After months of watching these boards I now really need some advice on my situation. I am a Brit in the US for 6 yrs with my British H and baby. Several major life events in the past 2yr and 12 months ago moved states, new jobs, baby in tow, no family/friends. Six months later (Aug 06)I find out about H's affair with co-worker which he initially denied (H and I work in same place but different positions and shifts). Was completely blindsided; no hint this was coming although in hindsight can see the factors that led to EA and PA (we moved to US for my career, I am workaholic, not much intimacy since S born etc).
Never believed in counselling (typical Brit) but as a last resort asked if H would consider it. Shocked that he did and said he wanted to try again with our R. However, he was lying to C as still with OW even though she had just moved 2hrs away. It's not easy trying to discuss R issues with toddler climbing all over; no family/friends near so had no-one to leave S with while we talked/cried. I admitted my part in the breakdown and made steps to address problems. Went to UK in Sept 06. Had terrible time; H told me he wanted OW and not me. Found emails from OW describing everything they had done, how they will be married and have kids etc...wanted to vomit. Had to face a journey back to US alone with son; got home to house in US to find H had moved out. He said he would contact me in a few days even though he was primary caregiver for our son for 3 days per week...so I had no childcare.
Did the usual crying, begging etc for weeks. Found DB website a month later. Read DB book. Without realizing I had been doing some of the techniques (not constantly calling, trying to GAL etc). Since end Oct 06 H comes to the house 2 days per week to look after son (Tues, Wed) and driving 2 hours each way back and forth on both days. Returns to area on Thurs for job (still hasn't got another job even though OW has been pushing for this since Aug 06. Denies he is even looking) and comes to see me and son on way to work - it is a night shift job so comes home to sleep off nightshift on Fridays and Saturdays. Drives back to OW on Sun morning then drives back to me on Tues.
H spent Thanksgiving with OW and met her parents. I returned to UK for Christmas as couldn't face it alone in US with baby. Had a wonderful time and didn't really miss H like I thought. Came back with renewed confidence. Had been noticing baby steps and had seen some improvement recently (H leaving some things at house etc).
However, things have slid back a lot and I am now back to crying. Just as I get my hopes up that there are small improvements things happen that make me realize H has no intention of giving up OW (his soulmate!). Although he initiates most calls and still calls me "babe" he thinks I am doing fine with this situation and we are good at being friends. Thinks of me as his best friend and doesn't want to lose me - he is in and out of my life/home serveral times a week to see our son and it is killing me knowing that he is sleeping with OW (who is in 20s and he is 40). Part of me wants family back, part of me cannot possibly see how we can get over this. It is not his first PA.
Being strong and idependent and showing him I can live without him is easy because it is part of what led to breakdown. So I feel that my behaving like this is confirming what he thought - we are better as friends. Not sure that the independence thing is right for my situation.
Tonight we had bad snow and freeways at 30mph - yet he would rather drive 3 hrs in treacherous conditions back to OW than stay over in spare room even though he needs to be back here early in a.m. anyway. This has devastated me all over again and the crying and saying ILY etc started again tonight. Just don't know if I can go on living in this bizarre situation, PA been going on for 6 months, H moved out 4 months ago. Sorry this is so long but it is an odd situation that needed explaining. Please, any advice? Is there any hope for my marriage after this long?
geordie,
I'd like to welcome you to this forum. You will find a lot of good advice from the wonderful people that are here to save their marriage/relationships. Take what you need and leave what you don't. Since you already have the DB book, you are one step to saving your marriage. Once you've GAL'ed (Get A Life) and achieve sort of a PMA (Positive Mental Attitude)you might find that the pain will ease a bit. It may still be there but you'll have better control of your emotions. You need to process all your emotions don't hold them back it's not healthy for you or your child. In my case,I took the advice of people that have been DB'ing for while and tried very hard not to let my emotions get the better of me particularly in front of my W. You can keep sort of a journal like this post of yours and add on to it whenever you can. You will most likely realize later on that most, if not all, the DB'ing techniques you'll learn are for YOU. Browse the other other topics for ideas for GAL, 180's, etc.
I'm sure others will chime in later to give you some comments and/or suggestions. I'll see if I can find other reading materials on affairs that might help you. For now, you should read up on the DB book regarding infedility. You've got a lot of work ahead of you so hang in there. Right now just concentrate on YOU and your child's well being.
H
H,
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate someone reading my long post! My PMA after Christmas seemed to confuse H and he seemed more interested in me. But he knows I can do it on my own - I have always been the one that can cope with everything...his response to bolting (frightened he would lose his soulmate when she moved cities) even though he was the caregiver for our child was because "I knew you would sort it (the childcare) out". His father ran off with another woman when he was a child and he said "well, I turned out OK" (???) so he doesn't seem to be overly concerned about our son. My family is the complete opposite and everything I wanted my marriage to be for my child. I don't believe in D and I cry because of what this is doing to our son who wanders around the house calling for daddy. Up to the A he was a model father and I was so proud of him. I have done so well with some of the DB techniques (mostly!) but am starting to think that nothing is going to work because he seems quite happy with the situation. It's making me physically sick even though I have rarely shown it infront of him in recent months, until this week. I have often wondered if this is also a MLC.
Hi Geordie,
Living independent lives attributed to the breakdown of our M too. But I was the one that had the A. When I was in the midst of my A, I too believed the OM was my soul mate. Now that I am out of the fog, I realized I can never be more wrong.
When I spoke to the DB coach she told me to utilize 180 and GAL.
So, even though independence contributed to the breakdown of the M, DB can still be done. I think the main result is for you to be healthy mentally even if you are not in the R with your H.
But when H is in my prescene to give him my undivided attention.
She asked me why my H was attracted to me and to become that person again.
She also asked what made us a couple and to emphasize that.
I am not too far into the process myself, so I hope what I am able to provide helps.
Sorry you have to be going through this.
Sound like he may be in a MLC.
4ever-Regretful
Thank you so much for your words. I need to re-read DR! If you don't mind me asking, how long did your A last? I feel that H is getting too comfortable with the situation as he has the best of both worlds and it will never end. Am also starting to wonder if I could ever really love/trust him again. Maybe it's better to end it now while S is too young to understand much.
I will try and give H more attention....all but ignored him this morning even though he was trying to be nice and cleared all the snow off the drive as soon as he got out of the car after his 2hr drive. I did make dinner this morning and told him it was there when he was hungry (while I was at work, which is a 180 for me since he was the chef in our house!). I am also making links with other people and trying to get out of the house even if I take S with me. Do feel better for it.
Reason I think MLC also: moved out without warning; bought new car even though we were just making ends meet financially, bought new clothes, changed appearance, changed mailing address, got new cellphone (different area code). Guess this one may take a long time to end......not sure if I can wait it out
I hope your DB techniques are working for you. Please let me know how things go with you.
No worries geordie. Just glad I could somehow contribute my own thoughts with regard to your sitch. If you two ladies have the time, I was hoping you can read up on my own dilema. Perhaps you might be able to learn something from it and/or offer your insights from your own point of view. Please post your response in my own thread keeping this one as geordie's very own. Thanks in advance.
H
Decisions....decision.... Aside from the DB book, here is a site that I found a while back that I found helpful in answering a lot of my own questions when I first suspected my W's affair started. The links to the articles are to the left of the webpage. Hope it helps.
Marriage Builders
H
Thanks for the links. I posted on your thread. Your strength is inspiring.
I read so much back in Aug although I need to go back and read again as it is easy to get sidetracked. I also have something about different types of A's and the chances of them lasting, characteristics of people involved etc...it's really interesting and helped me a lot. I have it in pdf form and you are welcome to read it if you would like.
Well, this evening when I returned home H was very nice to me. Enjoyed telling me about his day with S1. Out of the blue he hugged me and said "I know we need to talk, we'll do it at the weekend, OK". I smiled and just said that I think it would be a shame to throw away the past 14yrs. He hasn't said the "talk" word since he wanted to "talk" to tell me he didn't want me anymore, and that was back in Sept. He thanked me for cooking his dinner. I noticed things of his still in the house and he has not taken S's car seat out of his car (that's a first, the spare seat usually stays in the house). He called me 30 mins into his drive to OW to check on me and make sure I was doing OK cooking rice (he is very particular about cooking rice....should be on Iron Chef or something)...I can't help but get hopeful that he is considering a move back...but I know I should expect a step backward since we seem to have had a good day today. Oh..this is hard.
No expectations about your convo this weekend. Keep your cool either way, validate and affirm... take a bottle of water w/ you so you can take a drink to buy time to form your response. But I really have my fingers crossed for you. One day at a time. Julie
Thanks Julie. Just hoping that maybe the R conversation won't happen at all......
Thanks geordie! As you can probably sense from my own thread, I'm trying really hard to stand for my M despite the recent revelations. I'll keep trying 'til I could truly say I did my best. Sometimes I can feel my patience waning but I manage to dig deep and somehow manage to renew my efforts. I try not to succumb to the what I fear will be the inevitable outcome. I draw a lot of inspiration from my own parents, who to this day in their late 60's, still hold hands and go on dates and weekend getaways that it simply amazes me and my siblings.
Please do send me a link of the pdf or better yet email it to me. Thanks in advance. And don't stop reading it'll help a lot. Hang in there! And keep posting.
H
If you don't mind me asking, how long did your A last? I feel that H is getting too comfortable with the situation as he has the best of both worlds and it will never end. Am also starting to wonder if I could ever really love/trust him again. Maybe it's better to end it now while S is too young to understand much.
No, I don't mind you asking. To tell you the truth, my A with H best friend might have lasted several months. I can't recall. Can you believe it? I ruined my M due to the A and can't recall details about the A. Shows how insignificant it really was. The more I think about it, the more I see how I could have been going through a MLC. According to DR, the life span of an A is about 6 months. And allowing your H to chase his fantasy may shock him back to reality.
I will try and give H more attention....all but ignored him this morning even though he was trying to be nice and cleared all the snow off the drive as soon as he got out of the car after his 2hr drive. I did make dinner this morning and told him it was there when he was hungry (while I was at work, which is a 180 for me since he was the chef in our house!). I am also making links with other people and trying to get out of the house even if I take S with me. Do feel better for it.
I applaud you!!! Sounds like you are back on track to your resourceful self. I need to learn how to cook. (That is part of my 180 as well).
I hope your DB techniques are working for you. Please let me know how things go with you.
At times I feel I have made progress, then at others I am not so sure. Whether I am able to get my H back or not, I know at least I have "left no stone unturned". One less regret.
And if you continue to DB, you will be in a much better position mentally for yourself.
geordie,
I just wanted to see how you're doing? And thank you so much for the ebooks. As soon as I finished downloading, I started reading the How to Break Free one. I must say there's a lot of interesting information there that you won't find in other books of the same topic and vice versa.
Speaking of links, what worked for me so far is this fairly new site called meetup.com You might say, hmmmm it's seems like of those myspace kind of deal. True it has a lot in common. But, this is more along the lines of the Yahoo Groups or AOL. You can look up a "meetup group" typing key words as parameters for your search. Such as in my case say hiking, conversational spanish or portuguese, etc. Then I joined the group and attended their activities. In the groups that I've joined so far, the diversity is amazing such that the age from 25-55, singles and couples (both married and others), diff. ethnic backgrounds, religion, etc. Some even bring kids to the events. Just a simple conduit channeling people of different interests to find their particularly group and enjoy activities that are held by same.
Check it out.
Remember to try and always "act as if" and keep a PMA when you interact with your H. I know its particularly hard when they are being difficult and such but it'll get somewhat easier with practice. Hang in there. Take care and keep posting.
H
According to DR, the life span of an A is about 6 months. And allowing your H to chase his fantasy may shock him back to reality.
Yes, I read that also. I guess I'm also hoping that OW will not stand for the constant contact H has with me and that will wear her down, like she can never have him properly because of our S and H's commitment to S...I know, I know...I can't control what other people do or think but I'd be lying if I didn't think about occasionally.
Thing about the 6-9 month duration of A's, with my sitch H ran out in Oct but because he ran 2 hrs away and he works night shift here (has never got another job even though she has been pushing since Aug) it works out that his schedule is:
Tuesday: leave OW at 6am to drive to me and look after S until I get home then get back to OW at 8pm
Wed: same as Tues
Thurs: sleep in until lunch time, drive 2hrs to work (calls in to see S for half an hour on way), works all night....
Friday: comes "home" to sleep off night shift, goes back to work...
Sat: comes home to sleep off night shift, spends a couple of hours as a normal family then goes to work again...
Sunday: drives 2hrs to OW, falls asleep, gets up late afternoon then has Sunday evening, and all day Monday with OW (only she is at work on Mondays) then the whole cycle starts again on Tuesday. Thefore, he doesn't see OW AT ALL between Thursday lunch time and Sunday late morning......
So, really even though he moved out, he is actually spending more time here in our home than he is with her, even though I'm not generally present. She only has him on a Monday really as Sunday is a dead day with him turing his scheudule around back to dayshift. See what I mean by "Bizarre Situation"?!! My concern though is that the A may last much longer since they really aren't spending much time together despite the fact they supposedly live together. Almost like it is still an A because they have never spent more than a few consecutive days together (when I was in UK and so he didn't look after S). The PA started in July although OW had been making a play for him long before and my guess is that she was having EA with him for months before he even realized. By the time he did, he was sucked in and couldn't resist.
So, 7 months later here I am. Things have been good between us in recent days...haven't seen much of each other but he has called several times and the general chit-chat was good. Actually no-one would ever guess there was a problem if they overheard the conversation!
Some days I also feel like things are moving in the right direction and then all of a sudden it all falls apart. I have to learn not to get fixated on the bad things. Some days my PMA is wonderful, other days it is very low. Part of the roller coaster I guess. DB really does get us all to a better place mentally, regardless of the outcome of our current sitch.
H
Glad you like the books! I will check out the link you mention. Any update on your sitch? I keep checking your thread just incase.
L
Yes, I read that also. I guess I'm also hoping that OW will not stand for the constant contact H has with me and that will wear her down, like she can never have him properly because of our S and H's commitment to S...I know, I know...I can't control what other people do or think but I'd be lying if I didn't think about occasionally.
Understandable. This is such an awful sitch to be in, we try to find comfort in what we can. If it provides you with some comfort, why not?
So, really even though he moved out, he is actually spending more time here in our home than he is with her, even though I'm not generally present. She only has him on a Monday really as Sunday is a dead day with him turing his scheudule around back to dayshift. See what I mean by "Bizarre Situation"?!! My concern though is that the A may last much longer since they really aren't spending much time together despite the fact they supposedly live together. Almost like it is still an A because they have never spent more than a few consecutive days together (when I was in UK and so he didn't look after S). The PA started in July although OW had been making a play for him long before and my guess is that she was having EA with him for months before he even realized. By the time he did, he was sucked in and couldn't resist.
Sounds like he has not made a final decision. If he truly feels his life is going to be enriched being with his "soul mate", he is not taking the actions neccessary to obtain that such as looking for another job. As confused as we are about their thoughts and actions, we should give them the benefit of the doubt that they may not know what it is they want either.
He may be finding comfort in knowing he can have his cake and eat it too. But as you have said stable is better than back sliding. Perhaps the OW will nag him enough about a job change to bug him.
Some days I also feel like things are moving in the right direction and then all of a sudden it all falls apart. I have to learn not to get fixated on the bad things. Some days my PMA is wonderful, other days it is very low. Part of the roller coaster I guess. DB really does get us all to a better place mentally, regardless of the outcome of our current sitch.
You are right about it being part of the rollercoaster. The good part is, the good moments will eventually extend into days. Time is a blessing. Hang in there! Keep DBing!
Well, the R talk never happened this weekend
We had good interactions even though we didn't spend much time together (eg he called to let me know that he'd just left (OW) 30 mins prior so I would know what time he would get to childminder's house....even though it is the same time every week so he doesn't really need to call.(he calls in to see S for half an hour on Thursdays on his 2hr drive to work...and on several occasions I have noticed that he seems to be doing this to see me also). He hugged me (as he does most of the time) when he left for work on Sat night - I didn't hug him back but I didn't recoil either and he kissed me on the cheek. Have had that before although it has happened a couple of times lately....baby steps??
I have to say, when I had my big back-slide last week (the final straw that made me post to this site) I told him (thru tears) that I knew I also had made mistakes and I was trying to address them, I've lost weight...blah blah (he said he noticed) don't want to think that we've thrown away 14yrs, a marriage, and a baby without even trying to address the problems...but that if he really didn't want me then tell me because I will stop trying to save this marriage (yikes...I can't believe I actually said that!)....anyway, the one thing he did say was "don't stop trying".....What the...?? I guess he really doesn't know what he wants..........but I do start to feel like a doormat that I am allowing him to sleep here on weekends to save him money for a hotel, knowing that he is being intimate with someone else who he is willing to drive 2hrs for when he's not on night shift! And he still contributes to the mortgage...! Seems to me like he's being really immature but I don't want another child to deal with...I want a husband who loves and respects me. Just worried that the longer this goes on, the easier it will be for both of us to not be a couple; we'll just get used to living in this weird sitch and nothing will get resolved. That scares me.
geordie!
Hi! I'm glad the weekend well somewhat well for you. And yes baby steps, we should always look out for baby steps. Almost everyone does what you have that you consider backslides. It's within all of us to find out what is wrong particularly in a relationship that you've invested time and effort into but confronting the other.I think sometimes it's good for that to happen so perhaps in a way it's sort of a statement of where we stand in the M, and we stand back try to follow the DB techniques. Makes sense? Ugghhh maybe not. But don't feel bad, your concerns about getting too comfy with the current sitch are legitimate but at the same time positives.
What I'm referring to is that he still sleeps there and not totally moved out. He's still contributing to the mortgage, another good sign. Just try not to make yourself too available. Create a sort of mystery about you and your routine. Did you check out the meetup.com link? Just try it see if you'll find a group that shares your interest. And try not feel like a doormat and if it make you feel any better you are the wife and she is the OW, nothing concrete about whatever they're having right now are there? But again I undertand where you're coming from. Here's an idea, if you have a girlfriend or close coworker (same sex of course), ask them if they want to go out and have drinks or something on the nights that he sleeps over. see how he reacts. Once again don't make yourself too avaiable and creative a mystery about yourself when you go out during the times that he least expect it.
Here's the link after I did a search of all meetups in a 50 mile radius around Ann Arbor MI. The results should show if you click on the link.
I forgot you can't post links in quick reply. Anyhow here it is, at least one for Ann Arbor, MI.
Meetup.com in MI
Hi geordie,
I was thinking of you and had wondered about the R convo you were going to have. I am glad it didn't happen. Guess he is still considering the M.
Baby steps are all we can look forward to. I am glad you have a handful to be happy about.
You are right about him not knowing what he wants. I know it is hard to continue allowing him to sleep over, but you do not want to give him a reason to give up this M. Don't make him think he has gotten to the point of no return. Especially if he is having a MLC. He will snap out of it.
As for allowing this sitch to become permanent, I think I would rather have the uncertainty that at any moment my H will return to me than to have him completely move out and file for D. That is what got me where I was. I was being too pushy and I am sure a lot of my actions caused resentment on his part, so he pushed back and file. Even if he wanted to continue, I am sure the OW would not allow it. In disciplining the child; Be the good cop. Let her be the bad cop.
Wishing you strength!
ask them if they want to go out and have drinks or something on the nights that he sleeps over. see how he reacts. Once again don't make yourself too avaiable and creative a mystery about yourself when you go out during the times that he least expect it.
Thanks for your comments....problem is, because he is on night shift he sleeps here in the daytime so he would never know if I went out. Also with having the little one it is almost impossible to get out alone....hard to trust anyone with your child if you don't know them too well. But I am making progress in that area, getting to know someone I may be able to leave S with for a while, and occasionally I have taken S out with me for a meal with a friend. H seems curious to know my whereabouts too.
I did check out the meet up links....amazed to see one abour British ex-pats! I do miss home more now because of this situation. Would have SO MUCH support if I was home and plenty of opportunity to go out as the grandparents miss S so much and love to have him as much as possible! Guess that's why I didn't miss H over Xmas as I was having a lot of fun!
Recent interactions with H have been good; he has been doing little things for me (called me out of the blue last night asking what size the air con filter was as he was in the store and wanted to get one...??! Guess he wasn't with OW at that moment even though he just drove to her several hours previously). Tonight when I came in from work he was lying on the bed with S (trying to get him to sleep - guess he misses him since he's never around at bed time, and S usually sleeps in his crib) and he seemed really relaxed and didn't rush away when I came in. Wanted to show me how he makes S laugh. Things have been positive overall.
I told him that he wouldn't see S this weekend as we were going to California. He was curious to find out more but I smiled and said that details didn't matter (my brother is in the US for a week or so, so I am going to SF to see him). I know I shouldn't have but I said (as he was on his way out of the door) "I would have liked you to come with me...." he replied "err...oh..no, that isn't right". For some reason that made me quite upset.
Anyway, later on I felt really down depsite having a good day. It was that last comment he said that got to me, like he didn't even want to go anywhere with me. I called his cell (knowing that he wouldn't quite have reached OW yet). I told him I was sad and that even though I am trying to move on with my life I miss being a family and I hold out some hope that we may give our marriage another chance. I didn't say anymore or get too tearful (just a wavering voice); just wary of him thinking the sitch is OK and I'm happy about it. Anyway, for the first time in a while I feel like I heard some very geniune words...he told me "i do miss being with you babe" (and quickly followed that with "and of course I miss S too"). I told him that I didn't want to have a go at him or get angry or talk about R etc - just wanted him to know that I am hurting. Surprisingly he didn't try to get me off the phone (like ususal) and we changed the subject to california......of course I told him who and why (he kept asking who I knew in california and I am not a good liar.....too damn honest!). Anyway, all in all, it ended on a good note and he said "I'll see you tomorrow".
Ups and downs...it's giving me a headache. I'm very stressed with work this month although I am really trying to make the effort to keep looking after myself. Need to look good every time I see H and so far it's working. He is noticing.
Oh well...that's it for now.
4ever,
I know it is hard to continue allowing him to sleep over, but you do not want to give him a reason to give up this M. Don't make him think he has gotten to the point of no return. Especially if he is having a MLC. He will snap out of it.
Thanks....I hope you are right! Just not sure if I can wait that long.
As for allowing this sitch to become permanent, I think I would rather have the uncertainty that at any moment my H will return to me than to have him completely move out and file for D. That is what got me where I was. I was being too pushy and I am sure a lot of my actions caused resentment on his part, so he pushed back and file. Even if he wanted to continue, I am sure the OW would not allow it. In disciplining the child; Be the good cop. Let her be the bad cop.
Your words are really comforting. You are right and PATIENCE is what I need....and what I sorely lack! I know I shouldn't think about OW (have so many better words for her than OW but I guess I can't say them on this site.....) I could go on and on but I won't ....it's not productive. I really appreciate your point of view having gone through your sitch.
I told him that he wouldn't see S this weekend as we were going to California. He was curious to find out more but I smiled and said that details didn't matter (my brother is in the US for a week or so, so I am going to SF to see him). I know I shouldn't have but I said (as he was on his way out of the door) "I would have liked you to come with me...." he replied "err...oh..no, that isn't right". For some reason that made me quite upset.
You have every right to be upset as you were just being honest. But at the same token, try not to if you can, to express your desires right now. Just try to see what happens if you don't.
Anyway, later on I felt really down depsite having a good day. It was that last comment he said that got to me, like he didn't even want to go anywhere with me. I called his cell (knowing that he wouldn't quite have reached OW yet). I told him I was sad and that even though I am trying to move on with my life I miss being a family and I hold out some hope that we may give our marriage another chance. I didn't say anymore or get too tearful (just a wavering voice); just wary of him thinking the sitch is OK and I'm happy about it. Anyway, for the first time in a while I feel like I heard some very geniune words...he told me "i do miss being with you babe" (and quickly followed that with "and of course I miss S too"). I told him that I didn't want to have a go at him or get angry or talk about R etc - just wanted him to know that I am hurting. Surprisingly he didn't try to get me off the phone (like ususal) and we changed the subject to california......of course I told him who and why (he kept asking who I knew in california and I am not a good liar.....too damn honest!). Anyway, all in all, it ended on a good note and he said "I'll see you tomorrow".
Lord knows how many times I felt like this in the early beginnings of our separation. Though I never got past holding the phone but not actually calling, I've always wondered what would have happened if I did. Of course since I know what I know now it would've just put more pressure on her. It's totally understandable. On a good note, it may very have left a good impression. That the door is open should he decide to work on it.
Ups and downs...it's giving me a headache. I'm very stressed with work this month although I am really trying to make the effort to keep looking after myself. Need to look good every time I see H and so far it's working. He is noticing.
Kudos on the looking good part. But also keep in mind you're doing it for yourself as well. Looking good plays a major part in feeling good. When I started doing this, I have to admit I really worked hard so it wouldn't be too over the top or seem out of character. For a while there I felt like I was in MLC.
But in time it just felt natural. It's been a while since I was being hit on by women but if felt good. I only felt somewhat uncomfortable in instances where the ladies seemed to be in their mid 20's. I felt old enough to be their father.
I wonder what would have happened if my W was with me at that time. Just kidding! Just wondering.....
Time and patience are your allies. Make the most of them and use them to your advantage.
Keep up the good work and you and your family will be in my prayers.
I'm not sure if right now you have the desire to read up on books but one that I've been reading recently really caught my attention. It's entitled, "The Road Less Travelled" by M. Scott Peck MD. Check it out at your local library. You can google it and see the some excerpts before you decide to pick it up.
Hang in there my friend.
H
H seems curious to know my whereabouts too.
Don't forget to count this baby step.
I do miss home more now because of this situation. Would have SO MUCH support if I was home and plenty of opportunity to go out as the grandparents miss S so much and love to have him as much as possible! Also with having the little one it is almost impossible to get out alone....hard to trust anyone with your child if you don't know them too well.
Sorry for your lack of physical support here. But remember your DB pals are here! You may vent and know we will be here to listen. Emotional support.
I have a real hard time thinking someone other than my mother law would be caring for my D too. I don't mind baby sitting for you. Perhaps you can drop by when you are in California!
Recent interactions with H have been good; he has been doing little things for me (called me out of the blue last night asking what size the air con filter was as he was in the store and wanted to get one...??! Guess he wasn't with OW at that moment even though he just drove to her several hours previously). Tonight when I came in from work he was lying on the bed with S (trying to get him to sleep - guess he misses him since he's never around at bed time, and S usually sleeps in his crib) and he seemed really relaxed and didn't rush away when I came in. Wanted to show me how he makes S laugh. Things have been positive overall.
More baby steps to add to your list!
I know I shouldn't have but I said (as he was on his way out of the door) "I would have liked you to come with me...." he replied "err...oh..no, that isn't right". For some reason that made me quite upset.
Pretty sure I would have done the same. I would wonder while in California if I would have asked would he have come along. At least when you are away, he may even wondered what it would be like to be there with you and your S. I would have been upset too because of him now wanting to do the "right" thing. Hopefully, he will figure out what that is and return to your arms.
Anyway, for the first time in a while I feel like I heard some very geniune words...he told me "i do miss being with you babe" (and quickly followed that with "and of course I miss S too"). I told him that I didn't want to have a go at him or get angry or talk about R etc - just wanted him to know that I am hurting. Surprisingly he didn't try to get me off the phone (like ususal) and we changed the subject to california......of course I told him who and why (he kept asking who I knew in california and I am not a good liar.....too damn honest!). Anyway, all in all, it ended on a good note and he said "I'll see you tomorrow".
I think he is similar to my H in that respect. H shows me that he genuiuely cares about me, but then because he is afraid to commit to the R again, H tries to take back what has been said or done by withdrawing. In a way to protect himself and me. Doesn't want me to be lead on. I guess in a way they would like to believe they know what they want and strive to run the course with that. They are thrown off course when they unconsiously reveal not only to us, but themselves with words or actions they still have feelings for us. I am sure he just needs more time to figure it out on his own.
Ups and downs...it's giving me a headache. I'm very stressed with work this month although I am really trying to make the effort to keep looking after myself. Need to look good every time I see H and so far it's working. He is noticing.
Lots of progress to record on your list of baby steps!
I am happy for you. Keep the positives coming!
Hi geordie,
I have noticed you been MIA. Hopefully things has been going well and that is the reason why.
Take care!
Waiting to hear a positive update on your sitch.
Hi geordie,
I have noticed you been MIA. Hopefully things has been going well and that is the reason why.
Take care!
Waiting to hear a positive update on your sitch.
Thanks for checking! I wish I could say that my reason for MIA was a good sitch! Have been overwhelemed with work (not telling H as this is more fuel for the fire, so just trying to deal with it). Had a good trip to SF and then got back to so much work...off to the east coast next week (work) and H supposed to be looking after S.
Things with H seemed to be getting better....to the point I was becoming hopeful. We talked for 30 mins yesterday when I got back from work and he even held me and hugged me, almost kissed me. He said he misses me and it's really hard for him. Took a nose dive though when he said that he wanted to take S to stay with OW while I was on east coast for several days. Didn't want to be away from OW for so long (don't forget he is away from OW all day Tues, all day Wed then from Thurs noon to Sun late morning)...only this coming weekend he was supposed to be staying in our marital home until next Tues evening while I was gone. I didn't flip (internally I did!) but got upset and said that I couldn't, as a good mother, allow my son who isn't even 2yrs to stay in OW house...the woman that stole his daddy. It is not acceptable to put him in a position where he sees daddy with another woman. H just didn't understand where I was coming from and started to say how that means that he can never see S around OW ...ever (yep, that's correct, H, you will never have S around that *****). He thinks he can play happy families with her and doesn't think that it will affect S. He is in la-la land.
Anyway, we had a 2 hour phone convo late last night (OW must be working nights...so they actually see each other VERY little) - went over all this stuff, I cried, he got angry, parts were good (H said "I can never compare what I have with OW to what I have/had with you") and parts were bad (H = "my feelings for her are growing stronger and I can't be away from her for so many days....or I'll lose her just like I lost you"). Pained me to hear it. I told him that he hadn't lost me etc. I said that I was sorry that his feelings for another woman were stronger than his need to do right by his son. I did praise him a lot about being a good father, good around the house etc but him wanting to expose S to the affair has floored me. He doesn't see it as a affair.....!!!!!????
I mentioned the D word.
said that I cannot take this anymore....I am trying so hard to save my marriage, I'm changing all the things that I realized contributed to this from my part, but H is just flaunting the A in my face and treating me like a doormat. If he doesn't think that our marriage is worth saving and our family is not worth keeping intact then he needs to end it but that will end all contact with me. I cannot mentally deal with seeing the person I love walk in and out of my life knowing that he is being intimate with OW. He said he couldn't afford a lawyer and that he couldn't imagine never seeing me again.......so, he really hasn't changed his mind in the past 7 months....wants me as his best friend but not his wife and lover. I know that D isn't the answer and I don't want one, but I am starting to wonder if we can ever recover from this.....his second PA (and there was an additional EA in there too).
So, on a big downer now...but trying not to think about it because of my hectic work schedule. Things will calm down at work in another week so I guess that gives me time to see where the next step with H is going.
BTW he doesn't even want to spend ONE night alone with S while I'm gone so my babsitter is cutting short her trip to be able to take S for 3 days. If I could cancel this trip I would......
Hi geordie,
Sorry to hear about what is happening in your sitch.
If he doesn't think it is an A, he must be in denial. Must be a symtom of MIL.
Could your H not feel confident about taking care of your S on his own? Yes, he might miss OW but the issue may be he needs to have someone else there to help with caring for your S.
Don't feel too bad about mentioning D. There are times when just knowing what to expect helps us keep our sanity even if that means a D we don't want.
Take care of yourself and keep me posted.
If he doesn't think it is an A, he must be in denial. Must be a symtom of MIL.
Could your H not feel confident about taking care of your S on his own?
I have always thought there are symptoms of MIL too....
And H does take care of S on his own and has previously looked after him overnight when I've had to travel for work....so it's not about him not feeling confident. I honestly believe it is OW saying that they will not last if he spends so much time away from her.......some of the things that come out of his mouth are just not him talking.
Hi geordie,
I am sorry. It must be upsetting to see him being influenced by the OW. But at least you know he is not coming up with these things on his own. Once he comes out of it, he will see how foolish he was. And hopefully, when her demands become too troublesome or excessive, he may wonder if their interactions are worth it.
Stay Strong!
It must be upsetting to see him being influenced by the OW. But at least you know he is not coming up with these things on his own. Once he comes out of it, he will see how foolish he was. And hopefully, when her demands become too troublesome or excessive, he may wonder if their interactions are worth it.
I'm starting to wonder if he'll ever come out of it. Seems too comfortable with things, although he has said that this whole thing is hard for him and is very stressful. 4-Ever, What made you realize that your marriage was important and that you didn't want to lose your H?
Told me yesterday that the reason he wanted S with him while I'm out of town is that he already had something planned for Sunday/Monday and that's why he couldn't stay in our home. I told him I appreciated him telling me but how come he didn't do it sooner. He said he didn't know how to. I didn't get angry but calmly told him that I would really have appreciated him telling me over a month ago when I first asked him to look after S for 3 days, rather than him agreeing but all this time not knowing what to say and then dropping this on me at the last minute. He seemed guilty. I commented that if he had something planned then how come a little one could possibly fit in, was he just going to get someone else to babysit? He said not (and I believe him) but it makes me wonder what they have planned if a child could easily come along. I guess I have to stop thinking of all the things they are doing as it just messes up my head. I honestly thought that his child would be his number one priority - always. He did suggest that he come on Tues and collect S from childminder and also pick me up from the airport. I agreed and thanked him for suggesting it.
Later that evening before he went to work he sat and looked at me and told me he felt like a terrible father. I reassured him that he was a wonderful father but it was hard that he wasn't around much. We both had tears in our eyes. Anyway, before he left for work he hugged and kissed me on the lips - which is the first time since this whole thing began last summer.
I'm starting to wonder if he'll ever come out of it. Seems too comfortable with things, although he has said that this whole thing is hard for him and is very stressful. 4-Ever, What made you realize that your marriage was important and that you didn't want to lose your H?
There were several things that made me realize.
I think it helped when I stopped contact with OM. Sorry that is not possible in your case. But also when I was involved with OM, I had all these illusions of how much better my life would be. But when I was truly given a chance to try it, H moved out, I didn't get back with OM, but I talked to him over the phone once in a while and discovered, it was not all I imagined it to be. It wasn't the great love I thought we had. I had an EA with him. H was working on living his separate life without me and he seemed to enjoy it. He didn't seem to want or need me. Also I was pregnant with DD and it made me think of what kind of family I wanted my DD to grow up in.
It also helped me to understand why I had the As. Your H may not be ready for that. Up until I learned from reading Surviving the Affairs, Not Just Friends, DB, and DR, I still believed I must not be in love with my H because I had the As. But when I finally understood, it became clear. I love my H, have always loved my H, but I made decisions and acted on them believing otherwise.
Your H may seem to be comfortable with the situation, but I believe him that it is hard on him and it is very stressful. He must still not be sure of what he wants. If he did, then it would not be hard or stressful because he can then cut the ties he knows he doesn't care for. With that, I say it is a good sign.
I didn't get angry but calmly told him that I would really have appreciated him telling me over a month ago when I first asked him to look after S for 3 days, rather than him agreeing but all this time not knowing what to say and then dropping this on me at the last minute. He seemed guilty.
You handled it marvelously; Got your point across without losing your cool. And yes! He should feel guilty.
I commented that if he had something planned then how come a little one could possibly fit in, was he just going to get someone else to babysit? He said not (and I believe him) but it makes me wonder what they have planned if a child could easily come along.
At least it is nothing romantic. And this will serve as a reminder to him that he has a family and this little arrangement with the OW may not work into it well.
And little issues such as this is good in jolting him into reassessing whether all of this is worth what he has with OW.
Just make sure you continue to be supportive of him.
I guess I have to stop thinking of all the things they are doing as it just messes up my head. I honestly thought that his child would be his number one priority - always. He did suggest that he come on Tues and collect S from childminder and also pick me up from the airport. I agreed and thanked him for suggesting it.
True. Your imagination will be worst than the truth. I have let mine get the best of me most of the time and it has only made things worst.
The fact that he is trying to make amends by picking you up at the airport shows he still cares about your view of him. That will work in your favor.
Later that evening before he went to work he sat and looked at me and told me he felt like a terrible father. I reassured him that he was a wonderful father but it was hard that he wasn't around much. We both had tears in our eyes. Anyway, before he left for work he hugged and kissed me on the lips - which is the first time since this whole thing began last summer.
I think it is great you are giving him the reassurance he needs. This will help him see you will be supportive and you two can be a team. Baby steps.
Geordie,
I feel for you girl!! I wish I lived closer to you,,maybe could help w/daycare,,I could not imagine how lonely it could be w/o family & friends, but anyway, I think you are being so much braver than I could ever be!! Sometimes I believe in what goes around-comes around,,soon she will leave him w/a broken heart to clean up after just like he left you! I can't speak from my sitch,,,my H tells me that their is no one else and I have tried sooo hard catching him but I can't! I think you most definately caught it in time(my H & I have been living in separate houses for 4yrs!)
I can only dream to have as much resolve as you do now,,I think you are a very confident & smart woman to figure this out and HE WILL MISS what he had,,,I think I can say this b/c my H is also a "workaholic"-i'm not and "not much room for sex"-i'm a bit more needy in that area!
Hang in there and I hope all goes well for you!
I think you are being so much braver than I could ever be!! Sometimes I believe in what goes around-comes around,,soon she will leave him w/a broken heart to clean up after just like he left you!
Thanks Kim! I don't feel brave..just dealing the best I can. It's very difficult some days but others I just seem to be used to it. I guess H's night shifts helped to me feel OK about being on my own at night. I also believe in what comes around goes around....his previous OW (1PA, 1EA) both had something very bad happen to them within a few years - which was quite freaky. Co-incidence probably but still....
Anyway, a few days ago H seemed in no rush to get away from me and said "I don't know how you can ever forgive me for this"....I just said that I am reading and talking to people and it really helps - I can forgive you and forgive myself because we both made mistakes, and forgiveness is a gift I give myself". Never thought I could be so matter of fact about it but I was :o. He hugged me tight. As he left he said something about it being/will be/(can't remember which) "hard to come back mentally"....so does this mean baby steps....giant leaps? My gut instinct told me that he was trying to come back but as I analyze it more I get confused and think the opposite.
Anyway, since that convo he has been OK - haven't talked about R and he seems to be wanting to keep convos going even if they are about nothing in particular, eg. he called me on his way from OW to work and we talked about nothing for 30 mins...... I still don't see any sign of him coming back but I have to tell myself that it could be a lot of coming and going before that happens (if indeed that's what he wants).
Yesterday as he was sleeping off his night shift in our home I lay on the bed with him - on his chest - he hugged me and kissed my forehead. Last time I lay on his chest he didn't do anything. I am scared to get my hopes up....but I am noticing things. I have to control myself SO MUCH now....don't want to blow anything if he really is considering coming back. And if he is....I think I will start thinking "do I really want him..." That scares me also.
Well, the past week has had its ups and downs. But the positive things H has said were:
- I don't feel like I deserve to come back
- the 14 years that we had will never compare to what I have with OW
- This is all I've ever wanted (meaning me, S, the house etc)
- how can I face your parents again
- how can you ever forgive me
- Don't think I'm having a great time because this situation is stressing me out
- I don't want to look back and regret making a big mistake by leaving you
Words I know.....not to be believed....but I am wondering whether he is starting to come out of his fog. Of course, there were tears and I slipped back into calling her a wh***....saying their whole R is based on lies and deceit (he denied it, saying that they didn't lie to each other (!!!???!!!).
He hugs me tight and calls from work, calls me "babe" and even says "babe" on the texts he sends. This past week has has called on the 2 days that I never usually hear from him. He looked me in the eye, held me tight and said "I'm sorry. I'm sorry for everything". Said it with tears in his eyes. I said "me too". Despite all these positives he still drives back to OW (says he's "not ready yet" to stay over at our home). I guess I just don't know whether he really wants to come back or whether he is just keeping his options open and seeing who (me or OW) will kick him out first. My heart tells me he is seriously messed up in the head and IF he is committed to coming back and breaking all contact with OW we could rebuild our marriage. My common sense tells me that perhaps I should get out of this R now.....This is the second PA (albeit the most severe, and the first was 12yrs ago)and I don't know if I can ever trust him again.
Advice please!! Is this normal behavior for someone considering coming back? He admitted to me that he has strong feelings for her.
Just when I think I am coping I get down again.....
Geordie,
I'm very optomistically, cautiously rooting for you!! It sounds like a lot of the DBing you have been doing is paying off!
Keep DBing and GALing,,,I will too!
You're my hero, sista!
Kim
So, the rollercoaster continues. H stayed til 10pm one night (usually leaves at 5.30 after looking after S1 when I come home)...there was no R talk for a few hours b/c he didn't want to start as there was so much to talk about. Eventually he did start......here's the basics:
- does not want to give up OW, has strong feelings for her
- H "thinks" that I will have to go to HI alone (need to go for work but was hoping it could be a 2nd honeymoon...not til Aug so thought I have time for things to work in that direction)
- I validated and listened. Told him I did not want to lose him but if that's what he wanted I would not stop him as I want him to be happy.
- Told him that we would need to see L and put house up for sale (he said he couldn't do that to me...couldn't see my lose the house)
- said he wants to "resolve" this situation (but said it in the context of wanting to be with OW)
- says that he is very stressed and he is becoming snappy with OW and he doesn't want her to see that side of him (whoa!! Still in la-la land me thinks!)
- BUT then he comes and sits by me and strokes my hand....
- tells me that he feels like he has been a different person and that he is starting to come out of a fog and see things differently
- is starting to resent OW for coming between H and S1
- angry at OW for handing herself to him and putting him in this sitch (???hello....??)
- doesn't feel like he deserves to have everything he has with me, S, house etc
- I made mention of his parents (who D after father ran off with 16yr old - when my H was 16yr himself
)..said that while I am sure that his parents always loved him it makes me wonder whether they showed that in a way he could understand (yes, read the Five Language of Love book...it is WONDERFUL)....when I said that he burst into tears and told me that he never felt like they really loved him. (I think I hit a raw spot with that one)
- I actually showed him the DR book (for the first time)....and read the Marriage Map bit. He cried.....
When H left that night we hugged tight and I got the feeling that this whole sitch isn't over yet....he said we would continue to try and resolve it this weekend. (Fri/Sat when he is in town)
Since then, these past few days he has been calling and texting (incl using "babe" in texts and convo). He saw a framed photo of the 3 of us yesterday in my office and commented on what a nice picture it was. No more R convo this weekend (but good interaction) and he is at work now and I won't see him til Tues. He initiated a kiss on the (almost) lips tonight before leaving.......
Aaarrggghhhh....this is a hard sitch. I think that I would be better finding someone new and having those wonderful feelings again. But then I pinch myself and remind myself that those feelings don't last and it would be better to put effort into this M. I know that is the right thing to do. And it's what I want to do in my heart...I just wish it was in his too. But if I recall what our interactions were 6 months ago, this is pretty darn wonderful. So, patience, patience. A virtue I am finding it INCREDIBLY hard to get! I'm amazed that I have been able to listen and validate even when he talks about OW. Before reading DR and these boards, there is NO WAY I could have done it. Honestly. A big fear of mine is that by the time he is ready to come home, I will no longer want him. Is that normal too???
Geordie,,
I missed ya!
You are doing such a fantastic job,,keep it up b/c its' working!! Its' like a train thats' going up the hill w/momentum & is almost to the top,,BUT,,if it loses that momentum its' gonna end up right back down at the bottom where it started,,DON'T stop what you're doing-you're making him think w/o even knowing it!!
So proud of ya girl!!
I think its' pretty normal to start thinking , "Hey i've been GALing & being supportive & validating as a friend for a while here & now I don't know if I really want this right now"! This is great because I think this will help you to keep doing what you're doing & not backslide!
Keep up the good work!!
My H also had a "DisneyLand Dad" that saw him & his sister twice a month from the age of 8yrs old,,lived w/his mom til 16yrs old,,then moved in w/his GF's parents til he graduated from HS(Salutitorian, no less),,then off to the military for a couple yrs in CA,,then moved to CO to live w/his dad(dads' been married 3 times, common law would be ?8) & met me 1 1/2yrs later,,hes' never lived on his own until now and I think he is liking it too much!
Kim
Thanks Kim! I needed some positive things.....hate Sundays as he is with OW now til Tues. It's hard to keep the momentum going when I feel like screaming at him what an a**hole he is being. And how can he see anything good in some w**** that knowingly takes a little boy's daddy's away. Blows my mind.
What is it with these S who end up repeating history.....if this ends in D then I will certainly NOT be open to being with someone whose father left........
Geordie,,
So glad you're taking your frustrations out on me instead of him!
The one standing on higher ground wins,,anyway, yeah,,I wasn't paying attention when my H & I met,,maybe if I was I would of noticed all those things,,but then again I wouldn't have my beautiful children!!
H's b-day was today,,just got back from taking him out to dinner w/boys! Everything went great,,no arguments,,lots of laughing,,talking(but not re: R)! I got to ride in the new hummer, yeaee,,he dropped off boys & I at my house, I told boys to go inside & get ready for bed,,,THEN,,,
I looked at him, said I was sorry, he said for what,,I said for this & then I grabbed him and kissed him for about 30secs.,, then told him I had a great time,,happy b-day and don't work too hard tonight(he has to go back to the office)
He seemed to be enjoying it,,kissed me back,,I wanted sooo much to ask him if he wanted to come back after work & spend the night @my house(20mins away) BUT I didn't,,,my God I didn't think this would be so hard,,I want him so badly I can't stand it! He looked so good tonight I just wonder if hes' not working & going out on another date??
The thing is,,he leaves on a business trip to JeJu, Korea on Thursday, which i'm taking him to the airport for,,should I hug him or kiss him goodbye again???
I hate to say it but the only time we haven't had intimate relations for more than 5wks(where we are now) has been after giving birth to my boys(that was 6wks)!! Guess i'm not very patient!! Oey!!
Kim
WOW Kim!!! I am so pleased for you!!! Sounds like there have been some big steps here...keep up the good work! Don't get tempted to push for too much - remember that if you end the interactions it makes you look the one in control and not needy etc.
See how things go at the airport. I would hug him and just see if a kiss would fit into things - if it seems too forced don't do it as it will look needy.
Keep the PMA and don't backslide now!
Thanks Geordie, I can always count on you for help!
I will do just that,,the hug,,if it turns to something more then so be it,,if it doesn't-I will walk away w/my head held high, smiling til he can't see me anymore when i'm driving away,,then i'll cry!
I really wanted to go on this trip w/him,,he gets to travel to the ends of the earth w/people he knows for work!! I'm so jealous! I will miss him as well as I don't feel good about this flight,,Korean Air!
Goodnight, sleep tight & don't let the H bugs bite!
Kim
Just journaling.....
Went away for weekend with S1....made a point of texting H goodnight before going to bed (he was at our marital home as he was working night shift)..his responses seemed good; "babe" and kisses etc. Called and spoke to him on Sat... he wanted to know if our friends' H was out with us, seemed interested in what we were doing.
BUT got home last night...no call to see if we landed safely....I called him 4 times between 10pm and midnight and it kept going to voicemail (he is always with OW Sun and Mon) then called him again today....voicemail. He is totally ignoring my calls because he is with her. Doesn't he even care that our plane didn't crash? I have his toddler son with me and being with that wh*** of a homewrecker is more important than answering my call...I could be calling to tell him that S was in hospital. I have been so down last night and today....I am seriously considering just ending this marriage so I can move on. This pain is just too much for me.
Do others go through this? I just feel that H is stringing me along until he gets his ducks in a row and then can simply transition out of my life.
I thought we were improving.....now this. He's just going to turn up on my doorstep tomorrow ready to look after S1 while I go to work, like nothing ever happened but I just don't even want to see him. Feel like taking S1 to someone else to look after while I to to work .....
I just feel so low again.
I have been told this is just their selfish ways,me, me, me, and forget evryone including the kids. if you read my stich my H has even forgotten to pick up the kids from daycare for me!! I understand he NEVER picks them up, but give me a bvreak ,i was out of town!
Hi geordie,
Been reading through your posts and can very much relate to your sitch. Separated from H 8 months ago. I have 2 small boys (4 and 1). Read DB and DR and have tried the techniques, although to no avail (unless I can't see them). I'm also living in a foreign place but have made some really great friends over the years and am also very close to my in-laws. Thought H's EA was over because OW moved, but recently I'm suspicious that she's moved back and he's now having PA/living with her. Have very little contact with him - only see him on the weekends briefly.
Anyways, I just wanted to say that I can totally understand the ups and downs - the wanting to do anything and everything to save your marriage, but then having those times of feeling like it's totally hopeless and maybe better to give up and move on while kids are still young. Also can't decide whether to stay here or move back to the states. Have tried to GAL - even got a part-time job - but while it's great to have something else to think about, being a full-time mom, I'm finding it very stressful to juggle. Plus don't want to make any sudden changes to boys' routines.
My post is under Newcomer's forum - Finally posting - starting to crash. After my first post, I find this very addicting!
Hang in there.
still hoping
Well the rollercoaster continues......found out that OW and H have moved out of apartment and into a house (he dropped himself in it)....although he denies it's anything other than him just going with her (nothing they bought together).
Something just made me say "so do you think you will ever come home?". He hung his head and said "I would love to". Whoaaaa......What the F**??????????
Trying not to get my hopes up but over the last few days he has said similar things but with the caveat that it's not so easy to just come home. I'm trying to DB and validate etc but I just want to get his stuff and bring it all back.
We were talking today when he got a text. I asked who from...and he told me it was OW...so there's an improvement as he usually ignores my question when it relates to her.
Hopes dashed again today when he said that he is not working on Easter Sat - I suggested we may do something together that night but he said he was planning on going back to OW on Sat morning after his Friday night-shift......I guess I am starting to wonder how he can want to come home but not want to spend any time with me...........??? Is this what I'm going to have to live with for another few months?????
Chicki
Sorry to hear....will read your sitch and see what I can contribute.
Still Hoping
Thanks for your words. Going through this with little ones in tow makes me realize how strong we can be. Why can't our H's think of the kids' wellbeing rather than just walk out and leave them with us to pick up the pieces??
Where are you living right now?
I've made some good friends and even have someone who I trust enough to look after S1 for a few hours so I may even get to go out one evening!!
I'll hop over and read your posts!
So, over the past few days H does mention that he wishes he could turn the clock back, wants to come home...blah blah but he is STILL LIVING WITH OW!!!!!!!! Says he doesn't know how to end it with her since he still has feelings for her and this whole sitch has changed him.......I'm so confused again.
Will this ever end? Does he really want his family back or is this just his way of trying to have both????
He is very very confused Geordie. I think that guilt is probably holding him back from making a choice. Hang in there.
Listen to him as a lover/friend. Be the one he can open up to, it will make it easier for him to decide to come home to you. If he is discussing these feeling with her she could quite possibly be angry and scream at him to stay with her, which will only push him away. Make sure you are the "safe" person to come to.
Good luck.
Thanks HeartScared
Had a terrible day - snapping at S1 and just generally breaking down in tears much of the day. Feel like I can't cope with this anymore. Feel numb and used. I don't even think I have the ability to have a relationship with anyone anymore. Just totally empty.
H doesn't plan on being with us this weekend since he isn't working Sat night - plans on being with OW - so how can he want to come home? He has a perfect opportunity to spend time with us that he never normal gets - but he won't. I guess our home is his hotel when he comes into town for work.
Me and S1 alone again.....when everyone else is spending time with family and having BBQs in the nice weather. Here I go, feeling sorry for myself again!
H says he has been away so long (moved out 6 months ago) that it is hard to come back....but it seemed so easy to leave me after 14 years! I just don't get it. Although he did say that he wishes he could turn back the clock so this didn't happen. I guess that's a positive. I told him we couldn't change the past but we can change what happens from this point on.
I know that I need to hold out a bit longer and let OW be the one begging and crying....but I don't want to be second best, i.e. when she gives him an ultimatum and he runs home (or not).
Guess I'm just having a bad day...
Geordie
Keep your chin up you are doing well. Your sitch sounds so similar to mine as you know except my WAW has not moved in with davedick.
It is so hard but with all the support here I am coping and you can too
Away the lads!
Cheers MillyMoose!
Up and down....H does want to come back and actually said to me "I hope you can be patient with me while I sort this mess out". Words I never thought I would hear - now that I hear them I want more!! I do feel that things are improving in a big way but I don't get why he just can't up and leave OW. Weird.
Wish I was back in Blighty sometimes...would cope so much better with a regular night on the Toon
The good thing about being so far away though is that my family are spared the details and my up-and-downs and since I chose not to talk to them (to protect H really incase he did decide to come back) I am hoping that things will be easier with everyone IF/WHEN he comes back to earth. Strange how so many of my friends don't even know he has left!!! See, Northerners are tough!
Oh...and I decided that I had to make some boundaries too....so I did say in a very nice and calm way that it was his choice not to spend Sat with his son but if he chose to go back to OW on his night off work then his words re coming home are not matching his behavior and I am left thinking that he is using our home as a hotel. I actually said that I would need to re-evaluate where I'm at in terms of thinking it's OK for him to sleep his night shifts off here (when really I wanted to say "if you don't stay on Sat night then you can forget staying ever again"). But, I think I said it in a nice, detached and loving way and it made him think. He commented later that "if I do stay Sat then don't get mad when I go back to OW on Sunday"....of course I wanted to slap him but I suppose the baby step is to have him stay over on Sat first.....
Also, the whole detached and loving/best friend stuff...well it does work because H said yesterday that my behaviour has surprised him......so, MillyMoose, keep going because my H has been gone over 6 months and he's only just starting to see the light (I think)
These boards are what keeps me going.....
P.S MillyMoose....for some reason I cannot post on your messages any more ...all the "reply" "quote" buttons are gone and I don't know why!
Geordie
I have a new thread going 'The oosalem bird is still flying' last one locked out!!!
Good to hear your PMA!!
My W also says that 'we get on so well' but 'that she does not see me as her other half'!!!!
Oh well onwards and upwards!!
Yep, I'm here - just don't get to check these boards every day as I'm so busy with work and being a single parent
H called me several times yesterday just to say Hi....he does seem to be coming down to earth but I just need him to get rid of OW. For good.
Nosedive.....today he was talking about the house and how he doesn't want me to have to sell - doesn't want to take the responsibility for me losing my career and life over here (we had been talking about what I would do if he didn't come back and I was honest and said that in order to give son the best quality of life with a real family I would move back home even if it meant giving up the career I had always wanted). Said he'd been away so long he didn't know if he could mentally come back...his feeling for OW strong..blah blah. Said he wasn't ready to stay the night this weekend when he is off work.
When will he ever be ready? I have heard this line from him for weeks.....I feel like a doormat now and I did say that if it was his decision not to stay over then I have to keep my boundaries in place and that I didn't think it would be appropriate to keep staying over here just to sleep off his night shift. He was surprised that I would stick to it and said "so if I am not staying tomorrow night then there is no point in coming here in the morning after my night shift"...I didn't answer. Everything seems so black and white to him that I am starting to wonder if I really should just get out of this relationship now and find something better. I even looked at him tonight through my tears and thought "what's the point? I can do so much better". I am trying to tell myself that this is a normal feeling in this situation but I can't get this nagging doubt away that perhaps someone somewhere is trying to tell me to get out of this relationship - because he will deceive me again and again.
We got into some OW talk - I know I shouldn't - but I told him the truth only this time we didn't argue. I calmly told him what I thought and that I thought he was better than to be infatuated with some low self-esteem person who thought it was OK to steal someone else's husband. I have admitted my part of the breakdown so many times (workaholic).
I suggested that perhaps he felt torn because she was starting to lay down the law with him and give ultimatums - and he didn't say anything (silence from him usually means I've hit the nail on the head).
He said "but this is the 2nd time I've done this to you" - almost like he wanted me to say that therefore how could I ever trust that he wouldn't do it again. Like he wants justification of why he shouldn't come back. I pointed out that last time it happened we were also neglecting our relationship - there is a pattern. I also said "so, in OW you have found the perfect person and despite having all the baggage you have now, and the guilt that you will no doubt carry with you, you will never cheat on her for the rest of your life?" That made him think.
Anyway, he went to work this evening and less than 10mins after he left he called "to talk"....we talked calmly - a little about his own upbringing and a bit about how no marriage is perfect but those who stay together work out the problems instead of running away and constantly thinking there's something better. It ended in a good way.
So, at this point I really don't know if he will come tomorrow morning after work or not. I guess I have to face facts that my marriage is all but over.
Geordie
I think you are prbably a litle ahead of my own sitch but it does sound like he is trying to rationalise his own actions and why he has done what he has.
You seem to be doing fine but these little signs of life are so hard and then they knoeck you back to earth!!!
Keep going, stiff upper lip and all that, and you will succeed in whatever you want to happen!!
All the best
Well H came home after his nightshift on Sat, slept, then spent the rest of the day with me and S. Had a good time although we did get into some R talk (he initiated it)....lots of tears...seemed like he is so happy with her he cannot give her up. But then he is hugging me and telling me he loves me (which he hasn't said in I don't know how long). Says he doesn't know how to mentally come back. He didn't stay overnight but stayed til 9pm. So I suppose that's an improvement since he wasn't even intending on coming over at all on Sat - was going to drive straight to OW after work.
I was so upset after he'd gone....sobbing my heart out. Tried calling him multiple times around 10.30pm (thinking he'd still be en route) but he didn't answer. I cried myself to sleep. Next morning I called again and again - nothing. Cried again. Feel like I am sinking and I know I am putting my emotions too much onto him but I feel so lost again.
Anyway, he called at 9.20am Sunday morning asking if I was OK. I said "no". We talked for 20 mins and he said that he really did mean everything he said about wanting to come home. His head is just screwed up (he said that). Said he would call or text later. He didn't so I called him ...nothing. (I KNOW I SHOULDN'T!!). Anyway, at 8pm I had a long text: "I hope you haven't had too bad a day babe. I hope little man has been OK. I would call you if I could. It was good spending time with you both yesterday. I'll talk to you soon". I didn't answer but I notice the positives (babe, good spending time, would talk if I could....it's almost like he's having the affair with me, which I suppose is a good thing). I am just so confused.....not even sure if I want this...feel like I am working so hard at this marriage to make a point sometimes, without even considering whether he is who I REALLY want. But, no-one is perfect and all marriages have problems.....that's what I tell myself any way.
Spoke with DB coach again today (first time in 3 months)....I think I am trying to make his return too easy, which isn't a good goal. He needs to recognise the value of being with me. I'm his best choice and I'm worth the struggle in our relationship. Cost doesn't matter but value does. I'm demonstrating value and he has to pay the price - it's not good for me to lower my price just to get him back because then won't work for either of us in the long term.
I feel more positive now but I am scared. Not that I cannot do it on my own - because I can - but because our son will not grow up in the family he deserves because his father can't/won't attempt to heal this marriage. Before this A, my H was a wonderful father and they had a bond that my friends envied....he is losing that bond over time. And my love for him seems to be slipping away.
Had really good interactions Tues (H was particularly attentive, hugging etc) but Wed was bad. We got into R talk
as I was leaving for work (just after he arrived to look after S) and I ended up not going to work......
Lots of tears by both of us, heavy conversation. While he doesn't want to be a divorce statistic, doesn't want to lose me, and wants to be a proper father (his words), he is not willing/able to give up OW. His feelings for her are so strong, something that he has not felt before therefore it must be right (I want to bash his head off a brick wall for that statement!).
I talked about him about trust issues and did he really think he could trust her not to go after another married man, and could she really trust him not to be seduced by another woman (I KNOW...I SHOULD"T BUT SOMETIMES I CAN"T HOLD MY MOUTH!)...but he believes he CAN trust her and she can trust him. Jeezzz....I am floored. La-la land again.
He ended up leaving our home at 1.30pm when he usually leaves at 6pm since he admitted he couldn't cope with the heavy conversation. He said he needed to be alone; I said he was running to OW, he said she was at work so he would be alone.
He did call me an hour or so later to see if I was OK. I then called him a bit later to see how he was...no answer x 3, then he sent a text that he got back OK, I called him, no answer so I knew he was with OW. The only time he won't answer but will text is when he is with her. I left him a message saying that "I cannot live like this anymore, I'm sorry" and put the phone down. I was devastated all over again. I wanted to say "don't bother coming back, it's over" but I held my tongue. Wish I could have held it more and not have called him in the first place. Within 20 mins he sent me a text saying "can we talk tomorrow? She came home from work sick" so I think he is worried now.....that's the first time he's mentioned OW as a justification of why he's not answering. I didn't respond.
So, despite a bad day, when I reflect there were several good points:
1. doesn't want to lose me
2. doesn't want to get divorced
3. doesn't want another man bringing up his son
4. said that both his heart and head were telling him what the right thing to do was but it felt he couldn't break from OW
5. OW has started to bug him about ending it with me (now I know this, I can maybe hold on a little longer)
6. said he can't go on like this, it's too stresful....it's killing him (he said he feels like shooting himself in the head but admitted that would mean he didn't have to make a decision)
7. asked me to not stop trying
8. asked me to give him space
9. our son's birth was the best day of his life, followed by our wedding day
10. he has ON HIS OWN started reading some of the books that are keeping me going and even suggested that he would take them into work to read on his break. Currently reading "After the Affair" by Janis Spring - title a little misleading since it is a fab read for anyone even those not going through this. Also "Not Just Friends" by shirley Glass is wonderful too. I hope he will read both.
When I list things out like this it makes me realize that he is very bonded to me and we have a good chance of this thing working out. I just feel completely devalued by being a choice between everything we share and some cheap homewrecker. Makes me feel worthless even though I know i'm not. And it makes me think less of him too. That's what scares me.
So....the saga continues. Any advice on what to do now would be appreciated....I'm afraid of backsliding now
OK...so how come H says he wants to come home but he STILL drives 2 hours to stay at OW house every night after I get home from work and then in the early morning he gets up and drives 2hrs back to look after our S...??? And he stays at our home when sleeping off his night-shift.
Last night he left our home at 6pm when I got back from work, drove 2 hours to OW house (so, say 8pm he got there) but then ended up going to a movie on his own which must have started around 9pm because he called me at 11pm when it finished. He just wanted to see how me and S were. I guess OW was on night shift. So why was he doing all that driving to OW when she wasn't even there? He admits all the driving is getting to him.
I don't understand.......(unless he wanted the night to himself..????)
Says he needs to sort his head out but how can he sort his head out when he is driving back to OW to spend the night?
How long do I need to put up with this?
Sad thing is my situation isn't too much different from yours and I am scared to death. My story is in this forum entitled Are they just friends... Help! I hope I get some kind of response soon it is killing me. He seems to be getting worried about what I am doing, but other than that seems to have no interest in talking about ANYTHING! It sounds as if you are least getting somewhere!!!
Well, had a really good week. It was S 2nd birthday and we had a party for him (albeit on a day that H was here anyway as he said he wouldn't be there if it was Sunday as he would be with OW). Thought we were really getting somewhere. Only friend that knows the deal with us said it looked so natural that he was at home etc. She said she could really see that he was starting to come home.
Then, tried calling him several times on Sunday and Monday (the days he is with OW). No response. I needed to talk to him about childcare on Tuesday morning (he has S in our home). He eventually called me back Monday night (stepped outside OW house to talk as she was inside). We ended up in R talk
and I asked that since it has now been 4 weeks that he has been talking about coming home, what steps has he taken to do it. Turns out that he has never even mentioned to OW that he wants to come home. Says he thinks he is in love with the "idea" that we can work it out but he's not willing to put his money where his mouth is as he loves her and cannot leave her.
I am totally devastated. Sobbed all night....back to square one. He's been stringing me along for the last month, keeps asking for more time to sort his head out and I have been giving it to him - stupidly. All the time he has been having fun with a whore.
I am totally broken - again. Don't think I can go on any longer. I am emotionally battered and I don't think I have the strength for this anymore.
He didn't show up at our home this morning to take care of our son - so I am stuck and cannot go into work. He ignored all my calls asking where he was - I was waiting by the front door ready to go to work. When he finally called - he said he slept in this morning and wouldn't be coming to look after son today. He has responsibilities to son and he's just dumped him. Now my job is suffering.
He doesn't think that the OW is a bad person - "this is the first time she has had an A with a married man, so it's OK" in his eyes and it doesn't make her a liar and a cheat. You can imagine how I felt when I heard him say that.
I know I deserve better. But the thought of being a statistic and our son growing up in a single parent family scares me so much. I married him so I believe that we have to work out our problems, not run from them. Maybe I should have realized this would happen - after all he had a PA after we'd been together 2 years and then 5yrs later he had an EA with his best friend's girlfriend immediately before and after our wedding. When our S was born 2 years ago he even contacted the EA to share his good news about the baby!!! He has no idea about boundaries....
I feel worthless. I have given him everything - always bailed him out financially. I know that's been a problem - I have always taken care of him, like the mother he never had, because she was so busy with her anger at his unfaithful dad (who ran off with a 16yr old when my H was 16 himself). My H has never had to do anything for himself - I've always helped him and now I'm paying the price.
Here goes.....
Ater more than 2 months of talking about coming home H surprised me by calling one afternoon asking if he could come and see S....two days later he moved all of his stuff out of OW house (told her hours before he actually left that he was leaving her) and brought it all home. Unloaded everything. Went to work night shift for the next 3 nights then we had one night under the same roof at night (separate rooms). Then at 11.30pm one night we were sitting watching TV and all of a sudden he got up, said "I just can't do this...it was a mistake to come back"...went and got all of his suitcases (which he hadn't even unpacked) and disappeared........leaving me again stuck for childcare.
Then we were both due to go to the same meeting out of town. He changed his mind but then after I'd flown there, he called me the next day saying that he was driving 10 hours to be there (which he did) and we had a completely normal time. I was then due to go on another business trip the next week which he had bought tickets to accompany me....the night before I flew he called from work to say he wasn't coming - so he lost the money for the tickets. Then he called me while I was there saying he wished he'd gone with me.......
He is seriously messed up in the head.
He continued to come and sleep his nightshift off at our home but then, just as I thought we were trying to restore some sense of normality....he called me at 8am on Sunday morning after getting off work saying that he wasn't coming home because it was causing him so much anxiety to try and be a normal family. Said I wouldn't see him til Tues when he looks after S. Who knows if he will show up tomorrow or not. I think he has gone to the local-ish hotel where he has been spending a lot of time.
This is the same pattern as when he was with OW so it is very possible that he is still with her, although I know that he hasn't been living back with her - he is still secretive with his phone and hasn't yet changed his number back to a local area code, nor have I seen more than 2 pieces of mail in a month addressed to him. I think they are still in touch although I can't be bothered to even find out for sure. I am no longer a private detective which is great for me mentally but I think it means I am losing interest in this marriage.
He admits that he doesn't want to lose everything he has with me and that he needs help....but he's been saying this for so long. He promised (again) that he would call the couples therapist I have started seeing. I think he is depressed and I am concerned that he will do something bad to himself. But I can't help him anymore. He has to help himself now.
The sad thing is that our S2 is understanding more and more as time goes on. And I am getting more detached from the situation - which is good for my mental health but it is driving me further and further away from wanting to even try and save this marriage. D was never an option for me but I just feel like I am enabling his behavior and that is pathetic on my part. I am scared that this marriage cannot be saved because he will not help himself and I cannot continue to live in an empty marriage. I see so much hope but only if he gets help to sort himself out.....we cannot sort "us" out until he deals with his underlying depression.
What happens to the LBS when this sort of detachment occurs....is it more likely to end in D?? THe longer this goes on the more I feel it can't be saved. I guess I just want someone to tell me that it really can be saved.