Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.

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#63686 - 03/31/02 06:39 PM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
Kansha Member Registered: 04/25/00 Posts: 1292 Loc: LA,CA	quote: Originally posted by MJR: 1. There is a fine line between being a 'nice' person, and not setting boundaries. I try to be nice and I do care about him, which I think is how I have fallen so easily into doing some things he should have done for himself. It's hard for me to know WHEN I should set a boundary, and when I do try, he gets angry and interprets my actions as 'mean', and lets me know that clearly. I'm still real fuzzy here. Melanie Melanie: Whenever we make a change it causes other people to react. Your H doesn't want you to change so he gets angry and says you are mean. You have to brave through it. It is difficult but you can do it. Eventually your H will realize that even if he says you are mean and gets angry he won't be able to manipulate you to stay the "old mjr" and he will stop. quote: Originally posted by MJR: 2. You mentioned you struggled w/ boundarys, so when you did set them, you sometimes went into bitch mode. This has happened to me, in emotionally charged exchanges between us, but I realized this was not productive, and continued to try to learn to set boundarys, but to do it out of love, and kindly. There was a change in how I went about it, and I truly desired him to know it was out of love, and that I was not being mean, but he didn't see things that way. I was kind in how I told him no, and refused to be drawn into an argument. Still didn't get the love across. I really feel that I failed here. Melanie The above answer to number one and the one I answered yesterday applies to number 2. Again: You did not fail. Your H has some serious issues that is HIS problem. Congratulations on not getting drawn into an argument. quote: Originally posted by MJR: Here is one classic example - which happened the day that I left him. (We are separated now). For several months some of the problems (w/ his son's mother and financial) had been weighing heavily on him, and he turned to heavy drinking and abuse of prescription pain killers to relieve the pain. During this time, he became increasingly verbally abusive towards me, and passive aggressive in some of his behaviors. On this particular day, he had come home after drinking since 10 pm the night before - at 7:15 in the morning. He staggered in and mumbled for me to set the clock for 9:30 so he could go pick up his 4 year old son for his time with him. I pretended not to hear, since he garbled his words and was in the other room. He came to where I was and directly told me he wanted me to set the clock for him so he could go get his son. I felt my doing so would be enabling him and endanger both him and his son's welfare, so out of love, and kindly and calmly, I told him that I was sorry, but I wouldn't be able to do that for him, that I couldn't help him drive in that condition to get his son, but if he chose to do so on his own, that was his business. He blew up and went to lie down. The end result of this exchange was that he didn't wake up to get his son and missed his visitation time that day...when he returned home later in the evening he became violent with me, and I left fearing for my safety. I have not returned. But - that is a whole different subject.Melanie Melanie: You did the right thing! He is not a child. He is responsible for his relationship with his child. Not you! Yes you feel bad that he missed his visitation but you cannot continually facillitate that. Again: YOU did absolutely the right thing. It doesn't always feel good for us "overdoers" to set these boundaries. Keep doing it and it will get easier and it will feel good eventually. Problem most of us figured out was that the more we did the less our H's/W's did. The more responsible we were the less responsible they were. It takes a lot to change this "dance" I think you are doing great. Just keep setting those boundaries in a clear friendly tone and don't back down. (self-doubt can undermine this) A year and a half later I hardly ever find myself jumping to catch that football AND I don't feel bad about it at all. Hugs to you and I'm glad you got out of your situation. If he is violent that is one reason in my book to separate and even D. Trust yourself Mel, believe in yourself. I think one of the things that keeps us from setting boundaries is that our self-esteem needs to be stronger. I also listened to people(on the radio) who are very clear about their boundaries (Dr Laura Schlessinger for one) Even if I don't agree with everything she says she is a master at boundaries and doing it without going into "bitch" mode. And actually my H is very good about saying no and not feeling guilty so I took a few lessons from him as well. quote: Originally posted by MJR: On the boundary thing - I think it is very important that we do so in love - and that we convey that love in a way the other person could understand. In retrospect, I wonder if it wouldn't have been more kind of me to tell him directly that I was going to be making some changes in how I handle things, and not do for him things that he should / could do for himself, and start taking responsibility only for myself - leaving his issues as his responsibility. Maybe then he wouldn't have EXPECTED me to do this for him. (I often wake him as he has an unusual schedule, but he doesn't normally want to drive w/ his son in that condition). Do you see anything that I could have done to more effectively convey my love, while still maintaining the boundary? Another thought I had was that I could have told him that I would try to wake him if I could, provided he let me drive, but that this would be the last time I would do so when he was drunk and needed to get his son. Melanie Your H is not a child. He probably won't hear you anyway. You are second guessing yourself sweetie. Your H manipulates you because he knows you will feel guilty. In the case of not waking him up because he was drunk that is different then deciding to not set the alarm for him on a daily basis. If you wanted to stop doing that you could then say: I need to just start taking responsibiltiy for myself. So could you please set your own alarm from now on. He'll probably get angry but he will get use to it if you just don't set it after that. You can and should be courteous but less is best. I would explain myself very very little. quote: Originally posted by MJR: I think there is a very fine line there. Two people can be interdependent in a healthy way (I think)...and there is nothing wrong with helping each other out. And it would be a very sad world if we didn't do things to help other people or show simple gestures of kindness, like holding the door at the store open for the stranger behind us, or offering our partner a refill on their coffee etc...Melanie I agree with you but you are not in a healthy relationship so it doesn't work that way. Sad but true. Please feel free to e-mail me anytime at martelis@hotmail.com [ March 31, 2002, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Kansha ]
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#63687 - 04/01/02 12:48 AM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
Kansha Member Registered: 04/25/00 Posts: 1292 Loc: LA,CA
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#63688 - 04/16/02 07:29 PM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
Jamesjohn Moderator Registered: 11/21/00 Posts: 8334 Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest	I've been seeing a lot of talk lately about boundaries, thought I'd bump this up again! _________________________ JJ Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
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#63689 - 04/16/02 11:26 PM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
Kansha Member Registered: 04/25/00 Posts: 1292 Loc: LA,CA	Jamesjohn: good idea! Thanks! Hugs to you and yours. Hmmmm? I wonder if Melanie got to read the latest?
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#63690 - 04/17/02 03:29 AM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
Iwondertooo Member Registered: 04/08/02 Posts: 2001 Loc: US	This is a helpful thread. I am trying to undersatand how boundaries apply to my story posted here http://66.111.66.234/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=002115 In particular my husband has told me that I will have to move when his OW arrives with her visa from her remote foreign land. Pretty rude, how do I deal with that. And he is sending her money, $1200 a month I believe. He can afford this, does not know I know, do I do anything with that? What about our living together situation, we are actually very civil and nice, how do boundaries apply there? If anyone has suggestions I will check my thread and this one too. Thank you all so much, you are lifesavers. Wonder
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#63691 - 04/17/02 10:22 PM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
gd1 Member Registered: 08/19/01 Posts: 2736 Loc: Silverthorne, Co. USA	Kansha, JamesJohn, and others I always enjoy reading what you have to say! Pushing this up for others to see. gd
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#63692 - 05/02/02 06:55 PM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
Kansha Member Registered: 04/25/00 Posts: 1292 Loc: LA,CA	bumpinup
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#63693 - 05/03/02 11:43 AM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
Kansha Member Registered: 04/25/00 Posts: 1292 Loc: LA,CA	^up^up^up^
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#63694 - 05/03/02 11:46 PM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
Sparky Member Registered: 03/23/02 Posts: 1158	RE: Enabling/Rescuing. My therapist said something really helpful about this. She said that it's enabling if I try to figure out how to help others before I know what it is I really want. It's not a problem that I consider others, just that I often put their needs before mine. So I was talking about how reasons why I was living out of the house, and they all had to do with my husband. My therapist asked what it is I wanted, and she asked me to make my decision as if there was no husband. WHAT DO I WANT?! Well, I want to live in my apartment. It's that simple. Yes, I do have a good situation right now. Yes, I could stay here and would be willing to compromise if asked. These are truths. But the important thing is that I find out what I really want FIRST. I've been doing it backwards. I do think that for many of us, we feel like we need to befriend our spouses again. That we have to be the nice guy, or we will risk losing our marriage. But the biggest 180 for many of us is to stop taking care of everything. Stop anticipating others' needs before we know what we want. I think it's a much more powerful message than the same old I'll-help-you routine many of us have been in for years. When you rescue people, they don't learn to make do for themselves. And in the long run, they may resent you for this. Or they may come to expect a certain level of care from people. It makes them less of who they are. And that's not good. In some ways, shaking things up is a good thing.
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#63695 - 05/09/02 04:45 PM Re: Boundary setting; Good discussion on setting boundaries.
Jamesjohn Moderator Registered: 11/21/00 Posts: 8334 Loc: The GREAT Pacific Northwest	Great post, Sparky!! _________________________ JJ Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
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