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Joslin,

Several years ago I was incredibly unhappy with my M, myself (low self-esteem, for reasons unclear then, but are obvious now). However, I eventually decided that I could not hope for my W to change, that I either accept her as she was or get out. Because of the kids, and I loved her (still do) I looked at how I could tolerate her behavior and how I could be the man she kept demanding I be. I thought it was working until last February (when our crisis began). As I've written, this was a major cause of the state of my M.

She acknowledges she also has responsibility for our M, but in her mind it fell apart not because her behavior was bad, but because we just don't work as a couple. She isn't prepared to admit that her behavior would be damaging to ANY R. I've acknowledged that certain traits of mine would be pretty undesirable to virtually anyone. But I am willing to change, for her, and if not her, then for my next R.

One thing I have learned that it is okay to pick your battles, but make sure you stand up for things you truly feel are important. I think if I had my W and I would be happy (and together) today.

Thanks for responding [Smile]

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Sorry, I need to bump this up because I need some advice.

My W has contacted a divorce mediator. We got sticker shock when we saw how much this would cost us. The bigger issue is custody and what we'd do with the house, our assets, etc. I hope this will make her pause and think about how incredibly disruptive this is, but I fear she is completely convinced that this is her "destiny". I asked last her last night if our M, the kids, basically our life together, is only a phase in her life, that she feels it's gotten old and it's time to do something else. She said 'yes'. Wow! [Eek!]

I have been in a LRT for the past 6 weeks but have violated many of it's rules (I just can't help it sometimes).

Here is where I need some advice:

Her best friend (also a therapist but not schooled in relationships) is the only person she confides in at this point. She doesn't talk to her parents about our sitch because they have been very unbiased and objective. I am thinking of calling her friend (who I am also friendly with) and asking her if she would be willing to look at this web-site and see if it resonates with her. If so, then to please tell my wife that there IS another alternative to a D.

Is this a good idea?

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quote:
The interesting thing there is that my W has said (once to our therapist), that I am as good as a husband & father can be, except she just doesn't feel the right kind of love for me anymore. I haven't a clue as how to rekindle that.

Jim - we sound so similar. My W has told me herself that I am a great father and husband and that she just isn't "in" love with me anymore. And like you have no idea how to rekindle that love. If she were angry at me I could work with that but she isn't and we get along great.

quote:
She has also said that the reason she wanted out is because she has always been dependent on someone (her parents, then me), and missed out on some life experiences. She wants more freedom. She says that getting married so young (she was 21, I was 29) was a mistake and having 3 kids was too much for her. She wants something significant in her life other than family.
Again very similar my W was 19 when we married and I was 25. I am pretty sure she is trying out the grass on the other side of the fence. And she too has said things like "I don't want to answer to anyone". A pity since we have 2 kids (9 and 3). I know she is after a sense of herself and independence. But when or even will it end?

We are going to dinner tonight before she leaves town again, she lives 7 hours away now, and I need suggestions on how to make it a fun, warm, desirable experience for her.


I took the road less traveled.....now where the heck am I?
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Roland,

I would just try to enjoy dinner. Try to appear optimistic and upbeat. DON'T bring up reconciliation, etc. unless she initiates it, and then don't appear too anxious. Good luck!

Anyone else have any advice on my earlier question?

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Hi everyone,
I'm still rather new to this (found site and have been posting for a week). I'm finding comfort in reading all of your posts and think it's a potentially wonderful asset to have someone like "awalkawaywife" share some input; especially to H's who are trying to cope with a WAW. I'm so sorry for all of your sitch's, and can't believe that, up until now in my life, I never even had thoughts about what people all over, and who are no different than me, are going through and have been going through in their lives while I was just going about my own.
If any of you have the energy or time, please read my thread "WHAT'S HAPPENING!" and let me know if you have any insight. I'd appreciate it greatly and plan to NEVER leave this site, whether sitch gets better or not. I can not believe how many people are out there hurting and confused.
Good luck to, and God Bless, all of you.

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quote:
I am thinking of calling her friend (who I am also friendly with) and asking her if she would be willing to look at this web-site and see if it resonates with her. If so, then to please tell my wife that there IS another alternative to D
in my own experience Jim, I was extremely hurt when H involved friends and my parents-- it felt like the "whole world" was ganging up on me and not an unbiased listener in the lot. So, is it a good idea? Based on my experience, I wouldn't recommend it.

Laurie

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LJNC,

Thanks for the input. You may be right, This definitely could be walking into a minefield. But is it possible to tell the friend I am only trying to do everything I can to save my marriage, mostly for the kids, and only want an opportunity to TRY to salvage it? I only want her to see what DBing is all about, objectively draw her own conclusion, then share this with my W if she wants to. If she feels uncomfortable with this, then that is fine.

This is very sensitive and probably somewhat manipulative. But maybe it's the right kind of maniplulation.

Any else have two cents?

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quote:
But maybe it's the right kind of maniplulation.
no, manipulation is doing something that benefits yourself and is basically an attempt at control. consider where your W is and recognize that what you do/say has consequences.

you are about to talk to HER only outlet.

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HI Jim,

Tough call> How close are you and this friend? Can she keep your friendship and W's friendship seperate? that is the big question. W and i have mutual friends, and during our first Seperation, i confided in those friends, big mistake. Now i dont talk about my M with them, if they bring it up i tell them something short like Just typical M problems, but i dont go any deeper than that. It will get back to your W, and could create more problems. So again the biggest question is, can this friend keep your frienship seperate? Hope i helped you out. [Wink]

Derek

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Sorry to but in, but an above post concerns me a little. Maybe it's all in individual perspective, but I believe that almost everything we do, in relationships, in business, and in life in general when we want to effect changes in others (whether for the benefit of everyone involved or for selfish gain) is a form of manipulation. Manipulation isn't necessarily bad.

Manipulation falls into two categories: benign (acts in which the relationship may be helped) and harmful (capricious, selfish, me-motivated, gain at the expense of others) manipulation. I believe that there's a third form--malevolent manupulation (in which we do something as "getting even" or from the just plain evil thrill of it, no matter what the outcome). Anything we do that we think might influence another is by definition manipulation.

An example of benign manipulation: Getting your S (by whatever means) to be a better partner (i.e., to regularly put out the garbage, be a better lover, etc.). No one is hurt; everyone benefits.

An example of harmful manipulation: Talking to your S's best friend to "get them on your side" or otherwise influence your S.

An example of malevolent manipulation: Beating the he// out of S's OP, just to feel better.

Good DBing is using manipulation (although it also should lean heavily, perhaps solely, on self-improvement), but at it's best, it should be benign.

Understanding whether a particular act or series of acts is benign, harmful, or malevolent--that's the real trick. This is why we are always asking, "Will what I'm about to do bring me closer to my goals or take me further rrom them?"

LJNC, I think I understand that, in your post, you meant the latter two forms of manipulation. And you are right... we should do all we can to avoid this.

I just don't want people frozen to inaction by not fully grokking real-world manipulation.

Don

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