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#36912 - 11/24/01 10:47 PM Re: How to db a alcoholic
darmar Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/01
Posts: 348
Loc: NS
Its interesting reading your post because I am him. I am an alcoholic and I wish my WAW had of really done something years ago. However I would likely not be on this MB if she had.

Micj and the others are right. It took a major rock bottom for me to do something. That was after 8 years of my spouse living in the horror. Of course she is resposible as well just like you. Being a progressive desease it will eventually destroy you and your son. The state of denial he is in does go away eventually and if he is where I was he has known for a while in his heart that he has a problem. How can one justify all the behaviours that we do as alcoholics. We can't and after being in a program AA/rational recouvery etc...we look back and are shocked.
Don't mistake his abusive behaviour as a result of the alcohol. That is false. You can't blame the booze. Booze doesn't make us abusive. We allow ourselves to learn it. Booze is a way to justify the behaviour. You have to walk/give him an ultimatum that you are prepared to folow through with/or resign yourself to a slow and painful death, and beieve me this could be literal. Don't let him blame you for it. If he sees you as an enabler he will use it against you. It will come down to what is more important to him booze which feed his illness or his family. For the sick it is a hard choice that we try to avoid making with false promises, more lies, and manipulative behaviour.
I can say one thing. He is lucky that you are still there. I wish my spouse had a little of what you got. The big thing is often it has to come from someone else. My wife tried for years. Maybe clergy, a boss, or someone he respects can talk to him as well, but ultimatley it really comes down to choices he wants to make about his life.


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#36913 - 11/24/01 11:03 PM Re: How to db a alcoholic
chrisa.com Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 717
Joyful: If I recall correctly in DR, is that one needs to have the ability to be financially independent. Need to be able to support self.

Crissy is right, you don't need to be trapped.

Nice thing about Darmar is he is out of denial and taking responsibility and facing reality just like me. So there is hope, no gauranties.

_________________________
CBA

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#36914 - 11/25/01 12:14 AM Re: How to db a alcoholic
Judie14 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 591
Joyful you were so helpful to me when you responded to my posts, I don't have any DB advice for you except I was married to an alcoholic (my kid's father) and my father was one and so I know about drinkers. ONe thing I know for sure to help YOU (you can't control him or his actions) and that is to get into a program - Al-Anon is a very good one. Also the advice that was given to you about you enabling him was also good. Trust me, I know it is hard because I have been there. I too, had a small daughter at the time and was pregnant with my son who is now 12, so I know. I had no job, no car, nothing and everything was in his name. Al-anon helped me alot. We finally divorce though because in addition to his drinking (he loved hanging out at the local bar) he liked to have a girlfriend on the side, and well the rest is history. But please check into an al-anon program near you and let me know how it goes! Judie

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#36915 - 11/25/01 08:51 AM Re: How to db a alcoholic
joyful Offline
Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 2222
Loc: Georgia
So far he has not drank but will not talk about how this is effecting us. I never try to bring it up. I did mumble something when he was correcting or disiplining our son for crying last night after son was mean to our kitten.... that maybe he needs to see what he acts like when he drinks b4 issueing orders to son on how son should act. I know I shouldn't have but I couldn't help it. I mean you watch daddy act like a fool and then are still going to respect him the same way and listen to him?

Cris....I don't have a daughter and no he did buy a car for him so I could have my car back. His original one is in garage which he was putting a transmission in and he was so drunk that he ruined it and its still sitting. So he got another car. Its just he would rag me about no job but he couldn't get a car running long enough for me to even look for a job. I went to school and graduated for computers a year ago. That is how long I haven't had a car to get to a job. He had mine after his transmission failed. I was activily looking b4 his car broke. Even at times afterwards but many want experience on the job and not just school and now its so far along from when I went to school or even worked I am scared I am done in on the computer part that I went to school for.

Thanks darmar for your story. Its so familiar. I guess in a way I tried that ultimatum but unaware he was drinking at the time. And my worse fear that he did choose the bottle over his family. He claims I should accept him for who he is. And alcohol is part of him as he puts it. That is just him he says. I always tell him what a great guy he is when he isn't drinking that to give it a month and see how he feels without the drinks and how we would interact. I feel that would give me time to get over the resentments I have against him now. My first Love was a alcoholic too. It did take when I left for him to wake up. He admited it to me and tried to fix things up even years afterward. I was torn but knew too much happened and was afraid he would slip right back into the same habits. I felt like I was a familiar face to remind him of his drinking and that he would revert back just by me being there. I never told him that. And maybe if I could find a church that will help out because inbetween all of this he states he wants to go back to church. Says he doesn't want to go h*ll. He wants to be with who he loves. He feels like he is going to die soon anyway cause he gets panic attacks and feels his health is bad. I know it doesn't make sense because why would you hurt your body worse with alcohol. I don't understand that. He says if he was that bad with alcohol he wouldn't be able to workout like he does. Which he says he works out to impress me and thinks I will want him more. I told him its whats inside that truely counts not all appearances.

Thanks Judie too for your advice. It gives me hope that I may still get a job. I will keep trying to set my goals. I had given up on most of them for a while. Figured whats the use couldn't get anywhere. But I will now. That is my next step.

Thanks to you ChrisA...Yes I know I can do this. And I think too by being independent makes you feel better about yourself and being in this situation even though at times it couldn't be helped about the car and no transportation, it makes me dependent without really wanting it that way. I have always worked since 15. Up till my last child then went to school for two years. I am updating my resumes which I am terrible at putting together. I think I will have my son *21 years old* do it for me. He is a whiz at whatever he does.

I do have 2 other boys from a previous relationship. Their father drank too. I just can't see all the signs I think before hand. But they turned out great. One is in the service, air force, and the other is in his last semester of college. Well to do. Better off then mom. But its so sad that everything around me all my life my worse enemy was alcohol. And back then it was more widely acceptable part of life. So now its hard to tell someone to stop when they grew up with it and it wasn't that bad all their life. My dad drank, mom, brother is still an alcoholic, stepdad, old bf, everyone I lived or knew had problems with alcohol and it destroyed many families around me. My sisters, my mom, dad, brother. I have only one brother that does drink but still is married. But thanksgiving I wouldn't go to family cause there is drinks there and then bf would drink and my day would be ruined. Happened for the last two years. I just can't take a chance.

You people are so wonderful. I hope you know this. Your spouses don't know what they truely are giving up on. If they knew, they would come back. They just have to open their eyes. I think their minds are stuck on the past and not looking toward the future. I think we have to convince them in some way what the future could be like and not to remind them of what we were but what we can be and will be. If it were only that easy.

_________________________
Joyful

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#36916 - 11/25/01 10:25 AM Re: How to db a alcoholic
CrissyC1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 808
Loc: New York
Dear Joyful,

Sorry about the car thing...I read wrong! So, now that u have your car back, u can start looking. You have to get free by starting to get some independence and financial security! That is a big step and will help u alot. I have heard over and over that "This is me and you should accept me and love me for who I am!" It isn't a matter of not loving him. You have to love yourself first and set boundaries as to what type of behavior and treatment you will accept for yourself and you son. It is okay to love him, but you don't have to love his destructive behavior that is hurting him, you and your son! To love him and yourself would be to set limitations.
You are enabling his drinking and treatment towards you. You are NOT responsible for it though!


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#36917 - 11/25/01 10:29 AM Re: How to db a alcoholic
CrissyC1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 808
Loc: New York
oops! I posted before I finished!

No matter what...his drinking is not a result of you or your actions. It is a result of the disease. He is in denial and you cna't fix that, nor can you fix him. Take care od fixing you and your son. It is going to be hard for u because everyone in your life had a drinking problem. You need to get counseling to help you and to make you stronger.. There is no doubt that you end up in these R's due to your family history. It is a vicious cycle that will take allot of counseling to break!

Good Luck to you and you are in my prayers!
Keep posting!


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#36918 - 11/25/01 02:36 PM Re: How to db a alcoholic
bluewunder Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 45
Joyful I too married an alcoholic we no longer live together as I asked him to leave as him being a binge drinker he would be gone for great lengths of time with no communication. My problem is we have three kids together and he makes all these promises and dosen't come thru with them. The kids always ask " why" and I don't know how to explain this to them. This weekend he was suppose to take them to a movie but he is a no show and they cannot get ahold of him ( which means he is prob drinking. The children then think well Mom you take us then well I use to do this but I find it gets hard on the pocket book. The kids are always wanting to call there Dad but he won't answer or return their calls when drinking. When husband is out of his binge he will phone alot, hangs around here etc this man will never let the kids know that he drinks denies everything. I have a beer once a month and the kids think I have the drinking problem. So good luck Joyful and sorry to unload on your thread.

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#36919 - 11/25/01 03:20 PM Re: How to db a alcoholic
joyful Offline
Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 2222
Loc: Georgia
Blue,

That's okay to unload here. Gotta say I done the same too. It probably is frustrating waiting for him. Maybe you shouldn't tell the children and if he shows up its a great surprise. Then they won't expect anything. How long have you been apart? Children will realize its dad and don't try to make excuses for dad, let dad do it. If he gets out of each one good for him. But after a while the children will see who is there for them. From my first relationship with my older boys, I never hid why I left or what problem dad had. I did this because I wanted it to stop at them. I didn't want to hide the truth like some was hidden from me. I feel this is a gene thing and runs in families. Unless your children are aware, they may not know how to notice signs if they start to have a problem drinking. I have told mine that one drink may turn into a lifelong problem. To be careful and not drink especially when you have a problem. They haven't had a real problem as of yet. I am glad he doesn't do this in front of your children. That is what is scaring me now. My 4 year old is a tattle tale that when they are in basement and bf is sneaking his drinks, son will run up and tell me if and what he is drinking. It doesn't matter I can tell by his attitude without even knowing. Sometimes.

Cris...thanks yes I need counseling. This has gone on so long that I lost who I was in the process. In fact, when I did give advice I was probably trying to escape in a way from my own problems by helping others. I have to show more focus on me. But still I do enjoy helping others. That was my field for so long...nursing. I enjoy reading your thread and advice. It is great. Hope your managing which it sounds like you are.

_________________________
Joyful

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#36920 - 11/25/01 03:29 PM Re: How to db a alcoholic
bluewunder Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 45
Joyful thanks for the reply husband and I have been seperated for approx 3 years, at times when he is not binging he likes to take me out on dates some times I go sometimes not. As for telling the kids about Dad taking them some where I don't it is the 12 and 9 year old who talk to him and he tells them he will take them to movies or pick them up and if things change he does not bother calling. When the kids complain to me I always tell them I am not responsible for your Dad's actions and you will have to take this up with him. When they do he always gives them the excuse that he is working. As for his drinking I talk to the 12 year old about it but she dosen't belive it as she ask her Dad and he says " dosen't drink" so whatever it all will come out in the wash one day . Take care Joyful

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#36921 - 11/25/01 04:33 PM Re: How to db a alcoholic
CrissyC1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 808
Loc: New York
Joyful, Bluewonder:

It is so hard to deal with an addict of any sorts!

They eventually drive you crazy...if you let them. That is most of the problem with us...we want to fix and change them...We Can't! We think that if we love them enough, they will change! They won't! As long as they are in denial, their whole life is one big lie! Them and only them can change who they are and get help! Sometimes it takes an ultimatum to open their eyes, sometimes that doesn't even work and they spend the rest of their life living in the mess that they have created. We do not have to live in their mess, we have a choice....setting boundaries is what it is all about!

Good Luck ladies! It isn't easy!

Cris


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