He is leaving to be alone to THINK - now what?

Recap: A started in May, bomb in Oct, h never left home but continues seeing OW (PA turned back to EA after I found out and I trust him on that). He basically has been sitting on the fence.

Yesterday he said no one is happy currently and this cannot go on forever. But he cannot make up his mind. He decided to move out and be alone for 2 weeks to decide. During which time, he will have no contact from both women.

I am very scared now but I think this may be a way to solve this impass.

Now, what do I do? I guess nothing but wait. And prepare myself for the worst, I suppose. I am pessimistic and think he may be just doing this to preserve a good relationship between us for the kids. Then he will tell me he is staying with OW after 2 weeks. But that seems silly to go through all this trouble because there is really no need to. All he has to do is tell me straight out. So I don't know what to make of it really.

Any comments? (I may be just venting, but if you have anything to say, please do)

2 weeks. GAL, have no expectations AT ALL from him.

I sent my H to the apt after I found out they were talking again and he brought into our home when the kids and I were gone for a weekend. That was the weekend of 2/16 - he moved out 2/24. I helped him move literally. Packed up cleaning supplier and paper prods. When grocery shopping and basically help him set up home. I said I would not even considering filing for 4-6 mos so he could see her in the real world not in the fantasy bubbleland the lived in. We worked out a schedule for the kids he picks them up from school takes them home but one night he takes them to the apt for dinner. We had dinner at our home one night. He has taken them the last two Fridays all day Sat. and I have them Sat night. Sunday we tried to do something as a family. The point is he needs to have his kids because that will be real life D. The way our kids reacted just helped my case they are withdraing from him. I have been this GAL but loving supportive Wife and it took him less than two weeks to tell the Ow buh bye. I am not 100% sure he's done but he finally made a decision - the right decision in my mind. He wants to continue what we as a family have been doing without her around at all. See my sitch for her vortex life she has with her new ex and kids....ugly....

Bottom line is he got a taste of what a D would be like being without his kids and home and he did not like what he was seeing. Ow was pressuring big time to file and he hated that to. I think he thought I was thinking of filing (started looking at condos) but I never would have done it...

Cannot say this is how you sitch will go but you cannot hang on to him - let him go, detach and GAL they will all help big time!

Do you really want him if he doesn't want you? I know this hurts I did not want the apt either but he wanted to just file for D and I thought I still had a chance if we were just separated...

Yet again i find you in exactly my past sich OurCrisis! When my h moved out in November it was with just that professed aim - to see neither of us and to find out how he felt. LOL. In reality he kept in close contact with me (he had the excuse of the kids) and i facilitated this cos i was too terrified to cut him off. Meanwhile he also kept in touch with her whilst lying to me about it! I may be a cynic but i am pretty sure that a request like this is him manoevering for personal space to see more of her while he decides if she will fit the bill for the full time post. The good news for you is that like most males he has no idea how losing his home will affect him. The bad news is that if he continues home contact and visits you for cake eating sessions this truth will not dawn on him at all until it's possibly too late. Having been there, the only thing that affected my h was cutting him off. Reality dawned pretty quickly when he didn't get me for safe base and her for fun. Don't let him come into your home to see the kids - give him a taste of reality post divorce style. He gets to take them to McDonalds etc if he wants to spend time with them. Meanwhile YOU go out looking good - and no, there is no need to tell him where or with who. A situation for him to ponder.

My take on this is he loves you - but he's not feeling it at the moment. Too confused and guilty. His affair was interrupted before it ran its natural course and he's looking to resume it to make this mythical "decision". He has learned from past experience that you will hang in and hold on for your marriage so feels safe to dilly while he decides - he may be under pressure from OW also who believe me will see this as a golden opportunity. Keep showing your natural dignity, don't pressure him but explain your boundaries to him and stick to them. Basically NO contact with you until he finishes any kind of relationship with her. Where he lives is immaterial but he needs to finish this EA. Good luck.

See my OW (wow that sounds weird) was pressuring him to file and it bothered her how much time he was with me, at our home, doing things for me. She just wanted him to file. If I would have forced him to not see me how was he to see my changes (not sad, no clingy, getting on w/out him). I was afraid he would have the Ow all the time and get used to her. There is a fine line here and you have to think of your H and where he is at right now. I seriously doubt he has not talked with her. I was told the same thing for three weeks they get sooooo goood at lying... $\:\($

Actually I think an EA is way harder to get over than the PA...

They do not know how to be straight! I only asked for the truth cuz the lies hurt way more later on and he still continued to lie.

Since Nov, he has gone from "I have to leave you because I cannot leave her" to "planning to leave" to "I will leave to the guest room" to "undecided" to "I am gonna leave her" to "I can't" to "undecided" to "I am leaning towards you" to "undecided" to "I will be alone so I can decide to end everyone's suffering". I have let him seen my positive changes so he will have a positive image of me, i hope. Meanwhile, I know OW has been pressuring him because he has been with me a whole lot. I trust him to a level but would not be surprised if he is moving out to be with her.
He is sending mixed messages (aren't they all :-) because he would talk about asset separation and moving back after 2 weeks in the same breath. Reading all your posts clears my mind to assess the situation better. In some sense, I am "glad" that he is doing this because everyday he sits on the fence, the less respect I have for him. So regardless whether he is "deciding" or just giving me a "soft landing" before he officially leaves, it probably is all for the better.
Personally I think 2 weeks is a terribly short time to "think" because h is very independent and can really live alone without missing "family life", but well, 2 weeks is his own limit. Doe, your idea of no contact till he is done is good. Heartbroken, I will need to visit your thread on your separation. Thanks for telling me to GAL.

Just to update you with my situation. He found an apt. Far from our home and his work but it will work. I originally think he is moving out in a day or two but he is actually moving out in about 2 weeks. Geez, I thought I would have my freedom sooner!! (just joking). He told me he is scared, so am I. But I think this needs to be done.
He wants the kids on the weekend but since we are not telling the kids daddy is moving out but only working/travelling, we do not know how he can have them for the whole weekend yet.
We are also discussing level of contact. I am thinking no contact whatsoever, assuming i can plan everything in advance regarding kids so we don't have to communicate at all because I want him to miss us. He, on the other hand, wants to keep in touch every so often (to pick up things, emails, text messages, etc.). This guy really cannot let go. Any experience on what you may have done?

I know you are joking - but don't underestimate how much it DOES actually feel like freedom when they go. You are treading on eggshells and under loads of pressure - it will feel like a huge relief when he does go. Quickly followed by the "what's he doing now i can't keep an eye on him" jitters but there you are - no-one says doing the right thing is always easy. Well, the first time i let him come and go as he pleased. What a twit i was!! He had it both ways and no wonder he told me 3 weeks after moving out that he didn't miss me "at all" (no i hadn't even asked!). After i discovered he was STILL seeing OW i tightened right up. Surgically removed his keys - he didn't like that but then he didnt have to, he wasn't living here. Told him he would not be entering the house without my permission at any time and he would only see the children outside of our home as i didn't want him in it.
This was easier for me as he went to live in another house we own that we previously rented out and gave out to the kids this was for tax purposes. They were able to go there to visit with him. When he threatened to come into our home whenever he wanted as he pays the mortgage i told him he would need to tell the kids what he had been up to first and then we would see how they felt about that. He backed down immediately - just remember Our Crisis, however little YOU want the kids to know the low quality of their fathers current behaviour - HE wants it even less!! As you are not telling the kids what is happening i don't see how its feasible for him to have them at his new place. If he's still set on only 2 weeks(and i agree with you here, its much too short a time) then thats only 1 weekend to get through. Tell him to take them away somewhere maybe? A theme park or treat for the weekend? Visiting relatives?

Keep your contact with him as low as possible (you will be amazed at the excuses they come up with to speak) and ABSOLUTELY don't let him in for "emails etc". Tell him to be very careful to pack everything he needs 'cos he's not coming back till he's made up his mind to marriage with only 2 people in it. Anything direly urgent can always be hung from the gate in a plastic bag!
In my case OC, my husband HATED this treatment. He rapidly decided she wasn't worth it. He has needed a bit of help with the logistics of dumping her (they tend to be overly concerned for the tarts feelings at this stage) but with my help has scraped her off his shoe. He really needs NC or as little as humanly possible with you and the family to help him wake up and smell the coffee. Careful planning now will help you with this - post us on how it goes!

My h was/is the opposite - if I pushed him out completely he may have gone to the Ow entirely. H loved how low stress and caring I was when we talked - we still did family meals and he felt the old bantering fun times return. Ow was putting to much pressure on him again and I vowed to make myself the only positive light in his life for the moment. You have to decide what is best for you and how your H will react. I agree with the no sex until the 3rd person is gone though - that is totally having his cake and eating it too!

A wonderful book you should read is "Getting Back Together." It talks a lot about the positives of separation, and even explains why it's important to have enough time to think. heal and grow (two weeks doesn't sound long enough to me).

I used to think quite negatively about separation until I read this book. It helped give me another perspective. I hope during the separation you'll use the time for personal growth and GAL. Try to plan some special things during that time and really focus on you (and the kids).

And definitely let husband be. He needs space and you probably need it too. Probably much more than you even realize.

Root,

How 'bout 4yrs of separation, long enough?? LOL!

Can you tell me who wrote the book your mentioning, "Getting Back Together"?? Thats' one i'd like to read,,i'm having some big doubts right now!

Thanks, Kim

I don't see that as the opposite - going to her entirely is exactly what my h implied he would do if didn't play the game his way! So i pushed - and he tried it - and he found that what he had with her while "fun" was by no means essential to his life - but his family was. By this time Heartbroken i had already been doing family meals and lighthearted DBing for nearly a year. Yes he enjoyed it - had no idea how it killed me to make him feel good in this situation. I could see he was gonna sit on that fence for ever and i could feel my self respect and love for him both suffering - it was time to call a halt. This moment comes at diff times for everyone - seems like Ourcrisis may have reached hers. Doing it is VERY scary but also very empowering - a real taking back of control. She isn't "pressuring" him at all, she is merely stating HER boundaries, withdrawing and sticking to them. Good luck OurCrisis.

Doe,

You are so right - I never did consider the timeline. I know for a fact I would have been like you too. It was only two weeks with him at the apt. seeing her on weekends (when he did not have the kids) and I was already having issues. I would have gone dark in a hurry had he not told her buh bye as fast as he did. H said he did not want to hurt her - but what he failed to realize how much I was hurting each time he was with her (I was good at the DB thing - cool and GAL all the time - refused to show him my pain!)...

H was very close to leaving in Nov (we had separation agreement drafted up) but we had to delay because of all the planned vacations in Dec and we decided it's better to wait till Jan for the kids. I DB'ed lots during Nov/Dec/Jan and it worked. He came much closer to me than her.
But like Doe said about DB, "it killed me to make him feel good in this situation" and "my self respect and love for him both suffering". He knows everyone is suffering. I am losing respect for him every day for sitting on the fence. (same comment from OW, according to him). I would have DB'ed a little longer but h apparently wants to end the suffering. Hence the moving out to be alone to think. For that I have a bit more respect for him.
I am also at a calmer state now to handle whatever that may happen. H is very independent, my worst fear now is him going to OW, but also like Doe said, h may actually enjoy his freedom so much that he will just leave (may be not even with OW) and be alone. He is not one who craves family routines. Another month or so and this will be clear.

OC - I certainly do feel for you. Sometimes I wish my H would just move out to see what it's like away from his family. He did talk about it right after telling me about the A but now he won't go.. he's too comfortable. H has also talked about being alone and not even sure that OW is for him. It's so darn strange, isnt' it?? I really do think leaving shakes things up and at least makes them see things differently, don't you?

update. He is moving out today.
We just came back from a planned vacation, but we decided to stay in different hotel. He took the kids and had a great time. I was by myself and it was great too (first time in how many years???). I sensed that he missed me. At the same time, I know he is also looking forward to being single again. After he moves out, I think he will either miss me and comes back, OR he will enjoy his new independence/freedom so much that he will just leave (and may not be with OW either). I feel sad about this because I really want to tell him that having his freedom and staying in the marriage is not mutually exclusive (well, except for the OW part). But I will have to let him make his choice. I want my h back, but not an unhappy one. I also do not want myself to be unhappy.
Tonight we are going to my son's school performance. After that, I am guessing we will not talk for a while. I do not want to have any communications so he can really think on his own. H originally suggested this, but now he keeps telling me to "talk to him whenever I want". His speech is so confusing to me. Why is he moving out and still wants to keep talking to me all the time??? Sometimes I feel very confused with his actions.

It's funny when my H was moving out I too was preparing in my mind not to talk, not to have him over...it never went that way. My C said to always make every encounter end in a positive to bring you closer vs. negatives put a wedge in between you two...

major discovery (or not as I expected it)
He left last night. I dropped him off. This morning I went over early because I feel like I should give him a "proper" and "positive" good bye. I waited outside on the street and texted him. Long story short, OW spent the night inside.

I was VERY HURT. After I calmed down a bit, we talked. I told him I will not hear any more lies (all this living alone BS). His version is as follows. Rather than living alone to think, he has actually already decided to stay with me. This whole moving out thing is to give her a "soft landing". OW complains that she was not given enough time with him (he ALWAYS comes home). His plan is to move out per her request, convince her that he misses me too much and ends it. OK, I can understand that (this is HIS personality, OR is it the same with all MEN, ha ha). Of course, I do not agree but that's not the point.
I repeatedly tell him if he is lying, just end it right there with me rather than wasting my time, energy, tears, and feelings. He said he is not lying. He only asks for a few weeks to finish this. He still claims no PA anymore.
Now, I am VERY HURT (did I say that already?) On one hand, i feel like giving up with all the lies. I do not know with all these lies, how I can learn to trust him again. I told him I want him to be happy and I want myself to be happy, meaning I will have to trust him or the marriage won't work. With this, I am questioning if I can trust him again.
On the other hand, knowing him for 20 years, I am not surprised at all about his way of dealing with this, moving out, staying with her, and ending it the way he plans to. This is my h. Do I trust him again on this and wait a few more weeks? It makes logical sense as I have DB'ed so long, what's a few more weeks.
I just realized I am so mad because to me, lying means he is not showing me any respect. By lying means he is denying me the option to think for myself and make my own decision. That's why I feel so betrayed.
HB, so much for ending the encounter on a positive note. Lots of tears with my racoon eyes. Oh well.

Just journaling.
I am still feeling extremely hurt. I delivered a letter to him at work at the lobby, basically telling him that I will not communicate with him anymore because I cannot stand any more pain and lies. I asked him to call me whenever he made his decision (in a few weeks) Meanwhile, I told him I will be thinking on my own and trying to live a life without him.
I feel so much pain being betrayed again by his lies. He said he was going to be alone, but instead he is letting OW visits him (if not staying there). I am seriously thinking about leaving because I think I will not be able to trust and respect him ever again.
He did texted me a few messages after he read my letter. He told me he still loves and respect me and the kids but he has to do what he has to do (I do not know what this means exactly, probably meaning he has to properly let OW go because he did her wrong with the abortion stuff). He "promised" that he will answer any invasive question and agree to all restrictions when he comes back.
The thing is, I am starting to NOT care anymore about what he says, probably because I do not believe any of it. If I were feeling scared, I may be OK. But the thing is, I feel at peace that I do not care. I am actually thinking about how to tell the kids and considering child custody, where to live, etc. This is scary.
If he does come back, based on all his previous track record before this whole affair, it is logical to assume he will be a great husband and will be committed. However, I am worried that he has pushed my trust and my love too far this time. My love for him may have died with this last episode of betrayal.
I think I am still hurt. I will give myself a few days to think this over. Meanwhile, all advice are welcome. Thanks.

He told me he still loves and respect me and the kids but he has to do what he has to do (I do not know what this means exactly, probably meaning he has to properly let OW go because he did her wrong with the abortion stuff). He "promised" that he will answer any invasive question and agree to all restrictions when he comes back.

Am i reading this right OurCrisis - you told him it was HIS choice as to whether he came back??? After she spent the night there? Oh no, that was the deal breaker. He was leaving "to be alone" remember? Respects you? Bollocks. He doesn't and he won't as long as you let him make all the choices - he's incapable of it at the moment. So this is where i recommend you start showing some respect for YOURSELF. He is behaving like a teenager - he has to do what he has to do? Basically sounds like shag her while you wait on the sidelines to me in agony - where is the respect for you in that? You need to show him that there are consequences to his selfish teenage actions. No communication is a GOOD start - but you now need to find a way to tell him you are reconsidering your whole future together and he may not feature in it. You are hurt but you are also thinking very sensibly in my opinion - you are thinking what will be the worth of a marriage that he basically comes back to when he has exhausted his other options. He needs to show commitment SOON or you will value the marriage as little as he currently does. You are at a watershed now OurCrisis. I would advise giving him the above information - that he will not feature in your life if he doesn't give you commitment to no contact with her and i would give him a VERY short period of grace before the decision needs to be made - say 24 hours. He will dither for EVER if you will stand on the sidelines and wait!

Do you know what my h said when i found him in bed with his OW? (yup he had left "to be alone" too). He told me he HAD to let her sleep with him because he felt sorry for her - he had already decided he loved me more and to stay with me and he felt sorry for her and had to be gentle to her because i had "won" him - what a prize!!! Jerk. When i told him i wasn't sure if i wanted my winnings and needed time to think about my future he quickly discovered how very much he loved me - he panicked and booted her into touch straight away. He had been SO full of himself all those months he thought he had us both on a string, he literally fell to pieces when faced with the consequences of his actions. Be brave OurCrisis! You are coping amazingly well and if you decide you don't want him or can trust him again, you WILL be just fine.

There is where you can really decide what you want! When you finally get to that peaceful place knowing you can be without him and be fine.

My H was the same way - slept with her one last time so as to not hurt her feelings - but I said you were still hurting me big time. It was just that I appeared much braver/stonger due to good DBing. He spends one last nite telling her he loves her and still wanting to end it. I swear I do NOT understand these men or WAS's. The addiction is hard to break...my H is going on three weeks and is just starting to see her true flaws and some basic fundamental reasons they would not have made it R wise... I swear they lose any real rational thought processes with all the teenage love actions going on...He now says he would have been miserable in a few yrs had I allowed him to leave and D...

I hung in there and I am much better for it right now. Your sitch may be entirely diff - you have to do what is best for YOU! $\:\)$

Doe, I can just use your h's quote except for the last part when you found OW in bed. H also claims he loves us and have decided to stay with us, BUT, he had to retify what he's done to OW, using his weird logic. I do believe that OW's abortion really affected him a lot and he feels very guilty towards her. Either that or he is lying BIG time just to keep both sides happy. If he is really lying big time, I may as well let him leave.

I blew up this morning when he IM'd me. I already told him and written to him REPEATEDLY that I want NO communications but he still IM'd me (just to say hello). But I blew up at him, saying "I CLEARLY STATED NO COMMUNICATIONS OF ANY SHAPE OR FORM. WHICH PART OF THAT IS NOT CLEAR? WHAT DO YOU MEAN RESPECT WHEN YOU CANNOT EVEN FOLLOW ONE OF MY SIMPLE XXXXXXX REQUEST?" So now he backed off and do not contact me anymore. Personally I really need the time now to think if I want to work this out or not. And I do think he needs to really experience life without me to see. I am taking a risk but I figure "better now than later".

Doe, I did tell him after I found out that "it is his choice". I also told him, though, "I will be doing some thinking and starting to try to live a life without him". I did not mention divorce as I still am not sure (actually, I still want to try to work this out and give him a chance). But as I posted earlier, starting to plan a life without him.

I just want to say thank you all for giving me advices. Sometimes you know how women really needs to hear different or same opinions just to be sure. I am the type who needs to hear all opinions before I decide (I research everything to death).

Will update you in a few weeks or as I hear more things (hopefully it is less than a few weeks). Meanwhile, if anyone has any opinion/advise, please feel free to post.

The positive I see in this is that your husband tells you that he loves you, mine does not. This is the hardest thing in our lives that we have ever faced. I think you are doing a fine job. Only you know what is truly best for you. From my perspective I see that you are truly committed to your marriage. It is so hard when you believe they are not being truthful, I have caught my H in so many lies. Apparently MLC takes away their reasoning abilities. Who in their right mind would choose the OP over their families?

That actually is something I am thinking about, the ILU part. Even after this, I still am a very innocent person (is this the right term?) I mean, I still believe in that most people are good at their heart, I still see the good in people and do not see the bad so much. This has obviously mean sometimes I am taken advantage of. I also think I am a very honest and straight person so I may not be very tactful sometimes? H, on the other hand, probably believes that a little (or big) white lie won't hurt and necessary to protect people. This has been always our differences. I will say "This chicken taste awful." while h will talk about "the pretty plate" as an example. So it is very difficult at this time for me to really see if h is telling the truth. I am even doubting the ILU. I do not know if he is saying it just to make me feel better "while he decides". This I can see already will be a big issue to work with if we do reconcile. As for being in the right mind, I already threw that out the window :-) I really think at this period, h is "temporary insane". My h is always so logical, yet the stuff he talked about at the heat of the A, was so stupid that I am sure even my son can point out the inconsistency and mistakes in the speech. So yoyowife, it is really true to not let the speech/action at those times to affect you too much. It is difficult because at this current moment, I am thinking exactly all the hurtful things he said.

WOW Ourcrisis!

That takes A LOT of strength. You astound me. I think you are right he does need to see what life is like without you. I bet he did not think you were really going to do it either. He is probably upset and everytime he looks at OW it is going to remind him that because of her he is losing you. I honestly think this may move things forwards a bit, now he HAS to make a choice.

Take care

Originally Posted By: ourcrisis

I mean, I still believe in that most people are good at their heart, I still see the good in people and do not see the bad so much. This has obviously mean sometimes I am taken advantage of.

I can relate to this, as I am the same way. I worry too that my H will take advantage of me because he knows how I am therefore will know how to sooth me again and regain my faith in him.

HB, when you have time or want to, would you mind elaborating a bit on how your h needs to sleep with her one more night before breaking up? what were the details? did you know of it beforehand or did he not let you know? Do you know when he made up his mind, and how long after that he actually told you about his decision? How did you feel and react knowing (before and/or after) that he would sleep with OW one last time? Thanks.

Hi OC.. thinking about you. How are you doing today?

Originally Posted By: ourcrisis

HB, when you have time or want to, would you mind elaborating a bit on how your h needs to sleep with her one more night before breaking up? what were the details? did you know of it beforehand or did he not let you know? Do you know when he made up his mind, and how long after that he actually told you about his decision? How did you feel and react knowing (before and/or after) that he would sleep with OW one last time? Thanks.

I did not know before that it was the last time. Though it pains me that on 3/8 he told me he did not want to file and that he wanted to come back to me he just had to figure out how to get rid of Ow without hurting her too much. Despite he was still hurting me.

I was with him for a part of 3/10 and even said don't enjoy your night (cuz I knew he was going out with her that eve) - this was hard letting him go knowing they were going out to dinner and would end up at his apt. He was supposed to have been at our house Sunday by 10 - to be w/kids while I went to IKEA. But with the time change he was late - I called his cell it was off and I got really pissed and drove by the apt on the way to shop. He finally did call at 11 and said the time chg messed him up - I said don't lie and I knew he had been 'busy' he said no and I said I saw her truck.

I was so hurt though I KNEW that was the intent of the apt - to be with her and see her in the light of reality. H was upset he hurt me and then OW ex H was making her life difficult and their vortex of issues seemed to be getting worse - H knew he needed to end it with her b4 he lost me. So when I got back from IKEA he said he was going to end it with her - and he did.

When he called a few hrs later he told me it was done and I just was cool. He asked why I did not seem happy - I said it's hard to believe he was telling the truth and he said well his actions would speak louder and he was right. She called him twice since 3/11 but he kept it non emotional and she has not called since 3/19 and I think she's done. She knows we are working on us and we are.

I did not know he was going to be with her and I did - duh I guess that's what the apt was about him having total freedom. Sometimes DB makes me feel we are doormats letting these WAS just have their cake and eating it too. He needed to get his fantasy bubble to be busted wide open b4 he could really see the fundamental differences between him and Ow.... H now sees things differently and the addiction is wearing off... slowly but I see the changes...

What is hard now is I still have to be so patient and this is getting frustrated. He is getting out of the selfish mode SLOWLY but I need to slow it down. I just want him to think of my feelings for once -he has to an extent (guilt wise) but not fully. This phase we are in is fairly hard to get through too - I need to follow my own advice and just keep taking those baby steps!!!! I hope this helps you...

The Ow was a big time liar and pressurer - she REALLY wanted him to file and he would not do that without me agreeing - so she lacked the patience needed to keep H for herself....

HB, it's funny how your h is like mine.
IF (that's a BIG IF) h is telling the truth, he is moving out so he can finish with her, "with my convoluted plan.". Up to the time I broke contact, he has been really nice to me, AND trying to hide all his outings with OW (which i hope to take it as THEIR way of protecting the wife???) Unfortunately, I think OW (at least the way h painted her) is quite intelligent and not pressuring, smart like me (ha ha), h told me she is reading a lot too so I am sure she knows how to play the game also. NOT GOOD FOR ME. I am so afraid that she will manipulate him into leaving me for good.

HB, it is so great to hear from you. You keep reminding me to take baby steps and I am trying to follow. SO HARD!!! It is great to know about your details because it gives me some hope that h may be doing what he is telling me. I hope you don't mind me always coming to you for advice because I think your situation is just weeks ahead of mine so I am following your thread closely for ideas.

lonelyolive, thank you for thinking about me. I needed that, especially this week. I have been feeling TERRIBLE. And in a sense, this is worse than when I first found out about the A, because looking back, I understand it was just mostly crazy emotions. Now the feelings come from deep inside and it is rational. Don't know if this makes sense. The moving out really hits me HARD. I cry everyday. I am again eating very little, which I guess helps in maintaining my current weight, ha ha, since I cannot bring myself to exercise. At times, I keep thinking about OW in his apt, which we all know how that feels. I am for sure tossing that blanket that he brought IF he comes back.

H is taking the kids this weekend for an out of town trip (since they cannot see his apt). I will have some time alone, I deparately need some exercise to lift my mood up so that's the plan. Many of my friends just happen to be busy this past week so it is not helping in my situation at all (which is also why I am always here and posting).

Yesterday, for the first time, I asked S8 "if you have to choose, who do you want to live with, mommy or daddy?" "Do I have to choose?" "No, you don't, you can asnwer both." "Then both". Later S8 told me daddy asked him that question a few times already (but he forgot when). I will have to tell h today not to ask those questions anymore. A bad move from both of us to ask anyway.

Originally Posted By: ourcrisis

I have been feeling TERRIBLE. And in a sense, this is worse than when I first found out about the A, because looking back, I understand it was just mostly crazy emotions. Now the feelings come from deep inside and it is rational. Don't know if this makes sense.

OC - That makes TOTAL sense! I feel the same way. You don't feel crazy like when you first found out but the reality of the sitch has hit home. It sucks.

So, if this ow is so smart, why is she with a married man? Your H is painting this grand picture of her as another justification of his A. My H said that he doesn't always go for the "most attractive woman in the room".. i.e - ow is dumpy.

What is she reading up for? How dare her!!!! Is this a game to her? Some women are like that they try to steal someones husband just see if they can do it then dump him later.

It irks me that so many of our "sisters" have such bad morals and inflect such emotional pain on innocent women. If these skanks had more respoect for themselves and love then we would not have to worry about any of this. Why do they insist on treating the WIFE like she is the enemy and in the way of her fabricated bogus love?????

OC,

Did you husband reveal she is reading also after you told him you were reading? It sounds like he is liking all the attention of two women fighting over him.

OC:
Tried to send a PM to you but it says your box is full (or something like that). We have something major in common, but I'd rather not post about it. Is it possible for you to clear a PM so I can send one to you?
still hoping

OC

Feel free to contact me whenever - go to my sitch for the quickest response.

Even with OW out of the picture he is still going through some withdrawal. I told him he cannot come back to me out of a sense of duty or obligation he has to WANT to be back with me. H says he knows he needs to get rid of any feelings for her and work on the feelings for me.

I am pulling back a little and giving him the space he desires. It's a little easier since Ow is out of the picture (as far as I know right - there will always be that doubt).

She did move yesterday so now we will see if she calls since she will for the first time be away from ex H and he will have their boys every weekend. She's never really been on her own and I fear she will have the urge to try and reconnect with H. He says he is done but I think he needs more time to be completely over her.

I want to trust him but it is so damn hard. I am just getting tired too of having to be patient. I know I need to follow my own advice - BABY STEPS!!!! (Easier said than done!)...

still hoping,
trying to PM you but I got "user is over limit on private topic"
not sure if "user" is me or you. I have not used PM before but I will see if I can fix this. meanwhile, may be you can try to PM me again and see.

As for OW, I really don't care if she is smart, dumb or what. It only matters that h has feelings for her. H always have women around him for some reason. All the women like to spill out their feelings to him. I don't know why but that's the way it is. And it was fine for all these years. H goes on business trips for weeks. On the plane, flight attendent would give him numbers. nothing ever happened until now. I think in my situation it was just the environment, circumstances, ow all seem to be at the right moment for it to happen. I do not blame ow. it could have been another person. But of course, haveing said that, I wish she never existed!!!

That's the same message I get and I've never sent/rcvd a PM either...
I've set up an email account: stillhoping4now@hotmail.com.
Please email me when you get a chance!

H picked up the kids for an out of town weekend fun. The kids are really looking forward to it. H told the kids he was away for business trip (which is normal). But S6 got skeptical. I told them Fri night that daddy is coming on Sat to take them on a trip. Now, usually daddy comes back in the evening after a business trip. Sat morning, S8 asked, "Where is daddy? Was he here last night?" He just does not understand why daddy is coming back on a morning. S8 is not asking much but I am sure he senses something.

Anyway, here's the big news. While h was here waiting for the kids to get ready, we talked a bit. Last communication was how I blew up at him over text messages about not wanting to hear from him till he is "DONE WITH ME, DONE WITH HER, OR YOU HAVE DIED". Well, he asked me out for dinner in about 10 days. I told him "You know what I said." He said, "Yes, and I am asking you out to dinner." So, I guess the BIG DAY is coming. I am VERY SCARED, yet calm. I am making myself to have NO EXPECTATIONS. His decision was to be "her, me, or leave both if he cannot decide." I know the third option is a real possibility. I am starting to think this is like those murder mystery movie. The suspence is driving me crazy. But this is h, never say anything until he has everything planned out.

Journaling.
Kids actually do not miss daddy. He called yesterday to talk to the kids. The kids only talked to him for a short while before hanging up. I feel bad for him that the kids do not miss him.
I had a bit of a crisis with home so that's keeping me busy. Too bad as I wanted to do a bit spring cleaning, oh well, another time. I feel pretty bad now at nights because h is not here. It brings back the memories when he still had the A in secret when he would be out till early morning. Trying to cope with it as best I can.

Hang in there OC. At least right now you KNOW that he is not coming home at night. Isn't it worse when you wake up and then stay up waiting for him to get home?

Is the dinner with your H still on for next week?

In the sense, YES, it's true that I know he is not coming back at night, I can just be comfortable by myself.
I just started reading "Getting Back Together" and it says separation may be good, though I think in my case, we did not do it right or do it for the right reasons. But whatever, I feel OK these two weeks because I have time to really think without him constantly at the background. I know it will be a long journey if we do get back. At the same time, I am also reading books on separation and divorce. I wonder if "I am on the fence?" :-)

Dinner still on. In about a week, we will all know. OK, I do believe in him, but that's the "before-him", who was just a great husband and person, whom I believe in. With this "new him", I do have a slight doubt that he still won't be able to decide. But regardless, I am making my own decision at my own pace, so in this sense, I have been detaching really good this week. (Despite still some crying and sadness, only makes me a human!)

I go through those same range of emotions and have felt like I was definately the "on the fence" the past couple of weeks. I think it helps us to get some feeling of control back and helps us to detach as best we can. Take care OC

OK, this waiting is killing me. I am getting quite emotional this weekend. I keep getting so obessed about next week's dinner. It does not help that seems like the few people who knows about this are all busy so I have no one to talk to. Nights are difficult because I miss him.

I cannot stop thinking about next week. OK, I will just ask you all. What would your reaction be depending on his decision? He will tell me one of three: "I told her bye bye....", "I don't think I can leave her, therefore I will leave you", "I still cannot decide....may be I will just leave both of you". I knoow I will be civil in any of the above. I am just very concerned about how I should react. I do not know why I should be so concerned about this, may be because I think the "wrong" reaction will send him away? Or am I trying to preserve my own dignity? I do not know.

Any thoughts or ideas about how to prepare for the BIG day for me?

Hi there... I don't blame you for being nervous. It gives me a stomachache just thinking about what you are going to have to face. My thoughtis - prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Also, make sure you look AWESOME! Get a manicure, pedicure, new outfit.. whatever makes you feel CONFIDENT!

Really think about how you want to respond and what you wish to say in reaction to each possible outcome. You already know the how.. as calmly as possible (even with the good one!). As for the what.. maybe some "experts" like HB or ROOT could help you with that...

hello, anyone with any suggestions?
Meeting h tomorrow for dinner. very scared. I know I am supposed to stay calm regardless, but still very nervous. thanks olive for your reassurance. I am a bit all over the place emotionally now, so just having you to reaffirm what I am thinking helps a big deal. I hate suspense :-)

Hello!

Well when my H was 'feeling' me out on where I stood - he said "I am done thinking about filing (for D)' and then asked what my feelings were on filing. This is how he started to let me know he was emotionally done with her - he just needed to figure out how to let her down 'gently' WTH??? And my emotions were again put on the back burner for another weekend with the OW. He told me 3/8 he was done and just needed to get rid of her which happened 3/12 - though she still txt once called three sep. times and emailed once - he did talk two times on the phone with her. I finally said if she calls again he is to tell her we were reconciling.

I agree with Olive - prepare for the WORST and then maybe you will be surprised with the best. These WAS just are so messed up and they really don't want to hurt either party - yet it hurts us all. Too bad people cannot see the pain prior to even thinking about starting an A - it could prevent soooooo much agony. My H says it was so not worth it now and he wishes we could go back and be the fun foursome of friends we all were.. him, Ow, Ow ex and me - they really got the most hurt out of all of this. She filed and they are now D and it scares the sh*t out of me how close we came to being done.

Whatever your H tells you - try to take the high road as much as you can - it will be worth it in the end. When I busted my H for bringing that skank into our home (I was out of town w/the kids) I was never so hurt and angry yet within 5 mins I still told him I was not going to file for D - he needed to get out and figure it out and convince me why we should D and that I would not even consider filing for 4-6 mos. I would have waited a minimum of a year - then who knows I probably would have kept on waiting. This is easier to say now b/c OW has been gone for over a month now. If she were still doing sleepovers at his apt i might have ended a lot sooner than a year.

I wish you the best! You will become a better person b/c of all of this - I have!!

good news!! We had dinner. H told me that he has told her that he is ending the relationship with her because it cannot go on like this. I told him I am glad that he made the decision.
I purposely left it very open because I do not want to impose any condition on him. I had a feeling that he was expecting me to but I tried my best not to. I did say I need him to be honest and open and commit to work on our relationship. Not a very definite answer on that but I think he is willing to.
Now about coming back. Orginally, we both thought it's a good idea for him to come back as soon as possible (for the kids). But I thought about it for one night, I told him I am not ready. He is still "in the process" of ending the relationship with her. Although I do trust him to honor his commitment to me (Oh god, that "trust" word again, don't I ever learn???), I am not ready to still have "three persons" in our relationship when he moves back. I told him I am scared that he will flip flop after he moves back and moves out again. And I also want this NEW relationship to start only when he is caring about me 100%, not still caring about her feelings, which he is still now. I can understand that he needs some time to finish this, though. So I basically said I prefer him not to move back till he at least show some actions about commitment and only when he is willing to spend all his energy on me, and me alone. I did not give him any guidelines, any timelines, or any advice. I don't want to push him to do anything anymore. It is all up to him to deal with it. He said he understand but I think he is worried about what to do since I sense that he wants to move back quickly and with this condition, it is tough to end it quick and move back.
Meanwhile, I am feeling pretty good, cautiously optimistic. I am holding myself back not to be too happy because I am still scared that he won't be able to cut off all contacts with OW. At the same time, I know I can live without him (funny all things broke in this two weeks, computer, toaster, etc. but I dealt with them all). I want him a lot but I do not need him (read that somewhere)
I will post more details as I have more time. Right now I have to fix my main computer so I can get back to my household paperwork. Using my kids' computer is just not the same :-)
I guess I will be moving to piecing soon. Just want to say thank you all for being here for me all these times. Your presence really really helped me through the worst period of my time. Through your advice and support, I have grown and I now value my friendships with other people much better. Thanks.

Congratulations OC... I'm jealous $\:\)$
Wish my conversation went that well..

I am happy for you Ourcrisis.

You are right just be cautious - and the piecing group is not "as there" as much as this group - I have moved to piecing but post little to my sitch-- due to the pace - the lack of drama has slowed our whole sitch down somewhat (this is good)!

Ow probably will try to contact him - be prepared there too. My H Ow called three sep times, text'd and emailed him too. He told her buh bye over a month ago and yet it's only been three weeks since he actually talked to her. This addiction will lesson with each week but the marriage builders site says usually 3 wks minimum to get over it...

I am very happy for you - but you are being way smarter than me - I wanted him back ASAP - he held back thank God! Cuz now I do see he can only come back when he's 100% mine and he's almost there emotionally - we talk that May will be his last month at the apt - but we still take it day by day!

Piecing isn't much easier - the best part is now you are working with him vs. by yourself. R talks are still tuff and future talks are even tuffer but you have come sooooo far - just don't quit the DBing - it's so easy to slide into our old ways! CONGRATS!!!! $\:\)$

Thanks for all the congrats. I am happy that he is coming back, but yes very cautious because I really felt my heart is truly broken and I am not sure if we can both go through piecing. It's like all my energy is used up in DBing and getting him to verbally commit now I don't know if I have anything left to fight the "real war".

Heartbroken, I have to tell you that you have been a great inspiration to me. I looked upon your journey as my guideline. At dinner with h, I told him I probably want him home ASAP, though hestitant without knowing why. THen after dinner, it darned on me that it's because of how cautious your h is about slowly coming home from end or Apr to May and how ow is calling, etc. I'm like, "now I know i need to go SLOW!!!". Believe me, you are a great force for I am sure not just me and many others here. Thanks.

H called last night saying he just wanted to hear my voice. I am quite sure that's just one of those "lines" to get the girl without much meaning. But I am glad that the effort to just to pretend. He did say he thought about what I said about not coming home until it's really over. He agreed and he told me yes, ending it was not as easy as he thought. I didn't ask more. I suspect it's either he cannot stop thinking about ow, or ow is calling/meeting h. So there is probably still contact there. H still seems to think he can come home soon (lease is ending in 2 weeks) but I am not so sure. However, I didn't say anything either because now I figure it is his problem to deal with. My condition is he's all for me when he's back. Whichever way he deals with it, whenever he comes back, it is his problem.
I am thinking about communicating with him a bit more or may be even a lunch, dinner every so often just to keep the sparks going. But have to be very careful to see what is appropiate. I really don't want to push him, ever.

Thanks for your kind words!

You seem to know what cautious steps to take - moreso than I did at this stage! Just go with your gut feel - too many times we poo poo our internal red flags - we need to recognize them more!!

At first I let H call me and I was detached as much as possible. We do talk several times a day now and I sleep with the cell phone in case I have anxiety attacks in the middle of the nite - he always answers too! I do get anxious when he does not pick up because this is how it went when he was busy with OW on the phone.

Flashbacks and triggers are something fierce right now and I am going through some really sad periods again - but at least I can cry to him without him running away. He is helping me through my emotions (finally).

You may have to set some boundaries with your H stating that he needs to be COMPLETELY honest if there is ANY contact from the OW on her part or his. You just need to be careful of your reaction if she does call him - I was never angry at H just very proud and happy that he was telling me the truth - praising him like he was five yrs. old...I was upset - but more with her than him....

I was asking H daily 'Any form of communication today?' - he would joke no calls, text's, emails, smoke signals...." I am starting to forget to ask but still do occaisionally. My H knew if he lied about her again I WAS FILING - three strikes and he was out. My heart cannot take any more lies - he knows I am serious since I never said I would file before during all of his BS...

You are doing great! Baby Steps and end ALL interactions with H on a positive note!

still here. I am very sad today. weekend I know they are together and he is still seeing her. I am not sure how long I can stand this. may be that's what he wants. just wait for me to give up. I am feeling so sick to the stomach. I am feeling very depressed and I know this is not good. I hope this is a short term thing and I will get over it.

I feel for you OC. You can't control him - only you. It's so hard but, true. Just try to be positive in your interactions with H.

What happened with him telling you it was over with OW? How do you know he was with her? Is he done or not? WTH???

I feel so bad for you...Make sure he is totally done before he comes home or you risk him leaving and I think the coming and going will be too hard on your boys!!

HE IS BACK!!!
Details below:
He was basically not responding the whole weekend. Only a very brief, cold text message asking about computer parts. Otherwise, no response even on my text (informing him about our great garage sale, etc.) He said he was going to call me to talk but did not.
So basically I became very depressed. After I told him I don't want him to come back until he is sure he is done with her, then nothing from him. What would I be thinking!!!!! I had horrible assumptions, like how I have pushed him away, how he cannot really let go of her despite the speech, may be she is begging him and they decided to have a whole weekend fun together, or may be the whole thing is just a lie, etc. It did not even make sense but I was thinking horrible stuff. I was crying in front of the boys. Of course, being boys, they had no idea of what's going on. I told them I am sad so I cried. My older one also got teary eyes (he is close to me) but they were back to playing after 5 minutes. Kids!!!
Monday he finally called. He simply told me he is moving back Monday night, and that's it. I sensed that he is not ready to let me have a say in this, so I just said OK. So now he is home. He did hug me and said "THANK YOU" when he moved back. He said it first but eseentially both of us did not want to talk about anything Monday night so we just spent the night doing usual stuff (i.e. watching TV, talking about household stuff).
Where am I now? I am glad that he is back. At least I know his action shows that he is trying. I don't know any details about the level of contact now with OW and I have a feeling I am not allowed to ask. I think I will have to just continue to DB for now. It is so tempting to just ask, but I am glad this board has put some sense in me not to. not yet anyway.

Hello Ourcrisis!

I hope everything is well.

HS

Not a very good week. He is still talking to her but he did say he is not seeing her anymore. He came back Monday, but we did not talk about R at all till Thursday. Basically I had all the emotions that I exploded on him. He accused me of not treating him like a husband (not welcoming him) and I said you are not because you are still in a relationship with her and only cares for her feelings and ignored my feelings. I told him marriage is exclusive, and since it is not right now, he is not my husband currently. I am quite sure I got him upset. Eventually we did both calm down a bit. I agreed to try to be more welcoming to him, and he agreed to ask about my feelings often. So far he is very good in doing that (a bit too much, ha ha, as every few hours he asked how I am doing when I am clearly still very upset). I am not very good in pretending to be happy and welcoming around him. Will have to try harder.

I just read that this is a vulnerable time when he is getting over the A (though technically he still has not ended it totally). I just cannot walk on eggshells but I think I will have to. I think I just need to find strength and positive energy from elsewhere so I can have some overflowing positive energy for him.

Hello Ourcrisis,

I am sorry your week is not going well. I feel as though my M is frozen in time. Nopthing happening at all. Just at a standstill.

Now is the time for you to look for the positives not matter how small. PMA and positives will get you through.

Take care

A bit of update.
H is really trying to please me. I mentioned that I wanted him to ask me how I feel instead of treating like a business partner (i.e. simply discussing things to do for the family). He asks every few hours, though it ends in that with little genuine followup with whatever answer I give. It is a step forward because he does not open up. I accused him of sharing feelings with OW, but not me and he denied saying he does not open up to anyone at all and I am already the person he opens up the most. I will have to accept that.
My biggest thing is that now he is still in contact with OW. I don't think they are seeing each other anymore (it's been a week?) but they are still talking. He still misses her terribly but so far I don't think he is seeing her. From the little that he tells me, she is pleading with him everyday to see/talk to him. I don't know when/if he will comply or stand his ground. I SO SO wish that he is determined to stay with me and let her go. But I don't know. I am trying to be welcoming but I am also feeling so bad that he cannot break contact completely. I think in his mind, he still truly believes he can JUST BE HER FRIEND and all the books about cutting off 100% is just BS.

Last time I blew up on him and said I do not want to keep pretending nothing ever happened and I feel a need to talk about R. He suggests that we talk everyday (I was actually thinking only 2x a week or once a week). We had one talk so far only. We will see if this can last.
I do have second thoughts about having R talk when he is still missing her so much and still talking to her. I would like your opinion (though this probably belongs to piecing). In this situation where H thinks he is trying to end the A, and is taking baby steps in doing so, but A is still there (talking, may be email, who knows), do you think it is beneficial to have R talk? If so, what kind of R talk? about how A happened? About his current level of contact with her? About his feelings towards her now? About how we can rebuild M? talk on making him promise to be honest (when I am not sure he can be 100%)? H verbally agreed to talk about the above (though I pushed him into it somewhat), but I am not sure if he can actually goes through with talking without lying or being completely open.
I wonder on one hand that I want to get to the bottom of this so we can move on and I don't want to bring it up again after he is over her. On the other hand, may be I should wait till he IS OVER OW before we talk about this? I am quite confused.

All and all though from his actions towards me, I appreciate what he is doing. He is trying. I am trying to be nice to him also but i am actually having lots of trouble doing this now when he is back than before when A was still in full force. Partly because I am discovering more lies and I simply do not know if I can tolerate all these lies and stay with the M. Partly also I am having trouble being nice to him when I know he is missing her terribly. I think bottomline is that at this point, my love tank is so low that I am having trouble continuing. This is sad because I know we are very close to getting back. I keep praying that I can just last long enough for him to be completely honest and open with me, and break off 100% with OW before I call it quits.

I just realized I am getting back to what i am NOT supposed to do. I need to do 180 again and be loving and not pushing. I just realized that I am pushing. He probably thinks I am a spoilt kid who has nothing but good life all these years (which compared to him, yes, I did) and here I am again whining to get little things.
I was just reading through posts here and over at piecing. I think I need to go back to serious DB and just let h drive the pace on revealing the A, and his feelings, etc. DETACH, DETACH!!!

Journaling.
H is still home. Still in contact with OW. I don't ask anymore on what stage he is at. We had an agreement that we would talk everynight, but we are not following that much. He probably thinks he is since we do "talk". But no R talk, no talk about whether he is seeing/talking/emailing/whatever with OW which is what I am looking for. But I am not asking anymore because I don't want to know and I know by talking it will make him ache for her more. The other night he said when he sees that I am "happy", he is happy. At the same time, he is sad because he knows she is "sad". That simply sucks. i am telling myself today no more R talk from me. I am just going to act 180.

Now, I need a few 2x4's. Somebody please wack me and tell me i need to detach and just not ask anymore or not push him. I feel like sometimes I am being too "close" to him by touching him, hugging, etc. I am finding a difficult balance with both the physical and emotional side. When he ask about how I feel, should i just lie and say i am OK? or pour out my soul (guess NOT !!!) We are touching each other a lot, and he is not resenting me, but i can feel sometimes that he is holding me and thinking about OW. ARGH!!!!

I am not good at keeping a balance and as a result, I think sometimes I am being too "distant" and sometimes too "pushy". H is very nice and is not complaining, but that's because he never shows his feelings. I can sense that he may not like this sometimes. Eggshells!!!!!

Originally Posted By: ourcrisis

I am not good at keeping a balance and as a result, I think sometimes I am being too "distant" and sometimes too "pushy". H is very nice and is not complaining, but that's because he never shows his feelings. I can sense that he may not like this sometimes. Eggshells!!!!!

I hear you there, OC! In fact, I was just thinking this morning how I don't really know what to do. Do I initiate the hugging, kissing, ILY, e-mails, etc? or do I let H do it? He seems to have backed off quite a bit and is acting distant after some really nice times this weekend.. So hard to know what to do !!!!

Quote:

Now, I need a few 2x4's. Somebody please wack me and tell me i need to detach and just not ask anymore or not push him. I feel like sometimes I am being too "close" to him by touching him, hugging, etc. I am finding a difficult balance with both the physical and emotional side. When he ask about how I feel, should i just lie and say i am OK? or pour out my soul (guess NOT !!!) We are touching each other a lot, and he is not resenting me, but i can feel sometimes that he is holding me and thinking about OW. ARGH!!!!

No 2x4's needed hon, you know what you need to do. IMHO, it is possible to touch, hug, etc. while detaching...if you can feel strong enough in yourself to do these things (which foster closeness) with zero expectations, then do them! (It's the expectations that get us every time. $\:\)$ )

About worrying that he's thinking about OW when he's holding you...HE'S HOLDING YOU! There is no way to know exactly what he's thinking, and there's no point in torturing yourself about it. It makes it more difficult for you to stay on an even keel when you're worried about the what-ifs (gah, don't I know this!).

((hugs)) You're doing a great job. Good luck with your goal of no R talk today.

H has agreed to talk to me everyday and asked me how I feel. But now we have not talked about R for almost a week now. I feel like I am exploding for wanting information. Even "I don't want to talk about R for another week." is OK. One of the biggest problems in our R is him saying something which I take a a promise and he never fulfills it and just lets it slip off the radar, leaving me wondering if he actually plans to do it?/forgets?/not want to do it anymore?/what?? usually I wait until i explode and that's not good. I hate to remind him because he feels like I am pushing. Is there a good solution to let him know that i still have expectation of the daily R talk until he tells me otherwise?

Physically we are OK (guess I am doing a great job complimenting in that regard). I have another question. I know he is trying, but to use the "Five Love Language"'s words, he is sometimes speaking my language but not my dialect. I want him to be open (with his feelings, with the little steps he is taking away from OW), but instead I get a report of his daily activities. I do not want him to "report" to me the boss. I want to be the "wife".

OK, since I am venting, may as well go all the way. I feel that i am not in his social circle at all. She is. (ex-coworker, drinking circle while I did not drink before). Is it safe to request that I be included in his social circle at this point? Right now he is at home and we do things. But he is taking the route as not going out with any of his friends at all, but being with me, and just me. What i want is for him to go out, AND TAKE ME WITH HIM TO SHOW THE WORLD I AM THE WIFE!!!! I wonder if he will feel "pushed" if I request that.

Olive - remember the cave from Venus/Mars. It is so tough when h pulls away. Then i try to remember the cave. Easy to say, difficult to do.

Aud31, thanks for the reminder that he is holding ME!!! I needed that, plus that's somehow tells me that's a pretty big step. And I just realize also for me to push for more now may just be a bit too much for h.

This board is good. It clears my mind sometimes. Good to read others' story too just to keep me sane. thanks.