Discovering the buck stops here....

[AJM]

Hey mizjjd. Long time no hear. Nice to hear from you.

It says to me that I may not be crazy after all

We should probably leave that out of the picture for now, yeah? I mean, you are married to a narcissistic person right?

It's good that he's going to counseling. Doesn't sound like you really need to be there. Maybe there's a time when you can hang back? I suspect the counselor, if any good, will eventually ask you to not be there. There are some things that you shouldn't be there for and it would get in the way. Give it time, but that's likely coming.

AJ

[mizjjd]

Thanks AJ!

It says to me that I may not be crazy after all

We should probably leave that out of the picture for now, yeah? I mean, you are married to a narcissistic person right?

Good point, lol

It's good that he's going to counseling. Doesn't sound like you really need to be there. Maybe there's a time when you can hang back? I suspect the counselor, if any good, will eventually ask you to not be there. There are some things that you shouldn't be there for and it would get in the way. Give it time, but that's likely coming.

I have already volunteered to not go. Because (surprise!) its been the H show mostly anyway. Currently, H wants me to be there.

However, our 10 free sessions are coming to an end. At the end of the last session we were discussing the details of continuing what would be paid sessions. And I managed to calmly tell H that if he doesn't decide to completely get rid of OW I see no point in M counseling. (Oh the look I got from H! Lol, it would have soured milk.)

H is "thinking" about breaking it off completely with OW. He asks me if I would be happier without him. I tell him I don't know, but I'm willing to find out. He tried to make a deal, he'd get rid of OW completely but I'd have to promise to never ever speak of her. I said no deal. I don't plan to regularly chat about her, I don't now. But I'm not going to just pretend this never happened. I asked H if he could never mention the business that got shut down. He said that wasn't a fair comparison because the business meant everything to him...

I said yes, just like my M did.

But you know, he doesn't get it. If you believe the literature, he can't get it. That's part of the Narcissist. (The Dr. believes "selfish" is a kinder term?)Dr. told H that he leads a shallow emotional existence and that if we split H will end up isolated because I am the glue between him and the kids. (And none of this made H angry... oddness.)

I tried to explain to H that its kind of like he's color blind. There are "colors" he just can't see. Sometimes I think he knows they're there... and he squints... but still can't quite see them.

Sad thing really.

Peace,

~Jaye

[Matt165]

Hi mizjjd,
I'm beginning to think that the narcissism is a symptom of MLC! You see over and over again on the board where S's that used to be good, loving, normal H/W's turn into total narcosis's. Not sure how long you were M before the MLC started but so many S's that spent many, many years being "normal" suddenly turn out to be diagnosed when they go to MC. Could a true NP person hide their true nature for so very long? You would think that long before the MLC showed up, that would have come up in the R.

I'm no Dr. or therapist but just something I've been noticing. My W who was a good, loving W and mother for a long time now can't seem to think about or talk about ANYTHING BUT herself. She is obsessed with what she wants, what she is doing, how she feels. She doesn't care about how what she is doing affects her kids, her family, me...she can only think of herself. Sounds like narcissus to me but it's new behavior. Maybe they suppressed it and now can't? Or maybe it's all part of the MLC?

[mizjjd]

Matt,

There is definitely some intertwining. And any crisis can make an individual appear Narcissistic - its a survival technique.

But my M hasn't been "good" for years, I'd say about the last 18 years.... (We've been married 23 years. I discovered current OW and got the bomb drop nearly 2 years ago.)

I think it is the "newness" of the behavior that lends the diagnosis to either MLC or not. Some of H's behaviors are new, and we are at the empty nest stage combined with the sudden declining health of his parents. But H has been emotionally unavailable for a long, long time. Which is what the Dr. referenced when I asked if this could be part of MLC. It is pretty typical of Narcissists to start a relationship with great intensity, then when they realize they've married nothing more than a flawed human, they flip the switch and show the dark side of the moon...lol.

I don't know your sitch, but I thank you for stopping by, and wish you all the best.

[mizjjd]

Hello All.

Can hardly believe its been 8 months since I last checked in.

First, to all the newbies. Hang in there. You may be hurting like you've never hurt before, but you will get better. "Better" may not be getting-everything-you-want, but you will heal and strengthen. My prayers to you.

Second, to any who might remember and wonder, an update.

S22 Has moved out. Hasn't taken his cats yet, I'm hoping that will be very soon. He drinks too much and too often. With our family history that is a big worry. But he is an adult. I can't fix him. And I can't let worry for him rule my life.

D20 Back in rehab for the second time to deal with her heroin addiction. She has dropped, finally, the 34 year old BF who helped introduce her to heroin. No job, no prospects. More big worry. Another adult I can't fix and can't let worry for rule my life.

S18A In his 2nd semester of college. Seems to be doing ok. Have recently found out he "parties". Imagine being happy to learn its "only" pot... never would have thought I'd be capable of thinking that... but having a heroin addicted child rather skews one's perspective.

S18B Also in college. Not remotely ok. He parties with a capital P. And... seems to have had a psychotic break a couple weeks ago. Ended up committing himself for a couple days of observation. Discovered that while he hasn't used heroin or cocaine, there's not much else he hasn't used. And apparently he's very fond of LSD and Molly. Which I'm sure helped him have a psychotic break. This break coincided with a break up. H has decided the break up is "not only the focal point of the break, but also the cause." I am not so sure. But, I have a huge bias against drugs and so tend to find them at fault in most situations.

H. Still here... OW is gone. Sort of replaced though. H has made a "pen pal" out of someone he met through online poker. I don't think he knows that I know. The emails are PG at the most (rather boring after the aching thighs of the last one lol) but he hides them from me and never mentions her. And, he never mentions me in his emails to her either. So, yeah, its cheating. Oddest thing in finding the first one though was an absence of feeling on my part. It was, is, rather like discovering a knife protruding from your arm but being unable to feel any pain.

Anticlimactic. Just another sign of how far I have come, how much the marriage has changed. It may change more drastically fairly soon because H has decided someone must go watch over his parents. And that someone, he has decided, will be him. His plan is for him to go live in Canada with his folks while I remain here in Ohio "keeping things going and being here if the kids need me." He plans to possibly work part time while there and send money to me.

Sounds like a bit of magical thinking to me. But, truth be told, it also sounds ideal. Not, mind you, that H ever asked me if I would be ok with it. (Why start concerning himself with me at this point in the game?)His parents don't seem to think its a good idea, something about "breaking up our family". H assures them its not a problem because the kids are at school/moved out etc and Jaye'll be here for them and H is only 9 hours away. Do you notice, ladies and gents, that there is not a single mention of perhaps Jaye, perhaps the marriage being part of the equation? Thank heavens I am at a point where I can find that amusing instead of painful.

And as for Jaye. Still shining along. I lost my wonderfuljob. I started to decline last summer, started making mistakes, couldn't concentrate. They let me go just after Christmas. And... within a month I was recruited for another job, same pay, 1 mile from my house. Badda bing. Lol. And I am still at fastfoodland, still working 7 days a week. And still not making enough money to make it on my own. Had surgery in January, $7000 after insurance. But, and perhaps H is right and I am the crazy one, life is good.

Yep. Could be crazy. I have a drunk child, a junkie child and a psychotic child and a fairly average child. I have a H who is a serial cheater and a M that has slipped off the rocks and is now floundering in the cesspool between the rocks. But lol, I'm ok. Life is good. I look forward to things, I plan small celebrations - H and I are going out to dinner for our 23rd anniversary next week - I have some goals for myself. I am working out. I feel good. My life is not perfect, nearly perfectly awful in fact lol. But I am ok.

Gotta run. Treadmill's calling me, and I have to feed those damn cats... lol. I'm all for detachment and having others be responsible for themselves, but, the cats are hungry.

I have seen that Job and Cadet and many other wonderful people are still here, earning stars in their crowns. May god bless us all.

Take care,

Love,

Jaye

[job]

OMG! No wonder the weather is so crazy! This is a surprise to beat all!

I'm so sorry to hear about all of the "stuff" going on w/your family. I do hope your children will get it together and leave the booze and drugs alone.

I'm sorry things have taken a downward spiral a bit, but you've got a good attitude and I know that you are doing the best you can. I bet you can't wait for hubby to move in w/his parents. LOL! Now, that's going to be very interesting. He may end up reserving a room at the nearest loony bin once he's there for a while.

As for the cats...Jaye, I know you want them gone, but right now, they are just good companions to have around the house. They really don't create a lot of problems for you...right?

I'm sorry to hear that you had surgery, but I do hope you are doing okay.

I'm keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers. Don't be a stranger, please come back to post again real soon. We miss you!

[RosaLinda]

So nice to hear from you Jaye!! You sound GOOD despite all the dysfunction surrounding you. So sad to hear about your kids' problems with drugs and mental illness. It must be so hard for you. I can't believe the twins are 18; where has the time gone??? Sorry to hear you lost WonderfulJob but it sounds like you've found an even more WonderfulJob! Congratulations!

Is your H still trying to make a living as a professional gambler? You'll be amazed at the peace you'll experience once he's gone. My ex is back with his mom too (after an extended 5 month congugal visit to Moscow ) and is VERY unhappy but I feel as if an oppressive black cloud has blown out of my house.