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Mighty Offline OP
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I have a question, possibly the vets may have some insight... or anyone, for that matter??

I noticed some differences in h about 2 yrs ago. They were subtle, but were there, and now-so more evident. For example, we went to a wedding about 2 years ago (my cousins) and my husband would not leave the table and wanted me to stay with him the whole time. He did not want to socialize with anyone, even though he knew and got along with everyone. I don't always get to see everyone, but had to stay at the table with him. We left early, because he wanted to go, and my kids stayed later having fun and came back with my parents. What's that tell you, when the kids and grandparents stay later having fun?! Ok, so that was just one of a few things. A few months after that is when all the things started getting really stressful around here (some explained in my first post). We spent about 9 months just surviving and stressed. Then, my h became very angry. He began raging and snapping at me and the kids (and my mom once). It was a couple months after this which was bd. The bomb was almost exactly one year after my nephews unexpected death (husband's nephew). As I stated before, he was very close with us. We took him on vacation, he would always come and stay with us. He and my h were very close, and my h was a role model to him, kind of like a dad. Interesting- hww is a year younger then my nephew would be- ewwwwww!

OK, now here is my concern. It will now be two years in October since my nephew's death. It was a few months prior to this that I saw some changes in h. The week of the accident (he was killed by a drunk driver on his way home from work- 5PM on a Monday), just a few days after, my husband actually discussed some of his childhood issues with his dad. I was surprised he did this, but he did express to him that he was hurt by the things his dad had done to him as a child. (Examples: h caught his dad cheating- in action!, d would leave h behind to go spend time with ow, ow moved in with h & his dad- h & ow did not get along- ow called police on h when he was a kid, they went to court, judge told h's dad he had to chose between ow and h. FIL walked out of courtroom, leaving h to be sent to a boy's home. Totally abandoned him! H's mom stepped up and took h in. They did not get along. MIL verbally and physically abused h as a child. That's just a snapshot...)

H seemed to think that fil felt bad about what he had done to h as a child. H always said he knows fil feels guilty. I don't see it. FIL is still very selfish, takes advantage of his own kids at any opportunity, rips them off with money, tries to get one over, lies, he's just gross. Probably the worst human I know. After their talk, h felt better, but the relationship did not change at all. Fil would be next door at h's brother's house and would not even come see h. It happened all the time.

My concern is, I think h tried to work through that a year before bd, but he has spiraled out of control, acting like his dad now! Does this mean he will stay stuck? I am very concerned form my kids sake. Maybe h realized, since the r didn't change with them, that his dad really didn't feel bad. He addressed it, but from what I see didn't work through it because it didn't fix things? I don't know. Any insight would be helpful.

I have more questions regarding kids and h's current relationship- now that I'm getting the blame for his damage, and his accusations of me is, "It's not right." Ha, so sorry Mr. Righteous!

Mighty #2477783 08/11/14 01:22 PM
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job Offline
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Mighty,
They gradually go into MLC approximately 18-24 months before you actually get the BD. It is so gradual that you really don't pay that much attention to the changes until after things have transpired and then you can look back and see some of the changes and when they began.

From your posting, it sounds like your h was having some reflections on his past before the BD and some of them do think about the past as they begin their journey. I think he was trying to understand why he was confused about his life, etc. at that time, i.e., searching for answers and trying to understand why he felt the way that he did.

Will he remain stuck? No one knows because it is all up to him to face and deal w/his issues/demons and begin the healing process. If your h is strong and determined enough and can work through his crisis w/o a lot of interruptions, he may very well come out of it a more mature, settled man. Time will tell if he will be one of the pod people that remains stuck.

As for the children, has he become closer to one in particular? They generally will become best buds w/one child, the child that will not question/challenge what he's doing.

Continue to ask questions, dig deeper for patience and educate yourself on depression and MLC. Above all else, try to keep the focus on you and your children.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2477796 08/11/14 02:04 PM
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Mighty Offline OP
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Thanks, Job! If only we had a crystal ball, right?

Here's a run-down of h's r with kids:

Moved in Dec to a cabin in another town. Was there until end of March. H saw kids every other weekend. We still did things as a fam through most of that time. H would come by house often and see kids and work out w s. Then h took weights and became more distant. Did not want to do things as a family.

Kids did not always want to go with h during that time, but h and I communicated about it and arranged it; I would just tell kids there were going.

April, h moved back into our town. I thought it was great bc he'd be able to help with kids more since I'd been doing all the chauffeuring, etc. NOPE! He became way more distant and stopped communicating with me about kids. He would contact them. And since I was the one who told them before, it really wasn't much of an option to go w their dad. But now, they would just tell him they didn't want to or they had plans. H said it was my fault, I explained that he should have communicated with me as I always encouraged them to be w h. Now I realize hww didn't like him communicating with me.

So, between April-June, d stayed with h once, from 8PM-8AM. Who can blame her? He set up a bedroom for s and d got the couch (futon in the living room). S would go see h when he was ticked off at me. S was going through a very rough time then, and when I would hold him accountable, he would have h come get him. H took kids for ice cream a couple times during this time, but that was about it. He was going to come get them one day for ice cream. I asked h to p/u d from practice and take her. Next thing I know, s is home (about 10 min after h picked him up) and put an ice cream sandwich in the freezer for d. I had to quick text another parent to grab my d from practice, bc h wouldn't answer phone. I asked later why he didn't get d nor answer phone. He said he was in a tanning bed and couldn't get her bc he had to go tanning (it was later that week he went on a cruise with hww and her son).

July-present: he has seen kids once. It was to tell them about his new life/hww/baby/house. He was with them for about 15 min (separately) and dropped them off for me to pick up the pieces. He didn't inform me he was telling them or check that I'd be home. He dropped a bomb on them and dropped them off to deal. They have not wanted to do anything with him since. He texts them all the time, unless they deny doing something with him. H then pouts for a day. Texting then ensues. H bought a PS4 to bribe s to come over.

H would spoil d. She could get anything she wanted from him. I would always say it wasn't good. She knew she could bc she even told me. (Prior to bd) Now, he will ask her to do something and she would say, can we go to the mall? That's the kind of r he created with her over the years. I didn't like it, but now- he does not either! D said, "what's he think he's my boyfriend?" I asked why. He told her she was using him. She feels bad telling him no to do things, but she really does not want to. She often does not respond to his texts. But, she is nice to him when she does communicate.

S does text him frequently, but does not want to do anything with him right now.

Last night h texted the kids something like: The whole day has passed and not one text or phone call from either of you. (H always initiates- he must have been testing them) Is someone telling you not to communicate with me? I have been trying to do things with you and you turn me down. If your mom is doing this, it is wrong. I will be here for you when you want to.

And there you have it. My kids have no reason to be upset with him, right? They are prisoners to my control. They don't have feelings and have no reason not to see him. It is simply me and my anger that I've wildly expressed towards him. I am using my children against him. He has done nothing AND HE IS THE ONE TO TELL US WHAT IS RIGHT FROM WRONG!

And there you have it, my friends. The thinking of a MLC-14-year-old-parent mentality.

Mighty #2477797 08/11/14 02:11 PM
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Mighty,
They become paranoid and very guilty about what they are doing. In his case, he's not ready to look within and realize that the damage he's created w/his children is his own fault. Of course, you are to blame...who else can he point the finger at? It must be you....NOT! Your children are old enough to determine when and if they want to communicate w/him.

Right now, he's definitely a teenager and doesn't understand why his children really do not wish to be in contact w/him. He's got to grow up and he needs to figure out a way to "bond" w/his children. In fact, your children are most likely more mature than he is right now.

Continue to allow him to swing in the wind. Hopefully, in time, he'll settle down and continue to move along the MLC path.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Mighty #2477801 08/11/14 02:18 PM
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Mighty Offline OP
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Oh yeah, d does see h at her games when he goes, but that's it. And, he is upset about buying things for d now when she wants/needs anything bc he pays child support. He has not even given them dinner since February. He does not want to drive them anywhere or do anything that would cost him money. Only if it were something he were doing that were fun. He would take them to get ice cream before dinner bc it was fun and cheaper. This is TOTALLY something his dad would do- (minus ice cream- just not spend money on them or take care of them!) and that bothered him.

Mighty #2477802 08/11/14 02:21 PM
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Mighty Offline OP
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Thanks, Job. That's pretty much where I am at this point. My kids thinks he is bizarre-o! I told them to give it time and let him work out his drama. He will have to work to repair that relationship- starting with validating their feelings and hurt. My kids are old enough now to handle that. I just focus on my r with them and let him clean up his mess.

Thanks for the insight and support! I value it very much!

Mighty #2477890 08/11/14 07:15 PM
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FYI there's a lot out there these days about " parental alienation" ...deliberate efforts on the part of one parent to turn the children against the other. I'm sure it happens, but the trick in a case like yours is to keep your nose clean so that you can't be falsely accused.

You might need to go so far as to let ex know that you are trying to encourage the kids to see him. Sadly there's a fine line between encouraging them to see him and making them feel like they have to accept his behavior.

On a related note....I once mentioned to my 21 year old son that his father and his thirty-something fiancee (now wife) might theoretically try for a pregnancy (she was not OW, they started dating about a year after he left). My son was horrified by the idea. He felt like he would be forced into a relationship with another sibling that he didn't want. (I'm sure there was also an unspoken anger at the thought of being replaced).

So even at his age just the thought of it was a big deal. I can only imagine how much harder it is for your kids.

kml #2477976 08/11/14 11:23 PM
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Hi mighty. . I have been following along but just got caught up on your whole thread and wanted to throw my support into the ring.

I have also been looking back lately at missed signs. I believe the final stressor for my h was my cancer scare but I now trace signs back to when his uncle died about 18 mos earlier. At that point he spent a lot of time hoarding things from his uncle housr that had belonged to his grandfather and really talking about grandfather being the only one who understood him.

I also often (not so much anymore ) think about if my h will be one of the ones who gets stuck. He is still so miserable yet, he supposedly has what he wanted. Except for, never seeing me. BUT I am certainly not forcing him to stay on our house.

Anyway you are doing great coming here and asking questions. Keep it up. And I will keep following your sitch


Me 44 H 42
M 10 T 12 (at time of BD)
Ss 20 16
S11 (special needs)

BD 9/13 H "unhappy for years" moves to seperate bedroom
10/13 EA/PA confirmed but denied
S and I move out 3/15
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