Please please need some advice about "OM"

Please I need some advice. I'm a bit confused and I know you guys are the best to turn too since you all know the most about saving a marriage. So for those who don't know my sitch, H and I are separated, H is with OW and son. So the other day I realized something. I think that H thinks of me as old faithful and thinks that I will be waiting 'til he decides to come home. I feel that he thinks that its all about him. So I decided that I needed to pull the rug from under him. I told him that I am seeing some, the "OM", which was a lie. I just don't want H thinking that I will faithful just wait on him and like DR said I wanted to give the impression that I am moving on with my life. But DR never said that I should tell the WS that there is someone else. Now I am second guessing myself and not sure if I made a mistake for these reasons: I feel like maybe I've given up all my moral standing. H probably now feels like I am just like him and that its ok not to respect the marriage and to date other people. I feel like I may be givig H the go ahead. Then I feel like I've come down to H's level and am I playing by his rules. H has so many people around him just cheating and not being committed even OW, and now have I just become one of them. Am I giving the impression that I am no longer an different? I told H that I haven't slept with "OM" but he thinks that i'm just lying, like him I guess. Was this a mistake? Should I have taken the higher standing? Should I tell H that there is no "OM" or that I realized that seeing other people is not right since we are still married or should I continue to play along with "OM" existence? Please please give me some advice. I don't know what to do but will await until I get some advice.

Puppy Dog Tail, if you are reading this, I could really use some of your wise words.

Thank you all soooooo much.

vickyd- I can tell you that I do this same thing with my H. For some it works and others maybe not.

I know that it irritates my H to some degree but at the same time I know it makes him think because he is CONSTANTLY asking me what me and "OM" have planned from day to day especially when H takes D7.

He makes comments about me finding "love" with this OM in a way that I KNOW it bothers him.

However, I only give H bits and pieces of what goes on. I do make it known that I am not having sex with OM. Now I don't just come out and tell him that for no reason but I wait until he brings it up in a round about way and I tell him that I am not being anyones booty call therefore sex will not happen until I know there MIGHT be a future with such person.

But this works for me. Only you know your H best. I think some would see it as coming down to our S's level but I see it as making H see that he may actually lose me to someone else and that I am not going to wait around forever for him to come to his senses. Yes it could come back and bit me in the behind but right now that is a chance I am willing to take as I can't find anything else that gets his attention as much as this.

I hope this helps you at least a little. Keep hanging in there:)

Thanks Pooh. As you know our H's are the same and yes the "OM" is bothering him a lot. He keeps bringing him up. Eg. today he saw me and asked if I was going on a date so I just said that what do I look good and he said yes. His cousin even said that he's hurt that I am seeing someone. But then H and I were talking and even though I think what he said is games, I'm wondering if I am giving him ammunition. H said that he knows that he's coming home but that since I am seeing OM that I won't want to stop seeing him. I of course told him that I did not marry OM and promise to God so of course if we decide to work on our marriage we both would have to let go of other people. But I left feeling like I hate the fact that I am now on H's level. The lies, the cheating, etc. where are the morals in this world.
So I feel so unsure now that maybe i should have taken the higher ground and stand for what right. But I so hate H taking me for granted.

I think DR kind of recommends GALing and looking good and maybe that might lead the WAS to believe you may be moving on and not just waiting for them forever. Which I think is true for most of us.

I don't remember (could be wrong) DR recommending that you lie to your WAS. Besides the ethical problems with lying about something so serious, I think a lot of WAS might just feel less guilty about their A, and feel like the R is completely over and it's ok for them to do whatever. I personally couldn't do that, plus my kids would let my H know anyway, my d9 is esp. a huge talker!!! Karen

With your H saying he knows he's coming home but brings up you not wanting to stop seeing "OM"..........sounds to me like this....

He SAYS he is coming home and yet has not done that. Actions speak louder than words....he obviously doesn't want you seeing other people.

It is a tough call on what you should do. I try to make it light and joking when my "OM" is brought up. I like to keep H wondering and thinking and for me it works. That is why he only gets tid bits of info from me. I also don't want H thinking I am just going to lay down and wait.

I know Puppy could better help you with this. Don't do or so anything rash right now.

Hi Karen, thanks for the response. Yes, DR does not say to lie to WAS. I know I am so confused as to whether I did the wrong. I was so not comfortable with talking to my H with about his OW and my "OM". Gosh it all sounds so terrible... no morals. H and I have no kids but I don't like the idea of we both not respecting the marriage. I do remember Michele saying that it takes one to tango. But then I HATE the idea of H thinking that I'm waiting and available for whenever he decides to come back to the marriage. I was thinking the "OM" is a 180 breaking H's stereotypr of me. Ahhhhhh, so confused and not sure what is right anymore.

Pooh, I so need some words of advice from Puppy.

Puppy, where are you?

I do not advocate lying to the cheating spouse. You lose the moral high ground. If THEY want to think things because you're looking good and smelling good, that's THEIR issue, and I don't think you should go out of your way to reassure them. But actively lying to them about another man for you?

Nuh-unh. Will it work? Sure, most likely -- but it's a "quick fix," and I just don't think it's right.

But that's just me.

Puppy

Thanks Puppy. I agree that I now think that I have lost my moral ground. Please tell me what you think I should do now. Do you think I should tell H that "OM" is not true? I'm thinking that its too late for that now. Or, should I just say that I'm not seeing "OM" anymore or just leave it alone since I have already gone down this road?

I would just leave it alone.

Thanks so much. I'm going to bed now and will pray on this. I so thought I had thought this whole thing out. Thanks again.

Anyone other advice from other DB'ers would be so welcomed.

Hi Vicky,
I just wanted to say welcome to our board. There are wonderful people here, who are very knowledgeable. Unfortunately, when it comes to marital problems there is no "one size fits all" but we will listen and try to help.

Perhaps, if your H brings "OM" up again, you can say something like, "I've decided right now, I need to take care of myself. I need to figure things out and not involve someone else." I agree with Puppy though, if he doesn't bring it up, let it alone and not mention "OM" again.

Hi Yoyo,

Thanks for your advice. I like that approach. H has been bringing up "OM" every chance he gets. I even told him this morning that I believe in marriage and that I have never cheated on him in our marriage and then he said that well, you are now. There goes my moral ground right there. Ahhhhhh!!!! I so thought this was the right thing to do. I just hate him taking me for granted. I think I will take your advice and get ride of "OM". I don't think that it's actually getting me what I want anyway. It seems to be so counterproductive.

But how can I get this man to stop taking me for granted. Any other ideas? Should I just continue to GAL and not pursue him.

Thanks again.

I am in no position to judge, so understand that I am not doing that to you. I can tell you that I do not believe that anything positive comes from lying to your spouse. You can answer "yes" to many of those questions and doubts that you had......and I think you probably already know that.

The DR book does teach to move forward and to get a life. It even tells us to be vague and to have some mystery about us, but nowhere does it ever tell us to lie. You have made things much worse now and a whole lot harder for yourself. But, that is not to say you can't keep trying. I am not sure what the answer would be other than to just tell him that you had hoped to make him jealous by saying there was OM, but that there wasn't. Tell him you are setting him free to do whatever he wants to do and you won't stand in his way. Tell him you are moving forward. Then drop the rope. That is about the only chance I personally see that you have now. It may take some time before he comes around, but if he really believes that he will lose you, then it may wake him up and cause him to come get you. That is what you wanted him to do when you tried to make him think there was OM, wasn't it? Only, this way, you will not be lying to him. It seems to be the only way for him to realize that you are NOT like everyone else around him.....by coming clean with what you've done. Be honest, real, and humble and then walk away.

By telling him that you are setting him free, I do not mean to file for divorce. I simply mean to tell him you will not try to hold him back from doing whatever he wants to do. That often times gets their attention more than anything else. I hope it will work for you.

vickyd,

I have just read through this thread and I kind of cringed.

What you have done is lie to your H. You have created another possible boundary.

I like Yoyo's way of extracating yourself from it....or just tell him the truth.

The way I have seen other DBers go about it is not to actually lie about there being an OM/OW but just to dress up nice like they were going out and to act mysterious when their S is around them. No actual lies told but a real feeling of mystery created. I think now though, that after telling your H what you have, he will suspect one particular OM and will not believe you if you just try to act mysterious.

What you have done is just a symptom of your desperation. Don't beat yourself up about it. Deal with it and move on. We all have our moments.

((((HUGS)))))

Thanks guys!

Saffie, I have been beating myself up over this. I actually think that I'm going to tell H the truth b/c I can't stand the image I've created of myself. I'm feel like even if H and I don't get back together again, I at least want to kept my self image and my self dignity solid.

I know that I had sound reasons for doing what I did and I really don't like H thinking that I'm sitting waiting for his. But now that I've done this, I KNOW I don't like H (or anyone else that he's told that I'm seeing someone) thinking that I'm no different. So I think I will be a big girl, fess up, and be done with that. I'm sure H won't instantly believe me but at least I will get it off my chest. He may not believe me at all but it is what it is.

Hey, as Michele said, fixing one's marraige is a trial and error process so I'm just going to have to console myself to know that I tried and I err. So if anyone is judging my poor decision with this one, ahhh well!

Sometimes I just wish I could run away, get hypnotized to forget about my H and live and peaceful and stressfree life.

Quote:

So if anyone is judging my poor decision with this one, ahhh well!

I don't think many on here judge one another vicky. If we were all so great we would have no need to know of this place.

Just put it down to experience, deal with it and move on.

Vicky,

Your first three paragraphs are a wonderful, mature way to look at it. Way to go! $;\)$

$;\)$

Puppy

Thanks guys. It's so good hearing that I have your support and agreement to fess up b/c I was still here unsure of telling H b/c I can already picture his response and disbelief and that he will use this one against me. But it is what it is.

I swear on the other hand I just don't know how my H and other WAS deal with the guilt of their actions b/c I'm here feeling like crap about "OM" who doesn't even exist and they are actually with OP in living flesh. Unbelievable!!

I hadn't thought of it that way Vicky -- that's so true!!!

Oh, drama, drama, drama. But good drama I guess this time.

So I actually fessed up and it feels good. I told H that "OM" wasn't true. And I think I did it in a good way. I told him first that he knows I make mistakes too. And, I reminded him that when I tried this stunk before (yes, cheeseless tunnels I have tried this before). And then I told him why I did what I did, and then I told him the truth. But I kept insisting that he should know that I can get a man if I wanted to and that I'm not sitting and waiting for him and I don't want him to know that. But I'm just not into seeing anyone else and he is the only immoral one in this relationship. But the funny thing is that even though I said all that, it was still a very calm and jovial conversation. Of course, he said he didn't totally believe me and that I am seeing someone and I told him that I know he would feel that way and I don't care if he beleives me, I'm telling him this because I don't like that image of me. I even told him that even if we don't get back together that I want to keep my dignity.

But we had a great conversation with all this. He even talked about the fact that he does miss me and our life together and that he lost himself and he knows it and he stopped trying in the marriage. I of course said that I didn't call to tell him the truth to sway his mind, that we need to take things slow and one day at a time b/c we have a lot we need to work out first. Then he was telling me that he was talking to his barber about what happened and this old man told him to go home to his wife. I told him that the main thing we have work out is his son and what will be best for him. And he says he thinks OW will just og away but I told him that I know he won't be able to live with that and we have to do what's best for his son (this is a 180 for me who has been fighting against him being there for the boy). And I actually did mean it b/c I have done some sould searching and realized that we have to put the child interest at heart.

Anyway, the point is that I had a good conversation and I feel much better.

And for anyone who may consider doing this (Poohbear listen to this), H said that he was thinking about me with "OM" but he thought that he didn't want that to cloud his judgement and to make him decide to run back home. So, "OM" would not have gotten me what I wanted anyway.

So thanks all and I know this isn't totally put to rest b/c when I GAL H may still think maybe "OM" is around but lets see what the future holds. $\:\)$

Proud of you, Vicky. I know that wasn't easy.

As we guys like to say around here, "Strength and Honor,"

Puppy

Thanks, Puppy.

Surprisingly it wasn't as bad as I thought it would have been. But I really did feel good to get that off. I think it helped that H was in good spirit and we had a good conversation afterward.

It was nice to hear him say that he misses his "wife".

Thanks again. It's so great to find this site.

I'm listening to ya vickyd:) I think you did the right thing for you. As I said what works for one may not work for another.

I know you feel better:) Just hang in there and maybe things will turn around for you before you know it:)

I hope you realize that even though you fessed up to there being no OM, that does not mean you shouldn't go about town looking HOT HOT HOT, and creating a great life for yourself... busy with friends. And also, that it's OKAY to talk to other men.

When my H had filed for D and was determined to leave the marriage I let him know I didn't plan to seriously date, or get involved with anyone (I felt that if I'm still legally married, not only is this showing disrespect to the concept of marriage, but any new potential relationships as well. I'm a big believer in dumping baggage and being mentally and available to a relationship... not building a new foundation on weaknesses, but rather using strength to build it... hope that makes sense).

Anywho.... having a busy life (even if I was just dressing up to hang out at the bookstore!), and "trying out" the persona of a "hottie flirt" (of course I'd never give encourage anyone beyond conversation, and I'd only be out on an errand or with groups of female friends) allowed my husband to experience the feeling of losing a beautiful, outgoing, and sexy wife (not the boring soccer mom he had been used to!).

This helped me realize I was attractive to others, would be able to meet people and eventually, possibly, date again if the divorce went through. It also helped me rebuild some self-esteem after OW. I felt I was able to do without needing to pretend, or lie, or do something that would make me feel morally uncomfortable.

For example when talking with my husband (while wearing more attractive clothes then the typical soccer mom, perfect makeup... hee hee!!!), I'd insist that I didn't plan to date anyone for at least a year after the divorce... if at all!!!... but gosh.... I never realized I was so attractive and there certainly are a lot of nice, lonely guys out there.... hummmm

hi Vicky, read your sitch today.
When my H said he does not love me anymore and I need to move on (ouch), I said "I have moved on, just because I am not dating is because I chose not to date", "why should I just date someone so you will feel better about your R". H got very quiet.

Keep doing what you are doing. Look great, make yourself less available. I used to think that I had to make opportunities to see H but recently I started no contact with him for the last 2 weeks so I would preserve the love I still had for him. I think it has been harder for him not to hear from me. The more he spends time with OW more chance for them to start love busting.

You are doing great.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the advice and the words of comfort.

Runningoutoftime, I will take you advice and continue to have a busy life, which I do well. I make sure I do keep busy b/c if I'm not then I feel like there are so many chances to get down. I know with my GAL H will think that there still is OM but ah well. I feel comfortable know that I've cleared that up. Funny thing is that in my therapy session yesterday my T started to say that he doesn't agree with my "OM" idea and then I told him that I fessed up to the truth so I take that as God's way of letting me know that I did the right thing.

Hope, thanks for the encouragement. It is so true that I think that now that it has been 5 mths that H is with OW, I do think they are love busting. Hehehehe. He keeps saying "I miss my wife" which I do like hearing. But I think he is trapped b/c she got evicted and has no job. But that's H's mess to figure out and if he does want his wife back he will figure it out. Not my worries. I feel all I can do is sit back and relax until he does, if he does. Will have to see.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I will try to get back to limited contact b/c H and I have been talking almost daily and I want him to miss me even more!!! And, I also want to break this love triangle.

Vickyd,

You have a great attitude. You sound like a winner to me (even if your H loses!). Look great, be happy, be a great listener and positive when he's around (like a good friend would be), and he will quickly realize he made the stupidest mistake in his life (which it sounds like he's doing!).

Being stuck with some loser who must resort to finding a confused married guy for a date, then gets evicted and loses her job!!! Yikes!!!! Sounds like a nightmare to me. Just be glad you aren't in his situation.

Hi Running,

Thanks for the words of comfort. I am trying really hard to keep my head up and to do the right thing with DB but it is so hard isn't it? Like today, I kinda feel like I might have made a mistake but who knows anymore, I sent H a text that said I MISS U! It came about even though I was suppose to be doing NC today but I got an email from a co-worker and was speaking to her about my marriage situation. She has been married for several years and have great faith. Anyway her email was a list of three phrases that can enrich every relationship and one was "I miss you". And it goes on to say, "Perhaps more marriages could be saved and strengtherend if couples simply and sincerely said to each other I miss you. This powerful affirmation tells partners they are wanted, needed, desired, and loved." So I texted my H and then I questioned myself maybe I should have, that's pursuing behavior, etc. H did text me back I miss u too. But still, you know. Ah, its all so confusing at times.

And yes, H has his hands full with OW. You know the other day I realized that sometimes we wish for karma to hit our WAS and it has hit mine and I didn't even realize it. H of course picked up someone who could feel his ego since I am the more successful one in our R. OW has no high school diploma, no job, previous child and his, no job, and NOW no where to live. When H left he was staying at his mother place but then when she had no place to live he rented a room for them. Imagine, from H and I having a 3 bedroom house and a rental bldg to him being in a room sharing with strangers. He hates it and although he says that he's there alone, I know that's a big fat lie b/c he is very clean and would not be living under such conditions. It's obvious to the whold family that OW will be the ruin of him if he doesn't stop but he needs to realize this I know. He basis all his actions on the fact that he's doing it for his son, which in a way I do know is true. He said he can't leave his son homeless, which I understand, but he also can't carry this OW weight and have a W too. So the bottom line is that H got way more than he bargained for and now I know he doesn't really know what to do and I really don't think OW will go get a job, but never know. Funny who said when he left was going to enjoy his freedom is now stuck and has no money b/c he decided to play the "knight in shining armor" for OW. But he is and will get sick and tired of it I know. With me he had a woman who was financially independent now he has a woman that other than her food stamps she depends on him for everything. Too funny isn't it. So in a way I need H to see what he's has been sacrificing our marriage for. Hopefully he will, but the future is so uncertain you just never know.

Originally Posted By: vickyd

Hi Running,

Thanks for the words of comfort. I am trying really hard to keep my head up and to do the right thing with DB but it is so hard isn't it? Like today, I kinda feel like I might have made a mistake but who knows anymore, I sent H a text that said I MISS U! It came about even though I was suppose to be doing NC today but I got an email from a co-worker and was speaking to her about my marriage situation. She has been married for several years and have great faith. Anyway her email was a list of three phrases that can enrich every relationship and one was "I miss you". And it goes on to say, "Perhaps more marriages could be saved and strengtherend if couples simply and sincerely said to each other I miss you. This powerful affirmation tells partners they are wanted, needed, desired, and loved." So I texted my H and then I questioned myself maybe I should have, that's pursuing behavior, etc. H did text me back I miss u too. But still, you know. Ah, its all so confusing at times.

Um, not really, Vicky. Seriously -- it's hard to PULL OFF, but it's not really confusing at all. You knew this was the wrong thing to do, or didn't you??? I think you DID know it was wrong, but you did it anyway, to make yourself feel good.

You set yourself back.

You know what they say about the definition of stupidity, Vicky. If you keep doing that, you WON'T get any different results. DBing is all about doing what works, and throwing out what doesn't.

Self-restraint, dear. And if you need to, COME ON HERE FIRST, and we'll talk you down off the ledge and smack some sense into you!!!

Puppy

So Puppy, you think I shouldn't have sent the text right? To be honest I sent it b/c it may sound strange but sometimes I think that the universe is sending me a message of what to do and today I wondered if this was a divine message. Yes, I know it sound strange but I do believe things happen for a reason. So with that reasoning I followed and sent the text. But I guess in hindsight it def was total pursuit mode.

I swear between this "OM" thing and now today's text I am really struggling with DB. I know I really need to back off.

Right.

Ok, I'll hold off. It's that H has been saying that he's misses me, so I thought maybe I should reciprocate.

I think "I miss you too" is fine. Just don't initiate.

When my H would say something remotely negative about his situation (he'd never admit missing me!!!), rather then admit missing him or being sad about him being gone, I'd just say things like, "Well things will get better...Life is great!" And then I'd just be super positive. The irony is that the happier and more positive I became, the sadder he became.

Hi vicky

Just wanted to let you know I'm following this thread and finding it very helpful. Thanks for sharing your experience. I also don't want xBF to think that I'll just sit around waiting for him to come to his senses. But I also told him I would never do to him what he's doing to me (cheating) so I want to hold onto the moral high ground. Think I will go the mysterious route and let him draw his own conclusions if his mind goes there.

I totally understand why you made up "OM" in the first place, and also understand why you felt you had to come clean. I applaud your efforts to save your M. Keep up the good work.

Originally Posted By: runningoutoftime

...
The irony is that the happier and more positive I became, the sadder he became.

This is why PMA works. Nobody likes to leave a happy person and happy people are attractive people. They start second guessing themselves when it looks like you'll be fine w/o them. It turn the tables on them.

Hi Pearlharbor, glad to hear that my experience is helping you. Yes, it just boils me that H is thinking that he can try things out with OW and then if it doesn't work out then back to his W. Pisses me off. I just wish sometimes that I didn't love him so I wouldn't want to take him back but the truth is that I do love him and I would take him back with conditions this time though. So I was actually loving the idea of "OM" until I started to realize how it made me look and I didn't like that outfit at all. I just hated the fact that H was telling people that I have someone just to justify his poor behavior. And then I felt like our whole relationship had no morals since "both of us" was cheating. So it feels so much better to be truthful to who I am. And by the way thanks for understanding why I made up "OM". And believe me, I was gooooood at it. $\:\)$ I had OM's details down pack. I'm sure H probably still believes me that there was another man but whatever. I think "OM" was helping him to relieve his guilt so he probably liked the idea of me seeing someone else. Acutally, he even said jokingly that he was happy that I had a friend. But now I think he was serious... it helped his case.

Running and Rob, so true and I'm going to try to keep my spirits up. Funny thing is that even before "OM" H thought I was seeing someone else whenever I acted happy. And he gets down and out. You should see him, he has a sensitive stomach so whenever he's around me and the guilt settles in or he gets uncomfortable, his stomach starts to act up and he stands there rubbing his belly. Too funny.

Originally Posted By: vickyd

I think "OM" was helping him to relieve his guilt so he probably liked the idea of me seeing someone else.

It's funny... there's a weird element of that and yet the reality of it would really put them in a strange emotional place. I remember my H originally encouraging me to date other people, but on the other hand... when he thought I might be seeing someone I could tell the idea really bothered him. I even remember once asking him if he might know of any nice guys at work he could set me up with. I explained that this way he could "hand pick" a great stepdad for his kids. That one REALLY irked him!!! $\:D$

Just found this thread and its really interesting. I also hate the fact that exh can play around with OW all he wants and think because I have a small baby that I am home 24/7 and no options to date. Honestly that is the truth, but he doesn't need to know that. Lately he has been asking me about my 'boyfriend'. I don't confirm or deny. None of his business but it does give me a chuckle because he is so irritated about it.

Hi All,

So it's official, aliens have taken over my H and have turned him into a ugly green mean monster.

OMG, sometimes I think I don't even know how I love this man so much or why I even still love him. So with H's involvement with OW and his son coming from the A, H's immediate family who are very close with me and my family have not come to accept the child. Granted in hindsight I think we all are wrong for not accepting the child fully since its not his fault but I think H made it really difficult for us to embrace the child by continuing his A, especially so openly. In any event, H has been holding a lot of malice against his mother b/c of her support of me. And in Oct when H was living at MIL, he tried to have OW and her children to stay at MIL since they had no place to live. Of course, MIL being the respectable woman that she is, said hell no and that I am a daughter to her. H was pissed off and said (what I thought was only anger speaking) that if anything happens to his mother don't call him. He has since not really communicated with his mother. This weekend MIL fell ill from an infected gallbladder and had immediate surgery. H's other siblings did not call him but I thought that it was the right thing to do so I did. OMG, he was so mean-spirited and uncaring on the phone. All he said was hope she feels better. I even told him all his siblings who were at the hospital and he said that's nice. I quickly hanged up. Then I was there seeing MIL so sick, I got so pissed off and called H back to confront him about his poor behavior. He then answered the phone meanly and I didn't even get to say anything, but he said I'll call you back. My God, he didn't even know if something worse happen to his mother. This was a man who use to cry when his mother was sick and now he just doesn't care at all. It proves that he definitely can't give a damn about me if he can't care for his own mother.

Is this just crazy? Does a man really give up his wife and entire family over some a**. I really hope OW will be there when he needs someone. MIL would be so hurt by all this if she knew how H behave. I will not tell her byt H's siblings are all looking at how he didn't show up at the hospital. I know he will really live with regrets if he doesn't get it together. But how awful is his behavior. I want nothing to do with him right now!!

Unfortunately, Vicky, this is very common. My wife is from a VERY close-knit, traditional Italian family -- talks to her mother EVERY SINGLE DAY. During my wife's affair, when her dad told her how upset her mother was, my wife told him "Well, she's just going to have to get over it," and then they didn't even SPEAK for over three weeks.

It's really sad.

Puppy

Where is the limit? H's mother is on her dying bed basically. I can't believe this man. I'm so appauled!!!

In a way, I sometimes want H and I to work this M out so that H can reconcile with his family too. I hate the way things are with them. I love my in-laws and they love me too. And I just hate how all this has divided us. And to think just the other day I was coaching H's mom, who is much less forgiving than I am, telling that she needs to embrance H's son and to be the bigger person. And now this. How mean!! Thank God for my mom who still tries to understand H b/c she told me that it's not that H doesn't care, its that he has to put up a front for his ego. But come on now.

Hang in there vickyd....our H's hopefully will come to their senses one day. That is all we can hope for.

Need to vent... I think I am growing to hate my H. I am soooo mad at him that I just wish that right now I truly wish I had selective amnesia to forget alllll about him!!! So yesterday I went to see MIL in ICU. Prettimuch all of my H's siblings were there to see her, and H did not show up at all. Even my mom and sister went to see her. And I was so mad that I confided in FIL that I called H and he was disinterested and even though I told him not to say anything, he told the family. MIL was upset and said what I thought wasthe worse thing ever through the oxygen tank: don't let him come to the funeral. I don't blame her I totally blame H for creating this mess.

He actually had the nerve to call me just now which he hasn't since Sunday and then acts like nothing is wrong. At first I said hello and then I hanged up the phone. He then calls back asking why did I hang up Why??? Because I can't stand you right now... but I didn't say that. I said very harsh that I was busy and can't talk to him. I don't want to argue with H and right now I feel like I want nothing to do with him. I've been thinking how could H walk away from 15 years of being together but now I KNOW he can since he can walk away from 35 years of being with him mother. This is really telling to me right now. I'm thinking that since H's family has gone dark on him I should too. Let be out there by himself, oh, I guess he has OW, his son, and her daughter to be there for him. Since he acts like they are the only important people we all need to leave his a** alone, especially me. I just can't believe him.

OMG, the best night last nigth. Just in case some of you have been reading my previous posts about MIL sickness and H's poor behavior, here's an update. So last night I went to see MIL and there I walked in and first saw in the hospital lobby was H's son with my sister in law. And there was H in MIL's room. He came through!!! I was so happy. This felt like such a breakthrough b/c H has been so distant with his family all on account of this whole mess. H was loving and caring to his mom. He said that yesterday at work he started to cry and he thought that he forgave he and decided that he had to come and see her. He plans on going today again to see her. It was nice to see the man that I feel in love with in full living color. He was always so caring of me and his mom. Although he's not so caring of me right now it was still nice to see that. So H was there with his son as well and at first I was very distant and didn't say anything to the boy. H and I had enough arguments where he told me to stay away from him. Then I remembered DB saying that I need to change my actions if I want a change. So H's sister and I were leaving and I turned back and called H who was also leaving shortly after and I talked with his son. Gave him hig five and all. It was really nice. H even filled me in on his life for that brief moment and told me about his job, etc. He even kissed me goodbye in front

Although I must say in the aftermath I felt awful. Seeing how H is such a good father to his son I was sooooo jealous. H is definitely the father I thought he would be and I told him that last night. He is so great with kids. His son adores him immensely. All I would think is that damn OW has my good man. $\:\($ I guess she knows a good thing. This was such an awful feeling knowing that H and I were trying for so long to have kids and then to see him with his son being such a great father. I couldn't sleep last night at all. I guess I should be happy for them but I can't help but feel sorry for myself. This just sucks in a way.

OMG, counting baby steps here. H just called me to fill me in on a bad fight his co-workers had. He's bringing me back into his life for sure. I definitely will try to keep my cool and not push too much. Although I did call him back to tell him by the way that I like his son. One of my goals was to bring H's son into OUR lives and to cross that bridge since I know a big source of our contention has been Htrying to balance two lives with me as one and his son which includes OW as the other. Hope this works. I could tell that H was happy that I said that.

Hi vickyd

I am glad that your H showed up after all. That is great. I think you did real well with everything. Just stay focused and keep it light and upbeat. Think before you speak:) And definately don't push.

YES Pooh, I definitely cannot push because I know H is the kind of person that if I push he pushes back. Funny thing is that I know this and still I push push push issues. $\:\)$ Thanks for the encouragement. My only fear as always is to not allow him to cake eat as he is capable of doing. Having me as his good friend and also having OW. That's why I'm thinking I need to bring son over on our side. And it is better for the boy to have his daddy in whole without all the guilt. let's see what happens.

How are you doing? I hope well. Fill me in.

Vicky,

I'm so glad to hear H came through for him mother (he would have eventually regretted that HUGELY), and that you guys are forging a friendship. Definitely keep being nice, a great listener, pleasant to talk to, etc... but keep those expectations low! Yes, he has you as his good friend and OW.... But let her be the jealious one who hates that he talks to you... and you be the healthy one who can be this giving and beautiful friend who can move on, focus on herself, heal, grow and be prepared for whatever the future brings. What's meant to be will happen...

If for any reason he does end up staying with her, make sure you are the woman he should have never let go of. The woman who OW can never live up to being.

Oh, thanks running. I am trying my "bestest" at this. I know H has enjoyed our talks and the encouragement that I give him on his work. So will see. I do like being the one that got away and OW cannot live up to me. I do know that and I think H knows that too. But will see. Will definitely try to keep low expectations b/c H has not said he's coming so.

Please, I need some expert DBing advice. I think I just had a clash of therapy and I don't know what to do. So today I had a phone therapy session and brought up to the T about having sex with H again. Yes, again. For those of you who've been tracking my sitch one of my goal is to not have sex with H. But this morning I was home from work and he was working in the area. He stopped in for breakfast and then he started to kiss me. And I tried soooooo hard to resist. I kept say no stop this isn't right and he kept persisting until I gave in and let go. I know I'm a sucker and I absolutely hate it. Anyway, so I told my T about what happened and his advice to me was that I keep letting H off the hook and that I'm not asking him what his intentions are for us. I kept arguing with him that my book says that I shouldn't be the one to bring up the status of the marriage, until he does. And the therapist kept saying that as his wife I have a right to ask these things. Then I said that I don't want to pressure the situation. He has to come around to wanting the marriage. He agreed but he thinks I should still be inquiring about H's intentions about us. Of course I would love to know H's intentions but I also feel like I don't want to rush or add pressure. I wish H would say that he's ready to come home, but should I be the one asking about what his plans are. But I don't think he has a plan right now. I said to the T that all he is going to say is that he doesn't know, and then what? Where would that leave us. I don't want to be waiting but do I have a choice?

So after talking with T I called H, stupid stupid stupid. I talked about why I don't want to have sex b/c although it feels good he is cat eating and having two women and I know that he loves me but he wants both of us, blah blah blah. All he said was ok we won't do anything again., and then I got frustrated becasue he wasn't saying what I wanted to hear and it was a frustrated conversation about nothing.

Anyway, I just want don DBers thoughts please. Should I really be asking H about his intentions for us? I feel like I just want to continuing to GAL and let it be. I know the sex is not good b/c it allows H to cake eat and then he thinks that I'll always be hooked on him. T thinks that by not putting some pressure on H that he will continue this for a long time. Thoughts pleaseeeee.

The funny thing is that before taking with the T, I was taking to H (after the sex not before) and it totally sound like him and OW are beginning to love bust. He actually told me that he told her that I was the best thing that ever happened to him. He was also starting to say some negative things about her and I listened and in my own way was enjoying it all, but I didn't say too much. All I said was that it may be the age. OW is 11 years younger. I was just listening and realized to myself after that I just need to continue being H's good friend through all this but then after therapy it just through me off my game.

Vicky,

As long as he gets getting the frosting of BOTH cakes, he's never going to choose a cake.

Your WORDS mean nothing to him, because he doesn't take them seriously. He knows he can woo you.

Puppy

I understand what you are saying Puppy but there was a lady on here - I think Butterflymom - and she did what Vicky is doing and stayed her H's BF and continued to have 'safe' sex with her H, as she considered him HER H as she was M'd to him, and gradually he found his way back home.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I just feel that affairs are built on a sense of entitlement, and this only fuels it.

I do agree with puppy in a lot of ways. That's why I sooooo want to not have sexual interaction with my H. And believe me I am trying really hard but yes, I keep giving in and it sucks. It really does stem from the fact that I do enjoy my H and we do have a good sex life but I know that he is totally cake eating and I want to stop it. I will try to work on this goal on not having sex with him. Although H and I are becoming good friends again, which I notice really only started to really happen from last month once I backed off and started calling less, I have tried to remove myself from H's life in a lot of ways. For example, I cut off some credit cards that we share, and even separated our car insurance policy, etc. And I so try not to call H too much and I keep myself busy. But the sex thing is a dead give away to him that I am still hooked. So I will kept trying my best to stop this.

Puppy/safie, what are your thoughts on what my therapist said, should I be asking H about his intentions for us. Seems to be against DB advice. Thanks.

I interpreted it as IF you're going to ML to him, then yes, you have a right to ask him that. But it would be preferable that you didn't ML to him to begin with.

I guess it's a simple matter of willpower.

Ok, sounds true. I actually did ask and I got the response I expected, or more so I explained that I don't like ML and us not being together and he said ok we won't ML again. But I could tell that it was a total BS answer. The T was saying that I keep letting H off the hook b/c I haven't asked him about his intentions but I really don't want to. In my own way I want him to stay out there with OW for a little while longer to suffer a bit more. See in my mind and the evidence has shown OW is terrible for H. He knows it but there is still a need of his that she fills. So I think he needs to get tired of the crap before he comes back. Otherwise he will come back and try to recreate the scenario of nice comfy wife and party OW. But it is how to make sure that he knows that he cas't cake eat is what I struggle with.

And yes, it seems like I have no will power.

Then it really rests in your hands. You have to decide without a doubt in your mind that you want your husband back and the only way you can do that is not to let him cake eat. You have to respect yourself before he can respect you too.

kat

Very true Kat. Ahhhhhh I hate when this happens. I always feel like I'm doing well with DB and then H and I form a friendship and then one thing leads to another. It sometimes good when there's NC but I can't really resolve things with NC.

On another thread -- I think it was H4H's -- someone said that "I guess you need to decide if you want to just be friends, or if you want your (spouse) back." Because the strategies, tactics and techniques are VERY different (in fact, they are OPPOSITE sometimes)!

The way you don't allow him to cake-eat is to not allow him to cake-eat. It's simple. Not EASY, but simple.

btw, I pray you're using protection.

Puppy

My now exh was a cake eater for our entire s/d and even after. He is still trying to be, but I want nothing to do with it. IMO, save yourself. He has no respect for you. NONE. He is just thinking about his overinflated ego.

Why should he have to choose, he has the best of both worlds? I lived it. Sex will not bring an unremorseful WS home.

Hey,

Had a crazy busy weekend so didn't get a chance to log into to DB. Just to clary some of the advice/points people brought up:

Startingover, thanks for your comments. But I can assure you that I am not using sex to bring my H back. Far from it. I think H and I had a good sex life so I know that sex isn't the issue why we're not together. If sex was all it took we would be happy as can be. But I know that's not it.

To be honest, I was kind of troubled by the advice that I should "save myself". I might be wrong but I thought this site and Michele's goal is to help people trying to save their marriage if possible. I have tons of people out there who gladly advice to move on forget about my M, but I looked here for people who were experiencing the same issues. And just to be practical, I think our WAS's mental state they all have "no respect" for us b/c if they did, an A would not have even happened. So, I was kind of pulled back by this advice. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for anyone to sugar coat things but I thought we were all here trying to give advice, endure the madness of our spouse, and possible save our M with PMA.

Puppy, you asked if my goal is to be friends or save my maariage. And I think its both, of course I want to save my marriage. I wouldn't even bother with DBing if I didn't want my marriage. I'm not really sure how being friends and saving my marriage is two different things though. I'm not trying to be H's best of friend right now where we talk every day, but when we do talk I want to have good conversations with him. Is that not what I should be doing, w/o the ML part. $\:\)$

Anyhow, with that said, I truly do think I need to exercise some self control. Believe me, I am try very hard to not pursue my H and to GAL and live my life.

Originally Posted By: vickyd

Puppy, you asked if my goal is to be friends or save my maariage. And I think its both, of course I want to save my marriage. I wouldn't even bother with DBing if I didn't want my marriage. I'm not really sure how being friends and saving my marriage is two different things though. I'm not trying to be H's best of friend right now where we talk every day, but when we do talk I want to have good conversations with him. Is that not what I should be doing, w/o the ML part. $\:\)$

They ARE two different things. Once a D is inevitable, and you determine that the marriage is lost, I think your goal shifts to being as friendly as possible with the one with whom you're going to be co-parenting for the rest of your lives.

And when they are fully committed to the MARRIAGE, and working on it with you, under a promise of 100% no-contact and transparency, I also think you should strive to be friends, even BEST friends.

But during the DBing period, it is my personal opinion that you should be businesslike, civil, courteous . . . but not overly friendly or chatty. And certainly not BEST friend-ly. That is my personal opinion; not necessarily DB dogma. I believe as Gucci does, that your spouse responds to you as you begin to pull away.

btw, I happen to share some of your frustration about just how far we take it on these boards to "save ourselves" ... "work on US", etc. There are a million self-help books and websites that will help you do that, and I DO think that the whole purpose of this forum is to help us SAVE MARRIAGES. I think that one or two of the DB concepts -- mostly, GAL -- have been taken to the extreme and some people think that we're here to save ourselves, and whether or not our marriages get saved is collateral mending, so to speak.

I happen to disagree.

Puppy

Thanks, Pup.

I agree that there needs to be a certain distance/darkness in DB, especially to make my H miss me. And I figure he shouldn't have full access to me if he choses to not be with me. But I do try to keep a friendship with him when we do talk. We have good talks and I want to have him to remember that about me.

Yea, there is definitely a thin line between saving oneself and saving ones marriage. When times are rough there is a lot that one does endure. But I guess each of us know to how how much we are capable of bearing.

Yep.

Hi All,

I haven't posted in a while, but I've been reading and keeping up on everyones current events. I hope things go well with commited with his wife's return.

Anyway, I decided before I try a new approach with my H that I would check in with you guys first. So I read DR and I'm now reading DB. I was up to the do a 180 section and liked what Michele said to do opposite to what I've been doing and see what happens. It got me to thinking that since dealing with H and OW all these years, I've been getting angry, making demands for H to stop, and the times we do S (except for this time) I was the one pushing H to come back home and doing all the typical things to make him come him. And like DB says he then does the total opposite and even more of it.

So I was thinking that my 180 should be to encourage H to stay out. To let him know that I think it great that he taking time to figure things out (even though I know its with OW) and that I'm enjoying having the house and time to myself. I was even thinking to tell him that its nice that he wants to be there for OW. Of course, this would definitely be a total 180 instead of fighting against the A. I plan on being happy about all this.

What do you think? Should I give it a try. I know it seems risky to me, but Michele said that 180s are risky. What do you think? Thanks.

I think 180s are supposed to be behavior/character changes...like if you were introverted/homebody, you become a social person; or if you never cleaned, your house now is spotless, or if you focused on your kids all the time, you now go out with friends, etc.

I think your 180 seems like a reverse psychology technique. No?

WDID, actually from what I gather from DB, 180s are actions and behaviors. Actions that are done to create results through trial and error. At least thats how I understand it. There are behavior/character changes that are needed for true long term effects, but I thought she said to try some new techniques to see what results we get.

She even said that some would say that 180s are reverse psych or manipulation but she said that doing more of the same unproductive things are not good practice either.

Let me know what you think. Am I totally off? I don't want to start another one of my crazy fiasco's and then realize that its wrong to do, like "OM". $\:\)$

Vicky,
I don't know that I would call the the 180's manipulations. Basically, I see it as a wake up call to improve the things that have been lacking in your life without stepping out of your boundaries.

Originally Posted By: vickyd

Hi All,

I haven't posted in a while, but I've been reading and keeping up on everyones current events. I hope things go well with commited with his wife's return.

Anyway, I decided before I try a new approach with my H that I would check in with you guys first. So I read DR and I'm now reading DB. I was up to the do a 180 section and liked what Michele said to do opposite to what I've been doing and see what happens. It got me to thinking that since dealing with H and OW all these years, I've been getting angry, making demands for H to stop, and the times we do S (except for this time) I was the one pushing H to come back home and doing all the typical things to make him come him. And like DB says he then does the total opposite and even more of it.

So I was thinking that my 180 should be to encourage H to stay out. To let him know that I think it great that he taking time to figure things out (even though I know its with OW) and that I'm enjoying having the house and time to myself. I was even thinking to tell him that its nice that he wants to be there for OW. Of course, this would definitely be a total 180 instead of fighting against the A. I plan on being happy about all this.

What do you think? Should I give it a try. I know it seems risky to me, but Michele said that 180s are risky. What do you think? Thanks.

Blccccch.

$\:D$

I think the true, DBing "180" with regards to him going out would be to not say ANYTHING -- no nagging, no questioning, no pouting, no pleading. Just GAL and maybe not be there when he comes home, or be less pouty or whatever.

But do NOT tell him "it's great that you're there for OW" -- no way!!!!

In fact, ANY conversation about OW should be off-limits.

Puppy

Thanks guys. Its good that I have you all to share with first b/c believe me, I can go off on a tangent and then realize in hindsight that it not good.

BTW, where I came up with this is that from what I read in DB, Michele talked about a wife whose H stays out late all time (like my H) and W always argued with him and then Michele advised her to encourage him to go out with his friends. Tell him that she has other plans and to actually GAL. To basically change the game/the cycle, and then her H actually change his habits. I know with my H this has totally been the case, with OW and other things. I find that once I push issues with OW he would then defend her, once I say positive things like about him being there for his son, he says something like he's very bad or something not so positive. Or once I argue, or pursue, he retracts on his position. So I thought about giving this one a try. I even remember Michele saying that for example, to help a depressed person, one should try not being too upbeat. Not trying to cheer him/her up. Give in to their depression.

Truth of the matter even if I tell him that go be with OW if he wants to won't he continue to. Would I be losing anything if I try something new?

I would never want to have my words "go be with the OW if you want to" to come back to haunt me. That addiction to the OW is strong, you do NOT want to encourage it verbally in any way shape or form. You do not want him to say to you someday, "Well, you told me to go to her if I wanted to. I figured you must not mind it that much."

Do more of what the books says in that if he is going with the OW, you leave the house as well...look good, smell good, GAL.

Got it. OK I think that I will hold off on telling him to go be with OW. My H and I are already S, but we do talk from time to time. I probably will try though to do some sort of 180 where I am not trying verbally to get him to move back. I don't pursue him, but DB had me thinking today that I should do something else, a "trial and error" per se and "encourage" H to stay separated, i.e tell him how nice its been to have time to myself etc.

Originally Posted By: vickyd

I don't pursue him, but DB had me thinking today that I should do something else, a "trial and error" per se and "encourage" H to stay separated, i.e tell him how nice its been to have time to myself etc.

Yes, but I think DB is more about actions vs. words, so instead of telling him how nice or happy you are, show him by GALing, having fun, focusing on yourself, etc. I think that will make more of an impact than any words you tell him. Karen

Ok, words and attitude. Happy me going forward!!

I actually must say, I've been trying to make sure that I'm pretty happy, some down says but I've been pretty upbeat. I know first hand that God works best in tough times! It just seems sometimes that progress is so slow that I'm always tempted to try something else.

Originally Posted By: vickyd

It just seems sometimes that progress is so slow that I'm always tempted to try something else.

I remember several people warned me when I first started here that the most important thing you can have when DBing is patience. I wanted my M to be reconciled in days or even hours, but I think it usually takes a while. A year or 2 is a more accurate time frame probably. That's why GALing is so important I think, to make the time pass more quickly and you even wind up having fun and becoming a more happy, self confident person, so whether your M works out or not, you'll be fine. Karen

A year or 2??!!! I was not thinking of such a long timeframe. I know when H and I separated I thought that I wanted a long s and I didn't want a quick solution but I guess I wasn't thinking that long. Ok, I guess a good reality check is needed here. Wow, a year or two. That's really long. And then I know people will be pressuring me to divorce for that long. Ok, panic attack coming on here. I guess slow is better than a rushed unstable solution but that's looong! $\:\)$

I read a quote today that I wanted to share:

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." -Dale Carnegie

Hi All,

Hope everyone in enduring with strenghten and happiness. Just wanted to say hello and to fill you all in on my status.

So again I think I messed up DB today. I was driving to work and I called my H and asked him what does he think about starting the divorce. I get confused between what DB said I should do and what my T said. He said that I need to ask H about his intentions and DB says to not bring up the marriage until he does (which seems like it will never happen anytime soon). I feel that H has pulled back again from me. He was before calling me to say hello and to fill me in on his life and now he just calls about business and that's it. I've been trying to stay not totally dark but dim with him, I let days go by with no contact. Anyway, back to my convo with H this morning. As expected, he says if I want to process the D then go ahead he will sign but I keep doing all the things and rushing things and it takes time to work things out. Work what out - - his relationship with OW? I of course told him that its been 5 years dealing with him and OW, how much more time does he need. He said he understands, and I said yeah you're always so understanding. He even said that he's tired of the situation and the stress of it all (I definitely think H is beginning to love bust with OW. Although he's been with OW on and off for so long, he's always had me there to give a secure life. Now its just him and OW to fend for themselves. Hehehehe. I like that part of this whole separation. He needs to realize that his unhappiness with his life is him not other people.). I said I thought you were leaving to be happy since you weren't happy with me and that you said you were going to enjoy your freedom. I even asked him what actions is he taking to work the situation and he prettimuch gave the usually response, I don't know. H even tried to deflect by saying I'm always calling in teh morning with some question. We ended the useless conversation with me saying that I guess its my decision when to process the D. He seems to have no intention of getting D but he also isn't showing any signs of working on the M either. It's been 5 mths since we separated and its seems like so long. Then I called back first to be nice and said see I'm not calling to ask hard questions but I sneaked in a question in the convo and asked him what exactly is he working on. He said "I don't know." The number of times I've gotten that response is unbelievable.

So, what do you guys think of the conversation. Should I have not call in the first place? Was I wrong in my approach? But as a DBer don't you just get tired of tiptoeing around your spouse about the issue.

My feeling is that he knows getting back with you would be hard work. He doesn't seem willing to do that work, so to get him off the hook he wants YOU to be the one ending it. It leaves him no choice, in his mind, so he doesn't have to choose or work.

Yeah, I do think he knows that to get back would be doing some hard work and making changes, especially dropping OW and he's not ready or willing to do that. And I can't stand that its been his default answer for every though question -- do what makes you happy/if that's what you want go ahead. And then when I do, you're rushing things. He's so frustrating.

Hi Everybody,

Just wanted to give an update on where I am. Of course no big change in my sitch but I've been alright, sometimes even great. I did have one interaction with H on Friday that I was not feeling so good about but through the grace of God, it did not turn into a disaster. I went by where H was working to discuss something with him. I worked really hard on keeping my cool although H said that I was getting upset and starting to yell, but I apologized saying that I want to have a civilized conversation and explained why I felt upset. Anyway, after I drove off my H, I started to cry in the car and wanted to tell him that he has no morals, he's the worst H a girl could find, etc. etc. And although I called H twice to tell him this, his phone kept ringing out. I pulled over, had a good cry, logged into this DB website on my phone, read a few posts and felt better. Then I sent H a text that I was calling to discuss business just to save the day. Thank God b/c I know now that I would have so regretted confronting H and being so emotional.

Anyway, so no real update. I feel really position about March and can't wait to see what changes will come this month. My goal is to detach even more from H this month. I realized that when I detach and it feels lousy that it also feels lousy for H too. Like last week when I was at the hospital visiting H's mother he showed up. I was in the hallway and left without saying bye to him. On my drive home it felt awful that this is where we have come to... the next day he sends me a text saying that he was thinking that on our wedding day I was the most beautiful bride. I felt like H was playing games to pull me back but I didn't give in. I sent a text back saying "yeah, I was looking real good. :)" So detaching seems to work.

All the best!

Oh, one other thing I had to share, a very interesting story. So my friends into problems their marriage. H left their marriage not because of another woman, moved away to his home country and then meet OW. I am certain that he didn't leave b/c of OW, they had marital problems that he cowardly did not address with her. My friend, driven by ego and hurt and anger did not want to DB and just gave up on her marriage. She completely loved and hated him at the same time. Anyway, her H's male friend, who i've never meet but don't like for obvious reasons, decided that he would be there for her in the separation. My friend and this guy started a relationship. She filed for divorce from her H and has since been with this other guy. They also relocated to her H's country but a different part.

So, on Friday, a got a phone call from a strange number. I didn't know the number so I wasn't answering it. I was on another call anyway. I ended my call and then went on with my business. As I'm sitting there at the table, I hear a wisper calling Vicky, but there was no one around. I picked up my cwll phone and somehow the strange call was answered. It was my friend calling from overseas. She called to tell me not to give up on my H. Her H and my H and I were all friends so she knows my H well. She had told me that I need to move on from H and she wouldn't deal with it. The thing is OM is starting to show his true colors, the fantansy of their relationship is dying and they are arguing like crazy. She said she told him that she had never argued with her H that much in all the 16+ years they were together. I was laughing to myself. I don't think she will end the R with OM just yet but I hope soon. I kept telling her not to hastily D her H and to give it time and to understand his point of view and love hurts at times, but her ego couldn't take it. Now she so misses her H. She did say that she doesn't regret the D because of how H hurt her and I said that she had a right to be hurt b/c they were hurtful things done, but love is in spite of all that.

Anyway, I told what happened as a message God wanted me to hear b/c I so was not planning on taking that call.

Combining my threads:

Hi everybody,

Just wanted to give an update and to get opinions. So I went dark and didn't speak to H for 4 days. He called me yesterday the 4th and I just didn't answer. He then left a message relating to our business and I got it but didn't call back. Anyway, came into work and saw that H had called twice for the morning. So I had planned on not calling him and then I gave him and called him back. As usual, when I go dark H tries to reconnect and turn the lights back on. He first asked how I'm doing and it seems like I don't want to talk to him anymore. I said chilling and he said, I know that- incenuating that I'm seeing someone else. Then I said see that why I don't want to be accused of crap. Anyway, I was about to cut the conversation and then he brought up doing out tax return. We had originally planned on H filing for the investment property and me filing for the house and he would give me half of the money to pay bills. But H has not kept his financial obligation to me at all in the 5 mths of S, and I have had to run after him for $$. I don't believe that he will give me the $ from his tax and then I feel like since he could run off and leave me with a mortgage and all these expenses to pay and just walk out of the marriage then he shouldn't have the privilede of the M. So I was nervous to tell him this but I calmly told him that I was thinking of filing for the property as well b/c I don't trust that he will give me the $ and that I have to do things on the house and I know that he won't want to contribute to and I wouldn't feel comfortable asking him for $ for to work on the house since he's not in the house. I told him that as always I will use the $$ to pay the bills off. He said he wasn't upset and that I could have everything all the properties. But I know he was upset. He then called our realtor to remove himself off/refinance the properties and then called me asking to make an appoitment with the realtor for us. The realtor is our friend and he knows too well about our sitch. Anyway I am not calling the realtor, H is just acting out like a little bratty kid. I feel that I no longer want to have H run the show with his bratty ways. Also, if H is in such a fog that he has dropped all his responsibilities then I need to be the responsible one here. I know if he gets all that $ from the tax he will blow it on OW and her children too.

So I'm standing up for myself! What do you think? Was this being too controlling? That is one of H's complaints about me.

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#1728764 - Yesterday at 04:53 PM Re: Update [Re: vickyd]
Puppy Dog Tails Puppy Dog Tails
Member

Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 6269 Nope. I think ya done good.

You're looking out for your interests, no more, no less. Besides, I'm betting that his "you're too controlling" complaints only started AFTER he began his affair? Am I right?

Puppy
_________________________
"Still at the end of every hard-earned day,
People find some reason to believe."

My sitch -- see "Chocolateeyes" at:
http://tinyurl.com/dhhpyb

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#1728768 - Yesterday at 04:55 PM Re: Update [Re: Puppy Dog Tails]
vickyd vickyd
Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 105 Yeap, Pup, right after the A. It became I'm too controlling... I don't appreciate him ... I think everything is mine... he needs to get his life together. And I am certain in our relationship I have been a big cheerleader for H. Now that I've been detaching he has been craving my compliments too.

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#1728769 - Yesterday at 04:56 PM Re: Update [Re: vickyd]
vickyd vickyd
Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 105 By the way sorry everyone, I wanted to put the update under my original thread. I still learning the site.

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#1728777 - Yesterday at 05:05 PM Re: Update [Re: vickyd]
Puppy Dog Tails Puppy Dog Tails
Member

Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 6269 Originally Posted By: vickyd
Yeap, Pup, right after the A. It became I'm too controlling... I don't appreciate him ... I think everything is mine... he needs to get his life together. And I am certain in our relationship I have been a big cheerleader for H. Now that I've been detaching he has been craving my compliments too.

Um-hmmm. What a shocker. NOT!!!

As I've said before, "You're too controlling" almost always just means "You won't give me space in which to conduct my affair! Wahhhhh!!!!"

Edited by Puppy Dog Tails (Yesterday at 05:06 PM)
_________________________
"Still at the end of every hard-earned day,
People find some reason to believe."

My sitch -- see "Chocolateeyes" at:
http://tinyurl.com/dhhpyb

Top

#1728786 - Yesterday at 05:12 PM Re: Update [Re: Puppy Dog Tails]
vickyd vickyd
Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 105 So truth and funny as hell:

"You won't give me space in which to conduct my affair! Wahhhhh!!!!"

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#1728805 - Yesterday at 05:31 PM Re: Update [Re: vickyd]
Vdad Vdad
Member

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 155 Puppy/Vicky,

Heh, heh, heh...Crack me up!

Hey on the houses...Does the investment prop cash flow + or - on the tax returns in the past? If it's positive it's taxable income (bad), whereas the primary residence is a dollar for dollar writedown of your taxable income (good). Let him take the investment prop and you take the primary if you want to "compromise"...

V
_________________________
***Getting up every day and learning to breathe in a new me. For me and my children***

Me: 43
W: 38
SD-15
S(s): 12,9,7
Separated-2/14/2009
My sitch

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#1728842 - Yesterday at 06:29 PM Re: Update [Re: Vdad]
vickyd vickyd
Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 105 Hi V,

The investment prop has - cash flow. And I actually don't want to compromise on this one. H has given me $$ twice in 5 months for bills that he left. Usually our tax return $ goes to something productive. In H fog, he will waste the $ and I know it. I have compromised enough on so much. Not trying to be mean but I don't like running after H on $. While in our R we was great with $$ matters and now I would be like the OW running after him. I don't want to compromise myself to that.

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#1728855 - Yesterday at 06:54 PM Re: Update [Re: vickyd]
Vdad Vdad
Member

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 155 Vicky,

I think I'm with ya.. So cash flow in real dollars monthly and are you able to come up with enough expenses to show it as a negative income (good) on the tax return (schedule E)?

I hear you if it's giving you cash every month! Don't let him off the hook on the mortgage by refinancing either, it's leverage for later. But if he will quit-claim off the (title)property that would get rid of his interest and put you in control. Rates on investment props aren't a great deal right now anyway..

Good for you on all of the other things as well. I am having to get real with my W right now over money, kids, etc...

Stay the course!

V
_________________________
***Getting up every day and learning to breathe in a new me. For me and my children***

Me: 43
W: 38
SD-15
S(s): 12,9,7
Separated-2/14/2009

Hi,

So I am in not such great a mood today at all, feeling really depressed and hopeless today. A question I've been meaning to ask, especially for those separated, DO YOU TELL FRIENDS AND ACQUINTANCES THAT YOUR SEPARATED?

I think I've been telling too many people that H and I are separated and then they want to get into my business and to keep calling to check up on me and of course the big questions "What are going to do?" What the hell am I to do in this situation. I must say I think I am also guilty of talking about my sitch too much. I mean not all my friends and very few of my co-workers know that H and I are separated but I haven't hid it either. I tell people and then sometimes I find that I've been telling friends why and then I leave the conversation regretting that I ever said anything/wondering if I said too much. What is the best course of action/ say nothing or be honest and let people know? What about friends you havn't talked to in a while? Then I find that I've avoiding people's phone calls b/c I know they are calling to find out the status.

Anyway, last night one of H's friends called me. He said that he was calling to get my sister's # but we talked for over an hour and now I wonder if he was calling to really talk to me about the sitch. H does talk to him so I was curious to hear what he has to say and figure he would have the inside into H's mind. He had a lot to say. At first he said that he hope H and I could work things out. He asked why we don't have kids and that is it something wrong with me and since H has a child it must be me. It was interesting to hear that H did introduce his babymama to him - I guess he introduces her all around. H's friend talked about how he doesn't like the girl. He said that H is confused. And then, the main bomb of the conversation was when he told me that H is "in love" with OW. He said that he thinks it started as a fling but then having the child must have them feel like a family. I asked how did he come up with that and he said that the way H sounds and lights up when he talks about OW and his son. Funny thing is that when he said it I really didn't feel anyway to me b/c I think from H's actions that he does love her too. Then this morning it made me so sad. I'm am doing all in my power to be so strong about this. I mean if H loves OW and she loves him and they already have a child together I guess they should go on with their happy merry life, right. I really have no business in this. I guess never mind the 15 years I've put into this R and the hopes and dreams I had of having a family with H. This really sucks I gotta say. God, I never thought thigns would have turned out this way. I remember when I first met H we were young I was so worried about getting pregnant and not finishing my education and now I have to deal with not getting pregnant, H having a child outside, and it all just ending the marriage. Then I was talking to my sister this morning who also asked what I am going to do. And I told her I don't know, I'm trying to focus on me and there is really nothing I can do. I told her what H's friend said that H loves OW and my sister said yes that's true it's obvious. Anyway, the point is that I feel like everytime people bring this up to me I feel more crappy.

I called H stupidly to discuss all that has transpired yesterday and today. Yes, I kinda know I probably shouldn't have. I tried really hard to use self control not to but I did. I told him first that regarding our investment property that if he wants to sign it over that fine but I'm not signing anything other than divorce papers and if he wants he should just get the papers and I will sign those but nothing else. The I also told him that 3 of his friend on different occasions have told me how he loves OW and he said that I can go ahead and listen to his friends and he tells his friends what they want to hear. And I said that I'm listening to him and his actions. He also talked about how when OW meets certain of his friends she tells him who he can and can't trust and that she's right. I told him to spear me the details of how good him and OW look out for each other. Anyway, we had a long conversation that I'm sure was a repeat of convos we've had before. No one knows that he's really not happy and that he needs to get away. And then he brought up how he felt unappreciated and you know what I told him that I understand that. Last night H's friend was talking about how all that H has is becasue of me and that he told H that the success he has is only because of his wife. Yes, that is true that I am the more ambitious and educated one, but I always thought that H did his part. I made things happen but H was the needed support. Anyway, H said that it didn't matter to him what his friends thought but it bothered him when I started to say the same thing. I won't lie in our sitch I did tell H after all I have done for him etc. and all that I do in the R. Natuarally when one does a lot and tehn feel unappreciated you bring up what you did. Anyway, I told H I understand how it must have been frustrating hearing that all the time from everyone.

So, I'm here feeling hopeless. I don't think H will ever leave OW. He even talked about he faults and said that she's a nice person and everyone have their faults. And no one should be judging her. Sounds like love to me. $\:\($

Sorry for such a long post. Needed to vent.

It is really strange that now after being divorce for 7 months, I am telling everyone. Before I just talked about it here and didn't really let it out any where else. I thought I am doing so good. Then at the parent teacher conferences, I wanted the teachers to know what has been going on and out it all spilled. Tactfully but spilled non the less. Wow!!

Vicky, I think you need to stop thinking about your H and OW. It will only make you sad. Think about you and what improvements you want to make for you. Then get going. It won't happen overnight, but you will start to feel the difference. I bet your H will even notice that you have taken the spotlight off of him, though that isn't why you would be doing it.

hugs

kat

Thanks Kat. I think you are right that I need to not even think about them. I think when other people call or ask that it takes me right back to them. I guess I probably need to just cut the conversations off? So you found it better to not tell other people. I think you might be right b/c I don't like talking about it, I feel ashamed at times, and then I feel added stress from other people. And nonetheless, even though I don't like talking about my S, I still do, especially when people ask about H. Sometimes I'm great about not telling though.

While I was still working to save our marriage, no I didn't talk about it. Now that it is over, it is like letting off steam. I had held it all in for so long, only a couple people knew the real story, not the one he was telling.

I was ashamed too. i felt like I wasn't good enough to keep my H. But you know what, after he filed, my Dad told me that he had a couple people come and tell him that my H was with someone else at such and such a place!! Chances are that he was rarely faithful. After his first affair 17 years ago, he never wanted to talk about it or address why/how it happened. It lasted for 2 years. Needless to say, I never really got over it and never fully trusted him again.

I don't need someone like that in my life. He went away because he wasn't good enough for me, not the other way around(like I felt and thought). I am worthy of being loved and respected and if H couldn't do it than good riddance. I think you should start looking at it the same way.

kat

Hey, this is the place to vent!!! We all vent here from time-to-time and geez, with all we go through, of course we do!!!

Vicky, I agree with Kat. I had a period of time early during the separation where I didn't tell anyone and then they would ask me how H was and what was he doing b/c he wasn't there, etc. So I was having to make stuff up like he was at work instead of with OW!!! I felt a lot better when I started being able to be honest and truthful. Everyone was very supportive. At first people did treat me like I had cancer, lots of pats on the back and concern, but that has gone away and now people are more normal with me. I do try to just tell close friends and family and not passing acquaintances, but sometimes I do, and darned if they haven't been through the same thing as me. And give me more support. Anyway, just think honesty in limited doses is prob. the best policy, but do what makes you most comfortable.

Don't focus on the OW and how much they are in love. I think from my time here, it usually seems more like an addiction, and within 6 months to 2 years, betcha it wears off and reality sinks in. Some of OW's good qualities he describes sound a bit controlling to me, and might wear on his nerves after a while! I personally believe that OP for one, don't have usually as good morals and values as the LBS have, not as much faithful or loyalty. You know if they'll cheat with your H, they might cheat with anyone in the future. So if you're looking at that as the foundation of a R, it doesn't seem very positive. The OW in my sitch has been married 3 times and cheated on her 3rd with my H. Both married and with kids. Do I think that R will last? Nah, but too bad. I just focus on me and the kids. I realized at some point I deserve to have a nice, faithful loving guy. So do you!!!

I am a huge believer in GALing. I keep so busy doing stuff with me and the kids that I don't have much time to focus on OP. Plus when you're GALing a lot, I find you get more self confidence and optimism too and positive feedback from others you're GALing with. So what GALing are you doing lately? Karen

Good question Karen, it actually made me think... so my GALS:

1. I travel for work here and there, so that's nice when that happens. I was in Wash DC earlier this week.
2. I get busy with our investment property... we rent out the place for parties as well. But that's with H and that is one of the main reason we still contact.
3. I exercise at work like 3x per week - gets me home about 8/9pm.

Not much else after that. I feel like I've been pretty busy visiting family and going with my sisters now and then. But now that I've done this list I think I need to add some more GALs in my life. I usually get home about 8/9pm. I was thinking of volunteering someplace or taking a class. I think I will look into that.

H and OW have been together now on and off for over 5 years. I think that it has gone on so long b/c H has always had me to provide for him and to give him the stability he needs. I know in my heart he needs to just be with OW without me in the picture for this to all blow up but I can't help but feel like maybe it won't. A big part of H's fascination is with his son (he loves kids) and I do get scared that what if they have another child. But I guess I have no control over that do I.

Thanks.

Those all sound like good GALing, but volunteering or taking a new class would be great. Really help improve your PMA and confidence. I have to exercise too, that's a really good one. I've found when I slack off a bit, I'll feel more stressed out and have a harder time sleeping and stuff. I want to start doing weights, I know I need to, I just never have gotten into that much!!! Karen

Hi Karen, thanks for the encouragement. I will try to add some other GALs to my life. Sometimes I feel like I don't do enough when I have those moments of feeling lonely and angry.

So, yesterday, I had a few thoughts in mind that I so wanted to express to my H. In the past when we lived together I would have immediately called him to let it all out. But I was good enough to not call. Was pretty close to though but thank God I did not. I figured why bother, it will not register to H anyway. So I figure that I would share these thoughts with you guys.

1. So H and I have our small little endeavor going and were going to work on his business next. I saw him working this weekend at our invstment property and he was doing such a good job. Anyway, I was thinking about what him and I always talked about that we make a good team. I did X (the financial part, the planning) and he did Y (the fixtures and handling the rentals). Anyway, it made me think about H always complaining that people think all our accomplishments was because of me, which it was not (I am more responsible but H was a great support and he absolutely did his part. The fact of the matter is that is have such low self esteem himself and was so weak that he had other people come in and break up us. He bought into they saying that the X I did was more important than his Y. Bull crap, we both handled our crap. And people being who they are did not want us to succeed so of course they played in the weaker people. Total divide and conquer tactic. I remembered when we got married that the pastor prayed that let them be a force to reckon with and now what.

2. H says that it only bothered him when I started to say the same thing about all that I have done and that everything was because of me. But I think it was more a vicious cycle. I did X and he did Y, he started to think Y wasn't good enough and treated me like crap so I brought up but I've been doing Xxxxx.

3. Then H said to me last week that he knows he didn't handle things well with OW and his son. And that he wish that people would have supported him more. But this weekend I was thinking that H is like George Bush, and H and I are strong Democrats. (sorry Republicans here). He made a mistake and went into Iraq thinking that they are weapons of mass distruction, found out that it was a mistake, and instead of owning his mistake and working to correct it, he changed the plan and made it about bringing freedom to Iraq, and inturn killed thousands and made things are worse off than before, and now almost everyone hates him. Same goes to H, he started the A, had a child, instead of admitting the mistake and working to correct, he stayed on the same track with the A, and now has gotten deeper in, made things worse, lost the support of his family and mine, and now wants support and is upset that he hasn't gotten support. Like Bush, if they had just owned up to their darn mistake, then we all would have supported and work to make things right. Oh, how I wish I could share this analogy with my H.

4. H talked about how I think I am better than OW (which I'm sure is her talking) and other people because of my accomplishments. You know... f- that!! At first I was feeling a little funny and constantly defending myself about this to H. But I just should give a rats ass. It's only because her and H don't have anything bad to say about me. Since they have no complains, it now oh she thinks she's better than people. All my friends and family think I'm one of the most down to earth people. Darn I don't even like uppity people. I carry myself with a certain level of dignity and I admire progressive people but in no way do I look down on people. I know my H knows that. And he has been the one encouraging and uplifting me. Just excuses.

Anyway, I decided to vent here since I don't want to vent to H who will believe and buy into whatever give support and reason for his A.

Thanks for listening/reading. $\:\)$

Please I need help IMMEDIATELY. I so feel like calling my H to tell him how much I miss him and love. I was about to pick up the phone and decided to come here instead. I need a good reason not to call. Pleaseeee. I've been doing a good job of going dim but this morning I called him to tell him something about my doctor results. When I called he didn't answer and then called me right back. It was funny that he asked "you called me? By accident right?" I haven't been calling him much at all and he noticed. But I want to tell him instead that I miss him sooooo much at home. I want him back. (But, I don't want him back with OW still in the picture, I just want him.)

Please convince me not too. I know I shouldn't call but I am dying to....

Put the phone down. No need to undo any progress you have made. Nothing is going to make a person run faster than someone who is clingy and needy. You would sound like that even if you didn't mean to. Keep talking here, tell us what you would say to him just to get it out.

kat

Originally Posted By: vickyd

Please I need help IMMEDIATELY. I so feel like calling my H to tell him how much I miss him and love. I was about to pick up the phone and decided to come here instead. I need a good reason not to call. Pleaseeee.

You mean BESIDES that you've been trying this way for over a year, and it's not working, and you know in your GUT it's the wrong thing to do and will make you look weak and pursuing? BESIDES that??

Yeah, thought so. Suck it up, soldier!!!

Puppy

I just felt like telling him I love him and I miss him and I miss him at home and I can't believe we have come to this and that I miss our teamwork and prospering together and we have so many plans for the future and the house that we had so many plans for... Nothing I haven't said before. I think its just that we have been so dim that I feel so detached from him and I feel like I am losing him completely and I miss talking to him and holding him and sleeping next to him. I don't like being alone in the house. It's so lonely. God, I know none of this would make a difference to him probably but that dim hope that it will. But I feel so apart from him like never before in 15 years. Actually I'm sure that I want to tell him these things not to make a difference to him but for me to reconnect with him. I jeep trying to remind myself that when I feel detached he does too. But I guess he is so much stronger than I am b/c I don't even know how he is doing it being away for so long. We have a beautiful home and now I heard he is renting a room. HoW crazy is that.... I WANT MY HUBBY HOME!!!!

He knows all of that. You would not be telling him anything new and like I said why do you want to come off as needy?

You need to keep yourself busy and not think about him all the time. I know that was very difficult for me. I was in such a state last year for about 4 months, he was all I thought about. I don't know how on earth I was functioning.

He has to go through the school of hard knocks to see what he is missing. Be the better option, because that is all you can be right now.

kat

Thanks, Kat, Pup, and all. I like that Kat -- he has to go through the school of hard knocks. Soooooo true. I have truly made it easy for this man in our R. As you can tell I've been the R fixer. I think this is the school of hard knocks for me too.

Writing on this site helped me out because believe me I would have had that convo with my H today and it would have been the same old response, "I miss you too. Vic I know I know. Look I'm busy right now I will call." Yea, that would have been it. So thank you guys MUUUUCCCCHHHHHH!!!

I went to the gym, took a break and avoided this backslide.

Thanks again and I feel better now. I think that feeling as past. I hope. If not I will be back on tonigt. $\:\)$

How long does DB take again??? Is there a fast-pass like Disney World? $\:\)$

Don't I wish!! My marriage didn't make it but I didn't find this site until he had already filed and had been out of the house for over a year.

I know I have saved myself and hopefully my kids from a lot of extra heartache that I would have had if I hadn't come here. I was already in individual counseling and that was helping but I felt pretty alone. While it is hard to see so many others face the same stuff, it does help to not have to go it alone.

I also think because I self evaluated a lot, I will do better the next time around.

Stay strong.

kat

Try something different. Don't pursue at all!! Not one bit unless its an emergency. It hasn't done you one bit of good so far and he did notice when you pulled away.

Ok, I made it through yesterday without calling him. Thanks again. I think I haven't shown signs of pursuit for days now, maybe weeks. He is noticing and he actually isn't pursuing me either, which hurts. It's hard that I know in my heart I need to pull back and let my H see what it's like without Vic since he got to totally taking me for granted. I just keep praying to God for strenght and to make a change in me as well as in him.

Yes, my pursuing, begging did nothing for me, and I did plenty of that over these years. Definitely need to do this. I sometimes get so scared of my own weakness for this man.

I think the "give-up" blues is circulating today. I'm reading so many posts with people feeling like its all a waste of time. I'm there with all of you. Last night my MIL told me that H went by with his "family" on Saturday, OW's daughter and his son. It all just made me so mad and really hurt again. He has totally moved on with his family. I then I feel like doing the math, it's me alone and with OW there are three people, which includes his blood - his son. I'm am truly just wasting my time. I really can't believe that this is where we have come after 15 years. Sometimes I laugh that when I met H, OW was 9 years old. Who would have thought this 9yo would have come and broke us up. I know ending us was H's decision but I also know OW played a big part.

Again this morning I was thankful for the people on this board that made me not call H earlier this week. I would have totally regretted that. Obviously I am running after a man that doesn't want to be with me. I feel like such a fool. In my own depressed state I sometimes feel like OW and her friends must be laughing at me. There is my H doing so much for her, loving her and her children and there I am like the fool running after him.

Anyway, since the runaway blues is circulating I wanted to share the daily motivation I got today via email. It gave me some encourgement and I hope it does the same for someone else today.

There's Nothing too Hard for Him
Today's Scripture
"Is any thing too hard for the LORD?..." (Genesis 18:14, KJV).
Today's Word from Joel and Victoria
In Genesis, God promised Sarah that she was going to have a child. At first she didn�t believe it. She thought she was too old. She thought her time had passed. But do you know what God said to her? He simply asked, �Sarah, is there anything too hard for the Lord?� I believe God is saying the same thing to us today. �Is there anything too hard for Me?�
Do you think your dreams are too big for God to bring to pass? Do you think that a relationship is too far gone for God to restore it? Do you think you have to just live with sickness the rest of your life? Get a new vision today because there is nothing too hard for God! God is saying today, �I am all-powerful. I can turn any situation around.� It doesn�t matter what things look like in the natural, we serve a supernatural God. The Amplified version puts it this way, �Is there anything too wonderful for the Lord?� The next time you think, �That�s just too good to be true,� remember, God wants to bless you beyond your wildest dreams. Take the limits off and dare to believe that He has wonderful things in store for you!
A Prayer for Today
Heavenly Father, I choose to trust You with my whole heart. I know there is nothing too hard for You. Help me to stand strong in faith and keep me close to You all the days of my life. In Jesus� Name. Amen.

Ok, need your opinion here. I never know what is right to do anymore. So I have two jobs around the house that I need done: fix a cable line and put up an LCD TV on the wall and to assemble a cabinet shelf. H is very handy and he normally does these things for around the house. Should I ask him?

My mom and friend thinks that I should ask him to do them still since he has all the time to run around with OW and I shouldn't worry about getting him to do this for me. My mom's opinion is that I am still his wife and at some point he will need me and that even if something should happen to him I would be the one that would have to take care of him. I did mention to H about the cable and he said he would take care of it for me. No date given but that's usually him. My alternative is to get the cable company to come out and I would have to pay them and I would then have to get my contractor who I would have to tip.

So should I get H? On my hand, I feel like why should I have to put out $$ when his butt is there and I have done plenty for him and he worked out on me. Then on the other hand I don't want to come across needy. Opinions please!! Thanks.

Hi Vicky,

We haven't chatted before but just came across your question.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that if you have asked him and he hasn't done it, then have it done yourself with cable guy or whoever. Ask around for a handyman in the neighborhood that might be able to do both jobs for you.

I think that if your H has not done it already, it usually means he doesn't want to do it but because maybe he is passive agressive, he won't come right out and say so. Also, if you ask him again, it will come across as 'nagging' again.

So show him that you don't need him for everything. That you are a strong, independent woman who can get things done. The more you show that you don't 'need' him, the more it will get his attention now, I think. But this is only one woman's opinion. Good luck!

Thanks PM. Look forward to chatting with you more.

Just to clarify I mentioned it to H on Thurs. and what I do know about him is it takes forever to get around to things and with this one I think it is just his usual not getting to it yet. So I'm not so worried about him not responding yet b/c that's his usually method. Eg. for fours weeks or more the bells at our investment property wasn't working. He kept getting to it but never did. I got tired of the complaints so I got the electrician to fix it.

If I ask again I would get a date and I guess if he doesn't come through then I would go get my stuff done otherwise. Is that a good plan. But I'm unsure if I even should have asked in the first place.

I think you did fine. I agree with PM, but if you just asked him Thursday I would give him a week or 2 to allow him time to do it. Then if he doesn't, I think you should just call the cable company. Maybe next time you could ask if he wanted to fix it or have you call someone which he prefers? I do think trying to be independent is very important, but sometimes if $$ is tight, that might be a consideration too. Karen

Thanks Karen. I really appreciate and value you all's opinions. Sometimes I feel like I never know what's right anymore. $\:\)$

Sometimes I think it's easier to see other people's sitch more clearly than your own, which is weird. Karen

So true Karen. I think its because while in our sitch we worry about doing the right thing since we want it to work, at least that's the case for me. I think I have made so many mistakes before DB and even while DB that I don't want to make anymore. Its great having you guys here to bounce ideas off of.

Just popping in because I had a similar sitch today with a broken furnace. I tried to fix it on my own with no luck. If any of my handful of friends had been around this weekend I would have called them, but no luck there. So I ended up asking xBF to come over to take a look.

Turns out he couldn't fix it either and I will have to call a repairman tomorrow. The end result is that I feel bad about myself for having to ask him to do anything for me. Now I wonder if he sees me as needy - so not what I want! And I'm still living in a cold house.

If you have a friend you can trade favors with, do that. Or if you can scrape up the money have a handyman come over to do those projects. If you can't scrape up the money can you have the bill sent directly to your H? I've done that in the past. I just think you will feel better about yourself if you can find a way to get this done on your own.

Just my two cents.

Thanks, PH. I asked my H to look at the stuff for me. I got a date of Sat from him and told him that I need a concrete date to know and that if not I will get someone else. He said he didn't have plans and can do it and asked that I just remind him saying "You know how forgetful I am". So will see what happens.

Funny I was thinking is it us LBS that worry about being seen as needy or do our WAS like being asked. Not sure. But I do want this to have him think that I am hooked in no way. I tried to counteract that by letting him know if he doesn't come through I will find other means. But I never really know what's right anymore. $\:\)$

I hear that. And of course I would rather xBF come over to fix something rather than pay for it. Ended up having the furnace guy come over this afternoon and he fixed it for $105 so it was better than I expected.

I'm not sure how handy you are in general, but I highly recommend learning how to do stuff like this for yourself at whatever level you're comfortable. I didn't know how to do anything before I met xBF. He's taught me how to do basic plumbing, electrical and building things. He even got me my own tool kit for Christmas one year! It's very empowering to look at the light fixture and say, "I'm going to get a new one" and install it yourself. Most of my girlfriends are jealous of this so I try to pass on the knowledge. $;\)$

Hi PH,

I totally agree with doing things for oneself. Even when H was here I always loved doing things around the house. I can't help but think for db, doing it oneself or getting someone else to do stuff seems to be a better idea. I'm still conflicted about whether I should have asked H, I guess in the back of my mind I feel like I should have but I did and will see what happens. Trial and error right?

Ok, can someone tell me what the hell is wrong with my H. I gotta say, he must be really in love with OW. So I was talking to h this afternoon and he started to talk about doing #2, a very silly conversation. Anyway, he started to tell me that he has Lysol wipes in his car that he uses while on the road for his job. Then he started to tell me that he tells his customers that he has to use them at home too. Gross!! Not sure if anyone remembers but I found out from H before that he has rented a room only in someone's basement (which I'm certain is with OW and her children). H told me that he shares bathroom with other people in the basement and that the guys there pee on the seats and he has to wipe the seats everytime, etc. Gross again!!! Is he for real? H and I had our own home in the suburbs with 1.5 baths, three bedrooms, etc. and he's sharing a basement room. I keep saying that there is no man in the world that can make me move out of my home and into such conditions. I know in H's mind, an excuse, he is doing this for his son since OW didn't have a place to live, but is that for real. Did he want to get away from me so badly that that is what he turned himself to. Strange enough OW wants to be so dependant on H and knows that he's a sucker for his son that I think she might be quite comfortable with this since she has H to herself now. I also think H has not looked for an apartment for them because he doesn't want to make it permanent so the basement room is just temparary enough. Isnt that crazy? Thoughts?

My thoughts are that your H is prob. addicted to the OW. I think a lot of our WAS are addicts or have addict tendencies. My H was a sober alcoholic, but had a string of addictions like triathlons, running, etc. Most of them did last about 2 years, so if my prediction is true...time is running out. The OW in my case is married 3 times, and her children are really messed up. Supposedly her 15 year old D is just the nastiest child ever. On paper these things don't make sense, b/c I don't think they're thinking. I think a lot of addictions like these are negative. My H is going through bankruptcy and foreclosure. I look at it that is going to put a strain on their fairy tale. I would never ask someone I loved to break up their family and go through that kind of stuff, so I don't think it's love. I really don't.

Karen

So not a very good day at all... but I guess I went looking for it and I got what I deserve. So, I've been thinking about going ahead with processing the divorce papers. Of course, I'm not sure because D is such a big decision and the decision to give up is so difficult. Anyway, the other day I called and told H that I want him to know that I will not tolerate this nonesense for much longer and I will process the D papers eventually and if he doesn't do anything about it then I will know that he is in agreement with going ahead with the D. Anyway, today I was not in such great spirit and I was really thinking that I need to go ahead and file. What am I waiting for really? So again I called H. I know this is all soooo against DB but I get tired of holding my feelings in and sometimes it gets to be too much all inside. Anyway, I called and told H that I'm going to file and he said "OK, bye" and I said that's it. And then he said that I should go ahead and do it. Motherf-ker!!! Anyway, I said no, I think after 15 years I deserve more than that. And he said look I'll talk to you later. And of course I got pissed off. And then he hanged up the phone on me. I called back to tell him off and he told me off... saying look I'm tired of going through this with you. Do what you wanna do. And then hanged up on me again. I was saying I just called to tell you one thing and there went the phone. And yes as the dumb mull, I called again and said more like yelled that he is not a nice person and I hope he gets what he deserves one day and called him an a-hole.

So of course I went into my crying freenzy. Called my mom and she said that I should not have even called him, I should just file my D papers and be done with that. And what was I looking for him to say, and I said no, I deserve more than Ok after 15 years. And I mean that, I'm not saying that H should say lets work things out but at least something else... sorry things didn't work out, something. That is all I deserve after all these years.

Anyway, then H called back like nothing is wrong to tell me call someone about our business who need info. Another DB no no, I was on the phone with my mom so he could tell that I was crying. He said that I told you I would call you back and I said don't bother. And its very likely that he won't.

Anyway, I guess I got the response I was looking for. Now time to look for a D lawyer. This has been going on long enough anyway so it is about time to be done with it. So goa ahead and 2x4 me but at this point I really just need some love and support.

Thanks.

Hi, I am sorry you are having a bad day and wish I could help somehow. Of course you are going to have DB no-no's and slip ups. We all do. No one has handled their situations perfectly, not us, and certainly not out WASes. My H has admitted to saying and doing some things wrong during our separation. It is freaking hard! And the fact that many of us have never been through this kind of thing and our emotions DO get involved, makes it even that much harder. We'd have to be freaking robots to never break down, never have a slip up, never have an outburst. It is human nature for Pete's sake and we're all human. So with that said, please please don't beat yourself up for blasting him on the phone, sometimes the words just have to come out. They just have to.

Now you should take a cooling down period and not do anything until you feel calmer obviously. Actually, my H and I were threatening D and Lawyers about 2-3 weeks into our separation, we were soooo mad at eachother, it was unfreakingbelievable, but not the right time to discuss such serious stuff. It IS such a big decision and as long as he and I are unsure about our future (even if it is just a little unsure) I think it is okay to just not do anything for now. I think you need to get your mind really really used to the idea and I think it happens slowly in stages. I think you will know when the right time is to get the papers going. I don't think you are there yet?

And you know, as angry as his reaction made you, I think the whole "do what you want to do" line is actually his way of rejecting the idea. Think about it, if he really wanted the D, wouldn't he say "okay, yes, let's do this, I am tired of waiting as well." ????? I could be wrong, but that is my take on it. "Do what you want to do" always has the ring of "I'm not in agreement with what you are saying, but I'm not going to show that I care one way or the other."

I don't know. Best not to try to interpret their thoughts though.

Hugs, hope you feel better soon.

Thanks newgal. I appreciate your comforting words. The "do what you wanna do" is my H's usual motif and it is so aggravating. I feel a little better now. I'm just telling myself I'm going after someone who God does not meant for me to have. I need to figure my life out though because this whole thing has been going on for way too long and now that H has been gone for so long (5mths) and he shows NO SIGN of wanting to come back I feel like I need to go on with my life. Then today I got to thinking that H is there with his son who he loves so much and to walk away from him now whould be so hard on the boy. And I don't think that he can walk away now and he knows that if he comes back to his wife OW will not want him to see his S and he won't be able to live with that and I just don't think he loves me enough anymore to even make such a choice anyway. It seems like all the signs are telling me to go forward with the D and get on with my life. I'm just so tired of this all.

I texted H and said "My bad, We've had these conversations way too many times. I done know what's up. Will do what I gotta do. Bye. Pl don't call. Thx."

I think one of the most important things I've learned here for me at least is the 48-hour rule. When you feel like filing for D or letting all your anger out on your H or sending a nasty email or whatever, just wait 48 hours and see if you feel the same. If you do, then do it, but usually 48 hours later I'm feeling a bit different, more calm or whatever. I esp. think you have to use that rule with filing for D, b/c I think if you're unsure you shouldn't do it. It's so hard to go through and so much crap I think you have to be 100% sure to do that. Karen

Thanks Karen, I get so tired of trying to DB and just want to just give up and let it all out. I know a day or two would have been good to wait. I gotta say that is one of the things I don't do well.... I'm always calling H on the spot to let whatever I think out. I so need to better control my emotions and thought process.

Originally Posted By: vickyd

I gotta say that is one of the things I don't do well.... I'm always calling H on the spot to let whatever I think out. I so need to better control my emotions and thought process.

Sounds like the perfect 180 to work on!!! $\:\)$ I find that GALing is really important too. Sometimes when I'm all steamed up if I go do taekwondo or do something at the theatre, or something I enjoy, it really helps me. That helps me stick to the 48 hour rule. And venting here of course. $\:\)$ Karen

Hi,

So today, AGAIN, I called H but to clear the air. I work up thinking about yesterday's call (to be honest I think lately all my thoughts have been on H and its just not good), and was thinking that lately I've started calling him more often. I haven't been doing daily but like every other day and the calls have not been positive. So I felt like I need to clear that up. Anyway, called H to at least clear up my freaking out yesterday so that I'm not seen as just the bad news bearer or someone who only calls with a poor conversation. Anyway, told him that I do have emotions and yesterday was one of those emotional days. And whoa he said everyother day you call me with something, he notices that its every other day-- I didn't like that. Anyway, he then said that he's been thinking a lot too and he also is trying to figure things out but he doesn't call me with everything. I asked him who he talks to and he said no one really. He may ask a friend for opinion but that's it. So we got to talking and he was telling me that a friend of his told him that he should divorce his wife. I said he may be right but why did he tell you that. He said because the friend said that there are too many problems and the friend doesn't know what he's talking about and that his friend said the only reason he's still with his wife is because of the kids and child support. The H said, but his wife is "not like you". Interesting uhhh?

Anyway, that said H started to ask me my younger brother and so I realized I should ask about his son. And we talked about him that how he wants to look like his daddy and he now has the same jacket and shoes like him and he always says daddy I wanna be like you. The we started to talk about getting his son into school and H said that I know I feel like I'm not doing a good job with him, I need to be doind more for him. So, this was telling for me though. Would H really leave OW and his son since he feels like he needs to be there and to do more for him. I think my situation is actually really difficult and H may not be able to leave and I don't even know if I can live with that either. I have come to terms with the fact that if H comes home I would want really have to include his son into our lives but I know OW will not allow that at all and it will get really messy. H knows that too. So, questions for those who have children and the strong bond, doesn't it seem unrealistic for me to think H will come home and not be with his son who he loves to death?

Anyway, H said that we need to talk either tonight or tomorrow. Any advice on what I should say or not say?

Checking in on you.

IF your H ever decided to leave OW for you or anyone else there isn't much OW can do to prevent him from seeing his son. Yes, she can make it difficult but legally unless he is unfit she can't stop him. But can you deal with the son? It would be a tough pill to swallow.

Stop calling him, stop pursuing him. It isn't doing any good.

((((Vicky))))

Originally Posted By: vickyd

Would H really leave OW and his son since he feels like he needs to be there and to do more for him. I think my situation is actually really difficult and H may not be able to leave and I don't even know if I can live with that either.

Vicky, your H does not HAVE to be involved with OW in order to be a "Daddy" to his son. There are tons of people that co-parent their children successfully without having a R. What are your feelings about you being involved in his sons life? Will you be able to be a part of this childs life and be ok? I'm speculating here, but maybe he is not sure what your reaction will be and that could be something that sways his decision.

Originally Posted By: vickyd

I would want really have to include his son into our lives but I know OW will not allow that at all and it will get really messy. H knows that too. So, questions for those who have children and the strong bond, doesn't it seem unrealistic for me to think H will come home and not be with his son who he loves to death?

Anyway, H said that we need to talk either tonight or tomorrow. Any advice on what I should say or not say?

If and when your H decides to come home to you, the OW will not have a choice. Your H has as much right to his son as she does and if he wants to stay involved there is nothing she can do about it. Having a strong bond with a child is different than being willing/able to use your child to hold someone else emotionally hostage, children are not bargaing chips. When its like that, its more about the adults and not the kids. The love you have for your children is different than the love you have for your S, so its not about choosing between you and his son. He may be convinced and my try to convince you as well, but realistically its not. Loving you doesn't mean he doesn't love his son, loving his son doesn't mean he doesn't love you. Not the same kind of love... My biggest question is, can you be a part of this boys life?

If it were me, I would think long and hard about what I can and can't deal with and then go from there. I'm faced with the same sort of thing, but I realized from the beginning that its not this babys fault. I don't want to be her mother, I just want to be someone in her life that is there to support her and watch her grow up. My advice, figure out what you want and then the conversation will go from there.

Hi Guys,

So had a busy weekend and am I now finally about to get around to posting.

Starting/Sugar: to answer your question before H left that was our biggest problem. I attacked the situation by basically presenting that its either me or them (son and OW), but no only me along I should say H and OW did also. OW is very nutty, she assulted me 3 years ago and we have had very bad encounters so I took the stand that I wanted nothing to do with any of them. I think this made it even more difficult for H. When we tried to work things out, H had pulled back on the A and his involvement with S but but was drawn back in. OW had made it absolute that she doesn't want to do have anything to do with her child as well. So the whole thing has been a "power" struggle I would say. I must say that H didn't make it any easy on me either -- he took the stand that his son is his business and he will take care of his business and pushed me out too. H was basicaaly trying to have two families and it was not a happy equalibrium. Now that I have had a chance to be removed from the situation I think I have better vision and understnading about my sitch and also in talking with other people here as well. But sometimes I do get scared and wonder how things would be if we got back together. When H told me about S, my attitude was that I have to accept the child and would and then H continued the A, feelings got hurt, OW is a crazy manipulative bitch, and I took the stand that I'm not getting involved in the drama. But I know that is just not workable. I do know that for us to work H can only have one family and his son would have to be a part of our family. Will this be easy at first --- NOOOO!! But I love kids immensively and H knows that. I usually bring my family and friends kids over to spending the weekend. I have met and I'm trying to start a relationship with H son as part of my 180s. When I talk to H now I show genuine interest by asking about him and one day I meet him and we chatted - baby steps. One difficulty now though is that now that H is deep in this A, he has become the stepfather too to OW's D. It's good that S now goes over to MIL's place to spend time but H also has OW D's there has well and to be honest I am working to accept H's S, but no way am I including OW's D as well - my heart is just not that big. I'm sorry. Anyway, long story short, like I told H this weekend, I don't wouldn't him to chose between me and his son, I would want him to chose to have me AND his son.

So next post, update on convo with H:

So H was going to come by Fri or Sat to talk. I decided to do some GALings instead of waiting around for him figuring if he plans on coming he would call me first. On Fri night he was taking care of our business and called me while I was at the movies with my girlfriend. he kept calling so I answered the phone in the movie and told him to text me. H hearing I went to a movie and he's there working got mad even though I think he only got made b/c I was galing and was not readily available to him. Anyway, he refused to finish the work and text me that I can't even take time out from being with my boyfriend and that he's tired from work and that I needed to come and mopped the place the Sat morning. I knew that he did that to "punish" me so you know what I just wasn't taking the punishment. On Sat I had plans with a co-worker to go to a dayspa with her girlfriends and I was keeping it. I did not go mop. At about 2pm the people renting the place called so I had to call H to give him the message and he asked if I mopped, I said no, and again he was pissed. hehehehe -- I was GALing. He went and took care of it. Anyway, so he didn't mention anything about coming Sat either and I didn't ask. Then Sat night a friend of H and I was having a birthday party -- really more H's friend. Anyway, I didn't even ask H if he was going nor did I tell him I was either. But I suspected he would be there and kinda hoped he would too but I told myself I was going to have fun regardless. I made sure I looked HOTTTT for that party. Anyway, got there and H wasn't there. I thought that ahwell I guess he's not coming. He got to the party like 2:30am (culturally our parties are late allnighters). So H walked in and greeted our friends and I stood in the back and the lights were dim in the place. He then noticed me there. Came over and gave me a kiss and said that I looked nice. I'm in California this week for work and he said he thought I was gone already. Anyway, I played it all cool. H said he was just poping in and was going to another friend's party but would be back. In my mind of course I was thinking damn if he was into me he would have stayed at this party. Shortly after I saw H walk back in. He came back and we danced the whole night.

Ok, the thing is H and I are caribbeans and so our dancing some would call "dirty dancing." It was getting pretty hot. Our friend kept telling H and I how happy she was to see us together at the party and snapped a pic of us. But then H called her over to take a better pic. I was trying realllllly hard to keep my cool but as a loving caring person it was difficult at times to keep it all in so I must say I was reciprocating the affection/flirtation as well. At one point I said to H we shouldn't be doing these things as friends since he kept kissing me while we were dancing and he ok don't kiss me then and I said jokingly you are kissing me. Anyway, so H and I left together and he was going to drop me my car and we talked a bit then. In the party H had said that he's been thinking about things too and he's mad at himself for how he handles things. We talked about that in the car and he said he sometimes wishes that he didn't leave and how he feels bad leaving me alone with all those bills and that he has problems and he thinks he needs to be alone. I told him that I do think he needs to take some time to be alone to figure things our, I told him that I loved him enough that I want to let him go, and that his problems he needs to figure them out by himself b/c no matter what woman he's with he will always have those problems. I also told him that I know I will be alright and that I'm not seeing anyone, I want to do things right by God and I don't want just any man I want the right man and I know God will he will take care of me by living right. I brought up my concern about leaving his son and he said he's getting big and he would understand and I just said that he would want his dad to be happy. He also said that he knows OW would leave with his son if he comes back to me and I told him he has a right to his child and I know he would feel good about not being in his life. I also told him that I wouldn't want him to not have his son on account of me. He said he would fight her he doesn't have the strenght.

Anyway, so during our talk it got a bit heated again physically and H ended up not taking me straight to my car. I know I know one of my 180s is to not ML to him and I know I so don't want to keep feeding this man cake but ladies and gentleman I was so enjoying the feel of my H that I just didn't care. We had a fabulous time. Doesn't it solve anything -- NOOOO. But H and I for all these years have had such a strong physical attraction that it is damn hard to break. In the middle of ML, H of course tells me how much he does love me and that he does want me to be his wife. But I take it with a grain of salt such it was in the midst of sex. So go ahead and 2x4 me all you want, I know that once again I have fed him some cake but that cake sure did taste good to me too.

This week I'm in California and promised myslef that I would distance myself from H a bit and do some NC. So will see how the week goes.

xoxoxoxo and thanks for all your support (and 2x4s)

-Vicky

Hi, I need someone to talk to... not feeling good at all. I need to run away fron my life and I feel so trapped. So I was in California traveling for work this week. The break from my life and troubles was so great. I felt so free and happy, all my hurt and pain felt like such a distant pass. Today I came back home.
Before leaving I called H this morning to ask him about coming by this weekend to do the cable tv work he promised and H asked who was picking me up from the airport and he offered to pick me up. And of course as such a damn loser, I was happy and thing wow H and I are making progress. When in fact he was just trying to be a nice person. So on the drive from the airport I told him that I just wish I could go away and live abroad for like a year or so since I have no kids or anything holding me back except for this damn house. I even told H that when I'm away i feel so free and being in the house alone is just too depressing. And I just want to sell the house and run away but where would I live after I come back. I know its running from my problems but this is what I want to do. Anyway h dropped me off by my mother's place to pick up my car and I acually could tell that it was just cordial and we were just friends and the feelings hurt so much.

I even gave H some books I bought for his son. I'm not even sure if this is against DB's rules of no gifting. But H had mentioned that he needs to start teaching his son so I bought some educational exercise books for him. H just said thanks.

Anyway, I got home and as I walked in I got so depressed. I haven't felt this way in over a week., I just can't take this feeling anymore. I started balling my ass off. I feel so lonely in this house. And then H's Macy's bill came and I opened it and saw that he went shopping again which he has been shopping like crazy for OW on his Macy's card. This time he bought expensive cookware. God damn, that means that H has no intention of ending this whole damn thing. He is building a permanent life with them slowly but surely. This all just made me feel even worse. I've been home crying my ass off all night. Damn I haven't felt so bad in a long long time I feel like I am back right where I started from. So I was feeling so depressed that I called H crying and I could tell that he was in bed and then he said to OW let me talk to "this girl". This f--king girl, your f--king wife. Then he says, what's happen, and I said what do you mean I'm here alone in this house and my husband is laying in bed with another woman. Then H said look call me back when you calm down. And I hanged up the phone. This all feels so awful, oh my God I can't believe my life has come to this. I feel like I'm trying to be civil and nice to someone who just doesn't give a damn about me and my feelings. No friend would hurt another like that. I just hate him. God please I need help I can't take this hurting anymore.

Of course I did not get too much sleep at all. I realize that my breakdown was caused by the re-established communication with H. I need to go dark again. God, I wish I could be completely dark more so I wish I could just erase this man out of my mind. I hate him so much right now. He's so mean. Who the hell does this to a friend/someone they have supposedly loved for so long. To hell with that little bitch and him. I need to look after Vic. I just wish I didn't feel so bad rigt now.

So question, is it better to not be friends with our WS? I mean are they really our friends if they could treat us this way. I think if a platonic friend did to me what H has done I wold have felt like this is not a true friend at all. No one hurts the one they love. You protect the people you love. I know very well who H loves and it just isn't me. I definitely will work on breaking communication with him, out of sight out of mind. He does it well. He has nothing to do with me and seems to be just fine, happy as can be. Anyway, just needed to vent and get things off my mind. I will try to make myself busy today so that I can put this all in the back of y mind. $\:\($

Originally Posted By: vickyd

I feel like I'm trying to be civil and nice to someone who just doesn't give a damn about me and my feelings. No friend would hurt another like that.

I think you are so right! I'm so sorry, but yeah, he's just cake-eating I think. I think it would be easier on you to go dim with him and try not to have contact. Make him make a choice. If he's going to choose OW, maybe it's better to know. I just worry about you and the having to deal with all this. NC makes it easier, you kind of found that out it sounds when you were in California. How are you doing today? (((((Vicky)))))

I'm doing so/so today. Not feeling so well this morning. I think I need to occupy my mind. He is definitely cake eating and I know that I have allowed him. I just feel like I hate him so much right now and yet still love him. And then it makes me think how much do I love myself. I just want this feeling to pass today and to get back somewhat even keal. Before I left last week H was all i was thinking about every minute. It was truly sickening. So just need to focus on me, but it so easier said than done. God, I got my Masters degree and it was easier than this. I think if I could just go away for like a year I would come back so much better. But my house and job and the house has negative equity now so it is so not feasible to sell now. Maybe I'm just trying to run away but it would work and it would feel so good.

Ok still not doing well today. An emotional basketcase. Called H to tell him off-- in fact I called to remind him that in 1996 when I was in college and I broke up with him. H had taken it very hard and had lost lots of weight. i remember when I saw him I went back to my dorm room crying becuase of how thin he had gotten b/c of how I hurt him. I had called him begging him to eat and telling him that I don't like seeing him that way. I was hurt because he was hurt. Now, when I am hurt, H wants to hear none of it. I told him that is not a friend. He then went into I kicked him out and I called the cops on him (yes, because H and I was fighting and in his ignorance he was throwing my brand new furniture out on the lawn. Broke them up and so I called the cops), and he said he wasn't coming back. Anyway, we got into this brief fight that I kicked him out because of his behavior. Then I brought up him buying expensive ccokware -- yes, I did. It's like I can't stop myself today. And of course he got mad at that saying I don't even know what I'm talking about or what's going on. Oh, he loves to say that, you don't know what's happening. I asked him to go ahead and just change his cell #, this was one of his favorite tactics to do when he tried briefly to walk away from OW, but b/c of son and other reasons he always gave her the # back. Anyway, he hanged up on me saying that he will call me back he needs to clear his head. And I texted him, "DON'T call me back for weeks/months. You r dead to me here on. In fact PLEASE change ur cell #. I HATE YOU!! We wer never friends to begin with." He texted back, "Ok thanks".

That's it I'm going dark now and I mean it!!!

Ok, I am going to give you a slight 2 x 4. Hope you are not offended.

I really get that you want to save your M. We all do and that is what brought us to DB in the first place. I have made and still make huge mistakes and backslide alot.

From what you post I am trying to see if your H is on the fence or trying to bow out with the least amount of drama or financial loss. Not sure. Either way he knows that all he has to do is snap his fingers and you are right back where he wants you. How long have you two been separated? How old is this child he has with OW? Seems like its been awhile and he has been with OW a long time.

I can tell you from experience that arguing and fighting with him and making him feel bad for leaving does not work. I sent numeous texts and emails pointing out how he abandoned me and the kids, how he walked out on his marriage etc. Your H knows this. He is choosing to keep on the path he is on. Nobody is holding a gun to his head. OW cannot keep that child from him and if he tells you that he is full of BS. HE is choosing to stay where he is.

YOU deserve to be happy. I am not saying to give up on your M if you are not ready, but for heaven's sake stop chasing this man. It will only drive him farther away. Get a life...on your own. Do things for you. Let your H see that you are over it and really don't need him. Come here and vent all you want but lead your husband to believe that you are blissfully happy and going on with your life. No more fighting. No more guilt trips. If/when he comes back, you want him to do it because he wants to...not because he has to.

Find someone else to do your work around your house if you can. Get other rides home, etc. If he offers just say thanks but I already have it covered. Do it with a happy tone and a smile. Make him wonder what the heck you are doing and why you are happy. Don't contact him unless its an absolute emergency. NOTHING. If he tries to engage you end the conversation in a nice way....you are just waaaayyyy to busy with your new wonderful life to deal with his immature crap. Always with a smile.

Your H may be fearful and confused. But he also may be cake eating as well. Sorry to be harsh, but I hate seeing you so run over.