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#54803 - 08/18/02 03:23 PM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
JimFromBoston Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 939
Loc: Boston Area
Back from the Cape.

W and I spent most of the week peacefully. 1 disagreement, but I dissipated it quickly by apologizing (I was a jerk, what can I say). We were both cooperative and agreeable. Did lots of stuff w/kids and had a nice time. Her temperament was much more even since she started on Zoloft. Things don't seem to upset/annoy her so easily. Complained a little about the bikes/bike trailer being a hassle but I did not try to defend my decision to bring them.

That said, I can't figure my W out. What gives? She said almost nothing about a D all week. She has taken no action whatsoever. The 'packet' from the D mediator sits on the counter. I am sticking to my LRT religiously lately but I am so curious what she is thinking.

walkaway, anyone...any thoughts?

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#54804 - 08/18/02 09:41 PM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
JimFromBoston Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 939
Loc: Boston Area
Also note a couple comments she made during our vacation.

"I never said you were not a great guy".

"It's scary that I may meet someone who is worse than you"....(not meant to mean I am really bad [Wink] ).

What can I glean from that [Confused]

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#54805 - 08/19/02 10:43 AM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
JimFromBoston Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 939
Loc: Boston Area
shameless bump

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#54806 - 08/20/02 12:11 AM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
dotto Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2376
Loc: Massachusetts
Hi Jim,

Glad your week was uneventful more or less. Mine was okay. I really think they say things sometimes just to get a rise out of us. Like Mick's Do's and Don't say don't focus on what they say they are going to do and don't take things personally.

I will be checking in tomorrow. I hope you can look at my thread and give me comments on my situation.

Keep up the good work. Stay strong.

Dotto

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#54807 - 08/20/02 11:35 AM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
JimFromBoston Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 939
Loc: Boston Area
dotto,

Thanks for your response.

My W uttered the D word for the first time in a while this morning. She was out with friends (all female) last night, all talking about their problems. My W said she told them she was "looking for a D". I (dumbly) asked if that is truly what she's looking for. She responded "probably, that or a physical separation" (she has declared us to be 'emotionally separated', which I quess is true). I feel like I violated my LRT, but I couldn't help myself. It drives me crazy wondering what the hell she's thinking and how she is leaning. I also know I shouldn't put too much significance on what she says. Actions speak louder than words and the D mediation 'packet' still sits on the counter. My dilemma is how long do I wait for her to seriously talk about what her plans are? We've been getting along very well lately but we talk only about the kids, school, etc. She does not talk about any impending change. I don't know whether to start 'thinking' about new relationships or not. Any advice?

I looked at your thread. I commend you for you patience. It sounds like it's been pretty painful. I can relate.

One thing I just don't get...Why do our Ss claim to want a D then want to spend their vacations with us? I don't get it. Wanting a D implies you are unhappy being with your S so I would assume they'd NOT want to spend their time with us.

I am glad you are focusing on yourself. I'm slowly getting there. My kid are my salvation. I make plans around them, and if my W chooses to join in, she is welcome. But at what point do we close the door on our Ss? I can't wait around indefinitely for my W to see that our M is worth saving. Not knowing how my life will be even a month from now drives me crazy.

Keep posting here! Thanks again! [Smile]

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#54808 - 08/20/02 05:47 PM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
dotto Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2376
Loc: Massachusetts
Hi Jim,

Trust me I am not patient. Like you I am confused and so frustrated. Why spend time together if they want a D. My H said this may be a mistake and he'll come back if it is and hope I'll be available. He said he thinks about us all the time. Why if he's so unhappy and he wants a D. He's talking about coming to the Cape all of the fall to golf with a group of friends if I don't mind. He's even asked about next year. Why would he want to be around me? Like you I wonder what to do next. I only wish I had found this when things first started. He had already decided on D when I started following Michelle's advice. We have been ES for four months. It's so hard. We can go for days and not talk. I told him yesterday I missed him. He said to call whenever I wanted to say hi. Now I have to be strong again and not call. I broke the DB rules because I talked about OR. Now I start again and I'm going to be his best friend again and make him fall in love with me again. I believe that the feelings are there just buried under anger.

Hopefully C will help. We have our next meeting on Tuesday of next week. I'm back to the Cape tomorrw until Sunday. Probably won't post after tonight until Sunday or Monday.

Keep your chin up. You're lucky you have your kids. I get very lonely. Hope I can help. Watch for baby steps.

We need to stick together and give each other encouragement. I'll check in later tonight. Hope to hear from you.

Dotto

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#54809 - 08/20/02 06:27 PM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
JimFromBoston Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 939
Loc: Boston Area
dotto,

Thanks for responding again. [Smile]

I'd like to share a little more info on my R with you.

W and I had C together for 5 weeks when this all started. At that point we were feeling pretty good about each other. Subsequently she had a 'relapse'. Then she began getting C on her own with the same therapist. I considered seeing another one but figured out that what I wanted (and didn't want) was quite simple. I discovered DR, then this web-site and this has become my therapy. It's a place I can vent, not do any damage, share my experience and hear about others who generally share the same goal.

I've been on my LRT for a couple months now. Despite it's basic premise that it's about you, not your S, I still find it difficult not to ask my W what's going on in her head. I really want a clear signal on the direction she's going so that I can move on with my life, with or w/o her.

She will imply that she's determined to get a D, be extremely cold, say really cruel things,(although she's been MUCH more pleasant since starting on Zoloft), and then want to spend a good part of a week at the Cape with me. [Confused]

My W also said some months back that part of her hesitation was the fear she was making a mistake. Her EA fizzled out, so she lost her 'easy exit'. I don't know if she's confused/indecisive, or is just planning her exit strategy. She also talks (occassionally) in the future tense about the kids school, the house, etc., as if nothing was going to change. Lately we've been relatively comfortable around each other. We generally don't talk about our R, just little 'snippets' here and there which I try not to respond to.

But again, none of that should matter. I am doing the LRT for me and the kids. I need to keep reminding myself of that.

Well, I've rambled on enough. Thanks for reading and caring.

You keep your chin up too [Wink] I'll check in later also! Hope to hear back from you before you return to the Cape. If not, have a nice weekend [Smile]

By the way...she STILL has not mentioned the anniv. card [Confused]

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#54810 - 08/20/02 09:29 PM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
dotto Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2376
Loc: Massachusetts
Hi Jim,

I understand what you mean about the LRT. I too have been doing it for about 6 or 7 weeks now. I am committed but I don't think I've done it 100%. I too want to know what my H is feeling. He wants us to be friends. He sends so many mixed messages. Like I said on my stich, when I get angry and say what I truly feel he is nicer to me. Usually the next day. I know he thinks about what I have said after the fact. I'm still having a hard time dealing with the fact that he will not give us another chance. He says my changes are too little too late. I don't believe it's ever too late. However, when we talked yesterday I understood so many things. I didn't respect my H. I never knew it until he gave me examples and I really listened to him. I know that with all the research I have done and all the books we could have a great relationship. I truly believe that if he did not have EA he would give us another chance. But if he didn't have EA I probably would not have made changes as much as I have.

I know I have made the changes to save the R but I am also glad I made them for me. I have lost 60 lbs and everyone says I look much younger than my 48 years. H says he's so proud of me for making the changes.

My H says he's been unhappy for many years. Perhaps he has and I'm sure things were tough off and on, especially the last 3 years as I was mourning my beloved nephew. But he had a responsibility to OR to tell me. He claims he did and I didn't listen. It's probably true but what is bothering him was my mourning. Do you think he can change his mind again as quickly as he did this time? His friend says yes.

Like your W he also says cruel things and then talks like nothing is different. I really think he needs to be away from me and the house. He needs to miss me and even though I spent most of my time down the Cape since May ( I quit my full time job in February with his encouragement)we were still together enough for him to not really miss me. He loves this house and in the proposed settlement he'll buy me out of this house and I'll get the Cape house. I'm having a hard time living with him but I don't think I can live without him. But he's still talking about spending the weekends on the fall there and also has asked about next spring, could he come down. It's so confusing.

Why did he let me quit my job if he was so unhappy that he was going to ask for a D? Maybe he has been thinking of this for a long time and I've been niave. But if he wants out so bad why didn't he leave? He can afford to get a place of his own if he wants to. Yes it would cut into the $$ that are saved but if it's so bad why stay?

This is a second marriage for both of us. We both gave up everything the first tiem and I guess we don't want to start from scratch again.

I sometimes feel so confused. I know this is a place where I can be totally honest an people understand.

I have also rambled. Sorry. But it's nice to have friends. I'm off to the Cape again. We seem to leave our troubles at the bridge. he'll be there tomorrow night then leave on Thursday and come to his life that he's building without me. I swear he only cares about the people he works with. I get so threatened. He'll be back on Sunday and then home for the week next week. that's always a challenge. We have C on Tuesday night. I'm not sure I like this guy but I have to give him a chance. He has Michelle's book on his bookshelf. I mentioned I was doing some DB techniques and have seen movement and he said to keep doin it. He saiys this is a process. I just don't know how we will proceed. I'll see.

I'll check back later tonight . I hope to hear from you. Keep in touch. Thanks for your support.

Dotto

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#54811 - 08/21/02 12:39 AM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
JimFromBoston Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 939
Loc: Boston Area
Dotto,

It's late and I don't imagine you'll see this tonight. If not, I hope you come here on your return from the Cape.

To say that I have been 100% consistent with my LRT would be dishonest. Tonight my W asked what situation would I be happy with (meaning 'when' we D). I took the bait (couldn't help it...damn!). I said I stay in our house (she is free to stay, I can't make her leave, it's big enough, we have our separate space) OR we sell and divide our assets.

As far as custody goes I will agree to no less than shared physical custody of the kids. She said she was thinking about a number possibilities, including bringing the kids to live with her in Holland (she is a Dutch citizen, the kids were all born here). I said I would not agree to that and am pretty sure she couldn't take them out of the country w/o my consent. She is not seriously considering this but it's a little disconserting when she mentions the possibility. She is adamant that she should have sole physical custody. This really gets me. All along she says she needs freedom to do 'her thing' but then says she is 'the primary care-giver' and it is best for the kids to have just one home. Won't sole custody mean less time than she has now to pursue the freedom she craves? I don't get it. She says I am being stubborn, that I'm not really considering what is best for the kids, only what I want. It seems to me it's the pot calling the kettle black. She is the one who wants out of this R, rather than work on it, irregardless of the harm it does to the kids. Is it right that I can feel guilty just wanting to be with them? I am torn between what truly is best for the kids, one home, with limited access to their Papa (I have always been VERY involved with them) OR two homes and 50/50 access to us both. I see nothing in your thread about kids of your own but what are your thoughts? Perhaps I will start a new thread to get input from folks on custody issues. Be limited to visitation/every other weekend with my kids would devastate me. I love my W, but I would be OK w/o her. I would be so unhappy w/o significant access to my kids (giving them baths, doing homework, putting them to bed, etc.).

Luckily, we both maintained our composure and it didn't get nasty. We're both committed not to let that happen. But I really made it clear that when it comes to the kids I draw the line.

I know I probably shouldn't get too riled up by what she says. She's obviously doing a lot of thinking. That D mediation 'packet' still sits on the counter. If she is so determined why hasn't she done anything? More venting.....I suppose that's enough.

Have a nice time at your cottage. Try your best to be pleasant and cheerful when you are home again with your H. DOn't let him push your buttons. I hope our Ss eventually realize what they could be giving up. We both probably still have a long road ahead. For me it's the support I get here, from friends/family, and most of all the love of my kids, the keeps me going.

Regards!

Jim

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#54812 - 08/21/02 07:58 PM Re: Any former WAWs out there?
awalkawaywife Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 167
hey mr. jim!

i haven't posted because i don't have anything insightful to say [Smile] .

it does seem that you guys are both willing to argue over a "theoretical divorce and custody" scenario. maybe as a way to avoid the very pregnant question of "what are we doing now?"

the packet sits there because she isn't sure she wants to divorce. it is that simple. she vacations with you because she is testing the waters of "is it safe to return." it is that simple.

this is hardly scientific, but my thoughts are that you have disengaged enough that you can afford to extend some love and attention towards her in a humorous manner.

for instance, when she asked about your preferred living arrangements when you divorce, i think it might have been disarming to say "well i love you to pieces, but if we divorced i want to stay in house or else sell and divide assets."

and if she said that you are being stubborn, i think you might relieve some tension by saying "of course i am! i love these guys to death, i didn't have them to be absent in their life. i might be losing you, but i don't want to lose them."

somehow, sort of acknowledging your love and care AND acknowledging that you hear her desire for divorce in the same sentence (without whining or OR) seems to deflate some of the intensity.

it permits her to hear that you are accepting of what she says in a non-angry way. that you aren't being retaliatory, that you've accepted the facts. it gives her permission to do the same.

i know parents sometimes displace their anger with each other by arguing over some 3rd item. that's what this reminds me of. that's why i think you need to be light-hearted and consistent in your message of love and care; because somehow it is really about do you love her enough.

once again, more my intuition than actual experience. you get what you pay for [Big Grin]

what else is happening right now between you two?

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