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#794106 - 09/03/06 02:54 PM More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans!
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
From KentS..........

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How do you act as if you are moving on and still work on your marriage???
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You don't!

Moving forward is different to me than moving on. Did your H say he wanted to work on the M?

If not, You are probably entering the pre-rebuilding phase where the WAS has calmed down and is questioning their choices. You are probably a bit more calm (centered) yourself as well.

In this phase you need to focus on remaining calm and experiment with different ways of dealing with H, especially when his resentment flares up.

You act as-if by showing that you are going to be happy regardless of his choices. You show strength by finding some new activities/friends that are aside from H. You start going out some alone. You act as-if you still want the M to work by your actions not your words.

If i'm off-base on where you are at, say so.

If and when your H says he wants to work on the M, alot changes.

Kent
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#794107 - 09/03/06 03:02 PM Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn]
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
From KAW

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Hi Julie,
You just need to give it some time. The changes you have made are working to bring you closer together ... continue to do more of it.

Its hard not to get sucked into their rollercoaster ride, but in order to keep up a good PMA, remind yourself, "No thanks, I don't want to ride today."

Keep in mind what Michelle's says about about this stage of their crisis, "Believe in none of what they say and only in half of what they do." The half to believe in is the positive things they do, because these manage to surface from their core-self despite of their focus on running away from the negatives things in their life. Repeat this to yourself each time he says something negative. Reaffirm your PMA by reminding yourself that YOU believe that you will get through this and for the better. Act "as-if" your PMA can overtake whatever negativity he throws your way. This basically is what detachment is about. A simple way of stating it is that it is a battle of wills ... not allowing his attitudes to affect yours.

If you find you cannot shrug it off, then its time to physically detach. Seek some physical space in order to prevent his drama to affect your PMA. By keeping a consistant PMA in his presence, you are demostrating that you can no longer be the source fueling all his negativity.

'til later,
KAW
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#794108 - 09/04/06 01:41 AM Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn]
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
From birdonawire

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Here I am again preaching the message of patience and working on yourself again.

Something that I noted in a recent post kind of bothered me about your sitch:
Quote:

I know I can win as long as I can convince him that we have a chance if we both participate. I know that's not Michele's stand but it would help if he participated a little. That's my biggest challenge.




This is STILL not about winning. If you win and you are alone with your kids, what have you won??? Yes, it is a challenge for you. This is not a game to be won or lost. It is a relationship to be renewed, reclaimed, and rejuvenated. DR is not a set of tactics, tricks, and strategies to lure and win your spouse back into the same old marriage. You have to ask yourself - do I want everything to be the same as it was? - or can H and I build something better? Think of DR as a diet - a new diet for your M. For any diet to work, it takes lifestyle changes on a large scale - and they have to stick. Dedication, hard work, goals that take you step by step to the new you - these principles apply just as much to DR as they do to a new diet. There is the immediate and the long term to think about.

There is no magic bullet. There are no magic fixes.

You appear to be a bright and caring person. You want this to work. I can understand that, we all do. What may be missing from what you are doing now is focus. Is your focus on you and your kids, or on H and "winning" him back? What have you done lately to make changes that fit you and make you feel better about yourself? Your happiness in life cannot come from others or your relationships. Happiness must come from within and radiate outward onto the people and things that YOU love. Obviously your relationships are a part of your happiness, but they cannot become the only source. There must be a base level to start your love engine.

I hope this doesn't seem too harsh, but I see you trying hard, but spinning your wheels. You want a magic rapture to occur and make everything all better. Make the magic happen inside of you first, then spread it to others - one person at a time.

Patience.

Greg - Patient, vigilant, hopeful
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#794109 - 09/06/06 05:35 PM Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn]
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
From DB Coach ChuckF!

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Hey, Allenja;

I did not read your other thread - have you read DB or DR? If not, pick up DR and start reading. It is both instructional and encouraging.

One thing that is really important is to begin setting goals for yourself. The book goes into detail, but the goals must be positively stated - what you will be doing differently, rather than what you will stop doing. The goals must be action-oriented - what actions will you be taking that will be different, healthier, more attractive? The goals must also be short-term, something that you can complete in the next week or two.

Focusing on your goals will help take your mind off of the OG. The key is to pursue authentic personal growth - that is your best shot at attracting W back.

I wish you well, friend,

CF
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#794110 - 09/06/06 06:28 PM Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn]
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
From farfromhome

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I was pretty close to the brink, well about a week away from it and got to the stage we we had been to court three times, had only talked 4 times in 4 months and hadnt seen each other for 14 months. We are now back together and working through things.

In the end you cannot stop the Divorce if that is what she really wants. I just said this is your you want it I wont stop it but Im not going to help in anyway. We then got bogged down in property settlement issues (that was the 3 court appearances). Through this time I treated the property side as any business arrangement, I wasnt going to give wife stuff in the hope she would come back (this never works by the way). I went completely dark and tried to get a life back. In my case I had completely given up on my marriage which in the end was the thing that made her want to give things antoher go - she realised the finality of it all.

In the end dont freak out, this isnt a good look for you in her eyes. All I can suggest is to concentrate on yourself and detach. I know it is hard it was the hardest thing that I ever had to do. You also have to accept that this is not a 'trick' to get your wife back but is you generally looking at getting on with your life.

My wife and I have talked a lot about what was going on in our minds through the seperation. I was positve through this period that she had written us off, she was not thinking about me and was out having a good time. In fact she was continually thinking about us and working through issues in her mind. Dont believe what they say to you, it is soooo different from what is going on in their minds.

My wife said something to me that was a bit of an eye opener. I did get the ILYBNILWY talk, the trust talk, the change talk ,etc that seem to be a very common thread through most stories on the board. She told me that even through she was saying these things she knew inside that she still loved me, missed me and what we had. She was angry so she would deliberately do things to push my buttons to make me get mad thus reinforcing in her mind that she had made the right decision to walk away. One big word of advice - Never get into an arguement with the WAS about what they have done, never try to change their mind - You will NEVER win - this is something that they have to go through themselves (well in my experience anyway)

I dont think there is any right thing that makes things 'work'. But from what I have seen is the process of detachment, looking after yourself and doing things to make your life good. This does get the WAS thinking and it certainly did in my sitch. In the end for us she made the contact to stop the court case and asked to give it another go and I am very happy that she did.

Andrew
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#794111 - 09/06/06 06:52 PM Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn]
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
From hacker

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Read the Success Stories if you need inspiration. Be patient. This will take time...

Every situation is different. Even if all the success stories were about R's that came together after a D, there is no guarantee. The same goes for if they were all about R's coming together before D.

This is not about odds. This is about the amount of effort you put into it. Have hope, faith, trust and be ready to do the absolute impossible for her.

Don't focus on the end result right now. It's way too soon and will discourage you. Focus on accomplishing small goals. Focus on the baby steps. Focus on the Butterfly Effect. This is not going to happen overnight and may not even happen before the Big D. Unfortunately, the reality is that it may not happen at all and you have to be ready for that too.

That's why the first thing to do is to shift the focus to you and making yourself better. Once you do that, she will see the changes. That's when you'll start seeing the butterfly effect take hold. Where it will lead is unknown but you'll never know until you start applying the principles correctly.

I know you're DB'ing to save your marriage but you can't do that until you take a good look at yourself and change the things that can be improved. DB'ing is not about fooling your spouse into thinking that you changed. It's about really changing your behavior. You can't do that until you focus on you.

If you keep focusing on her and the end results rather than you and the small achievable goals just ahead, then it's not really DB'ing is it?

I know it's hard but that's the way it works. I know in my case, my attitude shifted when all this started. I went from wanting to "keep my wife" (as if she was a possession) to wanting "to be with my wife" (as a walk through life together).

That was a big shift in the perception of my marriage. It was no longer about a "need". It was about a "want". Once that happened, I was able to detach more and concentrate on what I needed to do, not what I wanted to happen. The needs and wants shifted from my marriage to myself.

At first, I needed to save my marriage and wanted to change. Now I want to save my marriage so I need to change.

Hang in there. I know it's rough and sometimes seems hopeless. It's not. But you gotta stick to the plan.
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#794112 - 09/06/06 06:56 PM Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn]
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
And another from hacker

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When deciding what to do always remember your goals. Will it help achieve your immediate goals? Will it bring her closer or push her away farther? What does this action communicate? Which ways in the past have you handled conflict and been successful in reaching a solution?

Also remember in the book that Michele said that "timing is everything." Was it really necessary to tell her that you won't sign the divorce papers yesterday? That's in a month and a half. You know she's not in a good mood right now and this doesn't improve things.

Also be careful of "loving" seeing her in distress about your actions. People have ways of communicating their thoughts without saying anything. If she picks up on the fact that you love the fact that your actions are "killing her", it will only add to the mountain to climb. Besides, is it really killing her? Or is it justifying her anger towards you?

At this point, I really strongly suggest you hook up on the phone with a DB coach to plan out a strategy. It's well worth the investment.

Right now, I get the feeling that you're jumping the gun a bit too quickly on things and reacting to her. You really need to step back from the sitch for a while and figure out what you're going to do. YOU HAVE TIME TO IMPROVE THINGS!!!! Don't rush it. Remember rule no. 1: PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE.

Hang in there but really try to focus on your immediate baby goals, not the big picture.

Forgot to add: Don't worry about OM right now. If you approach him after she told you she ended the affair that will completely blow up in your face. LET GO!!!! DETACH YOURSELF!!!! You have got to focus on you right now and let her be alone. Stop chasing because the more you chase, the less she'll want to be with you.
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#794113 - 09/06/06 07:03 PM Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn]
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
And MORE from hacker!!

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You don't go dark just for the sake of going dark. You go dark when everything else has failed and there is no hope left. I don't think you are at that point. You just need to focus more on apply DB'ing techniques.

Call her back but keep the conversation light. Avoid R talk at all costs since it seems to cause friction at this point. If she is calling, she is reaching out. Don't ignore her. Just be patient, kind, understanding and lighthearted on the phone with her.

I thought about going dark after I got my D papers but when I called Dottie, she asked me "what for? So she filed! Are you having more pleasant conversations? Are you getting along?" I said yes, seems that way. So she asked "why stop?"

If you can keep the conversations going and focus on her being your friend right now, that's good. Forget the overall goal and stick to baby goals. My wife tried to make me laugh on the phone today: baby goal. She was cold as ice when I saw her later in the day. So I forget that she was a snowman and take credit in having achieve a goal. At first, I thought she was just being like ice to show her SIL (her brother's wife) that she is "strong" but, then again, I'm assuming and that serves no purpose. So I ignore it and forget it.

Don't go dark because it's the catch phrase of the week. Go dark with a purpose. At this point, I'm not quite sure what the purpose would be...

If you do call her, don't start the conversation with "what's this bullsh** you want to talk about?"
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#794114 - 09/06/06 08:05 PM Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn]
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
From thesane1, in response to "Why Are We Doing This?"

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I definatly used to have this worry however I dont now and I will tell you why.

The minute i started the "AS IF " Stuff H changed towards me
He was not afraid to be around me as he now knew I was no longer going to beg, plead, cry, maon or what ever else I was doing.

Any way then I get these thoughts, what if he thinks im happy and hes happy im getting on with it.

Now I realise that this is what DBing is all about. YES-I want H back desperatly, but I only want him back if he wants to come back, whats the point otherwise, he will just come back and problems will continue, he needs to want to come back.

All the time we LBS are miserable, moaning, clinging, they will not want to come back, If they never come back we know its because they never wanted to and we have tried all we could and hopfully in the process of doing all the "AS IF" stuff we have got ourselves a life and can get on with it.

One thing for sure is doing all this will definatly change the dynamics of the R, whether they come back or not.

We have to truly let go for them to see their issues, untill we are able to do that they can not see things clearly. If we persue beg plead are vindictive or anything else like that they are to busy focussing on all that to focus on other stuff.

Maybe for a while it does please them that we are happy, maybe it helps their guilt, maybe they are happy we are getting by without them, but untill all that happens they are not going to see the nice people we are, they will just see someone who clearly wants to make their life hard, whilst TOP is standing by and being lovley because they still have their mask on.

This is hard to explain lol

This is just my humble opion, I think the only way to get back to their heart is through this way.

Sue
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#794115 - 09/06/06 11:59 PM Re: More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans! [Re: Jamesjohn]
Jamesjohn Offline
Moderator

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 8334
Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest
More from thesane1, re "Is this a Baby Step?"

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This is why I think goal setting is such a good idea.

When I first started to DB, I read the bit a out Goal
setting and I thought... hmmm skip that bit.

Then I came on here and Jamesjohn grabbed me on my goals
and I thought gawd I will have to do this ( Thanks JJ )

So I set my first goal, was just a small goal, but it was something that told me I was heading in right direction, it seemed stupid at the time.

2 weeks later it was reached, I thought hmmm fluke, I know pessamist aint I ?

So I set some more, within a month these goals were reached.
Now the point is if you are on a journey and you have your map and you keep hitting towns which are on the map, well you know you are going the right way, if you dont see those towns then u turn around go back and start again.

When I kept reaching my goals, I could no longer keep beleiving this was a fluke, I had to start beleiving I was half way through my journey.

When I got to this point it was a little easier to continue, it got a little harder, but Hey!! I had my map

so if you both feel you are getting Baby steps, set some goals, just small things that would tell you you are on right track, then work out Action oriented things you can do to get those things to happen. It Works!!!

Sue
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