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Joined: Dec 2013
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I guess I should explain my change in mood from my "I hate H!" post to today smile I drove for 3 hours yesterday so had a lot of time to think. The car thing is really not as big of a deal as I initially felt. I can use this car I'm borrowing from my parents indefinitely, they understand. It's not what I would want for a car but I'll be able to get around. Really my anger comes from these arbitrary goals I set for myself that have come "undone." I finally felt like an adult not too long ago because I had checked all the boxes - had a graduate degree, a full-time job, a husband, a pet, and a house (and in the "right order" according to me) and now three of those things (husband, pet, house) had come undone. I often feel like I'm a student again - living in an apartment, feeling unsettled as to what will happen next, no pet, depending on my parents for a car. I just wanted to feel "adult" again. But as I said, these are arbitrary goals that I don't really need to be happy. If I had to choose between waiting for the right car AND waiting on a cat until after I find a car, or getting a cat now, knowing I may not be able to get a car for awhile because of my financial obligations, I'd rather have a cat first because I do still have a car that works. Therefore, I'm going to go visit little Jasper again today and see if he's come out of his shell at all smile


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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Hey, K you last couple of posts reminded me of this which landed in my mail box this week.

Quote:
when we are angry, three things are true:

We are experiencing a strong need and feel an urgent desire to have it met. (We may want to feel safe, valued, or connected to others; we may want to make our own choices, to believe we matter, to be heard, etc.)

Because our need is so important, we don't want others to have a choice about meeting it, so when we talk about our need we apply moralistic rules that we hope will compel others to meet our need. (These rules sound like: "I deserve... You should... The right way is... That's not fair, you're supposed to... ").

Because we believe our rules are correct, we feel justified in treating others in unpleasant ways that will almost guarantee that they won't care about meeting our needs. Oops.

This is a sorry cycle, but it does reveal how we can convert anger into understanding and connection. First, we can recognize that the moralistic rules our partner has about how we should or shouldn't act are just their attempt to compel others to meet their needs. The rules themselves don't really matter. What does matter is to identify the unmet needs that are embedded within these rules.


It reminded me of how rule-bound, black-and-white thinking I was and still can be at times. It's a difficult mind-set to shake because it's usually a defense we've brought with us from the past. Sometimes we don't recognize what we're doing.

What can you do to help you when you get into that place?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 667
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KGirl Offline OP
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I'll keep thinking about it. I don't have a ton of clear answers right now about some things - like the whole not changing accounts to pay bills like he said he would. There's a second one today that I found that he hasn't transferred. I'm finding it hard to balance making sure my needs are met in terms of things not being paid for with money that's part mine (I am not OK with paying towards bills that are supposed to be his now) and not "nagging" since that was one of the things he said he was unhappy with. It's hard to figure out how to phrase things so that he won't take them as nagging. Today he sent me a text about something unrelated so I responded with "Great! thanks for letting me know. BTW, the cell phone bill is still coming out of the joint account. If you'd rather just repay the account from your own each month, that would be fine with me." - he said he hasn't been able to do some things since his computer isn't working, but I know he can transfer money easily on his phone. Whereas in the past I probably would have just said "Why didn't you change the cell phone bill yet?" And I still am thinking in my head "You said you could be responsible for things and didn't need me reminding you all the time.. but yet here we are two bill cycles later and you still haven't changed it?" Short of logging in and changing it myself to his own account (which feels innapropriate) I'm not how else to get my needs met on this one without potentially coming across as angry to him. But I'll keep thinking.


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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Posts: 9,676
How can you respectfully tell him what your need is and remind him of his agreement nagging?

It can be done.

Some things have to be discussed especially when they revolve around concrete things like business and money. You have to know your boundaries and the consequences of him breaching your boundaries.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 667
K
KGirl Offline OP
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K
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 667
I would think just a simple "Would you please transfer this bill to your own account?" would be sufficient.. but then I feel like I need to add a "by X date" because otherwise there's no timeline for me to check in again by. But if I set a deadline then he'll feel like I'm "pressuring" him to do it on my timeline (which is another reason he was unhappy). BUT, we did put in our written agreemnt that things would be done by a certain date, and they are not. So maybe instead it could go something like:
"We had agreed that you would transfer these bills by X date. When I see that they are not transferred, I feel stressed, because I need to know that my finances are squared away. You mentioned you had trouble transferring things because your computer isn't working - is there anything I can do to help with this?"


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
L
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Offline
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L
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
That seems fine, but I wouldn't offer to help.

Why do you think you're pressuring him? Whoever the bill is owed to sets the time line and this is different from "I'd like the dishes to be done when I get home." (just an example)

Are you angry? I think a bit of anger/disappointment would be justified as he's not doing what he promised.

What's your bottom-line, would you rather keep the peace and pay the bill or risk him thinking you're angry?

Whose problem is this, really? What would happen if he doesn't pay a few bills?

Is this indicative of your past R with him?

K, you have so much to offer, don't let him define you.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 667
K
KGirl Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
K
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 667
I was also thinking earlier today that I don't need to include helping him. It's a relatively easy thing that shouldn't require help. I texted him that we had agreed to switch these by X date and it's stressful for me when i see that they aren't, and could he please let me know when he does change them? That way I don't have to keep asking or checking online - the responsibility is on him to notify me it's all set. He responded "Yeah, I'll let you know when I've changed them."

Why do I think I'm pressuring him? I think it's because of the things he said at BD that are making me overly cautious. He said I gave him an "ultimatum" to get married so he doesn't feel like he did it for the right reasons, because before I moved in with him I said I didn't want to unless he was committed to marrying me, he said not a problem, but then 5 months later still nothing. I asked him what the deal was and he said he "wasn't sure." I told him that was upsetting because he said he knew he wanted to get married when I moved in, and now he was changing his mind, so I wasn't sure I wanted to stay there anymore. He felt this was pressuring him to get married or be alone, so he chose to get married. Who knows if that was the thought process at the time, but that's how he sees it now. He also felt like I pressured him about chores and asking him to do things by a certain time. We had actually made up a dish-washing calendar that we had both agreed to (he'd do pots and pans Sun, Tues, Thurs, I'd do small things like knives and utensils the other days)... but then he started not doing his dishes on the days he was supposed to. He told me at BD that it was too much to mow the lawn AND do dishes in one day. Our lawn is postage-stamp sized, it takes less than an hour to mow. I don't think my expectations were unreasonable for most people (doing the dishes within a couple of days of creating them? Vs. he'd let them sit for a week or two), but maybe they were for him. This is where he felt like I was "nagging" him. Now I feel nervous to ask him or remind him to do anything because it will be more "nagging" or reminders, regardless of my tone. And honestly, I was not a crazy housekeeper or chore person. I didn't feel the need to have the bathroom cleaned weekly, or even vaccum weekly :S I could understand if I had extremely high standards and expect him to do it all, that that could make him unhappy. But mowing the lawn and dishes in one day seems like a fairly normal thing.. but I'm off tangent, I think.

Yes, I'm angry and disappointed. Particularly because he told me that when I wasn't there to take care of stuff for him anymore he was going to step up and really be on the ball on stuff. I don't see that happening.

I'd rather risk him thinking I'm angry. Whose problem is this - I may need to explain a bit more. So things like the cable bill, electric bill, etc. came out of a joint checking account that we contributed equally to. When I moved, we agreed that he would switch those bills to autodeduct from his personal checking account, as I shouldn't have to pay for half of a bill that I'm not benefiting from (I have my own cable and electric bills to pay at my apartment). So any bill that comes out of the joint account I half-paid for, when I shouldn't have to because I don't live there... plus I make slightly less $ than he does so it hurts me financially even more. Right now what's been happening is when I let him know it hasn't transferred, he reimburses the joint account with his personal money so it's made "whole" - premise being we'd split what's in the joint account if we D. It's annoying to me that I've had to be the one to notice this, though, and let him know about it. I don't think he sees it as as big of an issue because the bill IS getting paid, and if he reimburses it I'm not losing any money. It's just frustrating that he doesn't pay attention or keep me in the loop that he hasn't transferred the bills, and that I find out when I see the money deducted.

Is this indicative of our past R? Sure, I think so. He tends to not worry about fixing things until they've become an issue (when the dishes start smelling or he runs out of clean ones, THEN he'll do them). I like to do things before they become problems. I thought I was doing a good job in the past year or so about not nagging but trying to come up with joint solutions. I offered to do things like dishes because they were important to me and not him. He said no because he didn't like how I did them (??). We made a chore chart so things were clear.. he stopped following it. I offered to mow the lawn, shovel the snow, etc. so that I was doing more of the "manual labor" (he told me that things like shopping lists, couponing, picking things up at the store, etc. didn't count because they weren't "real chores") - he told me no, he'd rather do them himself. It was sometimes a struggle to have my needs met for cleanliness, organization, etc., considering he didn't like to have a set timeline. For example, if I would say "I'd like to get this picture hung - when do you think we could do that? Maybe on Saturday?" he'd say "Sure" and then when Saturday came and I asked about it again, he'd get cranky and say "It's just an arbitrary day, there's no reason it HAS to be done today" even though that's what he agreed to.

A good way of summarizing this pressure/reminding conflict, especially w/ regard to tasks or deadlines: we both took a personality test at some point, and I was definitively a "J".
J characteristics:
-I like to have things decided.
-I appear to be task oriented.
-I like to make lists of things to do.
-I like to get my work done before playing.
-I plan work to avoid rushing just before a deadline.
-Sometimes I focus so much on the goal that I miss new information.
H was squarely a "P". P characteristics:
-I like to stay open to respond to whatever happens.
-I appear to be loose and casual. I like to keep plans to a minimum.
-I like to approach work as play or mix work and play.
-I work in bursts of energy.
-I am stimulated by an approaching deadline.
-Sometimes I stay open to new information so long I miss making decisions when they are needed.

I felt like I made a active effort to be more flexible and understand where he was coming from (with the dishes for example, as long as they were done by the end of "his" day, that we had agreed to, it didn't matter if they were done in the morning, after work, etc. And I never cared how long it took him to do outdoor chores.) I don't feel like he worked to meet me in the middle, though, and that his attitude is/was "this is just how I am, too bad." When I voiced unhappiness or stressed about how he handled or took care of something (or didn't, in many cases) I heard several times "If you don't like it, there's the door." Maybe I should have thought more about that when I heard it more than once.


Me:30 H:29, no kids
T:12, M:4 (when D was final)
12/13: "Don't think I want to be M anymore"
6/14: Separated (I move)
1/15: H filed for D
5/15: D final
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