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Joined: Jul 2002
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Hey Jim -

Just catching up, I took a break from the board for about 3 weeks to take step back and evaluate where i was w/ my sit... I agree this board is great theraphy but i may have been overanalyzing and thinking.. so took a breather.

Catching up on your thread, lots of advice in past few weeks... read it all and absorbing... not much advice for you myself, but just thought I'd say hi and that i haven't forgotten my friends on the board... i'll check back...

until i have better advice... keep it positive and take care of yourself.

Mike

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Hey walkaway, I missed you [Wink]

Again, thanks for your insightful post.

Last night was our first substantive discussion in weeks. The content of which I posted above. Tonight, I got home and barely said hello and she asked how I would feel if she moved back to Holland with the kids and I could have them in the summer. Well, I lost my appetite for dinner real quick. This is insanity...she would uproot 3 kids, bring them to a place where they don't speak the language (the Dutch don't learn English until they're about 12), then be a single Mom. I realized quickly it is only talk and she said as much later. I told her she could't be serious and she replied she at least wanted to go to Holland in the fall for 10 days or so. Fine by me, I could use the break. Also, I can't let it worry me too much because I am pretty certain one parent can't bring 3 children (who are US citizens) out of the country w/o consent from the other parent.

Anyways, as I mentioned our vacation last week was great, we got along fine, and I actually got a hug when she left early on Thursday with my oldest D. I was almost taken aback, but it felt real nice.

I'll think about applying a little humor at this point (couldn't hurt). Acknowledging love? Wouldn't that violate my LRT. I haven't uttered 'ILY' for quite a while although I definitely still 'love her enough'. Tough call...she probably knows how I feel...but maybe it would be very appropriate to remind her now [Confused]

Mike...welcome back! Hope your mind is reenergized.

Getting tired. Laundry to fold (still doing my part [Wink] ). W was in bed by 9:00.

I'll touch bases tomorrow!

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Jim, thanks for stopping by my thread with the encouragement.

It seems like your wife is definitely fence sitting. I'm thinking that you may still be trying to get too much of your positive attitude from the reactions your wife has, which may be still putting some pressure on her.

just my humble opinion of course, but if you make it clear that you will be a happy person with or without her (not that you don't have the preference that it be with her), it may intrigue her, and remind her that life doesn't always have to be exactly the same.

mj

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MJ,

Thanks for visiting. You're totally right. I fall into the trap of strongly (not angrily mind you) reacting to things my W says. The latest is her 'thinking' what it would be like to move back to Holland with the kids. I've heard from a number of folks not to worry too much about it, she's really just doing exactly that, 'thinking'. I need to get better at acknowledging what she says, don't object, and just LISTEN!! I should be comforted by the fact I highly doubt she could even if she truly wanted to, but it does give me a sick feeling when I think about. She brought it up again tonight and I smartly backed away from responding (luckily the kids were a distraction).

Tonight we ordered airline tickets for her to go to Holland on her own in the fall (she hasn't been home in over 3 years). She plans to rendevous with old friends and family. She says she'll definitely miss the kids. I, with a smile, said you probably won't miss me, and she said shook her head no (that she wouldn't). At one point that would have bothered me. At this point I don't let it.

I also spoke to my aunt tonight who met my W for dinner a couple weeks back. My aunt shared with my W her experiences with my uncle, how they've had tough times, managed to work it out, and now their marriage is better than ever (to some extent due to the &^%# they've been through together). She said she really didn't think my W was going anywhere, she just needs to figure things out. I just need to be there for her, and be PATIENT (I've heard that somewhere before [Wink] ).

Well, I've babbled as usual.

Thanks again!

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hi jimfromB
As a H of a WAW myself (6-month Sep, OM)I found a very good idea getting some real-WAW's opinions. I have been reading them with interest, and there is something I would like to discuss concernig LRT. awalkawaywife says that LRT did not work for her but she acknowledges that she is willing to return. In my opinion she would like to work on her M and therefore she is not longer a typical WAW. Thus this brings back the question. do you really think that the LRT has not worked at all? or is that the LRT has worked and her husband has not realized yet?
What do you think of that?

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LRT is not only for the WAS but also for the one left behind. Usually, its the one left that is doing the LRT and its really about getting yourself centered and figuring out what YOU want. Thats the major reason I dislike the word alien/WAS. Those folks need to center themselves too [Wink] Its all perspective. AWW may feel she was already left, which brought on the need to do LRT; shes recentered and realized hey, I want to back. (??) Assuming a lot here Awalkaway [Smile]

Jim- your wife is seeking guidance (ie- the dinner w/your aunt) I went thru something very similar, where I would go to people tell them how I felt, listened to what they had to say. Why? Because I didn't trust myself in decision making. Why? Because most major decisions in the M came from H only. So, this thing w/the bike trailer...does it ring a bell? Include W with decisions (even the little things) [Wink] "Hey W, I'd like to do (insert idea), do you have any thoughts on (the idea)?"

Only thoughts coming out of my head this morning [Smile]

have a great weekend!
Laurie

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hi guys,

actually, i don't think i would have walked away if my husband had agreed to stop drinking. or maybe i would have for awhile, just to see if he really stopped. but he said he wouldn't consider stopping at all. he felt "that isn't what the problem is."

so, in that regard, his giving me "space" is really just more of the same. he was absent during the marriage and absent now as well. a 180 for him would be to be attentive and caring and loving and respectful.

there isn't anything he is doing that makes me want to come back. being separated from him has made me forget some of the dismissive, disrespectful things he has done. being separated has let me regain some of my individuality. both have made me more willing to consider reconciliation -- but i am having a hard time accepting that drinking is more important to him than me, and i would like to see evidence that we can be friends and have fun before jumping back into the hard work it would take to mend things.

but, back to you guys! i think the best thing the husband of a WAS can do is be a best friend. listen, listen, listen. accept, accept, accept. don't try to be right. don't argue that she's wrong. listen to her anger, her complaints, don't defend. just simply be there. Be fun, tell her you care for her, but go on with your life and not have expectations of her to be with you.

despite the fact that we walked away and we are the "bad guys" (and you now feel justified and validated by society for your anger) -- we have a LOT OF ANGER. so listen to us and validate us. don't think you are more "right" because you didn't walk away. you walked away the prior 2 years or more!

sorry, i was venting [Big Grin]

i think the LRT probably does work, but it says "don't pursue" assuming you were pursuing. if you weren't, the LRT would have to be some other behaviour. i think if my husband invited me to a museum or to a new bookstore or to go on a hike -- i would jump at it. something i wanted to do, and i know he was doing it for me.

(but we've got more baggage than that, i've got ea/pa, so it isn't that simple.)

anyhow, i'm not sure i am adding anything other than hijacking a thread!

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JC, I believe my LRT has helped (that and her going on the anti-depressant). The LRT made me (for the most part) focus on myself and accept the very real possibility that my W and I will not be together. The approach I had be before was pursuant, and that was DEFINITELY not working.

However, my wife has shown enough 'coming out' that I think I am close to reengaging a little bit. walkaway...I spoke with my aunt last night. She is not a DBer but amazingly said the same things you've been recommending about giving my W the opportunity to talk, where I JUST LISTEN (like an I'view) and acknowledge, validate, etc. Right now I am just waiting for that moment.

Laurie, I appreciate your comments about my W's decision making. Generally I was the accomodator. But in the areas that I am responsible for (finances in particular), I've have tried to get my W involved but she loses interest. I should probably try a bit harder and perhaps this will help her self-confidence there. She is just now getting comfortable with the computer/going on-line (with my help/guidance) after being so intimidated with it before. It's the little things right! Thanks for the advice!

Finally, I'd like to add I regret if I have made my wife out to be the bad guy. To some extent it's venting. Perhaps also it's a self-righteous attitude that my goal is the right thing, for my kids, for me AND for my W. She just doesn't get it right now [Wink] .I assure you I've acknowledged where I've &%$#-ed up and am determined to change (for her)!!

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awalkaway

you mention an interesting aspect of the question: anger. I ackowledge that I have my responsability in getting to this point. I know now how deeply mi wife (XW) was hurt. But I wasn´t aware of that before. But I have left my home because she asked me to do it, accepted a legal sep. I am trying to do my best in giving her space (it is not very easy when you see OM in the picture). I am suffering a lot too. So why is she still angry with me?
By the way I don´t consider you the bad guy here.
Nice weekend for all of you
Jose

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Hi all,

Hey I like the new look!! Didn't know that were redesigning the site.

Anyways, W and I have opened up a dialogue after 6 or so weeks of my LRT. The difference know is I am trying to take the advice of several folks (including you walkaway, thanks) and really listen to her. It is a little difficult when she says 'it is over' and talks about moving to Holland with the kids. The change transpired starting on Friday. I told her that I really wanted her to talk to me and I promised to listen. Saturday AM she asked me what I want. I told her what I want has not changed, for us to be together as a family. I didn't say that I do NOT want things to be exactly as they were, the bar is higher now. But hopefully I'll get the opportunity to clarify that at some point. She then said it's over, accept it, so what do I want?! I said, yes I accept it, and assuming that's the case, I want significant access to the kids, I'd prefer to stay here at the house w the kids (with or w/o her living here also) but would be open to selling and dividing our assets. I would not 'allow' her to leave to Holland with the kids unless I had no legal right to stop her. She said "FINALLY I got that out of you". I also said that I have reached a point emotionally that although I want to reconcile, I would be OK without her. I managed to stay very calm, let her finish her thoughts, do not say 'yeah but....', make eye contact, etc. We're getting along pretty well now and even watched a DVD together last night. Nothing said today. I asked her before I 'retired to my space' if she had anything she wanted to talk about and she said no.

Apparently she sees my detached behavior (aka LRT) as rather unmanly, that I am sitting back timidly waiting for whatever happens (the wimp thing again). I see it much differently. I told her I detached for me, not her, to emotionally cleanse myself, and if at the same time it gave her space w/o me in her face all the better. I had tried the clingy, pursuant approach before and it was not working (in fact was really alienating her). I don't see it as unmanly at all. On the contrary, I believe it would have been unmanly to have given up months ago. I am a 'wimp'...please! I was indeed a wimp taking a lot of her BS for 11.5 years. But right now I feel good about myself, my attitude about salvaging my M, and my future whether it includes her or not.

So there you go....if I'm in her face it's no good, if I detach it's no good either. That said, I am still skeptical about what she says. She'll say things implying the end of the M, then later say something implying the exact opposite. She still has this romantic notion about moving on and meeting someone else. Oh yeah, she finally said that OM indeed fizzled out, and she doesn't really think about him anymore I still think she's confused and hasn't truly made up her mind. Or am I in major denial

Well, she goes to Holland in October for 10 days by herself so we've agreed to take no action until she does that. She thinks she'll find some answers.

Welcome back everyone to the start of a new week. Dotto, hope you had a nice time at the Cape! Walkaway, you've been quiet?

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