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"Action: talked back to wife after she said "what is the sudden interest in vacuuming? You've never done it before","

I don't get why you think her asking was rude.

"when I helped vacuum up s20s beard hair after trimming. I pointed out that I vacuumed the bathroom, the hall, ... and she said "I don't care"."

I understand her POV. She really didn't need a reply.

"I said "well then you should not criticize, my friend", end of conversation. I was mad - ."

Why? You really need to choose your battles wisely.

As for your kids, don't give up. The reason why they're not receptive to you is because you didn't really try before. And any way, telling your daughter that you want to take her to a car wash isn't exactly what I would consider a good time.

Be patient and for God's sake, take your son out to do something fun rather than a depressing film like - Selfish Giant. Was that your son's recommendation? What does he like to do?


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Hi Bond,

The point was that I do vacuum, though not as often and exactingly as W does (if I have not mentioned it, she takes the head off the hose and vacuums with the hose end alone, for maximum suction; she disapproves of my using the usual 'stick' extension, but I don't care). She, as I heard it, said that I never do, which is simply not true. When I asked d16 what I could give her a while ago, she said I could vacuum (!) and clean the house, so I do.

I do see your point, Bond, that she simply might not care exactly what I do cleaningwise.

I offered to do the laundry years ago, and she said "please do not", that I am not good at it. She takes over the kitchen when on vacation, as if she wants nothing from me. So my household jobs are mostly cooking on weekdays, when the women are out working and I have time to prepare food.

S20 really liked Selfish Giant, an excellent movie. He studies English Lit, so this literary/arty stuff is to his taste.

S20 likes our cats, his friends, his university, humor (Colbert, Stewart and the Onion are heroes), web stuff.

Our little town here is not the most exciting place. The car wash is actually a (for here) event of sorts...

Action: took son to car dealer's, where snow tires come off tomorrow, and then walked back with him through town, stopping at various stores, including his favorite, the cheese specialist, where we got some new smelly ones for him (he chose). He is much easier than either d16 or W to be with.

Big fun here is riding on multi-person railroad bicycles, the kids sing and we speed along, pick berries or mushrooms, picnic, talk, relax. W did not come on the most recent trip, fortunately, so I had a very good time.

Luke


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"The point was that I do vacuum, though not as often and exactingly as W does "

Did she tell you that was a problem before?

"(if I have not mentioned it, she takes the head off the hose and vacuums with the hose end alone, for maximum suction; she disapproves of my using the usual 'stick' extension, but I don't care)."

But if her way works better (which it usually does) then you should do it. In the end all you're getting is a clean house.

"I do see your point, Bond, that she simply might not care exactly what I do cleaningwise."

Of course she doesn't.

"I offered to do the laundry years ago, and she said "please do not", that I am not good at it."

Many women actually say this. It doesn't mean anything in terms of disrespect.

"She takes over the kitchen when on vacation, as if she wants nothing from me."

Seriously? Why do you feel so rejected just because she wants to use HER kitchen? I think you're so wrapped up in the ACTS OF SERVICE part of love that if someone else does it, you actually feel rejected and not useful. It makes sense. I mean, you think you have no self-worth so your service is the only thing you think you can offer. Then when that's gone, you feel rejection.

"So my household jobs are mostly cooking on weekdays, when the women are out working and I have time to prepare food."

So?

"S20 really liked Selfish Giant, an excellent movie. He studies English Lit, so this literary/arty stuff is to his taste."

Okay but next time you should just do things together that's not so heavy in subject where you two can just laugh.

"Action: took son to car dealer's, where snow tires come off tomorrow, and then walked back with him through town, stopping at various stores, including his favorite, the cheese specialist, where we got some new smelly ones for him (he chose). He is much easier than either d16 or W to be with."

That's because he's your BOY. You can't relate to women. But that doesn't mean you can't learn to. You isolated yourself from your own daughter for a long time so it will take awhile for things to grow.

"Big fun here is riding on multi-person railroad bicycles, the kids sing and we speed along, pick berries or mushrooms, picnic, talk, relax."

Sounds like fun.

"W did not come on the most recent trip, fortunately, so I had a very good time."

Passive aggressive. How do you know you wouldn't have had a good time with your W? Throughout all of this, I haven't seen you make any CONSISTENT effort to improve things with your W. I mean if you don't plan to, then why don't you go ahead and file for a D already?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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I am feeling quite sad. Vacuumed again, unbidden (W makes daily work list for s20, and sometimes would do the same for me). No walks or activities with kids today. W made dinner. At least she accepted that I made lunch. During my 2 hour business teleconference tonight, w and d16 were together, sitting next to each other in bed, watching something on youtube, chatting, s20 playing a videogame.

So if I don't improve my R with d16, I suppose I should just pay what is needed, be friendly, not expect anything, and go have fun with others. I hardly see d16, W walks with her to and from train, disappears upstairs with her after dinner. I feel like I can't relate or attract her well, and any time is just lost. It'd be easier to just give up and not count her as a loss. Does my child owe me anything? I'd like to think not.

At least s20 has said yes to the (delayed) Sicily trip, this coming Christmas vacation.

Am thinking of telling d16 where her fancy new laptop is hidden in my room while I am in the US, giving her a 'magic', unexpected present. She's mentioned a few times that she would like one, but is first expecting it when I return.

Is journaling a good outlet for sadness like this?

Luke


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Luke,

Hearing this is very difficult for me:

It'd be easier to just give up and not count her as a loss.

Really?!

My late beloved father and I were as tight as Velcro. Sure, we had our rough times, but he NEVER, NEVER gave up on me. At one point, our father-daughter relationship was very strained where we fought ALMOST every day during my middle school years...that is 3 years of almost misery. I was asserting my independence and a fairly headstrong girl.

During my teenage years, I was self-absorbed and not really wanting to hang out with him much. However, my father made the time to involve me in some activities that were father-daughter bonding time. We would have our chess matches, backgammon matches, or going out in town to play pool. In the Sprint time, we would go mushroom hunting for morsel mushrooms back in my grandparents' woods. I have very, very fond memories of those special times with my Dad.

When I moved in with my Dad during the last year of his life to support him through his cancer, I still hold this very much cherished memory. One day, I was working hard at my home office. Dad walked in and said, "Wonka, come on out with me." Distracted, I said, "No, I can't. Need to finish some work here." Not deterred at all, Dad said "Look, Wonka...I would really like for you to come out and blow bubbles with me." Well....who can resist that?! So we went out in the backyard patio and blew bubbles. I felt like a 5-year old again and laughed with unabashed delight. We both laughed and tried to out compete against each other with blowing the BIGGEST bubbles. Now...nearly 2 years on after his death, I still vividly remember this special moment with him. smile

Don't EVER give up on your own daughter, Luke!

It is UP to you work hard at your relationships with your D and S. This is how you show love for your own children.

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"So if I don't improve my R with d16, I suppose I should just pay what is needed, be friendly, not expect anything, and go have fun with others. I hardly see d16, W walks with her to and from train, disappears upstairs with her after dinner. I feel like I can't relate or attract her well, and any time is just lost. It'd be easier to just give up and not count her as a loss. Does my child owe me anything? I'd like to think not. "

WTH? This is one of the most depressing things I've heard from you. So you're not even going to try any more? She's YOUR DAUGHTER for God's sake man! YOU start taking action in building those interactions. Stop relying on someone to do them for you. Have you ever been diagnosed with depression?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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