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You talk of "going through the motions"

The point of DB is to CHANGE those motions.

Starting by GAL and detachment.

Last edited by Cadet; 11/07/16 06:34 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message
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Hi.

So not too much to report after the horrible weekend.

I didnt sleep well sunday, so work was a struggle as it always it these days. In the evening W called me into the MBR to tell me something funny about something the kids did. AFter that I decided to stay in the bedroom and kind of dosed off to sleep. I decided I would sleep there that night. She didnt say anything about me sleeping there. Later I seemed to have woken her up as she said you keep moving around. I said I didn't realise and then 10 minutes later she left to sleep in home theatre (where I normally sleep). Normally I would offer to move there, but decided to just let her go there.

Come the morning she comes in to get ready and I make sure I am not looking at her, as she has said before why do you stare at me when I am getting ready.

Rest of week pretty uneventful in terms of our interactions. I kept contact to a minimum in general, more texts from her about kids stuff etc that anything else.

Then tonight when we were serving the food and all kids were there, she said "Did you know that the average age for a woman to get divorced is 41.7". (shes 41.9). I said "Yeah! mid life crisis time!", pretty calmly. I said "did you read that in the book I gave you ?". She said "Yes!". The book is a free PDF I got called "Should I keep trying to work it out?". I searched the content of the book later and there is no reference to this, so she is obviously reading more about divorce or talking to someone else.

Later I went into the bedroom to talk to her about some things. We are going to the school tomorrow to talk to the school pyschologist about D14. She is doing really well at school, but at home is not very happy at all. I told W that we need to decide what to tell her, as she is bound to ask us how homelife is, in relation to D14. She said, "I dont think we need to talk about our Marriage, its not relevant". I'm likely shocked that she doesn't believe its relevant. She said "I don't think that they know anything is wrong, we have always argued anyway." I said "We used ot argue, we dont anymmore." You will all be familiar with the change in the R from arguing to silence, which MWD describes well in WAWS. So she says "well you can if you think its important, but I dont think it is relevant". I said "I am just asking that we agree what we want to say in terms of boundaries, but she should have the full picture if she is able to help jessica at all".

So she puts on TV and starts watching, this is her usual pattern and its so boring. But I just don't know if she does it because she is so sad with her life that that is all she wants to do or this is what she would do if our marriage was wonderful and she was in love with me!

Anyway, I stew for a bit and then ask "So did you learn anything else from the book then?", she does not react to the question at all. I struggle and struggle and manage to not say anything else about it. She quite happily says stuff about what is on TV etc, but no reference to what I said. A couple of times she is on her phone sending either texts or messages in WhatsApp. I stew over this, because I just keep thinking that she is becoming more distant and maybe an EA has started, although it could only be at work. I guess I am no where near in a position to ask to read what is on her phone, this would show pursuing behaviour ? I would rather know, so I can start the separation as I don't think I can hang around waiting for her to finish an affair like some of you guys have done.

Honestly I hate these feelings, when I am away from her I am focussing on me and doing GAL, I am starting to feel confident I will be OK etc, but then soon as I am in her presecence again it all starts to flood back. Before I was trying to detach/distance I would make a point of engaging with her, trying to be upbeat and interesting. We would watch TV together and she would sometimes come to cuddle me etc. Now I don't engage much with her, or watch TV with her, it feels horrible, it feels like I am closing the chapter on my marriage. I know everyone has told me before, but does keeping away and not being involve really produce results ?

I eventually got up and left the room, she was drifting off to sleep as she usually does early. She said oh arent you watching it (the tv program), I said "No" and left. As I left she said can you turn of the bedroom lights which I did.

Then I went onto the PC and did a search of all mobile nos (aka snooping), trying to see what numbers she had been contacting etc. I did this for about an hour and hated every moment of it, but I still did it. I had some plans for my evening and wasted all the time doing that instead....idiot.

I have been reading some other material as well as the DR book, and have come across alot of stuff called "sh*t tests". This is when a woman consciously or subconsciously tests you, like a temperature check I guess. They are normally things that are nasty or potentionally upsetting to you. She is doing it to see where you are. I think that the comment about age for divorce was a sh*t test from her. And I did a bit better as I didn't initially pursue, but I did eventually ask her what else she had learned from the book, which she won by not responding to at all and guess now knows I still firmly attached like a dog.

Our human relationships really like this, do people really manipulate each other to this level? I guess they do, and I guess I do as well in reality, just from a weak/pursuer point of view.

To end in a positive note, I re-joined a gym this evening on the way home from work. I have been working out of my comfort zone trying different things, done yoga classes, aikido (martial arts) and now I am going back to the gym. When I say going back to, I have gym memberships before but only used them for treadmill/cardio. I intend to start strength training/weights to build some muscle to complement my yoga and running. I will probably drop the Aikido as all though I was excited to start doing it, I injured my shoulder the last time and the class times are hard to get to regularly.

Weight lifting is so not me, but I feel that trying new things and pushing myself into them, although very uncomfortable, helps with my confidence in dealing with this marriage.


M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
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Here is a shorter version of detaching. It's a copy from a former poster. Please read it carefully, b/c you do not appear to be getting a clear picture of DB detaching.


Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and not to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Oluwa,

Sorry to hear all that you are going through.

Her comment about divorce was might have been a dig to state that she's right on track, but I'm not sure.

Her not wanting to talk to the school psych about it is likely based in shame. No one wants others to know they are "that" person, but you're correct in the psych knowing all the details if they are going to be able to help your D14.

It sounds to me that you're struggling with the "more of the same" behavior. Me too. I finally recognized that my "more of the same" behavior was being upbeat and easy to talk to and then doing the wrong kind of 180 and taking all the memories off of the wall at 5am. That's the very kind of behavior she said has been an issue in our M. (side note: I have depression and anxiety and possibly God knows what else as I flip my switch pretty easily.) This "more of the same" is what I have to stop and it sounds like you are struggling to do the same thing.

Snooping is definitely not doing YOU any favors. You will likely end up more hurt than anything. I understand the feelings of constantly wishing you knew where her head is. I feel the same, constantly. I'm always torn between wanting the hurt to end so badly that I'm willing to give her a D, to knowing what we had is worth fighting for and trying my best to DB. However, I'm giving it my all right now to just do the best DBing I can and having what little peace of mind I can in knowing that as long as I stay strong on this then she will either come around or she will let me know when she's ready to officially end the M.

Right now she seems to be trying to get me to be the one to end it. Telling me I don't deserve this or her, that I deserve better. I just agree, but tell her that my love for her isn't dependent on her actions or her love for me.

She seems to be getting more hateful, to which I can only speculate is because she wants badly to hate me and justify herself. I have chosen to do everything in my power to not give her that satisfaction. This is her 3rd marriage and she has always said that if this marriage ends it won't be her fault this time and I think it is eating her alive that wants it to end, but knows she is the only one to blame. Not to say I haven't contributed to our less than great marriage, I absolutely have, but instead of her talking to me about our issues she chose an A so that's on her.

Just hang in there if you really do want this to work. If you're tired of trying, or you're just ready to really be done, then that is okay too. However, if you are truly committed to saving your M and DBing, you must figure out how to do better or you will only continue to push her away.

Good luck to you and keep coming back to vent your feelings and get support.


Me: 35 W: 32
MR: 2y T: 3.5y
SS11
BD: 11/3/16
EA: 10/26/16
PA: 11/11/16
W asks for S/D & ILYBINILWY 11/13/16
Status: I moved out 11/19/16, GAL
I filed for D: 12/14/16
D-day: 3/10/17
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Thank you Sandi2 for the detachment post. This is part of what I struggle with as well so I'm going to print this and reference it often.

My W wants to blame me and she wants me to do things that make her feel better about her actions. I refuse to do that. She also seems to want me to make the first move as far as ending our M, I think because then she feels she can blame me, but she is not thinking about how when it is over she will still know the truth about how it all ended. I can't in good conscious move on until I know I've tried everything so she will just have to live with her actions.

Last edited by Cadet; 11/10/16 09:40 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message

Me: 35 W: 32
MR: 2y T: 3.5y
SS11
BD: 11/3/16
EA: 10/26/16
PA: 11/11/16
W asks for S/D & ILYBINILWY 11/13/16
Status: I moved out 11/19/16, GAL
I filed for D: 12/14/16
D-day: 3/10/17
Joined: Apr 2016
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Originally Posted By: Oluwa

I didnt sleep well sunday, so work was a struggle as it always it these days. In the evening W called me into the MBR to tell me something funny about something the kids did. AFter that I decided to stay in the bedroom and kind of dosed off to sleep. I decided I would sleep there that night. She didnt say anything about me sleeping there. Later I seemed to have woken her up as she said you keep moving around. I said I didn't realise and then 10 minutes later she left to sleep in home theatre (where I normally sleep). Normally I would offer to move there, but decided to just let her go there.

To me, this is strange. One of the big things about DB is consistency. If you keep rearranging where you sleep, it becomes confusing. If you want to sleep in MBR, fine. If you want to sleep in another room, fine. But pick a place and be there. Otherwise, it seems like you are playing off of her.

Originally Posted By: Oluwa
So she puts on TV and starts watching...Anyway, I stew for a bit and then ask "So did you learn anything else from the book then?", she does not react to the question at all. I struggle and struggle and manage to not say anything else about it. I stew over this, because I just keep thinking that she is becoming more distant and maybe an EA has started, although it could only be at work.

Seriously? Why would you sit and 'stew' around her? Go out and do something else!

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Oluwa Offline OP
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Hi Fightin,

Thanks for your comments I really do appreciate you taking the time to write them.

Originally Posted By: fightin
Just hang in there if you really do want this to work. If you're tired of trying, or you're just ready to really be done, then that is okay too. However, if you are truly committed to saving your M and DBing, you must figure out how to do better or you will only continue to push her away.


Thanks. I go up and down every day on what I really want to do. So much of the time, I think why should I keep hanging on, keep trying things, but then I read more of the forums or the DR book and ask myself "Have I tried everything possible?', and I know I haven't because I havent yet shown her full detachment.

I have been alot better over the weekend, as I am starting to thing how crazy I have been trying to hang on her every word and emotion for so long. I definitely did my own thing these few days.

Saturday we went out as a family to a local light show, it was a nice evening. I made no physical contact with her, I would normally try and hold hands or something, you know (in my head) the "hey! We are out with the family, so that means you're ready to stay right, lets hold hands, cause everything is better". I realise this is not what I should be doing, I am leaving all moves to her at moment.

Sunday night she told me that S12 and her were going to watch a movie and did I want to watch it. I set the movie up and she came in as it started. She lied down on my Mattress (the one I sleep on, the Home Theatre is kind of my bedroom, but kids still use it, just happens to be a mattress on the floor). I was sitting on the Sofa and she says you can come and lie down here if you like (i.e. on the mattress with her), I said "its ok, I might do later". We watched the movie and I didn't join her at all (this is unheard of). Of course, I did worry whether I should have taken the oppotunity to lie with her, but I also thought she is testing how attached I am and how quickly will I jump at the chance to be close to her.

Come Monday night she comes home from training and trys to give S12 some nasal spray we just got. As she tries to put it in his nose, I say "just let him do it", so S12 tries to grab the nasal spray and hits W hand, W lashes out and smacks S12 and S12 moves away and says "Mum are you actually crazy !!?". W starts screaming at me "Are you going to let him get away with that!", and then S12 runs out of house into front garden (its like 8pm). She then locks the door behind him. Shes then back to me "Why don't you do something, your so soft, its always me that has to discipline them." I said I was calling him to talk to him before he ran out and you locked him out.

A little bit later (S12 still outside). I said, do you think we should talk about what happened. She said "Why..what happened!". I said the way that situation was dealt with S12, do you think we should try a different way with dealing with him. She said "Oh so its my fault is that what your saying? We should just get a divorce, I can't go on, lets just look into getting a divorce!". I say "This is what you always do when I try and talk to you about difficult things."

Anyway we talked more, well I did, and I tried to explain how a different approach with the kids may work better. So if they get angry we should not get angry and remain calm to diffuse the situation. Didn't really get anywhere, but didn't expect to, but I did feel a bit better about actually raising the issue. But was resentful and frustrated that she resort to the D word again, just out of frustration and trying to shut me down. I was so tempted to say, "You keep threatening divorce, but do nothing about it, well I'm ready now as well!". But I didnt.....

Come to morning she had the day off as she was actually going to get a mamogram, as the doctor had found some lumps. When she got up she was in a good mood, just like no argument had happened yesterday. She even said to S12, why are you so sad today, oh yeah life is so hard being 12 isn't it.

I went to work and left it at that. Later in the morning she text me to say, "Hey I am running 10k today, but its too hot now, if you can get back by 6pm, we can run together". I left it for an hour or so and then replied "Yeah might do, back is still sore so might not be able to".

On the way home on train she text me again "Hey are you going to run, as if you are I will wait for you, but if not then I will go and run now". I said "Thats fine, I think I should skip it today, you go and run".

So, the rollercoaster continues. As I have been less available, she seems to have made a few approaches herself. Probably reading too much into it, especially as when I used to pursue we would have a lot of interactions, just now I don't pursue she has to do the asking to do stuff together.


M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
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Posts: 62
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Oluwa Offline OP
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Thanks Sandhi for the Detachment post.

I do need to keep reading and re-reading, it is so alien to me to not be involved with my wife and be concerned about her happiness. But I realise 'more of the same' has made no difference in 1.5 years. I have been more fun, ive dont more housework etc etc, but I had never detached. Detachment is the only way forward in my marriage, whether we repair or not, I realise I have no choice but to detach.


M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 62
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Oluwa Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: darknes
To me, this is strange. One of the big things about DB is consistency. If you keep rearranging where you sleep, it becomes confusing. If you want to sleep in MBR, fine. If you want to sleep in another room, fine. But pick a place and be there. Otherwise, it seems like you are playing off of her.


Yes I agree, we haven't formally discussed inhouse separation and to be honest we are not truly separated we cook together, wash clothes, bank accounts, everything is as it is. Just that I "mainly" sleep in the Home Theatre. I have normally been sleeping in the HT only on weekdays, so she can sleep well, but last 2/3 weeks I have been in here all 7 days. So she will have noticed that shift of me reducing the frequency of watching TV with her without a doubt. She's probably pretty happy that I am out of her face.

Quote:
Seriously? Why would you sit and 'stew' around her? Go out and do something else!


Yep! Fully aware of this!I get my mind in a funk and sit there mulling over how I can salvage the sitch, i.e. get her to answer my question, or make me feel better about the sitch. It makes no sense I know and shows her further weakness. But its still a hard habit to break after so many years. I haven't given up yet, but it is very tough to change.

Last edited by Cadet; 11/15/16 07:06 AM. Reason: fix quote

M 46 W 41
MR 17 T 18
S12 D14 S17

03/15 : ILYBINILWY
10/15 : IDLYA
01/16 : "I'm sacrificing to stay in the marriage for the kids!"
10/16 : She discusses Seperation
BUT...she's still here..for now
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Please start a new thread
You are well over 100 posts and the next post will cause this thread to lock

New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2716174#Post2716174

Last edited by Cadet; 11/15/16 07:29 AM. Reason: Link

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