Okay gang, here are some of the ground rules for discussion of The Divorce Remedy. It will be impossible for me to read everyone's life stories since I expect many questions. To get the most out of our "conversations", feel free to do the following:
* Ask me to elaborate on certain points in the book. Refer to the pages and/or chapters so that I can be as specific as possible.
* If you have questions about the applications of certain techniques to your specific situation, describe your situation briefly and ask a very specific question.
* Feel free to share your thoughts about what you've read
* Depending on the number of questions, be patient about my ability to respond to everyone in a timely fashion. I'll do my best!
* Let's enjoy the on-line book club discussion! Go for it!
I can't apply step three because W doesn't want to do anything for me or OR right now. My questions is about the example couple you used in Ch. 5, p 99, Garth and Lena. I'm in the same boat as them, W wonders if she would miss me. In their case should Garth have let her move out? In my case I would be the one to leave. No kids are involved.
I've done the 180 and she's noticed. She still maintains a friendship with OM and claims her feelings don't cloud her judgement. Is it better to stay under the same roof or should I jump to the last resort technique before she asks me to leave? We're still semi-friendly at this point.
I wrote you last week, and you even posted my letter in this section (tho it's been removed), and in http://www.weiner-davis.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/004135.html. Additional relevant details are that W has hired lawyer, but not filed, has insisted that she needs a divorce and is having a very intense PA. She's not moved out, but last week moved out of bedroom.
I gave her a copy of "Should I stay or Go", which Arnold says he and you are not fans of. She's somewhat interested in it.
Given that she was so moved by your first chapter, I'm wondering if and how to present Divorce Remedy to her. She knows I have the book. I'm concerned about giving away techniques, like LRT and 180, and having it tossed in my face. I do so much want her to know about the Seven Steps, but I wonder about revealing too much of my hand. I would so love for her to read success stories, midlife crisis, and adultery. I'm also concerned about how she'll react to you strong cautions that some marriages are not salvagable ("See, even you're guru says so"). What are your thoughts and guidance? Maybe a chapter-by-chapter approach? But if I try to regulate her pace, isn't that controlling?
Please advise
z
(Again, feel free to use my letter as you see fit)
[This message has been edited by Zebra (edited 09-04-2001).]
Reachingout, Don't move out. Stay friendly but withdrawn. You say she's noticed your 180's. How so? What's been different? Don't pressure her about her PA. Read the chapter on infidelity if you haven't already, especially the last section.
Z, Don't give her the book. Go slowly. IF she's willing to read something, give her "Getting Through to the Man You Love." Some similar ideas, but no LRT. Women often love it.But don't push any book on her that she doesn't seem interested in reading. Michele
Hi Michele! I have a question that falls somewhere between recovering from infidelity and overcoming passion meltdown. My W and I are traveling down the road to reconciliation, and are slowly regaining confidence in our relationship. One of our (my?) major problems seems to be that I may be farther along in forgiving my W's affair than SHE is. She's harboring a lot of guilt over what happened, and it's putting the binders on our physical relationship.
I know that my W has to work through a lot of this on her own. I know that patience is important. What I don't know is if there is any way I can help speed up the process. Or if I should even try. Is this just something that needs to be dealt with in counseling sessions? If so, should I be the one to bring it up, or wait until the time is right for her? Or should I just "do nothing" about it at this time, and just keep doing what I'm doing to draw her closer to me?
BTW, I've found that trying to give your spouse books to read is usually "more of what doesn't work". It seems to come across as controlling, manipulative, and telling them what they need to do to "fix" themselves. I've had more success in buying my W books by her favorite authors, or about her favorite subjects, or something really fun and funny to read. No relationship type of reading material. Give them something that will put a smile on their face when they receive it, and help them to think "happy thoughts" of you whenever they see it or read it.
What HAS worked well for me is sharing the SBT techniques I've learned as they relate to people outside of OR (i.e. family, friends, co-workers, etc.) I've been trying to introduce a lot of the concepts to my W in our dealings with our children, and it's been working GREAT! In fact, it's helping us to be a stronger team in dealing with the home situation, which, in turn, is helping us to become stronger as a couple. I know, most of the books say that you have to be strong as a couple FIRST to be an effective family, but that isn't always the easiest thing to do in our situations. So, why not take the "back-door" method to it, try something different, and see if it works, right?!
Thanks, Michele.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Michele - My situation with my h is in your chapter Pulling It All Together. The difference is we are not living together but we were raising our grandson together and he now has him all the time except when I pick grandson up to stay overnight about every two weeks. We were married 30 yrs-kids grown-lots of stress with kids-raising our geandson-H definately in MLC. Been separated 6 months worked on marriage for first 3 months and he saw changes but not in himself o he wanted distance. Typical talk and actions o MLC. Problem is he doesn't talk, tell me anything, etc. Never shows me he sees the difference in me ex: look better than I have in about 20 years, attitude, etc. Which is not much different than he always was for 30 years. Has ow I think - know it was an EA, pretty sure it is a PA too. How far how often he sees her I don't know. He is going to co-dependent Annoy. Says it is helping him. We don't talk about our R what little we see of each other. He feels extreme guilt. I can tell by his actions, won't look at me, etc.) I made my goals but can't seem to get anything to move in our relationship right now. I'm becoming very discouraged. I don't know how to ask him what I want (step 3) I don't want to push him if he is not ready. Where do I go from here?
Hi Everyone! I may be the only divorced person posting here, but Michelles book has given me hope. EX lives with OW he left me for, 4 yrs ago. The hate wall between us has finally come down and I can say we are casual friends right now. He has actually expressed some negative feelings about his home situation, but not in great detail, and has even invited me out to lunch several times. We are going to lunch again this week.. I feel this is now my "window of opportunity" to use everything I can from Michelles wisdom. Here is my delema: Supposedly ex and OW got engaged a yr ago, but there is no date set and ex actually told me 3 months ago there is no way he is going to marry her the way she is right now--don't have details. Anyway, I have kind of an inner conflict going-basically I am trying to steal my ex from the woman he is engaged to!I'm trying to do to her exactly what she did to me! Doesn't that put me in the same category with her, because the last thing I want is to be like her.I have always tried to take the high road. Michelle, what are your feelings concerning this, as a counselor?
Dear JamesJohn, Hello again! Before I can answer your question about whether you can speed up bringing back your intimate relationship, we need to review Step #6- Take Stock. You have come a long way and it's important to take an inventory of what's worked and what hasn't.
When you want to be intimate, what have you been doing and how has she been responding? When you answer these questions, be specific and action-oriented. As with everything else, you have to approach getting things back on track like a trial and error process. Sometimes loving patience works best. Other times, patience only prolongs the situation. You need to tell me more about what happens when you sit back and wait versus times you've approach things differently. Don't limit your thoughts strictly to the question of intimacy. Think more broadly about how you have approached her on other matters and her typical response. This will help you figure out what you need to do next. I worked with one couple where patience helped to piece the marriage together but intimacy was still a problem. It remained a problem until the man finally got impatient and frustated. His wife became more tuned into his needs.
But I'm not suggesting you flip a switch just yet. Think it through. Counseling might be a good suggestion, but only with a pro-marriage, solution-oriented therapist who understands the process of change and is committed to marriages.
Again, I still would need to know how you've been handling this situation thus far.
Great ideas about reading suggestions. I like that! I also like that you are applying the SBT techniques to other relationships. And by the way, becoming a better parenting team is not a second-rate way to improve a marriage. I often work with couples to improve their parenting teamwork with the hidden agenda of improving their marriage. It often works like a charm. Keep doing it!
You're doing great! *********** Brenda, You say you wrote your goals but nothing is happening. Why not share your goals here and let's take a look at them together. I wonder if they aren't too lofty at the moment given his MLC. Let us know what you've written for goals based on what you read. Okay? ****************************** DB713,
I'm delighted that the book is giving you hope. That's great. And from the sound of things, you should be hopeful. It appears that your husband is doing many in his shoes do after a while, they realize the grass isn't greener on the other side. Hooray.
Look, I can understand why you feel conflicted and I wouldn't suggest that you continue pursuing your ex for an extended period of time or if he were married. He's not. You're right. You have a small window of opportunity to see if you can reignite his interest. Be his friend, go out for lunch. Let him take the lead in everything that happens. IF he expresses interest in pursuing the relationship YOU MUST TAKE THINGS SLOWLY OR HE WILL GET COLD FEET. Be interested but not doting. Also, resist the temptation to comment negatively about the OW, even if he says something negative. You will get him to be defensive of her, which is really defensive of him and his actions. So, not matter how much you dislike her, don't stoop that low. Take the high road, just like you said. Pay close attention to what you are doing and saying that brings him closer (Step #4) and make a note of things that work.
Finally, remember that 10-15% of divorced couples remarry each other. It's not over yet. Michele
Goal 1 - I would like h to contact me more often just to see how I am and not just out of necessity.
Goal 2 - I would like h to begin acting as if we still might have a future together.
Goal 3 - I'd like h to open up communication about us - our future - where he is at, etc.
Goal 4 - I'd like to spend more time with him even if it were just as friends for now.
Goal 5 - I would like h to not see ow again.
Too lofty? I have backed off for 3 months waiting for him to "find himself". He is the type to not make the first move. He never shows any emotion. If he thinks I want a divorce he would agree to it even if he didn't. Not because he is willing to please me but he is not a fighter. He holds his emotions in and never confronts them. Will never admit he is wrong or hurt or upset. Where do I go from here?
Thanks for response Michelle. I do realize that remarriage odds are low,as you have quoted the statistics, but I want to be in that minority. I want to also know that I did not leave one stone unturned. I wrote you a long time ago with the question of when is it time to give up, and you responded that it is an individual thing. Something in me keeps telling me not to give up yet, and I have to go with my instinct. I just can't let impatience and lack of impulse control take over. This is my time to put into practice all I have learned from you and others. So, here we go>>>> My immediate goal is to keep our communication lines open and to go from casual light conversations to making emotional connections during our talks. I do know to get to that point will take some time, and has to be broken into small steps, which I will list. Please refine this and make corrections as you see fit. Tomorrow is our lunch date, which means we will spend approx 1 1/2 hrs together. My plan: Meet him with smile and friendly greeting Mirror his posture Keep conversation light and cheerful, kind of like when on first date. No arguing whatso ever! Listen, listen, listen to what he says and watch for clues that will be of help to me Watch his facial expressions and body language for signs of discomfort or boredom, and change subject immediately Try to ask some open ended questions so there will be some actual conversation, rather than just yes and no answers., especially on subjects of his liking, such as golf, football, his work. Compliment him on his appearnace. Be the first one to end the lunch date, and thank him for the nice time. And of course, act as if, everything in my life is fine.!
How will I know if things are progressing: We will have pleasant time-there will be laughter and joking around he will suggest another lunch date We will talk about another subject besides children Facial expressions and body language will provide clues that he is comfortable in my presence. Possible quick hug goodby
Am I on track here with the techniquesas described in the book? Setting the goals is more difficult than I thought. I found myself being way to general, and have to learn how to make them more specific. However, I wanted to start with just one goal, but I do realize there are others that I must work on also.
