Jim0987 #5 - working on cat like readiness

[Vanilla]

Jim
I was concerned about you, as you had not posted. The members of the board are here to give you the support you need. To help you plan your responses, to give you feedback, breathing space.

My friend you are still saying too much. W is in a very wilful place and has very wayward behaviour. This is NOT your responsibility nor did you cause this. Just as I am not responsible for my H going gambling (you told me that was the case), so you are not in any way responsible for W. No matter how hard she tries to shift this to blame you. Nothing you say will make any difference so please shut up. Shrug your shoulders, say as you please W, that isn't my view. This isn't helping me. stop. Walk away don't respond.

Ok you list your responsibilities and you are working on those, however
W is behaving in a wayward, hurtful way towards her family. It is no wonder she can't and wont look at you.

Those two precious bundles need their dad to be stable and loving. Do not blame Jim for W behaviour.

If you are struggling come to the board to get help. That's what we do for each other.
Vanilla

[GoatGal]

Jim.

Time for a big old 2 x 4.

STFU.

Seriously, man. It's like you're not listening to a word we've been saying to you.

Nothing you SAY is going to change this for you, so stop talking with her about it!!!!! (Yes, I mean all those exclamation points!!!!)

You're digging yourself deeper and deeper with all your heart-to-hearts and apologies for---that time when her dad died? Still?

Enough! Clearly she knows she can bring this up and you fall all over yourself trying to make it better. It's one of your buttons.

Please--for your own sake. STOP LETTING HER PUSH THOSE BUTTONS OF YOURS! Figure out what they are and have a plan to thwart her efforts.

It doesn't MATTER if you're having a down day, or your PMA is low, or you're distracted, hungry--whatever. Those are excuses, dude!

Maybe if I tell you that every time you open your mouth on these topics what you're really saying is:

"Wife, please divorce me because I will never be the kind of strong man you need."

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but this is essentially what you are telling her when you have these discussions.

Aren't you Brits supposed to be reserved, able to keep a stiff upper lip, cheerio-pip-pip, never wear your heart on your sleeve types?

Or is that just an American construct?

The snooping, talking, thinking too much about OM... you're heading down the wrong road my friend.

I only tell you this because I want to see you succeed.

So consider yourself "2 x 4'd"


---Your Pal,

The Goat Gal

[jim0987]

I knew the 2x4 was coming which made me hesitant to post and made me nearly leave stuff out like the bit about the phone. This is my conflict avoidance and guilt complex right there - considering hiding the truth from people trying to help me because my fear of judgement. The fact I included it is actually a big change from pre BD me. (He says clutching for a silver lining)

I really do appreciate the advice and support

I know I need to STFU.

I also need to talk practical logistics with her but somehow we always get on to R because I want her to understand and because she knows she can press my buttons and feel better about herself. She's leaving and cheating and yet all of the guilt is on me because I'm the only one who thinks the end if our M is a bad thing. She gives the impression that she doesn't think she did a single thing wrong and that she is a heroic martyr for 'putting up with it' for so long.

GoatGal your translation I think is pretty much spot on. I am just pushing her further away. Equally nothing else seems to make much difference. She has resented me for years and I don't think much I do is going to have any dent in that, not when she seems to be able to just line up other men. She now has no reason to even try.

What seems to be driving my emotions at the moment is actually a fear that I'm always going to be alone and that I've blown my one shot at happiness. my W was always way out of my league. Its one reason why OM2 has always bothered me as an individual - he is everything im not and never could be. I would always be second choice to him and I've watched women (including my W twice now) pursue him in a way that would never happen for me.

This is why I need to do so much more work on myself - so that I'm happy and confident in who I am rather than negative about who I'm not.

[GoatGal]

Jim,

First let me say that I'm proud of you for being brave enough to put it out there for us to read.
It's hard enough to share things about ourselves that we're embarrassed about, but for people who have, as you said:
"conflict avoidance and guilt complex" (that is my H, btw), it's twice as hard.

Keep in mind, the judgement is not about YOU AS A PERSON, it's only directed at YOUR ACTIONS. That's a huge difference, and a good one.

Because you can't change who you are, but you can certainly change your ACTIONS. And it's been proven through many studies that if you consistently change your actions, you can change your brain chemistry and adapt to different situations differently. It takes time and practice and determination. But it can be done.

And I am living proof.
As for the rest, there'e always the gym and a good plastic surgeon!
(Heck, that's how the ladies look at it, so why not?) But first you have to feel great about you on the inside.

No matter how you put yourself down, perhaps to beat others to the punch or lower expectations about you (?) I suspect who you are is really pretty cool.

From what I've read from you here, and the fact that this woman who is "so out of your league" actually chose YOU to marry, that says there is something great about you you're failing to see at the moment.
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Maybe you should make that list: "100 Thngs that Are Great/Unique About You".
Go ahead and pump it up shamelessly; list everything!

Are you a good pool player? Great listener? Can you keep a secret? Can you sew on a button in a flash, cook spaghetti and make your own sauce? Do you have great calves? Can you grow a mean mustache? Do you have ten great jokes? And, let's not forget--you are a "one and done". There is NO other on earth LIKE YOU.

I, for example, have a long and graceful neck. I can really play it up with chokers, and on the dance floor. And it suits me particularly well because my puny little pin head fits nicely on top without falling over! How lucky!
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Follow that with a list of the things you would like to change about yourself. Physical and emotional, financial...I think you have done some of this, but maybe do it as a Christmas gift to yourself.

List it here, then take your copy and put it away to discover down the road.
One day you'll be surprised at what has changed for the better, and how the things you didn't like about yourself mostly didn't matter much. You're going to need that someday.
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So your wife chose YOU, regardless of what shenanigans she got into down the road.

That means you have something that she really wanted and really valued. Maybe over time you changed in some ways, but I"ll wager you still have those qualities.

When you've gotten more DBing under your belt, (and withstood the dreaded 2 x 4's a few more times---which will really toughen you up! :)), well, you're going to feel a whole lot better about yourself, and women are going to respond to you more positively.

Your wife included.

I know we had the convo about my friend who was always putting himself down.
You explained what could be going on in his mind.
Which tells me that you are very aware of this tendency in yourself. That's the first step to changing it.

I know you're in therapy, and I'm proud of you for that, too.
Guys with the issues you described above (and my H) tend to avoid that because it forces them to confront the issues they'd rather ignore, and if they won't, they're wasting their money and they know it.
In my H's case, he goes about six time and when they start getting into the meat and potatoes of his problems, he quits going.
I hope this time will be different for him.

"I also need to talk practical logistics with her but somehow we always get on to R because I want her to understand..."

Jim, listen. It's not your job to make her understand where you're coming from. If she's like most wayward wives, she really doesn't care right now. Hopefully some day she will. The more you talk, the more you look weak in her eyes.

If she doesn't "understand" (What, exactly? That you're really a nice guy who is not trying to be mean? Isn't she being pretty awful to you?), that's on HER. You've stated your case over and over.

You have apologized and explained multiple times. That's enough.

"What seems to be driving my emotions at the moment is actually a fear that I'm always going to be alone and that I've blown my one shot at happiness."

The fear--I get that.
We all have it. But we have to "Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway" as they say.
But acting from a place of fear is definitely not putting your best foot forward. It's bringing out the worst in you where your W is concerned.

And that "one shot at happiness" thing? You KNOW that's a crock of manure, now, don't you?
You're only 34, man!
You are going to be better than ever down the road and you will surprise yourself with how much happiness you can have.

The secret is--YOU create it.
No one else, and no relationship can give that to you. That's something you must wrap your head around.

I am happy NOW, in my awful sitch, because I choose to be. It's that simple.

More on that another time.

Meanwhile, gotta go feed the goats...and the chickens...and the donkey....

Hang in there. Awareness is the first step and you're pretty aware right now. Good job.
Now it's on to actually doing something with that awareness.

Identify those buttons your wife knows so well and figure out how to circumvent her ability to play you like an accordion.

Your Pal,

The Goat Gal

[jim0987]

Goatgal. Thanks (as always).

Can I just ask if you found any good resources on the aspergers front? It came up at work as a possibility on my psychometric profile.

[GoatGal]

Wow... Ok.

So there is definitely something there, you think?

There are a lot of great books out there, one that springs to mind is by David Finch.
The Journal of Best Practices: A Memoir of Marriage, Asperger Syndrome, and One Man's Quest to Be a Better Husband


Sound like it was made for you.

By the way, an Asperger's diagnosis is not a terrible thing. Particularly if you have it! There is a wide range of presentation--and in women it's hard to pick up in general.

But knowing about it goes along with that "awareness" thing. You can't change it if you don't know about it.

Anyhow, that's a start. Pick up that one, as well as Feeling Good.
Both are very complimentary to DBing and will provide a lot of insight.

Also there are a lot of boards online to support people "On the Spectrum" (and btw, ADD/ADHD is also on the spectrum, that's a recent development, and no surprise to me.)

I am not allowed to list them here, but with some searching you can find adults who struggle with it. Many are pretty severe, others like myself are pretty mild, but it definitely factors into my life in such a way that I need to make some concessions and plan ahead.

Good luck!

Your Pal,

The Goat Gal

[GoatGal]

Btw--in David Finch's book, you may or may not find yourself in his descriptions, and that's fine.

I'm nowhere NEAR where he is with his sensory problems and rigid routines. However, there are some real similarities. As I said, ADHD is also on the spectrum, so you can also explore that aspect.

Not everyone has the hyperactivity part, some are very inward-directed. It's more a case of "mis-directed" attention rather than a "deficit". The tendency is to focus on EVERYTHING, and not be able to filter or prioritize as well.

As for Mr. Finch, he is a very accomplished man, didn't struggle much in school, as fits many Aspies. Usually very intelligent, but kind of missing some components that come standard in most humans off the assembly line.

Instead, we are blessed (yes, blessed) with a wealth of "non-standard options" which are oftentimes pretty darned special.
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And forget that "selfish/lack of empathy" stuff.
It's a load of crap.
Recently articles have pointed to an actual EXCESS of empathy for the feelings of other people, (taking responsibility for others' emotions--ring any bells?) that contributes to the emotional/psychic overload for people on the spectrum.

I have always been overly kind and compassionate. I don't what others consider to be "empathy" if their actions don't support that kind of caring. Many of us are exactly that way.

However, if we're too involved with our "inner world" either because we are overwhelmed or because we just like to be there, we can tune others out.

I think that's more the case and it's something we need to guard against.
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If you read the stories of lots of other people with Asperger Syndrome, you'll find it expresses itself in many ways, and that many well known, talented, successful, bright people with integrity and compassion are included among our ranks.

Then you can decide if that fits you or not.



---(G)GGG