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Scoring was fun! But I think she's into the "loyalty to OP" kick now. But, in hindsight, when I did score it was after she had returned from an overseas trip that I had refused to go on with her and the kids. It was to visit her family and I said I would not go and pretend to be the happy Hubby for her family. I also felt time away from each other might be beneficial. The day after she returned I initiated ML and she went for it. Talk about performance anxiety, I thought " I better make this good or I won't be getting any more" I wonder if taking control and saying "I'm not going" was what you described? It hurt like Hell and I cried a few times, my family had never gone on a trip without me until then. It was also right after that she agreed to try BR dance with me and have I paid for that choice!
It may indeed be appropriate to talk to a counsellor at this point again and I conferred with a lawyer about one year ago (I told W that I had done so and said "I may be a loyal man but I'm not a stupid man), it might be a good idea to do so again.
I'm leaning to your idea of giving a time limit ultimatum, it gives her time to really think about what she wants. She recently refused to go for counselling with me to discuss the future. Counsellor said W needed to start thinking about the future instead of being mired in the present and just getting through. Anyway, please don't feel your input has not been valuable, it has. Thanks again, Theo.


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Whatis,

It seems that right now your wife had everything she wants: a stable income-producing roomate at home, a loving father to her children, and an outside lover/best friend she can have her ego fed with and have sex with. She gets to beherself with you: she doesn't have to edit herself, she's not trying to please you, she can even be nasty if she wants. She enjoys some "family" activities with you so she can palliate her conscience and make her think she's a good person.

This stasis is ideal for her. It's utterly selfish but vert comfortable. It's ultimately self-destructive, but she can't see that. People living in the Matrix are pretty well narcotized until someone upsets their little world.

Timlines and talking about the future might help.

When you talk about the future with your wife, see if she has thought what it would look like for her: with or without you. 1,2,3,5,7 years down the line. Let her draw out scenarios. Be brave. She's already mentally checked out of your marriage, it's just a matter of seeing and naming the future out loud and on paper.

She plans to stay with you for the sake of the kids for how long? What will that look like? Is she OK with you seeing other people while you are married? Does she want a paper marriage European style? People in French, Latin and Fililpino cultures accept this.

Does she intend to stay in this relationship with OW? For how long? Does she want this woman as her "life-partner" or is she just a convenient stopping point until she finds another man? Is it really a healthy relationship?

Does she realize what you leaving, because of her affair, will might do to the children?

Your counselor is really trying to help you and probably will help you exhaust every possible option until you decide that it's over and offer an ultimatum.

I think, perhaps 3 things have not been explored yet.

1. A true 180. Start acting out of character in a strong, decisive, counter-intuitive way. It might unbalance her and make her think.

2. A real attempt at the Last Resort Technique. Hard core. Going dark. Being mysterious. Stop everyhing that you would do as a happily married couple. No ballroom dancing. (It seems you don't enjoy it with her anyway. Better yet, do it by yourself.) Family events are fine to do: you are still there for the kids and you'll have to respect their mother. This might give her a taste for what she'll be missing in a small way. Don't be there for her at all. Respond to her at your pace when and if you want to. In other words, stop "working" on the relationship. She still feels like you are trying and it gives her a rush of power. She has no idea what life without you will be like. Her vacation without you made her miss you.

3. Seriously consider the whole male/female dynamic. It might be a unique way of doing a 180 for you. The power in the relationship right now is 95% her and 5% you. You need to act *as if* is 100% with you. She needs, for the moment, to be an appendage to your life. And if this marriage gets healed, then, you with both be equal players in a shared story. This guy Cunningham, and David Dada believe the main issue in a marraige is attractiom. And attraction is bases on polarity. Polarity is a dance. Some marriages work if both partners are sexually neutral (your both equally masculine and feminine) and that's a rarity. Most marriages have polarity. It's the loss of this, and ultimately attraction, that causes things to go sour.

If you don't buy the polarity argument, that's OK. Read Cunningham's e-book at http://www.makingherhappy.com. Look at is from the angle of attraction. He argues that women have attraction buttons, and all you need to do is push them. The way you push them is to excercize you masculinity in a strong yet benevolent way.

Ok...I've banged this drum enough times.

If you do give her an ultimatum, will you file? Will you just spearate and watch? Do you want her to move out or will you? I suggest she moves out. She needs her world upset. You shouldn't be the one to move out so that she can have what she wants. Either way, not having you around and being, perhaps, encouraged to move in with the butt-ugly sycophant might stir her pot and make her re-think. If it doesn't, I'm sorry: but think of it this way, if your wife needs a needy "woman" to emotionally wait on her hand and foot -- good riddance.

I am in awe of your patience, love and goodness.

--Thedoen

Last edited by theoden; 03/15/07 01:56 PM.



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Thank you, Theo. There is alot to absorb in that post. I will give it serious thought.
Right now, I am fighting the urge to sit her down tonight and say "I am not willing to do this anymore, I am ready to give you one month to decide whether you want to re-build our marriage and keep our family together or not. If so, I am ready to give 100% to making our M work, if not then we will sit down and work out a separation agreement that is in the best interests of all involved. Let me know" I'm still too emotional I think to make that decision today but damn it, I want to! I have to detach more right now, I'm responding emotionally to her stupid little behaviours. For example, this morning I dropped D at her day activity and returned home. I sat down and opened the newspaper and W walked into the living room, went right by me, got something out of her purse and walked away. No good morning or acknowledgement of any kind. When she left she yelled goodbye to eldest D and ignored me completely. Normally, crap like that has little impact on me, it's childish, selfish nonsense but today it got my dander up. I've got to let go of that. I've been trying to tell myself that this is her issue and has nothing to do with me. Today, we also met with someone re financial matters and I did not once interupt to explain anything to W, I let the rep. take care of everything. I caught myself twice wanting to jump in but stopped. I think I did good!
Oh, and W has not slept in our room since I moved back in, I think it is her way of saying "screw you". Hey, it works for me, I'm back in my bed and she can find places to sleep.
Theo, I'm with you when you talk of getting her to look at the future, that is exactly what counsellor wants her to do. Personally, if she does want OP and not our R then I am more than willing to pack it in and make the best life we can separately for our kids. Just friggin tell me! I don't want to live in an environment full of anger and hate, that is no life for any of us. I want to approach W with ultimatum at a time when I'm at peace not filled with inner turmoil and resentment. I hope that day is still possible. I believe the bright spot ere may be that the winter months are almost over and that is when her yearly depression usually lifts. I was thinking a few weeks ago that this year we were getting off lightly but now when I look back at her behaviour, it has been more than trying, it just creeps up on you little by little and you don't notice. We usually have a big blowup earlier than this, I thought maybe we had avoided it this year. Oh well, every family needs its traditions. I believe during last years performance I told her to go and get some psychiatric help, I think she may have missed her appointments
Just thought I'd mention that my strategy right now is to call her on rudeness in a calm, polite manner. If she chooses not to greet me then that's her business but when she does interact with me (or the kids) she will need to address us in an appropriate manner or stay the Hell away from us!

Last edited by whatisis; 03/15/07 06:44 PM.

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Whatisis,
I have not kept up and for that I am sorry. But just wanted to let you know that I was thinking of you brother....Hope all is going as well as can be expected.

Take care of yourself and those kids...

Later,
ben


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Whatis,

I think you'll be fine.

God bless.

I realize that when I come on these boards, I can get really and deeply saddened by people's situations.

---Theoden




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Theo, don't let me bring you down! I'm like the Energizer Bunny, I just keep on going! Thanks for caring.
BTW you too, OSU.
Just thought I'd mention something positive (to perk Theo up!). We met with a financial rep. today and my W made the arrangements. She made it for the morning because I had plans to go out this evening. This meant she had to miss a few hours of work which is like depriving her of oxygen. She told me she did this so that I could still go out tonight. I do feel that was respectful (naw, probably just wanted me out of the house ). Just kidding! It was a nice gesture on her part. Now I actually have to go out even though I don't feel like it!

Last edited by whatisis; 03/15/07 10:02 PM.

Divorced February 27, 2012.

"Only by love is love awakened".~ Ellen G White
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