That was what my boss once said to me during a performance review. But it applies to my marriage, and probably yours too.
My Story – Version I
We had an ideal relationship. Sure, we had our trials and tribulations, but we were always able to support each other and were masters of compromize. We were affectionate and compassionate to each other. We were often complimented and even looked up to by other people.
When W became pregnant, a mutual decision was made that W would stay at home and raise the family while I would be the breadwinner. W expressed her gratitude that I made enough money so that we had this choice.
Our social life was limited by finances and time. We spent time together biking, walking, stuff like that. The best things in life are free, aren’t they? W was at home with the kids, and made a few friends at playgroups. We’d also spend time visiting them.
W burned out. I supported her as best I could. No. You’re not a bad mother. No. You’re not going crazy. You gotta take care of yourself first. I know this is all stressful but it will pass. It’ll all work out in the end.
When it started to become evident that our fourth child had language problems, W hit the pavement to find help for him. Over several years, his language problem blossomed into PDD (pervasive development disorder) and W was still looking for help. PDD was starting to look more like autism.
Through thick and thin, we stood back to back against the world. People marveled at our patience. God wouldn’t have chosen us to raise an handicapped child if we couldn’t handle it, and we were doing a marvelous job.
I changed jobs, and the money got better. This relieved some of our financial worries, but the new job was very taxing, and my energy level plummeted. I was less and less available to help W at home, but she was past her burnout now, and was handling things nicely. We still saved our resources for time together, and when d#1 was old enough to baby-sit, we started doing breakfasts every Sunday morning, followed by a walk through the local market.
We were a team. We were one of the strongest couples around. Everyone said so.
Then the nature of my work changed such that I was required to do considerable travelling. I was home most weekends, but I missed my family and missed having an active role in day-to-day decisions. I was even on the road when the decision was made to evaluate our son in a psychiatric hospital. At the same time, W adapted well to all of this.
Now it was my turn to fall into depression. The stress of travel and long hours ( e.g.: 15 hour days for 2 weeks straight) were too much for me. But W wouldn’t support me. She said that she had matured to the point where she didn’t “need” me. She had her own friends, and I should find my own friends. Husband and Wife don’t have to spend “all of their time together” She also said that I had prevented her from being herself. I had prevented her from having friends. She wouldn’t let me “do that to her again.” I would have to deal with my depression. She couldn't deal with my problem and our son's at the same time.
She withdrew, and I pursued. When it became evident that this didn’t work, I started doing 180’s all over the place. The roller coaster ride was started.
My Story – Version II
We had a great relationship to start. Sure, we had our trials and tribulations, but we were always able to support each other. We were affectionate and compassionate to each other. We were often complimented and even looked up to by other people.
When I became pregnant, a mutual decision was made that I would stay at home and raise the family while Andy would be the breadwinner. I was grateful, and still am that he makes enough money so that we had this choice.
But he’s always been controlling. We couldn’t go out with friends because we always had to do what he wanted, and he was too cheap to do anything. But, we made the best by doing things like biking and walking. I couldn’t keep any friends because he always wanted an exclusive relationship with me.
He always spent a lot of time at work while I was stuck at home. When he got home, he would just flop on the couch, and didn’t do anything to help. I went through a burnout, and he did nothing to help me. He just considered it my problem, and I had to deal with it on my own.
When it started to become evident that our fourth child had language problems, I hit the pavement to find help for him. Over several years, his language problem blossomed into PDD (pervasive development disorder) and I was still looking for help. PDD was starting to look more like autism.
It was my job to find help for him while juggling the household chores and the other kids. I never got any appreciation for my patience and stamina – not even from Andy.
Andy changed jobs, and the money got better. This relieved some of our financial worries, but the new job was very taxing. He worked a lot of overtime and did even less around the house. When d#1 was old enough to baby-sit, we started doing breakfasts every Sunday morning, followed by a walk through the local market. At least I was getting some relief.
Then Andy started travelling abroad. I was left on my own to make all of the family decisions. I adapted to this, and discovered that I don’t need him. I started my own activities and made new friends.
Andy still expected me to bend my life around him. But I had grown. He has always tried to control my life. I won’t let him do it to me any more.
Then he fell into depression. He made it sound like his depression is more important than mine was. He wanted to involve himself in every aspect of my life. He didn’t want to change anything when I wanted changes but now that I’ve found new friends and activities that make me happy, he expects me to change my whole life for him. I won’t let him do that to me any more!
So, then he says he’s changing. Sure! We’ll see.
Sooooooooooo…..
Which version is the truth?
Neither and both, of course.
My mission is to bring them together.
I started posting my story in newcomers on Andy's Story which describes my struggles to break out of the rut by becoming the husband that’s described in Version I.
Here is the quote from my thread Menopause and MLC that you requested I repost here. It seems that we are all going through similar thought processes and exploring similar ideas. It must be in the air.
I fully understand that judging progress will be difficult. Both my wife and I are both posturing somewhat at this point. I used the word “indifference” in my earlier post because that seems to be the dominant behavior of the moment. She is doing everything in her power to act “indifferent” to the relationship or to how any of this will affect the people around her. I am trying my best to act “indifferent” to all of her actions.
Who knows? Perhaps our goals are similar. Perhaps her indifference is to gain attention which she feels she is lacking in the marriage. Perhaps my indifference is to gain attention which I hope will direct her focus back to the marriage. All the while all of this “indifference” is occurring, I am certain that she is just as knotted up inside as I am—just unable or unwilling to display it at this point. But this seems to be a necessary stage in healing.
My natural instinct is to place all the blame for what is happening on her. And God knows, she has no problem placing copious amounts of blame on me. But sometimes we have to look beyond our natural instincts. They say that one thing that separates a man from an animal is the fact that man has the logical capability to overcome his instincts.
I keep reminding myself that nothing is one-sided. I have read so many stories on this board where the attitude of the writer seems to be that their own point of view is the right one and their spouses point of view is the wrong one. Many on this board are quick to point out the selfishness of their spouses without recognizing their own selfishness. What a double standard. I question if the terms “right and wrong” even apply to the issues we discuss here. And, anyway, what’s the satisfaction of being “right” if it doesn’t serve to salvage the relationship?
It seems more appropriate to view things as “positive” or “negative.” And, in addition view them through the filter of the results they accomplish to bring us closer to our goal of reconciling our relationships. Positive behavior yields positive results. Negative behavior yields negative results. It seems that the trick is being able to choose a point of view that will best help us to our goal and then stick with it until we succeed or fail. Hopefully, if we can put aside all of our instinctual distractions we will succeed.
I could be you and you could be me in your story, except that my time was to establish self-employment.
Are your sure your W and my W haven't been talking? My W uses the same words almost exaclty. Maybe they have the same Cliff notes, or are using MLC for Dummies.
I do agree that often we can't see the trees for the forest, that is, we can't see our own contribution to the situation clearly. I think this is because of something Dr. J Dobson pointed out (Focus on the Family)- marriages often fail for lack of respect of one partner for the other.
This lack of respect turns communication off. Neither partner can clearly state their needs, nor can either partner hear clearly the needs of the other. Eventually, both will complain that the other takes them for granted. Behaviours that were once accepted become annoying. Excuses for withdrawing from the other become more easy to find. Emotional needs left unmet push both to look elsewhere.
In my case it was being at work and play enough to avoid conflict. In my wifes case it was being at work enough to avoid conflict.
For now, I will listen to her view of what I need to do to be "better". I choose to believe now that although she may be confused as to what "better" is, it is right for me not to be "right", to not win the arguments. For if I win the argument "battles", I may loose the reconciliation "war".
Yet, I know as well as everyone else that occaisional re-assurance would be nice. The learning I still have to do is to not take for granted the little things: touchs, kind words, smiles, hints at life together in the furture. One of the important lessons during this troubling time is that I can't ever consider these "small" shows of affection as things to be expected by a husband, that a husband deserves affection just by being a husband. I have come to realize that shows of love and affection by my W must be considers as gifts from an equal, voluntarily giving of herself because of the respect and trust we show each other.
My intuition is that our marriage is still touch and go during this phase and that the goal for us in this reconcililation phase is to re-establish respect for each other as equals.
Hi Andy - came to check out your new thread. I like how you've got the two stories illustrated. And it certainly sounds like you've got your head around what happened and what needs to happen..although I know that changes often and is not an easy or short (!) road.
Laurin...something you said stuck out to me:
I think this is because of something Dr. J Dobson pointed out (Focus on the Family)- marriages often fail for lack of respect of one partner for the other.
This lack of respect turns communication off. Neither partner can clearly state their needs, nor can either partner hear clearly the needs of the other. Eventually, both will complain that the other takes them for granted. Behaviours that were once accepted become annoying. Excuses for withdrawing from the other become more easy to find. Emotional needs left unmet push both to look elsewhere.
Respect is something that my husband has mentioned repeatedly..doesn't and hasn't felt that I've shown him respect.
I'm trying to do this now, but am finding it increasingly more difficult as he seems to be pulling away more and more. He seems to be angry with me or maybe irritated is a better word.
I think the lack of respect thing is a prime example of perception problems. I’ve always respected my W immensely. So. Why was her perception so different?
Somehow, I wasn’t able to convey that respect in a way that she could understand.
FS,
I think you’ve hit upon another aspect of the problem. Once a person has a certain perception, it’s cast in stone. And, as I’ve said before, you can’t blast it away. You can only chip away at it with a teaspoon.
The perceptions that I outlined in my 1st post were pretty much the way things stood 1 ˝ years ago (at least, I think they were). Things have changed a lot since then. But again, that’s only my perception! There were times when I really thought we’d left the past behind us only to find out that we hadn’t.
Yesterday, we had a minor disagreement. We easily worked it out, but I saw a flash of anger in her face when I disagreed with her. It was only a flash but it just showed that deep down inside, she felt that I didn’t respect her opinion. She couldn’t help but revert to the old perception.
FS, it sounds to me like your H is stuck in the same mindset. If his reactions have changed from anger to irritation, then I think you’re on the right track.
Of course, all of this is only my perception of the situation.
I agree with the perception thing. The problem was that W didn't perceive my actions the way i intended. Actually there is no wonder. Being in the throws of alcoholism it is hard to show love, respect, passion etc ... when one is looking out for themselves. It wasn't that I didn't love her it was that I loved filling me first. This was very hard on her. It is odd though with the abscence of the liquer she is saying things like, wow its about time, why didn't you do that before, how come you love me now. Not sure how to respond I just told her the truth. I always did love you, i just loved the liquer demon more. I was out of control. I am glad things seem to be looking up andy. The even slower thing scares me because im sure that lies in the future. GULP!
ANS I have to agree with you, perception is everything. One of the actions I am trying to learn to to is to not react to her lack of respect for my opinions. When I disagree with her view of a situation, she seems to perceive it as a challenge to her person and almost immediately implies or I infer that I am not listening, or am stupid or [insert word of the moment] for not aqreeing with her.
If I react, I know the problem will compound. At this time, things are tenuous enough that I am not sure if she is implying or am I infering disrespect. It could be as simple as she is defensive at the moment. So, until I am sure of the real reason for her actions or reactions, I must be silent. Hard to do sometimes.
For example, will walking to work with her, I asked her if she was feeling OK (she has been sick). She answered somthing to the effect that I can walk with her as long as I don't ask stupid questions. I replied that I didnt' think that was a stupid question. Later I wondered to her that if she didn't want to have a conversation, that's OK, but maybe she could say that instead of criticing me to shut me up.
If this short conversation was held 3 mos. ago, I know I would have reacted to her implied [infered] disrespect angrily, and harse words would have escalated rapidly until we were both angry.
This is the working on me part: to know who I am and accept myself. To accept criticism, deserved or not, quietly. To try and listen to why one would criticize me or my actions, to find out if there is something I can do to improve me. And to remember that criticism can be a sign of love.
Do you criticize total strangers? Get angry with someone you've never interacted with? Not usually.
I don’t know how many times I’ve posted that all I’m trying to do is to behave like the person I thought I was. I guess all I’m trying to say is that I’ve always thought of myself as a great person, and a great H. But, my W’s perception was different. So, I had to find different ways to behave that would project this to my W. These had to be tailored to her.
quote:Originally posted by darmar: she is saying things like, wow its about time, why didn't you do that before, how come you love me now.
Anyway, I think you handled things well. Sometimes the truth works. What a concept, eh?
And don’t sweat the “even slower” thing. The reason I feel I have to go slower is that W is starting to come around, and I don’t want to spook her. That’s a good thing. I don’t want to look like I’m posturing (which I’m not).
Which brings me back to greenbar’s post.
I think that posturing is one of the greatest impediments to our perception. Our spouses and we try to influence each other’s behavior by taking an opposing stance. We sometimes go to an extreme so that our SO will take a more moderate stance, thus making the compromize closer to what we want. We dicker! What a way to have a relationship!
Another thing we do is to “take the high road.” By doing this, we are flaunting our superiority over them. Boy, if that doesn’t bring a couple close together, what will?
Laurin,
I think you’ve really hit on something. In order to change perceptions, we have to stop the behavior that perpetuates the unwanted perception. The rationale behind our behavior – no matter how well intentioned – is irrelevant. Our S doesn’t see the rationale. They only see the behavior.
Listening and accepting criticism instead of defending yourself breaks the pattern. After a time, the old behavior will be forgotten.
I also agree that we tend not to afford the same minimum standard of courtesy to our spouses that we would a stranger. Pretty stupid, eh?
I recently posted another chapter in my struggles on my thread (Menopause and MLC) concerning the influence exerted on my wife by her “well-meaning” friends.
I know that if I expressed my true feelings concerning the situation that only an argument would come of it. Therefore, I’m put into the position of having to practice what I have preached in some of my posts on this thread.
Like Laurin, I am trying to develop the ability to not over-react to the things my wife says and does.
quote: Originally posted by ANS: This is the working on me part: to know who I am and accept myself. To accept criticism, deserved or not, quietly. To try and listen to why one would criticize me or my actions, to find out if there is something I can do to improve me. And to remember that criticism can be a sign of love.
I am taking this statement to heart and looking at the situation from a different perspective—that the proper reaction to her action can only serve to strengthen either our relationship, my personal growth, or both.
quote: The rationale behind our behavior – no matter how well intentioned – is irrelevant. Our S doesn’t see the rationale. They only see the behavior.
Inside, I may be as upset as a wet hen over this but my feelings and my behavior are two different and separate things. My behavior must be measured and unemotional over this issue or it will impede my goal of saving my marriage. Kind of like keeping a poker face when you’re either bluffing or holding a royal flush.
quote: Listening and accepting criticism instead of defending yourself breaks the pattern. After a time, the old behavior will be forgotten.
Hopefully, ANS, you are right. All logic and common sense says you are. I remember, however, that during my wife’s MLC and menopause, logic and common sense are far on the back burner. But I am opting to shoot for results in the long run and praying that eventually more rational thinking will prevail.
Still here, following and keeping tabs on you Andy ( )
Just wanted to bring up an issue I have faced a few times in the past few weeks with H....He'll say something in a tone of voice that I don't like, sometimes he talks to me like I don't have a brain in my head....well, it used to set me off and I'd get my button pushed. Not so anymore, not for a really long time now. I know he notices the change, and is starting to really 'get it' that it's a permanent change, but I find myself upset that while I've changed how I react to him, he has not really changed how he acts/reacts to me....when I ask him not to do that anymore he acts as if he has no clue what I'm talking about. He assumes that I'm gonna fly off the handle like I always do (did) so he goes for it. I can see and feel the changes in me, but still don't notice any really big, significant changes in him.
It's not that I want him to be a different person...but there are still things about him that I'm not too fond of. I guess it's actually my perception (like how I tossed that one in here??!!) of him, isn't it.
)