Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
Dude, we hear you, we all do, and all of us know exactly how you are feeling. I know that sounds impossible to you, but we really do. We have all been there.

You must trust me, when I say it will get better, but snooping will tear you apart. So stop it.

Your wife might say she will think about it, she won't. Don't try to make sense of it, you can't. You cannot reason with her, you cannot make see your side of story, so stop. You cannot nice her back, there is nothing you can say or do that will drive her back to you. Not one damned thing. So STOP!!!

You matter, focus on yourself, grow, find the Barry that Barry always wanted to be. Go out, get busy, go meet people, take some classes.

Dude, I am sorry to say, but in 95% of the cases there is another person somewhere. Just be prepared for it, so it does not bomb you again.

And no, you cannot do a damned thing about it! Even if you beat up the other guy, what would it help, you'd get arrested and the other guy would still be in the picture.

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,227
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,227
Hi Barry. You have to take this for what it is. Your are all over the place emotionally. Your best friend and partner has told you she no longer wants to be with you. Your whole foundation has been rocked to the core. You realise that your actions were not the norm to say the least ! Please don't beat yourself up , we have all done stuff like this but it's done now so just move on. This episode is in the past. As others have said you have no control over your W. You are the last person she will seek advice from and the last person she needs to hear from now.

Please try to keep your kids out of any snooping or trying to get them to influence W. My W adores her kids yet she left and lives elsewhere now. I can promise you that I would have bet my life on that never happening All my kids have lost a lot of respect for W and she cries daily abiout them. She still went

If you follow the vets advice , you will start to heal and move on with your life It will take time but it will happen My non vet advice is to accept that W is gone for now she may come back , she may not , either way you need to heal. There is no quick fix , I wish there was.

Stay strong and learn from this Take care. Rd

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
B
Barry Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
Hi.
I know I can't control what she's doing. I'm just so drained by it all.
There's 6 people in our family, and the person who's been the glue in all our lives is wrecking everything.

Does anyone else see this as classic MLC behavior or is it just me??

None of her family, her friends (even her best friend, who as I say, is more like a sister to her) saw this coming. All I know is she went out one night, got drunk, and came home and ruined my hopes for the future, my dreams of spending my life with her, having fun, laughing, and growing old with her. She broke my heart...again. She didn't have to do this, she could have woke up the next morning and laughed it off on being drunk and emotional. If she really wanted things to be good again between us, she could have put some work into saving it. She could have spoken to me at any point leading up to this and said how she was feeling. I can't believe all this "I didn't know it was coming either" rubbish that she told me either. You don't decide to end a 22 year relationship overnight. I know there's a lot of "could've's" in all that and the fact is, she didn't so that kind of says it all.

I know that the woman I knew is gone. I think she could be gone forever.

I'm glad that other people said they'd done similar things (not glad you felt the need to of course) even if they weren't to crazy level. I just can't bear the thought of her being intimate with an OM. I'm sure we've all had it, with images of our loved ones doing things running inside our minds. How am I supposed to not think about that?? I'm trying to keep as positive and busy as I can but the thoughts persist. I can't stop obsessing over everything.

When I look at this all started, we'd seen each other on Thursday and talked a little, and we'd text'd each other on the Saturday morning which was all fine.

If I wouldn't have felt the need to go onto someone's FB page (who I'm not even friends with) looking for photos of my W, all of this could've been avoided THIS TIME. The problem isn't the photo though, not really. It's that I know she's going out looking super sexy, with all of this going on. I don't need the photo, I've enough images on my head already.

I'm my own worst enemy.

Don't get me wrong, doing all that stuff wrong in a 24 hour period is impressively bad I know, and I admit to losing the plot there. But the trouble with not checking up on her is, I DO want to know if an OM appears and she's not exactly going to tell me freely. Yes, I made my choice in moving out so she could live in our home, and I stand by it, but as I've said before, there's no way I'm paying the mortgage on her love-nest...no f****g way on earth.

I realise that this is still early days and it IS going to get worse as time goes on. I'm just going to have to try and get by day to day and not think about it.

It's killing my soul though.


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
Barry, you are among friends here. You can come here to rant, vent or just to find comfort. I know it is hard for you to understand it, but we have all been where you are at.

This being said, we will not bull$hit you and you can expect friendly 2x4s from us.

The sad truth is at this time it really does not matter if it is MLC or not that your W is battling with. Your path should be the same.

You need to detach (easier said than done, I know...), as soon as you let go of your need to know, a HUGE weight will be lifted from your shoulders. The sooner you realize this, the easier it will be for you. I hope you come to the place of detachment soon, because it will do wonders for your sanity.

Why have you moved out? That is a big nono. NEVER move out. If she has a problem, let her move out. So my suggestion is, move back in ASAP.

By now you have surey figured out, that the person you knew as your wife is gone and for all intents and purposes could as well have been kidnapped by aliens. You have to remember that that somewhere deep there is still the core of your wife...

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 374
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 374
Hey Barry

You have to stop looking at stuff. Easier said than done but you are just causing yourself more pain by doing so. I found something last week when I wasn't even snooping that kicked me in the stomach and it wasn't even that bad. I know some people on here have found sexual imagery, texts even audio. Im not sure I could stomach that. Could you? Just presume she is with OM. You don't need to know any more than that. It doesn't make a difference in what you need to do which is detach. Let go. Im still struggling as my wife just drags me back in.


As far as moving out, most say no way and I can see why. for me I have no choice as I cant afford to stay on my own. Me not being here though is the consequences she will see from her actions and as im the one who does 90% of all household jobs then this is what she will have to deal with. House is already a bomb site because ive stopped picking up after her. Add to that our D8 asking why im not here and when am I coming home, financial burden, friendship, moral support, care for D8 then it all starts adding up.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
B
Barry Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
Hi Guys

So I'm a bit calmer now (thank goodness). I met up with my S18 on Monday night for a meal, he suggested it which was a nice thought. After we had been talking for a while, I asked him if he would prefer it if I didn't speak about W or our sitch (as I've said before, out of all the kids he's the one who struggles with the whole thing). He said if I wanted to talk about it that was fine. So I gave the following speech to him on Monday, and my D15 yesterday. My D13 is coming to see me this evening so I'll be telling him the same too..my S20 is also coming later, but it's slightly different for him as he doesn't live at home.

People may not agree with what I've done and am doing here, but I'm not seeing my kids anywhere near as much as I would like to (a lot of this is just because they have busy lives) but they need to be told a few important things by me.

I started off, and reitterated several times during the conversation that I'm not trying to poison my kids against their Mum, and I'm not saying anything bad about her but I do want them all to be 100% clear on how I'm feeling about all this. I'm asking them all just to listen and talk to me, but that it is between us only, I don't want it repeated to my W who will take it all the wrong way. They don't tell me what she's saying and I am only asking for the same courtesy.

I'm telling all of my kids that I. DO. NOT. WANT. THIS. (they are already fully aware of this!) and that I love them all no matter what.
Although I've played my part (and by God I played it well) in how we got here, I am NOT the one who is giving up on our R, our M, and breaking our family up. This is not to blame her entirely, but it IS her who is giving up at the moment.

I'm telling them that I want them to come and live with me if W carries on with this plan and doesn't have a change of heart. This is NOT to make them choose between their parents, but I said that I don't want any of them think for one minute that I don't want them to. Obviously, ideally we will all live together but I'm not being naive about the fact that right now, that doesn't seem likely. I haven't gone as far as to tell them all my plans (as they aren't 100% firm yet anyway) but I'm seriously considering buying her out of our home should it come to that, rather than selling up, splitting the money and having to rent forever - I've invested too many years (and money) into my mortgage to then have to rent. It's also something for me to leave the kids in years to come.

I'm telling them that although they (maybe/possibly) think I'm crazy at the moment (with me being so emotional, on anti-depressants, attending councilling etc whilst Mum is sitting there, quite content, feeling super confident, and calling all the shots), that ultimatly, I'm the one whose living in the real world. I don't want to be 18 again, I'm happy being a Dad, a husband hopefully, and although changes need to be made to my social life for my own wellbeing, and to the way I interact with W (or another partner if it goes badly), at least I'm thinking clearly about the repurcussions of all this on my family. W is not. She is feeling as though the end justifies the means.

I'm just trying to make sure that they are aware that Mum is NOT who they think she is any more. She may be putting the washing on and cooking their dinner, but the thought process going on in her mind right now is not the same as it once was. She wants out.

I have told them that I feel that W is going to regret this one day. Yes, she may have had her tummy tuck, her boob job, her Botox, and have turned into the butterfly she wants to be, but one day, she will look back on all this and realise that she let me go needlessly, broke my heart, and gave up something good. I could be wrong there, she's just as likely to meet the man of her dreams and live happily ever after I suppose.

These are difficult things to tell your children, particularly when they are living with W. I don't want to make them keep secrets (they are doing this for W anyway), or have to choose between us but they have to be made aware that things are going to drastically change in their lives and that they DO have a choice even if they don't want to make it. I'm just trying to prepare them.

I saw my doctor yesterday and said i wasn't sure if the meds were helping. He said to stick with them and that they (obviously) won't solve the problem - they are just to take the edge off. I've been taking them in the mornings up to now but I took in at bedtime last night, slept better and have felt more in control today so I'll change to that schedule.

I was also contacted by an IC (i'd been waiting for the call), and I start that tomorrow evening.

I'm sad of course because I know that my W doesn't love me any more, maybe she will again, maybe she won't. At this stage, I'm going with won't. I'm not snooping around any more as it's just making me ill. I'm still scared to death of the day she says the word divorce, or tells me she's met someone. I'm really trying not to think or care about it, but it's sooo hard being a LBS.

I really need to get working on some 180's and PMA more than anything right now. Although I'm keeping up with my fitness regime - gym/cycling etc, the GAL is difficult due to lack of transport but there are still things I'm doing and planning for once I get a car again. Not that we are having any contact at all now so I'm not really getting the opportunity to put this into practice but I am NOT going to get upset in front of W again, and I am NOT going to talk about R unless she brings it up.

Actions, Actions, Actions!!!


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
My IC is in the business of pointing the contradictions between my actions and the way I portray them. It is quite striking to realize that things aren't as pretty as I like to think they are. I've realized I had issues that I refused to face by painting over them with language.

Your post reminded me of that. There are a lot of "but" in your post. As you know, these invalidate the statement before. Let's go through a few of them.

I'm not trying to poison my kids against their Mum, and I'm not saying anything bad about her but... BUT you say she's not living in reality, that she wants to be 18 again, she thinks the end justifies the means, ridicule her desire to improve her appearance, etc.

This is not to blame her entirely, but... BUT you don't want this and you are not the one giving up on the R and M. So the S is her fault.

This is NOT to make them choose between their parents, but... BUT you're already making them think about who they'll live with, which is the same thing.

I don't want to make them keep secrets (they are doing this for W anyway), or have to choose between us but... BUT you ask them not to repeat a thing to their mom.

So in the end:
- You want your kids to keep secrets.
- You tell them bad things about their mom.
- You want them to choose between their parents.
- You blame her for the S.

I was struck by this quote from Gandhi: Actions express priorities. If you don't want your kids to keep secrets, don't tell them any. If you don't want to say anything bad about their mom, then don't. Another solution is to admit that you want and do all of this. Simply realize what you're really doing. But you can't have it both ways. It's not helping you, nor your sitch.

You're a very sensitive man. There are many of us on these boards. You're going through the roughest period. Part of what's going to make it hard will be to reconcile your perception of who you are with who you really are. The "but" and "I'm just" are ways to cover what you're really trying to do.

I'm glad you're about to see an IC. I'm sure you'll be telling him all of your back story at this first meeting, but try early on to ask him about his approach to psychotherapy. There are a few schools, some of which are more practical and others more analytical. Hard to see which would be a good fit, but in general it's good to know what you're getting and what are the alternatives.

How are you doing on DR and NMMNG?


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
B
Barry Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
Hi all, not checked in for a couple of days.

Thanks Mozza. I don't 100% agree with your take on my post...however I can see what you're saying. It really isn't my intention to speak ill of my W, turn the kids against her, ridicule her, or blame her for the S. The reason I asked the kids to keep the conversation to themselves is that it will antagonise the sitch if they said it to her...I know how it sounds.
I didn't say it to them in the harsh manner that it's been portrayed in your post.

To pick up on a couple of your comments that you think are harsh on my W, but which I think are acceptable to say..

The "reality" of things is that there IS a way for my W to have her independance whilst also NOT destroying her R of 22 years, she only need talk to me about it so we can find and hopefully agree on a solution.

She DOES want to be 18 again. She is wanting to revert to a younger version of herself physically and mentally. I didn't ridicule her desire to improve her appearence, what I told the kids was that I understood WHY she wants to do that, there just isn't the best part of £10,000 of disposable cash to do that. If this goes badly for our M, the money would be suddenly there. As I said, it's not that I think this is at the forefront of W's mind, it maybe more a sub-concious thought.
It may not be in her thoughts at all...I was, and am mind-reading here.

The S is NOT her fault entirely. Yes, she instigated it and I had to go along with it as it was going to happen anyway. How we got to this stage is as much my fault (maybe more so?) than hers and I have told the kids that. It's true that I'm not the one giving up, she is.
This isn't to paint her in a bad light, just to show them that I think that a R is worth fighting for rather than throwing the towel in because you don't "feel it" any more.

I don't want them to have to choose between their parents at all. Not now, not ever. I want us to be a family again. However, in the current sitch, that looks unlikely. I don't want any of them thinking that I don't want to live with them - particularly because I moved out and am now the one not in the family unit. They understand why I did that, and they know that I'm not happy about it purely because I don't get to see them much. I miss them all, including my W.

All that being said, I do say "but", and "I'm just" a lot. I do see how it comes across in my communication, not necessarily here but in the "real world" too. The way I have communicated to my W has been a real problem for a while now. I'm really only starting to realise the effects of it now...now that it may be too late to change.

I had my session with my IC yesterday. She seems nice enough. It's in her home and is a comfortable setting. Obviously, as it was the first session, she wanted to know what had brought me to her so I went through my story from the beggining. As it was time limited, it forced me to not get hung up on some of the smaller details and I established a quite accurate account (from my perspective) of things over the last 2 years. She asked me what it was I hoping to get out of my sessions? I said that I'm hoping for practical solutions to change my behaviour so that I feel better about myself, am able to communicate better, and don't feel so depressed all the time. Ultimatly, I want to R with my W so anything that can help me prepare for that, or indeed help me cope with the devastation should that not happen, I will find helpful.

I've now finished DB (I re-read it and highlighted lots of parts as I'm sure many here have done). I found much of it makes so much sense, and that I've been doing so many things wrong - both lately and throughout my M. I wish I'd have read it years ago.
I have DR and NMMNG on order and will get started on them as soon as possible.

I've removed all social media apps from my phone, WhatsApp, FB, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram (my kids are on all these!) really so the temptation to snoop can't be acted on so easily. It really isn't helping me in detaching as last weekend's fiasco proved. Any of my close friends wouldn't contact me on those platforms anyway so I'm not missing out on any GAL activities. I haven't been to the house since last weekend apart from to get some post.

Had a small amount of text contact with W over the last couple of days about kids, finances etc. I know it's pursuit but I did ask her to think about an evening out with me. Not to talk about our R, for me to get upset, or to re-hash over all the things we have already said. I'm aware that it'll be difficult but I just want to take a baby step in having a meal, going bowling, ice skating, anything she wants to do so that we can get together and hopefully have a laugh or two without feeling the pressure of having to discuss anything. I've been terrible for this up to now. I've found it hard not to talk about the M, or not to get upset. I know I can't do this any more if there is to be ANY chance of us starting something new.

She said she didn't know, she would think about it and let me know....at least it wasn't a flat out no! I've left the ball in her court.

I'm out for a meal with D15 and her boyfriend tonight (never did meet up for that coffee from last week). I've booked a nice restaurant locally which we can walk to. No major plans for the weekend apart from visiting the gym. I will be making lists this weekend of what worked when we got on, and what didn't, 180's, and generally preparing myself for the start of a new stage in this sitch. The start of me doing what I should be (DB'ing) instead of me doing more of the same!

I just hope it's not too late.

Barry.


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,148
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,148
Barry,

Here are some 2 X 4's across the head for you.

1. You are dragging your kids into this. Making your son lie to you wife while you snoop on the home computer and spy in her bedroom? Come on dude. Asking your kids to live with you? You shouldn't of moved out in the first place. Your wife started this mess, you walked out of the family home and now you want your kids to scramble and make up for YOUR absence. Your wife should have moved out and then her actions would have spoken for themselves. No you are trying to turn your kids against your wife for YOU moving out? Please stop this.

2. If you keep falling apart like this emotionally, your kids will want to live with your wife, who SEEMINGLY is acting like the stronger, clearer, self-confident, parent.

3. You have given ALL the power to your wife by begging, pleading and humiliating yourself in trying to get her back into the marriage. You are not very attractive right now. STOP pursuing her. It's pathetic and turning her off.

4. By chasing your wife you are not giving her the opportunity to miss you or conceive of a life without you. She wants her space right now, give it to her. By constantly trying to pull her back into the marriage, she is only going to feel smothered and will want to pull away more.

5. You wife is going to cheat on you, if not tomorrow, but very soon. Accept that fact. Her desire to look better and go out at night and take salacious selfies means she's going to want male attention. She'll get it, and she will have sex with someone else. You keep talking like that's the point of no return where you will really start to man up.(I won't pay the mortgage for her to shag someone use our house as her love-den) Start manning up now. She's going to cheat. It's almost a given.


7. It's never too late. Marriages recover after worse things. However, you current path of behavior is almost a guarantee for failure.

Now, some encouragement:

1. I've been there, too and made virtually all the same mistakes.

2. You do have the moral high ground.

3. You are a great guy. Go find that guy. Find your warrior self.

4. The more you focus on enjoying your own life (however impossible that sounds), the easier this will get, regardless of the outcome.

5. It's almost impossible not to want a certain outcome and be obsessed by your wife's every move and action.

--Theoden


Last edited by Cristy; 02/18/15 10:08 PM. Reason: per forum agreement, do not mention other books, authors or websites



Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
B
Barry Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
Hi Theoden

I must have missed this post (I started a new thread with a change of mindset) but funnily enough, I've actioned or come to terms with almost all of your 2x4's above. The only one I can't think about is number 5 (suprisingly enough).

I don't talk to the kids about W unless they want to, and even then I don't ask anything that would put them in any sort of position.
Me asking them to live with me was more about letting them know that I WANT to live with them but due to my decision to let W live at home, that wasn't possible at the moment.
I understand your position on me moving out, it mirrors many other peoples views too. Ultimatly, I went with what I thought was best and stand by my decision.

I still have all the emotions of course, but they are only shown to a couple of close friends (who W doesn't know) and on this forum. I've really turned a corner in the last two weeks.

The pursuit, begging, crying, pleading and spying has stopped entirely. I'm only concentrating on myself and my kids.

It's not that I disagree with No.5, in fact it's because I know it to be true that I can't think about it. Whilst it isn't the case that she is with an OM (albeit that I know of), I have a miniscule amount of hope that we can work things out. W is not thinking about R at all and she may never do. It's early days though and maybe she just needs time to walk her path. If I'm honest, I can't even say right now that it WOULD be a deal breaker (apart from the part where I pay for her love nest) - that's how unsure I am about it.
I guess when it happens, I'll know.

I like No.7 - I've changed my path, but whether or not my M can recover is yet to be seen. W is on a different path at the moment. Maybe we will R, maybe we wont but I'll be stronger no matter what the outcome.

Barry.


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Page 7 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard