her memories of her mum and dad and brother.
Cutter - I see what you are saying about the daily reminders of the fact you are living a lie. But you're not with these photos, books and pictures as they have nothing to do with me. They are all from WAAAY before I met W. So having them won't be reminders of them living a lie, IMO.
Newmama - the potential for contact could be right. But I think the potential, as seen in cutter's new sitch, is probably not for good and loving reasons but for control, chance to release guilt and blame shift. Once agian thought you always see the positive. I wish I had a pocket one of you!
Anyway, I don't get this. I really don't get it at all. I always thought W was actually fine, dealt with everything and had moved on without the FOG or guilt. I can now see that she is as much in the FOG as every other WAS we talk about. My wife is an alien. That is also clear now.
It's sad. It really is. That wonderful, incredible and amazing girl I married is gone. I always thought that somebody up there was smiling on me when I met W. I was being rewarded for something or being given something that would guide me in my life (and I'm not religious) but I suppose my guide was only temporary. She has got me this far, maybe the rest of the journey is mine to walk on my own.
Anyway, rambling now.
Hey P. Happy new year my friend. Not too much wine
I will try another phone call today... After my run. I did not sleep too much. had the weirdest dream about ladybug. We meet up and did something. Cannot remember what. But she had my camera and gave it to me and it showed me pictures of her other life. I can remember 10 or 20 of the pictures. Man what a dodgy dream. Anyways that woke me up and I did not sleep too much after that. Problem was that it was at 2AM... So I was on and off... And just stayed in bed to 10AM.
That is a bit strange. I had a similar dream about W this morning that involved a camera and photos (probably something to do with the fact all I thought about was her photos in the attic last night). I can remember nothing else of the dream other than she looked like the girl I married and not the one that left (the old and new W also looked as well as behaved differently) and we were still separated. Strange. I hate dreaming about her. I have done it a few times this week.
Its funny eh P. How the brain works. A constant overdrive on one issue for months. I can see how some people just shut down and give up. Good thing were strong P. Good thing were strong.
I can completely understand how people cut ties and give up too. I don't see it as strength though. I just see it as some people just can't get their head into the right state to be able to accept the sitch as it is. I don't know if I'm there yet or not. I am a lot stronger than I was when I started this (and my IC concur's).
But yeah, the brain is travelling at a 1000 miles an hour (mine always did so no change there :)) and then you slow it down, relax, analyse, accept, feel, act and all the while stay calm. At least that is the way with me. I haven't felt this clam and relaxed in a long time. In fact, since W left I have removed two medical problems from my life - one of which was psychological and the other they though was medical. Turns out both of them were psychological and the sitch was to blame!
Anyways. I got your back this year. 2010. Cutter.
Good man. I've got yours too. I'm sorry to hear that ladybug is turning up the heat as all of her other efforts to wrestle control haven't worked. I have no doubt though that you'll be able to handle it. Like a lot of WAS's when they resume contact, they don't realise who they are actually dealing with anymore. They will use those tactics that worked on the old LBS that now wash over the new one
P.S. did you get my message on the anwsering machine. Would hate to be calling some one else
I did get your message. Sorry mate I have been literally run off my feet. I'm actually about to go out and get the webcam working for our town's New Year party (I do that every year). For those of you on FB you will be able to see the link I post. I am then off to D's mum's and then the party itself. Maybe see you on the other side of 2010
I can now see that she is as much in the FOG as every other WAS we talk about. My wife is an alien. That is also clear now.
Wooohoooo! Lightbulb moment! Okay, now that you have bought into the fact that she is just like a typical WAS (having an A) maybe you will be open to reviewing the formula or the predictable path that WSs take!!
Wooohoooo! Lightbulb moment! Okay, now that you have bought into the fact that she is just like a typical WAS (having an A) maybe you will be open to reviewing the formula or the predictable path that WSs take!!
What do you mean?
my x also left stuff behind in boxes, like lots of pictures, kids pictures, us pictures. everything about the past was left behind. I even ended up with the silver, crystal, and china that was pretty much given to us as wedding presents. I dont know what I'm going to do with that stuff. when she moved out, the low blow was her wedding dress was put out on my bed. dont know if she put it there or if someone else put it there. I threw it downstairs on the floor by the back door. She grabbed it on her next trip by and growled at me that it was on the floor....why would that matter?
P, I mean that you have been saying that your W is different than the other WSs..that she won't respond to the techniques and that she is gone forever. But now that you realize she is just another WS, then you can have confidence in your NC techniques.
("NC...designed with WSs in mind..." sounds like a good tagline!)
Same exact situation here when my wife left. Just took clothes mountain bike and snowboard. Those were all things that I asked her to do with me but she never really wanted to.
Now all of a sudden she is a born again wild child. She refers to herself as a born again heathen... so strange since she was such a moral and chaste woman. All that is gone now. She left everything else. I guess this is normal???
Sad really!
my x also left stuff behind in boxes, like lots of pictures, kids pictures, us pictures. everything about the past was left behind. I even ended up with the silver, crystal, and china that was pretty much given to us as wedding presents. I dont know what I'm going to do with that stuff. when she moved out, the low blow was her wedding dress was put out on my bed. dont know if she put it there or if someone else put it there. I threw it downstairs on the floor by the back door. She grabbed it on her next trip by and growled at me that it was on the floor....why would that matter?
Not nice.
Mine left it hanging up in a closet. The only piece of clothes she did not take. I left it there.
I am sorry that this was done to you. I understand how much that hurt. I truly understand.
I get it today. Today has been HARD. A lot harder than I even imagined.
I was good last night. Didn't talk about W at all, except when D's mum referred to her as my ex-W and I corrected her. She also said again that I would take her back in a flash if she came back - corrected her again and said I couldn't. Nothing else happened.
I had a fallout with D's mum over some stuff. I felt she was disrespecting me and using me. Turns out it was a miscommunication and it's all sorted now.
However this made me realise how much of an emotional crutch I have been using her for. When I thought I had lost her (as in a friend) it terrified me. It really did. I have felt so lonely today. Really lonely. For the first time in a while I'm reminded of this empty house and me rattling about in it on my own.
Have been cleaning today. Cleaning and tidying.
I have also been getting rid of more of W's stuff. The box I filled with her reminders has been sitting in my bedroom for about 6 weeks now. I finally taped the box up. Wrote W on it and it's now waiting to go up the loft. I was going to repack it (as it was just all thrown in) but I couldn't face it. Too many memories in that box. Far too many for me to see again.
Myself and D did the traditional New Years Day walk to a local landmark. That was also a little weird today as it was me, W, D and the dog last year. Now it was me, D and her mum's dog. The walk is actually along the coast and anybody who knows anything about this part of the country and this years knows ... it's cold and windy! We did it. I took lots of photos (as is traditional) and we had a nice time.
D spoke to me a few days ago while I was at her mums. She called me aside and said that she would now like to speak to W again after she said she didn't. I said that was fine. Whatever she wanted to do, just remember what W tells her she needs to think about carefully. She was fine with that. I also told her I'd give her W's mobile number so she could text or call her. Not sure about this last bit - trying to balance up being a dad, protecting D and allowing her to keep contact and make her own choices.
I asked D today if she wanted to call W but she said she didn't. I think I secretly was trying to use D to establish contact with W as I was having a bad day. It's wrong, but I'm just being honest. I was kind of glad and disappointed (at the same time) when she said no.
I also texted MIL and FIL last night just to wish them a happy new year. They are not well so going to bed early but wished us both a happy new year too. It is actually quite nice to get back something more than a simple 'happy new year' back. I told them I was sorry to hear they were not well and wished them better health.
I find myself going to the front door 2-3 times a day to see if W has put anything through the letterbox - card, letter, something. There is never anything there but I keep checking. Sad I know.
I was hoping the start to 2010 would be a little better than it has been but it's early days. Not lapsed yet but feeling very weak and lonely today. Almost lapsed twice so far - once to drive past W's house to see if they were there and I also thought about calling / texting W to say Happy New Year ... I didn't.
So just a tough day today. My heart goes out to everybody going through this today. It's not easy.
I get D tomorrow for a week to stay with me so that will help. Off up back into the attic to put some things away and go through the rest of the boxes that are left up there so what other hidden gems W has left ...
Onwards and upwards.
P you are a good man. Same wavelenght. Yea it was the hardest night yet. And so many months later. I actually had a cry today driving home from hockey. I heard that song from the beginning of my thread. And just broke down. Good thing I was alone in the car.
Good thing is that there are only so many sad days in a year. And we both got one gone now. So 1 less for the rest of the year.
I did not think once to call or text ladybug to say Happy new year. Not once.
Those boxes will have to go one day. When you move on. You get rid of them. If you meet someone new... are you going to keep a shrine up there ???? No....
And if that day comes and she says she does not want them. Then donate them. And what does not get donated gets tossed. Not your memories. Not your stuff.
P you are a good man. Same wavelenght. Yea it was the hardest night yet. And so many months later. I actually had a cry today driving home from hockey. I heard that song from the beginning of my thread. And just broke down. Good thing I was alone in the car.
I almost broke down myself earlier while watching TV. Won't go into the whole saga but it was a Xmas special of a program me and W used to watch. I stopped myself though. Haven't had a cry in a little while now.
Those boxes will have to go one day. When you move on. You get rid of them. If you meet someone new... are you going to keep a shrine up there ???? No....
You misunderstand cutter. I have no intention whatsoever of having a shrine to her. None at all. The boxes sitting in the bedroom (3 now!?!) are all of her things that are in the house, things she has given me (t-shirts, cards, nik naks, photos) that I wanted out of here. I put them all in a box and they will now be going into the attic. I have two plans to do with the stuff in the attic - the stuff I am about to put up there will be getting burned on the day of the big D along with the wedding cake being eaten (that is now my big D cake).
The stuff that is in the attic that is personal to her (DVD's, videos, books, CD's photos etc.) will be dropped off at her parents one day when I'm down there. I'm not going to destroy her photographs and books. These are things that she had way before she met me and I have no right to damage them.
And if that day comes and she says she does not want them. Then donate them. And what does not get donated gets tossed. Not your memories. Not your stuff.
That would require communication!
If she doesn't want them I will still drop the personal stuff off at her parents. She can then take responsibility for destroying it should she need to. I'm not taking that job on.
I'm going through the attic just now and I've found so much other stuff - music, DVD's, videos ... the list goes on and on and on. It upsets me to see her stuff there, to look at her old photos and to see her again. But then this whole thing upsets and confuses me so WTF is new.
Just been reading about exit affairs ... WAS is a conflict avoider and the pattern fits. They seem much more permanent than other types of affairs.
Anybody any advice to offer in this sitch. Fed up having hope, even if it's just a thread.
What does this mean to DBing?
Patience my friend. Dark has thumbs a twittling...
Patience my friend. Dark has thumbs a twittling...
That one you will need to explain
Where did you read about exit affairs? My x hated confrontation and rotates through a big circle of friends mainly because when something bothered her,shed just rotate to someone else, then over a period of time, work her way back.
She also says she didn't leave me for this joker, yet they were screwing around while we were married and now are together, so whatever.
Patience my friend. Dark has thumbs a twittling...
That one you will need to explain
Patience + lack of panic = success.
P. I do not think it was an exit affair in your relationship.
I think it was a power based move getting back at you for not meeting her every need.
I think that this is a lesson she learned from her Mother. And it played out on a sub-consious level.
P. I do not think it was an exit affair in your relationship.
I think it was a power based move getting back at you for not meeting her every need.
I think that this is a lesson she learned from her Mother. And it played out on a sub-consious level.
Cutter I am about to go out so this is a really quick response.
Please tell me how on EARTH you figured that out? and also WHY it's not an exit affair? The longer the explanation the better for me.
I'm not asking to be pedantic, I'm asking because I feel that I could fix an non-exit affair. An exit affair seem to be kind of permanent ...
I'm asking because I feel that I could fix an non-exit affair. An exit affair seem to be kind of permanent ...
me too. I'd like to see more about this...
During the time between 2 August and 7 September we continued to live together, she stayed in my daughters room (from a previous relationship - my wife is her step-mother).
After she left I then chased her for a month between 7 September and 5 October. I sent her a rose (for which I got a thanks),
We talked for about 90 minutes about things and I was very calm, compassionate and understanding with what she had to say. I also told her that I would continue to fight for her (bad mistake). She then gave me the coffee table from her house as she had no room for it and she helped me into my house with it, sat down and had about a 20 minute chat. I went to a friends house and about an hour later I get a text from her asking me if I wanted to go to the beach with her and the dog!?!
I went to the beach and she did nothing for 90 minutes but criticise, blame me for everything, tell me she didn't want me and told me basically what an a$$ I had been and a terrible husband. I just again continued with the compassion, understanding and forgiveness.
2. I confronted her on why she told him I hit her and she stared at the floor and told me it was because that maybe she deserved to be hit for what she did. I asked her if she knew I would never hit her - she said, yeah you would if pushed. I pressed her on this and she did say I would never ever hit her and never would.
5. I am 36, my wife is 34. She hates smoking. She desperately wants children. The OP is 45 (forgive me any 45 years olds out there :-)), smokes, smokes pot (if his Facebook page is to be believed), drinks heavily, has facial hair (another pet hate of hers) and is abandons his kids (not a great father figure - this is one of the traits she loved about me that I fought for 7 years for my daughter and WOULD never have given up).
8. My wife had a history of dating married and unavailable men - father figures - before I met her. I put this down to her own father (and mother to an extent) abandoning her when she was young. I thought in me she had found somebody who could love her.
She was here on Wednesday when we spent a (fantastic fun day) with my daughter. If you didn't know we'd separated you would never have guessed, but anyway.
Thats from your first post.
Look at what happened when you dropped the rope.
She has built a very bizzare lie. And she is stubborn. She knows what the affairs did to herself. Look at her dating history. Look at her relationship with her Parents.
Look at that history. Look at what you have said was lacking in the relationship. Look at what she left. Look at what she gained.
Take an honest look.
Now that you have done that look at how you and OM fulfilled those EN's of her's for a few months. She became very vocal on the A because she thought you approved of it. But she never broke contact with you. Part of the fantasy of staying friends and your approval. But anyways... You dropped the rope. And it confused her.
Its been one month of guilt free you not around living. One month.
But you do not shy away from the truth. She does. She painted the picture that you were a horrible man. Slander ( abuse ) yet you stood up to her on this issue. She moved 500 M. from your house. Yet you gave only love and silence as a response.
She sees the developing relationship with your daughter. Something that you two did not make. But something she saw everyday. And wanted children of her own. She saw how you worked on developing that relationship again. The sacrifices. The pain. And then finally the joy.
She knows this about you. She knows you will fight for what is a part of you. Fight for the people you love.
Then she looks at her life.
Flight. Her history is not to fight but to self destruct. Take the path of selfishness. But she also knows that this will not last. And when you dropped the rope.... Well she is just begining to process this now. Give it some more time. Let her begin to miss you. Remember you are stable. You have a business. You have shown how you can overcome great hardships because it is the right thing to do. You can forgive.
I am sure when the A was going on she left little hints. Little cries for help.
And now I think she is going to follow one of two paths.
1. Keep this path of self destruct like her Mother. Out of guilt that she became what she did not want to be. Forever repeating the same mistakes because she is afaid of herself and does not know how to deal with her issues. A child in a woman's body. Grow old and unhappy because she never realized that happiness comes from within. A miscued idea of love and relationships. No relationship is happy 100% no relationship is perfect. She is probally surprised that other relationships work through issues instead of running away. Suprised that people are not selfish when their needs are not met. And she will not learn this lesson. And have a very sad and disappointing life full of blame shifting , spite and bitterness. Always finding problems and ignoring solutions.
2. She releazies her problems. But does not know how to cry out for help. Self distructs. Loses everything. But pride steps in and she remains quiet about her losses. She reaches out confused, afraid and alone. She needs to be taught what remorse really is. For she has never confronted it.
But the 2nd one is timebased.
We are moving forward. The clock is ticking. She does not realize this. Nor do I think they ever do. When she left to have the affair. She passed control over to you. The stop watch was pressed. She knows that you and D are getting along great. She knows that you and D'mom are working out your differences. So she pulls herself further into her affair. She is pushing for 100% EN's from him now. A man who could remove his family from his life. She knows this. And she knows that he can do it to her as well. She has picked this mate very well. For it is one that can be easily discarded based on what path she chooses to follow.
Cutter,
I'm actually not sure how to respond to that. I've read it several times and it's scary - scarily accurate.
I'm not sure of the path she will follow either. I do feel that whichever one it is, is without me. It's scary to think of her self-destructing and I can't help. It's scary to see her in a relationship that will have exactly the same problems as this one. You see she has major communication problems. She is a conflict avoider. I said to her many times that if I had ONE wish, just ONE wish, it would be that she could communicate with me - communicate about her FEELINGS not about her work and hobbies. She did sometimes and I would say that I am one of the very few she did do that with. He may have her eating out of his hand, I do not know. But unless she starts to open up her relationship with anybody is doomed.
My W has had many relationships. Mine has been the longest and the one that led to marriage. I think I know her well enough, and yet I feel I don't know her at all.
Let me digest what you said and come back to this post. It's thrown me a little. You spent a lot of time over it and I don't want to demeen it with a silly response.
Very insightfull Cutter, I agree that it is scary accurate and see the same thing in the relationships my XW is choosing. She is on a road to self destruction also, I am just sad to see involve my daughter
A little bit of an update and another step forward. However, cutter, you've stolen my thunder
I'm really really tired today. Only had a few hours sleep last night so this may be affecting me.
Went for lunch today with D's mum. They went into the place to get a table, I went to the ATM to get some money. When I came back I spotted them and we all sat down. Just at the other side of the wall where we sat I spotted W's friend who appeared to be leaving in a hurry. I stuck my head around the wall to make sure it was here and low and behold there is W and OM sitting less than 5 feet from us.
W's friend (this is the same friend I spoke to on Xmas Eve) made a comment about her shoes and the weather and said she had to go. I said goodbye. Within a minute W and OM had also left.
Three things about all of this were noticeable (and I'm not reading anything into them, just I noticed them). D said that W looked at her when she sat down, smiled a little and then looked abruptly away. When I poked my head around the wall and saw W she had a big smile on her face. Not sure what it was for. Just noticed it.
The third thing I noticed, and it wasn't until she actually left that I noticed this is that when I saw her I felt nothing. Not a thing. No twinge in my stomach. Not pull at the heart strings. No floods of emotions. Absolutely nothing at all. It was as if I was staring at a stranger. I did make a couple of statements about how happy adultery clearly makes you and about him being a &*^&^ (expletive obviously removed) but they didn't hear them. It was anger and hurt coming out from those statements - that somebody you had been with for 7 years can drop you like a stone in a few short months and move on so quickly - that kind of hurt.
I've been over and over this last bit in my head trying to think that maybe I didn't immediately register it was her so I felt nothing or maybe I was just angry so I felt nothing. Maybe I was just put on the spot. No idea. I know I felt nothing at all. I didn't feel the urge to leave. I didn't feel the urge to ask her to leave. I didn't feel the urge to do anything but get on with chatting away and getting my lunch.
She probably thinks that D's mum and I are back together again. This was one of the things I was keen to avoid people saying (although they have been asking, including her friend I spoke to on Xmas Eve - thinking back she did ask a lot of questions which really isn't like her - it felt a little like she was mining for info - anyway). When W saw me and D's mum today I just couldn't care less. There was no guilt. No emotion. No worry. I just didn't have it within me to care.
However, I now feel really low and I'm just not sure why. I feel a sadness again. Sense of loss. But it's different, I think, this time. It feels like something has gone. Died maybe. Not like when we first separated. This time it just feels different. An acceptance maybe? I really don't know. As I said at the start I am really tired so a lot of it may be down to that.
I'm still not ready for the Big D. I still don't have my separation agreement and I have a nagging feeling that I'm not going to get it. The clock is ticking. Feb 2 (I'm away Feb 1) the house goes on the market to be sold if I don't get the agreement. It's a little worrying as time is getting closer and closer to that date. However I am feeling more and more hate for this house and less and less urge to stay in it. I will probably sell it anyway when the time is right for me.
So here I am. Really teary, low, upset and with little idea of why. Maybe a good nights sleep will help me figure it out.
However I think I am done. I will sleep on these feelings a little while before I decide for sure.
Sad. Really really sad.
I was catching up on Cutter's thread over in Newcomers when I found this - just really puts things into perspective.
Beatles - I'm looking through you
I'm looking through you, where did you go
I thought I knew you, what did I know
You don't look different, but you have changed
I'm looking through you, you're not the same
Your lips are moving, I cannot hear
Your voice is soothing, but the words aren't clear
You don't sound different, I've learned the game.
I'm looking through you, you're not the same
Why, tell me why, did you not treat me right?
Love has a nasty habit of disappearing overnight
You're thinking of me, the same old way
You were above me, but not today
The only difference is you're down there
I'm looking through you, and you're nowhere
Why, tell me why, did you not treat me right?
Love has a nasty habit of disappearing overnight
I'm looking through you, where did you go
I thought I knew you, what did I know
You don't look different, but you have changed
I'm looking through you, you're not the same
Yeah! Oh baby you changed!
Aah! I'm looking through you!
Yeah! I'm looking through you!
You changed, you changed, you changed!
video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0_PiVNLiucMy final thoughts are these - have I know truly dropped the rope on her OR have I truly dropped the rope on the M and given up? I don't have answer - what does everybody else think?
P, of course you are upset! You just saw W and OM out together at a restaurant after the holidays!
((P17))
Ride this and I think you have dropped the rope on your (old) M but truthfully I doubt you have dropped it on her YET.
I almost didn't respond because you know me. But you did ask for opinions.
P remember that song was written by the WAS to the LBS
P. You have suffered so much. Loss of wife. Loss of mother.
I find it amazing that you are still functioning. I do not know that I could be as strong as you.
But you are pulling through.
You did well. I hope my friend that you see the light at the end of all this.
For you are truly learning wisdom and intelligence. And you freely offer it to those that listen.
And for those that do not know P. And where he lives. Just always remember its a small town. And where ever he goes he knows he can bump into her.... and him at any time. And the rumour mills just go on and on.
Truly P. You are very strong. I am very proud of you. Imagine you were dealing with this in a city of 8 million instead of 7000.
Still upset and very low today. Did get a good amount of sleep (far too much if I'm honest I didn't get up until 12pm).
Seem to be sleeping a lot which I will need to knock on the head. Also spending a LOT of time with D's mum (spent most of today there and just about to go back around). It's not uncomfortable but I am aware that this isn't normal for a platonic relationship.
P, of course you are upset! You just saw W and OM out together at a restaurant after the holidays!
((P17))
I did but that really didn't bother me to be honest. What is bothering me, and I am reading too much into this but I will say it nonetheless, is when they left. W's friend left first and then W and OM left about a minute afterwards. Everybody had finished their drinks and meal (as I saw that when I poked my head around) so why didn't they all leave together? Am I not allowed to see them together? Is it poor old P, let's not put him through it - I don't want their pity. If they had actually sat there all through my meal I wouldn't have given a stuff.
Anyway, venting there.
I think you may be right though. It is the only logical explanation as to why I feel so bad. Maybe I just saw W again and that made me feel bad as I hadn't seen her since 23 November.
I don't know. I still feel like crying. No idea why. I still feel low. No idea why. I still feel upset. Again, no idea why. I just do.
Ride this and I think you have dropped the rope on your (old) M but truthfully I doubt you have dropped it on her YET.
Why do you say that? I'm also wondering - if I drop the rope, jeez, is that it game over ... that worries me and excites me at the same time.
I almost didn't respond because you know me. But you did ask for opinions.
I did and I always welcome anything you say newmama. You are my window of optimism in all of this!
remember that song was written by the WAS to the LBS
LOL ... I didn't realise that. For me it's better that the LBS wrote it about the WAS!
P. You have suffered so much. Loss of wife. Loss of mother.
find it amazing that you are still functioning. I do not know that I could be as strong as you.
But you are pulling through.
Thanks cutter. It's not been easy at time but then it's not easy for any of us. I have tried to vent in here as much as possible in the hope that it helps others understand that their 'weird' feelings are actually normal and also for me to get it off my chest.
You did well. I hope my friend that you see the light at the end of all this.
I know I will. However the tunnel getting there is full of broken glass, holes, and rats ... reminds me of the beginning of Raiders Of The Lost Ark ...
And for those that do not know P. And where he lives. Just always remember its a small town. And where ever he goes he knows he can bump into her.... and him at any time. And the rumour mills just go on and on.
That is true. W and OM also work in the one supermarket in the town that is the easiest, cheapest and has the biggest selection of the others. So it's actually a pin to shop elsewhere.
The rumour mill doesn't ever stop here. It just rotates from one crisis to another ... there is a saying in this town, and forgive my bluntness ... you can't fart in XYZ but you'll hear about in <the next town> before you smell it ... ahem. Scottish humour.
Truly P. You are very strong. I am very proud of you. Imagine you were dealing with this in a city of 8 million instead of 7000.
I try to ... and I wish I was! The largest city in Scotland has a population of about 1 million (the entire country has a population of 5 million) and that is the city I'm from. Whenever I go back there it's like a wave washes over me to clear this nonsense from my mind.
Guys, thank you again. I really wish there was more input in all of our threads particularly from the likes of Sandi2, PDT, Gnosis, et al. We've been ostracised over here
But we're doing okay!
Well P lets go ask them to chim in all our stiches. Create a request in new commers for them to come here and give us an update and offer suggestions for improvement and what to expect next.
P.S.
You are in depression now. Look at your symptoms.
I would suggest that you set your alarm clock early starting tomorrow and get your butt out of bed and go for a good walk to get your body going. Time to fight your depression. Gal it and 180 it. Make sure you drink 7 to 10 glasses of water. Drink 1 glass as soon as you wake up. One while on the walk. One when you get back. Then drink water during the day.
Stop on the booze for awhile. I know you do not drink much. But just stop on it for a little while.
Exercise. If you start to feel down. Go out and walk it off.
Do an evening walk as well.
Fight this while you work through it.
This is a great chance to show yourself how strong you are.
P... You still have to post your reply to that super long post from the other day.
And lets now chanage the topic to D's Mom.
I am going to offer a suggestion to you.
This is going to be tough on you.
But you need to thank her for being a great mom and a great friend. Thank her for everything she has done the last few months , years in your lives. And how you look forward to seeing D. It is the highlight of your week. Life.
I would recommend you do this with a card. Well written letter in the card. And keep it on that topic. But it has to end with this below.
And then you need to tell her you need some time to process some additional grief. And you need to do this on your own.
Then you need to back off.
And take the time to lean on yourself. D's mom has been there for you. You have leaned on her. But I think you are becoming attached. This is not the time. You are not ready. I would hate to see you lose all this hard work.
Ride this and I think you have dropped the rope on your (old) M but truthfully I doubt you have dropped it on her YET.
Why do you say that? I'm also wondering - if I drop the rope, jeez, is that it game over ... that worries me and excites me at the same time.
P, I'm exploring these same feelings. I've dropped the rope on the M, and there's maybe a little string still attached to WAH. I loved cutter's description of spidery tingles, exactly how I felt yesterday when I received a TM thinking it was a nasty-gram from WAH. He still has an effect on me. But, I think the love might be gone. It's the history, the lack of closure, the betrayal that keeps me from a complete dropping of the rope. My pain is still there, but much, much less than it used to be. I'm feeling excitement about getting the pain over with and finally closing the door yet that is a scary feeling too.
You are in depression now. Look at your symptoms.
Cutter, you're right. Depression, at least mild depression. The signs are obvious and I was looking at the same conclusion before I read your post. The indicators for me are loss of hope for the future and loss of motivation. Both of these are gone just now.
I really am well and truly p*ssed off with this though. I felt great and then something as simple as seeing W again and I go all gooey and depressed. WTF? When I saw her it didn't even register. But now DAYS afterwards I feel like this? Why? Just when I think I'm actually doing well I realise it's all an illusion.
What it does do is reinforce the idea that NC was working but then is it simply putting these feelings away ready for them to be dragged out again at a moments notice when I see / hear from her again? Should I not be confronting this ... I'm tired, very tired of this. Tired of feeling like this. Tired of being the only one who is upset about this. Tired of being the one who has to 'hold it together' while W get's her cake and eats it too. Tired of sitting on the sidelines while W get's to play ball. I'm just tired.
I would suggest that you set your alarm clock early starting tomorrow and get your butt out of bed and go for a good walk to get your body going. Time to fight your depression. Gal it and 180 it. Make sure you drink 7 to 10 glasses of water. Drink 1 glass as soon as you wake up. One while on the walk. One when you get back. Then drink water during the day.
No walk (D wasn't well this morning and she is staying with me) but I was up early. She had her swine flu jab yesterday and was a little sore last night so didn't sleep. I let her sleep in this morning.
Stop on the booze for awhile. I know you do not drink much. But just stop on it for a little while.
Now Xmas / New Year is over the booze has stopped again. As you said I don't drink much anyway so it's not a problem.
This is a great chance to show yourself how strong you are.
As W always said to me - you can't sleep away your problems. When I get down, I sleep. It just shows the complete lack of understanding she had of me and our M.
Anyway, I will get through this. I know it. I just need to grab it by the b*lls, shake it a little and stand back up. It'll take a few days. I'll get there.
P... You still have to post your reply to that super long post from the other day.
I know Cutter. You know what, I'm actually scared to. I will reply today though.
And lets now chanage the topic to D's Mom.
I am going to offer a suggestion to you.
This is going to be tough on you.
<SNIP>
Then you need to back off.
And take the time to lean on yourself. D's mom has been there for you. You have leaned on her. But I think you are becoming attached. This is not the time. You are not ready. I would hate to see you lose all this hard work.
Spot on the ball as usual cutter.
I am going to back off from D's mum and I will explain to her why. I think we've both been leaning on each other. She has been on and off with her partner since August and they recently split again, this time for the last time.
I need to get on with this myself but also obviously need to make sure I detach properly without anybody getting hurt or feeling rejected.
It's just out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Me too P17, Sleeping to get away from it all is my problem,hence my user name, my dad used to tease me that i'd hibernate like a little rabbit! Only way I find round it now it to do the same routine every day, stops me getting over tired and having a nap then the nap turns into a longer nap etc!
When my sitch hit the fan, doc gave me some Amitriptaline, its not an AD in very small qtys more of a Anti-Anxiety, it can help sleep patterns get back on track, might be worth asking! Im in the uk too, so should be able to get similar prescribed..
But, I think the love might be gone.
Sometimes I feel that too. The love just isn't there anymore but I know deep down it is. What cutter said before - you lock a little bit of love away in your heart for them - it mean that one day maybe you can reconcile, maybe you can D but it also means that you don't get twisted with hate and bitterness. D's mum doesn't have a nice word to say about W and while I don't defend W, I do try and get her to stop. That's the love that's left.
I do however hate having that love. It would be so much easier without it.
It's the history, the lack of closure, the betrayal that keeps me from a complete dropping of the rope.
For me it WAS also the not knowing - W never really communicated with me throughout the M (I can see that now) so I never really knew what was good, bad or indifferent. She never said. The onyl time she talked about her feelings was when she wrote me a letter after the split. Unfortunately I now know that the majority of that letter is cr*p (it talks about only me and her in the R etc.) so I am still none the wiser on the why's and wherefor's. However I am have given up on that as I know I am unlikely to ever find out - as many people have said in here 'how are you supposed to understand when she doesn't even know herself'.
My pain is still there, but much, much less than it used to be. I'm feeling excitement about getting the pain over with and finally closing the door yet that is a scary feeling too.
Another nail hit on the head. I'm excited to see what the rest of my life has to offer but I really miss the old W.
Me too P17, Sleeping to get away from it all is my problem,hence my user name, my dad used to tease me that i'd hibernate like a little rabbit! Only way I find round it now it to do the same routine every day, stops me getting over tired and having a nap then the nap turns into a longer nap etc!
When my sitch hit the fan, doc gave me some Amitriptaline, its not an AD in very small qtys more of a Anti-Anxiety, it can help sleep patterns get back on track, might be worth asking! Im in the uk too, so should be able to get similar prescribed..
Hey Lost Rabbit, thanks for adding to my thread.
I did see the Doctor right at the start of the S and after bursting into floods of tears he told me that the depression was situational and he would rather not give me tablets. I was glad of that as I really didn't want them (I had them before and they made 0 difference to me).
I actually went to see the Doc about getting referred to a counsellor. Which didn't pan out by my MC agreed to keep seeing me so it all worked out in the end.
Part of the problem for me is that I work from home so it is very very easy just to not get up.
I did get up this morning and I have some motivation today but not much.
IF you two want... I will take some of your sleep and give you my lack of sleep
IF you two want... I will take some of your sleep and give you my lack of sleep
If I could do that, you'd have a deal.
I thought you were sleeping okay now?
I haven't forgotten about the other post I need to respond to. Gearing myself up for it.
Cutter, I got a rx from the doc to get my mind to shut up so I can sleep at night. It's an anti-anxiety rx. Works well.
IF you two want... I will take some of your sleep and give you my lack of sleep
If I could do that, you'd have a deal.
I thought you were sleeping okay now?
I haven't forgotten about the other post I need to respond to. Gearing myself up for it.
Take your time. When your ready
P, I think I remember reading you have gone through depression before. Me too. In order to get myself out, I would make 2 goals every day. Take a shower and go somewhere. Walking would be ideal! I find that after 2 weeks of doing those 2 goals, I am ready to exercise and talk to my friends again.
Oh and OTC sleeping pills!!
Not that you need advice on getting out of a funk, but just sharing that only 2 small steps helped me.
Well picked up some OTC.... Tonight I want to sleep... OR at least start the sleeping thing...
OMG. Last night I went to bed at 10 PM. Woke up at 11:30 like normal.... 1Am like normal... Then I slept for 6 hours straight... Wow... First time since July... I feel like a layer of film has been removed... Going to try this again tonight...
Cutter, I just want to say I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a long and informed post to me. I feel bad for not replying sooner. To be honest, I really didn't want to reply. Your post hit so many nails on the head that it was simply too close for comfort and I didn't want to rake up old feelings by replying to it. But I need to do it.
I have deliberately quoted the whole post.
During the time between 2 August and 7 September we continued to live together, she stayed in my daughters room (from a previous relationship - my wife is her step-mother).
<SNIP>
After she left I then chased her for a month between 7 September and 5 October. I sent her a rose (for which I got a thanks),
We talked for about 90 minutes about things and I was very calm, compassionate and understanding with what she had to say. I also told her that I would continue to fight for her (bad mistake). She then gave me the coffee table from her house as she had no room for it and she helped me into my house with it, sat down and had about a 20 minute chat. I went to a friends house and about an hour later I get a text from her asking me if I wanted to go to the beach with her and the dog!?!
I went to the beach and she did nothing for 90 minutes but criticise, blame me for everything, tell me she didn't want me and told me basically what an a$$ I had been and a terrible husband. I just again continued with the compassion, understanding and forgiveness.
2. I confronted her on why she told him I hit her and she stared at the floor and told me it was because that maybe she deserved to be hit for what she did. I asked her if she knew I would never hit her - she said, yeah you would if pushed. I pressed her on this and she did say I would never ever hit her and never would.
5. I am 36, my wife is 34. She hates smoking. She desperately wants children. The OP is 45 (forgive me any 45 years olds out there :-)), smokes, smokes pot (if his Facebook page is to be believed), drinks heavily, has facial hair (another pet hate of hers) and is abandons his kids (not a great father figure - this is one of the traits she loved about me that I fought for 7 years for my daughter and WOULD never have given up).
8. My wife had a history of dating married and unavailable men - father figures - before I met her. I put this down to her own father (and mother to an extent) abandoning her when she was young. I thought in me she had found somebody who could love her.
She was here on Wednesday when we spent a (fantastic fun day) with my daughter. If you didn't know we'd separated you would never have guessed, but anyway.
Thats from your first post.
Look at what happened when you dropped the rope.
If you mean when I started NC - nothing happened other than she has tried to contact me a few times.
She has built a very bizzare lie. And she is stubborn. She knows what the affairs did to herself. Look at her dating history. Look at her relationship with her Parents.
She is incredibly stubborn - always has been. The lie she has built was bizarre and unfortunately believed by so many (she moved out, OM moved in as a 'lodger' and then they 'got together really quickly' ... come on people!).
Her dating history should have been a huge red flag to me - somebody who goes with married men is not want who values married and vows. But as I said I took that, in me, she had found somebody she could love and somebody who could love her and that was all she was looking for all along - she always went for unavailable men who she could never ever have.
Look at that history. Look at what you have said was lacking in the relationship. Look at what she left. Look at what she gained.
Take an honest look.
I have tried to. I don't see what she has gained though from all of this. Only what she has lost. But then I can't see her side of things anymore. I don't know who OM really is. I don't know the kind of person or partner he is. I see what I see about him from my POV - a man who no longer sees his children, was desperate to leave where he was, who went with a married woman and did to that marriage what somebody else did to his, etc. This may all be circumstance though (and some of it may be lies) and he may be the nicest guy in the world. I simply don't know. However as I have said many times, W has burned a lot of bridges, is incredibly stubborn (probably the most stubborn person I have ever met) and has no idea, or simply doesn't care, what she has done.
Now that you have done that look at how you and OM fulfilled those EN's of her's for a few months.
As my W is big on physical affection and sex (confusing sex with love), loves kids and was desperate for her own, she had all of her EN's filled by us both. He provided sex and love, I provided love (whether she wanted it or not or even recognised it or not I don't know), D provided the child part.
She became very vocal on the A because she thought you approved of it. But she never broke contact with you. Part of the fantasy of staying friends and your approval. But anyways... You dropped the rope. And it confused her.
I don't see it confused her Cutter.
I do agree that she thought I simply approved or was indifferent to the whole thing. She was cake eating and it was destroying me on two levels - 1) that she was so happy around me while having betrayed me 2) that I was such a weak and needy idiot that I was putting up with this BS.
She didn't ever break contact with me, although it was becoming more and more of a strained contact. She was taking longer and longer to reply to texts and she had the control over me. That was another reason for going NC - to break that cycle as the loss of control over me was getting to me.
Its been one month of guilt free you not around living. One month.
And judging by the comments from her friend and her face when I saw her last Monday, she is loving it! But then I suppose they all do at the start.
But you do not shy away from the truth. She does. She painted the picture that you were a horrible man. Slander ( abuse ) yet you stood up to her on this issue. She moved 500 M. from your house. Yet you gave only love and silence as a response.
That is true. However she will see what I have done in telling everybody the truth (sometimes I have told them too much but I wanted for them to first of all get the real story and then believe it with the other facts that I had) as being mean and vindictive. There is nothing I can do about that though. The truth is the truth.
She sees the developing relationship with your daughter. Something that you two did not make. But something she saw everyday. And wanted children of her own. She saw how you worked on developing that relationship again. The sacrifices. The pain. And then finally the joy.
She knows this about you. She knows you will fight for what is a part of you. Fight for the people you love.
She should know that. I fought for stable contact with D for 7 years. But she resents the fact that she couldn't / didn't give me a child of our own, I think. I fought for W too. I am a big believer in standing up for what I believe in. That she does know, however I did take it to extremes sometimes and she didn't like that.
Then she looks at her life.
Flight. Her history is not to fight but to self destruct. Take the path of selfishness. But she also knows that this will not last. And when you dropped the rope.... Well she is just begining to process this now. Give it some more time. Let her begin to miss you. Remember you are stable. You have a business. You have shown how you can overcome great hardships because it is the right thing to do. You can forgive.
Always always always flight. Always. It's fear or rejection that has her do this. She has always shied away from conflict, responsibility, commitment, apologies, etc. I have seen glimpses of her doing all of these things though and standing up and that is the woman I loved and married. But those glimpses are rare.
As far as being stable - that is the last thing she thinks I am. Depression, alienation from my D, alienation from her, business wasn't doing great, we had financial problems, insecurity, passive aggressive, etc. I can't prove to her how much I have changed as NC is in place but I HAVE changed (EVERYBODY has noticed it - from being more attentive, being a good listener to being happier and the one thing I have noticed - I am MUCH MUCH calmer even to the point of having to calm D's mum a lot (she likes to shout and go off on one quite a lot - that is something I never thought I'd see me do and it still makes me smile every time I do it).
I am sure when the A was going on she left little hints. Little cries for help.
She probably did. Thinking back though I haven't been able to see them.
And now I think she is going to follow one of two paths.
1. Keep this path of self destruct like her Mother. Out of guilt that she became what she did not want to be. Forever repeating the same mistakes because she is afaid of herself and does not know how to deal with her issues. A child in a woman's body. Grow old and unhappy because she never realized that happiness comes from within. A miscued idea of love and relationships. No relationship is happy 100% no relationship is perfect. She is probally surprised that other relationships work through issues instead of running away. Suprised that people are not selfish when their needs are not met. And she will not learn this lesson. And have a very sad and disappointing life full of blame shifting , spite and bitterness. Always finding problems and ignoring solutions.
2. She releazies her problems. But does not know how to cry out for help. Self distructs. Loses everything. But pride steps in and she remains quiet about her losses. She reaches out confused, afraid and alone. She needs to be taught what remorse really is. For she has never confronted it.
Both of those are possible.
If OM sticks around, 1 will be the outcome. Only when OM leaves (and he will I am sure - just not sure when) will 2 occur. He is the catalyst just now for bringing W out of her FOG.
The most important limne that you used in there, and it's a line that has stuck with me since you wrote it - child in a woman's body. I have said a lot about W being immature, not up to a mature relationship, living in a fantasy world, no communication etc. That one phrase just rounds it all up neatly into a ball ... child in a womans body. Perfect.
But the 2nd one is timebased.
We are moving forward. The clock is ticking. She does not realize this. Nor do I think they ever do.
Can I also say I don't think they care, or at least W doesn't care.
When she left to have the affair. She passed control over to you.
This is important especially for people just starting to go through this. When a WAS leaves, LBS's think that they take all of the control with them. They don't. What they are doing is giving you BACK control of your life. But in the LBS FOG (and I've never heard anybody talk about that but there is one) we don't see that until later on.
Taking control of us is the most important thing I think any LBS can do. The sooner the better.
The stop watch was pressed. She knows that you and D are getting along great. She knows that you and D'mom are working out your differences.
I would also guess that she thinks me and D's mum are actually back together! I have made it clear to her friend several times that that is not the case but people will believe what they want to believe.
So she pulls herself further into her affair. She is pushing for 100% EN's from him now. A man who could remove his family from his life. She knows this.
You know I never understood that. She wants kids, as I've said a hundred times. She liked the way I fought for D for 7 years. She stopped me on several occassions giving up (and we all have those moments of weakness where we just want to throw the towel in, go into a corner and cry - was there more than once) saying that she knows what her own dad did to her when he gave up on her and she didn't want that happening to D - that spurred me on. How could she then hook up with a man who has done that to both of his children? It makes no sense. He is, and this is based on guesswork, around 700-800 miles away from his children. Maybe his xW doesn't let him see them - maybe she is a b*tch, maybe she has reasons, but you know F4J and other similar groups (of which I was a member) have been fighting these injustices for years - there are ways and means and giving up for me, while I had moments of weakness, was never on the goal map. Moving that far away from your kids says volumes to me.
I moved 300 miles away from D and visited her every weekend / second weekend / holidays / parents evenings etc (between that and work I was doing 2000-3000 miles per month spending on average £600 on fuel and no idea what on servicing the car (and it was a Volvo so servicing was NOT cheap) and to see her was a 12 hour round trip) and sometimes I did it for nothing as I didn't get to see her but that was okay because she knew I had come to see her - she knew Daddy was there and she knew Daddy wouldn't leave her. That to me was the most important thing - the 12 hour drive was easy knowing that. That was important - Daddy loves you D.
I'm sorry for rambling here. That bit just bothers me and confuses me.
And she knows that he can do it to her as well. She has picked this mate very well. For it is one that can be easily discarded based on what path she chooses to follow.
It is also maybe a mate who, yet again, is unavailable to her. The circle continues until one day she wakes up, grows up and realises the man that gave her what she needed was actually the one she married all along - he just had a few problems at the time and I needed a huge kick up the backside to realise it. We all make mistakes. None of us are perfect. However walking away from a 6 year fantastic relationship (as I have said many times before I said it was a 9/10, she said 7/10 which isn't to be sniffed at) isn't the answer to anything.
Cutter, this post made me cry, worry and has upset me as it makes me think of all that she has done. All that she has lost. And everything that she has discarded like old rubbish. From the bottom of my heart though, thank you for posting it. It means a lot to me. Your opinions on W are scarily accurate for somebody who doesn't actually know her.
Small update. Test from MIL today:
Hi P, I know D's birthday is in January but not sure of the date? Hope the weather's not too bad up there. We've still got a total white-out and icerinks on the road. Hope all's well. MIL x
Nothing wrong with that but, and I am reading into it, couldn't she have asked W about the date as they talk all the time (and W has all this written down - although she would know when D's birthday is off the top of her head anyway). Just seemed weird. D's mum said that maybe she is just trying to keep contact - I suppose but she never struck me as that sort of person.
Also why ask about the roads if she is talking to W. W lives 500 yards from here so she will have the same weather ... could be chit chat but why bother!??!
Conclusion, and it's reading into things (not that it makes any difference to anything but I'm doing it anyway) - W and MIL are not talking.
Question is ... why?
Both of them are thick as thieves. Do I detect decension in the ranks?
Yes I know I'm reading into a text, but as I said it won't make any difference to anything. I just found it interesting.
Perhaps she is trying to create communication with you. Build a friendship with you two.
Nothing wrong with that.
Its a hard thing for a woman to look at her daughter fail. Repeat the same mistakes.
Perhaps she is trying to create communication with you. Build a friendship with you two.
Nothing wrong with that.
No there is nothing wrong with that. It would be nice, to be honest, for her to keep being a part of D's life. D has lost enough recently.
Its a hard thing for a woman to look at her daughter fail. Repeat the same mistakes.
The texts between W and MIL before she left were nasty about me. MIL was quite nasty about me as was W.
I find it hard to now accept that she has turned into this person who wants to keep contact. However, maybe she has realised that the lies that W has told her were in fact lies. MIL and W were very VERY close (MIL admitted this just prior to W leaving) and she knew nothing about the A or OM.
I told MIL about the OM (mentioning him by name) before W even left here. MIL told me that I was reading too much into it ... then OM moves in ... hmmmmmm.
Speak the truth. Its always a good thing P.
What are you doing this weekend my friend?
Speak the truth. Its always a good thing P.
I agree. MUCH easier to keep track of!!
Puppy
Speak the truth. Its always a good thing P.
I try. Problem is, to some people I may have said too much (for example I've told people, all of them close, about W saying to OM that I beat her). She, however, has never said that to anybody other than OM, as far as I am aware. How ever I wanted to tell people the lies that could be potentially spread (as that is a dangerous one in a small town)!
What are you doing this weekend my friend?
Nice meal and DVD night tomorrow with D. Tonight just watching a bit of TV. Sunday all on my ownsome as D goes back to her mum's ready for school on Monday.
Nothing too exciting!
I agree. MUCH easier to keep track of!!
Puppy
LOL ... yeah, at least then you only need one story in your head!
Ahh P you crack me up....
What you making with D ?
Mexican ?
P, it is really great that your changes are evident to others! It means they are real! great job improving yourself; I'm especially impressed with the fact you improved your listening skills--that gives me an idea to do the same!!bravo!
P17--
I'm with you. I feel my WA is in an exit affair. Hell, it's not even an affair: he is in a new relationship. He may have started it inappropriately, and left the one he was in for 23 years inappropriately--but I don't see what I gain by thinking of it as an "affair" anymore.
My WA is completely a conflict avoider. Trying to imagine him going through the conflict to end A; approach me to see if I am available, etc., etc., is almost laughable.
Because he is such a strong conflict avoider and people pleaser, I still fear that unless I "somehow" let him know that I am approachable for a possible R, he will never overcome the guilty/conflict avoidance/fear of rejection to even put a pinky toe in to test the waters.
I didn't get any WAS "script." I didn't get any "typical" WAS pattern. All I got was everything fine and dandy; a few weeks in July when I knew something was wrong, and then "I'm done."
We have been 89% NC since he told me he was leaving; most communication around house stuff. I have been 99% NC since mid-December; only one email about tenant stuff that the tenant copied to both of us; I replied to the tenant and only copied him.
So--I can't see that I am DB'ing here. What DB'ing is there to do? Besides for me, of course!
I have GAL; I am out and about; even a movie date for tomorrow. I am doing everything possibly good for myself. And trying to remember and do more for others, now that I am not completely crazy and anxiety quivering all the time. My brain is a little bit more under control.
It is frustrating to read about "do what works" and "cheeseless tunnels" when I can't do anything--in relation to him--that I could see working/not working to monitor, etc., in text-book DB fashion.
Anyhow, I am writing this I guess just to vent. I wonder if I should be on a "Get a new life after divorce" website/BB, as I really don't feel there is any "affair busting/DB'ing" to be done.
Of course I love having all of your support and advice during our mutually sucky times, and so I keep reading. I am trying to think of a new thread, but mostly I come up with "why am I here?"
I don't know that I would take him back if he asked tomorrow--which is a big change--but I also don't believe that anything I am or could do would change the trajectory of the "done" R.
Tough times are approaching: Taxes, which involves meeting with a tax person together (because of complicated joint ownership of house/rentals); will have to deal with a new tenant in February; his lease is up in May and he will start pushing on getting the house.
Things I am doing to protect myself:
Talked to bank today about re-fi the house. I am approved to carry the mortgage myself.
Talked to financial advisor to liquidate funds to have cash available.
Set an appointment with retirement account rep to see about liquidating retirement fund for cash (to buy X out). I am more than willing to take a loss, and pay taxes/penalties on retirement funds--retiring is the last thing I am worried about now!
Next week I will find a real-estate lawyer so I have one lined up.
I wrote earlier that I must take hope out and stab it through the heart with a stake, etc.
On a more practical note, I need to listen to books on my ipod to give my mind something else to think about. I realized today while working on a mindless (normally a nice soothing thing to do) that I was CONSTANTLY thinking about X and the sitch.
As soon as I realized that, I did all I could to "stop-think" and come up with something else to think about. I finally started going through the multiplication tables. I think the ipod will be better than that!
I apologize for this ridiculously long thread--just things I have been ruminating on, and here goes.
Aver , newmama , DbD are you on the Alt ?
If not come join us.
And Aver. Don't leave us yet... I think you have some tough times ahead. Also some very happy ones. And I think you are well on your way discovering a new you. And we will be here to help you when ever asked.
P, it is really great that your changes are evident to others! It means they are real! great job improving yourself; I'm especially impressed with the fact you improved your listening skills--that gives me an idea to do the same!!bravo!
Thanks NM. The listening skills was the first one I learned. Problem is, being to strongly opinionated, I tend to butt in sometimes and offer that opinion rather than letting the other person just talk and get it off their mind.
I need to keep reminding myself that women don't want us guys to fix things, they just want us to let them vent to us. If they want an opinion, they will ask for it!
I am a different guy. A much calmer person than I was before. Far more understanding, compassionate and forgiving. Somebody who understand that the small stuff doesn't really matter.
I will keep the changes coming. For me. Nobody else.
I'm with you. I feel my WA is in an exit affair. Hell, it's not even an affair: he is in a new relationship. He may have started it inappropriately, and left the one he was in for 23 years inappropriately--but I don't see what I gain by thinking of it as an "affair" anymore.
I agree with you there. However Cutter did convince me that maybe it wasn't an exit affair. Some other things have come up too which make me think it wasn't. But other than that, our sitch is the same ... it's a new relationship rather than some sordid A.
My WA is completely a conflict avoider. Trying to imagine him going through the conflict to end A; approach me to see if I am available, etc., etc., is almost laughable.
BINGO. Same here. I can't imagine her kicking OM out at all. I can't imagine her approaching my door and talking to me. I can't even imagine her texting me to ask to meet. When I went NC, she saw that as me moving on and she won't come back now. This I do know.
Because he is such a strong conflict avoider and people pleaser, I still fear that unless I "somehow" let him know that I am approachable for a possible R, he will never overcome the guilty/conflict avoidance/fear of rejection to even put a pinky toe in to test the waters.
LOL. Yep. Here too. They don't seem to see that what they have done is walk away with somebody else. If we do it, they will see that as rejection and won't come back. What they do is of no consequence - we do the same and we're history.
There is nothing I can do about this. Absolutely nothing. However, what I ask myself is do I REALLY want a woman in my life who doesn't even have the COURAGE to stand up and say what she wants regardless of the outcome? Do you want somebody in your life who won't fight for you? I don't. But it doesn't stop me loving her.
I didn't get any WAS "script." I didn't get any "typical" WAS pattern. All I got was everything fine and dandy; a few weeks in July when I knew something was wrong, and then "I'm done."
I have had the WAS script since then. The behaviours. The attitude. The contact. That has all be pretty much script. However since NC the script has gone but I don't think there is a script after NC.
So--I can't see that I am DB'ing here. What DB'ing is there to do? Besides for me, of course!
But that is DBing? You are working on yourself. You can't control your WAH, only yourself. So you work on what you can - yourself.
It is frustrating to read about "do what works" and "cheeseless tunnels" when I can't do anything--in relation to him--that I could see working/not working to monitor, etc., in text-book DB fashion.
This I do agree with. But that's why NC is called the Last Resort Technique. It will make or break your marriage. Once in NC there is no DBing the enemy. Only yourself. But by DBing yourself you are in fact DBing the enemy anyway ... IYSWIM!
I don't know that I would take him back if he asked tomorrow--which is a big change--but I also don't believe that anything I am or could do would change the trajectory of the "done" R.
Remember you can't control him. So why are you beating yourself up about not being able to DB him? It's easy to say 'work on you' but that's all you can do. Everything else is outwith your control.
Things I am doing to protect myself:
<SNIP>
You're doing a lot here. You are protecting yourself. Very important.
I wrote earlier that I must take hope out and stab it through the heart with a stake, etc.
Ahhhhh ... that's what I want to do too. Today I have no hope. I have no interest. I have no care about the M, R or W. I feel good. Tired but good. I know that rollercoaster won't last, but I'm happy where I am at now.
Now, if you ever find the hope. Let me know and we can stab it together.
On a more practical note, I need to listen to books on my ipod to give my mind something else to think about. I realized today while working on a mindless (normally a nice soothing thing to do) that I was CONSTANTLY thinking about X and the sitch.
[/quote]
I have stopped thinking about her so much. I still catch myself doing it, usually in bed - last thing at night or first in the morning. The thing that has helped me to stop thinking so much? Stop talking about it. Stop talking it to friend, family or anybody else. It's difficult to do but it has helped me. I'm actually at the stage now where I stop myself even mentioning her at all in casual conversations.
Alt ... no sure what it stands for (Alternative World?). In our case it's Facebook. Look up Cutterbug.
Small update.
Spoke to D's mum last night about W's friend. She said to me 'as she's a woman you know where her loyalties lie and everything you tell her will go straight back to W'.
Now I am still a trusting soul (yes I haven't lost that) and W's friend is a really nice girl. I keep thinking that she wouldn't be passing everything on that I tell her. However 'she is a woman and I know where her loyalties lie'. I can use this to me advantage.
On Xmas Eve she did ask me some questions and I actually thought I was being probed for info a little. I can't see her doing this, as she's so 'nice' but ... 'I know where her loyalties lie'.
I sent W's friend a text asking when her driving test is. No response. However she called me tonight and we had about an hour's conversation. Didn't mention W at all. Although W's friend did ask me if I was busy and when we got cut off she asked if I was there on my own as she didn't want to be talking away if I had a guest ... it just sounded a little ... I don't know. Let me put it this way, when she asked if I was here on my own I immediately though it was a strange question after asking me earlier if I was busy.
Reading too much into it again. However I tend to go with my gut now. It hasn't let me down yet. My gut says I'm being probed for info.
Although W's friend did ask me if I was busy and when we got cut off she asked if I was there on my own as she didn't want to be talking away if I had a guest
this completely jumped out to me but makes me think
1) is she possibly interested in you romantically?
2) she is gathering info for W. any chance rumors could be going around that you and D's mom are seeing each other?
Wow, thanks, P17.
I was feeling lonely with my long rant out there.
[/quote]BINGO. Same here. I can't imagine her kicking OM out at all. I can't imagine her approaching my door and talking to me. I can't even imagine her texting me to ask to meet. When I went NC, she saw that as me moving on and she won't come back now. This I do know.
THIS has been the driving fear for me. As you all know, ad nauseum, having been remote in the R, I can only believe that he is satisfied now that I never "really" loved him--after all, no crying, no chasing, no nothing from me? So why would he ever see if I was interested in reconciling?
Do you want somebody in your life who won't fight for you
It would be great to have him "feel the loss" and want to "fight" for me. But with the NC...how is he to know there is a battle he could engage should he choose?
But that is DBing? You are working on yourself. You can't control your WAH, only yourself. So you work on what you can - yourself.[quote]
Truly, I get that. I am not arguing with the pros, here. Nor am I leaving this site where you all have been so wonderful and supportive. But do you see what I am feeling about the futility and heartbreak about being on this site? If DB'ing is all about me, I could be on a "make yourself a better person" site without any reference to making R's or WAS.
The ipod was great today as I worked on this little sewing project for work. I am at the point of being done with talking about it. I told a couple of friends already to more or less "shut up." I am just tired of talking about my life and the sitch. I would rather talk about baseball (about which I know nothing). So I do feel that is a good point to reach. Less talking hopefully soon equals less thinking.
Ah, the alt.
I figured it was FB, but didn't know how to find people.
Sorta feel like The Matrix--who is going to offer me the red pill or the blue pill?
I want to talk to LFA, too--she and I have the most similar sitches that I have seen so far.
I'll go find a post of hers and see how she is doing.
this completely jumped out to me but makes me think
1) is she possibly interested in you romantically?
I don't think so. I don't think she'd cross that line with W.
2) she is gathering info for W. any chance rumors could be going around that you and D's mom are seeing each other?
If there are no rumours about me and D's mum seeing each other ... I'd be very surprised. I have however made it crystal clear to W's friend that we are NOT getting back together. I've also said the same things to anybody else who asks. At the end of the day though, why would W actually give a sh*t who I was seeing!?!
What also confused me about the call is that W's friend lost her phone a while ago and subsequently ALL of her numbers on there (including old old friends). She didn't know what my mobile number was either so I gave her it on Xmas Eve.
However, last night she called me at home, I didn't answer, then she called my mobile, then she called me at home again when we got cut off ... which begs the question - if she lost ALL of her numbers ... where did she get my home number from? I never gave her it and if she lost all of her numbers she wouldn't have it under W's name either.
I know I'm reading more into this than there is, but things sometimes ring bells in your head. This one did that. I'm just observing and reporting (ala Mall Cop :))
So I'm confused...if you don't think W is checking up on you, then why are there bells ringing in your head? what purpose do you think W's friend has in trying to contact you?
So I'm confused...if you don't think W is checking up on you, then why are there bells ringing in your head? what purpose do you think W's friend has in trying to contact you?
Me too!
Bells are ringing in my head as the questions I were being asked were a little more than casual conversation (call it a 6th sense) but at the same time I'm not convinced W's friend is the type of person to go tittle tattling or would be used by W to probe me for info ...
Purpose - not really sure. My spidey senses are tingling though
I'm mainly just reporting it NM - as I said, I am in two minds - something isn't quite right and I don't know what it is.
P GAL talk only to this woman. And do not tell her anything about your relationships with any women (wife included ). If she asks. Mystery and confidence.
And a day after you get your next haircut. And your looking like a million bucks. Go meet up for a coffee or tea.... And chat away about GAL and D.... Never ever once mention W.
Patience.
You gave it to me today. I return the favour. Keep on your parallel paths.
How are things going with D's Mom???
P GAL talk only to this woman. And do not tell her anything about your relationships with any women (wife included ). If she asks. Mystery and confidence.
Oh, I haven't done Cutter. And don't intend to. I didn't GAL too much on the phone as we mainly talked about her. She asked how me and the family were doing but that was about it.
And a day after you get your next haircut. And your looking like a million bucks. Go meet up for a coffee or tea.... And chat away about GAL and D.... Never ever once mention W.
I never once mentioned her during our last conversation - I did once mention 'we' meaning me and W but that was once and nothing more. And I was talking about the benefits of working for myself and being able to structure the time around D which is something me and W had issues with as she wanted me to get a second income.
I was thinking of asking her to lunch one day in the future, around the end of the month. I have a very vague plan in my head about seeing her / contacting her once a month or so just to let her know how well I am doing and having her communicate that back to W.
Today I have bucket loads. But as we all know, tomorrow is another day.
You gave it to me today. I return the favour. Keep on your parallel paths.
I'm going there. I will get there. Today I feel very very good. As I said though, tomorrow is another day.
The deadline for separation agreement is fast approaching though and I THINK W is not going to give me the agreement in order to force me to D her instead ... oh how she underestimates me. She has had the agreement since 3 October and all I have had is a letter from her solicitor saying she had engaged their services - that was just before Xmas. If I didn't know better I'd say she didn't want a D ... then again she underestimates me as I do know she is doing it for financial reasons ... just as well I'm not stupid isn't it!
How are things going with D's Mom???
They are good. Very good. We had a bit of a talk today and sorted a few things out. She opened up a little. It was good to here her talking to me.
I have cooled things down a little though. I don't want to back off too quickly as I don't want her to get the wrong idea - she has become as attached to me as I her.
A close friend today thought that me and D's mum were back together again ... and she lives on the same island that OM came from.
This is also the same friend that W suddenly started chatting to like crazy just before the split and asked if she could come over for a holiday - they now realise that was to see OM before he moved over to her here - but they said she couldn't come over because of the sitch. Surprisingly they haven't heard from her since - 5 months. Classic conflict avoidance behaviour. I am off over to see them at the end of this month and also off to see them at the start of March ...
One other thing that the close friend told me - she agreed with me that W and MIL are probably not talking. MIL was apparently not happy at all with what W had done with OM. That was news to me. And further pressure on the A.
If they truly are not talking this is a HUGE amount of pressure as I doubt her aunty speaks to her (who brought her up from age 13 and whose husband also had an A many years ago and they reconciled) much either as they are church going christians and now her mother ... hmmm ... these are biggies.
But W is W and she will stick two fingers up at them and do her own thing anyway. She never was one for being told what to do and the child in her likes to rebel.
Rant mode off
Never ever underestimate the Mother Daughter relationship. Especially when Daughter has disappointed Mother.
Its a very unique and powerful relationship P.
Daughter knows that Mother will carry these feelings to the end of her days.
bump outta love.
P... How are you doing my friend.... I am noticing were not posting as much... Perhaps were healing...
bump outta love.
P... How are you doing my friend.... I am noticing were not posting as much... Perhaps were healing...
Hey Cutter. I'm doing not too badly. Up and down the same as usual.
Saw my IC on Tuesday. Wednesday was a down day. Thursday was good. Today not bad.
Heard that after the Xmas rush, OM didn't get taken on by the shop W works for. Other than that nothing much to report. Trying to get on with my life. Having a hard time getting hold of solicitor (been trying since Tuesday with no luck).
W has not signed separation agreement as yet. My guess is her solicitor has advised her to not sign it as there is therefore no incentive for me to D her. May have to sell the house here starting Feb. She will not be getting a D until I am ready.
Been having 'waves of love' (best description I can find) for W over the last few days. No idea why.
NC anniversary is coming up - 2 months on 17th, 2 months since I last spoke to W on 23rd, 3 month anniversary of when OM moved in passed on the 10th, 5 months since we separated on the 2nd.
I got to thinking today how much happier I am now than when I was in the M.
As JD from Scrubs says 'when we stop fighting, we find time is on our side'. I am trying to take it easy. Trying to get a bit of oomph back for life again.
Have a few thoughts I'd like people's advice on and will post them when I am ready.
Nothing much else to report.
I have been through the "waves of love" for WH and then they are followed by "waves of NUMB" so that might come soon for you!
'when we stop fighting, we find time is on our side'
time is on our side because we stop caring when we stop fighting? So time doesn't matter? Is that what this quote means?
numb with a slight chance of smiles
I have been through the "waves of love" for WH and then they are followed by "waves of NUMB" so that might come soon for you!
Oh, I've had them for a while. I haven't had the waves of deep love. The forgiving, warm, caring love that we had when together. Haven't really felt that since she left. It was unexpected but nice to feel.
'when we stop fighting, we find time is on our side'
time is on our side because we stop caring when we stop fighting? So time doesn't matter? Is that what this quote means?[/quote]
I take it to mean once we let go and stop fighting the sitch, we get the benefit of time back. Time to take it easy, heal, mend, and decide what we want to do. We get patience. Or, as PDT says, 'embrace the suck'.
Watched the movie Mr Brooks tonight. Not sure if anybody has seen it but the first 'movie' scene is a couple making love on a bed and my thoughts turned to W and OM. I've read about little things triggering memories - that was one of those. But, with the sick feeling in my stomach, I just sucked it up and got on with it.
wanna hear my trigger. It was a little one.
Always update the resume this day every year
Well I completely forgot the last thing I aways had in there was
Happily Married 9 Years.
Started to put this in at year 3.
I have a trigger. I can't look at a glass block shower now.
Oh yea... P 4 months no seeing ladybug today...
we get the benefit of time back. Time to take it easy, heal, mend, and decide what we want to do. We get patience.
I think the limited contact with my WH lately has helped me relax today. (Yeah, a few days ago I had fear but today I feel calm). no contact is not fighting. So maybe there is a correlation there...don't fight and you will become patient.
triggers...P, I couldn't watch ANYONE sharing affection or sexual relations (wait that sounds wrong) on TV or in movies for 6 months without imagining WH and OW. So I get it!
I have triggers daily still. Let's see one of them today was the smell of rain on the deck-WHAM-brought back to last April when WH had moved out but insisted on coming back to the house to work on something. It was right after an MC appointment about co-parenting...it was after this day that I had to declare no contact.
triggers...P, I couldn't watch ANYONE sharing affection or sexual relations (wait that sounds wrong) on TV or in movies for 6 months without imagining WH and OW. So I get it!
LOL. The sexual relations bit (and you can't really avoid it as it's everywhere on TV and movies) get's me quite a lot. I just really remember it getting to me a lot last night. The reason is below.
This whole 'waves of love' towards W cr*p that I'm in just now is responsible for a lot of how I'm feeling just now. I need to get rid of it asap.
I am 'chomping at the bit' (as we say over here) to contact W about anything. Anything at all. I want to break NC. I almost drove up her street yesterday and the day before as I have a hunch that her an OM have a new car between them - I tried to convince myself that she wouldn't know (as it was 3am and I was on my way home) and then I remembered that that's not really the point - NC is for me and I will know that I broke it!! I want to go to the shop where she works just to see her. I want to look at her Bebo / Facebook page.
All because I have these 'waves of love'. I thought before that they were good. A little bit of love coming back is good as I know how I still feel about her. However as I'm now feeling like a drunk man (metaphorically - it's only 2pm here :)) I am finding my emotions running riot a little bit.
It's fortunate that I now understand my feelings and emotions as only a few months ago those emotions would actually have taken over. I'd have driven up her street. I'd have contacted her about something (D's birthday is a week today so there's an excuse). I'd be pestering her again about rubbish - anything.
Now at least I can reign them in and recognise them for what they are - a passing emotion that needs to be controlled.
So there is a least a silver lining.
However, I want to be rid of these 'waves of love' and get back to the 'waves of indifference' which is what I was having before.
This bring me to what I was going to ask you guys about. However, given the above you can see that this is an indirect way to contact W and may therefore not be a great idea. Before that however a little tiny update.
Did a bit of GALing yesterday. W's friend texted me. She had her driving test on Friday. I put a 'good luck' card through her door on Tuesday (with a kiss on it - it was a habit - whenever I wrote cards I used to put three kisses on them - when I wrote her's I was going to do the same but remembered who it was for after I had put one on - hopefully she doesn't take that the wrong way!!!!!). I texted her on Friday morning saying good luck. She came back to me with a long text saying it had been cancelled (probably the weather) and that she needs to get her money back and asking how I was. I said I was great, a bit sore and tired but great. Maybe it was a bit too much but I did feel great yesterday! So, tiny winy update.
Back to what I want to ask.
I got school pictures of D recently. I was going to email MIL a copy of them and give her details of how to get a copy if she wants to. So that is question number 1 - should I? It would mean that W could get a copy too, although I really don't think she'd bother.
I also wanted to say to MIL in the email about D's mum and how we are not back together and that I still honour and keep my vows. This may sound like 'eh?' but I thought she will have had the rumours through W about me and D's mum. I wanted to make it clear that she is my MIL and I respect her opinion of me and value her role in our family. However, I don't have any real idea on how to express this without soundy needy, cheesy, inappropriate or 'why is he telling me this'. I also don't know if I should even bother, although I think I should.
Basically, what I want to really get through is for MIL to tell W that me and D's mum are not back together again. If we were there we would be NO chance of reconciliation ever. I don't really think there is anyway, but a relationship with D's mum would kill even the remotest of chances.
Advice, opinions, suggestions ...
I will avoid contacting W. I am strong enough to control myself. As I said, a few months ago I wouldn't have been. How far I've come ...
Now at least I can reign them in and recognise them for what they are - a passing emotion that needs to be controlled.
Yes!!! Not acting on emotion and impulses is the hardest thing for us all and you have control! In fact, people who have problems with drugs and alcohol abuse them because they can't handle the emotions and reign them in. So it is a very healthy and difficult thing to be able for us to experience the emotions and not act on them let alone not try to numb them.
Now about contacting your MIL. As someone who has stayed in touch with WH's family, I advise sending the picture for sure. (If MIL wants to send a copy to W, great. But it is for MIL!)
Okay, about letting her know you are still committed to your vows...this is how I said it to my MIL but it is just an example and you may not want to put it this way. I sent her an email with a pic of S and added "Hope you are well. Regardless of what happens to WH and I, you will still be a part of S's life. I do want you know that I am still committed to our marriage and I am hoping to reconcile one day. Take care,"
In my case, I have been an active part of WH's family throughout our marriage. I can't recall if you were as involved with MIL or not.
I don't think you need to say you are not involved with D's mum if you send a message to her to let you know you are still committed to the marriage, KWIM? If she was wondering, she could ask you.
Oh, and it might sound defensive too if you said something about not being involved with D's mum. How do you know if W has even talked to her about this?
Don't say anything about D's mom.
Just the rest.
Nor do you need transparancy with a woman who is commiting adultry.
Think about it.
Yes!!! Not acting on emotion and impulses is the hardest thing for us all and you have control! In fact, people who have problems with drugs and alcohol abuse them because they can't handle the emotions and reign them in.
... or shopping / spending money, or eating ... (ala my WAW) ...
Okay, about letting her know you are still committed to your vows...this is how I said it to my MIL but it is just an example and you may not want to put it this way. I sent her an email with a pic of S and added "Hope you are well. Regardless of what happens to WH and I, you will still be a part of S's life. I do want you know that I am still committed to our marriage and I am hoping to reconcile one day. Take care,"
I actually really like that newmama. The bit about hoping to reconcile one day is the bit I have a problem with (and I know this is just your email not what you are suggesting I send).
The reason I have a problem with it is that a) I want to send it but b) that may be seen as being needy, clingy and goes against the tough love NC that I have at the moment ... I think.
What do you guys think?
In my case, I have been an active part of WH's family throughout our marriage. I can't recall if you were as involved with MIL or not.
W's family all live 300 miles from here so it's difficult. However MIL did come up and stay with us a number of times. She is the only member of the entire family I've actually heard from. Everybody else has abandoned me and D by the looks of things - no Xmas cards, nothing.
I don't think you need to say you are not involved with D's mum if you send a message to her to let you know you are still committed to the marriage, KWIM? If she was wondering, she could ask you.
I take your points about that (in this and your other message), and cutters message too. I shouldn't have to justify myself as I am not doing anything at all. We are friends, thankfully. For 7 years we hated each other!
I actually think that MIL will think I'm insane if I tell her that I am still committed to a marriage where the spouse has left and is shacked up with somebody else. Things are different over here in the UK than they are over in the US. But hey, I feel how I feel and I want to do what I want to do ... if loving somebody enough to let them go down their own path and fall over without picking them up is insanity, then I suppose I am.
so are you going to say anything about staying committed to W?
I hope P does not do that.
I would rather P realizes that he is trying to contact W via his MIL and let her know she can eat cake again.
I hope P does not do that.
I would rather P realizes that he is trying to contact W via his MIL and let her know she can eat cake again.
I know that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I just wanted to reach out and let her know I love her and want us to work. The kind of person she is will see the NC as a rejection and that I don't love her.
I know all of the above is completely wrong. I shouldn't be trying to initiate any kind of contact or wave any flags. I should just keep doing what I'm doing and if she wants to come back she knows where I am. However, I know she won't come back. And this contact is a little bit of desperation to try and say 'hi' without saying it to her.
I've been at this only two months now, which in the grand scheme of things is nothing. However in those two months I haven't initiated any kind of contact at all. I've been strong. I am wavering now but that's what you guys are helping me with. You're helping me stay strong.
These feelings just now are nothing more than a blip. I know in 2-3 days I'll feel a lot better about things and it will all be good again.
I've decided to do nothing for the time being. I will wait until D's birthday is out of the way next week and then make a decision then.
Last night was cancelled so I didn't go out with the lady I expected to. D's mum came out with me instead. Not sure whether that was a good idea or not, but it happened.
We had a great night actually.
Saw a few of W's friends. No doubt they will report back what was seen. However every single one of them blanked me. One of them even sat down right next to me and never uttered a 'hi' or anything else.
Heard from D's mum tonight. I don't remember some of the night (common trait for me no matter who much or little I drink!). There was Karaoke on at the last bar we were at. Apparently, while we were standing at the bar, somebody was singing 'Girls Got Rhythm' at the Karaoke, which, if you know the song has a 'backing singer' line of 'Girls Got Rhythm' all the way through the chorus. So, me and D's mum, as loud as we could, took that job on and were singing away. The bar staff thought it was great, however, W's friends made a few comments as they were standing next to us (D's mum couldn't remember what the comments were but they were not happy and were tutting away). D's mum did tell me at the time but, me being me said '<nasty word removed> them' and just got louder. We were having fun, nobody was being hurt, and the bar staff thought it cool. So who were they to stop us?
As I said, we had a great night. Home by 2am.
I just can't be bothered with those people who think it's actually cool to accept lifts from you one month and then completely blank you the next. What exactly have I done? More story nonsense from W no doubt ... maybe I beat her again or maybe they think I should be crying into my soup at home?
Just a bit p*ssed off tonight about this. Annoys me. Makes the job of reconciliation, the remote possibility that it actually is, all that much harder. But then being with D's mum isn't doing me any favours. However, I think to myself, do I sit around and ignore D's mum in the faintest hope that W comes back or do I get on with my life, see who I want to see and have fun with whoever I want to have fun with?
I think I need to sleep and just forget about all this cr*p just for one night. I would give a lot to have one day of feeling great without the prospect of a D, an adulterous W, a D without her step-mum, and the memories of the love I've lost hanging over me.
Anyway, rant over. I'm off to bed.
If someone wanted at all to be with you, they wouldn't leave to pursue someone else.
I think we should maintain our dignity and self-respect. We shouldn't need to plead with someone to come back when they don't want to come back. We shouldn't sit around waiting and hoping instead of using that time to enjoy our own lives.
It isn't burning bridges to drop the rope and let them pursue what they're pursuing. They're the ones who are burning bridges. sometimes they recognize what they've lost and are willing to put energy into the relationship and that's great. That provides a basis for success. But when you're the only one putting in energy, it won't work.
IMO. lodo
I know all of the above is completely wrong. I shouldn't be trying to initiate any kind of contact or wave any flags. I should just keep doing what I'm doing and if she wants to come back she knows where I am. However, I know she won't come back. And this contact is a little bit of desperation to try and say 'hi' without saying it to her.
P I think I misunderstood? I think I forgot the original reason for letting MIL know you are still committed to your vows was because you were worried about rumors going around about you and D's mum. So now I think of the 180 you've done from being needy and now you are confident and strong, so not bringing it up makes sense.
However, I think to myself, do I sit around and ignore D's mum in the faintest hope that W comes back or do I get on with my life, see who I want to see and have fun with whoever I want to have fun with?
Is that the only reason you would ignore D's mom? In case W comes back? Then no.If it were to not lead D's mum on, then yes. But if you are being crystal clear that you are only platonic maybe it is safe to keep hanging out with her....
(just checking that slippery slope :))
I hate to say it but as long as it isn't misleading D's mum, I seriously think it's FANTASTIC that your W's friends saw you having a blast and it happened to be with D's mum!!!
P I think I misunderstood? I think I forgot the original reason for letting MIL know you are still committed to your vows was because you were worried about rumors going around about you and D's mum. So now I think of the 180 you've done from being needy and now you are confident and strong, so not bringing it up makes sense.
I think we both forgot newmama. The original reason was to let MIL know that my vows are still intact and I am not seeing anybody else (D's mum or otherwise). However it became clear that I was actually trying to communicate with W through MIL covertly.
Is that the only reason you would ignore D's mom? In case W comes back? Then no.If it were to not lead D's mum on, then yes. But if you are being crystal clear that you are only platonic maybe it is safe to keep hanging out with her....
(just checking that slippery slope :))
Myself and D's mum have discussed this and we are nothing but friends and won't be anything else. She is actively chatting away to a guy she met online too and I'm supporting her in that.
I hate to say it but as long as it isn't misleading D's mum, I seriously think it's FANTASTIC that your W's friends saw you having a blast and it happened to be with D's mum!!!
Me too. Sort of.
You see W and D's mum hate each other. W said that D's mum is the one woman she could never trust me with (why I have no idea given the apathy between us in the past). Now she probably thinks we are back together. The other side of me think I really don't care what she thinks she knows - I know the truth. My vows are intact and I am not committing adultery or having an affair. Swings and roundabouts.
The last few days have been tough for me as I have posted in here. I think I may have worked out why.
I'm going through a period just now where all I think about is W. But not in the present tense. I am thinking about all the good times we had. The little memories of our life together. Little things here and there. Dreams etc. It's all building up and getting on top of me emotionally so to speak.
I did read somewhere many months ago that 'nostalgia' is another step on the ladder? From memory it's somewhere near the end (2-3 steps from the end). Don't know if this is true but there you have it anyway.
The rollercoaster still goes on but I feel the peaks and troughs are longer now than they were before. Before it was up and down very quickly.