To hope or not to hope, that is the question

[AndrewP]

Equanimity - I actually had a smile as I read your rant. It was healthy and probably good for you. Job is correct though - this is a public forum and we need to be moderate. If it's any consolation I believe that I am personally responsible for 3 of the permanent "sticky" posts reminding people about appropriate behaviour.

I just took a break from my ironing to let you know that what you are experiencing and feeling is sadly quite normal. A person like your spouse acts like a toddler right now. Me Me Me and yes, does go into a rage when you steal his blankie. He's angry because everything isn't going his way and you're not acting according to his script. He responds to this lack of control with anger and threats. He is also probably actively re-writing history to justify to his actions to himself and others.

Will he change? Only time will tell. But this level of anger is very likely temporary but may last until all the legal stuff is sorted out. Sadly, you will very likely have to go through the whole divorce thing. Will he turn back towards you when he inevitably finds out that everything isn't all rosy in Princess Fairy Land? There's no way of knowing.

My suggestion for you, for a variety of reasons, is to do your best to be the calm, rational person. There is nothing beyond some temporary satisfaction to be gained by upping the conflict level. For me, I did my best to be the calm rational one - or as I like to describe it, boring and reliable. I ended up getting a reasonable settlement I think in part because I didn't rock the boat. But that doesn't mean that you need to let him roll over you. I like to use imagery a lot. Imagine yourself as a rock. Solid, stationary, predictable and reliable. Let the waves break over you and do your best to be unmoved. As little contact as possible is your best action right now. Each contact gives him an opportunity to blame / rage and can cause you fresh hurt.

Perhaps in time, when he finds out that FairyLand promises are made of dust he will remember solid, reliable you. Perhaps that might happen in my own case. We are horrible at predicting the future and also pretty bad at remembering the past so we can't know.

Good luck and please be kind to yourself. You are doing the best you can in very difficult circumstances.

Back to my ironing now.

[job]

You needed to rant and throw your hands up because it is a very normal reaction to what you are dealing with. Trust me when I say that I was absolutely no saint when I discovered what my xh had done. Coming here to rant is the safest place because we all have and some are still going down the same path you are traveling.

We all have had our hands smacked here, whether it is because of a rude comment, profanity, sharing of personal address or trying to be sneaky and drop hints as to how to locate someone on the net...but the bottom line is that we have to be mindful of others and we all do understand where you are coming from. So, please don't give my little smack on the hand a second thought. We all slip up from time to time and that's called being human.

Your h is a 2 year old trying to teethe. He wants to stand and walk on his own, but wants mommy right there in his sight too. So, what do you do? Give him plenty of space to stumble and fall and learn right from wrong. While he's doing that...you take care of yourself.

As for changing or being a better person when the crisis is over? No one can answer that right now. It's too soon to tell and some come out okay and better people, others come out okay, but retain some of the traits they picked up along the way and others...well, let's just say...they are stuck and become angry and bitter people to the end of time.

Andrew has given you some solid advice. Be kind to yourself, give yourself permission to cry and rant all you want. Come here, to this safe place, to talk and rant away. People in the real world will not understand what you are experiencing because they haven't walked in your shoes. Gather all of the info you can on what you are entitled to and do not share any of this info w/him. This is your info to help you.

Above all else...BREATHE!

[Equanim]

Hi everyone,

I'm still here and I feel even more broken.

I just don't want him to go. Even after everything. I just want him to work on the M with me.

He's offered my mum to pay for things for a while for me. He even had a tear in his eye.


Tell me - has anyone's relationship come back from this death after the WAS has broken up, slept with someone else, lied about it, lied to family, threated the LBS not to reveal anything, tell the LBS that it was over a long tme ago, there is no hope, he's the wrong person for me, there are too many scars, doesn't think I can change or get over things, protects they new love's identity and their privacy fiercely.

I know there is some guilt. Does that mean there is any connection left or just trying to appease his conscience so he can continue what he is doing?

It is so hard being alone here in the house in a rural area. Family is far away (and don't have room for me). I'm walking around the house screaming until I'm horse and punching furniture.

I have these tiny moments of hope where I hear people say here it's possible and I think of him having a tear in front of my mum and paradoxiacally asking "Is there anything I can do to make this easier on her?" (Which still means he's resolved to continue his path, but that he wants me to be ok). And his phone call to me after he broke it off but before I knew about HER where he said that he still cared for and worried about me.


So please, has anyone's relationship turned back from this far over the cliff?

I don't know whether to give up and go dark from now on (communicating only through email or a mediator), or pretending that I'm ok. I thought I could pretend I was ok today, but when I got rejected for a credit card application it through me into turmoil and I found myself reaching for him again (in private) and yelling NO.

He sounded so definite and convinced that he was making the right choice.

What do I do?

Thanks,

E

[Gordie]

E,

My w has done many of the same horrible things your H has and more. Yes, the threatening was the worst. Protecting the OM’s feelings? Yes. Acting like she is the victim and I am the perpetrator? Yes.

What should you do? I think everyone here has been saying similar things. Take your eyes off him and work on you. He is clearly not ready to work on a relationship with you at present. Maybe in the future? Who knows. In the midst of my w’s wedding planning with OM2, I gave up and started pushing for the D...and then she unexpectedly, pulled back.

So some ideas for you. Maybe get a financial counselor. Learn more about personal finance. How can you become financially indepdendent. This is for you whether or not you D or R. What about a counselor or someone with whom you can process your anger? Yes, you are justifiably angry so you’ve gotta process that in a healthy way so it doesn’t eat you from the inside out. What about something social. You sound lonely and isolated. What can you do to force yourself into new relationships. Maybe you feel you are a hot mess and can’t mKe new friends right now. I understand. But the nice things about my new friends is that they don’t know me as half of a couple. I’m just Gordie with no history and drama. That’s nice too. How about those Oscars? They never ask about my situation because they know nothing of it.

Peace. One day at a time.

[SBJ]

E, Gordie is spot on in what he is saying. What you H has said is textbook and you will see that when you read many of the situations here. Work on yourself. Detach. Get to a place where you are self sufficient. Read here and do your homework. Be the best person you can be for you and your family. You didn't break him and you cannot fix hin.

Stay strong and take it one day at a time.

[Coly23]

It does get better. I remember in the first year I cried ever single day. I couldn't eat because it felt like I had a golf ball stuck in my throat and lost a over a stone in weight. I walked around wide eyed like a deer in headlights, I either couldn't sit still or I just lay on my bed like a lump. I barely existed.

I scrambled for every breadcrumb my H dropped for me until I realised he was only satisfying his needs and not mine or my daughters. Nearly two years later I'm certainly no way out of the woods as yet but I have come a long way. It does get better you won't always feel like this but you have to go through some very dark days to finally see some light. It won't be easy but all the lovely DB community will be there for you to pick you up. For that I am eternally grateful.

I don't post much anymore because my sitch has stalled a bit but I still read all the time. I have stopped finding excuses to contact my H and he is too much of a coward to contact me in case it gives me 'hope' so that's that. I think we are having a stand off to see who breaks first! But, I feel better when I don't have any contact. I still miss him but everytime I see him I spin a bit so I am happy to stay away.

You don't have to suddenly find lots of different activities but try to keep busy even if you just read a book. Try to focus on something to occupy your mind so you don't constantly think about him. At the moment he is not worth it! Also don't beat yourself up because you still love him and want him back. His feelings have changed doesn't mean yours have and just keep posting!

[DnJ]

Hello E

You are getting awesome advice from everyone here.

You asked, What do I do?

Unfortunately financial stability is a large part of the situation the LBS finds themselves in. I am sure you have read how MLCrs can burn through money very quickly. Remember, YOUR financial stability is very important. That doesn’t mean you need to go and separate all assets and such, in some cases the LBS is better off leaving things the way they are. Seek advice, learn what your options are, and then do what you need to do to ensure that you can support yourself and you are protected, that will give you stability.

You have a great many things your dealing with and once your finances are in order that’s one less thing to stress and worry about. It felt terrible going through this with my W, but once it was done and the finances settled there was a lot less stress. It is then quite a bit easier to focus on yourself and your healing.

You said earlier that your H sounded so definite and convinced that he was making the right choice. Yes MLCrs do sound very convincing with all the rewrititen history and justification swirling around in their heads. They actually believe it. They are driven to believe it. From my viewpoint they will spend a great amount of energy and sacrifice much to ensure their fantasy stays intact.

My W’s version of reality is pretty skewed, but she absolutely believes it and protects it. I have watched my W turn on her kids, her friends, anyone who questioned her fantasy reality. It is irrational and there isn’t much one can do about it.

So, what do I do?

From all the posts and advice there are some very good things for you to do. Keep working on them and you will make progress. I did find it a bit overwhelming at the beginning when I had trouble just getting out of bed, but it turned out to be not that bad.


Equanimity I understand how broken you feel, I am only 5 months from BD and your pain, heartache, anger, and frustration reach right into me. I am literally only one week past some very very dark thoughts and those same intense feeling like yours. I didn’t think I’d ever find peace again.

So, from my viewpoint, what do I do? Do this - Believe.

You will get through this. You will get better. Believe me.

D

[Equanim]

Thanks everyone.

I still don't know how to detach and I've been working hard on that since I picked up the Divorce Remedy in Oct 2016 and I just don't know how. I think I overly attach. (An insecure attachement disorder maybe from childhood?)

I go to church. I've been visiting and reaching out to old friends. I've visited different congregations. I've got a referal for counselling. I'm listening to pod casts, walking the dogs and meditating. I was taking myself to the movies and wrote a list of all the things I wanted to do in 2018. Remember I've been DB since Novemebr 2016 and doing 180's and trying to look after myself (When I'm bad, none of these things make a dint in the pain I feel, or being able to switch off or do things).

Things took a turn in the DB area after he yelled at me a few times and went out to breakfast with a female colleague. That's where I became pleasant and but not affectionate (I was really hurting from him being angry and threatening me and kinda closed down). We started DB telephone coaching and did a few sessions but when the business went downhill and he stopped counselling, hit a slump and went into deep depression and hid behind the computer. I was doing my very best to be mysterious and busy, but I think because I didn't pursue him for a long time and wasn't physically affectionate that he slumped further. (I guess it was either him hitting major MLC or that I didn't switch things up quickly enough when it was clear that it wasn't working and he was getting worse)

He initiated separation in Sept last year after I stumbled upon him at lunch with a female that he didn't invite me to. From that point I realy upped the 180 and positivity and getting on with things. He seemed responsive for about 2.5 months (he came up and helped me with house stuff, he asked me out to an anniversary dinner, he gave me a card, he rang and updated me on work things and what he was doing with himself, he bought presents in both our names for people). It was mid December when he started to sound more removed and saying things like "You will just have to call a tradesman" and just not being as warm, it was forced.

Mid December I was visiting his half sister/step mum and quite by co-incidence he pulled up and dropped OW/HER off and then he sped away. It was the first time I noticed this and thought it was really odd that he did that (and I was hurt he didn't come in to say hello). They told me she didn't have a car and he was taking her to work and picking her up. I remember feeling very concerned about it and the timing fits with when he began to pull away further. It was one of the clues as to how I knew it was her.

It was at the point in mid Dec 2017 that he started to pull away that internally I felt desperate. I kept a lid on it, but it built as I could feel he wasn't getting better, but rather worse. I wrote my list of things to do and learn in 2018 and recruited a bunch of friends to help me achieve them. Externally I did all the right things and even didn't contact him for a week at the suggestion of the DB phone coach, to see if there was still a connection. There was - he contacted me like 7 times that week. But then I got the Tinder subscription email and well that ended it all.


And then of course after seeing him last week and learning of her, it's been downhill since. I haven't been able to do much, but get financial and legal advice as well as try and get my work up and running inbetween being hysterical and catatonic.

Right now I'm communicating with him only via email for financial things. Some part of me says that if I don't talk to him and he doesn't see me being happy and successful, or keep in inmy life at all he will never feel he could come back. But the other part says he was determined the moment I found out about Tinder to cut it off and say he was moving on in his private life. He wanted so bad to start his new life with her -out with the old and in with the new, so what's the point in talking to him?

From what I know he was already moving on with her, he just didn't have the guts to tell me and used my finding out about Tinder as the excuse to break all ties.

Thanks again.

It's hard not to talk to heaps of family and friends. I want them to know so badly how duplicitous he's been and how hurt I am and yet so I get support and yet doing that means there would be zero chance of R.

E.