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SmithyC Offline OP
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ForGump - I haven't put much thought into boundaries scenario A/B. But, if I have to think about it, I would let W know that it's unacceptable and that an in-house S would not be acceptable in this current state. This is also for me, because I would need to go dimmer and detach even further, for my own self. This is all hypothetical and I hope never to be in this situation.

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Forgump,
I am not a fan of snooping.
It is something that can be addictive and destructive
However, I do believe that early on in a situation is something that needs to be done to find out the truth.
Because if there is one absolute things that WW's have in common is lying
They lie plain and simple. It's not something you can just ask them
They will not just admit an OM

I think once you have enough evidence to rather there is one or not then that's when it needs to stop


M 37 W 30
S 7
Together 10 years
Married 9 years
BD: 12/12/12(W filed same day)
I moved to apartment 1/11/13
W and S moved to MIL 1/11/13
Peicing: 6/3/13
Reconciled: 7/2013
BD2: 4/20/16
still working on it
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Originally Posted By: ForGump
SmythyC -- you, Natus and cbtdad all appear to support snooping. But I'd like to ask you, what difference would that make? Consider the possibilities:

a) Your W is having a physical affair.
b) Your W is having an emotional affair.
c) Your W is fantasizing about a satisfying affair or a dating life.

How is her heart & mind different with regards to you as a husband? What would you do differently?

Not being argumentative. Just trying to think things through myself.


Its not so much i support snooping but i want to know the truth. My W never offered any so i had to find out myself.


Me31 W31 M11yrs S6yrs
23Mar16-BD
9Apr16-W admitted EA w boss.
27Jun16-W Changed job and promised NC w OM.
14Jul16-Continued contact w OM.Start of Separation.
24May17-Divorced.
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SmithyC Offline OP
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This morning I woke up and got ready to go on my week long trip. I know I shouldn't be looking for every sign, but after I took my shower and getting ready, I noticed my wife taking her clothes off and jumping in the shower. Two months ago my wife would not of done this and felt uncomfortable to change in front of me. Nothing major her back was to me and she jumped into the shower. I of course got out of the bathroom and closed the door because that was my 180, what I wanted was to just linger and make an excuse to take a peak frown Also, that morning, W told me that she may have to work in Oct for Saturday early mornings because of the busy time for her job, this is first time she described a future schedule with me that would involve my availability. This would be difficult to manage if we were S in different locations. Lastly, when I was leaving she asked why car was still in garage and I told her I was a planning to Uber to airport. She asked why did I not ask her, I told her I did not what to inconvenience her (another 180). I then told her I'll wait downstairs for the Uber. My typical reaction would be to want a hug (her initiation) and wish her a good week. My 180 was just to leave. Unfortunately, I had to make a quick run upstairs to get my cash and she said bye and I did the same.

I'm doing what I need to do in terms of DB/DR, but I'm not sure any of it actually resonates with W. However, the act of detachment while extremely difficult is something I need to do as it will save me if things go bad. Going to be away for a week and not planning to initiate any contact, but will respond if she does. I hope with having the kids all week and me not being there this may cause some sort of subconscious missed feeling for me or for the family unit.

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Yeah, for me W undressing in front of me would have felt like a sign from the Gods !!!

I'm happy for you but ... obviously be super careful getting your hopes up...


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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SmithyC,
Great job on handling this mornings events. Great start to going dim while you are on your trip. Like we've discussed there are a lot of similarities in our sitches
I think you being there for her and communicating is a very good thing, at the same time not smothering her or coming across as trying to control is huge.
I think you have peaked her interest. To me this is what happened in my first sitch.
She started noticing changes so she started to second guess the whole thing.
Remember you have no control over what she does or what she decides in the end
That's why it so important to detach and become the best SmithyC you can be for you
I think your 180's are very important right now
Keep it up


M 37 W 30
S 7
Together 10 years
Married 9 years
BD: 12/12/12(W filed same day)
I moved to apartment 1/11/13
W and S moved to MIL 1/11/13
Peicing: 6/3/13
Reconciled: 7/2013
BD2: 4/20/16
still working on it
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SmithyC Offline OP
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ForGump - thanks for kind words.

I shouldn't read much into these things. W needed to take a shower and I was in the bathroom. The other bathroom she normally used was being occupied. However, 2 months ago I feel she would of waited for me to leave before undressing or at least been much more discreet about undressing, because she knows in her heart I'm still very attractive to her.

She mentioned to me a few weeks ago, that she has no changes in wanting out of MR or loving me; however, she did day say she felt positive about MR "bit by bit". As Cadet stated in his post to everyone, my W has given me the gift of time, I need her to do what I need to do and create positive feelings bit by bit and maybe one day something good will happen.

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SmithyC Offline OP
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cbtdad - I really appreciate your feedback as I agree we have sitch's that similar. Your insights are very valuable to me.

I agree detaching, 180 and GAL will be key. But, ultimately, it will make me a better individual and more prepared for any outcome.

Question for you: In you first sitch did your wife drop the ILYBNILWY and don't think I ever will be bomb? Just curious as my W has said this to me now in multiple occasions and I would like to know if eventually in your sitch your W walked back that statement.

Thanks,
SmithyB

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SmithyC Offline OP
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Hi - First, sorry this is going to be a long update. It's been a while since I last posted more than a month ago. I've never left this board, in fact I've been reading other people's sitchs quite regularly, but most of the time personally depressed to share my own journey.

I want to state clearly that my wife is a WAW due to a lot of bad choices I made in how I treated my W. This is important because, I chose to not treat her as a WW even though she showed some traits as a WW w/o a OM. At the end, my sitch was different and less complicated (if that's possible) because she was a WAW and not a WW.

In my last updates I noted some positive signs (me mind reading my W's actions). However, in the past month there have been some good moments, but unfortunately a lot more bad moments. The good: she has stated many times she has noticed my positive changes (in one time stated I did a 180), my going out and getting balance with my life, and becoming even a better father. The bad signs were her telling me multiples times she doesn't want to be in this marriage, the broad stroke of rewriting of our history on what a monster I was for the entire length of our marriage, the reminders to me that she wants to physically separate rather than doing this leaving the weekend process, and just in my opinion the selfishness of her behavior. I understand my W's intent in making me the "ultimate bad guy" is a way for her to rationalize/justify her behavior towards me.

However, over the past month, I have been sincerely DB'ing to the best of my abilities. 180's in doing thing that are different, not pursuing and giving her space, being positive, not talking about the MR (unless W initiates it), and trying to GAL. Interestingly, my W got quite irritated at my on my GAL as she thought it was selfish to take all the weeknights (I avg 2-3)and on top of it I wouldn't tell her where I was going. W argued to me that I was cake-eating, by going out at nights and not taking care of the kids at night. At that time, I was doing more than 50% of the household responsibilities as well being the main financial contributor, I was a bit amused at the cake-eating reference.

About a week ago, I started to research Retrouvaille and went against the 37 rules and asked W to attend a certain weekend. W response was "I'll think about it", which is typically her way of politely saying "no". I again brought Retro w/W the following morning and the benefits of this program and even offered her more freedom in our hybrid-separation, meaning more weekends for her. W response was that she had a girls' outing and her work schedule would not allow it. I asked her directly if her girls' night was more important than an attempt to save our marriage and our family. W denies it but what i heard over the phone was "yes" as this was event was planned a month in advance and that she needed balance in her life.

I'm not sure how exactly to describe it but after that call something triggered in my head as I was done with all of this, and I questioned why would I want to be with someone that didn't even want to make any effort. I'm not claiming in any degree that I was completely emotionally detached from my W, but a part of me was so appalled by what she said that I knew I didn't want to go on with the M under these circumstances. In a rationale matter, I wrote to my W a detailed list (again not the 37 rules) of what I have done for the past 4 months to save our M/family and asked her to tell me anything she may have done, expressed to her that my priorities were different than hers (namely the importance of her girls night and job over M/Family), and that I was done and was going to leave home for a period of time.

When W came home, she talked to my about my letter and my intention to leave, and very angrily told me I couldn't leave mainly because it wasn't enough time for her and the consequences she faced. In a very calm voice I told her "what do you think a S looks like" and "I'm leaving". W threaten me with legal actions and said that she was going to leave, my response was go-ahead, because if you leave or not and when you come back then I will leave. At this point, W was crying as to how unfair I was to her. I used this opportunity to describe all the hurt I was going through for the past few months, by her rewriting our history, her description of me, her threats to physically S, telling me I don't want to be M, and her selfish behavior. I could see in real time that the facade or the fantasy world that my W had concocted in her head started to crumble and that reality started to come back to her, and I could honestly tell that she was scared about what was about to happen. W asked me if we could compromise. I gave her 10 conditions not to reconcile but attempt to try to get to a point of reconciling. W agreed to all 10 conditions for the most part and I also agreed to give her away time for 1.5 days every two weeks for her to still have her space. W admitted to me at the end of the conversation that she did not mean that her girls night was more important than our M or family, it was that she was scared and did not want to bring up the hurt she's feeling. I validated her feelings, and thanked her for now making an attempt.

Over the past few days, I saw a version of my old W, as she was actually trying to talk to me. W described to me that she wants to get back and have a loving feeling (which is not there). She also asked if I thought her leaving every other weekend was selfish. At first, I gave her a neutral answer, but I called her when she was actually away and told her how I really felt. I told her I think its selfish and makes me believe you're not 100% committed to trying and I'm telling you this not for you to stop leaving on the weekend which we agreed too, but to let you know honestly how I really feel about it; so, that I won't bottle it in and resent you. W appreciated my honestly and told me she wants the space because our house triggers some bad memories for her and its a process for her. In this conversation she told me she wants to get back where we were and that she's taking baby steps, and that she's looking forward to Retro.

Everything about DBing is true to the value for oneself and doing the rules as it works for you is imminently important. While I wasn't detached, in my heart and head, I was strong enough to physically leave my M and believed I could handle the consequences. Also, until my W actually started to understand the reality of what a real S or even a D is when her mind/emotions started to get back to some level of rationality. It wasn't this world where I was her live-in baby sitter, house keeper, bill payer and someone that was always waiting for her. I took my control back from my W. If I didn't pressed I know for a fact there would of been no motivation for my W to change and she could enjoy the status quo which completely benefited her. I want to make it clear that I'm not saying any of this with a level of self-satisfaction, because I know what I did and the damage I cause to my W. In the end, I feel like I personally deserved the pain I had to endure to even understand the pain I caused my W.

I'm not sure if I'm piecing with my W, but if feels I'm in a better position than I was a week/moth ago with my W. And, I feel she sincerely wants to try, with now moving in the same room, date nights, openly communicating, and Retro next month. I'm going to continue to do the work and pray that my MR is eventually healed.

I can't thank this community enough. While I wasn't an active participant and not have gone through the level of struggles that many of you are and have gone through. I have learned so much about my sitch, how best to navigate, and most importantly how I need to be better for myself.

Thank you all. I hope to provide updates, hopefully with more positive news.

God Bless

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