Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 10 1 2 8 9 10
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
Originally Posted by Gordie
Butterfly thank you for your red flags think it is easier for others to see them so for red flag 1 there is some validity there partly due to me being a less supportive H than I should have been all along but partly on her and living up to what her father wanted and projecting that on to me I never asked her to give up career to be a sahm but she clearly still blames that and other life choices on me


BINGO Gordie - read what you just wrote again please: her father was NOT supportive of her; you are supportive of your daughter ... She wanted/wants her dad to be the kind of dad you are to your kids. She didn't get that and she's p@ssed. The child of the same gender is the mirror and the one we will have the most trouble with if there are unresolved issues. This is textbook.

Originally Posted by Gordie
Red flags 2 and 3 I find more confusing and troubling and it never dawned on me that she is somehow jealous of her own children and she recently said she did not know why I am supportive of my daughter in her professional ambition in a way that I am not to her and did not know what to say to that so said nothing and yes she had issues in her childhood that are all wrapped up in this and are still wreaking havoc on her psyche and I cannot fix this in her

Gordie I'm sure she's not even aware that she's jealous of her own children. I'd bet she has a tougher time with the girls than the boys.

No, you absolutely cannot fix this in her. This is hers to fix, and hers alone.

Originally Posted by Gordie
I was not aware that you heard a similar speech was that before at or after b d


The day of BD it was a lot of talk specifically targeted to cause as much psychic pain as possible.

in the days and weeks post BD there were many awful, horrible conversations again designed to cause as much emotional damage as possible. A lot of comments of how in essence I put son ahead of exh, and son didn't need me to do the things that normal parents do - but exh doesn't know that is what a normal parent would do because his parents were anything but normal. There have been many many instances of exh saying things that are so obviously based in jealousy. In fact, exh pushed me so far one day in mediation and was so nasty that I turned to him in shock and said, "My God, you're angry because I became Son's mother and stopped being yours!" - it is such a true statement on so many levels and was patently obvious by the way he reacted when I said it and what he complained most about.

Exh's ongoing song was, "No one ever did that for me, so why should I do it for son? I turned out just fine." (Yeah, obviously; nothing wrong with him that divorcing me couldn't fix, right?)

This permeated the entire mediation then divorce and now post-divorce process. Yet, when our mediation was all over, exh turned to me and said, "You never asked for anything for yourself. It was always for Son and what to do to protect him or provide for him." This was said in a puzzled and shocked tone.

I said, "Yes, that's what a mother is supposed to do, isn't it?" I know that bothered him greatly ... That entire mediation process was him comparing his childhood experience of divorcing parents with our son's and being completely jealous of the fact that son had a mother who would protect him at all costs, which exh's mother did NOT do, and that I wouldn't ever use son as a weapon, which is all my ex-inlaws did with exh and ex-bil.

I know- it's bizarre. But this is in essence the root of the damage for most of these MLCrs, as far as I can tell. When I think about it in this way, I'm able to let go of the hurt, anger, bitterness and resentment and feel compassion for the hurt child who is striking out because they don't know what else to do. Doesn't make it acceptable or ok on any level, but does make it somewhat understandable, and allows fierce compassion to come in which gives me relief.

Hope this helps? xoxoxo




Last edited by job; 07/24/18 11:37 AM. Reason: edited a word

M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,605
G
Gordie Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,605
Butterfly

You have literally blown my mind

Yes she has a more troubled relationship with the girls

In the Women in MLC book it talks about for some women seeing their daughter’s transition from girls to women is a trigger because they compare the daughters young bodies to their own and the unlimited potential of their youth to their own lives that are filled with disappointment and resentment and lacking in opportunity

And yes I have heard the no one did that for me speech how did you know about that speech and the psychic and emotional damage

The truth is my parents were not that supportive of me so part of my desire as a father is to do that for my kids I have never said what you said but have thought it is that not what a parent is supposed to do

There was of course total attention on her before there were kids And then babies came and I felt her total attention was on them and I was okay with that because I thought that was the way it was supposed to be

Yes I felt I was de prioritized and in hindsight shifted my attention to my career and the children which I feel was my biggest contribution to the breakdown of the M where she eventually felt I paid no attention to her and no longer valued and cherished her

There was no outright hostility on either of our parts and mistakenly I thought this was just a natural evolution and did not expect or work for anything more as we were the so called happy and social couple with happy children and lots of friends and the center of our social circle and so of course was just another blindsided LBS at BD

Thank you butterfly for giving me a lot to think about


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
This all kind of hit me like a bolt too. My H has totally abandoned our S13, way more than with D9, and I was always thinking it was because D9 was somehow less threatening. I also always remembered that when D9 was a baby, and just the sweetest light, H always said, "She's going to save us all."

But this makes so much more sense -- my H was decimated by his parents, and his mom didn't protect him from the intense abuse of his father -- e.g., when he locked him in the basement at age 6 for having a friend over after school (he was a latchkey kid and was not supposed to have anyone there), his mom allowed it. When his father beat him, his mom allowed it. When his father said he was "rotten to the core," half of her believed it, and even told me that after BD to explain his behavior.

So it makes so much sense that he can't bear to be around my son for the most part, and often expresses his jealousy. I am the mom H wanted! But he hates me for it! I even remember once saying during an argument that I would not let him treat S the way his father treated him, that even if his mom allowed that, I never would. He was SO ENRAGED, moreso than the usual MLC rage. It all makes sense now.

We live in a small apartment but I made a small bedroom for my son the last few years using this small open area that my H used briefly as an office but then did not use for two years or more. My H was so angry that my son got that space, it was so weird as he wanted it left empty just in case he ever wanted to use it but didn't want his S, who was entering his teens, to have his own little room (or for the two kids of different genders to not share a room anymore) -- and believe me, we are talking about a tiny space for my S's room. And this year when I turned the curtain into a wall so that S could have more privacy, it caused a HUGE fight and my H punished me for months with his coldness and refusal to help me even just with some screws or wood cuts that I couldn't do. The whole house is still upside down from it.

And, as you know already from my thread, I am sure, my H is always trying to get me to sell our house so he can live on "his half" and also constantly demands money that he says is his right since I keep him from what is his. But recently he said something about how I was holding on to the house for the kids and not even letting him have any of it -- he said it in this really whining way, like a child who wanted to cry. Keep in mind, he lives here and has not given me a penny towards household expenses or child support or food or anything since before BD, so obviously he is not seeing this as a responsible adult would. But it really struck me at the time how strange it was and how childish even his tone of voice was.

H's weird jealous perspective makes so much more sense with bttrfly's interpretation and Gordie's confirmation!

Last edited by Gerda; 07/24/18 02:29 PM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 303
Likes: 7
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 303
Likes: 7
Wow! Gordie, Once again I came to show support and ended up gaining insight and support from your thread instead.

I also have a W that didn't get proper attention and affection growing up. And what you describe as your marital progression, Gordie, sounds very similar to my own.

"There was of course total attention on her before there were kids And then babies came and I felt her total attention was on them and I was okay with that because I thought that was the way it was supposed to be

Yes I felt I was deprioritized and in hindsight shifted my attention to my career and the children which I feel was my biggest contribution to the breakdown of the M where she eventually felt I paid no attention to her and no longer valued and cherished her"

I know I didn't quote you the right way, but so much this ^^.

That plays perfectly in line with the only complaint my W has given since BD, that we grew apart over time as we focused on the kids. There was not enough focus on us as a couple. I've had a hard time understanding how THAT could be the deal-breaker. I know that it happened, but to me that is something that we could have easily fixed just by spending some more time together...because hey, its something that we both want and we love each other. To view it as more of possible jealousy due to me being more of the kind of parent that she would have wanted, and the fact that my focus was on her before the kids but shifted after...all makes more sense. That and I felt like you Gordie, that her focus was all on the kids. I didn't like it but understood it, but it also caused me to pull back and focus on me and the kids more.

Thank you Gordie for paving the way for my understanding. I'm following in your wake and snatching up all the insight being provided to you. You have my support, just wish I had advice to go along with it. Instead I offer humble gratitude.

#goteamgordie


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
Originally Posted by Gordie

And yes I have heard the no one did that for me speech how did you know about that speech and the psychic and emotional damage


I know about it because I've heard it, repeatedly. and the psychic and emotional damage ... I lived with his for 26 years ... I'm also dealing with the psychic and emotional damage inflicted intentionally by a vindictive, angry, broken man-child.

Originally Posted by gordie

There was of course total attention on her before there were kids And then babies came and I felt her total attention was on them and I was okay with that because I thought that was the way it was supposed to be

Yes I felt I was de prioritized and in hindsight shifted my attention to my career and the children which I feel was my biggest contribution to the breakdown of the M where she eventually felt I paid no attention to her and no longer valued and cherished her


Well, I treated my exh like a rock star, then we had our son. We both put him ahead of each other. It hurt me at times, but I also thought that was the natural progression. For regular people, that IS a natural progression - by regular people I mean people who are mature - who have the ability to see that everything is fluid - at some point the kids grow up, leave home and then it's the couple again.

Originally Posted by Gordie


Thank you butterfly for giving me a lot to think about
You're welcome. I hope it helps you breathe easier.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 33
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 33
Ah dear Gordie. I'm still lying low and can't post about my situation but I follow you guys every day. I'm guessing that the big scary stuff is winding down and now you are able to pop your head out a bit and check out this new landscape in which you find yourself. In most instances I find going with my gut takes me to good places and making decisions out of fear takes me to bad ones. What feels good today, may not tomorrow. Keep the expectations to a minimum and play it by ear.

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
OwnIt,

Go out there and change your member name and begin again...just don't drop too many hints about your situation. TMI tends to give people away around here...keep your posts to generic stuff for a while.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,654
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,654
Gordie,

I could say so much to you. Your situation and comments trigger many responses in me.unfortunately I do not have the time to write much.

Recently many people are pointing out that your W isn't fully in your M. Until she is, there can be no certainty about her future intentions or actions. She cannot be counted on, hence the no expectations guideline.

I know many including myself warned what limbo could occur if you backed off your moving out plans. I am sorry that that is the case. However only you can know if that was the best move. It might still be but it has lifted s certain discomfort from your W's viewpoint and that comfort could really slow down the process.

But you have daily opportunities to plant seeds and reconnect. That is an advantage over many here. But as Cadet would point out you cannot connect with someone that doesn't want to. So don't chase that. Use opportunities as they arise but don't dwell on making it happen.

Lastly I will say that the M you have at the moment isn't a fulfilling situation for either of ye. If a day comes that you decide that you no longer want to live that way, you can decide not to. That doesn't necessarily mean stopping standing.

You have a lot of good supporters on team gordie. I am glad for you. Listen to them and take away what is right for you. No one else has to walk in your shoes. But I would urge you to embrace life even fuller.

My twopence worth on your recent question is that I would have done something small and simple for the birthday on the lines of as if she was a good friend and I would have let slide the anniversary.

An.important ingredient of a healthy M are shared interests and doing stuff together. Remember that but don't bend over backwards to do what she wants unless it suits you too.

Best wishes mate


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112

Last edited by job; 08/02/18 09:52 PM. Reason: add link to new thread

Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Page 10 of 10 1 2 8 9 10

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard